If they kept the duration of exaustion to 1 minute per round in rage I'm pretty sure berserker would be cherrished as the go to for building the basic BONK barbarian
Agreed. I think that’s because exhaustion isn’t the same as fatigued. Fatigue is a status effect, alike to the poisoned condition, exhaustion is NEGATIVE LEVELS but renamed. Edit: reworded this comment to be more polite
@@FluffyTurbo Ki kind of adds alot of utility to monks that fighters just dont have. I played a champion in a campaign and my turns were "I run up and attack, with me once in awhile burning action surge to attack again)
@@FluffyTurbo R u kidding? Champion is objectively the easiest subclass. U literally get a higher crit chance and an extra fighting style. As the one above me said theirs a lot more abilities to keep track of that u can do with ki abilities. Like with open hand do u wanna knock the enemy prone, take away their reaction, or push em back (and that’s just with open hand abilities and only counting what u have to keep track of at lv 3). Fighter itself is the easiest class if u ask me. Theirs not much to them unless u go eldritch knight and have to keep track of spells (same with monk with four elements kinda). Hell I would say Fighter, Barbarian, and rogue r all easier to play as then monk (that’s in order to).
*Ancestral Guardian:* Summon your Stand, 「HEIDEVOLK」, to protect yourself from all harm. *Totem Warrior:* Refuse to die by virtue of the bear you ate whole to gain its strength. *Zealot:* Call upon your righteous fury to smite your foes and go beyond your earthly limits. *Storm Herald:* Gaia herself guides you to wreak havoc as an avatar of her reckoning. *Berserker:* You can be tired. If you really try hard enough, you can be dead.
I alter Frenzy for my home games. Instead of taking a level of exhaustion, the Berserker can only use Frenzy a number of times equal to their Constitutions modifier.
I homebrewed a rule for my berserker, when he exits frenzy he can choose to spend an additional rage point to negate the effects of exhaustion. It's simple to keep a track of, lets him use frenzy multiple times, and makes the choice of entering frenzy a bit more tactical.
My group just makes it so while you are raging, you don’t suffer from the effects of exhaustion, I don’t know if you have a better rule or not, what do you think?
@@reddeath4006 There are pros and cons to both. I think what sucks about Frenzy is that you're being punished for using it too severely. You either need to take a nap, or become a liability to the group. Your method works well if the group is diverse enough to cover for Barbarian's ability checks, outside of combat. My method suffers from imposing a certain mentality on a player. A level 5 Barbarian would be able to enter Frenzy 2 times, and of course, why wouldn't he? You would always go Frenzy on your first encounter. It warps Frenzy from being your ultimate ability to a resource to spend. Meaning, it's very likely the Barbarian would enter Frenzy each time there's combat, and then tries really hard to take a long rest afterwards.
@@Lomniko Well that's exactly the problem. It's a LEVEL THREE ability, not an "Ultimate" ability as you so put it. It just feels outright bad to feel the need to homebrew something as simple as the first subclass feature from one of the most universally basic and understood subclasses, the very very angry barbarian.
@@mofire5674 Especially considering that, due to the Exhaustion mechanic, basically every other subclass is just better. Like hmm, do I wanna do an extra attack every turn at the cost of crippling myself or: -Become resistant to _all damage BUT psychic_ -Call upon the spirits of my ancestors to aid me in combat -Deal bonus damage with every hit AND passively negate the expense barrier of revival spells if I happen to die somehow And so on and so forth.
My DM made a rule change of taking a D8 of psychic damage to get yourself psyched up, it can't be reduced in any way. But it prevents the exhaustion. The damage is miniscule at later levels, but getting that extra swing at the cost of a bonus action and some HP makes it more viable, especially if you have a healer on deck to keep you up.
Tasha's should have reworked the Berserker entirely like they did the Ranger and especially Beastmaster. I'm currently trying to homebrew a version of the Berserker that realizes its intended flavor better
@@jcdenton2187 keep the fremzy the same. But, after they finish frenzying, they roll a con save with a DC:10. If they pass, no exhaustion. Each frenzy it increases by 5, until they fail, then it resets to 10 for the next one and so on. Also, You could homebrew it so the Intimidating presence uses your strength mod, as some dms (me included) will let players use strength for intimidation, if it's better than their charisma. As a hulking minotaur Barbarain is terrifying, whether they can use long words or not. Another possible fix would be you could frenzy half the number of rages you have per short/long rest and get rid of the exhaustion.
@@rocksnrolls These are the changes that are most commonly accepted for it yes. Doesn't overcomplicate the class and still keeps the niche of the Berserker.
Beware the berserker. Frenzy is bad when you have it because exhaustion and frenzy is bad when enemies have it because they don't need to worry about the rest of their adventuring day.
Or just have it burn 2 hit die per use of Frenzied Rage. Since hit die restore slowly (but not at a snails pace) and the tank is more often using them on short rests, the barbarian would need to decide between 'defensive' hit die pool or go full offense. So if the character runs out of hit die (or only has one left), they can't frenzy. Another alternative, they don't frenzy rage. While raging, every frenzy attack they make burns one hit die (which is probably too costly even with short battles). Strangely, I keep hearing about battles running into five rounds. This is very very rare for me with most of my battles running 1.5 to 3 rounds. Even my big battles only run long if there is a major environmental challenge like large distances or aerial combat [like fighting Harpies and Perytons in the air while riding Giant Eagles (who are actually NPC-Pixie-Polymorphed NPC-Hunters) and the Harpy villain is a warlock with legendary actions and Fiendish Vigor - that battle went very differently than I expected; 1-on-1 games are so fun].
@@Iceblade423 I house ruled frenzied berserkers to get at 5th level you can frenzy a number of times equal to 1/2 your con mod rounded up per long rest at no penalty....no one has yet to play it and our other 2 DMs also used that and still no takers, it's been 2 years heh. Also there is a sort of fix for frenzy in UA using multiclassing as a ranger and picking up the alternate class feature at level 1that lets you recover exhaustion on a short rest. With Tasha's coming out soon there's a fair chance this might be in it. 1st-level ranger feature (replaces Natural Explorer) You are an unsurpassed explorer and survivor. Choose one of the following benefits, and then choose another one at 6th and 10th level. Tireless As an action, you can give yourself a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier. You can use this special action a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest. In addition, whenever you finish a short rest, your exhaustion level, if any, is decreased by 1.
@@keaering5183 That rule won't be going in as a first level ability due to this very multiclass. In fact, this situation results in a multiclass tax on the berserker.
The Berserker actually does pretty nicely with this one simple change: You only get exhaustion if it's your second frenzy before a short rest. It does still make the player think about it, but is not taxing to the point of making you choose between playing your class and gimping your character for the day.
@@zarthemad8386making a class immune to exhaustion is like making a race not have to eat or sleep or take a rest within half the time a normal person needs to- It’s just *super annoying*, it’s like adding mechanics to the game just to remove them for narrative reasons and ultimately it just doesn’t make sense as to why specific things just get to be you but better- so there’s no real reason to say “beserker immune to exhaustion” BUT there’s a good reason to try and change around beserker a bit to make frenzy not have exhaustion but do something else or just remove exhaustion from frenzy as a whole, the answer is going to vary from gm to gm but when you start to stack “haha I don’t care about that” features it starts to get a little graining Like if a warforged took frenzy barbarian and just NEVER stacked exhaustion ever they could just never HAVE to rest, since they already don’t have to eat or sleep, or if (heaven forbid) an elf took beserker barbarian not only would they be resistant to a pool of magic saves, rest in half the time a normal player does, but also just outright ignore exhaustion so they can trick through whatever silly plans they have- it falls apart quickly, But it’s your game and your gm, do what you will and what they rule
Star Wars 5e does this and then takes it a step further by saying that they recover from 2 levels of exhaustion per long rest These two changes make a MASSIVE difference
I'll say the same thing about Berserkers having to deal with exhaustion that I do at the Sharpshooter feat breaking the cover mechanic: "Aha, you fool! You assume my players EVEN PAY ATTENTION to those rules!" (cries in DM)
@@certanmike That is true for full casters with a focus, but not for rangers, arcane tricksters etc. Somatic and verbal components also affect how someone will react to you casting a spell. If you are in a court room and cast suggestion, it sounds great in theory, but some dude mumbeling whilst staring at the judge will be very suspicious. Components also affect casting while sneaking or in silence, casting while restrained (in handcuffs etc) and so on. I think just ignoring them (like most groups including mine do) really takes away from the magic system and sorcerers in particular (because it makes subtle spell useless)
it also works every time you enter the aoe so if you have another warlock or 2 with the push/pull eldritch blast you can kill anything that can die from exhaustion in a round or two even with legendary saves by pulling them in and out of the aoe.
@@VxdspawnVx pull is once per TURN. Not on every beam. Push however is on every single hit, though, Push is unlimited but Slow and Pull are very limited.
@@g80gzt where does it say the pull effects are once per turn? Is it errata? Because it sure doesn't say it in the description of the class feature. *Edit* Nevermind I'm wrong, but it's weird.
"Feats are optional rules", said pretty much everyone, while also playing with them always. Here's another kicker for Frenzy: Great Weapon Master. if you eliminate something or get a crit, you'll get the benefit of frenzy for that turn anyway. It's arguably the most common/effective feat for barbarians.
There's also Polearm Master. While it provides a less powerful bonus attack it provides that every time you swing on top of letting you Attack of Opportunity opponents that can't beat the shit out of you unless they get close to you. Both attacks get the full benefit of your rage.
I've only seen one GM stick to "no-feats", and the same guy was pretty anti-fun imo. Both multiclassing and feats were banned because "they are cheating".
Honestly, it sounded like he was bashing on the whole class too. Barbarians are the simplest class? Yeah, no, that's the fighter. Everybody's always saying to new players to stay away from Spellcasters and just play a Barbarian? I never heard anyone say that before, ever! The truth is that nobody plays a Barbarian unless they're trying to play a Grog look alike? Load of Shlock; I played a Barbarian in 5e before I knew Grog existed! Barbarian's are too simple? Hey, Brutal Critical isn't exactly easy to remember when you have a 1 out of 20 chance of scoring a critical hit; plus you need to pay attention to how your rage is affected concerning rounds and things that can end it early. Seriously, the Champion Fighter is the simplest subclass to play; it's a straight forward subclass for a straight forward class.
This whole thing reminds me of one quote I read in a D&D book somewhere (can't remember which or where I read it), which was "The rules serve the DM, not the other way around". As I've seen many other people say in the comments, they simply have their own house rules or versions in regards to the ability or exhaustion in general. So long as you make it clear to everyone this is how it's working in your game, a small tweaking of the rules isn't that bad a thing... unless you're the DM I'm currently with who threw half the rule book out to make the whole thing "thematic" >_>
@@flyingfree333 ^This, exactly. Even if Adventurer's League DMs _wanted_ to change the system for players, they can't. They are obligated to run the game by the book. Also, no amount of house-ruling changes the fact that the Rules As Written for Berzerker Barbarian are bad.
@@Bluecho4 It's not bad, every other ability it gets is really good, and, with a big two-handed weapon like a greataxe and maybe great weapon master, a frenzied rage gives you the highest extra damage output of all the barbarian subclasses that deal extra damage So yes, it does cost a lot, maybe it should be a little less costly, but it's still definitely worth it. Not to mention that several other classes can pick up Greater Restoration, which, while costly, by the time you can pick it up, you can probably easily afford the 100 gp worth of diamond dust, and it's fairly likely that you have a bard, druid, or cleric who wouldn't mind using that if it's needed.
I liked the flavor and the idea of adding bloodied into 5e (where if you are at half or less of your max HP you are bloodied) and then have frenzy be usable when bloodied with no downside, granted I guess it could cause some issue because you need to get hurt to use it.
Well, an extra attack each round for the rest of your rage. Make it to 5th level and you get three attacks per round. Kick in Reckless Attack, and each one of those attacks has Advantage. Plus you still get your Barbarian bonus damage of +2. Basically, it's a nuclear option. As such, Frenzy is optional during Rage, and does not affect other class features.
@@Wolfrover Yeah, but if you have to burn that early after a long rest you're going to have a shitty session. Playing on permanent disadvantage for checks is not fun. Playing with exhaustion is one of the easiest ways to get that player to attempt nothing.
@@Wolfrover As someone else already said just play any other subclass and pick up Polearm master. Or literally the multiple other ways to get an extra bonus attack that can do just as much dmg. Like great weapon fighting or taking the feat that gives u a fighting style to start dual wielding. Your core mechanic is completely replaced and worse then just taking a single feat since none of those give a point of exhaustion. In fact since only 1 point of exhaustion goes away after a long rest if u use it twice in a day u won’t fully recover the next day. I mean u can save it just for a boss fight but what if theirs more then one boss in a day and what’s the point in picking this if your gonna be that scarce with it? Literally pick any other subclass and your better off due to not gaining exhaustion for using your core ability but can get what said core mechanic is on literally any other subclass on top of what u get on that subclass. Literally Zealot Barbarians get the thing later on where as long as they are raging they can’t be killed even if it’s a killing blow and theirs no save or anything required so as long as u get healed before your rage ends u can’t die ever. All Barbarians get an ability similar to this but it can’t be a killing blow and it’s a save that gets harder and harder. That and the Bear Barbarians with all the resistances. Yea these are so much better then literally anything the Berserker can do (and I could continue as well).
@@Wolfrover give the barbarian an adamantine weapon (let’s be honest, it’s probably a greataxe) and if those three attacks hit, that’s at bare minimum 15d12+15.
Here's a simple fix for Frenzied Rage: "When your rage ends, you must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or you suffer one level of exhaustion. Each time you succeed on this saving throw, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10." Overall, this fix would allow a berserker to frenzy once per day with a generously high chance of avoiding the exhaustion penalty (up to an 80% chance of success on their first saving throw at 3rd-level; guaranteed success on their first saving throw can be obtained as early as 9th-level), while also placing a soft limit on how often they can use this feature. Plus, this fix is very similar the Relentless Rage feature, which should keep the berserker subclass simple to learn and easy to play.
it's like a homebrew subclass of a barbarian i am playing that has a DC sav starting at very low score anmd increasing after every success until you fail, if i fail my next turn i attack the closest thing near me, with that change, BOOM you now have a frenzy barbarian using his con (which if its high for the big health bonus) can be really good to keep him from passing out dead because he wanted to make sure his can protect his or her team
Don't forget to add the tough and sentinel feats as well to your totem in order to give your DM the true embodiment of meat shield and multiclsss into brute fighter for action surge and second wind so that even if you get bellow a 10th of your health just hard flex and recover it all
@@guardiangamer6528 how do you guys decide the aggro of the enemy? right now i'm having them rolling a d6 if two or more characters are in range or if two or more characters are the biggest threat. unless it is a "personal" battle, then it's easier for me. But, how about you guys? Asking here becuase since you make a meat shield, without any form of "taunt" it might not be super useful.
@@MasterSuchiro Nah, if you have a paladin or rogue in the party... especially if it's an assasin rogue, go Wolf Totem... not as tanky but it will make sure everything gets killed near you
The only time I played a pure Champion fighter was for a 10th-ish level game where I was was just a guest-player to help out with a specific encounter (the DM thought they might need the help), and I needed to whip up a character on very short notice. Man, it is *boring*. I get that there's all kinds of ways to gussy-up "I swing my sword", but 90% of it still boils down to "I swing my sword". Sure, I could throw stuff...but what stuff can I throw at CR 10+ creatures that would be more useful than hitting them with my sword? And yeah, I can grapple or shove...but why bother? I can *try* to knock someone prone to get advantage with my sword, but I'm better off just hitting them with mys word since that doesn't give all my ranged party members disadvantage against the same enemy. Out of combat, I remember trying to find any moment where I could be uniquely useful amid all the powerful multiclass spellcasters, and being really excited when there was an opportunity to use Remarkable Athlete to leap across a pit of acid and rescue a child NPC. One of the spellcasters just teleported over and took care of it before I could even speak my plan. 2/10 would've rather been a samurai.
@Warlok Ah, with full 1-for-1 progression in THAC0 by level, ability to use all forms of armor and weapons, gain more than +2 hp per hit dice from Constitution, percentile Strength, Weapon Specialization, and D10 hit dice, Fighters in 2e can and do kick ass. Too bad it costs 2 nonweapon proficiency slots to be literate as one, though.
Me and my D&D group agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with this sentiment. For my campaign, I've added a few homebrew buffs to the Berserker: - During a Frenzy Rage, your Rage damage is doubled (so +2 becomes +4 damage). - Mindless Rage gives Stun immunity - Intimidating Presence is now an AoE (Number of enemies equal to your Con mod in a 30 foot radius), and the DC is now calculated off of your Con, rather than Charisma. Just some small changes, but they've gone a LONG way in improving one of my player's enjoyment of the sub-class.
@ReplicaSwordsam I know you’re trying to make it stronger, but why would you make it Constitution modifier number of creatures and not str modifier or charisma modifier, or just have it be all of the creatures in that radius with no regards to numbers. Because the fear factor a barbarian instills is more dependent on how strong he is, or how he is able to convey his strength rather than how healthy or how good his endurance is.
@@Exisist5151 I think it’s more because con is essentially the secondary stat of a barbarian (Like wisdom for Monk and charisma for paladin), and the fact that it’s charisma really bogs down the ability due to not all barbarians wanting to have high charisma. Although I do agree that strength does make more sense.
@@leonardodehammer8158 I think their point is it makes no sense for the barbarian's immune system to be the most scary thing about him. If it was his sheer destructive power (strength) or his ability to intimidate (charisma) it would make sense. About making sense rather than making it more effective.
@@KruxisV not by a mile, that would be "strength". Constitution is really meant to be physiological hardyness, and not necessarily due to muscles: SORCERERS have Con a saving throw, and they're a friggin magic casting class with a d6 for their Hit Point dice
There's one spell I know that can cause exhaustion: Dream. Often overlooked, this spell can make a warlock lethal from incredible range so far as they are on the same plane of existence. Target your enemy and have friends go into a trance while you take a short rest to regain your spells and you can have Dream ready for anytime they sleep. If they fail the wisdom save six times (or add two more times every time they do save and take away one point of exhaustion) then with six ticks of exhaustion they kick the bucket! It's also the best nighttime messenger spell as you can contact anyone before bed and converse back and forth until you have all the information you need
Dream is also pretty wild since it deals enough damage to possibly kill your average commoner. Kill that shopkeeper from a country away! But unless your DM is using variant rules, you don't get a level of exhaustion from skipping a long rest. It's only an optional rule in Xanathar's that skipping a long rest could induce a con save for exhaustion. If you wanted, your PC could go their entire life without taking the mechanical benefits of a long rest (maybe you're one of those people who likes a segmented sleep cycle), and nothing bad would happen to them.
here's another one for your list. Sickening Radiance. sure the exhaustion only lasts as long as the spell does, but it's pretty brutal. had it used against our party consistently, and it's a scary spell.
Straight-up my favorite spell in the game. Sending has nothing on dream. Want an incredibly long, convoluted message? Dream. Want to try to trick the enemy into betraying/mistrusting their allies? Dream. Kill from an incredible distance, and so much more. It is perhaps one of, if not the most versatile spell in the game, and is limited only by what you make of it.
Quoting Paladinman41 up in the comments "I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over my Kalashtar Totem Warrior's RESISTANCE TO ALL DAMAGE" and I might add that they also get immunity to the dream spell...
There were quite a few times when exhaustion seriously screwed up Grog during campaign 1. I distinctly remember him dropping straight-up dead after crit-failing a save that he otherwise would have passed, all because he'd accumulated three levels of exhaustion.
@@chaddixon9764 Along with the fact that they ignored plenty of stat debuffs and called it homebrewing, frenzied attacks that were made, and the boots of haste are two examples. Using Critical Role as an example is never good, because they don't really follow the rules, and it take you either doing leg work to figure out what sounds wrong and right and when you want to inform others BAM you're a "Rules Lawyer." @Zee Bashew could literally make dozens of videos on all the mess ups. fudges, and overall blatant disregard of skills, abilities, and rules ignored or not explained, it would be interesting and insightful however people would think he nothing more than a "Hater."
@@Kebutor Correction: Season 1 of Critical Role didn't follow the rules closely. And whilst I get your point about the boots of haste, homebrewing isn't breaking the rules.
@@RasmusVJS I agree, but listening to them talk about homebrewing and there is only one or two items they created but it was more ignoring rules and conditions and calling it homebrewing. The DM does have final say and can allow rule changes but when they have left things in the air and made people watching it either figure it out or argue about it shows poor planning or direction.
I was reading the Berserker subclass when I was a newbie and was like. "What's exhaustion?" I read what exhaustion was and realized that it was definitely not worth it. So I went with Ancestral Guardian.
Also the fact that if you Rage/Frenzy as a bonus action, you can't use its CORE BENEFIT until your next turn. Because the extra attack it gives is also a Bonus Action.
I also love how your character handles the poleaxe...just the whole thing, postures, resting, strikss...Nice new character and the whole music and movements of the character remind me of both Spyro the Dragon and Sly Cooper...congrats, you made a character for a Barbarian Video Game you Wizard!
C'mon, no one actually PLAY'S Champion Fighter, it's just there so their Barbarian/Rogue/Paladin can take a three level dip into it for Action Surge and the expanded crit range.
@@curnott6051 one of my party members plays champion fighter. She works 12 hours a day, and we always find a way to work in her loud snoring into the campaign. Low initiative? Fighter was shaking off her nap. Party having breakfast after long rest? Fighter is sleeping in. Tied to chairs and being interrogated? You get the idea
@@privatezim3637 Succubus's Charm ability works differently from the "Charmed" condition. It's basically Dominate Person, so yeah. The barb will do nothing but attack the party.
This has always been my point about Berserker. Agreed, Frenzy could use work, and the Fear ability based on Cha is.. underwhelming. However, the rest of the Subclass has a very solid combat flow. Since brain saves tend to be a Barb’s worst nightmare (as both a player and a DM, I’ve simply planeshifted Barbs out of “existence” multiple times), the ability to not even miss a beat against charm and fright (SUPER common late-game effects) is quite appealing. The damage-reaction attacks are really good too, guaranteed use of Reactions for damage output, less reliance on the enemy moving in order to make Opportunity Attacks. As it stands, the way to play is to choose not to Frenzy, because it IS optional. They can use a normal Rage, OR Frenzy. That is how the ability is written. So, save Frenzy for Boss type monsters and just enjoy the rest of the benefits the rest of the time. (Frenzy could still use work tho, maybe make it something like “while Frenzied, whenever you take the attack action on your turn, you can make an additional attack”, which keeps in theme with the idea of the subclass, and leaves the benefit of things like Two Weapon Fighting or Great Weapon Master still viable. I feel people would be less tweaked about it that way.)
A straight extra attack is really powerful when combined with GWM - at level 5 potentially dealing: 4 x 2d6+5+10 damage - or approximately 88 damage per round (i.e. could single-handedly beat a boss encounter for the whole party in about 3 turns).
@@agilemind6241 Yep. And, two (two and a half?) responses to that: First; that’s... kinda the point. It is strong, but barely different than a similar encounter with Zealot. The math adds up to being some less, but with no Exhaustion, and for the duration of every Rage (as stated, Frenzy is a choice to activate, functioning as two “Rage modes”). Cost-to-benefit, with Exhaustion being such a punishing mechanic anywhere past first tier... yeah. That’s ok. Second; well, that’s kind of the DMs problem. And I say this as someone who DMs more than plays. In most cases, a table isn’t using a preset adventure, where this could admittedly be more noticeable. For the most part, the encounters are built with the party in mind. If the Barb can (with crits, with all hits, with Frenzy, with Greatsword *more on that bit later*) drop a boss in a couple rounds... change the encounter. Add in a couple more meaty targets like ogres, choose a boss with higher AC (to counteract the effectiveness of Sharpshooter/Great Weapon Master), make sure AoEs are involved to chip away at HP pools, pick a boss that FLIES (best option in my opinion, I find it hilarious). In short, powergamers gonna powergame. If this is your group... you know that. And, you build accordingly. Third (mostly just me being a stats/math neeeerd); my friend, WHY does your Barb have a Greatsword/Maul in this math?? Sure, it averages *slightly* better because damage minimums are higher, and two dice ensures mid-value rolls are massively more common that highs or lows, but any munchkin worth their salt knows you go Greataxe, go Half Orc, never look back. Since both Savage Attacks and Brutal Critical (9th Level, I know, but people tend to stick with early choices like preferred weapons) only add a single weapon dice on top of crits, and crits are assumed in your math, it’s muuuch more fun to crit for 3d12 than 5d6. And, the math just gets funnier with full Brutal Critical+Savage Attacks, capping out at 6d12 (42 average) vs 8d6 (32 average). The Greatsword/Maul is great for Fighters, but the Greataxe was made for Barbs, heheh. PS; also, either you’re assuming the Barb has 16 Str, or you’re not including Rage Damage in your calcs. Also, not including extra damage dice from crits. Small note, that’s all
Personally I just have my Berserkers make a Con save after using frenzy with a DC equal to half the last round of damage they did, or 10 (whichever is higher), meaning they can choose to slowly cool down from the frenzy by doing only one attack to lower the dc, or risk a point of exhaustion. It's not the most balanced thing but my players enjoy it, and I haven't seen it break my game quite yet.
Maybe you could get a set number of frenzied rounds, maybe scale them with the barbarian's level, and every round after that you roll a steadily increasing CON save like with the Relentless Rage feature.
Prone to abuse when the barbarian makes sure to end his rage by making an unarmed strike, minimizing his damage. Instead, make a Con saving throw at the end of the rage with a DC equal to 10+'N', where "n" equals the number of rounds spent in a frenzy since you last completed a long rest. This makes it more difficult the longer and more frequently you rage, more likely to be "exhausting." While also making it so you can use Frenzy more than once in a day. Risk vs Reward and it become even more risky at higher levels when you can use it more often. That makes the difficulty between 11 and 30, depending on if you use frenzy on both rages in a day, so it can become a guaranteed exhaustion if you use it non-stop, but if used in short bursts you can avoid the cost. Barbarians being proficient with Con saves helps with this even more. I realize this is supposed to be the simplest of the barbarian sub classes, so we can make an easy mode where the DC is 10+an additional +2 for each rage you've used since your last long rest. a level 1 barbarian could use frenzy every fight, making 2 con saves; DC 12 and DC 14. a level 3 has to make an additional DC 16 when he uses a 3rd frenzy. Rages cap out at 6 uses by level 17, with a final DC of 22, which is not as hard as it looks for a level 17 barbarian with a +11 to their Con save, not counting magic items. on the flip side, 6 frenzies in one day could potentially kill the barbarian, which sounds realistic, but the chances of failing all 6 saves, is impossible, because the first one is DC 12 and the barbarian has that +11 mod to the save.
@@coryalfaro9376 I mean having the barbarian choose to do as little damage as possible on their last attack before dropping rage is kinda the point, though I probably should have specified weapon damage. In theory it's them purposefully slowing down so they can cool off. It's supposed to be so they choose to only take one attack instead of taking multi attack on their last round of rage but I forgot to put in their I wouldn't count fist damage. Then again I dont have players that really min-max that often so I have yet to have an issue. So I guess what you're proposing would be better for more experienced players seeking to drip as much value from their build as possible.
Aye, the Berserker Barbarian was an amazing concept...that shot itself in the foot. Shame, too...the later abilities like being immune to "Charm" or "Fear", and attacking on a Reaction, really stacks the damage in the Berserker's favor...if only they had eliminated that damn exhaustion. I'd propose a fix...if the Berserker uses their "Frenzy" to attack, they have to roll a die to determine if they strike their target, if another target is within melee striking distance. This could be a coin flip, or a die roll. If they fail, they strike another target within melee distance...and this could be an ally. Now, 1 vs. 1...this is no problem: The Berserker just strikes that one opponent again. If the Berserker is dealing with more than one enemy...again, no real problem: They're sharing that damage with the enemy. But if an ally is within range...well, that's your major drawback. This is easily avoided by getting the hell away from the Berserker when they're raging...and it truly defines the subclass: That THIS is that barbarian you don't want to be near when they're angry.
How I changed Berserker: Frenzy now consumes 1 hit dice. Mindless Rage now just grants immunity to charmed and frightened, and doesn't suspend the effect - which makes way more sense than "Are you done being mad? Okay, you piss your pants in fear." Also, you gain bonus damage equal to your barbarian level against targets that try to frighten/charm you on your next attack. ("Puny god.") Intimidating Presence is now a bonus action. It now functions based on your strength and proficiency bonus (IE: You make an act of smashing the ground with all of your strength, causing dirt to fly in all directions. The enemy is terrified of your brute strength). For every 4 levels in barbarian past level 10, you can target 1 additional creature with this effect, up to a max of 3. Retaliation is fine where it is.
I just saved a man from the Berserker yesterday. My friend was running a campaign for me, his 2 sisters, and another friend of his. The other friend hadn't played much D&D and was choosing to be a Barbarian. Session was about to start and we all got into the D&D Beyond Campaign so that the DM's sister could use the homebrew Druid subclass I had made for her and I saw that the other friend was a Berserker Barbarian. Knowing what kind of guy my DM is I look at him and ask "You were just going to watch him die weren't you" and yeah he knew and did nothing about it but to be fair it was the only subclass that D&D Beyond gave him as an option since they don't have any of the books and no homebrew. Fortunately the DM did have a lot of the books and I had previously played a Wild Magic Barbarian so they were able to switch over to that while I was also playing a Barbarian with Path of the Storm Herald, the other subclass mentioned in this video that allows you to shoot lightning out of your chest. So yeah, close call but I managed to save the guy. Turns out they're a bit of a murder-hobo but they're very charismatic about it so they're not causing any problems and it usually turns out pretty funny since the DM has a good handle on all of the party members. Speaking of that though, there was also an NPC that we happened to meet before we set out on the ocean for our first mission called Gundarr that apparently the DM had given my homebrew Blood Hunter subclass called Order of the Blood Rune which was a real shock and made me both proud and terrified that they found a way to use it that I didn't even think of.
I have a Ranger using the revised revised Ranger from the class feature UA. At first level I took athletics expertise; at second took Unarmed Fighting fighting style giving damage on grapples which procs my, 3rd level hunters colossus slayer. 4th level I'll be taking charger feat if my DM allows me to grapple on its bonus action, 5th level's multi-attack and 6th I can cast enhance ability on myself (so I don't need to keep pestering the druid of the strength advantage roids). My DM was laughing at first but he seems to be at a loss for words after the first few encounters.
I had a Beast Master Barbarian, not trying for it but when I grappled my first creature, then knocked unconscious my second it was more like. "huh? Well okay then."
I see Zee has taken to LOUD SWEARING to keep those age ratings up Edit: Some've y'all are missing the point that Zee has been actively trying to avoid getting his content kids rated due to Coppa.
He should just open all his videos with the following disclaimer: "If you are under 18, fuck off immediately!" Done and done, not-for-kids status established in the first few seconds.
I think he was doing that as a gimmick to go with the 'berserk rage' the character he was talking through was experiencing. why would a Barbarian use large complicated words? Simple swears fit the raging barbarian theme better.
The thing is, the "early" 5e subclasses seem really underpowered in their mechanics and "grounded" in their themes. It's like they were made by a DM who doesn't like to see his players parading around like an anime or videogame character and be like a low magic common man like Game of Thrones kind of character instead. So they get penalties, underwhelming features and simple themes (which isn't bad, just really limiting). And because of that, there's always a better subclass. Like Bear totem for barbarians, a open hand for monks and etc. That's why i love the new UA subclasses, they overflow with flavor and aren't afraid of being a shining flippy magical badass motherfuckers.
I prefer the older weaker subclasses. I don't need these plane shifting rangers and clockwork sorcerers. Give me an axe and a loincloth and I'll have fun being weak
I'd just remove the exhaustion from frenzy and make it like a couple uses a day or something. I get frenzying is supposed to get you all tuckered out but meh. if you wanted it to still keep that flavor just say the exhaustion wears off 1 level every short rest or the player can expend 1 HD during a short rest to remove 1 level of exhaustion so their day isn't entirely ruined.
I appreciate Frenzy as a narrative feature, while i understand it's underpowered from a mechanical feature and inherently could get your character killed, narratively it really does fit that barbarian niche so well. My favourite class is a toss up but high on that list is the homebrew class Pugilist, which focuses *a lot* on trading short term, major advantages for long term negatives, including giving points of exhaustion, and perhaps these are bad in a mechanical environment but for a player that knows what they're doing *intentionally* making that sacrifice can help say a lot about the character you're playing, and what are their motivations and goals, and i think mechanically enforced story like that is really cool. So, in my personal opinion, the Frenzy barbarian fills the fundamental story beat of a barbarian incredibly well, and i feel more compelled to play a class that allows me to sacrifice in the heat of battle in a way that is very barbaric, over shooting lightning out of my chest a lot of the time, since if i wanted to do that there's tons of casters and off-casters i could pick. So i guess ultimately i agree with Zee here, new players should understand the consequence of that sacrifice before picking the subclass, i guess i just felt the need to clarify a counter point in favour of Frenzy given the rather aggressive stance Zee's taken in this video haha
Here's someone who gets it. Frenzy is so great for rp and has made for a lot of chracter development in my campaign. The exhaustion has never been a big deal since I as a player have full control over it, when to proc it or not. I don't need to frenzy every fight for the sake of dps and utilizing all of my fighting machanics in every encounter. I could but the frezy can loss dramatic effect if over done. Bouts of uncontrollable rage that leaves the user exhausted and negatively affects him adds so much to a character. When a fight gets too intense it shows how my character is losing control of himself as he frenzies. He himself can't do it, he must succumb to primal rage and bloodlust. Any encounter that deals with his motivations and the people who wronged him leads to a frenzy and the subsequent mental and physical exhaustion. It's like kio ken in dbz it's only as cool as it is because Goku pays a price for using it. He can't use kio ken every fight as it's too exhausting but he will pull it out for great narrative effect in a meaningful encounter. My character was a standard good guy dwarf that wanted a simple life with his family. He ran a profitable mining company and possessed great knowelge of the moutains and mines surrounding his home town. His life changes when a vampire lord turns his family into thralls and infects him with vampirism making him his spawn, a drone to due his bidding. The vampire lord recognized my characters primal strength and expert knowledge of the mountains and wanted to use him to find an acient relic hidden somewhere deep in the old caverns and abandoned mines. He wanted to have my dwarf as his son in his vampiric cult, each cult family member posessing an expert skill he can use for his own gain. Bouts of rage were the only way for my character to gain some control over his mind. This escalates into frenzied rages during which my character losses himself to pure rage and hatred changing him as a person and leaving him battered and exhausted. My alignment is gradually becoming chaotic and then I want to push it to evil the more he loses himself to rage and revenge as he sees his life's work and his family crumbles and distorts around him. His arc is to try to hunt down all the vampires cult family members, avenge his family, and eventually usurp the vampire lord who forever changed his life no matter the cost, the ends justify the means type mentality. Having frenzy rage adds alot to his character as it makes for a weighted emtional story beat with consequences that last far longer than the benefits. Its great for a charcter that is unhinged and not meticulously min maxing every decision. My chracter isn't insanly analytical he's insane and will sacrifice his body in the long term to deal with what's in front of him. I want my character's mechanics and stats to reflect their personality. It's honestly one of the funest characters I've played and the standard 5e frezy and exhaustion mechanics have supported it well.
one of the problems with 5e is that they overvalued exhaustion, like the spells and magic to get rid of exhaustion are way to powerful... its honestly insane . Exhaustion is not hard to accumulate but its hard as hell to get rid of... you shouldnt need greater restoration... fucking 100 gold and a 5th level spell slot. Fuck that, lesser restoration and a 25 GP cup of coffee should be able to handle Exhaustion for how Exhaustions works. Also barbarian doesnt have nearly enough non-magical subclasses, that needs to be rectified... it sucks for people who dont want to play a magical character.
I had this problem with my bardbarian. It was a modern DnD setting and her barbarian side comes from her student loans and people telling her she went into the wrong college of study. Berserker is the only one of the classes that don't rage because of some spiritual or magical connection.
You're not wrong about a lack of non-magic barbarians, but a lot of what exists has mostly thematic magic. Several Totem options can be imagined as non-magical: Eagle at 3rd, Tiger and Wolf at 6th and Elk, Tiger and Wolf at 10th.
I’m working on an entire book of homebrew for the Barbarian and Fighter to make their non magical subclasses better or make new ones that are purely non magical.
It is quite easy to get rid of exhaustion, you get it by resting! You don't need to keep adventuring every single day. Sometimes, you can just say you're gonna rest for three days to get rid of three exhaustion points. It is no big deal. If you don't have access to a safe place to rest, then it is a point where it matters to feel exhausted
I honestly thought of going berserker when I first started playing, and then I noticed the exaustion effect on it. Ended up running into your video on exaustion, and was also listening to Dice Funk, the season where exaustion ended up being a very central mechanic for one of the characters. I was immedeately scared off of ever taking the Berserker tree. Honestly, why even include the exaustion penalty? Surely, if they thought the one extra attack was THAT strong, they could have added SOME other effect then one of the most powerful debuffs you can give a player character?
Whether you take that extra attack ten times or one, the cost is the same. That kind of feels dumb. I think the turn you declare you're using frenzy, not only does it work as written, but you also get one extra action, just like the fighter's action surge. I think that might tempt someone to take a level of exhaustion.
Retaliation would have been better at 3rd level instead and just give them the frenzy without exhaustion at level 14, and just make an overhaul on fixing the level feature
The math on it actuall suggests it's very strong to make 1 extra attack. Rules as written, most bonus action attacks are with light weapons when using two weapon fighting, and that doesn't allow you to add your ability modifier. Frenzy attacks add both your ability modifier to damage but also add your rage bonus. Also frenzy attacks benefit from reckless attacks meaning you can make all your attacks at advantage. At level 5 you make 2 standard and 1 bouns action attacks when attacking. As for the math. Rolling 3 attacks at advantage gives you about a 26.50% chance to land a critical hit. When making only two attacks your critical hit chance is only 18.55%. If you're allowed to multi class that gets even more insane. Frenzied Champion is a master of critical strikes (frenzied berzerker and champion fighter). Your critical hit range is 19 - 20, so on your first turn rage and make 2 attacks, second turn make 2 attacks, action surge make 2 more, bonus action make 1 more, for a total of 7 attacks in 2 turns. The chance you land at least one critical hit in those first two turns is 77.12%, this can obviously vary depending on luck and really only applies to characters who are level 10 or higher.
@@joemama114 yeah but the exhaustion so you are useless the rest of the day and you can't even use that extra attack until your next turn and you could end up justing getting 1 or 2 bonus action attacks or none as the fight could end early when you already decided to frenzy as you have to decide when you go into rage
"Most players don't play barbarian, they're too simple." Me, a barbarian main currently playing a Wild Soul BONK: You're talking a lot of smack for someone in rage distance.
@@videogollumer When build to maximum lift, up to 4000pounds. Whilst not beeing unincumberd. If you go for absolut max lift, when you can only move 5 feet, you can lift 10 times the amount. Update: Take 3 levels in Oath of Glory Paladin for the Channel Divinity-> Peerless Athlet, which dubbles your lifting capacity again and gives you advantage for athletiks and acrobatics checks. So 4000 punds x 2 x 10 = 80000 pounds.
How about a homebrew tweak: Frenzy - Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage when you use your action to make a weapon attack, you can make additional attacks equal to half your proficiency modifier rounded down (minimum 1). [no BA cost, just additional attacks as part of the frenzy, and depending on how broken you feel this is compared to other barbarian subclasses because of the massive downfall of gaining exhaustion everytime you frenzied rage] an additional tweak: When your rage ends, roll a Constitution Saving throw (DC: 10 + the number of rounds of Frenzied Rage), on a failed save, you suffer one level of exhaustion. [This can bring a new level of high risk, high reward to extended Frenzied Raging especially once you reach level 15 and higher and your rage only ends if you go unconscious or choose to end it, the whole while you're going to have to keep track of how many rounds you've been frenzied and have to choose whether to end it early to avoid a higher save DC, hope for a really high roll, or be prepared to soak the exhaustion because you can't afford to loose the "action economy" game]
That still makes it bad, because it's supposed to be a core subclass feature. As Zee says in the video, other Barb subclasses have stuff at the same level that are always useful. Storm Heralds shoot lightning out of their chest, as mentioned. Bear Totems take half damage from just about every source. Zealots deal extra damage on their first attack every round, without having to take a level of exhaustion to turn that ability on. Etc. Every other subclass has something that's *always* good at that level. Getting a situational ability instead makes it the *objectively worse* option. Don't play a berserker. They're bad.
I masterfully multiclassed to barbarian for one single reason: Adding CON to my sorcerer's AC. Turns out I now have advantage on picking up rocks! So I no longer fear strength checks!
I agree, I would limit a person's frenzy based on their con modifier, the healthier your body is, the more additional attacks you can make within that short period of time. And you can get your frenzy back every short or long rest, because it's a martial class, and frenzy is a main gimmick of this sub class, I wouldn't want to take away the only thing sub class has going for it. Or make it every long rest depending on your style/peference as a DM. Hell make frenzy strength mod base, its up to you. When it comes to the short coming of the official material, it is up to us, the Players/DM to make up for it. At the end of the day, we can adjust the material accordingly to make it more fair or more suited to whatever campaign/story you're playing. It doesn't always have to be 100% by official book rules, we can just adjust and adapt.
It's actually comical how much better bear totem barbarian is than every other subclass. Hmm, do I get a couple extra attacks that might cripple or kill me, or do I take DOUBLE HP AGAINST 98% OF ENEMIES IN THE GAME? Tough decision, honestly.
No joke, I was playing as a Bear Totem Barbarian, and my DM at the time would roll for magic items for everyone when it came to big story beat battles. He rolled that my barbarian found a ring of resistance. He rolled for the type. I don't think he realized that the ring I got (he said it was a "Jade Ring of Resistance") was the PSYCHIC resistance ring. mostly because I got the ring after the battle, and he was very confused when, after I asked to borrow his DMG to add the effects to my character, I started laughing like a madman. He was not pleased with himself, mostly because he's the type to not go back on his word.
Until you get to higher levels though. Play a level 20 zealot barbarian, even better if you're an elf with immunity to magical sleep. Infinite rages, and you literally can't die. As long as you have a basic health potion in your pocket to throw some HP back into yourself at the end of the combat, you're golden. Or, if you don't have any potions, just keep maintaining the rage until you can find a healer. Then you can throw some gold at their feet for a resurrection, die, and get back up again when they bring you back.
Bear is solid; but standard rage already grants resistance to slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing which IME is over half of all damage PCs are likely to take anyway.
or go tiger totem and get plus ten long jump and plus 3 high jump while raging at the same lvl. who's fucking idea was it to put this ability vs bear totems lvl three, its fucking baffling
yeah, most groups i've played with would either ignore this fact altogether or it was a story-heavy campaign and the fights were few and far between with plenty of time to "regroup at your base and pick this up in the morning" kind of things
Rage itself is just as complex as a monk's martial arts. There are layers of rules and restrictions on what you can do with it, like if you don't attack or take damage it stops. Take a variant human and add certain feats, or multiclass and try to combine features from other classes like sneak attack, and it can get super weird. You can sneak attack with a short sword while raging, which is just non-intuitive and weird.
technically rage prevents onlyspells, but there are things that arent spells in themselves, even if they use spellsots. 1 level of hexblade for hexblade curse to crit on a 19. Hell, Agathys temp hp lasts longer if you are raging, its not concentration, use before fight, more reflect. You can smite while raging, once again not a spell. If you fish for crits, great weapon master gives you a BA attack. Or depends how "much" of a barbarian you want to be. Barb2/battlemaster lot for all the maneuvers on crits
So to knowledge there are 2 other sorts of effects that cause exhaustion to the user: the spell tenser’s transformation and the chronurgy wizard feature convergent future. Tensers transformation does a bunch of things but basically turns its caster into a martial class for the spell’s duration (concentration, up to 10 minutes), and at the end they must make a con save or gain 1 level of exhaustion. As for convergent futures you, i kid you not, can use your reaction to change an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw into a success or a failure at the cost of 1 level of exhaustion. Tbf these are more late game abilities (compared to frenzy at 3rd level tenser’s transformation is a 6th level spell, and convergent futures is a 14th level wizard ability), but it goes to show just how much more powerful other effects that give you exhaustion can be, which makes frenzy seem just much more weaker in comparison
This is why I did away with the exhaustion drawback for Frenzy at my table. It just isn't fair. Underpowered compared to all other subclasses of Barbarian and all other classes in general. Free extra swing when raging as a bonus action. There. Done.
If I ever have someone play berserker in my own game, I'd houserule that either the exhaustion only comes with every other use of frenzy, or just limit frenzy to x-times-per-long-rest. Exhaustion for an extra attack in a combat is just too heavy-handed. Here's hoping that the new sourcebook tweaks that a bit
We homebrew at my table that coming off of Frenzy gives you the same penalty as coming off Haste where a wave of lethargy comes over you preventing you from moving or taking actions. It’s still a big deal to come out of Frenzy, but it’s not as debilitating as it currently exists.
Isn’t the number of times you can frenzy per long rest already limited as you can only frenzy when you rage and the number of times you can rage per long rest is limited until you reach level 20?
I like the Haste idea. My thought would be to allow a number of bonus action attacks equal to your CON mod per Rage before gaining exhaustion. So you'd get X for free by building up CON, but using any more gains you a level of exhaustion. Tangentially related (if you're using UA) - make a Berserker Ranger multiclass and take the new Ranger option that lets you get rid of exhaustion on short rests.
Not gonna lie, when I started 5e DnD, I looked at the barbarian, and that exact skill was what made me drop that whole class and go play monk instead. I didn't know what exaustion did mechanically but I just knew it was bad for some reason.
probably because no other ability talked about it aside from the mother fucking radiation field spell that's explicitly trying to kill your enemies with Chernobyl! Probably set off a fair few red flags in your brain saying "wait this is a keyword condition that isn't explained in the ability text AND literally no other feature in the player build chapters (where most players spend their time in the book) EVER mention this incredibly tiresome-sounding condition.
To be honest, I've been trying out the Berserk in my latest game, even knowing the bad reputations, and I found some interesting, not immediately apparent, synergies: the bonus action attack is worded in such a way that it's indipendent from anything, you can just attack with a bonus action; so, for example, you can use your action ti Dodge or Dash and still bonus action attack, you can free yourself from a grapple or a trap and still Attack once, and, with the level 10 ability to frighten an enemy, you can use your action to keep them scared and away from the rest of the party and still attack someone else!
I'm running a game of newbies and one of them wanted to go for the Berserker Barbarian. I told him about the Exhaustion aspect and he still wanted to do it, so I actually started making adjustments to the Berserker Barbarian so that it's less player hostile. Basically as it stands, I make it so that when they enter a rage, they can choose to go into a Frenzied rage with no additional action, which allows them to make a second regular attack as if they had the Extra Attack feature. I did keep the exhaustion aspect, however I made it so that at the end of the rage they have to make a save, with the DC being 8 and increasing by one for each time they make that extra attack while frenzied. That's what we've stuck with so far and there have been no issues with exhaustion because the Barbarian rolled super well for Con.
Perhaps a simple way to improve Frenzy: First time use each day is free whereas all subsequent Fenzies add a point of exhaustion; resets after a long rest?
But... what about the ability to shoot lightning from your chest? The question is can I use that multiple times a day to outpace Frenzy? Dungeons are long multiple encounters... which is to say that if you do anything complex you still lose out. You'd have to restrict it to once per battle with a 5-minute break between battles to avoid getting exhaustion.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 ok, but the whole lightning blast thing is like 1d6 extra damage per turn vs a saving throw, whereas frenzy gives you potentially 1d12+str+rage bonus+feat modifiers that can have advantage on the attack roll. It's a pretty big difference and you can't really compare the two, the former is more just like a nice little bonus to have on top of what you already get. It's a sacrifice of quantity for quality. Not saying that as is the berserker's penalties are justified, but the OP's fix is fine imo. Rage is already honestly good enough to carry most barbarians through fights by itself, frenzy would just be there for your "shit gets real" button. Except now you could still be able to potentially use it a second time if you REALLY needed to without completely screwing yourself for an entire day of combat.
@@ihave2cows yeah even WITH an exhaustion, frenzy is simply way more powerful. You wont need that 2dmg per round while fighting goblins. But that extra d12+5 damage when fighting the dragon will add up FAST. Its sort of like the difference between a firebolt and Meteor Swarm. Yes you can only use 1 meteor swarm. But it will do much more than any firebolt can do.
Since we're talking about Exhaustion here, the DMG has rules on chase sequences that use a modified version of Exhaustion on pages 252-255. Basically, a chase allows a participant to freely use the Dash action on their turn up to 3 times plus their ConMod before having to roll a DC 10 Con save; failing that, they gain a level of Exhaustion. The main difference is, you can't run yourself to death in a chase; a participant drops out if they hit level 5 (when their speed is reduced to 0,) and more importantly, all levels of chase-induced Exhaustion go away at once after a short or long rest. To keep things interesting, chase sequences in the DMG also have a series of random events you roll for at the end of your turn that affects whoever's next in the initiative order. Honestly, I suspect that's what Zee used with the Goblins in Waterdeep that stole a Deck of Many Things. It's a really fun mechanic if you haven't tried it yet; A Wild Sheep Chase by Winghorn Press is a good adventure to use it.
All I'm saying is these two things: - At level 15 your frenzy rage doesn't ever have to end before a long rest, which means you can immediately remove the exhaustion - Berserker is the only subclass whose bonus action damage thing benefits from the Dueling fighting style, which, thanks to Fighting Initiate, is able to be obtained early on without multiclassing and is BUSTED on a barbarian. I mean, it may not look like much on paper but it really begins to add up on high HP targets. That being said, I've always had it be a homebrew rule that instead of incurring exhaustion, there's always some other side effect, like incurring extra damage, or instead limiting how much it can be used to, say, half your proficiency bonus, rounded up. That way, you can benefit from this extra thing without suffering undue consequences.
I don’t know not a bad start but I would say just be able to do it no long rest or exhaustion seeing as how they’re rages are limited anyway and they can still use it smartly with out it being only a one off or having negative effects and I think it would still be balanced especially when looking at the other barbarian subclasses
That is the one I love the most because it keeps the drawback that has flavor without ruining Exaustion, wich is a mechanic I love because players allways go "oh shit it deals exaustion. Another way of thinking could be that levels of Exaustion gained through this feature are all lost at once with a single Long rest, or maybe even are reduced by short rest.
Make frenzy just be the de facto rage for beserker and if they run out of rage charges you can do additional rage at the cost of exhaustion. Also lvl 14 retaliation should cost no reaction, but only work during a frenzy- just my 2 cents.
easiest house rule: get rid of Exhaustion. Instead, when their rage ends, the Berserker is "incapacitated" for as many rounds as they were in rage for. Incapacitated states that the character cannot take actions of reactions. They can still move....or have them roll for a random condition. Anything but exhaustion, it's a big detriment.
@@panwall1327 Rolling for a random effect sounds pretty neat actually. Like Wild magic. Ranging from simply passing out and keeling over to going EXTRA berserk, losing control and attacking both friend and foe for a round or two in a blind rage. That'd be a pretty neat replacement for exhaustion.
My houserules around Berserker which, in my opinion doesn't do enough to save the class but at least it provides more incentive to take it: Frenzy straight up replaces each attack with 2 attacks. Straight up. No questions asked. Just make 2 attacks in place of the 1. Works with Two Weapon Fighting, allowing 2 attacks with the bonus action. Works with Polearm Master, allowing 2 1d4 attacks with the bonus action. Works with of speed, allowing 2 attacks with the bonus action. Works with haste (if you're feeling ballsy enough to go double exhaustion.), allowing 2 attacks with the extra action. Works with extra attack (immediately jump to 4 attacks per round at level 5.) Conceivably at Level 5, a player could have 8 attacks per round. Still no player in the past few years have thought it's enough of an incentive to take the class. (If they had taken it, I would have enemies around mid-late campaign, once these adventurers are a known quantity, come prepared with ways to drop the Barbarian out of rage, adding on the exhaustion penalty immediately. But alas, this plan has never had a chance to be used.)
So these are the main changes I made to the class. Berserker subclass is a powerhouse when in frenzy but they are frenzied so they struggle to control themselves; -They get to use the attack action(yes the whole action) the bonus action attacks are at disadvantage -If they are damaged they need to make make wisdome DC 8+ 1/2 melee damage, 10 +1/2 ranged damage received or will have to make there way over to the target and attack them when able to including dashing if they can't reach they won't preform actions that would kill them for example they aren't forced to jump over pits or anything they can just run around. -they can't take any action other than attacking (they can do grappling, pushing and things like that) or moving unless persuaded to by a friend conteseted persuasion. -they cannot end rage early unless there is no one to attack if they do they receive exhaustion for 1 hour. Most of the other features are designed to turn the negatives into positives as you level up like when someone attacks you and you are forced to attack them you can do so immediately useing your reaction to hit then once or freely move 1/2 your movement towards them as well as power attacks that cost 2 attacks but do more damage in a aoe. I have played in a campaign with this but they weren't a new player so I don't know how much harder it would be to pick it up for new players.
Thanks for the levity, I needed it. FYI folks, the berzerker gets mindless rage. Mindless rage does not technically dispell spells but if your character is charmed/feared it removes the effects while raged. Unless the monster ability or spells gives the caster complete control or completely pacifies hostility, then your barbarian will get to rage and will ignore charm/fear for the duration. So, that's at 6th level. At 10th, intimidating presence pretty much gives you something akin to dragon fear but not your character character but against one enemy at a time and you can use it on indefinite enemies (but one at a time though). Then, at 14th, with retaliation, your barbarian gets to smack anyone who damages it within 5 feet (only one enemy per turn though since it uses the reaction). Key words "take damage" though, so it could be anything, not just a melee attack. In fact, the barbarian was so bad ass, they had to make bear totem barbarian and berserker different subclasses since combined it would be an invincible beast. Frenzy is only bad when compared to what the barbarian gets later on in berzerker. But, like the guy said, in a vacuum it isn't bad (it isn't great either but still not bad). Overall, Berserker Barbarians are not trash, just Frenzy is (sometimes, sometimes not) but really even Frenzy has its uses. Overall, Berserker is one of the strongest subclasses in the game. And, while not the strongest or best, it definitely isn't near the bottom of list.
Pointlessly late homebrew tweak to fix the perceived problem: you have a special lethargy status after frenzy ends. You must not move or act for a turn (or two?) or, should you do so anyway, you then take the level of exhaustion. I feel like part of the design is to balance the feature's power. If you frenzy immediately entering a fight to, ideally, fell the easy pickings and lessen the number of actions the enemy force has, then you must face the stronger forces at reduced power. If, however, you are in a desperate situation and you basically want a lifeline to call upon rather than just dying, you can try frenzy as the coup-de-grace. If frenzy ends the battle in your favor, then the resting your party would probably have needed to do anyway in that situation is super moot. We can play, "but the opportunity cost is something I can use all the time" all day. Unless you can persuade me that the benefit gained from frenzy is too weak to warrant the balance of an imposed trade-off, then I am going to accept the frenzy's design is valid and it's not intended to be used all the time due to how OP that would be.
AND ANOTHER THING 'Berserker' roughly translates to 'bear shirt' and referred to warriors wearing bear skins in battle, so it would make way more sense for a Bear Totem Barbarian to call themselves a Berserker than an 'extra angry' one.
Aye but if we were to with true etymology in DND warlocks should be devil monsters, wizards should have Wis as a key stat, and monks shouldn't run in groups!
I actually had ideas for making this subclass so much more bearable, fitting its theme really well while still playing around the idea of exhaustion. - After a long rest, you recover from ALL levels of exhaustion induced by Frenzy specifically. While you rage, you ignore the effects of Exhaustion. - When you use your Bonus Action to Frenzy, you can make an attack as a part of that same Bonus Action. - At level 6, the same level you get Mindless Rage, you can now remove levels of exhaustion while short resting by expending Hit Dice. -At Level 10, when you get Intimidating Presence, you also get the ability to make two attacks using your bonus action now.
Fix is Frenzy gives exhaustion that is gotten rid of on a short rest per level, completely on a long rest are all levels gotten rid of. There is I think a term for Viking Beserkers in the Sagas for when they go into the state of weakness. Realistically, i cannot remember what happens after Haste wears off, but something similar to just dropping totally weak for a while might be more realistic, a short rest or so many rounds. But as is, would just make it so the state is exhaustion mechanically, then describe it as 'tiredness' or whatever they called aftereffects for Beserkers in the Sagas I will look up and add here. Then that status is on short rests per level, and long rests for all levels, and treat it as a seperate, though perhaps compounding exhaustion, worth getting rid of before you get true exhaustion. Also simply dropping a character and making death saves on level 6, but not being able to die is an alternate rule too you could try. Death saves determine if you need a short rest automatically on too many fails, or can get back up in the fight at some point. Or just let them die, since it does sound cool if a character in front of their enemy just died of exhaustion after defeating the final nemesis and sacrificing themselves...if they could run before that though too...not sure i like D&D exhaustion set up as too much and too little and yes...too underused to be done or designed well by wotc... Great video, makes me keep coming back at the problem and love the character you made. Poor Croc-Wizard...
Simple but not as simple as "get madder". Each class has an archetype that is meant to be simply base+ while others add new flavor to the character. Totem is seen as the base+ barbarian in the eyes of many, but only because we simply ignore berserker because of its major flaw. Berserker is meant to be that, but the exhaustion mechanic makes it fundamentally worthless.
@@prof.loophole9708 I'd argue that Berserk isn't "simple" for two reasons: -All the starting Totem abilities are fairly simple and they are always on when you are raging. Berserker having a modal rage is trickier. -Berserk using the Exhausting mechanic add a fair amount of mechanical complexity to the class. Exhaustion is a very rarely seen mechanic and nothing else in the game escalates like it does. It isn't like getting Poisoned twice makes you look up a chart with extra effects.
@@GreatgoatonFire I think you are conflating simplicity with execution. Totem Barbarian ability has more options, and more to explain. Once you comprehend it, its easy to see the simple to play options, but they are still choices a player must make. Berserker you simply gain a feature with a straight forward process despite it being bad. The fact the Berserker ability is useless doesn't make it more complicated, just not worth playing. Adding a bit of my own view on the development of the game I think the Berserker was written before Exhaustion was finalized. Exhaustion has always been a thing and 5e made it very different than pervious versions
@@prof.loophole9708 Look, agree to disagree? imho the added complexity of straight forward suboptions are minor compared to the extra "toggle" of having two levels of rage. I've seen new player forget about their Rage for whole dungeons, adding "levels of raging" to att is going to make that worse.
Totem barbarian does have other options, though. Wolf could be useful if you're partying with other meatstick classes like Fighter and Paladin and Eagle gives you a lot of mobility. Their level 10 ability gives them spells.
Easy fixes to make Berserkers a viable class. Frenzy: Remove the exhaustion completely and allow the bonus attack to be done on the turn frenzy is activated. Intimidating Presence: Use Strength instead of Charisma to determine the DC of the frighten effect. Retaliation: Have it not use a reaction. Essentially; every time the berserker gets attacked/takes damage, if the enemy is within 5 feet, he gets a retaliating strike.
**Possible Homebrew Fix:** **Option 1:** Frenzy has a CHANCE to cause exhaustion. After finishing a frenzied rage, the barbarian must make a Constitution Saving throw of a DC equal to 12, with the DC increasing by 1 every time you use a frenzied rage before taking a long rest. After taking a long rest, the DC resets to 12 again. Optional: You could modify the 17th level class feature to also give advantage on these con saves, with rolling a natural 20 on the save making you immune from having to make the check until your next long rest. **Option 2:** Just change how exhaustion is cured. Cures 1 level on a short rest, long rest cures it all. That's how I might suggest to my table for modifying it.
Even with its flaws, I quite like Berserker. I know frenzy isn’t the most efficient thing, but it is pretty damn satisfying to have three d12+13 attacks as early as level 5. Having said that, I have house rules at my table that ultimately buff berserker. Since I give my players exhaustion when they hit 0 hit points, I get rid of all exhaustion on a long rest, which makes berserker stronger as a side effect
TBH, that would be how I would homerule the Berserker Barbarian. Give it the ability to lose all levels of exhaustion during a long rest, and once per long rest the ability to lose a single level during a short rest. You could even make that part of a later level's class feature if that's too powerful to have at lv3
i agree with KIN, have you ever seen a frenzy berserker with great weapon mastery? 3d12+30+(3* strength mod) each turn instead of 2d12+20+(2*str mod) Lowest additional damage on hit with a bonus action attack is 11+strmod, highest is 22+str mod. Don't even get me started on half orc berserkers or ones that dip into 3rd level fighter champion to have a 1/10 chance with advantage of a crit instead of a 1/20 with advantage.
@@piemaniac9410 Good rule, I would of done it based on constitution modifier, you can do it up to your constitution modifier but anymore and you start taking levels of exhaustion (how I imagine DND would do it had they not chosen to make it so absolutely terrible) of course on the other hand rage already has limited uses so, why even do that, just make it so you can do it while you rage period.
anyone else take the great weapon master feat for the +10 damage or the bonus action attack if you kill your target/crit? its basically another way to be a berserker. either Variant human for the feat immediately (which is quite useful early on) or you take it at level 4 and suddenly wiping the floor with whatever you manage to hit (with the -5 to hit when using the +10 damage) I like it cause it feels like I am a raged barbarian throwing people aside and crushing those who get in my way, outside of bosses what reasonable thing that a DM would throw at a Lvl 1 party can withstand a minimum of 14 damage attack? then you get a second cause odds are you killed the first target so you get that bonus action and do it again, the only real downside is the low chance to hit since you are taking that -5 to hit and early on that will make it a +0 if you used the point buy system and put the points where they belong. (16 str 16 con)
I've been having a lot of fun with Berserker, and in practice the exhaustion hasn't been crippling me. You have to go in with the mindset you're using frenzy rage once a day, or in super rare cases twice a day, ideally in the last fight before a long rest if you can anticipate that sorta thing. Also highly recommend to find ways to make your regular rage vs frenzy rage feel really different, they are basically your shonen anime transformations! Admittedly our setting has been pretty generous with rests, we've not had a lot of encounters that require back to back to back combats, so your mileage can vary per campaign. Edit: DMs, as an alternate homebrew, consider letting your berserker barbarians upgrade their rage to a frenzy rage as a free action at any point during the rage, not just when they first activate it. Doesnt change much balance wise but it can improve enjoyability a ton
Yeah but it is kind of gimping is the problem, the fact you get only one extra attack for exhaustion levels is dumb compared to I rage so hard I start flying, I rage so hard I can fire elements from my body, I rage so hard I become immune to the concept of death you know?
@@PokeBattlerJaze Narratively those seem more high fantasy, but mechanically they're a lot weaker than an extra attack from a greataxe. You could reflavor the frenzy rage as some sorta magical transformation too if you'd like. As for the gimping, one level of exhaustion is just disadvantage on skill checks (grappling really). As long as you get a good feel for how your DM paces the game, and try to save it for one of the later more intense fights, then it you should not really be suffering from the exhaustion in any meaningful way.
@@NER124 If he is comparing it to the Storm Herald which I think he is, it is lower then the damage of a greataxe until you hit level 10 to which it is then comparable and only gets higher as you continue to level. Yeah, most DMs are gonna say "Yeah, ignore the exhaustion because it is stupid." but every once in a while you are gonna have the rule stickler one who allows no homebrew or creativity and you are locked to being punished hardcore, level one is fine, but beyond that, it just gets crippling for again, an extra attack.
Exhaustion has never been a meaningful issue in my play experience. Though I can see it being difficult to navigate in a hardcore dungeon crawl setting with back to back tough fights. I usually end up just frenzy one per in game day.
My third (and favorite) character is a gnome Berserker Barbarian named Yaargh. I absolutely love him and abuse the sh*t out of Frenzy and typically have 1-3 levels of exhaustion on any given day, so much so that it's a running joke when any other character gets even a first level of exhaustion Yaargh will comfort them like a wisened exhaustion vet. I also make the exhaustion play to my favor, by just having him pretty much suck at everything. He's well intentioned and actually pretty smart for a barbarian but he's so tired all the time he ends up goofing up and causing a mess, that and it also explains why he goes into a rage so easily, he's TIRED and CRANKY! This is balanced by the rest of the party shepherding him around various non-combat interactions only for them to let him loose when it comes time to smash something (he's also the party's tank so even when he's not doing a lot of damage he's doing a lot of help). That and spamming the crap out of guidance from our cleric makes him my favorite partially broken character I've ever had to this day.
A homebrew fix I gave to frenzy is, instead of gaining a level of exhaustion, you can't move or take actions for one round once your frenzy ends, similar to the effects of the haste spell.
There are more then a few things in 5e that seem to have what feels like a similar problem, it feels like DnD ported to a simpler system rather then its own edition of DnD, with things like Rage and Beastmaster not translating well
pathfinder is so, so, so infinitely better than 5e. 5e is so overly simplified you can't do anythign interesting without a DM willing to homebrew half the rules. as a DM i have other shit i gotta do with my time, sure i could focus my entire week between sessions on fixing 5e but i got bills and D&D ain't paying them.
@@comyuse9103 I played a long campaign of Pathfinder, and while really fun, it's got it's share of problems. Am enjoying running Pathfinder 2e though, feels life a more refined version a 5e-style game without the glaring power discrepancy issues of 1st edition pathfinder
Yeah, even some veteran d&d players still see it as the best option cause action economy, but it’s not. The zealot deals more damage, ancestral provides spooky times shenanigans, totem is a proper tank barbarian, and the nature boy is a walking aoe damage zone that can be perma amphibious if he goes storm.
CallMeThey Are you using normal weapons and are you adding in the extra damage it deals out with it’s “smite”. Cause from personal experience, the berserker does less and is overall worse than the zealot.
@@thejestor9378 This is an ideal world where every attack hits and they have max STR and are lvl 20 and are using the exact same weapon. Yes, their "smite" is included. Berzerkers out damage them at all levels, but the higher level you get, the gap closes significantly. So, by end game, the difference is super small and doesn't matter.
Originally, I decided to improve the Berserker simply by allowing them to recover an exhaustion on a short rest. I still hold by that, but found that only prevented the Berserker from being trash, it didn't really make it FUN, or at least not fun enough to offset how you're inevitably risking death simply by using your core subclass ability. To that end, I completely overhauled the berserker with these changes: At 3rd level, Berserker's Frenzy negates exhaustion penalties for the duration of the Frenzy (regular rage does not) and can be started any time while raging, no action required. The bonus attack from Frenzy gains extra effects the more exhausted the Berserker is when you start your Frenzy(temporary included) These bonuses only apply to the bonus action attack, which can be taken any order during Berserker's turn while frenzying. Effects are cumulative and stack with other sources; 0) Default Strike - Attack as Bonus Action 1) Crippling Strike - Target loses 10ft movement on hit, until end of Berserker's next turn 2) Forceful Strike - Target is shoved 10ft, or prone 3) Massive Strike - One Extra Damage Dice on hit 4) Critical Strike - Auto-crit on hit 5) Unstoppable Strike - Misses count as non-crit hits At 6th level, the Berserker gains Mindless Rage. In addition, while in a Frenzy, you can spend a use of Rage in order to reroll a failed Wisdom/Intelligence/Charisma saving throw. At 10th level, the Berserker gains Intimidating Presence, but you may use Constitution instead of Charisma to determine your save DC. In addition, you may apply this affect to any creature you hit with a melee attack while in a Frenzy. Using an action to extend the effect while in a Frenzy will apply to all creatures in range that are frightened of you. At 14th level, the Berserker gains Retaliatory Strike. In addition, any melee reaction attack you make while in a Frenzy carries the same bonuses as Frenzy's bonus action attack. Probably wont be seen on the 3000th+ comment on a 2 year old video, but the video popped up on my feed and I realized how much I had changed since I last commented on this video, which specifically was the prompt for me to make these improvements. Now instead of just gettign rid of the most obvious source of sucking, you're getting a bonus action attack you can gamble with, possibly even prompting you to deliberately take and carry higher levels of exhaustion for the sake of greater power. Anyone who loves high risk=high reward strategies, or even the self-sacrificing narrative should love to play with these mechanics. The higher level abilities are also tweaked to make them actually worth using (intimidating presence had been pretty awful before) but now that the Frenzy attack is powered up, it can actually be worth using the action for other things and relying only on the bonus action attack for a Berserker's damage source. I'm not 100% certain about how the build interacts with Multiclass. With frenzy able to supply such huge benefits as early as level 3, you may want to tie the maximum Frenzy benefit to 1/3rd the Barbarian level, starting out with Crippling Strike at level 3, getting Forceful Strike at level 6, Massive Strike at level 9, Critical Strike at level 12, and Unstoppable Strike at level 15. It might also be better to switch Unstoppable Strike with Critical Strike. I can't say for certain which one is the bigger game changer. I hear a lot of people prefer OneD&D's 10 count exhaustion system (which I personally detest) but if you are using that system, access to each bonus should require TWO additional exhaustion penalties, and the ability to recover an exhaustion on a short rest should be allowed no more than twice per long rest.
It should be said at level 5 with extra attack, you can make 3 weapon attacks per round, with your reckless attack feature they can all be at advantage. Like 3d12 + 3x your strength bonus +3x your rage bonus. Just based on math alone, you have a 26.49% chance to get at least one critical hit each round with that set up. Without that extra bonus action attack you only make 2 attacks and that results in only having a 18.55% chance to get one critical per turn. In simple methods, the likely hood that you get a critical hit in two turns is almost 50/50, slightly leaning in your favor. We're talking about the difference of nearly 8% more chance to critical each turn, that is cumulative and while dice are random, over time they tend to average out. Rolling an attack at advantage on average increases critical chance by about 4.75%
Time to take a level dip in Ranger, taking advantage of the alternate feature UA that lets you recover a level of exhaustion on a Short Rest Still....less than ideal, but functional now. Which with a single level dip, isn't a bad thing. May be funny though if the party goes to take a long rest and you're like "no, I want to take 3 Short Rests" and then do some wood carving or w/e until the party wakes up
I dunno, if it's a long-running campaign a single-level dip means you don't get that 20th level barb feature which is actually pretty crazy in my opinion
@@Dracas42 Eh...realistically though, how long are you expecting to be level 20 for though? Ive been level 20 twice so far. Once was for a couple sessions, and the other time was a gimmick campaign where everyone started at 20. Also while a +4 Str and Con is good, when multiclassing, you can do other synergistic options to compensate. Barb 6 / Rogue 13 / Ranger 1 - Reliable Talent and expertise skills more than compensate for anything Str offerred skills - 7d6 Sneak Attack should compensate for loss on Str in terms of damage This character is less durable than a "pure" barbarian at 20. But remains similar in damage output and beats it on skills by a longshot
With Tasha's having that alt feature more than likely, I think this is the easiest answer. Bar3/Rng1, so you only suffer through a single level of exhaustion at short rest. I'd probably forgo any rogue dips since Berserker wants to attack 3 times a turn and Rogue is a single hit DPR character. 3 Levels of Fighter would probably be stronger, pick up the Champion subclass and go Crit-fishing with 19-20 crits when you can swing for 5 attacks in one turn. So end up at something like Barb 6/Rng1/Ftr3 for a solid ten levels of a normal campaign. Anything past that is gravy.
@@infinitedm5396 I agree fighter champion is another great option for the build. Brute is another easy pick I still prefer Rogue since Sneak Attack is good with barbarian due to the mix of sneak attack and reckless attack guaranteeing you can use it. And adding in the bolstered skills helps add in utility a barbarian usually lacks I'm less fond of champion fighter than most, since its really just a 5% chance of gaining a 2d6 damage increase per hit. (Greatsword assumed) Unless you are getting a critical every turn specifically due to rolling a 19, 3 levels in rogue is superior due to its reliability. Adding 2d6 damage once per turn. There is certainly a build to capitalize further on champion, picking half-orc using a greataxe, and further levels in barbarian for brutal critical...assuming you get a magic weapon adding extra dice. And it doesnt need to use a finesse weapon and the use of great weapon master can help output when targeting low AC enemies - - But personally, i prefer the reliability of sneak attack damage and the skills and features rogue grants barbarian. Assassin can be good if you really like your ambushes, soulknife can double up on the skills utility and give you insane accuracy via Soul Blades
@@TheGaboom thats a fair point in regards to damage output. I just felt that action surge is a huge boon for burst damage on critical turns. Maybe go Battlemaster for reliable damage and control effects? Also that variant ranger lets you use hunters mark as well which is great since it doesnt require concentration or spell slots.
love your energy in this one!! maybe make this a series with some maybe homebrew ways or alternatives of getting around some of these other subpar sub classes and classes ie the beast master
My house rule as DM is berserkers just get their frenzy with no exhaustion, I also add that berserkers if they are out of rage for the day they can still rage but when the rage ends they gain exhaustion.
I mean, without SOME sort of draw-back, it would stand to become broken without anything penalizing the character for gaining a weapon attack as a bonus action. Just homebrew a different drawback, something much less punishing than a level of exhaustion.
@@sabreman8546 You mean like other Barbarians can just pick up Polearm Master, use a Glaive and basically keep up with Berserkers Damage output (With Zealots even surpassing them at lvl 6 I think) without gaining exhaustion?
@@Janders797 When another barbarian does that, the Berserker one could pick up GWM and go way beyond the other ones. Berserkers bonus action to attack is incredibly powerful when you also count in rage bonus, advantage through reckless and brutal criticals. Honestly I'd just give Frenzy a limit too, like once per short rest and be done with it.
I personally made Frenzy way more interesting. Basically I made Frenzy the Berserker's key ability. Introducing RAGE SPELLS. Basically these are actions which can only be activated while frenzy is active and it goes like this: Infuse your weapon with rage. Depending on the weapon you get a different effect and drawback. Example: GreatAxe - starting at LV5 you can roll 2d20 to deal a physical damage to a single creature within 20ft. You get 2 dice for each 5th LV. You can't use your action on your next turn. You can only use one rage spell per battle. Bypasses armor class
Maybe instead of granting you exhaustion, it cuts down the rage time you have left by a percentage, and the frenzy time lessens, the higher your barbarian level? Sort of going with the theme of burning twice as bright, but half as long.
True, yet I think they saw that rage ends up not ending at all later on which means that can apply to frenzy. So instead of having that berserker punching bolders at later levels for fun. They "balanced" it
@@ExeErdna Later on in the game at the same time that Barbarians get perpetual rages, spellcasters are getting Flesh to Stone, Conjure Fey, Planar Ally, so a Barbarian being able to attack on every bonus action (making it like a monk) should be the default assumption.
What you saying about my berserker barbarian? He has a fking bow, 2 fking shortswords and a fking axe. He can fking fight everyone while being inmune to mindcontrolling and resistant to magic thanks to him being a banjora elf. He is also friend with a ghost that is running his hunter/inn/bar and food place while he is out. (In the topic of the inn i have to advertice it so plzs dont skip th add) "Diasmas & Remglan Hunting bar: you hunt it, we cook it!" "Come here to drink away, gather a group and go hunting! We will provide weapons and if you bring here what you hunted we will make you a discount and offer you a dinner! If you bring a major beast you not only get a discount on the cooking of said beast. You also get points for the monthly 'best hunter reward' which can go from a night of free drinks to a paid hunting expedition. Bringing epic monsters count thowards the 'top hunter special price' where you can get a special weapon forged at your liking whith a special engraving + blessing' remember that this top hunter price is once a year!"
I feel like I'd think something I'd do to buff it would be too maybe add the idea of more attacks to a later level option with a new level 3 ability. Something like *Lvl 3: You can enter a berserker rage as a free action on your turn while enraged, removing your rage resistances and making your rage bonus damage increase by 1 (additional bonus at every level it goes up naturally) Lvl?: *Whenever you make an attack outside of your action in berserker rage you can make 1 additional attack. Some other options would be like fearing enemies within 5ft of you on dc8+prof+strmod immune for a hour on a success. I feel like this is not perfect but a is still a better example of the ideas zerk should focus on, breaking hords with your intimidating presence as you make constant attacks with consistent and potent options for opportunity attacks as you foes try to flee or reposition. Basically becoming a 15ft cube of danger enemies must avoid but at the cost of becoming even less safe than standard barbs.
Honestly though, as a player whose first character was a Berserker Barbarian.... i enjoyed the immunity to charm and fear, where i got to flip the middle finger to my DM whenever he tried to incapacitate the melee idiot with spells. Lightning from chest is cool, but its also really nice for newer players not to be frustrated when all they can do is hit something with a hammer and theyre forced to run away... just my two cents though. Plus its fun to use frenzy as a measure of last resort, dmg may be low but atleast its not turned on the party! :D
Yea but as a berserker if u only use it as a last resort then all the time that u don’t use it you’ll be playing a nerfed Barbarian. Just go any other subclass and u don’t have to be as careful when to use your abilities and berserker doesn’t even add much. It’s too easy to get a bonus attack so the bonus attack from frenzy just sucks (u can do as much dmg as any other subclass and even more if your a zealot). The only nice ability they get is the immunity to fear and charm. Everything else sucks. Tho even then if u have a Paladin (with the auras) or someone else in the party has calm emotions (aka what me and my friend call wet blanket 😂) then even that ability becomes kinda meh.
Definitely a case of trying to adapt the 3.5 rules of Rage giving Fatigue and forgetting that Exhaustion is WAAAAYYY worse than Fatigue was.
If they kept the duration of exaustion to 1 minute per round in rage I'm pretty sure berserker would be cherrished as the go to for building the basic BONK barbarian
Agreed. I think that’s because exhaustion isn’t the same as fatigued. Fatigue is a status effect, alike to the poisoned condition, exhaustion is NEGATIVE LEVELS but renamed.
Edit: reworded this comment to be more polite
@@witchBoi_Connor Pretty sure that was his point
Filippo Pili I actually like this fix, if someone is very attached to exhaustion for... some reason?
Tyrack I meant for it to be more agreeing and discussing instead of argumentative.
Edit: reworded to be more polite
On the bright side a berseker barbarian can just will themselves to death in a minute, that's something
Getting so angry that death is like, “yeah no, I can’t let you live”
You beat the shit out of vecna singlehandedly, then get a heat stroke and collapse
dose that make them strong or weak?
@@monkeysue61 yes
Get so angry they microwave their own brain
"The simplest subclass in D&D"
Champion would like a word
My thoughts exactly fren!!!
I think they meant for the Barbarian specifically.
Way of the Open Hand would like a word the simplest classes simplest subclass
@@FluffyTurbo Ki kind of adds alot of utility to monks that fighters just dont have. I played a champion in a campaign and my turns were "I run up and attack, with me once in awhile burning action surge to attack again)
@@FluffyTurbo R u kidding? Champion is objectively the easiest subclass. U literally get a higher crit chance and an extra fighting style. As the one above me said theirs a lot more abilities to keep track of that u can do with ki abilities. Like with open hand do u wanna knock the enemy prone, take away their reaction, or push em back (and that’s just with open hand abilities and only counting what u have to keep track of at lv 3). Fighter itself is the easiest class if u ask me. Theirs not much to them unless u go eldritch knight and have to keep track of spells (same with monk with four elements kinda). Hell I would say Fighter, Barbarian, and rogue r all easier to play as then monk (that’s in order to).
R.I.P. turtle, died because that extra attack had to be spent on something
*Ancestral Guardian:* Summon your Stand, 「HEIDEVOLK」, to protect yourself from all harm.
*Totem Warrior:* Refuse to die by virtue of the bear you ate whole to gain its strength.
*Zealot:* Call upon your righteous fury to smite your foes and go beyond your earthly limits.
*Storm Herald:* Gaia herself guides you to wreak havoc as an avatar of her reckoning.
*Berserker:* You can be tired. If you really try hard enough, you can be dead.
Combine ancestral guardian with monk of the astral self for even more stand powers
So... no Battle Rager?
@@vernonhampton5863 Battle Rager: "HUG ME BRO!"
@@vernonhampton5863 We don't talk about the battle rager.
The guardian doesn’t protect you it protects your allies
I alter Frenzy for my home games. Instead of taking a level of exhaustion, the Berserker can only use Frenzy a number of times equal to their Constitutions modifier.
That's honestly what it probably should be.
it so cool :O
Make it so they can go past the limit but if they do thats when they start getting exhaustion.
stealing this
If they have negative constitution does it loop back and integer overflow?
ive seen this probably 10 times since it came out and i'm always in awe of the style in which it's animated. super well done.
SAME
Yea watch his other videos too. They are just as good
I homebrewed a rule for my berserker, when he exits frenzy he can choose to spend an additional rage point to negate the effects of exhaustion.
It's simple to keep a track of, lets him use frenzy multiple times, and makes the choice of entering frenzy a bit more tactical.
My group just makes it so while you are raging, you don’t suffer from the effects of exhaustion, I don’t know if you have a better rule or not, what do you think?
@@reddeath4006 There are pros and cons to both. I think what sucks about Frenzy is that you're being punished for using it too severely. You either need to take a nap, or become a liability to the group. Your method works well if the group is diverse enough to cover for Barbarian's ability checks, outside of combat. My method suffers from imposing a certain mentality on a player. A level 5 Barbarian would be able to enter Frenzy 2 times, and of course, why wouldn't he? You would always go Frenzy on your first encounter. It warps Frenzy from being your ultimate ability to a resource to spend. Meaning, it's very likely the Barbarian would enter Frenzy each time there's combat, and then tries really hard to take a long rest afterwards.
@@Lomniko Well that's exactly the problem. It's a LEVEL THREE ability, not an "Ultimate" ability as you so put it. It just feels outright bad to feel the need to homebrew something as simple as the first subclass feature from one of the most universally basic and understood subclasses, the very very angry barbarian.
@@mofire5674 Especially considering that, due to the Exhaustion mechanic, basically every other subclass is just better. Like hmm, do I wanna do an extra attack every turn at the cost of crippling myself or:
-Become resistant to _all damage BUT psychic_
-Call upon the spirits of my ancestors to aid me in combat
-Deal bonus damage with every hit AND passively negate the expense barrier of revival spells if I happen to die somehow
And so on and so forth.
My DM made a rule change of taking a D8 of psychic damage to get yourself psyched up, it can't be reduced in any way. But it prevents the exhaustion. The damage is miniscule at later levels, but getting that extra swing at the cost of a bonus action and some HP makes it more viable, especially if you have a healer on deck to keep you up.
Don't forget that useless 10th level ability "Intimidating Presence" that is based off your Charisma. Tasha's Cauldron should have addressed this
Yeah that feature is genuinely worse than Frenzy.
Tasha's should have reworked the Berserker entirely like they did the Ranger and especially Beastmaster.
I'm currently trying to homebrew a version of the Berserker that realizes its intended flavor better
@@jcdenton2187 keep the fremzy the same. But, after they finish frenzying, they roll a con save with a DC:10. If they pass, no exhaustion. Each frenzy it increases by 5, until they fail, then it resets to 10 for the next one and so on.
Also, You could homebrew it so the Intimidating presence uses your strength mod, as some dms (me included) will let players use strength for intimidation, if it's better than their charisma. As a hulking minotaur Barbarain is terrifying, whether they can use long words or not.
Another possible fix would be you could frenzy half the number of rages you have per short/long rest and get rid of the exhaustion.
@@rocksnrolls These are the changes that are most commonly accepted for it yes. Doesn't overcomplicate the class and still keeps the niche of the Berserker.
Should be based of your leve instead, the more powerful you are the more terrifying you appear
“Beware the berserker” good advice for new players and for NPC’s
Also good advice for veteran players who look at it and think it’s a good idea without realizing what exhaustion does.
"beware the berserker" is just good advice in general... in game and out of game!
Do you get a point of exhaustion when you do Frenzy without a constitution save ?
steph628 Yep, the exhaustion point just goes through, no save.
Beware the berserker. Frenzy is bad when you have it because exhaustion and frenzy is bad when enemies have it because they don't need to worry about the rest of their adventuring day.
Giffyglyph solves this by spending a hit die when frenzy ends, and only gaining exhaustion after all your hit dice are spent
This is an interesting alternative! I would probably either do this, or just ignore exhaustion entirely.
Or just have it burn 2 hit die per use of Frenzied Rage. Since hit die restore slowly (but not at a snails pace) and the tank is more often using them on short rests, the barbarian would need to decide between 'defensive' hit die pool or go full offense. So if the character runs out of hit die (or only has one left), they can't frenzy.
Another alternative, they don't frenzy rage. While raging, every frenzy attack they make burns one hit die (which is probably too costly even with short battles). Strangely, I keep hearing about battles running into five rounds. This is very very rare for me with most of my battles running 1.5 to 3 rounds. Even my big battles only run long if there is a major environmental challenge like large distances or aerial combat [like fighting Harpies and Perytons in the air while riding Giant Eagles (who are actually NPC-Pixie-Polymorphed NPC-Hunters) and the Harpy villain is a warlock with legendary actions and Fiendish Vigor - that battle went very differently than I expected; 1-on-1 games are so fun].
@@Iceblade423 I house ruled frenzied berserkers to get at 5th level you can frenzy a number of times equal to 1/2 your con mod rounded up per long rest at no penalty....no one has yet to play it and our other 2 DMs also used that and still no takers, it's been 2 years heh. Also there is a sort of fix for frenzy in UA using multiclassing as a ranger and picking up the alternate class feature at level 1that lets you recover exhaustion on a short rest. With Tasha's coming out soon there's a fair chance this might be in it.
1st-level ranger feature (replaces Natural
Explorer)
You are an unsurpassed explorer and survivor.
Choose one of the following benefits, and then
choose another one at 6th and 10th level.
Tireless
As an action, you can give yourself a number of
temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + your
Wisdom modifier. You can use this special action
a number of times equal to your Wisdom
modifier (a minimum of once), and you regain all
expended uses when you finish a long rest.
In addition, whenever you finish a short rest,
your exhaustion level, if any, is decreased by 1.
@@keaering5183 That rule won't be going in as a first level ability due to this very multiclass. In fact, this situation results in a multiclass tax on the berserker.
@@Iceblade423 yeah well explain that to the devs who made the path a pile of crap. Frenzy itself is a tax heh,
The Berserker actually does pretty nicely with this one simple change: You only get exhaustion if it's your second frenzy before a short rest. It does still make the player think about it, but is not taxing to the point of making you choose between playing your class and gimping your character for the day.
an even simpler solution: Bonus Feat: F. Exhaustion - Berserker is immune to fatigue
@@zarthemad8386making a class immune to exhaustion is like making a race not have to eat or sleep or take a rest within half the time a normal person needs to-
It’s just *super annoying*, it’s like adding mechanics to the game just to remove them for narrative reasons and ultimately it just doesn’t make sense as to why specific things just get to be you but better- so there’s no real reason to say “beserker immune to exhaustion”
BUT there’s a good reason to try and change around beserker a bit to make frenzy not have exhaustion but do something else or just remove exhaustion from frenzy as a whole, the answer is going to vary from gm to gm but when you start to stack “haha I don’t care about that” features it starts to get a little graining
Like if a warforged took frenzy barbarian and just NEVER stacked exhaustion ever they could just never HAVE to rest, since they already don’t have to eat or sleep, or if (heaven forbid) an elf took beserker barbarian not only would they be resistant to a pool of magic saves, rest in half the time a normal player does, but also just outright ignore exhaustion so they can trick through whatever silly plans they have- it falls apart quickly,
But it’s your game and your gm, do what you will and what they rule
Star Wars 5e does this and then takes it a step further by saying that they recover from 2 levels of exhaustion per long rest
These two changes make a MASSIVE difference
I'll say the same thing about Berserkers having to deal with exhaustion that I do at the Sharpshooter feat breaking the cover mechanic: "Aha, you fool! You assume my players EVEN PAY ATTENTION to those rules!" (cries in DM)
I feel the same way about spell components...
I think I have yet to see a player actually paying attention to them on their own
@@aldoushuxley5953 that in part to how 5e basically says unless there's a cost it doesn't matter
sees a DM that actually sets up maps with cover in the first place. Can I be your player? I promise I won't do to much crazy stuff.
@@certanmike That is true for full casters with a focus, but not for rangers, arcane tricksters etc.
Somatic and verbal components also affect how someone will react to you casting a spell.
If you are in a court room and cast suggestion, it sounds great in theory, but some dude mumbeling whilst staring at the judge will be very suspicious.
Components also affect casting while sneaking or in silence, casting while restrained (in handcuffs etc) and so on.
I think just ignoring them (like most groups including mine do) really takes away from the magic system and sorcerers in particular (because it makes subtle spell useless)
Aldous Huxley only ones with a cost actually matter the rest are covered by either a component pouch or an arcane focus.
The spell sickening radiance forces exhaustion levels on enemies. It's wonderful to cast in a room and bar the door.
One of the cheesiest combos in 5e: Forcecage and Sickening Radiance.
True, but the exhaustion just goes away after the spell ends, so it isn't even "real" exhaustion (unless they die).
it also works every time you enter the aoe so if you have another warlock or 2 with the push/pull eldritch blast you can kill anything that can die from exhaustion in a round or two even with legendary saves by pulling them in and out of the aoe.
@@VxdspawnVx pull is once per TURN. Not on every beam.
Push however is on every single hit, though, Push is unlimited but Slow and Pull are very limited.
@@g80gzt where does it say the pull effects are once per turn?
Is it errata? Because it sure doesn't say it in the description of the class feature. *Edit* Nevermind I'm wrong, but it's weird.
"Feats are optional rules", said pretty much everyone, while also playing with them always.
Here's another kicker for Frenzy: Great Weapon Master. if you eliminate something or get a crit, you'll get the benefit of frenzy for that turn anyway. It's arguably the most common/effective feat for barbarians.
There's also Polearm Master. While it provides a less powerful bonus attack it provides that every time you swing on top of letting you Attack of Opportunity opponents that can't beat the shit out of you unless they get close to you. Both attacks get the full benefit of your rage.
Our DM banned Great Weapon Master, Luck and Sharpshooter. Though this does not hinder us in any way. The game isn't less fun either.
I've only seen one GM stick to "no-feats", and the same guy was pretty anti-fun imo.
Both multiclassing and feats were banned because "they are cheating".
@@TheDonmayo A full ban is understandable with those. Personally, I nerfed the shit out of them.
@@CondemnedGuy Yeah, after reading what they did, I could understand why he banned them. To make it up he designed/homebrewed some awesome relics.
Man, you went into a frenzy against the stupidity of that subclass.
Tired?
1/6 of the way of being dead tired?
Honestly, it sounded like he was bashing on the whole class too. Barbarians are the simplest class? Yeah, no, that's the fighter. Everybody's always saying to new players to stay away from Spellcasters and just play a Barbarian? I never heard anyone say that before, ever! The truth is that nobody plays a Barbarian unless they're trying to play a Grog look alike? Load of Shlock; I played a Barbarian in 5e before I knew Grog existed! Barbarian's are too simple? Hey, Brutal Critical isn't exactly easy to remember when you have a 1 out of 20 chance of scoring a critical hit; plus you need to pay attention to how your rage is affected concerning rounds and things that can end it early. Seriously, the Champion Fighter is the simplest subclass to play; it's a straight forward subclass for a straight forward class.
This whole thing reminds me of one quote I read in a D&D book somewhere (can't remember which or where I read it), which was "The rules serve the DM, not the other way around". As I've seen many other people say in the comments, they simply have their own house rules or versions in regards to the ability or exhaustion in general. So long as you make it clear to everyone this is how it's working in your game, a small tweaking of the rules isn't that bad a thing... unless you're the DM I'm currently with who threw half the rule book out to make the whole thing "thematic" >_>
Doesn't help Adventurers League
@@flyingfree333 ^This, exactly. Even if Adventurer's League DMs _wanted_ to change the system for players, they can't. They are obligated to run the game by the book.
Also, no amount of house-ruling changes the fact that the Rules As Written for Berzerker Barbarian are bad.
@@Bluecho4 I did wonder if AL DMs were stuck with that or not. Still, it's not like people are being forced to run things AL style
@@Bluecho4 It's not bad, every other ability it gets is really good, and, with a big two-handed weapon like a greataxe and maybe great weapon master, a frenzied rage gives you the highest extra damage output of all the barbarian subclasses that deal extra damage
So yes, it does cost a lot, maybe it should be a little less costly, but it's still definitely worth it. Not to mention that several other classes can pick up Greater Restoration, which, while costly, by the time you can pick it up, you can probably easily afford the 100 gp worth of diamond dust, and it's fairly likely that you have a bard, druid, or cleric who wouldn't mind using that if it's needed.
I liked the flavor and the idea of adding bloodied into 5e (where if you are at half or less of your max HP you are bloodied) and then have frenzy be usable when bloodied with no downside, granted I guess it could cause some issue because you need to get hurt to use it.
I loved that he role-played an Angry Barbarian to talk about how mad he was at this mechanic
It’s a great class! You just need.... vitality potions and someone to use greater restoration on you...
For an extra attack.
Well, an extra attack each round for the rest of your rage. Make it to 5th level and you get three attacks per round. Kick in Reckless Attack, and each one of those attacks has Advantage. Plus you still get your Barbarian bonus damage of +2.
Basically, it's a nuclear option. As such, Frenzy is optional during Rage, and does not affect other class features.
@@Wolfrover Yeah, but if you have to burn that early after a long rest you're going to have a shitty session. Playing on permanent disadvantage for checks is not fun. Playing with exhaustion is one of the easiest ways to get that player to attempt nothing.
@@Wolfrover Or you could take Polearm Master with any other better Barbarian subclass.
@@Wolfrover As someone else already said just play any other subclass and pick up Polearm master. Or literally the multiple other ways to get an extra bonus attack that can do just as much dmg. Like great weapon fighting or taking the feat that gives u a fighting style to start dual wielding. Your core mechanic is completely replaced and worse then just taking a single feat since none of those give a point of exhaustion. In fact since only 1 point of exhaustion goes away after a long rest if u use it twice in a day u won’t fully recover the next day. I mean u can save it just for a boss fight but what if theirs more then one boss in a day and what’s the point in picking this if your gonna be that scarce with it?
Literally pick any other subclass and your better off due to not gaining exhaustion for using your core ability but can get what said core mechanic is on literally any other subclass on top of what u get on that subclass. Literally Zealot Barbarians get the thing later on where as long as they are raging they can’t be killed even if it’s a killing blow and theirs no save or anything required so as long as u get healed before your rage ends u can’t die ever. All Barbarians get an ability similar to this but it can’t be a killing blow and it’s a save that gets harder and harder. That and the Bear Barbarians with all the resistances. Yea these are so much better then literally anything the Berserker can do (and I could continue as well).
@@Wolfrover give the barbarian an adamantine weapon (let’s be honest, it’s probably a greataxe) and if those three attacks hit, that’s at bare minimum 15d12+15.
Here's a simple fix for Frenzied Rage: "When your rage ends, you must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or you suffer one level of exhaustion. Each time you succeed on this saving throw, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10."
Overall, this fix would allow a berserker to frenzy once per day with a generously high chance of avoiding the exhaustion penalty (up to an 80% chance of success on their first saving throw at 3rd-level; guaranteed success on their first saving throw can be obtained as early as 9th-level), while also placing a soft limit on how often they can use this feature.
Plus, this fix is very similar the Relentless Rage feature, which should keep the berserker subclass simple to learn and easy to play.
it's like a homebrew subclass of a barbarian i am playing that has a DC sav starting at very low score anmd increasing after every success until you fail, if i fail my next turn i attack the closest thing near me, with that change, BOOM you now have a frenzy barbarian using his con (which if its high for the big health bonus) can be really good to keep him from passing out dead because he wanted to make sure his can protect his or her team
I would start DC at about 13 - but general idea noted for later
I would give one frenzy for free and every frenzy after then they have to make a save with what you described, as a sort of try before you commit way
My ability to roll dice is about same level as Will Wheaton. So either way I'm f*****
Saving this for later
Virgin Berserker vs Chad Totem Warrior
Giga Chad totem of Bear
Don't forget to add the tough and sentinel feats as well to your totem in order to give your DM the true embodiment of meat shield and multiclsss into brute fighter for action surge and second wind so that even if you get bellow a 10th of your health just hard flex and recover it all
@@guardiangamer6528 how do you guys decide the aggro of the enemy? right now i'm having them rolling a d6 if two or more characters are in range or if two or more characters are the biggest threat. unless it is a "personal" battle, then it's easier for me. But, how about you guys? Asking here becuase since you make a meat shield, without any form of "taunt" it might not be super useful.
@@MasterSuchiro Nah, if you have a paladin or rogue in the party... especially if it's an assasin rogue, go Wolf Totem... not as tanky but it will make sure everything gets killed near you
Bearbarian is the bestbarian.
"simplest subclass in dnd"
Champion fighter: am I a joke to you?
Yes, yes you are.
@ian fily Battle master is supremely bad ass and makes fights like actual fights rather than bashing weapon against person until they die.
@@johnnygreenface4195 Could not have put it better myself. Honestly, every full martial class should have some superiority die.
The only time I played a pure Champion fighter was for a 10th-ish level game where I was was just a guest-player to help out with a specific encounter (the DM thought they might need the help), and I needed to whip up a character on very short notice.
Man, it is *boring*. I get that there's all kinds of ways to gussy-up "I swing my sword", but 90% of it still boils down to "I swing my sword". Sure, I could throw stuff...but what stuff can I throw at CR 10+ creatures that would be more useful than hitting them with my sword?
And yeah, I can grapple or shove...but why bother? I can *try* to knock someone prone to get advantage with my sword, but I'm better off just hitting them with mys word since that doesn't give all my ranged party members disadvantage against the same enemy.
Out of combat, I remember trying to find any moment where I could be uniquely useful amid all the powerful multiclass spellcasters, and being really excited when there was an opportunity to use Remarkable Athlete to leap across a pit of acid and rescue a child NPC. One of the spellcasters just teleported over and took care of it before I could even speak my plan.
2/10 would've rather been a samurai.
@Warlok Ah, with full 1-for-1 progression in THAC0 by level, ability to use all forms of armor and weapons, gain more than +2 hp per hit dice from Constitution, percentile Strength, Weapon Specialization, and D10 hit dice, Fighters in 2e can and do kick ass. Too bad it costs 2 nonweapon proficiency slots to be literate as one, though.
Now I know why Conan went multi-class with thief and warrior. He just got the first 2 levels of barbarian to avoid this rule.
Path of the Totem warrior is were its at, especially choosing the Bear Spirit, takes half damage from everything other than psychic
Then you choose Kalashtar as your race
@@phoenixgaming4185 Absolutely!!!
Or just get creative with your race. I once did a Tortle barbarian druid, and its so fun to roleplay a Bear with a fucking shell
Probably the only good Barbarian build in the original DND 5th edition release
@ true, seeing as how at 15th level, you literally cannot die
Me and my D&D group agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with this sentiment. For my campaign, I've added a few homebrew buffs to the Berserker:
- During a Frenzy Rage, your Rage damage is doubled (so +2 becomes +4 damage).
- Mindless Rage gives Stun immunity
- Intimidating Presence is now an AoE (Number of enemies equal to your Con mod in a 30 foot radius), and the DC is now calculated off of your Con, rather than Charisma.
Just some small changes, but they've gone a LONG way in improving one of my player's enjoyment of the sub-class.
@ReplicaSwordsam I know you’re trying to make it stronger, but why would you make it Constitution modifier number of creatures and not str modifier or charisma modifier, or just have it be all of the creatures in that radius with no regards to numbers. Because the fear factor a barbarian instills is more dependent on how strong he is, or how he is able to convey his strength rather than how healthy or how good his endurance is.
@@Exisist5151 I think it’s more because con is essentially the secondary stat of a barbarian (Like wisdom for Monk and charisma for paladin), and the fact that it’s charisma really bogs down the ability due to not all barbarians wanting to have high charisma. Although I do agree that strength does make more sense.
@@leonardodehammer8158 I think their point is it makes no sense for the barbarian's immune system to be the most scary thing about him.
If it was his sheer destructive power (strength) or his ability to intimidate (charisma) it would make sense.
About making sense rather than making it more effective.
@@PaladinGear15 Easy, CON in this case means "physically imposing".
@@KruxisV not by a mile, that would be "strength". Constitution is really meant to be physiological hardyness, and not necessarily due to muscles: SORCERERS have Con a saving throw, and they're a friggin magic casting class with a d6 for their Hit Point dice
There's one spell I know that can cause exhaustion: Dream. Often overlooked, this spell can make a warlock lethal from incredible range so far as they are on the same plane of existence. Target your enemy and have friends go into a trance while you take a short rest to regain your spells and you can have Dream ready for anytime they sleep. If they fail the wisdom save six times (or add two more times every time they do save and take away one point of exhaustion) then with six ticks of exhaustion they kick the bucket! It's also the best nighttime messenger spell as you can contact anyone before bed and converse back and forth until you have all the information you need
Dream is also pretty wild since it deals enough damage to possibly kill your average commoner. Kill that shopkeeper from a country away! But unless your DM is using variant rules, you don't get a level of exhaustion from skipping a long rest. It's only an optional rule in Xanathar's that skipping a long rest could induce a con save for exhaustion. If you wanted, your PC could go their entire life without taking the mechanical benefits of a long rest (maybe you're one of those people who likes a segmented sleep cycle), and nothing bad would happen to them.
here's another one for your list. Sickening Radiance. sure the exhaustion only lasts as long as the spell does, but it's pretty brutal.
had it used against our party consistently, and it's a scary spell.
Straight-up my favorite spell in the game. Sending has nothing on dream. Want an incredibly long, convoluted message? Dream. Want to try to trick the enemy into betraying/mistrusting their allies? Dream. Kill from an incredible distance, and so much more. It is perhaps one of, if not the most versatile spell in the game, and is limited only by what you make of it.
Quoting Paladinman41 up in the comments "I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over my Kalashtar Totem Warrior's RESISTANCE TO ALL DAMAGE" and I might add that they also get immunity to the dream spell...
@@reaumwingblade5783 already mentioned it the vid my guy, great if you can trap an opponent
*sniffly snort*
Berserker Barb: Do y'all got any more of 'em.... vitality potions?
For some reason the anger in his voice and aggressive music fit SO well for this, it was weird. I love this episode!
I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you over my Kalashtar Totem Warrior’s RESISTANCE TO ALL DAMAGE
Except psychic, which warlock fiend patron ability can cover.
@@thejestor9378 that's the point of going Kalashtar. They have psychic resistance.
@@thejestor9378 the Kalashtar race has Psychic resistance.
@@thejestor9378 Kalashtar
JG R okay, so I apparently missed an update with a new race.. wtf is a Kalashtar?!
There were quite a few times when exhaustion seriously screwed up Grog during campaign 1. I distinctly remember him dropping straight-up dead after crit-failing a save that he otherwise would have passed, all because he'd accumulated three levels of exhaustion.
Yea when the sword sucked his soul out, that was kinda funny.
Except that was specifically because he didn't sleep because of how his cursed sword worked. It had nothing to do with him being a Berserker.
@@chaddixon9764 Along with the fact that they ignored plenty of stat debuffs and called it homebrewing, frenzied attacks that were made, and the boots of haste are two examples. Using Critical Role as an example is never good, because they don't really follow the rules, and it take you either doing leg work to figure out what sounds wrong and right and when you want to inform others BAM you're a "Rules Lawyer." @Zee Bashew could literally make dozens of videos on all the mess ups. fudges, and overall blatant disregard of skills, abilities, and rules ignored or not explained, it would be interesting and insightful however people would think he nothing more than a "Hater."
@@Kebutor Correction: Season 1 of Critical Role didn't follow the rules closely. And whilst I get your point about the boots of haste, homebrewing isn't breaking the rules.
@@RasmusVJS I agree, but listening to them talk about homebrewing and there is only one or two items they created but it was more ignoring rules and conditions and calling it homebrewing. The DM does have final say and can allow rule changes but when they have left things in the air and made people watching it either figure it out or argue about it shows poor planning or direction.
I was reading the Berserker subclass when I was a newbie and was like. "What's exhaustion?" I read what exhaustion was and realized that it was definitely not worth it. So I went with Ancestral Guardian.
Also the fact that if you Rage/Frenzy as a bonus action, you can't use its CORE BENEFIT until your next turn. Because the extra attack it gives is also a Bonus Action.
I also love how your character handles the poleaxe...just the whole thing, postures, resting, strikss...Nice new character and the whole music and movements of the character remind me of both Spyro the Dragon and Sly Cooper...congrats, you made a character for a Barbarian Video Game you Wizard!
"Simplest subclass"
That is one weird looking Champion Fighter.
C'mon, no one actually PLAY'S Champion Fighter, it's just there so their Barbarian/Rogue/Paladin can take a three level dip into it for Action Surge and the expanded crit range.
I did. A year and a half later, the campaign is a lot more alive than I ever expected it to be by this point and I changed into play a wizard.
SaviorOfNirn
That's like saying it's better to take a stick into combat than a gun that can only shoot the user in the foot.
@@Endershock1678 hey, really sharp sticks are still pretty good, just look at Pikes
@@curnott6051 one of my party members plays champion fighter. She works 12 hours a day, and we always find a way to work in her loud snoring into the campaign. Low initiative? Fighter was shaking off her nap. Party having breakfast after long rest? Fighter is sleeping in. Tied to chairs and being interrogated? You get the idea
who ever animates these videos does an absolute amazing job on the hands: the movement, the structure of the fingers, just all of it
I believe that its the same guy voicing it that animates. Still, your point is very valid.
And then the DM charmed the barbarian with a succubus, and everyone else died because he didn't take berserker to get charm immunity.
If charm makes the barb attack the party or not attack a creature attacking the party... the barb wanted to kill them anyways
@@privatezim3637 Succubus's Charm ability works differently from the "Charmed" condition. It's basically Dominate Person, so yeah. The barb will do nothing but attack the party.
This has always been my point about Berserker. Agreed, Frenzy could use work, and the Fear ability based on Cha is.. underwhelming. However, the rest of the Subclass has a very solid combat flow. Since brain saves tend to be a Barb’s worst nightmare (as both a player and a DM, I’ve simply planeshifted Barbs out of “existence” multiple times), the ability to not even miss a beat against charm and fright (SUPER common late-game effects) is quite appealing. The damage-reaction attacks are really good too, guaranteed use of Reactions for damage output, less reliance on the enemy moving in order to make Opportunity Attacks. As it stands, the way to play is to choose not to Frenzy, because it IS optional. They can use a normal Rage, OR Frenzy. That is how the ability is written. So, save Frenzy for Boss type monsters and just enjoy the rest of the benefits the rest of the time. (Frenzy could still use work tho, maybe make it something like “while Frenzied, whenever you take the attack action on your turn, you can make an additional attack”, which keeps in theme with the idea of the subclass, and leaves the benefit of things like Two Weapon Fighting or Great Weapon Master still viable. I feel people would be less tweaked about it that way.)
A straight extra attack is really powerful when combined with GWM - at level 5 potentially dealing:
4 x 2d6+5+10 damage - or approximately 88 damage per round (i.e. could single-handedly beat a boss encounter for the whole party in about 3 turns).
@@agilemind6241
Yep. And, two (two and a half?) responses to that:
First; that’s... kinda the point. It is strong, but barely different than a similar encounter with Zealot. The math adds up to being some less, but with no Exhaustion, and for the duration of every Rage (as stated, Frenzy is a choice to activate, functioning as two “Rage modes”). Cost-to-benefit, with Exhaustion being such a punishing mechanic anywhere past first tier... yeah. That’s ok.
Second; well, that’s kind of the DMs problem. And I say this as someone who DMs more than plays. In most cases, a table isn’t using a preset adventure, where this could admittedly be more noticeable. For the most part, the encounters are built with the party in mind. If the Barb can (with crits, with all hits, with Frenzy, with Greatsword *more on that bit later*) drop a boss in a couple rounds... change the encounter. Add in a couple more meaty targets like ogres, choose a boss with higher AC (to counteract the effectiveness of Sharpshooter/Great Weapon Master), make sure AoEs are involved to chip away at HP pools, pick a boss that FLIES (best option in my opinion, I find it hilarious). In short, powergamers gonna powergame. If this is your group... you know that. And, you build accordingly.
Third (mostly just me being a stats/math neeeerd); my friend, WHY does your Barb have a Greatsword/Maul in this math?? Sure, it averages *slightly* better because damage minimums are higher, and two dice ensures mid-value rolls are massively more common that highs or lows, but any munchkin worth their salt knows you go Greataxe, go Half Orc, never look back. Since both Savage Attacks and Brutal Critical (9th Level, I know, but people tend to stick with early choices like preferred weapons) only add a single weapon dice on top of crits, and crits are assumed in your math, it’s muuuch more fun to crit for 3d12 than 5d6. And, the math just gets funnier with full Brutal Critical+Savage Attacks, capping out at 6d12 (42 average) vs 8d6 (32 average). The Greatsword/Maul is great for Fighters, but the Greataxe was made for Barbs, heheh.
PS; also, either you’re assuming the Barb has 16 Str, or you’re not including Rage Damage in your calcs. Also, not including extra damage dice from crits. Small note, that’s all
Personally I just have my Berserkers make a Con save after using frenzy with a DC equal to half the last round of damage they did, or 10 (whichever is higher), meaning they can choose to slowly cool down from the frenzy by doing only one attack to lower the dc, or risk a point of exhaustion. It's not the most balanced thing but my players enjoy it, and I haven't seen it break my game quite yet.
I like this.
Maybe you could get a set number of frenzied rounds, maybe scale them with the barbarian's level, and every round after that you roll a steadily increasing CON save like with the Relentless Rage feature.
That's a good idea. thank you.
Prone to abuse when the barbarian makes sure to end his rage by making an unarmed strike, minimizing his damage. Instead, make a Con saving throw at the end of the rage with a DC equal to 10+'N', where "n" equals the number of rounds spent in a frenzy since you last completed a long rest. This makes it more difficult the longer and more frequently you rage, more likely to be "exhausting." While also making it so you can use Frenzy more than once in a day. Risk vs Reward and it become even more risky at higher levels when you can use it more often.
That makes the difficulty between 11 and 30, depending on if you use frenzy on both rages in a day, so it can become a guaranteed exhaustion if you use it non-stop, but if used in short bursts you can avoid the cost. Barbarians being proficient with Con saves helps with this even more.
I realize this is supposed to be the simplest of the barbarian sub classes, so we can make an easy mode where the DC is 10+an additional +2 for each rage you've used since your last long rest. a level 1 barbarian could use frenzy every fight, making 2 con saves; DC 12 and DC 14. a level 3 has to make an additional DC 16 when he uses a 3rd frenzy. Rages cap out at 6 uses by level 17, with a final DC of 22, which is not as hard as it looks for a level 17 barbarian with a +11 to their Con save, not counting magic items. on the flip side, 6 frenzies in one day could potentially kill the barbarian, which sounds realistic, but the chances of failing all 6 saves, is impossible, because the first one is DC 12 and the barbarian has that +11 mod to the save.
@@coryalfaro9376 I mean having the barbarian choose to do as little damage as possible on their last attack before dropping rage is kinda the point, though I probably should have specified weapon damage. In theory it's them purposefully slowing down so they can cool off. It's supposed to be so they choose to only take one attack instead of taking multi attack on their last round of rage but I forgot to put in their I wouldn't count fist damage.
Then again I dont have players that really min-max that often so I have yet to have an issue. So I guess what you're proposing would be better for more experienced players seeking to drip as much value from their build as possible.
Aye, the Berserker Barbarian was an amazing concept...that shot itself in the foot.
Shame, too...the later abilities like being immune to "Charm" or "Fear", and attacking on a Reaction, really stacks the damage in the Berserker's favor...if only they had eliminated that damn exhaustion.
I'd propose a fix...if the Berserker uses their "Frenzy" to attack, they have to roll a die to determine if they strike their target, if another target is within melee striking distance.
This could be a coin flip, or a die roll.
If they fail, they strike another target within melee distance...and this could be an ally.
Now, 1 vs. 1...this is no problem: The Berserker just strikes that one opponent again.
If the Berserker is dealing with more than one enemy...again, no real problem: They're sharing that damage with the enemy.
But if an ally is within range...well, that's your major drawback.
This is easily avoided by getting the hell away from the Berserker when they're raging...and it truly defines the subclass: That THIS is that barbarian you don't want to be near when they're angry.
How I changed Berserker:
Frenzy now consumes 1 hit dice.
Mindless Rage now just grants immunity to charmed and frightened, and doesn't suspend the effect - which makes way more sense than "Are you done being mad? Okay, you piss your pants in fear." Also, you gain bonus damage equal to your barbarian level against targets that try to frighten/charm you on your next attack. ("Puny god.")
Intimidating Presence is now a bonus action. It now functions based on your strength and proficiency bonus (IE: You make an act of smashing the ground with all of your strength, causing dirt to fly in all directions. The enemy is terrified of your brute strength). For every 4 levels in barbarian past level 10, you can target 1 additional creature with this effect, up to a max of 3.
Retaliation is fine where it is.
I just saved a man from the Berserker yesterday. My friend was running a campaign for me, his 2 sisters, and another friend of his. The other friend hadn't played much D&D and was choosing to be a Barbarian. Session was about to start and we all got into the D&D Beyond Campaign so that the DM's sister could use the homebrew Druid subclass I had made for her and I saw that the other friend was a Berserker Barbarian. Knowing what kind of guy my DM is I look at him and ask "You were just going to watch him die weren't you" and yeah he knew and did nothing about it but to be fair it was the only subclass that D&D Beyond gave him as an option since they don't have any of the books and no homebrew. Fortunately the DM did have a lot of the books and I had previously played a Wild Magic Barbarian so they were able to switch over to that while I was also playing a Barbarian with Path of the Storm Herald, the other subclass mentioned in this video that allows you to shoot lightning out of your chest. So yeah, close call but I managed to save the guy. Turns out they're a bit of a murder-hobo but they're very charismatic about it so they're not causing any problems and it usually turns out pretty funny since the DM has a good handle on all of the party members. Speaking of that though, there was also an NPC that we happened to meet before we set out on the ocean for our first mission called Gundarr that apparently the DM had given my homebrew Blood Hunter subclass called Order of the Blood Rune which was a real shock and made me both proud and terrified that they found a way to use it that I didn't even think of.
“Barbarians are simple” clearly you haven’t built a Luchador Barbarian who specializes in grappling and jumping. DM’s nightmare.
Or my barbarian that dual-wields lances
"How high are the ceilings?" still haunt my dreams to this day
I have a Ranger using the revised revised Ranger from the class feature UA. At first level I took athletics expertise; at second took Unarmed Fighting fighting style giving damage on grapples which procs my, 3rd level hunters colossus slayer. 4th level I'll be taking charger feat if my DM allows me to grapple on its bonus action, 5th level's multi-attack and 6th I can cast enhance ability on myself (so I don't need to keep pestering the druid of the strength advantage roids).
My DM was laughing at first but he seems to be at a loss for words after the first few encounters.
The one who used pile drive on a dragon
I had a Beast Master Barbarian, not trying for it but when I grappled my first creature, then knocked unconscious my second it was more like. "huh? Well okay then."
I see Zee has taken to LOUD SWEARING to keep those age ratings up
Edit: Some've y'all are missing the point that Zee has been actively trying to avoid getting his content kids rated due to Coppa.
This is not a new thing.
He should just open all his videos with the following disclaimer: "If you are under 18, fuck off immediately!" Done and done, not-for-kids status established in the first few seconds.
I think he was doing that as a gimmick to go with the 'berserk rage' the character he was talking through was experiencing.
why would a Barbarian use large complicated words? Simple swears fit the raging barbarian theme better.
It's.... A video about extra mad hulkmen. What did you expect?
@@corvoattano8567 Eh, ever since Coppa, he's upped his swearing by a lot. It's kinda jarring tbh
The thing is, the "early" 5e subclasses seem really underpowered in their mechanics and "grounded" in their themes. It's like they were made by a DM who doesn't like to see his players parading around like an anime or videogame character and be like a low magic common man like Game of Thrones kind of character instead.
So they get penalties, underwhelming features and simple themes (which isn't bad, just really limiting). And because of that, there's always a better subclass. Like Bear totem for barbarians, a open hand for monks and etc.
That's why i love the new UA subclasses, they overflow with flavor and aren't afraid of being a shining flippy magical badass motherfuckers.
I prefer the older weaker subclasses. I don't need these plane shifting rangers and clockwork sorcerers. Give me an axe and a loincloth and I'll have fun being weak
I'd just remove the exhaustion from frenzy and make it like a couple uses a day or something. I get frenzying is supposed to get you all tuckered out but meh. if you wanted it to still keep that flavor just say the exhaustion wears off 1 level every short rest or the player can expend 1 HD during a short rest to remove 1 level of exhaustion so their day isn't entirely ruined.
I appreciate Frenzy as a narrative feature, while i understand it's underpowered from a mechanical feature and inherently could get your character killed, narratively it really does fit that barbarian niche so well. My favourite class is a toss up but high on that list is the homebrew class Pugilist, which focuses *a lot* on trading short term, major advantages for long term negatives, including giving points of exhaustion, and perhaps these are bad in a mechanical environment but for a player that knows what they're doing *intentionally* making that sacrifice can help say a lot about the character you're playing, and what are their motivations and goals, and i think mechanically enforced story like that is really cool.
So, in my personal opinion, the Frenzy barbarian fills the fundamental story beat of a barbarian incredibly well, and i feel more compelled to play a class that allows me to sacrifice in the heat of battle in a way that is very barbaric, over shooting lightning out of my chest a lot of the time, since if i wanted to do that there's tons of casters and off-casters i could pick.
So i guess ultimately i agree with Zee here, new players should understand the consequence of that sacrifice before picking the subclass, i guess i just felt the need to clarify a counter point in favour of Frenzy given the rather aggressive stance Zee's taken in this video haha
Here's someone who gets it. Frenzy is so great for rp and has made for a lot of chracter development in my campaign. The exhaustion has never been a big deal since I as a player have full control over it, when to proc it or not. I don't need to frenzy every fight for the sake of dps and utilizing all of my fighting machanics in every encounter. I could but the frezy can loss dramatic effect if over done.
Bouts of uncontrollable rage that leaves the user exhausted and negatively affects him adds so much to a character. When a fight gets too intense it shows how my character is losing control of himself as he frenzies. He himself can't do it, he must succumb to primal rage and bloodlust. Any encounter that deals with his motivations and the people who wronged him leads to a frenzy and the subsequent mental and physical exhaustion. It's like kio ken in dbz it's only as cool as it is because Goku pays a price for using it. He can't use kio ken every fight as it's too exhausting but he will pull it out for great narrative effect in a meaningful encounter.
My character was a standard good guy dwarf that wanted a simple life with his family. He ran a profitable mining company and possessed great knowelge of the moutains and mines surrounding his home town. His life changes when a vampire lord turns his family into thralls and infects him with vampirism making him his spawn, a drone to due his bidding. The vampire lord recognized my characters primal strength and expert knowledge of the mountains and wanted to use him to find an acient relic hidden somewhere deep in the old caverns and abandoned mines. He wanted to have my dwarf as his son in his vampiric cult, each cult family member posessing an expert skill he can use for his own gain. Bouts of rage were the only way for my character to gain some control over his mind. This escalates into frenzied rages during which my character losses himself to pure rage and hatred changing him as a person and leaving him battered and exhausted. My alignment is gradually becoming chaotic and then I want to push it to evil the more he loses himself to rage and revenge as he sees his life's work and his family crumbles and distorts around him. His arc is to try to hunt down all the vampires cult family members, avenge his family, and eventually usurp the vampire lord who forever changed his life no matter the cost, the ends justify the means type mentality. Having frenzy rage adds alot to his character as it makes for a weighted emtional story beat with consequences that last far longer than the benefits. Its great for a charcter that is unhinged and not meticulously min maxing every decision. My chracter isn't insanly analytical he's insane and will sacrifice his body in the long term to deal with what's in front of him. I want my character's mechanics and stats to reflect their personality. It's honestly one of the funest characters I've played and the standard 5e frezy and exhaustion mechanics have supported it well.
one of the problems with 5e is that they overvalued exhaustion, like the spells and magic to get rid of exhaustion are way to powerful... its honestly insane . Exhaustion is not hard to accumulate but its hard as hell to get rid of... you shouldnt need greater restoration... fucking 100 gold and a 5th level spell slot.
Fuck that, lesser restoration and a 25 GP cup of coffee should be able to handle Exhaustion for how Exhaustions works.
Also barbarian doesnt have nearly enough non-magical subclasses, that needs to be rectified... it sucks for people who dont want to play a magical character.
I had this problem with my bardbarian. It was a modern DnD setting and her barbarian side comes from her student loans and people telling her she went into the wrong college of study. Berserker is the only one of the classes that don't rage because of some spiritual or magical connection.
@Jacob Treuer Beast Chaser? Slayer?
You're not wrong about a lack of non-magic barbarians, but a lot of what exists has mostly thematic magic. Several Totem options can be imagined as non-magical: Eagle at 3rd, Tiger and Wolf at 6th and Elk, Tiger and Wolf at 10th.
I’m working on an entire book of homebrew for the Barbarian and Fighter to make their non magical subclasses better or make new ones that are purely non magical.
It is quite easy to get rid of exhaustion, you get it by resting! You don't need to keep adventuring every single day. Sometimes, you can just say you're gonna rest for three days to get rid of three exhaustion points. It is no big deal. If you don't have access to a safe place to rest, then it is a point where it matters to feel exhausted
Me a barbarian with extra frenzied attacks: you're awfully snippy for someone within stabbing range...
A character within stabbing range is a Misty Step and a Dash away from ending your Rage by denying the damage/attack condition of your rage.
@@Janders797 NEEEEEEEEERRRRDDD
Berserker Barbarian with "always tired" tattooed on their eyelids.
I honestly thought of going berserker when I first started playing, and then I noticed the exaustion effect on it. Ended up running into your video on exaustion, and was also listening to Dice Funk, the season where exaustion ended up being a very central mechanic for one of the characters. I was immedeately scared off of ever taking the Berserker tree. Honestly, why even include the exaustion penalty? Surely, if they thought the one extra attack was THAT strong, they could have added SOME other effect then one of the most powerful debuffs you can give a player character?
My guess is that it was a remnant of the fatigue mechanic from 3.5
Whether you take that extra attack ten times or one, the cost is the same. That kind of feels dumb. I think the turn you declare you're using frenzy, not only does it work as written, but you also get one extra action, just like the fighter's action surge. I think that might tempt someone to take a level of exhaustion.
Retaliation would have been better at 3rd level instead and just give them the frenzy without exhaustion at level 14, and just make an overhaul on fixing the level feature
The math on it actuall suggests it's very strong to make 1 extra attack. Rules as written, most bonus action attacks are with light weapons when using two weapon fighting, and that doesn't allow you to add your ability modifier. Frenzy attacks add both your ability modifier to damage but also add your rage bonus.
Also frenzy attacks benefit from reckless attacks meaning you can make all your attacks at advantage. At level 5 you make 2 standard and 1 bouns action attacks when attacking.
As for the math. Rolling 3 attacks at advantage gives you about a 26.50% chance to land a critical hit. When making only two attacks your critical hit chance is only 18.55%.
If you're allowed to multi class that gets even more insane. Frenzied Champion is a master of critical strikes (frenzied berzerker and champion fighter).
Your critical hit range is 19 - 20, so on your first turn rage and make 2 attacks, second turn make 2 attacks, action surge make 2 more, bonus action make 1 more, for a total of 7 attacks in 2 turns. The chance you land at least one critical hit in those first two turns is 77.12%, this can obviously vary depending on luck and really only applies to characters who are level 10 or higher.
@@joemama114 yeah but the exhaustion so you are useless the rest of the day and you can't even use that extra attack until your next turn and you could end up justing getting 1 or 2 bonus action attacks or none as the fight could end early when you already decided to frenzy as you have to decide when you go into rage
"Most players don't play barbarian, they're too simple."
Me, a barbarian main currently playing a Wild Soul BONK: You're talking a lot of smack for someone in rage distance.
Goliath Bear Totem Warrior: *lifts boulder* You wanna say that again while holding up this 1200 pound rock, Zee?!
@@videogollumer When build to maximum lift, up to 4000pounds. Whilst not beeing unincumberd. If you go for absolut max lift, when you can only move 5 feet, you can lift 10 times the amount.
Update: Take 3 levels in Oath of Glory Paladin for the Channel Divinity-> Peerless Athlet, which dubbles your lifting capacity again and gives you advantage for athletiks and acrobatics checks.
So 4000 punds x 2 x 10 = 80000 pounds.
Don't forgett reckless attack and then patient deffence as a bonus action.
@@derigel9783 Okay, where are you getting this? The Player's Handbook doesn't say anything like that, as far as I know.
@@derigel9783 Patient Defense is a Monk ability, not a Barbarian ability.
How about a homebrew tweak: Frenzy - Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage when you use your action to make a weapon attack, you can make additional attacks equal to half your proficiency modifier rounded down (minimum 1). [no BA cost, just additional attacks as part of the frenzy, and depending on how broken you feel this is compared to other barbarian subclasses because of the massive downfall of gaining exhaustion everytime you frenzied rage] an additional tweak: When your rage ends, roll a Constitution Saving throw (DC: 10 + the number of rounds of Frenzied Rage), on a failed save, you suffer one level of exhaustion. [This can bring a new level of high risk, high reward to extended Frenzied Raging especially once you reach level 15 and higher and your rage only ends if you go unconscious or choose to end it, the whole while you're going to have to keep track of how many rounds you've been frenzied and have to choose whether to end it early to avoid a higher save DC, hope for a really high roll, or be prepared to soak the exhaustion because you can't afford to loose the "action economy" game]
And I say unto you:
"Frenzy: Great in a pinch, but it's very Niche."
True but the initial/primary feature of your subclass shouldn't be only for niche situations, especially if it's the ONLY ability at that level.
That still makes it bad, because it's supposed to be a core subclass feature. As Zee says in the video, other Barb subclasses have stuff at the same level that are always useful. Storm Heralds shoot lightning out of their chest, as mentioned. Bear Totems take half damage from just about every source. Zealots deal extra damage on their first attack every round, without having to take a level of exhaustion to turn that ability on. Etc.
Every other subclass has something that's *always* good at that level. Getting a situational ability instead makes it the *objectively worse* option.
Don't play a berserker. They're bad.
@@Anergyne you forget that berserker is not the worst subclass battle rager is
@@mr.fishnix2373 ...I literally forgot Battlerager exists.
I masterfully multiclassed to barbarian for one single reason:
Adding CON to my sorcerer's AC.
Turns out I now have advantage on picking up rocks! So I no longer fear strength checks!
I wish it would have been 1 exhaustion level for an hour or something like that. Inconvenient, but not punishing.
Hell, even for just that fight would be fine.
Then they would have to have different exhaustion rules just for that ability.
Special level of exhaustion for Frenzy that goes away after a short or long rest
@@Halosty45 No special exhaustion required, just remove one level if it's been one hour since you've last frenzied raged.
Or just be unable to move for a round, kinda like the Haste spell
I agree, I would limit a person's frenzy based on their con modifier, the healthier your body is, the more additional attacks you can make within that short period of time. And you can get your frenzy back every short or long rest, because it's a martial class, and frenzy is a main gimmick of this sub class, I wouldn't want to take away the only thing sub class has going for it. Or make it every long rest depending on your style/peference as a DM. Hell make frenzy strength mod base, its up to you. When it comes to the short coming of the official material, it is up to us, the Players/DM to make up for it. At the end of the day, we can adjust the material accordingly to make it more fair or more suited to whatever campaign/story you're playing. It doesn't always have to be 100% by official book rules, we can just adjust and adapt.
It's actually comical how much better bear totem barbarian is than every other subclass. Hmm, do I get a couple extra attacks that might cripple or kill me, or do I take DOUBLE HP AGAINST 98% OF ENEMIES IN THE GAME? Tough decision, honestly.
No joke, I was playing as a Bear Totem Barbarian, and my DM at the time would roll for magic items for everyone when it came to big story beat battles. He rolled that my barbarian found a ring of resistance. He rolled for the type. I don't think he realized that the ring I got (he said it was a "Jade Ring of Resistance") was the PSYCHIC resistance ring. mostly because I got the ring after the battle, and he was very confused when, after I asked to borrow his DMG to add the effects to my character, I started laughing like a madman. He was not pleased with himself, mostly because he's the type to not go back on his word.
Until you get to higher levels though. Play a level 20 zealot barbarian, even better if you're an elf with immunity to magical sleep. Infinite rages, and you literally can't die. As long as you have a basic health potion in your pocket to throw some HP back into yourself at the end of the combat, you're golden. Or, if you don't have any potions, just keep maintaining the rage until you can find a healer. Then you can throw some gold at their feet for a resurrection, die, and get back up again when they bring you back.
Bear is solid; but standard rage already grants resistance to slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing which IME is over half of all damage PCs are likely to take anyway.
I'm also a fan of wolf totem but thats one's more teamwork oriented
or go tiger totem and get plus ten long jump and plus 3 high jump while raging at the same lvl. who's fucking idea was it to put this ability vs bear totems lvl three, its fucking baffling
Oh wow, i didnt realize it was that bad, cus every time I see a barbarian use Frenzy the exhaustion part is just a non factor
Yeah, Barbarians don’t really utilize skills, which is kind of a shame. The only real trouble I’ve ever gotten into from it was athletics checks
yeah, most groups i've played with would either ignore this fact altogether or it was a story-heavy campaign and the fights were few and far between with plenty of time to "regroup at your base and pick this up in the morning" kind of things
If exhaustion is a non factor, that's on the GM.
I use exhaustion exclusively to make things much more difficult.
house rules trump rules in the rule book, and feel a lot of gms feel the exhaustion for doing what your class is built to fucking do, is a harsh price
It definitely should be, unless they are just ruling to ignore the downside?
ok, just out of curiosity, do you have some rube goldberg machine example for barb?
Rage itself is just as complex as a monk's martial arts. There are layers of rules and restrictions on what you can do with it, like if you don't attack or take damage it stops. Take a variant human and add certain feats, or multiclass and try to combine features from other classes like sneak attack, and it can get super weird. You can sneak attack with a short sword while raging, which is just non-intuitive and weird.
technically rage prevents onlyspells, but there are things that arent spells in themselves, even if they use spellsots. 1 level of hexblade for hexblade curse to crit on a 19. Hell, Agathys temp hp lasts longer if you are raging, its not concentration, use before fight, more reflect. You can smite while raging, once again not a spell. If you fish for crits, great weapon master gives you a BA attack.
Or depends how "much" of a barbarian you want to be. Barb2/battlemaster lot for all the maneuvers on crits
Rage, get polymorphed into a T rex, then blessed, then hasted, then have fly casted on you, the rest is fairly straightforward.
@@zeebashew oh god...
@@glenmurie why is sneak attackong while raging with a finesse weapon non intuitive? You just do what your class features are saying
So to knowledge there are 2 other sorts of effects that cause exhaustion to the user: the spell tenser’s transformation and the chronurgy wizard feature convergent future. Tensers transformation does a bunch of things but basically turns its caster into a martial class for the spell’s duration (concentration, up to 10 minutes), and at the end they must make a con save or gain 1 level of exhaustion. As for convergent futures you, i kid you not, can use your reaction to change an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw into a success or a failure at the cost of 1 level of exhaustion. Tbf these are more late game abilities (compared to frenzy at 3rd level tenser’s transformation is a 6th level spell, and convergent futures is a 14th level wizard ability), but it goes to show just how much more powerful other effects that give you exhaustion can be, which makes frenzy seem just much more weaker in comparison
This is why I did away with the exhaustion drawback for Frenzy at my table. It just isn't fair. Underpowered compared to all other subclasses of Barbarian and all other classes in general. Free extra swing when raging as a bonus action. There. Done.
If I ever have someone play berserker in my own game, I'd houserule that either the exhaustion only comes with every other use of frenzy, or just limit frenzy to x-times-per-long-rest. Exhaustion for an extra attack in a combat is just too heavy-handed. Here's hoping that the new sourcebook tweaks that a bit
We homebrew at my table that coming off of Frenzy gives you the same penalty as coming off Haste where a wave of lethargy comes over you preventing you from moving or taking actions. It’s still a big deal to come out of Frenzy, but it’s not as debilitating as it currently exists.
I see. Like maybe let them frenzy a number of times equal to their rage damage.
Isn’t the number of times you can frenzy per long rest already limited as you can only frenzy when you rage and the number of times you can rage per long rest is limited until you reach level 20?
I like the Haste idea. My thought would be to allow a number of bonus action attacks equal to your CON mod per Rage before gaining exhaustion. So you'd get X for free by building up CON, but using any more gains you a level of exhaustion.
Tangentially related (if you're using UA) - make a Berserker Ranger multiclass and take the new Ranger option that lets you get rid of exhaustion on short rests.
@@patricklabreche Now this is an elegant solution.
Not gonna lie, when I started 5e DnD, I looked at the barbarian, and that exact skill was what made me drop that whole class and go play monk instead. I didn't know what exaustion did mechanically but I just knew it was bad for some reason.
probably because no other ability talked about it aside from the mother fucking radiation field spell that's explicitly trying to kill your enemies with Chernobyl!
Probably set off a fair few red flags in your brain saying "wait this is a keyword condition that isn't explained in the ability text AND literally no other feature in the player build chapters (where most players spend their time in the book) EVER mention this incredibly tiresome-sounding condition.
good choice, monks are the best punchy boys after all
To be honest, I've been trying out the Berserk in my latest game, even knowing the bad reputations, and I found some interesting, not immediately apparent, synergies: the bonus action attack is worded in such a way that it's indipendent from anything, you can just attack with a bonus action; so, for example, you can use your action ti Dodge or Dash and still bonus action attack, you can free yourself from a grapple or a trap and still Attack once, and, with the level 10 ability to frighten an enemy, you can use your action to keep them scared and away from the rest of the party and still attack someone else!
....not how DND works
@@lukelblitz3627 Why? That is exactly how the subclass works, what Is It that you feel Is incorrect?
I'm running a game of newbies and one of them wanted to go for the Berserker Barbarian. I told him about the Exhaustion aspect and he still wanted to do it, so I actually started making adjustments to the Berserker Barbarian so that it's less player hostile.
Basically as it stands, I make it so that when they enter a rage, they can choose to go into a Frenzied rage with no additional action, which allows them to make a second regular attack as if they had the Extra Attack feature. I did keep the exhaustion aspect, however I made it so that at the end of the rage they have to make a save, with the DC being 8 and increasing by one for each time they make that extra attack while frenzied. That's what we've stuck with so far and there have been no issues with exhaustion because the Barbarian rolled super well for Con.
Perhaps a simple way to improve Frenzy: First time use each day is free whereas all subsequent Fenzies add a point of exhaustion; resets after a long rest?
But... what about the ability to shoot lightning from your chest? The question is can I use that multiple times a day to outpace Frenzy? Dungeons are long multiple encounters... which is to say that if you do anything complex you still lose out. You'd have to restrict it to once per battle with a 5-minute break between battles to avoid getting exhaustion.
This is actually brilliant.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 ok, but the whole lightning blast thing is like 1d6 extra damage per turn vs a saving throw, whereas frenzy gives you potentially 1d12+str+rage bonus+feat modifiers that can have advantage on the attack roll.
It's a pretty big difference and you can't really compare the two, the former is more just like a nice little bonus to have on top of what you already get.
It's a sacrifice of quantity for quality. Not saying that as is the berserker's penalties are justified, but the OP's fix is fine imo. Rage is already honestly good enough to carry most barbarians through fights by itself, frenzy would just be there for your "shit gets real" button. Except now you could still be able to potentially use it a second time if you REALLY needed to without completely screwing yourself for an entire day of combat.
@@ihave2cows yeah even WITH an exhaustion, frenzy is simply way more powerful.
You wont need that 2dmg per round while fighting goblins.
But that extra d12+5 damage when fighting the dragon will add up FAST.
Its sort of like the difference between a firebolt and Meteor Swarm.
Yes you can only use 1 meteor swarm. But it will do much more than any firebolt can do.
Remove one level of exhaustion on a short rest, remove all exhaustion on a long rest?
Zee: (posts)
My brain: (Starts Min-Maxing in dopamine like I just found a party that doesn’t murder hobo my campaigns and always shows up on time)
And doesn't fight among one another, or bring up too many tangential conversations.
Since we're talking about Exhaustion here, the DMG has rules on chase sequences that use a modified version of Exhaustion on pages 252-255. Basically, a chase allows a participant to freely use the Dash action on their turn up to 3 times plus their ConMod before having to roll a DC 10 Con save; failing that, they gain a level of Exhaustion. The main difference is, you can't run yourself to death in a chase; a participant drops out if they hit level 5 (when their speed is reduced to 0,) and more importantly, all levels of chase-induced Exhaustion go away at once after a short or long rest.
To keep things interesting, chase sequences in the DMG also have a series of random events you roll for at the end of your turn that affects whoever's next in the initiative order. Honestly, I suspect that's what Zee used with the Goblins in Waterdeep that stole a Deck of Many Things. It's a really fun mechanic if you haven't tried it yet; A Wild Sheep Chase by Winghorn Press is a good adventure to use it.
All I'm saying is these two things:
- At level 15 your frenzy rage doesn't ever have to end before a long rest, which means you can immediately remove the exhaustion
- Berserker is the only subclass whose bonus action damage thing benefits from the Dueling fighting style, which, thanks to Fighting Initiate, is able to be obtained early on without multiclassing and is BUSTED on a barbarian. I mean, it may not look like much on paper but it really begins to add up on high HP targets.
That being said, I've always had it be a homebrew rule that instead of incurring exhaustion, there's always some other side effect, like incurring extra damage, or instead limiting how much it can be used to, say, half your proficiency bonus, rounded up. That way, you can benefit from this extra thing without suffering undue consequences.
How about a little houserule tweak: “A frenzied rage can be performed once per long rest without imposing exhaustion.”
I don’t know not a bad start but I would say just be able to do it no long rest or exhaustion seeing as how they’re rages are limited anyway and they can still use it smartly with out it being only a one off or having negative effects and I think it would still be balanced especially when looking at the other barbarian subclasses
That is the one I love the most because it keeps the drawback that has flavor without ruining Exaustion, wich is a mechanic I love because players allways go "oh shit it deals exaustion. Another way of thinking could be that levels of Exaustion gained through this feature are all lost at once with a single Long rest, or maybe even are reduced by short rest.
Make frenzy just be the de facto rage for beserker and if they run out of rage charges you can do additional rage at the cost of exhaustion. Also lvl 14 retaliation should cost no reaction, but only work during a frenzy- just my 2 cents.
Zelot is still better. You can only rage once per day effectively, even at 20th lvl, where you should be able to rage infinitely many times.
there are ways around exhaustion, being undead, warforge might prevent it and such, but new players wont find this out for a while
Would it be a reasonable “house rule” to have it so you can’t take actions for a round? (Like after haste ends?)
Sure. If a subclass's features aren't fun it's perfectly fine to tweak them if the table agrees it's reasonable.
easiest house rule: get rid of Exhaustion. Instead, when their rage ends, the Berserker is "incapacitated" for as many rounds as they were in rage for. Incapacitated states that the character cannot take actions of reactions. They can still move....or have them roll for a random condition. Anything but exhaustion, it's a big detriment.
@@panwall1327 Rolling for a random effect sounds pretty neat actually. Like Wild magic. Ranging from simply passing out and keeling over to going EXTRA berserk, losing control and attacking both friend and foe for a round or two in a blind rage. That'd be a pretty neat replacement for exhaustion.
@@Rautakello Just make sure Petrified is not on the list.
My houserules around Berserker which, in my opinion doesn't do enough to save the class but at least it provides more incentive to take it:
Frenzy straight up replaces each attack with 2 attacks. Straight up. No questions asked. Just make 2 attacks in place of the 1.
Works with Two Weapon Fighting, allowing 2 attacks with the bonus action.
Works with Polearm Master, allowing 2 1d4 attacks with the bonus action.
Works with of speed, allowing 2 attacks with the bonus action.
Works with haste (if you're feeling ballsy enough to go double exhaustion.), allowing 2 attacks with the extra action.
Works with extra attack (immediately jump to 4 attacks per round at level 5.)
Conceivably at Level 5, a player could have 8 attacks per round.
Still no player in the past few years have thought it's enough of an incentive to take the class. (If they had taken it, I would have enemies around mid-late campaign, once these adventurers are a known quantity, come prepared with ways to drop the Barbarian out of rage, adding on the exhaustion penalty immediately. But alas, this plan has never had a chance to be used.)
So these are the main changes I made to the class.
Berserker subclass is a powerhouse when in frenzy but they are frenzied so they struggle to control themselves;
-They get to use the attack action(yes the whole action) the bonus action attacks are at disadvantage
-If they are damaged they need to make make wisdome DC 8+ 1/2 melee damage, 10 +1/2 ranged damage received or will have to make there way over to the target and attack them when able to including dashing if they can't reach they won't preform actions that would kill them for example they aren't forced to jump over pits or anything they can just run around.
-they can't take any action other than attacking (they can do grappling, pushing and things like that) or moving unless persuaded to by a friend conteseted persuasion.
-they cannot end rage early unless there is no one to attack if they do they receive exhaustion for 1 hour.
Most of the other features are designed to turn the negatives into positives as you level up like when someone attacks you and you are forced to attack them you can do so immediately useing your reaction to hit then once or freely move 1/2 your movement towards them as well as power attacks that cost 2 attacks but do more damage in a aoe.
I have played in a campaign with this but they weren't a new player so I don't know how much harder it would be to pick it up for new players.
Whenever I play Barb, I try to talk to the DM to remove the exhaustion, because all that does is just makes the subclass unplayable
**sees bashew barbarian**
I mean I ain't gay but...
But a nat 20 is a nat 20?
... being bi is starting to seem like a more agreeable compromise
@@marclytle644 pasive 30 pursuation(aka seduction)
I'd tap that
Thanks for the levity, I needed it.
FYI folks, the berzerker gets mindless rage. Mindless rage does not technically dispell spells but if your character is charmed/feared it removes the effects while raged. Unless the monster ability or spells gives the caster complete control or completely pacifies hostility, then your barbarian will get to rage and will ignore charm/fear for the duration. So, that's at 6th level.
At 10th, intimidating presence pretty much gives you something akin to dragon fear but not your character character but against one enemy at a time and you can use it on indefinite enemies (but one at a time though).
Then, at 14th, with retaliation, your barbarian gets to smack anyone who damages it within 5 feet (only one enemy per turn though since it uses the reaction). Key words "take damage" though, so it could be anything, not just a melee attack.
In fact, the barbarian was so bad ass, they had to make bear totem barbarian and berserker different subclasses since combined it would be an invincible beast.
Frenzy is only bad when compared to what the barbarian gets later on in berzerker. But, like the guy said, in a vacuum it isn't bad (it isn't great either but still not bad). Overall, Berserker Barbarians are not trash, just Frenzy is (sometimes, sometimes not) but really even Frenzy has its uses. Overall, Berserker is one of the strongest subclasses in the game. And, while not the strongest or best, it definitely isn't near the bottom of list.
Pointlessly late homebrew tweak to fix the perceived problem: you have a special lethargy status after frenzy ends. You must not move or act for a turn (or two?) or, should you do so anyway, you then take the level of exhaustion.
I feel like part of the design is to balance the feature's power. If you frenzy immediately entering a fight to, ideally, fell the easy pickings and lessen the number of actions the enemy force has, then you must face the stronger forces at reduced power. If, however, you are in a desperate situation and you basically want a lifeline to call upon rather than just dying, you can try frenzy as the coup-de-grace. If frenzy ends the battle in your favor, then the resting your party would probably have needed to do anyway in that situation is super moot.
We can play, "but the opportunity cost is something I can use all the time" all day. Unless you can persuade me that the benefit gained from frenzy is too weak to warrant the balance of an imposed trade-off, then I am going to accept the frenzy's design is valid and it's not intended to be used all the time due to how OP that would be.
I just loved the music in the background, if anyone knows where to get it i'd be really thankful
AND ANOTHER THING
'Berserker' roughly translates to 'bear shirt' and referred to warriors wearing bear skins in battle, so it would make way more sense for a Bear Totem Barbarian to call themselves a Berserker than an 'extra angry' one.
"I'M GOING BEARZERK!" (calmly dons a stylish shirt that's oh so cozy in cold weather)
Words meanings change over time.
Aye but if we were to with true etymology in DND warlocks should be devil monsters, wizards should have Wis as a key stat, and monks shouldn't run in groups!
@@Ibanezer21 Anyone remember when there was a rule that you could not have more than two rangers in a party?
Beserkers weren't named for their choice of clothes, moron.
I actually had ideas for making this subclass so much more bearable, fitting its theme really well while still playing around the idea of exhaustion.
- After a long rest, you recover from ALL levels of exhaustion induced by Frenzy specifically. While you rage, you ignore the effects of Exhaustion.
- When you use your Bonus Action to Frenzy, you can make an attack as a part of that same Bonus Action.
- At level 6, the same level you get Mindless Rage, you can now remove levels of exhaustion while short resting by expending Hit Dice.
-At Level 10, when you get Intimidating Presence, you also get the ability to make two attacks using your bonus action now.
Fix is Frenzy gives exhaustion that is gotten rid of on a short rest per level, completely on a long rest are all levels gotten rid of. There is I think a term for Viking Beserkers in the Sagas for when they go into the state of weakness.
Realistically, i cannot remember what happens after Haste wears off, but something similar to just dropping totally weak for a while might be more realistic, a short rest or so many rounds. But as is, would just make it so the state is exhaustion mechanically, then describe it as 'tiredness' or whatever they called aftereffects for Beserkers in the Sagas I will look up and add here. Then that status is on short rests per level, and long rests for all levels, and treat it as a seperate, though perhaps compounding exhaustion, worth getting rid of before you get true exhaustion.
Also simply dropping a character and making death saves on level 6, but not being able to die is an alternate rule too you could try. Death saves determine if you need a short rest automatically on too many fails, or can get back up in the fight at some point. Or just let them die, since it does sound cool if a character in front of their enemy just died of exhaustion after defeating the final nemesis and sacrificing themselves...if they could run before that though too...not sure i like D&D exhaustion set up as too much and too little and yes...too underused to be done or designed well by wotc...
Great video, makes me keep coming back at the problem and love the character you made. Poor Croc-Wizard...
I would argue that THE simple barbarian is Bear Totem. Resistance to (almost) everything.
Simple but not as simple as "get madder". Each class has an archetype that is meant to be simply base+ while others add new flavor to the character. Totem is seen as the base+ barbarian in the eyes of many, but only because we simply ignore berserker because of its major flaw.
Berserker is meant to be that, but the exhaustion mechanic makes it fundamentally worthless.
@@prof.loophole9708 I'd argue that Berserk isn't "simple" for two reasons:
-All the starting Totem abilities are fairly simple and they are always on when you are raging. Berserker having a modal rage is trickier.
-Berserk using the Exhausting mechanic add a fair amount of mechanical complexity to the class. Exhaustion is a very rarely seen mechanic and nothing else in the game escalates like it does. It isn't like getting Poisoned twice makes you look up a chart with extra effects.
@@GreatgoatonFire I think you are conflating simplicity with execution. Totem Barbarian ability has more options, and more to explain. Once you comprehend it, its easy to see the simple to play options, but they are still choices a player must make. Berserker you simply gain a feature with a straight forward process despite it being bad.
The fact the Berserker ability is useless doesn't make it more complicated, just not worth playing.
Adding a bit of my own view on the development of the game I think the Berserker was written before Exhaustion was finalized. Exhaustion has always been a thing and 5e made it very different than pervious versions
@@prof.loophole9708 Look, agree to disagree?
imho the added complexity of straight forward suboptions are minor compared to the extra "toggle" of having two levels of rage.
I've seen new player forget about their Rage for whole dungeons, adding "levels of raging" to att is going to make that worse.
Totem barbarian does have other options, though. Wolf could be useful if you're partying with other meatstick classes like Fighter and Paladin and Eagle gives you a lot of mobility. Their level 10 ability gives them spells.
As a DM and Player I house rule that you get one frenzy per long rest for free, but if you use it again you gain a level of exhaustion.
Easy fixes to make Berserkers a viable class.
Frenzy: Remove the exhaustion completely and allow the bonus attack to be done on the turn frenzy is activated.
Intimidating Presence: Use Strength instead of Charisma to determine the DC of the frighten effect.
Retaliation: Have it not use a reaction. Essentially; every time the berserker gets attacked/takes damage, if the enemy is within 5 feet, he gets a retaliating strike.
**Possible Homebrew Fix:**
**Option 1:** Frenzy has a CHANCE to cause exhaustion. After finishing a frenzied rage, the barbarian must make a Constitution Saving throw of a DC equal to 12, with the DC increasing by 1 every time you use a frenzied rage before taking a long rest. After taking a long rest, the DC resets to 12 again.
Optional: You could modify the 17th level class feature to also give advantage on these con saves, with rolling a natural 20 on the save making you immune from having to make the check until your next long rest.
**Option 2:** Just change how exhaustion is cured. Cures 1 level on a short rest, long rest cures it all.
That's how I might suggest to my table for modifying it.
Even with its flaws, I quite like Berserker. I know frenzy isn’t the most efficient thing, but it is pretty damn satisfying to have three d12+13 attacks as early as level 5.
Having said that, I have house rules at my table that ultimately buff berserker. Since I give my players exhaustion when they hit 0 hit points, I get rid of all exhaustion on a long rest, which makes berserker stronger as a side effect
TBH, that would be how I would homerule the Berserker Barbarian. Give it the ability to lose all levels of exhaustion during a long rest, and once per long rest the ability to lose a single level during a short rest. You could even make that part of a later level's class feature if that's too powerful to have at lv3
i agree with KIN, have you ever seen a frenzy berserker with great weapon mastery?
3d12+30+(3* strength mod) each turn instead of 2d12+20+(2*str mod)
Lowest additional damage on hit with a bonus action attack is 11+strmod, highest is 22+str mod.
Don't even get me started on half orc berserkers or ones that dip into 3rd level fighter champion to have a 1/10 chance with advantage of a crit instead of a 1/20 with advantage.
My personal house rule is frenzying costs Hit Dice, then applies exhaustion if you have no Hit Dice remaining
@@piemaniac9410 Good rule, I would of done it based on constitution modifier, you can do it up to your constitution modifier but anymore and you start taking levels of exhaustion (how I imagine DND would do it had they not chosen to make it so absolutely terrible)
of course on the other hand rage already has limited uses so, why even do that, just make it so you can do it while you rage period.
anyone else take the great weapon master feat for the +10 damage or the bonus action attack if you kill your target/crit?
its basically another way to be a berserker. either Variant human for the feat immediately (which is quite useful early on) or you take it at level 4 and suddenly wiping the floor with whatever you manage to hit (with the -5 to hit when using the +10 damage) I like it cause it feels like I am a raged barbarian throwing people aside and crushing those who get in my way, outside of bosses what reasonable thing that a DM would throw at a Lvl 1 party can withstand a minimum of 14 damage attack? then you get a second cause odds are you killed the first target so you get that bonus action and do it again, the only real downside is the low chance to hit since you are taking that -5 to hit and early on that will make it a +0 if you used the point buy system and put the points where they belong. (16 str 16 con)
I've been having a lot of fun with Berserker, and in practice the exhaustion hasn't been crippling me. You have to go in with the mindset you're using frenzy rage once a day, or in super rare cases twice a day, ideally in the last fight before a long rest if you can anticipate that sorta thing. Also highly recommend to find ways to make your regular rage vs frenzy rage feel really different, they are basically your shonen anime transformations!
Admittedly our setting has been pretty generous with rests, we've not had a lot of encounters that require back to back to back combats, so your mileage can vary per campaign.
Edit: DMs, as an alternate homebrew, consider letting your berserker barbarians upgrade their rage to a frenzy rage as a free action at any point during the rage, not just when they first activate it. Doesnt change much balance wise but it can improve enjoyability a ton
Actually, flavoring Rage as Super Saiyan and Frenzy as Super Saiyan 2 makes it feel a lot more fun! Thanks!
Yeah but it is kind of gimping is the problem, the fact you get only one extra attack for exhaustion levels is dumb compared to I rage so hard I start flying, I rage so hard I can fire elements from my body, I rage so hard I become immune to the concept of death you know?
@@PokeBattlerJaze Narratively those seem more high fantasy, but mechanically they're a lot weaker than an extra attack from a greataxe. You could reflavor the frenzy rage as some sorta magical transformation too if you'd like.
As for the gimping, one level of exhaustion is just disadvantage on skill checks (grappling really). As long as you get a good feel for how your DM paces the game, and try to save it for one of the later more intense fights, then it you should not really be suffering from the exhaustion in any meaningful way.
@@NER124 If he is comparing it to the Storm Herald which I think he is, it is lower then the damage of a greataxe until you hit level 10 to which it is then comparable and only gets higher as you continue to level.
Yeah, most DMs are gonna say "Yeah, ignore the exhaustion because it is stupid." but every once in a while you are gonna have the rule stickler one who allows no homebrew or creativity and you are locked to being punished hardcore, level one is fine, but beyond that, it just gets crippling for again, an extra attack.
Exhaustion has never been a meaningful issue in my play experience. Though I can see it being difficult to navigate in a hardcore dungeon crawl setting with back to back tough fights. I usually end up just frenzy one per in game day.
My third (and favorite) character is a gnome Berserker Barbarian named Yaargh. I absolutely love him and abuse the sh*t out of Frenzy and typically have 1-3 levels of exhaustion on any given day, so much so that it's a running joke when any other character gets even a first level of exhaustion Yaargh will comfort them like a wisened exhaustion vet. I also make the exhaustion play to my favor, by just having him pretty much suck at everything. He's well intentioned and actually pretty smart for a barbarian but he's so tired all the time he ends up goofing up and causing a mess, that and it also explains why he goes into a rage so easily, he's TIRED and CRANKY! This is balanced by the rest of the party shepherding him around various non-combat interactions only for them to let him loose when it comes time to smash something (he's also the party's tank so even when he's not doing a lot of damage he's doing a lot of help). That and spamming the crap out of guidance from our cleric makes him my favorite partially broken character I've ever had to this day.
A homebrew fix I gave to frenzy is, instead of gaining a level of exhaustion, you can't move or take actions for one round once your frenzy ends, similar to the effects of the haste spell.
So either you kill everything or get messed up.
There are more then a few things in 5e that seem to have what feels like a similar problem, it feels like DnD ported to a simpler system rather then its own edition of DnD, with things like Rage and Beastmaster not translating well
Resistance to weapon damage, advantage on Strength Checks and Saves, AND a little extra damage? I say Rage fairs quite well in 5e.
pathfinder is so, so, so infinitely better than 5e. 5e is so overly simplified you can't do anythign interesting without a DM willing to homebrew half the rules. as a DM i have other shit i gotta do with my time, sure i could focus my entire week between sessions on fixing 5e but i got bills and D&D ain't paying them.
@@comyuse9103 I played a long campaign of Pathfinder, and while really fun, it's got it's share of problems. Am enjoying running Pathfinder 2e though, feels life a more refined version a 5e-style game without the glaring power discrepancy issues of 1st edition pathfinder
I told my friend not to take berserker...
overall good results!
he still kinda does not believe me so ill send him this thanks Zee!
Yeah, even some veteran d&d players still see it as the best option cause action economy, but it’s not. The zealot deals more damage, ancestral provides spooky times shenanigans, totem is a proper tank barbarian, and the nature boy is a walking aoe damage zone that can be perma amphibious if he goes storm.
@@thejestor9378 you can also achieve the exact same effect with polearm master...
@@thejestor9378 Actually, no Zealot does less damage, but, honestly, not by a lot.
At lvl 20 its a grand total of like 6 damage difference.
CallMeThey Are you using normal weapons and are you adding in the extra damage it deals out with it’s “smite”. Cause from personal experience, the berserker does less and is overall worse than the zealot.
@@thejestor9378 This is an ideal world where every attack hits and they have max STR and are lvl 20 and are using the exact same weapon.
Yes, their "smite" is included.
Berzerkers out damage them at all levels, but the higher level you get, the gap closes significantly. So, by end game, the difference is super small and doesn't matter.
Originally, I decided to improve the Berserker simply by allowing them to recover an exhaustion on a short rest. I still hold by that, but found that only prevented the Berserker from being trash, it didn't really make it FUN, or at least not fun enough to offset how you're inevitably risking death simply by using your core subclass ability.
To that end, I completely overhauled the berserker with these changes:
At 3rd level, Berserker's Frenzy negates exhaustion penalties for the duration of the Frenzy (regular rage does not) and can be started any time while raging, no action required.
The bonus attack from Frenzy gains extra effects the more exhausted the Berserker is when you start your Frenzy(temporary included) These bonuses only apply to the bonus action attack, which can be taken any order during Berserker's turn while frenzying. Effects are cumulative and stack with other sources;
0) Default Strike - Attack as Bonus Action
1) Crippling Strike - Target loses 10ft movement on hit, until end of Berserker's next turn
2) Forceful Strike - Target is shoved 10ft, or prone
3) Massive Strike - One Extra Damage Dice on hit
4) Critical Strike - Auto-crit on hit
5) Unstoppable Strike - Misses count as non-crit hits
At 6th level, the Berserker gains Mindless Rage. In addition, while in a Frenzy, you can spend a use of Rage in order to reroll a failed Wisdom/Intelligence/Charisma saving throw.
At 10th level, the Berserker gains Intimidating Presence, but you may use Constitution instead of Charisma to determine your save DC. In addition, you may apply this affect to any creature you hit with a melee attack while in a Frenzy. Using an action to extend the effect while in a Frenzy will apply to all creatures in range that are frightened of you.
At 14th level, the Berserker gains Retaliatory Strike. In addition, any melee reaction attack you make while in a Frenzy carries the same bonuses as Frenzy's bonus action attack.
Probably wont be seen on the 3000th+ comment on a 2 year old video, but the video popped up on my feed and I realized how much I had changed since I last commented on this video, which specifically was the prompt for me to make these improvements. Now instead of just gettign rid of the most obvious source of sucking, you're getting a bonus action attack you can gamble with, possibly even prompting you to deliberately take and carry higher levels of exhaustion for the sake of greater power. Anyone who loves high risk=high reward strategies, or even the self-sacrificing narrative should love to play with these mechanics. The higher level abilities are also tweaked to make them actually worth using (intimidating presence had been pretty awful before) but now that the Frenzy attack is powered up, it can actually be worth using the action for other things and relying only on the bonus action attack for a Berserker's damage source.
I'm not 100% certain about how the build interacts with Multiclass. With frenzy able to supply such huge benefits as early as level 3, you may want to tie the maximum Frenzy benefit to 1/3rd the Barbarian level, starting out with Crippling Strike at level 3, getting Forceful Strike at level 6, Massive Strike at level 9, Critical Strike at level 12, and Unstoppable Strike at level 15. It might also be better to switch Unstoppable Strike with Critical Strike. I can't say for certain which one is the bigger game changer.
I hear a lot of people prefer OneD&D's 10 count exhaustion system (which I personally detest) but if you are using that system, access to each bonus should require TWO additional exhaustion penalties, and the ability to recover an exhaustion on a short rest should be allowed no more than twice per long rest.
It should be said at level 5 with extra attack, you can make 3 weapon attacks per round, with your reckless attack feature they can all be at advantage.
Like 3d12 + 3x your strength bonus +3x your rage bonus.
Just based on math alone, you have a 26.49% chance to get at least one critical hit each round with that set up.
Without that extra bonus action attack you only make 2 attacks and that results in only having a 18.55% chance to get one critical per turn.
In simple methods, the likely hood that you get a critical hit in two turns is almost 50/50, slightly leaning in your favor.
We're talking about the difference of nearly 8% more chance to critical each turn, that is cumulative and while dice are random, over time they tend to average out.
Rolling an attack at advantage on average increases critical chance by about 4.75%
Time to take a level dip in Ranger, taking advantage of the alternate feature UA that lets you recover a level of exhaustion on a Short Rest
Still....less than ideal, but functional now. Which with a single level dip, isn't a bad thing.
May be funny though if the party goes to take a long rest and you're like "no, I want to take 3 Short Rests" and then do some wood carving or w/e until the party wakes up
I dunno, if it's a long-running campaign a single-level dip means you don't get that 20th level barb feature which is actually pretty crazy in my opinion
@@Dracas42 Eh...realistically though, how long are you expecting to be level 20 for though?
Ive been level 20 twice so far. Once was for a couple sessions, and the other time was a gimmick campaign where everyone started at 20.
Also while a +4 Str and Con is good, when multiclassing, you can do other synergistic options to compensate.
Barb 6 / Rogue 13 / Ranger 1
- Reliable Talent and expertise skills more than compensate for anything Str offerred skills
- 7d6 Sneak Attack should compensate for loss on Str in terms of damage
This character is less durable than a "pure" barbarian at 20. But remains similar in damage output and beats it on skills by a longshot
With Tasha's having that alt feature more than likely, I think this is the easiest answer. Bar3/Rng1, so you only suffer through a single level of exhaustion at short rest. I'd probably forgo any rogue dips since Berserker wants to attack 3 times a turn and Rogue is a single hit DPR character. 3 Levels of Fighter would probably be stronger, pick up the Champion subclass and go Crit-fishing with 19-20 crits when you can swing for 5 attacks in one turn. So end up at something like Barb 6/Rng1/Ftr3 for a solid ten levels of a normal campaign. Anything past that is gravy.
@@infinitedm5396 I agree fighter champion is another great option for the build. Brute is another easy pick
I still prefer Rogue since Sneak Attack is good with barbarian due to the mix of sneak attack and reckless attack guaranteeing you can use it. And adding in the bolstered skills helps add in utility a barbarian usually lacks
I'm less fond of champion fighter than most, since its really just a 5% chance of gaining a 2d6 damage increase per hit. (Greatsword assumed)
Unless you are getting a critical every turn specifically due to rolling a 19, 3 levels in rogue is superior due to its reliability. Adding 2d6 damage once per turn.
There is certainly a build to capitalize further on champion, picking half-orc using a greataxe, and further levels in barbarian for brutal critical...assuming you get a magic weapon adding extra dice. And it doesnt need to use a finesse weapon and the use of great weapon master can help output when targeting low AC enemies
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But personally, i prefer the reliability of sneak attack damage and the skills and features rogue grants barbarian.
Assassin can be good if you really like your ambushes, soulknife can double up on the skills utility and give you insane accuracy via Soul Blades
@@TheGaboom thats a fair point in regards to damage output. I just felt that action surge is a huge boon for burst damage on critical turns. Maybe go Battlemaster for reliable damage and control effects?
Also that variant ranger lets you use hunters mark as well which is great since it doesnt require concentration or spell slots.
love your energy in this one!! maybe make this a series with some maybe homebrew ways or alternatives of getting around some of these other subpar sub classes and classes ie the beast master
My house rule as DM is berserkers just get their frenzy with no exhaustion, I also add that berserkers if they are out of rage for the day they can still rage but when the rage ends they gain exhaustion.
This seems like an easy fix with GM permission, just remove the exaustion thing and you are free to play a berserker.
I mean, without SOME sort of draw-back, it would stand to become broken without anything penalizing the character for gaining a weapon attack as a bonus action. Just homebrew a different drawback, something much less punishing than a level of exhaustion.
@@sabreman8546 i mean, compared to the other barbarian level 3 features is it really something that needs that much of a downside?
@@sabreman8546 You mean like other Barbarians can just pick up Polearm Master, use a Glaive and basically keep up with Berserkers Damage output (With Zealots even surpassing them at lvl 6 I think) without gaining exhaustion?
@@Janders797 When another barbarian does that, the Berserker one could pick up GWM and go way beyond the other ones. Berserkers bonus action to attack is incredibly powerful when you also count in rage bonus, advantage through reckless and brutal criticals. Honestly I'd just give Frenzy a limit too, like once per short rest and be done with it.
I personally made Frenzy way more interesting. Basically I made Frenzy the Berserker's key ability. Introducing RAGE SPELLS.
Basically these are actions which can only be activated while frenzy is active and it goes like this: Infuse your weapon with rage. Depending on the weapon you get a different effect and drawback. Example: GreatAxe - starting at LV5 you can roll 2d20 to deal a physical damage to a single creature within 20ft. You get 2 dice for each 5th LV. You can't use your action on your next turn. You can only use one rage spell per battle. Bypasses armor class
Definitely made me want to play a geriatric berserker past his prime. Definitely playing this man in a game with altered long rest rules.
Maybe instead of granting you exhaustion, it cuts down the rage time you have left by a percentage, and the frenzy time lessens, the higher your barbarian level?
Sort of going with the theme of burning twice as bright, but half as long.
True, yet I think they saw that rage ends up not ending at all later on which means that can apply to frenzy. So instead of having that berserker punching bolders at later levels for fun. They "balanced" it
@@ExeErdna Later on in the game at the same time that Barbarians get perpetual rages, spellcasters are getting Flesh to Stone, Conjure Fey, Planar Ally, so a Barbarian being able to attack on every bonus action (making it like a monk) should be the default assumption.
What you saying about my berserker barbarian?
He has a fking bow, 2 fking shortswords and a fking axe.
He can fking fight everyone while being inmune to mindcontrolling and resistant to magic thanks to him being a banjora elf.
He is also friend with a ghost that is running his hunter/inn/bar and food place while he is out.
(In the topic of the inn i have to advertice it so plzs dont skip th add)
"Diasmas & Remglan Hunting bar: you hunt it, we cook it!"
"Come here to drink away, gather a group and go hunting! We will provide weapons and if you bring here what you hunted we will make you a discount and offer you a dinner!
If you bring a major beast you not only get a discount on the cooking of said beast. You also get points for the monthly 'best hunter reward' which can go from a night of free drinks to a paid hunting expedition.
Bringing epic monsters count thowards the 'top hunter special price' where you can get a special weapon forged at your liking whith a special engraving + blessing' remember that this top hunter price is once a year!"
I feel like I'd think something I'd do to buff it would be too maybe add the idea of more attacks to a later level option with a new level 3 ability. Something like
*Lvl 3:
You can enter a berserker rage as a free action on your turn while enraged, removing your rage resistances and making your rage bonus damage increase by 1 (additional bonus at every level it goes up naturally)
Lvl?:
*Whenever you make an attack outside of your action in berserker rage you can make 1 additional attack.
Some other options would be like fearing enemies within 5ft of you on dc8+prof+strmod immune for a hour on a success.
I feel like this is not perfect but a is still a better example of the ideas zerk should focus on, breaking hords with your intimidating presence as you make constant attacks with consistent and potent options for opportunity attacks as you foes try to flee or reposition. Basically becoming a 15ft cube of danger enemies must avoid but at the cost of becoming even less safe than standard barbs.
Honestly though, as a player whose first character was a Berserker Barbarian.... i enjoyed the immunity to charm and fear, where i got to flip the middle finger to my DM whenever he tried to incapacitate the melee idiot with spells. Lightning from chest is cool, but its also really nice for newer players not to be frustrated when all they can do is hit something with a hammer and theyre forced to run away... just my two cents though.
Plus its fun to use frenzy as a measure of last resort, dmg may be low but atleast its not turned on the party! :D
Yea but as a berserker if u only use it as a last resort then all the time that u don’t use it you’ll be playing a nerfed Barbarian. Just go any other subclass and u don’t have to be as careful when to use your abilities and berserker doesn’t even add much. It’s too easy to get a bonus attack so the bonus attack from frenzy just sucks (u can do as much dmg as any other subclass and even more if your a zealot). The only nice ability they get is the immunity to fear and charm. Everything else sucks. Tho even then if u have a Paladin (with the auras) or someone else in the party has calm emotions (aka what me and my friend call wet blanket 😂) then even that ability becomes kinda meh.