Don’t bother with Warhammer Commission painting
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- I get asked all the time about how to charge for commison painting more so since the lockdown as people are of work and are wanting to try and make money during the lockdown at somthing there good at or somthing they can do when stuck at home heres what ive lernt running a painting commison business
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Re-uploaded after Lukes boomer moment
Tell him it's "you're"
@@BlackMagicCraftOfficial he will just cope and say its for the correction comments.
"boomer moment" how cute xD
what moment? did i miss something?
@@turtleandbear1179 This is a re-upload. there was 2min of black space at the end of the old one and when he went to use the trim tool he turned the entire video into just that 2 min of black space
mini painters be like: i just did a 2000 dollars commission
other person: so how much did you make
mini painter: like 5 dollars
"I need about three-fitty" - Loch Ness Monster. That village looks dang good, I miss them buildings.
I recently quoted on a commission, which i was told was "way too much, i could paint this myself..." ... you're in the wrong place for this discussion friend... and then he expected me to assemble the models for free.. we're talking 55 multipose minis.. holy shit. and in my experience, this is the norm for commissions.
If someone told me "I could paint this myself" my response would be "then why don't you?"
I use my airbrush to spray my paintbrush lightly to dry brush. it conserves a considerable amount of paint and keeps things tidy.
I am going to try this! thank you for the idea.
Of all of the hobby people Luke is quickly becoming my favourite, like I will freely admit I am not there for every video but he never makes divisive statements, he does seem tired (don't be to hard on yourself mate), but he always seems genuine and professional which is a hard combo to pull off.
@@GeekGamingScenics and we notice :)
Love what you said about profit and reinvesting. It's very important and feels great to constantly build your business.
My rule of thumb is, I'd never charge less for an hour's labor of commission painting than I could earn for an hour of overtime at my "real" job. Any less would be losing money and taking time I'd rather spend painting my own stuff. Anyone who thinks it's not worth that much is welcome to do their own painting, or find someone who doesn't value their own time.
This is one of the reasons why I never got into the commission game... take 5 hours to paint a mini and charge like $400 lol... I feel the amount of time I take is just to much per hour to charge.
@@FacilityD20 I am pretty much the same way - and honestly my work is not good enough _and_ quick enough at the same time, to justify what I would ask. in fact, it would be a more profitable use of my time to pay someone else to paint my models for _me_ while I work.
Good rule of thumb for any hobbyist.
Time is money my dudes.
Well with your rule of thumb, I would be charging 90$ a hour
This is some great advice and really puts freelance work into a different perspective for me. Thanks for sharing. I need to charge more or not feel bad refusing work.
Good video! I’ve got friends who run hobby business and have had exactly these kinds of conversations with them. Turns out they don’t think about consumables because “they already have them” and when all said and done they’re actually making about 20% of what they thought 🤦♂️
Commission painting services are great but I'm one of those weirdos that likes to paint everything himself just the way I want it and one day when I am dead, I will be buried deep in a giant pyramid with my painted miniatures around my sarcophagus in a hidden chamber with booby traps all along the sealed access passages and rooms.
And my tomb will be built from all of the models I *haven't* painted!
@@HeadHunterSix Oh yes. I will be buried under finished Bases and Dioramas with unpainted prehistoric Animals on top.
granted - that is a bit wierd
AWESOME info! Should be viewed by ALL small business people!!!
Your content is always golden.
Also, to anyone who's watching this that's thinking of getting into commission painting, watch all his videos on this. They've helped me no end and I'm getting there after a year.
Thanks to your original commission video, I got a good start, these extra tips are very useful, the packaging one I found out to my cost in the 1st 12 months, but I never thought of charging for unpacking and washing or communication. I charge a daily rate based on 8 hours of work per day (I usually do more when I get carried away with an interesting commission.) I do do half day rates for very small commissions for regular clients. Then on top of that are essential materials & parts. So thanks Luke for all the advice and for geek gaming to help me keep my costs down. Cheers bud.
The total time it takes, including 2 hours for all comms! Genius! I was charging by model and losing money. Thank you!
I doubt I'll ever do commission painting, but I am an architect and it's interesting how similar your approach is to the way we price jobs. At the end of the day, we are all using our skills to provide a service in order to hopefully earn a living out of it!
As for working out how much to charge... Our friend the joker said 'if you're good at something, never do it for free' 😝
So as I was saying in the previous video, we need some Praetorian Guard videos on the go. You’ve inspired me to kitbash a Praetorian guard army! I managed to pick up a few weapons teams from eBay as well.
Turns out business is complicated and takes a good amount of thought to make a profit.
Business requires customer demand to match the time it takes to paint and the painters operating costs. Unfortunately asking $400 for a spacemarine isn’t viable as no customer is willing to pay that.
That’s why I think commission painting is a bad business model that doesn’t work. Painters who compare it to a real full time job are only thinking about the time it takes to paint, but haven’t thought about customer demand and what they’re willing to pay.
If customer demand is less than the time it takes to paint then the business won’t work.
A tip for dry brushing is not to put your paint onto the towel, use a regular pallette for the paint, you use less that way as you can wipe most of the excess off on your pallette and use it next.
I'd happily do commission painting quite cheap as I really enjoy the assembly and painting but my stuff isn't good enough sadly
The process of getting a commission portfolio and business reputation under your belt can be pretty disheartening. I'm new to commission painting, but my conversations with potential clients so far have generally been either this: "Hey can you paint XYZ?" Me: "Sure can, tell me more" Them: radio silence forever. Scenario 2 (the more soul crushing one): Client: "Hi, how much would it cost to paint XYZ figure to the quality in your pictures" Me: "That'll be approximately $XX dollars depending on exactly what you're looking for" Client: "Oh, other people are charging $10 - $12" Me: "I estimate that this figure will take approximately five hours of labor. At those other people's prices, that values my labor at $2/hr" Client: radio silence forever.
Solid video. Who are the worst customers? Mates. Sorry but Tesco doesn't give a discount cos I know a cashier! Bank charges, bitter experience say watch out for these.
Great video. I think the main thing to remember or think about if your going to do commissions is, if you work in and office or supermarket for example, would you spend time emailing clients in your own time for free, or do it in work time where you are paid to do so for that purpose? Would you answer a customers question when you are filling stock on a supermarket shelf on your break or when you are paid to do so?
As a photographer, I can spend 1-2 hours setting up lighting for a photo shoot. I certainly am not going to miss out of money for that. A client will pay £500 for a 30 minute portrait session and think, 'wow thats steep', well yes, I have set up, take your photo up to 400-500 times and pack all my crap away and go home.
Some sound advice, not just for commission work but for business in general. I think too many newcomers just think being the cheapest will be the quickest way to success but it's very rarely the case
That’s only if there’s demand for the product or service
I came here because I saw a picture of an awesome little dog on the community post.
Very good information in this video. As well as the business sense I liked the tip about airbrushing washes on.
Wow those 3D prints are absolutely gorgeous! That is Incredible work!
Great video Luke, some inspiring tips there, and those resin buildings are incredible
For someone that has been to business school. You should alway charge a standard fee for product. Weather that is mini’s, paint, glue, materials.... Labor and always round up to the nearest to the quarter hour. And 3rd profit, it should be 1/3,1/3,1/3 of the total cost of what you charge in full. That is the standard for good business. And will keep you in business if you’re painting is any good.
Make super sure you choose the best, most reliable postage/courier service available in your area. I've had terrible experience with DTL for example, trying to find packages, the couriers not calling beforehand, pressing doorbell once then scampering after a 2s wait.... on the other hand, the post office courier service has been stellar, and is usually slightly cheaper as well.
your spray priming made me have a heart attack, good job lmao
Man, I thought we had 2 vids ina week.
Thank you for the very helpful advice! im just getting started commission painting and doing research as to how to structure and price my work, this is all great information!
I stopped commission painting minis/terrain after customers started giving me lists of paints to be used, and demanding time limits (One customer expected me to clean up, build, paint, base and varnish a 75 mm mini in less than 24 hrs, but refused to pay me for the extra paints/glue/basing materials, let alone the time I'd spend completing the model) on my services. Now I just occasionally paint certain models that I know may sell once painted, and collect a few together, get them finished, and then sell them at local gaming club nights. I also collect/paint small forces for different games, and if someone wants to buy them later, I set my own price range and if they want them packed for transport, I get them to come and collect the models/minis and bring their own bubble wrap/storage cases/boxes with them. I never really got into posting models after painting them, as my customers balked at the extra charges, expecting me to cover the postage for them as part of my service. Also, turning my home/hobby into a business from home made me realise that I was living in my workspace, wasn't having fun anymore, had little to no say in what I had to paint, and so just gave up in the end. Today I'll paint the odd character figure for someone as a birthday/Christmas present, or just for fun, but I don't do entire forces/terrain sets anymore, as the cost to myself and my health was just too much for me to continue with in the end. When it comes down to it, it's always going to cost YOU in the end if you start commission painting, either money wise or health wise, as the stress of either will get to you soon, and that's when things become so much harder to balance work and life combined. I found out the hard way, but today am back having fun, enjoying what I paint/collect, and sometimes make a tidy profit selling some of my extra minis if someone wants them.
“Breaking down packaging takes time” 😂
Really good video, full of helpful tips that I would never have thought of
If you do a lot of dry brushing then a texture palette is a good way to avoid the consumable cost of the paper towels. It pretty greatly reduces how many paper towels you use. I also think that you're throwing too much paint onto the palette for dry brushing. You don't need a glob, just a drop.
Save money on drybrushing terrain by using cheaper paint for it. Don't use your expensive, high pigment model branded acrylic paints. Mix an approximate colour using cheaper artist acrylic or craft paint.
You can save a bit of paint by applying paint to your kabuki brush rather than picking it up with the drybrush. Only works if you aren't going for Artis Opus, but definitely cuts it down a smidge.
Try drybrushing by loading up with less paint and just focus on the tips same effect 1/7 of the paint I just drybrush a piece of kitchen roll until I geothermal desired effect but I have never done it "the proper way" because sod wasting all that paint!
You can save a lot on boxes by going out the back of bottle shops and digging around in their recycling bin.
@@GeekGamingScenics Its easy, I've never paid for boxes.
Use a texture palette rather than blue roll saves paint and blue roll just uses up loads more paint than necessary and dries up the paint too quickly or even cheaper the back of your hand
Enjoyed this. I use a (very competitive ;) ) commission painter. Might be worth one on the finances of large jobs? Bit duller, but worth letting folks know about, as good commission work ain't cheap. eg My guy took a large up front deposit, has a monthly direct debit (so knows a worst case balance payment date), and gets topped up as and when I have a lump spare to chivvy him along and ensure he's paid faster - which is good for us both! We exchange spreadsheets once a month with his progress and my payments, so we don't fall out of sync and know where we are - avoids unpleasantness down the line if we ever lost track.
My wife wants to know the name of your dog and that you should include her/him in more videos.
Thanks!
Makari is his name
I second this request. Goobertown has his cats to push engagement with his videos; Luke is missing a valuable marketing tool by not featuring Makari more :D Maybe he could also get some valuable sponsorship from the Makari Skin Lightning company?
Luke, i have a solution for your dry brushing issue, you need to develop a simple dry pallet. I've got lots more info if your interested.
Winner of the Most Yorkshire Video of the Year Award 2020. Love it.
Thank you for this video! Helped me out a lot! Much love! Keep being you sir!
Luke several comments, take samples of your highlight colours down to the DIY store and get them to mix the colours in 1 Litre pots, try to pick ranges that use plastic rather than steel pots.
Luke you have made no mention of business overheads, accounting, PAYE, setting money aside for tax, time you spend on research material. You also have the overheads of electric, heating, lighting, workshop costs.
Great thought provoking video. Hope you are keeping well and busy.
Another super informative video! Amazing stuff Luke, keep ‘em coming
Great video man, shame you had to re-upload :/
You can come at it from a different angle as well:
How much do I need to make?
How much commissions can I reasonably do in the time I want to spend being a commission painter (including all the things you do to run your business, from washing models to doing taxes, shopping for materials and walking to the post office)
What would be the costs that I make in that time?
And now you know what to charge the customer.
For example (unrealistic numbers):
I want to make 2000 a month,
I'd like to spend 10 hours on my business, that's about 2 small commissions of 4 hours each + 2 hours of business stuff (talking to clients who don't place an order, cleaning your workstation, doing administration etc)
in that time I'll spend 50 on materials and other expenses
I then should charge the customer 1025 per small commission I can do in 4 hours. .
This is good know, I've been painting minitures for a year now, so I have had a few people ask me now to paint some for them so didn't know how much I should charge
That's amazing work and I wouldn't have any problem paying what you quoted for the work.
Great video, love the miniature dachshund 🥳👍
So my one question, and I'm not planning on doing a lot of commission painting (although I've done a small amount), is if you are new to the scene, with minimal influence and a small (maybe zero) catalogue of work to show how do you get people to take you seriously? Part of the reason I've probably under charged in the past is due to feeling that I can't charge lots because of who I am rather than the actually costs required
Great vid luke but when do you actually get time to do your own stuff mate ??? 🤔😁
I should really watch this video twice for the Golden advice herein. Very few people want to pay properly for art. Thanks for, as ever ,tellin’ it like it is.
Thanks Luke. I've done a little bit of commission painting, I'm always concerned if I set prices too high I'll price myself out of a job.
so basically any business aside from luxury brands?
My guy always based it on the cost of the Fig with the multiplier for how much effort you want him to put into it. Though he only really does Games Workshop stuff and hes very fast and efficient. You are also responsible for assembling and priming unless you wanted to spend an extra 50% markup.
Thanks for the super informative video
The village looked awesome
What do you think about doing comissions very cheap in your "free time" if one is not at the professional level you are but sort of "OK". Can gain experience painting using that as well. Or would it be better to just do that for free minus maybe cost of materials?
i automatically decline any commissioner that charges hourly. They can just make up any excuse and prolong it and overcharge. i had a model commission take 5 months before
When I first jumped into the 40k hobby 7 years ago I was looking for somebody to paint my models, roughly a 2500 point force. Every commission painter I messaged told me 1k-3k. I was more than willing and glad to pay somebody 300-500 having never used a commission painting service before. This price disparity blew my mind and so I just learned to paint myself, purchasing all the paints, brushes, pallet, airbrush, compressor, etc for roughly $500. Now I have over 50k of painted miniatures that I have done. I believe the commission painters have a great spot in the hobby and the world but I'm not willing to pay that much for toys unless it's guns or computers. I am sure there could be a quantity vs quality argument in regards to pricing as well
Really only other thing for dry brushing I know of it dusting with thinned buff iron Iraqi sand through the airbrush but don't have that same effect when wanting the like of steel or things like that on tools etc but over like my armour I'd use this sometimes think drybrishing just os what it is dry brushing! We had a boy in the shop today took a wingnuts sopwith kit and ordered all the PE in for a commission build he was asking us what he should charge! Just a coincidence this video popped up just wondering now if my phone is hacked listening to me like some of them daft video's go on about google listening lol but how the hell would this video pop up just after that out the blue conversion I have never had with a customer before yesterday lol! I'd maybe have a set price for unwrapping individual items but maybe not for braking boxes down but maybe a surcharge on detergent 50p a quid each customer on that if you can get it in the 5ltr bottles at tenner! But great interesting video bud!
Hi Lake, in one of your videos I notice you using a paint brush with a cap on it, what brand are they p.ease.
On occasion I’d do commissions for friends. Recently I agreed to paint a friends Salamander space marine army in exchange for about $700 worth of store credit he could give me towards my own 40k army. He initially thought I agreed to do 3,000pts of Salamander, Flames of War American army, and some BattleTech miniatures...
However the agreement was in my head just for the Salamanders because I’m not doing like base coat, shade, then highlights. He gave me two pages of instructions that included painting guys with different helmet color, making hazard stripes, and that he wanted legit looking snow bases. Since starting his 3,000pts has turned into 5,000pts. I’ve spent maybe $100-130 on new supplies and probably another $30-40 using stuff I already had.
At one point I was pretty upset, and after watching this I feel like I did myself disservice because the time and materials cost probably should’ve costed another couple hundred. And on top of that his list of demand made me decide not to ever do commission work again.
Am I wrong for thinking like this? Did I rip myself off here?
I've never used an airbrush, but I'm interested in trying one out. Any suggestions on a good model?
Hey Luke,
I'm just starting out and trying to put myself out there as a commission miniature painter and want to give back to the community of minifigure painters by also providing a means of doing live stream tutorials to help those just starting out to learn some techniques to get better. I have been told by friends and family that I need to do patreon and stream on twitch. Have you done these to help reach more clients and if so can you give me some pointers? I appreciate your time and insight.
Cheers.
Great vid, just started doing my own model painting commissions, very helpful.
Great advice, crafts people struggle to price correctly.
Hi Luke looking for any tips on how to create bullet splashes on water and mud for basing cheers
Great video Luke! A lot of useful information here.
This video’s so good I’ve liked it twice!
Hi, where can I buy your products in Australia?
Cheers
A lot of good info! also your dog man...beautiful.
That was very impressive really really good
Usually when I ask for a commission I also pay for some or all colours. Especially when I ask something very particular
Great and informative video
Great information Luke. Not that intend to do commission work, but really useful tips anyway.
Thank you ,agian , Luke .
Re-up Luv~Luv~Luv .
How do you clean up the overspray on the buildings you were working on?
There's no link to the two year old video how to get into it Luke?
Thanks Luke honestly I never really thought to much into it, been doing a a few bits and pieces and it has been building up slowly.
But thank you for this video :)
You didn't put a link into the description of your other video!
Here to comment for the reupload. Cheers Luke
Perfect video!!!! Elevate the scene!
Really informative video with direct intel on that topic, you could probably make a whole "secrets of the trade" video series of it and it would be banging awesome to get more insides from someone in this business who is europe based.
also:
go sleep mate, you look tired.
Great info in this. Keeping it real as always 👍
Really good info here. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks?”!
My joke about the black at the end of the video doesn't work anymore :/
Absolutely beautiful job on those houses
Thanks Luke , always helpful
What happened to the vid thought you put this up this week already hehe... Well other thing to take into account is you can get your VAT Tax back on anything you use if this is part of your full time job as there tax deductible items.
Yeah, check the VAT rules in your area/country, as it may get very expensive and uncomfortable if you forgot to take that into account
Liked and commented because I love ya ❤❤❤
Powerrrrrrr to the people!!!!!!!
Thank you so much. Take care
Great tips mate.
awesome video. ty :)
Cool kick stat-uh
Do you charge the customer up front or when he receive his package or may be half before starting the job and half after when the customer have it in his possession? As an exemple how much approximately do you charge for a 40 hrs job? Any satisfaction guaranteed or money back or something like a 30 days policy? ;) (LOL)
Do you set a contract for the entire job like £500? You don't work with a minimum amount like £10/hrs or more + a fix pricing? For exemple you got a job of 100 miniatures to paint so you did settle a price let's say £500 for all the 100 minis even if it take more time that you settled/ estimated with the customer? No dead line or even extra charge for any unfortunated situations or problems that can show up? Or you do it really case by case?
Over-expectations work both ways… Some painters think they can do this as an actual job and get rich from it. Unfortunately customers are only willing to pay what the model is worth to them. I wouldnt pay £hundreds for a basic Spacemarine squad to be painted.
What about price plans where there’s a basic service for less money? I don’t see the point in this, as customers only wanted a commission painting so that their models look good. A customer could do the basic paint themselves.
Because of the time and effort it takes to paint versus customers not willing to pay much, commission painting is a bad business model that doesn’t work. I don’t see it as a viable occupation where the painter can make a good income, but instead it’s more suited to a someone who loves painting as a hobby and a bit of beer money is a bonus.
What hasn’t been mentioned in this video, is if a painter does a good job then he can use photos of that model to advertise his work and get more work coming in. Also what the painter quotes ultimately decides if the customer goes silent and you get £0 or if the customer keeps on coming back in the future for more of his models to be painted and you get £100’s
Which buildings are these? Dont remember seeing a few of these on ttw.
@@GeekGamingScenics yes sir. I just dont recognize the slanted roof buildings. Ive shopped on the site before and dont see em. Help me find em?