DC RUINED Batman's BEST Love Interest
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- Опубликовано: 20 апр 2024
- Talia al Ghul has proven to be one of the most prominent love interests for Batman, dating back to her first appearances alongside Ra's al Ghul in DC Comics. Her popularity stems from adaptations such as 'Batman: Arkham City,' 'Gotham Knights,' 'Batman: The Animated Series' in the DCAU, and the DCAMU with 'Son of Batman' and 'Batman: Bad Blood.' Controversy surrounding the character emerged from Grant Morrison's Batman run, which introduced Damian Wayne as Robin to the rest of the Batfamily, including Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, and Tim Drake Robin. Ever since she drugged Bruce to conceive Damian, many future adaptations have chosen to depict a more villainous side of the character, contrasting with her more peaceful nature in earlier years.
#batman #batmanarkhamknight #gothamknights #dcu #dccomics #robin #redhood 
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I agree they have ruined the character. Should've just been a night of passion, and she ended up getting pregnant.
Read “Batman - Son of the Demon”
@@doqas yeah, but that was retconned
@@doqas at the end of that story Damian ends up getting adopted so its not even canon.
@@javierlopez9789 there was a letter in a book called Batfiles where Talia implies she eventually goes back for Damian.
Fr
I am genuinely tired of DC warping Talia into a monster.
She’s the daughter of the head of the League Of Assassins. They’ve both done terrible things before they even met Batman. Why would she not be a monster? She’s a villain. An anti-villain at best. Never a hero. Never even an anti-hero like Catwoman often is. Idk what you’re talking about. Her endlessly loyalty to her father means she was always going to be a monster, unless he can stay dead for once. Then she’d have hope after over a decade with Bruce de-programming her. Cuz no way she isn’t brainwashed or close enough to it. He can at least make her realize she can do better and be better, and do things for herself to finally be happy, free of Ra’s. Unless/until he comes back because then she’ll just immediately spiral back to how she’s always been.
@@Paradox-es3bl She's never been a monster to Bruce is what I mean. They made her into someone thats hated by both Bruce and her son.
@@jonnjones8263 As she should be she's a horrible person
I heard that even Grant Morrison regretted the choices he made with Talia, and also hoped that people would forget about them.
Apparently, they only did it because they misremembered the events of Batman: Son of the Demon.
@@themadtitan7603 he forgor💀
Nah cause like how do you misremember something consensual and decide to just make it rape because ur too lazy to go check ur sources?
No way imma make him remember what he did and take his L for all eternity 😂😂
Atleast the current Talia is back to being written as more of an ally who actually loves Damian and Bruce.
But Talia's fate rest in the hands of the dcu and how they portray her.
I would mockingly call this Talia Cell Saga Vegeta for actually letting reality hit her hard in the face at the absolute worst time
It's so frustrating to see DC try to mold Talia into this villainess role, when her half-sister, Nyssa Al Ghul is RIGHT THERE! This is especially prominent with Gotham Knights, where all Talia's actions would make a lot more sense for Nyssa: from her resentment towards Ra's and taking over the League, to repeatedly putting Bruce into the Lazarus Pit to break his mind (something that, I'm not kidding, actually happened TO Talia in Batman: Death and the Maidens. Nyssa killed and revived Talia over and over to drive her insane). Nyssa, unlike Talia, actually has a tragic backstory that explains her descent into villainy, but doesn't have decades of history as Batman's ally and his love interest.
I really dislike this recent characterization of Talia as "Ra's but female". It's incredibly boring, and completely ruins any dynamic between her and her father, because when two characters act the same, think the same, talk the same, it's as dynamic as a piece of stale bread. Where is the conflict, the depth, THE SAUCE? Classic, pre-Morrison Talia was constantly torn between her loyalty to her father and her love for Bruce; her understanding Ra's point, but disliking his methods; craving freedom, but unable to leave Ra's side. She was complex and so incredibly compelling, and I miss her so damn much.
Ironically Nyssa WAS used prominently in the Arrow verse. Though I think it was just Talia with Nyssa name was into women. 😅 Nyssa just doesn't have the years of stories and noterity that Talia has.
Talia is a garbage character she’s not compelling or interesting writers completely destroyed her it’s disgusting when she’s mentioned or seen
@@killmonger5097 I wouldn't say she's garbage. She was compelling when she was the love interest who genuinely loved Bruce and loved her father despite both men being at odds. She also wanted to forge her own path. Which she did until she was tortured and brought back to life multiple times.
"Then she proceeds to have a ma-" SHE DOES WHAT WITH JASON?
ASTAGHFIRULLAH FEAR GOD TALIA 😂😂
Yeah, wtf?
She's the daughter of a murderer and I really don't think they ever intended her and Ra's al Ghul to be Muslims despite the Arab aesthetic.
The new 52 retconned the Talia x Jason stuff
@queerios1077 well, that's good.
Yeah, this is why I have problems with Talia al Ghul. She wanted to do the right thing for her love for Batman. However, her loyalty to her father is too strong for her. Seriously, it's like the writers don't know what to do with her. And Catwoman is no better either.
Talia has been trying to leave her father side and she actually did for awhile leave Ra's and did good on her own. But then Death and the Maidens happened...
@@huntertezz What's that ?
@@aidanhever3369 Basically she gets tricked and captured by her sister Nyssa who tortures, kills and resurrects Talia until she went insane and evil.
That did happen huh? Does that ever get addressed since for why Talia has gone mad.
@@huntertezzthat’s the most garbage excuse one writer shits on her so other writers have to continuously shit on her because of the previous writer wtf
And they say Bruce's relationship with Catwoman is toxic😂
Edit: I take it back Catwoman is way much worse.
It is. But so is this one
It's not
@@redram6080 this one is the most toxic...I mean she's the definition of jealousy issues. She will go so far as to actually murder the one woman Batman legitimately loved and could have continued heroics with on the day he was gonna pop the question.
Honestly I wished their relationship worked. I really wished it did work. But DC said no.
Catwoman is probably worse now
Well, modern writing especially towards women is either straight evil to the point they need no man and everything they do is justified OR They are written as the "Hero" that needs no man and everything is justified. There is no such thing as nuance in these writers' heads.
And what are your credentials, as a writer? How many narratives have you written, how many characters have you created?
My guess would be ZERO.
@@Saje3D Actually self-published three books and placed in some competitions. So... Your point my dude? Sure, they didn't get popular but I did the work and trained with professional writers. For you to even say this as an insult shows me personally the spine you have. People can't criticize others' works because "THEY DIDN'T WRITE BOOKS" What kinda of statement is even that? Re-evaluate, think, and come back with something better.
One quick note: The madness from the Lazarus pit is temporary, though it's longer each time. Though in the DCAMU, it seems to be permanent.
In the comics its implied over exposure can leave to more permanent effects.
In Talia's case she was repeatedly tortured, killed and then revived. No wonder she went amd.
4:12 man that scene scarred me as a child. Like damn Ra al ghul was willing to get $40 now or never. Maybe a male heir. Or an other way to cheat death.
Ras is Batman’s first Trans villain
I always liked this ship ( even though I love Bat&Cat also ), but after Morrison's run she probably will not be Bruce's love interest anymore ( maybe with heavy hard reboot to start again everything, maybe then). Yeah, she wasn't the best person, but her moral conflict between her Father and Bruce was really interesting.
She is back to being one of Bruce's love interests, even kissed not too long ago. In the comics atleast they are trying to make her back to how she used to be.
She is currently helping Bruce in detective comics.
@@huntertezz Finally !!!!!!!!!!!!
@@huntertezz about time
@@huntertezz Also from what I've read, Talia drugging Bruce was retconned. I don't know what that gets brought up more though.
@@themadtitan7603 Because that shouldn't be made in the first place. If you adapt (more or less) old story to new continuity you have to read the og version and not defend yourself by "I misremembered" BS. And DCAMU also used this version of Damian's creation.
I've always wanted an elseworld story where Batman took Ras up on his offer and he becomes an Evil dictator that Justice League has to take down like Injustice
Oh !
There is a universe where that happened
That would be so cool, like an evil Batfamily
@@kwayneboy1524 source? Asking for myself
If Talia is written well, I wonder if she and Bruce could genuinely be happy together. Have Damian and maybe even be married.
They would have.
Atleast in future state Talia and Bruce decided to retire and live together with Damian to help him overcome his hell trauma.
Aww
@@huntertezz That sounds great. Wish a happy like that could happen for Bruce
I would Pay too see that happen.
Dc and warner bros could never they r on crack atm
I still don’t like her as the endgame love interest 👨🏾🍳
Personally, that was never the point. The point was simply that she loved Bruce and Bruce loved her. Not that they'd settle together.
@@ibrahimihsan2090 do you like Superman and Wonder Woman together
Arkham games says otherwise@@ibrahimihsan2090
@@unluckydreamer NO!
Clark and Lois got married, and had a child. And I really don't want that retconned.
Bruce had a child but practically speaking, he never really settled with a woman. Tried to but never did.
@@unluckydreamernah I mean Batman and Wonder Woman honestly I’d see that some what working atleast in the Animated series universe
I would’ve never called her Batman’s best love interest, but I could at least say on paper the idea of Batman’s sympathy, for someone who was robbed their childhood and brainwashed into a life of violence growing into a mutual love would be interesting.
But in the chemistry, at least to me, always felt artificial at best. And when they decided to make her a rapist, all bets were off.
The rape was retconned and only happened because Grant Morrison misremembered Son of the demon. She’s also now back to being a serious love interest as of Ram V’s detective comics
@@queerios1077So she's not a psycho ex wife stereotype anymore?
@@Drums_of_Liberation not at all
4:15 ra's was wild for that one plot
Hear me out
He probably wanted a son. Or grandson
What's wrong with them them sharing a night of passion and getting pregnant from it? That's a solid backstory for Damian.
Not that there's something wrong with it, because what's wrong with a female character just giving into evil, while also showing her obsession with Batman like her father? So much so, she basically made a "Bio-Clone" of Batman.
The "night of passion" can just be with Catwoman + Batman = Helena Wayne
@baligong3592 let me tell you a story. Back in the 50s-60s batman and catowman had a daughter. This daughter soon became the huntress after batman and catwoman die. This was a stlryline for a while before she got rebooted into no longer being there daughter. Talia is constantly retconned by authors between good lr bad sometimes both. If DC had consitency we wouldnt be having this problem.
@@TheR3d3mpti0n
You're right, and it will remain to be that way because these characters were never made to end.
If Comics were more by 1 Writer, then consistency is likely to happen, and though many bring comparisons to Manga, the difference is: if the Mangaka dies, the story ends there unless the Mangaka says otherwise.
I guess the best way to make there be consistency with Batman, or any Character, is if they reboot the Universe every decade or few years... But people wouldn't like it anyways.
@@baligong3592 that's the thing, they ARE made by more than one writer. Mamga has one writer and their assistants through their run. Comic books get passed Luke torches to other writers constantly which, as already proven, will make everything inconsistent. All it takes is for someone on the writing team not to agree with their predecessor and everything gets screwed up. Look at Ms. Marvel in Avengers #200. Guy who made Carol Danvers set her up as the new Captain Marvel and she got screwed over by another writer. This will constantly happen till Marvel and DC get really good editors or just get rid of main continuity.
@@baligong3592 we need a reboot anyways. Theres too much after the death metal event that recently happened.
Character assassination is pretty much why I hate Flashpoint. it is the point where storylines and Characters degrade to travesty’s they are now.
Talia's character has actually been improved in recent years.
She was cured of her madness and is an ally and love interest of Batman again.
I mean it wasnt due to Flash point
@@kwayneboy1524yes it is. Flashpoint allowed the writers to ignore characters, history, and lore. To put in there bad fanfic plots.
I also think a big elephant in the room regarding Talia's characterization is the political aspect, her race and how public perception of people from Arab country's has shifted since 2001.
Originally she wasnt even that good of a fighter (batman literally had to jump in and save her in their first meeting) given she was supposed to be a pacifist before they turned her into terrorist black widow
Wow that sounds infinitely better but I’ll do one better. She’s terrorist Electra actually
6:48 Arkham Knight Moment, when Batman goes to Evidence Lock up and sees her sword,
That moment made me cry cause i grew up with BTAS and Batman Beyond
If even Batman can get roofied, what hope do we have??
Don’t worry no one wants to roofie you
No hope brother, we are all going to get roofied 😢
*Cough Cough Character assassination
Never takes drinks from strangers.
Are we genius handsome billionaires? Idk about you but I think I’m too ugly to get roofied. I wouldn’t worry.
I'm torn between Tali & Catwoman because I love them both and they make for great love interests. If I were to give DC a new Universe I'd put him & Catwoman together but I would treat his previous relationship with Talia with respect. Make it clear that they had a loving relationship but she was died and left Damien with Bruce.
That sounds better
Good video, it was about time somebody said all this stuff. But a very important fact is missing: the ruining of Talia in comics began in 2003 in the "Batman: Death And The Maidens" miniseries, in which her half-sister Nyssa tortured her until turning her into just another psychotic villain.
You're right!!! That makes turn into a villain in Morrison's run even worse and more tone deaf when it's played as her being bad from the start and this not being the result of horrible torture.😖😖😖
I was more Bat and Cat fan than Taila and Bat fan as she had strong connections for her father. Unlike Bat and Cat are solo players who fight for what they think is Justice. That and I was never a fan of Damien Wayne as a character.
Damien did get much better.
I KNOW!!!😭😭😭 I absolutely love Talia, I adore her and Bruce being together. Unfortunately one of her first introductions to me was that storyline so I hated her for a short few months. Luckily I finally started reading comics very soon after that, and one of my first was Son of the Demon (one of my favs
Judd winick think it’s normal to raise a kid and sleep with them like in his own household
Silver St. Cloud is Batman's best love interest she's the only one that wasn't a criminal. Also she's the only one that made Bruce happy. But you know Batman can't be happy so DC killed her off.
4:08 now hear me this may sound bad.
my head canon for batman bad blood is that the lazarus pit made her lose her empathy for bruce and damien coz if you enter the lazarus pit you’re not supposed to come back the same usually you come back demented but in her case she lost her emotions
She's the daughter of an immortal madman. I think you're giving her far too much credit.
and she's fully on board with his quest to cleanse the earth of people. he's giving her way to much credit.
Still could be written better though
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp True but having her in constant dilemma gets annoying pretty quickly.
“o I love you father but I also love Batman what ever do I do” rince repeat. Ra’s has gotta be the most forgiving father on the planet for how repetitive she is
its like you ignored the entire video.... how many characters have evil fathers but have more moral codes
I liked Talia a lot when I played Arkham City. She was very compelling. I haven’t got to the episodes of the animated series with Talia yet but I’m excited to.
That was one of my first introductions to her character. I wish that version of Talia and her relationship with Bruce was fleshed out more and I was hoping she'd return in Knight. I imagine their dynamic is similar to what I've looked up about their relationship in the O'Neil run.
Yeah I liked her in Arkham city but that was before I found out how Damian was conceived
11:00 I'm not going to lie. That outfit makes her look like the white power ranger. Lmao
Fr
Finally someone talks about Talia's flanderization for real I liked her in Son of Batman but then in Batman Bad Blood they made her a villain again and killed her off WHY such a waste could've had her try to be a better person but just didn't bother
I never liked Talia after how she was turned so evil during the Batman Inc saga and how she treated Damian's Clone.
Which sucks because one aspect I find legitimately interesting is her being responsible in some iterations for Jason Todds Ressurection and return with the words "You are Unavenged"
Another reason why I've always preferred Wonderbat, it always had him feel healthier spiritually
Wonderbat is only good in the cartoon. They have no chemistry in the Comics.
@@celestialsoldier622 Agreed. Superman and Wonder Woman chemistry, however, is off the chart.
I also agree that Barbara and Batman were better romantic duo in the end (killing Joke shipping)
@@kingol4801bro that’s actually crazy
@@kingol4801 Bro gonna sit here and ship Batgirl and Bruce and act lie he an't insane.
@@kingol4801wonderbat is good because of both of their positions,like pairing wonder woman with superman is so plain,like ofc the 2 demigods are gonnalike each other.Plus i hste how they show clark flirting with wonder qoman while also dealing with louis.Wonderbat is intreasting becsuse its a demi god princess and a rich kid with issues
3:00 "brother euughhhh" we all say in unison
Ras isn't immortal. He artificially extends his life through use of the Lazarus Pits which have taken on massive plot device-itis.
Talia is a very interesting character because depending on the author she can be as heroic as Catwoman or *worse* than the Joker
Will you stop
That
Catwoman
Is not a Hero
She never was she never will be
@@user-gj9uq3kb7yI mean the original earth 2 Catwoman became a hero for good. That is how the Huntresse was first created to.
@@rynobehnke8289
Ahhh Ok
@@user-gj9uq3kb7y She isn't a traditional hero but she has teamed up with Batman and in recent years she is definitely more good than bad
@@TotalTech2.
Catwoman is also extremely toxic. I will never forget that she left him at the altar, a selfish whore, or when she decided to train criminals to be more efficient when stealing.
I’m so glad you made a video covering this subject as she was one of my favorite Batman love interests and I hated how her character was gutted over the years.
I do see catwoman as the best option even before the Damien thing
Nah the best option will always be Zatanna.
Catwoman is also toxic.
@@huntertezz she's not toxic and even Zatanna advocates for Bruce and Selina
@@huntertezzHow is Catwoman toxic? I mean yeah she’s a thief but that’s certainly lightyears better than the demonic scum Talia is.
@@jlpgamin not toxic? Made out with his son, left him at the altar, cheated on him, started a war in gotham over a stupid plan which tore apart the batfamily.
Only because Batman pushed away Zatanna. She is still the best option for him.
@huntertezz not canon. She was literally manipulated into leaving and then felt like shit for months. And she didn't tear the family apart Bruce's mental state is what caused them to go against him.
And the point still stands that she advocates for them
Worst to me. Her dad is literally trying to groom them for the league of assassins. On top of that she is an assassin. She does not share Batman's preference for not killing by design. Catwoman you can at least see her change and evolve as a character. Taliah is just straight up toxic for Batman.
They are both toxic. And Talia never used to agree with Ra's methods and always tried to break away and do better.
Sadly when she did break away and started doing good her sister came along and tortured her until she went insane and evil.
Catwoman is also extremely toxic. I will never forget that she left him at the altar, a selfish whore, or when she decided to train criminals to be more efficient when stealing.
Same here. Catwoman isn’t some crazed murder, or a genocidal manic, or an assassin, etc, she mostly is just a theif that gets semi redeemed by Batman, so despite her selfishness at times, it feels more believable that Batman would date catwoman instead of any brutal criminal, like an assassin.
Batman dating an assasain makes me think that Batman is a hypocrite.
i mean in the original storyline she still lied and told him she miscarried when she actually didn’t, so it’s not like she was a saint. you’re talking about something that has been considered canon for almost 20 years as if this is new information lmao
Zatanna is Batman’s best love interest in my opinion.
Our
Yes
I genuinely want dc to just do a full reboot/restart at this point
Look, Bruce and Talia's son was originally conceived in a consensual sexual act in 1986's Batman: Son of the Demon, and Talia was forced by her father, Ra's al Ghul, to give her child up for adoption to a wealthy and childless American couple in an ironic twist of fate. That's where the story should have ended. I never agreed with the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths retcon of the story that created Damian because it was beyond stupid.
Honestly I kinda can't see him ending up with any of the masks. His relationship with Selina and Talia is toxic, his relationship with Diana that was good in DCAU canonically didn't end well, and as much as I'd like to say there's Zatana... the whole mind wiping thing means they cannot ever be like they were again. Like what other women are there for him that can accept Bruce and Batman?
I absolutely loved Talia in the era of the 2000s where she helped lead Lexcorp post-Tower Of Babel . I miss that Talia . Atleast Ram V is writing her well again !
What well-written, sadistic female villains are left in comic books? Whether retcon or not, seems like everybody wants such villains to be limited as fuq.
That's why I prefer the story of them having fallen in love & had a 1 night stand. I feel Bruce definitely loves Talia and the nefarious child making didn't need to be apart of Damian creation.
Honestly, I think Batman is best without any love interests.
His only “child” should be an adopted dad relationship with his robins.
I think Bruce makes sense as a perpetual single guy.
Maybe he goes on a few dates here and there to keep up the attractive billionaire façade, but has no real interest in romance or women.
I just think it works the best for him.
Can you do a video on new DC characters? Like Punchline, Trinity, Godspeed...
IdK...I'm really curious to see if the new popular characters are actually popular or just the flavor pf the month
Most characters within the last 10-15 years haven’t stuck, it seems as if DC and Marvel at a point where their characters from the 40s-90 hey hey hey hey Patty s have grown such a large shadow than anything after them feels like poor facsimile on top of that newer writers are less concerned on the lore, symbolism and morality of characters and more focused on the “identity” instead, because of this they rely on the characters outward characteristics which can’t stick on it’s so they attach it to a far more identity person
I kinda like Punchline since she isn't really meant to be sympathetic, she's just a horrible person.
Ghost maker…
@@Riqo2Suave we need more sideways. Hes. Really good
Talia and Anissa are alike in many ways where the morality of the heroes we follow is a foreign and alien concept to them, their entire life they were taught and shown that strength is the only right course of action, those w the power to rule have that birth right, it’s why things like sexual intimacy aren’t black and white w them, the men they crave are powerful and to them the act of procreation is another part of that power struggle, it’s no different than killing or assaulting which they both have 0 qualms about, when your entire culture is rooted in violence it makes sense sex isn’t where they’d draw the line in terms of getting what they want
Anissa is way better than Taila could ever be
I love your videos keep it up man ❤
Personally I think that the downfall of writing Talia as a character began with Batman Beyond’s weird inter generational body swap seducing the prospective son in law plot. It was absolutely impossible to see Ra’s and Talia as anything but nonsensical after that. Like compare it to the BTAS adventures where there was pathos and an atmosphere of dignity to them both. Then we get “yucky, I kissed an old man in a girls body” and he has a man voice in her body? Can anyone see this episode without finding it to be a downgrade compared to the BTAS ones? It’s really no wonder that after that the future writers decided “the Al Ghul family is just asinine and random” and threw out the characterization that made them compelling.
Talia isnt his best love interest thats Cat
Something I wish they can do with Talia is make her relationship with Damian alot more complex like have it that she does love him but can't love him in a way that is healthy she after all raised him to be an assassin and that included putting him through hard and grosume training since he was born and she isolated him and deprived him from his childhood and placed really high expectations on him but she still loves him even abusive parents do love their children but in a way that's not healthy or helpful for their children that's a very complex issues and I think it would be more interesting if Damian and Talia had a more complex relationship rather than her straight up trying to kill him
For me, Bruce’s true love will always be Catwoman. They are perfect together.
Catwoman is also toxic and not good.
Batman's best love would always be Zatanna.
@@huntertezz catwoman when written well*
@@huntertezz so she's perfect for Bruce then
Zatanna is way too good to be with Bruce
Tell that to “Nightwing #52”
@@Joey-vs4fr using a non canon one off situation where she and Batman at the time weren't even together doesn't prove your point
I still ship Bruce with Selina. Sorry.
Same
Who doesn't
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO
7:10 She walks in there with two Bat Men and Batman’s like, “Really? Little on the nose, Talia.”
What’s really criminal is they got rid of her accent is some versions
I'm shock you didn't mention their Arrowverse counterpart, since they tried to make her more simpathethic & she even got a Kinda Happy ending when she lefts with Thea & Nyssa to Build a New League of Shadows
Same with her in the Hush ending on eath In the Family(which is implied in this universe that Talia concieved jim without telling Bruce instead of the whole Non Consent)
Ra's and Talia are my favorite Batsy villains since Neil Adams drew them to perfection back in the day. So when Talia ended up the mama of Batsys son was perfect for me : )
The thumbnail reminds me of THAT uhyeah video
Wow i acutally didn't know this was tailas character im glad you made this video now i know what her character truly is and not misinformed.
So basically what happened to Syndell from mortal combat.
3:49 my fav part about this episode 😂even tho it isn’t shown, when Talia appears she got Bruce all kinds of flustered and it is SO CUTE 🥰 and you can tell this is the first time Bruce is like that because Dick is like “wth happened between y’all? Who is SHE! And how she got you acting like this?!”
ngl seeing ppl finally speak up abt the character assassination of talia al ghul is so... nice. it means smth to me bc ive been defending her since i found out about the bullshit retcon morrison had written (especially when you add in the layer of racism on this whole thing-dc fandom is just. eugh.)
her continuous character assassination is the reason why i grew so tired of dc comics-they retconned/forgave harley quinn's past actions so quickly but never did that w talia... so seeing ppl finally realize that its bad & shes been character assassinated for 20+ years is just really nice. thx for making this video ❤
Hot take:
Although I love Batman with Catwoman, I think Wonder Woman and Batman is the best pairing.
I mean, think about it, in any continuity where the pair date they don’t go through anywhere near the amount of drama that does with his other love interest . It’s almost like their personalities play off of each other quite well or something.
I think Zatanna is best.
they were never a thing outside of JLU
Talia, my darling, Dc and its racist writers who ruin your character could never make me hate you and how good you could have been and is.
Im still happy (happy is a big word) that lately they have been trying to make an effort with her character, mostly as a mother and hopefully next between her and bruce which I do believe in that one dream bruce had where all his loved ones were dead, her name was also on one of the gravestones.
I dont mind her being a villain still, just with proper writing and tge original complexity of her morals
I just think they could have done so much better and if i were to wish for things that would never happen, Id hope a whole series of issues on her past with her father and siblings, her relationship with bruce and her early thoughts on Damian.
Racism has nothing to do with this and you know it kid.
If you're reading the current Detective Comics run, she's actually there helping and protecting Bruce at his lowest.
Besides, I am a fan of the rape retcon
@MEnterprises01 you should make a video about Black cat she's also simular to talia in the way that marvel kind of ruined her but its also the misconception that she's just a toxic girl that only loves spider-man and while there partially true overtime she eventually came around to love both sides of spiderman but by the time she came around peter was already married to mj. plus she barely gets any adaptations most adaptations just have peter end up with mj which is getting really boring and repetive.
Good idea
0:01 talia in this dress is so FINE AF like i was so down bad when i saw her in it
Judd winick is the worst thing to happen to Talia that dude is disgusting
Kinda bothers me you never mentioned her relationship with Nyssa
Same especially since she brainwashed and tortured Talia in death and the maidens into hating Batman
It's definitely one of those situations where trying to inject very mundane real world violence into a story that's primarily about fantasy adventuring will almost always go over poorly. The dissonance between serious and unserious is just too great.
I've only known Talia's appearances in the animated series so it's cool to find out that she had more nuance in the OG comic
Talia actually first became evil in the comics (prior to Morrison’s run) due to Nyssa (her sister) murdering her over and over and bringing her back until she went crazy/turned evil during the Death of the Maidens storyarc in 2003. Morrison basically just expanded off of that afterwards.
Lots of people blame Morrison for turning Talia evil, but she became that way years prior to him taking over Batman.
Batman. And. Taila. Al. Guhal. Are. A. Good. Couple
I never like her and her son but at least I’m honest besides if I was going to Batman have a son with a villain (which Catwoman doesn’t count these days I still would have her carrying Helena Wayne) would be the Flash villain Golden Glider which I looked at tumbler saying that she is a anti Batman and that their son would have a golden knight.
I've always wanted to dig in to those old Dennis O'Neal stories. It's pronounced "Denny," btw.
Talia is far > than Selina.
Both are mid
You know comics have a very bad character assassination problem. I mean we have Tahlia R.p batman, scott summers and how he handled Madelyn, we have literally everyone involved in one more day, wally west killing a bunch of heroes, ant man and his backhand. Thats just off the top of my head.
hope they adapt her great in Brave and the Bold
*Dude, you Jamaican?* You said “gyal who shall not be named.”
Shout out to when Talia was gonna basically destroy the whole world and acted like a possessive psycho with Bruce and Damien…..
Character assasination.
6:43 Nah, Origins is just plain better writing that in retrospect puts in perspective how Paul Dini writing quality dropped and how a lot of mindset of "hype moments, shit character use" in the making of Suicide Squad game was present through out the series. Ra's and Strange were done so dirty and Scarecrow use in Knight is sad while Batman is fluctuates from being the most basic protagonist who does stupid shit and learns nothing about cooperation, and actually great use of Kevin Conroy talent (RIP the GOAT, people took him for granted).
I think City is still great despite the flaws and while Ra's and Hugo were great villains I think the final Battle dipped.
Talia shouldn't be rapist and she shouldn't kiss Jason. I also definitely prefer her confliction - she loves her father but doesn't see eye to eye with him completely
If Bruce is going to have a "dangerous" love interest, it might as well be Selina. But like... not actually dangerous. Because psychos don't deserve love
Ra's: "The only woman you've ever loved"
Selina: "Boy bye!"
She was also in CWs Arrow. She helped train Oliver. She wasn't as bad as in TDK rises but she wasn't too good either.
In the comics Nyssa was the reason Talia went evil.
She tortured and killed Talia until she went insane.
It's insane how Grant Morrison thought retconning Damian's concept to Taila Bill Cosbying Bruce was a good idea.
THANK GOD IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT HER MAKING OUT WITH JASON WAS EUGH
not the relationship between Bruce and Barbara
Need a good movie adaption for them cuz what 🙏🙏 I've only seen Talia's character in the DCAU, to which her initial character seemed to be caring, charismatic, knowledgeable, and confident only to change to what I can summarize as 'nasty bitch'
let's box at Atlanta bro
A lot of times I hear people saying that Talia is “too deep in her father’s beliefs” that she’d never disobey him when that’s not true. In Batman Chronicles #8 she disobeyed her father because she wasn’t able to kill Batman. And in Red Hood: Lost Days she disobeyed her father and saved Jason by putting him in the Lazarus pit as a last resort.
Since Son Of The Demon is one of James Gunn's favourite comics, I hope he'll help in Brave and The Bold to write her character and fix the mischaracterisation she had
I still love Talia. She reminds me of a Bond girl.
Solid takes overall, but there's one thing.
As someone who thinks Batman should be straight up asexual, aint no way Talia's better than Selina Kyle. She a criminal but at least she isnt a racist with a p
When was Talia racist.
Also best is always gonna be Zatanna.
Asexual? BATMAN? Bruce Wayne!?
@@altalia07 Bruce Wayne no but Batman? Absolutely
With all that physicality? I think he would be very sexual, if not in the most conventional manner.
This is a terrible opinion. No.
In Arkham City game: Bruce basically informs one of Talia's lady gangsters that he has to talk to her boss, who happens to be his ex-girlfriend; he could use those terms to get it across to the girl gangster just who he is to her female boss if he wants to address some issues... but he clearly does NOT choose his girlfriends well, really at all.
He chose two that I know of: one of them is a robber who'd steal everything not positively nailed down, and maybe also everything that *is* nailed down, the other is his bastard girlfriend, herself, who basically date-raped him... he does NOT vet his dates well, really at all!