@@neoxus30Did Yasuho show Paisley Park to him, though? If I remember correctly, she didn't know he was a Stand User when she asked him to drive her. Surely she wouldn't just show her Stand to some guy she believes doesn't even know what Stands are, right? So Tooru couldn't have used Paisley Park's abilities to get to the Higashakata estate quicker.
@@StrawberryRhubarbBand He is a mistery and has a ton of backstory. You just have to read into it to comprehind it better. The only flack we can give Tooru is he appeardd too late into the manga.
You might be able to explain Jobin not knowing his own son's age with him just being that bad of a father if you stretch it, but there's no explanation for Tooru taking almost 2 days to drive to the estate.
I have learned something from this video: If I know I am going to be bad at keeping track of dates in my story, don't ever mention very specific time dates and stuff to avoid worsening it
I would say "Araki forgot" but this seems more like an "Araki can't make up his mind". But it is interesting how many inconsistent birthdates and ages there are when Araki has said that he uses character histories in his Manga in Theory and Practice book. With the character birthdates being at the top, you would think there would be very little inconsistencies.
Yeah, exactly. That feels like just error with way he creates characters or set up timelines, making it inefficient at best. It really feels like Araki sometimes just need character to be certain age, so he changes things as he pleases, which clashes with him establishing age of character as first thing he does.
We need a spinoff manga oneshot of "Thus Drove Tooru" that details the intense, high-stakes, undoubtedly mind-game filled 45-hour drive to the Higashikata household
Although you are obviously joking, this does raise the curiosity of how things work out with so many different time-based stands existing. In the original timeline alone we know about Star Platinum, The World, Killer Queen: Bites the Dust, King Crimson, Golden Experience Requiem: Return to Zero, and Made in Heaven. That doesn't include stand powers which we don't know about due to not being part of any of the story arcs which might belong to random stand users around the world. With all this time bending and breaking, do things manage to add up properly or would this lead to odd inconsistencies?
@@Crow_Rising ok imagine a guy was banging his girl but that was the exact same time when diavolo was spamming KC and the whole thing was skipped and the guy just sees he and his girl in bed lmao
why is tooru taking 2 days so hilarious to me i’d like to just imagine tooru *somehow* convincing yasuho that 2 days of continuous driving is how long itll take to go to higashikata estate
I think that it was a great idea that could've been used to add more tension to the end of some chapters, but the entire inconsistency of the countdown just made it pointless and unnecessary
I know it's a joke but imagine if the part 9 villain stand had the power to affect the 4th wall or something. Like araki sets up a scavenger hunt in the real world for clues on what's going to happen in the manga
can you imagine the confusion of anyone reading jojolion monthly before Tsuguri's corrected age and wondering how in the world is a 2 year old speaking fluently, being a pervert and doing 4D chess moves against Yasuho
When it comes to dates, I always take dates over time passage (i.e. I haven't stopped time since 1988 vs I haven't stopped time for 10 years) and narration over characters. For the first preference, people will round when talking about the past, saying things like 10 years when it might be 9 or 11, probably because the exact length of time doesn't matter, just the general idea. For the second one, characters have memories which may not be perfect where as narration (when not done by a character) is meant to be from a third person, more objective, perspective. That's my take on it though
Yeah part 3 is TOO 80's to be the late 80's if that makes sense. It feels more like its the heyday of the 80's like being smack dab in the middle. The 80's slowed down got refined and calmed down by the late 80's. Part 3 feels like it should take place during 84-86.
The first instance might get a pass but no chance for the second one. Characters can recall trivia and events with incredible accuracy but only for certain dates Araki had the insight to include characters misremembering them for no other reason than to confuse the reader about something mostly irrelevant. Araki just simply messed up the dates, stuff like that happens.
I'm just curious why Araki feels the need to keep writing characters' ages. There's like, literally no reason for it, and it causes confusion, but he still writes characters' ages, like, constantly. It's not even like it's a manga staple, this is a hell of his own creation.
didn't Araki put the Part 5 character's music tastes in his manga? I feel like Araki is just obsessed with random trivia and that includes his own character's random details
Araki is very detailed when creating his characters. I often feel like he's too detailed. His characters are memorable, but we really do not need to know certain things about them. As for age of character, it's only useful when you get stuff like "when [character's name] was x years old, something something" since that helps us figure out when more or less that happen. But as is, Araki is just creating more error room for himself
@@austerloowaterlitz1543 Tbf a lot of so-called fans of JoJo say crap that you think would be a joke until it turns out they said it with a legit straight face. Prime examples including Leaky-Eye Luca somehow being the baseball kid that Kakyoin mentioned after the Geb fight or the dumb misconception that Emporio recieved a Joestar birthmark when in fact he never did - you would think nobody would bring that kind of trash up in serious discussion, but somehow there are "fans" dumb enough to legitimately consider these things as serious topics. So unfortunately it's really hard to tell when someone is just joking and when someone is being monumentally stupid in this fandom. Luckily, you do seem to be in the former category.
@@mrreyes5004 I agree wholeheartedly with you. I have my fair share of arguments with Jojo fans who don't even understand stuff from the manga/anime. One thing I hate is the "It just works" or the "Araki forgot" crap. It's sad that misinformation is just spreading around the fanbase.
@@mrreyes5004 The biggest crap i've ever seen in jojo community is the somewhat popular belief that GER has reality manipulation(literally can do anything and is the most powerfull being troughout all jojo media)
Level-headed response: “Hmmm it appears Araki is bad with dates and time and this has only recently begun to affect the enjoyment of Jojo. I hope that he either avoids making dates/times vital to Jojo or improves his perception of this in the future.” Likely Jojo fan response: “WOW LOOK AT THAT ARAKI CAN’T EVEN COUNT HAHA HE FORGOT!”
Honestly thats just how it is. JoJo fans view Araki as a double edged sword. To them, he somehow remembers Kakyoins friend from Part 3 and turned him into Leaky Eye Luca, yet for whatever reason cant remember “Star Finger” Its almost like JoJo fans have just a bad as memory as they *think* Araki has
Things that illiterate people accuse Araki of forgetting: Complex abilities, ridiculous destiny-defining events, vital character motivations. What Araki _actually_ forgets: Certain dates and some birthdays.
While the dates of birth and age can be hard to keep with, especially over a long period of time, the Locacaca fruit countdown makes me think that some stuff that was supposed to happen didn't make it to the final cut. It could be just a fight against random stand user or some character moments for the side characters.
Yeah, I can see Araki getting times and days mixed up a bit. You'd think when it has a bit more relevance to the story (like the Locacaca fruit harvest timer), he'd be a bit more careful about it though.
Oh my gosh, thank you for covering this- I have been tearing my hair out over Trish’s birthday inconsistency for a while now. She would literally have been born before her parents met-. I wasn’t sure anyone else noticed this Im so glad Im not alone in this ahah. I suspect the reason they changed Diavolo’s age is to avoid making him (and presumably Donatella) teen parents.
Araki: **Genuinely remembers multi-layered Stand abilities and destiny-defining world events in his universe.** _Also Araki: _*_*Forgets some birthdays and countdowns.*_*
The updated Higashikata Family Tree having info on someone who died in the future wasn't inconsistent, the person who wrote the book just waited for that year and then went out and shot Yoshiteru Kira.
Considering that Araki became immortal when he put on the stone mask in 1889 he's probably using Kazoedoshi to calculate ages, which reconciles Koichi and Joseph's ages. IDK about Jotaro, though.
@@sandmaneyes the flashforward wasn't changed or retconned. It fits in perfectly with the story, the issue is that araki is bad at visual storytelling, so 90% of people who read the flashforward completely miss that its supposed to be two separate events
If Diavolo were 33 in part 5, Trish would have been born when he was 18, meaning she was conceived when he was 17. Maybe the extra 2 years were added to alter that detail?
@@sexb0mb Except Trish was concieved _before_ Diavolo got his Stand (meaning _BEFORE_ he could use time erase). Also, time erase doesn't actually delete time since the events in the erase still happen (the other characters just don't remember it), so everyone else still ages too, not just Diavolo. You're confusing it with The World/Star Platinum (as Jotaro and Dio _do_ age during time stop).
I could see the bit about Izumi staying 25 years old for a long time being like, you know, a "never ask a woman her age" kind of joke. But that's probably not at all the intent and it's just Araki fumbling ages again.
I think the inconsistency in diavolo’s age is because if trish was 15 and he was 33, that’d mean she was born when he was 18, and she was likely conceived when he was 17 or young 18; meaning he was a high school student. He probably didn’t want to deal with the topic of underage intercourse, even if it was only implied through age.
It really feels like Araki was rushing the finale of JoJolion, from the fact that it just sort of ends anticlimactically with very little happening to the fact that he couldn't even get the days and times correct, despite that being a major part of the ending. I don't know if he's just getting old or if he simply didn't think it through at all, but it's very bizarre.
yeah, it's like he deadass didn't know what to do and just did things along the way, the flashforward plays a huge point at this, not to mention the retcons with the rock human biology and the timers and Tooru, its feels so slopy
I really can't disagree more with the ending of Jojolion being Sloppy. Especially on my second read-through the ending fits perfectly with the themes and flow of the story. It's not a simple story of 'beat up bad man with evil power' it's a much more comlicated story about family and earth and mother/fatherhood and the nature of identity and how the concept of 'calamity' affects all of those things over time. I guess a lot of people still want and expect the story in Jojo to revolve around 'punch the bad man!' as a primary plot mover, but Araki as a storyteller has moved way, way beyond that and it shows. edit: He still can't draw animals though. That will never change.
@@unmitigateddisaster3793 so how'd you explain the flash forward? How Tooru was a MAIN VILLAIN, not a final villain or whatever it was the main villain with lame motives, no charisma or build up and, how'd you explain what is the curse? How is related to higashikatas, why and how the locacaca break the curse? I can keep going and found more and more things on why the end is sloppy. Ok JoJolion is about "breaking a curse" but it left a shit ton of answers introduced a forgettable villain and dropped a LOT of plot points, the end, no, JoJolion as a whole feels sloppy
Another example of translation error would be in start of d4c arc in steel ball run, it is stated to be 3:39 in English release of the chapter while in the Japanese release, it was 3:59. They later corrected it in volume release
My theory as to why Diavolo's birth year was changed is that the manga would imply that Diavolo was 17 when Trish was conceived, although I don't know how big of an issue this would be.
the entire end of jojolion with the flashbacks or the flashforwards needs a video either explaining it or going over inconsistencies. and there needs to be like a visual of the timeline or something as well as this stuff gets complicated
Personally the harvest countdown doesn't bother me that much, since to me the sequence of events shown on its own is more important than objective time, and for me the countdown is more to drive tension than to make a real timeline of the arc
Araki is not extremely detail oriented, he is a writer with a lot of great ideas and he doesn't mind making things inconsistent so he can implement those ideas. You could call these inconsitincies real "Araki forgot" moments but I think it's more so just Araki doing what he wants in the moment and not sweating the details. JoJo in general is a very spontaneous series because of his writing style, and that is kinda part of the charm, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I do think the overarching narrative often suffers from this though, especially part 8.
One I noticed with the Netflix sub in specific is that while not in the original Japanese, the Netflix sub has George Joestar I note himself as "George Joestar I" and not just "George Joestar", even though a while before George Joestar II was born, so he wouldn't know to call himself this. This isn't a problem with the manga or anime, but a problem in the subtitles.
Eh, that's not that big of a deal tho, since there are families that add numbers, and it would just mean George I was just first George in the family. It is inconsistent with Jonathan not having number, but maybe he just wasn't using it because he's Jonathan
@@Nick_The_Greek21 in aristocratic families you are. Hell, if you'll look at Popes, who inherited same naming scheme from same source as aristocratic families, they do use numbers even though it's the first one. And ironically only current Pope doesn't follow said naming scheme.
In all realness I cannot stand timeline inconsistencies despite being bad at chronology myself but as someone who makes actual published work I cannot grasp why there would be inconsistencies in the editing process but I don't have room to talk considering I've never written anything published and suck at math
It is weird, you'd think that by the time the volume release came out that any mistakes would have been fixed. There's potentially dozens of employees that work on on the process of getting a manga from the creation stage to being volumized, so it's so weird that they'd all miss such glaring issues.
I'm much the same, but mostly because I have an infatuation with constructing coherent timelines, comprehensive trees, detailed design documents and keeping accurate records so if I find _one_ thing that's out of order it throws my whole work into turmoil and worries me to high hell. As such, why I always double check my material with calculators of all kinds, so if there was a reason I'd pin on Araki's inconsistencies it'd be because he couldn't just log onto a timespan calculator before 2005, his assistants much the same.
@@Jordan3DS I'm not sure they missed it, rather that they're instructed not to change it, or not allowed to. I don't have any hard evidence, but from what I've gleamed observing the manga-anime adaptation process they're very particular about maintaining accuracy to the source material as much as possible, only making changes at the behest of the original holder: the only instance I can think of regarding this is Youjo Senki, where a lot of the aesthetics and designs - notably Tanya and Visha - are radically different and "de-glamourized" from the manga, itself somewhat different to the original Light Novel, all changes approved (for the manga) or ordered (for the anime) by Carlo Zen. My guess would be that they feel it isn't their [the clerks'] job to change anything dictated by the guy who actually created so they it alone; but then that makes one wonder: why don't they just approach him about it?
If it's at all possible to squeeze enough content out of the subject, maybe a look into characters' designs and how they've changed over time (e.g. Jonathan gaining the Zeppeli-style bandanna) would be worth a video. Or, y'know, something along those lines, anyway; I'm still not sure if there's enough material to do a real video on it.
I have couple of requests for videos: JoJo games retrospective with deleted content and references and something like "good and bad examples of changes from manga to anime"
Norisuke's age has also been inconsistent in Jojolion as well (I mean current Norisuke not the ancestor). His birthday, current age, and the age he was during his flashback (when he got the disease as a child) don't add up properly.
Oh God This made me remember the chaos around the last arc of Jojolion and the countdown to the harvest of the new rokakaka Everybody was like How the fuck Araki is going to make all of this fits in the countdown It ended up kinda messy and anticlimax
In general the ending just feels super anticlimactic. It's like, here's a main villain that we're just introducing right now, and he's just some guy! Here's Josuke fighting bugs for multiple chapters, now here's him doing it again! Here's Jobin randomly not mattering despite being set up for the whole story, and here's Kaato randomly appearing after being introduced one time forever ago to defeat the main villain with her stand power that's just now being revealed! Now it's over, and nothing happened and very little is resolved! 10/10 plot. Then the fanbase goes "well, part 9 will explain everything", until it comes out and it doesn't.
The fact that none of these actual inconsistencies about the timeline NEVER make it into this horrific "Araki forgot!!!!!!" compilations is really telling of how little effort or thought goes into those things.
We should keep in mind that Dio got his stand around a few months to a year or more before the events of part 3 can fully begin. So when things are referring to Dio getting his stand, that's some time before part 3.
Trish's new birthday is such a blunder for me because it's before Donatella and The Boss meet at the coast. Doesn't really make sense they would meet up more than one time to me and Donatella totally would have mentioned she had a kid the second time they hung out.
I could literally go on an entire rant about how botched that entire backstory was. And the worst part is that it actually affected the entire narrative because Abbacchio needs to go back to the specific date the picture was taken. Normally a changed birthday wouldnt be a big deal but since its relevant to the plot, much like the stuff in part 8, it really throws a wrench in it all once you realize it.
I don't mind these mistakes, I know people say JoJo takes itself very seriously but I feel it having some mistakes makes it human and I just love the lore and feel of every manga and part so I don't care if there's tiny changes or some mistakes
No see, Enya founded the pizzerias in the late 70s with William Afton. In the 80s, Diavolo was bitten by Fredbear in 1983 and got his Stand. Dio was the bite of 87 victim.
My guess is that diavolo's birth year was changes because In the original case he would have had Trish at 18 (or maybe 17 I didn't do the math), after the change it implies 20
@@tythus654 Yeah, *like* that. A one word different and an identical sentiment to what your saying. Why would he almost exactly repeat a title he had already used when he can use a new, more accurate one?
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Seeing as Araki is actually a 300+ year old, it makes sense he has issues with people's ages.
Have we considered that tooru might just be a REALLY bad driver?
Tooru didn't actually start the car, he just moved it kicking the pedals with his feet
@@atijohn8135 M-MASAKA, KANSEI DURIFTO?
You can eat shit
@@atijohn8135 it's the flintstones car
@@QueeenCrimson Tooru, meet the Tooru, he's the master of ca-lam-i-tyyyyy
Tooru taking almost two whole days driving to the Higashikata Estate seems oddly in-character for him
The man is a complete mystery all around)
Imagine your co-pilot having Paisley Park and you still take almost two days driving)
@@neoxus30 he's not a mystery he just had no character development lol
@@neoxus30Did Yasuho show Paisley Park to him, though? If I remember correctly, she didn't know he was a Stand User when she asked him to drive her. Surely she wouldn't just show her Stand to some guy she believes doesn't even know what Stands are, right? So Tooru couldn't have used Paisley Park's abilities to get to the Higashakata estate quicker.
@@Sianic12 It was a joke.
@@StrawberryRhubarbBand He is a mistery and has a ton of backstory. You just have to read into it to comprehind it better. The only flack we can give Tooru is he appeardd too late into the manga.
You might be able to explain Jobin not knowing his own son's age with him just being that bad of a father if you stretch it, but there's no explanation for Tooru taking almost 2 days to drive to the estate.
He has a part-time job as a taxi driver and felt like scamming Yasuho out of driving 2 straight days on car with the taximeter
that's tooru being the worst driver in the world
I choose to believe in the 45 hour drive lol
He got lost
Morioh traffic is just really really bad
I have learned something from this video: If I know I am going to be bad at keeping track of dates in my story, don't ever mention very specific time dates and stuff to avoid worsening it
Noted
I have a feeling Araki has a thing for spatting out random specific shit all over the manga chapters which aren't really important to the plot
Yup. Whenever listing birthdates, I just never mention the year, just the month and day to avoid age issues lol.
That's one solution, another is to write down a general timeline of events beforehand, not every single event, mainly just the ones that matter
@@tornado2366 that's sorta what part 8 was in a nutshell
I would say "Araki forgot" but this seems more like an "Araki can't make up his mind".
But it is interesting how many inconsistent birthdates and ages there are when Araki has said that he uses character histories in his Manga in Theory and Practice book. With the character birthdates being at the top, you would think there would be very little inconsistencies.
Yeah, exactly. That feels like just error with way he creates characters or set up timelines, making it inefficient at best.
It really feels like Araki sometimes just need character to be certain age, so he changes things as he pleases, which clashes with him establishing age of character as first thing he does.
@@nihili4196 or when he changes it just to make a reference to a band
The timeline stuff is really weird to me because araki really loves making his timeline spreads and his family trees and stuff.
"Araki forgot" is a catchall term for any inconsistencies/lapses in continuity.
@@MNGN101 yes, because those things happen when he forgets lmao
We need a spinoff manga oneshot of "Thus Drove Tooru" that details the intense, high-stakes, undoubtedly mind-game filled 45-hour drive to the Higashikata household
Ahahaha
Or What Drives Tooru
Nah just make it a 45-hour-long OVA
The timeline is broken cuz Dio used The World to push people down stairs too many times
Although you are obviously joking, this does raise the curiosity of how things work out with so many different time-based stands existing. In the original timeline alone we know about Star Platinum, The World, Killer Queen: Bites the Dust, King Crimson, Golden Experience Requiem: Return to Zero, and Made in Heaven. That doesn't include stand powers which we don't know about due to not being part of any of the story arcs which might belong to random stand users around the world. With all this time bending and breaking, do things manage to add up properly or would this lead to odd inconsistencies?
@@Crow_Rising Good question, which I cannot answer at all
@@Crow_Rising ok imagine a guy was banging his girl but that was the exact same time when diavolo was spamming KC and the whole thing was skipped and the guy just sees he and his girl in bed lmao
@@Crow_Rising make sence.
@@Crow_Rising If nothing else? You can always use this as a blanket explanation as to why the timeline doesn't add up sometimes lol
why is tooru taking 2 days so hilarious to me i’d like to just imagine tooru *somehow* convincing yasuho that 2 days of continuous driving is how long itll take to go to higashikata estate
"Trust me Yasuho, Paisley Park doesn't know the exact time, and I'm the one driving."
JoJolion's countdown drove me wild when reading it too. Felt unnecessary
Kinda pointless to include a timer that's not accurate.
I think that it was a great idea that could've been used to add more tension to the end of some chapters, but the entire inconsistency of the countdown just made it pointless and unnecessary
@@drakk0n_ It's like in movies when the say the bomb will go off in 30 seconds but it takes 5 minutes.
Nah it's just consistent to the anime time stop lol
Yeah, probably made for anime adaptation in the future.
6:41 It’s really weird to see Tserugi actually be drawn to the proportions of a child and not like a stumpy goblin like in part 8
Cuz it's not from any Jojo manga, it's from a game.
@@alienalchemist yea lol
Doesn't "stumpy goblin" also describe basically all of the side characters in part 6?
@@Jordan3DS that can be excused cuz everyone in Florida looks like a goblin in real life
@@annaphorra looking and being a stumpy goblin are two different things
Plot Twist:
Araki did that deliberately to tease the Part 9 antagonist and their time manipulation powers.
Huh....that would make sense 🤔
I could actually see that. Something which changes how time affects different people?
You thought Araki forgot, but it was me, Part 9 Pucci
@@Kriae Oh shit
I know it's a joke but imagine if the part 9 villain stand had the power to affect the 4th wall or something. Like araki sets up a scavenger hunt in the real world for clues on what's going to happen in the manga
can you imagine the confusion of anyone reading jojolion monthly before Tsuguri's corrected age and wondering how in the world is a 2 year old speaking fluently, being a pervert and doing 4D chess moves against Yasuho
Manish boy:😶
people I see/read part 3: 🗿
When it comes to dates, I always take dates over time passage (i.e. I haven't stopped time since 1988 vs I haven't stopped time for 10 years) and narration over characters. For the first preference, people will round when talking about the past, saying things like 10 years when it might be 9 or 11, probably because the exact length of time doesn't matter, just the general idea. For the second one, characters have memories which may not be perfect where as narration (when not done by a character) is meant to be from a third person, more objective, perspective. That's my take on it though
Yeah part 3 is TOO 80's to be the late 80's if that makes sense. It feels more like its the heyday of the 80's like being smack dab in the middle. The 80's slowed down got refined and calmed down by the late 80's. Part 3 feels like it should take place during 84-86.
@@deviousj5868 Well you clearly never lived in Britain
@@ondururagittandeska2004 part 3 happens in japan and egypt
The first instance might get a pass but no chance for the second one. Characters can recall trivia and events with incredible accuracy but only for certain dates Araki had the insight to include characters misremembering them for no other reason than to confuse the reader about something mostly irrelevant. Araki just simply messed up the dates, stuff like that happens.
@@NickDankstein Part 8, 7 and 6 are being translated by fans
I'm just curious why Araki feels the need to keep writing characters' ages. There's like, literally no reason for it, and it causes confusion, but he still writes characters' ages, like, constantly.
It's not even like it's a manga staple, this is a hell of his own creation.
didn't Araki put the Part 5 character's music tastes in his manga? I feel like Araki is just obsessed with random trivia and that includes his own character's random details
Araki is very detailed when creating his characters. I often feel like he's too detailed. His characters are memorable, but we really do not need to know certain things about them.
As for age of character, it's only useful when you get stuff like "when [character's name] was x years old, something something" since that helps us figure out when more or less that happen.
But as is, Araki is just creating more error room for himself
Like, oh my god, like.
My name is Yoshikage Kira...
It's a way to flesh them out further and add to the reality of the story, like Rohan.
"This is proof that Araki forgets"
No. It's proof that he's immortal and time is meaningless to him so he doesn't keep track of it.
I guess too much time-manipulating stands affected Jojo's timeline in general.
is that a joke?
@@GoldenBred Umm yes? Why wouldn't it be? Lol
@@austerloowaterlitz1543 Tbf a lot of so-called fans of JoJo say crap that you think would be a joke until it turns out they said it with a legit straight face. Prime examples including Leaky-Eye Luca somehow being the baseball kid that Kakyoin mentioned after the Geb fight or the dumb misconception that Emporio recieved a Joestar birthmark when in fact he never did - you would think nobody would bring that kind of trash up in serious discussion, but somehow there are "fans" dumb enough to legitimately consider these things as serious topics. So unfortunately it's really hard to tell when someone is just joking and when someone is being monumentally stupid in this fandom. Luckily, you do seem to be in the former category.
@@mrreyes5004 I agree wholeheartedly with you. I have my fair share of arguments with Jojo fans who don't even understand stuff from the manga/anime.
One thing I hate is the "It just works" or the "Araki forgot" crap. It's sad that misinformation is just spreading around the fanbase.
@@mrreyes5004 The biggest crap i've ever seen in jojo community is the somewhat popular belief that GER has reality manipulation(literally can do anything and is the most powerfull being troughout all jojo media)
Level-headed response: “Hmmm it appears Araki is bad with dates and time and this has only recently begun to affect the enjoyment of Jojo. I hope that he either avoids making dates/times vital to Jojo or improves his perception of this in the future.”
Likely Jojo fan response: “WOW LOOK AT THAT ARAKI CAN’T EVEN COUNT HAHA HE FORGOT!”
Honestly thats just how it is.
JoJo fans view Araki as a double edged sword.
To them, he somehow remembers Kakyoins friend from Part 3 and turned him into Leaky Eye Luca, yet for whatever reason cant remember “Star Finger”
Its almost like JoJo fans have just a bad as memory as they *think* Araki has
@@ctrlaltrepeat245 exactly, they’re projecting
9:23 this is an easy one. Rohan just used heaven’s door on the manga to change it so he would appear younger
Things that illiterate people accuse Araki of forgetting: Complex abilities, ridiculous destiny-defining events, vital character motivations.
What Araki _actually_ forgets: Certain dates and some birthdays.
Also, countdowns.
I can relate
Not even DC fucked up that much.
@@lewisaino You're right. They're far worse :]
While the dates of birth and age can be hard to keep with, especially over a long period of time, the Locacaca fruit countdown makes me think that some stuff that was supposed to happen didn't make it to the final cut. It could be just a fight against random stand user or some character moments for the side characters.
that's my thought as well.
Yeah, I can see Araki getting times and days mixed up a bit. You'd think when it has a bit more relevance to the story (like the Locacaca fruit harvest timer), he'd be a bit more careful about it though.
rokakaka*
@@sw1ft573 both are correct
Man, no WONDER Araki had so many of his villains have time based powers. Time is his natural enemy. XD
Oh my gosh, thank you for covering this- I have been tearing my hair out over Trish’s birthday inconsistency for a while now. She would literally have been born before her parents met-. I wasn’t sure anyone else noticed this Im so glad Im not alone in this ahah.
I suspect the reason they changed Diavolo’s age is to avoid making him (and presumably Donatella) teen parents.
For Tooru, i always thought she was asking him ahead of time because he’s likely busy working at a hospital
I fully expect this to some how get its own segement in the next Araki forgot lmao
araki never misses, except when it comes to math
Araki: **Genuinely remembers multi-layered Stand abilities and destiny-defining world events in his universe.**
_Also Araki: _*_*Forgets some birthdays and countdowns.*_*
He just like me fr
Based Araki
Araki has the art brain
math is hard
In the Jojo Magazine, the most recent official Jojo material we got, it's stated part 3 takes place from 1987 to 1988
Makes sense
The updated Higashikata Family Tree having info on someone who died in the future wasn't inconsistent, the person who wrote the book just waited for that year and then went out and shot Yoshiteru Kira.
“So somehow almost 45 hours passed from the time of yasuho asking tooru to driver her there and her actually arriving” I wonder what they were doing😳
😏
They were making loud noises...
Because the car of Tooru wasn't starting and they had to fix it.
"OH MY GOD YASUHO HELP THE CALAMITY BROKE THE PEDALS OH GOD"
"Oh, jiji, wtf??"
Wonder of P 🌚
Wonder of D 😏
Glad someone finally mentioned this. It’s crazy
"Sailor Dee" is making me think of Josuke/Kira Part 8 as a Waddle Dee, lol
@@Jordan3DS Twas the point lamao
This guy is like the how to wiki but for Jojo
Yea...
Considering that Araki became immortal when he put on the stone mask in 1889 he's probably using Kazoedoshi to calculate ages, which reconciles Koichi and Joseph's ages. IDK about Jotaro, though.
Hamon Beat out here with the real Araki Forgots.
I love how Araki only really forgets/retcons irrelevant things like character ages and birthdays, yet people act like he retcons major plot points.
Minus the part where Tooru Apparently drove across all of fucking Japan.
The ONLY thing that stands out is the JJL Flashforward just 100% being changed but yeah
@@sandmaneyes the flashforward wasn't changed or retconned. It fits in perfectly with the story, the issue is that araki is bad at visual storytelling, so 90% of people who read the flashforward completely miss that its supposed to be two separate events
@@Skibbutz it's 100% a retcon, nothing in that scene made sense.
@@sandmaneyes i have never read the manga (unfortunately) but if i had to guess it is like describing a dream; you forgor
I was just thinking about that whole part about tsurugi being an actual araki forgot moment today, then you make this video
Reminds me of Araki first depicting Hayato as either a toddler or maybe pre-schooler
It's not even Araki forgot, it's Araki retconned
I'm praying that the anime drops the entire countdown when JoJolion eventually comes around.
I'm all up for more criticism on the series, especially if done by you
Ok cool I’m not crazy, I thought I was hallucinating the contradicting Jotaro ages lmao
The real araki forgot
Fr
What about the tiny horses?
@@Kiruma_Tatsuki The tiny horses will be the Part 9 antagonists
@@Kiruma_Tatsuki we don't talk about the tiny horses
If Diavolo were 33 in part 5, Trish would have been born when he was 18, meaning she was conceived when he was 17. Maybe the extra 2 years were added to alter that detail?
he ages in time erase 😳
@@sexb0mb Except Trish was concieved _before_ Diavolo got his Stand (meaning _BEFORE_ he could use time erase). Also, time erase doesn't actually delete time since the events in the erase still happen (the other characters just don't remember it), so everyone else still ages too, not just Diavolo. You're confusing it with The World/Star Platinum (as Jotaro and Dio _do_ age during time stop).
Imagine a timeline where Jonathan used the stone mask
Johnathan is too pure, he would have willing walked into the sun over drinking blood.
There's a manga based on that
I reject my humanity Dio!
Either he would sun himself to death, or become Batman.
Either Dio would have to put the mask on him, or Jonathan would put it on not knowing what it was
Imagine your birthday present being a combat mission to another continent lmao
I could see the bit about Izumi staying 25 years old for a long time being like, you know, a "never ask a woman her age" kind of joke. But that's probably not at all the intent and it's just Araki fumbling ages again.
Don’t get confused, Araki just wanted to show Akira Toriyama how true time inconsistency is done!
Nah bruh db has a worse time line, cell saga is that bad for the confuising time travel shit
@@kait6406 You will have a heart attack at the Goku Black Ark then
@@kait6406the cell saga time travel isn’t confusing at all
I think the inconsistency in diavolo’s age is because if trish was 15 and he was 33, that’d mean she was born when he was 18, and she was likely conceived when he was 17 or young 18; meaning he was a high school student.
He probably didn’t want to deal with the topic of underage intercourse, even if it was only implied through age.
Always nice when theirs a hamon beat video
This is less of an "Araki forgot" and more of something that's a bit difficult to keep track of
It really feels like Araki was rushing the finale of JoJolion, from the fact that it just sort of ends anticlimactically with very little happening to the fact that he couldn't even get the days and times correct, despite that being a major part of the ending. I don't know if he's just getting old or if he simply didn't think it through at all, but it's very bizarre.
yeah, it's like he deadass didn't know what to do and just did things along the way, the flashforward plays a huge point at this, not to mention the retcons with the rock human biology and the timers and Tooru, its feels so slopy
Ah Yes Tooru and Caato dying is not anti climatic
@@ondururagittandeska2004 yeah, we just literally said that
I really can't disagree more with the ending of Jojolion being Sloppy. Especially on my second read-through the ending fits perfectly with the themes and flow of the story. It's not a simple story of 'beat up bad man with evil power' it's a much more comlicated story about family and earth and mother/fatherhood and the nature of identity and how the concept of 'calamity' affects all of those things over time.
I guess a lot of people still want and expect the story in Jojo to revolve around 'punch the bad man!' as a primary plot mover, but Araki as a storyteller has moved way, way beyond that and it shows.
edit: He still can't draw animals though. That will never change.
@@unmitigateddisaster3793 so how'd you explain the flash forward? How Tooru was a MAIN VILLAIN, not a final villain or whatever it was the main villain with lame motives, no charisma or build up and, how'd you explain what is the curse? How is related to higashikatas, why and how the locacaca break the curse? I can keep going and found more and more things on why the end is sloppy. Ok JoJolion is about "breaking a curse" but it left a shit ton of answers introduced a forgettable villain and dropped a LOT of plot points, the end, no, JoJolion as a whole feels sloppy
retcons? i think you mean uh uhmm araki...uhh araki...um araki forgt
Great video, keep up the good work 👍👍
You are a fast watcher
@@Barmeecarba chill he watched it at 2x
@@agee956 more like at 10x
@@agee956 I watch every video in 2x speed
Me: is this a retcon video or a Araki Forgot video?
Hamon Beat: *yes!*
yah the countdown to the harvest was kind of a mess and i don't think it's a translation problem like chapter 97
Another example of translation error would be in start of d4c arc in steel ball run, it is stated to be 3:39 in English release of the chapter while in the Japanese release, it was 3:59. They later corrected it in volume release
My theory as to why Diavolo's birth year was changed is that the manga would imply that Diavolo was 17 when Trish was conceived, although I don't know how big of an issue this would be.
the entire end of jojolion with the flashbacks or the flashforwards needs a video either explaining it or going over inconsistencies. and there needs to be like a visual of the timeline or something as well as this stuff gets complicated
Personally the harvest countdown doesn't bother me that much, since to me the sequence of events shown on its own is more important than objective time, and for me the countdown is more to drive tension than to make a real timeline of the arc
I've always knew a series like this was going to get bizarre with time
there's also a pucci flashback of dio talking about his stand ability years before he discovered time stop
Thank you for the video hamon beat
Ah, yes. My favorite horoscope sign
*T O R U S*
Araki is not extremely detail oriented, he is a writer with a lot of great ideas and he doesn't mind making things inconsistent so he can implement those ideas. You could call these inconsitincies real "Araki forgot" moments but I think it's more so just Araki doing what he wants in the moment and not sweating the details. JoJo in general is a very spontaneous series because of his writing style, and that is kinda part of the charm, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I do think the overarching narrative often suffers from this though, especially part 8.
One I noticed with the Netflix sub in specific is that while not in the original Japanese, the Netflix sub has George Joestar I note himself as "George Joestar I" and not just "George Joestar", even though a while before George Joestar II was born, so he wouldn't know to call himself this. This isn't a problem with the manga or anime, but a problem in the subtitles.
Eh, that's not that big of a deal tho, since there are families that add numbers, and it would just mean George I was just first George in the family.
It is inconsistent with Jonathan not having number, but maybe he just wasn't using it because he's Jonathan
@@nihili4196 Nah, you're not named I until II has been born.
@@nihili4196 You make a good point.
@@Nick_The_Greek21 in aristocratic families you are.
Hell, if you'll look at Popes, who inherited same naming scheme from same source as aristocratic families, they do use numbers even though it's the first one. And ironically only current Pope doesn't follow said naming scheme.
So it's more like, Araki forgot what time it is?
I think it was a great video and I would love to see more videos that feature jojo inconsistencies which aren't particularly araki forgot.
In all realness I cannot stand timeline inconsistencies despite being bad at chronology myself but as someone who makes actual published work I cannot grasp why there would be inconsistencies in the editing process but I don't have room to talk considering I've never written anything published and suck at math
It is weird, you'd think that by the time the volume release came out that any mistakes would have been fixed. There's potentially dozens of employees that work on on the process of getting a manga from the creation stage to being volumized, so it's so weird that they'd all miss such glaring issues.
I'm much the same, but mostly because I have an infatuation with constructing coherent timelines, comprehensive trees, detailed design documents and keeping accurate records so if I find _one_ thing that's out of order it throws my whole work into turmoil and worries me to high hell. As such, why I always double check my material with calculators of all kinds, so if there was a reason I'd pin on Araki's inconsistencies it'd be because he couldn't just log onto a timespan calculator before 2005, his assistants much the same.
@@Jordan3DS I'm not sure they missed it, rather that they're instructed not to change it, or not allowed to. I don't have any hard evidence, but from what I've gleamed observing the manga-anime adaptation process they're very particular about maintaining accuracy to the source material as much as possible, only making changes at the behest of the original holder: the only instance I can think of regarding this is Youjo Senki, where a lot of the aesthetics and designs - notably Tanya and Visha - are radically different and "de-glamourized" from the manga, itself somewhat different to the original Light Novel, all changes approved (for the manga) or ordered (for the anime) by Carlo Zen.
My guess would be that they feel it isn't their [the clerks'] job to change anything dictated by the guy who actually created so they it alone; but then that makes one wonder: why don't they just approach him about it?
"This is all i can think of so far" this is really funny to me, because it seems like you knew all that by heart lmao
Tooru driving for two whole days is peak comedy
If it's at all possible to squeeze enough content out of the subject, maybe a look into characters' designs and how they've changed over time (e.g. Jonathan gaining the Zeppeli-style bandanna) would be worth a video. Or, y'know, something along those lines, anyway; I'm still not sure if there's enough material to do a real video on it.
I have couple of requests for videos: JoJo games retrospective with deleted content and references and something like "good and bad examples of changes from manga to anime"
Hamon beat most of the time "No you fools, Araki didn't forget/that thing wasn't retconned/pay attention."
Hamon beat this time: *rumble sfx*
Hamon Beat was so tired of people pointing out incorrect Araki forgot he actually pulled out the real Araki forgot
“1987-1988”
ITS THE FUNNY FEDDY FEZBART NUMBER. PURLEP GUY GO BRRRRRR
Norisuke's age has also been inconsistent in Jojolion as well (I mean current Norisuke not the ancestor). His birthday, current age, and the age he was during his flashback (when he got the disease as a child) don't add up properly.
Oh God
This made me remember the chaos around the last arc of Jojolion and the countdown to the harvest of the new rokakaka
Everybody was like
How the fuck Araki is going to make all of this fits in the countdown
It ended up kinda messy and anticlimax
In general the ending just feels super anticlimactic. It's like, here's a main villain that we're just introducing right now, and he's just some guy! Here's Josuke fighting bugs for multiple chapters, now here's him doing it again! Here's Jobin randomly not mattering despite being set up for the whole story, and here's Kaato randomly appearing after being introduced one time forever ago to defeat the main villain with her stand power that's just now being revealed! Now it's over, and nothing happened and very little is resolved! 10/10 plot.
Then the fanbase goes "well, part 9 will explain everything", until it comes out and it doesn't.
@@Jordan3DS EXACTLY
@@Jordan3DS I actually liked the ending
@@Jordan3DS Is like Madara and Kaguya but worse.
You finally made a video on this!
Dr. Beat, Ph D of Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken
The fact that none of these actual inconsistencies about the timeline NEVER make it into this horrific "Araki forgot!!!!!!" compilations is really telling of how little effort or thought goes into those things.
When Araki says he has bad memory, this is definitely what he means
We should keep in mind that Dio got his stand around a few months to a year or more before the events of part 3 can fully begin. So when things are referring to Dio getting his stand, that's some time before part 3.
The remark on Norisuke looking like an old man when he’s supposed to be 40 is hilarious to me. This is JoJo, sir
7:56 is gonna be my favorite araki forgot moment for part 8
Trish's new birthday is such a blunder for me because it's before Donatella and The Boss meet at the coast. Doesn't really make sense they would meet up more than one time to me and Donatella totally would have mentioned she had a kid the second time they hung out.
I could literally go on an entire rant about how botched that entire backstory was. And the worst part is that it actually affected the entire narrative because Abbacchio needs to go back to the specific date the picture was taken. Normally a changed birthday wouldnt be a big deal but since its relevant to the plot, much like the stuff in part 8, it really throws a wrench in it all once you realize it.
I don't mind these mistakes, I know people say JoJo takes itself very seriously but I feel it having some mistakes makes it human and I just love the lore and feel of every manga and part so I don't care if there's tiny changes or some mistakes
Damn, I was kinda undecided on when Part 3 was temporarily located, but I never noticed how broken in general the timeline is
No see, Enya founded the pizzerias in the late 70s with William Afton. In the 80s, Diavolo was bitten by Fredbear in 1983 and got his Stand. Dio was the bite of 87 victim.
My guess is that diavolo's birth year was changes because In the original case he would have had Trish at 18 (or maybe 17 I didn't do the math), after the change it implies 20
Add this to the list of reasons I don't give my characters ages anymore.
Nice video dude
Kinda surprised no one mentions these when bringing up araki forgot
Why bring up real forgots when you can have fake forgots xD
Can't wait for the part 9 villian to have a time manipulation power that's able to rewrite history, so Araki can retcon every single mistake he's made
it's funny how the timeline related issues start occuring during the part where Time Manipulation was introduced.
Last time I was this early part 6 wasn't announced yet
Dates can be a real pain in the...
Maybe some guy flipped tooru off on the road which incurred calamity but consequently caused a 45 hour traffic jam in morioh
0:01 shes on today i'm on the beat 😭😭
nah fam, the higashikata just got yoshiteru assassinated
If school taught me anything, is that even the great skip history class.
I guess the real Araki forgot was math this entire time.
8:54 maybe tooru just drove very very slowly.
The fact that this video isn't titled "The Times Araki Forgot" is huge missed opportunity smh
He already has a video named like that
Good pun
@@NickDankstein no, he has a video titled "The Times Araki Actually Forgot"
@@tythus654 Yeah, *like* that. A one word different and an identical sentiment to what your saying. Why would he almost exactly repeat a title he had already used when he can use a new, more accurate one?
@@NickDankstein For a good pun.