DIY Carbon Fiber Intake Manifold: 3D Printed Plug and Mold Making (Ep.71)
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2020
- In this episode, I show the process of developing a custom carbon fiber intake manifold for my project. From the development of a cardboard template to a 3D printed plug to make the mold. Follow along as I get rolling on the next phase of the project.
throttle-stop-garage.creator-... 
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I've waited for these types of videos on the production of carbon fiber parts for years! Thank you so much for taking the bull by the horns and diving in head first into the unknown. I've learned a great deal from your trials and errors and will always owe you a debt of gratitude for your hard work and these great videos.
Glad to help! Just trying to get some real information out there that those of us working in our garages will find useful.
I have watched most of your videos. The explanations are appreciated and your knowledge is now our knowledge! Thank you.
Thanks Shawn - that's the objective of the work.
Another great video 👍. I really like how your real & humble. It’s awesome how you show your flaws. Excited for the other videos.
Thanks - I just hope people find the content useful.
Another killer episode. I've watched every single one, finally caught up. You deserve a lot more subscribers, fantastic content
Thanks! Doing what I can to learn and help.
Just wanted to say that you have inspired me to get up off the couch and get back into the garage!
Its fantastic to see someone give such detailed and realistic advice.
Thanks - I'm glad the videos helped!
Hi buddy, I've just found your channel while looking for some information to start making my own carbon parts.
I just want to say thank you for giving out such good, clear information. You've definitely helped me out!
That's fantastic! Glad the videos were useful.
If you visit this guy for detailed work this mental, don't ask how much...let him name the price! Appreciate the knowledge being shared!
LOL - thanks - I don't sell parts. Just doing this for myself.
@@ThrottleStopGarage well keep it up buddy, I'm always ready to take notes for the same thing ; )
Thanks for your videos , RUclips needs more of this!
Glad you think so!
I really enjoy this series! You are doing such a great job of it, I just had to. The 5 pot is going to make this whole project be even better!
Thanks - love the engine noise of a 5 cylinder.
Yet another smashing video....love your enthusiasm and candour
Thanks again!
Can’t wait for Part 2! This is really good stuff!
Thanks - working on it right now.
this is without a doubt one of the best build series on YT
Thanks!
I like your videos ! Super work 👍👌🤙can't wait for the new videos ! All the best from Switzerland Daniel
Thank you very much!
I always think if you're not challenging yourself enough, you won't find a setback point. Good looking molds!
True - if you're not pushing...what's the point?
Another very helpful video Throttle! Cheers. Doug
Glad it was helpful!
This is going to be soo cool, keep up the good work!
Thanks! Will do!
Awesome video! Wouldn't have minded watching it in real time. I'ma subscribe on my way to part 2...
Awesome! Thank you!
Greetings from Australia! In 1982, when I still lived in New York, the first car I owned was a 16 year old, off-white, 1966 122S with 68,000 miles on it. I had done a decent job restoring it before I t-boned a VW Scirocco that ran a stop sign - a very sad day indeed. In any case, I'm amazed with what you're undertaking. I need to watch a few more videos to determine if you're a genius or a raving lunatic!!! A little of both I'm guessing! Regardless of that - keep it up - I really can't wait to see this thing going down the road.
Hi Ken - I'm sure it's a bit of both.
Best video, I have one suggest, in the big mold, create a grange or "border" to use for scroll to the flange. Use another wood and cut a holl around 2 cm more small to the limit off the mold
Awesome upload and great attitude!
Definitely subscribing!
Thanks heaps from South Australia🇦🇺😎🤜🏼🤛🏼🍀🍀🍀
Thanks and welcome to the insanity.
"Get all Dexter with it"- Funny!
"Why am I not more depressed than I am...?" - love it.
I only failed 3 times making these molds!
Super la vidéo avec beaucoup de techniques...merci encore 😉
Merci!
It would be great to see the finished car, running engine and all. You wouldn't have to stop creating just cause you finish the car. Content is very appreciated!
Thanks - I'm hoping to finish this thing one day. Just don't ask when...
great Video really sums up the work well ..
Glad you enjoyed it
I love your channel! This gets me hyped to start pulling apart my 94 Mazda RX-7. Need to get some cameras to record it though.
You can do it!
whow that last mould release was full on.
Yup - popped right out.
I am consistently amazed at your persistence, perseverance and a desire to consistently be at it. Loved your 15 questions sessions elsewhere on the tube. Thank you for sharing. I stumbled upon The Saint a TV series from the U.K. and Love the show for it's writing and dry humor. The car used by Roger Moore is a Volvo P1800 and my guess is that it is the same as the Amazon/122 in terms of engine etc. Like you I do like the older European designs, there is an elegance to it, more a seductive sultry look and feel than the sexy muscled look of the American designs from the same time period. I have never built anything out of Carbon fiber ever, don't have a garage(live in a brownstone apt in Brooklyn), but I have a 23 year old pickup truck and I was wondering if I were to embark on making a carbon fiber truck bed I would shave of a considerable amount of weight and make it more efficient than it is. But not sure how I would go about it. One can dream :). Thank you for sustaining and sharing with content that is meaningful. I have never understood the people who feel obliged to give content a thumbs down, if one doesn't like something they don't have to watch, but ridiculing isn't warranted, one can critique at best even then I'd hope it is constructive. (People, shaking my head)...
Thanks for the positive vibes. I'm always trying to help others building in their garage. Carbon fiber has been a real learning experience. Anything is possible - even a truck bed.
In this episode one crazy/genius Canadian is getting a good sweat :P
This whole series is great man, I've spent many hours watching :)
LOL - thanks. It's a little warm in the garage right now!
Best noise ever. Unless you're ice fishing
LOL. For sure.
Hi Craig, Excellent moulds. 3D printer !!!! Might have to get myself one of these and give it a go. Filleting wax makes the job so much easier. I've had the same problem with the gel coat, but now we always seal the surface before coating, takes more time and money but no problems .Ian in G.B
Thanks Ian. 3D printing is a game changer for car stuff. I've got 3 - they serve different purposes and my first printer made the printer I was showing. I needed to learn to print for ideas I had for work. This was the first time I used them for molds, but as we move along, you'll see the printer more often. The fact that I can take an idea and turn it into a complex thing in short time is so cool.
have you ever made a plug from a hand carved block of wax ? I've been thinking about it for ages .
@@incolink nope. Sheet wax is used from what I understand. Everything I've done is on this channel.
@@ThrottleStopGarage yeh i just wonder if someone has would it work and why /why not ."in theroy" it makes sense ..no 3d print and skips both CAD models i mean the cardboard and computer ones you could probably lay the gel coat straight to it
destroy it with a heat gun if it didn't release ..
this is awesome. thx for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for showing the process! I just ordered my first hot melt glue gun. I have always managed without one, but I decided that if I have it, I will find a use it. Nice to see how you use one in your process.
Buy the best glue gun you can. One of the most useful tools in my shop. I ditched a cheap one that I bought and went with the Stanley that you see - so much better.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I never thought of them as a real tool, because I had only ever seen the cheap craft ones. But I went straight to the 3M (uses the 5/8x 2" sticks). I got the "low melt". I was tempted to get both high temp and low temp.
Surprized how much you are using that "savage" angle grinder. Lol, Seriously great episode.
I got the plug down to the precise size that I needed give or take 2 thousands of an inch.
Great job
Thanks Andy
You literally have one of the best channels on RUclips! You are a genius! What is your profession?
Wow, thanks! Scientist...not the mad kind.
Nice video! Only video I can find of using 3D printing to build molds. Only if 3D printing was so much faster and reliant. But it is still the way to go for hobbyists and small productions.
3D printing with larger nozzle is what's needed. Layer heights at 0.6 mm and above make large parts fast.
Throttle Stop Garage, I’m planning on starting a business in building F1 style go karts. I’m currently in college and researching on the side. Thank you for your information.
I’m planning on using the 3D printer to create molds and fill it with resins. I would like your opinion of this approach.
@@TheLeoNemeaeus there is no reason it won't work.
Very interesting!
Thanks
Put rubber furniture bumpers on your parting planes before you lay up the first mold half and you’ll have integrated alignment fixtures built into the mold.
Great tip!
great energy :)
Thank you 😁
Awesome👍
Thanks 🤗
I've been catching up on the series and so far I'm loving it. It's the most detailed diy carbon fiber composite series I've found.
If you don't mind me asking, how are you dealing with galvanic corrosion between the carbon fiber and the steel?
Also have you heard of dacron tape? I've only heard of it used in aerospace and also only in wet layups, but it's essentially like peel ply but when you take it off the part at a later date, it will have an infintesimal layer of uncured epoxy. The benefit being that you can either add a new layup or another dacron taped piece and you will not have a discontinuity in the epoxy chemical bond.
Hi Luke, Most of the fasteners I've used are stainless and have wide glue flanges and the adhesive is not squeezed out of the joint. So the remaining epoxy isolates the two materials. Fiberglass veil is used for this as well, though I've not seen the need. It's more of a problem with aluminum parts and we'll face that coming up with the intake manifold. Many adhesives are now designed to prevent direct contact of the carbon to the metal.
@@ThrottleStopGarage if you have a multimeter you can use it in continuity test mode to check if you're going to have a problem. basically put one probe on the stainless steel nut/bolt/whatever, and the other probe somewhere on the carbon surface. if your multimeter beeps then you have an electrical connection and may be facing galvanic corrosion down the line.
btw thanks for the videos, they are great. nice to see other regular folks succeed with carbon fiber, it's not just the Easy Composites guys that can do this stuff. : )
@@ssranon Understood - I'll have a check. Should be fine.
Nice video. Ironic cause I’m in the middle of doing a video on taking a 3D print to finished carbon part as well but you beat me to it! I printed with a .4mm tip so can go right to the high build primer but otherwise will be doing it the same way. Not sure if you follow “The Fab Forums” but he just did a carbon intake as well.
Interesting. I did see that Fab Forums had just released his videos. A couple of tips - make the walls thicker than you normally do (final mold had 2 mm thick walls and I could have done 3 mm). The heat of the exotherm did distort the plug (just a little) but the gel coat and the veil layer held the initial shape just fine. Limit the number of CSM layers to 2 at a time to try to control the heat. For sure don't use urethane high build, or make sure it's fully cured. Duratec VE was completely fine.
The OVER SPRAY ** You maybe right, but don't spray enamel paint with out cloaking EVERYTHING.
My Brother and I found out the hard way that the over spray sticks to everything , but like the lacquer he was used to spraying on cars..
He has been living with a "Pink" garage floor for the last 20 years after shooting RED Enamel on a truck.
OPssie !!
I do have drapes for when it gets serious. When I shoot a little clear on small projects, it's not worth it.
Thats way ..ah ha ah ha ... I like it !!
Awesome stuff
... then there are those modern errr. "design thinking" text book warriors.
Little do they know ..their text books were written by us old school BREAD BOX MODEL MAKERS !!
You are literally my kind of DIY
Thanks for the positive feedback.
i think the dual plenum with the slit would have been a worthwhile upgrade to the design it helps with equalising air distribution to each runner you see it alot in older race cars ..
There is no such thing as an upgrade on a first design! Heinz Lehmann is an excellent race engineer and I'm sure implementing his ideas would have merit. I have no reason to believe that air distribution in this plenum is going to present a problem. I've seen some half-baked CFD stuff online - but if you look closely, they're usually just quick renders that lack detail. Runner length and having proper runner entry flow characteristics would be more important than the shape of the plenum. That said, there is a reason I've tilted my plenum (and so does everyone else...that isn't building them out of old fire extinguishers)...so unless there is some real problem, I didn't see the need to make a hopelessly complicated project more complicated!
Surprised you didn’t add any registration details for the mold halves aside from the fasteners.
Looking forward to seeing how you tackle infusing the female molded parts with deep recesses!
Not really needed as the fasteners were drilled with a close tolerance hole. So there is only one way that these go together with all the fasteners. I could have added keys - but I was having enough fun with this series of molds!
Throttle Stop Garage The proof will be in the pudding (or the flash?) you’ve done an awesome job figuring it all out as you go so far so I’m sure it will turn out well. Looking forward to the next one. I really respect your trade skills
Engine stuff
Ya, moving along!
Nice
Thanks
Appreciate the effort in making and sharing this vid. I am having some issues with my own diy. Any one with any advise would greatly help. (Didnt know where to seek help, sorry if im intruding your post).I made a 2 part split mould out of my small cc motorcycle airbox manifold following some of your vids. The stock one came in rubber, so i purchased a stainless steel aftermarket one and made a mould out of it. Nothing fancy, just 40mm x 250mm x 1mm(inner wall thickness) with a slight angular bend. After i separately(wetlay) made 2 halves from the mould, I am having difficulty putting the 2 pcs together. I am using 3sheets of 2x2 200gsm. 1)I tried sanding the inner part, putting the 2 halves back into their mould, add epoxy with black pigment along both of the seams. I then screw both halves hoping the 2pcs will hold when dry. The joints couldn’t hold any pressure and snapped when I try to squeeze the tube testing to see the strength. 2) I made another 2 halves again, but this time, I added a small strip of CF in-between the seams to act as a reinforcement in the inner part of the 2halves, along the seams. This time the finished piece holds up in strength but this process proof to be quite messy, trying to get the strips to align and cover the seams especially after I put the split mould together and wanting to add more epoxy to eliminate pinholes/unfilled gaps. For both methods, the issues im facing are having difficulty trying to get the epoxy to filled up the gaps along the seams fully once I put the split mould together and getting the additional strip to line up properly in method 2. Is there a better way to not make the part separately using wet lay up method? I also tried over lapping the cf from the inside hoping to eliminate having to add the reinforcement strip but failed because I couldn’t trim the cf at the seam neatly at either part of the mould to give a nice overlap. Im lossing my hair over this lol.
Your flanges have to be reasonably thick - like 3 mm at a minimum. Make your entire mold this thick. I'm not sure what you're doing with the "fixes" but if you follow the technique closely, your results will be fine. Sounds like it's time to just scrap what you've done and start again.
Hi there, just subbed. Love ur enthusiasm in all of these works and putting them into vids and share with us! I myself just started up composite work as a hobbyist. I got 2 questions, wondering if I can seek ur advise on it. Im making a simple carbon fibre intake tube for my scooter. The factory one that comes with the bike is made of rubber, so i purchase an aftermarket steel one and planning to make a mould out of it. Few things came into my mind. 1) Is there a way to make the inside of the finished product smooth? Cus we’ll be doing carbon fibre with fibre glass as an extra reinforcement so that the tube ends wont crack during tightening. As you know, the reverse side of a finished composite surface is always rough, in this case im trying to find a way to have a smoother inside so the air flow will not be restricted. 2) Somehow related to question 1. When we make a mould, usually we are copying the exterior finish of a product. In this case, a tube. How do I keep the inner diameter in check so that the finish product will not have too much of a differences in measurement compare to the actual piece? (Steel tube) Any advise from anyone is much appreciated. Sorry for the long post lol (im getting all fired up!) Thumbs up! Keep up the good work and sharing! (Forgot to mention im using wetlay for now before i jump into vaccum with or without infusion. Btw, is it possible to wetlay and then just vacuum bag it? Just trying to find ways to keep the carbon fibre cloth conform to complex shape/corners without infusion method. Working on small budget for a start lol)
Thanks - Mixing fibreglass and carbon is not considered a good practice. Just add extra carbon to the ends and you'll be fine. Intakes are more sensitive to shape than they are to smoothness (general principles here) - so I'm going to say that it's not that big a deal. The saying in the head-porting game is that intakes react to shape not shine. Some testing has demonstrated that the boundary layer dynamics are improved with surface roughness. So inner or outer - you have to pick one. Most are more concerned with exterior surface finish to choose that side to be towards the mold. The part thickness is a factor of material thickness. Use any of the online calculators with your fabric properties and they'll give a good idea of the expected surface thickness. For these parts - the finished part was right on the predicted size of 2mm thick. You can wet lay and vacuum bag - it's about the same just the mold is made differently (you could. wet lay a mold used for infusion, but you could not infuse in a mold made for wet lay up as there won't be enough flange to "work" with for the materials. Wet lay up isn't easier in my opinion. It's got its place and I'm doing a video on this later. If you have a vacuum pump - infuse the part. You end up with better resin to carbon ratios. You still need a bag, bagging tape, peel ply if you wet lay - infusion mesh and lines are the difference (wet layups usually use a bleeder layer to absorb excess resin). I hope this helps.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thank you Sir! I will probably go with your advice with wetlay+vacuum bag for now. So i guess i will need a container for excess resin that flows out? What about vacuum pressure? Is there such a thing as too much pressure and too much resin being removed? Btw i use wetlay so that I wont have to clear coat them. Currently dont have the skills nor space for spray work lol. Awaiting your new vids!
@@eddiecjkang3545 use a bleeder layer. I made a simple catch pot and will get the video done soon.
This is awsome! How big of a compressor do you use for spray painting? I have heard so many different options that it would be great to get a definite answer!
My compressor is a dual-stage 5 hp unit with a 60 gal tank. I've got the lines in the garage plumbed with 3/4" copper and I spray out of a dedicated line that has a 1" copper maze for an air cooler. Works great.
Great stuff what boost levels are you aiming for and how are you going to join it to the steel Flange section.
You've zoomed in on the problem. The primary mode of failure (in my mind) would be pressure cycling. My plenum base design incorporates a double lip flange (so adhesive in double shear) with the back lip being taller than the front. The plenum will be 2 mm thick. My finished mold was less than a half a mm smaller than the outside flange and that yields 0.24 mm for glue line (that's 9 thousands of an inch).
Boost - I'm shooting for 2 bar. How often will it see 2 bar - not very often. I'll also be trying to make sure that the stress on the carbon part from intake tubes etc is kept to a minimum.
So at what point will you decide to remake the entire suspension as well in carbon fiber? :D
As always, great video and love this project. So amazed at seeing what you come up with.
I'm pretty sure my skills are NOT up to that challenge!
New subscriber: Super curious about your 3d printer as im trying to do the same thing with similar materials! I have a FT5 folgertec and im trying to print 1mm nozzle PETG for fast printing plus but dont get a print nearly as nice as yours! Any tips/tricks as to how you set up your printer settings?
Thanks for the sub. I made the printer myself. It uses linear bearings and E3D print head (Volcano) and extruder. The print I showed wasn't all that great as I was extruding a bit hot and getting some "zits" on the surface. I extruded at 235º C and the bed is set to 80º C. It's printing at 50 mm/s with infill at 75 mm/s. 0.6 mm layer height. PETG can be difficult to get the settings dialed in but is easier to live with than ABS (some of that on later parts for this car). Things that have really worked are getting all the cheap parts (clone E3D hot end etc) off the printer for original parts. They just work better.
Nice volvo amazon on your T-shirt
That's the project car.
Ooof sucks about the gel coat. But what an awesome and inspiring video! May have to try this myself on my VW project.
It will happen - it's important to see that no matter how much you do, failure is always possible.
@@ThrottleStopGarage As a younger mechanic and general tinkerer, that's a lesson I'm continuously learning. Your attitude is inspiring!
👍😎👍
What paint gun fluid tip did you use to shoot the gelcoat? Did you reduce the gelcoat with acetone?
It was a 2.4 mm tip for the gun. I didn't reduce the gelcoat.
Could it have been off-gassing from the high-build primer that made it blister??
I'm not sure if it was off-gassing, but I have learned that they're not really very compatible. Lesson learned.
I been looking for those wax as well. Do you mind sharing where you find them?
I got if from Easy Composites in the UK.
Do you use polyester gel coat? or epoxy surface coat with the mold making? Love these videos!!
Just standard tooling gel coat.
Dumb question for ya... when you're making molds like this from the plug, do you need to compensate for the thickness of the 'separation wall' that splits the two halves of the molds?
Nope - the wall is removed and the molds are made face to face. So the mold made in step 1 becomes the face in mold 2. It's important to carefully wax/pva that surface prior to making the second half mold.
@@ThrottleStopGarage That makes a lot of sense, thanks for dumbing things down for me! For this part, would you have been able to print the mold itself rather than the plug? That was my plan when attempting something like this as it only takes a couple extra steps to model the inverse parts
@@GrindhousePerformance I haven't tried it yet - but with some of the fiber reinforced filements out these days, I think it could work. They just have to survive the exotherm of the epoxy. For small parts I'm sure this is the way to go - larger parts...still make the mold.
@TSG: Have you seen Mike Patey's channel? He's building a Carbon Cub named 'Scrappy', and he makes custom Carbon Fibre parts very quickly; apparently in hours not days. Might be worth checking it out. Good luck.
I'll have to have a look.
Do you think there would be any issue if just a regular can of krylon primer was used?
Yes - don't do that. The Duratec VE Primer is CHEAP and works perfectly.
Is this the clay you used to cover over the edges? Pelikan - Quality Modelling Clay Plasticine
It's Pelikan Nikiplast.
www.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_US_INTL.Store.displayStore.219564./nakiplast-play-dough
Are you going to make the runners yourself or use off the shelf carbon tubes? Also great video!!!
Making them myself from aluminum tube.
Sorry I'm late, just found your videos....I'm doing this same build, and I'm hoping you still have these molds?
I still have the moulds, but I don't build parts for sale. I just have no time. I'm also not selling the moulds.
Man when I saw the Urethane primer script pop up I was like "Oh no!". Made that mistake once. Duratec Primer was all I used from that point on for Polyester molds and plugs. The know why part: Polyester and Urethane hate each other
It was a hard learned lesson. Never again. It was painful to pull it all off and do it all again!
Throttle Stop Garage thankfully I learned that lesson with my old bosses money
Can all gel coats (for projects like this) be applied with a brush?
Most can - I've done it a lot. Just measure the thickness and follow the instructions. If you're brushing, you can apply the gel coat in a single layer or in two coats. With two coats, the trick is to get the first layer thick enough so when you apply the second coat, it doesn't bite so deep into the first layer that it wrinkles (alligatoring).
Throttle Stop Garage Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. The car is coming along great. You’ve done a helluva job! Can’t wait to see it all done. Take care.
what kind of the spay primer do you use?
Duratek Vinyl Ester primer - great stuff.
Do you have a method you used to pick the dimensions or slop of the plenum?
In Corky Bell's turbo books - the suggested plenum volume can be computed by knowing the volume of the engine. That's how I set the volume for this manifold.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thanks!
Where do you get your carbon fibre and all the consumables from? I'm based in Calgary and can only find places in Toronto
Composite Envisions in Wisconsin. Check them out.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thanks very much, will do.
straight tube is the best on a flow bench, but the swirl of the combustion chamber is primary.
you need chaos as it is inherent.
Caos will save us from Ai
True - the Volvo 5 cylinder head is more of a tumble design than a swirl.
what kind of filleting wax do you use?
Pelikan Nakiplast
What 3D printer are you using? Also, great video and info!
Thanks - it's a printer that I designed myself. This stuff is mostly Lego blocks these days. So I bought a controller board, rails, steppers and an extruder/hot end and printed a few parts on another printer I have. It's run on Marlin.
Dont have access to a 3d printer. Could it be bone with Fusion's Slicer plugin and then filled with styrofoam spray?
If you don't have a 3d printer then how will a slicer plugin help you?
@@orppranator5230 slicing sheets of a surface, like a cardboard or thin wood to shape a surface. Then fill with styrofoam
Yes - that will work just fine. Do what you need to do to make a decent plug.
What is that bondo board? Never seen those before....
It's called onion skin. Thin sheets of paper that prevents contamination from old filler.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thanks! Gonna have to add that to my tools! Enjoyed the vid!
Do you have any concerns with locating the two halves of the split mold? I remember on an EZ Composites tutorial they used a little flat pyramid of fileting wax on the flange to create a sort of male/female locating feature.
Nope - the holes that I drilled were a close fit hole and with the number of bolts, it lined up fine.
The filleting wax always confuses me. I assume it gets removed from the molds after they're done, and it seems like it would leave a negative area where it was, that would change how the actual part would come out of the mold. Am I missing something, or does this add extra material you can sand off later so you can eliminate a seam? Your videos have been very interesting, and I may try some of these techniques.
Also, (and I've never tried it, but had these suggested by people who know what they're doing) but some tips I've heard of to avoid the itchiness from working with fiberglass:
1: anywhere you might have bare skin, try applying baby powder. The idea is that it will sort of fill in your pores and keep the fiberglass dust out.
2: take a cold shower after working with fiberglass. Hot showers can open up your pores making it harder to get rid of the fiberglass because the particles work there way further in that way.
Keep it up!
Yes, it does create a negative. I've also made the plug deeper than the finished part needs to be by around 30 mm to account for the fillet (which is around 15 mm in radius) so I can cut it back to the correct dimension. In the vertical seams and along the flanging, I've made it 90 degrees or as close as I can render to make the mold seal properly.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thanks for answering this. I was looking at those fillets and wondering the same thing. Great work! I loved seeing the engine actually in the car too!
@@The_R_Vid thanks - can't wait to just have to clean the car!
That's a fairly giant plenum. Did you calculate the volume of it?
Yes, and it's fine.
@@ThrottleStopGarage just curious, what's the ratio of it to the displacement of the engine?
@@Micah_Makes should be around 1.5 to 1.8 depending on how the part cleans up.
@@ThrottleStopGarage that should be beautiful for a street car. I've personally found 1.5 to be great for non-restrictor road course car builds too.
How are you going to make the runners?
They're machined tubes. So they'll be welded to the intake flange and the plenum base.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Had you considered carbon fiber for those parts too or would they not be able to stand up to the heat?
@@R0yL33 With the right resin most if not all of it could be done in carbon. You have to make the call with respect to how much time and effort your willing to spend on these sorts of parts. Months making a carbon fibre intake is not something I think I want to do.
what epoxy resin and hardener do you use?
The mold was made using a isophthalic polyester resin. It's specific for mold making and shrinks less than a regular polyester resin.
@@ccob122 what epoxy is used when he is doing the carbon fiber infusion?
@@VISIONTEK_LABS RDR 3121 is going to be used. Stay tuned.
@@ThrottleStopGarage awesome thank you
I wonder how many psi can it hold
We don't know just yet. Hopefully more than enough.
@@ThrottleStopGarage nice! I have turbo
Motorcycle and I always wanted to 3D print a plenum, try different shapes and velocity stacks sizes
I may have missed it but how do you go about getting that flange material so perfectly cut to the top of the plug? That is a work of art in itself!
I just made a pattern and then cut it out in melamine coated hardboard. It worked very well.
Do not use urethane primer for master models - this stuff shrinks like crazy exposing all imperfections over time. You can literally weight a year after priming the surface with urethane primer and after sanding it will shrink exposing the texture anyway. Use polyester primer instead, or polyester tooling coat, or even polyester gelcoat will work for final coat of the plug. Polyester primer can be coated like 1 mm thick per time if you want to and you can make coat as thick as you want without waiting complete drying of previous coats, it does not shrink after hardening and it can be easily sanded and polished immediately forming beautiful surface finish. You have to use cheap spray gun with polyester stuff or spray gun with replaceable nozzles and cans like 3M ACCUSPRAY HGP HVLP gun because of polyester can set quickly in you spray gun and can ruin regular spray gun, but polyester stuff is what you need for the final coat of the master model.
Another tip - use epoxy tooling coat instead of polyester gelcoats. Epoxy tooling coat does not react with anything, it has longer pot time, it does not gelling so it is easier to work with, it forms more durable and stronger mold surface, it is not heating up so you can mix big batch, it is also significantly less toxic. The only down side of epoxy stuff is it is more expensive than polyester, but for such small parts labor cost is more expensive than materials.
Great tips - I did learn my lesson with the primer. All of my CF parts are polyester primed and I knew I could use it for the mold, I just didn't think of it. I really do want to get a 3M Accuspray system for this stuff. As I refine the final parts, I'll need to prime them again after sanding and I don't want the risk of ruining my good spray guns. I've never tried the epoxy tooling coats - I'd completely use that now that I know better.
this is truly excellent work - great results like this only generally follow top notch method, skill and application. . . . . . one question for you, i am new to mould making and generally apply the Gel coat with a brush, any reason you went to a spray set up ?
Thanks Peter. I decided to spray due to the complexity of the molded parts and the issues I was having with brushing. I was doing this over, I'd buy the special gun (dump gun) normally used to apply gel coat. It really is easier to do the gel coat application in a few light coats all at once to get the correct film build. Brushing still has its place for simple molds.
The idea, that intake design is not as important in turbocharged application is a big misconception. Runner length has nothing to do with pressure, power, air volume etc.
All cars are turbocharged in a way. Naturally aspirated car runs under atmospheric pressure (1 bar of atmospheric boost). If your turbo makes 0.5 bars of boat that would make total of 1.5 bars of boost. Going from 1 bar to 1.5 bars of pressure, doesn’t magically change intake design requirements
True, (forced pressure) manifold volume can not be completely ignored either just a little less important... physics is physics, just compressible flow dynamics within complex, differential volumes and movement is difficult to calculate. Best to just play with runners...much less headache and usually more gains to be had
True - the basic dimensions are still tuned to the Helmholtz resonance for the engine and the plenum size is on the large size at 1.5 times engine volume (we'll see when I get the parts trimmed). I would say it's critical for NA, and important for forced induction.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Yes, Helmholtz equations are pretty much the only to get a grasp of what is going on. Issue being boundary separations, and vortices within the system is difficult to understand especially without visual monitoring. Also, I always wondered how are the particles and surface tension within the system affecting laminar flow. Then again maybe every once and a while I should get out of my armchair and at least visit a garage...😆
@@cstevenson6845 Alan - you're my kind of nerd. I didn't subject this manifold to CFD as I was re-reading Corky Bell and found some of his posts on forums and he maintains that for a turbocharged application, unless you're Lewis Hamilton, the throttle response variation is undetectable between sub 1:1 and almost 2:1 volume. Shape matters and I've done what I can with the shape and direction of the throttle body. I worked harder on the plenum base (wait until you see that piece) - to get the bell mouths optimized. I was attracted to the resistance to heat soak and will ceramic coat the rest of the manifold (thinking about the intake port and valves. That said - if it all goes south, I'll weld up the sheet metal version.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Funny was about for Corky in my library as well. Optimization of bellmouth radius and cross section, runner diameter and length, and reduced thermal expansion is definitely an art. Math is just a sniff in the right direction, unless you have a team of engineers. The real fun is trail, and error. Hands on work, and physical experimentation very rewarding. Can't wait to see the final product. Still love that you share this freely... Thank you as always. Keep em coming
Would love to get your input of a quick and dirty way of carbon fiber parts for one off pices
Basically thinking of bonding a skin to a fiberglass fender standard skinning process couple 200gsm layers so it's not too thick compared to the original part, then using some very aggressive sandpaper to eat away at the original fiberglass part before final epoxy and layup of the inside for strength?
Part of the reason is the fenders have alot of negative areas which are not suited to a mould.
Is this just a bs process I've pulled out my ass, just want something better than skinning
You can build molds with foam and then dissolve the foam. I know what you're trying to do and it just seems like that's a lot of messy work that will not yield a very good part. One of the factors for a strong CF part is compression of the fibers and getting the resin ratios right. CF doesn't want to be resin rich - shooting for 1/2 the carbon weight in resin is what we're looking for from infusion and a little less than that for prepreg. You can't get there reliably with a wet layup.
@@ThrottleStopGarage thanks for the detailed reply your right I did not consider the optimum resin infusion I will look into making moulds from foam as I think that will be better as you suggest
Out of curiosity how much does each cost roughly for a mould and each part say the fenders?
@@drunktortila3632 I'm going to make that video soon - honest. Several hundred dollars in materials and a few weeks worth of evenings and weekends.
Update please 🥺
COVID has slowed overall car progress down remarkably. I have a regular job and it has required a ton of additional work and I've not had a holiday in almost three years. So the engine had not been built and that intake has yet to ingest any air. I am starting to get a little more time out in the garage and I hope this summer to make some solid progress.
@@ThrottleStopGarage hope for the best. good luck sir 👍🏼
Bud, missed your channel for a while. Remember writing to you months back, last winter. I am In YYC you are close by. I would appreciate your guidance with a carbon fibre/ FG / Kevlar project of mine.
What are you making?
Throttle Stop Garage I’m running with a small stackable canoe design and making twin hulls in an outrigger set up. Basically, in phases. First completing cad. Drawings and researching materials!
So, need is to understand strength of Kevlar and carbon fibre v. Traditional fg. Original design calls for 1/4” marine plywood walls, I recon 1/8” with the composites should do as well. Thoughts?
@@luisfelipecabana1743 Kevlar is crazy stuff. It's impact resistant and won't shatter like carbon fibre will in an accident. There are lots of sources for the various physical properties (tensile, flex etc). Cut any holes needed in it first as drilling is tricky. Seal the cut edges. FG is also a wonderful material (many weave choices these days) with similar properties when combined with the right resin. You just have to weigh the cost vs strength for going from 1/4" to 1/8" ply. You can recover the strength loss - no problem and using the plywood as a core you could make a very stiff end product with only a few layers.
Throttle Stop Garage my thoughts exactly. Plan to use it also for final finish. Clear FG inside to showcase wood work, carbon on exterior side walls for looks, and Kevlar in bottom plates for abrasion and impact, also colour change for bottom (waterline and bellow) I’ll keep you posted. What are you using for your renderings? Rhino, sketch up or other ?
I use the same whiteblock! Anyway you can send me the cad file? I'll pay if anything
This plenum was designed for my application...best design one that will fit your car.
@@ThrottleStopGarage oh it would work for sure
Following your for over 6 months and I have to wonder: how worried are you regarding the health hazard of carbon fiber?
If you wear your PPE and are careful, it's quite safe. So I'm not worried.