SOURCES USED: (The academic journals used are free to download in PDF) repositories.lib.utexas.edu/handle/2152/62914 (Gender Inequality in Esports Participation: Examining League of Legends) journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1555412014567228 (Stand by Your Man: An Examination of Gender Disparity in League of Legends ) ruclips.net/video/deZMsDYYpJY/видео.html (PROfiles: Se-Yeon "Geguri" Kim | Overwatch League Player Profile) ruclips.net/video/cAJW1DdufGs/видео.html (Women in Esports w/ Sjokz l EUphoria Season 3 Episode 5 ) On a final note, All criticisms/opinions are related to Vaevictis as an ORGANIZATION. These should not be taken as attacks on the individual players unless I specifically mentioned their names.
@@imclueless9875 God damnit Females, if you're too quick, they complain, if you take too long, they complain. I wouldn't know the second part, but second hand stories have taught me that. Can't make up their minds
@Theant19 Not really, they like guys like him, just not LOOKING like him. The more you see a White Knight polish his armor, the more he hides his pizza face behind the helm.
female or not..5 support diamond players vs master-challenger pro teams that had at least a year to practice. the ppl who gave this a green light should be in trouble
The people who green lit this is literally society. Lifting up women to make them feel like they are equal or even superior to men when in most endeavors they are not.
@@TheBornnaked well as you can see society coddles women like children and the results are stupid that sane women just look at this as a dumb stunt. They should have put better players instead of this sorry execuse
@@thefrunter4596 I guess your mom is proud of you... The gender is not important in any kind of skill level. It's about making gender, which leads to stereotypes. But I assume you didn't even watched that video, else you would know that.
Freundlicher Mensch if this guy is serious he’s dumb, if he’s not (which is very likely) he’s obviously looking for a reaction Basically, you took the bait lmao
@@YuenQestir He showed a study title and told you what was in it. First red flag. Study sample? Qualitative:15 participants. Quantitative: 16821 participants. Joke numbers, second red flag. Study authors? Only one, a female researcher. Let's call it a pink flag. But let's go ahead and consider the study somewhat valid. Did it take in account extremes of the bell curve? No, just the bulk of it. But the devil it's in the detail. Everyone can achieve a decent level in any learned skillset, but we take pros from the very edges of that Gaussian distribution. Men excel at being in those edges in some fields, women in other fields. Then you have exceptions, that aren't exceptional enough, in this case. Interest plays a big role here. Also, factual differences generate stereotypes, not the other way around. That's all. Your power fantasy that everyone is equal, therefore you can be anything/anyone clashes with data and reality.
Hannavosart Vlog why do we “need” qualified female members? I suppose it would be nice but it’s not a need. It is a liberal want. The reason there are almost no pro female players is due to interest. Men prefer video games to women, women like makeup, u will find way more makeup “pros” on RUclips that are women. It’s not due to sexism or anything else. This guys video is such liberal propaganda. This is not a troll.
Michael H exactly what David said. I would also say that representation is important for us so that guys would stop harassing us and telling us that we’re inferior at the game even though they be in the lo Elo themselves. But because they’re able to see other people like themselves (male), they can either aspire to be pro without worrying if their gender will be a hinderance in this community, have a twitch without their gender being a factor. And some of them think that just because they’re guys and pros are guys they’re somehow belong to a superior group. If we have more girls who are actually talented being shown, we can say hey, see girls can be good at this game. And that’s important for those of us who are girls. It’s not a good feeling to have people judge you not for my own skill or lack thereof and person, but just because of gender
@@sovannah9219 everybody gets harrased. I doubt many harrasers are actually sexist and are just bullies using what they know will drive most people insane. They are good at what they do. The best thing to do is ignore em and play the game as giving them any reaction, including calling em sexist is what they want. Silence is not so just ignore them and be you.
@Frostek Holy cow, you’re pretty sexist, aren’t you? You think women are weak and can’t handle trash talking, therefore it must stop? I agree that it does. Against both sexes and all races and religions. But it won’t. It’s the Internet. And if you’ve read any of the comments here, what people advocate for is qualification. People wouldn’t give a shit if a fifth dimensional alien transgender made it into eSports-if they’re good, they’re good. Unfortunately, EVERYBODY is met with some form of insult, no matter what.
@Theant19 Your arguement is right, your implementation is completely off guard and wrong. You're like a doctor saying you have the cure to cancer and cure every child in the world meanwhile you're telling the children that no matter what they will die even if they get the cure so you're better off not getting the cure. To the point of women need thick skin, yes not just women but men in fact men are worse when it comes to this instead of crying and whining it's taking their expensive keyboards and rapidly breaking them on their desk, punching through their monitors, or ranting online about gender equality and how a woman should get thick skin then taking a "conservative" route. It is a fact that even if a women got to the highest rank of LoL, contractors are still less likely to give the women a spot compare to a male not because women have psychological or physical disabilities but because it's risky media attention from both liberals and conservatives because both liberals and conservatives are complete idiots who don't know what they are talking about and only aim to achieve the emotions of the public. Contractors don't pick women because now you have LoL thinking Siren and this team was a good idea even though of their controversy of their losses which poorly represents all women. I agree skill should be accounted for, but so should respersenation yet not on the level of skill. You see back in the 1950's if a black male and a white male applied to college and the black male had just a little bit more to offer with skill than the white male. *The white male would still be picked over the white male because of how cultural surroundings affect us, and the racial implications of those times* We only choose to what our eyes are comfortable of seeing and that is white scrawny males in pro leagues we are not use to seeing females in the league so that kind of attention is risky. Glad to finish off this argument, thank you.
Take the Overwatch pro scene: 1 girl (Geguri). And why is she in there? Because she's good. Not because she's female. Putting together an all-female team is just a really bad idea. Doing so, automatically creates a "female vs male" atmosphere, which is so wrong and undesirable. We don't need to proof, that women can beat men in eSports. We need to look out for the best players and not have any preference in really anything while doing so.
@@wal_pur_gis It's a bad thing, regardless of the reason. It's pretty unlikely that you will find 6+ top players that happen to be female and happen to form a team by themselves. So if you ever see this, you know someone had a bad idea that has nothing to do with eSports, but personal social views. And I don't want and don't need that in eSports. It's silly. If I want that, I watch StarWars Last Jedi or something... Imagine how much pressure those women were under, JUST by being a female-only team that has to proof something. That's ridiculous. I'm all for an individual proving they rock. But not "because" or "despite" someone is female.
Equality is about equal chance to participate not equal outcome... That's why all these actions movements things went wrong and put people into more extreme
Maybe you can accuse the delaying of the game as disrespect but the banning of five supports is justifiable, you can't accuse them for that because it can be considered as strategic play
Who get benefits from this decisions? The members become laughing stock Women in esports now get looks down even further Others teams lose one opponent for nothing Vaevictis itself can't even sale their spot in LCL anymore
They had no roster and have to put a team into the league by the deadline. If they were going to go 0-14 with a bunch of randoms they wanted to at least try and have it be a publicity stunt.
It earns the company money. Publicity + prob not paying those women much = a good profit. The company was already dying, they don't care about the general view of women in videogames. They care only for profit.
Female streamers don't get "a little more attention". I've seen streaming girls who eat cornflakes in sweatpants while watching someone else's game with 10k viewers. Good luck with that as a guy.
Thought the information on stereotypes was really interesting. However I don't think it accounts for the difference in interest between men and women. It's not that they aren't capable of going into tech they just would rather go into careers like marine biology or writing ect. Like that she talked about her own personal examples of discrimination and not just generalizing. It was very realvealing
well said, women have their career preferences just as men do, that's why many schools are lowering the standards for women in certain fields, especially STEM, to hopefully encourage them to apply in the end, women may feel inclined to pursue a career in a male-dominated field, but later on regret such decision simply because they do not enjoy it, and only signed up for it initially due to the incentives
@@Mr51seer yeah I disagree with lowering standards to let people into a program. People should be able to prusue what they want as long as they have the merit. I could have gone into computer science but it doesn't take into account my propensity for visual art. I find it hilarious when people act like women don't know about things like the tech industry as a potentially career. Like no I totally don't use technology on a daily basis.
@@sylviapuppysticker8664 expecting people to validate you constantly makes zero sense. If you know you are good and you do something well people saying otherwise is meaningless. I don't care if people flame me just BC I'm a girl when I play a game. It's a reflection of them, not me when they express that. I will do what I enjoy and that's that.
Those players were d4 on average, but on Russia. Pro players from RU are playing on EUW, where they are chall/high grandmaster, so the diffrence is even bigger than if that would be d4 EUW player. And some of them gotten to diamond because of Duo'ing.
@@hatsuhioki9361 true, so if I was a female I can be pro in Russia? (All jokes aside the only way of those girls winning a game vs promos is to blowjob them to death).
Well the problem is that quite a few teams have houses that all the players live in. Ideally this shouldn't be an issue but with sexual harrassment coming to the forefront its a definitely a concern I imagine many managers have.
Having "women"-anything with no substance past "WAMEN" is a failure from the start. The only real way to make it work is not to make any deal about a team or thing being "ALL WAMEN, GUYS", and just have them kick ass without another word.
Hey, I'm a 14 y/o girl who really wants to people league professionally when I grow up. Right now I'm only a gold 3 player, but I'm planning to use the time I have at highschool to refine my skills. I'm in my highschool's esports team, and though it isn't the best team it's helping me learn some of the Dynamics of esports. If being a professional player doesn't work out then I can always work at riot as a programmer.
A bit of some warning DON'T be a programmer just bcz you like playing games. There are so many ppl who quit after first year of university in programming bcuz it was more different than they thought. That's true. So be careful and do a lot of research so you can know more about programming and if it's really your thing
I mean don’t spent all your time in high school playing League and hopes to be a pro esports player. Because I think talent is a key element in esports, you cant just practice to be someone like Faker. Probably Should use your time to study and learning.
Dont quit even if people tell you shit, theres good people out there so dont listen to the trolls :) Being a girl isnt a disadvantage, people just want it to be seen that way for some reason!
Ah I'm in a similar boat except I always wanted to be a programmer and just try to get good enough at adc to climb elo, but I gotta say even if you get to like diamond it won't really matter as even the collegiate teams have usually master-challenger. I hope you can improve enough to get into pro-play thought I always find it sad that there are no girls in super high elos. Just make sure that you actually focus on school and stuff, esports is really lucrative.
Why did these women agreed to form a low level team? Did they really believe they would do well with 3 supports? They themselves perpetuated the stereotype.
They admitted they wanted to get paid to game. Thats it. Well, one of the girls said it, and I guarantee the russian girls team was the same. Sometimes it is just they like the idea of an all girls team so its like "yeah, why not hehehe". And when they are told they can do anything and be anything blah blah, they really shut their brain off and dont think because they are told they dont have to. Just do it. Well, when you dont think, you make stupid mistakes. It all sounds nice until it is practiced.
I'm getting really tired of this reductive argument of representation... "We need more representation in (insert public community here), the people in that community are being too prejudiced!" We're totally ignoring so many factors that play into this, including things that the male/female gaming community as a whole could be doing better for the sake of their image, and instead just saying "Diversity good, prejudice bad." While the statement seems well and good at first, we need so start realizing that gender prejudice isn't just a wall that needs to be pushed through. You're dealing with people that all have opinions, experiences, and flaws, so you can't just reduce your argument to saying something is bad. At the risk of sounding sexist, note the fact that both of the major all-female teams have players that are hostile to their teammates. Obviously not every female player is like this, not by a long shot, but the fact that patterns like this can be so easily drawn is why you're having this problem. On the other side, a lot of guys I've seen in gaming communities don't realize how flat their jokes come off when talking to women in a game. I'm pretty sure a lot of low-mid level players that make jokes toward female players are trying to be friendly, albeit failing miserably. And, there's reasons behind this too, but I doubt anyone will care about those reasons because it doesn't support unflinching diversity-pushes enough.
This is a good video. As a female person who plays league, its extremely sad to see this type of thing happening because yea--it really makes it seem like we are our stereotype. it also made me realize that instead of changing to an adc/support main I really should just stick with mid. I also deal with this kind of stuff in real life because I am in engineering. obviously it's not the same because usually people are more professional at corporate type jobs just still I definitely always stand out, and not just because I'm good at what I do.
@@jackcola5513 that you write bullshit/have no overview/clue of actual pro gaming scene. scarlett is female btw. maybe should have given you that info. quote you: "look at the top hundred players of any game and you wont find a single female its because men are more skilled"
@@jackcola5513 well in my opinion, it depends on the play time of both gender, males tend to play longer (7+ hours) and more into League than females (in my observation, they play in average of 2 hours)
honestly, seeing that comment so much, now that i think about it thats really insulting to actual female and even to that guy because he may not want to perceived as such
@@Momogamer9 Yeah, cosplaying as a girl every 3-4 months or so is like asking for him to be perceived as a boy, am I right? Quit shitposting around already..
Im late but just because they are female and they got in, thats what i would call sexist 100%. Im gold player but of anyone who is up low dia can be pro, then there would be 10x more teams than now. Its a joke with how low dia female players became pro coupled with all of then main support... It shouldn't happen to males no matter how you think about it. If its seeking some bs validation or being sexist idk what else.
Regarding the gaming house, i think Scarra's offline TV House is actually a somewhat great example for gaming house infrastructure supporting both male and female even if it's not competitive gaming house.
Well I have to agree but still the level of the female streamers in the Offline TV House is not as good as to be considered competitive enough. My friend which plays in LAN and has a diamond rank managed to destroy a fed Pokimane by himself being him an adc and her an Orianna. (LAN is considered a very low skill level server by many) And Pokimane for example is one of the worst players in that house, I would think that Lilypichu is better than her and her rank is not as high.
@@Gonnereccon U r so wrong. Pokimane is not bad, she is better than Lily or KP. She just play shit champs like Lux or Orianna. She plays versus Yassuo and she won the lane so. Dont say thing that aren't true
@@sansn7261 Would not agree with the KP one. KP might be a lower ranked player than Poki, but KP is actually the better player. In terms of mechanical skill, they're pretty much even but KP has better macro decision making. I honestly think the reason why KP is lower ranked is because she plays more roles than Poki does. All Poki plays is Mid or get forced into support. KP actually plays 3 roles well and tried out the other two from time to time and it's been proven time and time again that a single-role focus player will always have better and faster climbing experience than those who get tossed around roles.
Legitimately very well made, I remember the Siren memes so it was interesting to finally hear the other side other side of some of that mess was very eye opening.
It was disingenuous. The problem wasn't some "backlash", it was infighting that got worse because they got crushed in their fist game to a bunch of randoms.
For me as a girl who playes LoL. Im working so hard to get in myself in esport. And it's start working. I'm a mid player my fav. Charachter is Akali. But i try to read and know anything about all of the other charachters. I wanna know every single , little thing about leauge and i try my best and play more and more and more. In my free time i go to a porfessional trainer who help be being good more and more. I already have experience about how is it feels when u on stage and play front of thousands of people. Im really happy about that my dream in small peaces is come true. I try my best and im working hard everyday to get myseld into the real esport.
Padding the game for K/D is bad manners warranting the warning or even penalty. Targeted bans are part of the game. Banning the opponents main characters is the thing you are supposed to do when in doubt.
That's what I was thinking too. Like, isn't the point of pick-and-ban in the pro-scene is to inflict a potentially damaging blow on the opponent team before they even start playing. This is why (I suspect) most players will specialize in multiple characters in their preferred class, so that for example, if Caitlin is banned (currently my main, just started playing League a week ago), a pro-ADC player can go to another one and not be completely outmatched. But for this particular team, having three support mains and then losing out on five potential support characters? Well, that sucks and all, but that's the system working fully as intended. Though purposely drawing out the match just to inflate their kill ratio was wrong and deserved to be reprimanded in some fashion as that is not only wholly unsportmenship-like (especially for a pro-team), but it's also probably is rather dull to watch from a viewer perspective. But banning five support characters from a team that had three support mains? I mean... yeah, why wouldn't they? Perhaps some saw it as stepping on someone who is already down on the ground as it probably was pretty clear from the gecko that this team was not going to be able to win and stand against this other team who had way more time to practice, learn, cooperate, and endure together as a whole. It just makes it even more frustrating to think these girls were only used as a desperate play by a soon-to-be-bankrupt organization to gain some immediate publicity, and not because they genuinely thought they were right or had a shot of making it to the end. I honestly cannot imagine what the girls themselves were thinking or feeling throughout this tournament
Unfortunately this team is also taking the place of a team/players who deserve to be playing professionally in the LCL. I’m sure there are plenty of Russian League players who would prosper if given the opportunity to play at the highest level, but the Vaevictus Organization has crushed their hopes by this publicity stunt.
@@nevergonnafindme5778 I'm aware of Remilia of Renegades. Aside from her skills on Thresh though she never really was a stand-out player during her time as pro.
@@Flash33c She was a transgender, that doesnt count. The real exemple was a taiwanese support from TPA that has good result when the regular support of the team was sick and couldnt play.
.... EASY ANSWER IS: LESS WOMEN ARE INTERESTED IN VIDEO GAMES, THUS SMALLER TALENT POOL DUE TO LESS WOMEN PLAYING AS THE CHANCES OF A PROFESSIONAL HIGH LEVEL PLAYER REGARDLESS OF GENDER IS ALREADY SUCH A SMALL %OF THE PLAYERBASE, it is even smaller to find a woman of that caliber playing, thus explaining why women struggled in Esport. Not hard to understand.
I need to correct you. There is not a lack of representation of women in competitive gaming. There is however, a lack of women who wish to pursue competitive gaming on the top tier professional level. The "lack of representation" argument is at it's core, a politicized talking-point made by post-modern feminists who do not understand human nature via the sexes. Men tend to be far more competitive than women. This is found scientifically in the biological and psychological make-up of males. So to continue to peddle this narrative of "lack of representation" is to more or less, be the very supportive reason of failed teams like this, who throw females up on stage not for merit or skill-set, but rather, whats between their legs for moral-grandstanding points. Case closed.
I think there are a couple great female players that are able to be pros or at least academy level. But to get a full team of only females is to limiting at the moment. My biggest issue with all this was it ignoring the LCS did have a female player Remilia, who was the support of Renegades. While she left do to other issues, she still climbs the ranks in multiple regions. She did end up playing in Latin America and placing 4 with Kaos under the name Sakuya. She left this to medical issues. As for geguri, her aimbotting wasn't just an accusation, it became a bet. The players who accused her of it bet there career on it saying they would retire. All but one did when she proved them wrong. She in season one of the owl league was the best player the dragons picked up and she won then a couple maps even if they didn't win any matches do to other factors like language barriers from having a Chinese Korean split all speaking English. So while we have a long way to go in eSports, these success stories shouldn't be underplayed either. And small advances like the female CSGO leagues and twitch rivals giving some top talent the chance to show off that they can play on a team and perform with the other top streamers and retired players are huge steps forward.
Lightswitch I think it doesn’t count, depending on when they transitioned. The whole argument hinges on societal pressure - and if they haven’t been experiencing the “you’re good, for a girl” side of this, then it doesn’t really apply. So, the answer’s not really a definite one, but possibly.
@Lightswitch I would argue she gets more harassment for being trans but a large amount of the community didn't know she was trans. She also was on the kitchen bandits which was what became team siren. If we are just talking about social pressures and not the biological argument because more of league is about understanding the game and not chocking, we can say she was by far put under more pressure and still came out ahead.
@Lightswitch She had a very very small following. I knew of her because of Chaox and i followed every thresh player at the time. Her twitch chat at the time put anyone that brought up her being the best female player or trans in timeout and she would say things like, "i dont want to be seen as the best female, i want to be seen as the best" which is the winning mentality I think about. I'm not sure what her reason was at the time for leaving but I think it was stress. She hated being on cam and it wasn't until after her surgeries she started using facecam consistently. But from what i saw frollowing her, I saw more people saying she the best female player and not many bringing up the trans issue unless you dove deeper. Even her Wiki page doesn't bring up that shes trans so unless you are in the know, you mostlikely wouldnt know.
Yes Yea Yep No Nope Its a meme at this point,u can buy slots on L9 clubs in any region for like 10eur,or u can be a girl and prob get inv for free lol.
Complaining about "lack of female representation" (in any area) and making proactive efforts to mitigate this by "helping women" to get into an area, any area, is patronizing to women to the point of being derogatory, because it assumes that those women interested in the area are not good enough to get into it the same way as everybody else. Try and change my mind.
The fact that you see it as a failure is an issue. The real reason women have a problem in professional gaming is because the core values of the dominant culture that is heavily influential in gaming culture do not respect women - thus jokes of rape, the worship and fetishization of asian women, sexualization of* women’s bodies in video games in an appeal to - well honestly men. But, racism also comes to play in this the disdain for dark skin exists as well in gaming culture along with homophobia; one could call gaming culture a true replica of America’s own immoral attitudes and disdain for minority culture. In all, women are not wanted in gaming culture, the disrespect and discrimination against women in games has been around since the well known statements of them not being allowed in hardcore guilds because of the “drama” that they bring. TLDR; women are not wanted in the field, thus they have no success.
@@peterlopez2388 Dude are we commenting under the same video? Do I need to repeat the very content it is assumed you saw and heard to take part in this conversation? 1. She started climbing when people no longer knew she's a girl, and 2. a research showed girls that didn't otherwise underperform did so when the attitude of those around them was condescending only because of their gender. This IS a problem that actually causes less wins to happen, like it or not. Even the amazingly talented Overwatch pro girl was harassed into tears in a way that doesn't happen to any male streamer to this degree unless they've literally sexually abused children. It's the incel and thot mentality of people that needs to be seriously addressed, not dismissed.
@@Toxihex 1) I'm pretty sure that just the price of fame. Pretty sure they found out who she was and didn't want that attached to them. That's just the price of fame or in her case, infamy. 2) allowing the words of others to have that much of an impact on you is kind of pathetic. Listening to a white woman complain about that shit is hilarious. I'm a black, bisexual guy so the hate slung at me is pretty heavy but it's the words of haters and sore losers. The best way to deal with them? Beat them. Leave them stewing them in their own salt. Either way, hate or not, they had no business playing pro. Not because of their gender but because of their sever lack of skill.
@@Toxihex if u play competitively, prepare to get harrassed daily. I experience this my self playing league, dota 2 on high elo and when u make a mistake that can lose u the entire game, ur teammates and community are gonna be for sure flaming u a lot since u were basically at fault. And u endure this and still climb up the ranks. The amount of effort players spend into playing competitive is huge so if that effort doesnt come to fruition, u shd expect to get verbally abused. I once had a team mate telling me to fcking kill my self, wanted my family to have cancer and etc..... Harrassment in a highly competitive game goes hand in hand regardless of gender. Just be sure to endure and suck it all up.
Watch Jordan Peterson explain the differences between genders in aggression, which can often be substituted for competitiveness, mixed with the fact that the player base as a whole is overwhelmingly male and its pretty elementary to see why there are so few women in the highest levels of esports. It has absolutely nothing to do with girls subconsciously trying less hard because of a stereotype. Thats pretty much accusing the girls of being weak willed, which probably isnt what the almost feminist apologist tone of this video was going for.
Even though I dislike Jordan Peterson for his take on Religion I still think he's a smart man and your comment is on point. When this guy went with the stereotype bs I left the video...
"What made you pursue LoL as a career and did you acknowledge you may have had a disadvantage just because of your gender?" Boi, Her gender is her advantage. Her lack of skill was her disadvantage. If women want to be taken seriously in gaming than they have to git gud. I know it sounds mean but don't expect everyone else to slow down for you and simultaneously expect to earn their respect. Again, not trying to be mean.
I work in STEM, electronics within robotics, and the brilliant female engineers are not stereotyped. They're too busy being successful to worry about such petty things. The only women who complain about stereotypes are the ones who prove the stereotypes to be true. There's plenty of stereotypes about men, but it doesn't seem to hold us back.
Whilst it isn't LoL.. a good example of a pro-female player is Geguri who is a main tank in Overwatch who was RENOWNED for her high octane gameplay, insane reaction speeds and so on.. she is top 500 in the American scenes and places the same usually when based in the Asian scenes too. She was legitimately so good, many pro players repeatedly cried out she was an aimbotting cheater and if she did not prove herself innocent she was scum, if she did prove herself innocent - they would leave the proscene thEY WERE THAT SURE she was manipulating the games she based in. It got so bad for her Blizzard flew her out to a studio and livestreamed her gameplay and reffed what she did through out - surprise surprise, she was telling the truth in her own talents and the players did not retire and went back on their words. (One of these players are Xepher.) What I am saying with this is... Geguri is beyond recognised in the Overwatch scene NOT because she is female, but because she has this past and current INSANE ability. Of course some of the community still screams that she doesn't belong and blah blah (it isn't advice or criticisms but pure sexist hate), but she IS merely renowned and focuses on being the best she can be regardless - yes, she stands up for women who want to also be in the scene and wants to be a standard, but she has proven to be a HIGH STANDARD if that makes sense... (Yes, I know this is talked about in the video, but truly, just Geguri holds a LARGE part in my heart; I'm not Female and the only harrassment I've faced online is due to my sexuality but she is somebody I IDOLISE.. and so some tiny facts from that felt good to put there)
I actually think Geguri is generally overrated and probably shouldn't be in OWL...but I think the same of a couple players in the OWL so the possible degree of bias that led to her being there is not that significant so im generaly fine with it. And we have pretty strong evidence of that bias when we look at the male player in OW who decided to pretend to be a female for a little bit and performed at roughly the same level. He was almost instantly picked up by a contenders team just because he said he was a girl...Also I feel like you overestimate how much people didn't believe Geguri or how rare it is for players that appear kind of out of nowhere to be asked to prove they are actually good. The difference is that when the person being accused is male theres no assumption of sexism or anything like that so it doesn't get any large scale attention.
@@DIVAD291 White knights always have to puff up women. We love them, it is our evolution. Some just put them on high pedestals sadly. it was obvious he was exaggerating the hate she got. Plenty of guys get the hate. I see video after video discussing this or that guy. Sigh... It is like when they talk like women are the only ones getting hate online or get most of it, but studies show this isnt true at all and any guy knows this isnt true. Heck, I see streams all the time with trash talking about everything possible. But when its aimed at women, we gotta freak out and put them in a safe zone. Poor girls cant take the competitiveness.
Theres good amount of dislikes on this video and its sad. You guys really cant take it that most men just happen to practice more and are better in general in the pro scene. Dont be mad because he told it how it is.
This video seems to ignore a basic fact. Women are individuals first. You will find they have different passions and goals then men. You won't see a 50 50 distribution because less women want to actually play. With a smaller player pool you will have a harder time finding people in that group who will be at the level of a professional player. I'm sure there are some but it will be harder to find. With that said. Yeah there is a perception issue that women are not as good. Which isn't true. Its just not as easy to find because there are so few because so few women will make the attempt to become that good. Just look at how many people in general who make that attempt and fail.
I disagree with your conclusion that its sexism keeping women out of e-sports. Your completely ignoring the very real fact that men are more prone to extreme behavior then women. Which is to say that women are less likely to obsessively put in the hundreds of hours necessary to become a world class player. Not that it's very likely for a man to go that far either, just that of the very few weirdos that will play the same video game all day every day tend to be men rather then women. You see the same thing in corporations where after climbing the ladder of promotions to a certain point, female executives and managers will just stop trying to advance. Not because they can''t, often they will even knock back promotions. Simply choosing to focus on family, hobbies or other non-work activities. Many men will also make the same choice, just the few who will put in the insane hours needed to become the CEO of a fortune 500 company tend to all be men. I think forbs wrote an article on this phenomena.
Well made video man. The formatting was perfect for the topic. How everything was introduced flowed nicely. The subject is controversial but you managed to make it as factual as possible and not put your opinions on the front line. I hope one day, there can at least be a few female pros that aren't used for their gender but for their undeniable skills. Hope to see more vids soon!
There is no underreprentation, it's people not being interested. And if you are interested do something instead of whining about how it won't work because the world is unfair.
simple answer: women like cute things, and would rather play with cute things. so thats why they dont play every champ in the game in order to get better. Also mental is a big issue since women more likely would rather watch drama related shows than most other genres. For the guy who lost his mind at the end of the stereotype chapter, i agree about that. The guy who scouted ilysuiteheart, didnt want a toxic team environment but still wanted to play with her since he thougt she was good. For the harassment on streams, it has happened to everyone who streams. Ive heard the exact same thing happen to guys and to big/small streamers. Its not good at all in either situation. For women trying to go pro, id say to climb to challenger and get into the top 100 by playing many roles and make sure all roles are challenger level. And keep practicing for long periods of time each day. If you are at that level, go pro and develop a mental to stay cool under any kinds of pressure. The moment you lose your cool, is when guys will act like wolves on a hunt. If you can stand your ground with good comebacks and the skills to back you up, then guys will respect you 100%. Also /mute all in league or mute the toxic people in game when you play so that all you need to do is focus on the game.
I gotta admit, the whole situation around Vaevictis sounds like a movie premise. A pro sports franchise being forced to field a team of amateurs due to financial problems is just amusing regardless of the players' genders.
League doesn't ask you what gender you are when you win a ranked game to decide how much lp you get. I will admit there are ridiculously immature people online. but guys deal with it all the time and brush it off.
Everyone brushes it off. When I get harassed on my game because of my gameplay, I brush it off(I don't have a nickname which will indicate I'm a female). But when I get comments on my gender and when I see gender stereotyping comments, that's when I discourage. Because your gameplay is something you can change and fix. But your gender isn't. Even if you say "Well, these stereotyoes are wrong! I won't let them get to me." It still stays in your brain and when you play slightly bad you think "Maybe I will never imrove because I'm a female." Because of all the things you heard throughout your life. It is not only one comment, if it was then we wouldn't call it "stereotype" we would call it "just a stupid comment".
@@denizkaragullu6239 That's trash talk and is present in every form of competition in existence. You either have the mental fortitude to brush it off and keep moving forward or coward down and give up.
@@nemilperez5441 I know it's trash talk and I'm not saying it's impossible to brush it off or it makes you coward down or anything like that. But stereotypes are more than trash talk because they are things which have built up in our society over time and they are here in our brains for so long, even if we know that it's wrong now, it is hard to just erase it. This doesn't only apply to "playing games as a girl", of course, it applies to every stereotype. It can be a real discouragement and a barrier for people to improve. But of course we shouldn't let these thoughts get to us, after all we are different human beings with different titles and adjectives. And these adjectives shouldn't affect each other in any way.
@@denizkaragullu6239 Stereotypes are also trash talk. The point is that in battle the enemy doesnt care about your feelings. You may think it is just a game but you also have to understand that men evolved for battle, whether against other people, animals, or nature, and to this day we always must be prepared. Look at the people fighting forest fires, hurricane destruction, wars, etc... So even in games, it is us using our evolved skills to become the best at what we do, to win. So trash talking has few limits. If you cant take being made fun of for your gender, you cant handle the competitive scene and shouldnt waste their time. Stereotypes are usually based on some truth and if you disagree, then fight back with skill and show them you are not the stereotype. At the moment you are perfectly exhibiting the stereotype of overly emotional weak women who cant take trash talk. That is it. Your excuses dont help you.
Thank you so much for the documentary. I'm really not sure why it's 1/4 disliked, since it provides good impartial information and wants to support female players. I hope the female pro player scenario grows, but unfortunately it has to be with a slower approach.
@@Rickfernello I don't think SJW's like fair and balanced arguments. Granted, I'm not exactly convinced by the referenced study. I'd really like to see physical tests result for reflexes and coordination.
I feel it needs to be pointed out that your interpretation of the data on gender differences in motor performance, gaming behaviors, and competitive tendencies is WRONG. While it is true the AVERAGE female and AVERAGE male have no difference in "gaming abilities" or cognitive capabilities, this does not hold true at the extremes. If you look at the bell curves of men and women in cognition and coordination related tasks, the female bell curve is taller towards the center, indicating that most women are at or around the average of both females and males. The male bell curve is much shorter and WIDER, indicating that there are both men who are extremely good at things more often then females, as well as extremely bad at things more often then females. In order to play competitive E-Sports at a high level, you must be in the top hundredth of 1% of all players, this places you at the very high end of the extremes. There are more males in this range than females, plain and simple. So no, the misrepresentation of females in E-Sports is not due to discrimination and stereotype bias, it is due to BIOLOGICAL drivers in primarily 3 categories: Interest, cognitive capability, and coordination. That's just they way we're built. Males have more Einsteins, but they also have more Ted Bundys. The trade-off has its benefits and its detriments. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The problem might be biology to some extend my friend, but saying that that solely is the reason why there are no female pro players is absolutely ignorant. Yes women might not find gaming interesting but if you take the base of female psyche in consideration and the fact that how many females are attracted towards arts and feelings and people in general, this is not statistics, but video games are an amazing arena for a female's psyche to go wild. So yeah it has to do something with biology but it has a lot to do with the toxic sexist community and stereotypes AS WELL. I know about the bell curve statistics but it doesn't stand for everything and again, it's not the solution. See there are billions of women out there, and you're saying that none of them can become a pro because Biology? That's extremely ignorant. A woman has to face a lot more shit than a man online, and if you can't accept that simple fact then that ends the argument. So yes your argument is correct, but you're wrong for saying that harassment and stereotypes don't affect women's progress.... These things have some serious effects on people's lives... Like... I really don't know how to explain it but if someone faces these things on a daily level.... Success will be an untouchable dream for them cause there lives would just pass in recovering from their traumas.
@@shreyarishi9524 not really... I mean have you ever played a league game. I can easily say that I have been told very VERY BAD things and my play style didn't get better or worse because of that and you can easily mute or report people without much problem. So saying that women can't find or have a hard time finding a place in Pro Esports spotlight is not because of toxicity or flames you only get that if you play bad and you say that you are woman then ofcourse angry people in a competitive game will attack you with things targeted towards women just as they would target me about saying things that would be hurtful towards a man. It is just that simple when it comes to online games there will always be that person or people who tries to make your life hell. Oh and also saying that a woman face more toxicity online is just stupid maybe you have gotten used to it but I can garantee you that a female player doesnt get more toxicity that only seem like that because you don't see a female player a lot in competitive games and because of that you see it as something worse for women while not even seeing how much toxicity a man gets for making even the slightest mistake. But then again you said '' That's extremely ignorant. A woman has to face a lot more shit than a man online, and if you can't accept that simple fact then that ends the argument. '' so I guess there is nothing you want to discuss... Oh and a little side note; I am not saying that women in Esports or in casual games don't get harassed but that is mostly because of experiences regarding these situations most likely were bad ones and that is why many people think that a pro women team will just fail again and the only way to change peoples mind is to prove that a pro team composed of women can actually win maybe a match or the competition itself until then this stigma won't go away. But if you ask my personal opinion on this matter: ''Give a chance to people prove themselves.'' That is pretty much it.
@RamenBombe He didn't deny that sexism exists. I believe the point he as making was that sexism doesn't prevent women from from doing something they really want to do.
Whoa, women aren’t in STEM fields because they choose to not participate in those fields not because of any social or cultural barriers. Check your self my dude.
@@constitutional3559 Ah damn, took me this long to realize, skankhunt... that explains it. I'm ashamed of myself for not noticing sooner. Such a disgrace
I really appreciate this video! I think it's stupid to make a whole female team. Why not just focus on the skill? And all female teams in which every player mains support, is just insulting to me. I'm personally not the best comp. player but this stereotype that females only play support and healers in video games really annoys me. just a lil rant: And I hear way too often people saying that getting harrassed and so on in online games is normal and to "get over it" but there is a difference between getting harrased because you weren't performing well/the other person was tilted, or if you get harrased because you are a female.
LittleBabyBat yeah but at the end of the day they are harassing you for being female because that’s the most glaring characteristic and makes it much easier to abuse when there is that obvious of a difference... female gamers are not the norm they are unnatural therefore girls will either get abused or flirted with, there is virtually no middle ground really, it’s not so much a sexist thing as it is striking at the obvious difference, I speak with an audible lisp so if I speak in game and someone is tilted or thinks I’m playing like shit and I try to defend myself and they hear that lisp... you better believe the rest of the match is going to be them ragging on it because once again it’s the obvious difference
Bold of you to assume it is the same for physical sports for a girl to perform the same compared to men. That's not what millions of years of evolution says. Different hormonal profiles, biological purposes, bodies, skeletal structures, etc. The fact that we have to have this debate today just goes to show how hard the media and faulty "scientific" surveys are pushing their stance. It's all about backing up the narrative with emotions ain't it?
Or, hear me out on this, the under-representation is caused by the fact that significantly less women care to get seriously into video games than men? Because other hobbies catch their interest more?
Otherwise great video, but the studies linked are just trash. They don't even prove what you're trying to state that they do. Quote "The overall findings suggest that differences between gender in eSports indeed exist, with different objectives while playing video games. However, it also proposes that the gap between the skills of genders is not significant, and the performance of gaming is not much different between gender." This is just complete conjecture since we know full well in every competition the difference between a pro and an amateur is exactly what you'd in daily life call 'not significant'. There's nothing preventing me from being a pro player, except for some 'non significant gap between the skills of me and a pro'. Both studies leave with more guidelines on how the massive difference between genders in esports could be improved, but doesn't provide anywhere near enough data to suggest that there don't appear to be any differences between genders. The reason stated in this video for differences is participation in STEM fields is also just a complete mischaracterization of why women don't choose STEM fields. We know it's for a lack of interest and that's not something that can be fixed unless you take away women's right to choose and FORCE them into STEM.
I'm a female and I just turned 14. I want to break into the pro scene when I'm done with highschool as a *real player* and not as a publicity stunt. It will happen and I will make sure it does.
Oh course I'm keeping up my GPA. Im not number one in my class, but I'm definitely up there, so it'd be a surprise if I didn't get into a good college. But that doesn't mean I should give up on what I want to do. And what I want to do is become a notable female player. None of this heart broken sensitive feminism playing on all girls team stunt publicity bs but a real player that won't give out under the pressure. I'll be someone whos just as good in the esports scene without a dick swinging in between their legs ✌
I think another issue in regards to an all women pro team not working out is because there isn't much role diversity in league for women. Most girls main support, adc, or mid. Rarely jungle or top. I think to break the barrier for women in league esports, it has to come from the big franchises (i.e. TSM, TL, CLG, C9, FNC, G2, etc.) making a move to include a really good female player on their team. They have resources to protect and help them achieve their highest potential.
From a logical standpoint, there are concerns regarding having a female on a team full of males when teams currently live in the same house. I think for females to truly come into the league, team houses need to be removed (which I personally agree with doing regardless)
@@RiotBrosGaming That's never happening. You absolutely need team houses, because being a pro gamer is a 24/7 job. How are you supposed to conduct scrims or team practice without being in the same location? You expect them to do it online? And team houses have proven their worth. This is the pro scene, not your local 2k MMR pub tournament. The infrastructure, which includes team houses, is concluded to be the biggest reason why Korea dominated eSports for so long.
@@jyashin Um... Some north american teams already have a seperate office for scrims. It can also be a good thing for players to have separation from their team mates at some point. Everyone needs a break from others occasionally, working with people and then staying with said people 24/7 is not great for a lot of relationships.
@@RiotBrosGaming Oh I agree the 24/7 thing is absolutely horrible. But that's what it takes to make it on the pro scene. It's also why the average League pro's career is less than a season. You know what SKT's reward for winning worlds was? A 3 day vacation.
@@jyashin But you can spend all day playing and scrimming with the team and then go home. Echo Fox does it. Im pretty sure there is another team that does it as well, just cant remember which.
I can't speak for stereotypes causing the discourage of female players entering e-sports teams but research in educational science and didactics show that positive female rolemodels and encouraging women plays a tiny to no role of women choosing their careers.
The issue is this, we don't need a Woman team, you need to make a good team, and if they happen to be woman its fine. But the issue is the Media and all woman groups wanna prove woman are better so, they over hype crappy woman teams. Its like the WNBA claiming they can beat the a NBA team, or Woman soccer claiming they are better than the mens team because they can beat other woman up, but yet, they forget to mention, they get beat up by youth 15 boys team.
The story about the support guy who rejected her as jungler because she is a girl made me think about how privileged I am bcs I am an european white decent-financed boy
Rayon811 probably because liberals like quotas and think women are “underrepresented” when in reality women are perfectly represented since women are just not as interested in gaming as men are. Just my 2 cents, there are probably other reasons.
It's true that tons of women aren't interested in it, but there's also tons of that are. Having a precedent that shows that women can also compete in esports helps aspiring women who want to get into the field do so, increasing the field in both size and its image of being an all-inclusive, non-gatekeeping sport. It's unfair as hell for people like ilysuiteheart to get denied a spot just because she was a woman, so if there was a larger representation of them in the scene discrimination like that wouldn't be as likely The reason why women aren't "interested in it" is mainly a stereotype thing as well, which can make it hard for women that are. One's upbringing and childhood plays a major influence to what they want to pursue, and im sure as you all know, girls would be introduced to "girly" things while boys will be introduced to "boyish things." That along with what's in the video is why imo. Can't really think of any other reason to why women are so uninterested in esports that the representation of them is so small compared to men
@@SearedBite There isn't an concrete answer to this and there are many reasons as opposed to one, but I'd say one of them is cuz of so many years of men doing the "hard work" and women doing the "cooking and cleaning." I'm NOT saying that it was a bad thing that this was how it was (after all, men are biologically stronger, not one can argue with that), but it has made it seem like for many, that NO women can do hard work, when that isn't true. It also means you can't outcast all women in a field just because of a statistic. Being more welcoming towards women allow those who are actually capable not be unfairly discriminated for their gender. Video games historically being marketed towards as boyish things doesn't help either Reminds me of how a lot of people see black people in the us. Yes, a lot of them do commit crimes, but that doesn't mean every single one of them do, and treating them as so is incredibly unfair.
SOURCES USED: (The academic journals used are free to download in PDF)
repositories.lib.utexas.edu/handle/2152/62914 (Gender Inequality in Esports Participation: Examining League of Legends)
journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1555412014567228 (Stand by Your Man: An Examination of Gender Disparity in League of Legends )
ruclips.net/video/deZMsDYYpJY/видео.html (PROfiles: Se-Yeon "Geguri" Kim | Overwatch League Player Profile)
ruclips.net/video/cAJW1DdufGs/видео.html (Women in Esports w/ Sjokz l EUphoria Season 3 Episode 5
)
On a final note, All criticisms/opinions are related to Vaevictis as an ORGANIZATION. These should not be taken as attacks on the individual players unless I specifically mentioned their names.
lol
just as an idea but do you think an all female league would be possible?
@@florianwinkler710 I think there needs to be enough women that play at a reasonable level first for that to happen.
@@exedra8649 yeah i tought so too. :/
@@florianwinkler710 There's currently an amateur female league in EU
>be vega
>gets a warning for delaying the game.
>comes back and sets a record for fastest win at 13 minutes.
inb4 they get warned for beating them to fast.
@@imclueless9875 God damnit Females, if you're too quick, they complain, if you take too long, they complain. I wouldn't know the second part, but second hand stories have taught me that.
Can't make up their minds
Sure, you choosing to stay away right? Incels ;)
@Theant19 Not really, they like guys like him, just not LOOKING like him. The more you see a White Knight polish his armor, the more he hides his pizza face behind the helm.
Once I won a game in 6 min, I guess the got ddos because they all were afk
female or not..5 support diamond players vs master-challenger pro teams that had at least a year to practice. the ppl who gave this a green light should be in trouble
No amount of training would have helped these shit female gamers, gtfo with your shit opinions
@@ocoolwow guess we found the incel here
Dont use incel. Thats SJW talk use virgin much better
The people who green lit this is literally society. Lifting up women to make them feel like they are equal or even superior to men when in most endeavors they are not.
@@TheBornnaked well as you can see society coddles women like children and the results are stupid that sane women just look at this as a dumb stunt. They should have put better players instead of this sorry execuse
There is no need for a all female team for the sake of having one, get good master/challenger player that happen to be female....
@@thefrunter4596 damn got em the feminists boutta get triggered
@@thefrunter4596 He literally showed sources to a study that says that's not the case at all. Did you even watch the whole video
@@thefrunter4596 I guess your mom is proud of you...
The gender is not important in any kind of skill level. It's about making gender, which leads to stereotypes. But I assume you didn't even watched that video, else you would know that.
Freundlicher Mensch if this guy is serious he’s dumb, if he’s not (which is very likely) he’s obviously looking for a reaction
Basically, you took the bait lmao
@@YuenQestir He showed a study title and told you what was in it. First red flag. Study sample? Qualitative:15 participants. Quantitative: 16821 participants. Joke numbers, second red flag. Study authors? Only one, a female researcher. Let's call it a pink flag.
But let's go ahead and consider the study somewhat valid. Did it take in account extremes of the bell curve? No, just the bulk of it. But the devil it's in the detail. Everyone can achieve a decent level in any learned skillset, but we take pros from the very edges of that Gaussian distribution. Men excel at being in those edges in some fields, women in other fields. Then you have exceptions, that aren't exceptional enough, in this case. Interest plays a big role here. Also, factual differences generate stereotypes, not the other way around. That's all.
Your power fantasy that everyone is equal, therefore you can be anything/anyone clashes with data and reality.
"Vega listened to Riots Warning and speedrunned the game to end it at 13 minutes" LOL
now that………thats beautiful
*evil laugh*
*Riot warns Vega for harrassement due to a 13 minute speedrun. 'LoL is not a speedrun game.' "
@@GetTheGames They already warned him of slowing the the gameplay... wtf?
I can't even beat a bot game in 13 minutes and I'm Gold. Really shows you the difference between Diamonds and pros.
@@atlasflame5815 To contextualize the difference between JUST D4 and D1, Diamond 4 and 3 are both still considered Low Elo.
We don’t need all female teams. Just qualified female members
Hannavosart Vlog why do we “need” qualified female members? I suppose it would be nice but it’s not a need. It is a liberal want. The reason there are almost no pro female players is due to interest. Men prefer video games to women, women like makeup, u will find way more makeup “pros” on RUclips that are women. It’s not due to sexism or anything else. This guys video is such liberal propaganda. This is not a troll.
Michael H exactly what David said. I would also say that representation is important for us so that guys would stop harassing us and telling us that we’re inferior at the game even though they be in the lo Elo themselves. But because they’re able to see other people like themselves (male), they can either aspire to be pro without worrying if their gender will be a hinderance in this community, have a twitch without their gender being a factor. And some of them think that just because they’re guys and pros are guys they’re somehow belong to a superior group. If we have more girls who are actually talented being shown, we can say hey, see girls can be good at this game. And that’s important for those of us who are girls. It’s not a good feeling to have people judge you not for my own skill or lack thereof and person, but just because of gender
@@sovannah9219 everybody gets harrased. I doubt many harrasers are actually sexist and are just bullies using what they know will drive most people insane. They are good at what they do. The best thing to do is ignore em and play the game as giving them any reaction, including calling em sexist is what they want. Silence is not so just ignore them and be you.
@Frostek
Holy cow, you’re pretty sexist, aren’t you? You think women are weak and can’t handle trash talking, therefore it must stop? I agree that it does. Against both sexes and all races and religions. But it won’t. It’s the Internet. And if you’ve read any of the comments here, what people advocate for is qualification. People wouldn’t give a shit if a fifth dimensional alien transgender made it into eSports-if they’re good, they’re good. Unfortunately, EVERYBODY is met with some form of insult, no matter what.
@Theant19 Your arguement is right, your implementation is completely off guard and wrong. You're like a doctor saying you have the cure to cancer and cure every child in the world meanwhile you're telling the children that no matter what they will die even if they get the cure so you're better off not getting the cure.
To the point of women need thick skin, yes not just women but men in fact men are worse when it comes to this instead of crying and whining it's taking their expensive keyboards and rapidly breaking them on their desk, punching through their monitors, or ranting online about gender equality and how a woman should get thick skin then taking a "conservative" route.
It is a fact that even if a women got to the highest rank of LoL, contractors are still less likely to give the women a spot compare to a male not because women have psychological or physical disabilities but because it's risky media attention from both liberals and conservatives because both liberals and conservatives are complete idiots who don't know what they are talking about and only aim to achieve the emotions of the public. Contractors don't pick women because now you have LoL thinking Siren and this team was a good idea even though of their controversy of their losses which poorly represents all women. I agree skill should be accounted for, but so should respersenation yet not on the level of skill.
You see back in the 1950's if a black male and a white male applied to college and the black male had just a little bit more to offer with skill than the white male. *The white male would still be picked over the white male because of how cultural surroundings affect us, and the racial implications of those times* We only choose to what our eyes are comfortable of seeing and that is white scrawny males in pro leagues we are not use to seeing females in the league so that kind of attention is risky.
Glad to finish off this argument, thank you.
I died when he said they opted to speed run the game instead of dragging it out. like damn.
That shit had me dead
You didn't die, you're exaggerating for effect to get likes which is quite sad.
Fr I died too
Take the Overwatch pro scene: 1 girl (Geguri). And why is she in there? Because she's good. Not because she's female.
Putting together an all-female team is just a really bad idea.
Doing so, automatically creates a "female vs male" atmosphere, which is so wrong and undesirable.
We don't need to proof, that women can beat men in eSports.
We need to look out for the best players and not have any preference in really anything while doing so.
Someone who actually gets it!
You mean "putting together an all-female team for the sake of having an all-female team" is undesireable, right?
@@wal_pur_gis It's a bad thing, regardless of the reason.
It's pretty unlikely that you will find 6+ top players that happen to be female and happen to form a team by themselves.
So if you ever see this, you know someone had a bad idea that has nothing to do with eSports, but personal social views.
And I don't want and don't need that in eSports. It's silly.
If I want that, I watch StarWars Last Jedi or something...
Imagine how much pressure those women were under, JUST by being a female-only team that has to proof something.
That's ridiculous.
I'm all for an individual proving they rock. But not "because" or "despite" someone is female.
Equality is about equal chance to participate not equal outcome... That's why all these actions movements things went wrong and put people into more extreme
Lord r/whoosh
I nearly died when you said they all play support
the team they fought also banned all the support champs
@@RensReckluse Because they all mained support.
@@frostdracohardstyle thats the joke good job bro
@@frostdracohardstyle i know
It’s kinda sad ngl , there’s plenty of females that can play the other lanes💀 oh well
I bet someone could 'SNEAK' into this team and carry
Who could this person be referring to? mmmhh...
Hmm
🤔🤔🤔
He would have to be pretty 'SNEAKY' ya know
I don't know
I think c9 already had their view on this "Sneaky" girl
Maybe you can accuse the delaying of the game as disrespect but the banning of five supports is justifiable, you can't accuse them for that because it can be considered as strategic play
It's just good strategy to take advantage of an opponent's weakness.
Isn't it that every player need a secondary champ to play in case of your pick getting banned? Like come on don't they have secondary picks?
@@r3ll282 one trick andies
Am I the only one that thinks their jackets are a straight rip-off of the 2018 SKT jackets?
Purposeful most likely
Who get benefits from this decisions?
The members become laughing stock
Women in esports now get looks down even further
Others teams lose one opponent for nothing
Vaevictis itself can't even sale their spot in LCL anymore
It’s amusing?
vaevictis beneftis i would bet that they didnt pay those women a dime more than riot requires
They had no roster and have to put a team into the league by the deadline. If they were going to go 0-14 with a bunch of randoms they wanted to at least try and have it be a publicity stunt.
It earns the company money. Publicity + prob not paying those women much = a good profit. The company was already dying, they don't care about the general view of women in videogames. They care only for profit.
@@Sisko526 diamonds dont get extra pay😂😂😂
"You cant be stretching the game out"
Alright well end the game in the time it takes to heat a pizza
Hello, brother
They did in another match
How did it take you 13 minutes to heat a pizza?
@@justinjakeashton well, it was probably made of some metal, so heating it in 13 minutes is actually quite the achievement tbh.
@@vigilanterorschach2600 Metal pizza? You mean a manhole lid?
Female streamers don't get "a little more attention".
I've seen streaming girls who eat cornflakes in sweatpants while watching someone else's game with 10k viewers.
Good luck with that as a guy.
show some skin dude
@@Big.Burger but alinity had to beg for a ban when she flashed hers lmaoo
Lol me
Hasan?
Thought the information on stereotypes was really interesting. However I don't think it accounts for the difference in interest between men and women. It's not that they aren't capable of going into tech they just would rather go into careers like marine biology or writing ect.
Like that she talked about her own personal examples of discrimination and not just generalizing. It was very realvealing
well said, women have their career preferences just as men do, that's why many schools are lowering the standards for women in certain fields, especially STEM, to hopefully encourage them to apply
in the end, women may feel inclined to pursue a career in a male-dominated field, but later on regret such decision simply because they do not enjoy it, and only signed up for it initially due to the incentives
@@Mr51seer yeah I disagree with lowering standards to let people into a program. People should be able to prusue what they want as long as they have the merit. I could have gone into computer science but it doesn't take into account my propensity for visual art. I find it hilarious when people act like women don't know about things like the tech industry as a potentially career. Like no I totally don't use technology on a daily basis.
Interest in ANYTHING is going to wean if you feel unwelcome and like nobody thinks you can be good enough.
@@sylviapuppysticker8664 expecting people to validate you constantly makes zero sense. If you know you are good and you do something well people saying otherwise is meaningless. I don't care if people flame me just BC I'm a girl when I play a game. It's a reflection of them, not me when they express that. I will do what I enjoy and that's that.
@@museoftheark1354 lol do you have maggots in your brain? Systematic stereotyping isnt 'expecting everyone to validate you at all times'.
Those players were d4 on average, but on Russia. Pro players from RU are playing on EUW, where they are chall/high grandmaster, so the diffrence is even bigger than if that would be d4 EUW player.
And some of them gotten to diamond because of Duo'ing.
russian diamond is legit low plat on euw
@@hatsuhioki9361 true, so if I was a female I can be pro in Russia? (All jokes aside the only way of those girls winning a game vs promos is to blowjob them to death).
Wait are you serious right now? I have bad news for you buddy.
Being challenger in Russia Is probably like diamond 2 in Euw
@@xXWorldgamefunXx you know the pro player lekrit , he hit challenger in EUW .
ey. i got to silver duo'ing so.
"I changed my name to TeddyLou, which is my dog. Everyone thought I was a little asian boy." I laughed.
how about trying one girl on the team and not 5 lol it seems to work for cloud 9
😂
Co-ed teams actually makes more sense than all female teams.
It’s not about being female, it’s about finding people who have high enough skill that just happen to be women.
Well the problem is that quite a few teams have houses that all the players live in. Ideally this shouldn't be an issue but with sexual harrassment coming to the forefront its a definitely a concern I imagine many managers have.
Or 5 girls, but not all support
Having "women"-anything with no substance past "WAMEN" is a failure from the start. The only real way to make it work is not to make any deal about a team or thing being "ALL WAMEN, GUYS", and just have them kick ass without another word.
Now I know why she is called Triggered....
Publicity stunt or no getting curb stomp isn't worth it, playing game at home and lost feel bad enough
its better to be stomped getting paid for it, than not getting anything back (like most of us)
Hey, I'm a 14 y/o girl who really wants to people league professionally when I grow up. Right now I'm only a gold 3 player, but I'm planning to use the time I have at highschool to refine my skills. I'm in my highschool's esports team, and though it isn't the best team it's helping me learn some of the Dynamics of esports. If being a professional player doesn't work out then I can always work at riot as a programmer.
A bit of some warning
DON'T be a programmer just bcz you like playing games. There are so many ppl who quit after first year of university in programming bcuz it was more different than they thought. That's true. So be careful and do a lot of research so you can know more about programming and if it's really your thing
@@nopenopenope1744 well I might not do programming for games, I really enjoy coding robots for robotics.
I mean don’t spent all your time in high school playing League and hopes to be a pro esports player. Because I think talent is a key element in esports, you cant just practice to be someone like Faker. Probably Should use your time to study and learning.
Dont quit even if people tell you shit, theres good people out there so dont listen to the trolls :) Being a girl isnt a disadvantage, people just want it to be seen that way for some reason!
Ah I'm in a similar boat except I always wanted to be a programmer and just try to get good enough at adc to climb elo, but I gotta say even if you get to like diamond it won't really matter as even the collegiate teams have usually master-challenger. I hope you can improve enough to get into pro-play thought I always find it sad that there are no girls in super high elos. Just make sure that you actually focus on school and stuff, esports is really lucrative.
You’re so damn underrated man. Hope you get the recognition you deserve for your efforts. Quality content 10/10
Why did these women agreed to form a low level team? Did they really believe they would do well with 3 supports? They themselves perpetuated the stereotype.
They admitted they wanted to get paid to game. Thats it. Well, one of the girls said it, and I guarantee the russian girls team was the same.
Sometimes it is just they like the idea of an all girls team so its like "yeah, why not hehehe".
And when they are told they can do anything and be anything blah blah, they really shut their brain off and dont think because they are told they dont have to.
Just do it.
Well, when you dont think, you make stupid mistakes.
It all sounds nice until it is practiced.
I'm getting really tired of this reductive argument of representation... "We need more representation in (insert public community here), the people in that community are being too prejudiced!" We're totally ignoring so many factors that play into this, including things that the male/female gaming community as a whole could be doing better for the sake of their image, and instead just saying "Diversity good, prejudice bad." While the statement seems well and good at first, we need so start realizing that gender prejudice isn't just a wall that needs to be pushed through. You're dealing with people that all have opinions, experiences, and flaws, so you can't just reduce your argument to saying something is bad. At the risk of sounding sexist, note the fact that both of the major all-female teams have players that are hostile to their teammates. Obviously not every female player is like this, not by a long shot, but the fact that patterns like this can be so easily drawn is why you're having this problem.
On the other side, a lot of guys I've seen in gaming communities don't realize how flat their jokes come off when talking to women in a game. I'm pretty sure a lot of low-mid level players that make jokes toward female players are trying to be friendly, albeit failing miserably. And, there's reasons behind this too, but I doubt anyone will care about those reasons because it doesn't support unflinching diversity-pushes enough.
This is a good video. As a female person who plays league, its extremely sad to see this type of thing happening because yea--it really makes it seem like we are our stereotype. it also made me realize that instead of changing to an adc/support main I really should just stick with mid.
I also deal with this kind of stuff in real life because I am in engineering. obviously it's not the same because usually people are more professional at corporate type jobs just still I definitely always stand out, and not just because I'm good at what I do.
Let’s not make this about workplace discrimination. Video game competitions are about one thing: skill and how you use it to get to the top
@@jackcola5513 scarlett, starcraft 2. since 7 years top 10 in non korean players of the game and around top 50 worldwide.
@@Pintkonan and your point is ?
@@jackcola5513 that you write bullshit/have no overview/clue of actual pro gaming scene. scarlett is female btw. maybe should have given you that info.
quote you: "look at the top hundred players of any game and you wont find a single female its because men are more skilled"
@@jackcola5513 well in my opinion, it depends on the play time of both gender, males tend to play longer (7+ hours) and more into League than females (in my observation, they play in average of 2 hours)
Best female Streamer/Pro Player of all time is no other than our grill Sneaky
honestly, seeing that comment so much, now that i think about it thats really insulting to actual female and even to that guy because he may not want to perceived as such
No one asked for your opinion
@@Momogamer9 Yeah, cosplaying as a girl every 3-4 months or so is like asking for him to be perceived as a boy, am I right? Quit shitposting around already..
@@vigilanterorschach2600 someone cosplays as a girl couple days in the year = okay to perceive them as a girl rest of their life.
O. K. shitposter.
@@ChadamGD uh duh?..
Allowed to complete as LOW DIAMOND? This is just sad man, I want to watch the best players, not players allowed in just because they're female.
Im late but just because they are female and they got in, thats what i would call sexist 100%. Im gold player but of anyone who is up low dia can be pro, then there would be 10x more teams than now. Its a joke with how low dia female players became pro coupled with all of then main support... It shouldn't happen to males no matter how you think about it. If its seeking some bs validation or being sexist idk what else.
Lol ik a lot of low diamonds and they are not even near challengers
Maybe you should build a team based on how well the players fit together and how good they are like normal people do it.
Regarding the gaming house, i think Scarra's offline TV House is actually a somewhat great example for gaming house infrastructure supporting both male and female even if it's not competitive gaming house.
True, only issue i have with that house is Fedmyster being super creepy when hes with the female streamers.
Well I have to agree but still the level of the female streamers in the Offline TV House is not as good as to be considered competitive enough. My friend which plays in LAN and has a diamond rank managed to destroy a fed Pokimane by himself being him an adc and her an Orianna. (LAN is considered a very low skill level server by many) And Pokimane for example is one of the worst players in that house, I would think that Lilypichu is better than her and her rank is not as high.
@@Gonnereccon She is boosted. She always duos with a smurf lmao and doesn't show she's playing normal - fooling everyone she plays rank on stream.
@@Gonnereccon U r so wrong. Pokimane is not bad, she is better than Lily or KP. She just play shit champs like Lux or Orianna. She plays versus Yassuo and she won the lane so. Dont say thing that aren't true
@@sansn7261 Would not agree with the KP one. KP might be a lower ranked player than Poki, but KP is actually the better player. In terms of mechanical skill, they're pretty much even but KP has better macro decision making. I honestly think the reason why KP is lower ranked is because she plays more roles than Poki does. All Poki plays is Mid or get forced into support. KP actually plays 3 roles well and tried out the other two from time to time and it's been proven time and time again that a single-role focus player will always have better and faster climbing experience than those who get tossed around roles.
Legitimately very well made, I remember the Siren memes so it was interesting to finally hear the other side other side of some of that mess was very eye opening.
It was disingenuous. The problem wasn't some "backlash", it was infighting that got worse because they got crushed in their fist game to a bunch of randoms.
Frid Kun didn’t they get stream sniped?
For me as a girl who playes LoL.
Im working so hard to get in myself in esport.
And it's start working. I'm a mid player my fav. Charachter is Akali. But i try to read and know anything about all of the other charachters. I wanna know every single , little thing about leauge and i try my best and play more and more and more.
In my free time i go to a porfessional trainer who help be being good more and more. I already have experience about how is it feels when u on stage and play front of thousands of people. Im really happy about that my dream in small peaces is come true. I try my best and im working hard everyday to get myseld into the real esport.
Padding the game for K/D is bad manners warranting the warning or even penalty.
Targeted bans are part of the game. Banning the opponents main characters is the thing you are supposed to do when in doubt.
That's what I was thinking too. Like, isn't the point of pick-and-ban in the pro-scene is to inflict a potentially damaging blow on the opponent team before they even start playing. This is why (I suspect) most players will specialize in multiple characters in their preferred class, so that for example, if Caitlin is banned (currently my main, just started playing League a week ago), a pro-ADC player can go to another one and not be completely outmatched.
But for this particular team, having three support mains and then losing out on five potential support characters? Well, that sucks and all, but that's the system working fully as intended. Though purposely drawing out the match just to inflate their kill ratio was wrong and deserved to be reprimanded in some fashion as that is not only wholly unsportmenship-like (especially for a pro-team), but it's also probably is rather dull to watch from a viewer perspective.
But banning five support characters from a team that had three support mains? I mean... yeah, why wouldn't they? Perhaps some saw it as stepping on someone who is already down on the ground as it probably was pretty clear from the gecko that this team was not going to be able to win and stand against this other team who had way more time to practice, learn, cooperate, and endure together as a whole.
It just makes it even more frustrating to think these girls were only used as a desperate play by a soon-to-be-bankrupt organization to gain some immediate publicity, and not because they genuinely thought they were right or had a shot of making it to the end. I honestly cannot imagine what the girls themselves were thinking or feeling throughout this tournament
Then don't be trash at the game if you don't want the enemy to pad their KDA
Women want representation in esports? Literally get good then. Simple as that.
thats hard tho
@@Ken-uh8md its supposed to be hard to go pro, thats why so many fail yet these 5 low diamonds somehow can make it
These sure got some. As a laughing stock, but still.
YEs, yes...but how Bully Hunters fit in all of this?
*WHO* ?
Bullymongers? Are we talking about the beasts of the Borderlands series?
Bully Hunters is single handedly the most retarded thing in the last decade.
and thats what its all about
Pffft hahaha
Unfortunately this team is also taking the place of a team/players who deserve to be playing professionally in the LCL. I’m sure there are plenty of Russian League players who would prosper if given the opportunity to play at the highest level, but the Vaevictus Organization has crushed their hopes by this publicity stunt.
Guess you didn't watch the video, they tried to sell the slot, no one was interested.
@@gettysb19 Just because no one wanted to BUY It doesn't mean no one had benefited from it.
Sad that they were set up to fail by an uncaring organization. Hopefully one day a female will be able to find good success in pro LoL.
There was one female playing Support for the Renegades a couple of years ago in the NA LCS. she was a trans tho
@@nevergonnafindme5778 I'm aware of Remilia of Renegades. Aside from her skills on Thresh though she never really was a stand-out player during her time as pro.
@@Flash33c She was a transgender, that doesnt count.
The real exemple was a taiwanese support from TPA that has good result when the regular support of the team was sick and couldnt play.
.... EASY ANSWER IS:
LESS WOMEN ARE INTERESTED IN VIDEO GAMES, THUS SMALLER TALENT POOL DUE TO LESS WOMEN PLAYING AS THE CHANCES OF A PROFESSIONAL HIGH LEVEL PLAYER REGARDLESS OF GENDER IS ALREADY SUCH A SMALL %OF THE PLAYERBASE, it is even smaller to find a woman of that caliber playing, thus explaining why women struggled in Esport.
Not hard to understand.
@@jmoa5758 This. Thanks.
I need to correct you. There is not a lack of representation of women in competitive gaming. There is however, a lack of women who wish to pursue competitive gaming on the top tier professional level. The "lack of representation" argument is at it's core, a politicized talking-point made by post-modern feminists who do not understand human nature via the sexes. Men tend to be far more competitive than women. This is found scientifically in the biological and psychological make-up of males. So to continue to peddle this narrative of "lack of representation" is to more or less, be the very supportive reason of failed teams like this, who throw females up on stage not for merit or skill-set, but rather, whats between their legs for moral-grandstanding points. Case closed.
No, competitiveness is not the variable. Think again.
Riot should be harsher on people in the actual fucking game being sexist against women playing.
I think there are a couple great female players that are able to be pros or at least academy level. But to get a full team of only females is to limiting at the moment.
My biggest issue with all this was it ignoring the LCS did have a female player Remilia, who was the support of Renegades. While she left do to other issues, she still climbs the ranks in multiple regions. She did end up playing in Latin America and placing 4 with Kaos under the name Sakuya. She left this to medical issues.
As for geguri, her aimbotting wasn't just an accusation, it became a bet. The players who accused her of it bet there career on it saying they would retire. All but one did when she proved them wrong. She in season one of the owl league was the best player the dragons picked up and she won then a couple maps even if they didn't win any matches do to other factors like language barriers from having a Chinese Korean split all speaking English.
So while we have a long way to go in eSports, these success stories shouldn't be underplayed either. And small advances like the female CSGO leagues and twitch rivals giving some top talent the chance to show off that they can play on a team and perform with the other top streamers and retired players are huge steps forward.
Lightswitch I think it doesn’t count, depending on when they transitioned. The whole argument hinges on societal pressure - and if they haven’t been experiencing the “you’re good, for a girl” side of this, then it doesn’t really apply. So, the answer’s not really a definite one, but possibly.
@Lightswitch I would argue she gets more harassment for being trans but a large amount of the community didn't know she was trans. She also was on the kitchen bandits which was what became team siren. If we are just talking about social pressures and not the biological argument because more of league is about understanding the game and not chocking, we can say she was by far put under more pressure and still came out ahead.
@Lightswitch She had a very very small following. I knew of her because of Chaox and i followed every thresh player at the time. Her twitch chat at the time put anyone that brought up her being the best female player or trans in timeout and she would say things like, "i dont want to be seen as the best female, i want to be seen as the best" which is the winning mentality I think about.
I'm not sure what her reason was at the time for leaving but I think it was stress. She hated being on cam and it wasn't until after her surgeries she started using facecam consistently. But from what i saw frollowing her, I saw more people saying she the best female player and not many bringing up the trans issue unless you dove deeper. Even her Wiki page doesn't bring up that shes trans so unless you are in the know, you mostlikely wouldnt know.
@@monkey7pyro ??? Chaox was an ADC, not a Thresh player.
@@jyashin she was his support on roar. The team failed but i think that's when I looked into her more. That or when she was on curse academy.
The amount of research you put into this is amazing keep it up man!
TR1GGERED uses "L9" in her soloq id btw, i think that says a lot as well XD
Yeah thats the typical Eastern Euro player for you. Toxic as fuck and supports L9.
Yes Yea Yep No Nope Its a meme at this point,u can buy slots on L9 clubs in any region for like 10eur,or u can be a girl and prob get inv for free lol.
yikes im an L9 fan myself but having such a person on anything remotely serious sounds like shooting yourself before a round of russian roulette
Complaining about "lack of female representation" (in any area) and making proactive efforts to mitigate this by "helping women" to get into an area, any area, is patronizing to women to the point of being derogatory, because it assumes that those women interested in the area are not good enough to get into it the same way as everybody else.
Try and change my mind.
The fact that you see it as a failure is an issue. The real reason women have a problem in professional gaming is because the core values of the dominant culture that is heavily influential in gaming culture do not respect women - thus jokes of rape, the worship and fetishization of asian women, sexualization of* women’s bodies in video games in an appeal to - well honestly men. But, racism also comes to play in this the disdain for dark skin exists as well in gaming culture along with homophobia; one could call gaming culture a true replica of America’s own immoral attitudes and disdain for minority culture. In all, women are not wanted in gaming culture, the disrespect and discrimination against women in games has been around since the well known statements of them not being allowed in hardcore guilds because of the “drama” that they bring. TLDR; women are not wanted in the field, thus they have no success.
Team Siren and now this, guess it’ll keep happening
full female team got catty and drama ensued.... color me absolutely shocked
What really matters is you dominate your role and you can play with others as a cohesive unit, your gender doesn't matter.
It doesn't change anything when it comes to your plays. However, it changes people's attitude.
@@Toxihex people's attitudes don't matter. Those don't cause you to go 0-14. And even if people hate, they can't deny your wins.
@@peterlopez2388 Dude are we commenting under the same video? Do I need to repeat the very content it is assumed you saw and heard to take part in this conversation? 1. She started climbing when people no longer knew she's a girl, and 2. a research showed girls that didn't otherwise underperform did so when the attitude of those around them was condescending only because of their gender. This IS a problem that actually causes less wins to happen, like it or not. Even the amazingly talented Overwatch pro girl was harassed into tears in a way that doesn't happen to any male streamer to this degree unless they've literally sexually abused children. It's the incel and thot mentality of people that needs to be seriously addressed, not dismissed.
@@Toxihex 1) I'm pretty sure that just the price of fame. Pretty sure they found out who she was and didn't want that attached to them. That's just the price of fame or in her case, infamy.
2) allowing the words of others to have that much of an impact on you is kind of pathetic. Listening to a white woman complain about that shit is hilarious. I'm a black, bisexual guy so the hate slung at me is pretty heavy but it's the words of haters and sore losers. The best way to deal with them? Beat them. Leave them stewing them in their own salt.
Either way, hate or not, they had no business playing pro. Not because of their gender but because of their sever lack of skill.
@@Toxihex if u play competitively, prepare to get harrassed daily. I experience this my self playing league, dota 2 on high elo and when u make a mistake that can lose u the entire game, ur teammates and community are gonna be for sure flaming u a lot since u were basically at fault. And u endure this and still climb up the ranks. The amount of effort players spend into playing competitive is huge so if that effort doesnt come to fruition, u shd expect to get verbally abused. I once had a team mate telling me to fcking kill my self, wanted my family to have cancer and etc..... Harrassment in a highly competitive game goes hand in hand regardless of gender. Just be sure to endure and suck it all up.
Watch Jordan Peterson explain the differences between genders in aggression, which can often be substituted for competitiveness, mixed with the fact that the player base as a whole is overwhelmingly male and its pretty elementary to see why there are so few women in the highest levels of esports.
It has absolutely nothing to do with girls subconsciously trying less hard because of a stereotype. Thats pretty much accusing the girls of being weak willed, which probably isnt what the almost feminist apologist tone of this video was going for.
Even though I dislike Jordan Peterson for his take on Religion I still think he's a smart man and your comment is on point. When this guy went with the stereotype bs I left the video...
It’s a time thing too, who spends more time obsessively playing a video game: a nerdy, lonely guy, or a girl who gets tons of attention by default?
"What made you pursue LoL as a career and did you acknowledge you may have had a disadvantage just because of your gender?"
Boi,
Her gender is her advantage. Her lack of skill was her disadvantage. If women want to be taken seriously in gaming than they have to git gud. I know it sounds mean but don't expect everyone else to slow down for you and simultaneously expect to earn their respect. Again, not trying to be mean.
Never hear about Nursing or School teachers lacking male representation.
Siren vs Vaevictis? I think Siren would still win, Vaevictis lack a lot of training and self discipline.
I love the research and work done on this. This channel certainly stands out from other league channels.
I work in STEM, electronics within robotics, and the brilliant female engineers are not stereotyped. They're too busy being successful to worry about such petty things.
The only women who complain about stereotypes are the ones who prove the stereotypes to be true. There's plenty of stereotypes about men, but it doesn't seem to hold us back.
Whilst it isn't LoL.. a good example of a pro-female player is Geguri who is a main tank in Overwatch who was RENOWNED for her high octane gameplay, insane reaction speeds and so on.. she is top 500 in the American scenes and places the same usually when based in the Asian scenes too. She was legitimately so good, many pro players repeatedly cried out she was an aimbotting cheater and if she did not prove herself innocent she was scum, if she did prove herself innocent - they would leave the proscene thEY WERE THAT SURE she was manipulating the games she based in. It got so bad for her Blizzard flew her out to a studio and livestreamed her gameplay and reffed what she did through out - surprise surprise, she was telling the truth in her own talents and the players did not retire and went back on their words. (One of these players are Xepher.)
What I am saying with this is... Geguri is beyond recognised in the Overwatch scene NOT because she is female, but because she has this past and current INSANE ability. Of course some of the community still screams that she doesn't belong and blah blah (it isn't advice or criticisms but pure sexist hate), but she IS merely renowned and focuses on being the best she can be regardless - yes, she stands up for women who want to also be in the scene and wants to be a standard, but she has proven to be a HIGH STANDARD if that makes sense...
(Yes, I know this is talked about in the video, but truly, just Geguri holds a LARGE part in my heart; I'm not Female and the only harrassment I've faced online is due to my sexuality but she is somebody I IDOLISE.. and so some tiny facts from that felt good to put there)
I actually think Geguri is generally overrated and probably shouldn't be in OWL...but I think the same of a couple players in the OWL so the possible degree of bias that led to her being there is not that significant so im generaly fine with it.
And we have pretty strong evidence of that bias when we look at the male player in OW who decided to pretend to be a female for a little bit and performed at roughly the same level. He was almost instantly picked up by a contenders team just because he said he was a girl...Also I feel like you overestimate how much people didn't believe Geguri or how rare it is for players that appear kind of out of nowhere to be asked to prove they are actually good. The difference is that when the person being accused is male theres no assumption of sexism or anything like that so it doesn't get any large scale attention.
@@DIVAD291 White knights always have to puff up women. We love them, it is our evolution. Some just put them on high pedestals sadly.
it was obvious he was exaggerating the hate she got. Plenty of guys get the hate. I see video after video discussing this or that guy.
Sigh... It is like when they talk like women are the only ones getting hate online or get most of it, but studies show this isnt true at all and any guy knows this isnt true.
Heck, I see streams all the time with trash talking about everything possible.
But when its aimed at women, we gotta freak out and put them in a safe zone. Poor girls cant take the competitiveness.
Holy shit, I hadn't heard they were mostly actual support mains.
And were boosted to diamond to appear more pleasible
+Micquan Dawson Source? Or are you just stating that because they're females.
Theres good amount of dislikes on this video and its sad.
You guys really cant take it that most men just happen to practice more and are better in general in the pro scene.
Dont be mad because he told it how it is.
The dislikes are because the video is spewing blatant misinformation regarding differences between male and female performance.
I like how they made add nami valid for 1 match
This video seems to ignore a basic fact. Women are individuals first. You will find they have different passions and goals then men. You won't see a 50 50 distribution because less women want to actually play. With a smaller player pool you will have a harder time finding people in that group who will be at the level of a professional player. I'm sure there are some but it will be harder to find. With that said. Yeah there is a perception issue that women are not as good. Which isn't true. Its just not as easy to find because there are so few because so few women will make the attempt to become that good. Just look at how many people in general who make that attempt and fail.
I disagree with your conclusion that its sexism keeping women out of e-sports.
Your completely ignoring the very real fact that men are more prone to extreme behavior then women. Which is to say that women are less likely to obsessively put in the hundreds of hours necessary to become a world class player. Not that it's very likely for a man to go that far either, just that of the very few weirdos that will play the same video game all day every day tend to be men rather then women.
You see the same thing in corporations where after climbing the ladder of promotions to a certain point, female executives and managers will just stop trying to advance. Not because they can''t, often they will even knock back promotions. Simply choosing to focus on family, hobbies or other non-work activities. Many men will also make the same choice, just the few who will put in the insane hours needed to become the CEO of a fortune 500 company tend to all be men. I think forbs wrote an article on this phenomena.
Just giving this a little rewatch after the kick off, who could have guessed, disbanding soon.
New phone. Who dis?
Well made video man. The formatting was perfect for the topic. How everything was introduced flowed nicely. The subject is controversial but you managed to make it as factual as possible and not put your opinions on the front line.
I hope one day, there can at least be a few female pros that aren't used for their gender but for their undeniable skills.
Hope to see more vids soon!
I'll make your comment as my motto
Well you just used their gender so double standard. Why do you want "female pro players"? Just say you want good pro players.
There is no underreprentation, it's people not being interested. And if you are interested do something instead of whining about how it won't work because the world is unfair.
simple answer: women like cute things, and would rather play with cute things.
so thats why they dont play every champ in the game in order to get better. Also mental is a big issue since women more likely would rather watch drama related shows than most other genres.
For the guy who lost his mind at the end of the stereotype chapter, i agree about that. The guy who scouted ilysuiteheart, didnt want a toxic team environment but still wanted to play with her since he thougt she was good.
For the harassment on streams, it has happened to everyone who streams. Ive heard the exact same thing happen to guys and to big/small streamers. Its not good at all in either situation.
For women trying to go pro, id say to climb to challenger and get into the top 100 by playing many roles and make sure all roles are challenger level. And keep practicing for long periods of time each day. If you are at that level, go pro and develop a mental to stay cool under any kinds of pressure. The moment you lose your cool, is when guys will act like wolves on a hunt. If you can stand your ground with good comebacks and the skills to back you up, then guys will respect you 100%. Also /mute all in league or mute the toxic people in game when you play so that all you need to do is focus on the game.
I gotta admit, the whole situation around Vaevictis sounds like a movie premise. A pro sports franchise being forced to field a team of amateurs due to financial problems is just amusing regardless of the players' genders.
League doesn't ask you what gender you are when you win a ranked game to decide how much lp you get.
I will admit there are ridiculously immature people online. but guys deal with it all the time and brush it off.
Everyone brushes it off. When I get harassed on my game because of my gameplay, I brush it off(I don't have a nickname which will indicate I'm a female). But when I get comments on my gender and when I see gender stereotyping comments, that's when I discourage. Because your gameplay is something you can change and fix. But your gender isn't. Even if you say "Well, these stereotyoes are wrong! I won't let them get to me." It still stays in your brain and when you play slightly bad you think "Maybe I will never imrove because I'm a female." Because of all the things you heard throughout your life. It is not only one comment, if it was then we wouldn't call it "stereotype" we would call it "just a stupid comment".
@@denizkaragullu6239 That's trash talk and is present in every form of competition in existence. You either have the mental fortitude to brush it off and keep moving forward or coward down and give up.
@@nemilperez5441 I know it's trash talk and I'm not saying it's impossible to brush it off or it makes you coward down or anything like that. But stereotypes are more than trash talk because they are things which have built up in our society over time and they are here in our brains for so long, even if we know that it's wrong now, it is hard to just erase it. This doesn't only apply to "playing games as a girl", of course, it applies to every stereotype. It can be a real discouragement and a barrier for people to improve. But of course we shouldn't let these thoughts get to us, after all we are different human beings with different titles and adjectives. And these adjectives shouldn't affect each other in any way.
@@denizkaragullu6239 Stereotypes are also trash talk. The point is that in battle the enemy doesnt care about your feelings.
You may think it is just a game but you also have to understand that men evolved for battle, whether against other people, animals, or nature, and to this day we always must be prepared. Look at the people fighting forest fires, hurricane destruction, wars, etc...
So even in games, it is us using our evolved skills to become the best at what we do, to win. So trash talking has few limits.
If you cant take being made fun of for your gender, you cant handle the competitive scene and shouldnt waste their time. Stereotypes are usually based on some truth and if you disagree, then fight back with skill and show them you are not the stereotype. At the moment you are perfectly exhibiting the stereotype of overly emotional weak women who cant take trash talk. That is it. Your excuses dont help you.
Even though the proof is in the pudding, let's just ignore all that.
Thank you so much for the documentary. I'm really not sure why it's 1/4 disliked, since it provides good impartial information and wants to support female players.
I hope the female pro player scenario grows, but unfortunately it has to be with a slower approach.
The dislike ratio is like that bc sjws who watched and didn't like it disliked
@@SanSanFTW This isn't even opposing sjws. It's addressing both sides.
@@Rickfernello I don't think SJW's like fair and balanced arguments. Granted, I'm not exactly convinced by the referenced study. I'd really like to see physical tests result for reflexes and coordination.
underepresentation doens´t exist either your good or not, there nothing underepresented because the best are alredy there playing...
Just by looking at them one can tell its highly unlikely they picked the 5 most skilled female league players.
I feel it needs to be pointed out that your interpretation of the data on gender differences in motor performance, gaming behaviors, and competitive tendencies is WRONG.
While it is true the AVERAGE female and AVERAGE male have no difference in "gaming abilities" or cognitive capabilities, this does not hold true at the extremes. If you look at the bell curves of men and women in cognition and coordination related tasks, the female bell curve is taller towards the center, indicating that most women are at or around the average of both females and males. The male bell curve is much shorter and WIDER, indicating that there are both men who are extremely good at things more often then females, as well as extremely bad at things more often then females. In order to play competitive E-Sports at a high level, you must be in the top hundredth of 1% of all players, this places you at the very high end of the extremes. There are more males in this range than females, plain and simple.
So no, the misrepresentation of females in E-Sports is not due to discrimination and stereotype bias, it is due to BIOLOGICAL drivers in primarily 3 categories: Interest, cognitive capability, and coordination.
That's just they way we're built. Males have more Einsteins, but they also have more Ted Bundys. The trade-off has its benefits and its detriments.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The problem might be biology to some extend my friend, but saying that that solely is the reason why there are no female pro players is absolutely ignorant.
Yes women might not find gaming interesting but if you take the base of female psyche in consideration and the fact that how many females are attracted towards arts and feelings and people in general, this is not statistics, but video games are an amazing arena for a female's psyche to go wild.
So yeah it has to do something with biology but it has a lot to do with the toxic sexist community and stereotypes AS WELL.
I know about the bell curve statistics but it doesn't stand for everything and again, it's not the solution.
See there are billions of women out there, and you're saying that none of them can become a pro because Biology? That's extremely ignorant. A woman has to face a lot more shit than a man online, and if you can't accept that simple fact then that ends the argument.
So yes your argument is correct, but you're wrong for saying that harassment and stereotypes don't affect women's progress.... These things have some serious effects on people's lives... Like... I really don't know how to explain it but if someone faces these things on a daily level.... Success will be an untouchable dream for them cause there lives would just pass in recovering from their traumas.
@@shreyarishi9524 not really... I mean have you ever played a league game. I can easily say that I have been told very VERY BAD things and my play style didn't get better or worse because of that and you can easily mute or report people without much problem. So saying that women can't find or have a hard time finding a place in Pro Esports spotlight is not because of toxicity or flames you only get that if you play bad and you say that you are woman then ofcourse angry people in a competitive game will attack you with things targeted towards women just as they would target me about saying things that would be hurtful towards a man. It is just that simple when it comes to online games there will always be that person or people who tries to make your life hell. Oh and also saying that a woman face more toxicity online is just stupid maybe you have gotten used to it but I can garantee you that a female player doesnt get more toxicity that only seem like that because you don't see a female player a lot in competitive games and because of that you see it as something worse for women while not even seeing how much toxicity a man gets for making even the slightest mistake. But then again you said '' That's extremely ignorant. A woman has to face a lot more shit than a man online, and if you can't accept that simple fact then that ends the argument. '' so I guess there is nothing you want to discuss...
Oh and a little side note; I am not saying that women in Esports or in casual games don't get harassed but that is mostly because of experiences regarding these situations most likely were bad ones and that is why many people think that a pro women team will just fail again and the only way to change peoples mind is to prove that a pro team composed of women can actually win maybe a match or the competition itself until then this stigma won't go away. But if you ask my personal opinion on this matter: ''Give a chance to people prove themselves.'' That is pretty much it.
Civan Hakbilen Can we stop denying that sexism exists? Please???
This may also partly explain why men are the ones who invented most of the things we used throughout History
@RamenBombe He didn't deny that sexism exists. I believe the point he as making was that sexism doesn't prevent women from from doing something they really want to do.
"L9" tr1ggered...
Plz stop
There is no problem with representation in gaming. If anything it's way too easy for women to get propped up in gaming.
Alright bois. lets make it happen.
*VAEVICTIS VS SIREN*
Whoa, women aren’t in STEM fields because they choose to not participate in those fields not because of any social or cultural barriers. Check your self my dude.
This really annoys me so much. I feel ilysuiteheart emotional stress on just talking about her experiences
God Tier Lee cry more you weirdo virgin, go play with her shes a bronze player like you
@@constitutional3559 Holy crap, being anonymous really shows how toxic a person can be.
@@khaghaghohan The toxicity of our city, of our ciiitty.
@@constitutional3559 Ah damn, took me this long to realize, skankhunt... that explains it. I'm ashamed of myself for not noticing sooner. Such a disgrace
I really appreciate this video! I think it's stupid to make a whole female team. Why not just focus on the skill? And all female teams in which every player mains support, is just insulting to me. I'm personally not the best comp. player but this stereotype that females only play support and healers in video games really annoys me.
just a lil rant:
And I hear way too often people saying that getting harrassed and so on in online games is normal and to "get over it" but there is a difference between getting harrased because you weren't performing well/the other person was tilted, or if you get harrased because you are a female.
LittleBabyBat yeah but at the end of the day they are harassing you for being female because that’s the most glaring characteristic and makes it much easier to abuse when there is that obvious of a difference... female gamers are not the norm they are unnatural therefore girls will either get abused or flirted with, there is virtually no middle ground really, it’s not so much a sexist thing as it is striking at the obvious difference, I speak with an audible lisp so if I speak in game and someone is tilted or thinks I’m playing like shit and I try to defend myself and they hear that lisp... you better believe the rest of the match is going to be them ragging on it because once again it’s the obvious difference
If they have the skill the person should have equal chances of being able to play in the pro scene.
Bold of you to assume it is the same for physical sports for a girl to perform the same compared to men. That's not what millions of years of evolution says. Different hormonal profiles, biological purposes, bodies, skeletal structures, etc. The fact that we have to have this debate today just goes to show how hard the media and faulty "scientific" surveys are pushing their stance. It's all about backing up the narrative with emotions ain't it?
Or, hear me out on this, the under-representation is caused by the fact that significantly less women care to get seriously into video games than men? Because other hobbies catch their interest more?
0:49 look at them smile, idk if its because of how the game went or because theyre shaking the women's hand
Judging by how they smiled and looked down, its pretty obvious they’re smiling at them on how shittty the girls’ performances are.
We just want good players no matter who they are.
Otherwise great video, but the studies linked are just trash. They don't even prove what you're trying to state that they do. Quote "The overall findings suggest that differences between gender in eSports indeed exist, with
different objectives while playing video games. However, it also proposes that the gap between the skills of genders is not significant, and the performance of gaming is not much different between gender." This is just complete conjecture since we know full well in every competition the difference between a pro and an amateur is exactly what you'd in daily life call 'not significant'. There's nothing preventing me from being a pro player, except for some 'non significant gap between the skills of me and a pro'. Both studies leave with more guidelines on how the massive difference between genders in esports could be improved, but doesn't provide anywhere near enough data to suggest that there don't appear to be any differences between genders.
The reason stated in this video for differences is participation in STEM fields is also just a complete mischaracterization of why women don't choose STEM fields. We know it's for a lack of interest and that's not something that can be fixed unless you take away women's right to choose and FORCE them into STEM.
Something I find funny is that, they said it was a publicity stunt to show that girls can play video games too, yet all of them are supports LOL
I'm a female and I just turned 14.
I want to break into the pro scene when I'm done with highschool as a *real player* and not as a publicity stunt.
It will happen and I will make sure it does.
I’d suggest preparing a plan B
Oh course I'm keeping up my GPA. Im not number one in my class, but I'm definitely up there, so it'd be a surprise if I didn't get into a good college.
But that doesn't mean I should give up on what I want to do.
And what I want to do is become a notable female player. None of this heart broken sensitive feminism playing on all girls team stunt publicity bs but a real player that won't give out under the pressure. I'll be someone whos just as good in the esports scene without a dick swinging in between their legs ✌
@@ithinkweshoulduseglyph.657 Good luck
Team Siren is that you?
For a second I thought you said you were Kuro.
I've been playing way too much Sekiro lol.
I think another issue in regards to an all women pro team not working out is because there isn't much role diversity in league for women. Most girls main support, adc, or mid. Rarely jungle or top. I think to break the barrier for women in league esports, it has to come from the big franchises (i.e. TSM, TL, CLG, C9, FNC, G2, etc.) making a move to include a really good female player on their team. They have resources to protect and help them achieve their highest potential.
From a logical standpoint, there are concerns regarding having a female on a team full of males when teams currently live in the same house. I think for females to truly come into the league, team houses need to be removed (which I personally agree with doing regardless)
@@RiotBrosGaming That's never happening. You absolutely need team houses, because being a pro gamer is a 24/7 job. How are you supposed to conduct scrims or team practice without being in the same location? You expect them to do it online?
And team houses have proven their worth. This is the pro scene, not your local 2k MMR pub tournament. The infrastructure, which includes team houses, is concluded to be the biggest reason why Korea dominated eSports for so long.
@@jyashin Um... Some north american teams already have a seperate office for scrims. It can also be a good thing for players to have separation from their team mates at some point. Everyone needs a break from others occasionally, working with people and then staying with said people 24/7 is not great for a lot of relationships.
@@RiotBrosGaming Oh I agree the 24/7 thing is absolutely horrible. But that's what it takes to make it on the pro scene. It's also why the average League pro's career is less than a season. You know what SKT's reward for winning worlds was? A 3 day vacation.
@@jyashin But you can spend all day playing and scrimming with the team and then go home. Echo Fox does it. Im pretty sure there is another team that does it as well, just cant remember which.
I can't speak for stereotypes causing the discourage of female players entering e-sports teams but research in educational science and didactics show that positive female rolemodels and encouraging women plays a tiny to no role of women choosing their careers.
The issue is this, we don't need a Woman team, you need to make a good team, and if they happen to be woman its fine. But the issue is the Media and all woman groups wanna prove woman are better so, they over hype crappy woman teams. Its like the WNBA claiming they can beat the a NBA team, or Woman soccer claiming they are better than the mens team because they can beat other woman up, but yet, they forget to mention, they get beat up by youth 15 boys team.
Hey man, Kudo-s to you for making an eloquent and well rounded video on a topic that usually just ends up being a total shitshow. I like your style.
We've been baited and outsmarted twice now.
Amazing vid man, I'm hella excited for the next ones
The story about the support guy who rejected her as jungler because she is a girl made me think about how privileged I am bcs I am an european white decent-financed boy
So VE intentionally fielded a troll team, expecting to losing and then cry when the other teams don't take them seriously?
Baited and Outsmarted
And i thought her name was pronounced "I love you suiteheart"
Talking about ankote?
That's what it means
I am the reason this post no longer has "69" likes
Muahahahahhahaha
Ok, you gotta admit, the self irony video is golden here
I have some question, why is important to have female representation in pro play?
If women are just not interested in it.
Rayon811 probably because liberals like quotas and think women are “underrepresented” when in reality women are perfectly represented since women are just not as interested in gaming as men are. Just my 2 cents, there are probably other reasons.
It's true that tons of women aren't interested in it, but there's also tons of that are. Having a precedent that shows that women can also compete in esports helps aspiring women who want to get into the field do so, increasing the field in both size and its image of being an all-inclusive, non-gatekeeping sport. It's unfair as hell for people like ilysuiteheart to get denied a spot just because she was a woman, so if there was a larger representation of them in the scene discrimination like that wouldn't be as likely
The reason why women aren't "interested in it" is mainly a stereotype thing as well, which can make it hard for women that are. One's upbringing and childhood plays a major influence to what they want to pursue, and im sure as you all know, girls would be introduced to "girly" things while boys will be introduced to "boyish things." That along with what's in the video is why imo. Can't really think of any other reason to why women are so uninterested in esports that the representation of them is so small compared to men
@@Sabbathfaax where do you think the stereotype came from?
@@SearedBite There isn't an concrete answer to this and there are many reasons as opposed to one, but I'd say one of them is cuz of so many years of men doing the "hard work" and women doing the "cooking and cleaning." I'm NOT saying that it was a bad thing that this was how it was (after all, men are biologically stronger, not one can argue with that), but it has made it seem like for many, that NO women can do hard work, when that isn't true. It also means you can't outcast all women in a field just because of a statistic. Being more welcoming towards women allow those who are actually capable not be unfairly discriminated for their gender. Video games historically being marketed towards as boyish things doesn't help either
Reminds me of how a lot of people see black people in the us. Yes, a lot of them do commit crimes, but that doesn't mean every single one of them do, and treating them as so is incredibly unfair.
Her teamates asking "can you not feed?" shows women are just as toxic under stressful situations as men can be.