Chinatown Punk Wars | Artbound | Season 14, Episode 1 | PBS SoCal
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2023
- In the late 1970s, two Chinese restaurants became the unlikely epicenter of L.A.’s burgeoning punk scene. The emerging music form featured fast-paced songs and hard-edged melodies with anti-capitalist messaging. As told through interviews with John Doe (X), Alice Bag (The Bags), Keith Morris (Circle Jerks, Black Flag, OFF!), and Martin Wong (Save Music in Chinatown), and featuring music from current performers such as The Linda Lindas and more.
Production Company: Arclight Productions
Want to learn more? Watch more at pbssocal.org/artbound
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#art #LosAngeles #California #culture #punk #punkrock #music #musichistory 
Развлечения
This is so cool. I'm a 30 year old Black woman from the Deep South and rock music (punk music in particular) has always resonated with me since I was a little girl. I'm really glad this documentary touches on the fact that punk is not just about skinny young white dudes, it's for everyone and there are no rules.
I "was" a skinny white dude and I love this comment!
Also a white boy from southwest Georgia 🤘 💪...wanting to tell you that you rock grrrrl...POSITIVE VIBES
Yes! and that was precisely what attracted me to Punk! Everyone was welcome. I'm an Oldie now but Punk attitude will stay with me 🤘
I’m a 60 year old white woman who grew up in the Bay Area who got into punk in my teens and have loved it ever since. I’m so happy to find it continues to inspire.
Spot on!
Dwight Twilley (June 6, 1951 - October 18, 2023). He died two weeks ago. RIP.
RIP Dwight
Twilley don’t mind if you wanna go outside
Wow what info for the recently gone DTwilley! He is that great then and now
RIP😢.......
Damn.
Esther Wong saved my guitar from being stolen. She was the best
Those were the best years of our lives. Amazing that you met MS. Wong herself
Guessing this documentary didn’t give her justice then? She seemed like a horrible being.
@@carlosmiranda5871 did you watch it? I thought it gave her quite a bit of justice even from those who were critical of her from back then.
I am in this picture at 4:41 My friends Pat Quinn and Dave Harding are in there too. We are watching China White at The Starwood in 1980.
Good stuff mate, it's very cool to spot yourself in a classic moment in time like that. It must have been a great place to hang out. Cheers from Australia.
Loved the Starwood
Catholic Discipline, The Bags, DOA ! My first punk show. Chuck Biscuits, the drummer for DOA was just 16 yrs. of age. His mother let him tour as long as he kept up with his schoolwork!
Joe shithead is still at it, as are a lot of the old bands.
Kinda like Harley Flanagan when he was in The Stimulators. He was only 12 years old at the time.
When JFA started out, their singer Brian was like 14, but Bam the drummer was only 11! They were going out on the road too. I think the McDonald brothers from Red Cross (or Redd Kross as it came to be after a cease and desist letter) were also around the same age when they started as well. Also, Eater from the UK were in their early teens. There were a lot of really young kids playing in punk bands back then.
💯
I saw Chuck with 7 Seconds in the ‘90’s…
OMG they should totally do a movie on Madame Wong and her life and how she got totally embroiled in the punk scene. What an awesome story!
Madame Wong in a Thog!
I would love to see that 🤩
As a native Detroiter and a person from that scene, I have to say, kudos to the negative approach sweatshirt! 🤘
I was a roadie for The Orphans in 80s. Madam Wongs was my world. I was 15! You still look great Alice!
Patricia Morrison on bass with The Bags went on to play with The Gun Club, Sisters of Mercy. I think she’s married to Dave Vanian the last I heard from The Damned.
@@markusantonio4866Not just married him, but played in the Damned herself for about 8 years or so. She’s featured on the “Grave Disorder” album from 2000. Her and Dave are still happily married, and have a daughter named Emily who is now an adult.
Chinese New Year @ Wongs, Cafe & Chinatown is a top memory in my life, the punk bands, the acid,the fireworks, the dancing human dragons writhing through the square, top notch🐉🎇🎆🎸🥁🎤🎹Stuart...so much better than dinner with parents in early 70's🤣
The photographs are amazing and show a better picture of how Punk was back at its glory in Los Angeles. Awesome documentary!
I've been watching punk documentaries for years whenever I come across new ones and this is a story that really needed told. There was so much new information here. Great stuff.
💯 frfr
Wow, Alice Bag still looks hot! Agree?
Cunnalingus all the way 👅
PBS needs to do the story of the Mabuhay Gardens in San Francisco. The Punk/New wave scene started there in December of 1976.
your mother was punker and wore combat boots - she was the best prostitute in SF circa - 1976 - 1986
That would be killer!
YUP
Drove by their a few years back - it’s called Fame now if I remember correctly?
Used to go there 3, 4 times a week. All depending on who was there. Also later the Deaf Club, Temple Beautiful, Tool & Die, Target Video, Sound of Music. There always was a show someplace.
My band SofaMusik playing the Hong Kong with The Blasters and Gun Club. Fun place!! Great doc!
Gun Club? Very cool gig!
@@leemark63 CARLOS GUITARLOS HELPED US LUG A FULL UPRIGHT PIANO UP THE STAIRS!
I don't think I missed many X gigs at the Hong Kong Cafe. It was an exciting time.
I’m utterly jealous 😂
Exene's a republican now, I can't wrap my head around this
That's pretty funny! After I watched this video I was thinking back and remembered a show where Exene was wearing a Baltimore Orioles hat. I looked it up and the Orioles were in the World Series in 1979. That was probably October 1979. Goodness I'm getting old!@@PG-wz7by
@@PG-wz7byMaybe she's still anti establishment. No one is more corporatist than globalist democrats. Or maybe she's against sexually indoctrinating kids, drugging them and mutilating their genitals...it takes all kinds.
Another fantastic doc. The Police and The Motels playing in one Chinatown restaurant vs bands like X, Germs and Circle Jerks in another joint a few doors down.
The police are the tentacles of the c.i.a. & it's infiltration into this subculture/movement. Miles Copeland jr., Co-founder of c.i.a. had 3 sons. One being the drummer for the police. One managing bands (specifically punk & new wave)& signing them to his label i.r.s. records & the 3rd booking shows for all of them. The fanzine sniffin' glue even had its headquarters at i.r.s. records. Look into it. Highly doubt any of this was by coincidence
Thanks KCET for this mini documentary. It brings me back old memories. I wish you would do one for the Olympic Auditorium located in downtown LA. Or the Anti Club in East Hollywood. The owner, Helen, would go in the crowd and stop the mosh pit with a broom. She wouldn't allow slam dancing at the Anti Club. ☠️
Anti club was great saw the Addicts there!
Lol that's fucking hilarious.....
"oh I'l let punk bands play ,but no dancing or I'll get out my broom!"
@@colddaze6680 it was an all ages venue she was worried for insurance reasons
@@Lyndanet yeah I understand what you saying there, but never ceases to amaze me how many over the years have let punk bands play their venue, and just had little to no understanding of the sub culture that comes with it. Still can't expect people, especially kids to stand still and behave at a punk gig, not a real one anyways
@@colddaze6680 how do you explain mosh pits at rap concerts then ?
Grew up in Redondo, had a hardcore band called the detonators back then. Glad to see a mention of the Vex club and the East Los scene.
First show at the Vex for me was Black Flag and Dez was singing ...
JOHNNY LAW!
I remember getting the detonators and Plaid retina at the same time so obviously I was listening to both at that moment.
@@birdsiview6845 yeah that’s me
I'm from Redondo, was part of that whole scene. Do you remember Nip Drivers?
Yeah Bruce! Know you back from Eugene in the 90's. Still have my Detonators LP's.
Love to Esther Wong and Bill Hong respectively. There probably wouldn’t have been any scene without them.
There would of been a scene ,one way or other.But I think its quite interesting that it evolved way it did out of China town there. Where there was a will, punks found a way. If it wasn't a gay nightclub in London it was the Country & Blue Grass Club in NYC.
Or its in a basement, or disused warehouse. Local punks used to put on regular gigs in a garage of a share house here for a while. Sound proofed it with old mattresses, was lit up with one red light bulb. Was some great gigs there, was set up after local legend punk pub was sold, then turned into trendy bar.
The ethos of punk D.i.y was born out of necessity.
@@colddaze6680the drunk tank? Man I grew up going to punk and metal and ska backyard shows. Great times
@@jayay5943 the punk house garage was in a house here in Australia, local to me
What a sick doc thank you! Also a young Michael Gira PRE NY in there at Hong Kong cafe!
(44:45) I saw The Brat play with X at the Swedish-American Hall in San Francisco. As someone with both Latino and Swedish heritage, this was truly a memorable night.
Great punk rock documentary. Thank you KCET for doing this.
Great story , I grew up Chinatown and heard these stories , amazing journalism here ❤
I think it’s funny that Keith morris is wearing a negative approach hoodie. I went to the circle jerks/negative approach show in Pittsburgh at mr smalls. That’s awesome!!
Both venues are household names on the subject of early LA punk but being that i'm not from LA, had no idea on the full history or the proximity really at all. Really cool presentation, thanks!
I’ve often wondered when it came to the costume designs/ style of the film BladeRunner 1982 did the director Ridley Scott visit China Town Madame Wongs in 1979 /1980 and got inspired/ influenced from the early punk/new wave scenes of Los Angeles California ???
gawd, what a time .... this was like watch'n old family movies ... and Blessed are the ones who lived it -n- survived it.
-X- is L.A.
😎✨️
Wow, what great doc, had no idea the backstory. Madame Wong was a badass bizperson. The bands...think I saw a few when them play in Atlanta at 688. Just crazy. Thank you KCET/Artbound and the sponsors.
Yes me aswell.out in N.Z.always happy to learn more ..[Wonder if Nirvana et al.Played @'either of these venues.?!]❤😂😢😮😊
This was so cool. Growing up listening to punk, of course I had heard of both of these clubs, but there was so much I didn't know about the history and the rivalry. I'm glad this showed up for me to enjoy and learn a little more about the history of music I loved growing up and to this very day enjoy just as much, if not more. Thank you so much for this!
Yeah, both clubs were name-checked in "I Just Want Some Skank" by the Circle Jerks.
@@iliketowatch. Yeah, plus I've seen a billion flyers over the years.
your mother was punker and wore combat boots - she outdrank Gg Allin
I wish I could say that was true
Thank you so much and God bless you a million times for posting this great and precious variety of video of concert footafe, vintage video of so many different places and people, interviews, and so many things.
This documentary is absolutely 💯 *EXCELLENT.*
What I would do to go back and experience this music scene.
I never had any idea about the connection between Punk Rock music and Chinatown. I was born and have lived in Los Angeles all 49 years of my life and have been to Chinatown God only knows how many times.
This is probably where the idea came from for that club/concert scene in that early 80's movie "Jeckle and Hyde."
Wow, incredibly cool doc! I'm 54 and from Vancouver, had always heard about these places since my teens but knew very little about them aside from a few legendary stories and maybe photos of the outer facades. Grateful that this was made, and didn't just focus on the bands, but the non-musicians behind the scenes at the time like the promoters, owners and family members. Also unbelievable that I'd never heard of The Brat before this! Amazing sound, hope they have something available out there. Thanks.
The brat ! What a cool band !
The Brat was f’n great! Really overlooked band (outside of L.A.). They put out one really great EP back in (I think) ‘80, maybe ‘81 called “Attitudes”. I used to have it. I think it has since been reissued, but the versions I heard sounded different from how I remember the original EP sounding, like it had been remixed or something. Too bad, because that EP was perfect as it was. Didn’t need any tampering.
Agreed. I’m 56 and grew up with reading about these venues since 82’ and living in Walla Walla wa.
I lad no idea they were located across the courtyard from the other
What a great piece of history
I’ve been living in LA since 1972 and began playing LA clubs in 1982 but I never knew about this rivalry. Really colorful times. Come to think of it, we were loading up to play Madame Wong’s on a Monday day night when we got the call that it had burned over the weekend.
Esther Wong was very pretty!
When punk became a uniform, it was over. The toxic aggression filtered into the scene and destroyed the aesthetic. Punk was all inclusive, it was good the be weird, non-conforming to the mainstream. My friends who were mostly skateboarders got into the scene. I was the Brazilian, "Jazz" kid, and went to many shows with my punky friends. I turned them on to Larry Carlton, Steely Dan, Jeff Lorber Fusion, Brand X, etc. They turned me on to Buzzcocks, X, Fear, 999, and The Jam, among others. Kept things interesting. Fun times.
It started with The Ramones wearing uniforms in ‘74. Uniforms were there the whole time in plain site. And they were just copying The Stooges and the MC5.
Superb doc. Great use of public broadcasting dollars.
I know Suburban Lawn's older band members used to frequent. There's lots of LA punk bands that the rest of the country wouldn't even imagine were influenced and prospered by those two venues.
Rad❤
We seen Suburban Lawns at Madam Wongs when the singer Swung the mic onto someone’s head in the audience then walked off the stage. We never knew why ? Sucked because the show ended early.
Sue Tissue
Those were great times! I remember meeting Esther Wong back in the early 80’s, while playing in my band at her MW West. Saw some great shows at both locations.
Alaways heard these legendary stories growing up in Chinatown . Great journalism. Thanks ❤
Just a note the Primal Scream on the Wong's West sign is the Primal Scream from Utah, not the more famous band from Scotland founded at about the same time. I know this because I was a founder and lead screamer of the Utah version.
Man, the So. Cal. punk scene to this day reflects the normal population - 50% girls. I've lived in a few places and travelled to a lot of others, the punk and skin scenes are always sausage parties. Wish it was more like LA! This documentary is pretty awesome
Hate to burst your bubble but I was there. In the early days of the scene in LA proper, which includes Hollywood and The Valley, there were plenty of females but it was never close to 50/50. By the time you get into the '80s and the scene turns hyper violent those numbers are way down. The scenes in Ventura, Santa Barbara, the South Bay , and Orange County were always sausage fests.
@@mjwbulich That's a bit of a bummer to hear. I'd go to visit (Orange Co. or Long Beach) every few years starting in the early 90's and we always had a blast. The early/mid 80's in PA seemed to be a lot of dudes and a few (almost all goth) girls
LOVE the lead singer’s voice from the VEX ❤❤❤❤❤
Keith morris is a OG
Is it me, or does he always look stoned in just about every documentary he does?
The Hong Kong Low carried over to the early 90’s to feature some of the best Rock En Español bands in the LA scene!
Only halfway through this video and I can relate to this place to a certain degree. Maybe once or twice in a lifetime, you will find a bar/music venue that just works and feels right. I have been so fortunate. Being in on a scene as it’s emerging, is a privilege and potentially very fun.
The rivalry is stuff of legend between the two venues. I laughed at the antics pulled by the Hong Kong Cafe side and the proximity of how close they were in distance added to the comical nature of it all. With a predominately male audience, I found it perceptive and funny that Ms. Wong identified the frenzy caused by a female singer (The Bags) as rizzing up male testosterone levels, thus making them lose their minds and destroy things. When it was really the punk ethos and music that was the cause, but to an outsider particularly a woman's patriarchcal role, she saw otherwise, as being something more primal. Maybe there is something to that.
Nah, theres nothing to it...There's both men & women living all around world who can fly off handle from littlest things
She seemed like a typical capitalistic business over. She just got lucky she ended up with this opportunity. Credit to her for fueling punks, she became the authority they hated. Rightfully so.
Thank you, this was fukng great. Well done. Living on the other side of the country and only 7 years old in 1980 I knew very little about this specific scene. Super interesting. To anyone not supporting public television and public radio it's at least worth considering.
X, was my favorite band !
Yeah.
THE LINDA LINDAS!!!!!!!!! Oh that made me so happy
Amazing work. So happy to be a supporter of public television.
This was AMAZING. My dad told me so many stories from his time at Hong Kong Cafe and Madame Wongs, but this is my first time actually seeing any of it. Incredible work!
Whenever I see Keith Morris my face instantly lights up. That man is a national treasure 🩷
This is the Coolest. I was there in ELA, I totally remember that scene This brought a great smile to my face remember my youth im 60 now thanks Kcet
"part of being bohemian is finding places that are in decay"
I lived in the southeast during this time and learned about it through skate and punk mags. helped Alley Cats and Go-Gos 999 and a lot of those other bands roadie their stuff at the Milestone and Pteradactyl and they were super cool to hang and talk story with. Loving the history!! Alice u rule!!!
I was there, it makes me so sad to be old now, fear used to put me on the guest list at the starwood, bless all those great bands, what a scene......
Yes, it does suck to get old. I remember getting into the Starwood at 15 years old. Watch X, The Cramps, etc, and finish up getting drunk in that bar area. I also remember there was a really small discotheque area where we would go in there and dance to Blondie & B52's in between band sets. Fond memories
how cool...one night joan jett was at the bar alone, looked down and out, after that she made history....@@Lucretciela
Great Doc! I'm from L.A. and got into punk just after The Hong Kong closed and the Starwood opened up to punk gigs. It's crazy i never knew the real story about the hong kong and Madam Wongs till i saw this. Later on just after highschool i would book my non punk rock band at Madam wongs West, which we usually played to about 3 people downstairs on a tuesday night. The big bands always played upstairs. Saw some amazing bands play M.W.W. . Long live punk rock!
FEAR/ ADOLESCENTS
THIS NOVEMBER 11 @ REGENT THEATER DWNTWN LA
BE THERE OR MISS OUT ON PUNK ROCK HISTORY 🤟🏻😎
Thank you for this documentary. I caught the tail end of punk and the beginning of New Wave in southern Calif. (San Diego). We saw X regularly, the Ramones, the Gun Club, the Knack, Devo, Go-Gos, Police & Madness. Good times. But that's not all I listened to. I also started following the Dead in 1980. I remember the Tom Tom Club opening up for the Dead once. Very different genres, same anti-establishment ethos!
Minor correction near the end. The movement that appeared in the early 90’s was very underground and had so much relevance that many bands that played their began a commercial trend by the end of that decade. rock en español bands where rare but somehow we beefed up at the honk king low. I was 15 at the time and It was so cool to just belong to something rare at the time where bands where experimenting with new sound singing in Spanish. A lot of us knew each other but as soon as the business side blew up people split and many followed the money.
Great episode
NIce Documentary.
One of my most ingrained concert memories is seeing Lee Ving pick not one or two but several fights with audience members one night at Madame Wongs.
Fantastic doc! Filled in a lot of stuff i didn't know regarding the LA music scene in that period and going forward
4:00 I remember seeing the Zippers in Huntington Beach. They used to play "Helter Skelter"
The guy on the left in the picture was missing a finger, but he still played rhythm guitar.
Gorgeous Documentary brought tears!!
This was a time that will never be again !!😢
Went to Madam Wongs😊
Did she every wear a thong? My buddie said she did.
What happened?? NO honorable mention and a tip of the hat to the Screamers ?? 77-79. Tomata du Plenty. I thought this was about "punk" and the Hong Kong within in the LA Scene. That's cool they mentioned the Brat. FINALLY
exactly.. while Keith and other punk elites enjoy their millions of dollars, Tomata died in obscurity... like so many others..🤢🤮
Excellent cultural history here!! ❤
This brings back a ton of memories. I was going to college at LMU (78 -82) loved X and the Dead Kennedys but also New Wave and good old AOR rock too so the hard core punks always called me a poser - but it was good times and a ton of good music of all kinds.
What a great program, well done KCET!
Thank you KCET.... Very well done.
I like bands that heckle the audience. FEAR, the damned, etc. I first dove into punk when i was like 12 or 13. Long after this time. But the black and white stills and gritty tape footage always made me come back to learn more about it. If I had a time machine I'd probably go back to the late 70's (with some money) and never come back. Then Id have the 80's and 90's and even early 00's to look forward to.
I love the ceiling tiles trippy as fuck
Rodney on the Rocks, wow that’s a throwback 💔
I was really hoping this would mention Nervous Gender, and I’m really really happy it did.
The Hong Kong (restaurant, downstairs) had the best egg rolls!
Great little documentary. Love picking up on new pieces of punk history like this. Knew a little about LA scene ,but not as in depth as this before, at least not with these 2 clubs. Love learning about the evolution of certain scenes in different areas. And hearing about all the never really told before back stories that put all the pieces together.
Discovered couple new L.A bands going to check out some more of them.
And that sillyness over the flyers tween Madam Wong's and Hong Kong cafe literally had me laughing. Great stuff.
I Never had a the Chance to Say this to Darby Crash back then , so I' I'm gonna say it now Just wish I can tell Darby Thanks for making the Whole Punk Scene Happen in China Town at the Hong Kong if it wasn't for Darby asking the Owner Hong Kong if the Germs can play a show there the Whole China Town Punk Scene / Movement and Madame Wong War would of never Happen , Thank You Darby Crash , Man oh man Darby You left Us to Soon Punk Music was Just about to Explode Darby Didn't get to see or Hear Some of the most greatest Punk bands Produce Legendary Songs and Albums , Thanks to Darby and the Germs they where the Beggining, if Darby can only be Alive always will be missed R. I. P. ☄️
thank you for this documentary!
I remember waiting for Rodney on the the ROQ to come on every week.
He still has the best New music show on every week on Sirius radio , 45 + years & counting!! He is godhead 🎉❤
Thanks , great doco. ❤ from Australia and The Hybernators 😊
More of this , please …
Love this thank you guys for making this
I was always the guy passed out upstairs and dragged downstairs and thrown out in the courtyard. Thank you Alex, Tom, Roxie and Scott. Oh, and Dee.
Dope ! Thank you!
These bands are so awesome. Absolutely love this. Love the attitude and independent diy mindset of all of it. Punks and New wavers, Hong Kong and Wongs. Just cool ❤ 😎
🤘 I played Bass w/ 'EVIL FANTASY' in 1985, @ both Madame Wong's East and West. Madame Wong was TOTALLY KOOL. 🙏
this was so refreshing & emotional to watch that I shed some happy tears at the end :) \m/
I grew up in the early Boston punk scene in 77 at The Rat but it's great to see the other scenes around the same time. Great job!
It is just so terrible now how Massachusetts has gone so gay now.
The world is gay now
Thank you for this doc! We need more LA punk docs!
Love this so much.
Shout out to Bob Lefsetz for recommending this in his newsletter. What a great doco!
I remember the early 80s hardcore scene. It was extremely rare to have show that was not violent to the point of absurdity.
This wasn't just skinheads showing up to ruin the party. Or suburban kids coming in to town to see what this punk rock thing wa Though that happened too.
There was just a lot of people one upping each other as to who was most punk rock.
Every single VFW or S.tMarks type show a toilet or sink got broken.
Every single show at a bar that didn't really card there was a couple broken noses or a broken arm.
I remember a specific St. Marks show where the religious person who was in charger of the hall was freaking out because they saw blood on the floor between bands. The promotoer who I was kind of friends with was making up some story about it being fake blood and the kids were just trying to be theatrical.
I chimed in, "oh yeah there was a Donahue about it last week!"
It was real blood of course. Someone had gotten their nose busted pretty hard and was in the the bathroom spewing blood and snot into the sink.
There also was a reason straight edge was a thing. Early punk had a lot of hard drugs around. I grew up around drug abusers so I never got into that doing lines or needle stuff during the early 80s scene. But I saw a lot of it. And if I was seeing it as a naive kid, you know there was tons more going on.
When I got old enough to drive and legally be in clubs I started booking things myself.
Let me tell you, punk rock and failing businesses are a match made in heaven. We will either resuscitate that sad little Hoffbrau or drive it into bankruptcy.
This is Great.. thanks
I played there many times and always had the best time! I was the Drummer for the Crayz 1980-82
I played drums with Vox Pop on that 1980 new years eve show with Fear. What a night... still smiling
The pranks and rivalry were hilarious
This here is one badass documentary!!!!
This is excellent. Many thanks to the people who made this happen.
Bravo KCET!
Man this is GREAT!!!