Regarding setting the torque on those wire clamps, I would suggest that after you torque them the first time, wiggle/rotate the wires somewhat forcefully and and you'll find that the strands in the wire settle a little (like how the level of Corn Flakes drops if you shake the box a bit from side to side) and you can torque them again. I usually have to do this a couple of times before it's finally fully secure.
@@chargeeverywhere , Wiggling the wires is a common technique called "exercising." I always exercise and retorque repeatedly, until I have two times with no screw movement.
NEC 625.41 125% RULE CONTINOUS DUTY... 40AMPS X1.25=50 AMPS. NEC 625.54 ALL EVS GFCI PROTECTION . #8 AWG THHN 90C GOOD FOR 55 AMPS. TORQUE 75LB------8.8NM YOU WILL BE SAFE . This is for the NIMA 14-50 .
As a retired Electrical Foreman I have these comments: 1. I totally agree with the upgrade to the Hubbell/Bryant receptacle. 2. I totally disagree with the down sizing of the circuit breaker. You stated at the beginning its normal for a EV charger to draw 40-amps for hours. Although you correctly charted the ampacity of your #8 THHN wire based on the terminals temperature rating. Please refer to NEC 210.20(A) it states that the overcurrent protection device rating shall not be less than 125% for a continuous load. ( i.e. 40-amp x 1.25 = 50-amp ) You DON'T load a 40-amp breaker to 40-amps 👎You had the right size breaker before. You should never load a breaker more than 80% ( i.e. 50-amp x .80 = 40-amp )
Good point! But in this specific case, the maximum current for the NEMA 14-50 adapter used by Tesla chargers is 32A X 1.5 = 40 Amp. He is GTG! Please let me know if I'm wrong.
@@rafaelcasalduc5820 you shouldn't have outlets that have higher rating than the breakers - the next person along could install a higher amperage charger and have issues. Breakers should always be the higher rating.
@@SP-wp4ti The NEC specifically lists 50 amp outlets as being okay to install on 40 amp circuits. I think this is because their arent any 40 amp outlets, but you'd probably want to at least label the outlet for the next person.
At the end of the video you said that local electricians will know all the standards and what to use. I'm over here on my 2nd (!) melted NEMA 14-50 outlet because the electricians that installed it didn't use a "commercial" or "industrial" grade outlet. Thanks for helping to spread the word about this issue!
A friend had an electrician install a 30 amp 240 outlet in his basement for some power tools and they used the black + white for hot leads and the red for neutral, no 4th wire ground.
@@schsch2390 No excuse for being lazy with the colors. That's likely all it was though. The red was being used as a ground wire, not neutral. A standard 3 wire 240V outlet/circuit is two hots and a ground. The more common 3-wire outlets is the standard setup for providing power to a basic mechanical device that runs on 240V, such as high voltage power tools. The 4th wire, the neutral, is used to create a circuit/plug that supplies both 120V and 240V to a connected device. This 4 wire dual voltage circuit is required by more advanced devices that use 120V computers or digital interfaces to control their 240V mechanical components (such as a modern clothes dryer with 120V electronics for user interface and programing and 240V heating element and drum spinning motor).
Just tape the ends of the white wire red, or any color but white or green, and tape the ends of the red wire green, double check and retorque the connections, and there you go. 💙 T.E.N.
Did you get it changed to a Hubbell outlet? If so, how has it held up? Ive spoken to electricians and they don't think the issue is because of a cheap outlet but rather because of frequent disconnects which cause the connectors to expand and cause a short.
I've watched a few videos on this subject and you are one of the few who torqued the connectors. My installation was extensive enough that a inspection from the utility was required, and I was impressed the inspector checked the torque on the connections. He mentioned that this was the very point where he fails many installations.
Thanks for putting out the video and starting the conversation. Thanks to the electricians for their advice too. Tesla's wall EVSE (wall charger) only draws 32A, but another unit might try to draw more. Telsa still recommends a 50 amp circuit with 6AWG wire: - Voltage: Single phase, 208-250 Volt AC supply, 60 Hertz - Circuit Breaker: 50 Amp recommended - Operating Current: 32 Amp (maximum continuous current) - Conductors: 6 AWG recommended, Copper Wire Only. Upsize wiring for installations over 150 feet - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter: Not required - Service Disconnect: Not required - Receptacle Recommendation: High quality, industrial grade receptacle
Great information, especially the part about GFCI. One more tip for NEMA 14-50: Spray Deoxit DN5 into the outlet. It's a contact cleaner and lubricant. It will make plugging/unplugging much easier and will prolong the life of the outlet. You can use Deoxit D5, but you have to cut the power before using it.
Thank you for highlighting your mistakes so that we can learn. This knowledge will be extremely relevant in the next 10 years as EV's become more popular. I know a lot of people will attempt to install these outlets themselves to save money. A lot of DIY'ers think you can just torque the wires by feel with a regular screw driver like you can get away with for 15A receptacles for example.
Good video, thanks. I'm glad you covered proper torquing of fasteners. This is something that for MOST residential components is not required and as such many of us do-it-yourselvers don't know about.
Hi Josh, Thank you for making this wonderful video outlining the issues with outlet capacity, wire size torque values and installation process. Excellent quality and content. Also your viewers comments are excellent and helpful.
Regarding the Hubbell vs Bryant debate in the comments, they are identical. Neither are marked 75C on the actual device, so both have to be used as 60C rated receptacles, meaning the conductors feeding them have to be rated using the 60C column. Both say they have a maximum continuous operating temp of 75C in the spec PDF, but this is not the same as being rated for 75C. The manual that comes with both says that the conductor used must be rated in accordance with the 60C column. I just looked at my Hubbell manual, box, and receptacle as well as researched thoroughly online. If the Leviton is rated for 75C, that might be part of why they burn out so often. If they are being installed with 8 gauge wire, they are going to generate more heat, as the 6 gauge wire acts as a heat sink. Just thought I'd clear up any misinfo. The Hubbell and Bryant are both manufactured with superior quality to the Leviton and most other 50A receptacles. This does not mean they can use lighter gauge wire. In order to be a true 50A general use outlet, both will require 6 gauge copper wire and cannot use aluminum. There are exceptions for dedicated receptacles used for a single device such as a welder, but that's a more complex topic.
@@Tom-og7fi Noun: a device or substance for absorbing excessive or unwanted heat. Yes, more wire mass acts as a larger heat sink. Less resistance also means less heat generated. More contact at the connections also means less resistance and better heat transfer. In short, larger wire means less heat and more heat dissipation.
@802Garage I know exactly what a heat sink is junior. In the real world of qualified electrical workers we do not use bigger wire for a heat sink. If you need bigger wire it is because you have a need for more ampacity. If everything is correct for the application and you have heating problems then you have connection issues.
@@Tom-og7fi I didn't say that's WHY you use it, I said it's an effect it has. Jeez man. As in, one factor which could contribute to not burning out receptacles like the Leviton. If it is heating at the contacts to the plug for example, then the wire will act as a heat sink. Wow big time logic. Exactly what you said and I said in the first place. Thanks for your contribution by repeating what I already said in a condescending way.
@802Garage Do you do electrical work for a living. What you are saying is complete BS. Do you know what happens to copper when it gets hot. If you have heating issues, you have a poor installation or a poor connection or drawing more current than the device is continuously rated for. The 80 percent rule is applied to all electrical equipment, not just breakers. This crap of having bigger conductors to act as a heat sink is misinformation period. Bigger wire will not fix the problem.
Hey Josh, I personally liked this video and it appears your new EV charging setup is safe. I read though several comments....holy crap, people really like to voice their opinion.... Anyway, thanks for doing this video, producing instructional videos are a ton of work, so thanks.
It is a good practice with stranded wire to use bootlace ferrules on screw clamp type devices. It ensures better connections as the stranded wire will separate with the screw type connection.
A few years ago while at an IAEI continuing education class they told us that UL labs had samples of receptacles & can't remember if it included switches from all around the country. Approximately only 30 yo 40% were toquered properly. Remainder were close in either not toquered enough or too much. Was told excessive torque was just as bad as insufficient torque. Of the approximately 100 electricians at the class less then 10% even owned a torque wrench or torque driver.
Slight correction, those are poles not phases in your house. The poles are 240v across them with neutral tapped from the middle of the single phase transformer. Everything is on the same sinewave.
This is true, but the two "poles" (red & black) are 180 degrees out of phase from each other vs 3-phase power where they are 120 degrees out of phase from each other.
@@tomnorman5461 When voltage is measured across them, you get a single sine wave of 240v at 60hz. You could invert the polarity to achieve another sine wave 180 degrees out of phase. If you took a measurement with respect to ground at either pole you would get a very small voltage on the lower leg but but it would still be the same phase. If you looked at the top pole and neutral with respect to the lower leg, again your measurements would all be the same phase. The only way I can think to achieve 180 degrees out of phase is to use the neutral to the lower leg but wire the polarity backwards. But you would have two 120v signals 180 degrees out of phase with each other. I can’t think of any appliance or motor that wants that. Instead they want the voltage taken with respect to the lower pole to achieve 240v peak to peak.
@@tomnorman5461 When you add a sine wave of a certain phase (x) to another sine wave *of the same phase* (y) the sum is simply x + y = new voltage. In this case, each wave is 120 volts. So adding both poles together (think of it as putting them in "series") gives you 240 volts. The 120 volt outlets in your house only use one pole, so 120 volts. But @GROGU123 is correct: they are *NOT* 180 degrees out of phase. Your house has one sine wave (one phase) power running into it.
@@tomnorman5461You are correct, calling it two phases violates only tradition, it is not factually wrong. Electricians resist calling it two phases because 1) the two phases are derived from a single phase source, 2) there was a now obsolete system called two phase with the phases 90 degrees apart, 3) the loads are all single phase, and 4) a 180 degree phase shift is also a simple polarity reversal, so depending on how you analyze the circuit, you can miss the second phase.
@@david672orford Correct. I've drawn a transformer secondary, putting in the center tap, and ask "how does the center tap achieve *polarity* reversal? Crickets, usually.
If you have installed these high current outlets before, when you finally use a proper torque device you will realize you were probably not torquing these terminals enough in the past. As commenters have stated, torque, wiggle the wire and torque again is a good practice. Regular household 20A circuits do not have the torque worries that these high current circuits require. Additionally, choosing a high quality receptacle is also important. This outlet will have many plug-in and plug-out cycles. Great info in this video.
Good points. EV charger installs is all that I do now and getting to the point of only doing hardwire installs. My latest outlet, the only commercial grade I could find was a Hubbell at $164. Also needed to run the unused neutral, add another $35. Right now my AHJ does not require a gfci breaker but will in the future, add another $100.
His link in the description to Grainger has a $48 rebrand version of the Bryant 14-50R (exactly the same). The name brand Bryant on Grainger is $213. They have the same two options for 6-50R.
I just had an outlet installation on Friday. Went to Grainger and got a Bryant 9450 for $48 and change. The Hubbell was $213. Looked to be a real Bryant but still a pain to install. @@mbrick
Can you please provide a list of parts for installing a 220 from the basement (residential) to the garage a run of about 40-50feet. Which would be the most safe. Just got a EV retired don't plan on driving it all that much. I'm more of a V8 guy but the lease deal was good. Just concerned about most is safety. Thank u
@@TJOLLYRANCHER If you are concerned about safety, the best thing is to get a licensed electrician to do the work and make sure a permit is pulled and work inspected. I cannot recommend this as a DIY project. Also, without seeing the site, there are too many variables to provide a materials list. If a Tesla, you can contact Smart Charge America, if a non-tesla, Qmerit and if you buy the charger from Best Buy, they all can put you in contact with certified installers.
Super. ALWAYS use the expensive name brand 50 ampere commercial receptacle, a metal well anchored 4/0 box and metal (2 kinds, one surface mount, one recessed mount.) cover plate, and a 50 ampere GFCI breaker, or the prefabricated GFCI outlet box and a standard 50 ampere breaker. Do use at least 6/3g or four six gauge copper wires (Larger is OK, especially for long runs.) if you don't know your areas electrical codes. (Note: THHN 6 gauge wire in conduit can have an 8 gauge ground, some 6/3g has an 8 gauge ground, and some codes allow the ground to be one or two gauges smaller than the conductors.) Make sure that you have four wires into your outlet or prefab box, even if it only requires three. (Old school.) ALWAYS add mineral oil or oxidation prevention grease to ALL connections and to the breaker, (ALL of the terminals or connections, including the breaker and plug prongs.) and always wiggle (Hard) the wires to the connections and retorque the fasteners at least twice. Think about putting a disconnection device beside the outlet so that you can turn the power off when you plug in or remove the plug, and lastly, get one of those rubber door mats and put it below the outlet. (And breaker box.) I have had to repair the smoldering remains of car charging outlets for years now, and sometimes it was a customer that installed it, but many times it was a licensed electrician who actually did a fine job but didn't know that a standard 14-50 receptacle from your local hardware store was inadequate for the job. (Mostly due to being plugged in and out again, while a stove outlet remains connected.) These procedures and precautions allow this Sparky to sleep very well at night. Stay safe. 💙 T.E.N.
I think the people for whom it melts likely unplug it too often.. Just like a regular outlet after a bunch of plugging and unplugging cycles, you lose grip. I've seen the same issue with people plugging in electric heaters (who also pull a lot of power over long periods) into loose outlets causing melting and burning. With the $11 outlet you likely need to be replacing it on a annual basis IF you unplug it often.
For our Tesla model Y we had an electrician install the NEMA 14-50 outlet but it was cheap and overheated. Teslas deal with this by lowering the charging current. Looking at the cost of a good 14-50 and the GFI breaker I plunked down the $400 for the dedicated wall charger.
I test my outlet, charger, and cord during charging operations (hourly) in the summer in Phoenix, AZ, with a laser thermometer. The highest temperature at the receptacle was 115 degrees, the charger is generally 128 degrees, and the cord 113 degrees. The highest ambient temperature of the garage I've seen was 117 degrees (I didn't charge that day). The book says don't charge when the temperature exceeds 122 degrees. We own a Nissan Ariya, which has a built-in cooler for the battery, which does come on intermittently during charging during the summer but not in the winter.
When I installed my outlet, I used Amp/Tyco wire ferrules with Deoxit L260Dcp conductive grease. The wire ferrules were crimped to the same shape as the outlets connection point "diamond shape on point" this method kept the wire consolidated and allowed even pressure when the allen bolt was tightened.
It originally was a 14-50 outlet with the tesla Mobil charger which only charges at a max 32 amps. I put the larger wire in and breaker knowing I would probably upgrade later which I did, I installed a Tesla wall charger which charges up to 48 amps max but you can control how many amps flow with the Tesla app. You can turn it down to 15 amps or up to 48 amps or anything in between. I turn it down just so its not pulling a ton of current when its really not needed. If I get home and will not leave till the next day which is more then 12 or so hours away typically, turning it down to 20 or 25 amps makes it charge over about a 5 to 8 hours window depending on how depleted the battery is that day. Charging at 48 amps is not needed so I don't do it. The wall charger recommends 6 gouge wire and a 60 amp breaker because overkill its a good thing. Less heat in a larger wire when pulling max amps.
Some states seem to adding exceptions to the GFCI requirement. I know in Massachusetts I was reading the bill adopting the 2023 NEC and they added bit saying in circuits with one outlet meant for a single device you can forgo the GFCI if they are known to interfere.
I repurposed a 50 amp GFCI line from a former hot tub to power my 30 amp Enel X Juice Box. I replace the GFCI breaker with a regular one because the instructions said I should, but for fun I used the GFCI breaker for 1 week to see if it caused any issues. 1 rain storm and 1 snow storm happened that week (go figure, December in central PA). The outlet is in a sealed, locked box. I had no issues, but changed the breaker anyway.I have never unplugged it, but without a GFCI on an outdoor outlet, you can bet I'll be shutting off the breaker if I ever do unplug it.
Yup, Stuff like that pisses me off. Nothing like a good only thermal trip breaker. The appliance manufactures have their own protections and design to standard trip breakers
@@abrahammc2125 The GFCI protected outlets have nothing to do with the protection of appliances and everything to do with personnel protection. The code has no idea what you have plugged into that fridge / freezer outlet. And, for years the model code exempted single outlets from the GFCI requirements. Not a duplex outlet but a single 120 volt outlet.
@@denali9449 I am aware, but you are talking to someone who is aware of the risks. I do not live my life according to the code book for "safety". Rich people do not live by some set standard, they always live custom. I am no different.
@@abrahammc2125 If you actually believe that appliance manufacturer's build in some kind of GFCI protection to trip a standard breaker then you deserve what you get. Hopefully all your corded power tools are of the double insulated type and you never have an issue.
Very good video and a follow up to your original video. I just ordered the same Bryant outlet from Grainger and will be doing the install soon. I am in CA, my house is new and the contractor installed a breaker for the EV charger. Thank you for posting.
I was a Ford tech. Learned some stuff about residential charging from them. One of the first things I was shown was burnt houses and cars and garages. Not necessarily because the tech did it wrong. But because this is an emerging technology. I don’t ever install NEMA plugs for EV chargers at all. And honestly, that technology is already outdated in my opinion. I only install the Tesla Gen 3 charger. Tesla has been doing it longer has made more mistakes and learned from them. I looked at the Rivian chargers too, and they are not great wouldn’t take on the liability myself. But Tesla has made a universal charger for the GEN three I recommend it over the Rivian truck charger any day.
For all the problems you mentioned at the beginning I hard wired my Tesla Wall Connector with NO GFCI, I don't trust them for this application and went ahead and used 6 AWG. See the Sandy Munroe segment on the dangers of 14-50 receptacles, they melt, go ahead and do the job right the first time with a wall connector.
Forget the outlet for a dedicated charger. Hard wire it. Every termination point is an added potential point of failure. Plus you'll save money on additional parts you don't need
One thing I would note is that the Ambient Temperature Correction factors in NEC does not get enough attention and tests have shown the significance of conductor heat during sustained high current periods. I would argue this also applies to the receptacle as well. Consider that over the last 10 years the average high temperature in 22 of the 50 states is over 87F, then at the very least a correction factor of .91 should be applied in addition to the continues current draw derating of 125%. This would mean for a load of 40 amps the circuit would need to be sized to support 55 amps. Inversely if you consider the LIMFAC of the NEMA 14-50 being 50 AMP max, then no more than 36 Amps of load should be placed on that circuit. Once ambient temperature goes up that max current load drops to 32 Amps or lower. One other potential recommendation for NEC updates is to also derate an EV specific circuit by 130% instead of 125% considering the potential for much longer sustained current draw.
You are correct, chargers come in 32amp and 48amp not 50amp. So 32amp charger still uses 50amp or 40amp recep. and wire good for at least 40amps. 48amp charger @125% is 60, so 6awg wire good for 65amps, 60amp breaker, and harwired.
I applaud you for trying to correct your mistakes. 1. the NEC 110.14C does state that circuits under a 100 amps in a dwelling unit shall use the 60° column. You saying that even with 90° wire and a 75° breaker, you kinda met code was in error. 2. The basic 14 -50 plug is a non continuous duty, which is rated for less than 3 hours use at a time.. EV charging requires a heavy duty, continuous duty rated receptacle. Which is for more than 3 hours use, as per code. 3. That 14-50 was not originally for EV or the stove(10-50R on 40amp breaker was stove). 14-50R was designed for RV's and they are so readily available EV's found it easier to use. Even though the EV doesn't need the neutral. When I consulted with Tesla. The 6-50R was proper for EV use, but not widely used. It's easier for a customer to put in a 14 -50R and have a multi-use for it. 4. Please remember, there are several states around the country that homeowners are not allowed to do their own electrical work, Texas being one. Keep up the videos. We all learn somehow.
False. You can do your own electrical work in Texas. Mine passed inspection even, when I remodeled a house I used to own down to the studs. Rewired the whole house.
Very good information presented, but please ALWAYS verify that the circuit is dead at the receptacle even though the breaker is turned off. Turning off the wrong breaker happens more often than you think! I am a Master Electrician..........don't ask me how I know.
It's not true that those outlets aren't designed for continuous 50A power draw. They are or else they wouldn't have gotten the UL approval. But that means that the install needs to be done 100% correctly. I have found that most connector outlets overheat because the screws weren't tightened properly or the wrong wire was used. A good way to tell if you have a problem is to feel the connector under a full load. If it's getting hot, there is a problem. The thing about daily charging is that you might be connecting and disconnecting every day and some cheap connectors start to wear out after too many connections and disconnections. That's probably why more EV outlets melt down. You plug the dryer in once and the plug stays put until the dryer dies and is replaced. And, yes, you can solve that problem by going with a better connector.
Even with all the correct sizing, quality product, proper methods there is still some heating that occurs at the receptacle/plug interface, usually during summer months. Some EV modules detect this and disconnect when it occurs. I lowered charging max from 40 to 32amps to correct/protect from unexpected interrupted charge cycle duration.
GFCI is required for licensed/commercial or permit work under the new 2020 NEC code, not typically DIY. Also, many places have not adopted the 2020 code and some have exceptions to it for EVs… so you be grandfathered in if that ever changed… just like any professional following the earlier code.
@@NA-xm7wj I have not seen GFCI NEMA 14-50 receptacles but the way the NEC requirement is written you could use either. I can only find GFCI breakers with the pigtail but it’s possible the code will create enough demand that we will see GFCI NEMA 14-50 receptacles in the future.
@@emmettturner9452 ok cool. That’s what I thought you meant but wasn’t sure. Yeah it would probably be good to have a gfci right at the receptical. Thanks
@@emmettturner9452 yeah hopefully. I’m considering putting in the wiring fir ev’s cuz I think I’m selling the house next year and I hear having it wired already is a plus to buyers that either has electric car or wants to buy one. Hell I want one too but haven’t found the one fir me yet
THANKS. ... might I suggest, when using your INITIAL outlet --- to utilize FERRULES on your Stranded Wires before installing them on a screw type termination ? COOP ...
Never knew installing 14-50 outlet had so many considerations. When talking about such a long charge, how does all of this affect Tesla owners who plug their mobile connector into a wall outlet? Charge times can go from 8-30 hours. Thanks for the video!
Hubbell products have always been top $$$, I bought a Hubbell NEMA 14-30P for my lathe in 2016 and it was $55 at the time. One thing that i discovered later is that in the larger sizes, the twist-lock versions, _e.g._ an L14-30P, are considerably cheaper.
Man, you sure got all the Electrician wound up, love the comment section. That's were truth is found if you have common sense IMHO. Kinda nice to see the Electric Vehicles run the power bill up at HOME!
You should always test for voltage before working on a circuit.... never assume it is dead because it could have been mislabeled, etc. and could be deadly.
I found out through Technology Connections' YT vid on EVSEs that part of the standard "connection" sequence is the system checking the grounding. The only way I can conceive of that happening is if the EVSE or the vehicle tries to send SOME current down the ground connection. I had a Siemens breaker which would trip maybe 2/3 of the time when I would plug in my hybrid, either immediately or when I heard the click of one of the contactors closing. I couldn't locate a new Siemens in my area, so I replaced it with a Square D, and I haven't had much trouble with it. This plug-in car is only about 4 weeks "new to me", whereas the Siemens had been installed for a few years. I'm guessing the Siemens is engineered to be more sensitive...or maybe after so much time and a trip now and then, it has gone defective. Either way, I've only had one nuisance trip of the Square D for a couple of weeks, and that wasn't even at charge initation time, it was sometime in the middle of the night.
Sometimes I can’t explain something very well but it has to with the amount of current you can put through a wire. Under one circumstance you can put say 20 amps through a number 12 wire, another only 10 or 12 amps without overheating. One of the circumstance is the ambient air temperature but also if there is anything else heating the conduit such as sunlight exposure or whether there are a whole mess of wires in a small conduit, all carrying a lot of amps. I’ve been fooling around with car alternators lately and on the rotor coil, it does not take that many amps for the coil to overheat if it has been running a long time. The wire in an electromagnet or transformer is all packed together and thus harder for the heat to escape. I think sometimes you got to use your own head to determine what wire size you should and not just go by what someone else says.
It's not a matter of "going by what someone else says". There are standards and if you follow them, you greatly reduce the chance of problems. One other factor you didn't mention is length of wire. If you have a long wire run, standards are set for when you need to upsize as well.
@@Jolajo-ms3cl He gets fractions of a penny per view on his video.I bill around $75/hr when I do service calls to fix issues from people that watch guys like this.Learn to math.
Where I live getting a licensed electrician can take a month or two. Guys like him keep the lights on when electricians are to lazy to pick up a phone.
Leviton has an industrial EV Rated 14-50R now as well. Part number is 1450R. It looks very much like the Hubbell/Bryant. I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to open it up to see the insides.
I have a garage that was converted into a large spare bedroom with regular 110 outlets, it has a window right out in front of the driveway, which for me makes sense with the right AC window kit and 3.5 '' duct tube, I could see a regular 240 chord slide inside of out to the electric car's charge port, once I upgrade the 110 outlet into a 240 Volut outlet: But what am I missing? What major advantage am I losing by not just installing a dedicated outdoor Level 2 (station/stand) as I've seen others do, when they have no garage like myself ?
having multiple fuses in a breaker box and preventing turning off the wrong breaker it is best before disassembling the outlet is to test/check if any voltage from the 14-50 outlet. Looking at your wire it looks like you're using a #8 and should be a #6 AWG for the 50amp circuit.
Get an EV rated outlet. Leviton, Hubble, Pass and Seymore etc all sell these. They are $40-60. in addition if this is installed outside it will need to be a weather resistant version of this, which is about $10 or so more. If the outlet is in a garage, a shed or outside it must be on a 250A GFCI breaker. It also must be in an extra duty waterproof box if installed outside.
Here is the deal. If you go to Grainger’s site, that number for the Bryant references a 14-30R. Where did you get the face plate? Didn’t see that there.
Check with Grainger. I had the same issue and called to confirm the actual product being sold. At the time of my call, the product description was wrong as it was referencing a 14-30 instead of 14-50. For wall plate, look into Leviton S701 as the opening is larger to match the Bryant.
I just added six gauge ALL COPPER four wire my main in breaker box ….42 feet to the outlet and it’s Hubbell 14/50 $78.00, little more money up front…a lot less money than intheREAR..if you have a fire!!!! Jut do it right. Absolutely torque and re torque
The ones on Lowes/HD are listed as industrial grade and have a 4.9 rating. Should be fine if you're using the correct gauge of wire. Plus, I can only charge at 32a anyway.
The required size and amp capacity of the receptacle is determined by the required input of the charger. The charger is rectifying the household AC power to DC and controlling the battery charging voltage to maintain the desired rate of charge and amount of charge. All effects the needed input current (amps). The input capacity doesn't do the controlling unless you count, tripping the breaker 😊
I found when replacing nema 14-50 outlets they're all rated to carry 50 amps! The Hubble's and Bryant's will burn too if they're smashed into a shallow electrical box! All the conductors need to be completely recessed into the terminals no frayed wires!
What causes them to burn is not necessarily the load, but poor contact with the plug. I've seen this hundreds of times -- RV parks, and race tracks. (and as it would happen, a Tesla did set one on fire at Road Atlanta a few years ago. We still give him grief about that.) The AC in my RV cooked one of the plugs on one of our 8AWG extension cords because they have shit contacts in them.)
Sorry, but there is a seperate nec section for car chargers, evse equipment, that in the 2017 or earlier code required gfci protection for car charging recepticles. Please review article 625, specifically 625.54. Article 210.8 now requires (nec 2020) gfci protection for garage recepticles up to 250 volts be gcfi protected.
Nice presentation of the corrections. Homeowners need to know the potential problems with new technology. The 2017 NEC does require GFCI for EV receptacles. There was an update in December 2016. Some books have it some do not. Also just like the cheaper receptacles sometimes melt, the same could happen at the circuit breaker box. As you noted these can run 40 or more amps for 6 hours or more. Panels cannot handle the heavy load. Again nice presentation.
One more thing the evse should be plugged into the 14-50 outlet and left there if you have a Hubble or Bryant outlet those terminals are a little more heavy duty when people keep plugging and unplugging that's the main cause of the problem! I've been charging two Chevrolet bolts at the same time on two different circuits with Menard brand nema 14-50 after a year there is no sign of burning my two evse stay plugged in!
Not in my experience. I have unplugged my charger maybe 4 times in 2 years. With a Leviton 14-50 I was getting high temperature warnings after 1 year. I retorqued the screws and 6 months later the internal blades were relaxed enough to physically buzz when inspected with a contact stethoscope. I reduced the charge current to 70% of maximum until I could replace it with a Bryant. No more overheating or buzzing. I think it’s a metallurgy issue.
Don't have an electric car but I want one eventually. I installed the 50amp already used 6ga wire also since 8ga is the min and I don't want the bear minimum. I will however be buying that industrial 50amp, I also noticed the connections screws weren't very effective. Does the metal face plate fit the new outlet or did you buy a different one?
Good video. Have a question..... My home has only WHITE, BLACK, and ground, but no RED wire. So my question is, how would I wire the plug (both ends) without a RED wire. Was thinking of running a jumper from where the black wire goes into the back of the plugs to where the red goes.
Yes, it can be. Breaker panels typically use hex socket screws on large, say 6 gauge stranded wire for incoming power and power to sub panels if applicable. The individual breakers are usually 15, 20, or 30 amp and solid wire should be used, 14, 12, 10 gauge respectively. 8 gauge and heavier will be stranded. Since solid wire can't separate, it makes a big difference, so screw type fasteners are appropriate.
You forgot about derating for continuous duty. Considering that you expect the charging to last 3 hours or more, you have to size the wire for 125% of the expected draw. If it's 40 amps, then the wire needs to be sized for 50 amps in addition to any other derating. With all the derating, you need a 4awg conductor to feed the outlet even though you put a 40 amp breaker on the circuit.
Yes, you are correct. The 125% derate is handled by the EVSE and/or car as home/garage wiring is sized for the circuit. In other words, on a 40 Amp circuit with 8 AWG your EVSE should draw a maximum of 32 A. All EVSEs are configured in this way or set like this during the install.
@@justRome1 there's a listed temperature rating for the terminals on the device. If you can't find it in the paperwork that comes with the device, you can look up the spec sheet or contact the manufacturer. Alternately, most terminals, if the listing isn't given, should be considered as being rated for 70°F. The NEC has a wire ampacity and size chart and different insulations fall under different temperature ratings. You always size the wire according to whether the terminal or the wire has the lower temperature rating.
@@chargeeverywhere thanks for looking out on this video you save me from a mistake for sure because I have the same setup. I switched from 50amp to a 40amp. Now. I need to buy a torque wrench. They have more expensive Bryant receptacles out now that do support the 75c. Many RUclips videos say the Bryant And Hubble receptacles are the same but you have to compare the documentation to determine that.
If you are unplugging and plugging in the charger plug, you need to install a permanent charger. You are just asking for a fire eventually. A better outlet will just last longer, but eventually it will fail.
It isn't wise to run #8 for EV at 40amps, I wouldn't do it for even a wall mounted charging unit. I'm sure some would because people usually want to go with the least expensive material costs. But 30 amps is the max circuit breaker I would use for #8 when it comes to EV charging. I 've seen and replaced at least 4 charging units catch fire because whoever installed them wasn't qualified. And guess what wire size they used? .... #8! The 90 degree column is primarily meant for conductor derating, correction, sizing, as most terminations are rated at 75 degrees. Don't just pick a wire and assume the ampacity in the column though because there's other factors to consider. What we're concerned about with electrical systems is HEAT. Electricity generates heat, improperly sized conductors can cause fire or other hazards. I hate when non electricians give advice and "how to..." on things they really shouldn't...
@sanjapkoki I used the large metal box that was deep and put the extended metal faceplate on that fits the Hubbell 14-50. 3/4 conduit feeds it, fit everything fine. I think the key is to make sure you have this larger set up with the extended face so it all fits easily and safely.
The breaker is to protect the cable (from your breaker box - load center - to your outlet). So if you have an appliance that is tripping the breaker DO NOT just install a bigger breaker! You need to have an entire new cable run for the appliance which can handle the greater load. This is important: do it wrong and you will burn down your house. Best to hire an electrician & have the peace of mind.
I was looking at the same table and could not find any reference on the table for romex or nm-b cable (non-metallic sheathed cable). It is not clear which column applies to nm-b cable. Since 6/3 cable is rated for 55 amps, I would assume that it is the TW cable type (since UF likely is for underground cabling).
Romex or NM-B now is a cable(assembly of conductors). The conductors in these cables are currently made utilizing THHN conductors which are rated at 90C. But as he stated in the video, you can not use the 90C column because of termination rating of the breaker and the device(receptacle). Breakers are 60/75C rated since mid to late 1980’s. Most of the cheap receptacles are only rated at 60C, so you must use the 60C column. The Hubble is rated 75C so can use the 75C column. The Bryant is 60C. Hope this helps you! Kevin
@@KevinCoop1 There is also the requirement in the NEC 334.80 to use the 60C rating of NM and NMC cable. This permits derating for temp and fill from the 90C column, but needs to be in compliance with the 60C column for final sizing. NM-B does not seem to be directly mentioned in the NEC, but is assumed to come under 334.80 and 334.112. So using a cable [such as NM-B] starts one off from a restriction to 60C whereas using a conduit allows the starting reference to be the 90C column if using THHN/THWN, then derating as per the receptacle and breaker 60 or 70C rating. Gets kinda complex after a while.
The nema standard 14-50 is that the outlet is rated for 50 amps and makes a standard configuration for the prongs that are rated for the load universally. It will give you 50 amps, however NEC states under a continuous load the wiring and outlets MUST be Derated to 50% of their rating and a continuous load is described as any load lasting 3 hr or more. So everything needs to be increased in size. Electric cars are an issue, I recommend a charging station whenever possible. I don't own a EV But I am a Master electrician I always believed in upsizing wiring, it makes for a better install and adds a safety factor. ****Remember electrical work is NOT A HOBBY Hire a Licensed electrician**** installing these things and not knowing codes can burn your home down. I've seen it.
If your charger has it’s own GFI but code requires one in the outlet circuit, you may be able to disable/bypass the one in the charger. If it’s not clear in the charger instructions I would contact the manufacturer.
One thing nobody talks about, is that the circuit breaker should be switched off whenever one plugs and unplugs the charger. These outlets are not meant to be used like regular 15-20A outlets that we have throughout the house. This avoids arcing when plugging in and development of carbon that can be a source of problems later.
You will need three conductors - black, red, and white and one ground - green. For runs through conduit, individual stranded conductors should be used, but in-wall wiring could use 6 AWG Romex. An alternative is to get a NEMA 6-50 outlet and EVSE with this plug - although less common. The 6-50 only requires two conductors (black and red) and a ground. I haven’t seen a 240V charger that requires the neutral. Good luck!
@@chargeeverywhere ... you make a valid point, but NEC doesn't allow the use of an outlet without a full complement of wires. IOW, if you have 4 pins / prongs in the outlet you must have 4 wires. If you hardwire to an EV charger you can meet the needs with only 3 wire cable. (no neutral) The difference in wire cost isn't enough to NOT do it correctly and future-proof the job.
@@JM-iz3fr ... there's' the catch 22 on code. If your area is using the 2020 NEC you are supposed to have GFCI for the receptacle. Rumor has it that some car chargers have the GFCI built in, which will cause random trips. NEC makes no provision for skipping the GFCI other than hardwiring the charger. My suggestion would be to research your charger and talk with your local building inspector.
There are several overlapping and seemingly contradictory Electrical codes covering garages. These will either add or retract from the Amps or equipment requirements. I listed a few that apply to the video I saw. Continuously operating equipment: something that will operate for more than 3 hours. A dedicated circuit: 1 circuit breaker, 1 wire run to one outlet. Also, garages normally require a GFCI, but not if a dedicated piece of equipment was used like a freezer or a charging station used solely for your car. As a master electrician, I can honestly say, the electrical code can be put on one page, the other 999 pages are basically exceptions. According to the electrical code, you are running a piece of equipment that is continuously running, on a dedicated circuit that is for one piece of equipment. These things are additive to your base calculations of amperage draw, that's why the outlets are melting. The outlet is the weak link in the video. Next, the insulation on the wire will start to weaken and crack. It's a safe practice that if you're not sure, just go to a higher level: use a 60 amp breaker, 6 gauge wire, etc. These codes are there to prevent the circuit components from overheating and damaging the insulation, NOT to make sure the copper strands can handle the electrical current.
For an EV charger they usually only use L1, L2 and ground. If I did not have an outlet already I would just get a hard wired level 2 charger, pull 4 gage THNN in conduit and use a 60 amp breaker.
Every manufacturer rails against GFCI. I've seen plenty of evidence that sequential gfci protection does not cause trips. If you're not leaking current, you can't trip a gfci. I did install all AFCI/GFCI breakers for my Electrical Expansion project, Computer room on dedicated circuit, to be extra cautious. More protection is better.
I have issue with ChargePoint CPH50 charger with Nema 14-50 Industrial Grade GFCI Plug outlet. No issue when it’s charging. My circuit breaker randomly shuts off when it is not charging or unplugged from car charger port. Does anyone else had such issue ? If charger is hardwired instead of Nema14-50 , will that solve this issue?
Regarding setting the torque on those wire clamps, I would suggest that after you torque them the first time, wiggle/rotate the wires somewhat forcefully and and you'll find that the strands in the wire settle a little (like how the level of Corn Flakes drops if you shake the box a bit from side to side) and you can torque them again. I usually have to do this a couple of times before it's finally fully secure.
Thanks. This is an excellent point!
With 75 inch pounds, I doubt it's a problem. That is a LOT of force.
It is a fair amount. The yoke-style wire clamps hold the wire very nicely too. Much better than a screw scrunched down on top.
@@chargeeverywhere , Wiggling the wires is a common technique called "exercising." I always exercise and retorque repeatedly, until I have two times with no screw movement.
NEC 625.41 125% RULE CONTINOUS DUTY...
40AMPS X1.25=50 AMPS.
NEC 625.54 ALL EVS GFCI PROTECTION .
#8 AWG THHN 90C GOOD FOR 55 AMPS.
TORQUE 75LB------8.8NM YOU WILL BE SAFE . This is for the NIMA 14-50 .
As a retired Electrical Foreman I have these comments: 1. I totally agree with the upgrade to the Hubbell/Bryant receptacle. 2. I totally disagree with the down sizing of the circuit breaker. You stated at the beginning its normal for a EV charger to draw 40-amps for hours. Although you correctly charted the ampacity of your #8 THHN wire based on the terminals temperature rating. Please refer to NEC 210.20(A) it states that the overcurrent protection device rating shall not be less than 125% for a continuous load. ( i.e. 40-amp x 1.25 = 50-amp ) You DON'T load a 40-amp breaker to 40-amps 👎You had the right size breaker before. You should never load a breaker more than 80% ( i.e. 50-amp x .80 = 40-amp )
Good point! But in this specific case, the maximum current for the NEMA 14-50 adapter used by Tesla chargers is 32A X 1.5 = 40 Amp. He is GTG! Please let me know if I'm wrong.
@@rafaelcasalduc5820 I think you meant 32 x 1.25 = 40 amp
Yessir you got it. I do service and number one mistake the handy man makes is undersized circuit. I’ve seen the EV charger melted…
@@rafaelcasalduc5820 you shouldn't have outlets that have higher rating than the breakers - the next person along could install a higher amperage charger and have issues. Breakers should always be the higher rating.
@@SP-wp4ti The NEC specifically lists 50 amp outlets as being okay to install on 40 amp circuits. I think this is because their arent any 40 amp outlets, but you'd probably want to at least label the outlet for the next person.
At the end of the video you said that local electricians will know all the standards and what to use. I'm over here on my 2nd (!) melted NEMA 14-50 outlet because the electricians that installed it didn't use a "commercial" or "industrial" grade outlet. Thanks for helping to spread the word about this issue!
A friend had an electrician install a 30 amp 240 outlet in his basement for some power tools and they used the black + white for hot leads and the red for neutral, no 4th wire ground.
@@schsch2390 must be a shotty handyman and not even an electrician is mess that one up...
@@schsch2390 No excuse for being lazy with the colors. That's likely all it was though. The red was being used as a ground wire, not neutral. A standard 3 wire 240V outlet/circuit is two hots and a ground. The more common 3-wire outlets is the standard setup for providing power to a basic mechanical device that runs on 240V, such as high voltage power tools. The 4th wire, the neutral, is used to create a circuit/plug that supplies both 120V and 240V to a connected device. This 4 wire dual voltage circuit is required by more advanced devices that use 120V computers or digital interfaces to control their 240V mechanical components (such as a modern clothes dryer with 120V electronics for user interface and programing and 240V heating element and drum spinning motor).
Just tape the ends of the white wire red, or any color but white or green, and tape the ends of the red wire green, double check and retorque the connections, and there you go. 💙 T.E.N.
Did you get it changed to a Hubbell outlet? If so, how has it held up? Ive spoken to electricians and they don't think the issue is because of a cheap outlet but rather because of frequent disconnects which cause the connectors to expand and cause a short.
I've watched a few videos on this subject and you are one of the few who torqued the connectors. My installation was extensive enough that a inspection from the utility was required, and I was impressed the inspector checked the torque on the connections. He mentioned that this was the very point where he fails many installations.
Thanks for putting out the video and starting the conversation. Thanks to the electricians for their advice too. Tesla's wall EVSE (wall charger) only draws 32A, but another unit might try to draw more. Telsa still recommends a 50 amp circuit with 6AWG wire:
- Voltage: Single phase, 208-250 Volt AC supply, 60 Hertz
- Circuit Breaker: 50 Amp recommended
- Operating Current: 32 Amp (maximum continuous current)
- Conductors: 6 AWG recommended, Copper Wire Only. Upsize wiring for installations over 150 feet
- Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter: Not required
- Service Disconnect: Not required
- Receptacle Recommendation: High quality, industrial grade receptacle
Tesla wall charger can draw 40A - just like most (all?) of their cars since 2020. Their mobile charger max is 32A
There's 4 categories of chargers
1 (115 20 amp)
2 (220 80 amp)
3 (480 300 amp)
4 (1 mega 1200 amp) for the truck stop chargers when they come out
Great information, especially the part about GFCI. One more tip for NEMA 14-50: Spray Deoxit DN5 into the outlet. It's a contact cleaner and lubricant. It will make plugging/unplugging much easier and will prolong the life of the outlet. You can use Deoxit D5, but you have to cut the power before using it.
A lube is good idea as these connectors not rated for constant plug/ unplug use ordinarily.
Thank you for highlighting your mistakes so that we can learn. This knowledge will be extremely relevant in the next 10 years as EV's become more popular. I know a lot of people will attempt to install these outlets themselves to save money.
A lot of DIY'ers think you can just torque the wires by feel with a regular screw driver like you can get away with for 15A receptacles for example.
Thanks for sharing this mistakes video. “It’s good to learn from your mistakes, but it’s even better to learn from someone else’s mistakes!”
Good video, thanks. I'm glad you covered proper torquing of fasteners. This is something that for MOST residential components is not required and as such many of us do-it-yourselvers don't know about.
Hi Josh,
Thank you for making this wonderful video outlining the issues with outlet capacity, wire size torque values and installation process. Excellent quality and content. Also your viewers comments are excellent and helpful.
Regarding the Hubbell vs Bryant debate in the comments, they are identical. Neither are marked 75C on the actual device, so both have to be used as 60C rated receptacles, meaning the conductors feeding them have to be rated using the 60C column. Both say they have a maximum continuous operating temp of 75C in the spec PDF, but this is not the same as being rated for 75C. The manual that comes with both says that the conductor used must be rated in accordance with the 60C column. I just looked at my Hubbell manual, box, and receptacle as well as researched thoroughly online. If the Leviton is rated for 75C, that might be part of why they burn out so often. If they are being installed with 8 gauge wire, they are going to generate more heat, as the 6 gauge wire acts as a heat sink. Just thought I'd clear up any misinfo. The Hubbell and Bryant are both manufactured with superior quality to the Leviton and most other 50A receptacles. This does not mean they can use lighter gauge wire. In order to be a true 50A general use outlet, both will require 6 gauge copper wire and cannot use aluminum. There are exceptions for dedicated receptacles used for a single device such as a welder, but that's a more complex topic.
Really dude, a heat sink.
@@Tom-og7fi Noun: a device or substance for absorbing excessive or unwanted heat.
Yes, more wire mass acts as a larger heat sink. Less resistance also means less heat generated. More contact at the connections also means less resistance and better heat transfer. In short, larger wire means less heat and more heat dissipation.
@802Garage I know exactly what a heat sink is junior. In the real world of qualified electrical workers we do not use bigger wire for a heat sink. If you need bigger wire it is because you have a need for more ampacity. If everything is correct for the application and you have heating problems then you have connection issues.
@@Tom-og7fi I didn't say that's WHY you use it, I said it's an effect it has. Jeez man. As in, one factor which could contribute to not burning out receptacles like the Leviton. If it is heating at the contacts to the plug for example, then the wire will act as a heat sink. Wow big time logic. Exactly what you said and I said in the first place. Thanks for your contribution by repeating what I already said in a condescending way.
@802Garage Do you do electrical work for a living. What you are saying is complete BS. Do you know what happens to copper when it gets hot. If you have heating issues, you have a poor installation or a poor connection or drawing more current than the device is continuously rated for. The 80 percent rule is applied to all electrical equipment, not just breakers. This crap of having bigger conductors to act as a heat sink is misinformation period. Bigger wire will not fix the problem.
Hey Josh, I personally liked this video and it appears your new EV charging setup is safe. I read though several comments....holy crap, people really like to voice their opinion.... Anyway, thanks for doing this video, producing instructional videos are a ton of work, so thanks.
It is a good practice with stranded wire to use bootlace ferrules on screw clamp type devices. It ensures better connections as the stranded wire will separate with the screw type connection.
A few years ago while at an IAEI continuing education class they told us that UL labs had samples of receptacles & can't remember if it included switches from all around the country. Approximately only 30 yo 40% were toquered properly. Remainder were close in either not toquered enough or too much. Was told excessive torque was just as bad as insufficient torque. Of the approximately 100 electricians at the class less then 10% even owned a torque wrench or torque driver.
Slight correction, those are poles not phases in your house. The poles are 240v across them with neutral tapped from the middle of the single phase transformer. Everything is on the same sinewave.
This is true, but the two "poles" (red & black) are 180 degrees out of phase from each other vs 3-phase power where they are 120 degrees out of phase from each other.
@@tomnorman5461 When voltage is measured across them, you get a single sine wave of 240v at 60hz. You could invert the polarity to achieve another sine wave 180 degrees out of phase. If you took a measurement with respect to ground at either pole you would get a very small voltage on the lower leg but but it would still be the same phase. If you looked at the top pole and neutral with respect to the lower leg, again your measurements would all be the same phase. The only way I can think to achieve 180 degrees out of phase is to use the neutral to the lower leg but wire the polarity backwards. But you would have two 120v signals 180 degrees out of phase with each other. I can’t think of any appliance or motor that wants that. Instead they want the voltage taken with respect to the lower pole to achieve 240v peak to peak.
@@tomnorman5461 When you add a sine wave of a certain phase (x) to another sine wave *of the same phase* (y) the sum is simply x + y = new voltage. In this case, each wave is 120 volts. So adding both poles together (think of it as putting them in "series") gives you 240 volts. The 120 volt outlets in your house only use one pole, so 120 volts.
But @GROGU123 is correct: they are *NOT* 180 degrees out of phase. Your house has one sine wave (one phase) power running into it.
@@tomnorman5461You are correct, calling it two phases violates only tradition, it is not factually wrong. Electricians resist calling it two phases because 1) the two phases are derived from a single phase source, 2) there was a now obsolete system called two phase with the phases 90 degrees apart, 3) the loads are all single phase, and 4) a 180 degree phase shift is also a simple polarity reversal, so depending on how you analyze the circuit, you can miss the second phase.
@@david672orford Correct. I've drawn a transformer secondary, putting in the center tap, and ask "how does the center tap achieve *polarity* reversal? Crickets, usually.
If you have installed these high current outlets before, when you finally use a proper torque device you will realize you were probably not torquing these terminals enough in the past. As commenters have stated, torque, wiggle the wire and torque again is a good practice. Regular household 20A circuits do not have the torque worries that these high current circuits require.
Additionally, choosing a high quality receptacle is also important. This outlet will have many plug-in and plug-out cycles.
Great info in this video.
Good points. EV charger installs is all that I do now and getting to the point of only doing hardwire installs. My latest outlet, the only commercial grade I could find was a Hubbell at $164. Also needed to run the unused neutral, add another $35. Right now my AHJ does not require a gfci breaker but will in the future, add another $100.
His link in the description to Grainger has a $48 rebrand version of the Bryant 14-50R (exactly the same). The name brand Bryant on Grainger is $213. They have the same two options for 6-50R.
I just had an outlet installation on Friday. Went to Grainger and got a Bryant 9450 for $48 and change. The Hubbell was $213. Looked to be a real Bryant but still a pain to install. @@mbrick
Can you please provide a list of parts for installing a 220 from the basement (residential) to the garage a run of about 40-50feet. Which would be the most safe. Just got a EV retired don't plan on driving it all that much. I'm more of a V8 guy but the lease deal was good. Just concerned about most is safety. Thank u
@@TJOLLYRANCHER If you are concerned about safety, the best thing is to get a licensed electrician to do the work and make sure a permit is pulled and work inspected. I cannot recommend this as a DIY project. Also, without seeing the site, there are too many variables to provide a materials list. If a Tesla, you can contact Smart Charge America, if a non-tesla, Qmerit and if you buy the charger from Best Buy, they all can put you in contact with certified installers.
Super. ALWAYS use the expensive name brand 50 ampere commercial receptacle, a metal well anchored 4/0 box and metal (2 kinds, one surface mount, one recessed mount.) cover plate, and a 50 ampere GFCI breaker, or the prefabricated GFCI outlet box and a standard 50 ampere breaker. Do use at least 6/3g or four six gauge copper wires (Larger is OK, especially for long runs.) if you don't know your areas electrical codes. (Note: THHN 6 gauge wire in conduit can have an 8 gauge ground, some 6/3g has an 8 gauge ground, and some codes allow the ground to be one or two gauges smaller than the conductors.) Make sure that you have four wires into your outlet or prefab box, even if it only requires three. (Old school.) ALWAYS add mineral oil or oxidation prevention grease to ALL connections and to the breaker, (ALL of the terminals or connections, including the breaker and plug prongs.) and always wiggle (Hard) the wires to the connections and retorque the fasteners at least twice. Think about putting a disconnection device beside the outlet so that you can turn the power off when you plug in or remove the plug, and lastly, get one of those rubber door mats and put it below the outlet. (And breaker box.) I have had to repair the smoldering remains of car charging outlets for years now, and sometimes it was a customer that installed it, but many times it was a licensed electrician who actually did a fine job but didn't know that a standard 14-50 receptacle from your local hardware store was inadequate for the job. (Mostly due to being plugged in and out again, while a stove outlet remains connected.) These procedures and precautions allow this Sparky to sleep very well at night. Stay safe. 💙 T.E.N.
What are the rubber mats for?
Insulate you from the floor so there is less of a chance that you will be shocked. I put a mat in front of most of my breaker boxes. 💙 T.E.N.
Got one from Home Depot $11 worked great for over a year without melting. I used 6 AWG wire always want to go heavier on wire.
The heavier gauge wire will help act as a heat sink for the entire device.
Please use 6 AWG. 50 amp x120 volts = 6kW. --6000 watts appliance….
I think the people for whom it melts likely unplug it too often.. Just like a regular outlet after a bunch of plugging and unplugging cycles, you lose grip. I've seen the same issue with people plugging in electric heaters (who also pull a lot of power over long periods) into loose outlets causing melting and burning. With the $11 outlet you likely need to be replacing it on a annual basis IF you unplug it often.
@@LubomirGeorgievI had a 15amp plug melt using a class 1 slow charger
For our Tesla model Y we had an electrician install the NEMA 14-50 outlet but it was cheap and overheated. Teslas deal with this by lowering the charging current. Looking at the cost of a good 14-50 and the GFI breaker I plunked down the $400 for the dedicated wall charger.
I test my outlet, charger, and cord during charging operations (hourly) in the summer in Phoenix, AZ, with a laser thermometer. The highest temperature at the receptacle was 115 degrees, the charger is generally 128 degrees, and the cord 113 degrees. The highest ambient temperature of the garage I've seen was 117 degrees (I didn't charge that day). The book says don't charge when the temperature exceeds 122 degrees. We own a Nissan Ariya, which has a built-in cooler for the battery, which does come on intermittently during charging during the summer but not in the winter.
Interesting. I’m guessing your outlet and charger are in the shade? Most chargers are black, which isn’t great for AZ.
@@chargeeverywhereI said: "garage".
@@dennismaloney7241 Righto. My bad.
Best video of the installation that I’ve seen and you really nailed all the important points!
When I installed my outlet, I used Amp/Tyco wire ferrules with Deoxit L260Dcp conductive grease. The wire ferrules were crimped to the same shape as the outlets connection point "diamond shape on point" this method kept the wire consolidated and allowed even pressure when the allen bolt was tightened.
It originally was a 14-50 outlet with the tesla Mobil charger which only charges at a max 32 amps. I put the larger wire in and breaker knowing I would probably upgrade later which I did, I installed a Tesla wall charger which charges up to 48 amps max but you can control how many amps flow with the Tesla app. You can turn it down to 15 amps or up to 48 amps or anything in between. I turn it down just so its not pulling a ton of current when its really not needed. If I get home and will not leave till the next day which is more then 12 or so hours away typically, turning it down to 20 or 25 amps makes it charge over about a 5 to 8 hours window depending on how depleted the battery is that day. Charging at 48 amps is not needed so I don't do it. The wall charger recommends 6 gouge wire and a 60 amp breaker because overkill its a good thing. Less heat in a larger wire when pulling max amps.
And your battery will last longer instead of dumping tons of amps into it all at once
Why not just put the heavier, proper gauge wire in and be done with it?
@@gextreme2381 I did put in the proper gauge wire if your talking to me, not sure what your talking about.
Some states seem to adding exceptions to the GFCI requirement. I know in Massachusetts I was reading the bill adopting the 2023 NEC and they added bit saying in circuits with one outlet meant for a single device you can forgo the GFCI if they are known to interfere.
I repurposed a 50 amp GFCI line from a former hot tub to power my 30 amp Enel X Juice Box. I replace the GFCI breaker with a regular one because the instructions said I should, but for fun I used the GFCI breaker for 1 week to see if it caused any issues. 1 rain storm and 1 snow storm happened that week (go figure, December in central PA). The outlet is in a sealed, locked box. I had no issues, but changed the breaker anyway.I have never unplugged it, but without a GFCI on an outdoor outlet, you can bet I'll be shutting off the breaker if I ever do unplug it.
It’s like a gfci on a freezer in your garage, nothing like coming home from work with a defrosted freezer because of a nuisance trip.
Yup, Stuff like that pisses me off. Nothing like a good only thermal trip breaker. The appliance manufactures have their own protections and design to standard trip breakers
@@abrahammc2125 The GFCI protected outlets have nothing to do with the protection of appliances and everything to do with personnel protection. The code has no idea what you have plugged into that fridge / freezer outlet. And, for years the model code exempted single outlets from the GFCI requirements. Not a duplex outlet but a single 120 volt outlet.
@@denali9449 I am aware, but you are talking to someone who is aware of the risks. I do not live my life according to the code book for "safety". Rich people do not live by some set standard, they always live custom. I am no different.
@@abrahammc2125 If you actually believe that appliance manufacturer's build in some kind of GFCI protection to trip a standard breaker then you deserve what you get. Hopefully all your corded power tools are of the double insulated type and you never have an issue.
Very good video and a follow up to your original video. I just ordered the same Bryant outlet from Grainger and will be doing the install soon. I am in CA, my house is new and the contractor installed a breaker for the EV charger. Thank you for posting.
Thanks Carlos! Good luck on your install!
Also consider voltage drop potentially requiring the upsizing of wire size in addition to those other derating factors.
I was going to ask what the voltage under charging conditions was.
The limit is 3% per branch and 5% total. 210.??? in the NEC
@@allenshepard7992 NEC does not rule on voltage drop, it only makes the suggestion of 3% for a feeder or branch circuit, or 5% total for both.
@@YaksAttack You are totally correct! There are two reasons for voltage drop concerns. Do you know both of them? Just a quick pop quiz. 😊
I was a Ford tech. Learned some stuff about residential charging from them. One of the first things I was shown was burnt houses and cars and garages. Not necessarily because the tech did it wrong.
But because this is an emerging technology. I don’t ever install NEMA plugs for EV chargers at all.
And honestly, that technology is already outdated in my opinion.
I only install the Tesla Gen 3 charger. Tesla has been doing it longer has made more mistakes and learned from them.
I looked at the Rivian chargers too, and they are not great wouldn’t take on the liability myself.
But Tesla has made a universal charger for the GEN three I recommend it over the Rivian truck charger any day.
For all the problems you mentioned at the beginning I hard wired my Tesla Wall Connector with NO GFCI, I don't trust them for this application and went ahead and used 6 AWG. See the Sandy Munroe segment on the dangers of 14-50 receptacles, they melt, go ahead and do the job right the first time with a wall connector.
Copper or aluminum?
@@KevinCoop1 COPPER
Forget the outlet for a dedicated charger. Hard wire it. Every termination point is an added potential point of failure. Plus you'll save money on additional parts you don't need
One thing I would note is that the Ambient Temperature Correction factors in NEC does not get enough attention and tests have shown the significance of conductor heat during sustained high current periods. I would argue this also applies to the receptacle as well. Consider that over the last 10 years the average high temperature in 22 of the 50 states is over 87F, then at the very least a correction factor of .91 should be applied in addition to the continues current draw derating of 125%. This would mean for a load of 40 amps the circuit would need to be sized to support 55 amps. Inversely if you consider the LIMFAC of the NEMA 14-50 being 50 AMP max, then no more than 36 Amps of load should be placed on that circuit. Once ambient temperature goes up that max current load drops to 32 Amps or lower. One other potential recommendation for NEC updates is to also derate an EV specific circuit by 130% instead of 125% considering the potential for much longer sustained current draw.
You are correct, chargers come in 32amp and 48amp not 50amp. So 32amp charger still uses 50amp or 40amp recep. and wire good for at least 40amps.
48amp charger @125% is 60, so 6awg wire good for 65amps, 60amp breaker, and harwired.
I applaud you for trying to correct your mistakes. 1. the NEC 110.14C does state that circuits under a 100 amps in a dwelling unit shall use the 60° column. You saying that even with 90° wire and a 75° breaker, you kinda met code was in error. 2. The basic 14 -50 plug is a non continuous duty, which is rated for less than 3 hours use at a time.. EV charging requires a heavy duty, continuous duty rated receptacle. Which is for more than 3 hours use, as per code.
3. That 14-50 was not originally for EV or the stove(10-50R on 40amp breaker was stove). 14-50R was designed for RV's and they are so readily available EV's found it easier to use. Even though the EV doesn't need the neutral. When I consulted with Tesla. The 6-50R was proper for EV use, but not widely used. It's easier for a customer to put in a 14 -50R and have a multi-use for it.
4. Please remember, there are several states around the country that homeowners are not allowed to do their own electrical work, Texas being one.
Keep up the videos. We all learn somehow.
False. You can do your own electrical work in Texas. Mine passed inspection even, when I remodeled a house I used to own down to the studs. Rewired the whole house.
Very good information presented, but please ALWAYS verify that the circuit is dead at the receptacle even though the breaker is turned off. Turning off the wrong breaker happens more often than you think! I am a Master Electrician..........don't ask me how I know.
Some electricians trip the breaker by shorting the wires with a screwdriver. That way you always get the right one. Not that I am recommending it.
Before going near terminal wires, ALWAYS test for voltage, even after flipping the breaker. ALWAYS.
It's not true that those outlets aren't designed for continuous 50A power draw. They are or else they wouldn't have gotten the UL approval. But that means that the install needs to be done 100% correctly. I have found that most connector outlets overheat because the screws weren't tightened properly or the wrong wire was used. A good way to tell if you have a problem is to feel the connector under a full load. If it's getting hot, there is a problem. The thing about daily charging is that you might be connecting and disconnecting every day and some cheap connectors start to wear out after too many connections and disconnections. That's probably why more EV outlets melt down. You plug the dryer in once and the plug stays put until the dryer dies and is replaced. And, yes, you can solve that problem by going with a better connector.
On the topic of GFCI with sump pumps can be a BIG issue nuisance tripping flooding the basement .
Even with all the correct sizing, quality product, proper methods there is still some heating that occurs at the receptacle/plug interface, usually during summer months. Some EV modules detect this and disconnect when it occurs. I lowered charging max from 40 to 32amps to correct/protect from unexpected interrupted charge cycle duration.
GFCI is required for licensed/commercial or permit work under the new 2020 NEC code, not typically DIY. Also, many places have not adopted the 2020 code and some have exceptions to it for EVs… so you be grandfathered in if that ever changed… just like any professional following the earlier code.
They make gfci for these. I have not come across them. Where could I find them at. Or are you talking about the breaker with the pigtail on it gfci
@@NA-xm7wj I have not seen GFCI NEMA 14-50 receptacles but the way the NEC requirement is written you could use either. I can only find GFCI breakers with the pigtail but it’s possible the code will create enough demand that we will see GFCI NEMA 14-50 receptacles in the future.
@@emmettturner9452 ok cool. That’s what I thought you meant but wasn’t sure. Yeah it would probably be good to have a gfci right at the receptical. Thanks
@@NA-xm7wj …and might even be cheaper (hopefully!).
@@emmettturner9452 yeah hopefully. I’m considering putting in the wiring fir ev’s cuz I think I’m selling the house next year and I hear having it wired already is a plus to buyers that either has electric car or wants to buy one. Hell I want one too but haven’t found the one fir me yet
THANKS. ...
might I suggest, when using your INITIAL outlet --- to utilize FERRULES on your Stranded Wires before installing them on a screw type termination ?
COOP
...
Never knew installing 14-50 outlet had so many considerations. When talking about such a long charge, how does all of this affect Tesla owners who plug their mobile connector into a wall outlet? Charge times can go from 8-30 hours. Thanks for the video!
Hubbell products have always been top $$$, I bought a Hubbell NEMA 14-30P for my lathe in 2016 and it was $55 at the time.
One thing that i discovered later is that in the larger sizes, the twist-lock versions, _e.g._ an L14-30P, are considerably cheaper.
Man, you sure got all the Electrician wound up, love the comment section. That's were truth is found if you have common sense IMHO. Kinda nice to see the Electric Vehicles run the power bill up at HOME!
You should always test for voltage before working on a circuit.... never assume it is dead because it could have been mislabeled, etc. and could be deadly.
That really made me cringe. I can only imagine how many men have died assuming it's a dead circuit
Thank you for the tip about the Bryant brand!
I found out through Technology Connections' YT vid on EVSEs that part of the standard "connection" sequence is the system checking the grounding. The only way I can conceive of that happening is if the EVSE or the vehicle tries to send SOME current down the ground connection. I had a Siemens breaker which would trip maybe 2/3 of the time when I would plug in my hybrid, either immediately or when I heard the click of one of the contactors closing. I couldn't locate a new Siemens in my area, so I replaced it with a Square D, and I haven't had much trouble with it. This plug-in car is only about 4 weeks "new to me", whereas the Siemens had been installed for a few years. I'm guessing the Siemens is engineered to be more sensitive...or maybe after so much time and a trip now and then, it has gone defective. Either way, I've only had one nuisance trip of the Square D for a couple of weeks, and that wasn't even at charge initation time, it was sometime in the middle of the night.
Sometimes I can’t explain something very well but it has to with the amount of current you can put through a wire. Under one circumstance you can put say 20 amps through a number 12 wire, another only 10 or 12 amps without overheating. One of the circumstance is the ambient air temperature but also if there is anything else heating the conduit such as sunlight exposure or whether there are a whole mess of wires in a small conduit, all carrying a lot of amps. I’ve been fooling around with car alternators lately and on the rotor coil, it does not take that many amps for the coil to overheat if it has been running a long time. The wire in an electromagnet or transformer is all packed together and thus harder for the heat to escape. I think sometimes you got to use your own head to determine what wire size you should and not just go by what someone else says.
It's not a matter of "going by what someone else says". There are standards and if you follow them, you greatly reduce the chance of problems. One other factor you didn't mention is length of wire. If you have a long wire run, standards are set for when you need to upsize as well.
Guys like you that make these videos keep me in business.Thank You.
You saw his video and commented as well which keeps him in business, so thank you on his behalf.
@@Jolajo-ms3cl He gets fractions of a penny per view on his video.I bill around $75/hr when I do service calls to fix issues from people that watch guys like this.Learn to math.
Where I live getting a licensed electrician can take a month or two. Guys like him keep the lights on when electricians are to lazy to pick up a phone.
@@BloodyKnives66 😂😂 doesn’t do much good after your house in ashes. Good luck to you! We in the business hear horror stories every day…
Leviton has an industrial EV Rated 14-50R now as well. Part number is 1450R. It looks very much like the Hubbell/Bryant. I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to open it up to see the insides.
Interesting. I should check that out.
I have a garage that was converted into a large spare bedroom with regular 110 outlets, it has a window right out in front of the driveway, which for me makes sense with the right
AC window kit and 3.5 '' duct tube, I could see a regular 240 chord slide inside of out to the electric car's charge port, once I upgrade the 110 outlet into a 240 Volut outlet:
But what am I missing? What major advantage am I losing by not just installing a dedicated outdoor Level 2 (station/stand) as I've seen others do, when they have no garage like myself ?
I almost didnt click to watch, but very glad I did. Learned some valuable info here. Thanks for that
having multiple fuses in a breaker box and preventing turning off the wrong breaker it is best before disassembling the outlet is to test/check if any voltage from the 14-50 outlet. Looking at your wire it looks like you're using a #8 and should be a #6 AWG for the 50amp circuit.
Get an EV rated outlet. Leviton, Hubble, Pass and Seymore etc all sell these. They are $40-60.
in addition if this is installed outside it will need to be a weather resistant version of this, which is about $10 or so more.
If the outlet is in a garage, a shed or outside it must be on a 250A GFCI breaker. It also must be in an extra duty waterproof box if installed outside.
Here is the deal. If you go to Grainger’s site, that number for the Bryant references a 14-30R.
Where did you get the face plate? Didn’t see that there.
agree. he posted the wrong product url
Check with Grainger. I had the same issue and called to confirm the actual product being sold. At the time of my call, the product description was wrong as it was referencing a 14-30 instead of 14-50. For wall plate, look into Leviton S701 as the opening is larger to match the Bryant.
I just added six gauge ALL COPPER four wire my main in breaker box ….42 feet to the outlet and it’s Hubbell 14/50 $78.00, little more money up front…a lot less money than intheREAR..if you have a fire!!!! Jut do it right. Absolutely torque and re torque
The ones on Lowes/HD are listed as industrial grade and have a 4.9 rating. Should be fine if you're using the correct gauge of wire. Plus, I can only charge at 32a anyway.
I went to buy one today and it turns out that the Hubbell is now cheaper (under $100) than the Bryant.
The required size and amp capacity of the receptacle is determined by the required input of the charger. The charger is rectifying the household AC power to DC and controlling the battery charging voltage to maintain the desired rate of charge and amount of charge. All effects the needed input current (amps). The input capacity doesn't do the controlling unless you count, tripping the breaker 😊
Thank you. This was very helpful
I found when replacing nema 14-50 outlets they're all rated to carry 50 amps! The Hubble's and Bryant's will burn too if they're smashed into a shallow electrical box! All the conductors need to be completely recessed into the terminals no frayed wires!
What causes them to burn is not necessarily the load, but poor contact with the plug. I've seen this hundreds of times -- RV parks, and race tracks. (and as it would happen, a Tesla did set one on fire at Road Atlanta a few years ago. We still give him grief about that.) The AC in my RV cooked one of the plugs on one of our 8AWG extension cords because they have shit contacts in them.)
The cheaper outlets have a very poor connection for the load, the industrial outlet has a solid connection. That's the main difference really
Sorry, but there is a seperate nec section for car chargers, evse equipment, that in the 2017 or earlier code required gfci protection for car charging recepticles.
Please review article 625, specifically 625.54.
Article 210.8 now requires (nec 2020) gfci protection for garage recepticles up to 250 volts be gcfi protected.
where can we get the cover for Bryant receptacle
I found it to be Steel City RS14 Surface Box Cover for Single Receptacle Power
Nice presentation of the corrections. Homeowners need to know the potential problems with new technology. The 2017 NEC does require GFCI for EV receptacles. There was an update in December 2016. Some books have it some do not. Also just like the cheaper receptacles sometimes melt, the same could happen at the circuit breaker box. As you noted these can run 40 or more amps for 6 hours or more. Panels cannot handle the heavy load. Again nice presentation.
I broke my hubbell can i use eaton with aluminum conductors
Hi. What is the main differences between plastic box and metal box?
Can you please help me where find your new PVC elecric box. Thank you.
One more thing the evse should be plugged into the 14-50 outlet and left there if you have a Hubble or Bryant outlet those terminals are a little more heavy duty when people keep plugging and unplugging that's the main cause of the problem! I've been charging two Chevrolet bolts at the same time on two different circuits with Menard brand nema 14-50 after a year there is no sign of burning my two evse stay plugged in!
Not in my experience. I have unplugged my charger maybe 4 times in 2 years. With a Leviton 14-50 I was getting high temperature warnings after 1 year. I retorqued the screws and 6 months later the internal blades were relaxed enough to physically buzz when inspected with a contact stethoscope. I reduced the charge current to 70% of maximum until I could replace it with a Bryant. No more overheating or buzzing. I think it’s a metallurgy issue.
Eaton 50 amp GFCI BR breakers are really hard to find in my area.
Found the Bryant, NEMA outlet. But can't find the bigger wall box he used. Can someone link me if possible. Thanks,
Your right the two GFCI buck each other. I've had the same problem
Don't have an electric car but I want one eventually. I installed the 50amp already used 6ga wire also since 8ga is the min and I don't want the bear minimum. I will however be buying that industrial 50amp, I also noticed the connections screws weren't very effective. Does the metal face plate fit the new outlet or did you buy a different one?
This is EXCELLENT, a better way at a better price.
Good video.
Have a question.....
My home has only WHITE, BLACK, and ground, but no RED wire.
So my question is, how would I wire the plug (both ends) without a RED wire. Was thinking of running a jumper from where the black wire goes into the back of the plugs to where the red goes.
Please do not do this. Call an electrician if you think that’s an ok thing to do.
To follow the NEC is a base. Municipalities have their adapted into NEC with NFPA regulations . Following the NFPA is the overall code .
Is the screw-style connection on the cheaper receptacle really a problem? That's what breakers use...
Yes, it can be. Breaker panels typically use hex socket screws on large, say 6 gauge stranded wire for incoming power and power to sub panels if applicable. The individual breakers are usually 15, 20, or 30 amp and solid wire should be used, 14, 12, 10 gauge respectively. 8 gauge and heavier will be stranded. Since solid wire can't separate, it makes a big difference, so screw type fasteners are appropriate.
You forgot about derating for continuous duty. Considering that you expect the charging to last 3 hours or more, you have to size the wire for 125% of the expected draw. If it's 40 amps, then the wire needs to be sized for 50 amps in addition to any other derating. With all the derating, you need a 4awg conductor to feed the outlet even though you put a 40 amp breaker on the circuit.
Yes, you are correct. The 125% derate is handled by the EVSE and/or car as home/garage wiring is sized for the circuit. In other words, on a 40 Amp circuit with 8 AWG your EVSE should draw a maximum of 32 A. All EVSEs are configured in this way or set like this during the install.
Nice. How did you determine the temperature rating of the Bryant or Hubble receptacles ?
@@justRome1 there's a listed temperature rating for the terminals on the device. If you can't find it in the paperwork that comes with the device, you can look up the spec sheet or contact the manufacturer. Alternately, most terminals, if the listing isn't given, should be considered as being rated for 70°F. The NEC has a wire ampacity and size chart and different insulations fall under different temperature ratings. You always size the wire according to whether the terminal or the wire has the lower temperature rating.
@@justRome1 It was given in the documentation that came with the outlet. They specified to use the 60°C column of the wire sizing charts.
@@chargeeverywhere thanks for looking out on this video you save me from a mistake for sure because I have the same setup. I switched from 50amp to a 40amp. Now. I need to buy a torque wrench. They have more expensive Bryant receptacles out now that do support the 75c. Many RUclips videos say the Bryant And Hubble receptacles are the same but you have to compare the documentation to determine that.
Can the Tesla level to be just plugged in into Bryant 1450 ?
If you are unplugging and plugging in the charger plug, you need to install a permanent charger. You are just asking for a fire eventually. A better outlet will just last longer, but eventually it will fail.
Hello , what brand and model was the torque wrench? Thank you.
Don't you have to use a metal box and a ground wire attaches to it?
It isn't wise to run #8 for EV at 40amps, I wouldn't do it for even a wall mounted charging unit. I'm sure some would because people usually want to go with the least expensive material costs. But 30 amps is the max circuit breaker I would use for #8 when it comes to EV charging. I 've seen and replaced at least 4 charging units catch fire because whoever installed them wasn't qualified. And guess what wire size they used? .... #8! The 90 degree column is primarily meant for conductor derating, correction, sizing, as most terminations are rated at 75 degrees.
Don't just pick a wire and assume the ampacity in the column though because there's other factors to consider. What we're concerned about with electrical systems is HEAT. Electricity generates heat, improperly sized conductors can cause fire or other hazards.
I hate when non electricians give advice and "how to..." on things they really shouldn't...
What wire do you recommend then?
@@chewyyo3383 #6 for Nema 14-50. Copper.
@@whattheschmidt thanks, that what I ended up using.
@@whattheschmidt #6 Wire is so difficult to manage in a breaker and gang box especially for a short run
@sanjapkoki I used the large metal box that was deep and put the extended metal faceplate on that fits the Hubbell 14-50. 3/4 conduit feeds it, fit everything fine. I think the key is to make sure you have this larger set up with the extended face so it all fits easily and safely.
Tesla suggests a 50 amp breaker with #6 wire for their 220 chargers. Bryant receptacle is great.
If I have an electrical appliance that requires 3000 W, can I change a 15 amp breaker for a 30 amp one?
The breaker is to protect the cable (from your breaker box - load center - to your outlet). So if you have an appliance that is tripping the breaker DO NOT just install a bigger breaker! You need to have an entire new cable run for the appliance which can handle the greater load. This is important: do it wrong and you will burn down your house. Best to hire an electrician & have the peace of mind.
I think NJ is on the 2020 Code already. I'm surprised, but not that surprised PA isn't as well. (at least on your map)
Why some people uses 50 amp and others uses 30 amps? I installed a 30 amp but I notice the breaker warms up while the car is charging is this normal?
Your torque wrench was last calibrated 11 years ago! (12/13/2011) These things require calibration on a 6 to 12 month schedule.
Yep. He needs to visit a metrologist.
I was looking at the same table and could not find any reference on the table for romex or nm-b cable (non-metallic sheathed cable). It is not clear which column applies to nm-b cable. Since 6/3 cable is rated for 55 amps, I would assume that it is the TW cable type (since UF likely is for underground cabling).
Romex or NM-B now is a cable(assembly of conductors). The conductors in these cables are currently made utilizing THHN conductors which are rated at 90C. But as he stated in the video, you can not use the 90C column because of termination rating of the breaker and the device(receptacle). Breakers are 60/75C rated since mid to late 1980’s. Most of the cheap receptacles are only rated at 60C, so you must use the 60C column. The Hubble is rated 75C so can use the 75C column. The Bryant is 60C. Hope this helps you! Kevin
@@KevinCoop1 Thanks for your insights!
@@KevinCoop1 There is also the requirement in the NEC 334.80 to use the 60C rating of NM and NMC cable. This permits derating for temp and fill from the 90C column, but needs to be in compliance with the 60C column for final sizing. NM-B does not seem to be directly mentioned in the NEC, but is assumed to come under 334.80 and 334.112. So using a cable [such as NM-B] starts one off from a restriction to 60C whereas using a conduit allows the starting reference to be the 90C column if using THHN/THWN, then derating as per the receptacle and breaker 60 or 70C rating. Gets kinda complex after a while.
So a Tesla charger is just hardwired? No outlet or GFCI required?
The nema standard 14-50 is that the outlet is rated for 50 amps and makes a standard configuration for the prongs that are rated for the load universally. It will give you 50 amps, however NEC states under a continuous load the wiring and outlets MUST be Derated to 50% of their rating and a continuous load is described as any load lasting 3 hr or more. So everything needs to be increased in size. Electric cars are an issue, I recommend a charging station whenever possible. I don't own a EV But I am a Master electrician I always believed in upsizing wiring, it makes for a better install and adds a safety factor. ****Remember electrical work is NOT A HOBBY Hire a Licensed electrician**** installing these things and not knowing codes can burn your home down. I've seen it.
In most cases, it's improper termination torque. too little as well to much can yield the same, over heating from poor connections.
If your charger has it’s own GFI but code requires one in the outlet circuit, you may be able to disable/bypass the one in the charger. If it’s not clear in the charger instructions I would contact the manufacturer.
Or you can just fuck the NEC code and AHJ.... I am all for gfci and afci where needed, but lets not try to make 220v receptacles idiot friendly.
Excellent presentation
One thing nobody talks about, is that the circuit breaker should be switched off whenever one plugs and unplugs the charger. These outlets are not meant to be used like regular 15-20A outlets that we have throughout the house. This avoids arcing when plugging in and development of carbon that can be a source of problems later.
Most EVSEs are drawing milliamps when idle, so this is a completely pointless "recommendation".
is this legal to do by yourself in PA?
Would you use a 6/4 or 6/3 wire with your Nema 14-50?
You will need three conductors - black, red, and white and one ground - green. For runs through conduit, individual stranded conductors should be used, but in-wall wiring could use 6 AWG Romex. An alternative is to get a NEMA 6-50 outlet and EVSE with this plug - although less common. The 6-50 only requires two conductors (black and red) and a ground. I haven’t seen a 240V charger that requires the neutral. Good luck!
@@chargeeverywhere ... you make a valid point, but NEC doesn't allow the use of an outlet without a full complement of wires. IOW, if you have 4 pins / prongs in the outlet you must have 4 wires. If you hardwire to an EV charger you can meet the needs with only 3 wire cable. (no neutral) The difference in wire cost isn't enough to NOT do it correctly and future-proof the job.
Future proofing would also be adding the gfci! Dont Tesla chargers have a built-in gfci???
@@JM-iz3fr ... there's' the catch 22 on code. If your area is using the 2020 NEC you are supposed to have GFCI for the receptacle. Rumor has it that some car chargers have the GFCI built in, which will cause random trips. NEC makes no provision for skipping the GFCI other than hardwiring the charger. My suggestion would be to research your charger and talk with your local building inspector.
There are several overlapping and seemingly contradictory Electrical codes covering garages. These will either add or retract from the Amps or equipment requirements. I listed a few that apply to the video I saw. Continuously operating equipment: something that will operate for more than 3 hours. A dedicated circuit: 1 circuit breaker, 1 wire run to one outlet. Also, garages normally require a GFCI, but not if a dedicated piece of equipment was used like a freezer or a charging station used solely for your car. As a master electrician, I can honestly say, the electrical code can be put on one page, the other 999 pages are basically exceptions. According to the electrical code, you are running a piece of equipment that is continuously running, on a dedicated circuit that is for one piece of equipment. These things are additive to your base calculations of amperage draw, that's why the outlets are melting. The outlet is the weak link in the video. Next, the insulation on the wire will start to weaken and crack. It's a safe practice that if you're not sure, just go to a higher level: use a 60 amp breaker, 6 gauge wire, etc. These codes are there to prevent the circuit components from overheating and damaging the insulation, NOT to make sure the copper strands can handle the electrical current.
this is why it is better to just use hardwire chargers. You just take out the plug from the equation.
For an EV charger they usually only use L1, L2 and ground. If I did not have an outlet already I would just get a hard wired level 2 charger, pull 4 gage THNN in conduit and use a 60 amp breaker.
Every manufacturer rails against GFCI. I've seen plenty of evidence that sequential gfci protection does not cause trips. If you're not leaking current, you can't trip a gfci.
I did install all AFCI/GFCI breakers for my Electrical Expansion project, Computer room on dedicated circuit, to be extra cautious. More protection is better.
I have issue with ChargePoint CPH50 charger with Nema 14-50 Industrial Grade GFCI Plug outlet. No issue when it’s charging. My circuit breaker randomly shuts off when it is not charging or unplugged from car charger port. Does anyone else had such issue ? If charger is hardwired instead of Nema14-50 , will that solve this issue?