Nobody Understands: Batman Under the Red Hood
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- Опубликовано: 4 янв 2020
- Both the comic, and film adaptation for this classic Batman story bring to light a unique side of the Dark Knight which is rarely seen. However the way these two versions go about doing this is completely different, leading to an ending that has an altered message.
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There is actually a lot to Jason that notoriously goes unexplored, like the fact that he was the best student of any Robin, loves literature, has almost as much training as Bruce, and is loyal to a fault. I'd argue that he isn't about vengeance, rather protecting people who can't protect themselves. Jason has been the victim of a broken society his entire life. He knows what it is like to feel hopeless, abandoned, and desperate. He knows what it's like to constantly be looking over his shoulder, seeing the face of his murderer in every crowd. Jason is at his core a survivor who seeks to ease the pain of other victims and end the cycle by whatever means necessary. Which is backed up even more by the things people forget about him, like his empathy, protective instincts, loyalty, and determination. He sees the holes in Bruce's system, and he isn't willing to let people be collateral damage in the fight for Gotham's soul. He isn't just a man about anger, he's also about recovery, trauma, and survival. He’s a boy that’s only ever wanted to be loved a boy who just wanted to make Batman proud a boy that just wanted a family. And to see his dad not only let the man live who’s done so much live and replace him and take his life his family that was he was so desperate have still be alive you can’t blame the poor kid.
Plagiarism at its finest
@@TrueHeroAriellmao I’m glad you noticed 😊
Red hood: why did u let him live?
Batman: because the plot would send Gotham something even worse.
By Christian ideologue, we are all part of a larger plot
TRinfamous His name would probably be Hush
Shut up, Scott Snyder.
I disagree on movie Batman being willing to let Joker die. Batman walking away isn't him making a choice, it's him refusing to answer the question.
That's why when Jason reiterates, instead of answering "Kill him." Bruce just keeps walking. Bruce isn't giving Jason an answer, he's ignoring him. Jason gets pissed that Bruce is basically no selling his ultimatum and turns the gun on him which gives Bruce the opportunity he needs to disarm Jason without Joker getting shot.
Bruce knew Jason would refuse to be ignored and used that against him.
You're right.
I thought that was pretty clear tbh. You're spot on.
it could also be that Bruce knew that while Jason was seriously pissed....he wouldnt kill joker. there was still the good in him. Personally I believe there should be a joker death at some point, and Jason should be the one to do it.
@@speedlgt I doubt that he wouldn't have killed Joker. In that same movie he killed less monstrous men for far less. In the comic too.
@@speedlgt Killing the Joker wouldn't make Jason any less of a good person, if anything a better person would have killed Joker forever ago because letting him live brings nothing but suffering into the world.
I personally feel like the film is the more valid interpretation of events as it was written by the same writer as the comic story who has said he took the opportunity to not only simplify the story but also improve it.
Same
Agreed
At least Bruce didn't slit Jason's throat in this one.
The only improvement is the voice acting. The ending is a cop-out
@@rafaelmarkos4489 I slightly disagree with the video interpretation of Batman freak out. I think that it has to do with his morals. But not because he wants to save Joker. I think he wants to save Jason. He knows Jason has already been killing, but he can't allow Jason to kill a person infront of him and not try. Its because he cares about Jason and he thinks allowing him to kill is a compromise on his Morals.
The movie is outstanding imho. I wish we could get live action Batman movies as good as Under the Red hood.
Dark knight trilogy is damn great. Are you ok?
ljpal18 only the second movie was actually great.
@@ZxChrono all 3 were.
Wish we could get a live action mask of the phantasm as well
ZxChrono considering they’ve all been praised outside of the comic book crowd as legitimately good movies, I’d say they succeeded at being just as good if not better than Under the Redhood.
I feel like another good difference to point out is that, instead of Joker getting ahold of a gun, the bombs were set by Jason. And then, when confronted with the bombs, Batman chose JASON, and left the Joker laying there.
"I find it ironic that one Robin leaves the grave while another enters it"
That's one of my favorite quotes of comics.
What? Who "enters it"?
@@TheCapedArtist at the same time Bludhaven got nuked so Dick Grayson was presumably dead. He lived, but unbeknownst to batman.
@@DirtyDanRichards is it when he became agent 37 or whatever? I remember that batman knew he was alive
@@TheCapedArtist This was pre new 52. He worked for death stroke for a while before this.
@@DirtyDanRichards I'm 17 lol, I was really young when I read pre new 52 although I remember reading a lot of it. Can you name the comic you're referring to please?
There once was a man named jason
Who thought he could take after grayson
He looked for his mom
But instead found a bomb
Now his brain is a wasten
Ouch
Good one 👍
Brilliant
Joker would totally say this.
Nice
I think the main issue with the no killing rules of DC is that writers seem to treat it as thought there's no middle ground between it and the heroes becoming tyrants.
I agree, just because you kill one man doesn't make you a monster. If so than we should lock up every soldier whos ever been in battle, every doctor who has had a patient pass away in front of them, every last son and daughter who has had to make the tough decision of him, or ME.
Its more that when you do it once. the next time is easier. Then easier then easier. It's the possible slippery slope that option leads on that turns heroes into tyrants down the line.
That *kIlLiNg Iz BaD* shit is the most juvenile shit I've ever seen in any work of fiction.
I think that red hood is that middle ground, as he does kill people, but he isn’t a madman.
I think it’s a little more complicated than that most of the time. Take Injustice Superman. Superman is good because he works hard to maintain a sense of humanity. It’s the entire point of his Clark Kent persona: he needs to live as the people he serves and protects to understand them. Him killing the Joker isn’t the first step down a slippery slope, but rather the first indication that he’s given up on his adopted humanity after he lost Lois and Metropolis, the second taking place not long afterwards when he outs his secret identity, showing that he no longer considers Clark Kent to be necessary.
If Gotham had the death penalty most of this could’ve been avoided.
Josh Evans Gotham does lol. Joker and co. are mentally ill so that’s why it doesn’t apply.
Uncle Lucifer Zed Emphasis on “Real Life”
Uncle Lucifer Zed no
To be fair, I think Joker would become an exception after his tenth mass killing.
@@spoodurmin9742 you are only considered mentally ill If you plead this into court.... Joker said several times that he's not mentally, that's just who he is and embraces it, hell even Batman said that Joker isn't even ill he just seems that way with how extreme he is.
I feel that the movie really does it better since it has emotion pouring out of Batman and Jason in that scene. Jensen Ackles certainly has the broken, disappointed kid sound down there and Bruce Greenwood gives Batman the edge to his voice of confined madness at what killing just one person would do to him.
I don't think its madness, confined or not. Batman just isn't a killer, no matter what. Not everyone can kill.
I've always seen Batman turning away before throwing the Batarang to be a con. A way for him to get the gun pointed at him, rather than Joker. Nothing about it seems like a compromise, and feels entirely like it was a deliberate strategy.
Joseph Ercanbrack Batman’s fucking smart
I know right, I thought it was obvious
Maybe so, but in narrative is the moment where Jason's point stops being a moral one, as he points a gun to a man who has do him no wrong and is not a menace in any way to him
Everthing he dose feels like that it’s about finding the bullshit from genuine strategy . FYI I agree with what u said but even then there are some obvious bs scenario that Batman somehow get out of
Nah, Batman has been willing to let the joker die before as long as the one who would be pulling the trigger is someone who has suffered incredibly at his hands.
I always took his walking away as a move to bait Jason into turning the gun off of his hostage, since Batman can’t really do anything with the gun against Joker’s head.
Mace Windu: HE'S TO DANGEROUS TO LIVE!
Batman: It's against my ways!
Honestly Under the Red Hood is one of my personal favorite Batman stories, being that Jason Todd’s death is one of the few times Batman has truly failed. And having him return as an anti-hero and being a living reminder of said faliure is very interesting, as well as Jason questioning Batman’s moral code due to it being the reason that both him and plenty of others suffered. Yet at the same time, Batman knows that criminals will always exist no matter how much you rid the word of, and that going against his code is the one thing keeping him from potentially becoming another one of them. Really, it’s the duality between Batman and Jason that drives this story, since none are particularly wrong, but just doing what they believe in based on what they’ve been through.
Overall, great video.👌🏽I was totally bummed when they removed the movie from Netflix, because it’s really great.
Crono Sapien This and Mask of the Phantasm are my two favorites.
John Smith Mask of the Phantasm is very great as well.👌🏽
I'm pretty sure it's on HBO now
I love that story, one of the greatest Batman comics.
The movie did a great job of streamlining the comic. So many parts are straight from the comics and others were made better.
@@buckroger6456The film did a lot of things worse tbh. Jason’s final moment with bruce was a cop out, because Batman can’t face repercussions, so make everyone who stands against him an emotional wreck who can’t keep it together. Jason is far more stupid in the film than in the comic. Jason didn’t do an elaborate plan to break out the Joker in the comics, Jason went after Black Mask because he deserved it, not to draw out Batman.
@0neiros. oddly enough I like both, but enjoyed the movie more. The graphic novel was a little all over the place. It has been a long time now since I've read the novel or watched the film.
My MAN.
It makes me happy to see you touch on my favorite Batman story of all time. I wasn't even aware of the adaptational change in that scene, having only watched the animated version. It's just...SO well done.
One of my favorite things about Batman is the fact that despite the DRASTIC variation in themes he's had over the decades (I can't think of a series with as much tone dissimilarity as the campiness of Batman '66 and the disturbing Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth). I have a particular attachment to Under the Red Hood, as it (alongside Knightfall) introduced me to the more serious Batman stories, and I'm happy you evidently share a fondness to it too.
Also fuckin love you using the ODST soundtrack, you absolute man of taste you
In universe you'd think the Gotham city government or whatever would have joker executed by now. As for our universe joker is only alive because of marketing.
A PERFECT analysis/dissection on one of the most fascinating conflicts in the Dark Knight's crime fighting career. It's really hard to argue with Jason Todd's stance on just The Joker being the one to get a bullet through the head, just as he's done so MANY others... including those who The Batman could've saved, if he just did him in. So powerful and so poetic, yet also very sad.
I read the comic recently after after watching the movie and it amazes me how much of the original dialog they managed to keep from comic climax to movie. How much of the fights scene play out the same, I also loved that point where Jason confronts the Joker on his "act" and made Joker frown was amazing in my eyes.
Chad Red Hood > Virgin Batman
*Catholic Batman Gregory who don't have premarital sex
@@skeletor4436 I know I'm just joking chill
I really love that you use Halo 3: ODST music
*Nostalgia*
Trollinator 2000 I was thinking the same thing! Thank you for posting this!
Tbh I kinda like the idea that Batman was willing to compromise. Makes him more human, and the fact that he was willing to compromise also makes him seen *less* insane..
Social Account well it ain’t his job to play judge and jury,that’s the courts job and also he has compromised before darkseid,joker(in some instances),and I believe braniac
what's insane about throwing a maniac back in jail when he escapes? Gotham needs to do a better job at keeping it's criminals contained
How does not killing make one INSANE in your mind?
@@Ares99999 Don't be obtuse.
You gotta understand how significant it is that Jason doesn't even ask for Batman to kill Dent. Y'know- since Dent is the one who killed his father.
Without a doubt Under the Red Hood is my favorite Batman story, and scenes like this show why. Also, Neil Patrick Harris as Nightwing in the movie is just perfect casting, right along with Jensen Ackles as Jason.
Robin: Why do you let him live?
Batman: I would enjoy that too much... and you don't want to see a Batman who laughs.
You forgot an important part:Batman says that he wouldn’t be able to stop himself if he kills.
Or at least he fears that he wouldn't.
Like how in batman begins he even said i can't kill you but that doesn't mean i have to save/help you to Ra's Al Ghul
Great comic. The Only batman comic I have ever read. Last I saw, Batman and Red Hood are trying to have some stability. But it's been a while since I looked up the latest issues.
Batman and Red Hood are on relatively good terms in the comics and are currently doing their own things.
@@SuperboyLilly Oh good. Last I checked in on it Red Hood finished playing socialite and running penguin's casino. And his dad appeared.
I extremely recommend you to read batman the long Halloween
You Know If Jason had of Just pulled the Trigger on Joker right there what do you Think would have happened?
JoshMC2000 Jason just done fucked up.
batman beats Jason up and throws him into prison.
phenomenal vid, the film is definitely my favorite, especially the ending, so thanks for sharing your thoughts m8, I thoroughly enjoyed it
Red Hood Comics are still pretty solid. The team up between Artemis, Jason, and Bizzaro is absolutely awesome.
Except by that timeline Bruce had already seen what happens when he lets his no kill rule go. He’s seen future and alternate versions of himself that don’t have that rule and is always disgusted by it. A lot of the points are valid if the comic is in a position to be a stand alone, but it’s not. I do agree the movie is a better stand alone story, but there was a history that comes into play with comic confrontation you do seem to ignore...
I can't see a comment where anyone has said it, but
Jason isn't allowed in Gotham right now, if that answers your question about the comics
The fact that dean from supernatural plays Jason Todd makes the movie a 10/10
Wait, didn't Jason Todd came back to life because of Superboy-Prime during the Infinite Crisis?
@@BOOFIRE191 Technically the truck or car to hit him made Jason mindless.
9:15
Batman: I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you!
Ras: You literally helped derail this train, which will result in my demise.
Batman:
Ras:
Batman: I'm Batmaaa a a a a a...
Batman: ''You can Escape or die, The choice is all yours
''
This is one of the first stories I’ve read on Batman, looking back on it it’s gotten better with time and the movie really elaborated my love for it.
You know, it's even more sad to think Jason's only 19 in UTRH. (He was 18 in Batman: Hush.)
You had me and then you lost me. Bruce is the most calculated mind in DC love. He knew what he was doing by walking away from Robin, he knew that young boy would get his feelings twisted and used that as a distraction to prevent the homicide altogether.
heres the thing he was willing to let joker die in order to save jason when he set off the bombs
Yeah, but only because he was expecting Jason to shot him, in other words, his plan was to save himself, not the Joker or even Jason.
I knew a guy who killed an intruder for sneaking into his 5-yo daughter's room. The guy was sleeping like an angel, knowing he saved his daughter from trauma. With "no killing rule" Batman has more blood on his hands than Joker because he refuses to protect his family EFFECTIVELY. "Who does not punishes a crime creates another."
One of favourite batman stories
When Bruce says he could never go back if he killed the Joker I'm always reminded of what Scott Snyder did with the Dark Multiverse of Batman and how it showed how unstable Bruce is as a person. He doesn't trust himself to just kill one person especially when you get to the Grim Knight, a version of Batman who has drones patrolling the city and killing people.
The comic I think highlights at best that Bruce sees everyone involved as his responsibility and none of them can die because if someone died and he could have stopped it, he's just as guilty as whoever/whatever killed him. I think it works that he doesn't kill because Gotham is so messed up as a city that if Batman starts killing, the city would respond in kind, just look at how many other costume heroes operate in Gotham.
Jason himself isn't well off either, he's madder at Bruce than I think he wants to admit because when given every chance to kill the Joker he doesn't, he wants Bruce to do it and when Bruce doesn't want to, Jason points the gun at Bruce. It's about the Joker but also not about the Joker and Jason doesn't want to admit it.
Personally, I never understood why people keep asking Batman "why don't you kill the Joker?" why doesn't anyone? The police are so corrupt that none of them have tried to shoot the Joker?
Comic wise, recently Bruce and Jason had a good start but it deteriorated badly. Still mad that Jason still didn't come help save Gotham City from Bane after Alfred was killed. His Red-Hood and the Outlaws book was pretty fun though, him Artemis, and Bizarro teaming up was great.
The DC animation of UtRH is arguably the best animated Batman adaptation within that series. I re-watched it last year for the first time since I saw it on release, and it's actually a lot better than I remember. They really managed to capture the emotion and the tragedy of what happened to Jason.
There are only two characters I find properly suited to challenging Batman’s rule. Red Hood, of course. And.....crazy as this may sound: The Eradicator version of Lois Lane from Tales of the Dark Multiverse: Death of Superman.
Both essentially present the same more emotionally resonant version of the typical argument:
Letting killers leaves means more people will die...
But it can also mean losing people we love. With Jason, the example is himself. With Lois, the example is Clark.
Just a little rambling I wanted to do. Grain of salt and all that
Great vid man It was a suprise to see a Batman Vid but a welcome one
Something that bothers me about the comic version is batman aiming for Jasons neck of all places, he should know that it would probably kill him if he hit an arterie, right? That might have been an act of desperation but to Jason it might seem like he has made a choice to kill him to save the Joker (Great video, keep up the good work
Facts. That was pretty confusing and one of the reasons why I like the movie iteration more. He could've damn near killed him just to save the joker.
It’s literally the point?! Its an ultimatum! Jason wanted this to happen, either Bruce kills him to save the Joker, or the Joker dies. Bruce’s moral code cannot let a death he can prevent happen. The reason why Batman aimed for his throat was because it was the ONLY way to stop him, if it hit his shoulder it wouldn’t do anything, Jason made it clear that its either me or the Joker. The film ruined it and made it a cop out so Batman looks good and they keep sucking him off under the cape.
@@0neiros. Bro it seems you just hate Batman. Batman's no kill rule goes for everybody not just Joker. Why would he kill Jason and thereby break his own rule to save joker. Calm down bruh, the show did it better.
Under the Red Hood is my personal favorite film. Red Hood is my personal favorite DC character as well. Great video.
i found your channel randomly and i love your videos dig the odst sound music to
I don't blame Batman for not killing the Joker, he shouldn't be out there becoming a murderer himself, I blame the Ghotam criminal justice system, the guy escapes Arkham every other day and don't they have something like a death sentence or something??
P.D. I know it's a comic book at have it's logic so its all okay, I enjoy a good story.
I have always hated the absolutist nature of Batman's one rule. It is a back turned to the victims of murder and their surviving loved ones. It is also a big waggling middle finger to every single person who was forced to take a life in self defense and/or in the defense of others. To believe that deadly force is never justified is a childishly oversimplified worldview.
It truly is. But it does make for a very easy look at morality in media
@@magicalsealand5076 How does it make for a very easy look at morality in media?
@@UncleMikeDrop well on the surface it's a good way to paint hero's in the light they never kill, sure beat up, but never kill so there automatically technically doing a good thing. And on a deeper level you get stuff like the red hood
@@magicalsealand5076 Yeah, but what ever changes? Who ever learns anything? Batman still has his one rule and still places himself on some imagined moral high ground above those who are forced to kill. I get it from a writing perspective as there will never be a better Batman villian than Joker, but in universe, it just makes Batman the delusional useful idiot who enables the Joker's bodycount to keep rising.
@@UncleMikeDrop not disagreeing with you there man nothing changes really
It's a shame that movie just made Batman look better and wiser than he really is (cutting his son's throat in order to save maniac, yeah, let's just forget it). I prefer the comic book ending as more honest and emotional.
Love the movie though
I’m glad I watched this now thank you very much
YT algorithm worked for me again. Didn't even know you had videos on Berserk which is very refreshing. It's difficult to find real discussions on Berserk outside of the Skullknight forums.
Delighted to find you, subbed!
Should keep up with the modern comics the rebirth outlaw series is awesome.
Shows the growth and decay of Bruce and Jason’s relationship perfectly 👌.
I've recently read and watched Under The Red Hood back to back. And boy was the film a vast improvement.
Batman "I'm fine with crippling you for life and causing you unending misery but hey i don't kill so its okay"
You know, I love reading comics and i loved the movie, and when you talk about that ending in 5:50-6:00 it hits me how... How creepy, how morbid, how terrifying this is in the comics. (especially with this music lol..)This thing, exactly. And suddenly it made me love this ending more than the movie one... Thank you for a different point of view!
The writing of the comic and characters didn't always hit for me but I find the core conflict of the characters fascinating. To me, Jason and Bruce have the same goal: Don't let what happened to me happen again.
The story is constantly shoving the fact that Jason is specifically protecting children down your throat and I think this is why:
Bruce, as a child, experienced the pain that death can cause to others and swears to do anything to prevent it from happening to anyone else. Batman fights to prevent death.
Jason, also a child at the time, was murdered by a madman. And now he swears to do *anything* to keep that from happening to anyone else. Obviously and most effectively: with death.
It may be easier (and more effective) to prevent murder with murder, but that's what makes Batman a superhero.
The only reason people discuss if Batman should kill comes from the fact that the world he lives in is not allowed to evolve plus the fact that time works differently in comics.
At this point it gets stated multiple times that Bruce is active as Batman for round about 8-10 years in story, but we, the readers, follow his adventures for allmost a century now. We never get to see his full career as a caped crime-fighter, it always revolves around this one decade, the one were he finds his Robins, solves his first cases, etc. . Because his comics aren't allowed to have a definitive end his legacy gets stretched more and more with each passing year, updating events, people and technology to the current times which in turn also changes the stories that are told. It makes it so that the world he inhabits can't move on because permament changes coming from events like lets say "The killing joke" for example would make it impossible for the writters to stretch the story.
Batman is not a Judge. Batman is not a Jury. Batman, for sure, is no executioner. His role as Gotham Citys Knight is to help it defend itself from the monsters lurking in it, not become another one preying on those who came before him. The major point beeing the word "helping". He is not a police officer, he doesn't arrest people, he helps people like Gordon, Montoya or Bullock as sort of an equalizer. The rest falls upon the worlds system, and here we have the big issue that causes these insane debates.
The World in those stories is not allowed to adjust for super-villians and heroes. The storys we read about Batman can still make sense for the first 2 years or so, but afterwards? Even if we exclude villians from Superman, Flash or Green Lantern there would still be A LOT of changes in the law that would happen because of events like the smiling fishes, Harvey Dent getting consumed by the two-face personality, etc.. A breakout from Arkham still might happen, but only once or twice. Afterwards, in reality mind you, the world will have started to adjust to whatever insanity these people might throw at them. I also make the argument that, considering we are talking about America here, that one of these laws changing/ persisting would be the death-penalty because the public demand after some blood-baths caused by super criminals would propably be higher then anything, especially if it's people like the Joker or Scarecrow for example.
Long story short: Batman should never kill. Period. It is not his job to make sure that the criminalls can't repeat their mistakes. Whatever happenes after he catches them is on the system which then would have to do its job. That however became impossible because writters need to tell "new" stories about the Bat, meaning true progress is impossible.
When you mix Halo 3: ODST music with Under the Red Hood… shit gets good 😳
This reminds me of an old television crossover between Batman and Superman. Shortly before the plane crashes, Batman saves the life of Harley Quinn rather than the Joker’s.
The fact that the joker survived somehow is irrelevant.
One aspect of Batman that sometimes overlooked is his wish to save both predictor and prey.
I believe that both the example in the video and above, proves that he is not
morally blind and can prioritizing the life of those less damaged.
I've always seen him walking away as a con to get Jason to point the gun at him - but this? The idea of compromise and "I won't kill him, but I won't save him"? I really like it. I hadn't even considered it. Solid job, I really enjoyed the video!
From what I saw in the movie, Jason did not want to kill the Joker.
Jason wanted to know if Bruce could break his morals for people he cared for. Bruce however, outsmarted Jason.
which is ultimately stupid, and just a cop out to make Batman better
The ODST music from Halo fits so perfectly for Red Hood. I’d imagine that his character would thrive in that universe alongside Nightwing.
I truthfully admire Batman's capabilities as a normal person and I love his rogues gallery. I cannot stand his no killing thing like just so many people suffer and die because he doesn't make the hard choices. Not the segue into my neck beard fandom ;but that's why I love Storm from X-Men she's always a grounded solid person. Who gives second chances but whatever someone's literally irredeemable and they're not willing to step down. She has no problem making that choice
You sir have a new subscriber. Great video 👌🔥🤩
This is made worse in the admittedly non-canon second Punisher/Batman crossover. Like you know Frank would the moment he steps into Gotham, he goes after the Joker and has him at gunpoint. Batman, for contrived reasons, manages to get to the scene and wrangle the gun out of Frank's hand, telling Joker to run for his life. Frank pretty much makes the same argument Jason does years later, stating that Joker is going to keep killing people and he can end it then and there. Batman calls Punisher insane, and threatens to throw him into Arkham right next to all the other psychos.
Link to the comic here: ruclips.net/video/3i0tSYs9nTk/видео.html
What this displays to me is that Batman, for all the good he has done, is Joker's enabler. Because he is unwilling to face up to the fact that Joker cannot be saved and must be destroyed, hundreds of people have suffered and more will continue to unless he is willing to make the hard decision. If he truly believes that he cannot cross that line without becoming a monster himself, then he has no business wearing the cowl.
Great analysis!
Death in the family gave us the best anti hero out there in red hood!
Halo 3 ODST music too? My, you are a man of culture. Excellent video, btw.
This just reminds how much I like the movie so much
This is how I feel about Dragon Ball
A lot of people like it but nobody seems to understand or care about the theme and message of the franchise
Huh, I never thought of the scene like that, good insights.
The film adaptation is the magnum opus of Batman cinema. Change my mind.
I should really watch that film again man..
It's been like 5 years
I loved this movie way more than the comic.
I don’t usually comment on videos.
Interestingly, I just finished re watching this a few days ago.
It always takes getting used to for me when Hamill isn’t the voice of the joker, but DiMaggio did a great job.
I love the flashback scenes that Batman experiences.
While, all Batman movies(animated) make me feel satisfied(as in complete story) Red Hoods final scene left me feeling with such a sense of loss, and pain for Batman and mostly for Jason Todd.
This animated Batman movie( for me) has always been the most emotional and even after experiencing it so many times that feeling doesn’t diminish.
I just hope they don’t try and make a sequel. I would like a directors cut with the longer fight scenes and brutality.
The adaptation of Under The Red Hood is SO FUCKING GOOD explicitly because Batman turned and walk away. HE couldn't kill Joker, and he said why. But there was no doubt in his mind that Jason was right: That clown deserved to have his brains splattered on the wall. If anyone deserved to pull that trigger, it was one of the clown's victims. And Batman did not have to stop him from doing it. Wasn't going to. He can't do it. He can't even condone it. But he didn't have the right to step in-not this time-so he walked away.
Jason understand that. I did. Had I been Jason (says the middle-aged nerd-shaped keyboard ninja), I absolutely would have done it. This was the freakin' Joker! It wasn't Nigma or Cobblepot or Fries, it was Joker. (I will say Joker isn't the only one of Batman's rogues gallery I'd just end on the spot-and maybe that was Batman's point. You start with Joker, Victor Zsasz, and maybe Roman Sionis. The worst of the worst. The people who simply just need to freakin' die as a service to comic book universe mankind. They're beyond simply supervillains, they're sick SOBs who kill because killing is fun, and there's no fixing that kind of evil insanity. And then what?
The biggest killers are dead. What about Gotham's crime bosses? Don't they deserve the same fate? Where do you draw that line after you've crossed it? What about Deadshot? Depending on your continuity, the man's basically reformed. Can't say he's paid the debt to society he deserved, but nobody deserves Amanda Waller. But he was a hired killer and he was good at it. Didn't kill nearly as many as the others, but he did kill a lot of people.
What about Ra's Al Ghoul? That man's been killing for centuries and he literally runs an entire secret society of mercenary killers for hire. Assassins or shadows if you've gotta deal with BS (and more BS) and P, take your pick: They make people dead and have done so for centuries. His fault. Where do you draw that line after you've already crossed it?
And that's kind of Batman's point. So he cannot condone what Jason said he would do. But he didn't have the right to stop him either. Not this time.
Ah, that ODST soundtrack brings me back. Thank you.
I love the film and would love a live action version one day. I only have one gripe, Jason's mask under his helmet makes him look silly. They should have left the mask off.
Batman walking away at the end is a tactical choice, he's using Jason's anger to give himself an opening. Jason wanted a concrete yes or no answer, not dismissal. Regardless of his anger towards Bruce, he still wants his approval, hell he needs it, and Bruce figures it out. He figured the best way to win is to not play Jason's game. Also are we just not going to mention the Superboy Prime Retcon Punch?
I think a BIIIIIG point that's being ignored her, by you and the comic, is that Bruce DID try to kill Joker when Jason died. It was a huge deal.
Jason had traveled to Iran to follow a lead on his mother, who he had believed to have been dead beforehand. In truth, it was a ploy by Joker. who had actually found Jason's mother, and then blackmailed her and used her as bait to lure Jason into a country that he had power in *(more on that in a sec). He then locked up both Jason and his mother in a room, beat Jason to near death, and left Jason and his mother to die with a bomb in the room. (This was the infamous "will Jason die? call this number to make it happen" scene was posed). Next issue Bruce was feverishly chasing down Jason's trail and managed to make it to the warehouse Jason was in but was too late. Jason had been killed in a giant explosion.
Bruce, FURIOUS, went after Joker for vengeance. planning with cold conviction, to murder the Joker. But here's where that asterisk was. Joker at this same time had actually immigrated to Iran and become the Iranian Ambassador to the United Nations. Batman was prepared to make a full assault on the UN headquarters to kill Joker which forced Superman to stop him to avoid making an international incident. Bruce and Clark fought a small bit but Clark was able to finally calm Bruce down, just long enough for Joker to pull a fast one on everyone, and reveal he had hidden a bomb in the UN and was going to blow up everyone there as well, and at the end, it is believed that Joker had himself died in the explosion, denying Bruce his vengeance.
So, when Jason is crying about Bruce not doing anything to avenge his death. Not punishing Joker with the only genuine means of stopping him. Jason is speaking from a perspective of ignorance. He doesn't know what happened. And it's such a complicated set of events that followed, that such a conversation really wouldn't make sense in a high-stakes situation. Especially since in hindsight, it would all look like excuses. By the time Joker had returned, Bruce had been given time to mourn Jason's passing, and while he still HATED Joker for killing Jason, it had happened long enough by now that Bruce was able to resist the urge for vengeance.
My favorite Batman Animated Film!
thank God I'm early enough I didn't even finish the video man boof fire listen to me dude! you need to read nightwings original run. the confrontation in between Nightwing and Blockbuster is all about this moment I've read this comic like three times and I didn't realize it until your video. I had to stop at the 6:21 to tell u. please do a follow-up video talk about Nightwing and Blockbuster and how nightwind chose to handle this character.
Batman does not leave at the end (Of the film.) because he made the choice not to choose, I’m sorry to tell you. He does this because he realized in that moment that the situation Jason had put him in had nothing to do with vengeance on the Joker, and everything to do with how Jason feels about Bruce. This is why he has the Batarang at the ready; he knows Jason wants him, not Joker. It is a brilliant bit of unwritten context, that plays out beautifully and shows just how logical and tactically minded Batman really is. He understood the most psychology of his adversary and turned it against him. Jason has no intentions of killing Joker, he was a child.. Angry at his father. Throwing a hissy fit when he neglects his pain, he raises the gun.
Point being he had no moment where he even considered Jason’s ultimatum. He was buying himself time to defuse a bomb he created.
I like the comic and the film
i love yoru char helmet kreigs commisarial look Boofire. You picked a good artist.
This is a great analysis! I still have to think on it a bit to decide if Batman really was going to let Joker die but it's a very valid take nonetheless.
I think Batman knows that there are situations where killing is necessary but since he also knows he cant do it himself he tolerates someone like Jason because he's the only one who would be able to kill if the situation demands it
Any virtue if made into an absolute will turn you into a monster.
I think of Batman primarily as motivated by trauma. The violent death of his parents led him on a crusade, which he says is against crime but which is really against death. The thought of causing death, through action or inaction, is a trigger, a reminder of the time he couldn't save his parents. He simply can't allow such a thing to happen, because that option is blocked off in his mind. So when he turns away from Jason, I think there are two ways to read that. Either he's making a compromise, as you say, or he doesn't believe Jason will pull the trigger. Batman is a brilliant analytical mind, and I tend to think he knows Jason pretty well (at that point in the story). Whether it's well enough to be sure, I don't know, but I think that makes it an ambiguous ending. Ambiguous enough that I don't dislike it the way I dislike the "I don't have to save you" moment in Batman Begins. There's at least the possibility that Batman has read the situation well enough to be sufficiently convinced that Jason won't pull the trigger (in both senses of the word). I think if Jason had shot the Joker in that moment anyway, Bruce would have been right back in that alley.
The movie gave me the impression that Jason fired a bullet at Batman because he felt that wasn't taking responsible with his inaction. He hates the idea that Batman could close his eyes and keep his hands clean. The ultimatum was from an illogical feeling that he had that Batman valued the Joker's life more than Jason's life.
Batman’s hands wouldn’t be clean because it goes against his moral code lmfao, the movie’s ending was such a cop out and ruined the majority of the film.
@@0neiros. The fact that the criminals keep escaping and never get justice is the real cop out.
Something not mentioned here, or seemingly anywhere, is that in the original fall-out of Death in the Family 1988, Batman DID go with the intention of killing Joker. He literally is only stopped from committing that murder, because Superman stops him, Joker got protection as the official representative of Iran at the UN (they altered it for dumb reasons in the trade paperback) and then Joker escaped. But yeah, while it's not mentioned in Under the Red Hood, Batman was 100% committed to killing the Joker after Jason died. It wasn't until he got time to cool off between Joker appearances that Batman decided against it.
Don't think I didn't notice the ODST OST there 🤘
Easily my favorite animated dc film of all time, it’s a god damn masterpiece imo
I loved Under the Hood. Like you said, it made Bruce have to face his code and the boy he couldn’t save.
Could Batman turning his back on Jason Todd while he was holding joker hostage in the movie version be taken as Batman refusing to play Jason's ultimatum/game?
The video was excellent, the issue at the end is that the movie wasn't him excepting the rule break, it was instead him baiting Jason to an emotional response by refusing to acknowledge the ultimatum. Hence readying the Baterang. Regardless the video was great.
Yeah but it was still ultimately Jason's choice and he shot at Batman. He could have killed Bruce.
I prefer how Batman in the film doesn’t force Jason’s hand or argue against killing Joker. He simply walks away. It doesn’t matter what Batman does, it’s Jason’s choice. Batman already made his when he faced Joe Chill. This is Jason’s turn.
reads title
IS THAT A CHALLENGE I JUST READ