Worked for 4 years full time as a commission painter, ended up doing work for companies painting their upcoming releases as a freelancer. In that time I painted about 10 times more armies than I ever have for myself. Learnt a lot about costing, time management, efficiency in painting techniques etc. But it got to a point where I never felt like I was progressing because I didn't have time to push myself. Time meant money. I couldn't afford to mess around and try new things, so my painting became faster but my level stagnated. I got really really unhappy. In the end I shut up shop and got a normal 9-5 office job. It took me 8 months to pick up a paint brush again....and I was always a painter more than a gamer. Now I've applied those techniques learnt over the 4 years and I've started applying them to getting armies for myself done, but I am getting better because if I want to take a bit of time to experiment I can without fear of losing money. I am thoroughly enjoying painting again, and I even take on a few commissions here and there for single pieces or small warbands that I think I'll enjoy. I got out at the right time, it almost killed the passion for the hobby I've been involved in for 25 years.
That's awesome to hear!! I went through something similar with school. Too much work completely killed my drive to create, however through proper time management, medication, and working myself up I've been able to not only paint every new model I get; But also get back into Gunpla! (a childhood hobby of mine) Keep up the good work!
so basickly you are telling us in your free time you didnt bother to improve.... jesus fucking christ. and you didnt even found a balance between what you loved to do and what you did? really... sounds to me like you got some issues.
Jon! I have the same pump. They're pricey, but as someone who's used every major brand of pump I can tell you that you picked the best of the bunch. Good luck with managing you diabetes man, you got the best tool to manage it safely and live a normal-ish life
Completely agree! I joined from Medtronic in February and I love the Tandem/Dexcom. My ONLY complaint is the cost of 10 units to reset pump and the slight waste of insulin left in the cartridge at the end (when it thinks it's empty)
It's mind boggling to me how America's health care works. Does it work? I understand that cosmetic surgeries are something that you have to pay yourself, but something that you need to stay alive? No sir. We have limit in what you have to pay yourself in year for all your meds (about 600 dollars) and after that everything is free. And you get all pumps etc for free because you need them and our government wants you to stay alive and healthy.
7:57 this is why I've never followed the advice for "find a job doing what you love and you'll never work a day in your life". In my experience, anything that I have to do repeatedly, day in day out, regardless of how much I might start out enjoying it, always becomes something I borderline hate. The finished product looks great! And the chapter titles made me laugh, yes, people read them ;)
That's just dumb. There's ups and downs in any job, regardless of whether you like it or not. I don't know why you'd want to work a job your entire life you don't enjoy, I'd much rather do something I do enjoy that have some bad moments attached to it than hate going to work.
@@taserrr I've started out enjoying many jobs I've had, and soon grown to hate every single one. It doesn't matter what the job is, sooner or later, usually sooner, I'll hate it, because I'm having to do it. So I just work for the money. I start at 9 and I finish at 5, I don't work weekends.
Can we talk about how much Jon is killing it in the youtube game? Just 1 year in and he's already on my top RUclipsr list! Keep going Jon I'm so excited for what you're gonna do for the hobby!
2:35 already have a fatherly smile on my ugly face. As a commission painter let me give you all potential entrepreneurs a bit of wisdom: NEVER accept a big job if it's not already assembled. Not only is a big waste of time that clients assume it's gonna be magically instantaneous, as if their mind was focusing on the paint without considering previous steps, it's also another potential point of contention; you see people are generally stupid, they will want specific poses without telling you or they will change their minds midway through assembly. Yes, they will be stupid throughout the painting stage as well but at least that's your job. You're a commission PAINTER, not assembler.
Several commission painters I know refuse to paint preassembled models because the work reflects on them regardless and plenty of people are frankly terrible at assembly. However, if you're doing it, you need to charge for it.
@@SparkSovereign Yup, I was a commission painter for 4 years, quite successfully, ending up with contracts with gaming companies to paint their releases etc. In private commissions I refused to paint pre assembled stuff. Two reasons, I could guarantee subassemblies that made sense to my painting process, and secondly the quality issue. Someone sends you models with mold lines, gaps, glue overspill etc, you either spend uncharged time fixing crap or you ignore it and paint away. Given most new commission work is gained on the quality of your work, that really isn't an option. So then you end up with a commission that you can't use pictures from for advertising/social media because you look like a lazy crap painter who doesn't know how to clean a model up or assmble it without using a vat of glue too much...
Agreed! I’ve painted for over 32 years, I charge waaay more if I have to assemble.. lol I should also clarify, if they look rough, I’ll refuse the work, but I’m a retired old guy.. lol
Got into painting models last year during lock down, and have watched so many different creators, just want to say that your style and your videos are probably my favorite out of everyone, thanks for all the tips and just fun content... don't tell scott
Such a *MASSIVE* achievement! The person who comissioned this is extremely lucky. I especially like the shade on the texture paint of the bases, great idea!
I took my first commission job about 6 months ago and was completely shocked with how many new things I was willing to try and how many more risks I was willing to take on someone else's models. In the end, I partially felt like I was payed to go to school. It helped me to see how uptight I am with my own models, and how rewarding loosening up can be.
7 Years! There is no way someone would take that long is there Scott? 😂 Great video as always Jon and what a fantastic army you painted for Nick. Ultimately I feel commission painting is something most painters should experience at some point not least because it makes you realise the struggles artists have always had and gives you a connection to artists throughout history. It also highlights to you what others feel is important and can help you to accept, if not fully understand, others perspectives on your work which can definitely make you a better painter.
I really like this perspective. I hadn't been interested in doing any commissions, but I might be a bit open to doing a small one because it would be an interesting experience to go through
Hooooooooo my God, even from the beginning of the video I FELT the burnout of how it will be to clean, build, prep, and paint all those miniatures all as one project over the course of a month or two... I couldn't have done it so, WELL DONE!
😂🤣😂 I love any and every interaction between you two! Keep up the good work, both of you, please! And, Jon... damned beautiful work, and that orange glow through the full army shot is spectacular!
I recently did a commission during a lockdown here in NZ. Have been saying no to them for a while now, wanting to work on my own projects with my limited free time. But had the extra time and needed the extra cash. Was a good experience, the importance of knowing what your time is worth is key
Dude your really boosting this hobby. Got into it about a month ago, I had been on the fence because I'm a board gamer but wanted to trick out my games so I started watching painting videos. First time I ran across one of your videos I was sold. Jumped right in, painting every other day now and even on my first model I had the knowledge of many techniques to try. It was like I had more ammo than I needed and I could just see how the pieces developed and which techniques would best fit. Have to say you couldn't have made it any easier to get into this. Watched your whole set,, loving the podcast, that shit is hilarious Thanks!
One thing I've always wanted but was never included in army painting videos, is how long it takes to assemble them in addition to painting. I'm glad it was finally touched on here.
One of the things I thought worked really well with the warm shadows was that where it hit the metallic silver, it looked a lot like it was reflecting the environment because of how well the base colors lined up with the shadow color you used. Looks friggin' great!
I agree with everything you said. I painted 3 things by commision and were terrible for all the reasons you said but mostly, for the time-price. I calculated a time that would take me to paint it and when it took me longer and i was starting to "work for free"... all my motivation was gone. Plus some people want golden demon level for 15€
"Plus some people want golden demon level for 15€" I won "Best painted Model" at a tournament a few years ago, for a Skull Cannon in my Khorne Daemonkin army, and someone offered me $50 US to paint one "just like that" for him. I'm like "Dude, that took me 40 hours!"🤣
This was pretty eye opening. I just started Warhammer and chose ad mech. Think I'll keep this as a hobby... Wish I had your experience in that army right now though... Thumbs up to you and your team, that had to be crazy to film.
I don't often watch your videos, but knew you really had to work for this one, thought I would throw a comment in for the algorithm as well. As a former commission painter I feel the pain, when I burnt out, it was 18 months before I painted again.
My Ork army took about 5 years to a place where you can play it properly. There is no reason to rush through. Play some small games in the meantime and enjoy the ride :D
Fantastic looking army and great video and insight on tackling commissions. As a small (smallest) scale commission painter I have to say that having a friendly, easily reachable and prompt on feedback "customer" goes a long way in keeping the motivation high and easing the commission burden". Matching the quality request to the paint style also helps. Half upfront always is golden rule.
As someone whos done commission painting for years i would have loved this years ago when i started doing it. Ironically my first project i did for money was an entire space wolf army for my buddy. Lmao.
Love your videos more and more. Finally someone being blunt about the time and effort it takes to make an army. So many youtubers make painting vids about "how to paint X" without the slightest regard that it's a warhammer model they are holding and that model goes in an army of some sort. 120 models is not unusual and if assembly + paint + basing + varnishing + cleaning up time between session comes to about 3 hours per model that's 9 full workweeks, lunch not included. If you have 1 hour a day on average for hobbying, it will take a full year to get an army finished. I wish more youtube painters would consider this before they release their how to-vids. Spend 50 hours on a model if you wish, but be clear that models is for display, and not how you get an army done before retirement. Thank you Jon, keep em coming!
As an occasional illustrator commissions always follow your classic experience: Initial commercial interest, reality sets in, new skills struggled and developed, satisfaction alongside separation anxiety...hey, a deadline helps. And at the very least your craft has been flexed.
Good video! I've been doing commission work for years, at times having it as a full time job. Nowadays I only take on commissions I enjoy painting, so no hordes of boring minis. What I learned is never undersell yourself and it's ok to say no if someone is not willing to pay your price. Your time is valuable.
Fantastic info here and as usual a high quality video! I’ve been a full-time commission painter for 19 years now. It’s important to determine how much time stages in a project take and be honest with yourself about it or it’ll cost you. You’re right that cleaning and assembly can sometimes take more time that the actual painting. Basing can too. It’s important your customers understand that.
Man, I feel ya on the Insulin Pump fees. My wife is Type 1 and we switched to a pump and meter system this year and ... oof. I'll be joining the Patreon next week to slide you some freedombucks.
you literally hit on every reason i stopped doing commissions more than 2 years ago... and ive never looked back. i felt your paint through this video but saw great results and the owner has a beautiful army. great job jon.
I actually did some commission painting a couple weeks ago for my D&D group, just some PC characters. I actually really enjoyed it and my fellow players were really happy with the results. I have no intention of painting a whole damn army mind you but a couple mini's here and there is actually pretty refreshing.
My first commission job was hundreds of orks and gretchin ... almost gave up as soon as i started lmao .. didn't ask for material costs, didnt ask for building costs. Pretty much painted them for next to nothing. Total nightmare .. but hell .. I survived to do lots more :D --- - The skitarii do look pretty epic though :D
Great video as always. Commissions are not for everyone, I think once you accept the first one that is different from your vision, it can get a little soul crushing
There is a section of this video that hits me personally. I became a GW store runner almost 3 years ago and it very quickly became a 'job' and my own personal hobby has suffered greatly ever since. Im looking at ways of combating this in only working on non-GW things at home and such and it's slowly becoming something I love again but I can 100% relate to the notion of getting paid for you hobby can really hurt your own personal hobby. Funnily enough your channel and Scotts channel has really helped me find my own hobby again
Kudos on the T1D mention! Fellow T1D here, and in my 20+ years in this hobby I have never heard about another painter/wargamer with our condition until now!
Hey Jon, great video and great job in taking down all those minis! I'd never paint for commission (also 10$/hr? boy that's low wage...) but the video was still greatly inspirational to slay my own gray!!!
The opening skit is very relateable haha. I'm a commission painter and my queue is all one client. Sitting under my desk I've got: 3 riptides, 2 starpulse cadres, 9 SC Tau boxes, 9 hammerheads, 3 valkyries, 9 tuning fork battlesuits, and 9 hornets. "I'm fucked" sums it up nicely.
"Yes, it requires an airbrush. But I think that it makes such a big impact that I'll definitely be using this step on all of my future armies." Plus, if you're even considering doing commission painting, you really should get an airbrush. It's a business expense, and it'll allow you to do your job more easily and efficiently. Work smarter, not harder.
Hey there buddy! Just wanted to say thank you. I've been watching your videos for quite some time now and I've discovered that those army painting videos you make are the perfect thing to watch while I paint my own armies. Gets me feeling like I'm accomplishing something with someone wich makes me be very proud
Thank you for posting this! After my first month of miniature painting I was asked to paint 1 mini by a person and 2 minis from another. I was first painting because I was looking for something to help regulate my mental health and I painted outside, where others noticed my work and thus I was offered my first commissions. I contemplated with myself whether or not I should even be accepting commissions as i was only a couple weeks fresh into the hobby. I wanted to get the 2 minis out of the way first as it was the bigger load, and it took me a week to complete them both. but the other person who wanted 1 was asking me every single day how their mini was coming along, and I had explained many times over I hadn't started it yet and that I hadn't forgotten about it. The pressure took my fun away and I needed to take a break from painting even for myself. I wasnt ready for commission work, and I'm taking my time before getting ready for that stage :p I would like to paint a lot more for myself so I can even say I have the proper skill to paint for someone else.
When you first mentioned this project on Trapped Under Plastic, I got a bit worried that it would take you so long to finish that Ad Mech would get nerfed before the client had a chance to play with the army in its full overpowered glory. Well they're still tier S in 40k so you avoided that! Also, it's funny how you mentioned going subtler with the glow effect, and then you show the full army shots where it really feels a bit overdone, haha. It all looks great, and I found the basing especially interesting, using such non-red colors as both shadow and highlight. I'm going to try something like that on my current army
first of all, sympathies for the absolute fuckery by US healthcare. second of all, you've done a PHENOMENAL job on this army, that airbrush under-highlight is something I really want to try myself now, and that custom wash looked absolutely gorgeous.
This video helpt me a lot on my first commission painting. Fast response on communication and good foto’s what the mini should look like is /are essential. Figuring out the price of you’re work and time was the hardest part. The bonus for me is that it pushed / forced me in becoming a better painter. Thx Ninjon, this was really helpful.
I have only been painting 1.5 years and go to do some commissions already. I learn so much because it forces me to paint something I wouldn’t normally pick. Also forcing me to paint faster sped up my learning curve. I do love getting to give someone the finished product and see them happy :)
Great video my friend! as a fellow RUclips Creator, and Commission Painter, i can relate to much of what you said. Pricing can literally make or break a project. in the end both parties should feel good about the arrangement! thanks for making such high quality videos!
Wow. I have been watching your videos as my binge "good-listening to" while painting for the past few weeks. Stumbled on you by accident. Was so excited to see you get your new insulin pump! I've been diabetic 27 years now and I just extremely empathized with the feelings around getting one. Slay the Gray man.
These look superb! Loved the orange fluro paint, nice touch to really make the models pop. I've dabbled with commission painting but never any projects this big, fair play for getting them done dude.
6:34 I'll tell you what you do then. You send two certified copies of a written request for payment, one to them and one to yourself, which you don't open. In this letter you itemize the work thats been done and the total payment due, and inform them that they have 30 days from the date of receipt of the notice to provide payment, or the items listed will be sold on EBay to recover the your loses.
My first commission job was a 3000 point Biel-Tan Eldar army. I learned a TON and loved the experience but it was because each unit was different. I didn’t get slogged down in sameness. It was the first and last full army I painted for commission.
Models look absolutely fantastic! If you look at any one of them, it feels that you've put all the love and dedication into painting it. Totally insane when you see 120 of those at one.
This is, hands down, the most relatable video I've watched of yours. I got into the hobby and then I painted a few DnD figures for some co-workers. Before I knew it, I was painting one of my co-workers entire collection of Star Wars Imperial Assault miniatures. I remember how much the paint hated the material of the minis and wouldn't stick and I'd spend a lot of time just continually trying to reapply it. I also always felt guilty if I painted some of my models during the commission. It was a good experience and the money helped me when I left my job during Covid, but I'm glad to be back to my models. Great video!
Tons of good advice in this video, notably the part about not super highlighting every little detail--I can be BAD about that last bit, just pecking away and pecking away and saying "Gotta get that bit, and that bit and THAT BIT...!!!!" I'm getting better at and about saying "OK, this is DONE NOW," and having done with it. I've done all of one commission and it was relatively painless, and if someone else would like me to paint stuff for them in the future, you raised good questions to ask early on and get out of the way. As well as important issues to not skirt around. Thanks as ever, Jon!
Sorry you didnt get to keep the army. It looks AMAZING! I really enjoyed your process. I always enjoy when creators try to maximize effect for minimal effort. It inspires me to "slay the grey". I will come back and rewatch this one for sure.
I’d really love to see you do some blood bowl pieces, I’ve been painting them for years and they always seem to be cartoony when I do no matter how I try not to do that
Fun Video :) Honestly, as someone who does the occasional commission, the only advice I can give to anyone just starting is always, ALWAYS start with your freinds models (those friends who don't enjoy painting) as you already have a level of trust with them and you know what they're like. If you go for someone you don't know off the bat then there are major risks that you're maybe unprepeared for. Get some of your friends models painted, build a portfolio and you'll also self-confidance to paint for other people before tackling people you don't know.
i ordered a commission project once, probably spent about 5k for about 3-4k points of custodes as well as 30 sisters. took almost a year to complete because when i first got them there were shoddy paint jobs all around and i kid you not some of the models and pieces that hadn’t even been primed. in a way it was kind of good because it got me to start painting my own models
Great video, and great advice for those looking to get into the commission scene. Also, yes, people do read the segment titles. Good little hidden Question!
I’ve done one commission, for a coworker. It went well and I got to paint something I usually don’t (Necrons). I didn’t kill him with my price, especially since they’re painted to a high tabletop standard, I’m certainly not a master! The only other thing I asked him to do was give my info to his gaming group for future jobs. We’ll see how it goes.
I'ma comission painter and what you mention in min 8:00 aprox. is exactly what drives me, I love having a finished product for someone else, so much more that for myself, I paint my armies tabletop and lazy, but I love putting the extra effort in someone else's
Tips I used to use for commission painting. Paint some of your minis alongside those of the commission. You're already 'assembly-lining' everything and there's always some of your own stuff you need to get done but lack full motivation to do. Takes a wee bit longer to do but you're killing 2 birds with one stone. Also, if you're doing the same scheme with theirs as yours, you get some more experience in. And IF you're doing the same types of minis (same army or project) keep the best ones for yourself and let the other guy have the (slightly) lesser job. Like the vid said, know your limits on what you can take on at any given time. A small project (like a Kill Team or Bloodbowl team) may be a good start for newbies. Full armies are...hella taxing on everything. And always ensure you're getting the best fees possible. Whether you use a tier system for quality and cost or guesstimating an hourly rate and time to do the commission, err on the side of you profiting more. IF you end up feeling you over charged them, you can always add in more detail or give them a kick-back on fees. They'll be happier if you do and that leads to repeat business and happy customers giving rave reviews and word of mouth business. Lastly, like he noted, take into consideration the cost of supplies as well as wear and tear on your equipment used. Xacto blades, clippers, brushes, and the like wear out eventually along with some wear to your air brush and compressor if you use that. That's a 'plus cost' in addition to your hourly time rates. Not even considering paints on top of that. And for a PS. Look into speed painting tips. From the airbrushing to the 'dip' method, always find ways to cut corners and take short-cuts while still achieving a good finished product that the customer enjoys. And uniformity of the 'army / units' is a key to a good finished product. Everything looking like they are part of the same force, except when asked to do so differently, really pays off. Most customers are looking for a nice, table top looking army. And table-top means 'Looks great at arms length!' 3-4 feet away from your face. Thus, getting all the fiddly details isn't that important UNLESS paid to do so by request.
But then youre cutting into the clients paid time. Essentially, thats considered "Time clock fraud" or theft, if youre not careful on how you log your time etc.
I found this with music.. After I studied it, the bands I played in became businesses.. rehearsals became work/writing music was also work.. Then I stopped playing guitar after a wrist issue. About to buy some Orks soon and start painting some Warhammer 40k.. Watching you paint these is stressing me out haha
Back in my grand tournament days I knew a few regulars on the circuit who paid to have their armies painted by other people. I could never do it myself. For me part of the pride and joy of playing and showing off an army at a grand tournament was knowing I customized and painted it myself.
i just recently ordered my first set and am also helping my husband paint his armies too. this video was super helpful My army is adeptus mechanicus and hes doin tyranids
Hey Jon - first time commenter, long time viewer. First of all, love your channel and your content, you're killing it! Secondly, this video is surprisingly well timed! I just started commission painting a little over a month ago and I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far. The insight you provided in this video is highly valuable, and fortunately everything you covered here I heavily considered before taking on a (pre-assembled, thank god) army order. I've got 80 figures that will be on my plate soon, but I'm super excited about the nature of the commission. Wish me luck! Keep on painting!
Awesome vid! I did 3 commission painting jobs while in my studies. I began hating it as it went from a hobby to a job pretty quickly. After that i never took on commissions again as my hobby is holy to me
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Worked for 4 years full time as a commission painter, ended up doing work for companies painting their upcoming releases as a freelancer. In that time I painted about 10 times more armies than I ever have for myself. Learnt a lot about costing, time management, efficiency in painting techniques etc. But it got to a point where I never felt like I was progressing because I didn't have time to push myself. Time meant money. I couldn't afford to mess around and try new things, so my painting became faster but my level stagnated. I got really really unhappy. In the end I shut up shop and got a normal 9-5 office job. It took me 8 months to pick up a paint brush again....and I was always a painter more than a gamer. Now I've applied those techniques learnt over the 4 years and I've started applying them to getting armies for myself done, but I am getting better because if I want to take a bit of time to experiment I can without fear of losing money. I am thoroughly enjoying painting again, and I even take on a few commissions here and there for single pieces or small warbands that I think I'll enjoy. I got out at the right time, it almost killed the passion for the hobby I've been involved in for 25 years.
That's awesome to hear!! I went through something similar with school. Too much work completely killed my drive to create, however through proper time management, medication, and working myself up I've been able to not only paint every new model I get; But also get back into Gunpla! (a childhood hobby of mine) Keep up the good work!
@@jacklangford7149 Been there done that.
so basickly you are telling us in your free time you didnt bother to improve.... jesus fucking christ.
and you didnt even found a balance between what you loved to do and what you did? really... sounds to me like you got some issues.
I’m not reading all that but good job I think
Have you tried painting in VR ?
The moment Jon is unpacking and you think to yourself "he's f*cked" then Jon deadass looks you in the eyes and says "I'm f*cked".
Jon! I have the same pump. They're pricey, but as someone who's used every major brand of pump I can tell you that you picked the best of the bunch. Good luck with managing you diabetes man, you got the best tool to manage it safely and live a normal-ish life
This plus the Dexcom CGM is truly life changing. So glad I have it!
Completely agree! I joined from Medtronic in February and I love the Tandem/Dexcom. My ONLY complaint is the cost of 10 units to reset pump and the slight waste of insulin left in the cartridge at the end (when it thinks it's empty)
Same! 10 units is an absolute waist. But the CGM has really helped my A1C.
It's mind boggling to me how America's health care works. Does it work? I understand that cosmetic surgeries are something that you have to pay yourself, but something that you need to stay alive? No sir. We have limit in what you have to pay yourself in year for all your meds (about 600 dollars) and after that everything is free. And you get all pumps etc for free because you need them and our government wants you to stay alive and healthy.
I mean even 600 bucks is pretty high. Manageable for younger folks with a job but older folks or the working poor are going to have trouble.
7:57 this is why I've never followed the advice for "find a job doing what you love and you'll never work a day in your life". In my experience, anything that I have to do repeatedly, day in day out, regardless of how much I might start out enjoying it, always becomes something I borderline hate.
The finished product looks great!
And the chapter titles made me laugh, yes, people read them ;)
Yep. Ive always believed that the minute im paid to do my hobby, it's become my job. I have enough work in my life.
That's just dumb. There's ups and downs in any job, regardless of whether you like it or not. I don't know why you'd want to work a job your entire life you don't enjoy, I'd much rather do something I do enjoy that have some bad moments attached to it than hate going to work.
@@taserrr I've started out enjoying many jobs I've had, and soon grown to hate every single one. It doesn't matter what the job is, sooner or later, usually sooner, I'll hate it, because I'm having to do it. So I just work for the money. I start at 9 and I finish at 5, I don't work weekends.
@@RequiemWraith Damn that's really really sad. I hope you'll find something that fits you.
The problem isn't what we are doing for a job, the problem is we shouldnt have to do it 9-5, 5 days a week just to live....thats the bullshit part.
Can we talk about how much Jon is killing it in the youtube game? Just 1 year in and he's already on my top RUclipsr list! Keep going Jon I'm so excited for what you're gonna do for the hobby!
Been seeing him for a while. Just suscribed. Top quality content so far
Jon is a dude!
can we talk about the political and economic state of the world right now?
2:35 already have a fatherly smile on my ugly face.
As a commission painter let me give you all potential entrepreneurs a bit of wisdom: NEVER accept a big job if it's not already assembled. Not only is a big waste of time that clients assume it's gonna be magically instantaneous, as if their mind was focusing on the paint without considering previous steps, it's also another potential point of contention; you see people are generally stupid, they will want specific poses without telling you or they will change their minds midway through assembly. Yes, they will be stupid throughout the painting stage as well but at least that's your job. You're a commission PAINTER, not assembler.
Yah I learned my lesson here, big oof
I charge extra for assembling.
Several commission painters I know refuse to paint preassembled models because the work reflects on them regardless and plenty of people are frankly terrible at assembly. However, if you're doing it, you need to charge for it.
@@SparkSovereign Yup, I was a commission painter for 4 years, quite successfully, ending up with contracts with gaming companies to paint their releases etc. In private commissions I refused to paint pre assembled stuff. Two reasons, I could guarantee subassemblies that made sense to my painting process, and secondly the quality issue. Someone sends you models with mold lines, gaps, glue overspill etc, you either spend uncharged time fixing crap or you ignore it and paint away. Given most new commission work is gained on the quality of your work, that really isn't an option. So then you end up with a commission that you can't use pictures from for advertising/social media because you look like a lazy crap painter who doesn't know how to clean a model up or assmble it without using a vat of glue too much...
Agreed! I’ve painted for over 32 years, I charge waaay more if I have to assemble.. lol I should also clarify, if they look rough, I’ll refuse the work, but I’m a retired old guy.. lol
Got into painting models last year during lock down, and have watched so many different creators, just want to say that your style and your videos are probably my favorite out of everyone, thanks for all the tips and just fun content... don't tell scott
@Epic His cat army will cuddle him to death :D
NJM?
@@samuelbroad11 Not Just Mecha a.k.a. Marco Frisoni
Such a *MASSIVE* achievement! The person who comissioned this is extremely lucky. I especially like the shade on the texture paint of the bases, great idea!
I took my first commission job about 6 months ago and was completely shocked with how many new things I was willing to try and how many more risks I was willing to take on someone else's models. In the end, I partially felt like I was payed to go to school. It helped me to see how uptight I am with my own models, and how rewarding loosening up can be.
7 Years! There is no way someone would take that long is there Scott? 😂
Great video as always Jon and what a fantastic army you painted for Nick.
Ultimately I feel commission painting is something most painters should experience at some point not least because it makes you realise the struggles artists have always had and gives you a connection to artists throughout history.
It also highlights to you what others feel is important and can help you to accept, if not fully understand, others perspectives on your work which can definitely make you a better painter.
I really like this perspective. I hadn't been interested in doing any commissions, but I might be a bit open to doing a small one because it would be an interesting experience to go through
I got that very specific reference too! Time to add some Primaris to that Blood Angels army! :)
Hooooooooo my God, even from the beginning of the video I FELT the burnout of how it will be to clean, build, prep, and paint all those miniatures all as one project over the course of a month or two... I couldn't have done it so, WELL DONE!
7 years??? 7 YEARS???
*triggered*
🤣🤣
I don’t know what you’re talking about
😂🤣😂 I love any and every interaction between you two! Keep up the good work, both of you, please!
And, Jon... damned beautiful work, and that orange glow through the full army shot is spectacular!
Only 7?
I recently did a commission during a lockdown here in NZ. Have been saying no to them for a while now, wanting to work on my own projects with my limited free time. But had the extra time and needed the extra cash. Was a good experience, the importance of knowing what your time is worth is key
Dude your really boosting this hobby. Got into it about a month ago, I had been on the fence because I'm a board gamer but wanted to trick out my games so I started watching painting videos. First time I ran across one of your videos I was sold. Jumped right in, painting every other day now and even on my first model I had the knowledge of many techniques to try. It was like I had more ammo than I needed and I could just see how the pieces developed and which techniques would best fit. Have to say you couldn't have made it any easier to get into this. Watched your whole set,, loving the podcast, that shit is hilarious Thanks!
One thing I've always wanted but was never included in army painting videos, is how long it takes to assemble them in addition to painting. I'm glad it was finally touched on here.
11:18, yes I do read the chapter names! Chapters are such a good thing RUclips added, and funny chapters names are always a treat.
One of the things I thought worked really well with the warm shadows was that where it hit the metallic silver, it looked a lot like it was reflecting the environment because of how well the base colors lined up with the shadow color you used. Looks friggin' great!
Are you talking about that orange splotchy looking "glow" I hate it.
I 100% agree. This has been my exact experience as well when it comes to commission painting. It never feels worth it no matter how much you make.
I agree with everything you said. I painted 3 things by commision and were terrible for all the reasons you said but mostly, for the time-price. I calculated a time that would take me to paint it and when it took me longer and i was starting to "work for free"... all my motivation was gone.
Plus some people want golden demon level for 15€
"Plus some people want golden demon level for 15€"
I won "Best painted Model" at a tournament a few years ago, for a Skull Cannon in my Khorne Daemonkin army, and someone offered me $50 US to paint one "just like that" for him.
I'm like "Dude, that took me 40 hours!"🤣
This was pretty eye opening. I just started Warhammer and chose ad mech. Think I'll keep this as a hobby... Wish I had your experience in that army right now though... Thumbs up to you and your team, that had to be crazy to film.
I don't often watch your videos, but knew you really had to work for this one, thought I would throw a comment in for the algorithm as well. As a former commission painter I feel the pain, when I burnt out, it was 18 months before I painted again.
I appreciate you watching!
Jon, I just started the video, but I gotta say these skits just get me so damn hyped for what’s coming. Thank you for doing what you do.
Meanwhile, I've taken months to get through my Sylvaneth Start Collecting box...
My Ork army took about 5 years to a place where you can play it properly. There is no reason to rush through. Play some small games in the meantime and enjoy the ride :D
A first army almost always takes too long, repaintings, and overthinking lol. Ironically my Daemons are very forgiving
I've had a Seraphon starter box on my desk since January. Don't beat yourself up.
Love your vids winter (:
Ser Winter plays Warhammer?!
Fantastic looking army and great video and insight on tackling commissions.
As a small (smallest) scale commission painter I have to say that having a friendly, easily reachable and prompt on feedback "customer" goes a long way in keeping the motivation high and easing the commission burden".
Matching the quality request to the paint style also helps.
Half upfront always is golden rule.
As someone whos done commission painting for years i would have loved this years ago when i started doing it. Ironically my first project i did for money was an entire space wolf army for my buddy. Lmao.
Love your videos more and more. Finally someone being blunt about the time and effort it takes to make an army. So many youtubers make painting vids about "how to paint X" without the slightest regard that it's a warhammer model they are holding and that model goes in an army of some sort. 120 models is not unusual and if assembly + paint + basing + varnishing + cleaning up time between session comes to about 3 hours per model that's 9 full workweeks, lunch not included. If you have 1 hour a day on average for hobbying, it will take a full year to get an army finished. I wish more youtube painters would consider this before they release their how to-vids. Spend 50 hours on a model if you wish, but be clear that models is for display, and not how you get an army done before retirement. Thank you Jon, keep em coming!
Glad that scott didn’t succeed in demotivating you! Fantastic effort, have learned a lot about oil washed from you.
As an occasional illustrator commissions always follow your classic experience: Initial commercial interest, reality sets in, new skills struggled and developed, satisfaction alongside separation anxiety...hey, a deadline helps. And at the very least your craft has been flexed.
Good video! I've been doing commission work for years, at times having it as a full time job. Nowadays I only take on commissions I enjoy painting, so no hordes of boring minis. What I learned is never undersell yourself and it's ok to say no if someone is not willing to pay your price. Your time is valuable.
I totally feel you on doing what you love as a career.
not only is this a HUGE commission, but it's one of the most detailed armies in the game, i can't believe you did it haha
Fantastic info here and as usual a high quality video!
I’ve been a full-time commission painter for 19 years now. It’s important to determine how much time stages in a project take and be honest with yourself about it or it’ll cost you. You’re right that cleaning and assembly can sometimes take more time that the actual painting. Basing can too. It’s important your customers understand that.
Man, I feel ya on the Insulin Pump fees. My wife is Type 1 and we switched to a pump and meter system this year and ... oof. I'll be joining the Patreon next week to slide you some freedombucks.
Thank you Peter! And I’m sure it will be a great change for your wife, just maybe not the upfront cost!
@@Ninjon Who is Peter? lol. Yes- the quality of life is much improved with the pump vs the old prick and poke method.
you literally hit on every reason i stopped doing commissions more than 2 years ago... and ive never looked back. i felt your paint through this video but saw great results and the owner has a beautiful army. great job jon.
I actually did some commission painting a couple weeks ago for my D&D group, just some PC characters. I actually really enjoyed it and my fellow players were really happy with the results. I have no intention of painting a whole damn army mind you but a couple mini's here and there is actually pretty refreshing.
My first commission job was hundreds of orks and gretchin ... almost gave up as soon as i started lmao .. didn't ask for material costs, didnt ask for building costs. Pretty much painted them for next to nothing. Total nightmare .. but hell .. I survived to do lots more :D --- - The skitarii do look pretty epic though :D
This man paints a highly detailed 2000pt army like a pro while I still struggling to paint my starter sets.
Its almost like at this point he IS a pro :P
If you are getting paid, you are a professional...
Great video as always. Commissions are not for everyone, I think once you accept the first one that is different from your vision, it can get a little soul crushing
Was the “7 years” a dig at scott? 😂
It was, and a very classy one at that
Oh yes, yes it was. Every time Scott sees a Blood Angel model he gets a little older. lol
Who, me?
@@Ninjon that moment where RUclips should allow pictures to put the "oh you" meme with the guy and the doggo
There is a section of this video that hits me personally. I became a GW store runner almost 3 years ago and it very quickly became a 'job' and my own personal hobby has suffered greatly ever since. Im looking at ways of combating this in only working on non-GW things at home and such and it's slowly becoming something I love again but I can 100% relate to the notion of getting paid for you hobby can really hurt your own personal hobby. Funnily enough your channel and Scotts channel has really helped me find my own hobby again
Geek gaming scenics did a really good video about pricing commissions, and thinking about all the materials to charge for
Kudos on the T1D mention! Fellow T1D here, and in my 20+ years in this hobby I have never heard about another painter/wargamer with our condition until now!
Same just getting back into miniature painting and stumbled on his stuff I think it’s cool that there are fellow t1d also into this.
Hey Jon, great video and great job in taking down all those minis! I'd never paint for commission (also 10$/hr? boy that's low wage...) but the video was still greatly inspirational to slay my own gray!!!
The opening skit is very relateable haha. I'm a commission painter and my queue is all one client. Sitting under my desk I've got: 3 riptides, 2 starpulse cadres, 9 SC Tau boxes, 9 hammerheads, 3 valkyries, 9 tuning fork battlesuits, and 9 hornets. "I'm fucked" sums it up nicely.
"Yes, it requires an airbrush. But I think that it makes such a big impact that I'll definitely be using this step on all of my future armies."
Plus, if you're even considering doing commission painting, you really should get an airbrush. It's a business expense, and it'll allow you to do your job more easily and efficiently. Work smarter, not harder.
I relate to these outtakes at the end, so much. Thanks for being amazing, Jon!
Watching Ninjon is always ~ worth the squeeze ~ 😏
Hey there buddy! Just wanted to say thank you. I've been watching your videos for quite some time now and I've discovered that those army painting videos you make are the perfect thing to watch while I paint my own armies. Gets me feeling like I'm accomplishing something with someone wich makes me be very proud
"Does anyone read these?"
Yes, my dude, yes they do.
Thank you for posting this!
After my first month of miniature painting I was asked to paint 1 mini by a person and 2 minis from another.
I was first painting because I was looking for something to help regulate my mental health and I painted outside, where others noticed my work and thus I was offered my first commissions.
I contemplated with myself whether or not I should even be accepting commissions as i was only a couple weeks fresh into the hobby.
I wanted to get the 2 minis out of the way first as it was the bigger load, and it took me a week to complete them both. but the other person who wanted 1 was asking me every single day how their mini was coming along, and I had explained many times over I hadn't started it yet and that I hadn't forgotten about it.
The pressure took my fun away and I needed to take a break from painting even for myself.
I wasnt ready for commission work, and I'm taking my time before getting ready for that stage :p
I would like to paint a lot more for myself so I can even say I have the proper skill to paint for someone else.
When you first mentioned this project on Trapped Under Plastic, I got a bit worried that it would take you so long to finish that Ad Mech would get nerfed before the client had a chance to play with the army in its full overpowered glory. Well they're still tier S in 40k so you avoided that!
Also, it's funny how you mentioned going subtler with the glow effect, and then you show the full army shots where it really feels a bit overdone, haha. It all looks great, and I found the basing especially interesting, using such non-red colors as both shadow and highlight. I'm going to try something like that on my current army
The under shadow technique is a new one for me and I can't wait to use it. Great vid, Jon.
first of all, sympathies for the absolute fuckery by US healthcare. second of all, you've done a PHENOMENAL job on this army, that airbrush under-highlight is something I really want to try myself now, and that custom wash looked absolutely gorgeous.
Man that project looks massive! Loved seeing all the techniques.
final orange airbrush work ruined the models
This video helpt me a lot on my first commission painting. Fast response on communication and good foto’s what the mini should look like is /are essential. Figuring out the price of you’re work and time was the hardest part. The bonus for me is that it pushed / forced me in becoming a better painter. Thx Ninjon, this was really helpful.
when you added the orange you made these look awful
Fantastic video, Jon. It’s awesome to see you really breaking down the process and showing the highs, and the lows, of such a large project.
Those leathery wings with undershadow look very cool!
11:18
Yes, yes we do Ninjon. And you've got an amazing channel worth watching and getting inspired by!
I have only been painting 1.5 years and go to do some commissions already. I learn so much because it forces me to paint something I wouldn’t normally pick. Also forcing me to paint faster sped up my learning curve. I do love getting to give someone the finished product and see them happy :)
Fantastic video, Jon! That was quite an accomplishment! Thank you for sharing your business acumen, methodology, psychology and techniques.
Great video my friend! as a fellow RUclips Creator, and Commission Painter, i can relate to much of what you said. Pricing can literally make or break a project. in the end both parties should feel good about the arrangement! thanks for making such high quality videos!
Wow. I have been watching your videos as my binge "good-listening to" while painting for the past few weeks. Stumbled on you by accident. Was so excited to see you get your new insulin pump! I've been diabetic 27 years now and I just extremely empathized with the feelings around getting one. Slay the Gray man.
These look superb! Loved the orange fluro paint, nice touch to really make the models pop. I've dabbled with commission painting but never any projects this big, fair play for getting them done dude.
6:34 I'll tell you what you do then. You send two certified copies of a written request for payment, one to them and one to yourself, which you don't open. In this letter you itemize the work thats been done and the total payment due, and inform them that they have 30 days from the date of receipt of the notice to provide payment, or the items listed will be sold on EBay to recover the your loses.
You have my highest respects for taking on such job and taking that opportunity to educate us.
I have been doing the undershading recently, too. Immediately improved the look of my models. Love it.
My first commission job was a 3000 point Biel-Tan Eldar army. I learned a TON and loved the experience but it was because each unit was different. I didn’t get slogged down in sameness. It was the first and last full army I painted for commission.
Models look absolutely fantastic! If you look at any one of them, it feels that you've put all the love and dedication into painting it. Totally insane when you see 120 of those at one.
I did this for someone's Ork army last year. No regrets. It was a lot of fun and I learned a bunch of things doing it.
Another fantastic, honest video. Very entertaining and some great techniques on show.
11:19 yeah we do. Great job mate, keep up the amazing work!
i used to paint armies for GW many many eons ago and used to do commissions so sir i feel your joys and lows doing this
What sort of projects did you do?
Another great vid Jon, thanks for the simple explanation of under painting had a “oh that’s what it is” moment 👍
This is, hands down, the most relatable video I've watched of yours. I got into the hobby and then I painted a few DnD figures for some co-workers. Before I knew it, I was painting one of my co-workers entire collection of Star Wars Imperial Assault miniatures. I remember how much the paint hated the material of the minis and wouldn't stick and I'd spend a lot of time just continually trying to reapply it. I also always felt guilty if I painted some of my models during the commission. It was a good experience and the money helped me when I left my job during Covid, but I'm glad to be back to my models. Great video!
Tons of good advice in this video, notably the part about not super highlighting every little detail--I can be BAD about that last bit, just pecking away and pecking away and saying "Gotta get that bit, and that bit and THAT BIT...!!!!" I'm getting better at and about saying "OK, this is DONE NOW," and having done with it. I've done all of one commission and it was relatively painless, and if someone else would like me to paint stuff for them in the future, you raised good questions to ask early on and get out of the way. As well as important issues to not skirt around. Thanks as ever, Jon!
Really like your content Jon, and as a healthcare provider I share your frustration when it comes to our healthcare system. Keep it up!
Wow, what a truly impressive army of minis. Amazingly painted. Thank you for sharing.
I really enjoyed this video. Thanks Jon.
Sorry you didnt get to keep the army. It looks AMAZING!
I really enjoyed your process. I always enjoy when creators try to maximize effect for minimal effort. It inspires me to "slay the grey". I will come back and rewatch this one for sure.
I’d really love to see you do some blood bowl pieces, I’ve been painting them for years and they always seem to be cartoony when I do no matter how I try not to do that
Fun Video :)
Honestly, as someone who does the occasional commission, the only advice I can give to anyone just starting is always, ALWAYS start with your freinds models (those friends who don't enjoy painting) as you already have a level of trust with them and you know what they're like. If you go for someone you don't know off the bat then there are major risks that you're maybe unprepeared for. Get some of your friends models painted, build a portfolio and you'll also self-confidance to paint for other people before tackling people you don't know.
i ordered a commission project once, probably spent about 5k for about 3-4k points of custodes as well as 30 sisters. took almost a year to complete because when i first got them there were shoddy paint jobs all around and i kid you not some of the models and pieces that hadn’t even been primed. in a way it was kind of good because it got me to start painting my own models
Great video, and great advice for those looking to get into the commission scene. Also, yes, people do read the segment titles. Good little hidden Question!
I’ve done one commission, for a coworker. It went well and I got to paint something I usually don’t (Necrons). I didn’t kill him with my price, especially since they’re painted to a high tabletop standard, I’m certainly not a master! The only other thing I asked him to do was give my info to his gaming group for future jobs. We’ll see how it goes.
Whoa there, that is A LOT of models. And you've painted them up to a high standard too. Awesome :D
I'ma comission painter and what you mention in min 8:00 aprox. is exactly what drives me, I love having a finished product for someone else, so much more that for myself, I paint my armies tabletop and lazy, but I love putting the extra effort in someone else's
Tips I used to use for commission painting.
Paint some of your minis alongside those of the commission. You're already 'assembly-lining' everything and there's always some of your own stuff you need to get done but lack full motivation to do. Takes a wee bit longer to do but you're killing 2 birds with one stone. Also, if you're doing the same scheme with theirs as yours, you get some more experience in. And IF you're doing the same types of minis (same army or project) keep the best ones for yourself and let the other guy have the (slightly) lesser job.
Like the vid said, know your limits on what you can take on at any given time. A small project (like a Kill Team or Bloodbowl team) may be a good start for newbies. Full armies are...hella taxing on everything.
And always ensure you're getting the best fees possible. Whether you use a tier system for quality and cost or guesstimating an hourly rate and time to do the commission, err on the side of you profiting more. IF you end up feeling you over charged them, you can always add in more detail or give them a kick-back on fees. They'll be happier if you do and that leads to repeat business and happy customers giving rave reviews and word of mouth business.
Lastly, like he noted, take into consideration the cost of supplies as well as wear and tear on your equipment used.
Xacto blades, clippers, brushes, and the like wear out eventually along with some wear to your air brush and compressor if you use that. That's a 'plus cost' in addition to your hourly time rates. Not even considering paints on top of that.
And for a PS.
Look into speed painting tips. From the airbrushing to the 'dip' method, always find ways to cut corners and take short-cuts while still achieving a good finished product that the customer enjoys.
And uniformity of the 'army / units' is a key to a good finished product. Everything looking like they are part of the same force, except when asked to do so differently, really pays off. Most customers are looking for a nice, table top looking army.
And table-top means 'Looks great at arms length!' 3-4 feet away from your face. Thus, getting all the fiddly details isn't that important UNLESS paid to do so by request.
But then youre cutting into the clients paid time. Essentially, thats considered "Time clock fraud" or theft, if youre not careful on how you log your time etc.
Outrageous what’s happening with insulin in the USA health system. Awesome work on that massive army
I found this with music.. After I studied it, the bands I played in became businesses.. rehearsals became work/writing music was also work.. Then I stopped playing guitar after a wrist issue. About to buy some Orks soon and start painting some Warhammer 40k.. Watching you paint these is stressing me out haha
Back in my grand tournament days I knew a few regulars on the circuit who paid to have their armies painted by other people. I could never do it myself. For me part of the pride and joy of playing and showing off an army at a grand tournament was knowing I customized and painted it myself.
11:18 yes, we do. thanks for the 20 seconds of the DETOLF cabinet! One day perhaps...
My favorite thing about doing commissions is knowing that someone cared enough about my art to pay for my time to get it. It's very humbling.
i just recently ordered my first set and am also helping my husband paint his armies too. this video was super helpful
My army is adeptus mechanicus and hes doin tyranids
Hey Jon - first time commenter, long time viewer. First of all, love your channel and your content, you're killing it! Secondly, this video is surprisingly well timed! I just started commission painting a little over a month ago and I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far. The insight you provided in this video is highly valuable, and fortunately everything you covered here I heavily considered before taking on a (pre-assembled, thank god) army order. I've got 80 figures that will be on my plate soon, but I'm super excited about the nature of the commission. Wish me luck! Keep on painting!
15:32
Wait you can blow just air out of the gun to dry paint faster. Your the 1st person I've heard suggest that. Thanks dude!!
Those bases are SO NICE for how much time they took, definitely going to steal that idea for my swampy gitz!
They turned out great! Its always good to be real about the pains of commission painting but also the fun parts too. Happy Halloween, Jon!
Awesome vid! I did 3 commission painting jobs while in my studies. I began hating it as it went from a hobby to a job pretty quickly. After that i never took on commissions again as my hobby is holy to me