Clarification: --> Having one's pointer finger rest right against the scroll wheel has some advantages in that it makes it very easy to get on top of the wheel comfortably. Usually I wouldn't note this is as a problem, but in the DA V3's case my unit's scroll wheel is so loose/light on actuation force that having my pointer rest against the wheel results in accidental misscrolls sometimes. The other reason I think this is a bit more of an issue on the DA V3 than the EC2-C is because if you flip both mice over the DA V3 seems to have a slightly more aggressive flairing on the bottom for its left side on the thumb groove and this naturally tilts my hand a bit more than the EC2 when using a palm/relaxed fingertip grip such that my pointer is moreso pushed into the wheel.
Agreed, in my view Zowie nails the fundamentals (click feel, great side buttons, best in class wheel+middle click, solid cable, extremely good and thoughtful shape with lots of attention to detail for the little things) -- but at the same time, they don't use a unibody or pseudo unibody shell, their shell material/texture/coating on the wired -C variant at least isn't anywhere near my favorite, and the polling rate/sensor are behind the times. Also no split trigger switches and, for me, the EC2 is a bit too small while the EC1 is a bit too large. They definitely have clear areas for improvement -- but in terms of the core fundamentals that matter most there probably isn't a mouse I respect as much thinking on it.
Didn't know people reviewed wired mice still. For Deathadders side profile, I think it's designed to have your pinky end at the cut and your ring finger settles at the edge to the top.
I have a few wireless mice including the wireless white DA V3, but I don't mind cables too much provided it's a good one like the DA V2 speedflex (not the DA V3 cable) or the EC2-C cable. On the other hand the Outset AX cable for my unit is like a stick, absolutely awful cable on an otherwise fantastic mouse (probably the best build quality for the shell/clicks I've ever seen is my Vaxee Outset) and the DA V3 cable is also very irritating for me. One thing I'm sort of paranoid about is what happens to my wireless mouse once the internal battery dies -- usually that's a problem for years down the line and something else is likely to break first, but it's part of why having a good connecting cable still matters to me on wireless mice since if I want to play wired to charge or if down the road the battery goes to crap with a good cable might not be too bad really (some wireless mice sadly have way worse cables than their wired versions, the DA V2 vs DA V2 Pro is an example of this). And yeah I hear you -- for the DA V3 ledge, I actually think it feels very natural provided your fingers aren't coming off the end and resting on that harsh edge. More natural than the EC2-C ledge curve in fact. "But" I have really wide hands such that most ergos are too narrow and when that happens the only way to really palm/relaxed finger tip them comfortably for me is to choke up on them more at which point my fingers basically always come off the end and it feels terrible for me. Mainly I just think that making that ledge end slant back rather than going all the way to the end of the click and then leaving it a raw edge instead of more gracefully rounding it off is a design error since implementing those changes would probably hurt no existing users while making the mouse far better for users with big hands who like the grip I do. I don't want to miscommunicate though, I do think overall the DA V3 is a really good mouse.
Wired is coming back. They have no connectivity or latency issues that the wireless have and they are a bit lighter too. Also, they are so much cheaper for the same performance. Win win. I have the Deathadder V3 Wired and it's great.
@@B.F.D. Thanks that looks like a very similar shape at a glance - hope it’s in the shape compressed RTNGS tool, will look into that one later today. How are the clicks and wheel?
Do you think the zowie fills out the bottom of your palm like a g703 would i dont know if you've ever tried it. The deathadder is really uncomfortable to palm for me as you are really only gripping the upper part, the lower part of the mouse is not even in your palm.
DAV3 is too small for me, but i just bough my third, its the best i can find with latest tech.. i have 19x10cm hands and the hump is just too big and too much tilt, coating could be even better, its the best coating razer could ever make but still not top notch like zowie or endgame gear Btw, that mousepad is crap, i had one and its too slow and feels like a swamp, change it and see for yourself, im using zowie gsr2 and its a dream..
@@pav1u if you want something bigger than the DA V3 the EC1-C or CW would be the next step up in size. But I found it to be a little too big personally. Still, it’s on my desk right now. If you like palm grip I love the Logi MX Master but with a polling rate of only 125 hz and quite a heavy weight it’s a tough sell for gaming in its current version. Vaxee Outset you might also consider if you’re looking at larger ish ergos. But overall I think prefer the EC1 shape personally
@@Spectrulight I think the DA V3 was more or less targeted at the average guy’s hand size. I have 19.5 x 10.5 cm hands and it’s definitely too narrow for me and I found the finger ledge to definitely be too short. But for claw it’s a dream I’d say.
One mouse I'm very curious about that I've not really seen anyone try or review is the Razer Pro Click -- seems like on paper it'd be fairly decent for large hands and has 1000 hz polling unlike the MX Master (basically its competitor). That mouse is fairly cheap now too iirc so i've been meaning to pick one up eventually. I've not used it though so take that with a grain of salt. Vaxee Outset feels bigger in the hand then the DA V3 and fixes the sharp corner finger ledge problem (wheel and cable are pretty rough on the original though/the one I've got so perhaps wireless would be the way to go there). EC1-CW is about the largest mouse I've used or can think of at the moment.
Probably the EC2-C though I alternate a good bit. The sad fact of it is the EC2 I know is a bit too small for me while the EC1 is a bit too large. For my hands, my general feeling is that a theoretical EC1.5 would be just about perfect, but that doesn't exist and other ergos similar to that are noticeably worse in other ways. The EC1 mainly just feels so tall in the hand to me that it sort of hurts of my hand to palm/relaxed fingertip grip after awhile. But the EC2-C is probably a smidge too short in length and in particular too narrow to be perfectly comfortable for my hand size/dimensions so it is what it is. Both are great mice and it sort of just depends on how big your hands are I'd say. The DA V3 has potential in the sense that a theoretical V4 could come along and fix all my gripes, but as it is now I think it's a worse mouse than the EC2-CW in terms of the fundamentals while being a better mouse in the mouse in core specs area (polling rate/sensor/weight). Another future hope would be Vaxee -- Vaxee's mice are extremely well built in my experience and I own the Outset which is a great mouse too in its own right. However that mouse the back mouse hump has a raised profile which to me is a bit uncomfortable to palm for long periods because it's just too tall imo.
@@BlindBison Thanks, I've had an EC1 for a while but I just got the 2. And well, I'm in the same boat - 1 is too tall and 2 is a bit small. I want to try the NP-01 and Outset, if they ever restock the wired versions.
@@Scurvyrot I recommend using the RTNGS shape compare tool - the NP-01 shape looks fantastic but it doesn’t really look to be any bigger than the EC2 (regrettably imo). Outset is a great shape but overall I think I order the EC2s core shape - the outset is a bit shorter in length and has a very raised back hump. It’s quite good, but I honestly think an EC1.5 would be better. Don’t want to undersell the outset though best built mouse I think I’ve used/great clicks/unibody shell. Worth trying imo - personally I’d prefer the mouse hump not be so raised/tall and I’d prefer the front portion where the clicks are to be lengthened out a bit but it probably depends on your hands and how you grip - I like it for claw a lot (but I don’t use claw grip I use palm as my main).
@@Cirkularr appreciate the recommendation I’ll look it up in the shape compare tools! I know I used to love the SS Rival 310 but that got discontinued.
It depends a lot on one’s preferred grip type and your hand size. For either smaller (or more narrow) hands or someone clawing for example those issues may not be noticed anywhere near as much. The thing is, elongating the ledge at least to the end of the click then rounding it off like Vaxee / Zowie do and improving that connecting edge/piece at the bottom (smaller, rounding it like Zowie/Vaxee) would hurt nobody while making the mouse a lot better for some users. To be clear, I think the DA V3 is a great mouse - it’s just also that certain parts of it honestly feel like a prototype to me in need of further refinement in a future iteration. By comparing the mouse against other ergos, especially Vaxee and Zowie, some of those shortcomings (which may not be a deal breaker for many in fairness) become more apparent and it sort of makes me wonder if they weren’t as thorough in their user testing as they should’ve been during development. I’m really happy you’re enjoying yours! I’m super picky and sometimes wish I could just enjoy things lol. Overall it is a very good option. Sensor and weight are better than the EC2-C and it has a pseudo unibody shell as well + split trigger switches so some advantages for sure.
@@BlindBisonhonestly, I appreciate all the insights you've had. It definitely has reminded me to keep my mind open to other improved designs available out there.
@@handsomebassman No problem, I just really like mice and keyboards and it’s fun hearing about new ones from other people (then I load them up in the RTNGS shape compare tool). I own way too many and over time some things just stick out to you. Usually one mouse isn’t “better in every way across the board”, usually it’s better noticeably in some specific respects VS another which has its own pros and cons. Even this video for the DA V3 - yes I’d give the overall win to the EC2-C myself “but” the DA has a number of hard wins of its own (split trigger switches, unibody shell, the slightly larger size is a bit better for my hand size, weight, polling rate + sensor, more natural feeling ledge curve to me assuming one’s fingers don’t come off the end). I rotate between my mice a lot til one or two things irritate me then I switch lol. Right now I’m using the Vaxee Outset and that thing is extremely well built with incredible click feel (though it too has some aspects I’m not too fond of like the raised hump height being too tall imo + the wheel being not as good as Zowie’s and the cable being like a stick).
Good to know your view, I haven't used that mouse yet -- at a glance it looks similar in shape to the EC2, but I will say I strongly dislike when mice put holes in their shell (could just be a me thing). At a glance the price point seems quite fair on the Pulsar site (80 usd for a good quality wireless product is pretty competitive these days).
@@re4796 Good to know thanks -- I must've been viewing the store page for the V2 then. That's pretty awesome they listened to feedback for the shell. Do you recall what the wheel/middle click are like?
@@re4796 Do you ever accidentally mis-scroll the wheel while pushing the middle click? The DA V3 that happens to me all the time and weirdly how “notchy” light the scroll wheel is is actually a bit different feeling between my wireless one and wired one. Thanks!
Clarification:
--> Having one's pointer finger rest right against the scroll wheel has some advantages in that it makes it very easy to get on top of the wheel comfortably. Usually I wouldn't note this is as a problem, but in the DA V3's case my unit's scroll wheel is so loose/light on actuation force that having my pointer rest against the wheel results in accidental misscrolls sometimes. The other reason I think this is a bit more of an issue on the DA V3 than the EC2-C is because if you flip both mice over the DA V3 seems to have a slightly more aggressive flairing on the bottom for its left side on the thumb groove and this naturally tilts my hand a bit more than the EC2 when using a palm/relaxed fingertip grip such that my pointer is moreso pushed into the wheel.
For zowie's asking price, they should really think about upgrading their sensor
Agreed, in my view Zowie nails the fundamentals (click feel, great side buttons, best in class wheel+middle click, solid cable, extremely good and thoughtful shape with lots of attention to detail for the little things) -- but at the same time, they don't use a unibody or pseudo unibody shell, their shell material/texture/coating on the wired -C variant at least isn't anywhere near my favorite, and the polling rate/sensor are behind the times. Also no split trigger switches and, for me, the EC2 is a bit too small while the EC1 is a bit too large.
They definitely have clear areas for improvement -- but in terms of the core fundamentals that matter most there probably isn't a mouse I respect as much thinking on it.
no need
im a palm grip user myself with medium ish close to small hands and the ec2 is my endgame!
amazing insight
Thanks lol
Didn't know people reviewed wired mice still. For Deathadders side profile, I think it's designed to have your pinky end at the cut and your ring finger settles at the edge to the top.
I have a few wireless mice including the wireless white DA V3, but I don't mind cables too much provided it's a good one like the DA V2 speedflex (not the DA V3 cable) or the EC2-C cable. On the other hand the Outset AX cable for my unit is like a stick, absolutely awful cable on an otherwise fantastic mouse (probably the best build quality for the shell/clicks I've ever seen is my Vaxee Outset) and the DA V3 cable is also very irritating for me.
One thing I'm sort of paranoid about is what happens to my wireless mouse once the internal battery dies -- usually that's a problem for years down the line and something else is likely to break first, but it's part of why having a good connecting cable still matters to me on wireless mice since if I want to play wired to charge or if down the road the battery goes to crap with a good cable might not be too bad really (some wireless mice sadly have way worse cables than their wired versions, the DA V2 vs DA V2 Pro is an example of this).
And yeah I hear you -- for the DA V3 ledge, I actually think it feels very natural provided your fingers aren't coming off the end and resting on that harsh edge. More natural than the EC2-C ledge curve in fact. "But" I have really wide hands such that most ergos are too narrow and when that happens the only way to really palm/relaxed finger tip them comfortably for me is to choke up on them more at which point my fingers basically always come off the end and it feels terrible for me.
Mainly I just think that making that ledge end slant back rather than going all the way to the end of the click and then leaving it a raw edge instead of more gracefully rounding it off is a design error since implementing those changes would probably hurt no existing users while making the mouse far better for users with big hands who like the grip I do. I don't want to miscommunicate though, I do think overall the DA V3 is a really good mouse.
Wired is coming back. They have no connectivity or latency issues that the wireless have and they are a bit lighter too. Also, they are so much cheaper for the same performance. Win win. I have the Deathadder V3 Wired and it's great.
@@BlindBison Delux M900 Pro wider
@@B.F.D. Thanks that looks like a very similar shape at a glance - hope it’s in the shape compressed RTNGS tool, will look into that one later today. How are the clicks and wheel?
@@BlindBison I have not it. I just looked at the reviews.
You might wanna try pulsar xlite v3
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ve been meaning to get my hands on one of those and I’d also like to try to modern 502.
Do you think the zowie fills out the bottom of your palm like a g703 would i dont know if you've ever tried it.
The deathadder is really uncomfortable to palm for me as you are really only gripping the upper part, the lower part of the mouse is not even in your palm.
DAV3 is too small for me, but i just bough my third, its the best i can find with latest tech.. i have 19x10cm hands and the hump is just too big and too much tilt, coating could be even better, its the best coating razer could ever make but still not top notch like zowie or endgame gear
Btw, that mousepad is crap, i had one and its too slow and feels like a swamp, change it and see for yourself, im using zowie gsr2 and its a dream..
How is it too small for you, it's built for big hands and you have average hands
@@pav1u if you want something bigger than the DA V3 the EC1-C or CW would be the next step up in size. But I found it to be a little too big personally. Still, it’s on my desk right now.
If you like palm grip I love the Logi MX Master but with a polling rate of only 125 hz and quite a heavy weight it’s a tough sell for gaming in its current version.
Vaxee Outset you might also consider if you’re looking at larger ish ergos. But overall I think prefer the EC1 shape personally
@@Spectrulight I think the DA V3 was more or less targeted at the average guy’s hand size. I have 19.5 x 10.5 cm hands and it’s definitely too narrow for me and I found the finger ledge to definitely be too short. But for claw it’s a dream I’d say.
@@BlindBison that's everso slightly bigger than average. I have 20x12 hands which is also slightly above average and it feels normal
One mouse I'm very curious about that I've not really seen anyone try or review is the Razer Pro Click -- seems like on paper it'd be fairly decent for large hands and has 1000 hz polling unlike the MX Master (basically its competitor). That mouse is fairly cheap now too iirc so i've been meaning to pick one up eventually. I've not used it though so take that with a grain of salt.
Vaxee Outset feels bigger in the hand then the DA V3 and fixes the sharp corner finger ledge problem (wheel and cable are pretty rough on the original though/the one I've got so perhaps wireless would be the way to go there).
EC1-CW is about the largest mouse I've used or can think of at the moment.
Which one do you find yourself using more? EC-1 or 2?
Probably the EC2-C though I alternate a good bit. The sad fact of it is the EC2 I know is a bit too small for me while the EC1 is a bit too large. For my hands, my general feeling is that a theoretical EC1.5 would be just about perfect, but that doesn't exist and other ergos similar to that are noticeably worse in other ways.
The EC1 mainly just feels so tall in the hand to me that it sort of hurts of my hand to palm/relaxed fingertip grip after awhile. But the EC2-C is probably a smidge too short in length and in particular too narrow to be perfectly comfortable for my hand size/dimensions so it is what it is.
Both are great mice and it sort of just depends on how big your hands are I'd say. The DA V3 has potential in the sense that a theoretical V4 could come along and fix all my gripes, but as it is now I think it's a worse mouse than the EC2-CW in terms of the fundamentals while being a better mouse in the mouse in core specs area (polling rate/sensor/weight).
Another future hope would be Vaxee -- Vaxee's mice are extremely well built in my experience and I own the Outset which is a great mouse too in its own right. However that mouse the back mouse hump has a raised profile which to me is a bit uncomfortable to palm for long periods because it's just too tall imo.
@@BlindBison Thanks, I've had an EC1 for a while but I just got the 2. And well, I'm in the same boat - 1 is too tall and 2 is a bit small. I want to try the NP-01 and Outset, if they ever restock the wired versions.
@@Scurvyrot I recommend using the RTNGS shape compare tool - the NP-01 shape looks fantastic but it doesn’t really look to be any bigger than the EC2 (regrettably imo). Outset is a great shape but overall I think I order the EC2s core shape - the outset is a bit shorter in length and has a very raised back hump. It’s quite good, but I honestly think an EC1.5 would be better. Don’t want to undersell the outset though best built mouse I think I’ve used/great clicks/unibody shell. Worth trying imo - personally I’d prefer the mouse hump not be so raised/tall and I’d prefer the front portion where the clicks are to be lengthened out a bit but it probably depends on your hands and how you grip - I like it for claw a lot (but I don’t use claw grip I use palm as my main).
@@BlindBison Thanks for the info and making me aware of the shape compare tool
@@Scurvyrot I love that tool, it’s awesome. And np
Try the steelseries prime, it may be what you need
@@Cirkularr appreciate the recommendation I’ll look it up in the shape compare tools! I know I used to love the SS Rival 310 but that got discontinued.
DeathAdder V3 is still my fav, and i have never once felt any of those edges while using it.
It depends a lot on one’s preferred grip type and your hand size. For either smaller (or more narrow) hands or someone clawing for example those issues may not be noticed anywhere near as much.
The thing is, elongating the ledge at least to the end of the click then rounding it off like Vaxee / Zowie do and improving that connecting edge/piece at the bottom (smaller, rounding it like Zowie/Vaxee) would hurt nobody while making the mouse a lot better for some users.
To be clear, I think the DA V3 is a great mouse - it’s just also that certain parts of it honestly feel like a prototype to me in need of further refinement in a future iteration. By comparing the mouse against other ergos, especially Vaxee and Zowie, some of those shortcomings (which may not be a deal breaker for many in fairness) become more apparent and it sort of makes me wonder if they weren’t as thorough in their user testing as they should’ve been during development.
I’m really happy you’re enjoying yours! I’m super picky and sometimes wish I could just enjoy things lol. Overall it is a very good option. Sensor and weight are better than the EC2-C and it has a pseudo unibody shell as well + split trigger switches so some advantages for sure.
@@BlindBisonhonestly, I appreciate all the insights you've had. It definitely has reminded me to keep my mind open to other improved designs available out there.
@@handsomebassman No problem, I just really like mice and keyboards and it’s fun hearing about new ones from other people (then I load them up in the RTNGS shape compare tool). I own way too many and over time some things just stick out to you. Usually one mouse isn’t “better in every way across the board”, usually it’s better noticeably in some specific respects VS another which has its own pros and cons.
Even this video for the DA V3 - yes I’d give the overall win to the EC2-C myself “but” the DA has a number of hard wins of its own (split trigger switches, unibody shell, the slightly larger size is a bit better for my hand size, weight, polling rate + sensor, more natural feeling ledge curve to me assuming one’s fingers don’t come off the end).
I rotate between my mice a lot til one or two things irritate me then I switch lol. Right now I’m using the Vaxee Outset and that thing is extremely well built with incredible click feel (though it too has some aspects I’m not too fond of like the raised hump height being too tall imo + the wheel being not as good as Zowie’s and the cable being like a stick).
And the Pulsar Xlite is better than both
Good to know your view, I haven't used that mouse yet -- at a glance it looks similar in shape to the EC2, but I will say I strongly dislike when mice put holes in their shell (could just be a me thing).
At a glance the price point seems quite fair on the Pulsar site (80 usd for a good quality wireless product is pretty competitive these days).
@@BlindBison the Xlite V3 has no holes except an exposed underplate, the Xlite is simply an EC2 but with better coating/sensor/clicks etc.
@@re4796 Good to know thanks -- I must've been viewing the store page for the V2 then. That's pretty awesome they listened to feedback for the shell. Do you recall what the wheel/middle click are like?
@@BlindBison well, I do own the V2 Mini Wireless, I'm not sure how to describe them, they're average? weighty for sure though
@@re4796 Do you ever accidentally mis-scroll the wheel while pushing the middle click? The DA V3 that happens to me all the time and weirdly how “notchy” light the scroll wheel is is actually a bit different feeling between my wireless one and wired one. Thanks!