After reading “Marvel: The Untold Story” a few years back, I have been hankering to see a Mad Men-style TV drama about Marvel set in the sixties and seventies.
you would need to do it like The Crown season one would be the Classic Bullpen years With Stan Lee Jack Kirby Steve Ditko Larry Libber and Wally Wood then season 2 jumps to the cluster that the video covers leading to Shooter.
"Comic book nerds tend to be resistant to change of any kind" - truer words were never spoken. And a great video, I should add. The edits, the production, the script, I didn't even notice it's almost 18 minutes. Awesome work.
Stan Lee was a complicated man. He knew he would be made fun of for the rest of eternity, and he only wanted in on it. I love the man’s legacy, but he did a lot to be mad about or make fun of. It’s okay. I would love to see a video on your thoughts and feelings on Stan.
Was not expecting Mr Sunday Movies but I'm pleasantly surprised! ooh, and Maso! _"That was great Mason!"_ "I'm Jim Shooter!" (13:15) "That's the one Scott, that's the take." (14:39)
He did. And in some ways he’s responsible for the Legion of Superheroes becoming what they are. While the Teen Titans didn’t take off, the Legion who Shooter wrote inspired by his own teenage friends did. He also created the Parasite.
As someone who grew up watching the Teen Titans show, I did not expect to have that “and when there’s trouble, you know who to call” into the theme song drop hit me like a ton of bricks.
This channel is truly so special. Your love of comic books is always apparent and the production value only seems to be going up. I also love the community aspect with so many youtubers participating especially the Weekly Planet duo! Keep up the great work.
One thing though: as much as Shooter was hated, he did fix a lot of Marvel's problems and lead to their big period. The only problem is that once he was gone, it all went to hell in a handbasket...but that's another story.
Scott, that was such a great video! Absolutely love how much you've matured over the years doing this, not only has your overall presentation improved dramatically, but the quality has never diminished.
Jim Shooter is the greatest of them all. He wasn't just a "young up-and-comer" but a wunderkind who had things figured out at sixteen that a _lot_ of other folks in the business _never_ seem to get a handle on. I wouldn't say he's got the creative gifts of a Marv Wolfman or fanboyish enthusiasm for the characters of a Roy Thomas, but the insights he has are what made him the best possible choice for Editor In Chief.
I love the production values in this video! Great to see you guys are still around :) Also, I hecking love the new teen titans. Most of that era of 70's comics is a little too... goofy? for me. But New Teen Titans is so mature, and isn't afraid to be dark, but like, in a genuine way. It wasn't Miller dark, or Moore dark, it was a bright and colourful world, but with such broken people in it. Starfire's origin comic still makes me cry, and Cyborg's stories are often hard to read. I mean... I also have a heaping helping of nostalgia for the Teen Titans animated series that adapted most of the run, so there's that too. Idk... there's just something about this comics run that speaks to my soul, that misfit part of me. Gives me hope.
Man, Scott. This was an impeccable production. The photography, motion graphics, and general presentation was really exceptional! I know you were fretting over the audio quality on Twitter, but it came off as A-Okay to me despite the extra reverb in the room. If you want, you can buy a telescoping boom mic stand to get your microphone closer to you while on-camera. I did that earlier this year, and it was a real improvement! Anyway, this was a really stellar piece of work!
Say what you will about Shooter, he presided over one of the better time periods in Marvel history and then started Valiant which was very good under his guidance. He is a skilled editor.
Funny enough; Marv Wolfman's New Teen Titan (later called Titans) was one of the few DC books I read regularly. My favorite story involved Donna ("Who Is Wonder Girl?") as she learned the truth about who and what she was! As she took on the name Troia. That series would come to an end in 2002, but I had dropped the book way before it ended; as I was cutting down the number of comics I was buying. After spending over $100 a month; something needed to change! My love of comics would was too much on my wallet, and had to come to end shortly after!
Johnny Tseng, nope, "Who Is Donna Troy" and "Who Is Wonder Girl" are two different stories. The first is a single issue noir-esque story from...1983 I believe?...where Dick Grayson investigated and found what happened to Donna's biological parents, that's the one you're referring to. And I agree, it's great. However...that version of Donna's backstory involved Wonder Woman saving her from a burning building as a toddler and bringing her to Themiscyra, where she grew up. In the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths Wonder Woman reboot (written by George Perez), Diana only left Themiscyra to live in Man's World a year ago. So, she couldn't have rescued Donna and brought her to Paradise Island. And so, Marv had to write a new backstory for Donna, retconning "Who Is Donna Troy". The new backstory was told in a 5 part story published in 1988, called "Who Is Wonder Girl", which ends with Donna taking on the identity of "Troia". That identity didn't stick quite as well as, say, when Marv gave Dick Grayson the new identity of Nightwing, though. And that's only one part of Donna's convoluted publication history (she was literally created by accident! ) The irony of this is even though Marv and George co-wrote the older "Who Is Donna Troy", they're directly responsible for the need to retcon it. Marv wrote Crisis on Infinite Earths and George wrote the Wonder Woman reboot (which were both really good and worth reading, mind you). The more you know!
@@redhawkmillenium "Who is Wonder Girl" was the story that gave Donna's (first) post-Crisis Origin. It was also the storyline where they took Teen out of the title. DC had rebooted Wonder Woman having her arrive in the present day. New Teen Titans was too popular and Donna was an essential member, so her ties to Wonder Woman had to be severed since they were now pretty much the same age and Donna had been operating as Wonder Girl for years before Wonder Woman ever appeared. It did a decent job, keeping the Greek Mythology angle and most of the New Teen Titans history. Pretty much just the Thia storyline had to be dumped. While that had introduced two new characters, one was always meant to be killed off in Crisis and the other never caught on and silently disappeared.
0:30 on the left hand you can notice DC's first two African American superheroes that are constantly treated like crap! Malcolm Duncan a.k.a. Guardian, Herald, Vox created in 1970 and Karen Beecher a.k.a. Bumblebee created in 1973. DC claims Black Lightning was first but he was created in 1977.
Stan Lee's personality was big & broad and to minimize that would diminish him as a whole human. I began collecting in the 60s and Stan was everything...AND by the time I was in my mid teens in the 70s we were getting clued in. Even without the internet and news about comics everywhere it was obvious that there were personality disputes and flaws running rampant throughout the industry. This is a terrific Channel so give us everything you got. It's a well-known fact that Jim Shooter was difficult to say the least. Things always work out and because life isn't lived in a vacuum it's okay if someone's a dick. That usually spawns something else from those around them. As much as I admire both John Byrne & Chris Clairmont it was getting obvious to all us readers that not everything was going well down at the bullpen. If it was easy it wouldn't be art. Learning a little about Stan's humanity is only going to make us love him more. Bring it on.
I get that Shooter is an easy target but it begs the question, "Shooter insisted on tight deadlines." How was he wrong? He has stated that comics are a relationship with the buyer and fans should be able to expect April's comics in April, not June. He clashed with the super talented Chris Clairemont but Clairemont kept trying to put bedroom scenes between the cannon age 14 year old Kitty Pryde and young adult Colossus. How was Shooter wrong for repeatedly vetoing those even if it frustrated one of his top writers? Yes, Shooter's desire to control the look of every single book had to be frustrating in a creative environment but people got paid more under Shooter, Marvel gained stability and creator owned comics became a reality under Shooter with the Epic line. Yes, a lot of people's favorite writers and artists clashed with Shooter but look at the chaos surrounding any company with a weak EiC and compare and contrast Shooter's run and his insistence on quality ad having projects complete. Maybe Shooter is the big bad in this little drama, but maybe, he's also the adult looking at the bottom line and trying to impose some order in what had been an increasingly chaotic company. Josef Rubenstein once said Shooter was the kind of person who didn't understand "Gee, you don't sweat much for a fat girl," wasn't a compliment so it isn't hard to understand how he became unpopular but to casually paint him as a complete villain seems beneath the kind of research and explanation you're trying to offer here. It's also worth pointing out, many of these people had left DC for Marvel and received promotions before resigning those promotions and jumping back to DC. It is often the nature of the business that creative differences become intensely personal and someone leaves the company.
I was thinking about that. One also must mention his work with Valiant comics. Where the man worked long hours, he set up programs to teach young artists. That man helped plenty of people get into the business. Was he a flawless man? God no! Its plain to see that he had issues, but that doesn't mean that he deserves to be as badly looked upon as some thinks he should be.
I grew up in and starting reading comics in the Shooter era, and those are still my favorite books. I hear everyone put down Shooter, and I get the impression that it was probably his bedside manner, but I get the feeling I'd probably get along better with him than anyone working at Marvel or DC these days. That he lasted as long as he did, I think, says a lot about him and Marvel's need at the time for someone like that. Just glad he wasn't my boss, too.
@@Goldnfoxx Yeah, I respect the man's work edict, if not his apparent bad manners, but I just know that if I was his employee I would not ever get on with the man. Maybe even if I wasn't, but you get what I am saying?
Jim Shooter is the reason Hank Pym will forever be known as a "wife beater" and he didn't even bother to finish the storyline or publish an erratum or clarification until YEARS later.
Awesome video. I loved the Teen Titans all through the 70’s, but I especially loved the New Teen Titans in the 80’s. It was very interesting to hear all about their creation.
The Titans have always been my favorite, 1981 was my senior year of high school. I have Wolfman and Perez, both wonderful men and last year met Jim Shooter in Lexington, KY, he is a very nice man.
I remember the first time I saw your video. It was nothing like I've ever seen before. It had and still has content that is unique and it actually make tou think rather than rapid blur of names and visuals from similar sources. Scott, your style has definitely evolved and they are a breath of fresh air and most welcome. It's sad that rapidly changing RUclips and comics and related scene has put you in a position which might not be really comfortable but I really appreciate your determination and efforts. I love watching your videos and just keep up the great work.
Shooter is actually a pretty interesting guy. Looking into his time putting together Valiant Comics and his subsequent ousting just as it became successful would not be a waste of time...
I think Jim Shooter is absolutely fascinating. He’s truly gifted in so many areas, except one - people skills. Unfortunately, if you manage people in any capacity, let alone in a huge artistic endeavor, it’s people skills that count the most. Apparently his time under the thumb of Mort Weisinger wasn’t entirely healthy. He learned how to edit, true, but Mort also loved to play mind games with his writers.
Teen Titans was my very first comic book. I found it in the public library and read it when I was 10. That inspired a love of comics that is still with me 43 years later.
"You want a supernatural horror mystery? That..." *pause, rolls Will save vs. temptation, nat 1* "...'s so Raven." *immediate tregtet* Also, DKlarations sounds almost exactly like Claremont himself in interviews and that is terrifying and awesome.
Jim Shooter is a man who looks at you though the picture. His eye study and plot your downfall. Yes your specific downfall. His glare bends time and space and he is currently, in the past plotting your specific downfall. Those horrible, horrible eyes.
Not going to lie, this story always makes me so so happy. That, and when you put into consideration that he didn't WANT to create some of the characters. He absolutely HATED the idea of making a mage-type character, only creating Raven at the absolute insistence of some of the DC editors. However, after some pitballing with George Perez, he was able to figure out a storyline idea that he liked enough to be able to write her. Thus, one of the (arguably) most influential characters in the DC Universe was born. Wolfman and Perez were both such huge inspirations to me as a kid. I've always been a fan and always will be. :)
Yes crazy how Raven went from Marv’s unwanted child to his favourite. He even said most of the girls who want his autograph happen to be dressed as her at conventions.
Honestly this video is fantastic, well informed and interesting. Scott, you shouldn't worry about making fun of or misinterpreting the memory of Stan Lee. As you said it yourself, he would want people to remember him for who he was, and not through rose-tinted glasses.
Keep up the great work. These are some of the best stuff on the internet. I've been a big nerd sync fan for years but ever since the Captain American episode the quality of the videos is just amazing. It feels different than just about every other thing on youtube, in a good way. This feels like something that would be on TV.
Let's say this about Jim Shooter....People might not have liked working with him. But....Look at how great those peoples' work was while Jim was there keeping them in line. And how bad a lot of them sucked when Jim left. That is part of the problem with a lot of modern comics. The "editors" spend all day sitting around texting and tweeting and not manning the ship. A lot of creators need someone to pull them back a little when they go off the rails. Unbridled creativity can become unreadable chaos. NOTE: I don't mean that about all modern comics. A lot of them are great and it's one of my favorite periods in comics. But a lot of editors need to get their stuff together and pay attention to what is going on in their books, other books, the whole quesadilla. SECOND NOTE: Just because someone is dead doesn't mean you can't tell funny stories about them. Being dead doesn't make you a saint.
oh man I heard 'James, also known as Mr Sunday and with him as always is his co host Nick Maaaaaaasooon' And absolutely lost my mind!!!!! I love those guys! Such a fun and unexpected cameo!
I really like the format used here, with the "story within a story" approach. However, if you lack the budget to always do these episodes, I would not complain if you needed to go back to the "lone talking head" format. ... But if you do have the budget, the tongue-in-cheek outer story is really fun.
I actually really like the premier thing, it makes me kinda more exited for the video to come out, especially when it's something this high of quality! And I get to watch people's real time reactions to the video.
True story. I was at a comics convention in Atlanta in 1986. All the Marvel bigwigs were there. At some point, I walked into a hotel restroom...and found Jim Shooter making grunting noises, posing heroically, and admiring himself in the mirror. When he saw me, he straightened up and tried to act all cool and nonchalant. "Hiya, kid," he said, and walked out. Ever since that moment, I've been spreading the word far and wide: Jim Shooter is a total goober. 😆
Very good video. I enjoyed the history discussed in the video. I never knew any of this. It really is very interesting to learn all of this and to think the real life events that shaped Marvel and DC in the present day. Thanks for a great video.
You can say what you want. Jim shooter did more for Marvel Comics than anyone besides Stan Lee. However, their quality is now so low I doubt even he could save them.
Your videos are terrific . This one was brilliant and excellently done. You have grown quite a bit as a creator though I worry the high production value may be causing way too much time between videos. I hope you do a stan Lee video. Immediately after Lee’s passing I came to your channel and binged. You have really helped show Stan’s humanity.
I Love Almost All of Stan The Man’s Movie Cameos,my Least Favorite Being Princess Diaries 2,&,my Most Favorite Being Captain America:Civil War,”Package For Tony Stank”,Doesn’t Get Better Then That
100% agree. Look at how books came out under Shooter and how they are now that they let everyone do whatever they want. I'll take "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" and The Dark Phoenix Saga over "America: Why You All Racists" and "Captain Marvel: Why You All Sexist (and Racist!" any day.
Creatives hated Jim Shooter because he actually made them sell comics and finish their comics on time instead of stroking their egos and doing whatever stupid idea they had. But looking back on Marvel history, it's a slam dunk to say that Jim Shooter was obviously in the right. Also, the genius Marv Wolfman said that sci-fi doesn't sell when Marvel was pitched Star Wars.
I can't be the only one who, when Scott said "When there's trouble, you know who to call" thought: "When there's trouble, you call DW." Scott, I just want to say that I am always happy when I see you've uploaded a new video. I know that making these takes a lot of time and effort, and I really do appreciate it. I know I'm not alone in saying that I hope you can get to a point soon where you can make even more awesome videos for us nerds.
I feel this video is overly harsh to Jim Shooter. Look at the EICships to follow him. Under DeFalco you had the grimdark excess of the 90s, followed by the insanity of the 5 EICs, followed by the slightly less bad Bob Harras who didn’t even capitalize upon the X-Men movies and tried to semi-reboot the F4 and Avengers, followed by Bill Jemas who was good only for his trade program, followed by Quesada who was responsible for among other disasters House of M, Civil War and One More Day, followed by his Yes Man Alonso who oversaw much of the messes of the last decade including Secret Empire, a story so stupid it likely got him fired and Marvel’s problems covered by mainstream news. In comparison under Shooter Marvel addressed it’s problems in the 1970s, expanded creatively and financially and delivered the greatest concentration of classic and iconic stories in it’s history. We can talk about how he treated people all we want but his job was primarily to make the books sell, keep Marvel profitable and make the stories good and he succeded in that like almost no one before him and certainly no one since. So evidently his tactics as a boss worked. And frankly, as much as creators can say they hated being treated like children...comic creators are children. 99% of problems in comic books stem from either the extreme of editorial interference (which is talked about alot) but also from creators being let off the leash and allowed to indulge in whatever they want (which isn’t talked about a lot). Shooter seemed to allow enough give on the reigns for creators to do what they wanted to a certain extent but also set hard boundaries. But it’s comic book creators acting like children which results in obviously wrongheaded stuff like Secret Empire, Parker Industries, Civil War I-II and the Clone Saga. If creators were treated like children by Shooter but also under Shooter produced their some of their best work (Byrne complains but his F4 run is the pinnacle of his career honestly) then maybe they needed to be treated like children. In the modern day where people like Dan Slott mudsling on twitter maybe we could use some more of that.
The bashing on Jim Shooter was innecesary. He probably was not a pleasant person to the writers/artist... but he keep the position for 9 years with great success. Both comercially and criticaly. Also people always forget the fact that Stan Lee himself want to promote him, the best EiC that Marvel ever has. Also all the guidelines he implements in his tenure wasn't out of spite to the artist, but to his love at the comics.
I'm quite late but this is a fantastic video in every aspect. From the way it's shot, to the production value, too the humor. Everything. Please do more of this. Applause all around Also got job on getting James and Maso
After reading “Marvel: The Untold Story” a few years back, I have been hankering to see a Mad Men-style TV drama about Marvel set in the sixties and seventies.
Yeah it would ruin a lot of people's perception of Stan Lee which would be kind of bad since he is now dead.
I'd pay money to see that.
Can we get this
you would need to do it like The Crown season one would be the Classic Bullpen years With Stan Lee Jack Kirby Steve Ditko Larry Libber and Wally Wood then season 2 jumps to the cluster that the video covers leading to Shooter.
@@jamesearlcash7725 Oftentimes, yes. Truth doesn't mean nice or good. I think there was a poem about it ... or maybe that was just The Simpsons?
"Comic book nerds tend to be resistant to change of any kind" - truer words were never spoken.
And a great video, I should add. The edits, the production, the script, I didn't even notice it's almost 18 minutes. Awesome work.
egon244 it’s not just comic book nerds but any following of an original content stories of books, plays, etc.
Exactly they get on my nerves alot like theyre Adhd mentally challenged impaired
At least you give us a warning and Stan Lee would be probably laughing at the jokes
Stan Lee was a complicated man. He knew he would be made fun of for the rest of eternity, and he only wanted in on it. I love the man’s legacy, but he did a lot to be mad about or make fun of. It’s okay.
I would love to see a video on your thoughts and feelings on Stan.
Hearing James and Maso show up was fun. It’s always great to see creators you love working together :)
Oh; and Yes! I would love to hear your thoughts on the Last Great Stan Lee!
The Rat's Cast late great you mean
@@HealthyAndrew '
This was a really really good episode. 💯
Would love to hear your thoughts on Stan Lee!
When there's trouble you know who to call...
MARV WOLFMAN!
Who you gonna call?
@Xenogamer Senpai Ghostbusters 2016
Was not expecting Mr Sunday Movies but I'm pleasantly surprised!
ooh, and Maso!
_"That was great Mason!"_ "I'm Jim Shooter!" (13:15)
"That's the one Scott, that's the take." (14:39)
And Claire, Jimmy's wife... I think.
RUclips has conditioned me to be so excited when a video is red released and able to watch that these premiers feel completely anticlimactic.
I almost forgot to watch this video because of this stupid system.
Guess who drew your name in the Patreon gift exchange? Keep an eye out for a package! Great channel man!
Thanks so much! I got it in the other day, and it looks incredible!
Wow I can’t believe Jim Shooter made comics at such a young age. That’s actually pretty interesting.
He did. And in some ways he’s responsible for the Legion of Superheroes becoming what they are. While the Teen Titans didn’t take off, the Legion who Shooter wrote inspired by his own teenage friends did. He also created the Parasite.
I've met Jim Shooter, he's a really nice man. He's also a heck of a story teller.
5:11 CaptainMidnight?
After 6:35 It's more Sunday Movies!
After 9:18 and 11:11 it's MASON from Sunday Movies!
Yeah it does sound like Mason
As someone who grew up watching the Teen Titans show, I did not expect to have that “and when there’s trouble, you know who to call” into the theme song drop hit me like a ton of bricks.
This channel is truly so special. Your love of comic books is always apparent and the production value only seems to be going up. I also love the community aspect with so many youtubers participating especially the Weekly Planet duo! Keep up the great work.
I almost fell out of my chair at "That's so Raven!" :D
I wonder if Shooter's unpopularity actually comes down to these guys actually having a real boss for the first time in years.
One thing though: as much as Shooter was hated, he did fix a lot of Marvel's problems and lead to their big period. The only problem is that once he was gone, it all went to hell in a handbasket...but that's another story.
"is that a real quote?"
"it sounds like a real quote"
BEST LINE
Scott, that was such a great video! Absolutely love how much you've matured over the years doing this, not only has your overall presentation improved dramatically, but the quality has never diminished.
man, when that teen titans theme song hit, I got some feels
And to think people diss Joe Quesada for Spiderman's marriage. They clearly never knew about Jim Shooter.
Jim Shooter is the greatest of them all. He wasn't just a "young up-and-comer" but a wunderkind who had things figured out at sixteen that a _lot_ of other folks in the business _never_ seem to get a handle on. I wouldn't say he's got the creative gifts of a Marv Wolfman or fanboyish enthusiasm for the characters of a Roy Thomas, but the insights he has are what made him the best possible choice for Editor In Chief.
I love the production values in this video! Great to see you guys are still around :)
Also, I hecking love the new teen titans. Most of that era of 70's comics is a little too... goofy? for me. But New Teen Titans is so mature, and isn't afraid to be dark, but like, in a genuine way. It wasn't Miller dark, or Moore dark, it was a bright and colourful world, but with such broken people in it. Starfire's origin comic still makes me cry, and Cyborg's stories are often hard to read. I mean... I also have a heaping helping of nostalgia for the Teen Titans animated series that adapted most of the run, so there's that too. Idk... there's just something about this comics run that speaks to my soul, that misfit part of me. Gives me hope.
I had no idea that Marv Wolfman was Australian... and a goat in a Han Solo vest.
Hmm. Since Jim Shooter had the infinity gauntlet, I guess that explains things.
Yeah plus he’s not a wolfman at all he’s a goat
Love these bits of comic history and how real life stuff transitions into masterpieces
Jim Shooter...the man behind Doctor Doom's mask..
This video won with the that's so raven line alone
I really like the cinematography in this video. Scott has improved continuously during the years.
I definitely chuckled at the smart phone hung up on the cradle, and the "that's so Raven" line.
Man, Scott. This was an impeccable production. The photography, motion graphics, and general presentation was really exceptional! I know you were fretting over the audio quality on Twitter, but it came off as A-Okay to me despite the extra reverb in the room. If you want, you can buy a telescoping boom mic stand to get your microphone closer to you while on-camera. I did that earlier this year, and it was a real improvement! Anyway, this was a really stellar piece of work!
Stan Lee drunk on Christmas wine is the most beautiful sentence I never thought I would hear.
Say what you will about Shooter, he presided over one of the better time periods in Marvel history and then started Valiant which was very good under his guidance. He is a skilled editor.
"That's so RAVEN!" Nice one Scott! :)
Funny enough; Marv Wolfman's New Teen Titan (later called Titans) was one of the few DC books I read regularly. My favorite story involved Donna ("Who Is Wonder Girl?") as she learned the truth about who and what she was! As she took on the name Troia. That series would come to an end in 2002, but I had dropped the book way before it ended; as I was cutting down the number of comics I was buying. After spending over $100 a month; something needed to change! My love of comics would was too much on my wallet, and had to come to end shortly after!
The Rat's Cast Are you sure you don’t mean Who is Donna Troy? That story was one of the best of their run.
Johnny Tseng, nope, "Who Is Donna Troy" and "Who Is Wonder Girl" are two different stories. The first is a single issue noir-esque story from...1983 I believe?...where Dick Grayson investigated and found what happened to Donna's biological parents, that's the one you're referring to. And I agree, it's great.
However...that version of Donna's backstory involved Wonder Woman saving her from a burning building as a toddler and bringing her to Themiscyra, where she grew up. In the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths Wonder Woman reboot (written by George Perez), Diana only left Themiscyra to live in Man's World a year ago. So, she couldn't have rescued Donna and brought her to Paradise Island. And so, Marv had to write a new backstory for Donna, retconning "Who Is Donna Troy". The new backstory was told in a 5 part story published in 1988, called "Who Is Wonder Girl", which ends with Donna taking on the identity of "Troia". That identity didn't stick quite as well as, say, when Marv gave Dick Grayson the new identity of Nightwing, though.
And that's only one part of Donna's convoluted publication history (she was literally created by accident! ) The irony of this is even though Marv and George co-wrote the older "Who Is Donna Troy", they're directly responsible for the need to retcon it. Marv wrote Crisis on Infinite Earths and George wrote the Wonder Woman reboot (which were both really good and worth reading, mind you).
The more you know!
@@redhawkmillenium "Who is Wonder Girl" was the story that gave Donna's (first) post-Crisis Origin. It was also the storyline where they took Teen out of the title.
DC had rebooted Wonder Woman having her arrive in the present day. New Teen Titans was too popular and Donna was an essential member, so her ties to Wonder Woman had to be severed since they were now pretty much the same age and Donna had been operating as Wonder Girl for years before Wonder Woman ever appeared.
It did a decent job, keeping the Greek Mythology angle and most of the New Teen Titans history. Pretty much just the Thia storyline had to be dumped. While that had introduced two new characters, one was always meant to be killed off in Crisis and the other never caught on and silently disappeared.
0:30 on the left hand you can notice DC's first two African American superheroes that are constantly treated like crap! Malcolm Duncan a.k.a. Guardian, Herald, Vox created in 1970 and Karen Beecher a.k.a. Bumblebee created in 1973. DC claims Black Lightning was first but he was created in 1977.
I like the storyline too
Would love to see a video about your feeling on Stan “ _THE_ True Believer” Lee
You mean Stan the man Lee
You mean Stan "the man who takes credit for the works of everyone else" Lee?
justin fwibber yup
@Captain Marvel
I bet you think Steve Jobs made Apple and not Wozniak.
Stan Lee's personality was big & broad and to minimize that would diminish him as a whole human. I began collecting in the 60s and Stan was everything...AND by the time I was in my mid teens in the 70s we were getting clued in. Even without the internet and news about comics everywhere it was obvious that there were personality disputes and flaws running rampant throughout the industry. This is a terrific Channel so give us everything you got. It's a well-known fact that Jim Shooter was difficult to say the least. Things always work out and because life isn't lived in a vacuum it's okay if someone's a dick. That usually spawns something else from those around them. As much as I admire both John Byrne & Chris Clairmont it was getting obvious to all us readers that not everything was going well down at the bullpen. If it was easy it wouldn't be art.
Learning a little about Stan's humanity is only going to make us love him more. Bring it on.
:)
I get that Shooter is an easy target but it begs the question, "Shooter insisted on tight deadlines." How was he wrong? He has stated that comics are a relationship with the buyer and fans should be able to expect April's comics in April, not June. He clashed with the super talented Chris Clairemont but Clairemont kept trying to put bedroom scenes between the cannon age 14 year old Kitty Pryde and young adult Colossus. How was Shooter wrong for repeatedly vetoing those even if it frustrated one of his top writers? Yes, Shooter's desire to control the look of every single book had to be frustrating in a creative environment but people got paid more under Shooter, Marvel gained stability and creator owned comics became a reality under Shooter with the Epic line. Yes, a lot of people's favorite writers and artists clashed with Shooter but look at the chaos surrounding any company with a weak EiC and compare and contrast Shooter's run and his insistence on quality ad having projects complete. Maybe Shooter is the big bad in this little drama, but maybe, he's also the adult looking at the bottom line and trying to impose some order in what had been an increasingly chaotic company. Josef Rubenstein once said Shooter was the kind of person who didn't understand "Gee, you don't sweat much for a fat girl," wasn't a compliment so it isn't hard to understand how he became unpopular but to casually paint him as a complete villain seems beneath the kind of research and explanation you're trying to offer here. It's also worth pointing out, many of these people had left DC for Marvel and received promotions before resigning those promotions and jumping back to DC. It is often the nature of the business that creative differences become intensely personal and someone leaves the company.
Jim Shooter is Stan Lee without the charm and social skills. Think about it
I was thinking about that. One also must mention his work with Valiant comics. Where the man worked long hours, he set up programs to teach young artists. That man helped plenty of people get into the business.
Was he a flawless man? God no! Its plain to see that he had issues, but that doesn't mean that he deserves to be as badly looked upon as some thinks he should be.
I grew up in and starting reading comics in the Shooter era, and those are still my favorite books. I hear everyone put down Shooter, and I get the impression that it was probably his bedside manner, but I get the feeling I'd probably get along better with him than anyone working at Marvel or DC these days. That he lasted as long as he did, I think, says a lot about him and Marvel's need at the time for someone like that. Just glad he wasn't my boss, too.
@@Goldnfoxx Yeah, I respect the man's work edict, if not his apparent bad manners, but I just know that if I was his employee I would not ever get on with the man. Maybe even if I wasn't, but you get what I am saying?
Jim Shooter is the reason Hank Pym will forever be known as a "wife beater" and he didn't even bother to finish the storyline or publish an erratum or clarification until YEARS later.
the overall quality of this video was amazing! props to you and all the wonderful people involved in producing this!
Anyone else notice how often he slows down his speech then speeds it back up right after?
Theatre my friend...Theatre
I think enough time has past that we could tolerate an honest reflection on Stan Lee's past.
Awesome video. I loved the Teen Titans all through the 70’s, but I especially loved the New Teen Titans in the 80’s. It was very interesting to hear all about their creation.
There should be a separate video that is just Mr. Sunday Movies and Mason saying all the lines you made up specifically to abuse your power.
The production quality of this is INSANE. Feels like it belongs on TV.
I love how you left the ending of Nicks V.O 😂 good job maso. I'm Jim Shooter 😂
The Titans have always been my favorite, 1981 was my senior year of high school. I have Wolfman and Perez, both wonderful men and last year met Jim Shooter in Lexington, KY, he is a very nice man.
I would love a Stan Lee tribute, also I'd like to know more about John Verpoorten
I remember the first time I saw your video. It was nothing like I've ever seen before. It had and still has content that is unique and it actually make tou think rather than rapid blur of names and visuals from similar sources. Scott, your style has definitely evolved and they are a breath of fresh air and most welcome. It's sad that rapidly changing RUclips and comics and related scene has put you in a position which might not be really comfortable but I really appreciate your determination and efforts. I love watching your videos and just keep up the great work.
Omggg mr sunday moviess!!! Right? Hahaha
Shooter is actually a pretty interesting guy. Looking into his time putting together Valiant Comics and his subsequent ousting just as it became successful would not be a waste of time...
This video was beautifully written and edited. I really hope people will recognise the quality in this video. You deserve a lot of views on this one!
I think Jim Shooter is absolutely fascinating. He’s truly gifted in so many areas, except one - people skills. Unfortunately, if you manage people in any capacity, let alone in a huge artistic endeavor, it’s people skills that count the most. Apparently his time under the thumb of Mort Weisinger wasn’t entirely healthy. He learned how to edit, true, but Mort also loved to play mind games with his writers.
Amused by Marv Wolfman's accent. I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times.
...I know he wouldn't remember me, though.
Teen Titans was my very first comic book. I found it in the public library and read it when I was 10. That inspired a love of comics that is still with me 43 years later.
I miss your videos, Scott! Please make more!
"You want a supernatural horror mystery? That..."
*pause, rolls Will save vs. temptation, nat 1*
"...'s so Raven."
*immediate tregtet*
Also, DKlarations sounds almost exactly like Claremont himself in interviews and that is terrifying and awesome.
When there's trouble you know who to call...
*MARVEL EXECS!*
marvel needs somebody like jim shooter right now
Was that Mr. Sunday movies as marv wolf man? That's sweet.
Jim Shooter is a man who looks at you though the picture. His eye study and plot your downfall. Yes your specific downfall. His glare bends time and space and he is currently, in the past plotting your specific downfall.
Those horrible, horrible eyes.
3:00
Yes, YOU GOT MR. SUNDAY MOVIES!
Not going to lie, this story always makes me so so happy. That, and when you put into consideration that he didn't WANT to create some of the characters. He absolutely HATED the idea of making a mage-type character, only creating Raven at the absolute insistence of some of the DC editors. However, after some pitballing with George Perez, he was able to figure out a storyline idea that he liked enough to be able to write her.
Thus, one of the (arguably) most influential characters in the DC Universe was born.
Wolfman and Perez were both such huge inspirations to me as a kid. I've always been a fan and always will be. :)
Yes crazy how Raven went from Marv’s unwanted child to his favourite. He even said most of the girls who want his autograph happen to be dressed as her at conventions.
Honestly this video is fantastic, well informed and interesting. Scott, you shouldn't worry about making fun of or misinterpreting the memory of Stan Lee. As you said it yourself, he would want people to remember him for who he was, and not through rose-tinted glasses.
I am certain Stan retains an incredible sense of humor.
I really liked this live format, it was pretty cool. It'd be nice to see this a little bit more in future but not every video.
Agreed. This will be great for specials and SUPER indepth and dramatic things like this.
Keep up the great work. These are some of the best stuff on the internet. I've been a big nerd sync fan for years but ever since the Captain American episode the quality of the videos is just amazing. It feels different than just about every other thing on youtube, in a good way. This feels like something that would be on TV.
I was just rewatching a couple of your older videos yesterday. Can’t wait to see what this video has in store!
I came to learn about Teen Titans.
I stayed to learn how Jim Shooter was a violently sweaty man.
I’m excited! (Apparently way more then others in this comment section)
Just finished the episode: Worth it!
No, it wasn't.
superlive98 yeah well to each there own I guess
Absolutely Amazing scott! love the video
Marv gave us Crisis on Infinite Earths. Amem that!
TOTALLY!
I see you with that "Thats So Raven." reference!
Let's say this about Jim Shooter....People might not have liked working with him. But....Look at how great those peoples' work was while Jim was there keeping them in line. And how bad a lot of them sucked when Jim left. That is part of the problem with a lot of modern comics. The "editors" spend all day sitting around texting and tweeting and not manning the ship. A lot of creators need someone to pull them back a little when they go off the rails. Unbridled creativity can become unreadable chaos. NOTE: I don't mean that about all modern comics. A lot of them are great and it's one of my favorite periods in comics. But a lot of editors need to get their stuff together and pay attention to what is going on in their books, other books, the whole quesadilla. SECOND NOTE: Just because someone is dead doesn't mean you can't tell funny stories about them. Being dead doesn't make you a saint.
oh man I heard 'James, also known as Mr Sunday and with him as always is his co host Nick Maaaaaaasooon' And absolutely lost my mind!!!!! I love those guys! Such a fun and unexpected cameo!
I really like the format used here, with the "story within a story" approach. However, if you lack the budget to always do these episodes, I would not complain if you needed to go back to the "lone talking head" format. ... But if you do have the budget, the tongue-in-cheek outer story is really fun.
Geoff Johns' run on Teen Titans is my favorite lineup and storyline for the Teen Titans
That JLA version of the Titans was my introduction to superhero comics, I will always love it.
I actually really like the premier thing, it makes me kinda more exited for the video to come out, especially when it's something this high of quality! And I get to watch people's real time reactions to the video.
I love nick, mr Sunday movies and captain midnight, thank you Scott for putting together a nice collaboration :)
I would love to hear your thoughts on Stan lee
True story. I was at a comics convention in Atlanta in 1986. All the Marvel bigwigs were there. At some point, I walked into a hotel restroom...and found Jim Shooter making grunting noises, posing heroically, and admiring himself in the mirror. When he saw me, he straightened up and tried to act all cool and nonchalant. "Hiya, kid," he said, and walked out. Ever since that moment, I've been spreading the word far and wide: Jim Shooter is a total goober. 😆
Do the story of stan lee as you did the story of adam west
This video is so well done that I now want an office drama series on Netflix about the working conditions at Marvel and DC
Very good video. I enjoyed the history discussed in the video. I never knew any of this. It really is very interesting to learn all of this and to think the real life events that shaped Marvel and DC in the present day. Thanks for a great video.
If you like history misrepresented to suit a biased narrative, you mean.
Now, this...this is what attracted me to this channel in the beginning. Behind the scenes discussions and stories that aren't overly sugar-coated.
You can say what you want. Jim shooter did more for Marvel Comics than anyone besides Stan Lee. However, their quality is now so low I doubt even he could save them.
I’ve been watching NerdSync for years now, and it just keeps getting better. Thanks for such quality content, Scott and company. Excelsior!
Your videos are terrific . This one was brilliant and excellently done. You have grown quite a bit as a creator though I worry the high production value may be causing way too much time between videos.
I hope you do a stan Lee video. Immediately after Lee’s passing I came to your channel and binged. You have really helped show Stan’s humanity.
Don't think that Freddie Prinze Jr gag went unappreciated. Good stuff as always, Scott!
Haven't finished watching yet ,but already know the video is gonna be 🔥. Thanks NerdSync for all these amazing vids excelsior
I Love Almost All of Stan The Man’s Movie Cameos,my Least Favorite Being Princess Diaries 2,&,my Most Favorite Being Captain America:Civil War,”Package For Tony Stank”,Doesn’t Get Better Then That
as long as he gets results im good with shooter
100% agree. Look at how books came out under Shooter and how they are now that they let everyone do whatever they want. I'll take "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" and The Dark Phoenix Saga over "America: Why You All Racists" and "Captain Marvel: Why You All Sexist (and Racist!" any day.
Creatives hated Jim Shooter because he actually made them sell comics and finish their comics on time instead of stroking their egos and doing whatever stupid idea they had. But looking back on Marvel history, it's a slam dunk to say that Jim Shooter was obviously in the right.
Also, the genius Marv Wolfman said that sci-fi doesn't sell when Marvel was pitched Star Wars.
I can say with a doubt that nerd sync is one of the best channels in the game
I can't be the only one who, when Scott said "When there's trouble, you know who to call" thought: "When there's trouble, you call DW."
Scott, I just want to say that I am always happy when I see you've uploaded a new video. I know that making these takes a lot of time and effort, and I really do appreciate it. I know I'm not alone in saying that I hope you can get to a point soon where you can make even more awesome videos for us nerds.
I feel this video is overly harsh to Jim Shooter. Look at the EICships to follow him. Under DeFalco you had the grimdark excess of the 90s, followed by the insanity of the 5 EICs, followed by the slightly less bad Bob Harras who didn’t even capitalize upon the X-Men movies and tried to semi-reboot the F4 and Avengers, followed by Bill Jemas who was good only for his trade program, followed by Quesada who was responsible for among other disasters House of M, Civil War and One More Day, followed by his Yes Man Alonso who oversaw much of the messes of the last decade including Secret Empire, a story so stupid it likely got him fired and Marvel’s problems covered by mainstream news.
In comparison under Shooter Marvel addressed it’s problems in the 1970s, expanded creatively and financially and delivered the greatest concentration of classic and iconic stories in it’s history.
We can talk about how he treated people all we want but his job was primarily to make the books sell, keep Marvel profitable and make the stories good and he succeded in that like almost no one before him and certainly no one since. So evidently his tactics as a boss worked.
And frankly, as much as creators can say they hated being treated like children...comic creators are children. 99% of problems in comic books stem from either the extreme of editorial interference (which is talked about alot) but also from creators being let off the leash and allowed to indulge in whatever they want (which isn’t talked about a lot). Shooter seemed to allow enough give on the reigns for creators to do what they wanted to a certain extent but also set hard boundaries.
But it’s comic book creators acting like children which results in obviously wrongheaded stuff like Secret Empire, Parker Industries, Civil War I-II and the Clone Saga.
If creators were treated like children by Shooter but also under Shooter produced their some of their best work (Byrne complains but his F4 run is the pinnacle of his career honestly) then maybe they needed to be treated like children.
In the modern day where people like Dan Slott mudsling on twitter maybe we could use some more of that.
The bashing on Jim Shooter was innecesary. He probably was not a pleasant person to the writers/artist... but he keep the position for 9 years with great success. Both comercially and criticaly. Also people always forget the fact that Stan Lee himself want to promote him, the best EiC that Marvel ever has. Also all the guidelines he implements in his tenure wasn't out of spite to the artist, but to his love at the comics.
Exactly... Everyone hates a good Drill Seargent.. especially the bad guys.
I really enjoy the new "acted out" explanations. Great job guys
I love this small crossover with James with Maso
I'm quite late but this is a fantastic video in every aspect. From the way it's shot, to the production value, too the humor. Everything. Please do more of this. Applause all around
Also got job on getting James and Maso
Love to see a video on Stan Lee