Velvet Underground is an unsung influence on shoe gaze (“There wasn’t many people that listened to The Velvet Underground, but those that did started bands” - Brian Eno ) Edit: The Velvet Underground was indeed mentioned at 3:50 my bad ☺️
Curve is one of my all time favorite shoegaze bands- hope they get a mention in your follow-up video. Dean Garcia's wall of guitar distortion married with Toni Halliday's haunting vocals. The result is mesmerizing...
@@AGHORNATH18 it was a derogatory term used by the english music press around the time of madchester. It was only later the term got co-opted to mean a particular genre.
@@_benjimouse_Agreed. I think the mainstream were irked by drone / proto SG getting in the way of the intended all dominant Britpop. Most of which owes its fame to the deep state.
Great list with some worthy arguments made, I think Wire’s Chairs Missing and 154 deserve a mention and were influential on a lot of late 80s/ early 90s shoegaze artists especially songs like The 15th. I’d also nominate The Chameleons Script of the Bridge and Kitchen of Distinction’s Love Is Hell
In the 93 I was 18 and a senior and always loved grunge. As a 49 middle aged rocker….I love shoegaze. Glad you mentioned Joy Division. They’re one of my favorite bands of all time.
I love early shoegaze, but this is just an amazing list of music. I also particularly love Husker Du’s cover of the Byrds’ “8 Miles High” and Dinosaur Jr’s cover of The Cure’s “Just Like Heaven.” I’m not super into covers in general, but I think they both develop something unique with the material, like a well done jazz standard. I’m happy kids are finding all of these treasures like I did 30 years ago. God I’m old.
Really glad that the Ronettes, Beach Boys, and Byrds were mentioned! For my ears, it’s hard to beat that jangly 12-string sound the Byrds were exploring in psychedelia.
Can’t forget Big Black’s notched sheet metal guitar pick sound making a cheap old six string sound like a shattered mess of wires and razors. No less dreamy, just more of the nightmare sort.
This is a very insightful video. You know your stuff. Well researched, I think. Some pre shoegaze and dream pop could be Dream Syndicate’s When It’s Over, early Butthole Surfers, an obscure 60s band named HP Lovecraft did some wonderful, ethereal albums, Psychic TV’s cover of Good Vibrations, Fifty Foot Hose, from the 60s, insane stuff…some of the Fugs songs like CIA Man, MC5, Great Society Sally Go Round the Roses, Love’s Seven and Seven is, and Little Red Book, East West by Paul Butterfield, Omaha by Moby Grape. Damn, isn’t Shoegaze a sub genre of Neo Psychedelia?
psychedelic rock, surely is a foundation. You're onto something with HP Lovecraft.... at the mountains of madness... or a Moody Blues Trip.. how about County Joe and the Fish with Section 43? on the new stp at monterey.. ruclips.net/video/41q4p0UyZAA/видео.html
Good list. I think there's a subtle difference between "sounds a bit like" and "influenced" shoegaze. It's worth recalling that by about 1989 most of the foundations were there - 60s bubblegum, Velvets, Sonic Youth, Cocteaus, Paisley Underground - but it was incredibly varied in terms of influencing musicians, and let's face it people made shit up to seem cool when they were talking to NME or Melody Maker. Except Adam Franklin, who is just cool anyway. By 1989 a lot of indie acts were doing world tours (Sonic Youth, Mudhoney, Dinosaur) which set off a whole new wave of guitar/gaze experimentation, not least because LPs were expensive, music news was slow, MTV didn't exist, so late teens like me had to make do. We did ok.
If you want girl group music that is a precursor to shoegaze, you have to check out the Jaynetts, "Sally Go Round the Roses." It has very melodic, super-repetitive, chanting vocals that were recorded with layers and layers on top of each other. It's like a missing link between 60s girl group & drone & dream pop. I also love their song, "Snowman, Snowman, Sweet Potato Nose." It's like a repetitive, chanting shoegaze Christmas carol.
Sally Go Round the Roses is awesome. There's a great cover version by Pentagle too. The Jaynetts version definetly belongs on a roots of Shoegaze mixtape.
Amazing music, I never heard them before. But they're not a precursor to shoegaze. They're clearly riffing off of what the Ronettes did but they didn't innovate the sound in any way to make them a precursor to or an inspiration for Shoegaze. They're just another (out of thousands) of players from that period who were trying to capture that Phil Spector sound.
Really fun and thought-provoking. As I was watching, I couldn’t help thinking of Bowie’s ‘Heroes’ with Brian Eno, John Lennon’s ‘#9 Dream’ and Bauhaus’ ‘Third Uncle’ would fit well between The Beach Boys and Joy Division.
The Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" is also considered a mainstay of shoegazing. Kevin Shields himself confirmed that "Loveless" was released on Mono in honor of this album
Great video! As a child of the '80s, I was a heavy Jesus and Mary Chain as well as Ride fan. I always thought JAMC were the quintessential shoegaze band, as they spent much of the concerts I saw with them literally staring at their shoes. Daydream Nation is one of my favorite albums. Gonna have to check into the Nugaze bands.
You missed a big one "Born to be with you" by Dion. Many shoegaze pioneers including Spiritualized's Jason Pierce refer to it as "the first shoegaze album." Also Galaxie 500.
Huge +1 to Sunday Morning being the first of its kind. Also to throw my two cents into the mix, one very niche band that I think was doing great things very very early on was Simply Saucer, out of 1970s Ontario, Canada. Their album Cyborgs Revisited, released years after they split up, is a little gem in that early punk niche when it was all just post-garage psych still.
Punk people loved HD, Metalheads loved HD, mainstream Rock people came to like HD to the end, even amidst the FolkNoir/neoFolk/industrial/militaristic hordes were they respected as raiders of both sonic limits and of everything we'd learnt from the 60s and 70s handling of an electric guitar. There was an imperative brutality resounding on their new songs, in their post-hardcore 2nd phase, especially with and after Metal Circus. HD have huge responsibility for the birth of SG, which, just like the term Goth, is a scam of a journalistic follie, born out of sheer cynicism and professional handicap. I like some of the groups but i refuse the moniker. It's dumb.
@@jasonpeters9716 It is. It's a big album, Copper Blue. But please never overlook Nova Mob's 1991 album The Last days of Pompeii. I guess Copper Blue was an immediate response to Hart's display of talent. The 2 albums shine as echoes of HD's greatness, even for grungy newcomers or the younger generations who were still illiterate when Zen Arcade was playing on national Rock fm stations (for instance, here in PT, António Sérgio was the first to play tracks like Never talking to you again, Chartered trips, Pink turns to blue). Maybe it meant he was guessing where they'd musically roam to, ascertaining the fact the trio indeed possessed a huge talent for making music for a wider slice of audience. ZA is still founded on HC pillars, with a bunch of interesting curios sprinkled all over its dlp vastness. Copper and Pompeii represent Hart and Mould's creative songwriting apex in the 91/92 context. ZA is not even my favourite album (guess the next 2 made it, NDR and FYW), but it sure proved they were US RnR royalty, as free as emulating the MC5 on Turn on the news, or on the long ''Reocurring Dreams'' warped jam session, invoking High Time grooves, where even Sun Ra and proto-Math Metal seem to intertwine. Sorry for the long reply, motivated by your valid statement.
Another band in my opinion which influenced Shoegaze artists and many 90s bands is Wire. Pink flag has some Shoegazey songs to it like the title track. But Chairs Missing and 154 definitely showcase it more prominently. Especially 154. MBV recorded a cover of a song Map Ref, off the album live.
For me the first shoegaze track could be Brian Eno - Here Come The Warm Jets ( closing track on the same titled solo debut by the Eno) released in 1974.
was it called shoegaze because the guitarists were always looking at their shoes as they change pedal tones, volume or distortion etc ?? and where is Lush ? my favorite of the shoegazers.
Great vid! Two tracks that need to be added: “Tomorrow Never Knows” from the Beatles 1966 Revolver. I consider this the first shoegaze record. “Here Come The Warm Jets”. From Eno’s 1974 record. That song is essential
Very interesting and ambitious at the same time, overall a very valuable retrospective of the several ways that lead to the shoegaze sound across decades. Nevertheless, there is an extremely crucial band missing, it's The Chameleons (UK). Their debut album The Script of the Bridge, released 40 years ago, caused such a huge stir, both guitars drowned in chorus+reverb+delay and merging all the time to create dreamy, epic and vast soundscapes, did surely contribute a lot to the refined shoegaze sound as we know it today.
Thank you for sharing that's an excellent list and spot on! One obscure band that's off the radar like many others was one called Shelleyan Orphan, pre shoegaze tunes late '80s I saw them open up for the Cure in 1989 but they never went anywhere
@@StainedGlassStories Love that! I just found you guys through this video. Thanks for all the hard work. Y'all got a new subscriber, and Imma tell my friends about you
I'm always surprised there aren't bands on these sort of lists like The Jimi Hendrix Experience, The Electric Prunes, or other fuzz-heavy psych garage groups. Too bluesy, I guess?
I’ve never seen Black Sabbath mentioned, even tho they’re obviously the first metal band, I’d argue something like war pigs and iron man, as well as the whole masters of reality album contributed to the massive guitar heavy sound
Okay... First "Ocean Rain" by Echo and the Bunnymen - why isn't this on the list? Atmosphere and intense sounds, especially the effect laden guitar(s) of Will Sargeant. Second, "Closer" is I suggest the Joy Division album that has greater claims to shoegaze in that it's tempo is not as hard as UP and the melodies are more apparent. Not arguing, here, just suggesting.
You mentioned the Byrds and the Beach Boys influence. Surprised you didn’t mention The Beatles. They introduced the jangly Rickenbacker 12 string to the rock world in the first place; not to mention the droning Indian music, drug influenced sound and use of the sitar. Listen to Tomorrow Never Knows, Norwegian Wood, She Said She Said, Ticket to Ride, Strawberry Fields, If I Needed Someone, Love You To, And Your Bird Can Sing, etc. Not to mention their brilliant song Rain. Listen to the Revolver album and Rubber Soul.
Agree totally. But I would say they need to be cited by name where particularly relevant, especially as here, when their contemporaries, some of which only exist because of The Beatles (e.g. the Byrds) are cited by name and The Beatles are overlooked. Plus I think many today actually forget how edgy The Beatles could be. They didn’t just write clever and catchy pop rock tunes or ballads like Let it Be or Here Comes the Sun which tends to be what is played on radio or streamed nowadays.
I agree. Their pop textures were denser and more otherworldly than most other bands starting early - as far back as "I Feel Fine". Then stuff like "Rain", "She Said, She Said", "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Strawberry Fields Forever", and even a lot of their regular album cuts had that dense, noisy texture.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned The Stooges yet. Especially their selftitled first album with Ron Asheton's distorted and fuzzy guitar on tracks such as I Wanna Be Your Dog and 1969, or We Will Fall which has that eerie, trance like droning sound to it. Produced of course by the Velvet Underground's master of drone and sound Mr. John Cale. I would also throw his song Gun into the ring, released on his 1974 album Fear, with Phil Manzanera on guitar and Brian Eno working the syntheziser to some astonishing sound effects: ruclips.net/video/uURZiipri54/видео.htmlfeature=shared
The Doors - Strange Days album 1967 had a dreamy aspect that I TOTALLY fell in love with while WAITING around for the genre to properly emerge. Even Siouxxie covered one of the songs on that album... (You're Lost Little Girl)... But the title song "Strange Days" embodies the dream space the most.
Seems like a pretty good list. A few influential singles like "Sally go 'round the roses." by the Jaynettes (1963), "Mind Games" and "No. 9 Dream" by John Lennon (1974), "Are Friends Electric" by Gary Numan(1979), "Life in a Northern Town", by Dream Academy (1985), even "Unalone" by Translator (1983) come to mind, but it's hard to tell who was influenced by what.
I can't believe you didn't include "Painted Bird" from A Kiss in the Dreamhouse, that track is a masterpiece from the beginning to the end like the whole album.
I think The Pixies should be included in your list. They were amazingly experimental, and had a great "wall of sound" sound. If you're going to put Husker Du, Jesus and Mary Chain and Sonic Youth on the list, then you need at least one Pixies album, probably Doolittle. Also... Bauhaus! Great list, lovely video!
@@micsunday14 Thanks! I agree, although I do think that a lot of early goth and post punk stuff, esp. Joy Division and the Cure, had a huge influence on shoegaze. It's hard to pin down all the influences that went into certain genres and sub-genres of music, kind of like trying to figure out a recipe just by tasting the dish, lol.
@@pixelcultmedia4252 I understand that only a certain number of bands could be included, which is why I wasn't being a dick about it, and just giving my lowly opinion.
Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it a lot. I grew up in the 70s and remember my parents listening to an album by Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra. One song, Some Velvet Morning, was so dreamy and shoegaze that Slowdive recorded it decades later.
Lazy Susan (1966) by the 18 year old Bronx genius, Laura Nyro. From the debut album, More than a New Discovery, the greatest ever debut album by a solo artist, honoured in the Grammy Hall of Fame. Nyro influenced Lush and X. Nyro" probably influenced more successful songwriters than anyone " Elton John, 2007. Nyro also introduced gothic chic in pop. For example, see her live performance of Poverty Train at Monterey Pop, June 1967. She also wore witches type hats and dark eye liner. Lazy Susan has a dark gothic mood.
Glad to hear someone give a shout-out to Laura Nyro here. Todd Rundgren is often lauded (justly, of course) for his influences in songwriting and record production but guess who influenced TR? Unbelievable what Laura accomplished and at such a young age.
I really like this, I own most of these albums, but that is because I love "rock" and that is the only "label" needed, post punk, grunge, math rock, shoegaze, whatever...it's just rock, I understand the need to belong, and I don't like ALL rock. I am sick of categorising anything, and everything! I'll shut up now
Hi all, I want to address why a few albums weren't on this list. Here are some albums we consider among the first shoegaze releases and will be appearing in a subsequent video. We are working on a follow up video- The Golden Age of Shoegaze (1988-1993): - Loop - Fade Out (1988) - A.R. Kane - 69 (1988) - Spacemen 3 - Playing With Fire (1989) - Galaxie 500 - On Fire (1989) - Kitchens of Distinction - Strange Free World (1991)
great list. and there's probably a lot more influences, but I find that there's one band that's never mentionned and should be which is The Pastels. What do you think ?
@@s3lfFish Thank you! I could see that. To be completely honest, I'm not too familiar with their music. But, from what I've heard, it sounds like their jangly sound could have been an influence for groups like Ride or Ecstasy-era MBV.
This was really well done! Many surprises in choices as you framed the underpinnings and inspiration for Shoegaze. I'm sure everyone had some ideas for what could have been in your list so here's mine: See My Friends by the Kinks, Tomorrow Never Knows/ Blue Jay Way/ Helter Skelter/ Within You Without You by The Beatles, many songs by the Doors, The Original Sin by Cowboys International, some songs on Days in Europa by the Skids. Some that were maybe major oversights were Echo & the Bunnymen and the Stone Roses. Some of Bowie in the 70s like Heroes, Low, Lodger, Scary Monsters all had elements of SG sound and textures. Your choices were solid and provoked a lot of thought!
I think both "Chairs Missing" (1978) and "154"(1979) by Wire should be considered proto-Shoegaze albums.. Lots of art rock spaciness and angsty guitars/vocals combined in short punchy songs and ( on 154 )a few long ones like "A Touching Display"... "The 15th" or "French Film Blurred" are both like Dream Pop classics decades before the term was in use..
Spacemen 3 is the most glaring omission. Neil Halstead said in an interview he would go and see them live as a teen and was blown away. Another omission is Loop. All I Wanna Do is a special song that always seems to sound ahead of it's time--such a heartful production and lyric. It's one of my favorite songs of my entire life.
Glad you mentioned the Swirlies. Saw them in a small club in Seattle years ago. LOVED them. Tragically underrated band. Reminded me of Barrett -era Pink Floyd. Densely textured blankets of audio mayhem and mischief. Unforgettable. Thanks Swirlies.
Byrds definitely shoegazey. Lots of music of 60s psychedelia very gazey. Bands like Gong, even Hawkwind. The Doors too. I'd also include the eponymous first album by Dead Can Dance and other early material by them (like In Power We Entrust the Love Advocated)... I'd mention even Einstürzende Neubauten for their early droning, ambient textures; how about Brian Eno's songs and sounds? Early Kraftwerk too. Can also, who would play repetitive, trancey rock. Faust. The 80s band Opal (which became Mazzy Star) has dreamy songs...as for The Cure, their album Faith feels more shoegaze than Pornography... Someone mentioned Loop and Spacemen 3, totally second that, these bands were a psychedelic rock revival of late 80s - and the music compels you to stare down at your shoes for sure - or dance. I'd say...just because the holy trinity of shoegaze refers to a particular band or sound as influential to them doesn't mean that previous band is in any way shoegaze or proto-shoegaze. MBV probably love Black Sabbath too.
Hawkwind is a good one, especially since the interest was largely in the textures rather than anything interesting happening. I love Opal. I never saw them as particularly shoegaze, because the guitar was kind of linear, but now that I think about it, the keyboard hook from "Supernova" could be a MBV guitar hook. The question is whether anyone even heard Opal.
@VinylandKicks86 There's always some subjectivity in drawing the line between proto-shoegaze and shoegaze. We consider groups like Spacemen 3, A.R. Kane, and Loop among the first shoegaze groups. They'll be discussed in a future video.
Yeah, spacemen 3 were definitely in that category, I still listen to the 1987 classic, and walking with Jesus is just an excellent record. Love spiritualized also, Jason pierce is one hell of an artist as is sonic. They created great music. Taking drugs to make music to take drugs. Lol brilliant
Loved the video, but you managed to pass aside a band, which was as shoegaze as one can be from the very beginning, still in 1978: The Passions. I kindly suggest you listen to "I'm in love with a German film star". Whatever influences they had, they were solidly shoegaze.
The Primary Colours by The Horrors is my favorite album of the '00s. It's the perfect combination of Shoegaze and Post Punk. Geoff Barrow's production really made the difference.
It's was really of a surprise including the Beach Boys. I.ve been a fan of them since 1975, and "All I Wanna Do" is one of my favorite songs of theirs. I never thought it would be an influence 50 years after it's release!
I put together a shoegaze band (Grist, San Francisco, CA) in the early 90's (right after seeing Lush play in Union Square), and this is the first time I've seen anyone cite psychedelic-era Beach Boys as an influence on the genre. Thank you for doing so! And I can vouch for that at least in my case (well, Lush themselves covered a Dennis Wilson song on a b side). Carl Wilson is of course almost completely overshadowed by his more famous brother as a producer, but when I was a pre-teen, "All I Wanna Do," "Feel Flows," and "Long Promised Road" blew my musical mind. They still do, I'm still chasing the vibe of those songs! All dream pop, all produced (and entirely played, in the case of "Feel Flows") by Carl. Brian's own "'Til I Die" slots in there, too. Other than the artists in this video, we were also WAY into Neil Young's Rust Never Sleeps/Live Rust, especially Neil's guitar tone. Pixies were big contributors to our musical DNA, too. If someone had asked me to boil it down to its essence, though, I would have said I wanted to sound like Sonic Youth but in standard tuning.
thanks homie! we hope it doesn't come across too argumentative, it's just music opinions after all. But we do try to back it up even if we can't cover everything!
I would like to throw in Robert Fripp’s guitar sound in David Bowie’s "Heroes” as a foundational moment in the development of shoegaze.
Velvet Underground is an unsung influence on shoe gaze (“There wasn’t many people that listened to The Velvet Underground, but those that did started bands” - Brian Eno ) Edit: The Velvet Underground was indeed mentioned at 3:50 my bad ☺️
It's A Mystery by Toyah also influenced shoegaze. As did Seven Tears by the Goombay Dance Band.
Absolutely
Yeah, well spotted!
You could also throw in a Steve Hackett solo, or two, from early Genesis, and beyond.
Been highlighting "All I Wanna Do" as an early shoegaze song for years now. Love that.
100% spot on
Yeah that’s good stuff.
Curve is one of my all time favorite shoegaze bands- hope they get a mention in your follow-up video. Dean Garcia's wall of guitar distortion married with Toni Halliday's haunting vocals. The result is mesmerizing...
As an old GenXer who went thru late 80s, early nineties show gaze, it makes me really happy that it's been kept alive by a new generation of fans.
I don't recall shoegaze being a term back then, and I was into a lot of weird music.
@@AGHORNATH18 it was a derogatory term used by the english music press around the time of madchester. It was only later the term got co-opted to mean a particular genre.
There is so much good music out now. I still go to concerts like I did as a teenager in the 90’s!
@@_benjimouse_Agreed. I think the mainstream were irked by drone / proto SG getting in the way of the intended all dominant Britpop. Most of which owes its fame to the deep state.
Great list with some worthy arguments made, I think Wire’s Chairs Missing and 154 deserve a mention and were influential on a lot of late 80s/ early 90s shoegaze artists especially songs like The 15th. I’d also nominate The Chameleons Script of the Bridge and Kitchen of Distinction’s Love Is Hell
glad to see the chameleons mentioned, they‘re amazing
What about durutti column? Their music sounds very dream poppy imo
Yes indeed friend. Check out my favorite Dif Juz!
In the 93 I was 18 and a senior and always loved grunge. As a 49 middle aged rocker….I love shoegaze. Glad you mentioned Joy Division. They’re one of my favorite bands of all time.
I love early shoegaze, but this is just an amazing list of music.
I also particularly love Husker Du’s cover of the Byrds’ “8 Miles High” and Dinosaur Jr’s cover of The Cure’s “Just Like Heaven.” I’m not super into covers in general, but I think they both develop something unique with the material, like a well done jazz standard.
I’m happy kids are finding all of these treasures like I did 30 years ago. God I’m old.
Really glad that the Ronettes, Beach Boys, and Byrds were mentioned! For my ears, it’s hard to beat that jangly 12-string sound the Byrds were exploring in psychedelia.
Even the JAMC would say they were a big influence. Wall of Sound. They did a cover Surfing USA
Eight Miles High is one of the songs I remember my dad playing early in life. The Byrds are a band I heard a lot.
The Ronettes? I don’t think so.
Thanks to The Beatles and George Harrison’s Rickenbacker 360/12 - not to mention the sitar.
Can’t forget Big Black’s notched sheet metal guitar pick sound making a cheap old six string sound like a shattered mess of wires and razors. No less dreamy, just more of the nightmare sort.
This is a very insightful video. You know your stuff. Well researched, I think. Some pre shoegaze and dream pop could be Dream Syndicate’s When It’s Over, early Butthole Surfers, an obscure 60s band named HP Lovecraft did some wonderful, ethereal albums, Psychic TV’s cover of Good Vibrations, Fifty Foot Hose, from the 60s, insane stuff…some of the Fugs songs like CIA Man, MC5, Great Society Sally Go Round the Roses, Love’s Seven and Seven is, and Little Red Book, East West by Paul Butterfield, Omaha by Moby Grape. Damn, isn’t Shoegaze a sub genre of Neo Psychedelia?
I dunno if it's a subgenre, but the evolutionary ties are there
psychedelic rock, surely is a foundation. You're onto something with HP Lovecraft.... at the mountains of madness... or a Moody Blues Trip..
how about County Joe and the Fish with Section 43? on the new stp at monterey.. ruclips.net/video/41q4p0UyZAA/видео.html
Yes except the intro implies Verve the jazz label and the band are related; they are not. Ism did a great cover of "CIA Man."
Good list. I think there's a subtle difference between "sounds a bit like" and "influenced" shoegaze. It's worth recalling that by about 1989 most of the foundations were there - 60s bubblegum, Velvets, Sonic Youth, Cocteaus, Paisley Underground - but it was incredibly varied in terms of influencing musicians, and let's face it people made shit up to seem cool when they were talking to NME or Melody Maker. Except Adam Franklin, who is just cool anyway. By 1989 a lot of indie acts were doing world tours (Sonic Youth, Mudhoney, Dinosaur) which set off a whole new wave of guitar/gaze experimentation, not least because LPs were expensive, music news was slow, MTV didn't exist, so late teens like me had to make do. We did ok.
Yes to Paisley Underground band Dream Syndicate first album. Totally.
MTV existed in 1989
@@cordeliamaintenance6418 true, but not where I grew up.
@@mxvega1097 fair
I would add Kitchens of Distinction - Strange Free World
Kitchens of Distinction are criminally underrated.
If you want girl group music that is a precursor to shoegaze, you have to check out the Jaynetts, "Sally Go Round the Roses." It has very melodic, super-repetitive, chanting vocals that were recorded with layers and layers on top of each other. It's like a missing link between 60s girl group & drone & dream pop. I also love their song, "Snowman, Snowman, Sweet Potato Nose." It's like a repetitive, chanting shoegaze Christmas carol.
Sally Go Round the Roses is awesome. There's a great cover version by Pentagle too. The Jaynetts version definetly belongs on a roots of Shoegaze mixtape.
Thanks for bringing up that song. Wasn't sure who the artists were. So haunting 💫
The day it surpassed "Be My Baby" - ruclips.net/video/POwIuMLQe2A/видео.htmlsi=ZCdUSnTU5KaEmVdd&t=18
Amazing music, I never heard them before. But they're not a precursor to shoegaze. They're clearly riffing off of what the Ronettes did but they didn't innovate the sound in any way to make them a precursor to or an inspiration for Shoegaze. They're just another (out of thousands) of players from that period who were trying to capture that Phil Spector sound.
@@basskick666 An other great version by The Great Society (Grace Slick's first band).
Really fun and thought-provoking. As I was watching, I couldn’t help thinking of Bowie’s ‘Heroes’ with Brian Eno, John Lennon’s ‘#9 Dream’ and Bauhaus’ ‘Third Uncle’ would fit well between The Beach Boys and Joy Division.
Definitely Lennon’s “#9 Dream” paved a way for both Dream Pop and Shoegaze
"Third Uncle" is a cover though, it's originally a Brian Eno track.
Yes, it’s the Eno version I had in mind, but for some reason, I typed ‘Bauhaus.’ Thanks for pointing this out.
Diamond Head by Phil Manzanera. The version on 801 Live w Eno is phenomenal.
All I wanna do - The Beach Boys
The Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" is also considered a mainstay of shoegazing. Kevin Shields himself confirmed that "Loveless" was released on Mono in honor of this album
Great video! As a child of the '80s, I was a heavy Jesus and Mary Chain as well as Ride fan. I always thought JAMC were the quintessential shoegaze band, as they spent much of the concerts I saw with them literally staring at their shoes. Daydream Nation is one of my favorite albums. Gonna have to check into the Nugaze bands.
Agreed - early SY (and even later) ventured into that 'hypnotic' and 'trance' type music. JAMC also did a similar thing
Do you remember Urusei Yatsura ??
Check out Whirr they’re the best nugaze band
I love this video, very well done. but I am surprised that The Chameleons were not mentioned.
OMG- LOVE The Chameleons
Great video! Loved it! I would have included The Chameleons, but that's okay! No one else ever does neither!
View From A Hill is an early 'shoegaze' song. Slowdive are fans,
Absolutely!
Nice list. I didn't know about "A Primary Industry". I think maybe also some Brian Eno songs and a couple of "krautrock" songs could fit in here.
I can draw a line from Amon Düül II and Can to Shoegaze. Probably drive it through Hawkwind’s early work, too.
You missed a big one "Born to be with you" by Dion. Many shoegaze pioneers including Spiritualized's Jason Pierce refer to it as "the first shoegaze album."
Also Galaxie 500.
interesting you mentioned jason pierce. i thought spacemen 3 should’ve been on here
Good job but “Galaxie 500” should be in there. Leaves a big gap.
Thank you. Galaxie 500 will be in the next video.
Tricky to choose just 12 but The Beatles Revolver was undoubtedly a huge influence
Great work though - don’t disagree with anything here!
Right, especially "Tomorrow Never Knows". It amazes even today.
Nice Buzzcocks reference!
Huge +1 to Sunday Morning being the first of its kind.
Also to throw my two cents into the mix, one very niche band that I think was doing great things very very early on was Simply Saucer, out of 1970s Ontario, Canada. Their album Cyborgs Revisited, released years after they split up, is a little gem in that early punk niche when it was all just post-garage psych still.
guys go give it a listen to the 1968 song "o relógio" by os mutantes
Zen Arcade is an extraordinary LP. I think its biggest connection to Shoegaze, is mainly cos loads of shoegazers loved Husker Du.
Punk people loved HD, Metalheads loved HD, mainstream Rock people came to like HD to the end, even amidst the FolkNoir/neoFolk/industrial/militaristic hordes were they respected as raiders of both sonic limits and of everything we'd learnt from the 60s and 70s handling of an electric guitar. There was an imperative brutality resounding on their new songs, in their post-hardcore 2nd phase, especially with and after Metal Circus.
HD have huge responsibility for the birth of SG, which, just like the term Goth, is a scam of a journalistic follie, born out of sheer cynicism and professional handicap. I like some of the groups but i refuse the moniker. It's dumb.
Sugar/"Blue Copper?" 1992 album by Mould's Early 90s side band is as good or better than ANY album by Husker Du
@@jasonpeters9716 It is. It's a big album, Copper Blue. But please never overlook Nova Mob's 1991 album The Last days of Pompeii. I guess Copper Blue was an immediate response to Hart's display of talent. The 2 albums shine as echoes of HD's greatness, even for grungy newcomers or the younger generations who were still illiterate when Zen Arcade was playing on national Rock fm stations (for instance, here in PT, António Sérgio was the first to play tracks like Never talking to you again, Chartered trips, Pink turns to blue). Maybe it meant he was guessing where they'd musically roam to, ascertaining the fact the trio indeed possessed a huge talent for making music for a wider slice of audience. ZA is still founded on HC pillars, with a bunch of interesting curios sprinkled all over its dlp vastness. Copper and Pompeii represent Hart and Mould's creative songwriting apex in the 91/92 context. ZA is not even my favourite album (guess the next 2 made it, NDR and FYW), but it sure proved they were US RnR royalty, as free as emulating the MC5 on Turn on the news, or on the long ''Reocurring Dreams'' warped jam session, invoking High Time grooves, where even Sun Ra and proto-Math Metal seem to intertwine. Sorry for the long reply, motivated by your valid statement.
@@karllux-d6g Sorry
."Copper Blue"
Another band in my opinion which influenced Shoegaze artists and many 90s bands is Wire. Pink flag has some Shoegazey songs to it like the title track. But Chairs Missing and 154 definitely showcase it more prominently. Especially 154. MBV recorded a cover of a song Map Ref, off the album live.
Saw Wire in the late 80's in Los Angeles, incredible band. Not sure about shoe gaze though?
@@Mr.Steve-O the influence they had crossed over to Shoegaze. MBV covered the song Map Ref.
@@manhattenman6075 and Lush covered Outdoor Miner, which is in fact textbook shoegaze with those ethereal melodies and harmonies...oh my what a song.
Try "Valley of the Saroos" by Joe Meek from 1959
For me the first shoegaze track could be Brian Eno - Here Come The Warm Jets ( closing track on the same titled solo debut by the Eno) released in 1974.
Although, the band Lush would have been an excellent example of shoegaze music especially the Gala album
I can’t believe Pink Floyd gets no mention.
So many great examples. Far too many to list, in one video. Procol Harum ,The Zombies, The Animals. It's never-ending.
was it called shoegaze because the guitarists were always looking at their shoes as they change pedal tones, volume or distortion etc ?? and where is Lush ? my favorite of the shoegazers.
yes- a combination of shyness/stage fright and looking at pedalboards
@@lestranged Yes many shoegazers seem shy, luckily Miki came out of her shell quickly with Lush and seemed to enjoy performing live.
Great vid! Two tracks that need to be added:
“Tomorrow Never Knows” from the Beatles 1966 Revolver. I consider this the first shoegaze record.
“Here Come The Warm Jets”. From Eno’s 1974 record. That song is essential
Yes on Tomorrow Never Knows! Good call on Eno, too! Big influence on drone vibe.
Agree
no wonder i liked that one so much lol. has ended by thom york is another one
Yes. Yes. Yes. Brian Eno's Here Come The Warm Jets. Robert Fripp on Baby's On Fire. What a track.
Very interesting and ambitious at the same time, overall a very valuable retrospective of the several ways that lead to the shoegaze sound across decades. Nevertheless, there is an extremely crucial band missing, it's The Chameleons (UK).
Their debut album The Script of the Bridge, released 40 years ago, caused such a huge stir, both guitars drowned in chorus+reverb+delay and merging all the time to create dreamy, epic and vast soundscapes, did surely contribute a lot to the refined shoegaze sound as we know it today.
You hit it hard. Thanks for the memories. I am old. My inspiration was Skinny Puppy.
Rock on! Thanks for watching.
I saw Skinny Puppy with Type-O-Negative, Ministry, and Godflesh.
the beatles it's all too much reminds me of shoegaze
the only thing i would definitely add is brian eno before and after science! love your picks 🖤
Consider the first side (everything up through King's Lead Hat) as "Before" and Everything After as "After."
Thank you for sharing that's an excellent list and spot on! One obscure band that's off the radar like many others was one called Shelleyan Orphan, pre shoegaze tunes late '80s I saw them open up for the Cure in 1989 but they never went anywhere
Shelleyan Orphan, yes, brilliant band ,2 lps & maybe too much personality to be 'pidgeonholed' & filed under such a stupid term as 'shoegaze'!
LOOP and Spaceman 3 should have been on a the list, because they both contributed to the shoegaze genre with psych/drone rockin my opinion
We actually consider Loop and Spacemen 3 two of the first shoegaze groups, rather than proto-graze. They'll both be appearing in our next video!
Yay! Seeing Husker Du on this list made my day. Hopefully someone went off and listened to Zen Arcade after they saw this.
I hope so too! We wanted to do our Husker Du diligence in giving them the credit they deserve.
@@StainedGlassStories Love that! I just found you guys through this video. Thanks for all the hard work. Y'all got a new subscriber, and Imma tell my friends about you
All I wanna do by The Beach Boys was ground breaking not to mention how good the song was in addition to its production techniques
I'm always surprised there aren't bands on these sort of lists like The Jimi Hendrix Experience, The Electric Prunes, or other fuzz-heavy psych garage groups. Too bluesy, I guess?
I’ve never seen Black Sabbath mentioned, even tho they’re obviously the first metal band, I’d argue something like war pigs and iron man, as well as the whole masters of reality album contributed to the massive guitar heavy sound
Electric Prunes for sure! "Onie"!! And let's not forget the Creation's "How does it feel to feel"
Glad to see the mention of Daydream Nation. Favourite record of all time.
Okay... First "Ocean Rain" by Echo and the Bunnymen - why isn't this on the list? Atmosphere and intense sounds, especially the effect laden guitar(s) of Will Sargeant. Second, "Closer" is I suggest the Joy Division album that has greater claims to shoegaze in that it's tempo is not as hard as UP and the melodies are more apparent. Not arguing, here, just suggesting.
Les rallizes denudes!! Imo they predicted the shoegaze sound 3 decades before everyone
You mentioned the Byrds and the Beach Boys influence. Surprised you didn’t mention The Beatles. They introduced the jangly Rickenbacker 12 string to the rock world in the first place; not to mention the droning Indian music, drug influenced sound and use of the sitar. Listen to Tomorrow Never Knows, Norwegian Wood, She Said She Said, Ticket to Ride, Strawberry Fields, If I Needed Someone, Love You To, And Your Bird Can Sing, etc. Not to mention their brilliant song Rain. Listen to the Revolver album and Rubber Soul.
Agree totally. But I would say they need to be cited by name where particularly relevant, especially as here, when their contemporaries, some of which only exist because of The Beatles (e.g. the Byrds) are cited by name and The Beatles are overlooked. Plus I think many today actually forget how edgy The Beatles could be. They didn’t just write clever and catchy pop rock tunes or ballads like Let it Be or Here Comes the Sun which tends to be what is played on radio or streamed nowadays.
I agree. Their pop textures were denser and more otherworldly than most other bands starting early - as far back as "I Feel Fine". Then stuff like "Rain", "She Said, She Said", "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Strawberry Fields Forever", and even a lot of their regular album cuts had that dense, noisy texture.
The first three Love and Rockets albums.
and the low selling 90's albums like Hot Trip To Heaven delve into shoegaze ( as well as electronica, but still featuring guitars)
As someone who was there at peak UK 1989/90 Shoegaze this is dope! But Daydream Nation was always it as a 16yr old me ❤️
So happy to hear that! I adore that album
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned The Stooges yet. Especially their selftitled first album with Ron Asheton's distorted and fuzzy guitar on tracks such as I Wanna Be Your Dog and 1969, or We Will Fall which has that eerie, trance like droning sound to it. Produced of course by the Velvet Underground's master of drone and sound Mr. John Cale. I would also throw his song Gun into the ring, released on his 1974 album Fear, with Phil Manzanera on guitar and Brian Eno working the syntheziser to some astonishing sound effects: ruclips.net/video/uURZiipri54/видео.htmlfeature=shared
The Doors - Strange Days album 1967 had a dreamy aspect that I TOTALLY fell in love with while WAITING around for the genre to properly emerge. Even Siouxxie covered one of the songs on that album... (You're Lost Little Girl)... But the title song "Strange Days" embodies the dream space the most.
Lee Hazlewood & Nancy Sinatra
The Beatles "She Said, She Said" off Revolver is absolutely a proto-shoegaze song to me.
Seems like a pretty good list. A few influential singles like "Sally go 'round the roses." by the Jaynettes (1963), "Mind Games" and "No. 9 Dream" by John Lennon (1974), "Are Friends Electric" by Gary Numan(1979), "Life in a Northern Town", by Dream Academy (1985), even "Unalone" by Translator (1983) come to mind, but it's hard to tell who was influenced by what.
Ultra Vivid Scene’s Mercy Seat released in 1988 I think deserves a mention.
They will be appearing in our Golden Age of Shoegaze video (1988-1993).
I can't believe you didn't include "Painted Bird" from A Kiss in the Dreamhouse, that track is a masterpiece from the beginning to the end like the whole album.
I thought the exact same thing.. John McGeoch's guitar work on that album - and that song in particular is definitely protoGaze!
I think The Pixies should be included in your list. They were amazingly experimental, and had a great "wall of sound" sound. If you're going to put Husker Du, Jesus and Mary Chain and Sonic Youth on the list, then you need at least one Pixies album, probably Doolittle.
Also... Bauhaus!
Great list, lovely video!
Yep definitely pixies. Less goth stuff. More pixies+sonic youth
It's not a contest and they couldn't include everyone who ever utilized natural reverb.
@@micsunday14 Thanks! I agree, although I do think that a lot of early goth and post punk stuff, esp. Joy Division and the Cure, had a huge influence on shoegaze.
It's hard to pin down all the influences that went into certain genres and sub-genres of music, kind of like trying to figure out a recipe just by tasting the dish, lol.
@@pixelcultmedia4252 I understand that only a certain number of bands could be included, which is why I wasn't being a dick about it, and just giving my lowly opinion.
@@pixelcultmedia4252 No, it's not a contest, but including Pixies would have made the list seem less devolutionary.
Not mentioning Faust IV is fucking ridiculous
Shoegaze rolled Into the early 90's Blur(Leisure) Lush Lightning Seeds etc
Lush was great.
I'd argue that The Teddy Bears - Don't You Worry My Little Pet (1958) or even The Silva-Tones - That's All I Want from You (1957) are proto-shoegaze
I’d include “Walk Away Renee” and The Kinks “Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround” album, which includes some brilliant shoegaze moments.
The Porpoise Song by the Monkees and Sun King by The Beatles would also seem to be candidates?
Sonic Boom, spaceman 3
Spiritualized. ?
Spaceman 3 will be the next video, as likely will Spiritualized.
Jesus and Mary Chain aren't shoegaze influencers, the genre was literally named for them by a music critic describing their show.
Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it a lot. I grew up in the 70s and remember my parents listening to an album by Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra. One song, Some Velvet Morning, was so dreamy and shoegaze that Slowdive recorded it decades later.
Lazy Susan (1966) by the 18 year old Bronx genius, Laura Nyro. From the debut album, More than a New Discovery, the greatest ever debut album by a solo artist, honoured in the Grammy Hall of Fame. Nyro influenced Lush and X. Nyro" probably influenced more successful songwriters than anyone " Elton John, 2007. Nyro also introduced gothic chic in pop. For example, see her live performance of Poverty Train at Monterey Pop, June 1967. She also wore witches type hats and dark eye liner. Lazy Susan has a dark gothic mood.
Glad to hear someone give a shout-out to Laura Nyro here. Todd Rundgren is often lauded (justly, of course) for his influences in songwriting and record production but guess who influenced TR? Unbelievable what Laura accomplished and at such a young age.
@@deirdre108 Yep, truly remarkable. Cheers.
Laura Nyro entire catalog is pure gold. Glad someone mentioned her
@@deirdre108Laura asked Todd to be her bsnd leader. Todd rundgren could have made this list too
I really like this, I own most of these albums, but that is because I love "rock" and that is the only "label" needed, post punk, grunge, math rock, shoegaze, whatever...it's just rock, I understand the need to belong, and I don't like ALL rock. I am sick of categorising anything, and everything! I'll shut up now
I like rock too. Tons of it!
Hi all, I want to address why a few albums weren't on this list. Here are some albums we consider among the first shoegaze releases and will be appearing in a subsequent video. We are working on a follow up video- The Golden Age of Shoegaze (1988-1993):
- Loop - Fade Out (1988)
- A.R. Kane - 69 (1988)
- Spacemen 3 - Playing With Fire (1989)
- Galaxie 500 - On Fire (1989)
- Kitchens of Distinction - Strange Free World (1991)
great list. and there's probably a lot more influences, but I find that there's one band that's never mentionned and should be which is The Pastels. What do you think ?
@@s3lfFish Thank you! I could see that. To be completely honest, I'm not too familiar with their music. But, from what I've heard, it sounds like their jangly sound could have been an influence for groups like Ride or Ecstasy-era MBV.
@@s3lfFish Pastels are C86, lo-fi or Twee
@@Iggytommy to me they sound proto shoegaze, "Baby you're just you", for instance.
@@s3lfFish was The Pastels's sound ever heavy enough to be proto-shoegaze?
Sparklehorse, Red House Painters, Dif Juz, Pale Saints, Lush, Swervedriver, House of Love, Ultra vivid Scene, or even House of Love.
This was really well done! Many surprises in choices as you framed the underpinnings and inspiration for Shoegaze. I'm sure everyone had some ideas for what could have been in your list so here's mine: See My Friends by the Kinks, Tomorrow Never Knows/ Blue Jay Way/ Helter Skelter/ Within You Without You by The Beatles, many songs by the Doors, The Original Sin by Cowboys International, some songs on Days in Europa by the Skids. Some that were maybe major oversights were Echo & the Bunnymen and the Stone Roses. Some of Bowie in the 70s like Heroes, Low, Lodger, Scary Monsters all had elements of SG sound and textures. Your choices were solid and provoked a lot of thought!
Joe Meek should of got a shout out. His recording sounds and techniques probably influenced most of the bands on the list.
would The Church Seance from Oz in 83, be a type of shoe gaze?
Bit of a jump from Beach Boys to Joy Division. I would insert mid-70s Bowie and Ramones in there.
I think both "Chairs Missing" (1978) and "154"(1979) by Wire should be considered proto-Shoegaze albums.. Lots of art rock spaciness and angsty guitars/vocals combined in short punchy songs and ( on 154 )a few long ones like "A Touching Display"...
"The 15th" or "French Film Blurred" are both like Dream Pop classics decades before the term was in use..
Map Ref is definitely a proto-shoegaze song and Wire was covered by Lush
Never heard it called show gaze before.
Spacemen 3 is the most glaring omission. Neil Halstead said in an interview he would go and see them live as a teen and was blown away. Another omission is Loop. All I Wanna Do is a special song that always seems to sound ahead of it's time--such a heartful production and lyric. It's one of my favorite songs of my entire life.
Agreed.
Moon-based. I'd even say ''...THE...'' . And maybe GPO with PTV 2 and 3, on their more poppier and less ritualistic moments.
Lush “Gala”
Glad you mentioned the Swirlies. Saw them in a small club in Seattle years ago. LOVED them. Tragically underrated band. Reminded me of Barrett -era Pink Floyd. Densely textured blankets of audio mayhem and mischief. Unforgettable. Thanks Swirlies.
It’s “RON-ettes”, not “runettes”.
Queen - She makes me So. Hidden away at the end of 'Sheer Heart Attack', and about a decade ahead of its time.
Thurston was an early Shoegazer
Byrds definitely shoegazey. Lots of music of 60s psychedelia very gazey. Bands like Gong, even Hawkwind. The Doors too.
I'd also include the eponymous first album by Dead Can Dance and other early material by them (like In Power We Entrust the Love Advocated)...
I'd mention even Einstürzende Neubauten for their early droning, ambient textures; how about Brian Eno's songs and sounds? Early Kraftwerk too. Can also, who would play repetitive, trancey rock. Faust. The 80s band Opal (which became Mazzy Star) has dreamy songs...as for The Cure, their album Faith feels more shoegaze than Pornography...
Someone mentioned Loop and Spacemen 3, totally second that, these bands were a psychedelic rock revival of late 80s - and the music compels you to stare down at your shoes for sure - or dance.
I'd say...just because the holy trinity of shoegaze refers to a particular band or sound as influential to them doesn't mean that previous band is in any way shoegaze or proto-shoegaze. MBV probably love Black Sabbath too.
Hawkwind is a good one, especially since the interest was largely in the textures rather than anything interesting happening. I love Opal. I never saw them as particularly shoegaze, because the guitar was kind of linear, but now that I think about it, the keyboard hook from "Supernova" could be a MBV guitar hook. The question is whether anyone even heard Opal.
I can't believe you didn't include Spacemen 3. They were a big influence on MBV's shoegaze sound.
yeah they really should've been mentioned.
Yes and then also 13th Floor Elevators
the person who makes these vids doesn’t know wtf they’re talking about
@VinylandKicks86 There's always some subjectivity in drawing the line between proto-shoegaze and shoegaze. We consider groups like Spacemen 3, A.R. Kane, and Loop among the first shoegaze groups. They'll be discussed in a future video.
Yeah, spacemen 3 were definitely in that category, I still listen to the 1987 classic, and walking with Jesus is just an excellent record. Love spiritualized also, Jason pierce is one hell of an artist as is sonic. They created great music. Taking drugs to make music to take drugs. Lol brilliant
I love videos like this. Thanks for all the work that went into it👌
Thank you so much! We loved making this :)
what a homie! comments like this keep us going :')
Loved the video, but you managed to pass aside a band, which was as shoegaze as one can be from the very beginning, still in 1978: The Passions. I kindly suggest you listen to "I'm in love with a German film star". Whatever influences they had, they were solidly shoegaze.
I had never heard the term Shoegaze until I came across your video. Interesting. Thank you for the information.
I'd like to add Lush to the list. Also interesting to see A.R Kane pop up as they were part of Maaars who did pump up the volume.
The Primary Colours by The Horrors is my favorite album of the '00s. It's the perfect combination of Shoegaze and Post Punk. Geoff Barrow's production really made the difference.
Not so obvious, but I would add David Bowie's Low, Nico's The Marble Index and, mainly, Desertshore a and the "class of 86" as a whole
It's was really of a surprise including the Beach Boys. I.ve been a fan of them since 1975, and "All I Wanna Do" is one of my favorite songs of theirs. I never thought it would be an influence 50 years after it's release!
Syd Barrett, Piper at the Gates of Dawn, specifically, Astromomy Domine and Interstellar Overdrive..
I would include wings by the fall, that song sounds very shoegazey
The Beach Boys? Yes, The Beach Boys. Mind. Blown.
I was waiting for "The Porpoise Song" ( Carol King, The Monkees, Trouble, etc.
i swear echoes by pink floyd is shoegaze
Hi, Only Shoegaze! What's up? 😋😋😋
Hi friend! :)
I put together a shoegaze band (Grist, San Francisco, CA) in the early 90's (right after seeing Lush play in Union Square), and this is the first time I've seen anyone cite psychedelic-era Beach Boys as an influence on the genre. Thank you for doing so! And I can vouch for that at least in my case (well, Lush themselves covered a Dennis Wilson song on a b side). Carl Wilson is of course almost completely overshadowed by his more famous brother as a producer, but when I was a pre-teen, "All I Wanna Do," "Feel Flows," and "Long Promised Road" blew my musical mind. They still do, I'm still chasing the vibe of those songs! All dream pop, all produced (and entirely played, in the case of "Feel Flows") by Carl. Brian's own "'Til I Die" slots in there, too. Other than the artists in this video, we were also WAY into Neil Young's Rust Never Sleeps/Live Rust, especially Neil's guitar tone. Pixies were big contributors to our musical DNA, too. If someone had asked me to boil it down to its essence, though, I would have said I wanted to sound like Sonic Youth but in standard tuning.
I would like to mention bands like Lush, and The Sundays. Loved listening to them in the early 90s.
After reading the comments I see they have already been mentioned. Nevermind.
The Sundays anyone??????
Kitchens of Distinction 'Quick as Rainbows'
Kitchens of Distinction will be in the next video.
@@StainedGlassStories nice man, definitely an under appreciated band
This was really enjoyable and well argued. I appreciate you guys looking back farther. Look forward to more.❤
thanks homie! we hope it doesn't come across too argumentative, it's just music opinions after all. But we do try to back it up even if we can't cover everything!
Ronettes as in the name Ron , not runettes .