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The Burton Batman Duology Analyzed
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
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Superman the Movie proved that Superhero movies could be something more. The sequels undermined this message, but in 1989, Tim Burton's Batman was released to bring the genre back and stronger than ever! Today, we shall dive into the first Burton Batman film, and the sequel, Batman Returns!
"He kills the Joker by the end so, uh..mission accomplished I guess"
That is one of the stronger points of Batman Forever though. It does address the fact that getting his revenge didn't make the pain go away, and it actually got worse.
They wanted to bring him back // his films had gothic fantasy
Yeah thats true. When he warns Robin about killing Two Face
Brian Pomphrey though that point is kinda nullified by the fact Batman kills Two-Face anyway
@@kylecampbell565 Well, he's at least making sure that Dick didn't kill him and start down a dark path.
Plus, it was a life-or-death thing, which is better than the murder sprees he did in the previous movies.
Jonathan Campbell I guess but they should’ve made two face’s death seem accidental like they ended up doing in a later Batman film
I mean anyone who's played Lego Batman, that Danny Elfman soundtrack is part of your brain now.
I feel that, for definate.
I can attest to that. I still remembered the music when I watched the film for the first time, a decade or more after having payed the game.
You just gave me some nice flashbacks! That game was awesome.
Yeah
Because of Lego Batman every time I hear/see the word Batman I hear the Batman theme and hear the little clickety clacks of the text explaining the villain of the level.
Something I like about the Burton movies is the atmosphere he gives the gothic look or setting and it's characters. One problem I have with Batman adaptations nowadays is the creators try to copy way to much of the Nolan movies, trying to portray Batman in a more "realistic way", which I'm not totally against, but I feel takes away alot of fun the comic book elements the movie should have. Sure Batman stories are dark and have serious and mature themes but it also has silly elements from the comics (ex: the colorfull villains, the batman's gadgets) and the plot still centers around a guy who dress up like a bat and protect his city from villain such as clown, a bird man and a guy who has a "hot tub of immortality". I enjoy all the Batman movies (minus the Schumacher ones and BvS) but of all the directors I feel Burton was the one who came close to capture well the world of Batman.
@James Lucas I would say the adaptation who pulled this off really well were the Arkham games and Batman TAS, having mature and serious character drama like the Nolan movies but also the bizarre and gothic style of the Burton movies.
I'd just say Begins is superior in terms of a Batman feel. It's gritty, dirty, and atmospheric
@@w33dn0se3 True, although I still think the Burton movies are superior mostly due to the noir 30's visual style he add to Gotham and it's citzens, kind reminds me of Batman TAS visual style.
I concur. When I think of Gotham it's like a very dark place!! Crime, pollution, dirty politics. One element they left out is homelessness. Everything else is on point. Smog filled air, most of the time it's dark, and lots of drab dirty background. Really sets the tone of the movies.
The title "Batman Returns" refers to the fact that the movie is a tale of redemption; a retelling of A Christmas Carol. At the beginning of the film, Wayne is a ghost of his former self- having committed revenge on Napier, he has allowed himself to become consumed by his animalistic alter ego and lost his humanity, therefore he is merely the Bat.
Through the course of the sequel however, he is confronted with villainous mirror opposites of himself; his past- the Penguin(both had a tragic childhood and lost their parents albeit in different ways), his present- Selina(who sought revenge on her tormentor as Bruce did with Napier), and his potential future- Shreck(A stone cold psychopath- the direction that Bruce is currently heading in). By the end of the movie; having taken a long hard look in the metaphorical mirror he has developed empathy for both Penguin and Selina and therefore recovered his humanity- ergo Batman Returns. To be Batman he must have balance between his humanity and his primal nature. So yeah, it's a bit deeper than "Batman is returning to theatres"
This exactly. Batman Returns actually has a lot of depth to it in terms of its themes and symbolism. Unlike the Nolan films which spoonfeed everything to you, Batman Returns respects your intelligence and allows you to pick up on these themes and ideas through repeat viewings, just like a lot of the old great classic films did.
Damn I think you have a point. When I watched it just yesterday I thought it was a plot hole how Batman started telling Selina how "the Law gets in the way" when it comes to killing when I was like "bats, you set a dude on fire in the beginning". It seemed weird to me that a Batman who had zero issues killing would be so against Selina getting her revenge when he did the very same thing in the first movie with the Joker. Now after seeing your comment I am starting to see that it might have been a character arc that Burton did not spell out to the audience but was meant to show how his Batman was starting to grow from being a stone cold killer who found no peace in having his revenge, to finding his human side more after meeting Catwomen and the Penguin who all mirror him and in his battle against them and also learn how to grow himself and start to let go of his wanton use of killing and vengeance and instead finding justice. Hell it almost mirrors the character's comic book history with how he started off killing people without issue to becoming more of the modern incarnation that does not ever want to take a life.
It could be just us making up our own theories that have no merit but fan discussions like this are what make talking about these movies interesting so I hope that is close to what Burton meant when he made the film. It would make me enjoy even more than I already do.
@@rorschach1985ify As far as the behind the scenes stuff goes, Burton and Daniel Waters (the script writer) have always kept their cards close to their chests regarding what their intentions were regarding the meaning of the film. But the 'show, don't tell' approach allows the viewer more room for interpretation which I prefer to an exposition heavy dialogue style that most mainstream movies employ these days.
Regarding Batman's redemption arc; it may be that he qualifies as a hypocrite for trying to stop Selina from killing Max whilst his past is littered with acts of brutality. However introspection is not his priority at that point; his main motivation is saving Selina- preventing her from making the same mistakes as he did, and he fails in his goal. Then the film does a switcheroo on us where once the dust settles we see that rather than Bruce saving Selina; it is Selina that saved Bruce by inadvertently restoring his humanity and giving him a reason to fight instead of just cold revenge
@@slimjimpui Very well put and goes further into making me like this film all the more.
@@KingdomHeartsBrawler Spot on. The key is show don't tell - the Burton films did the former, speaking little but saying a lot with expressions, actions, music, and cinematography, while the Nolan films did far too much of the latter, talking constantly about matters of relatively little depth.
I just got the Lego 89 Batmobile, it took 8 hours to build, and it's awesome.
Good for you!
Damn.. I've seen how much that fucker costs
@@Gordon.Pinkerton LOL
that’s really sad. 🖕😌👌👌✌️🌴
In the Golden Age and Silver Age, Batman never had a "no killing" policy. He kills in his first ever appearance. He had a "no guns" policy.
Although that rule itself was a bit “loose”, as you have some issues with a machine gun strapped to the Bat-Wing. Or even some stuff in earlier post-crisis material, like him training Jason to use guns and even using them to take down a Manhunter Robot of Gordon
Kinda surprised the higher ups at WB didn't realize Batman Returns would take a darker turn considering Burton's previous work, Edward Scissorhands, also pulled a complete 180 in tone
Batman Return's ending saddens me because I really liked the relationship between him and Catwoman and the ending made it seem like they gonna bring her back and go even more in depth with their chemistry. Shame.
Their romance was more believable than Bale and Hathaways relationship they wasn't even that strong except Bruce lost his money which is ridiculous.
I wish Selena Kyle was in Batman Forever instead of the random psychiatrist lady. It would have given Bruce Wayne more conflict. Should he give up being Batman to settle down with Selena and help her overcome Catwoman?
@@gamersinacontainer tbh I'm kinda glad she isn't because I'm sure that if Batman Forever remained the same even with Catwoman returning, I'm sure it would've found a way to fuck it up.
@@solidoptimus0129 I mean if Burton stayed on, we got Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face and Robin Williams as The Riddler. I'm willing to sacrifice Jim Carrey for a better movie.
@@gamersinacontainer
Michelle Pfiefer & Michael Keaton will return to these roles
Batman Returns gets it man! It's dark, depressing, and violent, just like Gotham City. Batman fights crime night after night and things never get better.
17:56 Actually It is call "Batman returns" because "Batman back, baby" would sound way too weird of title.
Batman Returns is my favourite Batman movie. I just love the atmosphere, the gothic look or setting, the villains and the awesome soundtrack by Danny Elfman. People say oh it's not Batman movie this time, it's more of Tim Burton movie, good. McDonalds getting pissed because they can't sell their happy meal toys, good. He's taking risks and making it dark. It gets a lot of hate which I'm confused. All three characters worked so well. Danny Elfman had to create themes for Catwoman & Penguin. They're memorable. It's easily one of his best scores, highly recommend especially the Birth of the Penguin and his death which is still one of the saddest endings to a villain. It gets me every time. Well maybe the penguins moving his body is a bit silly but it works. It's not easy making the audience feel sad to a villain's death which is something fans didn't expect or want to see. Burton took risks, I'm so glad he did. I cant believe Danny DeVito got a Razzie nomination. You guys are the same idiots who nominated Kubrick & Brian De Palma for worst directors. Including Ennio Morricone's score of the Thing.
The costumes are great even the Bat suit improved. The origins for our villains are told well, both of them are memorable and yet again, the soundtrack makes them even better. Catwoman's origin might be a creepy to some, her first attack with El Scorpio from Predator 2 might be shocking to some especially kids. She's full of surprises.
It was fun seeing Christopher Walken, I can't believe his son is Leatherface or Zangief from Street Fighter. Lucky dad. Then again, Penguin's dad is none other than Pee-wee Herman.
Batman's introduction is sweet and badass. So many memorable shots & scenes. Burton really took it as far as he could.
Although there are some silly moments like the villains getting the blueprint of the batmobile, its still a dark film, so you kinda get a comic book film mixed with Burton's dark side.Overall, a fantastic underrated sequel that went to a new direction and managed to make the comic book characters a bit more interesting like the Penguin. Unfortunately, this is where the darkness stops, too bad, even as a kid, I loved it and still do. Sometimes I wish he continued with the sequels, Burton's version of these characters are unique and they stand out. You might love Nicholson's Joker more, just don't forget the Penguin & Catwoman.
And just like the first movie, Batman does kill in this one.... didn't bother me. Let's not forget he makes out with a zombie...
Everyone prefers the Dark Knight more, great, I don't hate it, it's just that I didn't care for it except the Joker scenes, I was memorized by his performance. To the point that I didn't even want to see Batman anymore.
I prefer Batman Returns, it's cold, dark, weird and fantastic. Believe me, I could go on & on. I haven't even talked about his new gadgets. Funny, as a kid I thought the baby was Batman, when the title showed up with all the bats, it looked like the baby was going to the bat cave. Its weird that both Batman films have great quotes with the word Honey in it. One coming from Joker and the other from Catwoman. And who could forget those cute little penguins with their rockets. Aww they're going to kill the children. Plus the Circus gang looks like Joker's henchmen. I almost forgot the silly pictures of Christopher Walken with Arnold, Elvis etc. Classic. And yes, he does say unlimited poontang. Always take risks, forget about what McDonalds think, pussies. Michael Keaton should have done something since he was the Founder. As Orson Welles once said to Ed Wood, "visions are worth fighting for".
I can't believe Danny Devito got a Razzie nomination. Like that shocks me. He was excellent in this movie.
It’s also my favorite Batman film. It’s a borderline aesthetic masterpiece. Peak Burton. I think I only like Ed Wood from him more. It’s nice to see in retrospect way more people start to appreciate superhero films like this where the director just goes all in on their vision. We don’t have a lot of that these days sadly, things are way too focus tested and highly corporately managed now.
Glad someone found enjoyment from batman returns. For me, its too goofy/weird and way too burtonesque and messy. Its easily towards the bottom of my list, but that's just my opinion. The costume for Batman, however, is one of the best.
Like, if you ask me, Devito's job as penguin was perfectly fine. But unfortunately, the academy has always been pretty bad with doing, you know, what they should.
Super long winded way to say it's the worst batman movie
When Arkham Knight brought out the Batman 89 skin pack I spent three hours grappling around Gotham playing the theme on my phone. No regrets.
If u have spotify installed on your ps4/xbox, u can play the elfman tracks instead of the game tracks
This duology came out when I was very young (born in 88) and so I feel very nostalgic for them. My mom had them on VHS. I watched them a ton as a kid and as such, they’ll always hold a special place in my heart. With that said, they’re not nearly as entertaining now as they were when I was a kid. A lot of the problems you listed are the same problems I have with them (especially the overloaded plot in Returns) but it’s the atmosphere that still grabs me. I remember these movies less for their merits as “movies” but more for their unmistakable Tim Burton moodiness.
I’m a sucker for atmosphere
Burton practically refused to direct BATMAN RETURNS (or "Batman II," as it was still called at the time) unless Warner Brothers gave him full creative control. The reason, he said, was that otherwise he'd feel that he was just doing a remake of the 1989 film, and he didn't see any point in doing that. (He also thought that the '89 film did nothing for his career, since people saw that simply as a Batman movie and not HIS movie.)
I had no idea the 4K Blu-rays were so crappy.
Because they made it to feel "modern" but it falls flat
Michael Keaton is Batman what are you talking about?
With so many superhero movies in our current film climate, I really appreciate the unique, stylish, and hand crafted feel to the Burton/Keaton movies. Also, they really do look like the comic books especially with their depictions of Gotham City. Great art direction and production design in both movies. Burton nailed the look but Nolan nailed the characters. I enjoy both portrayals.
I like the Tim Burton movies more than the Christopher Nolan movies.
There I said it.
Run. Hide. Disappear. They're coming for you. They won't let this stand.
@@basementguy7281
Tell me about it 😂
Fun fact: The Joker did not kill Batman's parents in this. Remember the scene where Bruce is looking in the scrapbook and sees Jack's picture? Well, on the opposite side you can see the actual killer hidden behind a photo of Jack, his eyes are staring right at you. Many people overlook this. I didn't see it until Nostalgia Critic mentioned it in a video once.
Cool catch
That might’ve been the original intention but the movie doesn’t follow through with that. It’s possible that scene was shot before Hamm stepped away. If you must know why, it had to do with the writer’s strike at that time and by contract Hamm had to step off the film, freeing the filmmakers to write everything they wanted. It’s boring but needless to say only 66% of Batman 89 is based on its original script (the cut off being when Bruce gets shot in Vicky’s apartment). After that the movie completely forgets the script and warren skarren came in to write the last third. Most of it was based on input from Burton and Peters, and it was Burton’s idea to have Joker be the Wayne parents killer.
FYI Skarren is dead, but don’t blame him for the changes. He knew the script and he knew the characters. He just wrote what the people above him told him to write and still was able to produce a coherent film that felt like one whole piece (unlike justice league’s theatrical cut which felt like three movies hobbled together)
Crystal Ball Studios The actual killer is still Jack Napier, it's just a younger version played by a different actor. The "scrapbook" was his prison files. I think you misunderstood what nostalgia critic meant in that video
@@jordanhorne1173 Now that you mention it, doesn't his partner scream his name in the flashback?
Yes. And the photo was of Jack Napier AKA The Joker... 🙄
Batman 89 is my definitive Batman movie that I first saw back in 89 when I was 3 years old. Your perspective on it not only talks about it's obvious flaws, but as well as it's strengths, and I think you did an excellent job on your review of it. Good job, kid!
I personally think Michael Keaton is the best batman
Easily the best, most definitive. Not sure how people can claim Christian Bale as the "definitive" version with a straight face - that terrible voice alone makes him impossible to take seriously.
That scene where Batman makes his entrance in the Axis chemical plant is one of my all time favourite movie scenes. Cape billowing out, Eflman's score... perfect.
Tim Burton doesn't get enough credit and respect he deserved bringing the Caped Crusader to screen it's was dark but it wasn't boring unlike Nolan sequels feel like watching Law and Order episodes Batman hardly in them except the scenes where he does the horrifying laughably voice.
@Tom Ffrench I'm not saying the movie is bad it's good it's just gotten overrated since the fans praise it so often they forget the other superhero films that came before it.
Batman Returns is my favorite movie! I'm obsessed with Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman since 1992. When I was 11 and I had a crush on her. Batman Returns is more dark, violent and depressing than Batman (1989).
I literally can't wait for the Spider-Man trilogy videos. 2 is my absolute favorite movie of all time, 1 isn't too far behind, and I've recently gained a new appreciation for 3. Keep up the good work J!
Michael Keaton is my fav Batman. The original 89 Batman is my fav Batman film.
Batman 66 is gr8 bro
Adam West was able to actually pull off the wildly differing tones of his Batman and BTAS when he was fantastic as the Grey Ghost. He's probably the only live action Batman who could pull that range off so well. He could be perfect as a serious Batman in a more kid friendly series like the DCAU and I can't see any of the others fitting in that kind of role though I doubt he could play a gritty Batman, at least not in a world where he's got the legacy he does.
Even if you dislike his series, West left a fantastic mark on the character and is every part an iconic part of him as Christopher Reeve is Superman. Imagine the crossover those two could've given us with the right people writing them. It could've been either the greatest showcase of Bruce and Clark as people ever or the most batshit insane movie ever made. So perfect comic movie either way.
These movies had the best version of the Batmobile.
The organ instrument in Batman returns is amazing Batman returns was a childhood movie of mine while my mom left for work I would watch Batman returns all the time
I feel like part of the reason I like batman begins and dark knight is because batman is in the driver seat and people are reacting to his actions. His goal is to take down the mob. I like Batman 89 but I realize he's the one reacting to things; he's just fighting crime and then joker appears and it's all reacting until the end.
As for returns' title, maybe batman is returning a shirt to old navy? The only thing that actually returns is penguin for revenge but I guess "Batman: Cobblepot Returns" would have been a bizarre choice.
I enjoyed your review J, but one thing I personally don't really understand is how you thought Returns was overloaded with a million different plots. Sure, Penguin's schemes are really out there, but the gist is that both Penguin and Shreck tried to profit off each other, Penguin blackmailing Shreck with evidence in order to get info on his parents' whereabouts, and Shreck trying to have Penguin run for mayor and have his goons wreck havoc in Gotham to discredit the current mayor so he can push his power plant plans with Penguin in power.
As for Penguin's batmobile hijacking and ice princess murder bits, it was to mess and frame Batman in a bad light since he messed with his gang and he's a psychopath, resorting to killing babies and then bombing Gotham out of spite for his parents and sheer resentment that everyone including his gang eventually abandons him.
For the rest, really solid takes on the Burton movies.
Your opinion is valid, however for people like myself who grew up with this series as well as the Superman film series, it affected us on a psychological and molecular level. Superman is supposed to be light hearted, and Batman is supposed to be dark (although a light hearted Batman can be done well, i.e. the 1960s movie/TV show or Batman: The Brave and the Bold). I can tolerate Batman Forever, but Batman & Robin was just...awful.
89 Batman is perfection
Nicholson's contract gives him a piece of the profits on ANYTHING with Batman on it.
I'm pretty sure that the only officially licensed Batman item you can buy without Jack getting a cut are the comic books. I believe he even gets 1% of the profits from the Nolan movies, and all the toys, games, etc attached to it.. and even Batman v Superman & Justice League
Batman '89 is my favorite live-action Batman movie. I could never get into excessive grittiness of The Nolan Trilogy or, God forbid, The DCEU, because they just didn't really have the humor or levity mixed in that the Burton films had. Stuff like that is kind of essential for something as dark and serious as The Dark Knight. That, and Keaton's Batman doesn't sound like auditory trash like Bale's.
But then WB thought Batman Returns being “too dark” and not for kids led to the Schumacher films which went full camp and color which just doesn’t fit though Forever at least tried to be in tone with a lighter tone
Love how Pee-Wee Herman is the Penguin’s dad.
My family and I saw "Batman" in 1989, when it came out, in the theater. We liked it so much, that we saw it four times over the following months. In fact, the fourth time we saw it, I already owned it on VHS, as it was released about six months after it came out in theaters, and was STILL in our local theaters at that point. I later bought it on DVD, with a lot of extras thrown in, as that's what they did in those days. The earliest DVD's were just like their VHS releases, "Just the film, Ma'm". (Remember "Dragnet"?) Later, the Studios added all kinds of, "behind the scenes" and "Making Of . . ." documentaries to these formats. Lately, unless you go for a BluRay release, these are not included any longer. And in the few films that still do add them, usually as a second disc, there really isn't much to it anymore.
The reason that Tim Burton was "dismissed", (sounds SO much better than "fired"), from making a third film, was the Parent's reaction to all of the violence in the first two movies. WB told them that any more Batman films will be "toned down" so as to be "kid-friendly". Really? Was Batman Forever less violent? Was there no violence whatever in "Batman And Robin"? Such hypocrites. Promise the public a whole new thing, get rid of the one director who turned you studio into a money maker once more and brought on the "Live Action Cartoons". Yeah, right.
In "Batman Returns", the beginning took place, perhaps, 35 years before the rest of the film, (you have to allow for the child to grow up into the adult), so being born at home, was not a "perk" of being rich, many children were born at home. We don't know, Possibly she went into complications and had the doctor called in, only to deliver pre-maturely. However it happened, the child was born at home, as were both of my own parents. And believe me, we were not rich.
By the way, Selina Kyle did NOT create her costume, "out of garbage bags", it was made by cutting up a vinyl raincoat. So, a little more substantial than garbage bag plastic.
Batman Returns on SNES is actually really great, quite possibly one of the best Beat-em'-Up games ever made.
Agreed!!!! 😁😁🙂 I still love that game to this day, the konami Batman games were quite fun, *I also enjoy the adventures of Batman and robin on snes.*
Great job! I'm interested to see where this series goes, and am excited for part 3.
Something I always found interesting about the 89 film is that if you lived under a rock you wouldn’t learn Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same person till over half way through. I wonder if it was meant to be a twist for the uninitiated.
Anyway Which DC films do you plan to cover?
Linkara had a theory that this was since bruce was so absorbed in being batman that he was extremely disconnected from his life as bruce wayne.
Prince did an ENTIRE ALBUM of 9 songs for the movie. Only 6 of the songs were actually in the movie. There were 4 singles from the album. 2 of them, Partyman which you spoke about and Scandalous which plays during the end credits, were in the movie.
" Eat floor high fibre."
You're right about the audio on the 4k's of Batman movies but wrong about the picture. As someone who works in restoration, the Burton Bat films had a tint to them, Returns esp an ink blue which was removed for Home Ent back in the VHS days because it wouldn't look good on tape. Those masters were then used for every release after, DVD and blu-ray. The 4K scans are actually how these films looked on the big screen. I recently saw Returns here in LA on film and it was the exact same tint as the 4K. It's just that we're not used to it after 30 years of the home ent releases.
Interesting. I had never heard of this before. Good to know.
11:55 why do i find it funny when he said that? 😆
The scene in 89 where Batman crashes through the top window to save Vicki from Joker, ever since I first noticed the wire in the background, I can't tell if that was meant to be unnoticed but the filmmakers couldn't do a thing about or if it's supposed to be noticed cause Batman's using a grappling hook or something.
I actually noticed this throughout the movie, Batman is on obvious wires, however you can see him in the first scene he meets Napier, him pressing a button to be released from the grapple hook. So in universe that's the excuse.
Would have loved to have seen Jack’s joker interact with Michelle’s catwoman and Danny’s Penguin
Here’s a Batman 89 motion comic you might like ruclips.net/video/-ZZXsss9_JQ/видео.html
keaton will always be my Batman
If there’s one thing that Bat 89 did
Was introduced me to Prince
Batman 89 is awesome
The algorithm burried the Superman movies video.
I grew up watching 80's and 90's action and/or adventure films where I understood the Bad Guys needed to be killed in order to permanently stop them.
Batman being violent and lethal made sense to me because he was only stopping the Bad Guys.
11:30 Kevin conroys Batman is the definitive Batman. Jeez now I want to go watch all of J reviews again!!!!
The Burton Batman, where to start? For me, Batman '89 was an act away from being a classic. By that, I mean the first two acts are pretty much flawless, and it is only in the third act where a lot of people's biggest problems with it arise. One thing people often overlook is that Batman actually doesn't kill anyone until the third act. If you watch the way Batman operates for most of the movie, he not only coincidentally doesn't kill, but actively saves/ties up criminals. It feels like there was a real quintessential version of Batman in the script for most of the movie, but in the last act, after finding out that the Joker is his parents' killer, he kind of just becomes an 80's action hero. That being said, it is still a great movie and piece of Batman history, even if it is a rather simple movie and isn't really about Batman.
I always took it as once Bruce made that connection that Joker killed his parents he snapped, the look on his face when he heard Joker utter that line about dancing with the devil says it all. From there, all bets were off and he was unleashed with no inhibitions until he got his revenge
In 2021 dc announced they are doing a comic continuation of the Tim Burton Batman movies and the Christopher Reeves Superman movies
These deserve more views dammit
"Let's dance!" and remember how these fun and dark films based on our Caped Crusader are interesting and kinda suspenseful. Stay safe and keep it up!
"he's an eccentric weirdo". Yeah, welcome to Tim Burton movies. Also, the superman score is very memorable outside the main theme. After the titles you have the Krypton theme.
Actually J, I'm not really sure what your thoughts on BTAS, do you think you can make a video on it someday?
He did full reviews for all the Bruce Tim animated series, including Batman TAS
@@EnsignRedSquad Sarcasm, my red friend.
IKR this guy should do like a 100 videos on the entire DCAU😏
@@EnsignRedSquad I'm sorry, but I have to say it... r/whoosh
@@aviatordanz does that mean you are a blue?
When you realize Penguin's Father was played by Pee Wee Herman
And he also played his father in Gotham. Yeah mind blowing
Loved it! Looking forward to the next review in this series. 👍🏻😊🦔🦔
Honestly I love watching Batman Returns during Christmas
I feel like the best way to frame the first movie is less that it's "about Batman" and more "about how all these different people are affected by Batman".
Actually as Crisis On Infinite Earth's behind the scenes with Kevin Smith has taught us The 2 Shoemaker Films are in their own separate universe
I know the Schumacher batman films I didn't know a Shoemaker made Batman movies
@@thomasjohnson1885
🤣😂 My bad
@@thomasjohnson1885
🤣😂 I'm not gonna change it though because that blunder is to funny to keep
they were still developed as being in the same continuty. retcons don't change anything.
@@silobobus3268
Isnt that the definition of a Retcon...to change something
I saw Batman Returns as a child before I ever even saw Batman 89, and I thought it was awesome. It never occurred to me that it uses horror imagery until I found people talking about it on the internet. I also never saw it as being a major letdown from Batman 89 because I saw Batman 89 later, so to me it was just 2 awesome Batman movies
Also, Batman should NEVER kill for one BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL reason. If Batman kills, why tf is Joker still alive?
Mind you, in the DCEU continuity, you are led to believe that a) Batman kills random thugs with no noticeable hesitation, b) Joker and Harley Quinn successfully killed Robin, and c) Batman is not out to kill Joker or Harley Quinn. Something important is missing from that equation.
Even if you don't like the Joker and Batman's origins being tied together. You can't deny that it brought out one of the best lines in the movie. "You idiot! You made me! You dropped me in that vad of chemicals; That wasn't easy get over and don't think that I didn't try!" After some fighting Batman proceeds to say "You made me, you killed my parents and brought me here right now!"
Great vid, can't wait for the next!!! :D
Something you missed. You are correct this isnt the full origin story of how Bruce Wayne becomes Batman but it is the story of how Batman began in Gotham City. If you notice, in the beginning, Batman is just a rumor. Throughout the movie, there are more and more sightings until finally he is accepted as Gothams hero.
Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie. It's an arthouse blockbuster.
Wow, I'm surprised. Most folks nowadays tend to either shit on Batman 89, say it's more notable for what it did than for what it is, or like it more out of nostalgia than anything, but you actually enjoyed it. That's really cool. For me, 89 is still the best live action Batman film. I feel it's the closest we've come to getting it right, even with some of the changes/elements that I'm on the fence about (Batman killing criminals, Joker killing Batman's parents, etc). It balances the lighter and darker aspects of the series very well, Keaton and Nicholson really nail it as Batman and Joker, and it felt like they took one of the old comic book stories and put it on the big screen while still including some of the developments that the series gained over time. Personally, I still prefer Keaton over Bale as Batman; Bale always felt like he was forcing it on some level to me, while Keaton just felt so natural as the character (I also feel that he was able to portray an "unspoken sadness and turmoil" that added another level to his character). I also prefer Nicholson to Ledger, as while Ledger was impressive in how into the character he was playing he got, Nicholson just seemed to embody the mix of comedy and insanity that is the Joker. I also enjoyed the comedy more than you did, Robert Wuhl was great, a dorky putz that you can't help but laugh at. I also enjoy Batman Returns, but moreso in it's own oddball and demented way (I have a certain taste for that kind of thing). I totally understand if people hate it. Truthfully, I think both Batman film series started off really well with their first movie, but by the second started becoming "the director's movie" rather than a "Batman movie." Maybe it's just me, but that's how I feel about them, and I can see arguments on both sides about whether that's good or bad. Anyways, I'll be interested to see what you think of the other films.
Originally, Batman did kill criminals in 1939. In his first appearance (Detective Comics 27) he socks the villain into a vat of chemical acids, and coldly mutters "A fitting end for his kind."
Used a gun, snapped peoples neck, etc etc. Actually, surprisingly violent! Pretty cool read, if you can find some reprints! :D
@@TheDylandProductions Oh, I'm well aware. I've read a lot of the early Batman comics. What I meant by being "on the fence" about that element being included is that while on one hand there is precedent for Batman doing that and it is accurate to the earlier style they were clearly going for, on the other hand it goes against what Batman has become over the years which could piss a lot of fans off and it shitcans part of the struggle of his situation (in that he has to make the hard choice not to kill his enemies, which comes with a lot of moral questions and can make the story more interesting).
The first Batman movie and the animated series based on it started it all, when Warner Brothers became the owner of DC.
Ah, so the designs on the almost all the Batman suits in the movies had a design flaw that made the actors unable to turn their necks. I was wondering why their movements were like action figures sometimes.
I love your videos dude
I love batman 89 yes it may not have a whole lot of substance and I HATE that batman kills in it but I still love lots of things. I love Keaton, Nicholson, the batsuit, the batmobile, the score , and the aesthetic and gothic set design of everything It's a classic and we wouldn't have any of the batman stuff today if not for this movie so for me it's a solid 8/10
Batman returns is a movie I like, but every time I watch it (every Christmas) I like it less, it has the same good stuff from the first one but even less substance, it's just weird to me
Great video j :-)
Tbe Killing Joke literally ends with Batman killing the Joker.
Heh, nice to see that clip from Ratchet: Gladiators, especially after having beaten all four of those R&C games very recently on PS2. 😁
If you’re going to do more, I’d love to see a video about why audiences didn’t respond to Daredevil 2003 (even though it was a direct answer to Raimi’s Spider-Man)
I enjoy both movies too but I watched batman 1989 more out of the two. One more batman movie from tim burton would have been more interesting than the garbage we got with batman forever stupid name sounds like a kid tattoo
Even if they do under perform I think that the superman episode was great.
The Burton Duology Is Better Than The The 1995 - 1997 Duology, I Don't Remember His Name Well.
Personally I prefer Batman Returns over Batman 89.
I like both movies
I like Batman (1989) way better
Batman Returns, on the other hand, never really did it for me. Whereas, the '89 movie had a lot of quinestial Batman, with a little Burton flair, Returns is a Tim Burton movie with a Batman aesthetic. It's just too much of it's own thing in it's depiction of Catwoman and Penguin that it almost feels like an elseworld story. Not that that is a bad thing, inherently, but what it changes, while interesting, isn't really better than the source material. Like you mention in the video, it's just a little too much in the darkness department, being not dark in a serious dramatic way, but more in a "that's really messed up" sort of way. It's just never been a pleasant movie for me to watch and, while visually beautiful, isn't really about anything either, at the end of the day. It's alright, but is actually the Batman movie I enjoy watching the least (yes, even more than Batman and Robin, it knows what it is and is really harmless).
What a P*ssy
The excitement level for Batman 89 was on another level I bought the chewing gum cards even got the cinema posters from the local cinema back then wish I'd kept them but I was only a teenager and girls and beer and parties happened and raves
Alfred was played by Michael Gough (pronounced 'goff')
If you ask me, these films were better than the Nolan movies, mainly because they obviously weren’t trying to adapt classic Batman, they were adapting Golden Age Batman, which is why I don’t mind him killing. With the Nolan movies, however, they COMPLETELY missed the mark with Batman, as well as most of the things in those movies, and not just because visually it was better, but to me, the stories were better as well.
Completely agree.
I love how Tim Burton thought it was a good idea to begin Batman Returns with Infanticide.
Man , you look great haha
BATMAN RETURNS on the SNES is 😎.
The Burton batmovies did do more for batman than superman the movie did for superman cause those movies cause a suit change in the comics to be more body armor like that batman 1989 first gave us before batman was released the suit in the comics looking more like Adam west Lewis Wilson and Robert lowery suit that looked more like tights and trunks and I became a fan of batman in 1989 watching Adam west series that family channel aired as hype for the 89 movie and the first batman movie I saw in theaters at 8 years old was batman returns from what I heard it wasn't public backlash to tone and amount of violence in batman returns that got Burton dismissed from the series of movies it was McDonald's complaints that they couldn't use the movie likenesses of the character and having to alter the looks of the happy meal toys so warner brothers gave McDonald's final approval for the choice of director that would replace Tim Burton and that's how we ended up with joel schumacher as the director for batman forever and batman and robin it all came to batman returns not being as much of a marketable movie as batman 1989 cause of Tim's choice to go darker and more violent cause back then it was about the money that could be made by the movie's merchandise
Excellent video thoroughly enjoyed it please release a part 4 and beyond!
Batman Returns. Violent movie what are you kidding me look at the Dark Knight Trilogy.
Batman 1989, as we title it, was a movie of the 80's : more marketing-driven and following recipes to "work". Even though it came out after the big screenwriter's guild strike.
Batman Returns is the result of that strike : give more power to the artists (Tim Burton). Therefore we got a more artsy movie, with a clear and distinct personality. But it only failed to hit the second aspect of the 90's : combining author power with marketing power. Burton didn't make a movie that sells, he made the movie he wanted to see. Which is why the big bucks corporations and their herds of consumerist sheep hated it, while most Burton fans love it, and many consider it the best batman movie or even the best burton movie.
21:36 I disagree, Batman Forever was definitely about something, and it's right there in the title. Will Bruce be Batman forever?
🙂 nice job j, I'll admit that Batman 89 is still a great movie to this day, I enjoy it, as for returns, it have a special place for me, interestingly enough I actually played the snes game before watching the movie on VHS when I was younger, if anything I always thought that from Batman 89, the earlier seasons of the animated series and returns did coexist nicely since the atmosphere does match and follow in a beautiful flow, from character developments *and yes, watching the penguin did scare me when I was younger, 😂😂, I thought penguins were killer birds, don't ask* and I do agree about your overall moral, every superhero movie have its fair share of strengths and weaknesses, especially in some cases where one side prevails over the other, now 😂😆 because I played the snes game, I thought the violence was fine in the movie, it made for good action scenes. I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the Tim Burton Batman movies since I find them enjoyable to watch no matter what reason it may be. Now my question to you is this: have you played any of the Batman returns games on anything? Aside from me growing up with the snes game, I actually did try the nes game in recent years, I thought the nes game was fine *konami Batman era games 🙂❤❤ truly some good stuff, however I love the konami tmnt games more 😂😂😆🙂 I apologize for getting a bit off topic here, but regardless, great job j, wishing you the best of success and more, you are the true dark knight *quoting the ending to the Batman returns snes game*
Batman 1989 is a much stronger film if you see it as something of a satire of urban living.
Great video, as usual, J! By and large I really agree with a lot of the points you raise about the Burton Batmans. As you point out (even in your Mask of the Phantasm review), the main issue with these films is that are not really about Batman. I've heard Burton defend this choice on the special features, arguing that he felt Batman is mysterious/secretive character and wanted to "respect his [Batman's] privacy." While I get what Burton was
going for, it just doesn't feel like the audience has enough to go on, in regards to the character of Batman (who's the protagonist) to feel invested in the character and his struggles as much as he's fun to watch because he looks and acts cool. Ultimately, I just think that both films emphasize style over substance, but what a style they have! I'm really excited for your assessment of the Schumacher films! Forever is actually my favorite of these first four, as it is the first to really explore the character of Bruce Wayne, addressing a lot of the issues/questions you and others have about these films (such as Batman's seeming lack of motive for what he does, as voiced in '89 to Vicki, and the point you raise at 14:40 about avenging his parents and turnaround on killing in general). Also, do yourself a favor and check out the deleted scenes for Forever. They really show some of the best moments of Kilmer's performance and are some of the best character-moments we get with this version of Batman! Keep up the great work!
"The mirror, the mirror."
Funny parents complain about Batman returns even though it was made more for older audiences and Batman in general is not for ages 5 and under but had no problem with mask of the phantasm even though it was just as dark
I hope part three is the independent comic book movie genre Tank Girl, The Crow, TMNT, Mystery Men, The Phantom, Dick Tracy,
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the 60s Batman show. Personally I love it and I'm 20.
I love it to and I'm 18
Would be amazing to see ya cover other bat cartoons ya haven't shown like 2004 the batman or batman the brave and the bold mate
Batman 1989 is even more violent.
The Joker burns a guy alive, kills countless inhabitants of Gotham with gas, and you see him kill the Wayne's right in front of their 9 year old boy.
That last scene alone, with the demonic smile on the face of Jack Napier, is such a nightmare scene from hell, it's pure evil!!