One Major Bug is Ruining My Cities in Cities Skylines 2, So Here's My Plan
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- One major bug is breaking all of my builds. As a result, I'm planning on slowing much of my Cities Skylines 2 content until the issue is resolved. I'm also adjusting my release schedule due to the increased difficulty of creating content for CS2.
Nothing but love to the game and devs and hope that we see the issues resolved, but I'm making this to explain the decision, and imploring the devs to focus on fixing this big bugs quickly.
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Hey everyone. This is the mod that fixed my land value issues. Be sure to read the entire description so that you fully understand how this will change your save!
Land Value Overhaul - thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/Jimmyok/LandValueOverhaul/
Oooh thanks for sharing this, I’m going to try it right now.
If I may request sir? I really love if you produce a content with city skylines 1 with all the DLC. I really love your story making, music, and voice. Its very relaxing and enjoyable after a hard day at work.
The mod I choose to use is callled Cities2Mods_RenterAndLandValuePolicy and it works to solve this as well!
A bug is a problem in coding.
This seems like bad simulation design more than a bug. They intended the system to work in that specific mathematical way, but in practice, it's a bad model. What you need is Alpha-Beta testing to give feedback on the specific land value system and tweak it as game balance issue.
TLDR, most likely, their simulation model sucks and it's not as well thought out.
I just don't understand how modders are able to "fix" certain bugs in the game while CO developers are not able to. I'd hate to be unfair to the devs but can anyone explain why this is?
"User decisions don't seem to matter"...yep 100% agree. Well put together video Phil and like yourself I really hope this can be fixed 🙏
Yep, I even suggested people to watch your 40min video too Biffa. I really enjoyed it!
I don't really think they are going to change the 'user decision' part. They clearly said multple times they have reached their gameplay goals on release. They also have soooooooo much work to do the coming year (editors, mod platform, bug fixes, DLC development) that a complete overhaul of the simulation to allow more user interaction is probably not going to happen. I do agree this is the most major turn off for me for this game.
Well you have two series from CS1 that we would love to see be completed!!
I watched the Biffa video yesterday and Phil's video today and both make me feel so much better about the thoughts I've had about CS2. I love the game but I wish the simulation was more user and creative friendly.
this sounds like the same problem that doomed SimCity (Simcity 5). Maybe a different cause, but decisions in that game seemed to matter very little from what I remember.
Great video Phil and well said. We definitely shouldn’t have to rely on mods to fix these bugs so early in the games release.
When are the mods gonna just build a rival game??? 😊
@@elliotwilliams7421 now that’s a bloody good thought
@@twodollarstwenty get the crowd funder going
Omg where have you been!? I use to watch you so much and then you just disappeared from my suggestions.
True, from the start it seemed like CO just said "ok let the modders do the things, we don't care. Mods will fix it", so sad.
i think one of the worst things is that no one actually seems to own a home
That, in itself, is ridiculous.
Sounds like real life 😂
You want a new system of actual property owning, while half of the systems in the game already are not working properly or not at all?
Come on 😅
“You will own nothing, and you will be happy.”
They really pushing for that 2023 realism :D
I truly hope CO is listening carefully. CPP commenting here, Biffa with his recent video and supporting comment below this one, TDT, Infrastructurist, Diana, Joy, Fly, etc... the list goes on! I know they each have their own emphasis, but all the top content creators seem to be in general agreement with the major issues. They are speaking for all of us, in a respectful and measured way. And there is also a repeating theme that many of them are pulling back on creating content or changing their schedules in some way until some of this is fixed.
I just hope CO can do that soon, and in a manner that matches what Biffa has suggested (incl. the 'humility'). If not, my fear is that the game will lose its momentum if this goes on too long. Honestly, serious fans will still come back... I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't come back, even 6 months from now or longer, once they get things fixed. I'm a sucker for city builders, and I'll always be willing to come back if the game has been improved.
But casual fans are different. They could be gone for good once the momentum is lost, and then the market for content creators would dry up, fewer views, and interest in DLC will be slimmer. If that happens, the game could meet the same fate as SimCity 2013, and it will feel like déjà vu all over again (CO's 2024 failure opening the door to someone else, just like EA did in 2013).
I really don't want that to be the history that gets written, but I think CO is being foolish if they don't recognize the risk of it going that direction. Please CO, don't focus your energy on complaining about perceived "toxicity"... true fans really want things to turn around and for your product to be successful! I would love to see this get fixed and have years of happy DLCs and for me to be able to keep throwing my money at you! But right now, that's not the way this is going.
It looks to me like CO is putting up a bit of a smokescreen by complaining about the "toxicity" from its customers. A lot of corporations and companies are using that strategy today when it comes to addressing subpar service and products.
Unless upper management gets switched or punished extremely harshly, there is going to be no change. The decisions are shortsighted and selfish, mostly centered around well-being of decision maker, not the company in its long-term existence and hence the utter mess we end up with.
CO: "UwU our paying customers who we totally cheated out of money by a sub-par game are meanies!"
Us: "Please take responsibility and maybe fix things?"
CO: "NO! Maybe in DLC. If you pay."
@@GordonNadezda Sadly I think that's the case, you're right. Whether it's CO themselves or PDX's marketing ppl telling CO how to spin it, I'm not sure. But either way, the infamous toxicity comment was certainly an ill-considered response.
Truthfully, I appreciate that the CO team must be under a lot of stress right now, and I'm guessing Mariina is caught between pressure from PDX and pressure from the community, and the toxicity comment (which she probably regrets at this point) was likely a product of that pressure.
That all said, my sympathy only goes so far, because they aren't taking the exit strategy that's being offered to them. Many individuals have suggested how they can begin to turn this around (Biffa being the best example) but they haven't taken that truly to heart. He spoke about humility and honesty... I've only seen that in half-measure from the CO team in response to the latest videos, which isn't enough right now.
My issue with all of these content creators is that none of them were upfront about the problems when they made their first videos.
HOLY SMOKES! It's a face....completely not what I had in my head, but I'm loving it, glad to see you now. Congrats on your unique style and success.
Right?! Thank you! Totally expected a different face, lol! Glad I wasn't the only one.
Yeah y'all definitely aren't alone! Been watching for years but this is my first time seeing his face! Trying to reprogram my brain now! 😂
I thought of a blond guy with almost no beard, I got surprised!
@@ParkerTyler NOW you've said it. Reprogramming my brain here too. Gotcha, Mr. CityPlanner. I like FewCandy best, and she’s been visual. I can’t remember if I’ve seen Biffa. I believe Egg is next. DANG, if you’ve seen Let’s Game It Out. He has a very entertaining voice (I’m in entertainment) and it took me forever/long time to find him out, he has maybe 1 or 2 pictures online anywhere, very not what I was expecting, but a very nice very cool guy from what I’ve seen, same as for CityPlanner.
@@ContonoYT Same, and I'm enjoying it.
"Jeffery can't afford the rent." 😂 Lemonade sells can only get you so far.
he's selling weed at school, don't see how it could do it otherwise.
@kevinconrad6156 "Hey yo Mr. White, wanna cook?"
Jeffery has cranked the prices up and the AI is yet to respond by not buying the lemonade, haha.
Preview of upcoming child labour DLC?!
@@Zyo117 Bring forth the RV.
Very well put - and fair and constructive criticism. I also find myself reliant on mods to make the game really interesting, which is a bit of a shame as my initial thoughts during early-access was that CS2 would greatly reduce mod reliance, benefitting console players or people with lower end rigs massively.
Why didn't they implement a version of "moveit" or "traffic manager" that would address a lot of issues.
Move it can't be in the base game, it has way too much functionality that can reasonably be reported as bugs. Traffic Manager doesn't suffer from the same issue though, at least for the most part - and to be frank, I don't think the game *needs* Traffic Manager, unlike the first one, which is just painful to play without it due to traffic AI nonsense.
@@Xiyng The game certainly doesn't need either of the mods, but the real lack of control over AI behavior at intersections makes many types of intersections just improve to build
@@Xiyng all of Moveit, sure that'd be too much control, but there are essential tools that many people will refuse to create content or play cities without these shortcuts.
@@Xiyng you don't need traffic manager because the traffic simulation doesn't work properly either
Well said, Phil. It's frustrating as someone who has been a part of the city builder community for decades. This game is just not ready and that has shown with the recent decisions that CO/PDX have made surrounding its development. I hope they can get it together and bring it up to the level it needs to be, but delaying bugfixes like this is not the way to do that. I've abandoned the game myself, and I've found myself watching less and less CS2 content as time goes on because it's painful to watch everyone struggle with the game only to build cities that look the same in the end. For the first time in years, CPP actually fell off of my RUclips subscriptions "short list" in the past few weeks. That was a saddening realization, because I love your channel and your content, but the game is getting in the way.
Lack of mod support is perhaps the final nail in the coffin for me. I just can't get my head around the fact that this wasn't included from day one. I've been writing mods to fix the game, but with PDX Mods looming overhead, I know that my code is going to need to be entirely rewritten once the official tools are released, so I and my fellow developers are withholding work on the bigger projects (Move It 2, TMPE 2, etc) pending the release of PDX Mods to the public branch. That keeps getting pushed further and further back, exacerbating the issues the game has and leaving them without fixes either from CO or the modding community. It's not a good time to be a fan of city builders, and it's even more frustrating being a content creator or modder.
All true. Equally sad about it myself.
The sad thing about delaying bug fixes is that releasing updates takes time, which probably eats into the time available for actually fixing the bugs. In other words, releasing bug fixes more frequently actually means fixing fewer bugs. Still, considering the state of the game, I agree with you that releasing bug fix updates more frequently is the way to go, even if it slows down the rate of the fixes somewhat, because it's clearly important to the community.
Maybe I have no idea but how is CS2 any differnent from CS1 in terms of the basic simulation? The mechanics are pretty much the same, demand, production, education, etc. There are a lot of improvements in the building aspect of the game, but surely the codebase for the simulation could have been mostly reused and/or tested with the new engine, if that is what they used? It might be that they had to build the game from scratch though.
They are working on PDX modding right now but it seems Paradox (and CO management) asked too much from the dev team. And looking at the planned feature list, it's likely devs themselves who have contributed to the complexity. Result being, it will take further months to getting it released in a state that doesn't need immediate fixing afterwards. It might be faster to revert to Steam, but there's no sign of any such decision (yet?).
Very well put, thank you.
I completely agree with your assessment and I was shocked to hear that CO was moving on from rapid bug fixing to longer periods between releases. Knowing it could be weeks or months before some of these major problems get resolved is really disheartening.
Let's be realistic, CO can't sustain the frequency of bug fix releases. "Easy fixes" are mostly done, now they face complex fixes that affect the whole simulation. Even just testing those fixes will take weeks instead of days. They absolutely need to collect a number of fixes for a release, otherwise their fix rate will sink even further.
As someone who works in the video game industry but not for CO, it's possible that the decision was not related to low user retention/growth or decisions coming from CO's execs, but a combination of both & trying to do everything possible to ensure no layoffs occur.
The 'panini' was great for the online entertainment & video game industry as a whole - everyone was at home playing video games and learning how to socialize online. Mass hirings occurred in order to keep up with all the demand from the consumers & an increased demand for additional content. Post C19, a majority of people have returned to socializing in person, which is great - except the industry has been absolutely hammered. There are now too many different kinds of games on the market, and people have diversified their tastes.
Games as a Service - which is something cities skylines 1 & 2 are - only work if you have the user retention. CO is following the lifecycle of most Games as a Service. A lot of their issues will get fixed, but it will take time. How much of that they have is going to depend on how many people are willing to hold out for them.
@@drgnballz girl bye. They needa fix that shyt ASAP . Ain’t no way I’m paying $100 for a bugged unfinished game. They brought this on themselves
@@NobleWolf33 It's so amazing how the first game was in contrast to the hubristic Sim City 5.
@@NobleWolf33 Okay, then don't? No one is arguing that they don't need to fix these issues, or that it's compulsory for you to buy something you don't think is worth it. Cities Skylines also isn't a triple A game with a price tag worth $100, which is why they don't market it as such (unless you want to buy the Ultimate Edition, in which case that's still a choice you make).
100% agree here. Theres absolutely no depth to the simulation due to the land value bug and lack of feedback and tools. CPP did a great job of breaking things down so CO, please pay attention.
Cs was always like this sim city gameplay was always way better even 2013
The traffic sim being completely abstracted away also makes this feel doubly true
well said, i REALLY hope they fix all these bugs it's too much.
CPP is one of the larger creators who CO can't just ignore and also due to the fact that he's asking the same thing players are, without making it seem toxic. As always Good stuff👍
I'm **almost** expecting CO to double down and say something truly disconnected like, "A city planner game isn't the right game for City Planner Plays since he isn't enjoying it."
@@nickd5343 He doesn't have (much) issue with the core mechanics of the game though, so that doesn't seem likely. I think CO's reaction is fair, because changing the core mechanics at this point would probably be difficult and alienate a part of the current ownerbase - the price CO has to pay, of course, is losing a part of their audience.
There are things which are understandable, and you can forgive for either not being included or buggy. But I find it disgusting, given the state the game is in (including Biffas’ video), that they are even saying the words “DLC”. They should be pushing DLC back and creating a proper roadmap of bug fixes until the game is playable and enjoyable. Especially for you and all other content creators.
I think people will be torn on that, reason #1 is that people paid for 4 DLC's already (roughly) last year, one which hasn't released last quarter, and there were supposed to be 2 more this quarter. They didn't pay for nothing.
Reason #2, people are desperate for assets just for variety... Even if bugs are still present.
I also suggested that out of goodwill they release a little free DLC for everyone that includes some assets like smaller schools, train stations, elevated train station and maybe a few extra office, residential and commercial assets and parks that can really make a difference.
If the DLCs that will bring bug fixes include free ones, I think it's not a terrible thing overall. My biggest concern with the DLC talk is that they mean actual new systems that can also be buggy/break things and not asset packs. I'm fine with asset pack DLCs being released, it's not like the art department has any work to do for fixing the simulation and it let's CO have some money coming in.
All of that caveated with "fix the damn bugs!"
I think the issue is that the bugs need to be fixed by programmers and systems engineers, whereas the company has many staff who don't do those things such as staff in the assets pipelines. So if assets are being pumped out by the assets staff teams, it makes sense to release them.
Without DLC they never would have made the game in the first place. “Disgusting” is a pretty emotional word. I work in software development and there’s a number of really tough decisions that have to be made. I don’t work in the video game arena but I know that they are often pushed to make their dev team do unpaid overtime and already have quite high work loads. So I would be a bit more patient on their dev team and try to understand that without dlc on the roadmap there would have been no chance of cities skylines even being made. Did they ship it before it was ready? Yes. Are they prioritizing the right items, I’m not certain. What I am hypothesizing is that dlc was already well underway at the time of launch. So they probably have one team working on dlc and one team working on bug fixes. It’s a bit less work for them to ship the items together since you have a review process of updates and such when using third party stores, like steam. I’m just trying to play devils advocate as there are so many people with zero experience in modern software development or product management that get quite negative and opinionated about these things
@@japes7 I get the concept of what you’re saying about already paid for DLCs, and agree. But we all also already paid for a functioning decent base game - and no one has received that. So while the owed DLCs are important, the base game really needs to be the ultimate priority.
I agree with all your points. Too many bugs, not enough features in my opinion.
There's a few design decisions that I think are odd, although not necessarily game breaking:
1: That horrible white or blue overlay whenever you select the zoning or power tools.
2: Why don't the citizens own their home? As a city builder, I don't think it should be our problem if rent is too high.
3: Seasons. The thought is alright, but the implementation is terrible. I don't like how cold and dark things get in winter, and if you have a snow map, the snow doesn't behave like real snow. I live in Alberta, I know what real snow looks like.
4: No weather toggle. Related to my previous point, but it would be nice if we could just turn the weather and seasons off.
5: Optimization. This might be a me problem, but when cities 2 was first announced, my specs beat the recommended specs, but when CO updated them, my specs were lower than the minimum. The game makes my pc run very hot and I think I've heat stressed some components.
I'm going to be hopping on the bandwagon and making my own video with my gripes tonight. I don't agree with CO'S decision to keep bug fixes to a dlc schedule. It almost makes me want to go back to cities 1, or a different game all together.
I would add to that that some features seem to be implemented badly deliberatly for a later DLC to make money off. The most obvious example is the new industries. What is this? you get to make a polygon which gets filled by a boring texture with random assets spawning in random rotation around it? It should have been a basic version of the industries DLC from cities skylines one with a DLC improving it in my opinion.
For example making the assets that spawn buildings in their respective industry with some basic stats, connecting them by alleys or even indsutry specific roads to be able to give your industry a good look. idk if I am alone on this one but as it is right now it looks ridiculous/bad.
Seeing issues like this pointed out makes me glad I never jumped at the game. I'll stick with CS1 and wait until they get the game sorted out before I try to play
I'd be pretty happy watching more Anno, and I've enjoyed watching you play other city planners as well! But I'm actually especially excited for more CS1 content, since my computer couldn't possibly run CS2 so I won't be able to play it until I get a whole new set up 😅
Definitely prioritize your mental health Phil, I'll still be here watching the channel, regardless of your schedule!
Thing is, Anno isnt really a city builder, it's a logistics game e
btw the simulation bug with Jeffrey exists like that for Traffic too
my streets were completely gummed up with cars so i went and looked who was driving where. Turns out, a whole bunch of cars where empty and driven by dead people. hmmm. thats... "inconventient" to say the least. in my case, it lead to the case where most of my traffic was just dead people looking for parking spots. in a city with free and frequent public transit where i deliberately dont build parking to disincentivize car usage.
also when you demolish the automated parking garage, the cars are left in the air with no way to remove them
dead people looking for parking spots sounda like a sweet short horror story, wow
And then you have people walking along train tracks.
If “dead people looking for parking spots” doesn’t sum up the state of the game, I don’t know what else will. 😂
Have you tried the anarchy mod with the improved bulldozer mod? You can delete cars with it
@@corgasaurus4933 The issue is that that shouldn’t be necessary, not that it is fully u solvable. Mods should not be needed to make a game playable at launch.
Totally on board with the new schedule, and I’m super excited to see some CS1 content again! I’ve been loving Magnolia County, and I’m still super pumped for CS2 to keep developing! I think with enough time it’ll be the de facto standard for city builders, but I think you’re right: right now it’s not cutting it. Keep up the good work ❤
Happy to hear the your are choosing your sanity and well being (and therefore quality) over the schedule.
Myself, I've decided to leave the game until the official mod platform is released (for various reasons) and this has affected my enthousiasm for CS2 content, too. So I'm actually happy with fewer video's because I do want to watch them all.
This is the same thing as was telling Biffa yesterday. My main problem is that i meet major bugs, that breaks my city. Next month this game has been out for half a year now, to put things in contex. Or what content creators had the hand on, and early game footage. We where told that we had major CS1 modders making things in CS2, seen anything to that? no.. Game is still in alpha in my eyes. Think that we payed 100 dollars for this. Still game breaking. I did put down the game for a few months now, to see if things where better. But i still meet things that breaks my city
Hitting us with the 2:15am upload? Don't mind if I do.
Fully agree. Its a shame because the game has so much potential. The game was released too early. One year more bugfixing, testing and balancing and this game would be awesome. All the core mechanics are in the game but they are messed up and some seem completely untested before release. I really hope CO can fix this mess over time. It would be devastating to the genre if they dont.
Exactly, it essentially makes the release a long-term beta test.
Honestly, that's the state of games these days. Release it too early and get free beta testing.
@@dinguloid And Early Access is a thing. We pay you to test your game, and you get to chalk everything up to "it's Early Access".
Why they made a conscious decision to launch a broken game at full release...baffling. Unless you want to believe that the decade they spent gaining player trust and loyalty convinced them they could do what they wanted and we'd just take it.
Could be. You decide.
@@dr.bherrin people are less likely to buy into early access. Release it broken and get the sales, then try to fix it. Even AAA games are doing this. It's endemic. They DO think we'll just take it, because they keep selling, so "we" are.
@@dinguloid People need to just start pirating games to try them before they buy
SimCity 2013 all over again! The sad thing is, I actually would enjoy playing that more than Cities: Skylines 2 in its current state. Never thought I would see such a misstep from Colossal Order.
I feel for the content creators, because it, as you said, would be very difficult to keep producing decent quality content with all these bugs. But more worryingly, at least with what I've noticed with myself, is engagement. I've been watching your videos for years now, but with the state of C:S2 and not getting enjoyment out of it myself, I've mostly tuned out of your videos. Which is not an easy thing to say as I usually love your content.
Very calm, honest and constructive feedback, I hope CO take note, especially around the cadence for bug fixes. Been a fan of yours for ages now, I personally love the background stories you create for your cities, it really brings them to life. Long may it continue! :)
Honestly, alot of this reads to me as both Publisher, aswell as player pressure.
Publisher pressure, because they wanted to get the game out before christmas. Makes sense from a publisher perspective. Similarily, from a publisher perspective, anything that doesnt make the initial cut, gets worked around etc by release, simply is content or stuff that can be disregarded for now, and MAYBE brought back in DLC. Or even "fixed" by the community, which is way more often seen when you already know that your community WILL fix it. As an example, all other Paradox titles tend to have this very same issue, core components of the game are broken on release, then have to be adressed by the community, until the studio FINALLY gets to it after half a year or by the first release.
Which in turn is still better than BGS funilly enough, there are still F4 bugs that exist since game release.
On the other side, we do have a bit of pressure from the player side, and as much as I will always say that this isnt necessarily a bad thing - it does amplify publisher pressure.
Nowadays we live in a Gaming Community which both refuses to accept titles being pushed back, and even slightly bad releases. Which, in and of itself, is a GOOD thing. However unless the game already is 100% certain on all sides to be fine by release, that goal will never be reached.
I remember how around release of CS2, everyone was echoing "this game shouldve released in March instead!!". Oftentimes, those very same people wouldve been pissed af had it been delayed to March.
We do slightly see what I mean with all this with another game, although that one is very much a special case: Star Citizen.
There is no publisher. This is good, because CIG can work on the features they want, until they are actually done. This is also bad, because this leads to so many delays, its become a community joke.
There is however PLENTY player pressure. More than with CS2, and most games infact. Players want to see the game advance. So oftentimes Star Citizen will see half baked features release, partially so the player base can test them out, for another so that CIG can pump ANYTHING out at times.
CS2 is just one of those games where imo, the saying "doomed if you do, doomed if you dont" works just as much, as NMS showed why studios should really not do ANY marketing beyond what they already have in the game.
Release it by October 24? We get what we have today.
Push it back another 6 months, or maybe a year? People will be pissed, and expect an EVEN BETTER product.
Also I think the reason they are stepping away from focusing 100% on bugfixing, is probably because they still need to actually push stuff for the other editions. Its been almost half a year, and still no Japan theme. Which is probably why.
Hey @CityPlannerPlays I strongly believe you'd enjoy Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic. Its a little less "pretty" than Cities, and the UI/UX is definitely... a "hurdle" but its a solid cross between a City Builder and Logistics management game. The devs have been hard at work since 2019! Adding new mechanics and maintaining the game, even as very small indie compared to CO. It's a game that really rewards people who plan and pre-think all of their expansions and layouts. I think with your experience you'd be able to pick up the core mechanics quick"ish" and be able to put out content for it.
I think it would really benefit from a large streamers coverage, to bring more people over. It's got a relatively albeit somewhat out-of-date workshop scene.
Also been a viewer for a long time, and appreciate the content you put out. Glad you (and Biffa) are able to put out your honest issues with Cities.
Solid bump for Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic, comrade! It's a smaller dev team than CO but much better managed. They are very careful about not over-promising yet are quite good at being broadly responsive to their customers. Its title might put some people off given Putin's current attempts to rebuild the Soviet empire in Ukraine but the devs are Slovakian, not Russian.
That actually sounds super fun! Let's give it a try.
Yes please. I could use some of his guidance with W&R, that game is HARD.
I would love to see his approach to Workers and Resources (WR). The way Phil plays Cities Skylines (SC) is very different from what you can do in WR, so it would be a very different play style. Considering the fact that it takes quite a while to master WR, I hope that Phil can somehow manage to learn the ropes and test how the channel likes it.
so much appreciation for transparency and the line “these changes will be good for my mental health” - more creators need to normalize adjusting their content schedule to fit their needs especially since you’ve addressed dealing with creative burnout because of the content pressure of your schedule. I love your content but mental health is always priority!!
thank you for discussing this and also setting a precedent for demanding better from developers. there will be so much more pressure on them to do better if their major cities channels are halting production on content due to the bugs. thank you 👏🏻
I was playing CS2 earlier this morning and at one point I stopped and said to myself that I can't do this anymore for all the reasons you've just said. Bugs, lack of assets etc. Its not fun anymore and has just become frustrating. I decided to go back to CS1 after months of not playing and I've spent all day on a brand new city and haven't been this excited than I have been In months. Just going to give the devs time to do their thing and hopefully sort this game out. I've spent 1000hrs on my previous CS1 city before CS2 came out. If I spend another 1000 hrs on this new one, I would think that that is hopefully enough time for Colossal Order to sort out CS2 LOL
Thanks for explaining the land value bug. I had noticed it but couldn't identify how (the lack of tools) a month or two ago and put off playing it. With 300 hours I got my money's worth but it's basically unplayable from and urban planning standpoint. Really hope colossal and PDX sort this. Definitely gonna hold off on prison architect 2 and both of my CS2 cities because of this.
It breaks my heart that the Beginners Guide series has been put on hold, but it's totally understandable given the issues.
Considering that series was the only thing keeping me playing CS2, I've got no reason to open it anymore (wanted to do the whole series before starting my own city)
It's crazy that the city I've built is almost 100% identical to Twotoria but because of bugs in the game I've got $200,000,000+ in money and somehow 5k more people.
Bring back the chair
🪑
This just made my day 😂
Fantastic video. You’ve summed up exactly the problems I’m seeing. As a retired developer and leader of developers I have the question the leadership of CO. There number one priority should be fixing bug followed by modding support.
One other concern is the number of empty buildings you get when your cities gets larger. There's no information as to why (maybe high rent) and no way to track it down.
tbh I never experienced the land value bug but yeah the game is literally unplayable without mods by now... thanks for the video I hope this will finally reach CO
I had the feeling something was "off" with this stuff, thanks for clarifying it.
But for me, the biggest bug making me shut down the game is the public transport getting stuck constantly when my city gets to around 100k. I love playing around with buses, trains and trams and whatnot, it's like the game telling me the flow is too good - let's do something about that..
I'm... actually really glad to see cities: skylines 1 making a comeback! Clearwater County, Nicolet Bay, and especially (fixing) Bluffside Crossing had been some of my favorite series, and I really wish to seem them continue and eventually getting a proper wrap-up. I also love the more storytelling elements added to Magnolia County, as I find myself feeling more connected to Bend as the series progress on. I really hope C:S2 will get the overhauls and bug fixes it deserves... but for the moment, I would stay on C:S1 (more because of I don't have the hardware to run it, X-P). Thanks for bringing us some of the best city builder content out there!
There's absolutely no management required whatsoever. For my first city, I had no idea what I was doing and it was completely fine. By about level 6/7 city size I was in the green. There's no gameplay whatsoever. Basically a sandbox with no assets unlike CS1.
That is CS2 in a nutshell. The game tries to make sure you can't fail and actively protects you from it. It doesn't really matter what you do. There's lots of stuff you can fiddle with but almost no reason to do so (and no clear indication of what happens when you do fiddle with half of it). It's just pointless.
I remember CO's CEO being baffled by the idea that people might want a "hard mode" where you have to actually manage things, which says all that needs to be said about how this game was built.
well said
Yeah, that's my main problem with the game. It's so, so, so very boring. All you do is draw in roads, plop services etc, zone the wonky af grid and repeat in an adjacent area.
@@Narangarath it may be boring, but boring isn't always bad. i mean people play trucking simulators after all
@@jpeters1734 That's fair, although with a truck simulator you have clearly defined objectives and a goal you're aiming for. CS2 feels to me like repeating the same few things over and over and over without any of it having any purpose. There's no challenge or problem solving (aside from figuring out why the game is doing something it's not supposed to) or even a goal to reach, which is boring to me on a completely different level than truck or farming simulators (even if they're not my jam either). I really, really tried to enjoy this game, got it on launch and I only got under 50 hours in so far. For contrast, Steam tells me I've spent around 3500 hours in CS1 and it still entertains me.
I have been waiting on my purchase of Cities II for just this reason. I plan on holding off until some of the major bugs are fixed. You, Biffa and Yumble are the the 3 "Cities tubers" that I watch on a regular basis. I like each of you for different reasons, I enjoy the the "story/purpose" you are giving to Magnolia county. IRL, I am a Civil Engineer that specializes in subdivisions, you wouldn't believe the issues I am dealing with on one of the projects I am working on.
Yeah the children living alone has bothered me too. There's simply no way that should be allowed for in the program, it makes no sense and it breaks the game. You and Biffa have me hooked on Timberborn at the moment
This isn't a problem that should be worked out by adding new features and mechanics. The problem shouldn't exist.@@christiangraff4754
Great video - thanks for sharing this with us! I have been loving CS2, but definitely having my eyes opened these last few days as well-known figures in the community have been posting their videos. I how the devs are able to address some of these bugs soon. Thanks for keeping us in the loop - can't wait for the day where you can go back to aggressively posting CS2 videos ;)
I agree, waiting to release any kind of bug fixes until the release of a DLC says that they don't care about the community or the bugs present. I understand why they would do it from the financial point of view. There's just so much wrong with this.
I think it's a great idea to revisit CS1 during the interim. It's been a shame to see hard teething issues with the second title. I really love this franchise so much and want 2 to succeed. I just watched Biffa's video detailing shortcomings and possible solutions and it's nice to see the creator community working together to push for the game CS2 deserves to be. I am of the opinion that these bugs and leveling issues should be treated with more urgency and priority. I don't see why we can see bug-fix/updates to the game on a quarterly basis, at least, as they get worked out.
Well said, Phil, and, thank you for this video release. Bug squashing should be the #1 priority. Hard to build a big house (DLCs, CCPs, etc.) if your foundation (base game) isn't stable. Let's hope the team at CO is prioritizing this and making good progress.
I'm not convinced the land value thing is a bug, I think they made it that way intentionally. This follows their mantra of "the game is good" because, from their perspective, the game IS working as they intended. The problem: players do not like the systems CO has implemented in the game. Not at all.
I simply do not understand how they keep making this situation worse and worse. Over promised, under delivered. Released way too early. Tone deaf communication. Delayed bug fixes. When are they going to stop burning down all of the good will they once enjoyed from CS1? I am glad my CS2 series is only weekly; my sanity would not survive intact.
But Phil, I'll watch whatever you put out. I have enjoyed ALL of your content, so I'm not going anywhere. Do what you need to do. :)
Exactly. Not buying this game until is fully fixed
Their actual response when people complained about the simulation was "Maybe the game just isn't for you". I'd be very interested to know whether CO consider this a bug or if they just view it as part of the game mechanics and a "challenge" players have to overcome...
Even if the system is working as intended, it clearly requires a balance fix, since it's killing so many cities.
"Making the cituation worse", as you described, is how all big games are made nowadays. 😢
Totally agree with you on this. The issue is not the bugs. There are no bugs. It is the way CO designed the game. They took so many bad decisions which turned out in this crappy game. It’s sad but it’s true.
I completely agree that the bugs are too big to overcome at the current build. Right now, the mail bug is wrecking my downtown because none of the offices are getting any mail service.
I found myself constantly babysitting the Unoccupied Buildings issue because of the land value - you place a small square of industrial, but the land value immediately skyrockets making the adjacent land "unsuitable" for new industrial buildings
The land value bug is why I am not playing right now, particularly for industrial land. It kills the city. This game is currently not very fun.
It's brutal. The mod does help, but it's really a shame that we have to use it to keep our cities running.
I thought maybe it was just me that was doing something wrong. Now I see it is a general problem. I really makes the game unplayable especially for industrial and I have not played it weeks. Maybe I will try the mod. I am tempted to go play CS1 again now.
@@CityPlannerPlays I will try the mod. BUT modders should not be forced to fix or make the game fun, their purpose should be to add specific functionality or additional assets. Hopefully Paradox/Colossal Order will actually listen to the RUclips creators like yourself, Biffa and Diana. In addition they should first and foremost just apologize, it would go along way to starting to make things right. Secondly, they should publish a plan to fix the game with a detailed explanation of HOW they plan to achieve it. I feel a major problem outside of the game itself has been their terrible communication strategy, it seems a little tone deaf to the community's feelings.
Basically the entire simulation is broken imo, the game is unplayable unless you just want a city painter rather than a simulator
In case this helps, the last patch has fixed this for industrial land (for the most part) so might be worth a try.
Before it I was using the Land Value Overhaul mod and Population Rebalance mod (has teenagers actually go to high school,etc) and actually had more fun again.
"The simulation is constantly trying to balance itself **without user interaction,** completely sapping the challenge (and the fun) out of the game" I honestly had no idea what it was that was bothering me about Cities Skylines 2, or the state of modern simulation games as a whole, but this put perfectly into words what i've been feeling for a long time. I have been disenchanted from games like Planet Zoo because I don't feel like I have to do anything. Most tycoon/simulation games today seem to be doing this same exact problem: the difficulty scaling is just off, but new players are still confused and believe the game is challenging because the game itself doesnt communicate properly how to play the game at all. But despite this, the game is just "too easy" for experienced gamers. Planet Zoo pumped out a lot of DLC that was mainly just for looks and making your park look pretty. Cities Skylines one sort of had that, but at least it was fun to decorate because we had things to decorate with. Cities Skylines 2 doesn't have anything to make a city look unique or pretty. No paths, nothing to decorate with, and the disconnected gameplay mechanics and little gameplay impact that the existing mechanics have are just not visible.
So true. I wonder if it’s even possible to go bankrupt.
100% agree with this on top of which the demand for commercial is also completely broken to meet demand you will have as many shops as houses which is totally unrealistic
That drives me nuts! The constant commercial demand is insane. Its basically build low density residential and commercial over and over and over.
That's what prompted me to stop playing at the beginning. Id' try to satisfy commercial demand only to get the not enough customers complaint across half my city.
We are wondering how a child or teen can be in a house alone, so we thought up some scenarios.
A family moves into a home, because of work availability, but the player destroys that work and the parents move out, but because the teen/child is in school they stay in the house alone.
Or when you upgrade your school, the game allows a teen/child to move into a house alone.
Or a couple moves into a house and you finally add education to your city, so the couple have a child late in life. They pass away from illness because you didn't add a hospital soon enough and now the teen is alone in the house.
It's the 'TheSims' part of the game that is draining computer memory and usage, plus creating impossible scenarios that are unavoidable.
They are not addressing the core problem with the game, which is 'TheSims'.
I've been saying this a few times now, but everyone who's disappointed in Cities Skylines 2 should give Workers and Resources a try. It has a variety systems to consider when building your city and freedom in how you build all of them.
As an example, your city needs heating plants to ensure that citizens don't suffer from hypothermia. In a basic setup, you make a heating plant and have the coal for it automatically delivered. Then you set up the pipes to deliver the hot water to your residential and commercial areas. On another level, you set up roads from the heating plant to a border connection and have trucks deliver the coal to cut down on delivery costs. Alternatively, you set up a cable car, river/sea transport, freight trains, or even air transport line to move the coal from the border. Instead of importing coal, you could set up the facilities to dig up and process the coal, then figure out transportation to deliver the coal to the heating plant.
The game won't win any awards for looks, but in the places it matters Workers and Resources is impressive and amazing. Even in its current Early Access state.
"Relegating bug fixes to DLC releases sends a bad message, and the cadence is far too far apart."
I'm an avid Simmer and Sims 4 player. It's the only Sims game I've ever known (I entered the game late, I know), but it's also widely considered to be the worst iteration of the franchise so far, due in part to what you just stated about Colossal Order's decision for CS:2. It's part of the reason why TS4 is a huge cash cow for EA with up to 70+ DLC at this point, and even then, the game continues to live on with *tons* of bugs that Simmers have unfortunately just learned to live with because they rarely ever get fixed or even addressed. I would hate for CS:2 to suffer a similar fate, and I have more confidence in Colossal than EA, but yeah, it's a little more than concerning when that's the statement they're coming out with for a game in its infancy.
Relegating bug fixes to DLC releases is how Paradox has handled all of their games. Just look at EU4 and Victoria 3.
I basically just posted the same thing, although I've been playing The Sims from the very beginning. The latest pack, "For Rent" has broken core game mechanics now, basically rendering the game unplayable. I'm done with the franchise. EA has killed The Sims just like EA killed SimCity, which is what brought about CS:1. Now it seems CO/Paradox are emulating EA, and they will kill this franchise, too, if they go down that path.
To be fair, too many bug fixes in a too short of a time can cause other problems to compound. It isn't uncommon for mods and asset packs to break after an update. If updates are too frequent, that makes maintaining mods and assets too painful for the community, causing it to die out. After the bugs, one of the next biggest complaints is the lack of mods and assets, so fixing bugs too aggressively or unpredictably could aggravate the mod/asset problem, resulting in a big game of wack-a-mole for the game's issues.
Unfortunately we should have known this would have been the case for a Paradox game
I *TOTALLY* agree. The bugs with the simulation are infuriating.
Can I also point out the absurdity of the ridiculous white screen that pops up in any info-view to obscure what's happening. Who in their right mind would come up with that as a user interface? Like seriously? Is there someone at CO who is trying to destroy CS2?
"guys i have this really funny idea to flashbang our players every time they open a menu, i think it'll be hilarious"
@@_ikako_ lol yeah. I love a game where the epilepsy warning really means something.
@@HydrogenAlpha your screen is flashing at at least 30 times per second every second all the time youre looking at it, we live on the edge while gaming
I delayed downloading and playing CS2 after hearing about all of the bugs/performance issues and waited a few months for things to iron out. I finally downloaded the game and played it a few weeks ago for a few days in a row. I tried to recreate a small town/city that I had made in CS1, but once it hit around the 10,000 population mark, this bug absolutely destroyed the entire city. My goal was to keep it as a small city, which became nearly impossible with no demand for low density residential. The city basically doubled in population due to the land values and demand for medium or high density residential. The demand for commercial and industrial was absolutely out of control, meanwhile the whole city is screaming that they can’t afford rent and moving out with abandoned lots everywhere, and the related side effects (not enough educated workers, reduced healthcare, high crime, etc.). Not to mention the insane amounts of traffic that seemed absolutely ludicrous for a city meant to be simulating a real-life small town/city with a population of about 10,000. The entire roadway network had to somehow be reconfigured without simultaneously demolishing the whole city. At which point, it felt like a lost cause. I didn’t know how to continue playing the game after this and couldn’t explain why I didn’t want to play it anymore, other than it was making me irrationally frustrated compared to the exact same city I had built in CS1, which should have just been all around better and maybe more complex (in-depth) city in CS2, but it was just broken. Thank you for articulating these same frustrations and explaining how the bugs affect the gameplay experience. After about 3 days, I gave up because I couldn’t exactly put my finger on what was wrong in the city or how to fix it, and I haven’t touched the game since. I absolutely cannot imagine the frustrations that you and other Cities Skylines content creators have had to go through since the game’s release.
I very much appreciate and respect the candor, while providing well-composed constructive criticism for the developers in hopes of some resolutions to these issues. It’s lovely finally being able to put a face to the voice as well. Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication to this channel and its fans. Please take all the time you need to make the content that you enjoy making and prioritize your well-being first and foremost. Look forward to seeing how the channel evolves!
One thing that keeps bugging me is the amount of high rent icons in minimum value areas, just because there's not enough income to actually pay the rent. It's something I can't do almost anything about, and if I wasn't numbed by the icons, it would distract me from actual issues. Luckily this is mostly a visual thing, but though I'd mention it anyway since it's kind of (but not really) related.
CO & Paradox should listen VERY closely to what you and Biffa have stated. In addition, throwing hissy fits about negativity and a complete money-grab by not fixing bugs until DLC purchase is giving their fan base little respect.
100% nailed it! I noticed the issue when my city hit about 80k. I carried on to around 150k without being able to zone any single-family, and had to remove almost all of the single-family I already had. I'm literally waiting on this one issue/cluster of issues to be fixed before starting my first "real" city, now that the other issues are cleared up.
Perfectly said. Land values, zoning, confusing messaging that just makes players feel like it’s their fault. It ruins the longevity of a community.
The infamous "Maybe the game just isn't for you" statement really hammered that in. Do CO even consider this a bug, or is it just gameplay mechanic in their eyes? Will they "fix" it or are we going to have to rely on mods?
@@JimmiG84 Colossal Gaslighting Disorder - Where you, the paying customers ARE the problem...
@@JimmiG84 I'm not against relying upon mods in games, but there needs to be more communication right now, If not more action.
honestly I'm happy you're going back to Cities 1. I just started your Verde Beach playthrough and I'm loving it. I have also reinstalled Cities :)
Loving the content man. Watching your videos have helped me enjoy Cities more because it has me thinking differently when planning my cities. Thanks for helping me build with intention!
Every single save I create eventually runs into an issue where a random industry will suddenly cost me tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars. But if I drop the taxes all the way down suddenly I’m now making tens of millions of dollars. So as I’m going along, I basically have a built in money cheat and I just have to go adjust the taxes for that one random industry every once in a while. How this game made it past YEARS of development and supposed “testing” is beyond me. Thank god the community is pumping mods out and keeping the game alive
Somehow, in my city, the land value bug was resolved after the latest patch.
The game-breaking bug for me is when a random industry suddenly starts generating crazy high tax revenue. And I have to make the tax collection to zero for more and more of my industries.
I get the opposite. One industry suddenly starts losing enormous amounts of money. Setting the tax to zero fixes it. But it's not just 1... it happens to more and more.
Same. It's Metals for me getting a crazy high tax rate.
You're not the only one that's been having problems, I haven't been playing CS2 for ages. Biffa did a 40min video on something similar to this. It's worth a watch!
The children look like grown adults in my city, and the Senior Citizens look like 35 year olds...
since installing the LandValueOverhaul mod all my land value has decreased to a manageable level, all high rent issues have disappeared and I'm finally able to expand my residential suburbs as well as my high density neighborhoods without those annoying popups (or cims abandoning the building). Wholly recommend.
I find it really shocking that such things should be fixed by the community. Shame on you Collosal.
@@Joopiejoo i think Paradox should implement certain mods (like this one) into the main game, pay the modder and add them to the credits. This way, the modder is properly compensated for the work they did and it saves CO the time to fix the game, also allowing console players to use the most important mods. Kinda like what they're already doing with the world asset packs, only do it for code modding as well.
Interesting. Sim City 4 actually has a little-known bug where the land value calculation is self-referential, so it also tends to spiral higher and higher with no user input. In that case, there aren't really any negative consequences-you just tend to get less rural buildings spawning. But it is annoying if you want to build realistically and have some lower wealth areas.
Thanks for this message, Phil. I am only a subscriber (not a channel member quite yet) but I want you to know that I have to travel almost constantly for work, which can get pretty tedious and lonely. Having your videos to watch from my hotel rooms has been a constant source of enjoyment, and a way to unwind. My partner always asks "You watching your City Planner?" and the answer is usually yes, ha!
Keep yourself sane, and we'll be glad to watch whatever you put out at whatever speed you need to put it out at. Such a bummer that the bugs are standing in your way when you do so much to promote the positivity and pioneering spirit that Cities Skylines provides (when it works correctly.) Thank you for all that you do!
I haven't bought CS2, and I to want encourage anyone else who also has not bought it (but is maybe considering it) to wait until these main issues have been addressed. And for anyone who has bought it, I'd encourage you to skip on paying for any additional content until progress is made (at least regarding the major bugs). Game publishers won't change their behavior if there is no strong incentive for them to do so.
Thanks for laying out your thoughts CPP! looking forward to the prospect of having a variety of city builders on your channel
Yep, I decided to wait a little bit and seems like I was right to do so. I'm still hyped to get the game one day because the potential is definitely there, but the game was released way too early. Until most of the game breaking bugs and more assets are added in, I'll just keep waiting
Yea I paid $80 for all the ells nd histles. I'm a fairly passive gamer but I'm getting tired of paying top dollar for half baked products. Without question, this game will eventually outperform it's predecessor by miles but why do I owe so much money just to wait for an "immaculate" update 2 years from now??
I digest.
Love your channel, my cities have improved so much by watching this and I've learned so much about the thought (or lack thereof) that goes into not fixing California infrastructure no matter how much they increase our taxes😊🙏🏻
Thank you Phil!
TBH I used to think that way. Now Im starting to get afraid they were actually aiming to do a different game for differend audience in already niche genre.
As someone who's studied programming, I can also add that the longer Colossal Order waits to fix bugs and the more new code they add in that's interacting with those old, unfixed bugs, the more difficult fixing those bugs becomes as you get more lines of code to search for them in, you get more new bugs interacting with the code and the old bugs, and you get more code the old bugs are interacting with in general, making the problem of cleaning up the code grow exponentially harder, the longer they delay. They're programmers making these decisions who SHOULD know this, yet they're doing it anyways.
As an application developer myself, the decision to align bug fixes with larger releases can be a good way to keep focused on delivering planned features in a timely manner. Spending all of your time fixing bugs that are reported by users and QA (being too reactive) can easily cannibalize the time you need to work on implementing planned features which players are also asking for. It's a balancing act between being purely reactive and being purely proactive and only time will tell if CO can find the right balance. Cities: Skylines 2 promises to be a great game, but it won't take long for players (myself included) to get tired of dealing with a broken core simulation. That said, the devs at CO are clearly under a lot of pressure to get things right and I really hope they do so soon.
If you’re looking for a new city builder that gives you more Command over your city I would recommend Workers and Resources. In the game you take control of a Eastern European-esc city state that you build from the ground up while planning everything like waste management, central heating, industry, labor allocation, construction projects, logistics, etc. The game overall is a bit hardcore when it comes to city builders but approaching the genre from the other side of the iron curtain was intriguing to me. Additionally it flexes the same brain muscles as Factorio and most mechanics have toggles on them so you can ease yourself into the game. Overall I would love to hear your opinions if you have any on the peculiarities of Soviet Urban planning or just see how you would go about being a true City Planning Tzar.
The game has interesting mechanics but it is poorly developed and has a steep learning curve for casual gamers because of the micromanagement and overly complex mechanics such as having to consider gradient when installing water pumps etc. Also, workers have to walk only short distances to workplaces. It is too hardcore and unenjoyable because it does not tell you why some mechanics are not working. I played it and was impressed with some of the stuff it does but it just needs some finesse to appeal to a greater population.
I second this. It's a very cool game and it has a lot of difficulty settings that can tweak the experience so it isn't quite as punishing to begin with.
@@tendaishechidakwa It definitely has a steep learning curve to its mechanics but fortunately a lot of them can be turned off so you can ease your way into full realism if that’s what you’re aiming for. A lot of people like the extreme realism and a lot don’t. Personally while I’m not so much of a masochist to jump into the deep end with the realism features this definitely is my personal Dark Souls of city builders. Fortunately steam has the 2 hour refund window tho but I’m not sure how much anyone could get done in their first 2 hours tho.
@@Habo777-o4q . I have played it for a decent amount of time. What made me stop was the fact that my workers couldn't get to their workplaces easily and the fact that there were no transfers between transport modes, so mass transit was a pain, but the amount of stuff I could control was amazing. Imagine having to place gas stations that actually have a purpose, and designing mines that actually look realistic (I am a geologist by profession, so you can imagine the excitement). But like I said before the game is interesting but lacks finesse, otherwise it would appeal to a lot of people. Since I played it from a friend's account a while back, I am not sure if there have been positive updates since then.
@@tendaishechidakwa I just tested it in game and transfers may have been fixed since you played. If a worker or passenger is dropped off at a station and can’t walk to a building to fulfil their current need they will stay at the station and won’t board a bus going back to their origin station. I don’t know if they won’t get on any bus on the line that dropped them off them or just not get on buses that go immediately back to their origin station. Either way I have been playing the game pretty much bug free although I’ll admit I’m building my city slowly so maybe I’ll run into some stuff as I expand.
Very similar feelings: I'd love to play this game, got the preorder, and since then I've been waiting for enough bugs to be fixed for me to actually want to play the game.
First time I've seen CPPs face!
Same! People don’t seem phased though is this not the first time??
@@ajbeau_au He's been streaming on Twitch with a face cam for a while now and the last tutorial video had a face cam - but it is recent :)
The infamous "chair" video was the first time I saw his face on the channel. It would have been really hard for him to avoid a face reveal in that one. Since then, his face has been in all the videos I've watched.
100% respect how long you have dealt with the bugs. I have decided to not touch this game anymore until most of these bugs are resolved. Sadly I worry that they are banking on the modding community to fix their game for them.
I know I'm arriving 2 months late, and I'm aware that Colossal Order and Paradox made a big announcement about a week ago that changes some of the things discussed here. I just wanted to say that I also hope CO succeeds. But in order for that to happen, bug-fixing needs to be first priority, at least for the next 6 to 8 months. And maybe even for the remainder of this calendar year. I also think that new bugfix releases need to be timed a bit more frequently. The way to bring players back is to have something more improved than the last one. And the way to make us get into the HABIT of coming back is to make it so we check more often...even to the point that we're looking for news or an actual fix every week.
And finally, we should never have to wait more than 3 weeks for a new patched game. 4 weeks if they're squashing a particularly big, complex, or messy bug, or even a gaggle of bugs.
I've been having a lot of fun watching your recent stream vods at work, and learning a lot about city planning. I agree, the game is really hard to enjoy right now. I put almost 200 hours in and just had to drop it for the time being because the bugs were just so frustrating. Hopefully CO can pull through, I have faith that they will in time. For now though, I'll keep kicking back and enjoying your content and insight into city builders. Personally, I've been enjoying New Cycle a lot so it'd be great to see more of that on the channel, but I look forward to whatever is coming next from you with the new schedule, whether it be more CS2, a return to CS1, or any other games! Keep it up Phil, you've been crushing it lately.
WOW FACE CAM ACTUALLY SHOCKED ME.... no disrespect intended but I can't be the only one that didn't expect that 😂😂 Big ups on everything tho Mag County is my favorite map. Hope someone at Paradox sees this as it's an incredibly interesting video
I thought he was Caucasian with blonde hair 😂
@@Spending907 Lol, i was gonna say - he sounds so white :D
So where does this leave Biffa 😅
Biffa is just a Brit wearing top hat and monocle
CO simply didnt playtest their game, because the game mechanics werent finished until 1 day before release, and the game mechanics didnt evne actually WORK until a month ago (when some bugs were fixed, like industry supply being completely broken).
It's hard to have a working game when it's in alpha state.
I bought this game full price pretty early, enjoyed it a lot and trusted that CO would quickly fix most bugs and add missing features. I'm definitely very dissapointed, this game has SO MUCH potential
As someone who is new to CS (but long time urban planning enthusiast), I really appreciate how you talk about the game with affection as you address its shortcomings. As frustrated as I get with the game and the development at times, I really want to believe that it can and will improve, so thank you for your call to the devs while maintaining a constructive and careful attitude about it here.
Top notch video, articulate & to the point. I hope the devs take note & are allowed to fix the bugs. It also makes me kinda sad. I mean not like oh now I'm depressed sad but I had high hopes for CSII. Now when I start the game I just feel like uninstalling it for now.
Love you and Biffa making these videos to address the concerns for the game and love what your decision was.
I really hope CO takes notice that basically all the creators for their game have quit the game. Even LTT hung a lampshade on it by showing how it even chokes down 64 cores of a threadripper (which is probably the engine limit)
for me the worst bug is the water simulation. If i make a flat elevated mesa on the map, with large defined channels and riverbeds for the water to go through, i shouldnt be getting flooding
I love when you construct this person in your head based on a voice, and then that image gets shattered and you have to remap your brain
Sounds like the best way to describe the bug of Land Value is "No matter what input I make, it doesn't make a difference on the outcome".
Thank you for grounding our understanding of the problems, Cities 2 would've been a far worse expereince without YOU!
That being said, at 645 hours of Cities 2 I have spent a large portion of that time, trying to understand what I was doing wrong. Again, thanks to you Biffa, Overcharged & Brined Pickle at least I understand that this time vortex is NOT just me.
This is the kind of communication that CO/Paradox is simply not managing well. I have been playing city builders since Sim City days, thousands & thousands of hours. So, Cities 2 was always going to be my "go-to" game of the year. I am not generally "vocal" (or virturally vocal) when I find bugs, I am a ST & Analyst by choice & nature, which is similar to becoming a doctor only to walk away from auto accidents because it's not your job. In this parasocial world, everyone wants to be the subject-matter expert and I think that has muddied the water for CO/Paradox.
Anyway, I am trying my best to "stick it out" ~ have a "cuppa" when I get frustrated ~ and try to keep my upper lip stiffend for a while.
thanks again (and again) for helping us manage our expectations for Cities 2. I trully believe that many would've just dropped this game like a hot potato without your (mostly objective) assesments of the games current state.
You are valued!
~v~
all true.. but for me the most annoying bugs where landscaping related. so im hoping they figured alot of that out by the time they release the map editor.
till then ill play other games and when the map editor releases i might encounter more of these bugs.
+when they talked about scaling back on bug fixes i saw it more as planning to bulk fix alot. rather then creating hundereds of patches that fix barely anything. (and likely break mods for those who use them already)
Thank you Phil, Biffa, Diana, $2.20 and all the others who are taking a step back on this. I haven't started the game in close to 3 weeks and may not go back to for at least a couple more patch fixes. But I guess I'll have to wait for next couple of DLCs based on what was said the Word of the Week.
I hate to say it, but I think we've been played. Ultimately it's Paradox that's at fault. As the publisher they get (or should have) the final say to push the release button. I believe the content creators were lead on first, which in turn gave Paradox lovely marketing fodder and they pushed that on us, the end user community who clamoured for the game after seeing the very canned videos that Paradox and the content creators put out, albeit within the parameters of what you were told you could publish - no more than 30 minutes, and no farther than level x. In retrospect, I feel this was done on purpose by the publisher to limit what the community would see.
I'm not going to give Colossal Order a free pass either. They knew the issues were there and should have insisted on a pause on release to protect their reputation. But even they broke the cardinal IT rule of NEVER PUBLISH A PATCH AND GO ON VACATION. And then they ALL went away for a two to three week break?
So here we are a few months down the road and CS2 in it's current form is not worth it. And now the content creators are realizing they've been played and are backing away a differing rates from CS2. That, if nothing else, should wake up CO and Paradox. It should be all hands on deck, even if it means paying some of the modders who have released fixes such as the Land Value Overhaul. And yes, these are fixes, not mods, to the poor simulation they have created.
Thank you for doing this, a lot of cities 2 youtubers are doing videos like this and lowering the CS2 videos frequency, and that is crucial to put pressure on CO to fix the game
I honestly liked the city fix/review videos you did with CS1. I especially liked how you spent multiple episodes really fixing the city and making it nice and realistic, rather than just hastily slapping in some roads and a metro to fix traffic and calling it a day. I also appreciated the story and some of the restraint you used to not overhaul everything and keeping some important landmarks/areas. I would love to see a bit more of that to fill in the times when you aren't playing CS2.
Another domino falls. Is Overcharged Egg next?
Honestly, I hope so. I hope all the YT creators speak out. Seems like the only voices CO will listen to are those with a platform.
@@MeeesaI hope so too, but Move The Mouse mentioned in his video that CO have shut down the Discord server they’d been using to communicate with the C:S content creators, so I’m not holding my breath that they’re listening to people’s concerns in good faith…
CO used these creators to pump up their release and basically sold them the same false bill of goods they told us. Paradox and CO have some major damage control to do here. The question is... Do they realize it. I think they do, they have not done even close to a good enough job of resolving.
OE is definitely *miffed* at the whole "can't put railway lines over shipping lanes" thing so there's definitely bits of his Egginburgh build that simply can't be done in vanilla atm.
I'd love to watch more CS1 content, especially Nicolette Bay.
You're not the only one. The content shortage was one thing, but there are some pretty annoying, kinda game-breaking bugs in the game that hasn't been properly patched or were broken because they were badly designed. I've had the same issue with my areas, and they were supposed to have high rents because my intent for them was to be expensive houses in a high wealth area
I walked away from CS2 in December due to the bugs (and quite a few other issues I've mentioned on other channels) and gone back to CS1. IMO, as far as City builders go, it's still the GOAT. So why not start a new series on that? Build a city based on another country, something I'm not sure you've done before, say Europe or Asia or Australasia.
Yes, am looking forward to a new city from cpp. It would be really cool if you made a Japan/island like build.
Hi Phil, have you ever considered doing a series focused on urban planning itself? I've always loved the little tidbits of information that you've shared during the videos over the years, but regularly find myself wanting to have a better idea of how it all fits together. With how your explanations make the concepts accessible to viewers, I feel that deep-dives into urban planning could be something interesting! I promise that you'll at least have one viewer interested 😆
I second this. As a transportation and planning nerd myself, this is my favorite part of watching his videos 😍😍
Yes, this absolutely! I would LOVE an urban planning education series with an obvious cities skylines context
I hope them releases bug fixes with dlc means they are going to be much bigger bug fixes, that will clean up the game much faster than weekly small bug fixes. But I have my doubts, but we shall see.
Colossol Order: We care about you, the players.
Colossol Order: We can't be bothered fixing the game, so we'll bundle it with other updates (that hopefully will bring more money too)
And some youtubers asks "why are people so toxic around CS2?" Like, really? Well first of all, no denying that there are toxic people on the internet, there always was, and always will be.
But I saw another big youtuber making a similar video a day or two ago, where HE went on about "dont listen to the toxic and haters". What if these toxic people are HALF the bloody potential buyers? That youtuber threw the "toxic people" around way too much, at one point he even bundled them in together with people leaving *constructive* criticsm.
I get it, some people loooove CS1 and CS2, and they for SOME reason like Colossal Order. Fine, good for them. But instead of calling the people that complain "toxic" maybe these 'defenders' should look at themselves first, and ask themselves, if THEY are not the ones being in the wrong here. EVERYONE can agree this game is buggy as fudge.
No one is denying that, not even CO's biggest bootlickers. And just that is also so stupid, why on earth would a person DEFEND a publisher/studio ? Do you honestly think Paradox gives a fudge what you really think and want? There's ONE language they understand, and that is $$$ .
I dislike toxicity and haters as much as any normal being. But in the case of CO and CS2, I must say, I think I'm on the side of the "negative" people this time. This was and IS borderline scam of a game. They *intentionally* released the game unfinished, which they even admitted to themselves prior to 'launch'. But then you have these youtubers with hearts for pupils, that can't admit CO and Paradox did a big effing blunder. Sure, defend the game and studio you love. Or at least a game you enjoy. There's ZERO reason to defend a studio, that INTENTIONALLY released a broken unfinished game. Don't defend them and call the naysayers "toxic" and whatnot. THEY are the ones that are actually in the right this time.
CS2 should STILL be in beta and early access.
And yes, I DO own the game. Dumb as i was I did throw money their way. I may not have 900hrs in the game. Heck I can't even be bothered spending fraction of that, because the darn game is FAR from finished.
I even said it when the game launched, that CO and Paradox shot themselves in the foot. They will get poor reviews, and they might never come up from that. A lot of those negative reviews could've been somewhat easily avoided, if they didn't release the game not even half-finished.
Sure they sort of deserved a bit of credit for pushing out fixes and whatnot, in a somewhat consistent tempo. But first of all, you shouldn't need 10+ 'patches' to a newly released game. 1-2 patches, fine. but this amount? But even that little pinch of goodwill they got from 'fixing' their "game", went out the window as of their "last major bugfix".
1. they knew the game was far, FAR from finished, decided to release it anyway in hopes to suck up as much money as possible, and then also shooting themselves in the foot.
2. They managed to restore a bit of people's faith in them by fixing things somewhat reguarly(fixes that shouldn't even be needed!)
3. Then it's like they figured "meh, game works good enough, let's focus on making dlcs and stuff so we can make money, and fix our broken sh-t THEN".
From the release, til recently, they've literally shot themselves in the foot TWICE. The game isn't even that old yet, and they managed to eff up the game for all eternity from the getgo. And yes I do mean most likely for an eternity, because once again, reviews are terrible due to their stupid idea of releasing the game in that state, which allowed the negative reviews to pile up. To get into the "plus side" of the reviews, they would need thousands of new buyers that rate it high, to even have a chance of having at least above mediocre average review score. Again, all stems from them releasing the game, willingly and knowingly, far, faaaar from finished. And there are STILL bugs from day 1 in the game, and now they decided to "screw it" and not work on just making fixes? Like, are Colossal Order ...I dunno... dumb in the head? They just can't help themselves, they just gotta aim that gun at their own foot again and again.
Do I have sympathy for CO? Honestly? Not even a pinch. THEY did this, themselves. The naive youtubers and whatnot that will defend them and the game til the end of time can say whatever they want, because they are naive and dumb. But they can't see that, so they rather lash out and call the naysayers 'toxic'.
Think about it, this isn't a $10 game from a 1man developer that works his butt off day and night. This is a studio, with backing of friggin Paradox (which I think is the major problem here btw), yet people still want to defend these people and this game
No wonder we are drowning in tons of terrible games last few years. Because people are dumb. Throwing money at devs and games that doesnt deserve a cent.
Look at games like Forspoken. Redfall. The Day Before, and so on and on. You know why these game exist? Because people just LOVE to throw money around them, and spend absolute ZERO seconds in researching a game.
Look, a trailer for a new game that is coming in 6 months. It looks cool. Gotta pre-order right now. Who in their right mind does this? Sadly, way too many people.
They always say "vote with your wallet", but it is actually true. If people stopped pre-ordering games they havent even seen gameplay of, stop buying lootboxes and microtransactions and battlepasses, season passes, and whatnot. We would guaranteed NOT be having that crap today. But people throw money around them, and that money translates in to publisher-language as "people like this, lets continue sucking them dry...stupid fools".
They raised, not that long ago, the 'standard' price for games from 60 to 70, right? Have YOU (whoever is actually reading this) noticed a jump in quality in the latest games?
Shouldn't you get better stuff if you are paying more? Nope, not in the world of gaming, now you're paying $10 for a game they couldn't even bother finishing before releasing.
And this will continue forever, as long as people keep throwing money at these studios and publishers.
Problem is, people are generally dumb, or rather gamers are dumb. Remember how the older generation said it's not healthy to play videogames, it will rotten your brain? Hm, they might actually be on to something. We just chalk it down to "meh, older gen, what do they know of today?"
Again, look at the evidence, people are literally spending HUNDREDS of dollars on games like S-icide Squad just to play that mess a few days early.
People were warned by Colossal Order themselves, prior to launch, that the game isn't finished. What do people do? They jump on the semi-hype and by the bloody game. And yes, a lot of those buyers are then whining and 'hating' online. It's partly their own fault, they threw money at something that has been announced isn't finished.
CO and Paradox, just simply shouldn't have released the game when they did. In fact, I dont think the game should even be released now. It's not finished, and it wont be finished for probably a year.
Any potential buyers, I would simply advice them to return in 2025, then, just MAYBE the game is actually worth more than $10.
And defenders may call me toxic or hating. But that just proves my point. I've stated FACTS in this comment, I'm not bashing on anyone. I own the bloody game, I have just as much right to complain about the game, as 'you' potential defender, has to defend them and the game.
I never thought that day would come, where I actually understand the toxic haters, not all of them, as many are just being toxic for the sake of it. But this game is not worthy of anyone's money. Doesn't mean it wont EVER be worth it. But NOW, it's not worthy anyone's money. And the way CO has handled the launch and the now dialed down fixes, makes me also say, dont give your money to them and Paradox. You're better of donating it to charity - at least you're helping someone that need it.
CS2 might become a wonderful game at some point. Not saying it won't. But it wont happen for many, maaaany months. So again, as of here and NOW, it's not worth anyone's money, and isnt even worth being played by 'content creators'. This game should be hidden, til it's actually a proper game.
I watched this a few hours ago and had to let it sit and digest a bit. First, I want to thank you for putting out a well thought out and articulate case (including off screen tests and experiments), and literally laying out factual examples. It's easy (and tiresome) to see so many other content creators and Steam Community members go to Defcon 1 and beyond in their response to Colossol Order. I get that too, but the endless kneejerk rage fests do nothing other to have the CSII community manager respond about toxic posts. Like so many others, I too am disappointed...but do believe that in time things will turn around...but my fear is that any meaningful turning points are still months, if not two quarters away, and that bums me out. I was hoping to already get some new assets by now, a new radio station, and some new mechanics....but it looks like that can also is getting kicked down the street for a few months as well. That being said, I'm guessing since creators like you, Overcharged Egg, Biffa, etc., since you all got hands on early access...I'm also wondering if CO ever turns to any of you these days and opens a dialogue with you all to see what needs to be addressed first. Like this video, is there anyone at CO you could send your thoughts and examples to directly. I wonder if the developers and project manager of CS II are aware of these videos, and if so, do they watch in a room together and take what you show as great gameplay examples of what needs to be addressed as opposed to toxic criticism we often see on the discussion boards. It'd be great to learn that they watch these and take it to heart, and maybe even reply "Thank Phil for pointing this out, and we'll look into this on our next cycle"....It'd be a shame to learn that they didn't. Secondly, on a lighter note, this is the first time I saw your 'face' so I can finally put a 'face' to the 'voice' after discovering you 2.5 years ago it seems. You and Egg have such calm and chill voices...voices of reason and zen if I think aboiut. You should consider reading childrens books for Audible or something as a side gig. Always love your content.....- Jay
In Biffa’s video he mentions that any communication with CO/Paradox abruptly ended when the game released.
wow@@foxyfoxington2651
@@foxyfoxington2651 Wow! I am glad I didn't pay for CS:II. This doesn't inspire me to want to buy anything else from them.
The wild thing is there is a good chance they see this and take action. CPP has really blown up.
Also, Phil, any changes you make to your schedule for mental health reasons are perfectly acceptable.
It’s really sad that this game is still so broken :( I’m only 50 hours in, because I took a long break from October until January. The game was unplayable then. Now it has gotten a lot better but there are still so many things that frustrate me. Zoning is so buggy, building level up being janky, The high rent thing, Lanes/Traffic Lights etc. being messed up after loading into the game and of course the economy. At one point I made 36 Million an hour with a small city of like 30.000 people. I too felt like nothing I did in the game mattered. I really hope they’ll be able to turn it around and make this game live up to its potential
This is how the real world works. This is really interesting to me.
The solution here and in reality would actually be social housing. Gov bought and built housing provided for free to citizens who need it. That's the mechanic needed.