Just in case anyones forgotten their circle formulas, the .7854 constant used is Pi/4, because when manipulating the circle formulas in engine building we are using a diameter, which is our bore dimension, and that feeds the area of the surface of the piston into the calculation. That constant is easy to remember- it's the 4 numbers at the top left hand corner of a calculator keypad.
Truly appreciate that you guys took the time to explain the difference. Now I know a little bit more about small and big blocks. You learn something new every day!
Back in the day I built 350 small blocks for my 71 Camaro. Your videos I can now have my grandchildren watch as they are so well explained. I could never explain the difference like you did in this video!
💯,,, 302,DZ, chevy, 68,69, manufacturer championship title back to back,, 327: L79: 350hp, 327L84,375+Hp. ( Chevy Small Block😁), 396L78,RATED375,,actually dyno420hp. ...427L-71..435hp,,,,427L88,430hp,,,,427L72,425hp,,,(for insurance purposes), actually close to 475hp.,,, 454??? Don't need it😁 Difference is use a Chevrolet motor!!!, They owned Ford. Dodge & Plymouth did to. ,,,, 421side oiler was their 1 motor. And it was bad ass! ( that's a difference in small blocks & big blocks!😊
Bill, your description of the differences between Fords small and large displacement engines is right on the money as usual. They are clearly two entirely different engine types with no parts interchangeability between the two and both offer huge power increases with the proper modifications. But I would like to get your opinion about the two small displacement engines that share the same basic dimensions as all Ford “small blocks” with pushrod actuated valve trains but virtually no production parts interchange between the two engines. The 351 Cleveland is often described as a big block engine but it has the exact same cylinder bore centerline spacing and head bolt pattern as the traditional 351 Windsor small block engine. The canted valve Cleveland heads have the capacity to support much more horsepower than the limited flow of in-line valve Windsor heads. They are a direct bolt-on for Windsor blocks with only a minor modification needed for the coolant passage and the combination is appropriately named the “Clevor” engine. The powerful Clevor has become so popular that aftermarket companies are now offering alloy Cleveland head and intake packages specific to the Windsor block. But the debate about Clevelands being a big block, small block or even a mid-block continues. I gladly welcome all opinions 🤔.
We are actually planning a video on the Ford 351's in the future as soon as we can get our hands on a few! I have never owned a clevor but have had a few 351Ws. I have always preferred the windsor to the cleveland personally because of the larger selection of parts available but you cannot deny the power potential of the 351C. Personally I would consider the 351C a small block but with a big block head if that makes sense.
@@cjponyparts …. A Ford 351 video would be great and coming from a reputable source such as CJPP, I’m sure it will contain plenty of useful and accurate information for Blue Oval fans to enjoy. The internet is a wonderful source of information but when it comes to the Cleveland, the amount of blatant misinformation can be very confusing, especially to novice builders. I agree that the huge amount of aftermarket parts support has made the Windsor a popular choice for Ford builders and enthusiasts alike. I’ve owned a couple of Windsor’s in ‘69 Mach 1’s and I understand their popularity. I’ve also been involved with building Clevelands ever since I purchased my first 351C, 4-V powered 1970 Mach 1 39 years ago. I still own it and CJ Pony Parts has helped me keep it in great shape.
Nobody but chevy guys think the clevland is a big block. It is clearly a small block. Every ford guy knows this. A 400 is also a small block. Really ford never referred to them as either but if you apply those terms to these engines then obviously the clevland & all the v8 ford engines that share this bore spacing is a small block.
@@jesseduke694 … It can be confusing, apparently even more so to an unusually high number of Chevy fans. The single letter used to indicate the different small displacement, Ford pushrod V-8’s is simple enough for most people. Like you mentioned, the “335” Series of Ford engines also included the 400 cubic inch for those applications where extra torque was needed. It never was offered by Ford as a performance engine but it could of been a good starting point if they would have offered an optional 4-V carb and aluminum intake manifold , dual exhaust and a decent tune up. Those confused brand X guys call it a boat anchor and the 400M. Since Ford only made one production engine with 400 cubic inches, then identifying it shouldn’t be a problem. 🤷♂️ People with no imagination might see a boat anchor but most folks see the possibilities of a 431” + stroker Cleveland. The production cast iron 2 barrel heads have limited power production capacity. They still have an advantage over many other small block heads of that period because the poly angle valve layout, larger ports and valves all helped with increased flow. But nowadays there are several choices for aluminum Cleveland cylinder heads and intakes that are an affordable choice for making some serious power numbers. Ford originally used the 400 in trucks and larger family sedans that required the extra torque. But considering that a 400 with an alloy heads upgrade along with a healthy hydraulic roller cam profile, more compression and the basic performance goodies needed, will quickly transform the ANCHOR into an engine that would be awesome in a vintage Ford pickup truck or any sleeper/ classic Ford sedan. Using a hydraulic roller valve train to compliment the alloy heads, even a conservative build will dyno a solid 565 lb/ft of torque and enough horsepower to hopefully get some damn respect. Boat anchors have a tough job with no respect 😳🤔😁🏁. Get all of the respect due along with many decades of hardcore Cleveland race winning experience. Ask for Tim Meyer. tmeyerinc.com
If be curious what the overall cost comparison by going big block vs Small block vs coyote. Especially with a dart block sbf to get it into the same power figures. Really enjoyed this video
This is a question that has been asked time and time again, there really isn's a "correct" answer. For the cost of a coyote crate engine you can build s small or big block that makes the same power but usually they will usually have a rougher idle and not be as efficient as the 4 cam engine. Once you add power adders you can make 800 pretty easily with the coyote and the car will run like stock, this is a lot harder to do with the pushrod motors.
That's where I'm at with things, my friend built a 363 dart block with a tko and a Paxton Novi and is in it for a good amount with issues to boot. I'm currently with a gt40/explorer setup with the pimpX and don't think i want to adventure into aftermarket blocks just to get a littler security at the higher power levels. I think coyote is the goal I'll continue working towards
Early information on stroker motor confuses me. If you could change the stroke from 3 to 3.4 inches why does the bore have to change? Or if you change the bore why does the stroke need to change?
In the big block Chevy V8 engine, is it possible to adapt a head from another V8 engine to it? For example, could the 5.7 v8 hemi head from the 300c be adapted? What other different engine could you adapt it from?
I wanna know why my heads keep failing on my 1st Gen Coyote (2014) in my Mustang... I had a Reman put in and the heads failed on that one too... And what can I do to prevent it in the future?
What exactly is failing? I have seen Gen 1 heads take a lot of abuse, I have spun my sealed engine to nearly 8000 rpms without a failure although I would not suggest that!
@@cjponyparts cyl 4 and 7 keep losing compression and are misfiring this last time it was 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8... Also cyl 4 somehow also smashes the spark plug gap closed but there's no sign of anything touching it...
So actually 2JZ is BIG BLOCK engine. Because it has a bigger spacing between the cilinders. And hence a thicker side wall between the cilinders. So it is a BIG block.
I think you should somehow mention the actual geometric formula for the area of a circle or volume of a cylinder that include pi, and why you simplified it, just to minimize confusion, and keep educated people from cringing over the low bar level.
Justin the Ford 385 series of 429 and 460 big block engines clearly have an advantage over the goddamn BB Chevys when it comes to building stroker engines. The Ford block will accept a larger bore. The deck height allows a longer stroke and the cam tunnel is positioned higher in the block which allows more clearance between the cam and stroker rotating assemblies. The bottom end of the block is stronger thanks to thicker pan rails and structural bulkheads. Sure it weighs a few pounds more but the additional weight is in all the right places. Advantage Ford 🏁.
@@danielwilson6665 yes very well aware of flow numbers but what I was referring to his Chevrolet four years have always referred to Big Block small block and ford has always had a series of motor
Look I’m no mechanic however anything over 400 cubic inches is considered big block this is a fact lol you can google it However you can bore out a small block into a big block
back in the 1970's a 60 degree block was a small block and a 90 degree block was a big block (according to Chilton and Car Craft Magazine, Hot Rod, etc. That's how Chevy ended up with a small block 400 and a big block 396, but over the last 50 years it's gotten diluted and now you have some people thinking there's a different definition of small and big block but those people can't ever repeat what the definition is because they don't know, so maybe you're the first to know the alternate definition of a big block and a small block, I would love to hear a denier come up with a definition, so far you haven't been able to define what makes a small block small and what makes a big block big. I'm the only person in this discussion with any definition of it . . . .
@@douglasdobson8110 I can’t think of a 60 degree V8. All V8 I am familiar with are 90 degree blocks, irrespective of displacement, bore spacing, bearing count, or any other potential differentiator between “small block” and “big block”. This includes the flatheads from Ford, 2.0 litre offerings from Fiat, Ferrari, and Lamborghini, the 2.5 litre from Daimler, the 3.9 litre from Triumph, and the all aluminum 215 from Buick. All are 90 degree configurations.
all chevy small blocks are 60 degree and all Chevy big blocks are 90degree, or at least that was the case in the 1970's, people change, things are forgotten over time, but that used to be the identifier for big and small block V8's. Fifty years later here we are and it's not so cut and dried as it used to be@@michaelsolonynko8818
name one American small block that's a 90 degree block? should be easy since you seem to know so many 90 degree small blocks . . . and since you can't think of a single 60 degree block . . . do you even know what I mean by 60 degree and 90 degree? @@michaelsolonynko8818
Just in case anyones forgotten their circle formulas, the .7854 constant used is Pi/4, because when manipulating the circle formulas in engine building we are using a diameter, which is our bore dimension, and that feeds the area of the surface of the piston into the calculation. That constant is easy to remember- it's the 4 numbers at the top left hand corner of a calculator keypad.
Truly appreciate that you guys took the time to explain the difference. Now I know a little bit more about small and big blocks. You learn something new every day!
Thanks for watching! We plan on more tech talk videos in the future so if you haven't already, please subscribe!
Back in the day I built 350 small blocks for my 71 Camaro. Your videos I can now have my grandchildren watch as they are so well explained. I could never explain the difference like you did in this video!
💯,,, 302,DZ, chevy, 68,69, manufacturer championship title back to back,, 327: L79: 350hp, 327L84,375+Hp. ( Chevy Small Block😁),
396L78,RATED375,,actually dyno420hp. ...427L-71..435hp,,,,427L88,430hp,,,,427L72,425hp,,,(for insurance purposes), actually close to 475hp.,,, 454??? Don't need it😁 Difference is use a Chevrolet motor!!!, They owned Ford. Dodge & Plymouth did to. ,,,, 421side oiler was their 1 motor. And it was bad ass! ( that's a difference in small blocks & big blocks!😊
More of these type of videos!
We are working on it!
Absolutely love these kinds of videos!
Thanks for watching!
Great video man, really appreciate the detail you go into!
Bill, your description of the differences between Fords small and large displacement engines is right on the money as usual. They are clearly two entirely different engine types with no parts interchangeability between the two and both offer huge power increases with the proper modifications.
But I would like to get your opinion about the two small displacement engines that share the same basic dimensions as all Ford “small blocks” with pushrod actuated valve trains but virtually no production parts interchange between the two engines.
The 351 Cleveland is often described as a big block engine but it has the exact same cylinder bore centerline spacing and head bolt pattern as the traditional 351 Windsor small block engine.
The canted valve Cleveland heads have the capacity to support much more horsepower than the limited flow of in-line valve Windsor heads. They are a direct bolt-on for Windsor blocks with only a minor modification needed for the coolant passage and the combination is appropriately named the “Clevor” engine.
The powerful Clevor has become so popular that aftermarket companies are now offering alloy Cleveland head and intake packages specific to the Windsor block.
But the debate about Clevelands being a big block, small block or even a mid-block continues. I gladly welcome all opinions 🤔.
We are actually planning a video on the Ford 351's in the future as soon as we can get our hands on a few! I have never owned a clevor but have had a few 351Ws. I have always preferred the windsor to the cleveland personally because of the larger selection of parts available but you cannot deny the power potential of the 351C. Personally I would consider the 351C a small block but with a big block head if that makes sense.
@@cjponyparts good luck with that video presentation Bill. We're already confused!
@@cjponyparts …. A Ford 351 video would be great and coming from a reputable source such as CJPP, I’m sure it will contain plenty of useful and accurate information for Blue Oval fans to enjoy. The internet is a wonderful source of information but when it comes to the Cleveland, the amount of blatant misinformation can be very confusing, especially to novice builders.
I agree that the huge amount of aftermarket parts support has made the Windsor a popular choice for Ford builders and enthusiasts alike. I’ve owned a couple of Windsor’s in ‘69 Mach 1’s and I understand their popularity. I’ve also been involved with building Clevelands ever since I purchased my first 351C, 4-V powered 1970 Mach 1 39 years ago. I still own it and CJ Pony Parts has helped me keep it in great shape.
Nobody but chevy guys think the clevland is a big block. It is clearly a small block. Every ford guy knows this. A 400 is also a small block. Really ford never referred to them as either but if you apply those terms to these engines then obviously the clevland & all the v8 ford engines that share this bore spacing is a small block.
@@jesseduke694 … It can be confusing, apparently even more so to an unusually high number of Chevy fans. The single letter used to indicate the different small displacement, Ford pushrod V-8’s is simple enough for most people.
Like you mentioned, the “335” Series of Ford engines also included the 400 cubic inch for those applications where extra torque was needed. It never was offered by Ford as a performance engine but it could of been a good starting point if they would have offered an optional 4-V carb and aluminum intake manifold , dual exhaust and a decent tune up. Those confused brand X guys call it a boat anchor and the 400M. Since Ford only made one production engine with 400 cubic inches, then identifying it shouldn’t be a problem. 🤷♂️
People with no imagination might see a boat anchor but most folks see the possibilities of a 431” + stroker Cleveland. The production cast iron 2 barrel heads have limited power production capacity. They still have an advantage over many other small block heads of that period because the poly angle valve layout, larger ports and valves all helped with increased flow.
But nowadays there are several choices for aluminum Cleveland cylinder heads and intakes that are an affordable choice for making some serious power numbers. Ford originally used the 400 in trucks and larger family sedans that required the extra torque. But considering that a 400 with an alloy heads upgrade along with a healthy hydraulic roller cam profile, more compression and the basic performance goodies needed, will quickly transform the ANCHOR into an engine that would be awesome in a vintage Ford pickup truck or any sleeper/ classic Ford sedan.
Using a hydraulic roller valve train to compliment the alloy heads, even a conservative build will dyno a solid 565 lb/ft of torque and enough horsepower to hopefully get some damn respect. Boat anchors have a tough job with no respect 😳🤔😁🏁.
Get all of the respect due along with many decades of hardcore Cleveland race winning experience. Ask for Tim Meyer.
tmeyerinc.com
Fantastic video 🎉Thank you!!! Do you have a video explaining a street drag car transmission?
Excellent video. Very well explained!
Very informative, great video!
Preciated balsa wood 🪵
Thanks for watching!
Could you do something on the 351 Cleveland similar to this video?
We have a video on the 351 engines in the works!
If be curious what the overall cost comparison by going big block vs Small block vs coyote. Especially with a dart block sbf to get it into the same power figures. Really enjoyed this video
This is a question that has been asked time and time again, there really isn's a "correct" answer. For the cost of a coyote crate engine you can build s small or big block that makes the same power but usually they will usually have a rougher idle and not be as efficient as the 4 cam engine. Once you add power adders you can make 800 pretty easily with the coyote and the car will run like stock, this is a lot harder to do with the pushrod motors.
That's where I'm at with things, my friend built a 363 dart block with a tko and a Paxton Novi and is in it for a good amount with issues to boot. I'm currently with a gt40/explorer setup with the pimpX and don't think i want to adventure into aftermarket blocks just to get a littler security at the higher power levels. I think coyote is the goal I'll continue working towards
Excellent video. Great explanation.
Thank you!
Early information on stroker motor confuses me. If you could change the stroke from 3 to 3.4 inches why does the bore have to change?
Or if you change the bore why does the stroke need to change?
Displacement in cubic inches... what a crazy thing dude XD
That's was a really good explanation
Bill would make an excellent school teacher.
I don't know about all that but thanks lol
In the big block Chevy V8 engine, is it possible to adapt a head from another V8 engine to it? For example, could the 5.7 v8 hemi head from the 300c be adapted? What other different engine could you adapt it from?
thanks for the tech talk! 👍
Thanks for watching!
great video, thanks
very cool description!!!!
Excellent explanation 👍
A 3.7 V6 swap would b different.
Personally I am 100% torque .. big cubes, heavy rotating assembly, and a monster clutch .. WHOOP!
Damn I’m confused fr I love going fast tho had a 351 Cleveland growing up in a Torino
I wanna know why my heads keep failing on my 1st Gen Coyote (2014) in my Mustang... I had a Reman put in and the heads failed on that one too... And what can I do to prevent it in the future?
What exactly is failing? I have seen Gen 1 heads take a lot of abuse, I have spun my sealed engine to nearly 8000 rpms without a failure although I would not suggest that!
@@cjponyparts cyl 4 and 7 keep losing compression and are misfiring this last time it was 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8... Also cyl 4 somehow also smashes the spark plug gap closed but there's no sign of anything touching it...
Your heads are warping. - use the same material for block AND heads.
You'll be fine.
Brilliant vid keep em rolling 😉
Where does the constant .7854 come from?
Never mind, cylindrical math. I'm good.
Isn't ford more famous for "mid block" beasts?
351 Cleveland, the rare 427 monsters from the 60's ? - (the more you know)
Doesn't ford use block family's
Small and big block more of a chevy thing.
So actually 2JZ is BIG BLOCK engine. Because it has a bigger spacing between the cilinders. And hence a thicker side wall between the cilinders. So it is a BIG block.
I think you should somehow mention the actual geometric formula for the area of a circle or volume of a cylinder that include pi, and why you simplified it, just to minimize confusion, and keep educated people from cringing over the low bar level.
Nothing can out do a big block for all out grunt
🙌🏼
Well first thing is first it's not a goddamn Chevrolet these are Ford's you know like a 385 series
Justin the Ford 385 series of 429 and 460 big block engines clearly have an advantage over the goddamn BB Chevys when it comes to building stroker engines. The Ford block will accept a larger bore. The deck height allows a longer stroke and the cam tunnel is positioned higher in the block which allows more clearance between the cam and stroker rotating assemblies. The bottom end of the block is stronger thanks to thicker pan rails and structural bulkheads. Sure it weighs a few pounds more but the additional weight is in all the right places. Advantage Ford 🏁.
@@danielwilson6665 yes very well aware of flow numbers but what I was referring to his Chevrolet four years have always referred to Big Block small block and ford has always had a series of motor
@@justinchandler7822 … Thanks for clarifying your point. I understand where you’re coming from now. 👍
Fun fact if you get a inline 4 cylinder from the 1960’s out of a dodge you can bore it out so much you can put boat pistons in it 👍
A big block is 2 in bigger everywhere.
2 words! "Bore spacing"!
I feel dumber after listening to this
Look I’m no mechanic however anything over 400 cubic inches is considered big block this is a fact lol you can google it However you can bore out a small block into a big block
so a big block is bigger than a small block. i could never ever have thought about that.
Why would you use a 302 they’re trash lol better off using Chevy motors 350
I can feel the stupid oozing from this statement.
Go play.
A 429 isn’t a real big block get a Chevy 454 or 455 or even a 500
I can save you seven and a half minutes, a small block V8 is a 60 degree V8 and a big block V8 is a 90 degree V8 . . . you're welcome . . .
Except for all the small blocks that are 90 degrees…
back in the 1970's a 60 degree block was a small block and a 90 degree block was a big block (according to Chilton and Car Craft Magazine, Hot Rod, etc. That's how Chevy ended up with a small block 400 and a big block 396, but over the last 50 years it's gotten diluted and now you have some people thinking there's a different definition of small and big block but those people can't ever repeat what the definition is because they don't know, so maybe you're the first to know the alternate definition of a big block and a small block, I would love to hear a denier come up with a definition, so far you haven't been able to define what makes a small block small and what makes a big block big. I'm the only person in this discussion with any definition of it . . . .
@@douglasdobson8110 I can’t think of a 60 degree V8. All V8 I am familiar with are 90 degree blocks, irrespective of displacement, bore spacing, bearing count, or any other potential differentiator between “small block” and “big block”. This includes the flatheads from Ford, 2.0 litre offerings from Fiat, Ferrari, and Lamborghini, the 2.5 litre from Daimler, the 3.9 litre from Triumph, and the all aluminum 215 from Buick. All are 90 degree configurations.
all chevy small blocks are 60 degree and all Chevy big blocks are 90degree, or at least that was the case in the 1970's, people change, things are forgotten over time, but that used to be the identifier for big and small block V8's. Fifty years later here we are and it's not so cut and dried as it used to be@@michaelsolonynko8818
name one American small block that's a 90 degree block? should be easy since you seem to know so many 90 degree small blocks . . . and since you can't think of a single 60 degree block . . . do you even know what I mean by 60 degree and 90 degree?
@@michaelsolonynko8818