I think that time has been very kind to the 360. I remember being underwhelmed when it came out (and subsequently thinking that the 430 was a huge improvement). Fast forward 20 years and I now consider the 360 to be one of the prettiest Ferrari's ever built - and a MUCH nicer design than the 430!
Well said, for years the 360 has been overshadowed by the 430, but to me the 360 is prettier and in my opinion a rawer feel to driving it. Plus lets not forget the 360 was first V8 model to put on display the very heart of a Ferrari, it’s beautiful engine. LOVE the 360 😍
For me the biggest flaw of the 430 is that had to use the 360's glass, so the design was half lower Enzo-esque and angular, but the half top was softer and roundish The 360 i've always seen it as a much purer design
Mostly agree: for me the 430 sort of looks like the Hyundai Coupe designers had a take at redesigning the 360. (The 360 is far from perfect in itself though, granted) When it comes to the practicalities of the actual car, the 430 is probably a smarter buy.
Great review! But in all fairness, you're testing a 20 year old car. Things like brake feel and handling really depend on how it was treated by the owner
I do believe you can upkeep the feel of a car though. Discerning owners will replace suspension parts, replace breaks, baby the engine, etc. You'd have to expect the owner of a special edition Ferrari to be on all of that, no?
ive always dreamed of owning a 360 CS, i remember going to the local ferrari dealership and seeing 3 different ones on display when they came out. its one of the most ICONIC and in my opinion one of the best looking ferrari's 🤩🤩
I had a CS (with hyperflow cats) for 9 years and a Scud for 8 years, CS looks fab but unless you are above 7k RPM the CS TOTALLY lacks torque and was very glad to get rid of it the day I part exchanged it for the Scuderia. The best combination would of course be the CS body with a Scud engine and gearbox. I never really loved the Scud either, difficult to pin it down why so sold it for a 991 GT3 RS, which is a vastly superior car. Just to note though that I have also owned and still do a F430 Spider with those lovely Carbon Racing Seatings and Carbon brakes, this is the best of the bunch, its my favourite car!
The 430 Scud is really a track car. Imo, it's just too immediate and too aggressive to be enjoyable on the street. They are amazing cars in their native habitat, dare I say moreso even than a 2RS or 3RS.
I have driven a few 360 Challenge Stradale's and they are not all built the same. Hell I had driven standard 360's that were faster then a CS. A 991 is 12 years younger then the 360? 360 CS is a collectors car now.
Hi Richard - I currently own a Stradale and came form a 991 GT3. Looking to go back to a GT3 of some description!! I find the Strad a bloody nuisance to live with. Hard to get in and out of, delicate, have to have it plugged in, engine lacks torque and the car generally feels like it’s ready to go wrong one way or another!! GT Porsche product is night and day better - can nail it hard and always works. Just the way better all rounder.
@@SPM2Comp First of all the CS is a collectors item and is going to be worth more then a 991 GT3. There is 10 years difference between the CS and 991 GT3 so comparing the 2 is crazy. The question you need to ask your self Mr Woolfdog36 is why did you buy the stradale after coming from a modern gt3? The 360 CS is twitchy car to drive but if you drive it right its very rewarding. The Ferrari also might need a flash tune if its running ruff or lacking power.
I downloaded 2 pictures of each (430 scud & 360 CS) from Roman's International. Same shot angle and location. And after going back and forth between the two. I'd have to say the 360 CS is a more beautiful design IMO. The flow of the design and the quad exhaust out the back is timeless.
One other significant change from the 355 was a tiny bit of attention to the customer experience in service costs. Whereas with the 355 a cam belt change was an expensive engine out affair the 360 has a cunning access panel in the bulk head between the seats. That lowers the cost (or should) by 70%. To access the battery (jump start etc) in a 355 required the removal of a front wheel! The 360 had an innovative gel battery under the passenger's feet.
The servicing costs on the engine out cars (Mondial 3.4t; 355; Testarossa) was a massive downside on the ownership experience! I have changed from a 1993 Mondial 3.4t to a 1988 Mondial 3.2 because of the huge service cost difference! Typically £2,500 on an annual service at a Main Dealer on the 3.4t compared to £390 on the 3.2 at a specialist in older Ferrari cars. The selection of who services the older cars is important, & using someone who knows the cars through years of working with them is vital. I use Peter Higgins Sports Cars. A Ferrari Main Dealer will charge around £1250 plus vat as their overheads are higher. On an old Mondial I do not consider having a Main dealer stamp in the service book, will alter its saleability! More important is how many miles it hasn’t done! I only buy high mileage Ferrari’s! Low mileage ones are trouble & costly to renew bushes, suspension & engine parts that need more use! My 3.2 is now at 71,250 miles & going well!
@@nickrichardson7451 When I arrived in the UK I was shocked at what main dealers charge for servicing Ferrari. On a current model car it was about 2.5 times what we charge as main dealers in Australia. In my view the Ferrari dealers in the UK are just using fear of non dealer stamps to profiteer.
The sound this makes could tear a hole in the fabric of space/time. I’m also curious how this review would have taken shape, had you not have owned (or driven) the Scud prior.
I drove the CS and a 430 back to back over a decade ago the CS blew my mind. The 430 and 458 do nothing for me. CS is the only V8 Ferrari I care about.
@@adampetten5349 faster is not everything. The CS makes you feel alive! Just like a GT3 RS. Heck even the Gallardo Superleggera and Huracan are more fun to drive then the 430/458.
@@kahmed7328 I agree about Speed. The CS is very quick at 0-200 in 13. It's not until the 488 that you get into ludicrous unusable speed. The Plaid is nearly F1 acceleration for the public. Sounds crazy.
@@adampetten5349 tbh the raw cars just get into your soul. The sound, the shifts etc. fast cars are fun, no doubt. But it’s all about how a car makes you feel.
@@adampetten5349 Faster is not everything. Despite being able to afford MUCH faster car (not a super car), I own a ap1 Honda S2000 just for the sheer raw feeling, excitement, and sound of it. Compared to today's standards, it's a slow car but... man does it make a simple drive beyond fund and exciting.
Last good Ferrari was the last one signed off in purple ink by the old man. Everything since are just flash Fiat's and in the case of the V8's sound terrible.
@Rossi Carmichael All Ferrari flat plane crank V8's sound awful, the F1 engine was a flat plane but that was revving to almost 20,000 rpm so no it does not sound the same. Maybe you should accept that not everyone has fallen for this 'Ferrari V8 Sound' Or you could go on insulating people and trying to make fun of someone's opinion.
One of my favourite Ferrari’s ever made. I’m not a fan of modern Ferrari’s or any other modern car for that matter. Watching your vids reminds me of watching the original Topgear ! 80’s and 90’s. Keep up the great work quality as always
What I've found over many years looking for good used cars is that you can never tell what's been done to them, or how well they have been maintained and looked after. So many buy standard cars and modify them to look like the rare models. The 911 is a favourite car for doing this. Having said that, I have found it necessary in order to come to any meaningful conclusion about a car, you need to drive several versions of the same model to get a good overall opinion of the car, especially as these cars are heading towards being 20 years old. A lot can happen to them during that time.
The thickness of the windshield doesn’t do much for safety in this case, it’s mostly for noise. It’s the laminate that provided safety and those should both provide safety in the same range
The laminate provides one aspect of safety, and the thickness provides another. The laminate doesn't add to structural strength like thicker glass does. Thicker glass helps with rollover protection and rigidity.
@@littlejackalo5326 Are you actually suggesting Ferrari engineers are sacrificing structural integrity in the performance model? One would not be foolish to assume one provides enough safety and structure and the other MORE than enough.
I think you probably gotta a slightly tired example. Bushes, camber, cam belt timing and new tyres make a big difference. I'm on my 2nd CS and still great. Sure Scud is a "better" car as any evolved car usually is, however CS is very special if you drive a good example... Oh and CS much prettier not to mention a rarer sight
I have to agree. Things are just worn out on the car and need to be refreshed, such as ball joints and bushings. I'm not on my 2nd CS like you, but I am on my 1st. :)
Great film. For me the CS is the most unbelievable car I have ever driven. Spine tingling. Made all my hairs stand on end. To be fair I haven’t driven a Scud (only a 430). Love both. If I could I would have both in my garage + a 355 and a Lotus Esprit!
One thing that annoys me about the car community is when certain cars are just so hyped up that the car can never live up to that hype no matter how good it is. Having said that I do think the cs would be one of my favourite cars to drive just based on all the videos I’ve seen of it, it’s the prettiest modern Ferrari I think and the driving experience looks like my kind of thing.
@@gumpy4960 Exactly, now cars are a better investment than housing lol. At least my dad managed to get an original mint Rover P5B before prices went up. I’m 15 and I’m saving up for a 1st gen Swift Sport but I hope they don’t go up in valie
I currently own a 360 challenge stradale, traded my f430 for it and I think it's one of the purest and raw Ferraris you can currently buy on the market
Some great points. I have a 360 Spider with the Challenge Stradale Map, Carbon Fibre engine bay, paddles and CS front and back bumpers. Sounds and feels just as quick as the OEM CS I drove. The CS prices aren't justified IMO when you're essentially buying a map and some weight saving.
Having been in the car guys challenge around Anglesey. I was surprised how good the challenge was, ride, noise, brakes etc was very good.., my only experience in a scud was driving around the M25 for 5 miles before it broke down on the said motorway.
Great review. Watching this quietly at the in laws with the closed captions on and I think you should know that Scuderia is captioned as Scooter. Made me giggle. In terms of Ferrari this is kind of a strange patch in the transition from analogue to digital cars, I would rather go for a manual 355/360 or skip to a 458. I've only driven a 458 though so I haven't experienced what the older analogue cars feel like and may be disappointed in the reality.
I wonder how old those tyres are ? Michelin PS4S all the way on the CS! The steering on any 360 / F430 platform is so entirely dependant on setup its going to vary from car to car so greatly. Don't forget these cars including the Scuderia all share the exact same parts! Also I experienced (strangely) that so many cars don't have the steering column bolts tightened up to correct torque which can also lead to slop/play from the dead ahead but the main issue is usually related to suspension setup including rake ratio front to rear , ride height , etc. Toe at front also greatly improves sharpness. I bet within a few hours I could absolutely transform that silver example to drive better than your Scuderia does with some TLC. I'd also start with replacing all the wishbone bushes, gearbox bush and engine mounts and do full geo reset. You need to drive my car to feel how much better it can be setup ! Nice video though overall. 👍 I can also fix the torque issue too and yes that's entirely software dependant! 😉
Great comment, the behaviour of these cars is very dependable on the camber setup - from excessive understeer to excessive oversteer. Tires also play a great role. Probably, old tires on the exact car may not have enough grip in the corners since the tire width is quite narrow upfront.
@@coolguy_2997 to give you some idea how sensitive it is, on the factory supplied ancient Pirelli tyres it came with, they literally are considered "done" regardless of tread left after something like less than 30 heat cycles! I kid you not so yes I'm sure tyres plays a huge role. I think it's important not to jump to conclusions about one example before driving a few different cars and ideally on fresh rubber!
Which essentially points in the same direction as he suggests for the choice of car: buy a "normal" 360 and make it lighter and sharper, as you did (you're the uncontested champ at that)
@@ecyout it's actually significantly more time saving and for most is going to be less expensive to go factory CS route. Depends on how far you want to take it a huge number of detailed changes across the entire car where done to get the CS to the factory level of tune beyond just electronics. Yes many CS examples are sadly now garage queens with under 15k miles and subsequently have deteriorated significantly in terms of their outright performance and handling but they sure do look shiny (joke). Some are even (perish the thought) on their stock 15 year old tyres. It's actually very hard to start with a base 360 and not spend at least the value of the car to modernize and refresh the brakes , suspension, wheels, ECUs , weight loss, etc. And even then there are so many special parts on a CS that the more you delve the more you appreciate the differences.
I sold my Scuderia because the 360CS is such a raw fun experience and you don't really need to go that fast to enjoy it! Love your reviews and I think the largest challenge the CS has is so many of them have been "hit" and there are very few good examples out there left. Good record keeping (service) etc. is critical to hold value!
Just realized what the noise reminds me of. When I was a lad, neighbours had an old Triumph Spitfire which was driven with gusto. Why do people idolise an engine that sounds like an overworked four-pot? Why bother with eight pistons in the first place - save weight and complication and stick to four. Yes, get an old Lotus (or a Triumph Spitfire)....
it amazes me the number of standard 360 owners who then fit shed loads of CS bits to turn them,albeit not as light,into a CS copy.a chap near me has done just that.On the subject of F430 scud's,how much better is the 16M version?
I had 355 GTS and loved it for its go kart experience. But you had to work it hard to get the full monty from it. I had the pleasure of driving a CS when it was new for a day. Absolutely incredible.. it's rawness and that sound. Now I have a 575. Such a better car than either of those. A lot cheaper to buy also. It's a great every day driver but will also let you attack the mountain roads. The F1 box is plenty fast enough too. Prettier too IMO. That shirt is simply outrageous.
I think your spot on about the styling. The 360 looks amazing from the front angles but the 430 is hands down better from the rear quarters. I have always felt like every model in the v8 dino line was a solid improvement over the precious model. The 430 Scuderia would be my pick over the 360 challenge or IMO the 458 Speciale. The 458 Speciale is too much for the street.
I mean there's gotta be a reason why Seen Through Glass for example got a 360 Modena despite the CS being his dream car for life and no longer seems to really want to upgrade :D
He got the 360 because it was the closest thing to a CS that he could comfortably afford at the time, and he's said he doesn't want to tick the CS box yet becuase he hasnt reached the stage in life when he wants to complete the goal
.. and the fact AV Engineering gave him CS software ++ with a CS exhaust and he's got a gated car with carbon seats so actually his car is already extremely fun and setup for pure enjoyment.
Own a scud and have driven CS. I think CS wins on sound, and there are fewer of them… but scud wins just about everywhere else. Looks are subjective and in the end both are great examples of ‘raw’ sports cars. Newer models are faster and more useable, but few deliver the sensations these do
My friend had a mint CS years ago sold it for 90k the dealer sold it days later for £105k and a few years later they were worth £250k+ I enjoyed reminding him this… not sure what they go for now. He did take me out on track once that was fun.
I personally don’t think the 360CS is overrated. I agree with a lot of what Jay is saying though. It’s true. It’s not that loud inside. The F430 is pretty loud in itself with the valves open. I’ve driven and raced a 360CS. This was back in 2012. In today’s driving world the 360CS and any car with only low 400 NA hp is at a pretty severe disadvantage. It’s still pretty quick. Heck I still enjoy my E46 M3 3 pedal. I’ve driven and raced a 458 Italia and Speciale also and many other cars. Looks wise I give the edge to the 360CS. Sits perfectly. F430 looks next best to me. A lowered F430 better than the Scud to me. A half inch wider wheel and one tire size up and a light weight battery is great for the F430. The 458 is just a much more modern and better car. I don’t like the looks though in comparison to the others. I believe when comparing to Porsche it’s really the 996 GT3 vs CS 997 GT3 vs Scud 991 GT3 vs Speciale. I raced a 997.1 GT3 I believe. The one with 450hp. Dang. Thing is fast. My tires were a bit bald but on each up shift his car would in forward but I would gain back at top end. He was manually shifting too and I have an F1. I had the CST off also.
Great to hear a completely honest review. Keep it up! PS. kept thinking the 458 addresses many of the weaknesses called out in the video. Great sound, interior feels special. Very quick, plenty of torque and the manetino gives plenty of choice from compliant to track.
I've never cared for the look of the 430. But as time moves on, I still don't like the look of the 430. As far as "pretty" goes ; the standard 360 spider, is the prettiest and cleanest of that era. Personally I dig the CH most. (In dark blue, no stripe)
Funny how the racecars you showed in your clip had the standard mirrors - no doubt down to the cost. The CS sounds amazing but like you say, as Sam and Scott have done, it's not hard to get within 90% of the spec. 348 GT Competizione.........the unicorn
I’m probably alone in this opinion, but I think the 360 CS is in my opinion the most beautiful modern Ferrari. I’m such a goober that the 612 is my second fav.
@@Toymonkeyjr I think the f12 is one of the last truly beautiful Ferrari’s. Ever since they stopped working with Pininfarina the cars have become too boring and odd looking.
So for looks I'll go with 360 over the 430, I think they're really similar looking but prefer the headlights on the 360. Agree the hype of the stradale is silly, it'll pass probably
It’s a beautiful looking car but the premium over the regular 360 is absurd. The silver with racing stripes actually doesn’t look naff on this car & I love the wheel design. Nice review!
I’ve had the pleasure of revving a scuderia till 7000 rpms and it sounds intoxicating it feels incredible. And it looks more beautiful no arguments about
Never a fan of the 360s styling when new but o think it has aged very well, a prettier car than the 430 thanks to its more classic looking front and rear styling. Just my opinion though.
I’ve never really been much interested in the CS, or the 360 in general. I would personally take a Scud any day. The Scud has long been a dream car for me.
The 360 was always my favourite Ferrari as a kid, so im biased. The F430 never did it for me. Not just in the looks department, but the fact that a manual transmission was already much more difficult to find in a 430 than a 360.
I think we’re all just leaning towards whatever one we grew up idolizing. I’m from the 430 generation so the 360 just seems underwhelming styling wise but I know people a few years younger than me that think the 430 is a mess and the 458 is the one to get. It’s honestly funny to me how much what we saw when we were around 10 years old affects our perceptions now
@@jacobd1432 nostalgia has a way of taking us back to the things that brought us joy in our youth. No matter what it may be, its always special because the experience is our own.
The 360 is the last truly beautiful mid-engined Ferrari in my opinion (except the Enzo, but that's in an entirely different way). The 430 and later all look too much like they are a Toyota/Nissan impression of what a Ferrari should look like, rather than the real deal.
430 is just freshening up of the 360 design. And your mention about the Toyota/Nissan design, Pininfarina Design Director was a Japanese designer. He signed off on the 360 and 430 designs and more.
This is the content I ask for. Trash the cars please. Stop talking up cars I want to buy (996, Ferrari ff, etc.). Trash the cars I want. Do the community(me?) a favor
Schumi adds a sprinkling of magic to the Scud...to me that cancels of the higher production numbers.'However' 16M is the daddy destined for stratospheric $$$$$$.Merry Christmas guys
i have a hunch the car you drove is a tired example. It should not be bottoming out and the suspension squeaking. The car is so much more raw, mechanical, noisy, and slower than a 430 Scud, its not even comparable. Its not meant to be. Its also the wrong car to jump in and drive and fall in love with the first time. But once you get it, you will love it!
Thanks for another honest review. I’d still have one (marginally) over the Scuderia, based on looks. I’ve always hankered after one, even after reading the review in EVO many years ago.
I much prefer the look of the CS over the skud, but dynamically the skud will be the better place to be, I'd still choose the CS as if you buy a track special you sort of expect there to be compromises with road use, good review 👍
I feel like Jay is doing the if they say this ill say that thing. Testarossa has always been considered a dead duck in ferrari circles... But for jay.. they say this.. Jay says Its good. Challenge Stradale has always been known to be one of the all time greats in ferrari circles... but they say this... Jay says otherwise... Playing to old algorithm a tad i reckon. After all, repeating what others say is just more of the same... and less views. But go against that... then interest in what is being said is amplified. I see you Jay.
Beautiful, timeless lines, such a stunning looking car. Is this the same car that Ratarossa is has been stripping down to make a Challenge Stradale Spider?
I own a CS, and have driven a Scud on the track. The suspension geometry, and components are identical, in fact if you check they share the same ferrari part numbers. The 430 chassis only differs in the outer skin. Any differences in feel would be due to tyre choice, and geometry set up. When set up for the track, both cars feel virtually identical, except the Scud has additional mid rev. torque, additional top end 90HP, savage gear change, and trick electronic diff. that allows you to get on the power earlier. All that equates to 1.0 ~ 1.5 seconds on an average 1min 30 lap. All in all, I find the CS does far more with far less, thats why I bought one. It just feels more analogue. Just as the Scud would feel more analogue to the 458 Special. For me the only place I enjoy the car, is on the track. And on the track it all works great, gearbox and all. And when you think about it, that's what it was designed for.
The comment I always hear about the Strad is that it is just too stiff for the road. Which is a shame. And if being honest "Sport Mode" (ie stiff mode) in a regular Modena is also too crashy for crap roads (hacking a 360 to stay permanently in regular / soft is 100% the best thing you can do with a 360). So although I've not driven a CS, I can only imagine that that observation is probably true..
Well a car's image and reputation is not just about the technical perfectness. It's about how it maks you feel, what emotions you have when you're in it and put the pedal to the metal. And: Your many scenes where you just let the engine scream the most beautiful melody in car history says it all why people will always love this car.
I think that time has been very kind to the 360. I remember being underwhelmed when it came out (and subsequently thinking that the 430 was a huge improvement). Fast forward 20 years and I now consider the 360 to be one of the prettiest Ferrari's ever built - and a MUCH nicer design than the 430!
Well said, for years the 360 has been overshadowed by the 430, but to me the 360 is prettier and in my opinion a rawer feel to driving it. Plus lets not forget the 360 was first V8 model to put on display the very heart of a Ferrari, it’s beautiful engine. LOVE the 360 😍
For me the biggest flaw of the 430 is that had to use the 360's glass, so the design was half lower Enzo-esque and angular, but the half top was softer and roundish
The 360 i've always seen it as a much purer design
5 valve manual in an aluminum frame…it’s the one to own
Still a quick car though.
Mostly agree: for me the 430 sort of looks like the Hyundai Coupe designers had a take at redesigning the 360.
(The 360 is far from perfect in itself though, granted)
When it comes to the practicalities of the actual car, the 430 is probably a smarter buy.
Great review! But in all fairness, you're testing a 20 year old car. Things like brake feel and handling really depend on how it was treated by the owner
Thank you!!!!!!!
I do believe you can upkeep the feel of a car though. Discerning owners will replace suspension parts, replace breaks, baby the engine, etc. You'd have to expect the owner of a special edition Ferrari to be on all of that, no?
@@ashernorris22 no.
@@ashernorris22 many are not
I still adore the shape and the relative visual simplicity of the 360.
ive always dreamed of owning a 360 CS, i remember going to the local ferrari dealership and seeing 3 different ones on display when they came out.
its one of the most ICONIC and in my opinion one of the best looking ferrari's 🤩🤩
I had a CS (with hyperflow cats) for 9 years and a Scud for 8 years, CS looks fab but unless you are above 7k RPM the CS TOTALLY lacks torque and was very glad to get rid of it the day I part exchanged it for the Scuderia. The best combination would of course be the CS body with a Scud engine and gearbox. I never really loved the Scud either, difficult to pin it down why so sold it for a 991 GT3 RS, which is a vastly superior car. Just to note though that I have also owned and still do a F430 Spider with those lovely Carbon Racing Seatings and Carbon brakes, this is the best of the bunch, its my favourite car!
The 430 Scud is really a track car. Imo, it's just too immediate and too aggressive to be enjoyable on the street. They are amazing cars in their native habitat, dare I say moreso even than a 2RS or 3RS.
I have driven a few 360 Challenge Stradale's and they are not all built the same. Hell I had driven standard 360's that were faster then a CS. A 991 is 12 years younger then the 360? 360 CS is a collectors car now.
I am jealous sir. That 430 sounds lovely.
Hi Richard - I currently own a Stradale and came form a 991 GT3. Looking to go back to a GT3 of some description!! I find the Strad a bloody nuisance to live with. Hard to get in and out of, delicate, have to have it plugged in, engine lacks torque and the car generally feels like it’s ready to go wrong one way or another!! GT Porsche product is night and day better - can nail it hard and always works. Just the way better all rounder.
@@SPM2Comp First of all the CS is a collectors item and is going to be worth more then a 991 GT3. There is 10 years difference between the CS and 991 GT3 so comparing the 2 is crazy. The question you need to ask your self Mr Woolfdog36 is why did you buy the stradale after coming from a modern gt3? The 360 CS is twitchy car to drive but if you drive it right its very rewarding. The Ferrari also might need a flash tune if its running ruff or lacking power.
I downloaded 2 pictures of each (430 scud & 360 CS) from Roman's International. Same shot angle and location. And after going back and forth between the two. I'd have to say the 360 CS is a more beautiful design IMO. The flow of the design and the quad exhaust out the back is timeless.
One other significant change from the 355 was a tiny bit of attention to the customer experience in service costs. Whereas with the 355 a cam belt change was an expensive engine out affair the 360 has a cunning access panel in the bulk head between the seats. That lowers the cost (or should) by 70%.
To access the battery (jump start etc) in a 355 required the removal of a front wheel! The 360 had an innovative gel battery under the passenger's feet.
Don’t talk rubbish David
@@csllover you need to explain that friend. I worked at Ferrari at the time of the 360 launch. Where is my statement "rubbish"?
@@davidporeilly1 don’t let him annoy you, I don’t understand this modern way of shutting down others online. Your points were factually correct.
The servicing costs on the engine out cars (Mondial 3.4t; 355; Testarossa) was a massive downside on the ownership experience!
I have changed from a 1993 Mondial 3.4t to a 1988 Mondial 3.2 because of the huge service cost difference! Typically £2,500 on an annual service at a Main Dealer on the 3.4t compared to £390 on the 3.2 at a specialist in older Ferrari cars. The selection of who services the older cars is important, & using someone who knows the cars through years of working with them is vital. I use Peter Higgins Sports Cars. A Ferrari Main Dealer will charge around £1250 plus vat as their overheads are higher. On an old Mondial I do not consider having a Main dealer stamp in the service book, will alter its saleability! More important is how many miles it hasn’t done! I only buy high mileage Ferrari’s! Low mileage ones are trouble & costly to renew bushes, suspension & engine parts that need more use! My 3.2 is now at 71,250 miles & going well!
@@nickrichardson7451 When I arrived in the UK I was shocked at what main dealers charge for servicing Ferrari. On a current model car it was about 2.5 times what we charge as main dealers in Australia. In my view the Ferrari dealers in the UK are just using fear of non dealer stamps to profiteer.
The sound this makes could tear a hole in the fabric of space/time. I’m also curious how this review would have taken shape, had you not have owned (or driven) the Scud prior.
Exactly
The sound is epic, I love these cars!
CS over the Scud.
I drove the CS and a 430 back to back over a decade ago the CS blew my mind. The 430 and 458 do nothing for me. CS is the only V8 Ferrari I care about.
Faster and better handling are the 430band 458 what makes the CS so exciting?
@@adampetten5349 faster is not everything. The CS makes you feel alive! Just like a GT3 RS. Heck even the Gallardo Superleggera and Huracan are more fun to drive then the 430/458.
@@kahmed7328 I agree about Speed. The CS is very quick at 0-200 in 13. It's not until the 488 that you get into ludicrous unusable speed. The Plaid is nearly F1 acceleration for the public. Sounds crazy.
@@adampetten5349 tbh the raw cars just get into your soul. The sound, the shifts etc. fast cars are fun, no doubt. But it’s all about how a car makes you feel.
@@adampetten5349 Faster is not everything. Despite being able to afford MUCH faster car (not a super car), I own a ap1 Honda S2000 just for the sheer raw feeling, excitement, and sound of it. Compared to today's standards, it's a slow car but... man does it make a simple drive beyond fund and exciting.
James, thank you for doing justice to the Challenge Stradale's soundtrack on the opening of the review. I absolutely love it.
I think this is the last truly beautiful car Ferrari ever made. But I agree 100 percent about the performance.
Thanks for stopping by Freddie, good luck with your 430!
Sorry Tavarish, the 458 was a more beautiful design. 360, 430 were not that great. And now the designs again have take a downturn.
Don't forget about Tavarish too for shortage of Ferrari parts !
Last good Ferrari was the last one signed off in purple ink by the old man.
Everything since are just flash Fiat's and in the case of the V8's sound terrible.
@Rossi Carmichael All Ferrari flat plane crank V8's sound awful, the F1 engine was a flat plane but that was revving to almost 20,000 rpm so no it does not sound the same.
Maybe you should accept that not everyone has fallen for this 'Ferrari V8 Sound'
Or you could go on insulating people and trying to make fun of someone's opinion.
One of my favourite Ferrari’s ever made. I’m not a fan of modern Ferrari’s or any other modern car for that matter.
Watching your vids reminds me of watching the original Topgear ! 80’s and 90’s. Keep up the great work quality as always
The genesis of modern day Ferrari, timelessly beautiful design, I can only admire it as a mere mortal.
Probably one of the best! I love mine and the sound it makes.
You’re very lucky to have such a great car ! My favourite Ferrari’s ever made.
Also French bred and bread here :p
What I've found over many years looking for good used cars is that you can never tell what's been done to them, or how well they have been maintained and looked after. So many buy standard cars and modify them to look like the rare models. The 911 is a favourite car for doing this. Having said that, I have found it necessary in order to come to any meaningful conclusion about a car, you need to drive several versions of the same model to get a good overall opinion of the car, especially as these cars are heading towards being 20 years old. A lot can happen to them during that time.
The thickness of the windshield doesn’t do much for safety in this case, it’s mostly for noise. It’s the laminate that provided safety and those should both provide safety in the same range
The laminate provides one aspect of safety, and the thickness provides another. The laminate doesn't add to structural strength like thicker glass does. Thicker glass helps with rollover protection and rigidity.
@@littlejackalo5326 Are you actually suggesting Ferrari engineers are sacrificing structural integrity in the performance model? One would not be foolish to assume one provides enough safety and structure and the other MORE than enough.
I think you probably gotta a slightly tired example. Bushes, camber, cam belt timing and new tyres make a big difference. I'm on my 2nd CS and still great. Sure Scud is a "better" car as any evolved car usually is, however CS is very special if you drive a good example... Oh and CS much prettier not to mention a rarer sight
I have to agree. Things are just worn out on the car and need to be refreshed, such as ball joints and bushings. I'm not on my 2nd CS like you, but I am on my 1st. :)
Yes, he admitted the bushings are dried because the car is always in storage this is not a good review because of that
Now we are talking !!!
I knew you will be here lol.
Merry Christmas Scott
I think Scott we need to show him what a well setup example drives like... 💪😁 Merry Xmas 🌲🎄
@@360trev exactly mate … possibly with a little tuneup 🤫
Great film. For me the CS is the most unbelievable car I have ever driven. Spine tingling. Made all my hairs stand on end. To be fair I haven’t driven a Scud (only a 430). Love both. If I could I would have both in my garage + a 355 and a Lotus Esprit!
Great video and content! Having owned both a 360 and a 430, I, like you, I prefer the "F1" sound style of the 360 engine.
One thing that annoys me about the car community is when certain cars are just so hyped up that the car can never live up to that hype no matter how good it is. Having said that I do think the cs would be one of my favourite cars to drive just based on all the videos I’ve seen of it, it’s the prettiest modern Ferrari I think and the driving experience looks like my kind of thing.
And it makes dream cars unattainable for young car enthusiasts like myself
@@freddieparrydrums yep and the people who can afford them just buy them to make money and not because they love cars.
@@gumpy4960 Exactly, now cars are a better investment than housing lol. At least my dad managed to get an original mint Rover P5B before prices went up. I’m 15 and I’m saving up for a 1st gen Swift Sport but I hope they don’t go up in valie
You'd buy it for the noise alone, the rest is extra.
Damn right lol
Facts.
I currently own a 360 challenge stradale, traded my f430 for it and I think it's one of the purest and raw Ferraris you can currently buy on the market
Some great points. I have a 360 Spider with the Challenge Stradale Map, Carbon Fibre engine bay, paddles and CS front and back bumpers. Sounds and feels just as quick as the OEM CS I drove. The CS prices aren't justified IMO when you're essentially buying a map and some weight saving.
Your videos are so professional James. Another fantastic production.
Interesting review. Love the CS, owned one back in the day, but my 16M has been with me for 11 years - very special car.
16M is a curious beastie indeed
@@JayEmmOnCars Curious, 😂 odd word to describe it.
Having been in the car guys challenge around Anglesey. I was surprised how good the challenge was, ride, noise, brakes etc was very good.., my only experience in a scud was driving around the M25 for 5 miles before it broke down on the said motorway.
I like the 430 Scuderia better. I've seen a few Challenge Stradales and the presence they lack next to a Scuderia always fascinates me.
I like how you just started with a good minute-plus of that exhaust note
Great review. Watching this quietly at the in laws with the closed captions on and I think you should know that Scuderia is captioned as Scooter. Made me giggle.
In terms of Ferrari this is kind of a strange patch in the transition from analogue to digital cars, I would rather go for a manual 355/360 or skip to a 458. I've only driven a 458 though so I haven't experienced what the older analogue cars feel like and may be disappointed in the reality.
I wonder how old those tyres are ? Michelin PS4S all the way on the CS! The steering on any 360 / F430 platform is so entirely dependant on setup its going to vary from car to car so greatly. Don't forget these cars including the Scuderia all share the exact same parts! Also I experienced (strangely) that so many cars don't have the steering column bolts tightened up to correct torque which can also lead to slop/play from the dead ahead but the main issue is usually related to suspension setup including rake ratio front to rear , ride height , etc. Toe at front also greatly improves sharpness. I bet within a few hours I could absolutely transform that silver example to drive better than your Scuderia does with some TLC. I'd also start with replacing all the wishbone bushes, gearbox bush and engine mounts and do full geo reset. You need to drive my car to feel how much better it can be setup ! Nice video though overall. 👍 I can also fix the torque issue too and yes that's entirely software dependant! 😉
What if you also adjusted the 430 the same way as the 360. Would you still say the 360 drives better? Just currious.
Great comment, the behaviour of these cars is very dependable on the camber setup - from excessive understeer to excessive oversteer. Tires also play a great role. Probably, old tires on the exact car may not have enough grip in the corners since the tire width is quite narrow upfront.
@@coolguy_2997 to give you some idea how sensitive it is, on the factory supplied ancient Pirelli tyres it came with, they literally are considered "done" regardless of tread left after something like less than 30 heat cycles! I kid you not so yes I'm sure tyres plays a huge role. I think it's important not to jump to conclusions about one example before driving a few different cars and ideally on fresh rubber!
Which essentially points in the same direction as he suggests for the choice of car: buy a "normal" 360 and make it lighter and sharper, as you did (you're the uncontested champ at that)
@@ecyout it's actually significantly more time saving and for most is going to be less expensive to go factory CS route. Depends on how far you want to take it a huge number of detailed changes across the entire car where done to get the CS to the factory level of tune beyond just electronics. Yes many CS examples are sadly now garage queens with under 15k miles and subsequently have deteriorated significantly in terms of their outright performance and handling but they sure do look shiny (joke). Some are even (perish the thought) on their stock 15 year old tyres. It's actually very hard to start with a base 360 and not spend at least the value of the car to modernize and refresh the brakes , suspension, wheels, ECUs , weight loss, etc. And even then there are so many special parts on a CS that the more you delve the more you appreciate the differences.
Really enjoyed your review 👍 Thank you for another year of entertainment. Merry Christmas
I've always preffered the look of the 430. It looks like it's always going somewhere, even when standing still.
Fair… I think the back is a bit too tall though.
I sold my Scuderia because the 360CS is such a raw fun experience and you don't really need to go that fast to enjoy it! Love your reviews and I think the largest challenge the CS has is so many of them have been "hit" and there are very few good examples out there left. Good record keeping (service) etc. is critical to hold value!
Just realized what the noise reminds me of. When I was a lad, neighbours had an old Triumph Spitfire which was driven with gusto. Why do people idolise an engine that sounds like an overworked four-pot? Why bother with eight pistons in the first place - save weight and complication and stick to four. Yes, get an old Lotus (or a Triumph Spitfire)....
it amazes me the number of standard 360 owners who then fit shed loads of CS bits to turn them,albeit not as light,into a CS copy.a chap near me has done just that.On the subject of F430 scud's,how much better is the 16M version?
you always make such good reviews. always nice to watch by how you tell your story in your own way
I had 355 GTS and loved it for its go kart experience. But you had to work it hard to get the full monty from it. I had the pleasure of driving a CS when it was new for a day. Absolutely incredible.. it's rawness and that sound. Now I have a 575. Such a better car than either of those. A lot cheaper to buy also. It's a great every day driver but will also let you attack the mountain roads. The F1 box is plenty fast enough too. Prettier too IMO. That shirt is simply outrageous.
I think your spot on about the styling. The 360 looks amazing from the front angles but the 430 is hands down better from the rear quarters. I have always felt like every model in the v8 dino line was a solid improvement over the precious model. The 430 Scuderia would be my pick over the 360 challenge or IMO the 458 Speciale. The 458 Speciale is too much for the street.
I mean there's gotta be a reason why Seen Through Glass for example got a 360 Modena despite the CS being his dream car for life and no longer seems to really want to upgrade :D
I mean STG loves that car because it has red seat belts (sorry about the gratuitous 'I mean')
He got the 360 because it was the closest thing to a CS that he could comfortably afford at the time, and he's said he doesn't want to tick the CS box yet becuase he hasnt reached the stage in life when he wants to complete the goal
Probably more to do with price buddy.
.. and the fact AV Engineering gave him CS software ++ with a CS exhaust and he's got a gated car with carbon seats so actually his car is already extremely fun and setup for pure enjoyment.
His 360 is also a gated manual which is nice. Which you can’t get with the CS, i’d much rather do what he did.
It would be cool to see you have a chat with Sam from Seen Through Glass and maybe have a look at his 360?
Own a scud and have driven CS. I think CS wins on sound, and there are fewer of them… but scud wins just about everywhere else. Looks are subjective and in the end both are great examples of ‘raw’ sports cars. Newer models are faster and more useable, but few deliver the sensations these do
When it comes to Ferrari ownership a badge that says “larger and stiffer” is all important, if even only in peoples perception.
One thing that would be a great addition to videos like this, and the Testarossa, is the original list price vs the values now 😀
My friend had a mint CS years ago sold it for 90k the dealer sold it days later for £105k and a few years later they were worth £250k+ I enjoyed reminding him this… not sure what they go for now. He did take me out on track once that was fun.
I bet he loves it when you remind him of that
Sat here saying to myself.. "funking paste it son" just as the camera cut change and the V8 Music plays. Jay, your the man
I personally don’t think the 360CS is overrated. I agree with a lot of what Jay is saying though.
It’s true. It’s not that loud inside. The F430 is pretty loud in itself with the valves open.
I’ve driven and raced a 360CS. This was back in 2012. In today’s driving world the 360CS and any car with only low 400 NA hp is at a pretty severe disadvantage. It’s still pretty quick.
Heck I still enjoy my E46 M3 3 pedal.
I’ve driven and raced a 458 Italia and Speciale also and many other cars.
Looks wise I give the edge to the 360CS. Sits perfectly.
F430 looks next best to me. A lowered F430 better than the Scud to me.
A half inch wider wheel and one tire size up and a light weight battery is great for the F430.
The 458 is just a much more modern and better car. I don’t like the looks though in comparison to the others.
I believe when comparing to Porsche it’s really the 996 GT3 vs CS
997 GT3 vs Scud
991 GT3 vs Speciale.
I raced a 997.1 GT3 I believe. The one with 450hp. Dang. Thing is fast. My tires were a bit bald but on each up shift his car would in forward but I would gain back at top end. He was manually shifting too and I have an F1. I had the CST off also.
Great video. Awesome car. Keep up the good work.
I prefer the 430 Scuderia. I agree with your assessment and I honestly have never been a big fan of the 360 in any form.
Agreed Ferraris are meant to be pretty, the 360 is really not pretty. 355 pretty, 360 jelly mould like, 430 an improvement , 458 again back to pretty.
how many of either have you driven?
@@kevincockburn7805 only disagree on the 458, its hideous to me
@@DAGATHire I have driven all of them.
Great to hear a completely honest review. Keep it up! PS. kept thinking the 458 addresses many of the weaknesses called out in the video. Great sound, interior feels special. Very quick, plenty of torque and the manetino gives plenty of choice from compliant to track.
I've never cared for the look of the 430. But as time moves on, I still don't like the look of the 430. As far as "pretty" goes ; the standard 360 spider, is the prettiest and cleanest of that era. Personally I dig the CH most. (In dark blue, no stripe)
Funny how the racecars you showed in your clip had the standard mirrors - no doubt down to the cost. The CS sounds amazing but like you say, as Sam and Scott have done, it's not hard to get within 90% of the spec. 348 GT Competizione.........the unicorn
The car that bought beauty back to Ferrari. Sometimes, as Mr HubNut might say, less is more. Or , at least, enough.
Thanks J, interesting comparison for older & newer cars, I enjoyed the review!
I’m probably alone in this opinion, but I think the 360 CS is in my opinion the most beautiful modern Ferrari. I’m such a goober that the 612 is my second fav.
360, 550, f12, 458 (gt3), in no particular order, have probably the most timeless exteriors of ferraris
I completely agree. One of the few Ferrari’s I’d consider owning tbh.
612 🤮🤮🤮
Spot on. The 360 is my favourite by far! I think it's the curves and sweeping lines. I would settle for a 360 never mind a CS.
@@Toymonkeyjr I think the f12 is one of the last truly beautiful Ferrari’s. Ever since they stopped working with Pininfarina the cars have become too boring and odd looking.
I was fortunate enough to own one in 2005. Still my favorite car only behind a Kirkham 427 Cobra.
Thanks for the uninterrupted eargasm at the start.
So for looks I'll go with 360 over the 430, I think they're really similar looking but prefer the headlights on the 360. Agree the hype of the stradale is silly, it'll pass probably
This is a wonderful video, the kind of thing that proves how you're a real car guy. Thank you!
Great review I really enjoyed it
Thanks for posting
jPc
It’s a beautiful looking car but the premium over the regular 360 is absurd. The silver with racing stripes actually doesn’t look naff on this car & I love the wheel design. Nice review!
The two cars drive like night and day.
I’ve had the pleasure of revving a scuderia till 7000 rpms and it sounds intoxicating it feels incredible. And it looks more beautiful no arguments about
Never a fan of the 360s styling when new but o think it has aged very well, a prettier car than the 430 thanks to its more classic looking front and rear styling. Just my opinion though.
I’ve never really been much interested in the CS, or the 360 in general. I would personally take a Scud any day. The Scud has long been a dream car for me.
360 Challenge Stradale is my fav Ferrari 😍😍nice video! 👌I'm lucky I got to see one at a car show.
Epic sound. Merry Xmas James Martin. From Paul.
Niiice James finally heard you hit a reg limiter! That sounded absolutely epic!
Looking really well there Jay, well done pal.
I thought I had a great comment but the moment I saw your Pajama tops I lost my train of thought. Have a great holiday 🎅🤶🧑🎄
I'd have to go with an Exige 430 (despite being 6'4"...hey, I've fit in a Suzuki Cappuccino before!)
The 360 was always my favourite Ferrari as a kid, so im biased. The F430 never did it for me. Not just in the looks department, but the fact that a manual transmission was already much more difficult to find in a 430 than a 360.
I think we’re all just leaning towards whatever one we grew up idolizing. I’m from the 430 generation so the 360 just seems underwhelming styling wise but I know people a few years younger than me that think the 430 is a mess and the 458 is the one to get. It’s honestly funny to me how much what we saw when we were around 10 years old affects our perceptions now
@@jacobd1432 nostalgia has a way of taking us back to the things that brought us joy in our youth. No matter what it may be, its always special because the experience is our own.
Pretty car😍 merry Christmas James 🎄🎄🎄
The 360 is the last truly beautiful mid-engined Ferrari in my opinion (except the Enzo, but that's in an entirely different way). The 430 and later all look too much like they are a Toyota/Nissan impression of what a Ferrari should look like, rather than the real deal.
430 is just freshening up of the 360 design. And your mention about the Toyota/Nissan design, Pininfarina Design Director was a Japanese designer. He signed off on the 360 and 430 designs and more.
@@wozmac771 All of that is true, and none of it changes my subjective opinion about the design, and that the 360 is beautiful, and that 430 isn't :)
Man, I’m hoping this is just a car that needs some maintenance like what some of the comments are saying. This is my dream car
Servicing is cheap or even easy to do yourself. I did a full major with timing belts in my garage in one day for less than $1,000
the lines and super fluid itnreminds me of the classic 60’s Ferraris
This is the content I ask for. Trash the cars please. Stop talking up cars I want to buy (996, Ferrari ff, etc.). Trash the cars I want. Do the community(me?) a favor
Schumi adds a sprinkling of magic to the Scud...to me that cancels of the higher production numbers.'However' 16M is the daddy destined for stratospheric $$$$$$.Merry Christmas guys
Thanks Jay. I've loved this car ever since I first saw VBH drive it in Italy on Fifth Gear.
RUclips subtitles for the cold open: [music]. Too right.
I have never heard anyone complaining that a Ferrari is too loud!!!
Are u kidding me...u buy a Ferrari because its loud!
Otherwise go buy a Bentley!
i have a hunch the car you drove is a tired example. It should not be bottoming out and the suspension squeaking. The car is so much more raw, mechanical, noisy, and slower than a 430 Scud, its not even comparable. Its not meant to be. Its also the wrong car to jump in and drive and fall in love with the first time. But once you get it, you will love it!
430 all day for me. Even when released, I never particularly liked the look of the 360. That said, should I own one, I'm sure I'd love it's looks.
the look very alike lmao what are you talking about
Thanks for another honest review. I’d still have one (marginally) over the Scuderia, based on looks. I’ve always hankered after one, even after reading the review in EVO many years ago.
Just imagine what it would sound like with a decent exhaust system.
The stock CS in pretty much universally considered the best sounding V8 Ferrari, and by many just plain the best sounding V8 ever made.
Maybe replace / refresh bushings for a better front end feel ?
I much prefer the look of the CS over the skud, but dynamically the skud will be the better place to be, I'd still choose the CS as if you buy a track special you sort of expect there to be compromises with road use, good review 👍
I feel like Jay is doing the if they say this ill say that thing. Testarossa has always been considered a dead duck in ferrari circles... But for jay.. they say this.. Jay says Its good.
Challenge Stradale has always been known to be one of the all time greats in ferrari circles... but they say this... Jay says otherwise...
Playing to old algorithm a tad i reckon. After all, repeating what others say is just more of the same... and less views. But go against that... then interest in what is being said is amplified.
I see you Jay.
Beautiful, timeless lines, such a stunning looking car. Is this the same car that Ratarossa is has been stripping down to make a Challenge Stradale Spider?
Hey bro i enjoy your content and how regular you upload
I own a CS, and have driven a Scud on the track. The suspension geometry, and components are identical, in fact if you check they share the same ferrari part numbers.
The 430 chassis only differs in the outer skin. Any differences in feel would be due to tyre choice, and geometry set up.
When set up for the track, both cars feel virtually identical, except the Scud has additional mid rev. torque, additional top end 90HP, savage gear change, and trick electronic diff. that allows you to get on the power earlier. All that equates to 1.0 ~ 1.5 seconds on an average 1min 30 lap.
All in all, I find the CS does far more with far less, thats why I bought one.
It just feels more analogue. Just as the Scud would feel more analogue to the 458 Special.
For me the only place I enjoy the car, is on the track. And on the track it all works great, gearbox and all. And when you think about it, that's what it was designed for.
I love that car. And looks like Ratarossa will not be happy with you. Lol
Merry Christmas
I had a feeling Scott would be making an appearance of sorts in this video
360 is a beautiful looking car.
When top gear (the 3 amigos) tested the CS,that was it for me. WANT WANT WANT
Those wheels. ❤️
The comment I always hear about the Strad is that it is just too stiff for the road. Which is a shame.
And if being honest "Sport Mode" (ie stiff mode) in a regular Modena is also too crashy for crap roads (hacking a 360 to stay permanently in regular / soft is 100% the best thing you can do with a 360).
So although I've not driven a CS, I can only imagine that that observation is probably true..
Overall, I believe the 360 CS is the best looking Ferrari of the 2000+ era. It doesn't have a bad angle.
Well a car's image and reputation is not just about the technical perfectness. It's about how it maks you feel, what emotions you have when you're in it and put the pedal to the metal. And: Your many scenes where you just let the engine scream the most beautiful melody in car history says it all why people will always love this car.
I own the CS , MM16 , 458 speciale. Mate I do love your videos but calling a 360 CS overrated made me chuckle. CS hands down is the favorite