Creation Is More Logical Than Evolution - Atheist Experience 490
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Bill is back with more bad arguments. I think Bill is just trying to convince himself that his beliefs are true. He is just not going to convince anyone on this show. Matt Dillahunty and Russell Glasser host this clip from The Atheist Experience #490 - www.atheist-exp...
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Ending Comments/Audio - George Carlin from "You Are All Diseased"
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eNJOY!
"Animals do not know anger or love"...
How the hell is a person that ignorant allowed to use a phone?
If the caller doesn't think animals feel anger, try taking a dogs food away.
James West or stepping on a cat’s tail. Or doing pretty much anything about a cat, heck.
try staying near an defensive elephant
Animals absolutely feel compassion and concern. We were doing a play at my friends place and she has dogs. Someone in the play got "killed" and one of the dogs ran to the fallen person in a protective stance until the end of the play.
My bird displays both fear and joy.
My cat shows affection all the time and when I was sick with stomach issues, he stayed by the bathroom door like he was concerned. Idk.
Humans are animals, and several animals show the capacity for complex emotions.
Creationists think magic makes more sense than biological evolution. They prefer fiction over reality.
+Compulsive Creative Evolution is not science because it cannot be proven using the scientific method.
Secondly, in order for evolution to have a fighting chance there must be new genetic information introduced into an organisms genome in order for a new species to arise. Natural selection does not add new genetic information, it merely selects what is available in the gene pool. Mutation does not create new information either, it simply damages pre-existent genetic information.
As far as fruit flies mutating and no longer being able to interbreed, this is not an example of evolution because the fruit flies are still fruit flies. The fruit flies are not some other kind of organism. It's not a butterfly, grasshopper, or ant. It's still just a fruit fly with damaged genes caused by mutation.
+utubevideo1ful ... You just quoted some of Hovind's worst arguments.
+utubevideo1ful ... How would you define a species?
7notes "Evolution is not science because it cannot be proven using the scientific method. "
It can & has.
"As far as fruit flies mutating and no longer being able to interbreed, this is not an example of evolution because the fruit flies are still fruit flies."
Speciation is when the changes are so much that a type of animal can no longer produce viable offspring. It doesn't matter if they're still a type of fruit fly if they can no longer breed with other types. That is what evolution is, you scientifically illiterate douche. You, for example, are still a type of great ape. Taxonomically that is what you are.
@@utubevideo1ful not being able to breed is what evolution is.. speciation at it's limits...
Give it a million years and the species will no longer resemble original
these people believe in talking snakes, talking donkeys, and someone walking on water but somehow evolution blows their mind.
To be fair, it often mostly comes down to a very poor understanding of it. Such as thinking evolution claims a cell came from nothing, that cell became a fish, which gave birth to a monkey, which gave birth to a human.
They also believe their god is all seeing but adam and eve were able to hide from god in trees
This is the obsolute old covenent - not the new testament.
I had a dream last night that my cat learned to talk. Lol
@@SomerandomnobodyonyoutubeYou also hide from God, and like Adam and Eve you aren't successful.
It's odd that your Bible trivia knowledge is some kind of forcefield that will protect you from God .
God could become a friend that is closer than a brother. Now, God is alien to you.
The caller said it "creation is easier to understand"..... he didn't misspeak....that is the very heart of creationism.
Its so easy to give the GODDIDIT explanation instead of having to do all that HARD BOOK LERNIN.
Creationism is the essence of self deluded, self imposed ignorance.
Russel- 'And my son Ben finds Spiderman very easy to understand too'.....lol Russel trolled the troll hard.
+davids11131113 Peter Parker existed until he became Mohammed Parker. Fuck you Marvel!
BRAMMY007A YOU MUST BE A COMMUNIST ANTIFA MEMBER
GODDIDIT is not a good explanation, never was. it makes way too many assumptions: there is a particular god where there could be many gods, he created this plant and then that animal and then that insect... and it never explains how was the mechanism of creation, like god just talked to himself and things appeared? there are at least 10 million assumptions in just 3 words. if creationists could just think about all these questions they would drop the goddidit argument altogether.
David Anewman And yet it’s not
Hyenas are proof animals have no morality? Dudes, there's an amateur video taken on safari on YT showing hyenas risking their lives rescuing a cribbled cub from two lions.
Exactly! Some people are immediately removed from the conversation.
Creationists have such simplistic thinking. Evolution is proven by the fossil record, archeology, paleontology, genetics, geology, and biology but for some reason they can't get their theistic little heads around it. So much simpler to just say "goddidit".
+kristabella222 They make it more complicated , I don't think a lot of people on here actually read much they just react in foolish way !!!!!!
most of them have never thought about it....and a far to many never had any exposure to it in school to even have a basic comprehension of how science works, much less what the actual conclusions of a given field might be. Those same people, ignorant of science, are perfectly willing to blythely buy into what some preacher tells them they SHOULD believe about it. Those preachers have DELIBERATELY misled their flocks, and done it fully with intent. Only under the umbrella of religion, are they able to get away with such gross mismalfesanse...In any other career in society, they'd likely be immediately sued for their false claims.
They have thought about it and they know it destroys the very foundation of their religion. That's why they try to discredit it whenever they can.
When this clown says that creation is "more reasonable", what he really means is
"all that science is so complex and all that book lernin is so hard.... *god did it* is sooooo much easier".
WRONG! the fossil record shows the opposite:( The Cambrian explosion or Cambrian radiation[1] was the relatively short span event, occurring approximately 541 million years ago in the Cambrian period, during which most major animal phyla appeared, as indicated by the fossil record.[2][3] Lasting for about the next 20[4][5]-25[6][7] million years, it resulted in the divergence of most modern metazoan phyla.[8] Additionally, the event was accompanied by major diversification of other organisms.[note 1] Prior to the Cambrian explosion,[note 2] most organisms were simple, composed of individual cells occasionally organized into colonies. Over the following 70 to 80 million years, the rate of diversification accelerated by an order of magnitude[note 3] and the diversity of life began to resemble that of today.[11] Almost all present animal phyla appeared during this period.[12][13] There is strong evidence for species of Cnidaria and Porifera existing in the Ediacaran[14] and possible members of Porifera even before that during the Cryogenian.[15] Bryozoans don't appear in the fossil record until after the Cambrian, in the Lower Ordovician.[16]
The Cambrian explosion has generated extensive scientific debate. The seemingly rapid appearance of fossils in the "Primordial Strata" was noted by William Buckland in the 1840s,[17] and in 1859 Charles Darwin discussed it as one of the main objections that could be made against the theory of evolution by natural selection.[18] The long-running puzzlement about the appearance of the Cambrian fauna, seemingly abruptly, without precursor, centers on three key points: whether there really was a mass diversification of complex organisms over a relatively short period of time during the early Cambrian; what might have caused such rapid change; and what it would imply about the origin of animal life. Interpretation is difficult due to a limited supply of evidence, based mainly on an incomplete fossil record and chemical signatures remaining in Cambrian rocks.
"Science is too hard to understand, so I'm going to believe in magic."
Science isn't something we "understand" so much as science is something that we do. Science is observational and repeatable. Because of the huge volume of data and complexity many experiments are never repeated. The results end up in textbooks such as Uey-Miller(1952). When is the last time that you heard that Urey-Miller's classic was repeated? An undergrad science education is mostly learning terminology and regurgitating facts from lectures. The "understanding" part is answering what the instructor told the class. Relatively little time is spent practicing science because there simply isn't enough time.
Debates on evolution depend upon anecdotal examples that few have the resources to validate. The practical discipline of science gets condensed into a philosophical worldview because we don't have the time to acquire firsthand knowledge. That's why the consensus debates rage.
@@timothykeith1367 Abiogenesis is not evolution.
For as smart as you tried to sound, that was a very glaring error to wrongfully conflate two very different topics.
This caller has clearly never seen elephants help each other give birth, help each other find food, grieve when a family member dies, risk their life for their children, etc. We are so arrogant. And religion makes us even more so (and justifies cruelty toward other species).
I love elephant
@@chadrasmussen1154 me too 😊
4:20
"Animals do not know anger, love, stealing, (couldn't make out the word), hate...."
Where did the caller get that from? I grew up with alot of house cats. Cats most definitely display these traits.
Kitty BooBoo yea Cats are thug's all of us .
Ramen bro ramen!
I have one cat. In Egyptian mythology cats were considered gods and my cat never lets me forget it.
Elephants have been proven to have almost as much complexity in their emotions as human beings.. They just don't have a good mechanism of talking about it.. Neither do whales.
i mean she is a real mess and cute. And worse yet knows it. so she gets away with Murder ... no really I've had to bury three bodies already this week. And it's only Wednesday:-(
"Creation is more logical than evolution"
That's like saying "voodoo curses are more logical than medical diseases."
Caller: "We (humans) know that stealing is wrong. And we don't do it!"
Wow. Just...wow. People...don't...steal?
thats why we should get rid of our justices system. and stop wasting our tax money on police and jails.
It's a heads I win tails you lose scenario for Christians. If there are people who don't steal, they'll say it's because God put morality in them and there would be no morality if God doesn't exist. If there are people who steal, they'll say that it's the result of the Fall of Man and that because humans are so terrible we all deserve damnation. What an unfalsifiable and dishonest claim.
The audio quality of these old episodes is proof that some kind of devil exists. XD
Since the audio quality has improved over time, isn't that proof of evolution? ;)
TheFounderUtopia I find it hilarious. It sounds like a bad ear rape meme compilation 😂
- "Why would God reveal Himself to someone who is a sinner?"
I thought everyone is a sinner, according to christians.
What , did a 3rd grader just called in to the show ? And I guess he never had a pet dog .
Lol
Some theists....and I include Nick Rupa in this...don't seem to understand this very basic concept.When we say "We do not believe in God", we are not saying "We believe there is no God."
Also, saying "We do not believe in God" has no bearing on anything else we may or may not believe. So it would be awesome if theists would stop trying to dictate to us what we believe.
I completely agree, but that's asking a lot. How can you expect them to understand the difference between "denying a truth claim" and "making a truth claim" when they can't even understand the definition of "evidence"?
Why do we debate with the terminally stupid (aka: the faithful)? All you can get from doing that with a Christian is frustration at just how ignorant and stupid they are. It's like arguing with doorknobs... you will never get thru to them!
the ones who call, most of them, you're not going to change their opinions. But there might be those who are listening, who are sitting on the fence, and I think THEY are the audience the show is hoping to reach....to give them the facts and insight that might help them make the choice of remaining in a dogma, or setting themselves free of it....
We need to question them just like we should question anything. As they say on the show, the truth fears nothing from critical thinking and investigation. The more we question christians and other religions, the more people will think and change will come. But change isnt always one or two people. the more people that question religion, the more religious people there are questioning their beliefs and maybe theyll stop believing. Action leads to change. doing nothing will only promote religion. Christianity is homophobic and sexist. It endorses so many morally incorrect behaviours and both testaments of the bible are riddled with contradiction. its not a way to think from a logic stand point. But it also breeds prejudice and intolerance. Thats not a good thing. staying quiet is just allowing that to continue. Im not saying we will make a change but if we said nothing, this whole movement wouldnt pick up speed. and if we can make people think critically they might not pass on such flawed logic to their children and continue this problem. Always question things that dont make sense.
These people have the mind of a child.
Religion is working then.
and I'm sure the child was happy to give it to him.
I love mine of child
Guys, If you are trying to convince anyone, please do it with a decent sound quality.
When I need feel better I listen to Theists. Then I feel a lot smarter and better. Thanks for this channel. It's pure therapy.
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom.
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
no..
Nikola Skundric Wow, how meaningful...
Nikola Skundric What do you mean no? Even going by the Bible and Christian mythology it claims that God made EVERYTHING so how could you say no and deny that?
Jo Molly Because he is a deluded moron.
Mark Shere sounds like Grandpa Nurgle’s work!
To me when I look at Evolution and the diversity of life, it makes me smile to know deep down we're all related in some way. I love the feeling that sometime me and my dog - millions of years ago - had a common mammalian ancestor that diverged and ultimately came back together again. It's beautiful that I can call my dog "my family member", rather than think all life was plopped down like chess pieces. In my opinion if we all realized we're not that different there'd be less hate and violence
This is a touching sentiment
Hey Nick Rupa. Got a question for you. What reasons can you give for anyone to accept "Creation"? You keep going on about what you wrongly think we believe....so why should we believe what YOU believe?
+Fluffykeith don't expect a moron like him to explain something like that. I bet he's barely intelligent enough to not shit his own pants. He's the type of person that would believe anything they tell him just because he can't think for himself
What must be remembered re. animals and morality is that in the wild, many animals are feeding for survival in very harsh conditions.
Put humans in similar circumstances and I expect you'd get similar behaviour.
I saw this documentary called "Lord of the Flies," and that's exactly what happened.
(P.S. Yes I'm kidding. You'll probably know that, but before anyone corrects me, I figured I'd better say so explicitly.)
We do get similar behavior. People steal food if they're desperate and hungry. It doesn't make it any less immoral if it a wild animal does it though.
*****
It kinda does. A wild animal is acting purely on survival instinct, but people are capable of much more. If a person steals or kills, it is usually a conscious decision that has been made with full awareness of the consequences. That's why, in the few cases where a person steals or kills by mistake or without awareness of the consequences, there is some leniency because it is not quite as immoral.
For example, a person who is actually retarded - I think they have to have an IQ of below 70 - cannot be convicted of any crime they commit. They are legally not to blame because they couldn't possibly understand the outcome of their actions.
Lewis72
We see the same behaviour when a natural disaster hits and people start looting. Sometimes for profit, but also because of survival instinct....and mix in a little bit of greed.
He seems to say Creation is more logical, yet logic is based on facts and what can be proven. Yet there is not even 1% proof for creation, there is no evidence for it at all therefore he doesn't even understand what Logic is. He's basically saying 'i'm too lazy to use the brain I was born with and prefer instead to believe fairy stories that other people tell me are real i.e I'm a lazy idiot'
One of the biggest problems I have with Bill's call is how he's wording the statement, "That all other animals other than humans, just thru out morality." Aside from the examples that Matt D gave him such as apes that do show a basic morality, the animals that perhaps don't show this complex behavior are not doing so because they have decided to reject morality and throw it out. They simply have not developed a brain that can understand complex feelings.
"Animals don't know anger" ??????? Where in the hell did he ever get that idea!!!??? I dare him to go kick a pit bull in the ass, and he'll quickly see how flawed his thinking is.
Your ability to understand something has absolutely no bearing on its truth. As far as Evaluation goes , you would be hard pressed to find a more logical argument for the complexity of life on earth.
You cannot create something from nothing.
"You gotta be kidding" says a god.
"Animals don't know love!"
Clearly Bill has never owned a dog. Or seen a mated pair of albatrosses.
Seriously, look up how albatrosses interact during the breeding season. They're absolutely _adorable!_
Polly Wui
Yeah!
Also, ravens. They not only mate for life, but when their mates die, they will fall into a deep depression that sometimes drives them to intentionally starve themselves to death.
In short: Ravens go suicidal when they lose their mates.
Luke Elms
Yeah!
Although some birds (like raptors, pelicans, certain storks, etc) boot their young out if they show signs of weakness, so you've got your good and your bad.
Polly Wui
I am aware of that. I guess it would be more accurate to say that the stronger sibling is the one who boots the weaker one out.
Polly Wui
Yeah.
Thanks, you too
"Oh, a big bang sounds illogical, but believing that an imaginary god created the universe is perfectly logical." Gotta love there logic~ XD
I believe God created the universe as a simulation because he wanted to create mortal beings like ourselves who could not exist face-to-face in God's kingdom. I think God wanted to create a race of weak flesh and blood beings like ourselves to shame the powerful immortal beings that rebelled and became demons.
The earth is currently a battleground, but because of the God-man Jesus, humanity will be lifted up - those that are in Jesus. The unredeemed will be with the demons forever - suffer in some state like the fictional zombies - I don't know the proper word to use.
Before the Fall of Man by being deceived into the rebellion of the demons, the best that the human race could have become was like Adam. Because Jesus defeated death for believers they will not be like Adam, but they will become like Jesus. Not only can the resurrected believer never die, but they will never be able to sin like the race of Adam did.
It seems like it's taking a very long time, but redemption is never more than a short human lifetime. The redemption time for the saints is very near!
This caller is a good example of how important education is. He shapes his ideas of morality on incorrect information. Altruism, reciprocity and empathy happen up and down the system of life. Even trees have been shown to act against their own interest by transporting nutrients they could use to other trees. These evolved very early on in multiple lineages.
Stephen Fry nailed it - "If there's a God, I'd ask him why little children die of things like bone cancer?"
Where is jesus
Chewbacca was a wookie, from the planet Kashyx, but he lived on the planet Endor. Think about that, it does not make sense. Why would a 8 foot tall wookie want to live on Endor, with a bunch of little 2 foot tall ewoks? That does NOT make sense.
Ladies and gentlemen, if Chewbacca was a wookie, you must believe in Jesus.
And that is checkmate, atheists.
Oh No!!! He is using the Chewbacca Defense!!!
Can't beat the Chewbacca defense. Now repent, HEATHENS!!!!!!
Bobby Duckett: This WAS your attempt at sarcasm, RIGHT?!
Kay Omholt-Montague The chewbacca defense is airtight.
Bobby Duckett - How so?
creation is an easier pill to swallow, but it's a sugar pill.
This has nothing to do with morality, but I want to tell about it anyway:
I once knew two cats. One of them was driven over by a car and died shortly after and the other cat totally changed behaviour and also died shortly after. The cat felt sorrow after loosing its friend! Animals can feel such things.
"Have you ever tried to take food from a dog?" LOL!!!!
Faith is a piss poor substitute for thinking.
How could you fuck up the audio so much?
morals evolved and are Subjective.
E-PLURIBUS-UNUM
Anyone who believes animals do not have morals needs to simply look at what we know about elephants, just for one example.
He needs to read about a Gorilla raised in captivity called "Coco." They taught her a sign language of 500 words. She had the problem solving skills of a three year old.
By accident Coco watched a video with Gorillas being slaughtered. Coco picked up a store coupons showing meat on sale. He held it up to his handlers and did the sign repeatedly for "SHAME YOU. SHAME YOU."
Spiderman is more real than God. At least it's more plausible that genetic engineering and some clever device could allow those spider powers, and if so maybe on some planet in this vast universe there is a humanoid being with those abilities/technology, and there is some chance the someone in the future could figure out how to be a sort of real Spierman. Possibly also in case with some other superheroes. Hence why I like believing in superheroes more than gods, because they're somewhat more possible, and they'll actually help you out consistently.
I agree, until Spider-Man became black. This is the opposite of evolution. A dumb fuck devolves, he doesn't evolve. If you want to watch evolution watch Spider-Man comic sales now that they are being told that he is Black. Fuck you Marvel.
+John Bowler Fuck you for your racism.
Spider-Man didn't turn black. Another character who is a black teenager, Miles Morales, gained the same powers (mostly) as Spider-Man.
This guys brain is broken 🤔
J-b Mash hard to believe. He doesnt have one
There are plenty of things that actually exist that don't make sense. I can name one: certain types of math lol
DisWldFrk90 I don't think anything can make as much sense as math does. It's a system of sense-making, basically. :P It's the language/tool we use to make sense out of things.What type of math were you referring to?
antiHUMANDesigns
Anything that's not basic. In other words anything that's not simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, or division. I have autism and see numbers very differently than most people. Certain types of math I can get the answer in my head right away, but I can't explain how I arrived at the answer (cause I just got it I didn't do any work) which got me a lot of low math grades since teachers take off for that thinking I'm cheating. Other types of math I can't get the answer unless I arrive at the answer a certain way, not the way the teacher told me to which also got me lower grades cause they didn't accept the way I got it.
To me, that has never and will never make sense. I don't understand how there's any other way to get the answers other than what I do and the ones where I just know the answer I don't understand why you need to do work to get the answer. It's just there.
Which is why I compared it to belief that there is no creator lol doesn't make sense to certain people for there not to be one, but it doesn't make it true just cause that's the only way to make sense to you. That's how I am with math. I know there's a certain way it goes, but it doesn't make sense to me. It only does my way.
DisWldFrk90 Hey, I also have autism! :D Well, aspeger's syndrome, but still a form of autism.
Numbers give me comfort, so to speak. I understand them, and I love making the connections between what I see, and the numbers that explain what I see.
The relationship between numbers and geometry, and such.
Yes, when i was in school, the teachers kept telling me to write down how I solved my problems, but I never did, and that was a problem.
Now I have a daughter who also has asperger's syndrome, and she's got the same problems I had, only worse (more strongly pronounced).
Not that I see them as problems, but others do.
As for "creation" vs naturalism (or however you want to say it), I think that understanding math helps us grasp how it's possible for the universe to be the way it is without an intelligent force directing it.
I see, in my head, simulations and models for how planets form around stars, and so on. I even program simulations on the cumputer, just to look at things happening with pure physical laws acting on mass, and so on.
I think it's beautiful that something so complex can come froom simple rules.
That's also why I absolute love the concept of biological evolution, and I try to simulate aspects of that aswell.
antiHUMANDesigns
Awesome! Fellow club member hehe. Numbers don't do that for me. I'm a letters person, probably because I love patterns. That's actually how I get the answers to math, but the teachers never agreed with me when I swore those patterns existed! lol! Big difference between numbers and letters for me are there are some numbers I really don't like. I really don't like odd numbers (except for the number 5, but I hardly feel that's an even number cause it's a half number). And the fact that nobody ever argued with me that there are patterns in letters. Numbers they did. I used to say "Not my fault you can't read!"
Hopefully she'll get a teacher that's more understanding towards it in the future. I did get one that understood it, though not in math lol it was English.
I think it's great though that you understand math and science enough to come to that conclusion! That is the problem with why a lot of people can't understand it. For me, it makes more sense to not have intelligent design because I think if we had that we would have more direct answers as to how everything came into being, including the designer. The way everything actually is, we had to figure it out cause particles and matter don't talk lol. The fact that there's not one ounce of evidence for intelligent design doesn't help. I need to have evidence shown to me before I'll believe it, none of the parables that apologist try to give me. Not to mention, space is cooler without an intelligent designer! ;)
antiHUMANDesigns
Mine's aspergers. I didn't get diagnosed til way later as well cause back then they didn't think anyone could possibly have any form of autism if you talked lol pending the situation I won't talk!
We wouldn't need to figure the universe out with an intelligent designer. We'd have the simple story that light was made into a ball and the earth was created in 6 days without question. Which I sure wouldn't like. There would be no room for exploring! I like to explore through things and see what nobody else sees.
If a dog steals from a dog, the one that stole and got away with it feels like it won and the other is probably mad.
If a human steals from a human, the one that stole and got away with it feels like it won and the other is probably mad.
Sounds about the same to me.
It's more logical to believe in a creator, for which we have no evidence to support, than to believe in evolution, for which we have a mountain of evidence to support. Wow!!!
'You guys say all atheists believe in evolution'....well maybe they do, maybe they don't but that's irrelevant since most theists today also accept evolution as true, even the Vatican does, and people like Kenneth Miller one of the leading evolutionary biologists today is a Christian. The whole thing is just a big strawman.
+davids11131113 too bad evolution conflicts with creation.
+Molecular Poker He never said it doesn't. He's just saying that even theists can handle accepting evolution. So the big deal about proving one or disproving the other really doesn't matter.
you don't believe in evolution...you understand it...or you don't
Right, 'belief' in evolution is irrelevant.
I don't necessarily agree that 'evolution conflicts with 'creation', they could just say that some magical God got the ball rolling and then things evolved from there. I don't believe that, but they could say it.
If we can determine whether religion is the cause...or the result...of insanity, we might be able to cure both.
torturing and killing your children because you picked a favorite is not the actions of a loving father.
Folks, the message to which I'm replying was NOT spam. You might not like what it says, but that doesn't qualify it as spam.
If you don't like a post, use the thumbs-down button. Only a few people need to do that, and the post will be removed.
But let's play fair, and not use the spam button just to get a post *we* don't like obscured. Let's leave that kind of stuff to the (only some, actually) believers, who've specialized in it through the years.
Just read through all your responses and I got to say you are a truly gifted Poe! You even tossed in conspiracy theories and wove those into the religion stuff. Kudos seriously great work!
4:29 - My dog. He knows when he has stolen something and he knows that it is wrong. He displays shame and fear of punishment.
Animals are capiable of possesing most of the same traits as humans, compassion, love, anger, loyalty, sharing, fairness, etc. and like in humans some animals will not or cannot express these traits.
Heres the thing, Nick. I'm not hitting on you, so don't flatter yourself. I'm asking a legitimate question about your very apparent negative attitude towards gay people. You're actually making it worse for you by deleting my question and making all these "dating site" comments. Just answer the question.
Has this guy never had a pet? You can search RUclips for animals that have been heroic and compassionate.
The caller lost me 1 minute in. Assuming for the sake of argument that it makes more sense for the universe to be created, that really doesn't get you anywhere. There are literally thousands or more deities out there and there isn't any way to assume one created the universe over another. It could be Thor, Shiva, Yahweh, Zeus, on and on. So you go with the one your parents believed in? Using that logic gets you lost very fast. And no, the bible doesn't help because other faiths have holy books.
Years ago, a photographer in Africa took a series of photos of a hippo trying to save an antelope from a crocodile. I saved those pix for decades--they were published in the old Life magazine. Outside of hatred for crocodiles, the hippo had no reason to try to save the antelope, yet he fought off the crocodile, gently picked up the wounded antelope in his mouth, and carried it away from the water. Then he watched over it till it died.
Personally, I had a dog that saved a baby rabbit from other dogs and then gave it to me for protection.
I had a horse that was annoyed that my dog was barking at her while she was trying to eat, and she brought up one hind foot and slapped his mouth shut--no damage to the dog, but he sure shut up.
And I hope we've all seen videos of hooved animals (like wildebeasts) forming a circle around the weaker herd members to protect them from attacking predators.
The guy making this call, I've almost got him pegged as a poe because it's hard to believe anyone could be as stupid as he is, but I've known other people who said that animals have no emotions, just instincts. They not only know nothing about animals, they obviously don't know what emotions are, either.
The only reason that everyone thinks that animals don't have emotions or even thoughts, is because humans are the only ones that (to our knowledge) that have the ability to *articulate* them. A dog feels happy and can show that it's happy, but we are the only ones who can give a name to the feeling.
TVlord5
Luckily, not everyone believes that, or this world would be even sadder.
And isn't it funny that we believe that being able to talk about our feelings somehow makes us more important than an animal that just feels purely?
qhsperson Wait...believes in what I said, or believes that they don't have emotions?
TVlord5
Not everyone believes that animals don't have emotions.
qhsperson Oh ok....yeah...I mean seriously anyone who's ever owned a pet knows like right away that they have very obvious emotions
Creationism isn't more logical than Evolution! You meant that it's easier for you to believe it, especially considering your religious background.
Joao, Here's a fun topic for you evo-fools. We have human sexual reproduction (HSR). We know a whole lot about it. Many of us experimented with it. Since you believe in evolution, give a logical explanation with proof of how HSR came about. Here's an example: We had this asexual something that got here by you don't care what, that was created by another thing you don't care about to answer, and this asexual something mutated a bump, another asexual something mutated a hole, this went on and on of umpteen years and by mere chance somehow mated from the sexual organs that somehow formed by mere chance not even knowing they were needed and.........it eventually led to HSR. Sure it's going to be a LONG story and I can't imagine how it could be possible but since you evo-fools believe it, you better have a good explanation. I don't want theories that answer nothing, I want a logical story with proof to back it up. Since you claim it all came about naturally, then give your natural explanation.
Why is the sound so horrible on this recording? Some words are completely illegible because of the quality.
Children actually do display surprising amounts of mature morality. They will help people they see in need, but they do often take what they want.
The reason "theft" and "stealing" doesn't exist in the animal kingdom is because private property is human made and infact not that old archeologically. In nomadic societies if you had a new spear, that spear could be used by anyone in the tribe and lent out. No one "owned" anything. It was until trade and commerce began that the idea of personal property emerged, so his comment at ~5:10 is already invalid
Evolution doesn't establish that no creator exists. """""IF""""""" there is a creator the evidence supports that this creator uses evolution for the natural world.
The trick of picking up a number from the floor at our DMV would be useless since the numbers are called sequentially and a discarded number tag on the floor would have been called already and would not be called again that day.
He is saying that evolution is not true because he doesn't understand it. That's an argument from personal incredulity fallacy.
"We all know it's wrong and we don't do it." There literally is not one conceivable action a person could potentially take that this statement applies to. Most people know stealing is wrong, some of those people still do it. Some people don't even realize or don't agree that it's wrong to begin with. The closest we probably come as a species to something that is universally recognized as bad would be rape or murder, and there's still a very, very large number of people who do those things, they are happening constantly every single day.
That became a fish.. that became an animal.. that became an ape.. that became a man.
Man is a type of ape and all, including the fish are animals.
This is the problem with creationist. Most start the debate with zero information.
You see this is where you have to mince definitions. Evolution as in the theory which attempts to explain the process by which primitive organisms over millions of years evolved into more complex organisms, or evolution as in the changes in DNA from parent to offspring? One, of course is a fact. Biology basically collapses without it. The other is slightly more debatable, though a very good explanation for our origin. On the first, I would have to say that creation can be more logical from an aspect of astronomy or philosophy or logical thinking processes, but if evolutionary theory is isolated only to biology, its golden.
I love it when your speaking on a telephone they say "show me"....HOW?! They should say "tell me" not show me.
In Europe they teach you about evolution at a very young age. They even make great cartoons to educate children.
Episodes about the creation of the earth and life evolution. I invite grown ups to educate themselves with children cartoons:
Part 1 of 3: Once upon a time... Man - And earth was created (1 of 3)
Part 2 of 3: Once upon a time... Man - And earth was created (2 of 3)
Part 3 of 3: Once upon a time... Man - And earth was created (3 of 3)
i love it. in fact i was watching it with my 5 year old daughter the other day.... great stuff for starting.
sound quality is perfect.
Believing what you are told thoughtlessly is so much easier than working your brain to give yourself an understanding of the natural world.
Im glad that this Bill character called while Matt was hosting as Russel and the other guy did a poor job with him on the other vid. The convo didnt go this far because Matt wont let him get away with anything where as on the othe vid Russell and his co host let they guy make outrageous assertions and fallacies without properly addressing them.
The simplest example is that if Darwin observed two parents with brown eyes and their child had blue eyes, he would credit that to random mutation. But as he was writing Origin of Species, Mendel had already started his pea plant experiment which would prove the existence of genetic inheritance. By 1915, the inheritance model had completely replaced the arbitrary model, which had the effect of making TOE much MORE feasible, since inheritance does not require creation of information to work.
I am an Atheist and find evolution neither proves or disproves god.
However, it is another of many examples of where a "god" theory is being replaced with a naturalistic, scientific reason.
"Through out history,
Every mystery, ever solved,
has turned out to be...
NOT MAGIC"
(Tim Minchin)
The more we learn and understand about the universe we live in the less places a god explanation is needed.
No, but it wouldn't have to be. It can't actually. But that doesn't affect the fact that it can curve the space-time rug in such a way that time is slowed effectively to a halt. An excelent example would be a black hole. See, a black hole is the densest thing in the universe (and the universe in the beginning was even denser) and of course, they bend the space-time rug. This pushes it, as a ball on a rubber sheet, so that the time strings are pulled apart, which makes the time slow down. At the
I just hate when people say "such and such is more logical" when they actually mean "such and such is more intuitive to me". Logic is the operation of information and the study of how propositions relate to each other. It's so objective that we build machines that do it: computers. Thus, one can't just claim "such and such is logical". One must actually prove this claim.
"Easier to understand creation"
That's only because your brain just isn't capable enough to take in even the most basic science.
Animals feel everything we feel. Everything. Maybe differently but they feel.
Arguably it is "more logical" in a vacuum (with no ability to test or verify) to believe that some greater being(s) created all this. Fortunately we don't exist in such a state. We are able to "ask reality" (experiment) to corroborate our beliefs, and if we ask very specific, carefully designed questions, reality gives us answers.
Why is it that no one ever considers that we don't know why all of this happened? Did you ever think the universe could be a minute particle in a much larger system?
I ponder that sometimes. It's not hard to see striking similarities between how electrons orbit nuclei in atoms and how planets orbit stars. (Although I realize the two do not orbit for the same reasons)
I often think that if I were the size of say, a Quark, then just the confines of the atom would seem immensely large and vast to me. Nevertheless, looking beyond the exterior of the atom would be beyond my abilities, and so I could not possibly realize that my "universe" is actually infinitely small in the *true* grand scheme of things, and that there are trillions of other "universes" similar to mine just in my close proximity.
***** Thank you for this very interesting information.
***** Thanks for the info. I wasn't meaning anything literal - it was just a rough analogy used to convey that the scale in which someone considers "normal" is entirely a matter of perspective.
To reiterate what you said, electrons wouldn't know of the Big Bang, but they might know of something smaller than a String, and they'd consider themselves "normal size."
I suppose it's equally possible that our self-aware electron would be accustomed to a world where 1 step down on the scale is the smallest anything can get, assuming there's nothing smaller than a String.
***** Hmmm, I suppose we couldn't unless we had a firm, thorough understanding of the universe, what it is, why it exist, etc. We'd probably have to iron out all the Big Bang causal factors, too.
I don't think it's beyond comprehension of a smaller scale organism to grasp the bigger picture, but it will take millions of years probably before our knowledge gets to that.
***** I would love to know why this universe expanded and all the reasoning of what all this is and why all of this is. In my logical brain, I know there is a reason for all of this, all of the chemical compositions that make up human beings. I am an atheist but I don't feel I get a free ticket to cheat people and be mean to others. I still conduct myself as an instrument of peace while I am in existence.
Firsthand experience is subjective. Just because you had a good experience in your area does not make it the norm. Someone may drive home drunk every Friday night and never cause an accident, but that doesn’t mean everyone who drives home drunk is a safe driver.
If I roll a die and it comes up 6, it doesn’t mean that it will always come up 6.
The larger the sample, the more accurate the data.
“Animals don’t feel anything...” 20 seconds later “An animal will steal food from another animal and feel good about it” ... 🤷♂️
I never specified any particular group who believed the Norse religion, but I know they exist, because I knew one of them. I knew a girl named Dagne in college who actually believed this stuff. Like many a Christian, she had modified her religion to better match modern science, so she did not actually believe Thor used his hammer to make lightning and thunder, but she did believe that he was a god and did bring the storms. Her family kept this tradition.
A few questions if I may:
1. What did I do in your scenario that warranted death? Just a bit more specific of an analogy please.
2. The judge offers me grace. Am I guilty? If so, by offering ME grace, the VICTIM is robbed of justice. True justice is personal accountability. I may take it, BUT that would depend on the caveat.
3. The caveat here is that I worship a deity that demanded murder, infanticide, genocide, rape, and slavery. So... no. I'd refuse on moral grounds.
Here, do this:
1) Search 'The Known Universe' here on RUclips.
2) Just watch
3) Consider how arrogant it is to assume ALL OF THAT is made just for us by a 'creator'.
Thanks.
I don't recall which monkey it was but researchers sent in a camera that looked like one of them a youngster at one point they came to the conclusion the bot was dead. The older ones went and held their younger ones and were consoling each other it was obvious the mood in the colony had changed and that they were visually upset at the thought of one of the young being dead. Animals may not have the same morels as us but some of them are not as indifferent to mortality as one may have once thought. I remember seeing a video where one of the whales had gotten tangled in a giant fishing net and would have drowned long before rescuers gt there to help if it wasn't for another whale that would go under it and push it to the surfaces it could breathe this proves animals have the same sense of death we do and don't want there loved ones to die without at least trying to do something. The last one that sticks out is a monkey who got electrocuted on a railway one of his family started dragging the monkey and pushing on him even dipped him in a water puddle and it actually was able to revive the monkey truly showing they have the same feelings towards death as we do. Thas 3 different species I have actually seen that have these complex feelings I bet there thousands more.
What cracks me up about all this is the suggestion that it's somehow smarter to believe in magic and fairy tales about supernatural beings creating things from nothing....by magic. Rather than accepting things we can actually verify.
"Then why do you keep asking for "contemporary accounts" "
Because that is among the criteria by which we establish something about history for a fact.
" It becomes an argument of silence on your part to assume he didn't exist "
Again, I never said I assumed that. In fact, I said that I assume the opposite.
What I DID say however, is that we can't know he actually existed or not because no unbiased, contemporary or independend records exist. So we can't consider it a fact.
This is such bullshit. Social animals not only have rules, but in many cases there is one to enforce those rules. This is where we get the term “alpha” male and “alpha” female. If you see two female gorillas fighting or breaking any other rule, you will also see the silverback male get involved and solve the situation. He may even punish one of the parties involved.
You see similar, but less complex behavior in wolves. The alpha male wolf will settle disputes and also dictate how much meat any of the other wolves get to eat. If a wolf or dog isn’t displaying anger when they snap at or bite another dog, wolf , or human, then I don’t know what you would call that emotion they are displaying. Anyone who has owned a dog also knows that they can show obvious signs of guilt. Usually you don’t have to even say anything. If you walk into the kitchen and see the trash can knocked over and all the trash spread all over, your dog will slump his head and start moving out of the room before you even look at them. How is that not guilt?
Has anyone ever heard of a jealous dog? All of the time. Any dog who is used to being the center of attention will become jealous whenever another person or dog enters the scene and starts getting some of your attention, they are especially known for this with new babies. I have seen dogs try and force their way between the person and the other dog, some of them being quite insistent and obnoxious about it. Animal certainly show many similar emotions as human being do.
I like to try to back myself up with evidence which is what you see most of the time when I post something so that you can believe what I post.I don't usually just state something without backing myself up with evidence..
Flip a coin 100 times, it should roughly come up 50/50, we can then conclude that there is an equal chance that both sides are equal. If heads was more likely to come up then we would see 67/33 (or whatever). But in this case if we only flipped it once, then there is almost a 1 in 3 chance that tails would come up. Therefore it would be erroneous to base our conclusion on 1 flip because there is a 1 in 3 chance of it being wrong.
Fred was wrong. It's not possible to calculate probabilities about a process you don't understand. He must have been calculating on an assumed process possibly based on pure random chance. An incremental process would imply a different probability.
Lol the mics are horrendous
A theory is a field of study -- an explanation. A law is something that ALWAYS happens under a given set of circumstances -- a description. A fact is a bit of information that is verifiably true. Evolution is a fact AND a theory.
"I didn't see Pluto nor did I experience his Gravity, so Pluto doesn't exist."
Personal experience is not the proof of non-existence. For a claim of existence however you'll expect to see some evidence.
Just when I thought this caller was really stupid, he lowered the bar with his morality argument. People find ways around what's supposed to be "wrong" indefinitely. That doesn't mean they just didn't find god, because even the most religious and supposed good Christians constantly warp and slant their ways just to get what they want or to be comfortable. They are still animals, just with a belief system to make them feel as though they do the right thing or people should assume they do the right thing because of their "Christianity" badge.
To my pet dog.
All joking aside, the discussion was not about comparing morals between entities, so it doesn't matter with respect to whom.
It's specifically about the question of Christ's morality. It is my position that Christ was immoral for the reasons I stated.
Do you have a rebuttal?
Hey Nick. How about you answer my question for a change? I know you find questions scary, but let's try...
What reasons can you give us to accept Creationism? Why should we believe what you believe?
Correction - al the apostles are said to have been martyred in the same text that is also used as proof of Jesus.
Though the topic of evolution has very little to do with religion I'd just like to point out that where the proof of evolution is very compelling and based on unbiased and peer revived data, the historicity of Jesus and the actions and deaths of his apostles by comparison is based on hearsay.
Day 1 - God created light and separated the light from the darkness, calling light "day" and darkness "night."
Day 2 - God created an expanse to separate the waters and called it "sky."
Day 3 - God created the dry ground and gathered the waters, calling the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters "seas." On day three, God also created vegetation (plants and trees).
According to Abrahamic theists such as Christians, the world was created in 7 days.
We know that God rested on the seventh day, Saturday, so we are down to 6 days.
He did nothing on the second day, Monday, so we are down to 5 days.
If you think he did something on Monday, please explain.