I'll qoute a master of the arts of Master Duel and Yugioh as a whole known for his gaming skill and dominance over the Burn- Yeah is Farfa: "Oh is it finally my turn!? I watched three daily dose of internet videos all for me to just what? Normal Summon get negated! Activate A- OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! AAUUUUUGGGHHHHH!!!! THIS GAME!!!!" In Summary Maxx C is just awful.
The worst feeling. when you are actualy having a great hand and are trying to see the line and your opponent just say draw phase maxx c and you just like... great, i wasted 10 minutes for nothing while my opponent probably edge him self while performing his combo
For modern Yugioh, the card really should've had some kind of "if you control no cards" clause to prevent exactly this from happening. It invalidates the one thing it's supposedly trying to do, which is help Player 2 catch up after Player 1's hyper combo
@@Aigis31 personally i think maxx c should be split into 2 effects that both works the same with drawing cards if opponent special summons but differ in how they work; 1 effect has a "if you control no cards" clause to even activate while the other can only be activate if you control 1 or more cards but you only get to draw if the opponent controls more cards then you do when they special summon a monster and this is so various boards with cards on field can still use maxx c even but with a drawback
That's why I always surrendered. Then eventually I just got tired of seeing that lame card and now auto scoop on sight. Life is too short and I only play this game for fun
Nib is useless against most meta decks because they can get to a generic negate like Barone under 4 summons or the combo line just plays through nib making a reasonably good board.
this was truer at nib's release, but now any combo deck worth its salt puts up Baronne or an equivalent negate by summon 5, or they can still play through and make a passable board. Now, nib is alright into combo, but totally hamstrings some midrange decks, just like the roach. I do agree though that it is a lot fairer than the roach. I still want the lil bastard banned but am open to a replacement that actually does what casuals and roach backers say it does. A free upstart at minimum just for the opponent playing the game while still scaling is just insane
The nightmare scenario is when someone sets up a board and you start trying to break it and they bust out Maxx C. There are few things less fair in this world than being tasked with breaking a board while your opponent is drawing more hand traps to fuck you over. There's very little you could do to balance it other than to make it so that Maxx C can only be activated if you haven't used a card effect and that once it resolves no card effects can be used until the end of the turn.
thats actually a sweet idea, if they take the maxx c challenge at least they cant keep impermanence and ashing you lol, or maybe it can say draw up to 3 cards
@@bigbangattack97Special summoning is the game's main mechanic and drawing is the most universally powerful effect in the game. There's no situation in which a card like Maxx C should exist without heavy restriction. And before you say it, rewriting the text to read "you only win if you draw this going second" isn't a solution
@@kimjung-un8204No need for that, just hit them so they can't put up a negate before their 5th summon, or are able to play through 2-3 hand traps. Just make them high risk-high reward decks, instead of little risk-high reward that they are now
@@arjanzweers6542 then those decks will get replaced by another broken combo. You'll be in the same cycle of broken combo decks. So u either nerf every deck or keep 1 card in that you'll not have in every hand
I main dark world and I once won by making them draw half their deck with their max C and then use card destruction 😂 but joke aside I hate max C from all my heart as a dark world player 🥲
One thing I only want from maxx C as an ocg player. It can only active if you control no card. Because if you maxx c on first turn you can at least play around but the worst part is you go second on establish board + maxx c.
The whole Maxx C countering combo always baffled me. Midrage decks tended to suffer more due to the card, and a combo deck is able to set up their board and drop a maxx c on top of it. Another thing to note it that Maxx C forces combo decks to grow even more degenerate. So they look to lock you out from using any of the 12 cards you're drawing off of maxx c more than a board of one for one interactions. It pushes the extremes of the game further
Midrange deck like solfachord can summon ariseheart+grandsolfachoed coolia in 4 summon(ocg doesn't ban ariseheart), so draw the out i quess. i don't play handtraps in this type of deck because solfachord or pendulum are always all in or bust Deck including maxx c, and rely on either i lose immediately or winning instantly. This is how i play in ocg and master duel, let's say im playing Vaylantz going first and my opponent maxx c me, good luck with your draw because i will still summon fossil and hope you draw the out, which then i lose instantly if you did draw the out for secret village and fossil lock.
Card draw, especially slow card draw that either happens over multiple turns or at the end of a turn after you combo off, tends to benefit mid range decks a lot more than combo. Combo decks don't really work on longer horizons, being able to draw into something that gives you a better play the next turn isn't particularly relevant but in something like swordsoul drawing taia off of chixao can be very good, since you might have to play into a bit of a board turn 3 and that gives you more options then. Combo is a bit more likely to punish you for giving them an extra draw off of maxx c and not set up a board, but its not like mid range can't capitalize on weak boards just as well. Mid range ok the other hand is somewhat likely to be able to win even through a turn skip, since the decks tend to be tailored for a longer time frame.
@@shawnjavery currently master duel have an event without maxx c in synchro and link Sky striker sweep the floor with a literal and im not joking here, 92% win rate, some deck like striker and tenpai mahjong dragon are designed around maxx c and floodgate existing we have two tops in ocg in a quite moderate tournament 50 players last week, they don't play maxx c they play straight floodgates like kaiser and others. basically you have to pick two side deck options, countering blind 2nd deck that utilize floodgates or go straight countering combo deck with lava golem etc, maxx c absolutely useless against tenpai dragon because once they get one battle phase there's no another turn. Let's say sky striker and mahjong dragon, they are more than happy to sit on ticabo or kaiser colloseum and you shuffling your hand in frustration, tenpai will straight up murder you in their turn. Forcing them going 2nd? BOY, tenpai dragon otk through literally a prosperity active like wtf.
I feel like the biggest reason for the insane power creep in recent years is because of maxx c. The japanese developers of the game have to account for the card everytime they develop new cards
Maxx C isn't a card that exists in a vacuum. The more powercreep that gets introduced to Yugioh, the stronger Maxx C gets. Its better to see it banned sooner than later. In the era of things like Branded Fusion, or Original Sinful Spoils - Snake Eye, etc... it doesn't make sense to make strong decks even stronger with it.
In the absence of "mak[ing] strong decks even stronger", you have broken decks with no counter play other than using the same tired broken decks. Maxx C enables SOME variance to deck building, which if nonexistent, feeds into more and more people quitting the game.
@@Truest-Repairman Maxx C just makes everyone fill their deck space with copies of Ash Blossom, Called by the Grave, Crossout Designator, etc... before they decide what deck they want to play so they do not lose to it. That's the opposite of variance.
@@CronoEpsilon I mean, I disagree for a lot of reasons, but I'm too tired to get into all of them, so just answer this, do you not need those hand traps anyway? Maxx C is banned in the TCG, and MOST good players main deck all of those.
@@Truest-Repairman well, usage of hand traps like Ash Blossom, Droll & Lock Bird, etc... tend to decrease and increase depending on what the format looks like and what is demanded of you. Maxx C is a card that, unless banned, sticks around regardless due to how busted it is. I agree that deck design nowadays can get pretty outrageous, but having Maxx C as "check" to that clearly doesn't work. That's what the banlist is for.
@@CronoEpsilon You can't attempt to speak sensibly and end with nonsense, then it just nullifies everything you said before it. Like, bro, you used Maxx C on me, then Droll and Lock Birded yourself. "That's what the ban list is for"? You HAVE to know that's an idiotic notion. I assume you haven't been playing long enough, so let me spell it out for you. Konami will not ban cards upon release, so it's fundamentally the case that there's at least one broken mechanic live at any given time, and this has basically always been true. Beyond that, most of the time, cards don't even end up on the ban list until after new cards come out, which themselves are ban worthy. It's an endless cycle that's existed for at least 15 years now. The ban list has not ever worked in the way you're describing it, and it's incredibly naïve to think that it ever will. I need you to understand that I don't mean to be toxic to you, I just strongly disagree with what you said.
One thing that doesn't seem to get talked about much is how maxx c affects the development of the game itself. Since maxx c is legal in the ocg, and cards are first designed for the ocg in mind, there's a very good chance (this is speculation i don't know this for certain) that when combo archetypes are designed they are designed in a way to try and handle maxx c. This in effect has at least the potential to increase the power ceiling of a deck. Either by making it so the deck can make power plays with fewer summons or make it so you can take the challenge and still win. Thus we see an increase in either the outright power level of combo pieces or we see decks that focus on generating floodgates on legs. I would bet the power creep would be at least a lot more contained if not for maxx c being legal in the ocg. We've seen so many decks become tier 0 and borderline tier 0 in the tcg when they where just tier 1 in the ocg. This isn't to say we should unban maxx c in the tcg to solve the issue, but there is something problematic with cards being designed for a completely different format thus requiring the tcg to compensate with the banlist (an imperfect solution but at least its something). Honestly I've believed for a long time now that having the tcg and the ocg separate is a big issue for the game on a design level. It allowed Konami to also rarity bump cards that are known to be very strong because they've been thoroughly playtested for 3 months before being released here. The game would be in a much better state overall if the tcg and ocg got sets released at the same time, had the same banlist, and always had all the same rulings (the 2020 update helped standardize for the most part). The problem is that they've been separate for so long now it may be difficult to make things equal without making the player base of one of (or both of) the regions upset. Banning maxx C may not be something everyone in the OCG would support but may be healthier for the game overall for both regions moving forward without engaging in more drastic changes. Thank you for coming to my TED talk have a great day!
I always said that the solution to the Banlist Issues (because in the earlier years of the game, there was only one Banlist shared by both Formats, but this was causing issues specially in the OCG side since the TCG side was holding them back) should not have been making 2 Banlists, but to actually allow the TCG to catch up with the OCG and then start relasing the sets Worldwide. That was common sense Of course, the decision was made before Maxx "C" was even a thing
@@alpha34098 I remember the banlist split and short term it was a good solution but I did fear the long term effects it would have on the game even then. It didn't solve the underlying issue of cards being designed for what is essentially a different game. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts
Nothing better shows this than how Super Heavy Samurai was handled in the OCG vs the TCG. In the OCG the deck was around for a good amount of time, more than a couple months while in the TCG it got hit on the banlist after 2 weeks. So the entire card philosophy in the OCG allowing maxx c exists helps facilitate decks like SHS and Snake Eyes coming into existence, while the TCG gets the products later and has to handle the aftermath.
@@mikewilson3346 Don't remind me of that. Scarecrow's Ban was one of the most terribly implemented in TCG's recent history. Not just because because of the piece that was banned in that moment (everybody was expecting Soulbreaker Armor being Banned to ensure fair play by getting rid of the FTK, not Scarecrow) but also the timing of the Ban (2 Weeks is not enough time to measure a deck's Perfomance specially when you consider that SHS is also a Pendulum Deck and the most dominant Deck is one that is Anti-Pendulum). If this Ban happened in the September 2023 Banlist, people would've tolerated the Ban better (or not since Kashtira would have still have made the Deck almost impossible to play)
The separation of formats/different banlists/rarity bumps/card quality being tissue in tcg but decently durable in ocg is, in my eyes, revenge for USA dropping 2 nukes on Japan.
The OCG is allergic to banning too many cards because the Pokemon TCG almost died when set rotation was introduced and japanese players were told their old cards weren't legal for standard play anymore, this gave YGO a massive bump in popularity as players migrated to the game.
The problem with Maxx “C” is that huge sections of the modern game were and continue to be developed assuming it’s still legal at three copies. Its presence was an incorporated concern of card design that contributed directly to accelerating modern power creep. Now, every deck either was built around it, or built around other decks built around it.
As a retired OCG player, I think TCG players tend to overvalue draws and it's part of the reason why OCG players don't consider it as big as a deal. Relevant side tangent: Roughly 10 years ago, Upstart Goblin took off in popularity in the TCG, nearly every deck ran 3 copies of the card, and I remember hearing the phrase "37 card deck" thrown around at the time. And yet, it never caught on the OCG, sure there were a few who experimented with it but overall it just didn't hit off as much as it did in the TCG. And I think it's because the OCG players don't value the extra draw as much as the TCG did. This next part is anecdotal, so take with a grain of salt. But from what I observed when I was playing in OCG locals and regionals, OCG players are more willing to take the maxx c challenge. And if you ask them why, most will say that it doesn't matter if the opponent draws 4+ cards, if none of the draws can break the board then those draws are meaningless.
I still remember having discussions over Upstart Goblin before it became popular. We knew the card was extremely powerful as a generic draw but at the time we could only justify playing it in very aggressive decks since the game was more grindier, trying to out-value your opponent over a few turns with good trades and resource loops so I guess we didn't see a single card draw as explosive as running an extra staple, starter or extender and maybe also put too much value on Lifepoints since we were so focused on finding lethal each turn. Now I think we'd all run 3 copies of it much like Solemn Judgment.
based take from you and your fellow ocg players. The tcg land just really dislikes the saccy maxx c after making the unbreakable board play, but in reality it really doesn't happen often enough to warrant a ban on the roach. As many others have stated, it's a tool to be utilized and played around like any other handtrap
That's sounds like a recipe for losing every game you play vs Maxx. Unless it is tier 0 vs a tier 3 deck that doesn't sound like a challenge that sounds like a suicide that before factoring drawing more hand traps
@@robertterrell7057 If the opp makes a tough to break board and drops a maxx c, if you play through it despite the maxx c, then you might win because the opponent didn't draw anything that can help break your own board. If you don't play through it, then you're just giving up and guaranteeing a lost.
As an OCG player, many of us misunderstand about TCG players. They often tells "ew TCG players only want to summon their whole deck and that's reasoning behind banning Maxx C. banning Maxx C = full combo deck meta!". I wish there were more communications between OCG players and TCG players talking about their POV.
I would love for a larger discussion on the tcg vs ocg mindset. Unfortunately the language barrier is very hard to get past. Plus a ton of creators just don't have intrest in doing crossovers.
Watching the 1 still legal copy of Maxx C sack game 3 of Nationals on stage in 2017 first hand... proved to me right then the problem and why we'd lose it forever
@@MonkeyFightTCG i'd argue it's still sacky at 3, when a single card controls the tempo of the full game. There's never a time when "of course you have maxx C" isn't expressed haha
I know i already posted a comment, but i wanna add to the Maxx "C" canundrum. Theres a cool trap card called backup team, which says "Draw cards equal to the cards your opponent control, and then put carda on the bottom of the deck equal the number your draw. Essencially a Mulligan. WHAT if maxx c had a mulligan effect? Discard it, draw cards for each special summon, then shuffle back in the endphase to the deck equal to the number draw? I think its a great option! Dig into your 1-offs, your go 2nd cards, specific pieces to outplay the board. You can still use handtraps, but you end with a lower hand size. It can even reset garnets! I think this could be a cool idea for a good card going 2 and decent goung 1st.
Turning Maxx "C" into a Mulligan style of card which can only work going second (because lets be realistic, no one really wants to Mulligan going first since they would be in disadvantage, i do know that from experience as a MTG Player/Connoisseur)? That's a good idea! Nice Thinking!
Maybe if it made you banish the cards as you drew them, it'd be more fair. You still get the mulligan and a chance to draw most of your deck, but then you have to choose between maintaining turn 1 interaction or preserving your combo pieces for the crackback. An effect as powerful as Maxx C's should carry some risk aside from turning on Talents.
@@Neon-yj9xw That's not a good idea if you want to keep Maxx "C" as an Side Deck staple for going second and what we need is to limit its use by Going First Players after the made their combo There's only 4 decks that do work with Banished card and of those, only 2 of them work completely (D.D. and Gren Maju) and 2 do so partially (Floowanderezze with the Level 1s and Kashtira with Thesis, Overlap and Big Bang). Everything else will never benefit of your errata. And for that, just keep it banned in the TCG
Maxx c only need a certain clause to make it way healthier, which is " you can activate this card when your opp control more card in the field than you do" that way we can avoid maxx c most toxic feature : Being used after having estabilished board.
Maxx C New effect: While you control no card(s) on the field, if your opponent special summons a monster,(Quick effect) you discard this card to draw 1 card each time your opponent special summon a monter(s) until end of this turn. You can not activate the effects of cards in hand for the rest of this turn.
This is an interesting way to do it and does solve the problem of maxx c going first, but its still very overpowered going second. There's technically more room to play around it too. I think maxx c would still see insane usage but maybe more as a side deck card. It's hard to say.
It'd still be a turn skip handtrap which is why I don't think I can agree with this sure it's only for the going first player but it creates non games which is something I'd rather have Yu-Gi-Oh move away from.
Still not balanced. This one is better. Maxx-"C" During your opponent's turn (quick effect): You can send this card from your hand to your GY; for the rest of this turn, each time your opponent special summons a monster(s), draw 1 card. You can draw a maximum of 2 cards with this effect. You must control no cards on your field to activate and resolve this effect.
@@dominickangelo4319 thats trash for going 2nd. it should be like this: (Quick Effect): If you control no cards you can discard this card to your GY; for the rest of this turn, each time your opponent Special Summons a monster(s), draw 1 card. During the End Phase of the turn you activated this effect: Shuffle cards from your hand into your Deck equal to the amount of Special Summoned monsters your opponent controls but no more than the amount of cards that would cause you to have less than 7 cards in your hand except if your opponent controls only 1 monster, if they do, then shuffle cards from your hand into your Deck until you have 6 cards left in your hand. This allows me to draw into potential handtraps to interact with their plays and this doesnt make opponent skip the turn, as they know that at the end of the turn you will just have 6 to 7 cards in your hand in total. This also allows the goign 2nd player to stack his hand with cards they want to keep, giving them easier time playing 2nd. And this also prevents opponent from using the card going 1st then dropping it on your opponent after establishing a board. It solves all problems.
Maxx C was designed for a different card game that no longer exists, where you had the option to not totaly combo off and not lose instantly for it. And those turns where players would combo off were often OTKs on that very turn rather than a first turn play meaning the card advantage you got from the roach might not actualy help you, especially with hand traps being less of a thing. The idea that Maxx C keeps combo decks in check in just plain fallacious. Those combo decks don't go away because of it as we have seen. They run Maxx C and the outs like Called and Ash just as any other deck does. And the decks that aren't hard oppressed by Maxx C are not just those huge combo decks. With a few specific exceptions decks these days need a decent few to set something up that doesn't leave them a total sitting duck.
@@MonkeyFightTCG yeah the inherent downsides of tributing basically force designers to make tribute based decks like monarchs, true draco, and floowandereeze to cheat around the mechanic and rely on toxic and overpowered effects to justify the investment.
They've tried that with stuff like monarchs, True Draco and even floo. The issue is to offset the downsides you have to absolutely load them with effects that are warping around it to where you loop back to the one sided game issue.
If Special Summoning a bunch of times in a single turn wasnt so fixated in modern deck philosophy and the powercreed wouldn't just make it worse with combos and endless Special Summons, Maxx C wouldn't even be at the top position it is right now. Im not even a Yugiboomer and I like Combos to a certain extend, but I feel like the prominece Maxx C has, has a lot of people forget that Maxx C gets worse the older the Format is and it wasn't always the most broken card in existence I feel like Maxx C is just a symptom of how modern Yugioh is evolving into Personally speaking, I don't have strong feelings about the cockroach, but I can definetly understand why people want it banned and how polarizing it is in modern formats (tho I play rather casually, I still play some combo decks)
effectively when are we going to be done with this "1 card brings out 20 more" which is essentually just card advantage in anouther form, the very thing anti maxx c people claim maxx c is broken for. like its genuinely annoying playing master duel even against the ai when i kill a monster, and suddenly its activating a effect from the graveyard that summons anouther monster, to the field that i have to deal with, likely one thatl do the same thing. and when a opponent summons a monster, it summons a friend, they use the first monster to summon a new mosnter, that new monster then revives the old monster, ect ect, like they may as well say "Do anything, Summon a monster from the deck" theres NO GOD DAMN END!!! people wonder why i defend maxx "c"? this is why, why should it be legal to summon 1 monster that one monster suddenly turns into 10-20 others, ending on a near unstoppable board all while they still hold 4 cards in hand, but apparently me drawing even 1 card to attempt to stop/break them in response to their summon is broken and unfair card advantage? Like bro WHAT??? you just played 1 monster, and went through half youre deck, how am i getting unfair card advantage for drawing a single random extra card?
The thing that frustrates me about online Maxx C discussion is how fatalistic it is. You hear more about how "if Maxx C resolves you instantly win/lose", while I've seen OCG deck guides include Maxx C lines in them. But from talking online you'd get the impression that the card has a 100% win rate versus any deck that isn't Floo. Given that Maxx C is in MD, you'd expect to see competitive content on it, but no. You don't get any advice on good lines for a deck that give your opponent 1/2 draws - instead, you get "I hate Maxx c". Which is valid but completely useless for getting better at the game.
i feel its just insane that konami has refused to errata or replace maxx c. its not like its a particularly hard task either. i was throwing possible erratas at a wall with a friend, and we came up almost immediately with the idea of just putting back as many cards you drew at the end phase. lets you draw into more handtraps at the risk of having to minus at the end of it all, and also allows the opponent to set up the ocg's flawed idea of a compromised board without giving the absurd advantage of like, 4-5+ cards for some decks. this also broadens the decks that arent affected too much by maxx c, since some decks are naturally resistant to common handtraps (innately or after a certain point in their combo). in fact, i think this would be a much more interesting game of testing ones luck, seeing how far you can take your board without just getting btfo by nib draw.
The reason it is so popular is because the combo wombo insanity has reached an all time fever pitch. If the combo plays weren’t all over the place, and yugioh wasn’t so powercrept, players wouldn’t be running this counter in the form of maxx “c” so often. Konami did this to themselves. Maxx “C” is only as crazy as the meta itself. Tone down the meta and maxx “c” would see less play naturally. But they want crazy combo decks. They want the game to be played like this. So it has to be banned because there’s no going back from the insanity of special summon power creep that already exists. People would be mad if the game slowed down to old yugioh at this point, so you can’t unbake that cake.
OCG uses best of 1 at alot of their Swiss rounds in tournaments. Company won’t admit it but they won’t ban it because it keeps the illusion that you can lose die roll and still win going 2nd. Most people need to stop thinking that the card legality is about game health and not apart corporate earnings. If TCG ever gets best of 1 Swiss rounds we will get maxx c back as well.
From what I've seen on general discussion is that the separation of OCG and TCG has resulted in a power-creep runaway situation in the TCG because of the way cards are designed in the OCG first where Maxx C is much more widely-accepted. So thus the tolerably-powerful OCG cards become overbearing once they reach the international TCG format, and because Yu-Gi-Oh uses a banlist instead of set-based rotations like other TCG's e.g. Pokemon, older cards don't come-and-go so problem cards are at the whims of the banlist outside of the rare situation of a nerfing errata. Divergence of rulesets in my opinion harms more games than it helps since even if the core elements are the same, then discourse over the competitive scene will become muddied due to how differently the game is played between regions, particularly when it's a game that gets new content on a regular basis and especially when that content's release window is staggered between regional formats.
Who the fuck has fun activating Maxx C on their opponent?? Ive never enjoyed a single match where the card had been used, no matter if I win or lose, I hate using it and hate playing against it and I cannot understand how you can enjoy using it against your opponent
Konami really went 'What if we gave new decks the swarming power of Blackwings... but also if you remove their monsters they just get even more value!'
I dont care what anybody says they need to ban maxx c in master duel i hate that card i freaking hate having to deal with a maxx C 90% of my games absolutely ridiculous.
I still feel that the best reasons for banning the card are quite simple: 1. Card drawing is arguably the most powerful effect in a game with no resource system. 2. Special summoning at least 3 or four times is done by almost every deck in the game. In a game that has every generic draw spell either banned, limited, or heavily restricted such a powerful generic draw effect has to go.
If you play around Nibiru and only summon 4 times, 1 of them being your normal summon, your opponent draws 3 cards from Maxx C. And that amount of Special Summon was deemed as a healthy amount based on Nibiru's design.
@@dudono1744the difference between nib and maxx is that if you play around nib they get nothing, and have a dead card in their hand next turn. if you "play around" maxx c, you either forfeit your turn or give them a better hand than they started with comparing the two in this way is dishonest!
Maxx C essentially is a quick effect turnskip floodgate handtrap which only affects the opponent. In terms of the impact it hs on the gameplay experience, it's like a generic main deck rhongo which summons itself from hand as a quick effect. It's the worst floodgate in the game by far.
@@MonkeyFightTCG because everyone maindecks 3-6 copies of the equivalent of xyz encore/herald of the abyss or, as is the case with a select few decks, factored the ability to survive a turnskip into their gameplan. Back when Rhongo was legal, the best players also played around it l. Pro players will by definition find ways to work with or somewhat play around anything, but the existence of these very specific ways is in no way, shape or form a justification for the cards being legal. My point is that if it resolves, and if you do not happen to play a specific anti-Maxx C version of a select few decks which even can be played in that way, the opponent might as well have summoned a 4 material rhongo from hand. It's effect is as severe in terms of outcome as the most heinous, toxic and even lingering floodgates while being a generic,unconditional quick effect hand trap, which therefore makes it worse than all of them. Thus, it ought to be judged as such. To be logically consistent, if we claim this one is fine in principle, all are and we consequently have no basis to ban any of them. If, however, we say that the game is objectively better the less of them are in play, it ought to be banned.
@@Disappointed_Philosoraptor then why are the best players able to play around maxx "C" without specific counters and just with the generic cards in their deck. I think you're missing the entire picture here, just because you hate the card so much
@@MonkeyFightTCG I believe I did lay out my reasoning, which was not based on hate but the points I brought up. Anyway, to answer your question "why are the best players able to play around maxx "C" without specific counters and just with the generic cards in their deck": They aren't. Have you looked at the deck lists for the master duel WCS 2023 for instance? Every single deck brought to the event was 1.) part of a select group of decks which can be geared to somewhat play around maxx C or outright ignore it 2.) heavily geared around mxx C 3.) had the maximum avaliable number of counters to Maxx C in the deck (excpet the decks which do not care about maxx C resolving due to 1) and 2). So, in short, if you pre-select which deck you choose to play based on which decks can best complete their gameplay even if the roach resolves, and then also further tweak it to more optimally deal with the roach and then also run all the outs avaliable, you end up with a situation where all the pros can handle maxx c with just the "generic cards" in their deck. What you're looking at though is survivorship bias. It's why looking just at the top players will give a distroted imagine of what is actually happening and lead to false conclusions. To illustrate the pinciple at play, there's a joke: "99% of all participants of our study answered that they enjoy filling out surveys. We conclude that 99% of the population live to answer our surveys" The reason the "winning deck", natura Runic, won, was that it was the best at handling maxx C while maintaining a good enough power level in doing so. Watch the entirety of Josh's stream where you got that clip from, he does state exactly that. On the MD ladder, you can play decks which lose to maxx C if their overall powerlevel is good enough, because as long as enough other players also play decks which lose to maxx C (which is just about every compentitve deck in MD for just about the entire existence of Master duel) the losses you take will be counterbalanced with wins over a big enough sample size so long as you yourself also play Maxx C at 3. Sorry for the super long comments btw. The topic is too complex to tackle in just a few lines.
You can't play around Maxx C, if you can't special summon you can't play the game. Giving your opponent free draws is not a viable strategy. Other hand traps in the game are far more interactive, Nibiru also punishes special summoning but theres lots of interesting ways to adjust your combo if you think your opponent has it in hand. You mentioned droll in this video as not giving you a choice, but you can build your deck in such a way that you can play through droll, which is interesting and can be fun especially when you get to execute your strategy in game. Maxx C doesn't give you any of these options, you either draw the out or pass your turn and hope for the best. It's not fun, it's not fair, it's not interactive. It's overpowered and bad for the game.
For real, I started playing yugioh again when masterduel came out and hadn’t played in years prior to that, seeing how much people special summoned and how fast they got boss monsters on the field was baffling
but there objectively is, as shown in the video. You might not like that it's a skill issue but there's a reason that top players (and most players in general) can sometimes handle the card in competitive games. you can go into a floodgate, go into a secondary low special summon play, you can play a deck that doesn't rely on special summons, you can build counters into your decks, you can chain special summons to maxx "C" and you can use it to deck them out in very niche case.
@@MonkeyFightTCG There might also be a small skill issue, that is right, but all your playarounds come down to the deck choice. (Floodgates, you have to play them in the first place - secondary low SS play, not every deck can do that - play a deck without special summons (aka Floo exactly), LITERALLY deck choice - play counters, you have to draw them (shouldn't be reliant on drawing specific non engine) - Chain to the roach, few decks can do that - deckout, you already said: niche case) I disagree that one single card should rule out what feels like half of the otherwise viable deck choices; usually there is no REAL playaround aside from drawing the out or hard drawing interruptions to defend yourself from an OTK You might also note that the overall winrate of Maxx C in the World Championship is lowered by the fact that the winning team specifically played decks that are good into maxx C (Runick Naturia, Tear, Labrynth), Joshua himself explained that. Please don't misunderstand my comment with hate, I really liked you video, I just disagree that there are generic playarounds for Maxx C that every or at least most meta viable decks can use.😅
If I were to give Maxx "C" an Errata to make it more fair it would be like this: You can only activate the following Effect if you control no monsters: ( Quick Effect ) You can discard this card, draw cards equal to the amount of times ypur opponent special summoned monsters at the time of this cards activation. You can only use this Effect of Maxx "C" once per turn. That way you're opponent cant set up like 5+ Negates and additionial interruptions and THEN just Maxx C during draw for an additional kick to the nuts. Also the revised Draw Effect makes it take more skill to use, since unless the Deck doesent set up an Negate at all, you have decide when its the best moment to use it.
Literally the reason I quit master duel. Pendulums can’t really play Handtraps so everytime someone maxx c’s me and I don’t have an out, I kinda auto lose
They’re my favorite deck, why would I play Master Duel if I can play my favorite deck in other ways. Sure I got to master rank playing other decks but I don’t like those decks
@@cydra_infinity1423pendulum especially Vaylantz is the only deck in the game that can full lock my opponent with fossil and village This interaction is straightforward banned in your format because you don't have access electrum, you have a literal wincon here in ocg and master duel, and the reasons why Vaylantz is the most successful pendulum deck past 3 years.
i play pend magician but made room for called by/ash just because of maxx c, though dropping a few copies of some monsters causing bricking a few times
I agree with the end point very much of wanting a more balanced Maxx "C" as I feel like some tool to keep more aggro decks is needed in this game. Maybe having it work similar to Niburu in which you can only activate it after your opponent commits to X amount of special summons as a way to allow for those ftks decks to suffer the worst while other decks can play around giving your opponent 1~2 draws
This would still be a buff to ftk decks if the most important effect that needs to resolve is the 1st few effects(like isolde for example) And ofc being an FTK deck they dont give shit about the opponent drawing 30 cards since they wont be able to use those cards due to the FTK deck… ftking the opponent.
I think an aspect that's somewhat underdiscussed in this video is the shift in how Crossout is played in TCG and OCG, because Crossout is such an interesting card that interacts with how Maxx "C" as a core of OCG/MD Mainly, how OCG decided to limit Crossout, but how it's mostly fine in TCG, it's one of those things I'd like to research the data myself if I had the time, but how staples are a bit more homogenous in OCG/MD has affected Crossout's playability in a very interesting way, mainly because Crossout is a card that is so heavily affected by the cards around it Mostly spitballing, but that's a topic I'd like to see explored
This is a fair point. I had though about it a bit and was at one point going to compare direct deck lists from the ocg and tcg featuring a crossout package. It didn't make the final cut since I felt I didn't have enough to say about it. Glad to see someone else had similar thoughts
I appreciate your thoroughness in this, it's nice to see some real analysis to highlight the card's virtues and problems. For me, I just look at it from a game design perspective and to that end your video is very valiuable. My personal perspective is that I don't like neither playing the card nor having it played against me, in either scenario it gives me a feeling of arbitrariness that sort of taints the outcome of the game for me, and reduces the interesting complexity in a similar way to playing a card stating "flip a coin, heads you win, tails you lose" (hyperbole notwithstanding). In earnest though, it's not so much Maxx C that bothers me, it's the game as a whole, the monetization and design factors cementing cards like this to be a part of Yugioh. It's why even if I like to watch videos about Yugioh, I don't actively play it or participate in it beyond that.
not all special summons are made equally. if i make a live twin board and my opponent makes a mannadium board we summon about the same amount of times but you will never complain about the LT setup as much as mannadium bc LT doesn't make 4 generic negates even if you play it with spright or whatever other package you want to run special summons aren't the problem it's the boards they create and the access to generically powerful options they give
I feel like the shot at Hardleg was a little uncalled for. Bro just fuckin hates the bug, as most of us do lol. At least he's trying to do something about it.
Nah, I mean HardLeg has been around for years and put out 50,000 non Maxx C related YGO content most of which have been bigger hits then you could have ever done. But go on, ,We are not here to bash each other. Just display the facts and statistics without dismantling someone else's credentials and character.
I am both a MD and OCG player, and I think your video is on point! Good job. I personally hate this card because Maxx C limited our deck choice very much. Thanks to Maxx C, every OCG format is a handtrap format as handtraps have so much synergy with it. Rendering decks with little non-engine room useless unless they go for stun or ftk. This is why combo Runick was never been found in the OCG.
I think a VERY frustrating aspect of Maxx "C" is Ash Blossom, and the fact that you still have to run it even in formats where it's a bad card because it stops the autowin card. A good example of that is right now with Snake Eye, Ashing Snake Eye is almost always actively detrimental to you as any advantage you might've gained from doing so is immediately cancelled out by giving your opponent a Hiita target, and what's worse is that Snake Eye can wield Maxx "C" to FORCE that Hiita target out of you. Maxx "C" is and always will be an unhealthy card but it is particularly toxic in the current upcoming metagame.
well the data shows that you don't always have to run ash blossom to counter maxx "C" and it's format dependent. However you're right that it does boost the usage of ash blossom and ash blossom can be toxic in certain metagames.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and came up with a theory. One of the reasons Maxx C remains legal in the OCG and MD is because it provides an easy foundation for Konami's banlist decisions. If a powerful and meta relevant deck can play through it, that deck needs hit. It is why Branded and Kash were hit so hard whereas Snake Eye not so much (besides money of course). Tenpai SS a lot, but their field spell and battle phase oriented style limits Maxx C impact, so their field spell got hit. I believe for the OCG and MD, the 3 foundations for their F&L decisions are money, degeneracy, and Maxx C.
I feel like [in the OCG], because Maxx "C" isn't banned; OCG can continue to create insanely proven cards because "Maxx "C" will keep the deck in check". What happens as a result of that is that when those cards come to TCG, it just becomes significantly more toxic.
Well the data leans toward it having a larger impact being used going second. But maxx c being used going first definitely is more frustrating and toxic.
Thats cuz theres a battle phase going 2nd so that decks can essentially do what an FTK deck can do going first(an FTK deck can win going first even if maxx c is used against it since it doesnt need the battle phase)
I'm gonna be pretty honest, I despise handtraps but I really like the design of Imperm so for me every single handtrap should have at least the Gamma restrictions
same can be said about those who irrationally hate on the card with no feedback besides "Just ban it" when it exists for a reason, it doesnt exist in a vacuum, maybe try tackling that issue, or perhaps its because its a subject you know you cant win?
I’ve been tinkering with the idea of how to balance Maxx “C”. My thoughts of balancing it, before finishing the video, is to lock you out of using the effects of all monsters nor being able to special summon monsters whose original type is not Insect for the rest of the duel. Is it extreme? Yes. But when you have the ability to go +10 or greater, especially with how some decks such as Lab can start their combos on your turn I thing it ia a fair trade.
I'm more casual observer than a competitive player, so bear with me. I don't like the argument that "It creates an unfair advantage", because it would open the floodgates to the idea that, by that same logic, measures should not be taken to nerf decks that run mostly 'Dark' attribute monsters? After all, the 'Dark' attribute is the one most supported, generating an unfair advantage for decks that run mostly 'Dark' attribute monsters, over decks that run mostly, for example, 'Wind', 'Earth', 'Water' and 'Fire' attribute monsters. Shouldn't they, therefore, also nerf 'Dragon' Type monsters? After all, Dragon is the most supported card type in the game, so a player who plays with a deck mostly made up of dragons would have an unfair advantage against players who play with decks mostly made up of fish or sea snake type monsters, right?
I had a thought to combine maxx C with pot of greed. Durning either players turn: If the opponent has Special Summoned more than twice (Quick Effect) You can discard this card; draw two card. You can only use this card once per turn.
Knawing "C" During either players turn: You can send this card from your hand to the graveyard; this turn, each time your opponent Special Summons a monster(s), immediately draw 2 cards and choose to discard 2 cards. If you do not discard a card or your opponent summons a monster(s) from the extra deck, this effect ends. You can only use 1 "Knawing" C"" per turn.
Speaking as a player that settled in rush duel links, a heavy "luck and single cards flip entire games on their head out of nowhere", the yugioh card game and master duel could really use new game rules to combat the ever evolving power creep and speed of the game. Yes I'm suggesting things like having altered versions of maxxC, ash, nibiru, drnm,shifter etc as new mechanics of the game rather than individual cards that need to be in your hand at right time.
Maxx “C” when I was playing around 2013/2014 wasn’t a bad card. It put you in check but it wasn’t horrible. You could still play. Now today, if you see Maxx “C” you auto lose because they either draw more hand traps or get multiple extenders to otk you. Every single Yugioh deck has a Combo to otk today with either 1 or 2 cards. That wasn’t the case 10 years ago.
I actually stopped playing master duel. Once you get to the higher ranks in master duels, getting maxc'd 5 games in a row.... sucks man. Or what about when u take ur pet deck as high as u can climb on the ranks. U lose the coin toss, go second againts a meta deck, making the climb to break the meta decks board, Just to get maxc'd on the 2nd turn of the game 😊
You playing higher ranked or nah ? Cause sometimes and I mean quite a bit Max c doesn't do mutch . Against the best decks it Doesn't do mutch occasionally. If anything it's better against combo heavy lower tier decks that take forever to set up they're 40 negates .
You've kinda hit the nail in the head as far as how I feel about it and in Master Duel. It isn't exactly a healthy card but a Bo3 format can still be fun to engage with even with the roach running around as even if you do end up losing, you still have another round to look forwards too. But unfortunately MD is a Bo1 format. It's bad enough that it's a Bo1 in the first place as I don't feel YGO was made for that, but with the roach running around it's just miserable to play sometimes. If it was Bo3, players would still be complaining but it wouldn't nearly be as unbearable as it is now.
My story with Maxx C dates back to 2011. It was that year ITalian nationals and the meta was full of X-Saber that amied to hand loop you. So I decided to main Maxx c even because it was synergistic with my deck (I was on a chaos synchron pile and Junk synchron just happen to revive Maxx C). I undertand how broken that card was when at round 1 I went against an X-Saber player. He activated boggard, chain maxx c. He asked what it does, I explained it to him, he said ok, proceed to make the full combo to handloop me without realizing that I was repleninshing any card h discarded and so he passed going -5, 1 faultroll on the field and I had 8 cards in hand. Today, I want to see the roach banned. It doesn't give me any enjoyent winning a game because I just happen to resolve a card nor it's enjoyable watching the opponent stopping my turn just for that. Sadly I don't think it will never happen because banning Maxx C would mean that the people running the TCG knows how to balance this game better than the people in Japan.
My problem with the game was the fact that Maxx C was even necessary. Or any hand traps for that matter. The amount of combos and negates introduced, were a mistake.
I just don't like the idea of a card that creates such a wide gap between if it resolves or not. It's too much variance for a card with an effect that strong. I honestly think Yu-Gi-Oh is one of the worst designed TCGs out there, and while a lot of the game's charm does come from that; it does just sometimes suck. Maxx "c" was made to curb some of those really shitty parts of the game, but the actual outcome was like trying to use gasoline to put out a house fire. Also best of one formats get to be incredibly frustrating for higher level play, I have said this since master duel's release and I still will with One Piece (I love the game, but tournaments being best of one can lead to variance determining a match more than skill.)
The errata I would give Maxx "C" is so that, after it resolves, until the End Phase of the next turn, you can only use summon and use the effects of Insect Type monsters. That way, while it would still be fairly strong, it be stuck being used in Decks that mainly only use Insects, one of the worse Types in the game. But, that could be the Solidarity enjoyer in me.
New Maxx c card idea. You can activate this card only on your opponent turn only and only on the very first chain link, you cannot active any other card from your hand this turn and this card activation cannot negate. At the end of the turn, you can draw cards in order to equalize total combination of card in hand and the field to both player. You can only activate this card ones per duel. Example if opponent have 5 card in hand and 10 cards in the field, and you have 5 card in hand and no card on the field, you draw 10 cards on the end of the turn.
Ultimately, I think its called "taking the Maxx C challenge" for a reason, when your opponent resolves Maxx C, you are expected to lose at that point, and playing against it is going to be a massive struggle.
as long as hand looping exist maxx C will live on, additionally a somple erreta can be yes you can draw cards, but must at the end of turn banish cards face down from your hand untill 5 are left.
I used to hate maxx c. Now I’m pretty unbothered by it. Mainly because modern yugioh is already a zero sum game filled with degenerate BS cards and combos anyway that at this point I just see it yet another degenerate card in a sea of other unfair cards and strategies. The general bs of modern yugioh has basically made me numb to even maxx c
Maxx C Is a card I consider as degenerate as the format itself. In a format like Tengu the card Is kinda ehhh, In HAT is actually a positive influence because it prevents Soul Charge pop-offs and infernity loops. It was around Pepe when the card started to become a problem and special summoning became mandatory. Now that Furawoss got released there's no more reason to keep it around, because there's now a fairer way to keep the combo decks in check. From my part I'll straight up refuse to touch a format where Maxx C would be OP, because those are degenerate combo/OTK fests... an oddly appropiate way of describing YGO for 8-9 years at this point if you ask me.
Replace it with... UltimateC: (Quick effect) If you have no cards on field of which you are the original owner of, if your opponent has summoned two or more times, you can discard this card, draw 1 card for every summon the rest of the turn. You cannot inflict lethal damage until the end of your opponents next turn. If your opponent activated a card in response to this card, you can return this from gy or banishment to deck, then add any 2 cards from deck to hand.
this maxx "C" seems quite a bit stronger than regular maxx "C" albeit one that can only go second. I'm mixed on this approach. I'd rather a weaker go second effect however one with an existing go first effect. something like you can banish this from your hand to draw one. also "You cannot inflict lethal damage until the end of your opponents next turn. " is a good conditional
At this point, I more sick of the Maxx "C" discussions than the card itself. I get it, you don't like the card but just stop bringing it up every post/ video/ comment you make. Personally, while I've come to accept its existence in MD, I'm not fond of it. Whether it is banned or not I'm fine either way.
It's hard not to talk about maxx-c when it's so universally playable and meta-defining. >90% play-rate is hard to just ignore unless you play either floow or stun (yay?)
I feel the card was balanced around the fact Konami didn't see special summoning becoming the main way to bring out monsters. Unfortunately for everyone in the game, that's exactly what happened & it made this card a must have.
@@MonkeyFightTCG sorry if that came across as a criticism, I doubt that you don’t, it’s just that maybe for me in MD, not many of my duels are decided because of maxx C even if it resolves when I’m playing a rogue tier deck. This makes me believe that the real issue is the stupid cards Konami print simply for money, if Ik in 2 months Konami will make a stupidly strong deck that’s going to get power crept in another 2 months, is maxx C really my biggest problem? Because when these cards come to masterduel it’s going to be so annoying to deal with. I thought it was a really well made video though. It’s just I remember the days of tear at like not even maxx power where someone would maxx c me and I would literally draw more cards than them on their turn wile under maxx c. That’s why I’m on neither of the ban maxx C argument.
Had a game on master duel a couple days ago where I played Maxx C on his opening turn, ended up with 20 cards in my hand. Even though he had 6 Synchro’s on the field, I had half my deck in my hand, two of every option lol.
My take is that everyone is who I play runs the same generic deck and theres no creativity or skill in it like ik how to counter or think of a new strategy on a fly but when i see someone with a maxx c package it speaks i got no skill and ash blossom just bait them cause they gonna activate it on the first card they see
Most of those arguements could be made about Ash blossom except that those arguements are strawmen against Maxx C. Maxx C doesnt do anything unlike Ash. Maxx C gives you options unlike the Unfun Joyous Spring.
The biggest issue with maxx c is there is no drawback to including it in your deck. I like to compare it with the original banned cards and the philosophy behind it. Was there EVER a time to NOT run pot of greed? No. Maybe you could argue some niche cases in todays super fast format but even now you would see pog at 98% play rate cause why not? Maxx c hit 95% for the same reason. Theres no downside to playing it. You know how terrible it is to open nibiru against eldlich, lab, traptrix, etc? Youll never get to activate it. Or some combo decks can put up a monster negate by summon 5 anyway. So theres a downside to playing it and you have to weigh the odds and the format to including it. If heroes are even tier 0, nibiru would be a staple main deck cause it blows them up but if lab is tier 0 nibiru is forgotten. Nibiru is good card design. It is designed to keep heavy combo decks in check while control decks wont be bothered. Maxx c hits every deck besides floowandereeze. Rather its an upstart or a deck out, it will draw you cards against virtually every deck you see. Thats what makes the card truly broken. Its astounding how a competitive tournament saw a 100% play rate on a card and though "tearlament is the problem". Maxx c has survived EVERY meta it has been legal in and has outlived every deck it is suppose to "check". It can go. The game will be fine without it. Learn how to actually counter each deck and quit relying on a brain dead bug to do the heavy lifting. Every format you should be reworking your staples for the format regardless of your deck. Ash isnt always needed, called by can be left out, crossout isnt even limited in the tcg because no one plays it. Maxx c is brain dead to include with no drawbacks with way too heavy of a payoff for including it in EVERY deck from stun to combo
Imo to fix this card atleast for me make it this. Make it do the same thing it does BUT added text that says " This effect can only be used when you control no cards You also cannot conduct your next battle phase" maybe that will fix it idk to be honest if that would fix it but it would help
My main issue with Maxx C is how it fruther reinforces extremes. Combo decks instead of holding back will instead play the Maxx C minigame and try to make an unbreakable board making all those cards the Maxx C user got useless. It doesn't really solve the issue but instead makes it worse. Obviously I'm not saying it should be banned. There are whole archetypes built around Maxx C being a thing cuz that's just how the OCG is. Pretty sure that's one of the issues with the TCG. Since they banned Maxx C new additins to the game end up being pretty strong since these new additions are made by Konami with Maxx C in mind. So if you ban Maxx C a bunch of decks will just go even more insane I think.
Most good decks in the ocg are good in the tcg because playing around maxx C usually means it is very low commitment high power so you have less points to be hit at. Maxx C getting banned means you have decks that become more fragile. Look at unchained. That thing could no do much in the ocg past fringe tops. It hits the TCG. Yes it pops off but it also has so many points of interaction where hitting it with ash and imperm shaft some lines to having nibiru protection
My explanation in the OCG keeping Maxx C in their format: Sure, they may hate it, but Pet Deckers/Casuals exist that buy the cards for cheaper compared to the TCG, and is mostly the players (main target consumers) in the OCGsphere. They can't ban a card that pseudo-balances the game by being present in most decks. (And is a reason why most of their banlist hits are just consistency hits, until the card just come and go fully on it's intended run) TCG players, with the 'Maxx "C" bad' mentality, where the format and banlist only follows business decisions in card releases and the big secondary market, can't seem to follow that explanation. Btw there's a Yu-Gi-Oh spinoff manga chapter that tackles the Maxx "C" challenge and handles it nicely.
Honestly, imo there's two erratas that could... at least make Maxx C less awful to play against. -"You can only activate this effect if you control no other cards" Or -"You cannot activate other card effects the turn you activate this card" Simple, and they'd both fix the problem of somebody dropping the roach on you when you're going second after they already built their board
Getting hit with Maxx C after watching your opponent form a Board full of negates is like the punchline to a cruel joke.
I'll qoute a master of the arts of Master Duel and Yugioh as a whole known for his gaming skill and dominance over the Burn- Yeah is Farfa:
"Oh is it finally my turn!? I watched three daily dose of internet videos all for me to just what? Normal Summon get negated! Activate A- OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! AAUUUUUGGGHHHHH!!!! THIS GAME!!!!"
In Summary Maxx C is just awful.
The worst feeling. when you are actualy having a great hand and are trying to see the line and your opponent just say draw phase maxx c and you just like... great, i wasted 10 minutes for nothing while my opponent probably edge him self while performing his combo
For modern Yugioh, the card really should've had some kind of "if you control no cards" clause to prevent exactly this from happening. It invalidates the one thing it's supposedly trying to do, which is help Player 2 catch up after Player 1's hyper combo
@@Aigis31 personally i think maxx c should be split into 2 effects that both works the same with drawing cards if opponent special summons but differ in how they work; 1 effect has a "if you control no cards" clause to even activate while the other can only be activate if you control 1 or more cards but you only get to draw if the opponent controls more cards then you do when they special summon a monster and this is so various boards with cards on field can still use maxx c even but with a drawback
That's why I always surrendered. Then eventually I just got tired of seeing that lame card and now auto scoop on sight. Life is too short and I only play this game for fun
I think Nibiru is a more fair version of what Maxx c does.
It punishes wombo combo decks but also gives weaker decks a way to play it safe.
except most meta combo deks dont really care about nibiru
Nib is useless against most meta decks because they can get to a generic negate like Barone under 4 summons or the combo line just plays through nib making a reasonably good board.
this was truer at nib's release, but now any combo deck worth its salt puts up Baronne or an equivalent negate by summon 5, or they can still play through and make a passable board. Now, nib is alright into combo, but totally hamstrings some midrange decks, just like the roach.
I do agree though that it is a lot fairer than the roach. I still want the lil bastard banned but am open to a replacement that actually does what casuals and roach backers say it does. A free upstart at minimum just for the opponent playing the game while still scaling is just insane
Who cares about fair we are playing a grown man’s shadow game, anything goes! 😎
There's also a spell card I wish was a hand trap that draws you cards every time your opponent draws a card.
Called "share the ride" quick play spell
The nightmare scenario is when someone sets up a board and you start trying to break it and they bust out Maxx C. There are few things less fair in this world than being tasked with breaking a board while your opponent is drawing more hand traps to fuck you over. There's very little you could do to balance it other than to make it so that Maxx C can only be activated if you haven't used a card effect and that once it resolves no card effects can be used until the end of the turn.
thats actually a sweet idea, if they take the maxx c challenge at least they cant keep impermanence and ashing you lol, or maybe it can say draw up to 3 cards
that literally makes it useless lol
@@bigbangattack97 Oh no! I don't get to draw my entire deck while also stopping my opponent from setting up his board.
@@bigbangattack97Special summoning is the game's main mechanic and drawing is the most universally powerful effect in the game. There's no situation in which a card like Maxx C should exist without heavy restriction. And before you say it, rewriting the text to read "you only win if you draw this going second" isn't a solution
I would love this change, then my special summon 9000 times.dek cant be punished by nibiru or droll. Punish/Shit on my opponents lyfe for using maxx c
OCG Players: "Maxx C is to keep crazy combo decks in check"
TCG Players: "That's what the banlist is for"
I kept hearing "in check" forever now. That word means nothing. Ban the roach already
@@McBobXIt’s already banned in the TCG because TCG players don’t know how to play around it.
@McBobX by that logic we should ban decks that can build a full board of negates
@@kimjung-un8204No need for that, just hit them so they can't put up a negate before their 5th summon, or are able to play through 2-3 hand traps. Just make them high risk-high reward decks, instead of little risk-high reward that they are now
@@arjanzweers6542 then those decks will get replaced by another broken combo. You'll be in the same cycle of broken combo decks. So u either nerf every deck or keep 1 card in that you'll not have in every hand
Anti-Maxx "C" is like the wet dream of every Dark World player lol
I main dark world and I once won by making them draw half their deck with their max C and then use card destruction 😂 but joke aside I hate max C from all my heart as a dark world player 🥲
I love seeing maxx c as a dark world player. More often than not I manage to deck them out
One thing I only want from maxx C as an ocg player.
It can only active if you control no card.
Because if you maxx c on first turn you can at least play around but the worst part is you go second on establish board + maxx c.
The whole Maxx C countering combo always baffled me. Midrage decks tended to suffer more due to the card, and a combo deck is able to set up their board and drop a maxx c on top of it. Another thing to note it that Maxx C forces combo decks to grow even more degenerate. So they look to lock you out from using any of the 12 cards you're drawing off of maxx c more than a board of one for one interactions. It pushes the extremes of the game further
100%
who needs 5 negates when you can just gimmick puppet lock someone?
Midrange deck like solfachord can summon ariseheart+grandsolfachoed coolia in 4 summon(ocg doesn't ban ariseheart), so draw the out i quess.
i don't play handtraps in this type of deck because solfachord or pendulum are always all in or bust Deck including maxx c, and rely on either i lose immediately or winning instantly. This is how i play in ocg and master duel, let's say im playing Vaylantz going first and my opponent maxx c me, good luck with your draw because i will still summon fossil and hope you draw the out, which then i lose instantly if you did draw the out for secret village and fossil lock.
I can't really play a type of deck when im playing in edopro tcg, because most of them are banned for no reason.
Card draw, especially slow card draw that either happens over multiple turns or at the end of a turn after you combo off, tends to benefit mid range decks a lot more than combo. Combo decks don't really work on longer horizons, being able to draw into something that gives you a better play the next turn isn't particularly relevant but in something like swordsoul drawing taia off of chixao can be very good, since you might have to play into a bit of a board turn 3 and that gives you more options then.
Combo is a bit more likely to punish you for giving them an extra draw off of maxx c and not set up a board, but its not like mid range can't capitalize on weak boards just as well. Mid range ok the other hand is somewhat likely to be able to win even through a turn skip, since the decks tend to be tailored for a longer time frame.
@@shawnjavery currently master duel have an event without maxx c in synchro and link
Sky striker sweep the floor with a literal and im not joking here, 92% win rate, some deck like striker and tenpai mahjong dragon are designed around maxx c and floodgate existing we have two tops in ocg in a quite moderate tournament 50 players last week, they don't play maxx c they play straight floodgates like kaiser and others.
basically you have to pick two side deck options, countering blind 2nd deck that utilize floodgates or go straight countering combo deck with lava golem etc, maxx c absolutely useless against tenpai dragon because once they get one battle phase there's no another turn.
Let's say sky striker and mahjong dragon, they are more than happy to sit on ticabo or kaiser colloseum and you shuffling your hand in frustration, tenpai will straight up murder you in their turn.
Forcing them going 2nd? BOY, tenpai dragon otk through literally a prosperity active like wtf.
I feel like the biggest reason for the insane power creep in recent years is because of maxx c. The japanese developers of the game have to account for the card everytime they develop new cards
honestly i just feel like they ignore it and don't worry about the consequences
@@MonkeyFightTCGThere's a reason we have more nib proof decks now. A deck designed to play around Maxx C will play around Nibiru easily.
Maxx C isn't a card that exists in a vacuum. The more powercreep that gets introduced to Yugioh, the stronger Maxx C gets. Its better to see it banned sooner than later. In the era of things like Branded Fusion, or Original Sinful Spoils - Snake Eye, etc... it doesn't make sense to make strong decks even stronger with it.
In the absence of "mak[ing] strong decks even stronger", you have broken decks with no counter play other than using the same tired broken decks. Maxx C enables SOME variance to deck building, which if nonexistent, feeds into more and more people quitting the game.
@@Truest-Repairman Maxx C just makes everyone fill their deck space with copies of Ash Blossom, Called by the Grave, Crossout Designator, etc... before they decide what deck they want to play so they do not lose to it. That's the opposite of variance.
@@CronoEpsilon I mean, I disagree for a lot of reasons, but I'm too tired to get into all of them, so just answer this, do you not need those hand traps anyway? Maxx C is banned in the TCG, and MOST good players main deck all of those.
@@Truest-Repairman well, usage of hand traps like Ash Blossom, Droll & Lock Bird, etc... tend to decrease and increase depending on what the format looks like and what is demanded of you. Maxx C is a card that, unless banned, sticks around regardless due to how busted it is.
I agree that deck design nowadays can get pretty outrageous, but having Maxx C as "check" to that clearly doesn't work. That's what the banlist is for.
@@CronoEpsilon You can't attempt to speak sensibly and end with nonsense, then it just nullifies everything you said before it. Like, bro, you used Maxx C on me, then Droll and Lock Birded yourself. "That's what the ban list is for"? You HAVE to know that's an idiotic notion. I assume you haven't been playing long enough, so let me spell it out for you. Konami will not ban cards upon release, so it's fundamentally the case that there's at least one broken mechanic live at any given time, and this has basically always been true. Beyond that, most of the time, cards don't even end up on the ban list until after new cards come out, which themselves are ban worthy. It's an endless cycle that's existed for at least 15 years now. The ban list has not ever worked in the way you're describing it, and it's incredibly naïve to think that it ever will.
I need you to understand that I don't mean to be toxic to you, I just strongly disagree with what you said.
One thing that doesn't seem to get talked about much is how maxx c affects the development of the game itself. Since maxx c is legal in the ocg, and cards are first designed for the ocg in mind, there's a very good chance (this is speculation i don't know this for certain) that when combo archetypes are designed they are designed in a way to try and handle maxx c. This in effect has at least the potential to increase the power ceiling of a deck. Either by making it so the deck can make power plays with fewer summons or make it so you can take the challenge and still win. Thus we see an increase in either the outright power level of combo pieces or we see decks that focus on generating floodgates on legs. I would bet the power creep would be at least a lot more contained if not for maxx c being legal in the ocg. We've seen so many decks become tier 0 and borderline tier 0 in the tcg when they where just tier 1 in the ocg. This isn't to say we should unban maxx c in the tcg to solve the issue, but there is something problematic with cards being designed for a completely different format thus requiring the tcg to compensate with the banlist (an imperfect solution but at least its something).
Honestly I've believed for a long time now that having the tcg and the ocg separate is a big issue for the game on a design level. It allowed Konami to also rarity bump cards that are known to be very strong because they've been thoroughly playtested for 3 months before being released here. The game would be in a much better state overall if the tcg and ocg got sets released at the same time, had the same banlist, and always had all the same rulings (the 2020 update helped standardize for the most part). The problem is that they've been separate for so long now it may be difficult to make things equal without making the player base of one of (or both of) the regions upset. Banning maxx C may not be something everyone in the OCG would support but may be healthier for the game overall for both regions moving forward without engaging in more drastic changes. Thank you for coming to my TED talk have a great day!
I always said that the solution to the Banlist Issues (because in the earlier years of the game, there was only one Banlist shared by both Formats, but this was causing issues specially in the OCG side since the TCG side was holding them back) should not have been making 2 Banlists, but to actually allow the TCG to catch up with the OCG and then start relasing the sets Worldwide. That was common sense
Of course, the decision was made before Maxx "C" was even a thing
@@alpha34098 I remember the banlist split and short term it was a good solution but I did fear the long term effects it would have on the game even then. It didn't solve the underlying issue of cards being designed for what is essentially a different game. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts
Nothing better shows this than how Super Heavy Samurai was handled in the OCG vs the TCG. In the OCG the deck was around for a good amount of time, more than a couple months while in the TCG it got hit on the banlist after 2 weeks. So the entire card philosophy in the OCG allowing maxx c exists helps facilitate decks like SHS and Snake Eyes coming into existence, while the TCG gets the products later and has to handle the aftermath.
@@mikewilson3346 Don't remind me of that.
Scarecrow's Ban was one of the most terribly implemented in TCG's recent history. Not just because because of the piece that was banned in that moment (everybody was expecting Soulbreaker Armor being Banned to ensure fair play by getting rid of the FTK, not Scarecrow) but also the timing of the Ban (2 Weeks is not enough time to measure a deck's Perfomance specially when you consider that SHS is also a Pendulum Deck and the most dominant Deck is one that is Anti-Pendulum). If this Ban happened in the September 2023 Banlist, people would've tolerated the Ban better (or not since Kashtira would have still have made the Deck almost impossible to play)
The separation of formats/different banlists/rarity bumps/card quality being tissue in tcg but decently durable in ocg is, in my eyes, revenge for USA dropping 2 nukes on Japan.
The OCG is allergic to banning too many cards because the Pokemon TCG almost died when set rotation was introduced and japanese players were told their old cards weren't legal for standard play anymore, this gave YGO a massive bump in popularity as players migrated to the game.
When did pokemon tcg switch to set rotation i cant seem to find anything
The problem with Maxx “C” is that huge sections of the modern game were and continue to be developed assuming it’s still legal at three copies. Its presence was an incorporated concern of card design that contributed directly to accelerating modern power creep. Now, every deck either was built around it, or built around other decks built around it.
As a retired OCG player, I think TCG players tend to overvalue draws and it's part of the reason why OCG players don't consider it as big as a deal.
Relevant side tangent: Roughly 10 years ago, Upstart Goblin took off in popularity in the TCG, nearly every deck ran 3 copies of the card, and I remember hearing the phrase "37 card deck" thrown around at the time. And yet, it never caught on the OCG, sure there were a few who experimented with it but overall it just didn't hit off as much as it did in the TCG. And I think it's because the OCG players don't value the extra draw as much as the TCG did.
This next part is anecdotal, so take with a grain of salt. But from what I observed when I was playing in OCG locals and regionals, OCG players are more willing to take the maxx c challenge. And if you ask them why, most will say that it doesn't matter if the opponent draws 4+ cards, if none of the draws can break the board then those draws are meaningless.
I still remember having discussions over Upstart Goblin before it became popular. We knew the card was extremely powerful as a generic draw but at the time we could only justify playing it in very aggressive decks since the game was more grindier, trying to out-value your opponent over a few turns with good trades and resource loops so I guess we didn't see a single card draw as explosive as running an extra staple, starter or extender and maybe also put too much value on Lifepoints since we were so focused on finding lethal each turn. Now I think we'd all run 3 copies of it much like Solemn Judgment.
based take from you and your fellow ocg players. The tcg land just really dislikes the saccy maxx c after making the unbreakable board play, but in reality it really doesn't happen often enough to warrant a ban on the roach. As many others have stated, it's a tool to be utilized and played around like any other handtrap
@@lordbored7006 Playing the Max C mini game is not a healthy way to play YGH.
That's sounds like a recipe for losing every game you play vs Maxx. Unless it is tier 0 vs a tier 3 deck that doesn't sound like a challenge that sounds like a suicide that before factoring drawing more hand traps
@@robertterrell7057 If the opp makes a tough to break board and drops a maxx c, if you play through it despite the maxx c, then you might win because the opponent didn't draw anything that can help break your own board.
If you don't play through it, then you're just giving up and guaranteeing a lost.
Imagine blind Maxx C’ing someone and they’re playing Floo + got shifter in hand.
As a Floo player I deal with this a lot surprisingly
"Number 86: Rummanyaminyan" DESTROYED me 💀
As an OCG player, many of us misunderstand about TCG players. They often tells "ew TCG players only want to summon their whole deck and that's reasoning behind banning Maxx C. banning Maxx C = full combo deck meta!". I wish there were more communications between OCG players and TCG players talking about their POV.
I would love for a larger discussion on the tcg vs ocg mindset. Unfortunately the language barrier is very hard to get past. Plus a ton of creators just don't have intrest in doing crossovers.
*opponent resolve anti-maxx c*
*laughs while playing danger darkworld*
Watching the 1 still legal copy of Maxx C sack game 3 of Nationals on stage in 2017 first hand... proved to me right then the problem and why we'd lose it forever
Maxx "C" at one was so frustrating due to how insanely luck based it was. Maxx "C" either has to be banned or at 3. preferably banned.
@@MonkeyFightTCG i'd argue it's still sacky at 3, when a single card controls the tempo of the full game.
There's never a time when "of course you have maxx C" isn't expressed haha
I know i already posted a comment, but i wanna add to the Maxx "C" canundrum.
Theres a cool trap card called backup team, which says "Draw cards equal to the cards your opponent control, and then put carda on the bottom of the deck equal the number your draw. Essencially a Mulligan.
WHAT if maxx c had a mulligan effect?
Discard it, draw cards for each special summon, then shuffle back in the endphase to the deck equal to the number draw?
I think its a great option!
Dig into your 1-offs, your go 2nd cards, specific pieces to outplay the board. You can still use handtraps, but you end with a lower hand size.
It can even reset garnets! I think this could be a cool idea for a good card going 2 and decent goung 1st.
Turning Maxx "C" into a Mulligan style of card which can only work going second (because lets be realistic, no one really wants to Mulligan going first since they would be in disadvantage, i do know that from experience as a MTG Player/Connoisseur)? That's a good idea! Nice Thinking!
I like this
Maybe if it made you banish the cards as you drew them, it'd be more fair. You still get the mulligan and a chance to draw most of your deck, but then you have to choose between maintaining turn 1 interaction or preserving your combo pieces for the crackback. An effect as powerful as Maxx C's should carry some risk aside from turning on Talents.
@@Neon-yj9xw That's not a good idea if you want to keep Maxx "C" as an Side Deck staple for going second and what we need is to limit its use by Going First Players after the made their combo
There's only 4 decks that do work with Banished card and of those, only 2 of them work completely (D.D. and Gren Maju) and 2 do so partially (Floowanderezze with the Level 1s and Kashtira with Thesis, Overlap and Big Bang). Everything else will never benefit of your errata. And for that, just keep it banned in the TCG
I think giving it like -1 from the mulligan can give it a little edge.
Maxx c only need a certain clause to make it way healthier, which is " you can activate this card when your opp control more card in the field than you do" that way we can avoid maxx c most toxic feature :
Being used after having estabilished board.
This needs more views, this video is far more in depth than 90 percent of the discourse regarding maxx c which boils down to wahh I don’t like it
Thanks, that means a lot to hear!
Maxx C New effect:
While you control no card(s) on the field, if your opponent special summons a monster,(Quick effect) you discard this card to draw 1 card each time your opponent special summon a monter(s) until end of this turn. You can not activate the effects of cards in hand for the rest of this turn.
This is an interesting way to do it and does solve the problem of maxx c going first, but its still very overpowered going second. There's technically more room to play around it too.
I think maxx c would still see insane usage but maybe more as a side deck card. It's hard to say.
It'd still be a turn skip handtrap which is why I don't think I can agree with this sure it's only for the going first player but it creates non games which is something I'd rather have Yu-Gi-Oh move away from.
Still not balanced. This one is better.
Maxx-"C"
During your opponent's turn (quick effect): You can send this card from your hand to your GY; for the rest of this turn, each time your opponent special summons a monster(s), draw 1 card. You can draw a maximum of 2 cards with this effect. You must control no cards on your field to activate and resolve this effect.
@@dominickangelo4319 thats trash for going 2nd. it should be like this:
(Quick Effect): If you control no cards you can discard this card to your GY; for the rest of this turn, each time your opponent Special Summons a monster(s), draw 1 card. During the End Phase of the turn you activated this effect: Shuffle cards from your hand into your Deck equal to the amount of Special Summoned monsters your opponent controls but no more than the amount of cards that would cause you to have less than 7 cards in your hand except if your opponent controls only 1 monster, if they do, then shuffle cards from your hand into your Deck until you have 6 cards left in your hand.
This allows me to draw into potential handtraps to interact with their plays and this doesnt make opponent skip the turn, as they know that at the end of the turn you will just have 6 to 7 cards in your hand in total. This also allows the goign 2nd player to stack his hand with cards they want to keep, giving them easier time playing 2nd. And this also prevents opponent from using the card going 1st then dropping it on your opponent after establishing a board. It solves all problems.
Maxx C being banned in one format vs the other is worst of both worlds. Cuz it will be harder to release new products without unintended consequences.
Maxx C was designed for a different card game that no longer exists, where you had the option to not totaly combo off and not lose instantly for it. And those turns where players would combo off were often OTKs on that very turn rather than a first turn play meaning the card advantage you got from the roach might not actualy help you, especially with hand traps being less of a thing.
The idea that Maxx C keeps combo decks in check in just plain fallacious. Those combo decks don't go away because of it as we have seen. They run Maxx C and the outs like Called and Ash just as any other deck does. And the decks that aren't hard oppressed by Maxx C are not just those huge combo decks. With a few specific exceptions decks these days need a decent few to set something up that doesn't leave them a total sitting duck.
Maybe if Konami gave more power to decks that tribute summon this wouldn't be a problem
Monarchs and floowandereeze were great but unfortunately just too toxic to play against for most players
@@MonkeyFightTCG yeah the inherent downsides of tributing basically force designers to make tribute based decks like monarchs, true draco, and floowandereeze to cheat around the mechanic and rely on toxic and overpowered effects to justify the investment.
They've tried that with stuff like monarchs, True Draco and even floo.
The issue is to offset the downsides you have to absolutely load them with effects that are warping around it to where you loop back to the one sided game issue.
If Special Summoning a bunch of times in a single turn wasnt so fixated in modern deck philosophy and the powercreed wouldn't just make it worse with combos and endless Special Summons, Maxx C wouldn't even be at the top position it is right now.
Im not even a Yugiboomer and I like Combos to a certain extend, but I feel like the prominece Maxx C has, has a lot of people forget that Maxx C gets worse the older the Format is and it wasn't always the most broken card in existence
I feel like Maxx C is just a symptom of how modern Yugioh is evolving into
Personally speaking, I don't have strong feelings about the cockroach, but I can definetly understand why people want it banned and how polarizing it is in modern formats (tho I play rather casually, I still play some combo decks)
effectively when are we going to be done with this "1 card brings out 20 more"
which is essentually just card advantage in anouther form, the very thing anti maxx c people claim maxx c is broken for.
like its genuinely annoying playing master duel even against the ai when i kill a monster, and suddenly its activating a effect from the graveyard that summons anouther monster, to the field that i have to deal with, likely one thatl do the same thing.
and when a opponent summons a monster, it summons a friend, they use the first monster to summon a new mosnter, that new monster then revives the old monster, ect ect,
like they may as well say "Do anything, Summon a monster from the deck"
theres NO GOD DAMN END!!!
people wonder why i defend maxx "c"? this is why, why should it be legal to summon 1 monster that one monster suddenly turns into 10-20 others, ending on a near unstoppable board all while they still hold 4 cards in hand,
but apparently me drawing even 1 card to attempt to stop/break them in response to their summon is broken and unfair card advantage? Like bro WHAT???
you just played 1 monster, and went through half youre deck, how am i getting unfair card advantage for drawing a single random extra card?
The thing that frustrates me about online Maxx C discussion is how fatalistic it is. You hear more about how "if Maxx C resolves you instantly win/lose", while I've seen OCG deck guides include Maxx C lines in them. But from talking online you'd get the impression that the card has a 100% win rate versus any deck that isn't Floo.
Given that Maxx C is in MD, you'd expect to see competitive content on it, but no. You don't get any advice on good lines for a deck that give your opponent 1/2 draws - instead, you get "I hate Maxx c". Which is valid but completely useless for getting better at the game.
i feel its just insane that konami has refused to errata or replace maxx c. its not like its a particularly hard task either. i was throwing possible erratas at a wall with a friend, and we came up almost immediately with the idea of just putting back as many cards you drew at the end phase. lets you draw into more handtraps at the risk of having to minus at the end of it all, and also allows the opponent to set up the ocg's flawed idea of a compromised board without giving the absurd advantage of like, 4-5+ cards for some decks. this also broadens the decks that arent affected too much by maxx c, since some decks are naturally resistant to common handtraps (innately or after a certain point in their combo). in fact, i think this would be a much more interesting game of testing ones luck, seeing how far you can take your board without just getting btfo by nib draw.
The reason it is so popular is because the combo wombo insanity has reached an all time fever pitch. If the combo plays weren’t all over the place, and yugioh wasn’t so powercrept, players wouldn’t be running this counter in the form of maxx “c” so often.
Konami did this to themselves. Maxx “C” is only as crazy as the meta itself. Tone down the meta and maxx “c” would see less play naturally. But they want crazy combo decks. They want the game to be played like this. So it has to be banned because there’s no going back from the insanity of special summon power creep that already exists. People would be mad if the game slowed down to old yugioh at this point, so you can’t unbake that cake.
OCG uses best of 1 at alot of their Swiss rounds in tournaments. Company won’t admit it but they won’t ban it because it keeps the illusion that you can lose die roll and still win going 2nd. Most people need to stop thinking that the card legality is about game health and not apart corporate earnings. If TCG ever gets best of 1 Swiss rounds we will get maxx c back as well.
From what I've seen on general discussion is that the separation of OCG and TCG has resulted in a power-creep runaway situation in the TCG because of the way cards are designed in the OCG first where Maxx C is much more widely-accepted. So thus the tolerably-powerful OCG cards become overbearing once they reach the international TCG format, and because Yu-Gi-Oh uses a banlist instead of set-based rotations like other TCG's e.g. Pokemon, older cards don't come-and-go so problem cards are at the whims of the banlist outside of the rare situation of a nerfing errata.
Divergence of rulesets in my opinion harms more games than it helps since even if the core elements are the same, then discourse over the competitive scene will become muddied due to how differently the game is played between regions, particularly when it's a game that gets new content on a regular basis and especially when that content's release window is staggered between regional formats.
Who the fuck has fun activating Maxx C on their opponent?? Ive never enjoyed a single match where the card had been used, no matter if I win or lose, I hate using it and hate playing against it and I cannot understand how you can enjoy using it against your opponent
Duelist Alliance was the tipping point. Vanity’s Emptiness also skyrocketed in power because of that power creep.
Konami really went 'What if we gave new decks the swarming power of Blackwings... but also if you remove their monsters they just get even more value!'
I dont care what anybody says they need to ban maxx c in master duel i hate that card i freaking hate having to deal with a maxx C 90% of my games absolutely ridiculous.
I still feel that the best reasons for banning the card are quite simple:
1. Card drawing is arguably the most powerful effect in a game with no resource system.
2. Special summoning at least 3 or four times is done by almost every deck in the game.
In a game that has every generic draw spell either banned, limited, or heavily restricted such a powerful generic draw effect has to go.
If you play around Nibiru and only summon 4 times, 1 of them being your normal summon, your opponent draws 3 cards from Maxx C. And that amount of Special Summon was deemed as a healthy amount based on Nibiru's design.
@@dudono1744the difference between nib and maxx is that if you play around nib they get nothing, and have a dead card in their hand next turn. if you "play around" maxx c, you either forfeit your turn or give them a better hand than they started with
comparing the two in this way is dishonest!
Maxx C essentially is a quick effect turnskip floodgate handtrap which only affects the opponent. In terms of the impact it hs on the gameplay experience, it's like a generic main deck rhongo which summons itself from hand as a quick effect. It's the worst floodgate in the game by far.
Then why are the best players able to play around it?
@@MonkeyFightTCG because everyone maindecks 3-6 copies of the equivalent of xyz encore/herald of the abyss or, as is the case with a select few decks, factored the ability to survive a turnskip into their gameplan.
Back when Rhongo was legal, the best players also played around it l.
Pro players will by definition find ways to work with or somewhat play around anything, but the existence of these very specific ways is in no way, shape or form a justification for the cards being legal.
My point is that if it resolves, and if you do not happen to play a specific anti-Maxx C version of a select few decks which even can be played in that way, the opponent might as well have summoned a 4 material rhongo from hand.
It's effect is as severe in terms of outcome as the most heinous, toxic and even lingering floodgates while being a generic,unconditional quick effect hand trap, which therefore makes it worse than all of them. Thus, it ought to be judged as such.
To be logically consistent, if we claim this one is fine in principle, all are and we consequently have no basis to ban any of them.
If, however, we say that the game is objectively better the less of them are in play, it ought to be banned.
@@Disappointed_Philosoraptor then why are the best players able to play around maxx "C" without specific counters and just with the generic cards in their deck. I think you're missing the entire picture here, just because you hate the card so much
@@MonkeyFightTCG I believe I did lay out my reasoning, which was not based on hate but the points I brought up.
Anyway, to answer your question "why are the best players able to play around maxx "C" without specific counters and just with the generic cards in their deck":
They aren't.
Have you looked at the deck lists for the master duel WCS 2023 for instance?
Every single deck brought to the event was
1.) part of a select group of decks which can be geared to somewhat play around maxx C or outright ignore it
2.) heavily geared around mxx C
3.) had the maximum avaliable number of counters to Maxx C in the deck (excpet the decks which do not care about maxx C resolving due to 1) and 2).
So, in short, if you pre-select which deck you choose to play based on which decks can best complete their gameplay even if the roach resolves, and then also further
tweak it to more optimally deal with the roach and then also run all the outs avaliable, you end up with a situation where all the pros can handle maxx c with just the "generic cards" in their deck.
What you're looking at though is survivorship bias. It's why looking just at the top players will give a distroted imagine of what is actually happening and lead to false conclusions.
To illustrate the pinciple at play, there's a joke:
"99% of all participants of our study answered that they enjoy filling out surveys. We conclude that 99% of the population live to answer our surveys"
The reason the "winning deck", natura Runic, won, was that it was the best at handling maxx C while maintaining a good enough power level in doing so.
Watch the entirety of Josh's stream where you got that clip from, he does state exactly that.
On the MD ladder, you can play decks which lose to maxx C if their overall powerlevel is good enough, because as long as enough other players also play decks which lose to maxx C (which is just about every compentitve deck in MD for just about the entire existence of Master duel) the losses you take will be counterbalanced with wins over a big enough sample size so long as you yourself also play Maxx C at 3.
Sorry for the super long comments btw.
The topic is too complex to tackle in just a few lines.
Did you not watch the games themselves or did you only.look at the decks lists?
You can't play around Maxx C, if you can't special summon you can't play the game. Giving your opponent free draws is not a viable strategy.
Other hand traps in the game are far more interactive, Nibiru also punishes special summoning but theres lots of interesting ways to adjust your combo if you think your opponent has it in hand. You mentioned droll in this video as not giving you a choice, but you can build your deck in such a way that you can play through droll, which is interesting and can be fun especially when you get to execute your strategy in game.
Maxx C doesn't give you any of these options, you either draw the out or pass your turn and hope for the best. It's not fun, it's not fair, it's not interactive. It's overpowered and bad for the game.
I activate danger " "'s effect x10
i activate " "of dark worlds eff x20
now i activate tt thrust and grab card dedtruction
GAME
If your deck cant play under Max c often it's a bad deck .
Maybe there shouldn’t be infinite special summons. It looks ridiculous with cards dropping and flying off the board constantly.
For real, I started playing yugioh again when masterduel came out and hadn’t played in years prior to that, seeing how much people special summoned and how fast they got boss monsters on the field was baffling
21:47 "Playing around Maxx "C"" Dude, there is no playing around Maxx C...
but there objectively is, as shown in the video. You might not like that it's a skill issue but there's a reason that top players (and most players in general) can sometimes handle the card in competitive games. you can go into a floodgate, go into a secondary low special summon play, you can play a deck that doesn't rely on special summons, you can build counters into your decks, you can chain special summons to maxx "C" and you can use it to deck them out in very niche case.
@@MonkeyFightTCG There might also be a small skill issue, that is right, but all your playarounds come down to the deck choice. (Floodgates, you have to play them in the first place - secondary low SS play, not every deck can do that - play a deck without special summons (aka Floo exactly), LITERALLY deck choice - play counters, you have to draw them (shouldn't be reliant on drawing specific non engine) - Chain to the roach, few decks can do that - deckout, you already said: niche case)
I disagree that one single card should rule out what feels like half of the otherwise viable deck choices; usually there is no REAL playaround aside from drawing the out or hard drawing interruptions to defend yourself from an OTK
You might also note that the overall winrate of Maxx C in the World Championship is lowered by the fact that the winning team specifically played decks that are good into maxx C (Runick Naturia, Tear, Labrynth), Joshua himself explained that.
Please don't misunderstand my comment with hate, I really liked you video, I just disagree that there are generic playarounds for Maxx C that every or at least most meta viable decks can use.😅
If I were to give Maxx "C" an Errata to make it more fair it would be like this:
You can only activate the following Effect if you control no monsters:
( Quick Effect ) You can discard this card, draw cards equal to the amount of times ypur opponent special summoned monsters at the time of this cards activation.
You can only use this Effect of Maxx "C" once per turn.
That way you're opponent cant set up like 5+ Negates and additionial interruptions and THEN just Maxx C during draw for an additional kick to the nuts.
Also the revised Draw Effect makes it take more skill to use, since unless the Deck doesent set up an Negate at all, you have decide when its the best moment to use it.
Literally the reason I quit master duel.
Pendulums can’t really play Handtraps so everytime someone maxx c’s me and I don’t have an out, I kinda auto lose
sounds like bad deck choice
They’re my favorite deck, why would I play Master Duel if I can play my favorite deck in other ways. Sure I got to master rank playing other decks but I don’t like those decks
@@cydra_infinity1423pendulum especially Vaylantz is the only deck in the game that can full lock my opponent with fossil and village
This interaction is straightforward banned in your format because you don't have access electrum, you have a literal wincon here in ocg and master duel, and the reasons why Vaylantz is the most successful pendulum deck past 3 years.
If your pendulum deck can't set up and deal with a single hand trap it's not a good deck .
i play pend magician but made room for called by/ash just because of maxx c, though dropping a few copies of some monsters causing bricking a few times
I agree with the end point very much of wanting a more balanced Maxx "C" as I feel like some tool to keep more aggro decks is needed in this game. Maybe having it work similar to Niburu in which you can only activate it after your opponent commits to X amount of special summons as a way to allow for those ftks decks to suffer the worst while other decks can play around giving your opponent 1~2 draws
This would still be a buff to ftk decks if the most important effect that needs to resolve is the 1st few effects(like isolde for example)
And ofc being an FTK deck they dont give shit about the opponent drawing 30 cards since they wont be able to use those cards due to the FTK deck… ftking the opponent.
I think an aspect that's somewhat underdiscussed in this video is the shift in how Crossout is played in TCG and OCG, because Crossout is such an interesting card that interacts with how Maxx "C" as a core of OCG/MD
Mainly, how OCG decided to limit Crossout, but how it's mostly fine in TCG, it's one of those things I'd like to research the data myself if I had the time, but how staples are a bit more homogenous in OCG/MD has affected Crossout's playability in a very interesting way, mainly because Crossout is a card that is so heavily affected by the cards around it
Mostly spitballing, but that's a topic I'd like to see explored
This is a fair point. I had though about it a bit and was at one point going to compare direct deck lists from the ocg and tcg featuring a crossout package. It didn't make the final cut since I felt I didn't have enough to say about it. Glad to see someone else had similar thoughts
I appreciate your thoroughness in this, it's nice to see some real analysis to highlight the card's virtues and problems. For me, I just look at it from a game design perspective and to that end your video is very valiuable. My personal perspective is that I don't like neither playing the card nor having it played against me, in either scenario it gives me a feeling of arbitrariness that sort of taints the outcome of the game for me, and reduces the interesting complexity in a similar way to playing a card stating "flip a coin, heads you win, tails you lose" (hyperbole notwithstanding). In earnest though, it's not so much Maxx C that bothers me, it's the game as a whole, the monetization and design factors cementing cards like this to be a part of Yugioh. It's why even if I like to watch videos about Yugioh, I don't actively play it or participate in it beyond that.
Also your Anti-Maxx C would be the greatest gift my Dark World Deck could ever ask for.
This is an amazing Doc. Great job new subscriber, I love Maxx C and wish we can just deal in the TCG like our OCG Chad brethren.
Neat video, tbis might be one of my favorite essays pf yours!
The real problem is the game turned into long chains of special summons. Maxx C just punishes that.
This is not the problem, the problem is when it ends on 4+ negates.
....You forgot that those said decks are designed with maxx c in mind as the thing to balancing it.
not all special summons are made equally. if i make a live twin board and my opponent makes a mannadium board we summon about the same amount of times but you will never complain about the LT setup as much as mannadium bc LT doesn't make 4 generic negates even if you play it with spright or whatever other package you want to run
special summons aren't the problem it's the boards they create and the access to generically powerful options they give
I feel like the shot at Hardleg was a little uncalled for. Bro just fuckin hates the bug, as most of us do lol. At least he's trying to do something about it.
with over 10,000+ posts about maxx "C" it's perfectly valid to comment on.
Nah, I mean HardLeg has been around for years and put out 50,000 non Maxx C related YGO content most of which have been bigger hits then you could have ever done. But go on, ,We are not here to bash each other. Just display the facts and statistics without dismantling someone else's credentials and character.
@@MonkeyFightTCG 10,000? Seriously? Lol.
I am both a MD and OCG player, and I think your video is on point! Good job. I personally hate this card because Maxx C limited our deck choice very much. Thanks to Maxx C, every OCG format is a handtrap format as handtraps have so much synergy with it. Rendering decks with little non-engine room useless unless they go for stun or ftk. This is why combo Runick was never been found in the OCG.
I think a VERY frustrating aspect of Maxx "C" is Ash Blossom, and the fact that you still have to run it even in formats where it's a bad card because it stops the autowin card. A good example of that is right now with Snake Eye, Ashing Snake Eye is almost always actively detrimental to you as any advantage you might've gained from doing so is immediately cancelled out by giving your opponent a Hiita target, and what's worse is that Snake Eye can wield Maxx "C" to FORCE that Hiita target out of you.
Maxx "C" is and always will be an unhealthy card but it is particularly toxic in the current upcoming metagame.
well the data shows that you don't always have to run ash blossom to counter maxx "C" and it's format dependent. However you're right that it does boost the usage of ash blossom and ash blossom can be toxic in certain metagames.
@@MonkeyFightTCGash is only toxic and strong against bad and weak decks .
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and came up with a theory. One of the reasons Maxx C remains legal in the OCG and MD is because it provides an easy foundation for Konami's banlist decisions. If a powerful and meta relevant deck can play through it, that deck needs hit. It is why Branded and Kash were hit so hard whereas Snake Eye not so much (besides money of course). Tenpai SS a lot, but their field spell and battle phase oriented style limits Maxx C impact, so their field spell got hit. I believe for the OCG and MD, the 3 foundations for their F&L decisions are money, degeneracy, and Maxx C.
I feel like [in the OCG], because Maxx "C" isn't banned; OCG can continue to create insanely proven cards because "Maxx "C" will keep the deck in check".
What happens as a result of that is that when those cards come to TCG, it just becomes significantly more toxic.
Not really super heavy Samurai for example isn't really stopped by Max c .
"Only other hand trap at the time" Kuriboh: Am I a joke to you?
Yes, it is a joke. But D.D. Crow isn't.
there's also droll & lock bird which was legal but not good at the time
Kuriboh was really the original hand trap in the game
From what I see, Maxx C is more impactful when resolved going first than second.
Well the data leans toward it having a larger impact being used going second. But maxx c being used going first definitely is more frustrating and toxic.
Thats cuz theres a battle phase going 2nd so that decks can essentially do what an FTK deck can do going first(an FTK deck can win going first even if maxx c is used against it since it doesnt need the battle phase)
I'm gonna be pretty honest, I despise handtraps but I really like the design of Imperm so for me every single handtrap should have at least the Gamma restrictions
Don’t care want Maxx C at 3 😢
💯👏 Great video as always!🎴🎖️📺🏴☠️
you're not attacking the card enough much in this video
Damn, I was being fair. Are you just that angry that you want everyone to blindly hate it?
@@MonkeyFightTCG nah i'm just making a joke here
THANK YOU for this video. Everyone who defends this card is delulu and I need it to stop
same can be said about those who irrationally hate on the card with no feedback besides "Just ban it"
when it exists for a reason, it doesnt exist in a vacuum, maybe try tackling that issue, or perhaps its because its a subject you know you cant win?
I’ve been tinkering with the idea of how to balance Maxx “C”. My thoughts of balancing it, before finishing the video, is to lock you out of using the effects of all monsters nor being able to special summon monsters whose original type is not Insect for the rest of the duel. Is it extreme? Yes. But when you have the ability to go +10 or greater, especially with how some decks such as Lab can start their combos on your turn I thing it ia a fair trade.
22:15 well, your wish has been granted, Konami is trying to desing a replacement
Maxx C is a reckoning
I'm more casual observer than a competitive player, so bear with me.
I don't like the argument that "It creates an unfair advantage", because it would open the floodgates to the idea that, by that same logic, measures should not be taken to nerf decks that run mostly 'Dark' attribute monsters? After all, the 'Dark' attribute is the one most supported, generating an unfair advantage for decks that run mostly 'Dark' attribute monsters, over decks that run mostly, for example, 'Wind', 'Earth', 'Water' and 'Fire' attribute monsters. Shouldn't they, therefore, also nerf 'Dragon' Type monsters? After all, Dragon is the most supported card type in the game, so a player who plays with a deck mostly made up of dragons would have an unfair advantage against players who play with decks mostly made up of fish or sea snake type monsters, right?
I had a thought to combine maxx C with pot of greed.
Durning either players turn: If the opponent has Special Summoned more than twice (Quick Effect) You can discard this card; draw two card.
You can only use this card once per turn.
I can't believe it was printed like that. What an insane card.
Knawing "C"
During either players turn: You can send this card from your hand to the graveyard; this turn, each time your opponent Special Summons a monster(s), immediately draw 2 cards and choose to discard 2 cards. If you do not discard a card or your opponent summons a monster(s) from the extra deck, this effect ends.
You can only use 1 "Knawing" C"" per turn.
Damn TeleDAD being the cutoff for old school yugioh makes me feel extra old
This is me but with hat format and shaddoll format
Speaking as a player that settled in rush duel links, a heavy "luck and single cards flip entire games on their head out of nowhere", the yugioh card game and master duel could really use new game rules to combat the ever evolving power creep and speed of the game.
Yes I'm suggesting things like having altered versions of maxxC, ash, nibiru, drnm,shifter etc as new mechanics of the game rather than individual cards that need to be in your hand at right time.
ED handtraps would work (with a shared hard once per turn among them all).
Maxx “C” when I was playing around 2013/2014 wasn’t a bad card. It put you in check but it wasn’t horrible. You could still play. Now today, if you see Maxx “C” you auto lose because they either draw more hand traps or get multiple extenders to otk you. Every single Yugioh deck has a Combo to otk today with either 1 or 2 cards. That wasn’t the case 10 years ago.
I actually stopped playing master duel. Once you get to the higher ranks in master duels, getting maxc'd 5 games in a row.... sucks man.
Or what about when u take ur pet deck as high as u can climb on the ranks. U lose the coin toss, go second againts a meta deck, making the climb to break the meta decks board, Just to get maxc'd on the 2nd turn of the game 😊
You playing higher ranked or nah ? Cause sometimes and I mean quite a bit Max c doesn't do mutch . Against the best decks it Doesn't do mutch occasionally. If anything it's better against combo heavy lower tier decks that take forever to set up they're 40 negates .
You've kinda hit the nail in the head as far as how I feel about it and in Master Duel. It isn't exactly a healthy card but a Bo3 format can still be fun to engage with even with the roach running around as even if you do end up losing, you still have another round to look forwards too.
But unfortunately MD is a Bo1 format. It's bad enough that it's a Bo1 in the first place as I don't feel YGO was made for that, but with the roach running around it's just miserable to play sometimes. If it was Bo3, players would still be complaining but it wouldn't nearly be as unbearable as it is now.
My story with Maxx C dates back to 2011. It was that year ITalian nationals and the meta was full of X-Saber that amied to hand loop you. So I decided to main Maxx c even because it was synergistic with my deck (I was on a chaos synchron pile and Junk synchron just happen to revive Maxx C). I undertand how broken that card was when at round 1 I went against an X-Saber player. He activated boggard, chain maxx c. He asked what it does, I explained it to him, he said ok, proceed to make the full combo to handloop me without realizing that I was repleninshing any card h discarded and so he passed going -5, 1 faultroll on the field and I had 8 cards in hand.
Today, I want to see the roach banned. It doesn't give me any enjoyent winning a game because I just happen to resolve a card nor it's enjoyable watching the opponent stopping my turn just for that. Sadly I don't think it will never happen because banning Maxx C would mean that the people running the TCG knows how to balance this game better than the people in Japan.
My problem with the game was the fact that Maxx C was even necessary. Or any hand traps for that matter. The amount of combos and negates introduced, were a mistake.
I just don't like the idea of a card that creates such a wide gap between if it resolves or not. It's too much variance for a card with an effect that strong. I honestly think Yu-Gi-Oh is one of the worst designed TCGs out there, and while a lot of the game's charm does come from that; it does just sometimes suck. Maxx "c" was made to curb some of those really shitty parts of the game, but the actual outcome was like trying to use gasoline to put out a house fire.
Also best of one formats get to be incredibly frustrating for higher level play, I have said this since master duel's release and I still will with One Piece (I love the game, but tournaments being best of one can lead to variance determining a match more than skill.)
Maxxc is just an excuse for konami to continue realeasing broken decks that literalmente win you the game in 1 turn just because "it dies to maxxc"
The errata I would give Maxx "C" is so that, after it resolves, until the End Phase of the next turn, you can only use summon and use the effects of Insect Type monsters. That way, while it would still be fairly strong, it be stuck being used in Decks that mainly only use Insects, one of the worse Types in the game. But, that could be the Solidarity enjoyer in me.
I like this gimmick. it also makes me think that more decks and strategies should have unique hand traps to differentiate them
New Maxx c card idea.
You can activate this card only on your opponent turn only and only on the very first chain link, you cannot active any other card from your hand this turn and this card activation cannot negate. At the end of the turn, you can draw cards in order to equalize total combination of card in hand and the field to both player. You can only activate this card ones per duel.
Example if opponent have 5 card in hand and 10 cards in the field, and you have 5 card in hand and no card on the field, you draw 10 cards on the end of the turn.
Ultimately, I think its called "taking the Maxx C challenge" for a reason, when your opponent resolves Maxx C, you are expected to lose at that point, and playing against it is going to be a massive struggle.
The bane of every yugioh player’s existence is a card about an infestation of cockroaches…
as long as hand looping exist maxx C will live on, additionally a somple erreta can be yes you can draw cards, but must at the end of turn banish cards face down from your hand untill 5 are left.
2:47 Except that Six Samurai is one of the few decks that actually make Maxx "C" turn against you by making you deck out.
today with link yes, but it was a much different story when maxx "C" released
@@MonkeyFightTCG You forget Gateway & Mizuho+Shinai Loop, that existed ever since they were released. It's the one of the reasons Gateway got banned.
You still has much less of an end board to go into at the time, making it much harder to do
Droll is worse than maxx c
Honestly not an incorrect take
No man 😂
I used to hate maxx c. Now I’m pretty unbothered by it. Mainly because modern yugioh is already a zero sum game filled with degenerate BS cards and combos anyway that at this point I just see it yet another degenerate card in a sea of other unfair cards and strategies.
The general bs of modern yugioh has basically made me numb to even maxx c
Exactly how I feel tbh
Maxx C Is a card I consider as degenerate as the format itself. In a format like Tengu the card Is kinda ehhh, In HAT is actually a positive influence because it prevents Soul Charge pop-offs and infernity loops.
It was around Pepe when the card started to become a problem and special summoning became mandatory. Now that Furawoss got released there's no more reason to keep it around, because there's now a fairer way to keep the combo decks in check. From my part I'll straight up refuse to touch a format where Maxx C would be OP, because those are degenerate combo/OTK fests... an oddly appropiate way of describing YGO for 8-9 years at this point if you ask me.
we need Maxx "C" on the TCG
At least you are actually giving actual reason unlike someone like Hardleg Joe.
Replace it with...
UltimateC: (Quick effect) If you have no cards on field of which you are the original owner of, if your opponent has summoned two or more times, you can discard this card, draw 1 card for every summon the rest of the turn. You cannot inflict lethal damage until the end of your opponents next turn.
If your opponent activated a card in response to this card, you can return this from gy or banishment to deck, then add any 2 cards from deck to hand.
this maxx "C" seems quite a bit stronger than regular maxx "C" albeit one that can only go second. I'm mixed on this approach. I'd rather a weaker go second effect however one with an existing go first effect. something like you can banish this from your hand to draw one.
also "You cannot inflict lethal damage until the end of your opponents next turn. " is a good conditional
I love Maxx C it's a neccessary evil and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
crazy how u got 10+ likes for having the worst take on the planet,seek help.
@@FilipSlim "seek help" he says while crying about a comment with 13 likes💀💀💀
At this point, I more sick of the Maxx "C" discussions than the card itself. I get it, you don't like the card but just stop bringing it up every post/ video/ comment you make.
Personally, while I've come to accept its existence in MD, I'm not fond of it. Whether it is banned or not I'm fine either way.
It's hard not to talk about maxx-c when it's so universally playable and meta-defining. >90% play-rate is hard to just ignore unless you play either floow or stun (yay?)
I feel the card was balanced around the fact Konami didn't see special summoning becoming the main way to bring out monsters. Unfortunately for everyone in the game, that's exactly what happened & it made this card a must have.
I haven’t seen this argument yet, but I don’t see why ppl hyper focus on maxx C, when Konami intentionally constantly released busted decks
Don't worry I talk about that alot too
@@MonkeyFightTCG sorry if that came across as a criticism, I doubt that you don’t, it’s just that maybe for me in MD, not many of my duels are decided because of maxx C even if it resolves when I’m playing a rogue tier deck. This makes me believe that the real issue is the stupid cards Konami print simply for money, if Ik in 2 months Konami will make a stupidly strong deck that’s going to get power crept in another 2 months, is maxx C really my biggest problem? Because when these cards come to masterduel it’s going to be so annoying to deal with. I thought it was a really well made video though. It’s just I remember the days of tear at like not even maxx power where someone would maxx c me and I would literally draw more cards than them on their turn wile under maxx c. That’s why I’m on neither of the ban maxx C argument.
Had a game on master duel a couple days ago where I played Maxx C on his opening turn, ended up with 20 cards in my hand. Even though he had 6 Synchro’s on the field, I had half my deck in my hand, two of every option lol.
My take is that everyone is who I play runs the same generic deck and theres no creativity or skill in it like ik how to counter or think of a new strategy on a fly but when i see someone with a maxx c package it speaks i got no skill and ash blossom just bait them cause they gonna activate it on the first card they see
Most of those arguements could be made about Ash blossom except that those arguements are strawmen against Maxx C. Maxx C doesnt do anything unlike Ash. Maxx C gives you options unlike the Unfun Joyous Spring.
Ash is entirely fair though.
Even in 2018. If your deck folded to 1 ash it was ass because it folded to 1 veiler or 1 ghost ogre.
The biggest issue with maxx c is there is no drawback to including it in your deck. I like to compare it with the original banned cards and the philosophy behind it. Was there EVER a time to NOT run pot of greed? No. Maybe you could argue some niche cases in todays super fast format but even now you would see pog at 98% play rate cause why not? Maxx c hit 95% for the same reason. Theres no downside to playing it. You know how terrible it is to open nibiru against eldlich, lab, traptrix, etc? Youll never get to activate it. Or some combo decks can put up a monster negate by summon 5 anyway. So theres a downside to playing it and you have to weigh the odds and the format to including it. If heroes are even tier 0, nibiru would be a staple main deck cause it blows them up but if lab is tier 0 nibiru is forgotten. Nibiru is good card design. It is designed to keep heavy combo decks in check while control decks wont be bothered. Maxx c hits every deck besides floowandereeze. Rather its an upstart or a deck out, it will draw you cards against virtually every deck you see. Thats what makes the card truly broken. Its astounding how a competitive tournament saw a 100% play rate on a card and though "tearlament is the problem". Maxx c has survived EVERY meta it has been legal in and has outlived every deck it is suppose to "check". It can go. The game will be fine without it. Learn how to actually counter each deck and quit relying on a brain dead bug to do the heavy lifting. Every format you should be reworking your staples for the format regardless of your deck. Ash isnt always needed, called by can be left out, crossout isnt even limited in the tcg because no one plays it. Maxx c is brain dead to include with no drawbacks with way too heavy of a payoff for including it in EVERY deck from stun to combo
Yay if everyone keeps making Max C Bad videos maybe we'll be out of this hell soon!
hey, my video isn't all maxx "C" bad. it's more so maxx "C" exists and does things.
clearly i'm a maxx "c" centrist
Imo to fix this card atleast for me make it this. Make it do the same thing it does BUT added text that says " This effect can only be used when you control no cards You also cannot conduct your next battle phase" maybe that will fix it idk to be honest if that would fix it but it would help
Another reason I still haven't gotten into master duel. I don't like having to immediately add 3 C 2 graves and 3 Ash Blossom.
You forgot crossout at 1 or 2
My main issue with Maxx C is how it fruther reinforces extremes. Combo decks instead of holding back will instead play the Maxx C minigame and try to make an unbreakable board making all those cards the Maxx C user got useless. It doesn't really solve the issue but instead makes it worse.
Obviously I'm not saying it should be banned. There are whole archetypes built around Maxx C being a thing cuz that's just how the OCG is. Pretty sure that's one of the issues with the TCG. Since they banned Maxx C new additins to the game end up being pretty strong since these new additions are made by Konami with Maxx C in mind. So if you ban Maxx C a bunch of decks will just go even more insane I think.
Most good decks in the ocg are good in the tcg because playing around maxx C usually means it is very low commitment high power so you have less points to be hit at.
Maxx C getting banned means you have decks that become more fragile. Look at unchained. That thing could no do much in the ocg past fringe tops.
It hits the TCG. Yes it pops off but it also has so many points of interaction where hitting it with ash and imperm shaft some lines to having nibiru protection
My explanation in the OCG keeping Maxx C in their format:
Sure, they may hate it, but Pet Deckers/Casuals exist that buy the cards for cheaper compared to the TCG, and is mostly the players (main target consumers) in the OCGsphere. They can't ban a card that pseudo-balances the game by being present in most decks. (And is a reason why most of their banlist hits are just consistency hits, until the card just come and go fully on it's intended run)
TCG players, with the 'Maxx "C" bad' mentality, where the format and banlist only follows business decisions in card releases and the big secondary market, can't seem to follow that explanation.
Btw there's a Yu-Gi-Oh spinoff manga chapter that tackles the Maxx "C" challenge and handles it nicely.
Honestly, imo there's two erratas that could... at least make Maxx C less awful to play against.
-"You can only activate this effect if you control no other cards"
Or
-"You cannot activate other card effects the turn you activate this card"
Simple, and they'd both fix the problem of somebody dropping the roach on you when you're going second after they already built their board