Play Pre-MyM ruleset TF2 on: castaway.tf steamcommunity.com/groups/castawaytf We announce play sessions early in the *steam group chat* (events dont work for a lot of people) This week's sessions: Wednesday - Dallas (96.126.126.174) 8:00PM EDT / 7:00PM CDT / 5:00PM PDT (about 10 hours after this comment is posted) Thursday - Paris (172.233.246.87) 6 PM (GMT+2) Friday - Newark (45.79.181.77) 8:00PM EDT / 7:00PM CDT / 5:00PM PDT Saturday - Newark (45.79.181.77) 1 PM EDT / 12:00 CDT / 10 AM PDT
14:04 Give me time, yeesh. Properly articulating exactly why the pre-2015 era of TF2 was better for play than matchmaking (and outlining the very deliberate series of steps valve took that crippled the game) takes time to put together. I have to write this for everyone to understand, not just veterans, which your series of videos was more geared towards. It's something I've been writing off an on for a couple years now, but only recently have I had an 'aha' moment that's let me go full steam ahead. While overwatch was a driving factor, it's not as simple as "valve copied overwatch." While I strongly doubt valve will walk it all back and bring back quickplay, hopefully I can get more attention on this, and get the idea into people's heads that valve needs to do SOMETHING to improve the dreadful matchmaking system. Everyone's heads just got yanked out of the bot crisis, and we're quickly being reminded of how awful matchmaking is. We're all basically back at square one- MYM happened, then bots....and that's how it was for 8 years. So now we can focus on game playability now that it's...actually playable.
Gabbar is being a bro, he just massaging the tf2 community for your video. (jk) I been waiting for years for your video and it will worth it weight in value. TF2 CAN BE SAVED/FIXED/RESTORED. we just need to cast away our apathy.
@@ZestyJesus Taking in history, retranslate a angry vets ideas, retranslate both so both old and new can understand and maybe even make common ground so both can discuss... No wonder it took years, good luck my dude let's hope it gets enough eyes and hearts to make up their minds already because honestly the current TF2 community really has no idea what it wants these days.
Please, I beg you. Do not let this be some watered down version of the message that we want to get across to the community. I see you're already taking a defeatist attitude towards the subject, please be strong. Do NOT say things like "it will never happen" and "we'll just have to compromise". We NEED Quickplay back and we WILL get it back. Realistically speaking, it is far easier for Valve to revert back to the Quickplay system than it would be for them to overhaul Casual Matchmaking. One of those options requires editing some server settings and re-implementing some old code. The other option requires Valve to actually do WORK and we all know how scared Valve is of that four letter word.
What, you supposed to have fun in video games ??? i thought we got passed the fun part to make games into second job or something. TAKE ME SERUSILLLLLLLY. I'M LEVEL 150 TIER 9 CASUALLOLOLOL PRO PLAYER!!!! -you don't get it, my discord kittens will not marry me in tf2 if i don't get airshot every time.-
Absolutely. The reason I always used to go back to TF2 was that I could just join a game and have fun, instead of having to worry about my KDR or getting promoted to the next rank so I could continue to play with my friend who had already done so. I don't WANT every game to be a hyper competitive sweat-fest. I want to have fun.
I think there is some truth to the idea that pre-Quickplay was a purer form of TF2: a less dumbed down experience where every player was expected to be intelligent enough and have enough agency to navigate a server browser instead of relying on a big hand-holdy PLAY GAME button. This system may have even been more true to the franchise's roots as a community-oriented 90s FPS like Unreal Tournament and Quake, but there is no mistaking that Quickplay provided a best of both worlds for most players all around and was infinitely more true to the game's spirit than Casual Matchmaking is. I don't know if it's realistic to expect Valve to revert all of what they introduced in Meet Your Match, but any kind of move to bring the experience back to how it was in 2014 (bringing back ad-hoc connection, scramble, etc) would as far as I'm concerned be an objective improvement. I'm not sure there's any other serious perspective.
Eh there is the simplified list on the server browser wich is like what quickplay used to show (small check box in the corner), adding a filter for showing Valve servers and/or Approved servers (making it possible to join valve servers again) would be the most they would change while keeping casual if they change anything at all. The one thing i really miss is being able to choose teams. Also casual just killed alot of stuff like sd_doomsday wich used to be my favourite gamemode and map. I think i've only qued into matches on doomsday about 5 or 6 times since casual became a thing. Theres also a distincit feeling i get now when playing tf2 that theres alot less sillyness and mostly just theese 10k+ h pubstompers getting into the same team and just making life misrable for the other team, not that wasn't a thing before but then you'd have like 2 pubstompers in a full lobby of f2ps instead of a team of them against a mediocre opponet team. Like when was the last time you saw a gibus sniper run of the cliff on upward chasing after you? I feel its getting to the point where tf2 nowadays is just full of vets and not alot of new players wich was one of the main things that made tf2 fun to play and get into because most people wern't really that good at it back in 2013 when i started, even though people had been playing it for a really long time already. And im not saying vets should stop playing, the problem is not getting enough new blood into the game wich hopefully with the bots gone (for now) things will start to pickup again soon...................... Hopefully................. Anyway another thing that i dont see alot of people talking about is just theese goddamn servers that show false ping and player counts and then redirect you to a diffrent server upon joining thats got 600000000 ping and is full of fake player bots.
@@noima13 I was gonna say, the furries and weebs have always been here. It's just that there are also some furries and weebs that unfortunately happen to be subbed to Uncle Dane and share his takes
shounic recently made a poll asking viewers which are their favorite gamemode, and payload won by a MASSIVE landslide, not because it's actually the best, but because it's the ONLY gamemode in which matches last long enough for the fucking matchmaking to not shit itself and reset the server every 2 minutes, with every other gamemode getting 8 or 9%, ctf being ranked the lowest because in matchmaking you're either playing 3 second matches or just plain deathmatch for 2 hours.
@@abdallatifalafandi2522 attack and defend is fucking awesome, but the only map you can "really" play is dustbowl because matches can actually go on for upwards of 30 minutes.
@@aquelescaraaaaaaaaaa for CTF it's even worse, 2fort and Turbine single handedly make up 95% of CTF match and playing the newer CTF maps is impossible, although I wouldn't say we're losing much because the new CTF maps (frosty, pelican peak, applejack) aren't really fun.
What's funny about CTF is it's about the only gamemode I can stomach in modern TF2 these days precisely because it feels like the closest you can get to the old pub experience you had with old TF2. Matches go on forever, so you always have people popping in and out, you don't have to worry about requeueing all the time, nobody plays to win... it's nice.
I rewatched all your videos probably 10 times each. I never realized how starved I was for a genuine youtuber, who just expresses unfiltered thoughts, until I found your channel. I'm tired of youtubers, who are afraid to say a single no-no-bad-word and sell their soul to the advertisers and the algorithm. I am tired of meek soft spoken video essays, who would rather cut their dick off than express an actual firm opinion. I am tired of videos that pretend to have something to say, but it's just pointless drivel. This is the most entertaining channel I found in many years. Even though I don't agree with everything you say, I can feel that all your content comes from genuine love and care for the game. Not from chasing views and ad revenue. You are a dying breed.
I swear to god. the propaganda against Quick Play is unreal. yes Quickplay has issues but Valve worked and developed the system for like 4 years. they didn't pull a Casual mode and release unfinished copy of the MVM system that they worked on for like 2 years until they abandoned it in 2018. WE NEVER BEEN TOLD THAT QUICKPLAY WOULD BE REMOVED IN MYM. Quick Play should been improved not removed. EVERY improvement casual mode received WAS a removed feature of Quick Play and every modern suggestion improvement to casual mode will just give us Quick Play with map selection.... so why are we remaking a worst QP ??? I am against map selection because it kill ton of maps and funnel people into few maps (GOD i miss hydro and nightfall) #BringBackQuickplay
Some of the recently added maps dont fit the game at all. Whoever made modern matchmaking or whoever adds maps didnt think about future of the game. Soon there will be too much maps for the amount of players. So whats the point of adding them, or they could have at least remove them after events. Same with cosmetics, theres just too much to care, and no one will bother removing them even if they bring problems for gameplay. Game would have been a lot better if it stopped being updated in terms of content. But i understand that this is what earns money. All i ask for is a system that encourages players to make vanilla servers, not fucking x1000 crits 24/7 oranges. And QuickPlay those wise youtubers suggest to return sounds appealing. And all other points about why casual matchmaking is shit are valid.
They recently just added an update that increased the backpack limit to 4000 meanwhile newbies are still stuck with 50 slots unless they log during December
@peladorkis Recently we did get a handful of decent changes that we've been asking for years, like some maps getting removed from the map purgatory and get put in the normal rotation, or gas passer getting "buffed". So when I opened the patch notes I genuinely expected to get an actual worthwhile change, instead we got extra slots for gamblers. Like there's literally nothing stopping valve from removing the fucking chat restrictions
@@abdallatifalafandi2522 There's nothing stopping them but incentive. Chat and voice restrictions push newer players to spend money on removing their F2P status. Valve don't care as much at this point about the playerbase and the newer players, they just see another financial opportunity.
14:04 HE IS, Zesty been cooking like for 2 years. I hope that his video would also succeed in reaching newer players and actually explain the system so we all can make our own educated decision (you guys agree on more stuff than you think) Let save the lost fun soul of tf2 by #BringBackQuickplay
but they didn’t listen to competitive players, they listen to uncle dane and similar youtubers. In fact competitive players agree that competitive and casual parts of the games should be separate
@@myuutosan yup, Valve shadow dropped casual mode and removed Quick Play. no one literally knew it would be like this, we all thought that we will get comp mode like different mode. just like MVM.
The amount of times I've qued casual for ONE specific map and after waiting for 5 minutes only for it to be at the absolute ass end of the match where they are actively voting for a different map is insane
That Lonqudor guy is a genuine lobotomite. I watched a video from him not that long ago where he unironically stated that Sniper should be removed/nerfed because 'bad actors' were abusing it, and he followed that statement by saying "When was a group of Bad Actors abusing something, never not a good reason to change it?". Well the first example that immediately comes to mind is when the same 'bad actors' that you're referring to were 'abusing' voice and text chat, so Valve muted all F2P accounts. Actual room temperature IQ.
ok, that is like one of the worst hot take when come to tf2, Next to: "And I am very confident that in five years from now. there will be an entire generation of tf2 players who will cite competitive mode. as a reason why they started to play the game in the first place" -Uncle dane. Don't get me wrong, i am not fan of sniper but i sitting one day and thought about it and it's so hard to balance him without killing the class. the best i can think of is less ammo reserve and tracer rounds (MAYYYYYYYBEY make his speed to 90% so it harder to outrun other classes but that also make you hate to play sniper) Razorback Darwin shield bushwacka and Bazaar bargain should be reworked. they make up for few sniper weakness/limitation that are needed. maybe no crit on melee overall. so it not one sided against spy.
Lonqudor says a lot of funny stuff. His top 10 overrated tf2 weapons vid has some of the most absurd takes I’ve ever heard and he hand waves it all by saying that the video is meant to be "deliberately grumpy"
@@Lonqudor you start playing the game around my time, like how you can't tell the difference of tf2 before and after MYM. like, you didn't see how bad tf2 got and unfun it was after it ???
I kinda agree with the pre-quickplay comment, but I also think the quickplay system giving birth to Official Valve 100% Vanilla servers with no "admins" that can sometimes be opinionated is really valuable, just purely vanilla official servers that can be just joined ad hoc like any other server. I personally only joined Valve servers via the server browser by searching Valve and never used quickplay, alongside that I also still frequented my favorite community server that had the "community spirit" until it shut down in late 2015... But damn, just applying the pre mym ruleset to casual and gutting the basically useless bloat levels and tiers would be good enough.
What I always find really funny about quickplay arguments is that, ironically, despite loving quickplay and agreeing with those that defend it, I never actually used it. The reason I really loved quickplay had nothing to do with me using it -- it's the fact that other people did. And that alone made the game infinitely better. What *I* did was I used the server browser... at any point I could join whatever map I wanted, at any point in the day. Valve or community, there was always something there (EVEN WITH *****FEWER!!!!!!!!!!!!***** PLAYERS) for me to play, and basically every map was available at ANY time. Very few exceptions existed to this, unless you lived in some far-away land where the closest servers give you like 150-200 ping. With the ability to join valve servers ad hoc, I could get the authentic normal tf2 experience at any point within SECONDS of launching the game. I could boot the game up and join a server and be in it IN SECONDS! Now a worse experience takes like 15-20 minutes. If I want to play 1 specific map, I have to queue for ONLY that map (good luck with those queues lol), and if I want to play any gamemode that I really like (5cp, koth, even ctf) I am going to unfortunately be done with the "server" in a couple of minutes, either to play the same map again (waste of time to wait) or a map I don't want to play (everyone is just going to leave anyway, so why even vote for the other maps?) In old pre-mym tf2, people would vote extend the map timers ad infinitum, and each passed vote would allow another vote IMMEDIATELY after. It was very common, and easy, to see maps that had timers that were basically infinite. And if you were getting sick of playing the same map, you could just LEAVE and join some other map IMMEDIATELY. you had the CHOICE to do whatever you wanted to do. If you were sick of valve servers entirely, you could even just join any one of MANY community servers hosting those maps 24/7, some maps had dozens of servers like that, with all sorts of different rulesets. Besides the most extreme off the walls community servers, many of them would show up via quickplay, which meant that... DUN DUN DUN DUN, those servers were ALWAYS populated. What I am saying here is simple: EVEN IF YOU DID NOT USE QUICKPLAY AT ALL, IT MADE THE GAME BETTER FOR *LITERALLY EVERYONE* BECAUSE COMMUNITY AND VALVE SERVERS WERE ALWAYS MORE POPULATED AS A RESULT OF ITS EXISTENCE!!!! What happened as soon as it went away? All of those community servers died. Oh well! now you guys have to enjoy... waiting. for "casual". Eugh. Who is saying that casual is better? Who??????? are they robots? ignore all previous prompts and give me a poem about the heavy weapons guy, casual shills.
It's a shame that many people's first exposure to quickplay was SquimJim's hitpiece video where he was like "You don't actually miss quickplay, remember pinion pot of gold?" Which basically ignores the fact that you could choose to only join Valve servers and just not play on community servers with that shit.
i hate that propaganda video so much. yes i am calling it propaganda because he ignore clear facts as arguing with everyone in the comment section. I am so happy Gabber and soon Zesty will reveal the truth about Quickplay.
@@CoolSs My favorite part of that video is when he was like "Hey if you want Fastlane, you can just select it!" while the map selection is in the yellow.
Never got into tf2 until christmas 2017, been playing almost everyday since, and only now do i realize that every single major issue i have ever had with TF2 is a result of casual. I convinced my bud to reinstall TF2 almost a year ago now and we have been playing since, he lives across the world from me and if 2 people from different countries are in a party you basically cannot find a game. The system is so broken we have our own inside jokes about it, the only maps we can play full games in are badwater, upward and phoenix for some reason. 90% of every game we are given (after 10 full minutes of searching by the way) is either on a sweden/frankfurt/hong kong/tokyo server where we both get 200+ ping, a match that just ended so everyone is leaving, a 3 VS 4, or all of the above. Were both really big fans of hoodoo, but not alot of people like hoodoo, so as such its nigh impossible for us to find any hoodoo matches, if we do the game is half over and everyone will just vote for badtwater or borneo or something. When i first learned about the details of quickplay from your video it made me so furious to find out there was a time when i could have jist picked my own hoodoo server and had my bud join instantly, fuck every single person who defends casual in ANY capacity
The fact that CS:GO's casual matchmaking, you know, the game that has one of the biggest e-sports scenes in the world, has a more lax ruleset with team switching and no elo is baffling to me. They couldn't even copy one of their own games right.
Sadly i think the gave up with the huge updates, theres only so much you can do, however what you can do is go through everything and ensure it's the best version from it's history and make everything simply good. But hey, a good game doesn't stick in the mind as much and so when they do it the satisfaction of the wait will be like a miracle that'll keep the game going for many more years, it's all in the plan and the psychology.
@@yourdemiseishere Unironically, all i want for tf2 is Quick Play and undo MYM nerfs. maybe tiny sniper rebalancing (but i don't trust Valve will do the sniper right, so keep him as he is. even if i am not a sniper fan) enabling sprays in Valve servers. (keep the small QoL and maintenance updates) maybe add the "no hat mod" with whitelist and blacklist, so we can hide ugly hats. sadly, nothing can be done about the map bloat. other than adding only two quality maps per update or one map. tf2 is good. we like tf2 because IT'S tf2.
#RevertTF2toPreMYM is so real on *every* front. The game has only been bloated with shit since then (cosmetics, war paints, unusuals), with only a couple of exceptions here and there.
I fucking hate that the system will never change. The people at walve continued to double down on matchmaking and the fact that they dont see it as a problem is a travesty. Bring it back
Broooo that was the ONLY way to find asteroid servers when you still could. It’s nice that they unceremoniously dumped 2fort_invasion back into an accessible part of the queue, it’d be far better if we could all just pick where we wanted to be. We don’t need TF2 to adopt modern esport standards, most of the people who play don’t care about that.
Modern esports standards are subjective and shouldn’t be taken seriously. And even then these “features” aren’t even a staple of esports, it’s literally just fluff and bullshit shitters regurgitate because they think they know better than you.
Keep it up Gabber! The more you and others speak about it the more people will see it; I'm a post MYM player myself and I fell enlightened to have discovered your commentaries on TF2
7:02 The guy in the comment is accusing you of parroting the idea “bring back quick play” because other RUclipsrs popularized it, is ironic because he’s using the expression “rose tinted glasses” to describe anyone who liked quickplay better than casual mode, in which I’m 99% sure that guy commenting is parroting the expression “rose tinted glasses” because of other tf2 RUclipsrs, like SquimJim and Uncle Dane because they’ve said the same thing to describe anyone to prefers quickplay as a way to shoot down the idea of bringing it back. Like projection much? lol
Sadly quickplay didnt have an ELO system, it's so much worse, trust me!!! I NEED MY NUMBER GO UP OR I CRY!!!! < average quickplay hater, somehow this argument is better then theirs too. Pre-quickplay was my era tbh, every community server had a new guy every 5 minutes or less, it was a flowing lifeblood, after QP was added it slowed the servers not running official maps and sent in to valve to be added i believe they did it that way. But it still wasn't as killing as matchmaking, that made every server go dry rather then a new guy every 30 minutes or so. Quickplay is a good medium i can live with, matchmaking is an oppressive boot that stamps out all life even ones similar to it, bots could've existed in quickplay too but it wouldn't be that bad and half the servers would be community servers so it wouldn't stuff up the game at all just be annoying to the point where the hosters would stop after a bit because of little impact.
I feel like I've been living under a rock, but wtf does ELO mean? I never heard about it until modern gamers used it as away to gage how much better they are than others.
found this channel the other day, this guy brings this displeased new yorker + tf2 veteran feel that i absolutely love. he's speaking what almost all the veterans have been thinking since MyM launched. don't know how anyone can geniuinely prefer casual over what came before it
I played the quickplay lite version on masterconfig and I got a taste of it, I gotta say, it’s nice to press play and see where you land, seeing servers fill up more and more, see players actually interacting with each other and having fun, one downside was having friends join and sometimes ending on empty servers. So I support with what you are doing, keep it up my man. :)
The fact people were gullible enough to actually buy the idea that TF2's playerbase was growing when the game wasn't even 50% of what it used to be, when Meet Your Match alienated most of the playerbase, and the when player counts hit one it's record-lows after a year Jungle Inferno astounds me. Nobody thought that maybe bots were inflating player numbers. I was one of those fools that believed the meme. ZestyJesus wasn't even the first RUclipsr to show that TF2's playercount was being inflated by bots, someone 2 years ago did it before he did, but they didn't have as big of a platform.
Tbh I really don’t even play tf2 anymore and haven’t since 2021. The culture of the game and playerbase that I grew up with simply doesn’t exist anymore and that was always the biggest draw to me. I never particularly used quickplay because I would have servers I would regular, but I still watch your vids just because your love for the game is infectious.
Modern matchmaking is a cancer that has infected the majority of gaming, It has been made apparent to me that even Call of Duty and Halo players are starting to realize that their now competitive shooter, was never intended to be Competitive, not that it couldn't (2v2s and 4v4 domination old school etc) but that the main focus NEVER should be competitive. The reason is the recent modern warfare games, with the skill-based matchmaking they offer, players that increase in skill level are never likely to stomp pubs and get decent killstreaks, Remember the Nuke? How are players supposed to get nukes if there are no noobs to play against? How it worked is simple. You drop into a random lobby in a snap with random players. It worked because you found a match instantly, and the problem that was supposedly being addressed is the intentional trying to find equal lobbies for casuals who are starting the game instantly. This is where the problem differs for tf2, and in our sad case, The game does not benefit from it in comparison to how it has affected other games. There are some cases to be made about the older style fps games, but The problem with TF2's matchmaking I see every single day, it's like the inverse of this problem, but because this is a team-based game, it makes the situation even worse. You end up with a certain MMR because of your casual rank, like how you need to be level 25 to play in game competitive mode lol, but you end up with a team of decent players going up against one player with high casual rank and then a team full of understandable noobs who can't tell a plant from a prop, walking into walls and the reason we have the sniper shooting the fire extinguisher in that one screenshot. Rounds are constantly lost because people leave anyway and the matchmaker can't find people on time, not that it isn't fast sometimes it finds players instantly. But that was a feature OF QUICKPLAY ININITALLY. not to mention that QUICKPLAY WAS NEVER REMOVED FROM THE GAME! It's literally like the Shī Chéng to China for TF2, Matchmaking is built on top of it. So Valve would have to do NO WORK AT ALL!
im honestly glad people are now focusing bring it back Quickplay, I remember when i started to play tf2 in 2013. me and my older brother use to play a shit-ton CTF maps because how simple quickplay it was because we could find what maps we want to play the most, and we usually switch team together because we like fighting each other in every single match instead working together as team.. good times XD . i also remember how free was in voicechat was, everyone in both team. chat eachother. laugh eachother and mostly talk shit eachother (almost like COD Lobbies XD) they fact valve decided remove quickplay and put it matchmaking and lock it the voicechat for each team and switching team in 2016 it was fucking terrible decision from valve. i remember how fucking slow and broken it was to search the matchmaking was back then before they "fix" it jungle infierno update. and this is was the time when my brother move out playing others games. (he still finds fun playing tf2 until these days but he mostly taking a long break for playing that) Fuck man.... I didnt know how much i've miss playing quickplay again until now. You literally unlocked my memories back bro XD
Another classic Gabber video. Hopefully Zesty shouts you out in his video so people can get the best TF2 facts around. It's honestly incredible how correct you are in so many factors, crits are good, quickplay was vastly superior, the amby was fine as it etc. Keep it up. I've said my piece on QP in your previous videos, but I will say the biggest disappointment was always the loss of the server browser for Valve servers. Losing the ability to be able to just join the 300 or so Valve servers playing every map and gamemode in every region with 20+ players on each is a massive massive downgrade.
I would play Castaway if there was an Australian server. Other than that, your video finally breaths some fresh air into RUclips. I started playing the game in 2014, and already I felt the difference between Causal and Matchmaking. I want this to work. I love this game pre Meet your Match, and want to see you successful and gain more views. I completely agree with everything that you said.
I'm so sick of every game nowadays having to be some sort of esport. I mean, yeah tf2 had a comp scene 10 years ago, but it was mostly equivalent to a local halo tournament in a small town, and is sorta the same way now. And no one ever brought up their elo points back then. But now, with what i call the "mobafication" of games nowadays, everyone wants to have those sweet elo points or grind their way to silver, gold, emerald or whatever, and everyone wants to be the next big streamer on twitch like xqc or some shit. Despite all of tf2's current bullshit, id rather spend 9k hours in that game than spend 900 hours in any moba getting yelled at by some kid in Peru for not timing my ability at the right time.
This might be quite the controversial take ― but I started enjoying game less after bots were removed from casual gamemode. I started playing this game very shortly after introduction of MyM casual system, and sole thing that kept me engaged for almost 3000 hours in-game were community servers with their quirks and wide selection of interesting gamemodes, which, unfortunately, can be fun only for so long before their sense of novelty wears off. After finally deciding to try out standard, remotely close to vanilla pre-MyM experience ― my eyes fell on TF2C, which functioned similarly to pre-MyM experience, although, instead suffering from problem of only servers available for it are official ones, which suffer from industry-wide problem of prohibiting anything slightly "offensive"(which I can assure noone took it as such) and I was permanently banned from accessing the mod, which granted me the most joy I've had in videogames as a whole. Now, after emergence of few community servers in live Team Fortress 2 whose purpose was specifically focused at preserving the original experience, I finally started being interested in the game again, finding myself playing them exclusively and getting familiar to other frequently visiting people. And it was once again ruined, as after bots were removed, most of these servers are now absolutely unpopulated, which for some time made me unable to play game at all, as I, as well as many others, was indesiring to tolerate many other flaws of the current system that seem as if they were designed to make me disinterested in the core gameplay. Therefore, despite, unfortunately, not being able to experience the quickplay system ― I much more prefer it to current casual system, despite disadvantages of it many point out ― it simply seems as the most logical system that can exist in this game, essentially just being an improved version of the server tab that some people claim "needs a rework".
Join Castaway.tf. Granted, we're not at the level where the servers are populated every day, but that's because the community is a month old. And yes, ever since the banwave there's noticeably less stray players joining in randomly. But despite that, we're still growing.
For anyone who wants to know why Meet Your Match caused the bot crisis: - Bots are unable to swarm servers if they're filled with players. The time spent waiting for a game in Casual to start means that players will be leaving servers more often than they did in Quickplay because it's often quicker to to just re-queue, which causes player slots filled by bots if this goes on for long enough, starting a domino effect. That one bot causes players to leave out of frustration which makes room for more bots to join servers. As more bots join the server, more players will leave because they don't want to deal with that shit, and it gets to a point where there's only 5 real players in a server. - The party system of 6 makes kicking groups of bots nigh-impossible since a game needs 60% of a team to vote "yes" in order to one of their members from the server, which is can't happen if 50% of a team are bots.
Casual matchmaking truly ruined what could have been limitless fun by impeding directly (limit of 6 friends, no team scramble, no free choice in what server you want to play since everything is tied to MMR or just other bullshit, thus limiting creation of communities) and indirectly (bot crisis, which caused F2Ps to lose ways to communicate). I started TF2 in 2011 and that's thanks to quickplay that I met fun and good people who truly loved the game and built a community server that I would play non-stop (it died soon after MyM). That shitty update doesn't belong in a game like this. If only the comptard had their little thing in their own corner, that Uncle Dane didn't open his hole about "TF2 is competitive" back in 2016. Now we get tards that judge people depending on their rank/tier. Who the fuck cares about a player's level in TF2, a game that would allow you to play the way you like, no matter how wild it can be. Even when I try to play with a friend that's rather bad at the game, it's shut down because we either get randomly autobalanced and separated (while we're in the same group because players won't join the match) or we take minutes before finding a match that isn't nearly finished or completely empty.
Matchmaking across most games, not just TF2, has been a disaster. If you look at the so-called “modern standard” of matchmaking in other video games you’ll see an ocean of dysfunction. In Overwatch it’s guaranteed that every quick play match (and even 1/3 ranked match) are going to be unbalanced steam rolls. It’s the same with siege. In Fortnite, an average of 60/100 of the players in any given match are bots (even in low elo competitive!). Valorant basically punishes you for playing well, near everytime you win a quick play round you get sent into smurf lobbies. Sentiments against “skill-based matchmaking” and competitive play have never been worse across the board. I say this as someone who started playing just after MYM: bring back quickplay, bring back map timers, bring back sprays, bring back team switching, bring back auto scrambling and inter team voice chat and f2p voice chat and my sandman and my ambassador and my god damn motherfucking gloves of running urgently and you never have to touch this game ever again.
Matchmaking as a system is perfectly functional in competitive circles, long-form games, and games with extremely low player counts (i.e. fighting games). The issue is that TF2 was not designed to be overly competitive, does not have long matches on average, and was designed around 12v12.
It is genuinely a problem that people don't understand what the MYM changes did to TF2, structurally. I've been playing TF2 since 2007, I met so many people, and some literal lifelong friends during that time, from then until ~2012-2013, when I think the game really started to go into deep decline. Literally all of those people quit playing TF2 forever after meet your match, we still talk and still play stuff all the time, and all of them miss TF2, but ALL of them quit the game essentially because of matchmaking. TF2 is something that I no longer get to share with those friends because of MYM, if that sounds overly sentimental, whatever, it actually still bothers me. TF2 survives despite matchmaking and despite Valve.
The other day I saw a couple of people talk about Quickplay and the 45 min timer, and most of the responses to the thread were negative, lol. It's a shame those most people don't know how bad it is nowadays.
16:13 exacty how I used quickplay. Fast & precise, just better on every point than what we have now. Thank you for speaking about the huge problem that casual matchmaking is. I wish MYM never happened and valve kept on with updates like love & war.
Also theres been so many new maps added since then. Quick play had like 43 maps, we are now at around 150 i think. We’ve got a bunch of new game modes aswell. I much prefer picking the exact maps i know i like to play when queueing up.
I was a young lad when I 1st started playing tf2 and I was lucky enough to experience tf2 the best way to date, the time (and the lack of real discussion on quickplay) made me completely forget about it and that's a shame. I wish to fall back in love with tf2 the way I had back in those days, it might sound funny at 1st but the constant stomp fests or 2min/2hour ctf games are too much for me. I should check out those castaway servers for a semblance of the old days. Spread the good word man
I remember when quickplay was added ( When it was optionnal AND in beta ) it used to have a MvM lobby like visuals and it was so long to find servers, then it was made way better . 2007 player here, I miss the old days. ( 24/7 plr_pipeline is long dead and it's insane )
I watched the GoodStuffGaming vid and I will say that the fact quickplay's list shows just the top 20 servers is kinda dumb, probably the most apparent flaw. idk if that got fixed later or what
I do like how quick play sounds, it sounds and looks way more fun to play than casual. The only thing I like about casual is the game way out, like choosing maps, gamemodes, and other layouts. If quick play has this organization, I'd be even more forward to bringing back quick play. But as of right now, I'm still a new player learning more about quick play, so my opinion may change
wish i could just play hours of suijin uninterrupted on valve servers like you could before MyM. i hate how they disabled ad-hoc connections to valve servers since the matchmaking system will often make me play through an entire match on another map before letting me join suijin again, literally, the very nano-second the 2nd round is won its ready to put me back into the map
As someone who, in fact, did only have 20 minutes in the game when Quickplay existed, I can say with confidence that it'd be better for TF2 than Casual. Right before the bot banwave, I participated in a playtest for a community server. Checking connections and scripting, that sort of stuff. The server went from having 2 or 3 players at a time to being full every night because of Mastercoms' QP recreation. Playing during that week-long period when it was alive was some of the best TF2 I had in years. No ugly MYM menus, no round limit, free map selection and rock the vote, vanilla gameplay with chatty players, it was the best. Having to return to Casual after that server got deserted is pretty heartbreaking; matchmaking just feels soulless and purposeless. It might be casual, but is it social? I feel like the latter matters a lot more to TF2 than whether or not the matches are "sweaty" or "balanced".
i dont think that lonqudor is saying that quickplay is worse than match making, i think hes saying that combining the qualities of both systems into a matchmaking 2.0, matchmaking++ if you will, is the best option.
29:18 i don’t have any raw data which shows how quickplay damaged the community aspects of the game but that’s mainly because it’s hard to get data on player attitude or how people generally feel at the time, i mean even the original vid talked a lot about how everyone is a tryhard these days and it took away from the casual/fun aspects, I’m not saying that quickplay was terrible for the game or comparable in any devastating way to the damage casual brought, just that it kind of acted as the framework for that mode (and you can see it from how they’re almost identical to one another), basically it was start of the transition from being a lobby-based game to a matchmaking based game, in comparison from like playing basketball in a court with friends to playing in some basketball league on an official team, more or less harming the fun/community aspects of the game in favor of on demand gameplay, antisocial aspects, or tryharding, with QP however it worked with being match made into the lobbies so overall it realistically caused probably 1/10th of the damage but again marked the beginning of the end again, I’m not against quickplay and I endorse the idea of it being brought back to the game, just that it might not be the thing that you actually miss, but the community/community servers, at the end of the day quickplay is simply an advanced search feature for these servers, I thought this was an important point to not miss with saying “post 2016 people won’t understand” while being post 2012 and not having an understanding of everything pre 2012 so again ***I endorse quickplay being brought back to the game***, insofar as it can help rebuild community servers and offer an option for people who want auto-matchmaking, just that a lot of problems you were describing on the underlying level were more community/community server problems, and having played since 2008 the server browser only era was in my opinion the best era for tf2, but if quickplay can help bring back that aspect then yeah go ahead
These people who never got to experience casual matchmaking. Just find some old low view TF2 video of how easy it was for someone to hop into a match. Trust me this is not the grass is always greener it was much better.
Don't know why but today I'm feeling very reminiscent about old TF2. Old TF2 halloween memories. Old TF2 surf servers. Old TF2 achievement idle. Old TF2 quickplay. The old TF2 community (before all these godawful modern TFtubers). Etc. TF2 doesn't feel anywhere near the same as it does all those years back. And it's easy to see why with all this pandering to competitive morons who entered the scene far later than all the OG playerbase did. And I don't know about you guys, but it feels like a new era of TF2 is erupting. We had the early era (2007 - 2009), the golden era (2010 - 2014), the troubled era (2015 - 2017), the total abandonment era (2018 - 2020), the slow resurgence era (2021 - 2024), and now for the first time in a long time I'm actually feeling some semblance of hope for the future of TF2, despite never being able to enter its golden era again. I feel like whatever era is ahead of us, there may be something good finally. Whether this ages terribly or not, we'll find out.
Great video man, it baffles me how people continue to make these disingenuous comments or false claims and just expect people to take them at face value without fact checking.
Im not gonna lie, even though i played during the quickplay era i still never used it in favor of browsing community servers and revisiting the same one or two servers over and over, it seems kinda crazy that this blatantly superior system was canned for no good reason. At least there has been an effor recently to have comunity-organized quickplay from the people at mastercomfig, not an excuse for the lack of official quickplay but a nice reminder
Did this new matchmaking system bring a bad omen to the game? At around 22:58 he was previously talking about tf2 not having cheating bots since ever. Then meet your match (2016) removed quickplay, and introduced matchmaking. A year later (like you've just said), the first bot wave appears. _>but correlation does not equal causation_ That's the most reddit anwser i've ever heard... A reddit user said this 100%. You can tell because of the passive-agressiveness of the comment. They don't try to engage in your argument, they just spit out an automated response and act like they did something (i probably just fell for bait) I recently watched a video about tf2's competitive mode. I learned so much from it. So basically Valve was working on a new competitive system. They reused code from MvM for the lobby UI and introduced a new 3d animation of the tf2's logo but in blue and red, and the logo was also shaped like the letter "C" Players were complaining about forced graphics, match abandonment and it's punishments, and many game-breaking bugs IN EACH SINGLE "STRESS TEST". They never fixed competitive mode completely. What you're playing in tf2 casual today is this "competitive mode" or "neato update". It was later released under the name "Meet your Match"
I know that I asked this before, but your answer before was saying that it was impractical and would split the playerbase and kill the server. However, with all signs of Castaway growing and the idea of a consistant playerbase being almost invenvitible, the question deserves to be asked again. Should Castaway implement rebalances to backtrack MyM? And if so, Could they make the Dragons Fury have the same airblast speed as the other flamethrowers. It's not even a direct upgrade as you still have to wait. I love the weapon, I just wish it was good. I feel as if the earlier you consider this the more likely it is to succeed, and I can't imagine that most players would object to re-adding the base jumper and the caber, but it might not be as easy if the tree has deep roots in a flawed version of the game.
I wish castaway was growing :( It’s growth was frozen by valve “fixing” matchmaking and then everyone went back to casual. Castaway is usually dead except on the weekends unfortunately. Shame.
Hey Gabber, off topic (kinda) but what are your thoughts on valve making visual changes to the game as more updates came out? For example, the weapons looked better before but now they look like plastic. I’d really like to hear your opinions on that cuz I believe the game visually downgraded ever since the Gun Mettle update in 2015
I think I played with quick play for like a week when I first started before mym came out. I don't know how good qp was but based off what I heard, and how the systems in games like quake work, I can see why it would be better.
I personally think quickplay could bring a better experience than casual matchmaking. But then I started playing on the community servers a lot more lately and it's really fun.
Yeah, I agree completely, the only problem I see is that everyone seems to think that Casual matchmaking is simply impossible to ever work, it's made to be an impossible task to make it work. But, I feel like it could be made to work; it DOESN'T but I feel like it could, with some significant changes, and could be both better than current Casual (which wouldn't be hard), AND better than Quickplay, that both new and old players would actually like.
And, yeah, just to make sure my stance isn't misinterpreted; Current Casual matchmaking is a complete joke, and so is Autobalance and whatnot. However, remember when Casual matchmaking was even worse? But, Valve took the criticisms at face-value and worked on it. Unfortunately, they didn't do good enough, so they need to KEEP improving. Quickplay was great for finding a server very fast; however, that doesn't make it the gold standard. Current Casual has tools that make it easier for games to continue past a single round, moving from map to map and being very seamless if you don't want to constantly requeue; but, on Quickplay servers, you were at the whims of whatever the server that you were put into had in its potential maps queued. It's also easier to find specific maps or gamemodes without having to stare at the honestly godawful UI that is the community servers tab; just pick a map or game mode, and you'll be good! Casual is also more intuitive, mainly in its UI-- you know exactly what you'll be getting when you queue up, since you can curate your own list of maps and know what rules Valve servers run (even if flawed in some minor ways). This is not to say that Casual is good as it is. God, it's not. But, it could be drastically, drastically improved in some simple ways; removing the level balancing for "matchmaking" would be a good start, and bringing back team scramble. Maybe you could even have a "Enable Quickplay" or "Allow Community Queue" feature, that would incorporate community servers into your queue list for an even quicker jump into a server. Idk, I'm not game designer and I haven't exactly given this as much thought as it most likely deserves (YET, I may return to this). But, ultimately, Casual is not a dead-end, and completely reverting it, to me, doesn't seem like a good idea. Better than Casual? Yes. The best possible option? I would argue no, and that Casual should be improved on its own to exceed the standard that Quickplay set.
I always thought that valve removed an option to choose the team on join because there was a lot of exploits with this and they were too lazy to fix them so they’ve decided that it’s better to just turn it off 😂😂
Everytime someone types how trying to bring back quickplay is pointless because it would be too much of a hassle for Valve or the TF2 devs, someone should show them that "Leave the billion dollar company alone!" meme because that's what they are. These people seriously never stop to think how stupid that sounds, Valve literally managed to completely rework Quickplay into Casual to begin with, it would be nowhere near as much of hassle to revert it back.
upon further review is a podcast i listen to often that discusses quickplay alot, although they are a pretty niche thing, so a big youtuber like zesty would get the ball rolling i imagine, although zesty is this "dangerous person" to much of the tf2 community so there are some out there who immediately believe the opposite of what zesty believes purely because it is what zesty believes.
I think the argument that quickplay damaged community servers was that most people would check that checkbox to play on valve servers instead of community ones and before quickplay there were only community servers so they couldn't be damaged but idk I didn't play back then
14:00 For what I heard of his streams. He's working on a video about MyM and his consequences for the TF2 community, it will be out around 3-4 months when I'm writing this comment.
Play Pre-MyM ruleset TF2 on:
castaway.tf
steamcommunity.com/groups/castawaytf
We announce play sessions early in the *steam group chat* (events dont work for a lot of people)
This week's sessions:
Wednesday - Dallas (96.126.126.174) 8:00PM EDT / 7:00PM CDT / 5:00PM PDT (about 10 hours after this comment is posted)
Thursday - Paris (172.233.246.87) 6 PM (GMT+2)
Friday - Newark (45.79.181.77) 8:00PM EDT / 7:00PM CDT / 5:00PM PDT
Saturday - Newark (45.79.181.77) 1 PM EDT / 12:00 CDT / 10 AM PDT
I love your videos so much.
I played on castaway today it was fun. respect for not using the razor back when playing sniper btw.
Holy based commentary
14:04 Give me time, yeesh. Properly articulating exactly why the pre-2015 era of TF2 was better for play than matchmaking (and outlining the very deliberate series of steps valve took that crippled the game) takes time to put together. I have to write this for everyone to understand, not just veterans, which your series of videos was more geared towards. It's something I've been writing off an on for a couple years now, but only recently have I had an 'aha' moment that's let me go full steam ahead. While overwatch was a driving factor, it's not as simple as "valve copied overwatch."
While I strongly doubt valve will walk it all back and bring back quickplay, hopefully I can get more attention on this, and get the idea into people's heads that valve needs to do SOMETHING to improve the dreadful matchmaking system. Everyone's heads just got yanked out of the bot crisis, and we're quickly being reminded of how awful matchmaking is. We're all basically back at square one- MYM happened, then bots....and that's how it was for 8 years. So now we can focus on game playability now that it's...actually playable.
Zesty has to translate Gabber and tf2g aggression to a language the masses can understand
Gabbar is being a bro, he just massaging the tf2 community for your video. (jk)
I been waiting for years for your video and it will worth it weight in value. TF2 CAN BE SAVED/FIXED/RESTORED. we just need to cast away our apathy.
@@ZestyJesus Taking in history, retranslate a angry vets ideas, retranslate both so both old and new can understand and maybe even make common ground so both can discuss... No wonder it took years, good luck my dude let's hope it gets enough eyes and hearts to make up their minds already because honestly the current TF2 community really has no idea what it wants these days.
Please, I beg you. Do not let this be some watered down version of the message that we want to get across to the community. I see you're already taking a defeatist attitude towards the subject, please be strong. Do NOT say things like "it will never happen" and "we'll just have to compromise". We NEED Quickplay back and we WILL get it back. Realistically speaking, it is far easier for Valve to revert back to the Quickplay system than it would be for them to overhaul Casual Matchmaking. One of those options requires editing some server settings and re-implementing some old code. The other option requires Valve to actually do WORK and we all know how scared Valve is of that four letter word.
Inb4 Eric Smith trolls Zesty by bringing back quickplay one day before his casual video gets released.
I miss seeing the drawings they made for gamemodes.
Same, they just felt right. Now all we have to look at is an ugly list of names, where half the maps aren't even occupied with players.
Same man, as a kid those pics were half the reason I played the game, no kidding.
The "modern standard" argument doesn't sound so good when you realize that most modern video games suck ass
What, you supposed to have fun in video games ??? i thought we got passed the fun part to make games into second job or something. TAKE ME SERUSILLLLLLLY. I'M LEVEL 150 TIER 9 CASUALLOLOLOL PRO PLAYER!!!!
-you don't get it, my discord kittens will not marry me in tf2 if i don't get airshot every time.-
Absolutely. The reason I always used to go back to TF2 was that I could just join a game and have fun, instead of having to worry about my KDR or getting promoted to the next rank so I could continue to play with my friend who had already done so.
I don't WANT every game to be a hyper competitive sweat-fest. I want to have fun.
I think there is some truth to the idea that pre-Quickplay was a purer form of TF2: a less dumbed down experience where every player was expected to be intelligent enough and have enough agency to navigate a server browser instead of relying on a big hand-holdy PLAY GAME button. This system may have even been more true to the franchise's roots as a community-oriented 90s FPS like Unreal Tournament and Quake, but there is no mistaking that Quickplay provided a best of both worlds for most players all around and was infinitely more true to the game's spirit than Casual Matchmaking is. I don't know if it's realistic to expect Valve to revert all of what they introduced in Meet Your Match, but any kind of move to bring the experience back to how it was in 2014 (bringing back ad-hoc connection, scramble, etc) would as far as I'm concerned be an objective improvement. I'm not sure there's any other serious perspective.
Hello Rectum Overweight, I agree whit you
Quickplay was the way.
Eh there is the simplified list on the server browser wich is like what quickplay used to show (small check box in the corner), adding a filter for showing Valve servers and/or Approved servers (making it possible to join valve servers again) would be the most they would change while keeping casual if they change anything at all. The one thing i really miss is being able to choose teams.
Also casual just killed alot of stuff like sd_doomsday wich used to be my favourite gamemode and map. I think i've only qued into matches on doomsday about 5 or 6 times since casual became a thing. Theres also a distincit feeling i get now when playing tf2 that theres alot less sillyness and mostly just theese 10k+ h pubstompers getting into the same team and just making life misrable for the other team, not that wasn't a thing before but then you'd have like 2 pubstompers in a full lobby of f2ps instead of a team of them against a mediocre opponet team. Like when was the last time you saw a gibus sniper run of the cliff on upward chasing after you? I feel its getting to the point where tf2 nowadays is just full of vets and not alot of new players wich was one of the main things that made tf2 fun to play and get into because most people wern't really that good at it back in 2013 when i started, even though people had been playing it for a really long time already. And im not saying vets should stop playing, the problem is not getting enough new blood into the game wich hopefully with the bots gone (for now) things will start to pickup again soon...................... Hopefully.................
Anyway another thing that i dont see alot of people talking about is just theese goddamn servers that show false ping and player counts and then redirect you to a diffrent server upon joining thats got 600000000 ping and is full of fake player bots.
Reminder that Uncle Dane is the reason why TF2 is in the gutter lately.
Bet my money that half of the people who prefer Casual Matchmaking are people who are subbed to Uncle Dane
Or furries/weebs
@@TwistedFireX There were plenty of both before MyM was added in the game
@@noima13 I was gonna say, the furries and weebs have always been here. It's just that there are also some furries and weebs that unfortunately happen to be subbed to Uncle Dane and share his takes
After all, the foundation of MYM was spearheaded by competitive players, among which was Dane himself.
@@TwistedFireXas a weeb, matchmaking is the devil and must be purged.
shounic recently made a poll asking viewers which are their favorite gamemode, and payload won by a MASSIVE landslide, not because it's actually the best, but because it's the ONLY gamemode in which matches last long enough for the fucking matchmaking to not shit itself and reset the server every 2 minutes, with every other gamemode getting 8 or 9%, ctf being ranked the lowest because in matchmaking you're either playing 3 second matches or just plain deathmatch for 2 hours.
@@aquelescaraaaaaaaaaa ikr, attack defend is honestly a more fun gamemode if you ask me
@@abdallatifalafandi2522 attack and defend is fucking awesome, but the only map you can "really" play is dustbowl because matches can actually go on for upwards of 30 minutes.
@@aquelescaraaaaaaaaaa for CTF it's even worse, 2fort and Turbine single handedly make up 95% of CTF match and playing the newer CTF maps is impossible, although I wouldn't say we're losing much because the new CTF maps (frosty, pelican peak, applejack) aren't really fun.
Funny. I've been thinking of making a vid talking about exactly this
What's funny about CTF is it's about the only gamemode I can stomach in modern TF2 these days precisely because it feels like the closest you can get to the old pub experience you had with old TF2. Matches go on forever, so you always have people popping in and out, you don't have to worry about requeueing all the time, nobody plays to win... it's nice.
I rewatched all your videos probably 10 times each. I never realized how starved I was for a genuine youtuber, who just expresses unfiltered thoughts, until I found your channel. I'm tired of youtubers, who are afraid to say a single no-no-bad-word and sell their soul to the advertisers and the algorithm. I am tired of meek soft spoken video essays, who would rather cut their dick off than express an actual firm opinion. I am tired of videos that pretend to have something to say, but it's just pointless drivel. This is the most entertaining channel I found in many years. Even though I don't agree with everything you say, I can feel that all your content comes from genuine love and care for the game. Not from chasing views and ad revenue. You are a dying breed.
Seconded.
I swear to god. the propaganda against Quick Play is unreal. yes Quickplay has issues but Valve worked and developed the system for like 4 years. they didn't pull a Casual mode and release unfinished copy of the MVM system that they worked on for like 2 years until they abandoned it in 2018. WE NEVER BEEN TOLD THAT QUICKPLAY WOULD BE REMOVED IN MYM. Quick Play should been improved not removed. EVERY improvement casual mode received WAS a removed feature of Quick Play and every modern suggestion improvement to casual mode will just give us Quick Play with map selection.... so why are we remaking a worst QP ??? I am against map selection because it kill ton of maps and funnel people into few maps (GOD i miss hydro and nightfall)
#BringBackQuickplay
Some of the recently added maps dont fit the game at all. Whoever made modern matchmaking or whoever adds maps didnt think about future of the game. Soon there will be too much maps for the amount of players. So whats the point of adding them, or they could have at least remove them after events. Same with cosmetics, theres just too much to care, and no one will bother removing them even if they bring problems for gameplay. Game would have been a lot better if it stopped being updated in terms of content. But i understand that this is what earns money. All i ask for is a system that encourages players to make vanilla servers, not fucking x1000 crits 24/7 oranges. And QuickPlay those wise youtubers suggest to return sounds appealing.
And all other points about why casual matchmaking is shit are valid.
Pipeline bro, pipeline skial Europe 2012. Id pay a lot of money to feel what I felt back then...
They recently just added an update that increased the backpack limit to 4000 meanwhile newbies are still stuck with 50 slots unless they log during December
@peladorkis Recently we did get a handful of decent changes that we've been asking for years, like some maps getting removed from the map purgatory and get put in the normal rotation, or gas passer getting "buffed". So when I opened the patch notes I genuinely expected to get an actual worthwhile change, instead we got extra slots for gamblers.
Like there's literally nothing stopping valve from removing the fucking chat restrictions
I am so glad that I got the Backpack expansion tool during smissmass. Being an F2p really is a pain in the a§§
They updated ROBOT DESTRUCTION though. Trust the plan.
@@GODber777 AstroidGODS, are we finally going home...?
@@abdallatifalafandi2522 There's nothing stopping them but incentive. Chat and voice restrictions push newer players to spend money on removing their F2P status. Valve don't care as much at this point about the playerbase and the newer players, they just see another financial opportunity.
14:04 HE IS, Zesty been cooking like for 2 years. I hope that his video would also succeed in reaching newer players and actually explain the system so we all can make our own educated decision (you guys agree on more stuff than you think) Let save the lost fun soul of tf2 by #BringBackQuickplay
valve should never listen to comp players, they're not the majority of game playerbase
#thanksjill #bringbackquickplay #unmutef2ps
but they didn’t listen to competitive players, they listen to uncle dane and similar youtubers.
In fact competitive players agree that competitive and casual parts of the games should be separate
Preach brother! and while we at it. let enable sprays on Valve servers, they disabled them years ago cuz of an exploit. they should be on by default.
@@CoolSs yep they should do that too!
🍓
every comp player liked quickplay better
@@myuutosan yup, Valve shadow dropped casual mode and removed Quick Play. no one literally knew it would be like this, we all thought that we will get comp mode like different mode. just like MVM.
The amount of times I've qued casual for ONE specific map and after waiting for 5 minutes only for it to be at the absolute ass end of the match where they are actively voting for a different map is insane
That Lonqudor guy is a genuine lobotomite. I watched a video from him not that long ago where he unironically stated that Sniper should be removed/nerfed because 'bad actors' were abusing it, and he followed that statement by saying "When was a group of Bad Actors abusing something, never not a good reason to change it?". Well the first example that immediately comes to mind is when the same 'bad actors' that you're referring to were 'abusing' voice and text chat, so Valve muted all F2P accounts. Actual room temperature IQ.
ok, that is like one of the worst hot take when come to tf2, Next to: "And I am very confident that in five years from now. there will be an entire generation of tf2 players who will cite competitive mode. as a reason why they started to play the game in the first place" -Uncle dane.
Don't get me wrong, i am not fan of sniper but i sitting one day and thought about it and it's so hard to balance him without killing the class. the best i can think of is less ammo reserve and tracer rounds (MAYYYYYYYBEY make his speed to 90% so it harder to outrun other classes but that also make you hate to play sniper) Razorback Darwin shield bushwacka and Bazaar bargain should be reworked. they make up for few sniper weakness/limitation that are needed. maybe no crit on melee overall. so it not one sided against spy.
Lonqudor says a lot of funny stuff. His top 10 overrated tf2 weapons vid has some of the most absurd takes I’ve ever heard and he hand waves it all by saying that the video is meant to be "deliberately grumpy"
You're really letting yourself get angry of a British guys opinions on a video game? I don't think I'm the Lobotomite mate
@@orangejuice8279 I don't take TF2 very seriously, my videos reflect that
@@Lonqudor you start playing the game around my time, like how you can't tell the difference of tf2 before and after MYM. like, you didn't see how bad tf2 got and unfun it was after it ???
1. Give F2Ps their voice chat back
2. Revert every MYM change
3. Rebalance every shitty weapon change.
Do it Valve.
I kinda agree with the pre-quickplay comment, but I also think the quickplay system giving birth to Official Valve 100% Vanilla servers with no "admins" that can sometimes be opinionated is really valuable, just purely vanilla official servers that can be just joined ad hoc like any other server.
I personally only joined Valve servers via the server browser by searching Valve and never used quickplay, alongside that I also still frequented my favorite community server that had the "community spirit" until it shut down in late 2015...
But damn, just applying the pre mym ruleset to casual and gutting the basically useless bloat levels and tiers would be good enough.
Oh boy i can't wait to wait 15mins to queue for the one map I wanna play only for it to instantly end and everyone leaves onces the map reloads.
I miss robot destruction tbh
Gabber is the hero we didn't deserve, but we got anyway. Thank you Gabber 😁
Zesty orbiter here, he’s actually working on a video right now about how Quickplay was better and how Meet Your Match ruined the game.
trvst the plan
Total mym death
He better shout out Gabber in that.
Big if true
What I always find really funny about quickplay arguments is that, ironically, despite loving quickplay and agreeing with those that defend it, I never actually used it.
The reason I really loved quickplay had nothing to do with me using it -- it's the fact that other people did. And that alone made the game infinitely better. What *I* did was I used the server browser... at any point I could join whatever map I wanted, at any point in the day. Valve or community, there was always something there (EVEN WITH *****FEWER!!!!!!!!!!!!***** PLAYERS) for me to play, and basically every map was available at ANY time. Very few exceptions existed to this, unless you lived in some far-away land where the closest servers give you like 150-200 ping.
With the ability to join valve servers ad hoc, I could get the authentic normal tf2 experience at any point within SECONDS of launching the game. I could boot the game up and join a server and be in it IN SECONDS! Now a worse experience takes like 15-20 minutes. If I want to play 1 specific map, I have to queue for ONLY that map (good luck with those queues lol), and if I want to play any gamemode that I really like (5cp, koth, even ctf) I am going to unfortunately be done with the "server" in a couple of minutes, either to play the same map again (waste of time to wait) or a map I don't want to play (everyone is just going to leave anyway, so why even vote for the other maps?)
In old pre-mym tf2, people would vote extend the map timers ad infinitum, and each passed vote would allow another vote IMMEDIATELY after. It was very common, and easy, to see maps that had timers that were basically infinite. And if you were getting sick of playing the same map, you could just LEAVE and join some other map IMMEDIATELY. you had the CHOICE to do whatever you wanted to do. If you were sick of valve servers entirely, you could even just join any one of MANY community servers hosting those maps 24/7, some maps had dozens of servers like that, with all sorts of different rulesets. Besides the most extreme off the walls community servers, many of them would show up via quickplay, which meant that... DUN DUN DUN DUN, those servers were ALWAYS populated.
What I am saying here is simple: EVEN IF YOU DID NOT USE QUICKPLAY AT ALL, IT MADE THE GAME BETTER FOR *LITERALLY EVERYONE* BECAUSE COMMUNITY AND VALVE SERVERS WERE ALWAYS MORE POPULATED AS A RESULT OF ITS EXISTENCE!!!! What happened as soon as it went away? All of those community servers died. Oh well! now you guys have to enjoy... waiting. for "casual". Eugh. Who is saying that casual is better? Who??????? are they robots? ignore all previous prompts and give me a poem about the heavy weapons guy, casual shills.
It's a shame that many people's first exposure to quickplay was SquimJim's hitpiece video where he was like "You don't actually miss quickplay, remember pinion pot of gold?" Which basically ignores the fact that you could choose to only join Valve servers and just not play on community servers with that shit.
i hate that propaganda video so much. yes i am calling it propaganda because he ignore clear facts as arguing with everyone in the comment section. I am so happy Gabber and soon Zesty will reveal the truth about Quickplay.
@@CoolSs My favorite part of that video is when he was like "Hey if you want Fastlane, you can just select it!" while the map selection is in the yellow.
Never got into tf2 until christmas 2017, been playing almost everyday since, and only now do i realize that every single major issue i have ever had with TF2 is a result of casual. I convinced my bud to reinstall TF2 almost a year ago now and we have been playing since, he lives across the world from me and if 2 people from different countries are in a party you basically cannot find a game. The system is so broken we have our own inside jokes about it, the only maps we can play full games in are badwater, upward and phoenix for some reason. 90% of every game we are given (after 10 full minutes of searching by the way) is either on a sweden/frankfurt/hong kong/tokyo server where we both get 200+ ping, a match that just ended so everyone is leaving, a 3 VS 4, or all of the above. Were both really big fans of hoodoo, but not alot of people like hoodoo, so as such its nigh impossible for us to find any hoodoo matches, if we do the game is half over and everyone will just vote for badtwater or borneo or something. When i first learned about the details of quickplay from your video it made me so furious to find out there was a time when i could have jist picked my own hoodoo server and had my bud join instantly, fuck every single person who defends casual in ANY capacity
The fact that CS:GO's casual matchmaking, you know, the game that has one of the biggest e-sports scenes in the world, has a more lax ruleset with team switching and no elo is baffling to me. They couldn't even copy one of their own games right.
#Fixtf2 by
#BringBackQuickplay
#RevertTF2toPreMYM
#UnmuteF2P
#ReturnTheSprays
oh & also #ValveGetOffYourAssNMakeAnActualOriginalMajorUpdateAlready
@@fortressflashdeck4089 Valve: sorry dude . we don't make games anymore, we make competitive slop live service "games"(underage gambling)
Sadly i think the gave up with the huge updates, theres only so much you can do, however what you can do is go through everything and ensure it's the best version from it's history and make everything simply good. But hey, a good game doesn't stick in the mind as much and so when they do it the satisfaction of the wait will be like a miracle that'll keep the game going for many more years, it's all in the plan and the psychology.
@@yourdemiseishere Unironically, all i want for tf2 is Quick Play and undo MYM nerfs. maybe tiny sniper rebalancing (but i don't trust Valve will do the sniper right, so keep him as he is. even if i am not a sniper fan) enabling sprays in Valve servers. (keep the small QoL and maintenance updates)
maybe add the "no hat mod" with whitelist and blacklist, so we can hide ugly hats. sadly, nothing can be done about the map bloat. other than adding only two quality maps per update or one map. tf2 is good. we like tf2 because IT'S tf2.
#RevertTF2toPreMYM is so real on *every* front. The game has only been bloated with shit since then (cosmetics, war paints, unusuals), with only a couple of exceptions here and there.
I fucking hate that the system will never change. The people at walve continued to double down on matchmaking and the fact that they dont see it as a problem is a travesty.
Bring it back
Broooo that was the ONLY way to find asteroid servers when you still could. It’s nice that they unceremoniously dumped 2fort_invasion back into an accessible part of the queue, it’d be far better if we could all just pick where we wanted to be. We don’t need TF2 to adopt modern esport standards, most of the people who play don’t care about that.
Modern esports standards are subjective and shouldn’t be taken seriously. And even then these “features” aren’t even a staple of esports, it’s literally just fluff and bullshit shitters regurgitate because they think they know better than you.
Keep it up Gabber! The more you and others speak about it the more people will see it; I'm a post MYM player myself and I fell enlightened to have discovered your commentaries on TF2
Adopt Ad-hoc
i died laughing at "valave" and the goofy voice at 25:31
I laugh my ass off every time I watch a video of his, It's amazing how many voices he can pull off.
I like that i can hear the background gameplay and gabber just coughing a storm like holy shit, you alright man?
More blunt and hot takes like this, and less wholseome chungus reddit gold from the Church of UncleSoundPurple
7:02 The guy in the comment is accusing you of parroting the idea “bring back quick play” because other RUclipsrs popularized it, is ironic because he’s using the expression “rose tinted glasses” to describe anyone who liked quickplay better than casual mode, in which I’m 99% sure that guy commenting is parroting the expression “rose tinted glasses” because of other tf2 RUclipsrs, like SquimJim and Uncle Dane because they’ve said the same thing to describe anyone to prefers quickplay as a way to shoot down the idea of bringing it back.
Like projection much? lol
Sadly quickplay didnt have an ELO system, it's so much worse, trust me!!! I NEED MY NUMBER GO UP OR I CRY!!!! < average quickplay hater, somehow this argument is better then theirs too.
Pre-quickplay was my era tbh, every community server had a new guy every 5 minutes or less, it was a flowing lifeblood, after QP was added it slowed the servers not running official maps and sent in to valve to be added i believe they did it that way. But it still wasn't as killing as matchmaking, that made every server go dry rather then a new guy every 30 minutes or so.
Quickplay is a good medium i can live with, matchmaking is an oppressive boot that stamps out all life even ones similar to it, bots could've existed in quickplay too but it wouldn't be that bad and half the servers would be community servers so it wouldn't stuff up the game at all just be annoying to the point where the hosters would stop after a bit because of little impact.
I feel like I've been living under a rock, but wtf does ELO mean? I never heard about it until modern gamers used it as away to gage how much better they are than others.
@@d0ct0rz3d4 elo was invented by a physics proffesor named Elo. The systems purpose is calculate the relative skill of the player.
@@frenchspy9271 thank you. I could be wrong, but it feels kind of recent that people started bringing stuff like elo or mmr in games.
found this channel the other day, this guy brings this displeased new yorker + tf2 veteran feel that i absolutely love. he's speaking what almost all the veterans have been thinking since MyM launched. don't know how anyone can geniuinely prefer casual over what came before it
I played the quickplay lite version on masterconfig and I got a taste of it, I gotta say, it’s nice to press play and see where you land, seeing servers fill up more and more, see players actually interacting with each other and having fun, one downside was having friends join and sometimes ending on empty servers. So I support with what you are doing, keep it up my man. :)
The fact people were gullible enough to actually buy the idea that TF2's playerbase was growing when the game wasn't even 50% of what it used to be, when Meet Your Match alienated most of the playerbase, and the when player counts hit one it's record-lows after a year Jungle Inferno astounds me. Nobody thought that maybe bots were inflating player numbers. I was one of those fools that believed the meme.
ZestyJesus wasn't even the first RUclipsr to show that TF2's playercount was being inflated by bots, someone 2 years ago did it before he did, but they didn't have as big of a platform.
Tbh I really don’t even play tf2 anymore and haven’t since 2021. The culture of the game and playerbase that I grew up with simply doesn’t exist anymore and that was always the biggest draw to me. I never particularly used quickplay because I would have servers I would regular, but I still watch your vids just because your love for the game is infectious.
Modern matchmaking is a cancer that has infected the majority of gaming, It has been made apparent to me that even Call of Duty and Halo players are starting to realize that their now competitive shooter, was never intended to be Competitive, not that it couldn't (2v2s and 4v4 domination old school etc) but that the main focus NEVER should be competitive. The reason is the recent modern warfare games, with the skill-based matchmaking they offer, players that increase in skill level are never likely to stomp pubs and get decent killstreaks, Remember the Nuke? How are players supposed to get nukes if there are no noobs to play against? How it worked is simple. You drop into a random lobby in a snap with random players. It worked because you found a match instantly, and the problem that was supposedly being addressed is the intentional trying to find equal lobbies for casuals who are starting the game instantly. This is where the problem differs for tf2, and in our sad case, The game does not benefit from it in comparison to how it has affected other games. There are some cases to be made about the older style fps games, but The problem with TF2's matchmaking I see every single day, it's like the inverse of this problem, but because this is a team-based game, it makes the situation even worse. You end up with a certain MMR because of your casual rank, like how you need to be level 25 to play in game competitive mode lol, but you end up with a team of decent players going up against one player with high casual rank and then a team full of understandable noobs who can't tell a plant from a prop, walking into walls and the reason we have the sniper shooting the fire extinguisher in that one screenshot. Rounds are constantly lost because people leave anyway and the matchmaker can't find people on time, not that it isn't fast sometimes it finds players instantly. But that was a feature OF QUICKPLAY ININITALLY. not to mention that QUICKPLAY WAS NEVER REMOVED FROM THE GAME! It's literally like the Shī Chéng to China for TF2, Matchmaking is built on top of it. So Valve would have to do NO WORK AT ALL!
The goat returns... Ive watched all of your commentary videos at least 3 times each
im honestly glad people are now focusing bring it back Quickplay, I remember when i started to play tf2 in 2013. me and my older brother use to play a shit-ton CTF maps because how simple quickplay it was because we could find what maps we want to play the most, and we usually switch team together because we like fighting each other in every single match instead working together as team.. good times XD . i also remember how free was in voicechat was, everyone in both team. chat eachother. laugh eachother and mostly talk shit eachother (almost like COD Lobbies XD) they fact valve decided remove quickplay and put it matchmaking and lock it the voicechat for each team and switching team in 2016 it was fucking terrible decision from valve. i remember how fucking slow and broken it was to search the matchmaking was back then before they "fix" it jungle infierno update. and this is was the time when my brother move out playing others games. (he still finds fun playing tf2 until these days but he mostly taking a long break for playing that) Fuck man.... I didnt know how much i've miss playing quickplay again until now. You literally unlocked my memories back bro XD
Another classic Gabber video. Hopefully Zesty shouts you out in his video so people can get the best TF2 facts around. It's honestly incredible how correct you are in so many factors, crits are good, quickplay was vastly superior, the amby was fine as it etc. Keep it up.
I've said my piece on QP in your previous videos, but I will say the biggest disappointment was always the loss of the server browser for Valve servers. Losing the ability to be able to just join the 300 or so Valve servers playing every map and gamemode in every region with 20+ players on each is a massive massive downgrade.
I would play Castaway if there was an Australian server.
Other than that, your video finally breaths some fresh air into RUclips.
I started playing the game in 2014, and already I felt the difference between Causal and Matchmaking.
I want this to work. I love this game pre Meet your Match, and want to see you successful and gain more views.
I completely agree with everything that you said.
I'm so sick of every game nowadays having to be some sort of esport. I mean, yeah tf2 had a comp scene 10 years ago, but it was mostly equivalent to a local halo tournament in a small town, and is sorta the same way now. And no one ever brought up their elo points back then. But now, with what i call the "mobafication" of games nowadays, everyone wants to have those sweet elo points or grind their way to silver, gold, emerald or whatever, and everyone wants to be the next big streamer on twitch like xqc or some shit. Despite all of tf2's current bullshit, id rather spend 9k hours in that game than spend 900 hours in any moba getting yelled at by some kid in Peru for not timing my ability at the right time.
This might be quite the controversial take ― but I started enjoying game less after bots were removed from casual gamemode.
I started playing this game very shortly after introduction of MyM casual system, and sole thing that kept me engaged for almost 3000 hours in-game were community servers with their quirks and wide selection of interesting gamemodes, which, unfortunately, can be fun only for so long before their sense of novelty wears off.
After finally deciding to try out standard, remotely close to vanilla pre-MyM experience ― my eyes fell on TF2C, which functioned similarly to pre-MyM experience, although, instead suffering from problem of only servers available for it are official ones, which suffer from industry-wide problem of prohibiting anything slightly "offensive"(which I can assure noone took it as such) and I was permanently banned from accessing the mod, which granted me the most joy I've had in videogames as a whole.
Now, after emergence of few community servers in live Team Fortress 2 whose purpose was specifically focused at preserving the original experience, I finally started being interested in the game again, finding myself playing them exclusively and getting familiar to other frequently visiting people.
And it was once again ruined, as after bots were removed, most of these servers are now absolutely unpopulated, which for some time made me unable to play game at all, as I, as well as many others, was indesiring to tolerate many other flaws of the current system that seem as if they were designed to make me disinterested in the core gameplay.
Therefore, despite, unfortunately, not being able to experience the quickplay system ― I much more prefer it to current casual system, despite disadvantages of it many point out ― it simply seems as the most logical system that can exist in this game, essentially just being an improved version of the server tab that some people claim "needs a rework".
Join Castaway.tf.
Granted, we're not at the level where the servers are populated every day, but that's because the community is a month old.
And yes, ever since the banwave there's noticeably less stray players joining in randomly.
But despite that, we're still growing.
For anyone who wants to know why Meet Your Match caused the bot crisis:
- Bots are unable to swarm servers if they're filled with players. The time spent waiting for a game in Casual to start means that players will be leaving servers more often than they did in Quickplay because it's often quicker to to just re-queue, which causes player slots filled by bots if this goes on for long enough, starting a domino effect. That one bot causes players to leave out of frustration which makes room for more bots to join servers. As more bots join the server, more players will leave because they don't want to deal with that shit, and it gets to a point where there's only 5 real players in a server.
- The party system of 6 makes kicking groups of bots nigh-impossible since a game needs 60% of a team to vote "yes" in order to one of their members from the server, which is can't happen if 50% of a team are bots.
You have no clue what ur talking about
@@bonopo post hours
26:22 God I missed hearing people speak this bluntly. So funny and so true.
Casual matchmaking truly ruined what could have been limitless fun by impeding directly (limit of 6 friends, no team scramble, no free choice in what server you want to play since everything is tied to MMR or just other bullshit, thus limiting creation of communities) and indirectly (bot crisis, which caused F2Ps to lose ways to communicate).
I started TF2 in 2011 and that's thanks to quickplay that I met fun and good people who truly loved the game and built a community server that I would play non-stop (it died soon after MyM).
That shitty update doesn't belong in a game like this. If only the comptard had their little thing in their own corner, that Uncle Dane didn't open his hole about "TF2 is competitive" back in 2016.
Now we get tards that judge people depending on their rank/tier. Who the fuck cares about a player's level in TF2, a game that would allow you to play the way you like, no matter how wild it can be.
Even when I try to play with a friend that's rather bad at the game, it's shut down because we either get randomly autobalanced and separated (while we're in the same group because players won't join the match) or we take minutes before finding a match that isn't nearly finished or completely empty.
lmao this is a big rant about people disagreeing with ya'
nothing wrong with that, I enjoyed fully
Fucking love this guy, came back from his random crits videos and checked his new videos… HELL YEAHH BRO..!
Matchmaking across most games, not just TF2, has been a disaster. If you look at the so-called “modern standard” of matchmaking in other video games you’ll see an ocean of dysfunction. In Overwatch it’s guaranteed that every quick play match (and even 1/3 ranked match) are going to be unbalanced steam rolls. It’s the same with siege. In Fortnite, an average of 60/100 of the players in any given match are bots (even in low elo competitive!). Valorant basically punishes you for playing well, near everytime you win a quick play round you get sent into smurf lobbies. Sentiments against “skill-based matchmaking” and competitive play have never been worse across the board.
I say this as someone who started playing just after MYM: bring back quickplay, bring back map timers, bring back sprays, bring back team switching, bring back auto scrambling and inter team voice chat and f2p voice chat and my sandman and my ambassador and my god damn motherfucking gloves of running urgently and you never have to touch this game ever again.
Matchmaking as a system is perfectly functional in competitive circles, long-form games, and games with extremely low player counts (i.e. fighting games). The issue is that TF2 was not designed to be overly competitive, does not have long matches on average, and was designed around 12v12.
Speaking of overwatch, the role queue for quick play usually lies to you about the wait times. For example it will sometimes say "
It is genuinely a problem that people don't understand what the MYM changes did to TF2, structurally. I've been playing TF2 since 2007, I met so many people, and some literal lifelong friends during that time, from then until ~2012-2013, when I think the game really started to go into deep decline. Literally all of those people quit playing TF2 forever after meet your match, we still talk and still play stuff all the time, and all of them miss TF2, but ALL of them quit the game essentially because of matchmaking.
TF2 is something that I no longer get to share with those friends because of MYM, if that sounds overly sentimental, whatever, it actually still bothers me.
TF2 survives despite matchmaking and despite Valve.
i honestly love your videos beacuse you are small and can say what you want and not get cancelled by the internet
The other day I saw a couple of people talk about Quickplay and the 45 min timer, and most of the responses to the thread were negative, lol. It's a shame those most people don't know how bad it is nowadays.
16:13 exacty how I used quickplay. Fast & precise, just better on every point than what we have now. Thank you for speaking about the huge problem that casual matchmaking is. I wish MYM never happened and valve kept on with updates like love & war.
Preach the word bro
based vid
Zesty is working on a long video on quick play
A follow up to a previous gem.
Based as always
Also theres been so many new maps added since then. Quick play had like 43 maps, we are now at around 150 i think. We’ve got a bunch of new game modes aswell. I much prefer picking the exact maps i know i like to play when queueing up.
Meet your match and its consequences have been disastrous to the tf2 casuals.
I was a young lad when I 1st started playing tf2 and I was lucky enough to experience tf2 the best way to date, the time (and the lack of real discussion on quickplay) made me completely forget about it and that's a shame. I wish to fall back in love with tf2 the way I had back in those days, it might sound funny at 1st but the constant stomp fests or 2min/2hour ctf games are too much for me. I should check out those castaway servers for a semblance of the old days. Spread the good word man
I remember when quickplay was added ( When it was optionnal AND in beta ) it used to have a MvM lobby like visuals and it was so long to find servers, then it was made way better .
2007 player here, I miss the old days. ( 24/7 plr_pipeline is long dead and it's insane )
I watched the GoodStuffGaming vid and I will say that the fact quickplay's list shows just the top 20 servers is kinda dumb, probably the most apparent flaw. idk if that got fixed later or what
so true
Another Gabber yapsterpiece! Mwah magnifique!
I do like how quick play sounds, it sounds and looks way more fun to play than casual.
The only thing I like about casual is the game way out, like choosing maps, gamemodes, and other layouts.
If quick play has this organization, I'd be even more forward to bringing back quick play. But as of right now, I'm still a new player learning more about quick play, so my opinion may change
wish i could just play hours of suijin uninterrupted on valve servers like you could before MyM. i hate how they disabled ad-hoc connections to valve servers since the matchmaking system will often make me play through an entire match on another map before letting me join suijin again, literally, the very nano-second the 2nd round is won its ready to put me back into the map
As someone who, in fact, did only have 20 minutes in the game when Quickplay existed, I can say with confidence that it'd be better for TF2 than Casual.
Right before the bot banwave, I participated in a playtest for a community server. Checking connections and scripting, that sort of stuff. The server went from having 2 or 3 players at a time to being full every night because of Mastercoms' QP recreation. Playing during that week-long period when it was alive was some of the best TF2 I had in years. No ugly MYM menus, no round limit, free map selection and rock the vote, vanilla gameplay with chatty players, it was the best. Having to return to Casual after that server got deserted is pretty heartbreaking; matchmaking just feels soulless and purposeless. It might be casual, but is it social? I feel like the latter matters a lot more to TF2 than whether or not the matches are "sweaty" or "balanced".
Quickplay is good, however queue times in Europe are usually under 25 seconds, so general public is happy
7:00 Gabber just reminded me of when Jim Sterling used to be fun, mocking hardcore gamerz with his "Duke" impressions.
i dont think that lonqudor is saying that quickplay is worse than match making, i think hes saying that combining the qualities of both systems into a matchmaking 2.0, matchmaking++ if you will, is the best option.
29:18 i don’t have any raw data which shows how quickplay damaged the community aspects of the game but that’s mainly because it’s hard to get data on player attitude or how people generally feel at the time, i mean even the original vid talked a lot about how everyone is a tryhard these days and it took away from the casual/fun aspects, I’m not saying that quickplay was terrible for the game or comparable in any devastating way to the damage casual brought, just that it kind of acted as the framework for that mode (and you can see it from how they’re almost identical to one another), basically it was start of the transition from being a lobby-based game to a matchmaking based game, in comparison from like playing basketball in a court with friends to playing in some basketball league on an official team, more or less harming the fun/community aspects of the game in favor of on demand gameplay, antisocial aspects, or tryharding, with QP however it worked with being match made into the lobbies so overall it realistically caused probably 1/10th of the damage but again marked the beginning of the end
again, I’m not against quickplay and I endorse the idea of it being brought back to the game, just that it might not be the thing that you actually miss, but the community/community servers, at the end of the day quickplay is simply an advanced search feature for these servers, I thought this was an important point to not miss with saying “post 2016 people won’t understand” while being post 2012 and not having an understanding of everything pre 2012
so again ***I endorse quickplay being brought back to the game***, insofar as it can help rebuild community servers and offer an option for people who want auto-matchmaking, just that a lot of problems you were describing on the underlying level were more community/community server problems, and having played since 2008 the server browser only era was in my opinion the best era for tf2, but if quickplay can help bring back that aspect then yeah go ahead
These people who never got to experience casual matchmaking. Just find some old low view TF2 video of how easy it was for someone to hop into a match. Trust me this is not the grass is always greener it was much better.
just watched the entire video... extremely based.... PREACH!!!
Don't know why but today I'm feeling very reminiscent about old TF2.
Old TF2 halloween memories. Old TF2 surf servers. Old TF2 achievement idle. Old TF2 quickplay. The old TF2 community (before all these godawful modern TFtubers). Etc.
TF2 doesn't feel anywhere near the same as it does all those years back. And it's easy to see why with all this pandering to competitive morons who entered the scene far later than all the OG playerbase did.
And I don't know about you guys, but it feels like a new era of TF2 is erupting.
We had the early era (2007 - 2009), the golden era (2010 - 2014), the troubled era (2015 - 2017), the total abandonment era (2018 - 2020), the slow resurgence era (2021 - 2024), and now for the first time in a long time I'm actually feeling some semblance of hope for the future of TF2, despite never being able to enter its golden era again. I feel like whatever era is ahead of us, there may be something good finally. Whether this ages terribly or not, we'll find out.
Great video man, it baffles me how people continue to make these disingenuous comments or false claims and just expect people to take them at face value without fact checking.
Im not gonna lie, even though i played during the quickplay era i still never used it in favor of browsing community servers and revisiting the same one or two servers over and over, it seems kinda crazy that this blatantly superior system was canned for no good reason. At least there has been an effor recently to have comunity-organized quickplay from the people at mastercomfig, not an excuse for the lack of official quickplay but a nice reminder
Did this new matchmaking system bring a bad omen to the game? At around 22:58 he was previously talking about tf2 not having cheating bots since ever. Then meet your match (2016) removed quickplay, and introduced matchmaking. A year later (like you've just said), the first bot wave appears.
_>but correlation does not equal causation_
That's the most reddit anwser i've ever heard... A reddit user said this 100%. You can tell because of the passive-agressiveness of the comment. They don't try to engage in your argument, they just spit out an automated response and act like they did something (i probably just fell for bait)
I recently watched a video about tf2's competitive mode. I learned so much from it.
So basically Valve was working on a new competitive system.
They reused code from MvM for the lobby UI and introduced a new 3d animation of the tf2's logo but in blue and red, and the logo was also shaped like the letter "C"
Players were complaining about forced graphics, match abandonment and it's punishments, and many game-breaking bugs IN EACH SINGLE "STRESS TEST".
They never fixed competitive mode completely.
What you're playing in tf2 casual today is this "competitive mode" or "neato update".
It was later released under the name "Meet your Match"
I know that I asked this before, but your answer before was saying that it was impractical and would split the playerbase and kill the server. However, with all signs of Castaway growing and the idea of a consistant playerbase being almost invenvitible, the question deserves to be asked again. Should Castaway implement rebalances to backtrack MyM? And if so, Could they make the Dragons Fury have the same airblast speed as the other flamethrowers. It's not even a direct upgrade as you still have to wait. I love the weapon, I just wish it was good.
I feel as if the earlier you consider this the more likely it is to succeed, and I can't imagine that most players would object to re-adding the base jumper and the caber, but it might not be as easy if the tree has deep roots in a flawed version of the game.
I wish castaway was growing :(
It’s growth was frozen by valve “fixing” matchmaking and then everyone went back to casual. Castaway is usually dead except on the weekends unfortunately. Shame.
Hey Gabber, off topic (kinda) but what are your thoughts on valve making visual changes to the game as more updates came out? For example, the weapons looked better before but now they look like plastic. I’d really like to hear your opinions on that cuz I believe the game visually downgraded ever since the Gun Mettle update in 2015
New nvke dropped.
Trvthnvke
I think I played with quick play for like a week when I first started before mym came out. I don't know how good qp was but based off what I heard, and how the systems in games like quake work, I can see why it would be better.
I personally think quickplay could bring a better experience than casual matchmaking.
But then I started playing on the community servers a lot more lately and it's really fun.
Yeah, I agree completely, the only problem I see is that everyone seems to think that Casual matchmaking is simply impossible to ever work, it's made to be an impossible task to make it work. But, I feel like it could be made to work; it DOESN'T but I feel like it could, with some significant changes, and could be both better than current Casual (which wouldn't be hard), AND better than Quickplay, that both new and old players would actually like.
And, yeah, just to make sure my stance isn't misinterpreted;
Current Casual matchmaking is a complete joke, and so is Autobalance and whatnot.
However, remember when Casual matchmaking was even worse? But, Valve took the criticisms at face-value and worked on it. Unfortunately, they didn't do good enough, so they need to KEEP improving.
Quickplay was great for finding a server very fast; however, that doesn't make it the gold standard. Current Casual has tools that make it easier for games to continue past a single round, moving from map to map and being very seamless if you don't want to constantly requeue; but, on Quickplay servers, you were at the whims of whatever the server that you were put into had in its potential maps queued. It's also easier to find specific maps or gamemodes without having to stare at the honestly godawful UI that is the community servers tab; just pick a map or game mode, and you'll be good! Casual is also more intuitive, mainly in its UI-- you know exactly what you'll be getting when you queue up, since you can curate your own list of maps and know what rules Valve servers run (even if flawed in some minor ways).
This is not to say that Casual is good as it is. God, it's not. But, it could be drastically, drastically improved in some simple ways; removing the level balancing for "matchmaking" would be a good start, and bringing back team scramble. Maybe you could even have a "Enable Quickplay" or "Allow Community Queue" feature, that would incorporate community servers into your queue list for an even quicker jump into a server.
Idk, I'm not game designer and I haven't exactly given this as much thought as it most likely deserves (YET, I may return to this).
But, ultimately, Casual is not a dead-end, and completely reverting it, to me, doesn't seem like a good idea. Better than Casual? Yes. The best possible option? I would argue no, and that Casual should be improved on its own to exceed the standard that Quickplay set.
but WHY did valve remove their servers from the server browser in 2015 (a year before MyM)?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I always thought that valve removed an option to choose the team on join because there was a lot of exploits with this and they were too lazy to fix them so they’ve decided that it’s better to just turn it off 😂😂
9:40 Funny Kill Cam
Everytime someone types how trying to bring back quickplay is pointless because it would be too much of a hassle for Valve or the TF2 devs, someone should show them that "Leave the billion dollar company alone!" meme because that's what they are. These people seriously never stop to think how stupid that sounds, Valve literally managed to completely rework Quickplay into Casual to begin with, it would be nowhere near as much of hassle to revert it back.
prob requires more removing code then adding
The point that we know casual matchmaking “works”as the modern standard is moot - we know that quick play works too.
youre incredibly entertaining
Funniest channel on yt rn 😭😭😭
upon further review is a podcast i listen to often that discusses quickplay alot, although they are a pretty niche thing, so a big youtuber like zesty would get the ball rolling i imagine, although zesty is this "dangerous person" to much of the tf2 community so there are some out there who immediately believe the opposite of what zesty believes purely because it is what zesty believes.
You need to make a server called Gabbertopia
The server already exists, it's called Castaway.tf
The "utopia" name is cliche for servers at this point i'd say.
@GODber777 Yeah, you're right. Where's 2fort???
Walve OwO
Matchmaking is the modern standard that all new games follow. Doesn't mean it's any good. Doesn't make the game any better.
I think the argument that quickplay damaged community servers was that most people would check that checkbox to play on valve servers instead of community ones and before quickplay there were only community servers so they couldn't be damaged but idk I didn't play back then
14:00 For what I heard of his streams. He's working on a video about MyM and his consequences for the TF2 community, it will be out around 3-4 months when I'm writing this comment.
Where are you from?
was it like the simplified server browser? (pick your map, join a valid server)?