I think Arnold could have been a good Mr. Freeze if he played him like Mr. Freeze. Cold, calous, mostly emotionless and been completely serious. And no puns.
Adam Freddo I don’t know, Knightfall Bane isn’t an emotionless terminator, he’s a ruthless and cunning warrior. I love Arnie but Bane needs to be emotive.
Just a fun fact: Thanks to CW's Crisis On Infinite Earths Aftermath show with Kevin Smith its revealed that the Burton films and the Schumaker films exist in separate universes
That's odd, considering that at the beginning of Batman Forever Chase Meridian says to Bruce "or do I need skin tight vinyl and a whip?" That refers to Catwoman who was in the previous movie. If they say that, then so be it
@@kylecampbell565 I only say it's odd because the line I quoted stuck out to me when I saw first saw it. Plus Alfred and Gordon are played by the same actors for all 4 movies. If it's considered not canon, then fine. It just comes across like a way to save the first 2 movies. That's just my personal opinion.
Keep in mind that Joel actually wanted to make a darker Batman movie than the version that was released considering the deleted scenes, the movie comic, the original longer run time and images of scenes that didn’t make the cut Joel had a darker version for Batman Forever in mind but was changed due to studio demands. Batman and Robin was made to sell toys
Fun fact: Bane in Batman And Robin was portrayed by professional bodybuilder and professional wrestler Robert Swenson. Who briefly worked in World Championship Wrestling as "The Ultimate Solution". Before that his ring name was actually "The Final Solution" which had to be changed due to the inept reference it made to Nazi Germany, and the extermination of the Jews.
Worse yet, WWE wanted to do a Nazi gimmick in 2004 and were going to have his manager be Paul Heyman - who is not only Jewish, but the son of a Holocaust survivor!
I understand that, but in German-language broadcasts of pro wrestling they won't use the German equivalent of "Elimination Chamber" because it sounds too much like "gas chamber." I honestly never thought of that at all. But then, I'm not German.
This may be just me but the visual look of Forever, for 1995, still holds up well...Its over the top but it is beautiful in its own strange 'neon lighted 90s' way...admittedly the story of Forever leaves a bit to be desired.
The neon lighted aesthetic could’ve honestly worked wonders for a part of Neo Gotham in a potential live-action ‘Batman Beyond’ film, and while I do find the look of it generally pleasing, as J said himself in the video I just can’t see it as the same place and continuity of the Tim Burton Duology, as much as ‘Batman Forever’ wants to convince the audience it does.
I thought Batman Forever was actually pretty good, not as good as 89, or maybe even returns, but I still liked it enough. Batman and Robin on the otherhand.....
Honestly if you want a campy sort of batman series where bats is still serious, I'd recommend watching The Brave and the Bold! Fantastic cartoon, lots of really good episodes and characters, and just a huge love letter to the silver age! If you end up watching it, consider doing a video on the series!
George Clooney's biggest regret as an actor is the fact that they put him in a Bat Costume with bat nipples and have him say some stupid one-liners.. "This is why Superman Works alone"..... SMH
Val Kilmer is underrated as Batman. I thought he was a good Batman and a great Bruce Wayne. I think if the script was better Val would be more fondly remembered.
Whatever the movie's faults I think it's kind of a myth that this killed the comic book movie. In 1997, really there wasn't a successful tradition of comic book blockbusters, the Batman series is all there was. The Superman series was popular but had died, Dick Tracy was a moderate hit but not successful enough to start a franchise, everything else in recent memory was more or less a flop. Later that summer Spawn was a moderate hit, relative to its budget and somewhat niche appeal, as was Blade the following year. Then in the early 00s X-Men and especially Spider-Man launched the blockbuster superhero climate as we know it today. So I don't think this film had that big an impact outside of Warner Bros and the Batman franchise.
Those movies WERE successful, but that success just didn't translate to the comics themselves. Appearing in DICK TRACY made Madonna huge (and sure, she was huge before, but after DICK TRACY it seemed like she was everywhere) and Jim Carrey wouldn't have become as major a star as he had without THE MASK. THE CROW, too, is a certified cult classic, and deservedly so, but it owes much less to the original comic than people think. Back then the attitude in Hollywood was basically "Most people don't read comic books, but even so they've grown up with Superman and Batman and adore those heroes, so a comic book movie should still sell."
Batman Forever was also the third highest grossing movie of the year when it was released...it was nominated for three Oscars. Only Batman and Robin really bombed, and in 1998 we got Blade..and in 2000 the first X Men movie came out...so it didn’t kill the genre at all. Like you said, Batman was really the only active superhero franchise since the phantom and the shadow did not work.
@@customsfornewbs9067 You're right, I did! By 97 they were a distant memory to most of the public (despite having a new show on TV), but they would have the first of several comebacks a few years later and ultimately turn out to be far more enduring than anyone could have predicted.
I don’t know if you saw but Val Kilmer was announced to be at DC Fandome. I know it’s unlikely but I’m hoping they announce a Batman Forever Schumacher Cut.
I don't mean to dampen the mood, but I think that's pretty unlikely. Interest in Snyder's work is relatively current and widespread in the DC fandom, which cant be said for Schumacher. Granted, the Snyder JL cut is uncharted territory, but I'd be much more inclined to think releases of different cuts for older properties is possibly going to be a plausible trend only if another example is confirmed. One instance isn't a pattern after all.
You know, looking back on it, as campy and goofy as the Schumacher Batman films were, it reminded me of the equally campy 60’s Batman series with Adam West. I think Schumacher probably watched and enjoyed 60s Batman, and wanted to pay homage by making a 90s version of it. That’s how I see it. I kinda watch Batman Forever and Batman & Robin for it’s cheesiness and corny one liners. Yeah it’s bad, but in a so bad it’s laughably good kinda way.
I think more specifically that Schumacher was taking inspiration from some of the same comics as the 60s series. The Batman comics of the 40s through the 70s have more in common with Schumacher's films.
exactly! I still appreciate them for that. even though putting those two right after Burton's monumental entries and have us pretend they were somehow the same continuity was definitely the wrong move. also they cut most of the good stuff Schumacher shot and made a literal feature-length toy commercial. but still, they're enjoyable in their own right. just don't try and compare them to the likes of the Nolan trilogy
@@sunsetman22 I don't know, I don't really see it as much different as the shift in tone from 1939 Batman to the comics becoming much more kid friendly with Robin's introduction in 1940.
@@Ian-hj4yt I've read it. Let me clarify by saying that I'm aware that 1940 wasn't a switch being flipped from dark to campy, but Robin's introduction started a fairly rapid shift to a more high adventure kid friendly tone. In any case, my original point is that Schumacher took inspiration from those golden age stories- combining the adventurous tone with darker elements. Both villains in Forever are unrepentant murderers, Bruce reflects heavily on the trauma of his parent's deaths, and Robin wants to kill Two-Face.
I bet there's an alternative universe out there where the Batman and Robin film is praised, and the Nolan trilogy is replaced with a string of Clooney, nipple suited Batman movies. 😂 I'm grateful Batman and Robin was God awful, because I doubt we would've gotten the Nolan trilogy otherwise.
As for Batman Returns, contrary to popular opinion and Batman and Robin (which is hilariously bad), Batman Returns is just painful because it didn’t take a woman raping Batman seriously. Nicole Kidman, Val Kilmer and the rest of the BR cast deserve so much better than this.
2:00 I think an episode of Kirby Right Back at Ya! Summed up a producer’s role the best King Dedede: “I’m the most Important person in this person in this joint! I’m the producer!” Citizen 1: What’s a producer? Citizen 2: a producer doesn’t do anything Escargoon: Hmm... they’ve got you there sire (In all seriousness from what I can tell they help fund the film and reap a percentage of the profits)
Let fanboys be fanboys - we live in the era of prequel memes and meta humour, the one liners and things like the "bat credit card" should be considered comedy gold.
On paper, Batman & Robin could have been great. You had George Clooney as Batman, who was essentially a real life millionaire playboy Bruce Wayne, Uma Thurman as Poision Ivy, who everyone was drooling over after her seductive performance in Pulp Fiction, and Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze, who was iconic playing a stone cold killing machine AKA The Terminator. It's too bad they took it in a goofy direction instead of a serious one.
Why did you compare Batman and Robin to Batman Returns by saying they're both examples of the director going "all in?" Studio interference and toy companies were a lot more of the problem than Schumacher.
Looking at the campy and overly goofy tone of the Schumacher movies, and the criticism adaptations such as the Burton movies and specially the DCEU had for it's dark tone, it represents the big problem with most batman adaptations (live action ones) have : They lack a balance of tone. The producers either try to make the movie way to dark to the point it becomes either to depressing (like the DCEU) and scary for little kids (like the burton movies) or becomes to silly to the point that nobody takes the movie nor the characters seriously (like the Schumacher movies) I'm not saying that Batman shouldn't be dark or deal with serious themes, but I don't think it should be done at the expense of the fun elemets of the comic books (the colorful villains, the gadgets, funny characters). Batman TAS is the best exemple of this. It had dark, mature moments and explored very complex and serious themes, but also had comic book elements to it and likable and funny characters who help give a little of levity to the show and make it appeal to a larger audience.
@@whodatninja439 Batman Begins is the definitive Batman film imo. It holds up significantly well today while The Dark Knight has shown a lot of ware. The latter is still a culturally more significant film with the themes it explores, but it isn't as tight, well acted (outside Heath Ledger) or as sure of itself as the former. It's attempts at meshing realism and comic book type action clash as well, and it's hard to believe a man so hell bent on not killing anyone would willingly fire rockets at occupied buidings and flip over a semi truck without hesitation. Batman Begins embraces its source material fully, not to say it does not deviate from story beats (it significantly does) but it feels like a true love letter to it in execution.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Batman begins is indeed the best Batman film to date. BvS is my favourite but it's not a purely Batman film. And it doesn't flesh out Gotham like Begins does. I do believe though that next year it will be surpassed
I can’t wait fo you to cover the genre wide recovery that happened with Blade 1998, that led to the boom of the 2000s. When that Spider-Man Raimi trilogy video releases, I’ll be all over that. Keep up the good work!
Schumacher apologized for not pushing back against essentially making a toy commercial. That wasn't his vision. Rian Johnson doesn't need to apologize, because he stayed true to his vision, while mirroring themes and motifs set up by Lucas and the original trilogy screenwriters.
They did butcher Batman God Rest Joe Schumacher if you seen his film falling down you can see that damn good director and he's constantly apologized for Batman and Robin which is a good thing
@@luckykennedy7364 And way better man than Raja Gosnell and Brett Ratner, seriously, some fool in a video went his way in comparing him to those two hacks
Superman IV = ridiculous script which was made worse by budget cuts in a compromised production. Batman & Robin = Greedy studio executives took full control and the disaster is on the screen.
Come on man, Schumacher's Gotham city is freaking amazing. It looks super stylized and I love how colourful it is. It's better than having *NEW YORK* or *CITY THAT LOOKS LIKE THE DARK KNIGHT'S GOTHAM*. I don't get why comic fans don't like when movies are like comic books.
Because certain shots just look terrible. You can tell it's a toy set and not very convincing. He ought to have used some actual building shots and had CGI them or designed the sets better to look more realistic.
I still love Batman Forever and I STILL call for #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut. As for Batman & Robin...it gave us The Dark Knight Trilogy. It also isn't as bad as most movies made nowadays that utterly go out of their way to disrespect the fans rather than tell a good story. As flawed as Batman & Robin was, it's campy-ness makes it a popcorn flick that you turn your brain off on and still have a good time watching.
The writers knew Arnold was going to be Mr Freeze before they started the script, and this really shows. Mr Freeze just says stuff they wanted to hear Arnold say.
After all these years I finally read some background on this movie and Forever, so I know longer blame Schumacher for these films sucking... entirely. Studios sure have a habit of screwing a director's original vision over, I swear.
Tim Burton, in an interview from 1995, that, "as a producer, I had absolutely no input into the "Batman Forver" movie. Truthfully, I couldn't tell you what a "producer" does, as I had nothing to do with that film." So much for having your name on a project.
I disagree, It saved it, after these films we got back to darker, grounded takes on the genre with batman begins followed up by iron man. We now knew where the line was so it was onwards and upwards from there
Before "Crisis on Infinite Earths" in the Arrowverse confirmed that the two films take place in separate continuities, I heard a theory that I (still) quite like: Between the totally different aesthetic of Gotham City, the campier vibe, and recasting of Harvey Dent from Billy Dee Williams to Tommy Lee Jones… the Schumacher films are actually films set *in* the Burton universe-specifically, a future after Batman and his chronicles have long passed; there's detailed records of him, his allies, and his rogue's gallery; and executives decided to make films loosely based on the man, the myth, and the legend. Ya have to admit, it would explain *a lot* of things. Fantastic review, and I hope that one day, you choose to continue this series.
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it agin. The live action Batman movies treated it more like a cartoon than the actual cartoon which was mature and well written.
There was plenty of cartooniness in the animated series. However, the films and the animated series are all drawing from different eras of the comics, which accounts for the differences in tone.
If all these 90s Batman movies had come out at this day and age there’s a possibility we could have had another #releasethesnydercut situation with people demanding to see Tim Burton’s original vision for Batman Forever and onwards
I live in India. I never got to read the comics. My first exposure of batman was the animated series. It cemented the image of batman in my mind. I started loving batman after that. Imagine the level of disappointment on my face when i first watched joel's batman movies. It ruined batman for me until Christopher nolan made batman begins and my love finally came back.
What also separates these films from the burton ones is that in forever batman still doesn't know who killed his parents and we get the idea that two face did, when in 89 it is clear that batman realizes that it was joker
Also, Poison Ivy unplugs Nora's stasis chamber trying to kill her but tells Freeze Batman killed her. Batman then reveals that Ivy tried to kill Nora but Batman finds her, restores her and bargains with Freeze to transfer her to his cell in Arkham to continue researching for a full cure and in exchange he gives him the cure for the diseases first stage which Alfred has. Some think, lazy writing, I think hopeful. And in Lego Batman Movie they did have a lego version of the Billy Dee Williams Two-Face.
That Mac Donalds Super Hero Commercial made my happy i was born in 2003 But then i remembered being hyped to get some promotional toys from a cereal when The Dark Knight came out
This is the same universe as the two Burton films, you can pretend that it isn't all you want but it is. Hingle is still Gordon and Gough is still Alfred and they even reference the first film in Batman Forever.
@@JsReviews Yes it's a radically different film that the first two, much like how For Your Eyes Only was radically different (in a good way) from Moonraker.
Earlier in the movie Alfred: "I don't want my niece to ride something as dangerous as a motorcycle" Dying ill Alfred an hour later: "I tailored a suit that has the shape of your cups, get into dangerous situations, you have my approval"
It's eerie how similar the Reeves Superman series and the batman quadrilogy are. 1st movie Big Office Smash Hit that earnestly told the stories of their respective Characters. 2nd Movie a dip in quality but still enjoyable, however containing tons of drama behind it that would influence the next film. 3rd Movie a more light hearted approach to the series that was not as well received (forever is underrated in my opinion) And lastly the 4th movie which killed the character's reputation, the reputation of the superhero genre and they wouldn't return until the early 2000's
I actually liked the Batmobile from Batman Forever. Joel said it was inspired by H R Giger which was a nod to some of the darker ideas for Batman. Kinda wish they'd gone a little further with the design
R.I.P. Joel Schumacher. Honestly i like batman forever, B&R? not so much its VERY BAD but i can enjoy it as a "so bad its good" thing great video dude. loving this series
As ridiculous as Batman Forever was, I actually enjoyed the film quite a bit. But the one thing I find absolutely silly was the security guard at the beginning of the film. I get equal opportunity employment but come on, it's a bank, in Gotham City! That's not a position for the weak or faint of heart.
Billy Dee Williams got to be Two-Face in The LEGO Batman Movie which did his Harvey Dent justice. Also irony of Two-Face being a character based on justice and morality and they got the original Harvey Dent actor. Also did you know that the animated film Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero was gonna be a tie in movie with Batman & Robin since they both had practically the same plot but because of Batman & Robin's poor receiving reviews and criticisms, the DCAU animated film was delayed to 1998 rather than 1997 to split itself from that universe. Batman & Robin and Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero could have tied together the DCAU to the Burton/Schumacher universe but no. And I think I like it that way. Plus had it did, how would Joker, Penguin, Two-Face, and even Catwoman be alive?
I would recommend two videos from youtuber Channel Awesome titled "What if Harvey Dent Was in Batman Returns" and "What if Tim Burton Did Batman Forever". He goes into detail how certain plot points in Batman Returns were removed by Studio interference like how Billy Dee was supposed to be in Returns but had his contract bought out and he was looking forward to playing Two-Face and the original script would have set that up better.
Batman and Robin is not the worst superhero movie ever. Guys you think this is the worst? Oh please, we have been given far worse over the years. I wouldn't even put in the top ten yet alone the top twenty.
Great work! I used to love this movies when I was a kid, had them all on VHS and played them all the time. Since then I noticed the different tonality of Burton and Schumacher and was inclined for the first two entries. Nevertheless, there is something I like about the Schumacher movies: Gotham. Don't get me wrong, I hate the neon-nightmare, but those giant statues interlocking with the buildings, bridges everywhere, I made it look surreal and I loved it.
The continuity issue between Burton's films and Schumacher's is to me, no greater than the shift between Batman's introduction in 1939, and the massive shift that occurred when Robin was introduced in 1940. It goes from shadowy pulp to chromatic high adventure relatively quick. In fact, part of the reason I love FOREVER is because of it's colorful golden age vibe- which includes 2 dimensional cackling supervillains including Two-Face's early appearances.
@@Ian-hj4yt that's probably the darkest story that entire year, and mainly just for plot elements, not tone. The next several issues would see an increase in cheesy banter between the dynamic duo, Batman smiling, and a tone shifting quickly from noir to one closer to the Douglas Fairbanks films that were all the rage with Finger and the other young guys behind the books.
@@Ian-hj4yt that's fine I guess. But much of this isn't even a matter of opinion. Unfortunately, I can't post scans of pages and covers, but what I'm talking about is evident to anyone that looks into it.
0:48 I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Apology accepted, Mr. Schumacher. Thank you for your humility. I wish other Hollywood “creatives” would follow your example.
7:16 I laughed like a stupid 12 yrs old that i had to download the video, trim the whole thing just to watch this cheeky smile of Batman while seinfield plays on the background
So from what I've read, 'Batman Continues' was supposed to be a third Batman film directed by Tim Burton with Michael Keaton returning. Would've been nice seeing MK end his role in a Batman trilogy of films.
I can see why Batman and Robin is despise, but to be honest, Forever gets way too much hate. Yeah there were some confusing changes but it was pretty enjoyable.
I think Clooney NAILED Bruce Wayne where anyone who doesn’t know he’s Batman is present. Bruce should present the image that he is a dumb sexy idiot without any trauma. I think the idea of Batman disguising himself as Bruce Wayne, billionaire playboy, rather than the other way round, is something that hasn’t really been explored in the films But yeah there should definitely be some contrast
As bad as ‘Superman III’ and ‘Superman IV: The Quest For Peace’ were for their bad scripts and production values, at the very least you could say they were actually films with honest-to-god stories and events that logically went from Point A to B, not as nauseating 2-hour long toy commercials. Here’s my rankings of the original Batman and Superman Quadrilogies together from best to worst: 1. Batman (1989) 2. Superman (1978) 3. Batman Returns 4. Superman II 5. Batman Forever 6. Superman IV: The Quest For Peace 7. Superman III 8. Batman & Robin
You know after listening to a commentary on Batman Forever from another youtube channel I've kinda come to a similar conclusion they did when it comes to Carrey's Riddler performance. Anybody remember Frank Gorshin's Riddler from 60's Batman where he had a near identical vibe to that era's Joker? High energy, crazed laughter? Carrey's Riddler almost feels like that but cranked up in silliness. Thoughts? I don't think this is that great of a Riddler, but that angle seems to fit better than comparing it to his more familiar portrayals (DCAU, Arkham series, etc.)
Blade wasn't a traditional 'comic book movie' in the sense of what Jon Doe movie goer would think of, it was just another black leather action movie from the 90's/early 2000s. It did cause a resession of the genre until Spiderman came in to redefine things a good few years later.
Batman Forever isn't the best Batman film by any stretch, but it is a sound film in a bubble. It does explore its themes rather well, albeit with that quarky over the top dark tone Shumacher loves, and does give decent insight into Bruce Wayne's psyche. I find it ironic that Jim Carrey's Riddler is basically Jim Carrey's Robotnik, both films deviating from the source material greatly, yet the former is despised while the latter is praised. Honestly, neither performance is as it should be - they are equal in my eyes - but they also have the Jim Carrey charm that makes you at least not want to hate it. Batman & Robin however... yeah just a complete memefest no matter how you look at it.
I think Arnold could have been a good Mr. Freeze if he played him like Mr. Freeze.
Cold, calous, mostly emotionless and been completely serious. And no puns.
Yeah, his portrayal wasn’t that nICE
Hehe
If anything, with batman knightfall in mind and if Arnold played it with a "terminator" like demeanor, he could have been a great Bane.
You say "like Mr Freeze", but the character had been around for decades before that cold, callous version came along.
... in other words : play him more as the terminator in 1984 but with few dailoge added
Adam Freddo I don’t know, Knightfall Bane isn’t an emotionless terminator, he’s a ruthless and cunning warrior. I love Arnie but Bane needs to be emotive.
Just a fun fact:
Thanks to CW's Crisis On Infinite Earths Aftermath show with Kevin Smith its revealed that the Burton films and the Schumaker films exist in separate universes
Wow that’s cool
That's odd, considering that at the beginning of Batman Forever Chase Meridian says to Bruce "or do I need skin tight vinyl and a whip?" That refers to Catwoman who was in the previous movie. If they say that, then so be it
@@avace917
Its been confirmed to be now known as Earth 97 while the Tim Burton movies are Earth 89
avace917 just because Returns and Forever aren’t considered the same continuity that doesn’t mean similar events transpired
@@kylecampbell565 I only say it's odd because the line I quoted stuck out to me when I saw first saw it. Plus Alfred and Gordon are played by the same actors for all 4 movies. If it's considered not canon, then fine. It just comes across like a way to save the first 2 movies. That's just my personal opinion.
Keep in mind that Joel actually wanted to make a darker Batman movie than the version that was released considering the deleted scenes, the movie comic, the original longer run time and images of scenes that didn’t make the cut
Joel had a darker version for Batman Forever in mind but was changed due to studio demands.
Batman and Robin was made to sell toys
I still have hope of see the original Cut of Batman Forever. Maybe soon...
i dont see how it could be any darker when it has loony tunes characters as villains
Who Dat Ninja
That might have been a due to some rewrites cutting out a darker looking Two-Face and some creepy scenes with Riddler
Daimon Atkins then it's a completely alternate cut and not just extended
Who Dat Ninja
You never know
Fun fact: Bane in Batman And Robin was portrayed by professional bodybuilder and professional wrestler Robert Swenson. Who briefly worked in World Championship Wrestling as "The Ultimate Solution".
Before that his ring name was actually "The Final Solution" which had to be changed due to the inept reference it made to Nazi Germany, and the extermination of the Jews.
It always comes back to the fucking nazis, doesn’t it?
Yeah he was in the group of what? 100 wrestlers that Hogan and savage went over in that triple cage cause Hogan brother
Worse yet, WWE wanted to do a Nazi gimmick in 2004 and were going to have his manager be Paul Heyman - who is not only Jewish, but the son of a Holocaust survivor!
I understand that, but in German-language broadcasts of pro wrestling they won't use the German equivalent of "Elimination Chamber" because it sounds too much like "gas chamber." I honestly never thought of that at all. But then, I'm not German.
SeasideDetective2 that is such an awful idea
This may be just me but the visual look of Forever, for 1995, still holds up well...Its over the top but it is beautiful in its own strange 'neon lighted 90s' way...admittedly the story of Forever leaves a bit to be desired.
Love the look of the movie..with the riddler's lair.. dark and campy.. love this movie when i was a child and still love it
The neon lighted aesthetic could’ve honestly worked wonders for a part of Neo Gotham in a potential live-action ‘Batman Beyond’ film, and while I do find the look of it generally pleasing, as J said himself in the video I just can’t see it as the same place and continuity of the Tim Burton Duology, as much as ‘Batman Forever’ wants to convince the audience it does.
I thought Batman Forever was actually pretty good, not as good as 89, or maybe even returns, but I still liked it enough.
Batman and Robin on the otherhand.....
Returns
89
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Forever
Batman & Robin
A Dark Knight Object Related to Currency!!?
(8-12-2021) A Bat Credit Card!!?
Batman Forever may have its issues, but I can’t bring myself to hate it. Batman & Robin on the other hand was absolute garbage.
I think it’s WAY better than 89.
You cant deny that Batman Forever has one of the best movie soundtracks
Seal and U2.
I still like Danny Elfman's music better.
I love the tune that plays, when Ivy takes off the gorilla costume!
@@suburbiad3vil I still like Prince’s music better
@@HonerableG facts
Honestly if you want a campy sort of batman series where bats is still serious, I'd recommend watching The Brave and the Bold! Fantastic cartoon, lots of really good episodes and characters, and just a huge love letter to the silver age! If you end up watching it, consider doing a video on the series!
Yeah, that show is essentially "campy Batman" done right.
That series is criminally underrated.
George Clooney's biggest regret as an actor is the fact that they put him in a Bat Costume with bat nipples and have him say some stupid one-liners..
"This is why Superman Works alone"..... SMH
I also read he makes sure to have a Batman and Robin poster in his bedroom to remind himself why to never take a role solely for money
@Fred Anthony I agree
Val Kilmer is underrated as Batman. I thought he was a good Batman and a great Bruce Wayne. I think if the script was better Val would be more fondly remembered.
Whatever the movie's faults I think it's kind of a myth that this killed the comic book movie. In 1997, really there wasn't a successful tradition of comic book blockbusters, the Batman series is all there was. The Superman series was popular but had died, Dick Tracy was a moderate hit but not successful enough to start a franchise, everything else in recent memory was more or less a flop. Later that summer Spawn was a moderate hit, relative to its budget and somewhat niche appeal, as was Blade the following year. Then in the early 00s X-Men and especially Spider-Man launched the blockbuster superhero climate as we know it today. So I don't think this film had that big an impact outside of Warner Bros and the Batman franchise.
It put it on a short hiatus at best.
Those movies WERE successful, but that success just didn't translate to the comics themselves. Appearing in DICK TRACY made Madonna huge (and sure, she was huge before, but after DICK TRACY it seemed like she was everywhere) and Jim Carrey wouldn't have become as major a star as he had without THE MASK. THE CROW, too, is a certified cult classic, and deservedly so, but it owes much less to the original comic than people think. Back then the attitude in Hollywood was basically "Most people don't read comic books, but even so they've grown up with Superman and Batman and adore those heroes, so a comic book movie should still sell."
Batman Forever was also the third highest grossing movie of the year when it was released...it was nominated for three Oscars. Only Batman and Robin really bombed, and in 1998 we got Blade..and in 2000 the first X Men movie came out...so it didn’t kill the genre at all. Like you said, Batman was really the only active superhero franchise since the phantom and the shadow did not work.
You forgot tmnt
@@customsfornewbs9067 You're right, I did! By 97 they were a distant memory to most of the public (despite having a new show on TV), but they would have the first of several comebacks a few years later and ultimately turn out to be far more enduring than anyone could have predicted.
I don’t know if you saw but Val Kilmer was announced to be at DC Fandome. I know it’s unlikely but I’m hoping they announce a Batman Forever Schumacher Cut.
But...Schumacher already did Batman Forever.
Poor Val Kilmer, the man who was the Batman. He got throat cancer :(
Who Dat Ninja he did not appear. Unless they are pushing his appearance until the September 12th show
I don't mean to dampen the mood, but I think that's pretty unlikely. Interest in Snyder's work is relatively current and widespread in the DC fandom, which cant be said for Schumacher.
Granted, the Snyder JL cut is uncharted territory, but I'd be much more inclined to think releases of different cuts for older properties is possibly going to be a plausible trend only if another example is confirmed. One instance isn't a pattern after all.
For real?
You know, looking back on it, as campy and goofy as the Schumacher Batman films were, it reminded me of the equally campy 60’s Batman series with Adam West. I think Schumacher probably watched and enjoyed 60s Batman, and wanted to pay homage by making a 90s version of it. That’s how I see it.
I kinda watch Batman Forever and Batman & Robin for it’s cheesiness and corny one liners. Yeah it’s bad, but in a so bad it’s laughably good kinda way.
I think more specifically that Schumacher was taking inspiration from some of the same comics as the 60s series. The Batman comics of the 40s through the 70s have more in common with Schumacher's films.
exactly! I still appreciate them for that. even though putting those two right after Burton's monumental entries and have us pretend they were somehow the same continuity was definitely the wrong move.
also they cut most of the good stuff Schumacher shot and made a literal feature-length toy commercial. but still, they're enjoyable in their own right. just don't try and compare them to the likes of the Nolan trilogy
@@sunsetman22 I don't know, I don't really see it as much different as the shift in tone from 1939 Batman to the comics becoming much more kid friendly with Robin's introduction in 1940.
@@weirdwest1702 The comics were still dark in 1940, read The Joker's first appearence.
@@Ian-hj4yt I've read it. Let me clarify by saying that I'm aware that 1940 wasn't a switch being flipped from dark to campy, but Robin's introduction started a fairly rapid shift to a more high adventure kid friendly tone.
In any case, my original point is that Schumacher took inspiration from those golden age stories- combining the adventurous tone with darker elements. Both villains in Forever are unrepentant murderers, Bruce reflects heavily on the trauma of his parent's deaths, and Robin wants to kill Two-Face.
I bet there's an alternative universe out there where the Batman and Robin film is praised, and the Nolan trilogy is replaced with a string of Clooney, nipple suited Batman movies. 😂 I'm grateful Batman and Robin was God awful, because I doubt we would've gotten the Nolan trilogy otherwise.
As for Batman Returns, contrary to popular opinion and Batman and Robin (which is hilariously bad), Batman Returns is just painful because it didn’t take a woman raping Batman seriously. Nicole Kidman, Val Kilmer and the rest of the BR cast deserve so much better than this.
😂😂😂😂 Brilliant batman is batman at least Clooney was still batman
J: "What have I done to deserve this fate?"
Me: Um... you started this retrospective.
Could be worse...
He could be forced to re-watch 'I've Got Batman in my Basement' on a continuous loop
2:00 I think an episode of Kirby Right Back at Ya! Summed up a producer’s role the best
King Dedede: “I’m the most Important person in this person in this joint! I’m the producer!”
Citizen 1: What’s a producer?
Citizen 2: a producer doesn’t do anything
Escargoon: Hmm... they’ve got you there sire
(In all seriousness from what I can tell they help fund the film and reap a percentage of the profits)
Let fanboys be fanboys - we live in the era of prequel memes and meta humour, the one liners and things like the "bat credit card" should be considered comedy gold.
It is now. It wasn't then
After BATMAN AND ROBIN, the world FORGOT that BATMAN FOREVER was a HUGE smash hit both critically and commercially.
On paper, Batman & Robin could have been great. You had George Clooney as Batman, who was essentially a real life millionaire playboy Bruce Wayne, Uma Thurman as Poision Ivy, who everyone was drooling over after her seductive performance in Pulp Fiction, and Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze, who was iconic playing a stone cold killing machine AKA The Terminator. It's too bad they took it in a goofy direction instead of a serious one.
Why did you compare Batman and Robin to Batman Returns by saying they're both examples of the director going "all in?" Studio interference and toy companies were a lot more of the problem than Schumacher.
Definitely
Batman Returns is a masterpiece
Batman Forever was my childhood lol. Val Kilmer is my favorite Bruce Wayne. Better looking than Michael Keaton and not as goofy as George Clooney.
Same. I loved Forever as a kid.
I like that line in BvS. Still today it makes me smile when see it
Always gets me
I think Batman Forever and Batman and Robin are a lot of fun, but to each their own.
Love Forever, can't do B&R, I think he was a lil harsh on Forever
I feel embarrassed I was originally scared of Bane in Batman and Robin when I was little
You weren't the only one lol
Fun fact the wrestler who played bane died within months of B&R's release
Not as bad as being scared of Kangaroo Jack
@@kingpin1331 Oof.
@@kylecampbell565 wtf
Batman Forever is very good when you see it as a standalone Batman Movie and not as a continuation to the previous two.
Looking at the campy and overly goofy tone of the Schumacher movies, and the criticism adaptations such as the Burton movies and specially the DCEU had for it's dark tone, it represents the big problem with most batman adaptations (live action ones) have : They lack a balance of tone. The producers either try to make the movie way to dark to the point it becomes either to depressing (like the DCEU) and scary for little kids (like the burton movies) or becomes to silly to the point that nobody takes the movie nor the characters seriously (like the Schumacher movies)
I'm not saying that Batman shouldn't be dark or deal with serious themes, but I don't think it should be done at the expense of the fun elemets of the comic books (the colorful villains, the gadgets, funny characters). Batman TAS is the best exemple of this. It had dark, mature moments and explored very complex and serious themes, but also had comic book elements to it and likable and funny characters who help give a little of levity to the show and make it appeal to a larger audience.
I don't think the DCEU is too depressing. I blame the critics who expected an MCU 2.0.
The Nolan trilogy and Burton films still reign supreme.
@@whodatninja439 Batman Begins is the definitive Batman film imo. It holds up significantly well today while The Dark Knight has shown a lot of ware. The latter is still a culturally more significant film with the themes it explores, but it isn't as tight, well acted (outside Heath Ledger) or as sure of itself as the former. It's attempts at meshing realism and comic book type action clash as well, and it's hard to believe a man so hell bent on not killing anyone would willingly fire rockets at occupied buidings and flip over a semi truck without hesitation. Batman Begins embraces its source material fully, not to say it does not deviate from story beats (it significantly does) but it feels like a true love letter to it in execution.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Batman begins is indeed the best Batman film to date. BvS is my favourite but it's not a purely Batman film. And it doesn't flesh out Gotham like Begins does.
I do believe though that next year it will be surpassed
@Alexandre Frauches what is your opinion on the tone of the Nolan films? Were they not balanced?
I can’t wait fo you to cover the genre wide recovery that happened with Blade 1998, that led to the boom of the 2000s. When that Spider-Man Raimi trilogy video releases, I’ll be all over that. Keep up the good work!
At least Joel Schumacher apologized to the fans unlike Rian Johnson who completely disrespected the fans
And Neil Druckman
@@whodatninja439 don't group Rian Johnson in the same camp as Neill Druckmann
Schumacher apologized for not pushing back against essentially making a toy commercial. That wasn't his vision. Rian Johnson doesn't need to apologize, because he stayed true to his vision, while mirroring themes and motifs set up by Lucas and the original trilogy screenwriters.
Rian Johnson apologized by NOT making RISE OF SKYWALKER.
I NEED THE MUSIC IN THIS VIDEO, IT'S SO GOOOOODDDDDDDDDDD!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Not to be pushy, but I think a season by season Gotham retrospective would be sick
I second that!
Tim Burton was producer in name only. He himself was not there for Batman Forever's production when Joel Schumacher came on board.
15:43 Chris O’ Donnell giving his best George Lucas impression
They did butcher Batman God Rest Joe Schumacher if you seen his film falling down you can see that damn good director and he's constantly apologized for Batman and Robin which is a good thing
@Drive Check. Joel Schumacher was a way better man than Rian Johnson
@@luckykennedy7364 And that guy that made The Last Airbender
@@luckykennedy7364 And way better man than Raja Gosnell and Brett Ratner, seriously, some fool in a video went his way in comparing him to those two hacks
He also did 8mm and Lost Boys!
I’d say if mr freeze just spent most of his time with his goggles on it would’ve made his costume look a bit better
I was 10 when Batman Returns came out and loved it. I don't get why people complained, it was a PG13 movie.
Superman IV = ridiculous script which was made worse by budget cuts in a compromised production.
Batman & Robin = Greedy studio executives took full control and the disaster is on the screen.
Come on man, Schumacher's Gotham city is freaking amazing. It looks super stylized and I love how colourful it is. It's better than having *NEW YORK* or *CITY THAT LOOKS LIKE THE DARK KNIGHT'S GOTHAM*. I don't get why comic fans don't like when movies are like comic books.
Because certain shots just look terrible. You can tell it's a toy set and not very convincing. He ought to have used some actual building shots and had CGI them or designed the sets better to look more realistic.
Batman and Robin is a spiritual sequel to the Adam West TV series and movie rather than the 3 Batman films that came directly before.
So is Forever
Batman & Robin was my 1st superhero movie, it so bad that I could watch it forever.
same
Oh boy I cant wait for the Nolan movies
16:20 To quote Avatar Roku: "Where are we... going with this?"
Freeze in hell batman!
You're not sending me back to the cooler 😂
Meanwhile Bane: BOMB!
I still love Batman Forever and I STILL call for #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut. As for Batman & Robin...it gave us The Dark Knight Trilogy. It also isn't as bad as most movies made nowadays that utterly go out of their way to disrespect the fans rather than tell a good story. As flawed as Batman & Robin was, it's campy-ness makes it a popcorn flick that you turn your brain off on and still have a good time watching.
To be frank its really not Joel fault its was warner bros orders to make it cartooney
Making Batman and Robin more toyetic was a horrible decision the doomed the movie. I 100% agree with you, J.
I always felt the 3rd movie sould of been called batman and Robin and the fourth film batman forever.
So many bad lines it's almost beautiful.
Chill man....
@@theanothergundamguy8121 what killed the dinosaurs. THE ICE AGE!!!
Everybody...FREEZE!!!!
All right everyone, CHILL.
Cool party
The writers knew Arnold was going to be Mr Freeze before they started the script, and this really shows. Mr Freeze just says stuff they wanted to hear Arnold say.
After all these years I finally read some background on this movie and Forever, so I know longer blame Schumacher for these films sucking... entirely. Studios sure have a habit of screwing a director's original vision over, I swear.
Tim Burton, in an interview from 1995, that, "as a producer, I had absolutely no input into the "Batman Forver" movie. Truthfully, I couldn't tell you what a "producer" does, as I had nothing to do with that film." So much for having your name on a project.
I disagree, It saved it, after these films we got back to darker, grounded takes on the genre with batman begins followed up by iron man. We now knew where the line was so it was onwards and upwards from there
I think this version is based off the 1960s tv show. But when this came out everyone was use to the dark versions of the films.
Before "Crisis on Infinite Earths" in the Arrowverse confirmed that the two films take place in separate continuities, I heard a theory that I (still) quite like: Between the totally different aesthetic of Gotham City, the campier vibe, and recasting of Harvey Dent from Billy Dee Williams to Tommy Lee Jones… the Schumacher films are actually films set *in* the Burton universe-specifically, a future after Batman and his chronicles have long passed; there's detailed records of him, his allies, and his rogue's gallery; and executives decided to make films loosely based on the man, the myth, and the legend. Ya have to admit, it would explain *a lot* of things.
Fantastic review, and I hope that one day, you choose to continue this series.
Upon looking at his Robin is in Batman in Robin, he makes a better Jason than he does Dick, he's just so angsty
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it agin. The live action Batman movies treated it more like a cartoon than the actual cartoon which was mature and well written.
There was plenty of cartooniness in the animated series. However, the films and the animated series are all drawing from different eras of the comics, which accounts for the differences in tone.
bitch have you seen ive got batman in my basement?
If all these 90s Batman movies had come out at this day and age there’s a possibility we could have had another #releasethesnydercut situation with people demanding to see Tim Burton’s original vision for Batman Forever and onwards
My mom's weed cookies must be good, because when I saw that WiFi Connection Lost pop-up legit had me panicking for 5 seconds.
Your mom's edibles sound epic
I live in India. I never got to read the comics. My first exposure of batman was the animated series. It cemented the image of batman in my mind. I started loving batman after that. Imagine the level of disappointment on my face when i first watched joel's batman movies. It ruined batman for me until Christopher nolan made batman begins and my love finally came back.
19:47 Clooney was ahead of his time it seems
The dumbest thing is the most toys that have been sold from a Batman property is BTAS the show which doesn't so anything to sell more toys
What also separates these films from the burton ones is that in forever batman still doesn't know who killed his parents and we get the idea that two face did, when in 89 it is clear that batman realizes that it was joker
Also, Poison Ivy unplugs Nora's stasis chamber trying to kill her but tells Freeze Batman killed her. Batman then reveals that Ivy tried to kill Nora but Batman finds her, restores her and bargains with Freeze to transfer her to his cell in Arkham to continue researching for a full cure and in exchange he gives him the cure for the diseases first stage which Alfred has. Some think, lazy writing, I think hopeful.
And in Lego Batman Movie they did have a lego version of the Billy Dee Williams Two-Face.
That Mac Donalds Super Hero Commercial made my happy i was born in 2003
But then i remembered being hyped to get some promotional toys from a cereal when The Dark Knight came out
This is the same universe as the two Burton films, you can pretend that it isn't all you want but it is. Hingle is still Gordon and Gough is still Alfred and they even reference the first film in Batman Forever.
I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said I find that hard to believe.
@@JsReviews Yes it's a radically different film that the first two, much like how For Your Eyes Only was radically different (in a good way) from Moonraker.
So how’d Two Face change races?
@@crunchy1547 Same way Batman changed appearance and how James Bond somehow got 20 years younger in 1987, they changed actors.
Space Ace yeah but their races don’t change lol
I love how you sum up Banes contribution as ''Bane is a thing''.
unpopular opinion: I like this movie, it's silly fun that reminds me of the batman comics on silver age (but it is a bad sequel)
Same
Earlier in the movie Alfred: "I don't want my niece to ride something as dangerous as a motorcycle"
Dying ill Alfred an hour later: "I tailored a suit that has the shape of your cups, get into dangerous situations, you have my approval"
It's eerie how similar the Reeves Superman series and the batman quadrilogy are.
1st movie Big Office Smash Hit that earnestly told the stories of their respective Characters.
2nd Movie a dip in quality but still enjoyable, however containing tons of drama behind it that would influence the next film.
3rd Movie a more light hearted approach to the series that was not as well received (forever is underrated in my opinion)
And lastly the 4th movie which killed the character's reputation, the reputation of the superhero genre and they wouldn't return until the early 2000's
I actually liked the Batmobile from Batman Forever. Joel said it was inspired by H R Giger which was a nod to some of the darker ideas for Batman. Kinda wish they'd gone a little further with the design
Giger's design for the Batmobile was a bizarre thing, Google it if you've never seen it.
The best 2 things in Batman and Robin are Poison Ivy and the butt shot of Batgirl
HEH!
R.I.P. Joel Schumacher. Honestly i like batman forever, B&R? not so much its VERY BAD but i can enjoy it as a "so bad its good" thing
great video dude. loving this series
R.I.P.? Did he die?
@@smashmaster521 Yes he did
@@batmanfan6207 DAMN IT!
TBH, The old guy having a 3 letter password is the most realistic thing about these films.
The only thing that I enjoyed about Batman Forever was Val Kilmer's Batman voice and his portrayal of Bruce Wayne
As ridiculous as Batman Forever was, I actually enjoyed the film quite a bit. But the one thing I find absolutely silly was the security guard at the beginning of the film. I get equal opportunity employment but come on, it's a bank, in Gotham City! That's not a position for the weak or faint of heart.
Billy Dee Williams got to be Two-Face in The LEGO Batman Movie which did his Harvey Dent justice. Also irony of Two-Face being a character based on justice and morality and they got the original Harvey Dent actor. Also did you know that the animated film Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero was gonna be a tie in movie with Batman & Robin since they both had practically the same plot but because of Batman & Robin's poor receiving reviews and criticisms, the DCAU animated film was delayed to 1998 rather than 1997 to split itself from that universe. Batman & Robin and Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero could have tied together the DCAU to the Burton/Schumacher universe but no. And I think I like it that way. Plus had it did, how would Joker, Penguin, Two-Face, and even Catwoman be alive?
Jim Carrey was the only thing that salvaged Batman Forever. Even Alicia Silverstone couldn't save Batman & Robin.
Batman and Robin was so terrible that I walked out of the theater....at 14 years old. Hated it.
I honestly LOVE Batman Forever and most Joel Schumacher films, but Batman & Robin is a step too far
Will we get a part 4? The X-Men movies I'd say would make sense.
Then after that Spider-Man rami trilogy
Batman Forever is definitely the best Batman movie pre-Nolan. Like there’s no competition.
I would recommend two videos from youtuber Channel Awesome titled "What if Harvey Dent Was in Batman Returns" and "What if Tim Burton Did Batman Forever". He goes into detail how certain plot points in Batman Returns were removed by Studio interference like how Billy Dee was supposed to be in Returns but had his contract bought out and he was looking forward to playing Two-Face and the original script would have set that up better.
Batman and Robin is not the worst superhero movie ever. Guys you think this is the worst? Oh please, we have been given far worse over the years. I wouldn't even put in the top ten yet alone the top twenty.
Great work!
I used to love this movies when I was a kid, had them all on VHS and played them all the time. Since then I noticed the different tonality of Burton and Schumacher and was inclined for the first two entries. Nevertheless, there is something I like about the Schumacher movies: Gotham. Don't get me wrong, I hate the neon-nightmare, but those giant statues interlocking with the buildings, bridges everywhere, I made it look surreal and I loved it.
Tim Burton gets a producer credit because he worked on the initial version of batman forever and that's just the rules of Hollywood.
The continuity issue between Burton's films and Schumacher's is to me, no greater than the shift between Batman's introduction in 1939, and the massive shift that occurred when Robin was introduced in 1940. It goes from shadowy pulp to chromatic high adventure relatively quick.
In fact, part of the reason I love FOREVER is because of it's colorful golden age vibe- which includes 2 dimensional cackling supervillains including Two-Face's early appearances.
Batman and Robin comics were still pretty dark and gritty in 1940, look at the Joker'a first appearence for example
@@Ian-hj4yt that's probably the darkest story that entire year, and mainly just for plot elements, not tone. The next several issues would see an increase in cheesy banter between the dynamic duo, Batman smiling, and a tone shifting quickly from noir to one closer to the Douglas Fairbanks films that were all the rage with Finger and the other young guys behind the books.
@@weirdwest1702 Disagree
@@Ian-hj4yt that's fine I guess. But much of this isn't even a matter of opinion. Unfortunately, I can't post scans of pages and covers, but what I'm talking about is evident to anyone that looks into it.
0:48
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Apology accepted, Mr. Schumacher. Thank you for your humility. I wish other Hollywood “creatives” would follow your example.
I mean, at least Kilmer at least DISGUISED his voice as Batman unlike Clooney, who basically pulled an Adam West and didn't do shit with his voice
7:16 I laughed like a stupid 12 yrs old that i had to download the video, trim the whole thing just to watch this cheeky smile of Batman while seinfield plays on the background
So from what I've read, 'Batman Continues' was supposed to be a third Batman film directed by Tim Burton with Michael Keaton returning. Would've been nice seeing MK end his role in a Batman trilogy of films.
I can see why Batman and Robin is despise, but to be honest, Forever gets way too much hate. Yeah there were some confusing changes but it was pretty enjoyable.
Joel Schumacher never had anything to apologize for. He only did what the Studio told him to do.
I think Clooney NAILED Bruce Wayne where anyone who doesn’t know he’s Batman is present. Bruce should present the image that he is a dumb sexy idiot without any trauma. I think the idea of Batman disguising himself as Bruce Wayne, billionaire playboy, rather than the other way round, is something that hasn’t really been explored in the films
But yeah there should definitely be some contrast
As bad as ‘Superman III’ and ‘Superman IV: The Quest For Peace’ were for their bad scripts and production values, at the very least you could say they were actually films with honest-to-god stories and events that logically went from Point A to B, not as nauseating 2-hour long toy commercials.
Here’s my rankings of the original Batman and Superman Quadrilogies together from best to worst:
1. Batman (1989)
2. Superman (1978)
3. Batman Returns
4. Superman II
5. Batman Forever
6. Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
7. Superman III
8. Batman & Robin
I love both movies equally, and I always get a good laugh out of them! 😂❤️
You know after listening to a commentary on Batman Forever from another youtube channel I've kinda come to a similar conclusion they did when it comes to Carrey's Riddler performance.
Anybody remember Frank Gorshin's Riddler from 60's Batman where he had a near identical vibe to that era's Joker? High energy, crazed laughter?
Carrey's Riddler almost feels like that but cranked up in silliness. Thoughts? I don't think this is that great of a Riddler, but that angle seems to fit better than comparing it to his more familiar portrayals (DCAU, Arkham series, etc.)
I'm not sure I agree. How can it have killed off seuperhero movies if Blade was a hit the very next year?
Yeah but most people didn't even realize that Blade was based off a comic book back then
Or Spiderman and the Xmen
Blade wasn't a traditional 'comic book movie' in the sense of what Jon Doe movie goer would think of, it was just another black leather action movie from the 90's/early 2000s.
It did cause a resession of the genre until Spiderman came in to redefine things a good few years later.
Batman Forever isn't the best Batman film by any stretch, but it is a sound film in a bubble. It does explore its themes rather well, albeit with that quarky over the top dark tone Shumacher loves, and does give decent insight into Bruce Wayne's psyche. I find it ironic that Jim Carrey's Riddler is basically Jim Carrey's Robotnik, both films deviating from the source material greatly, yet the former is despised while the latter is praised. Honestly, neither performance is as it should be - they are equal in my eyes - but they also have the Jim Carrey charm that makes you at least not want to hate it.
Batman & Robin however... yeah just a complete memefest no matter how you look at it.
Batman forever was one of my favorite childhood movies ever
Batman and Robin: This movie is designed to sell merchandise.
Me: Wait what?
I think one of the things that bugged me more than any other was Clooney used the same voice for Bruce Wayne and batman idk why it bugs me so much
THANK YOU for giving props to The Animated Series and what it was doing during this time.