Douglas Wilson: The Two Kingdoms That Weren't
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Rev. Douglas Wilson discusses the doctrine of the Two Kingdoms. This is a controversy that carries enormous practical significance. How should we live in a world that refuses to acknowledge the kingship of Jesus?
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Read Doug's blog at www.dougwils.com
"Smart people are the ones ruining the world" - Doug
This is one of the best presentations I've seen Doug give that walks a Radical Two Kingdom framed Believer through an honest exploration of a Reformed Two Kingdom position. Share this with your network to gently challenge someone who has grown up with the idea that the church and politics ought not mix.
Excellent presentation.
Great job DW!
Retreat to commitment. I haven't read the book, but I recognize the sentiment.
"Surrendering in all essential respects and acting as though you're preserving something. Acting as though you're protecting something, when you're actually running away."
Conservatives in a nutshell. Pearl-clutchers and bow-tie twirlers, one and all.
Excellent!!!
He's right, Two Kingdom theology is Reformation theology. R2K is something different.
Fantastic.
This is just super clear
Church and state are separate in the sense that they perform different functions. Both church and state are under God's authority and must conform themselves to God's will, but that doesn't mean that the church and state have the same function.
This really is very good
R2K makes a lot of sense if you don't think about it.
This is just a poor representation of 2K. And I don’t even agree with them.
Lol
@@captinkang what are they then? Ya dont get to just drop that comment, and it [just] Hold Weight.
Sacred or Secular are the two i identified, which are also Not the Fullness of The KINGdom of GOD, nor darkness..
Thats funny Bro!
@@captinkang if you were arguing against what He is.. what then would You differ in‽
If this is poor, provide Us with rich; ____ .
Good job teaching Doug ! FYI, I'd like to access your pod cast . To the one removed from the internet. Bob
Bing search Roger Williams supported this view from Isaiah 5:1-7, which describes God’s people as a “vineyard,” a pure garden enclosed from the wilderness of the world. Williams wrote of a “wall of separation” to describe the church’s proper enclosure from the world. Alluding to Isaiah 5 in a reply letter to Pastor John Cotton
The Confessional Lutheran position refers to the right handed and the left handed one kingdom under Christ. There is one kingdom with two hands or two spheres both of which are under the sovereignty of God. Saint Paul’s reference to the higher powers in Romans 13 meant that even the pagan unbelievers were still under the authority of God. The founding fathers of the American constitutional republic understood this one kingdom with left hand and the right hand or the two spheres under God. This is why the establishment of religion clause means that the federal government should not establish a Church to which everyone pays tithes to support because then there is only the left hand of the kingdom meaning the government and the magistrate. The kingdom cannot be separated so that both the Church and the state is under God. This is true even when the state is not Christian.
"Wherever you go; there you are..." Buckaroo Banzi for the win!
At around the 5:30 mark Wilson says the R2K position defines the two kingdoms as the civil vs. the church. That is not the historic R2K position, even of the Westminster Escondido crowd. The distinction between the two kingdoms is not church vs. state or physical vs. spiritual (though Joe Boot constantly insists that’s what we believe! “Dualism!”). The distinction is between the consummative and the non-consummative. You find this reflected in Kline for example.
Pre-fall everything in the Adamic kingdom was destined for consummation glory. In the fall, a temporal, non-consummating sphere was introduced for the purpose of sustaining the world and providing a theatre for the unfolding of redemption. Things like family, procreation, marriage, architectural construction, cultural production etc. are not destined to consummate as part of the New Jerusalem. They were destined for it in pre-fall order. They were “holy”. Now they are “common”, temporal and destined to pass away. (Jesus’ statement on marriage and the family institution ceasing at the consummation for example.)
In the covenant of Grace, Christ completes the dominion mandate Heaven-downward, whereas Adam was to fulfill it earth-upward. In both Adam and Christ’s covenant of works the goal was the union of Heaven and Earth via dominion. But Adam was called to take dominion from a sub-eschatological (non-consummated/glorified) state of existence. Christ fulfills the dominion mandate from a position of consummated eschatology. He is “the man of Heaven” as Paul argues in 1 Corinthians 15. He goes to “prepare a place” I.e. to build the New Jerusalem with its culture, architecture, and redeemed population. That dominionized city of God comes down at the end of the age (Wilson is wrong about this age being “the Jewish Age” in the New Testament) as Heaven and earth become one. But the key is that dominion is not fulfilled from the earth upward any longer. That was the original covenant of works. This is why the covenant of works vs. Covenant of grace distinction in the confession is so vital and leads to a reformed two kingdom understanding, and why most people who hold to Wilson and Boot’s view of kingdom and eschatology deny the covenant of works vs. Covenant of grace distinction, embrace monocovenantalism and end up blurring the doctrine of justification and the active obedience of Christ.
One’s covenant theology must be the starting point for analyzing culture and kingdom. But most folks get enamored with discussions of culture without having worked out the Covenantal foundations. The result is error and confusion and Boot’s explicit denial of the law/gospel distinction. Take heed
Very well said. Boot’s monocovenantalism and rejection of law-gospel distinction put him outside of reformed orthodoxy.
Wilson goes on to assert the “by what standard” and “not whether but which” notions. These are designed to back-door unsuspecting Christians into accepting the Christian Reconstruction idea that all governments, institutions, and cultures must be Christianized as supposedly mandated by the Great Commission.
Wilson gets the audience to agree to very reasonable points (eg. we know murder is wrong because the Bible says so). Then he invokes the Great Commission, which of course Christians agree is very important. But then he reinterprets it in a way that most people have never heard: “ethnos” suddenly means all of every nation’s population must become Christian. We can’t know who God has elected for salvation, but God commands us to preach the gospel to “every creature” (Mark 16:15), in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the Earth (Acts 1:8). Missing from this is the Christian Reconstruction/Christian Nationalist notion that all governments, institutions, and cultures be Christianized. Besides, nothing of this world will survive into the new heavens and the new Earth. Indeed, it’s all passing away. Preaching the gospel therefore becomes paramount for the Christian, as it should be.
But if family and marriage are temporal and not part of the New Jerusalem, then does the Church really have any authority to speak to marriage or family? Wouldn't that be stepping out of one kingdom into another?
@CP-dk8oi Right ? This is why I always found their position so absurd. Their entire reasoning is built on the assumption that christians will always be a losing minority and that pagans will always be the kings and queens of the world. But what happens when everyone or 95% of the population is christian then ???
1. Did God put on a hat when He did not put Cain to death after he murdered Abel?
2. Does this indicate God working through at least two sovereignty spheres?
3. Is this the same kind of conflict the Christian man enters when he decides to marry in 1 Cor 7?
4. Does this lift two kingdoms or sphere sovereignty beyond the theoretical and put it into the realm of the real. It is something we deal with.
Pastor they won't let people smoke pot in a jail cell 😂🤣😂🤣...yet, I understand what you mean about liberty....and the analogy
Family. Civil. Church...govt
So, why was Jesus not interested in Caesar's realm?
And the realm of the scribes and pharisees was not? Why did He reserve all of His anger for them and nothing for the Romans?
@CP-dk8oi so why did He say: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's." Are they not different things?
@CP-dk8oi , you have not answered the question. What are Caesar's things? And, clearly, it is not just coins as you say. What are God's things? There is clearly a difference.
I know..#its strong force... 😂
Is there one king? Is not Satan the god of this world, ruling over all the kingdoms of this world, and their glory? He had them in his power to offer to Jesus.
But the Puritans improved on Calvin's Two Kingdoms. Case in point, Thomas Watson explicitly taught that Two Kingdoms: one being the Providential Kingdom vs the Redemptive Kingdom, with the latter having an external (visible, Institutional church) and internal Sphere (invisible church).
In the reflection of the window I think I see someone rocking a baby.
Although I have disagreements on points with Wilson, I have respected him as a thinker. This video challenges that, sadly. He misunderstands R2K (having labeled it effectively to make it hard to defend - i.e. as “radical”) as I understand it. Probably most egregious in this respect is his portrayal of natural law as some sort of established authority to which one appeals. R2K as I understands it recognizes the notion of natural law as a biblically taught doctrine (Romans 1), and would challenge us to persuade in the public sphere based on that law written on men’s hearts, since by God’s common grace it will be reflected in every faith and worldview to some degree (if imperfectly due to the noetic effect of sin - also noted in Romans 1).
Fix Fix (no name?): You're making a lot of unwarranted assumptions: For example that Romans 1 refers to natural law. How do you come to that conclusion? Does God then have two different sets of law? Since God's law is a reflection of His unchangeable character, does He have two characters? You seem to just assume the existence of a "natural law", and then build a very vague thesis on it. Also, what common grace? There is only particular grace or did Christ in part also die for unbelievers to give them "some" grace. This is the frustrating thing with R2K proponents, they argue like liberals in the public realm....very vague and based on emotions instead of facts. And maybe you want to consider putting your name with your arguments.
@Lyric Luka in all love and respect, you need to repent of your sin and stop worshipping your girlfriend and bow the knee to King Jesus
@Lyric Luka we don’t.
@@sachaw.4236 Whatever you think about "R2K", Wilson does not describe it correctly here as I understand it. What prominent R2K person would have a problem with someone appealing to the 10 commandments to argue that murder should be illegal?
I agree with Fix. Wilson's understanding of R2K is not quite accurate. @Fix.
Doug Wilson does a great job not understanding a true R2K position.
I'd love to hear him debate a real R2K theologian. Instead he tackles his R2K strawmen and then proceeds to dance like he's won something.
Could you expand on that?
TWO-KINGDOM ALERT!
Most alleged pronomians* opposed to the Escondido two-kingdom hypothesis are themselves promoters of a two-kingdom theology, promoting obedience to secular government (e.g. to the biblically egregious Constitutional Republic) rather than a biblical replacement of the same, per Matthew 6:10 & 33, Romans 12:21, Romans 13:1-7, 1 Corinthians 6:1-6, 2 Corinthians 10:4-6, 1 Peter 2:13-14, etc.**
There are two kingdoms, period: biblical and secular. To claim anything else is to be as double-minded as were the Israelites on Mt. Carmel with Elijah. Why halt ye between two opinions? If We the People (a contemporary form of Baal***) be God, serve them. If Yahweh be God, serve Him!
Worse, it's idolatry! Idolatry is not so much about statues as it is statutes, such as what one considers the supreme law of the land.
There can only be one supreme law: 1) The biblically seditious Constitution,**** or 2) Yahweh's triune and integral moral law, per the Bible. Thus to swear to or to promote obedience to both biblical law and secular law is to be a two kingdom advocate.
*To reject any one the three components of Yahweh's triune moral law (the Ten Commandments and their respective statutes and judgments) is to be 2/3rds pronomian. Many alleged pronomians reject the civil judgments as mandatory under the New Covenant and are therefore 2/3rds pronomians, which means they're neither pronomians nor biblical dominionists. Whoever metes out the civil judgments ultimately controls dominion.
**See free online book "The Romans 13 Template for Biblical Dominion: Ten Reasons Why Romans 13 is Not About Secular Government" at Bible versus Constitution dot org. Go to our Online Books page and scroll down to title.
***See blog article "Could You Be a Disciple of Baal and Not Know It?" Search title on our Blog.
****See free online book "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective," in which every Article and Amendment is *examined* by the Bible. Click on top entry on our Online Books page.
This sounds nice at face value, but surely you're not ignorant of the Roman Catholic outcome. Mixing theology and politics is why countless Protestants died until they finally moved to American land. Before the declaration of Independence, there were political penalties for not surrendering to the government's theological ideas. But of course, you already know this Wilson.
Yes, keep government out of the church. But this doesn't mean keep God out of the government. That seems to be a subtle leap you make
@@sovereigngrace9723 how do you suppose we put God into our government?
@@thecityofgod2257 We put God into government a) in the heart of individuals who trust in Christ and who are progressively transformed by his Holy Spirit, and b) by using the morality revealed by God in the Bible (and recognized and approved by the individual who trusts in Christ) as the foundation for our legal system.
@@bigstory1153 If we can learn anything from history, it's that every time we had a "Christianized" government, it was never good. From King David killing for lust, all the way to John Calvin killing citizens of Geneva for theological differences. Mixing theology and politics has always ended in bloodshed.
@@bigstory1153 Even more, the whole point in the declaration of independence was to declare independence from the christianized government of England, because they were killing other Christians for doctrinal differences. Yes, there was so much bloodshed that we had to move to the American land and declare independence from them, and separate religion from government. This way, the government cannot tell us what to believe.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually through time to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled.
No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.
This truth will free you to seek for the Living God in the Spirit and to truly KNOW GOD instead of just knowing ABOUT HIM.
The GOSPEL is NOT written with ink, nor on tablets of stone, but on our hearts by the Spirit of the Living God.
The gentiles who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, then they are a law unto themselves.
Under the New Covenant we are to be led by the Holy Spirit, not the bible.
I was searching for truth when Jesus told me, "The bible is an idol" which completely changed my direction. After that I only sought for Him in the Spirit and He has taught me many things on life's journey.
The most important of which is that He died so we could be regenerated by the Holy Spirit into sons and daughters of God.
The gospel is simple, repent from living after the flesh, ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit and then be led and controlled by Him through the Spirit.
The bible is only history and has absolutely no authority from God to control us, the outward law was under the old covenant. Jesus died to redeem us from the curse of the written law because we were unable to keep it.
Have a great journey through life with the Living Christ guiding you.
When Jesus words are written down and Satan is using them, then the bible becomes the word of Satan.
Constantine (1st) beast compiled 50 bibles, legalized Christianity and set up the false prophet (pope).
King James (2nd) beast, born 6/1566, 6th of Scotland, authorized a bible in 1611 that now has 66 books to control people with, an image of God's word they make to speak (the bible says).
By having faith in the bible which has been made into an idol, they break the new covenant of having faith in the Living Christ through the Holy Spirit, who is the true word of God.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Ask Jesus -Yeshua for the Holy Spirit.
Link To Blog Site Book:
Book 1 THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
bibleismarkofbeast.blogspot.co...
BOOK 2 THE BIBLE IS AN IDOL
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RUclips Channel:
ruclips.net/user/BIBLEisMARKofBEASTvideos
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How do you know Jesus rose from the dead?
False religion you are entangled in. The Bible is the Word of God. You are not our authority, Christ the eternal Word and also His infallible written word are.
Right off the bat, I think his assessment that there is only one king is flawed. The clear teaching of scripture is that there is a kingdom of this world, and a heavenly kingdom. The ruler of this world is Satan, to whom has been given dominion over all the sinful kingdoms of this world. If it wasn’t, how could he have offered it to Jesus in the wilderness?
Ephesians 2:2
Matthew 12:25-26
2 Corinthians 4:4
@@stevemateuszow God has decreed that Satan is in control of the kingdoms of this world. God gave Satan dominion over the kingdoms of the world. Doesn’t mean that we should participate in them and reap their destruction upon ourselves.
@@stevemateuszow Blessings as well Steve!
Didn't Jesus say in Matthew 28:18 that ALL authority had been given to Him (from the Father)? That seems to indicate that He is the Sovereign King and the devil only does his bidding as a subject in his Kingdom. Plenty of other scriptures that tell us the Christ is King over all creation and is reigning over all NOW because He is seated at the right hand of God the Father on His throne.