Great Beasts of Legend: Centaurs, Sirens and Chimaera: The Greeks and their Monsters
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- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2016
- Dr. Jeremy McInerney, Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Classical Studies, University of Pennsylvania
The Greek imagination was populated with all sorts of hybrids and monsters, from the half-horse, half man centaur to the chimaera, a blend of lion, snake and goat. What function did these creatures play in Greek culture? In this lecture we’ll look at some of the most extraordinary monsters and fabulous creatures of the Greeks and try to explain where they came from and why the Greeks were fascinated by them.
McInerney's lectures are fascinating. The association of Greek gods and goddesses with animals (owl, horses, bulls, cows etc) indicates the survival of totemic elements in the Greek Pantheon (just like in the Egyptian religion), that is elements from a previous religion. Religions have evolved from animism to totemism (an animal or plant representing the tribe or the clan) to ancestor worship, to worship of natural forces (often anthropomorphic), to deification of heroes. Such elements survive in the monotheistic religions, too.
Great lecture. Thanks for sharing on You Tube. These lectures are a treasure for people that don't have access to the art and institutions that are available in the eastern part of the US.
I just want to say "Thank you!" to Dr.Jeremy McInerney and Penn Museum.Wonderful lecture and a great Q&A session.
Great thought provoking lecture, thank you Dr.McInerney.
I really love that Athena-Hippia point at the end! One of the things that used to seem kind of odd to me as a kid was why Athena and Poseidon were so closely associated, and hearing that many Greeks associated her with horses, which Poseidon was ALSO a god of horses(and indeed, I'd argue was probably ORIGINALLY, with the oceanic association coming later by analogy to horses), provides a far more direct and powerful explanation for that than I ever really expected to find ^w^
The recurring theme being that we're equally capable of humanity and monstrous actions. Whether we're perceived as one or the other depends entirely on one's perspective and motives.
Wonderful lecture. Thank you for sharing.
Fascinating lecture!!
This was a good one
Thanks for posting. This interesting presentation is very detailed and well spoken. Regarding why the people of those ancient cultures included those creatures on their artwork: I am inclined to think that some of those creatures were real at that time and place in history, and the people were simply drawing and sculpting what was present in their society.
Is it possible to get a link/more info on the referenced research? Dr. McInerney mentioned the author who wrote about the Mycenean waterworks at the 12 labors sites, I think he said the name was Dennis Aloway, but I'm not finding anything with a Google search.
53:07 I would characterize the Hundred-Eyed Argus as good. He was certainly a loyal servant to Hera. As much as I've always loved Hermes, I think he went a bit far in killing the Argus who, after all, was only following orders.
My Mother , who was Scots. Was half human and half cow. She was known as Aberdeen Agnes.
In her time, women weren’t afraid of breast feeding.
Interesting talk but even more interesting Q&A.
Wow that gryphon-headed deity at 17:42 seems to be a very specific combination of the Assyrian relief of the god Ninurta pursuing Anzu, the lion-headed eagle. Ninurta's body and even clothing detail is identical.
This was very interesting, thank you!!
This was a great video, I really learned a lot! I'm very interested in ancient cultures and especially Ancient Greece..
I have to say I think youve done a wonderful job explaining the origins and symbology of these anthropomorphic beings and such
..
I just wanted to add..
Long before the classical age, coming from the upper Neolithic to the late bronze age..Mycenaens..there were many "Totem Cults" throughout mainland Greece and the surrounding islands and territories.
These were groups of people that were associated with a specific animal ..like the ones you say represent certain regions..
..
There are many symbols and concepts about beings, deities, monsters, etc
That were carried through different cultures throughout time.
That's what they are..representations, metaphors, archetypes, personification, spiritual symbology,etc..
..
Also i think the "Lion Man" is actually the head of a Lioness because obviously male lions have manes and i think the stature of the figure definitely depicts an adult lion so its a Lioness..
Its probably a shaman wearing the mask of a Lioness
Eddie Krzyzanowski - I mostly agree with you, but do feel that the speaker may be projecting a bit, and thereby over-selling _his_ theories over others. His theories are perfectly legitimate ones, but he projects that they are THE obvious conclusions (that we all ought to make). In academia (it is a common enough belief) that you make a name for yourself by bucking the established dogmatisms of your age, in hopes of gaining more adherents, or, if you're _really_ lucky, shown to have been proved correct. When he says, or strongly implies, that his interpretations are obviously the correct ones, notice that he shows very few examples (if any) of first hand evidence that back up his theories. That is because _he can't!_ I realize he is learned, but another (, and then another, and another) academic, from within his branch of studies, inevitably posit _their own_ set of theories, perhaps in contradiction to this speaker (or perhaps all others), with equal conviction and just as convincingly. But just as often it is really just their pet theory, and equally as good (or bad) as many others. Just my opinion on it.
Seperately, just to point it out, some populations male lions, particularly those from truely desert climes, hotter and with scant moisture, are nearly mane-less. So, that is another possibility for interpretation.
Eddie Krzyzanowski - here is an example:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsavo_lion
Wrong, Jeremy. The bull comes from the ancient forest god during prehistoric matriarchy. He was originally an aurochs or a wisent. The labyrinth was the forest (the Underworld).
Since you seem so sure, why not provide a source for your claim?
I find the centaurs with human legs more frightening. It makes the rape myth more realistic.
I believe you, I think a lot of the stories from this era are the same basic story, jason and the argonauts sound a lot like a mesh of old trojan like (sea peoples) stories
I think the audience was stunned.... No response to his final jest...
Xenophon, when describing the difference between centaurs and horsemen is in one sense describing the difference between a nomadic or semi-nomadic existence on horseback - as we now know would have been the life of people to the north of Greece all the way through Central Europe, and the life of the Greeks - settled, but still using the horse when they like.
In every other respect he is describing the vast and powerful tribes of horsemen of Europe - those who would become the Celts or Gauls - who, it could be argued, were inheritors of an Indo-European cultural heritage that was not as influenced by the great cultures of the East as Greece had been.
It was known in the ancient world that the Europeans, Urnfield culture etc, had the largest herds of horses in the world, their direct ancestors having first ridden them, and these were essentially military super-weapons of the day. If you had lots of cavalry, you could raid at will, and sweep through entire nations of those who had no or few horse.
The Greeks were themselves at least partly descended from this horse-borne colonisation, and I wonder if echoes of probably repeated incursions and migrations from the north are present in tales of raping, pillaging, drinking raiders.
Interesting but 'Mycenaean Greeks' and 'Minoans' are modern constructs. The terms used are more likely to have been more similar to the terms Achaeans and Cretans.
Didn't know Pegasus was born from Medusas blood..
Errors: 9:43 - thats Poseidon, father of Medusa not Perseus. I don't know how you can even confuse this two. Especially if you are classicist.
25:05 - That's cherub from the Near East religions, not sphynx.
Please can you subtitle your programs in Spanish greetings from Mexico
The kilos of liquid could have been mead as well. Honey mead possibly.
Anyone who's seen the Grendel movie with Angelina Jolie starring as Grendel's mum (Oh hubba hubba!)
will be familiar with the Allure of a well depicted Female Demon from mythology 😊
That cow joke didn't go so well.
33:39
48:31
Talk about the very ambiguous nature of the beasts in their depiction then get a question about monsters are basically evil but were there any "good" ones. I don't know. Cerberus was basically a loyal dog who was tamed and tricked by various characters. Is that an evil nature as we would understand it? Cerberus doesn't go out attacking women and children for fun.
Please Penn Museum, stay pure and academic. Don't pander to any political agendas, don't corrupt your scientific fervour and pessimism for vanity and popularity like they are doing at so many institutions. Keep faculty on merit alone and betray the traditional values of such noble institutions. Keep putting out great content like this.
here here! it can be as banal and tedious... if you love the subject then you'll sit through it as against being, as you say, pandering to popular and dubious presentation...
And keep your children out of the universities until they knock it off and start educating again. This propoganda BS is BS.
RekturRectus 1776 I agree. Universities are places of academia and education.
Ban SJW's.
@@michaelsladnick5482 you crazy berniac. Keep voting socialist. Your grandfather and father are probably real proud theyve raised such a progressive.
You want an explanation? Ancient Furries. I’m ready to accept my doctorate now.
The Horse does not symbolise base human instincts, the horse symbolises understanding, one who possesses wisdom. The spelling of Centaur is also erroneous it is spelt Kentaur " Ken" is the sum of knowledge. Kentaur are children of the Goddess, being a group opposed to the great deceiver Zeus and his Pantheon this being the reason for the denigration.
As a Grecian, I take issue with you calling my history myth or imagination. Thanks
Is he confusing poetry with orthodoxy?
What do you get when you cross an elephant with a rhino??
Elefino
The touching of the beard and groin is a symbol of male initiation where pubic and facial hair acknowledgment means you're a young man, or hit puberty. Blocking that gesture of superiority, it appears as a gay accusation of the one imposing his dominance upon the other one.
And further, some of your facts are as wrong as your work on or acceptance of an incorrect the Tree of Life mandala. The west took liberties with that document that are not based in truth.
Wrong. It would be FAR worse to be raped by a horse than by a human. I'm surprised that ANYBODY would fail to understand why this would be so.
34:30 what if the centaurs come from a historical civilization that tamed horses before the greek ancestors did? getting drunk and raping sounds like a mongol invasion or something
48:25 I'm sorry, what? weird joke I guess
It is in the imagination of the narrator that the stories are from the imagination of the Greeks and could not have been true. 100 years ago it was implausible, but now hybrids have been done and lived. It is obvious advanced civilisations existed, they left remnants we could not reproduce everywhere on the planet. The Vedas talk about the birth of all kinds of creatures, with names of parents included.
P.s. with all of the REAL information available to all of us, are you really this STUPID and ILL-INFORMED on the subject of genetics? All I can say is that, ignorance of the type you possess, while NOT evidence of the possibility of chimeras, IS a reminder of the sad tendency of some humans to resort to INbreeding. SMH
They are not myths.
They are animal and human genetics in one.
The Anunnaki are the Gods of all ( mythology ) in all cultures around the world.
The Anunnaki are master geneticist.
Ancient history has shown to be highly technologically advanced.
We have been entrained by the system to ignore the obvious.
The transfer of conciousness into machine has been done in our time.
Imagine what unbound geneticist were creating in their time.
The evadance is in plain sight.
Oh, dear. There had to be at least one. No place on RUclips is safe from the lunatic-fringe crackpot conspiracy theorists. What IS it about RUclips that attracts these wingnuts like flies to dung?
There is a single unifying theme but academia is not willing to look at it even though they are looking at myths and legends the unifying and the underpinning of all these mythologies and legends is Genesis 6 where the angels of God mated with the woman of the Earth and produced horrendous offspring this is the Greek gods
@Festina_Lente you r ignorant
@@BronxWavy Nah, he's right, Nicholas is talking trash. The polytheistic religions and their roots predate the time in which the Hebrews, inspired by the Zoroastrians, started their monotheistic tradition. Nicholas seems to confuse the fact that his myths are as much myth as the greek myths were.
@@Akillesursinne no because science agrees with Nicholas. There are many variants in many ppls dna that are nit considered to be human. It doesnt matter of its Hebrew lore or Marvel Cree lore.. It is supported by facts that these variants are nit discussed but are tested for at everyone's birth
@@Akillesursinne and its never okay to attack people the way fester did because of some information. Its the barbarian in some ppl thay is case and point here
The good news is it was only 15 minutes before I realized this was complete nonsense. Greeks made up the minotaur to make a monster out of another god? PSssffttt.
As usual, bad archaeology ignores literature.
As usual, morons spout inane, meaningless, ridiculous drivel. Thats ok, though. No one could ever mistake you for someone with any education, any intelligence or any knowledge of the subject, whatsoever.
This man does not understand that these are not myths and happened thousands of years before the Greeks. The Labyrinth of the Minotaur has been found buried under 25 feet of earth. According to the amount of sediment inside and above the last time the Labyrinth was used was 8,800 years ago.
Your drivel is what happens when people of TOTAL ignorance, NO education and NO ability, whatsoever, to interpret information, somehow come into contact with some information. Stop trying to discuss things and subjects of which you, CLEARLY, have NO understanding, no ability to interpret and no REAL education. Please. You'll save yourself much embarrassment and, those of us to whom the subject is dear, much disgust at having to hear the inanity you spout
Myth can meant complete fiction, legends derived from some facts or stories developed to explain origins. Most of greek mythologies are of the latter two. There are, of course, a labyrinth in Crete. There are might not be a man with a bull head existed.
"Demonize" a very over-used word by post-moderns. Every time I hear it I become disillusioned with the speaker.
All of these vile and frightening images come from the minds of demons. Unlike the images in Egypt, North Africa, Khem, the black land, who produced beautiful calming works of art. Indeed God Isis had a crown that adorned her head with snakes to show her dominance over the land. The Hyksos took that holy image and turned it into a demon. Because that is who your ancestors were. That is who you are too. Own it.
It sounds like you have some serious issues. Did you know Ramses II was a fair-skinned redhead, according to DNA? As for "frightening images", didn't you watch the episode? Most of the images were not frightening. As for art, the art of the helenistic and classical periods are perhaps the most beautiful works of art ever created. And sure, if that's the sum of our cultural heritage, beauty, then I own it. Although, to be fair, I'm a Swede by ethinicity living in my native land. And swedes being known for their beauty, so don't mind me! :D