2018 Dodge Demon Review | From a Corvette Owner...
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- After spending an afternoon with the 2018 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon here are my thoughts and key takeaways.
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Topics Covered:
Dodge Demon Horsepower
Dodge Demon Price
Dodge Demon Quarter Mile Time
Dodge Demon 0-60 MPH
Dodge Demon vs. Bugatti Chiron
Dodge Demon vs. LaFerrari
Dodge Demon vs. McLaren P1
Demon Crate
Dodge Demon Tire Costs
Dodge Demon Race Fuel Costs
Dodge Demon Insurance Costs
Check out Doug DeMuro's full review of the Dodge Demon for even more details:
• The $100,000 Dodge Dem...
Sources:
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(CORRECTION) This test subtracted roll-out time from acceleration figures. According to Dodge, the Demon would reach 0-60 mph in 2.1 seconds if roll-out time was subtracted.
www.motortrend....
(CORRECTION) This test subtracted roll-out time from acceleration figures. According to Dodge, the Demon would reach 0-60 mph in 2.1 seconds if roll-out time was subtracted.
www.tesla.com/...
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and 2018 Nissan GT-R is 2.7 seconds and starts at $99,990 not kidding haha
I overlooked the new GTR "Pure". Even though technically it is over $100k because the mandatory destination fee puts it at $101,500 I'll still give credit where credit is due. Good find man 👍
I thought that was hilarious haha $10 more would put it out of contention
That is pretty ironic lol.
Cars, Costs and Technology in my area when the Dodge Demon first came out I looked at getting one and they have a dealer's fee or whatever the hell you want to call it to get one here it's a $105,000
That’s exactly what I said before I read the comments!!! GTR
Your videos deserve millions of views. The quality and information that you give in these videos is astonishing. Keep it up!
Thank you!
I like the splash of red. I'm a Chevy Guy, I'm not allowed to say much more.
I've never said the word Demon so many times in my life 😂 Hope everyone had a great weekend! Thanks for watching 👍
I believe they chose to give you 4x the 315 tires is so that when you use the skinnies in the front and go to the drag strip you can use the front 315's as spares for the back.
Right back at Ya! How does the ZL1 1LE stack up to this bad-boy? I'm pretty sure we have them beat as far as pricing (?), though not by much, correct?
Great review.....Just letting you know many guys are getting great results with Boostane in their Demons...approved by SRT and WAY cheaper to use than race gas.
Dirtymax Silverado depending! You get a lot of bang for the buck with the Demon! All depends on what are looking for. Being a true gear head I like all cars, just some more than others. When it comes to cars I don't discriminate! lol I absolutely love the new zl1. If I had the money I'd be like Jay Leno and have one of each!
As a new owner of one of the old school Demons, I'll be topping your count easy
saw a blue demon today here in LA . So crazy seeing it in person and it looks even better in person
Good god man! Great video! As someone who is looking for a Corvette, I appreciate the fact that you include the insurance and cost of ownership! Keep it up!
I really like the current styling of the challenger. There are a few things they can change interior wise but I still like the challenger's body style to this day
kcotte59 man. Sounds awesome
Agreed. The Challenger has that Timeless Muscle Car look. The Vette looks like a spaceship. I think 30 years from now the Challenger will be more VALUABLE.
Rebel Lucy you know what they say, retro styling will never go outta style in modern times. Plus the black goes perfect for the demon with the red demon logo
Great review but the 2.28-second Tesla Model S 0-60 run, and the 2.2-sec Porsche 918 Spyder 0-60 both included roll out. Motor Trend and Car and Driver, include a 1-foot rollout when calculating their acceleration figures. Theoretically the Demon with roll out would produce a 2.1-sec 0-60.
Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention. I do a lot of research leading up to these reviews, but it's always possible for certain details to slip through the cracks. I completely overlooked that rollout was subtracted from those times. Unfortunately, I cannot edit the actual video now that it's been uploaded, but I did update the description of the video and added links/cards to display while it's being played to route viewers to a video with more information on this topic 👍
The 315 tires on the front are meant to be used as a spare set of rear slicks when running the skinnies. That would be a big plus for a strip only car.
Thanks 👍 That makes perfect sense.
Great vid buddy. TY. Would like to drive one someday, but keeping my Z06.
Great vid and presentation. Well done, nicely balanced. I'm a MOPAR guy from way back, and former SRT Challenger owner, but I do have to tip my hat to the Vette as a simply a stunning looking car- would love to try one.
Body was refreshed in 2015. Drag radials all the way around to give drag racers two sets, skinny wheels come in crate. Dodge is also giving owners the opportunity to buy Widebody Hellcat wheels/tires at a lower than usual cost.
As an electrical engineer and going for a bs in mechanical engineering, this car is AMAZING! So cool what they did and how they did it, I am not a dodge fan at all, but this is a car I love
It's great for Dodge to push the envelope. It forces other mfr's to up their game. Now the 2019 Vette ZR1 is being boosted up. Let's see what the ZR1 does. Yeah, I'm a Vette owner but still love the Dodge also. Good Review.
1:40 you can see UPS making a very fuel wasting left turn! :o
M.D. Kev LoL
Lol i work for ups and seen that shit to. The driver seen the hole shot in all that traffic and took it
Lol that's very observant of you 😂 I didn't know that they weren't supposed to do that.
fuel wasting?
A base-model Challenger SRT Hellcat with an automatic transmission skates in at just under $69,000. Add ten grand for High Horse's upgrades and tuning expertise, and you're running mid-nines for right around 80 grand.
I’m a 5.0 mustang owner myself and my dream car it’s a 2014 GT 500, but it would be bad ass owning this flawless challenger. Challenger it’s the real American muscle car, they still keep their style after 10 years 👌💪👍☺️
Quick note: The 0-60 on the Tesla mentioned is with rollout, the Demon number is without. That makes a difference.
The reason why the car comes with a square tire setup is so that you have two sets of rear tires at the track (if you have the skinnies) or to just have two good sets of tires to run at the track (just swap them).
You're right about insurance. I drive both an ATS and a CTS V coupe. When I looked up how much it would cost to insure either a hellcat or a C7, the bump wasn't that much more.
This is the first time I have watched one of your videos and it is definitely impressive. I appreciate all the technical information you include that a lot of people tend to leave out when making car videos.
Thank you 👍
A beautiful review of the Demon! Random fact: The number shown on the passenger side of the dash is the number of the production vehicle produced. There are only 3000 of them produced in the country.
You are 25 years, but sound like a much older and more matured guy. Take that as a compliment!
I was hoping you’d be driving it...
I'm a proud owner of a new Challenger 392 SRT, and it's an absolute beast. More than enough for the street. The Demon is, without question, more impressive however as a daily driver it's impractical for most car owners. Demons are best suited for the drag strip, in my opinion.
I'm going to stick with my Grand Sport Corvette. Great job with the vid!
Thanks man 👍 If I could have a garage full of many different cars I would love to have this as one of them, but if I'm choosing one that can do almost everything well it's a Corvette for sure!
Ozzstar
I'm gonna stick with my 700hp+ roush rs3 too
Smart man
Like he said ,every other car is lighter,and for srt to get that heavy car down the road like that is a great achievement. Just imagine if dodge has that powertrain installed in a much lighter car what it would be like ?
Michael Pincavitch it needs that weight to not end up in the crowds with the mustangs lol
For insurance, and with two wrecks on the record, i got quoted for 292-305 a month by usaa. (292 was low end coverage and 305 was close to max everything)
Ariel Atom 3S 2.8s 0-60 time and starts at $91,775. An even faster version is coming but it will be about $120k.
Your reviews are so much better than others man, U needs a trophy 4real man trust me. And that beast looks amazing. Keep doing a good work bro 👏㊗👌㊗🔥㊙!!!.
Yep, that's why I have a Z07. Should note that the 0-60 2.95 sec time is done with the 8L90 transmission (automatic). So, for all you manual guys who say that an automatic dulls the driving experience (I have three other manuals: Viper, STi, S2000).....uhhh....you're wrong. I was driving my Z07 yesterday, pulled out to pass a string of cars, and let the auto work its magic with my foot on the floor. There is absolutely no way I could have done what I did in a manual, and after I pulled back in my lane I laughed out loud and said, "How's that for a reduced driving experience." hahahahaha......until you do something like that with the A8, you have no clue.....
I dont see how people can hate on this car. The price. The times compared to other cars 2x 3x 19x the price. Warranty. Only thing i hate is that its not a permanent model.
Let me know when it can take a turn without rolling over
I enjoyed your video. The in depth info was great but you forgot to say the challenger looks badass. In my opinion no current production car looks as beastly and awesome as a challenger. I like the new corvettes but still, no car has the same menacing road presence. I have a RT plus and its not as fast as a mustang GT and Camaro SS but I didn't buy it to race. It has enough hp for me. I see the competition and think to myself, yeah you are faster but my car looks much better. It also has MUCH more room inside. Mustangs and cameras continue to suffer from an emasculated appearance. The 2019 Camaro is proof of that. Keep up the good work.
Probably the best Demon review so far. Thanx.
The Dodge looks better than those other cars listed on the charts too.
I believe the demon has two listings for 0-60, with and without roll out. A lot o 0-60 times are recorded with roll out, and demons is 2.1 seconds
Areal atom 3s is under 3 sec and is in production with stated 0-60 in 2.8 sec and a 10.5 1/4 mile for $90,000
2.3 is with drag slicks on a prepped track with the high octane tune.. Those supercars will do it on the street.. big difference.. The hellcat/demon are tire frying machines on the streets.. I have drove both the challenger and charger hellcat..
No way Man! Sick I'm a little jelly for sure, id like to get my hands on one for a few hours myself 😈☠
Thanks man 👍 I only had a couple of hours to film with it, but still a really cool opportunity.
Great video, and I like your style of being straight in your reviews. I have an '18 Stingray which I love, but always nice to see other cars--even if they are somewhat parodies of themselves, like the Demon. MOPAR has been doing that since the Muscle Car days. Terrific straight line performers; something to be desired in other aspects--and they weigh 800 pounds more than they should.
You are 25 years old doing this review..? GREAT JOB. If you told me you were 50 I would have believed you...LOL Great review...MOPAR MATT
West coast some 76 stations have 100 octane at the pump. About 8-9 bucks a gallon as of today.
Mopar or no car.... except I still love the Vette. Awesome review!! LOL’d at the fuel cost 😅😂
Mopars take corners like a carnival cruise ship so nah
I wounder how the Stingray, or another High Performance Car would do against the Demon if they had the same Tires,..I know the Demon has it very own set, Say a car with the Exact same compound. I guarantee the Results would change and be closer to the Demons if not surpass it in Performance,..
The Base model Ariel Atom (MSRP $49,980) does 0-60mph in 2.9sec. And only gets faster as you go up in trim level/price.
This is the only color I would ever consider on a demon. Pitch Black 🖤
The first r35 GTRs beat 3 seconds under 100k but Nissan jacked the prices up the following year
With Most car manufactures using launch control, 0-60 times is starting to slowly fade as the best indicator of pure speed and acceleration. 1/4 mile time would be a better measurement
I agree that an 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile time would be a better measurement of real world acceleration, but many manufacturers aren't releasing those times like they are with 0-60 mph times making it harder to compare based on those numbers.
Great video👍 id like to see a full comparison on a road course not just straight line, to see how it compares with other cars in the same category
Thanks 👍 Not sure if you caught the end of the video or not, but I pointed out that with it's high ride height, soft suspension, and heavy weight it would really struggle off of the drag strip.
Cars, Costs and Technology yea i did but it would be a good video to see it in action of how bad it would be say on a time trial run on a road course in comparison
Backyard Chevy with only this car in the class the only reason to do something like that would be so a Chevy guy would have something to crow about, how one dimensional this car is now if you want to put it up against a copo Camaro or a drag mustang to see how a street car could compete against Chevy and Ford drag cars that would be an interesting idea. To bad GM would never make a car like this they don’t have the balls like they did back in the 60’s
yea it definitely reminds me of a refreshed muscle car of the 60s early 70s...if they do come out with a similar GM car I'm sure itd probably have to be based on the popularity and how the sales of the demon end up going.
Backyard Chevy GM lost me long ago when they cut the Oldsmobile brand but if they made a Muscle Car they would get my money as long as it was along the lines of a chevelle I’m to old to try and fit into a Camaro and my back would hate the ride I own the challenger for those reasons dodge is making the last muscle car.
That kid over at "The Tesla Racing Channel" has done 2.3 second 0-60 and 10.4 1/4 mile times, but in a stripped car with no back seat, upholstery, sound deadening material, or "fronk". Still pretty quick though.
I think this is more relevant to the American market with its tradition of drag racing. In Europe it is more handling and maintaining high speed.
I love my ZR1, but I love how loud the Hellcat and Demon whine
Great review, Watched a couple other videos, I like what I see, you Sir have a new Sub!
Thanks man 👍
This color matches the demon perfectly
Uh, the Demon is NOT a 9.65s 1/4 car stock. The video is right here on youtube where the owner of the 9.65s world record holding Demon tells the camera all about how they used a professional track prep company that is one of 5 companies in this country that can prep a track the way they did to get a 9.65s 1/4 time. It's not like you can just hop in an run a 9.65..it's real-street a 10+ second car. Just google the demon owners forums 1/4 mile thread. Without E85, tune, pulley, tires, bolt-ons...the demon is consistently a 10+ sec car.
This is all great..Now for a little dose of reality. The Demon is a fast factory car this is true. A good friend of mine has a very streetable 1999 corvette that he originally bought with 130000 miles on it. With about 10K in up grades..he did all the work himself..it will touch the high 9's with slicks..without a super charger or juice. Total investment 23K..it still goes around corners too. So before the Demon drivers start getting frogy just remember sleepers are everywhere.
I love how your insurance for a demon is less than what I pay for my 2015 V6 mustang here in NYC. I'm 25 too, no tickets or accidents.
That's crazy, my wife's 2016 honda costs us 300 every 6 months. Hell i pay 4k a year for my semi, and my engine alone is worth as much as most people's cars lol
Blue devils corvette i think was built in 1999 with 900hp; did 0-60(1.9) and 1/4 (9.0) seconds at 150mph !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Motor Trend did the article.
Stumbled across your videos a few days ago and its wild to see a youtuber that is in my stomping grounds lol. I'm in the Greenville area myself and have recently been talking with Fairway Ford about getting a Mustang GT. Keep it up man enjoy the videos, just thought I'd say something since its not often you find someone on RUclips from your hometown area I feel like lol
That's awesome man! Let them know you saw my video 👍 I normally deal with Chris to set up my reviews.
Can't really compare 0-60 times. I mean the demon has slicks while all the other cars are on track tyres. The demon with track tyres probably wouldn't be able to get under 3s 0-60. Also if you could fit slicks on alot of supercars they'd run insane 0-60 times but you can't get anything decent on due to the massive breaks limiting the rim size to 19/20 inches meaning the tyre size is tiny. But still yeah it's impressive for a stock road legal car, but you have to remember those numbers are under absolute perfect conditions on a drag track and a lot of the super/hypercar numbers are repeatable in the real world
Torque gets you to 60. HP gets you top end. How do the cars compare torque-wise?
Dodge overstated this car's acceleration. They should've been a bit more conservative with the Demon's acceleration figures. Personally, I do not believe the Demon is quicker than a Tesla Model S P100D from 0-60mph. And I call into the accuracy/veracity of the recording device used to measure speeds at the drag strip where this car did the "9.65s" 1/4 mile pass. Dodge claims the Demon is quicker from 0-60mph than the Tesla Model S P100D because it didn't use the 1-foot roll out rule which Motor Trend used when it tested the Model S P100D. However, Motor Trend could not confirm Dodge 0-60mph claimed stats for the Demon, despite using its usual 1-foot rollout rule. And, so, what does that tell you?
CCT, not to demote what Demon has done but there is a big asterisk to that 0-60 and to the 1/4 mile time. You need race gas and tune, which none of the other cars need, and the stats were done on a Dodge-prepped 1/4 mile track with very sticky compound prepped on the surface. Again, still very impressive by FCA, but that is one big down side because you can't just hop in and drive over to the local drag strip and make these numbers like other cars in your chart can make with their numbers.
Unfortunately, most performance stats posted by manufacturers are all recorded in absolute perfect conditions with professional drivers. With that being said, I do think it would be easier for an average Joe to reach 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds in a Bugatti Chiron than in a Demon, but neither is going to be easily achieved without the right circumstances.
Thought about a Hellcat after I got rid of my 16’ gt350. Opted out and ended up going with a zo6. Now I’m at a crossroads and wouldn’t mind getting into this.. decisions decisions
Its on drag radials,using a trans brake obviously ther other cars dont have that set up.Put a p1 on drag radials and watch what it runs.The 720 s ran a 9.90 at 141 mph.
Another big 👍's up on the vid quality and content. Love the graphs as well. Just one question for now, can you order one with a manual transmission or are they all automatics? Save the wave.
Thank you my friend 👍 These are only auto for now. Some of the drag racing extras utilize the paddle shifters, so they probably didn't want to spend too much time reengineering them for the manual option that's available for the Hellcat. I hope you're starting to get some decent weather up in NJ to get the Vettes out 👍 It's really warming up here in SC.
Thank you Robert. Well, with the type of hp the Demon has, the auto is probably the way to go, but I'm still a three pedal guy. For straight lining the auto sure works, just point, hold on with both hands and shoot. 😁
As to the weather, well starting with the last week in February into the first ten days of this month we virtually experienced snowmageddon with two different storms with the 2nd one bringing in gusts of 70mph. Not good. But just today I had the GS out in a "warm" 26 degree morning. lol If you need to beat the heat, come on up for a couple days, no A/C needed. 😁 Plus, I could use your video talents. You may remember I have a '76 restomod that I had built, well I've decided to sell it. If you need to refresh your memory, you can look at some pics of it in that I had it transported down to Conte's Corvettes and it's up on their web site. contes.com/ Stay safe and don't make us Yankees jealous with your next video showing you driving with the roof off. LOL
The hypercars come with sticky street tires or cup track tires, the only reason the Demon can get 2.3 is because it has drag slicks. Give a 720S drag slicks and it'll run 9.4 easy.
kcotte59 I bet your bank account says otherwise
In 2002 camaro made the zl1 which did 0 to 60 in 2.7 seconds. I found you a production car under a 100k
For $85,000 I could build a car that goes faster for half the money. For what it is though it’s a great out of the box fun car for people that just want to have fun easily.
Excellent review by a fellow Corvette owner...can't wait to see one in person
Awesome Beast and review! Can't believe Ford said last week the 2019 GT500 Venom Kills Demons LOL! We have to wait and find out if this will be true!
Xluben's bugeye went 0-60 in like 1.85 seconds and I'm sure he spent less than 100k on his total build 😂😂😂
Just over $2000 a year to insure a demon? Bruh... Where I live (Ontario Canada) it costs over $6000 a year to insure a daily driver if your under 25 and on your own insurance.
Does the car do those numbers off the showroom floor? Some say yes, others say no. I've seen reports of Demons being no faster than Hellcats and that the numbers Dodge throws out is if the car is ran in absolutely perfect condtions and on gas you probably can't buy at your local gas station. The Demon is a cool car, but I think that anyone who buys one, drives it off the lot and expects a 2.3 second 0-60 pull or 9.65sec quarter mile is going to be sorely disappointed. On a perfectly prepped track in perfect conditions and a damn good driver, maybe. On summer tires just cruising down the road, no way.
Nice job pointing out the insurance, fuel, and other associated costs.
Should post lap times it can do with those skinny tires upfront lol i know its pre shit around the track but in straight line i dont think avg consumer would getvthat high 9 sec 1/4mile even with swapping tires and all. Sick car from dodgr mad respect that they make these things still soemwhat affordable but imo too much money for this thing. Main reason is if u want a drag strip beast itll def cost you less than 100k and with that money saved u can still have a used hellcat for daily use on the roads if you like the look and feel of this car.
The Demon can only do 0 to 60 in 2.3 on a drag surface that has glue on it all the other cars do them normal roads.
Very impressed, almost all info on the car. All other reviews leave important info out and info is not correct.
Thank you!
Most beautiful thing in this car is its light...
Yes the Demon is impressive, so is the racing fuel you need to get to the full HP and the cost of it. U can just go out there and buy a Hellcat. Spend $10k in mods and u will be faster than a Demon on pump gas 91 Octane. Just saying..
Theres a lot of hype about the demon on paper but I have yet to see it win a race lol
Best video I’ve seen so far on the Demon! 👍🏼
Awesome 👏 review
Thanks man 👍
Am I the only one that feels like you have the tires reversed on the car? I don’t know if it’s the angles you’re filming but it looks like you have bigger tires on the front rather than the back.
Another great video...glad I took a chance on your channel like I told u in my previous comment. Also, as far as competition, I'm a Ford guy mostly so of course am ssoooo excited about the GT500 which, according to Ford personnel, Venom kills Demons.
Thank you 👍 I'm excited for more details on the GT500 also. It's looking like a pretty awesome car from the leaks and teasers so far. Thanks for watching!
I can't wait for the GT500 either.. it sounds amazing. But, Ford personnel must not be very bright, because Venom kills humans. I thought that the exorcist is what kills demons.
John Doe seeing as Dodge' s car is probably neither a Demon nor alive, I guess whatever really kills demons would be unimportant. Lmao
Richard Sak Hey man the Dodge Demon is way better than that new Shelby GT500 trust me. This beast is another level man!!.
Eugenexs Paull I'm a Ford guy BUT I can be open minded. That said I believe the GT500 hands down will be the better ALL AROUND car. It's no secret Dodges focus is drag racing and that's what the Demon is for. Its not going to hold a candle to the 500 when it comes time to TURN. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the Demon can't be driven in normal street driving but in that scenario these cars never see their limits. However, on a road course track, the 500 would destroy the Demon. That brings us back to the drag race. Can the 500 beat a demon? Maybe. Prob not bone stock as the Demon is delivered to drag with the proper tires. However, if the cars didn't have to be bone stock AND a tire change is allowed, the 500, I believe, will beat it. Yes if estimates are correct the Ford has slightly less power and torque but it is also way lighter. There are plenty of videos where a GT350 keeps pace with a Hellcat. The Hellcat wins but not by as much as you would think and the Hellcat has A LOT more power. The gap in power is potentially a lot less. Even if the Demon won, I'll take the overall car that can handle AND go fast. Demon still a great car. I'm a Ford guy BUT don't HATE the other makers. How could you? This is the BEST time to be a car guy. The 60s is no longer the era of HP wars, we r living it right now and it's AWESOME!!!
Put the rear spoiler on rams to be raised up and down.
THE BEST ENGINE AND SOUND V8 EVER !!!
2.3 on a prepped track. There isn't a driver out there that can get that demon to 60 under 3 seconds on normal tarmac
Man, what a monster!!! A little different than the Demon from '70 matched against a Ford Maverick here on y/t ;)
Any used gtr can go sub 3sec 0-60 for way under 100k. Of course they are like 130k or more brand new but they loose value like crazy. Can get used gtr's for 45-60k easily.
315 all around so that you get 2 sets of rear tires for the drag strip
myt hope is that they take the wide body build and offer a AAR track car with the "normal" hellcat motor im sick of ford / chevy only battles on track cars . if we go al dream cary 07 quad cab Dakota hellcat 6 speed stick 4x4 with jeep removable roof panels and still tow 5k
So evidently they make this bad ass car but don't make directional Brake rotors! They must only pop one type because the ones on the passenger side are going the wrong way.
I don't think you can compare the demon to any of those other colors as this car was basically made to drag race it has a trans brake it has a very low top speed the car was made to go 0 to 60 fast zero to a hundred reasonably quick but you can't compare it to a Bugatti or P1 or even a Corvette cuz those work in the real world the demon isn't getting anywhere close to its 0 to 60 time on the road
Could this be Dodge's prelude to seriously reentering drag racing in the Pro ranks?
Demon reveal was nothing compared to the ZR1 debut .....🔥
😂😂 The ZR1 got the real red carpet treatment 👌
Lol!!
Jake - Lol 💯
The Dodge can only achieve a 0-60 mph time at the drag strip with optimal conditions and the added tune with the small tires up front and no passenger seat. On the street, the Demon is getting dusted by the competition. 😂😂😂
What every company does for their 0-60 is their average. Dodge did the best that they managed to do with perfect conditions and a professional driver. It’s not as good as they say
It seems to me they could benefit from an advanced adjustable suspension system...making it a better, all-around driver....but I'm sure that introduces other undesirables, or else they'd have done it.
Being nearly 55 with a perfect driving record, my insurance costs would likely be fairly livable.......not that that's going to happen any time soon, haha!
Good research on your part.
It also only achieves that on the strip. You’ll be luck to get sub 3 on regular road