Dorki busy in tgp prison, convinced on 3 charges of “bear pulling in a weekly +10” and and 2 charges of “complaining about fortified despite being functionally immortal”
Growl figuring out halfway through the podcast that the only way to counter the "always talk before Growl can talk" bit is to not stop talking once he gets a word in :chef_kiss:
I am not running the cheat death trinket from DOTI this season… I’m running my dreadplates + treemouth or anvil, and that hasn’t stopped me from doing +17’s this season (first season tanking)… like I get when your pushing top 100-250 M raid, but the toxic BS of ‘’inspect and if they not running x or y, make them feel bad’’ is the exact reason why there are so very little tanks and healers.
@@tommy4862 never said it would? I am just saying I loathe the glorification of toxicity Growl is advocating here… I don’t want to run doti for a cheat death trinket, and I can do high keys without relying on it. So why should ppl then ‘’inspect and make me feel bad’’ cause I do not use a cheat death trinket?
@@mura-moto he’s just saying the most important thing about the tank is for him to live, because many times it’s impossible to recover from tank dying. That’s why it makes more sense to play defensive instead of chasing dps. I think that’s all, people just get angry at that sometimes.
The tuning on beta is indeed crazy, and how much attention has been given to particular classes compared to others really makes some classes feel very neglected. Priest has basically gotten no changes since alpha and is stuck with so many 2 point nodes while seeing so many specs have their 2 point nodes removed.
Dratnos's comment about the first 8 hours being the most fun is a simple premise that plagues every single MMO (if not every game) period: People then begin to optimize the fun out of the game. When that starts to happen, yes you're playing the game as best you can but you're doing it by reading guides, simulating dps, etc. Unless being that tip top optimizer is your thing, and for most people it isn't, then it begins to feel like a chore rather than fun.
The funny thing is Dratnos identified what us oldheads are talking about right before Max guessed about what the friction is for the oldheads. Especially those of us who played MMOs before WoW existed. Yes, we miss the wonder of exploring and figuring things out on our own. But much more than that, we miss the game being designed with the intention of making it FUN, rather than ADDICTING.
someday the 4th poddy, dorki, will permanently join. Also i feel ya Max, my mom is the youngest of 9 from a Missouri military family. Have 22 cousins. The family gatherings are WILD
1:07:30 Back in HFC our Brewmaster would put his MoP cloak on to lower his ilvl to parse every week on mythic Archimonde farm and wouldn't take it off even the night we were carrying somebody and were wiping in phase 3 for two hours. Fun times.
I love that Max is having fun with Tarisland, but I feel he's seriously underestimating the difference in experience for people that are capable of spending large amounts of money/time VS those that cannot. It's been the primary reason that I've been unable to convince enough people to give it a try.
When the patreon question hitted i thought instantly about the yt video story of max uploading a pull when he killed a boss and then uploading another one when he wipes but does way more dmg. Hilarious
I’m a tank and I use DPS trinket on prog until I die to a tank buster. If I die then I realize I need to respect the boss tank trinks go on immediately. For example I never put tank trinkets on for igira but I did for gnarlroot. But I think tank has two jobs 1 don’t die and hold threat!
MMOs require a lot of time commitment and 99.99% of players aren’t content creators so their game time is limited. So if they are going to invest their time into another MMO they wanna make sure it’s not some here today dead tomorrow kinda thing. They aren’t playing the new stuff for views or because it’s sponsored. I feel a lot of streamers miss this.
I love Max's start of season "tier" list......I really enjoy hearing what the experts in that class/spec have to say about the class/specs I enjoy.....not really for the actual tier lost of those discussions.
Personally I wish wow wasn't as seasonal as it is. I find it silly that you can basically raid log after a month. I also thought when Dratnos said "logging into DF there's something to do" meanwhile I feel like it's the opposite because there is no system outside of raid/m+ as far as player power goes to do.
Actually wild to hear other tanks worry more about dps and not staying alive. Tbh I only grab a dpsntrinket when I know I can survive without assistance. Then it makes sense but then the not taking gore fiends or abom is absolutely wild
I think there is a very strong reason that almost every game has a progression system...any type of progression is simply fun for a lot of people. I did the first week of dragonflight grind because I was excited to play the game and having some little progression was fun to do.
I feel extremely called out by Growl's "Dratnos reading us patch notes like a bedtime story." I often leave Dratnos patch notes videos on as just something comforting to listen to
Tier lists never impact what I play. There’s classes I like to play and classes I don’t. What I like about them is it tells me how good the classes I like to play are feeling right now in Beta/PTR. It helps me either have hope or no hope at all.
"Why do people ask 'Is this the WoW killer/Better than WoW', etc...?" Answer: Because most people don't have the ability to play and invest all their free time into multiple MMOs. They take a LOT of time and energy, and if you're a working person, you're likely quite discerning about the games you choose to invest that time and energy into. MMOs are typically forever games. You often build connections and friendships in them that last lifetimes. That's typically not an investment you can let go of at the drop of a hat. Additionally, to poke at the other quandary I saw, yes WoW would probably be more fun if sims didn't exist. But eventually all games become that. Why do dps only care about dps? Because it's all anyone else cares about. It's what your healers and tanks care about, it's what you're in the raid/group to do. Maybe at the world first level you have to consider what utility classes bring and weigh that against their damage output, but that's SOLVED for us. We're not piecing together a puzzle of how to defeat the bosses because Liquid/Echo and various guides have already done that for us. At that point, everything that classes/specs CAN do is distilled down to the most essential components. Can you survive? If not, get things that make you survive (The guides will tell you what that is because some other guild's already solved it), if you can, do as much damage as possible. There ARE no other considerations to be made anymore.
One of the thing with tier lists, is, as a guy with kids and limited game time. It can be extremely helpful to get a small snapshot of the relative viability of a spec or class. Something I do not have time to play test myself. Give me a snapshot so I can make a semi educated guess on what is complete trash or not.
I played WoW since beta Vanilla. I miss my old Wrath guild because we didn't look up strats for raid, we intentionally went in blind and tried to figure everything out and we cleared Ulduar and ICC like that. I miss the old PVP model: no war mode, no resilience, no battlegrounds. I still remember what WoW was like before battlegrounds and uh we for SURE are never getting that back. Back in Beta, it seemed like every single person was RPing, It's hard to explain, but the white chat and emotes were used wayyyyyyyy more. Pre BGs is when all the Tarren Mill and STV and guild wars stuff was going on and you routinely saw raids on capitol cities by players. BGs were the first queue content. First thing that could be spammed for a currency, everything else had lockouts. Removed the need to use the open world for honor. Ushered in LFG and LFR. Everything followed the BG model after that. If you put in queue content, it is going to kill the open world, period. War Mode is the nail in the coffin. It's actually funny to me that they have a Tarren Mill brawl that is entirely inspired by a time in WoW that doesn't exist whatsoever anymore, like the chances of you having an organic 40v40 in Tarren Mill in retail right now is like 0% and people can't figure out why the open world is dead lol. And no you can't go back to Era and relive it, it doesn't exist.
"Bring back Dorki as 4th Affix" Button
Love the detail of Dorki actually turning away from the screen on the Growl card, whenever he's talking randomly.
Fronk the goat
Fronk the goat
it had me rolling when I realized that was happening Fronk is goated.
His legs are blurred/censored because Dorki doesn't wear pants holy fuck Fronk
Omg thanks for pointing that out 😂 I would have missed it
*chanting* GROWL GROWL GROWL GROWL GROWL GROWL
GROM GROM GROM GROM GROM GROM GROM
This episode made me realize I saw growls content before any of the others (except for watching wow events obviously)
Dorki's cat turning in his chair responding to the trolling was the best bit. GG Fronk
I'm just here to give fronk his flowers for making Dorki's cat turn around when he spoke
Growl should be a permanent member
A 4th member, but a permanent one
Truth
Dorki busy in tgp prison, convinced on 3 charges of “bear pulling in a weekly +10” and and 2 charges of “complaining about fortified despite being functionally immortal”
Goated comment
Tyrannical is ass, fortified is goated. Change my mind
Growl’s Dorki impression is goated. I would listen to 10 minutes of growl and dratnos going back and forth both doing Dorki voices
I love that Growl bit about how jealous he is of Ellesmere. At the same time ban Dorki for not taking Growl.
We need a Dorki vs Growl episode in which Dorki defends himself against all this tank slander.
Comments: “I’m so glad max is letting everyone talk again!”
Max taking it personally: solo yaps for the whole first 15 minutes.
Growl figuring out halfway through the podcast that the only way to counter the "always talk before Growl can talk" bit is to not stop talking once he gets a word in :chef_kiss:
It's good to hear Max overcome his mid life crisis and realize he does indeed "still got it"
Man, you guys should make Growl a staple for the group, having double cats would be amazing. Also to have a peoples voice in the podcast.
Also helps balance out the dragons max vs just dorki raid vs dungeon bits sometimes
The superior Cat graces us with his presence. Coherent takes from this cat.
Spinning the chair around when Dorki talks is SOOO good.
Dratnos reading bed time patch notes to me is how I"ve fallen asleep every night this week.
“I love this game because I get to play and I’m sick at it” goes craaaazy
Shoutout to Fronk making Dorki turning around on his chair in background. That’s so funny
Dratnos should make his video be a tier list ranking of tier list pros and cons.
absolutely obsessed with the way that Dratty says THAT"S RIGHT!
Growl if you can see me, I loved that video about environmental storytelling, very cool idea. You da best!
You drove me to !tierlist in your channel while offline. Mission successful.
Growl is 100% right about tank trinkets
isn't Blizzard fixing that in TWW? as in, making dps trinkets less effective for Tanks and vice-versa? I wonder if it'll actually help.
I am not running the cheat death trinket from DOTI this season… I’m running my dreadplates + treemouth or anvil, and that hasn’t stopped me from doing +17’s this season (first season tanking)… like I get when your pushing top 100-250 M raid, but the toxic BS of ‘’inspect and if they not running x or y, make them feel bad’’ is the exact reason why there are so very little tanks and healers.
@@mura-moto by the same logic, cheat death trinket would not stop you in +17, you don't need extra dps from dreadplates
@@tommy4862 never said it would? I am just saying I loathe the glorification of toxicity Growl is advocating here… I don’t want to run doti for a cheat death trinket, and I can do high keys without relying on it. So why should ppl then ‘’inspect and make me feel bad’’ cause I do not use a cheat death trinket?
@@mura-moto he’s just saying the most important thing about the tank is for him to live, because many times it’s impossible to recover from tank dying. That’s why it makes more sense to play defensive instead of chasing dps. I think that’s all, people just get angry at that sometimes.
SHOUT OUT FRONK THE GOAT - Edit: Blurred out naked Dorki cat is the best bit.
Dratnos is the glue that holds this pod together tbh
The tuning on beta is indeed crazy, and how much attention has been given to particular classes compared to others really makes some classes feel very neglected. Priest has basically gotten no changes since alpha and is stuck with so many 2 point nodes while seeing so many specs have their 2 point nodes removed.
Dratnos's comment about the first 8 hours being the most fun is a simple premise that plagues every single MMO (if not every game) period: People then begin to optimize the fun out of the game. When that starts to happen, yes you're playing the game as best you can but you're doing it by reading guides, simulating dps, etc. Unless being that tip top optimizer is your thing, and for most people it isn't, then it begins to feel like a chore rather than fun.
Growl is on fire this episode. Dratnos patchnote bedtime story!
Growl is my relateable civilian pov
If growl and dorki were on the same episode, hell would freeze over
The funny thing is Dratnos identified what us oldheads are talking about right before Max guessed about what the friction is for the oldheads. Especially those of us who played MMOs before WoW existed.
Yes, we miss the wonder of exploring and figuring things out on our own. But much more than that, we miss the game being designed with the intention of making it FUN, rather than ADDICTING.
Love the cast for the pure WoW knowledge, would be cool to have a casual Andy on for some choice perspective
T&E would be great for that, at least one of them. Timezones may be an issue though.
someday the 4th poddy, dorki, will permanently join. Also i feel ya Max, my mom is the youngest of 9 from a Missouri military family. Have 22 cousins. The family gatherings are WILD
The Growl Hijack no one but his fans saw coming...
the first month of ANY mmo is always the best experience
Really missed the "back by podular demand" opportunity there.
A cat is a cat is a cat is a cat
1:07:30 Back in HFC our Brewmaster would put his MoP cloak on to lower his ilvl to parse every week on mythic Archimonde farm and wouldn't take it off even the night we were carrying somebody and were wiping in phase 3 for two hours. Fun times.
He has returned, our savior, our lord Growl.
Growl glazers in full force
Growl reaffirming status as peoples champ!
Please keep making These "dudes Talk about their class-list"-videos max. I Love them
I upvoted just because Growl is in there.
I love that Max is having fun with Tarisland, but I feel he's seriously underestimating the difference in experience for people that are capable of spending large amounts of money/time VS those that cannot. It's been the primary reason that I've been unable to convince enough people to give it a try.
When the patreon question hitted i thought instantly about the yt video story of max uploading a pull when he killed a boss and then uploading another one when he wipes but does way more dmg. Hilarious
56:00 i actually fiend for that every class representative talks about their class and tiers it. Thats my favorite pre patch video
Rate of reasonable takes rises to 66% once again!
i love Max's "class expert" takes on the specs. What is new, what is the hype, what is dog or how does the new set bonus's play out for the specs.
Love when Growl is on the pod. The man of the people.
groWl is back let’s go
Growl's impersonation of Dorki had me dying.
I’m a tank and I use DPS trinket on prog until I die to a tank buster. If I die then I realize I need to respect the boss tank trinks go on immediately. For example I never put tank trinkets on for igira but I did for gnarlroot. But I think tank has two jobs 1 don’t die and hold threat!
2000's soda tier list you say??? Surge == GOATED
Love the banter between the cats on the screen.
I actually really enjoy having growl on the poddyc. Any plans to bring him in full time?
MMOs require a lot of time commitment and 99.99% of players aren’t content creators so their game time is limited. So if they are going to invest their time into another MMO they wanna make sure it’s not some here today dead tomorrow kinda thing. They aren’t playing the new stuff for views or because it’s sponsored. I feel a lot of streamers miss this.
Re: Tarisland raiding. "Good [games] borrow, great [games] steal outright." -Stravinsky (adapted)
OMG THAT FUCKING DISCORD PROFILE PICTURE OF DORKI FUCKING TURNING AROUND WHENEVER TALKING IS AWESOME
Thank you Growl for flaming the tanks, they need it.
And Dratnos is right, if you think you'd do a better job then go tank.
Max’s idea is similar to the SNL skit “what up with that “ 😂
Dratnos is and always will be the comedy relief.
I didn't realize Dorki was in the jail cell until he turned around for those 5 seconds lmaoooo
I love Max's start of season "tier" list......I really enjoy hearing what the experts in that class/spec have to say about the class/specs I enjoy.....not really for the actual tier lost of those discussions.
Dorki creeping has me weak xD
Only room for one cat. And it ain't Dorki
Pete was spittin on this one. Man of the people right here
The edits when dorki talks, the cat turns around. so good. oh man its sooo good
i love how everytime dorki turns in growls frame, hes naked as a reverence to the story of him gaming naked or in underwear
Personally I wish wow wasn't as seasonal as it is. I find it silly that you can basically raid log after a month.
I also thought when Dratnos said "logging into DF there's something to do" meanwhile I feel like it's the opposite because there is no system outside of raid/m+ as far as player power goes to do.
Max is that executive chef guy on Top Chef who hasn't actually cooked food in 5 years.
Max spitting facts about vocal cords and singing love it
Actually wild to hear other tanks worry more about dps and not staying alive. Tbh I only grab a dpsntrinket when I know I can survive without assistance. Then it makes sense but then the not taking gore fiends or abom is absolutely wild
this was easily yall's best podcast to date
38:10 & 46:30 The guys teasing Dorki enough to make him speak up was hilarious! 😂
Excited to watch this new episode of The Fronk Show
what does a cat do when you interrupt him for an hour? He growls.
Max "I thought you were going to say me" Relax main character
I think there is a very strong reason that almost every game has a progression system...any type of progression is simply fun for a lot of people. I did the first week of dragonflight grind because I was excited to play the game and having some little progression was fun to do.
Max getting self conscious about people calling him out for talking over people and then pretending to be doing the bit when he catches himself 😂
Never forget the days of seeing a geared out player in WoW and whispering them about their talents and rotation. Lol.
the cat of the people
I feel extremely called out by Growl's "Dratnos reading us patch notes like a bedtime story." I often leave Dratnos patch notes videos on as just something comforting to listen to
MAN OF THE PEOPLE !
Growl really showing his true feelings about tanks LOL
LOL Growl, the easiest healer is a banana... love it
Tier lists never impact what I play. There’s classes I like to play and classes I don’t. What I like about them is it tells me how good the classes I like to play are feeling right now in Beta/PTR. It helps me either have hope or no hope at all.
Dorki jumping in in so funny 😅
i loved when dorki popped the chair around in the jail XD
"Why do people ask 'Is this the WoW killer/Better than WoW', etc...?" Answer: Because most people don't have the ability to play and invest all their free time into multiple MMOs. They take a LOT of time and energy, and if you're a working person, you're likely quite discerning about the games you choose to invest that time and energy into. MMOs are typically forever games. You often build connections and friendships in them that last lifetimes. That's typically not an investment you can let go of at the drop of a hat.
Additionally, to poke at the other quandary I saw, yes WoW would probably be more fun if sims didn't exist. But eventually all games become that. Why do dps only care about dps? Because it's all anyone else cares about. It's what your healers and tanks care about, it's what you're in the raid/group to do. Maybe at the world first level you have to consider what utility classes bring and weigh that against their damage output, but that's SOLVED for us. We're not piecing together a puzzle of how to defeat the bosses because Liquid/Echo and various guides have already done that for us. At that point, everything that classes/specs CAN do is distilled down to the most essential components. Can you survive? If not, get things that make you survive (The guides will tell you what that is because some other guild's already solved it), if you can, do as much damage as possible. There ARE no other considerations to be made anymore.
Keep growl as a permanent member! MVKitty
55:50 never forget the "HDH is A tier" incident
Can confirm on the tier list thing... I always think Ill play FOTM but I stick with the like 5 classes that I enjoy and thats it
39:28 this is such a deep conversation
Elite Fire Mage Growl here
One of the thing with tier lists, is, as a guy with kids and limited game time. It can be extremely helpful to get a small snapshot of the relative viability of a spec or class. Something I do not have time to play test myself. Give me a snapshot so I can make a semi educated guess on what is complete trash or not.
great pod. growl cracking me up. 'Tanks are the absolute worst' - Growl. while i generally agree i also do not want to tank... OMEGABIS.
I played WoW since beta Vanilla. I miss my old Wrath guild because we didn't look up strats for raid, we intentionally went in blind and tried to figure everything out and we cleared Ulduar and ICC like that. I miss the old PVP model: no war mode, no resilience, no battlegrounds. I still remember what WoW was like before battlegrounds and uh we for SURE are never getting that back. Back in Beta, it seemed like every single person was RPing, It's hard to explain, but the white chat and emotes were used wayyyyyyyy more.
Pre BGs is when all the Tarren Mill and STV and guild wars stuff was going on and you routinely saw raids on capitol cities by players. BGs were the first queue content. First thing that could be spammed for a currency, everything else had lockouts. Removed the need to use the open world for honor. Ushered in LFG and LFR. Everything followed the BG model after that. If you put in queue content, it is going to kill the open world, period. War Mode is the nail in the coffin.
It's actually funny to me that they have a Tarren Mill brawl that is entirely inspired by a time in WoW that doesn't exist whatsoever anymore, like the chances of you having an organic 40v40 in Tarren Mill in retail right now is like 0% and people can't figure out why the open world is dead lol. And no you can't go back to Era and relive it, it doesn't exist.
I really like Growl, and Dr. Atnos… and Max