System Fails to Identify Narcissism in Time | Seung-Hui Cho Case Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2022
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Seung-Hui Cho?
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I was on campus that day, walking back from a molecular biology class when all of a sudden police vehicles started coming in from every direction. I was quite close to where the second attack occurred (Norris Hall) when an officer said there was an shooter on the loose and we started running. The rest of what I saw and heard is still extremely hard to put into words so I'll leave it there, but for me personally, a piece of my youthful spark left me forever. Getting over the acute trauma of an event like that is not the hardest part; you attend wakes, funerals, and memorial services while being mostly numb and detached, but the long term is where I struggled the most because the world necessarily moves on while myself and others were still searching for the reasons why the tragedy happened in the first place. After a few years, I realized there will never be "closure", it just is, and I gave myself permission to move on. The lack of closure for the survivors is the first thing I think about whenever these mass shootings occur, but you get out of bed the next day and just keep going.
Did you see him there?
Did you witness any
dead bodies?
There have been so many similar tragedies since then here in the US that I'm not so sure the rest of the country is entirely passing by anyone directly affected anymore. I think every American is dealing with the surreal trauma of mass murder, to some degree. That's especially owing to the small children that have been killed since Virginia Tech, at Sandy Hook and Uvalde.
My prayers are with you. I pray for your healing and that you help others heal from trauma such as this. This event must have been absolutely terrifying. I don't understand the need to harm innocent students and staff members because of one's own pain and trauma.
I live outside of Richmond, with many youth attending VaTech. I can’t imagine what you had to go through. I remember every year and make sure to post about it.
It makes you think that we will all end up there in the end.The end should not be cut short I see how you feel about it.Makes you look at this world totally different. I remember when I was a kid we never knew about this stuff and it happened.
How can psychologists assert that someone is "not a danger" when they can't even meaningfully communicate with that person?
GetMeThere1 - they can't. To begin with, only stupid people believe that psychologists have special predictive expertise when it comes to predicting future behavior. They don't (nor does the profession claim to have such expertise). Also, what would be the expiration date on that prediction? Surely, you don't believe it would apply for the rest of the life of the person for a patient who saw a psychologist for a few weeks as a 12 year old?
Not to mention, most women are murdered by their husband who never had a mental health diagnosis. And you are also okay with soldiers killing people from other countries with guns so long as they do it in a military uniform. In fact, you and others praise those gun-toting killers, don't you? So long as the government endorsed the gun murder, you're good with it, right? So you're really not upset about people getting shot by guns. Only if the victims aren't enemies of your government. Got it.
Enchilada?
@@megatherion2695 yes.
psychiatry isnt a science, DSM5 does nothing to prove "danger" as no crime has been committed
idk i feel as if alot of these doctors are terrible at reading people
The fact that he chained the doors shut is chilling. That takes a lot of rage, less impulse ,more planning , the more hate, the more methodical Thanks Dr Grande
White people do it first with errors meanwhile Asians can take the same thing and make it more efficient
That’s why you get the death penalty for Pre meditated murder as compared to like temporary insanity….
Taco?
Why are the failures of the mental health junk voodoo quack medicine not mentioned? The medical science deemed him no harm to anyone. How many times people need help and don’t get it. I heard that he suffered from extreme racial discrimination and bullying and even gang stalking which was sanitised out of the package he sent to the networks. Gang stalking is able to turn someone non-violent and good at school into the spiral downwards he displayed near the end.
I am just speculating about him. BUT the only thing we know for a fact that doesn’t require speculation is as you said, he literally wrote about this like Nick did in Florida, and that military dude did at the airport (forgot where) all of whom gave blatant warnings. So either quackery is a joke, OR the clinicians were negligent like so many are that I have encountered first hand…. OR they wanted him to commit the murders
Yeah.. smh has nyone else ever done that?
I think his roommates deserve a lot of credit. It seems like they tried hard to make him feel included and cared about despite his bizarre behavior. They sound like good guys.
We all need roommates like them
*Were good guys
The roommates deserve a lot more credit for simply being his roommates. I wouldn’t want to sleep in the same room as he did and thinking what he would be doing or thinking while I sleep.
They do seem like good dudes. The main roommate of his was in a documentary about the shooting, and it seemed like he really did care about Cho and try to help him.
I think from what I read about this case was they just assumed Cho didn't speak much English, so they didn't even attribute his bizarre behaviour to something wrong with him; just a language barrier. If everyone made assumptions like that, I think the world would be a nicer place.
He was terrible news since the beginning, I’m scratching my head about how he was able to get guns even with all the mental health history and bizarre behavior.
Yes I don’t understand how he still had his firearm rights after being involuntarily committed. You have to go through a restoration process, which I don’t believe he did. Maybe he was committed as a minor?
Because America
There is nothing to scratch one's head at. Also not even slightly surprised the Dr. didn't mention this.
Like wtf right? Don't give guns to criminals and the mentally ill. This was avoidable, he could have killed a few people without a gun though but many less of course.
@@graysonwilliams4826 Virginia actually changed their laws on that because of this case
I was in middle school when this happened. My gym teacher's daughter attended VA Tech. She and her dorm-mate had an argument the morning of the 16th, so she decided to skip class because she was too upset. Cho opened fire on the class she skipped, and the chair she always sat in was penetrated by bullets. It hit WAY too close to home.
Lol thats crazy.
Wow that’s crazy talk bout close calls guess that’s why ppl say every thang happen for a reason
Damn! That’s crazy! She was lucky! So unfortunate for her classmates and teacher.
Yeah right. Great story. You should be a writer. Nobody believes you
You shouldn’t believe everything you hear. People will say anything to get attention
So he had a history of disturbing behavior yet was still able to access guns? I'm appalled yet completely unsurprised.
Gun laws in the US are aggravating. Society should
seung hui cho was bullied in his school many of them mocks him in his accent everytime he speaks and shouts at him to go back to china everytime he answers a question wrong then also mocking his eyes calling him chingchong
He was bullied by “disturbed” individuals. Racist narcissists who would endlessly target him. He had enough
First of all he was mentally ill from a long time, he was showing signs but his parents didn't care because in Korea mental health is locked down.
@@infinitewarr1or699you are completely ignorant. Doesnt surprise me tho. Duuurrrr ban all the guns duurrrr! If banning guns worked then CA would be a Utopia instead of the hell on earth that it is. These progressive ideals are literally killing the state and all the dumb residents are leaving to other states (like mine that definitely DONT want them) and killing them as well with their stupid ideas and woke agendas.
I suffered from selective mutism from age 2 to 15. The social anxiety and fear of communicating with people were crippling. At the same time I desired human connection and relationships. When I was very young in the 80’s selective mutism was described as a condition where people don’t want to talk. It wasn’t until 2004 that more research was done and confirmed that there was no lack of desiring to communicate, it was fear and anxiety holding the person prisoner. In elementary school and junior high, teachers and kids and my own parents would humiliate me and demand I speak, making a huge embarrassing scene. My throat and body paralysis did not let me. I grew up thinking I was defective and felt immense shame. I am still healing and growing. It makes me sad that healing never came for Cho but of course, I feel more deep sadness for the victims and their loved ones.
Hey there! I grew up in the 90's with SM (ages 2 to 17 for me), and experienced much of the same things. So sorry to hear about your experience and I wish you the best with your healing. I've heard many peoples' stories of their SM at this point in my life, but yours has been the most similar to mine. Including the misconception that I was willingly choosing not to speak.
@@SydtheKyd thank you. It’s good to know there are kindred spirits out there. I wish you the best too in your journey. ❤️
Mu heart goes out to you my friend. I had a student for many years. She started speaking one word sentences in 3rd grade. She had a language disorder.
Leave the past behind. The future is the key to your happiness.
@@alicemungia1642 "Leave the past behind" is truly key yet, for many, it's so very hard to do.
@Edwin I'm so sorry your teacher labeled you. How ignorant and mean can a teacher be?! He had no right to do that.
*YOU DID IT!!!!* I had been asking you to cover this case for ages!!! Dr. Grande, you’re the best!
relax buddy
@@francisd7081 I’m relaxed.
This is the cutest thing I've seen all day. I'm so happy for you.
@@SavageMinnow Hahaha do I sound that excited? I’m really not I promise 😂 but it is nice to know his thoughts on Cho. He lived in the same town as I did and the murders he committed had a profound effect on our community. At one point I dated a girl whose best friend had another friend who was a victim of the Virginia Tech shooting.
@@jamaaldavis6243 You're allowed to be happy about it and it's totally understandable that you wanted to hear Dr Grande's opinion on this tragic and perhaps preventable case. ❤
This may sound weird but Cho was someone I can relate to a lot, minus the violence part of course. My childhood/teen years was similar to his. I never spoke to anyone, was socially anxious and withdrawn, and never had much friends. High school was the toughest for me because I never had anyone to sit with during lunch and basically just hang out on my own in the restrooms. It was very demoralizing. I also started to develop this weird behavior were I would imagine myself having conversations with people around me and we would literally smile and laugh along with their jokes in real life. it was weird but I didn't notice my behavior at the time and I didn't noticed people were aware of it. I realized later on that this was a weird way i developed as a way to cope with the lack of social interaction.
I did eventually became friends with some people during my senior year but they were awful friends. They were rude and obnoxious and I thought they were cool, so I started acting like them. i didn't realize it but that was a reason why no one like me because I became rude. I didn't notice this up until a few years later.
College came around and the same thing happen, still didn't feel like I belong anywhere not did I enjoy school only plus side is that being alone was considered ok. No one judged you if you ate or sat by yourself. I'm currently 26 now and I still feel like my problem has drastically held me back in life. I really envy people with decent social skills and wish my parents/teachers would've pushed me into getting the help that I needed at a young age and maybe I wouln't fee like I wasted half my life. So parents, please understand that social skills are really important for your child.
You sound very thoughtful. I can imagine it is sad to not have those youthful connections and feel that loss. Yet I also know that you have so much life left to have new and different experiences. 26 is still very young in the scheme of things. I had friendships over the years, though I spent most of my life alone or with friends who were quite self-centered and borderline cruel. I finally decided to leave those people behind and wait to find people who were capable of being a good friend. And slowly but surely I did find those friendships. Don't give up... and take care.
You will still have chances, since most Americans never mature emotionally past their high school days anyway.
I’m sorry you went through that. My story is a little different but that feeling of isolation and being alone is very similar. I was chronically ill as a kid/teenager and around the age of 12, I had to leave school to be homeschooled so I never got to go to high school at all. I barely even left the house for around 8 years. During those years, my entire attitude on the world changed. I became depressed obviously, but also very angry and full of rage, resenting people who got to experience things I could only dream of. Once I started interacting with people again in my early twenties when my health improved which I’m still in now, there was this huge disconnect. I basically didn’t have any social interaction with anyone my own age for that entire 8 years. I have a hard time feeling empathy for people now beyond cognitive understanding of others emotions, or caring about friendship because I went so long without it, it feels pointless to me. There’s this huge feeling of disconnect and dissociation I feel with other people, and I’m entirely self aware of it but have no idea how to even begin to work on it or fix it.
@@MsRuneGirl Big virtual hug to you Avalon. I hope that you can seek out help. What you experienced, the extreme isolation during your youth, is not something to try and manage all on your own. There may be free local resources if money is an obstacle.
Have you been able to see anyone since college, like a psychologist?
Dear Dr. Grande, thanks for bringing light to this case. It’s true that in my culture, Korean or Korean American, mental health issues are seldom discussed because they are associated with great shame. It is not acceptable to have any sort of mental illness occur in the family bloodline. It is more acceptable to cover up or deny these kinds of problems. Hopefully education and awareness will help families struggling with mental health issues of Korean descent.
Mental health and the attitude just deal with it (without tools or guidance) is neglected in all countries. Traumas are past around by family and environment and government is not helping to improve societies. What a shame. So many years in schools and yet we r not being taught about self worth, self regulation, boundaries, how to seek help, how to talk about struggles. Thanks to the Internet some people can start to help themselves.
I hope with each new generation that changes more and more. I think the newer generations are more accepting and knowledgeable about mental health than any before.
:(
It used to be like that in the US. My grandmother didn't want to believe any of the family had health struggles because she took it personally, that it was her fault. But new generations push the culture forward and i know y'all can find the right conversation for Korea.
That’s so sad
I actually kind of pity Cho in some ways. It's easy for your mind to get twisted when you have little to no interaction with others. Obviously doesn't excuse all his bad and eventually homicidal behavior. It must be absolute hell to spend your life isolated like that.
Wow this has been my life for some time now. I left school at young age and isolated myself and now I feel like such a weirdo compared to others my age. I feel like I can't enjoy social interaction with more than one person. I struggle with controlling my emotions and have extreme anger outburts and fantasies of being aggressive I used to even have intrusive homicidal thoughts towards people around me. These problems aren't just from isolating myself but isolation has amplified them.
I don't enjoy being alone anymore and long for some genuine friendships but I need to become more stable in my life before pursuing such relationships because I don't feel healthy enough now to sustain them. But I want affection and connection so badly so I can escape or lessen these feelings and so I can feel normal or as close to normal as I can given all the damage I've done to myself.
I think people like me never had a genuine and consistent connection with another person that we valued and enjoyed. I have never felt like I was genuinely understood or cared for by anyone I have met in my life.
It's a cycle for people like that. He inexplicably stabbed a carpet at the dorm of his friends' friends, getting him kicked out as a result.
They have trouble making friends, and they get angry and self-centered, when they do make some friends, their social awkwardness combined with their angry impulses sabotages the friendship, and their narcasissm doesn't let them see they are at fault for their subsequent isolation, therefore they blame others. We saw this in Port Arthur, Parkland, Uvalde, as well.
@@deadcaliph6414 narcissism seems like the go to label for every bad person it seems. The thing is, society doesnt care about people with mental health issues. You dont have to be a narcissist to feel angry about that if you suffer from the kind of extreme shyness Cho suffered from.
Yes, my life has been much the same way. Very withdrawn, not feeling understood.
@@vice2versa He compared himself to Christ
"Possessed by shy demons ..." Dr Grande, i never know when you're going to give me a giggle. Love your show!
The term narcissist could be applied to many Korean first sons. The heirarchical culture instills arrogance in the first son. Parents typically invest everything in the first son with the expectation that he will take care of them in their old age. Many parents buy the first son a house and pay for his college education. It's not unusual for the parents to demand that older sisters go to work to help pay for the first son's college education. These practices are starting to reform, but they are not dead yet.
An interesting dimension of Korean families, but I think it's not the only one. Is it possible that the coldness stereotypical of Korean families, also played a role here? Big expectations, big investments, but also a cold relationship, devoid of parental warmth? Coupled with his stays in hospitals very early on, is it so impossible that simply learned that the best way to relate to people is not to relate at all?
I have a Chinese friend who says the same thing. But now, with better standards of living, it is just making the men lazy and spoiled.
Almost Irish you speak truthfully about the horrible practice that creates narcissistic Korean males. The part you did not add was the practice of aborting female firstborns. Or female infanticide for any fetus conceived female. I lived in an apartment complex where many couples resided in South Korea. I noticed just two girls living there. This was a large complex. 40 or more little boys played in the parking lots. I felt as if I were on another planet. It remained creepy.
This is SPOT ON. Their conservative and traditional values put a higher value of men and boys even when it's unearned. Women and girls are forced to stay in the shadows of men and boys, regardless of how much better they perform than the men/boys. LGBQT people are considered to be at the lowest rung.
Carnitas?
This happened back when I was 12. I had classmates who lost family members in this shooting. I remember thinking at that time that it was an unimaginable crime. Now today it seems almost expected. Really sad how little we’ve done as a society to prevent these things.
What exactly are you expecting society do about it?
Ban "assault" weapons? Cuz he did this with 2 handguns.
Ball all weapons? - There are over 300 million in circulation and no official registry to who has what. So only some people are going to turn them in. Most gun owners value that right too much to willingly turn anything to them.
We already do background checks. It's already not legal to sell a firearm to someone who is mentally ill or has been institutionalized.
Yep it only got worse. Its crazy to think this is normal now. Even elementary school shootings are becoming normal now
Great analysis as always. The biggest misconception of my youth - that narcissistic tendencies don't go along with severe anxiety. Untrue. This guy was creepy and deeply disturbing, but I have a slight sympathy towards him. The combination of having social anxiety and narcissistic traits is a really tough place to be. Failing in social settings is a profoundly painful experience for any teenager, especially for a narcissist. Obviously, it's not an excuse to go and kill people.
Maybe he was also traumatized from his early childhood experiences - being hill, hospitalized, powerless, alone - and never treated for that.
This description of his medical situation is so very heartfelt. Too young to understand what was happening to him.
His family was apathetic.
"fragile narcissism" is well documented and a really interesting phenomenon. Turns a lot of our ideas about narcissism on its head.
How wonderful you all feel this compassion for a mass murderer without even mentioning any of his dozens of innocent victims.
It’s so tragic that some of his classmates and professors did the right thing by making authorities aware of their concerns, and it’s the people in authority who should know better (law enforcement and mental health professionals) who dropped the ball.
In this case law enforcement did what they were supposed to do. It was the mental hospital they took him to that dropped the ball by releasing him.
Doesn't it still come down to whether or not you can convince law enforcement and officials who can commit individuals to being locked up on mental health issues that someone is a threat to others and/or themselves.
feelthejoy - the idea that every tragedy involving firearms should somehow be accurately forecast and prevented by the government is ridiculous. Do you demand the same high bar when it comes to car accidents or medical malpractice or any other areas of life are that result in death or serious injury? Why just guns?
Why do people demand 'zero deaths' when it comes to mass shootings yet gladly accept the inherent risks of numerous other activities in society that result in tens of thousands of deaths ever year, whether it's mass transit, swimming, driving a car, sky diving, sports, etc.
The fact is, mass school shootings are extremely rare events that result in fewer deaths than bee stings.
@@bionicpuma2920 I literally didn’t mention guns in my comment.
@@feelthejoy - no, but your comment implicitly stated your outrage over what YOU KNEW was a gun crime. An outrage you apparently do not share in any other mode of death whether it's drunk driving, drownings, medical malpractice, pedestrian deaths, etc. In those deaths, law enforcement somehow doesn't "drop the ball" in those cases... only when it comes to school shootings. Correct?
And yet again, the casual way Americans talk about obtaining very dangerous firearms so easily, especially very young people. Extraordinary.
Cho attended my high school for one year before transferring over to a neighboring high school for the remaining 3. He grew up in the same town that I grew up in. He attended school there a few years before I did, but it’s still harrowing knowing he roamed the same exact halls at one point.
Are you makin fun of Saint Cho?
Yeah I went to the same new high school at the time that Cho went to but I never got to meet him.
Why did you tease him?
stop spamming troll
Everyone went to school with someone who was different. Maybe if we had all tried a bit harder to understand we would be less uncomfortable hearing this?
In my experience, parents don’t want to admit that their kid has a psychiatric or personality disorder. My parents flat out refused to admit that I’m mentally ill (bipolar) and instead said I was just stubborn and refused to be normal. Parents that disconnect from what their kids need and tell them is a big part of the problem. They won’t see the red flags because they refuse to.
How old are you? I think that you may be actually suffering from a new trend of diagnosis seeking behavior, a form of hypochondria. Its weird to me that people these days, specifically teenagers are determined to think of themselves as mentally ill. I think it's due to our culture worshipping victims and marginalized groups as heroes.
Just live your life. I don't think you have bipolar and I don't know why you're determined to be validated for it. No one cares. Your parents are probably right.
I know you'll probably be steaming from anger from reading this, but just relax. You don't need to be diagnosed with anything to be valid. Good luck.
this is true especially amongst asian parents as well
Did your parents ever come around and accept it??
The longer I live, the more grateful I am for the parents I have. They knew something was "off" when I was a few years old and were told by a doctor, essentially, "There are people whose kids are in pain and dying but your daughter is perfectly healthy. You should be happy." This was in the early '80s so they didn't have other options or resources to learn what might be wrong, and simply supported me the best they could. When I was finally diagnosed as a teenager with clinical depression and severe ADHD, it must have been such a relief to them to have some answers and they continued to support me. Unfortunately by that point I had already internalized the belief that I wasn't "good enough" and have only recently discovered the tools to succeed.
It makes me so sad to know that in this future world with much more information available and scientific progress into the understanding of such disorders (for example, knowing that children with ADHD who are specifically taught organizational strategies early on don't struggle nearly as much as those who aren't), there are parents who choose to ignore or deny a child's symptoms for the sake of their own pride or ego.
Here's hoping our world will continue to evolve into one where mental ailments are viewed and treated the same as physical ones. There can still be some stigma in this but not nearly to the same extreme.
Unfortunately some parents are like that due to pride and ego, it’s awful! Did they ever come around and except it?
30 people lost their lives because everyone who could've helped prevent this horrific shooting chose to ignore the big, bold writings on the wall... Parents, if your child exhibits signs of psychopathy and/or expresses a desire to kill please don't ignore it...
That's not quite fair to the people around him. A lot of people did try to help him
30 people died because he could buy guns.
Wold Trey - I guess you missed the part where Cho was in therapy for YEARS. Not days, weeks, or months, but YEARS. Maybe the mental health treatment caused the shooting?
They couldn't control what he did. Easy access to guns is the issue and in America that will never be solved
@@worsethanjoerogan8061 The only people who tried to help him was a teacher and his roommates. Cho's parents, the school, and the psychiatric faculty all pretended like there was nothing wrong with him when he BOLDLY THREATENED TO KILL PEOPLE MULTIPLE TIMES.
I have always taken this case somewhat personally. I grew up in Blacksburg and my parents were both professors there. My father regularly taught in Norris Hall, where most of the murders took place. It was sheer dumb luck he wasn’t there the day of the shootings.
@Bfdidc Consider also that it was through the grace of God that your Dad wasn't there that day. Thanks be to God!🙏🙏🙏👍
@@mangafq8 I was just going to say something similar 🙏💖
I'm glad to hear it. What a senseless tragedy it all was.
The fact that he immigrated to the US when he was 8 or 9 is significant. There are probably theories about acclimation and assimilation that speak to this, but girls who immigrate at that age do much better, perhaps partly due to the social skills of girls and the way Asian women are treated in a more welcoming way, in this country at least. A boy immigrating to another country at that age faces not only a significant language barrier, but likely bullying at school, and very little social support. The maladaptive behavior Dr. Grande mentions was very likely aggravated by this displacement. I remember hearing accounts of him not fitting in even in the Korean American church that his family attended. Like many school shooters, the parents seemed completely deaf and blind to the antisocial behavior of their sons.
Well said! Not to veer to far off subject but 8-9 yrs of age appears to be significant for males in general (most I’ve known over my 50 yrs recall some kind of life changing event around that age; divorce, death of a parent, pet, moving, first rejection of a girl, etc=maybe too much emphasis is put on the importance of age 2-4?
When Dr. Grande said Seung Hui got very anxious around his parents' friends I was thinking it's because he quickly learned English and already had a hard time understanding Korean. It happened to me after just two years in the US (we emigrated to America when I was 8 too). I didn't have a hard time assimilating though.
@@kimlarso each age category has different developmental milestone. Each milestone branches out as children age.
The earlier the developmental milestone, the more locked in the response is.
Thats so true, i was in the same shoe, had to dig real deep to fit in, took me years, but eventually managed. Through the course i must have felt weird to a lot of people because my mentality was still foreign not westernised. This conflict was huge, i hated everyone in school. Thought i was superior to them all due to asians having higher standards. To me everyone's moral standards were so low it disgusted me.
Big deal.
The more of your videos I watch, the more I become concerned that I'm some sort of narcissist. I'm honest enough with myself these days to see a lot of very uncomfortable similarities between my own inner workings and the descriptions you give of certain narcissistic traits. I've gotten a lot better over the years at suppressing the more destructive characteristics of my personality, but it still troubles me to see all these mental parallels. All the more reason to take an extra second to consider others before I act. Great stuff Doc. Thanks for the video.
The fact that you’re self aware and worried about it shows you’re not a full blown narcissist imo
We all have some narcissistic traits. But you are aware of them, so it's not malignant, out of control.
Same some vids I've watched have actually really made me stop and think about my own actions.
As others have stated, your introspection & concern for how your behavior can affect others, are aspects rare for someone with NPD. Almost everyone has a few narcissistic traits occasionally or in conjunction with other personality disorders described in the DSM-5. I felt the way you do, and through therapy, I understood better what caused my issue, therefore allowing me to work on the solution. Good luck Thron, you got this!
It's normal to see some parallels. I see them too but the one thing that sets me apart the biggest is the fact that I do have empathy. I may think something mean or demeaning in my head, but I don't say it. I'll restructure what I say as to not hurt the other person's feelings... Unless they're being an ass first, then it's free ball.
What’s key in Grande’s analysis is the absence of fulfillment, whether from connection to others, or commitment to a goal beyond self-gratification. The shooter struggled to find a goal worth devoting himself to, and struggled even more when he tried to reach the (generic) one he’d picked.
What Grande’s analysis fails to note is that the people who get tagged as narcissists are the ones that miss their mark. If someone aims high and hits, we usually don’t hear much about his or her narcissism.
That's an interesting synopsis I've never heard that thank you
Think you're right, recently the movement towards a meaningful purpose in life has gained popularity.
What a vicious cycle. Why wasn't the essay about wanting to repeat Colombine a big enough red flag to do more?
We are not equipped to respond to every warning sign or cry for help. So often mental health professionals try to determine who is dangerous to themselves or others only to underestimate that danger. But they can't hold everyone!
It WAS tho. The teacher immediately alerted the parents to seek mental help for the boy.
@@bthomson so flat out stating that he wanted to redo that tragedy wasn't enough to warn people that he was capable of doing such a thing? I'm not a health care professional but that even sets off my alarm bell.
You can not really stop mental cases, but you would hope that something is registered so gun shops can refuse a permit. (Or better do not sell to customers at all).
@@kathymichelle1978 That happened when he was a teen in high school so nobody would even be aware of that. Even if people were aware that wouldn’t have stopped him from shooting up the school.
Here’s what I don’t understand: I have trained many people in the military and security in tactical shooting. This kid was able to perform magazine changes and clearing drills under pressure. This is a difficult skill to master usually involving lots of ammunition and range time. This guy showed up an expert. The accounts I’ve heard say that he proficiently used his weapon and cleared malfunctions/ tactically changed his 10 shot magazines without missing a beat. Highly unusual for some who just purchased a pistol a few weeks before the event.
That is interesting, and weird. I often wonder how street thugs hit anything.
I think he was probably autistic. Guns as one of his special interests
@@helengibbs3153 I agree. But that skill requires a lot of muscle memory that requires hours and hours of practice. Usually requiring a coach or trainer to get the techniques correct in such a limited amount of time.
He had a high IQ unfortunately (and was a sociopath). With all the alone time he had, he probably practiced non-stop before committing the murders.
Actually it is easy. 30 minutes with a weapon and anyone can master it. It’s the training industry that over sells it, guns are easy to operate even by a novice.
This person, like other mass killers gave pre-warnings. Steps should be taken to find these people in the community and curb their risk. Here there was a person who went quiet so he would stay under the radar. His tutors set off alarms but they were ignored.
He didn't "go quiet" selective mutism is the bodies defense mechanism in response to overwhelming social anxiety & trauma. A person suffering from this affliction may wish to speak but literally cannot physically do so
@@annastarr2043 however it may be explained, this guy gave many signs that all was not well for a very long time. He made choices. He had every chance to get help. He could communicate enough to get what he wanted.
May be we should stop letting so many people have guns!
@@ellenfoster9764 Yes, there should be a more formal and careful vetting process. Enough is known about the profile of many of these killers to be able to minimise the buying of guns by nut jobs. It may not stop all of these disasters but it will reduce them. Once a psychopath starts to get a record, they offend in ways that make them stick out like a sore toe. Perhaps it is not the people who buy guns that should be focused on, it should be the people who let them. One of these horrible little boys had horrific tattoos bursting out of his neck line. That in itself showed he had a screw loose. Whoever did that to him is scum too. They should have seen it as a warning that someone wanted to abuse themself like that.
Many soldiers are "mass killers." Snipers, Special Forces, Navy SEALs. Yet you're good with all those gun murders. LOL. Fucking nutcases.
Psych nurse from Virginia here. My understanding is that the outcome of his TDO hearing was mandated out-patient treatment. He was far too ill for any out-patient program. This is a perfect example of why mandatory out-patient treatment is not a viable treatment option in most cases. Who knows how different the outcome would have been if he had spent some time inpatient with a caring treatment team. So many lives lost and others broken. 💔 Two students who went to school with my daughter lost their lives that day.
I live in Korea now. They were HORRIFIED to learn the shooter was one of them! They held candlelight vigils with flowers and some even APOLOGIZED to ME and I was like, "DON'T APOLOGIZE!" You didn't do S#!t! You're too polite!" lol
Unlike western societies which focus on one's own ego, eastern societies are more about the collective. It's as though each individual is just one organ in a larger creature. When one fails, everyone feels the heat.
@@twistedyogert one need only look at social media or talk to the average ♀to know the modern west has degraded. it started with abolishing slavery and allowing certain groups to integrate, and then they had to let a certain gender vote. now look at our society crumbling apart.
@@twistedyogert
Yeah, that’s why China is a communist country “the collective”.
@@twistedyogert that's really dumb
LOL Did they forget about Woo Bum Kon? The South Korean cop who snapped and killed like 60 people because his girlfriend hit him with a fly swatter?
or how about Kim Dae-han who snapped because he suffered from a stroke and wasn't getting the treatment he wanted so he lit a subway train on fire that ended up killing 192 people.
South Koreans are not all passive, non violent hard working people who keep their head down and never cause trouble some of them are violent scary people.
In the beginning of the analysis is reminded me of autism spectrum with the reactions to not talking and extreme behavior when others come around. My kids did the same before they got therapy
@Edwin thanks for sharing that, my youngest has Autism and much of the first descriptions described her behaviors.
@Edwin i thought cho didn't even talk to his family much. So autism fits better to me.
Wow. I suffered from Selective Mutism from ages 2 to 17. While I did experience a lot of bullying/shame/etc., I never turned cold or hateful to humanity. I felt disconnected for sure. I felt alone. But I empathized with other peoples' suffering - especially other outcasts.
Scarily, from the moment Dr. Grande began describing his behavior during his childhood - I said "that sounds like SM". I'd of course heard of this massacre, but I don't think I ever knew he had SM.
I hope more people can learn about Selective Mutism and learn to be kind to those struggling with it, but I also worry people like Seung-Hui Cho can really derail how the public sees the disorder. Hoping people can understand most of us would never do something like this. :(
Some of us use the term Situational Mutism instead because it's rarely voluntary.
Selective mutism seems an answer for this, it's just anxiety expressed in this manner and can turn into a real communication problem and a root for other mental issues.
My son still suffers from it. Peace & blessings to ya❣️
@@Loud2013 thank you for the alternative, I never liked the term selective mutism.
@@Loud2013 Selective Mutism is better than the previous term "Elective Mutism", which sounds even more like the person is "deciding" to do it. Situational Mutism is a very good descriptor though: maybe it will become the official one in time.
I remember a kid at my high school who was special Ed. He would pretend to be a ninja and once tried to stab me with a pencil and got caught having a long chain he found around the football stadium. Kind of reminds me of this guy because he never talked but no way he would be Allowed to have firearms
S Korea has a culture which combines extremely high expectations along with a brutal amount of bullying. When issues are this serious and sustained I feel inpatient is called for. The stigma around mental illness is worse in Korea. I doubt any series of rather short term therapy could change him outpatient
Always wondered how therapists, clinicians, judges etc feel after they were responsible for the release of subjects that actually do great harm. Also, what are their consequences, how are they held accountable if at all?
1) It would be dumb to hold them accountable. If we hold them accountable for stuff like this, then they would all just over-evaluate patients and recommend psych ward treatment for every patient in order to not be liable if for some reason a patient goes crazy.
There is already an epidemic in many medical fields where doctors overprescribe. The reason they overprescribe is so that they arent held liable if for some reason a patient starts developing something more serious.
And therapists and clinicians are dead broke. They make less money than the amount of tuition you have to pay for Virginia Tech per year. If we want to hold these professionals accountable, we at least have to pay them a living wage.
If anything, we should make professionals less accountable to lower prices for medical healthcare
Sometimes the law, health insurance and other factors prevent them from doing more. Sometimes people are really good at putting on a front and saying the right things in front of certain people.
They cant control whether or not patients lie to them. If someone says no Im not suicidal or homicidal like what else can they do? They can lie to all questions ask and then be discharged. the only one responsible is the one who committed the crimes
I work in this field. When evaluating the possibility of harm to self or others, there are no certainties, only probabilities. In the difficult cases, it’s essential that there is a team effort to make the assessment, and no one clinician holds the entire burden.
In my state, only if a person is an imminent danger to self or others can they be picked up for an evaluation. But someone has to initiate the pick-up order. Even if police are contacted the person can refuse to go to ER for an evaluation. If evaluated AND admitted to a psychiatric facility, the average length of stay is about 5-7 days-if insurance will pay. Insurance companies must approve admission and continued stay. People will not be held indefinitely. Referrals to appropriate level of care do not guarantee admission or continued treatment. Outpatient is voluntary. Inpatient care can be involuntary but a hearing will be held to determine if the person should remain under commitment status. A magistrate will decide status based on what two designated examiners decide. If there is a tie between the two designated examiners, a third person interviews the patient. A person can learn exactly what to say to be discharged. Imminent means an immediate and impending threat. If a person made threats days or weeks prior, it may not be seen as imminent. Insurance companies probably would not approve and inpatient stay if it is not a current threat. If a person shows up at a facility without funds and is a danger to self and/or others, they should be admitted regardless of ability to pay. It is the responsibility of the facility to make certain the person and/or others are safe from harm. Looking back on cases there are usually warning signs that seem so obvious. People do not always take threats seriously. However, many people at Va Tech were afraid of this man and did warn officials. I pray for all the people impacted by these kinds of tragedies.
His hospitalization as a very young child reminds me of the Unabomber, Ted Kazcinski. Can separation from parents at that age cause certain psychological issues?
Interesting observation...I've read about the Romanian orphans, who were extremely neglected as babies and young children. Many grew up to have sociopathic traits. I definitely feel like separation from parents at such a young age could be a factor, it would be interesting to have an analysis of that!
It can, and it does. Always. Unabomber´s mother described him as a normal, happy child before the time he spent in isolation in hospital, and described a dramatic change the hospitalization caused him. He was never the same kid again. His brother who had no similar trauma is a normal, mentally stable person.
@@MrsRitchieBlackmore There was some analysis in a book I had borrowed from a library, it was probably titled Scared Sick in original but I´m not sure because I´m Czech and the Czech title was different. There were some studies about kids highly traumatised from neglect at young age, like the romanian orphans, and the result of the research was their trauma was as deep as in war orphans who witnessed killing in a warzone. So basically it is the highest level of trauma a person can experience, there is no higher level of trauma humans are able to survive.
The stress in childhood also affects physical health a lot, there were studies about civilization diseases mentioned. Autism is also probably caused by emotional neglect in early childhood at least in some cases. There was a part about a boy who basically "imprinted" on a lamp when he was a newborn because he was isolated in a hospital and there were no people around except of a few moments when he was fed and cleaned, so he "bonded" with the only object he could see in the room - a lamp. As an older kid and adult he was autistic and when he was nervous he always calmed himself by looking at bright objects.
@@Mouse_Metal well shit
Out of control narcissism, in its most extremes, could be psychosis. He never spoke, so it is difficult to ascertain whether his social anxiety and repeated rejection induced a protective narcissism. This protective narcissism could also be psychosis. Thanks for you analysis of this case. It was very thought provoking.
He didn’t display symptoms of psychosis though, which typically affects frontal lobe function, cognition, reasoning and logic (noted in all brain illnesses, brain injury, infections, electrolyte and metabolic imbalances, and also can be secondary to legal or illegal substances) He does show severe psychopathy though.
A long awaited request of mine fulfilled! Thank you doctor!
Same here!
I was saddened to hear how he did not receive the mental health and education supports that he needed as a child … I also pondered if he might have had undiagnosed autism (?)… and did not receive the early interventions that could have helped him (?)… Whatever the case, a heartbreaking story. I’m sorry for all those impacted 🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼
I thought the same thing - the not speaking and probably light sensitivity etc. 🤔
Definitely, all that therapy didn't find the right cure
Selective Mutism is often misdiagnosed/misread as autism. I've heard some people believe the two are related, but unfortunately I don't have any data on that. I was diagnosed w/ SM at age 5 (mute from age 2-17), and was constantly mistaken for being on the spectrum and being deaf. I always connected with those on the spectrum fairly easily, and noticed we had a lot of similar experience.
sigh..... same here (I'm autistic too)
I thought that also I'm autistic, I suspect I inherited it somehow... there's also narcissism in my family. My tin pot theory based on my study of 1 being that autism can look a lot like narcissism anyway. Throw neglect, misunderstanding and marginalisation into the mix and you've got the ingredients to grow a narcissist. One made by society rather than design. I do think people can also be narcissists and not autistic and that while people who are autistic are naturally self-focused, it's not naturally about gaining power, dominance and control of others
I love Dr Les Carter's channel Surviving Narcissism. In short he defines narcissists as dismissive, sociopaths as schemers and psychopaths as predators. But they all share some of the characteristics such as lack of empathy, need for power control and domination, etc
Oh that’s a really good channel! His advice is wonderful!
Quesadilla?
@@megatherion2695 I prefer tostada 😆
Narcissism would be a mischaracterization. When you look at the primary 9 traits of a narcissist, “lacking of empathy” is the only one I see here. He was psychotic, plain and simple.
He didn’t have symptoms of psychosis though. He did have psychopathy which is much more dangerous.
q
What exactly do people mean when they say lacking empathy??? Most pwople dont have empathy for people they hate. When someone like Cho feels the world did them wrong due to their mental health issues and feels no one cares, of course they arent going to have any empathy for those they deem a part of the prblem. Cho was full of Hatred, hate is a strong enough emotion to dull any feelings of empathy. Cho said he wanted to inspire weak and defensless people, people with shy personality types like he had.
@@vice2versa yes. Spiritually ill and full of anger, hate, resentment, etc which is reflected in their character and personality. (Mind, body, spirit) Not mentally ill, which is a physical brain disorder that manifests signs and symptoms of abnormal brain function.
@@vice2versa you explained “lack of empathy” perfectly. It’s exactly that, the complete opposite of narcissism is empathy.
That professor who asked to have Cho removed from her class was the poet Nikki Giovanni. I might be wrong but she was also a "writer in residence" at Virginia Tech at the time and her poem/speech at the Virginia Tech Memorial after the shooting is kind of amazing
“Amazing” is not the most appropriate choice of words here given the tragedy context
WAIT SERIOUSLY?!
@@the_emmasculator Yes. She really threatened she'd quit if they don't remove him.
@@agnes4428 I found the article! Crazy crazy! I had no idea she was even at Virginia tech. Wow.
Well nothing related to this. But this just reminded me of how in my middle school I had a classmate who beat up other kids unprovoked. He was sent for psychiatric analysis and was found to have narcissistic personality disorder with sadistic tendency. One of the teacher gave him a leadership role and in the absence of the teacher he beat up one student so badly that he ended up in hospital for weeks. I remember my class teacher went to the principal , threatened she wouldn't come to school till he was removed from school. Ultimately he was removed from school and she resumed her service
Thanks for another insightful analysis, Dr. G. I have always enjoyed your talks about narcissists and the dangers they pose to themselves, their loved ones, and society at large. This is a tragedy that might have been avoided had it not been for the minimizing of Cho's myriad "red flags" throughout his short life, although I guess we'll never really know.
A lot was actually done in this case. More than in many others.
@@bthomson I agree, he was seen and acknowledged for having issues.
Someone in comments said his parents were indifferent. I disagree, they tried sending him to camp, special ed, church activities and he had counselling regarding mental health issues. The latter was difficult for his parents to accept due to their culture. Even so, they didn't stand in the way.
It's sad, knowing what we know, that he was released after his hospital evaluation. It's possible he presented well to the doctors.
@@bthomson THe system had a lot of opportunity FOR SURE. Lots of LOW TALENT IMPOSTERS got paid.
Your material is always so consistent, Dr Grande, but this one was on another level. Fascinating hearing your case conceptualizations because you put so much thought into them. The analogy about the pumps paints how bleak & desperate narcissism truly is. Makes me feel pity for them, but at the same time it’s a slippery slope because their destructive nature will always find it’s way to express itself, taking advantage of that pity. Well done :)
Dr. Livrescu died a hero. When you are putting yourself in between your students and a psycho with a gun, and almost all of your students escape from certain death. I dont know what to say to that other than this man deserves our respect and is someone who really cared about his students. It breaks my heart that this guy was a holocaust survivor and still died because of a hateful bastard.
The honorable General Cho
👍
👍
Ibium Seung-Hui Cho!
Brilliant analysis of a tragic and senseless murder, I wonder if he had been committed to a long term mental health faculity, would the scenario be different. My sympathy goes too the victims, survivours and their loved ones. Thank you Dr Grande. Brilliant analysis, tragic outcome and sad and informative topic.
There are few, if any, long term mental health facilities in existence these days.
@@emilykliemann4346 There are in Australia.
@@cottontails9003 is it free? Hospital in patient gets expensive
@@joincoffee9383 Our hospitals are free to everyone. We have Medicare, it's funded through our taxes if you're a low income, they don't tax you. I think if you earn over $50000 they take a levy out. Also our G.P. bulk bill you so you pay nothing.
Laws vary by state. But In general, in the USA, that type of commitment only happens after committing a serious criminal offense, or when a person is grossly psychotic and does not respond to treatment. Cho was very disturbed, but he was not wandering naked muttering to himself. He was briefly hospitalized once. In the cases I am familiar with, a person may be hospitalized dozens of times before a long term commitment takes place.
Oh Dr.Grande, I feel so loved. I've been asking you for this video for a long time
Wow there was a lot leading up to this. This is such a great analysis and gives a lot more insight into Cho. More than I’ve ever heard anywhere else.
Here are some requests I have, for you to cover if you can ever get around to it, I think it's good to understand why the shooters did what they did, so we can hopefully prevent further tragedies from happening.
Jakrapanth Thomma - 2020 Thailand shooting
Devin Patrick Kelley - 2017 Church shooting
George Hennard - Lubeys diner massacre
Patrick Crusius - El paso 2019 shooting
James Huberty - Ysidro McDonald's massacre
Vladislav Roslyakov - 2018 Kerch Polytechnic massacre (which happened in the same year as Stoneman Douglas, I should add)
Robert Steinhäuser - Erfurt school massacre
Abdulkadir Masharipov - Reina Nightclub Massacre
These are just to name a few, and I appreciate all the work you put into these, hopefully one day, mass shootings will be a thing of the past.
I'm not quite getting the narcissist angle on this one, but I guess to a hammer, everything is a nail.
I agree
In re Cho's narcissism, Dr. Grande says Cho was arrogant, envious, condescending and had fantasies about power. He was feeling pressure to express himself yet all the things he tried failed. The pressure exploded.
the rejections enough to get them to snap and lose reasoning and empathetic connection
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for another video! I live 40 minutes from VT. I remember that day very well. It was so shocking and heartbreaking.
I’m a long time subscriber and was born and raised in SWVA. I remember that day vividly even though I was only in elementary school. I graduated from VT. I was very interested to see this video pop up today. I was aware of some of this stuff, but didn’t know about his life before college. I know hindsight is 20/20, but they really should have closed the campus when the 7 am murders were discovered. I imagine whoever made the call to keep campus open that day was haunted by that choice for the rest of his/her life.
That’s incredible it’s like the captain of the Titanic saying to stay “on course”
That aspect of this case has never made sense to me.
If there ever was an abuse victim who went out with a bang, it was hm.
I think he was HORRIBLY abused by his family members, and turned it upon the world.
Period.
What he did was horrendous too. Period. Tragedy on tragedy for all.
Love this video! I missed the psychology parts that are missing in your recent videos. Glad it's back.
Cho came from an unforgiving and repressive culture . Sounds as if his early childhood was hell for him. His parents were likely over-bearing and demanding as well. A Korean Church was not going to help him. He wasn't strong enough to break away from all that. It all drove him over the edge. This world manufactures deadly killers at a rapid pace.
I was about an hour short of being a victim at the massacre was visiting with my brother for a tour of the engineering building but we missed our tour and had to go to the next one while waiting in the cafeteria police and swat started swarming the campus
It’s no wonder that some people run amok. I remember when I had heavy social phobia and could not respond to people nor look into their eyes. It was a long way to recover and I still struggle in certain situations. My parents sucked in this point as well. He does not deserve my sympathy at all but I kinda can understand him.
Its called having your head up your arse.
Cho has all my sympathies and empathy. He was a rebel for those who suffer from severe social anxiety disorder.
This answers a lot of questions, Dr. G. The analogy at the end is exceptional, IMHO. Thank you for this particularly insightful video! 💯
Watching a video from Dr Grande just brightened my day.
2 points : was he on any medications at the time or during his long history of therapy ? Also how was he able to purchase the guns with his record ? No background checks back in 2007 in Virginia ? More red flags than at a May Day parade in Downtown Beijing
There’s no medication for personality disorders, esp psychopathy.
@@mmfox1 could have been on anti depressants, anti anxiety meds, etc
I can’t say what the laws were in Virginia at the time, but any time I have purchased a fire arm, the main check of the information I have provided is minimal. I say I haven’t committed a felony, I haven’t been adjudicated incompetent, etc. (I haven’t been, fyi). But I don’t know what data base is the source to confirm/deny my claims.
Wow. Thank you for your analysis, Dr. Grande. Such a sad and tragic event. There are no words.
I'm glad to see more in depth videos making a return on your channel Dr Grande
I remember being impressed at the time at how kindly Cho had been treated by his fellow students, both during his years at Virginia Tech and his family in the immediate afternath. It seemed like his roommates really made an effort to include him in their social lives until the carpet stabbing incident--and even after that, they continued to show concern for him while in their suite.
In the first, spontaneous memorial for the victims, the students of Virginia Tech included a stone representing Cho as a gesture of compassion towards his family. I was and still am touched by the compassion of that gesture. Yes, he did a monstrous act--but his family were not responsible for his actions and they did love him. Their grief was complicated by the horror of what he'd done and their shame at what he'd done, so the students' gesture of inclusion was profoundly compassionate.
I love your voice.
I can fall asleep easily while listening to you.
This is a good thing especially since I have horrible insomnia.
Thanks Doc.
This is the most heart breaking analysis I have heard.
Your awesome dry humour offers some lightness to these otherwise horrendous cases. It’s a nice element of your videos that keep me coming back.
Mornings w Grande. Let’s do this. Thanks for an interesting topic and analysis. I really appreciate it.
Loved the analogy of the water pipes Dr Grande, that made it easy to understand. 👍
The water pressure metaphor is a very good one! Too many avenues cut off for expression led to dangerous build up. I do not really see what more could have been done? Very sad and tragic.
My friend, did you watch how a kangaroo gives birth? Hope you are doing well. ❤💙🌷🌷🌷
I do know that the joey stays in the pouch for A long time? 🤔💐
It is winter now isn't it - stay warm!
@@bthomson Thank you my friend, I'm trying, am definitely waiting for summer, don't like the cold weather.
@@bthomson A kangaroo has two uterus, when it's time the Joey, the size of and jellybean climbs out of the uterus, and makes it way too the pouch , latches onto a teat and usually stays in the mother pouch , until it can fend for its self.
I live in Blacksburg I’m glad you did this video
I love how you cover cases that not everyone knows well about! First time hearing about this case!! Nice coverage!!!
This incident was so shocking to the country and painful to the country I felt, that it was quickly swept under the rug. This one was an especially hard one to swallow being that he killed so many. I noticed people were quite affected by this kid’s cold hard face plastered all over newspapers and on TV news those first few days. Then, like that, he was gone
😙👌🏼💨
Your analogy of pipes in a water tank explains how some of the narcissists I know still manage to be good people... or at least come across as good people. Being a pillar of society, helping loads of people, sounding concerned when they're actually bragging. If being good is performance related, they're good people. Just don't get too close!
My best friend's son was attending this school at the time of the shooting and was barricaded in a classroom for quite some time, all the while talking to his mother on his phone.
Long time viewer, seen a very large volume of your uploads. I believe your analogy of water in many pipes for outlets of narcissism is one of your most brilliant yet. Love your work, love your savage humor! Stay well, Dr. Grande!
I think the way you conceptualized narcissistic needs as a faucet was really brilliant. I really appreciate how you always bring it back. Your analysis’s are so insightful.
Thanks Dr Grande, I hope you’re enjoying your summer.
This was a great video. It has me thinking that I can see traits of narcissism in my personality at times and maybe with this insight I can try to work on it. Thank you again Dr. G, incredible as always.
Complex PTSD can look like narcissism. Don't pigeonhole yourself. If you were a narcissist... you prob wouldn't care.
@@TheNotablePath damn. Thank you that might make some sense
I doubt his classmates saw him as Kevin Spacey and more as Harris and Klebold with the use of sunglasses and a hat indoors.
Great analysis and explanation on narcissistic expression
That was the most AMAZING analogy for narcissism ever! Great job Dr. G. 👏🏼 👏🏼 Bravo Bravo Bravo!
Your clear insights are so helpful.
It’s sad…Healthcare system is BROKEN. I’ve had my own experiences similar, luckily nothing to this level, but similar.
Mental health professionals don’t do a damn thing but collect a check for filling a bed for a few days and then send them back home. No treatment, no progress, not a damn care. It takes a damn act of god to get anything remotely close to actual help, and even then it’s half-assed and riddled with incompetence…people wonder why nihilism is on the rise
Max Powers2-0: Mental health clinicians don't have magic wands, and mental health facilities are few & far between, and most likely very expensive. The burden of caring for mental health cases still falls mainly on the family, which has to be very vigilant all the time. It's a huge responsibility for families. But hopefully they care for their own mentally challenged with love and devotion. My husband & l have a mentally challenged son who lives with us, and all of his behaviour is noted, and we immediately try to address any issues, even if it means getting him confined to a facility for a length of time. It's so important for parents/siblings to be responsible for their own. Mental health professionals work with us, but they can't do everything....We parents must be vigilant if we want to avoid disasters.
@@Faristol7 in my situation we had a child who was physically and psychologically abusive to their siblings, and to the parents, who would self harm, and voice suicidal ideations, she voiced desires to hurt her siblings, even stab/cut them with knives and see them bleed, she threatened to kill her sister (whom she shared a room with) in her sleep. She threatened to stab her to death, she threatened to kill the family dog with a knife, she would hit the dog and be rough with him, she fought her mother and broke her nose, kicked me, tried to stab her mother with a pencil. She would run away, sneak out of the house for hours at a time.
And everytime she would be admitted to the hospital we would BEG them for some type of long term treatment because the medication and previous diagnoses were NOT working and they would house her for several days and send her back home. This went on for 3 years. It was literally a nightmare.
@@MaxPowers2.0 I understand that not all cases are the same. I'm sorry.🤷 I live in s different country - Spain - and have had a lot of help from the very good mental health care system we have here, including being able to get our son admitted to the mental hospital when he needed it. Luckily for us, he is not violent - or hasn't been yet - and has never really threatened any of us, although there have been tense situations. We take each day as it comes and, luckily, have a lot of help from his two sisters who, btw, have not had any children of their own. I often wonder if they fear they might have a child like him...??🤔I'm sorry again for generalising, but one thing is for sure - even here in Spain there is no facility we can just 'send him away to' to solve our problem. We've been told those places don't exist except for the mega-rich. So he's at home, and we do the best we can for him. I hope you find a way of dealing with your daughter's problems. Truly l do.
@@Faristol7 appreciate the sentiments. They were some very trying times a truly dismal experience. And the child was only part of it. From mental health professionals, to the courts, to the department of family and children services…it seemed no one really cared, no one was actually trying to help and sometimes made the situations worse just by being petty and messy. The few good people we encountered usually left the field, no one listened to them, or they were powerless…
Im prone to depression and anxiety myself, and the only thing keeping me afloat was the fact that i had a family to take care of, and that I had to keep doing what I had to no matter what.
@@MaxPowers2.0 l'm with you all the way! Keep going strong, Max - you are not alone. We have been in our situation for over 20 years now, and, although we have found a lot of help here in Spain in the mental health system itself, we've found that they're only really good for prescribing medication and admitting patients for a few days or weeks when the going gets really rough.🤷Then it's up to us. Just a strong belief in our family and their well-being keeps us going. And the love we have for them and each other. Please don't let yourself be defeated!👍
Fascinating theory on how narcissism played a major part in this. Thanks.
Nicely done Doc. I really enjoyed the technical metaphor of pressure/force from pipes/narcissist personalities Very fresh and new idea of late. Love, as always 🐈🐾❤️
I’ve been waiting for u to do this !!! Love u
I remember that. I had a dream the night before of his face but had no idea who he was until I watched news the next morning.
What's crazy that I used to have Severe Social Anxiety Disorder, still have Depression, had Anger Issues to the point where I would blackmail people, and used to continually get bad grades, but I turned out nothing like Cho. In fact, I BEGGED to get psychological help. 🙃
Everyone is different
Excellent dry humor Dr. Grande!
It's about time you covered this.
I’d be interested to hear your analysis on the story of Etika. A beloved streamer who passed away in 2019. His story involved the tragic and detrimental effects that having a strong social media presence can have on one’s mental health/wellbeing.
I've been waiting for this one for a while now so thank you! I wanted to add one thing. You stated that Cho was not losing touch with reality, when his roommate's were interviewed they said Cho had explained he had a super model girlfriend living on a space ship named Jelly and she called him Spanky. Have you heard of this before?
I really enjoy your podcasts Dr.Grande.
Great and interesting analysis as usual!
Not the shy demons 🙂😇😇😇😇😂😂😂😂😝”Demons are usually quite talkative,maybe he was possessed by “Shy Demons “😂😂👿😈👺👹! You did it again great Job Dr. Grande!
I had a roommate in grad school that went to Virginia Tech and then transferred to our school after two years.
We, along with one of my friends, went to Blacksburg for spring break in 2003.
That guy sounded like he was going to snap at some point.
Excellent explanation and analysis, very interesting story too.
Thank you for the video.
Very good analogy at the end, how when one motivation gets clogged up another finds its way to the surface.
His need for attention must have been as great as his need to control and to hurt others. Beyond disturbing his narcissism. These shooters are amazing in how they actually think 🤔 they are a victim. Thank you 🤔❤🇺🇸
This one hit close to home since he and I were in the Science Club together in high school, even when it was just a few students because the school was brand new. He was always quiet and polite, would never talk much. I never saw many of the actions Dr. Grande described here like secretly taking pictures of people or acting like an incel (not a term that would have been used back then, of course). Maybe that all developed after we graduated and he went off to VTech, or maybe since the Science Club was hands-on and closely supervised by the teacher it never had the chance to come up. Still seems crazy that he could have gone off and killed so many people.
Did he seem more awkward than most people?
@@infinitewarr1or699 I suppose so, though since I had only recently come out of my very introverted shell myself at the time, it didn’t seem too abnormal for someone to be quiet and not talk much. We also never had to present anything in the club, more just did hands-on experiments that Mrs. Wells assigned us or even played hockey in the hallways with leftover dry ice if it hadn’t all sublimated yet.
@@flamingsickle I used to be called quiet in school. I would dread douchbags talking about it or saying "you're quiet" or "you don't talk much" which just made it worse. Sad to see this shooting a result of douchbags putting someone down instead of helping him
so being quiet makes you an ince|? do you have ⬇ syndrome?
Geez, that’s crazy !
Looking back, were there any red flags that he was capable of such horrific violence?
Great job in this analysis!
This was a tough one, Dr Grande. Great job
Excellent analysis and the Art therapy was an excellent idea for him. Pity he was under the radar for most of the time and with the non communication skills.
Could his deeds have been stopped, maybe or definitely after the stabbing of the carpet incident.
Edit : shy demons lol Dr Grande 👍 👍 👍