but they forgot brad miller and they actually chose matt harpring over ruben ratterson and michael dickerson who had injury issues over ricky davis..this is a joke...I get it if he was healthy but miller ruben should of been chosen...no disrespect to matt ricky and mike but I watched these guys play and they were clear role players...and ruben was better than them of that group of 4 for a spot...miller was a 2 time all star he was undrafted they forgot about him
Apparently you've got no idea how close Nowitzki came to leaving the NBA during and after his rookie season. Even with Nash "adopting" him and the full support of the Nelsons, he just didn't feel comfortable. I think it's extremely unlikely he'd have stayed with the Clippers. Not just because of the organization. Coming to Dallas was overwhelming, what do you think LA would have done to a 20-year-old who hadn't even played for a big city club in Europe?
Yeah, I'm thinking he definitely would have gone back to Europe. He was set on playing in Germany and going into the army there. That was before Nellie got a look at him and told him he was getting picked if he entered the draft. The raw skill was absolutely there, teams just had weak scouting back then and didn't trust Euros like they do now (which is why Luka was a #1 pick lmao).
Don't forget that Vince RE-SIGNED a huge contract with the Raptors AFTER his rookie contract. I don't think it was a "Canada thing". It was more a franchise mismanagement thing.
@@leonzaduncan2438 T-Mac made a bone head move and his tears all those playoff years are the proof. He left a talent laden team just when he was about to break out. His and the Raptors loss. They could have had a championship way before last season if T-Mac stayed.
All told, I’d say Vince Carter carved out a good career for himself. Perennial 20+ point scorer on decent efficiency through 2008, and had good athleticism. Was never someone you could build a championship team around, but was good for a decade before bouncing around the league for a decade more.
Give me Jamison either way. You ain't gonna win them early on, but I sure can swindle another team into giving me great assets with Jamison's first three years.
VC didn't dislike Toronto, he loved it there. He created the nightlife Toronto has today and brought Bottle Service. During the period of time leading to his exit to the Nets he was dealing with a new coach Sam Mitchell, who he disliked and got into a physical fight with, he disliked the management, they were not getting the players he wanted to help win which lead him to saying he will never dunk again because he felt that every night he was going to the hole but it was all for nothing and he kept getting knocked around and getting injured. In addition he had a lot of things in his personal like such as his manager/agent stole tons of money from him right before this time period but he was still dealing with it. He just had a lot of bad luck in Toronto.
He did not create Toronto's night life in anyway, or bring bottle service. It was already a world class city. The management point is fair, but his beef with Sam was a direct result of him already quitting on the team. He didn't just go through a rough time. He sabatoged his play and purposefully sucked.
You can tell they only referenced off the actual draft list and didnt look at who went undrafted that year because Brad Miller is definitely a lottery pick in a Redraftables universe.
I don't know if he's lottery pick but there's no doubt he would have gone in the 1st rd. This draft had some really elite players that would go on to have hall of fame careers.
I still remember being pissed when my Rockets (who had three 1st round picks in this draft) passed on Rashard Lewis. He went to high school in the Houston area, would have fit perfectly in Rudy T’s offense which put an emphasis on hitting the open 3 which gave Hakeem Olajuwon room to operate, and if he’s still on the team when they get Yao and T-Mac he’s the perfect third scoring option.
They weren't saying Rashar was better than Vince but the way their careers turned out -- Vince as the main guy didn't really translate to success -- you'd rather have other guys like Tmac, Pierce, Dirk etc over Vince but Rashard is somebody you could insert in many teams and pair with your 1st and 2nd top guy in a team and he'll be productive.
I think Don Nelson being Dirks first coch was imperative for his long and successful career, i can't see any coach at the time letting their 7ft euro draft pick hoist 3s and basically create the stretch 4 other than Don Nelson.
What happened to Carter: 1. His first few years Totonto had a solid front office and then it imploded and Richerd Pettie and Rob Babcock ruined him 2. He did have a bad attitude towards the end with no patience.
I think Vince’s career got derailed due to injury problems in ‘02 and ‘03. One of the most promising careers screwed up by injuries and his mentality. He was wasted in New Jersey, and should have been dealt somewhere else. I wish he had just been loyal to Toronto. By the way, I’m 22, and I think T-Mac was better, no hesitation.
exactly. injuries made him change his play style from a slasher to a shooter. I guess the longevity proves he did everything right, still a waste of talent unfortunately. he was the reason I became a Raptors fan back in the day, which I still am to this day
I agree with Bill that prime T Mac was better than prime Vince but to say that T Mac was way better as a #1 option than Vince when he never advanced past the first round is ludicrous lmao
tmac never got out of the first round because of the team he played for, even carter had a decent team compare to tmac, iverson atleast had old mutombo, pierce had walker , tmac was supposed to have hill and you all know what happened
I'm a lifetime Nuggets fan, and I'll never forget passing on Vince Carter for Raef LaFrentz. We could have a starting five of 1) Nick Van Exel, 2) Chauncey Billups, 3) Vince Carter, 4) Antonio McDyess, 5) Just some stiff. We would have something work with.
Saying that Vince carter didn’t get watched enough during his Toronto years is so wrong. He lead the league in all star voting like 5 years in a row and lead sportscenter regularly.
I think people hype up Vince so much, just because of that dunk contest. Like he just wasn’t a winner, he wasn’t an incredible defender that could lock guys up. He wasn’t an amazing shooter that could kill you from mid range or from deep, though he had some good seasons shooting the 3. Every team he was on after Toronto, was never better than they were before he was there. NJ made 2 finals, and he didn’t get em back. Phoenix was a contender and had some good seasons and your hope is too bring in vince so Nash can rely on his, but he didn’t help when he was there he couldn’t get them back to contention, Orlando had been to the finals, and he didn’t help them, Dallas won the title and he didn’t help them, Memphis was a really good team, but he was playing like 15-20 minutes a game, and didn’t contribute because he was now old. Atlanta and Sacramento were terrible teams, so he was playing meaningless minutes putting up meaningless points. He just wasn’t a winner, he couldn’t will your team to a deep run. He was a flashy dunker. THATS IT.
If Vince doesn't go to his college graduation dude has a different career. Also taking Bibby before Lewis or Jameson. Dude just had more heart and you can pair that with talent.
I must say this is definitely entertaining. Thank you for doing this. Listening to this is fun. You guys should do something where each of you ar GMs and pick a season and figure what you would for a couple seasons.
1. Dirk- hall of fame 2. Pierce- hall of fame 3. Carter- always thought t-mac was going to be better. Out of 5. I consider him 3rd tear all star. Probably could been better player drafted to different team. 4. R. Lewis- could play any era as shooter 3rd tier star but capable being a 2. More sf not great rebounder. Definitely was over paid. But he could be more useful as 3rd tier then jaminson 5. Jamison- good player but to inconsistent for mid low post player 6. Biby- 3rd tier star good not great scorer but clutch shooting threat 7. Hughes- good defender 3rd or 4th option scorer but also could run offense as he advanced 8. Mobley- 3rd scorer level 9. Harrington- under achieved 10. Lafrenz
bonzi had his momments during that era too , same body type , wears a headband, can post up, shoot from 3, but not as savy as prime paul pierce off the bounce, but bonzi was also one of my fave players at that time
I saw him play in GS, no way he is a HOFer, but sometimes stats get you in, he needed more games where he goes head to head vs Kobe (I believe he once scored 50plus to Kobe’s 50plus)… I wanted the Dubs to take Pierce to be honest as Antwan didn’t really blow my mind at UNC
Please use Chris Ryan more on the sports pods. Seems like he’s used mostly as the pop culture guy and he’s great at that but I wanna hear him talk hoops more
@@jordan12118 No beef, I just think he always bring the conversation down when it comes to sports. Even in the "joke first, facts second" world of The Ringer (a world he had a HUGE hand building in that exact way) he is always going too jokey, taking minutes/space away from people trying to make a real (or pseudo real in Simmons' case) argument first, and the joke second. And when it comes to real analysis... well, you could listen to the whole podcasts, he has nothing to do next to a Russillo.
Mac would've left kobe just like he left carter to be the top guy. Nowitzki would've lost all confidence and went back to Europe bc kobe would be scolding him for being soft. Things happen for a reason
He knows a lot about basketball but just says stupid stuff sometimes... Guess I would do the same talking so much but I had the same thought one this point
I love the disrespect they have for Alston and don’t mention how he played a very key role for the 2009 magic team when Jameer Nelson went down with an injury and Alston was essentially their only point guard and helped them make the finals.
I know I've said something similar on another year but i love the deep dives they do and hearing names i haven't heard in years and even guys like jamison who were stars but nobody really talks about and guys like Rashad lewis who i always thought was a really good player and looks even better now with how the nba is ..
This redraft thing is interesting but it'll even be better if there're former players doing it. Just to see how similar or different they think compared to the Ringer panel.
+1 This is cool... But having Charles Barkley, Gilbert Arenas, & Shaq doing it would be WAAAY more interesting/illuminating 🤔🤔 I'd love to see what Agent Zero's takes would be on some of his contemporaries
Toronto is not retiring Vince's number. The only thing he did was get us to the second round. in his last 2 years he was just dejected and didnt want to commit to winning. Then he subsequently forces his way out of town.
There's a reason 2000-2001 was VC's best year. It's called Charles Oakley. He's the only guy I ever saw who managed to get Vince to try his best. VC did a lot for Toronto, and I'll always love him for it. But he quit on us, no question, and I'll always hate him a little bit for that too.
Bonzi and Ron Artest used their physicality against the Spurs forwards to help find a way to force that 1v8 matchup to 6 games. Bonzi/Artest/Bibby. Bruce Bowen was a good (some would say great) wing defender, and Bonzi and Artest would pound him down low until SAS figured it out. That's where the 23 and 12 came from. Of course I drink a lot, but that is how I remembered that series playing out. Haha
Guys are forgetting how good of a three-point shooter Vince Carter was. Here are his shooting percentages in his first 7 seasons: Rookie season: .288 2000: .403 on 3 attempts/game 2001: .408 on 5 attempts/game 2002: .387 on 5 attempts/game 2003: .344, injury-shortened season 2004: .383 on 3 attempts/game 2005: .406 on 4 attempts/game These are great numbers from a volume scorer, and the percentages are about on par with Kevin Durant. He didn't have the benefit of just sitting in the corner waiting for a wide-open shot. The only way I take Rashard Lewis ahead of Vince is if you know Vince refuses to be a second-option.
Imagine that starting line-up in LA: Darrick Martin, Eric Piatkowski, Tyrone Nesby, Maurice Taylor and Dirk Nowitzki! They would have had double digit wins that season!!
I’m confused. I thought Dallas had the 6th pick that year. I distinctly remember the order being: Jamison to Toronto, Carter to Golden State (then the trade) and Traylor to Dallas… and I was very bummed out, haha! Even after I heard about the trade with Milwaukee, who picked 9th, for Nowitzki, I was not enthused. I’m glad I was wrong… also, Jamison had a pretty nice career. He wasn’t bad in Dallas, either. He actually won 6th Man of the Year that season. Interesting to note: Dallas had had three winners for that award.
Vince Carter was amazing that season. He was seen as better than Kobe and Mcgrady. Then he just never became the same. There were some glimpses of it right after he was traded to the Nets that half season.
I remember I thought it was gonna either be Bibby or Jamison picked first until I read the sports page in my dads newspaper that day saying the clippers were gonna pick Olowakandi. I had never heard of the guy until then lol
Simmons is upset at Harpring, but picks LaFrentz? None of the guys left after 8 on this list are going to get you fired if you miss out on them. Nothing in particular "happened" to Vince Carter. He had talent, but not all of these guys hate losing as much as we fans might want them to. The transcendental players aren't just talented. They love to play, they practice because they want to, not just because a coach tells them to. Not every player is as obsessed as Kobe or Lebron.
Jason wiliams was the 4th best scorer and best passer on a title team as the lead pg 2nd best guard and single handedly ended the 2006 64 win pistons run with ben 4x dpoy wallace in the playoffs...he avg 12 a game and 10 in the playoffs 9 in the finals
@@dice1296 The concept is still used with big men today but the big man has evolved (Giannis). A bulky big with a jumper would be the ultimate cheat code.
Larry Hughes actually only played on *6* _DIFFERENT_ teams, not 8, like they said. There were 8 different transactions that included his name, be they trades that included his name (you see some of those), or changing teams via Free Agency, but regardless, there are only 6 teams on the list, which does not count as 8 teams.
Vince Carter ended up with the same issue as derrick Rose. Both were extremely talented and both had top tier explosiveness were physically stronger and quicker then the rest of the league. Both Ended up with leg injuries that slowed them down and neutered they’re “above the rim” game. And both had to quickly figure out a entirely new way of playing offense which entailed less drives to the rim and more mid range and 3 pointer shot attempts. Their jumpshots gave them a new lease on their careers and if they were stubborn and didn’t adjust, then they would of been run outta the league yrs before they actually wanted to! D. Rose wouldn’t be playing in the Garden right now, let alone the last 5+ yrs or so!
Vince really loved Toronto. He's been on record 100000 times saying this. He hated Babcock and the mess that was the Raps organization in 04/05. It's sad to see such ignorance from people this plugged in.
Can love Vince and all and i was surprised he became a good veteran leader later on his career, however I never saw this amount of talent play so many soul less games in his peak. Still disappointed in his overall career, I saw so much more in him.
@@robd1811 Tom Chambers didn't make the hall of fame 20.049 points.. Highest PER season for Antawn is 21.2 average 18.1. He was very consistent, he doesn't feel like a hall of famer to me.
uh the vince comment about hating canada is so ignorant and wrong. have you seen the carter effect? the country was nowhere near the issue, vince always called toronto the "best kept secret". the issue was the raptors management at the time and tension between them and vince.
Bill u were absolutely right about Vince that season as a Canadian fan watching at the time he got so popular so fast they would have giving him everything but his mom wanted him out of Toronto was the consensus across the news at the time so maybe a combo of that and the "Icarus " factor cause he could have been so huge if he stayed! My Dad I think said it best to me at the time that he could have been the star of not just the league but 2 countries with 2 different markets.....was such a let down
As a Dubs fan, I was hoping for another player, but Antwan did want to be at GS, he did play hard, was never a problem and did duel against Kobe one time and they both scored 50… actually I wanted them to take Pierce and I went to school with Olowakandi and we thought the Clippers were stupid for thing Mike, he needed to be drafted by a team With an established Center to learn…
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
There are other networks debating “Who would win, MJ or Lebron in a game of horse”
Thank you for this
Sad part is that more people care or will watch these idiotic espn segments than this...
That's kind of a fun argument to have though
but they forgot brad miller and they actually chose matt harpring over ruben ratterson and michael dickerson who had injury issues over ricky davis..this is a joke...I get it if he was healthy but miller ruben should of been chosen...no disrespect to matt ricky and mike but I watched these guys play and they were clear role players...and ruben was better than them of that group of 4 for a spot...miller was a 2 time all star he was undrafted they forgot about him
@@razkable relax Copernicus
Not even a mention for two-time all-star Brad Miller.
probably because he was undrafted
@@dilanmarfatia5923 nope 96 redraft they drafted undrafted Ben Wallace
@@dilanmarfatia5923 That's what I assume otherwise Brad Miller and Earl Boykins are big omissions.
This is a deep draft
I think they forgot about him 🤦♂️
I just wanna thank all 3 of you for making this while we are all stuck at home.
8 months later...... me too bud
@@Harry_Paratesties almost two fucking years later. Just got the virus for the first time
2 years later… me too boys
Here from 2023, these videos hold up
Shout out to all the brad miller burners in this comment section
I’m surprised Brad Miller didn’t make this re-draft
They forgot about him - Ruben Patterson will not get mentioned before Brad Miller if they remembered
Came here to say they must have forgotten him.
two-time All-Star
Sportsnet did a redraft 7 years ago had Brad going 7th but they had Ricky Davis going 11th so take it with a grain of salt.
They forgot about him because he went undrafted, so he wasnt on the list of players they researched.
Apparently you've got no idea how close Nowitzki came to leaving the NBA during and after his rookie season. Even with Nash "adopting" him and the full support of the Nelsons, he just didn't feel comfortable. I think it's extremely unlikely he'd have stayed with the Clippers. Not just because of the organization. Coming to Dallas was overwhelming, what do you think LA would have done to a 20-year-old who hadn't even played for a big city club in Europe?
bro relax
@@saml5633 Dirk was soft, he would have bailed for sure
bigman I he wasnt soft. Just new to the U.S. style of play. There’s a difference.
Yeah, I'm thinking he definitely would have gone back to Europe. He was set on playing in Germany and going into the army there. That was before Nellie got a look at him and told him he was getting picked if he entered the draft.
The raw skill was absolutely there, teams just had weak scouting back then and didn't trust Euros like they do now (which is why Luka was a #1 pick lmao).
@@Firebert Luka went 3rd still
Don't forget that Vince RE-SIGNED a huge contract with the Raptors AFTER his rookie contract. I don't think it was a "Canada thing". It was more a franchise mismanagement thing.
T-Mac leaving doesn't help.
@@leonzaduncan2438 T-Mac made a bone head move and his tears all those playoff years are the proof. He left a talent laden team just when he was about to break out. His and the Raptors loss. They could have had a championship way before last season if T-Mac stayed.
And he owned a bight club there
Night*
All told, I’d say Vince Carter carved out a good career for himself.
Perennial 20+ point scorer on decent efficiency through 2008, and had good athleticism.
Was never someone you could build a championship team around, but was good for a decade before bouncing around the league for a decade more.
In 2020 give me Rashard Lewis over Antawn Jamison. In the 90s/early 2000s give me Jamison.
Give me Jamison either way. You ain't gonna win them early on, but I sure can swindle another team into giving me great assets with Jamison's first three years.
Armando who would fit better on the rockets Lewis or Ray Allen
@@mantgrta9728 either one cant go wrong
Jamison was a better rebounder/scorer almost as good as a shooter
Give me Rashard either way.
Dirk even considered going back to europe the first year. On Clippers with the wrong coach, he actually would have gone back..
scotti pippen hell yeah.
Great point probably right
as someone not alive for any of these years, its super enjoyable to listen to you guys do this.
feels like ive been waiting in my bubble forever for another pod. who would have thought back in 2009 id be listening to bill simmons podcasts in 2020
Brad Miller over Frentz
Y’all buggin with the Al Harrington dis track y’all just made.
Agreed
"I was at a Clipper game .."
-Bill Simmons every podcast
Bill “I was actually there” Simmons
VC didn't dislike Toronto, he loved it there. He created the nightlife Toronto has today and brought Bottle Service. During the period of time leading to his exit to the Nets he was dealing with a new coach Sam Mitchell, who he disliked and got into a physical fight with, he disliked the management, they were not getting the players he wanted to help win which lead him to saying he will never dunk again because he felt that every night he was going to the hole but it was all for nothing and he kept getting knocked around and getting injured. In addition he had a lot of things in his personal like such as his manager/agent stole tons of money from him right before this time period but he was still dealing with it. He just had a lot of bad luck in Toronto.
💯💯💯 crazy! I had no idea all that shit was going on and I was following the league hard then
He did not create Toronto's night life in anyway, or bring bottle service. It was already a world class city. The management point is fair, but his beef with Sam was a direct result of him already quitting on the team. He didn't just go through a rough time. He sabatoged his play and purposefully sucked.
@@johnmcm7690Stop the cap. Toronto was not world class back then. I’ve been living here
Man I love these redraft episodes !!! Really glad I stumbled upon this channel keep up the awesome content guys
Has anyone done a count of how many times Bill mentions he had season tickets to the clippers in all of these?
You can tell they only referenced off the actual draft list and didnt look at who went undrafted that year because Brad Miller is definitely a lottery pick in a Redraftables universe.
Albert Wright Facts
I don't know if he's lottery pick but there's no doubt he would have gone in the 1st rd. This draft had some really elite players that would go on to have hall of fame careers.
@@dougless4019
Well shit if these guys are casuals than im not even a fan.
No
I still remember being pissed when my Rockets (who had three 1st round picks in this draft) passed on Rashard Lewis. He went to high school in the Houston area, would have fit perfectly in Rudy T’s offense which put an emphasis on hitting the open 3 which gave Hakeem Olajuwon room to operate, and if he’s still on the team when they get Yao and T-Mac he’s the perfect third scoring option.
Michael Dickerson was nice before the injuries.
Every week you can count on these guys to disrespect a legend. Who is arguing that Rashard Lewis is better than Vince Carter? Literally nobody
Jake Smooke ikr
Outrageous to even consider
They weren't saying Rashar was better than Vince but the way their careers turned out -- Vince as the main guy didn't really translate to success -- you'd rather have other guys like Tmac, Pierce, Dirk etc over Vince but Rashard is somebody you could insert in many teams and pair with your 1st and 2nd top guy in a team and he'll be productive.
@@zpacify Bill said you can make the case that Rashard should've been picked over Vince Carter. Sorry but you cannot
Jake Smooke i think the angle theyre taking is that their career arc stays the same regardless of who they trade it to
I think Don Nelson being Dirks first coch was imperative for his long and successful career, i can't see any coach at the time letting their 7ft euro draft pick hoist 3s and basically create the stretch 4 other than Don Nelson.
What happened to Carter:
1. His first few years Totonto had a solid front office and then it imploded and Richerd Pettie and Rob Babcock ruined him
2. He did have a bad attitude towards the end with no patience.
You're forgetting the coaching after Lenny Wilkins left were average. Plus Mark Jackson got old
Yes, all true. I was just highlighting for the clueless American media that don't know anything about Toronto sports teams.
He hated living in Toronto too
I’d rather have peak Bibby over Jameson and Lewis.
Jeremiah Miller I totally agree. I was surprised they didn't pick him first. Bibby was considerably better
Bibby peak prime numbers, not even all star numbers lol
Peak bibby, but not full career bibby
jamison
The disrespect on Jamison
I think Vince’s career got derailed due to injury problems in ‘02 and ‘03. One of the most promising careers screwed up by injuries and his mentality. He was wasted in New Jersey, and should have been dealt somewhere else. I wish he had just been loyal to Toronto. By the way, I’m 22, and I think T-Mac was better, no hesitation.
exactly. injuries made him change his play style from a slasher to a shooter. I guess the longevity proves he did everything right, still a waste of talent unfortunately. he was the reason I became a Raptors fan back in the day, which I still am to this day
Thank you! I am a huge Vince fan and what they said about the cause of his career was 100% wrong.
Vince with the Nets was arguably the best version of himself throughout his 22 year career.
Vince was never the same after missing that playoff game to got to his graduation true story
TMac was FILTHY. 24 yr old here. Especially in the Orlando years
I agree with Bill that prime T Mac was better than prime Vince but to say that T Mac was way better as a #1 option than Vince when he never advanced past the first round is ludicrous lmao
Facts
T Mac had a higher peak but Vince was still really really good.
If T-Mac would stayed, so would he.
Yeah but Vince didn't get past the 2 round and was out in the first a lot bottom line you need a team around you
tmac never got out of the first round because of the team he played for, even carter had a decent team compare to tmac, iverson atleast had old mutombo, pierce had walker , tmac was supposed to have hill and you all know what happened
"I drafted him bc maybe in a different world he doesn't get hurt"
Okay so I want that same energy with Drose in the 2008 redrafts
I'm a lifetime Nuggets fan, and I'll never forget passing on Vince Carter for Raef LaFrentz. We could have a starting five of 1) Nick Van Exel, 2) Chauncey Billups, 3) Vince Carter, 4) Antonio McDyess, 5) Just some stiff. We would have something work with.
Thank god there's something to have on in the background as I'm alone in my apartment
Boo hoo 😭
Matt harping lol what a throwback
Crazy Vince still in the league!!
@Jahod D. it'd be a shame if COVID-19 kills his career. but he's been awful this season, so i think he's done
He retired after the league suspended play
Vinsanity future hof
Saying that Vince carter didn’t get watched enough during his Toronto years is so wrong. He lead the league in all star voting like 5 years in a row and lead sportscenter regularly.
I think people hype up Vince so much, just because of that dunk contest. Like he just wasn’t a winner, he wasn’t an incredible defender that could lock guys up. He wasn’t an amazing shooter that could kill you from mid range or from deep, though he had some good seasons shooting the 3. Every team he was on after Toronto, was never better than they were before he was there. NJ made 2 finals, and he didn’t get em back. Phoenix was a contender and had some good seasons and your hope is too bring in vince so Nash can rely on his, but he didn’t help when he was there he couldn’t get them back to contention, Orlando had been to the finals, and he didn’t help them, Dallas won the title and he didn’t help them, Memphis was a really good team, but he was playing like 15-20 minutes a game, and didn’t contribute because he was now old. Atlanta and Sacramento were terrible teams, so he was playing meaningless minutes putting up meaningless points. He just wasn’t a winner, he couldn’t will your team to a deep run. He was a flashy dunker. THATS IT.
If Vince doesn't go to his college graduation dude has a different career.
Also taking Bibby before Lewis or Jameson. Dude just had more heart and you can pair that with talent.
This was so needed in 2020.
I must say this is definitely entertaining. Thank you for doing this. Listening to this is fun. You guys should do something where each of you ar GMs and pick a season and figure what you would for a couple seasons.
Rashad Lewis is responsible for us not getting a lebron-kobe finals in 2009
Watching all these redraft videos, if you pay attention real closely, Bill Simmons never fails to throw a shot a Lebron in some way lol.
1. Dirk- hall of fame
2. Pierce- hall of fame
3. Carter- always thought t-mac was going to be better. Out of 5. I consider him 3rd tear all star. Probably could been better player drafted to different team.
4. R. Lewis- could play any era as shooter
3rd tier star but capable being a 2. More sf not great rebounder. Definitely was over paid. But he could be more useful as 3rd tier then jaminson
5. Jamison- good player but to inconsistent for mid low post player
6. Biby- 3rd tier star good not great scorer but clutch shooting threat
7. Hughes- good defender 3rd or 4th option scorer but also could run offense as he advanced
8. Mobley- 3rd scorer level
9. Harrington- under achieved
10. Lafrenz
Gotta take j will over al hughes and lafrentz...sorry
Bonzi Wells was always a guy I wish my team would have on the bench lol he's like a bench Paul Pierce
Perfect, lol.
in 2020 the best comp for peak bonzi would be jerami grant
bonzi had his momments during that era too , same body type , wears a headband, can post up, shoot from 3, but not as savy as prime paul pierce off the bounce, but bonzi was also one of my fave players at that time
Larry Hughes easily over Lafrentz and Alston wtf
Nas Holston Larry Hughes was not as good as he was thought to be
@@mantgrta9728 Hughes was better than those two.
MCH ik
if Antawn Jamison makes the HOF, what the hell are we doing here?
Worse players have made it
PlatinumState Agree, there are way worse players than Jamison that have made the HOF
It says something about our society..scared to hurt someone
I saw him play in GS, no way he is a HOFer, but sometimes stats get you in, he needed more games where he goes head to head vs Kobe (I believe he once scored 50plus to Kobe’s 50plus)… I wanted the Dubs to take Pierce to be honest as Antwan didn’t really blow my mind at UNC
Please use Chris Ryan more on the sports pods. Seems like he’s used mostly as the pop culture guy and he’s great at that but I wanna hear him talk hoops more
The absolute opposite of this, please.
@@Teukro Sorry I think he's good, what's your beef with Chris Ryan?
@Teukro Jordan Davis aka quarantined Chris Ryan
@@jordan12118 No beef, I just think he always bring the conversation down when it comes to sports. Even in the "joke first, facts second" world of The Ringer (a world he had a HUGE hand building in that exact way) he is always going too jokey, taking minutes/space away from people trying to make a real (or pseudo real in Simmons' case) argument first, and the joke second. And when it comes to real analysis... well, you could listen to the whole podcasts, he has nothing to do next to a Russillo.
@@jordan12118 he sucks
76ers had the chance to draft Kobe, T Mac, Dirk three years in a row. Wild what if team.
Vantablac SOL they always fuck up the draft. They get it right barely
Vantablac SOL they got Allen Iverson instead of kobe sooooo
They would’ve gotten scorched if they drafted Kobe over AI.
Mac would've left kobe just like he left carter to be the top guy. Nowitzki would've lost all confidence and went back to Europe bc kobe would be scolding him for being soft. Things happen for a reason
Kobe is a true miss because he's a hometown dude. Like D.Rose going to the Bulls.
Bill Simmons
The fact at any time you thought Vince Carter’s ceiling was as high as Kobe shows how much basketball you DON’T know
He knows a lot about basketball but just says stupid stuff sometimes... Guess I would do the same talking so much but I had the same thought one this point
Alot of good forgotten players from 9 to 15. Rafer Alston was a forgotten man. Had a nice career
Low key hilarious line: "Is Korleone still available?".
Ben's intro song still slaps. It deserves a revival
R.I.P Lorenzon Wright you are missed
I love the disrespect they have for Alston and don’t mention how he played a very key role for the 2009 magic team when Jameer Nelson went down with an injury and Alston was essentially their only point guard and helped them make the finals.
THis draft was way better than 97
Ricky Davis was that dude, mad entertaining and so forgotten about now that it’s sad...him and Larry Hughes need more respect frfr
Ricky davis was that dude that would lead the team in scoring and lose every single night
I know I've said something similar on another year but i love the deep dives they do and hearing names i haven't heard in years and even guys like jamison who were stars but nobody really talks about and guys like Rashad lewis who i always thought was a really good player and looks even better now with how the nba is ..
@Ringer You should put the podcast time stamps in the vid description!
This podcast needed Joe House! Look at Antawn in Washington.
This redraft thing is interesting but it'll even be better if there're former players doing it. Just to see how similar or different they think compared to the Ringer panel.
+1
This is cool... But having Charles Barkley, Gilbert Arenas, & Shaq doing it would be WAAAY more interesting/illuminating 🤔🤔
I'd love to see what Agent Zero's takes would be on some of his contemporaries
Toronto is not retiring Vince's number. The only thing he did was get us to the second round. in his last 2 years he was just dejected and didnt want to commit to winning. Then he subsequently forces his way out of town.
Awesome content! I think they should've talked more about the potential PP #2 pick before moving onto Vince so quickly.
There's a reason 2000-2001 was VC's best year. It's called Charles Oakley. He's the only guy I ever saw who managed to get Vince to try his best. VC did a lot for Toronto, and I'll always love him for it. But he quit on us, no question, and I'll always hate him a little bit for that too.
Marc Fournier vc hasn't been good for 10 years
Thought you cornball Canadiens didn't hate anyone
cole eason Great joke bro.... and we’re the cornballs
@@chiefw3573 what's really funny is that I've been called CHIEF since I been on the planet wats the W for bro
And how many times have you seen some grown person spell CHIEF like this cheif
Bonzi and Ron Artest used their physicality against the Spurs forwards to help find a way to force that 1v8 matchup to 6 games. Bonzi/Artest/Bibby. Bruce Bowen was a good (some would say great) wing defender, and Bonzi and Artest would pound him down low until SAS figured it out. That's where the 23 and 12 came from. Of course I drink a lot, but that is how I remembered that series playing out. Haha
All facts about Vince Carter
Guys are forgetting how good of a three-point shooter Vince Carter was. Here are his shooting percentages in his first 7 seasons:
Rookie season: .288
2000: .403 on 3 attempts/game
2001: .408 on 5 attempts/game
2002: .387 on 5 attempts/game
2003: .344, injury-shortened season
2004: .383 on 3 attempts/game
2005: .406 on 4 attempts/game
These are great numbers from a volume scorer, and the percentages are about on par with Kevin Durant. He didn't have the benefit of just sitting in the corner waiting for a wide-open shot. The only way I take Rashard Lewis ahead of Vince is if you know Vince refuses to be a second-option.
I love these
I would easily take Bibby over both Rashard Lewis and Antawn Jamison
This helped a lot of us get through the pandemic 😅
Imagine that starting line-up in LA: Darrick Martin, Eric Piatkowski, Tyrone Nesby, Maurice Taylor and Dirk Nowitzki! They would have had double digit wins that season!!
Raef LaFrentz was a solid defender too.
Fun pod! I think Brad Miller should of been drafted.
22:18 Russillo talks about his dating life
Betters ReDraft
(? For injury Concerns or character issue)
Dirk?
Pierce
Carter?
Lewis/Jamison
Bibby/Mobley
Miller/Harrington/LaFrentz?
Harping/Wells/Dickerson?
Hughes
Williams/Alston
I’m confused. I thought Dallas had the 6th pick that year. I distinctly remember the order being: Jamison to Toronto, Carter to Golden State (then the trade) and Traylor to Dallas… and I was very bummed out, haha! Even after I heard about the trade with Milwaukee, who picked 9th, for Nowitzki, I was not enthused. I’m glad I was wrong… also, Jamison had a pretty nice career. He wasn’t bad in Dallas, either. He actually won 6th Man of the Year that season. Interesting to note: Dallas had had three winners for that award.
Vince Carter was amazing that season. He was seen as better than Kobe and Mcgrady. Then he just never became the same. There were some glimpses of it right after he was traded to the Nets that half season.
I remember I thought it was gonna either be Bibby or Jamison picked first until I read the sports page in my dads newspaper that day saying the clippers were gonna pick Olowakandi. I had never heard of the guy until then lol
Simmons is upset at Harpring, but picks LaFrentz? None of the guys left after 8 on this list are going to get you fired if you miss out on them.
Nothing in particular "happened" to Vince Carter. He had talent, but not all of these guys hate losing as much as we fans might want them to. The transcendental players aren't just talented. They love to play, they practice because they want to, not just because a coach tells them to. Not every player is as obsessed as Kobe or Lebron.
Jason wiliams was the 4th best scorer and best passer on a title team as the lead pg 2nd best guard and single handedly ended the 2006 64 win pistons run with ben 4x dpoy wallace in the playoffs...he avg 12 a game and 10 in the playoffs 9 in the finals
Rashard Lewis was a stretch 4 before being a stretch 4 was a thing.
kinda, yeah. that was the "let's surround dwight howard w/ a bunch of shooters" team
@@dice1296 The concept is still used with big men today but the big man has evolved (Giannis). A bulky big with a jumper would be the ultimate cheat code.
Robert horry
Dirk would like a word with you. Lol.
@@dohpe- My statement wasn't exclusive of others but rather indicated that Lewis was a stretch 4 at a time before it was popular and trendy.
Larry Hughes actually only played on *6* _DIFFERENT_ teams, not 8, like they said.
There were 8 different transactions that included his name, be they trades that included his name (you see some of those), or changing teams via Free Agency, but regardless, there are only 6 teams on the list, which does not count as 8 teams.
We need this 2013- redraft
If you’re making style point picks ya gotta take Rafer over White Chocolate.
Love watching these! I gotta say JWilliams became a strong fundamentals point guard in Miami and from there forward
He really got that when he was with Memphis before the heat. Hubbie Brown calmed him down and made him play PG
Vince Carter ended up with the same issue as derrick Rose. Both were extremely talented and both had top tier explosiveness were physically stronger and quicker then the rest of the league.
Both Ended up with leg injuries that slowed them down and neutered they’re “above the rim” game. And both had to quickly figure out a entirely new way of playing offense which entailed less drives to the rim and more mid range and 3 pointer shot attempts. Their jumpshots gave them a new lease on their careers and if they were stubborn and didn’t adjust, then they would of been run outta the league yrs before they actually wanted to! D. Rose wouldn’t be playing in the Garden right now, let alone the last 5+ yrs or so!
Solid list until the end, i would have swapped out alston and dickerson for Ricky Davis and Brad Miller tho. Appreciate the content
Carter bailed on Raptors like harden does when he doesn’t want to play somewhere
Sneaky russello fire take 🔥
one thing that’s not brought up about Jason Williams, is how he’s all these 90s-2010s players’ fav white player. From Shaq to KG
Vince really loved Toronto. He's been on record 100000 times saying this. He hated Babcock and the mess that was the Raps organization in 04/05. It's sad to see such ignorance from people this plugged in.
19:12 "When can we make an aesthetics pick?"
HAHA, I'm crine. Love ya Chris.
Hughes was always hurt in Cleveland...not fair blaming that on lebron Bill.
Can love Vince and all and i was surprised he became a good veteran leader later on his career, however I never saw this amount of talent play so many soul less games in his peak. Still disappointed in his overall career, I saw so much more in him.
Antawn Jamison has 0% chance of making the Hall. Sorry, Bill.
20000 points is a shoe in like having over 10000 rushing yards in the NFL (not that that's a shoe in in the NFL but it's the measuring stick)
@@robd1811 Tom Chambers didn't make the hall of fame 20.049 points.. Highest PER season for Antawn is 21.2 average 18.1. He was very consistent, he doesn't feel like a hall of famer to me.
If you get 20k you make the hall out of eligible players with 20k only him and Tom chambers haven't made it the math is on Jamison's side
kaykay that's why joe Johnson gets in too if this was the NFL hall neither would but everyone gets in in the bball hall of fame
He'll go in because he was great at UNC
Both guys bow down so easily to Bill
Bibby went head to head w/ the Lakers and Tim Donaghy.
uh the vince comment about hating canada is so ignorant and wrong. have you seen the carter effect? the country was nowhere near the issue, vince always called toronto the "best kept secret". the issue was the raptors management at the time and tension between them and vince.
“I’m enjoying this but it doesn’t mean anything.” So basically League Pass teams.
Why did y'all remove the russillo LeBron segment
@@MrTinyTit twitter.com/kj161200/status/1245440267173482497?s=19
Can you elaborate a little bit?What segment you're talking about?
@@lisandro4612 check the tweet I've put ?
@@Karanjn what tweet mate ,I don't see anything
I don’t think Ryen likes the guy on third mic
I loved watching white chocolate 😂 we need the NBA to be fun like that again lol
Bill u were absolutely right about Vince that season as a Canadian fan watching at the time he got so popular so fast they would have giving him everything but his mom wanted him out of Toronto was the consensus across the news at the time so maybe a combo of that and the "Icarus " factor cause he could have been so huge if he stayed! My Dad I think said it best to me at the time that he could have been the star of not just the league but 2 countries with 2 different markets.....was such a let down
Honestly. For me, it's Dirk, Vince, Pierce, Jamison, Lewis
this draft actually made sense!
As a Dubs fan, I was hoping for another player, but Antwan did want to be at GS, he did play hard, was never a problem and did duel against Kobe one time and they both scored 50… actually I wanted them to take Pierce and I went to school with Olowakandi and we thought the Clippers were stupid for thing Mike, he needed to be drafted by a team
With an established Center to learn…