Hello. Well done on your review. Thanks. I have a p320rx and the story I’m telling myself is that a 3 MOA makes more sense than a 6 MOA because whether it’s 3 or 6 I am going to see the dot anyway, and with the 3 MOA I can accurately hit what I want at 25 yards because of the smaller dot not obstructing the point I am aiming at on the target, and at closer range increasing the brightness of the 3 MOA will allow me to get on target as quick as a 6 MOA dot. Now I’m not an expert, so please forgive my ignorance if I stand corrected. It’s just the story I’m telling myself about why I prefer 3 MOA more than 6 MOA.
I went with the viper for $179. I am unable to co witness since the plate replaces my rear sights. I was stuck on trijicon, but the price wooed me. I like the way I can ramp up/down the brightness, as it makes the dot “look” bigger for closer less precise shooting, while the lighter setting “looks” smaller for range target precise shooting. I think it’s a perfect entry level one for me. Time will tell. Thanks for the video! 😃
Own both for two different guns. I use the Viper on my Glock 17 MOS and the Venom on my Springfield XD(M) OSP. Had a problem with the Viper after about 750 rounds. Sent it back to Vortex and I received a brand new (complete) optic in eight days. Best customer service!
That's great to hear about the customer service Jeffrey! Glad to hear they sorted it out for you. Sounds like you have a great setup with both guns. Cheers!
I have had a Vortex Venom on my Glock 17 MOS for about a year. My eyesight is not what it used to be as I'm almost 50. The red dot provides me that freedom to shoot accurately again without wearing prescription glasses which distort my focus on objects farther away. Very happy with the setup and I've had zero issues with the Venom.
FINALLY, a video that helps me figure out the missing info for co-witnessing. Thanks... very well done. Just bought the Viper and will put it on a Ruger Mark IV lite.
I have a Venom on my TP9SFX. I always had the impression the Viper was a little more quirky, but ultimately superior. I made the right choice with the Venom. Thanks for the review.
I've been shooting my 6moa Venom for almost a year on my Glock 19, probably just short of 5'000 rounds. My only complaint is that the battery cap needs to be tightened around every 500 round. You'll notice when it starts turning off every 5 shot, just tighten the battery cap. I've just now bought a 3moa Venom and I must say that I like it much better. The dot is much crisper, just as bright but in a deeper red color. I now have my 6moa on my gen4 Glock 19MOS, my 3moa on my gen5 Glock 17MOS and I'm thinking about buying another 3moa for my Ruger 10/22 IPSC Minirifle.
Good review! I chose the Viper for a Glock 22, simply because I picked it up for $170. The Venom right next to it was $240. I tried using the G-22 in iron sight configuration, in a speed steel competition. I'm going to use the Viper in the next shoot just to see how I like it. My mounting method is the dove tail plate on top of the slide. I don't want to mill & tap my stock slide. All in all, it was a fairly economical way to "try" a reflex sight. If I don't care for it, no harm, no foul. I can remove it with no permanent disfigurement to my Glock. Again, solid review. Thanks.
The Viper on the dove tail plate went over like a turd in a punch bowl. With no iron sights, I found myself "wobbling", looking for the dot (even after lots of practice). That don't make for good shooting times... at all. Even if they're not co-witnessed, iron sights (suppressor height) are a must, for me personally, when it comes to timed shooting. I picked up an extra slide on the cheap, so I'm going to have it milled to accept a Venom. And it WILL have suppressor height sights! Back to the drawing board.
That is a good point about the Venom the battery is on the top I was thinking of getting the Viper but as you said I wouldn't want to have to keep taken it off every time I need to replace the battery.
Great review, you helped me pick my optic, I've decided to go with the venom because of the points that you made regarding the battery compartment and field of view.
I went to the range today, still cold and wet out! Anyway, I walked in, ready to purchase a vortex. I really didn't know the difference, they were both the same price, I asked the guy what he'd recommend, I came home with the viper. Now I see your video lmao. All good. It's going or went, on a ruger, mark4 22/45. Has big rail, so it just sets nicely. The lock screws are what sold me, I thought maybe it would help hold center maybe? But never thought about rear sight in my way, my rear sight is out of the way however so I'm good. Battery, well, it bolts down to the back plate, not the gun, if that makes since. So not too big a deal, 2 screws, done. Probably once a year. I don't carry it. Can't wait to try out! Great review!
Great video, put my mind at ease. I just purchased the venom from a reputable seller. I also purchased a trijicon site to mount onto my glock 27 dovetail. I didn't want to cut into my slide. Thanks for your help.
For most people - Number one (1) reason to pick a type of handgun sight to use: *Price* Number two (2) reason to pick a type of handgun sight to use: *Your shooting experience* PRICES, RED DOTS Price range *$150-$300 USD* for the "cheap" usable red dot sight. The hi-end red dot sight for pistol shooters range *$500 - $1000 USD.* PRICE FIXED IRON SIGHTS Price range *$0-$100 USD* for the stock sights to factory night sights. The best fixed night sights for pistol shooters is *$45 - $185 USD.* *Note:* I am talking to CCWers & beginners to intermediate shooters NOT competition pistol shooters. So the best reason to go with fixed night sights is *cost.* The gun industry wants you to go with *red dots* of course (more money). THE POSSIBLE PROBLEMS Red-Dot's problems that the *marketers don't talk about* as compared to or vs fixed-sights: - larger size & heavier weight issue for CCW, - speed of use/finding the red dot in the optic/many Red-Dot sights are slower than iron sights _during stress_ - snagging issues, - malfunctions, - fogging - durability, - batteries, - low light use, - training, need more etc. are also serious things to consider. *NOTE:* Most gun trainers say red-dot sights are not for the novice shooter at all. Before trying/using red-dot sights the novice to intermediate shooter should learn how to shoot with iron sights 1st like a pro, again do this before even thinking of using a glass optic on a pistol.
I subscribed because you showed the view through the sight. For what ever reason that's not common. Very informative with good passing. I didn't even know the venom was top loading its battery. Thanks man
Agreed. I know this is a few years old, but I went with the Venom as well, in large part because of the ability to swap the battery without having to remove the optic, and then re-zero it.
Here's what I love about you. You review things that I like, you always say they're both good but you always, without exceotion, choose the one that I don't like. We're like reverse dopplegangers. The antithesis of my aesthetic and ergonomic preferences.
I appreciate the compare/contrast you've done between these two optics. I'm just now becoming willing to adopt pistol red dots, and trying out affordable yet damn good Vortex optics lets me see how it fits my needs w/o draining the bank. Thank you.
I run optics on all my guns. It has vastly increased my pistol speed. The red dot optic is the future of pistols. Once I tried on I was sold. You just gotta get through that 30 min learning curve.
Great review..... I just bought a Vortex Venom to go on a Glock 17 MOS I bought from my co-worker and on recommendation from another friend who shoots competitively.
You made a terrible mistake at 07:38, talking about the torque, recommending 10 to 12 "foot-pounds". Of course it needs to be "10 to 12 "inch-pounds", otherwise you will immediately strip the screws...
Thanks for your response. No problem at all. We all make mistakes. Anyway, I like your video; good information and nice making. Well done! Keep on with your good work!
Thank you for doing a review on these two red dots because I happen to be looking at these two for comparison. I'm really not sure which one I would like, so thank you for doing such a detailed review!
I have the vortex venom and I use it on my Canik TP9SFX. I also have a SIG Romeo1 on my SIG P320 compact with the pro slide on the Wilson Combat grip module co-witnessed with Ameriglo suppressor height sights. To me, the venom is the better red dot because you get more settings, the controls are better and it was nearly $100 cheaper.
I have a viper on a 25 as well. Since the gun doesn’t allow for a rear sight install I really wish the optic had something milled in. Either a notch or two raised blades on the rear of the base would’ve made this so much better for me.
Very good video on the venom and viper.I have a viper and if you hold the right button the down button for about five seconds the dot shuts off so mine is not on for 14 hours wasting the battery for no reason
Thoroughly enjoyed this review of both Vortex red dots covered here. Decided to order a Venom based on your and a few others review of same.Using their on line site code of RED30 gets you a 30% discount thru Oct 8 2017 at Optics Planet on either one. That makes this red dot a really great buy at around $160.00 with free shipping. Now, that's a deal considering some used ones are going for more than that on some of the on line auction sites. Thks again for your take on these two particular red dots.
That’s awesome Mike! I’m glad the video helped you out and you won’t be disappointed. The Venom is top notch... probably the best red dot out there considering the price. Thank you and cheers!
Fantastic comparison, thank you! One thing I like about the Venom that no one ever talks about is that it has two white lines on the back of it (where the adjustment locks are on the Viper). In your video the lines are covered up by the rear sight on your Glock. If you remove the rear sight like I do, the lines provide a nice reference where as you can still kind of co-witness the lines with the front site. Of course the lines don't stick up at all into the view and they may not be entirety accurate, but I can shoot pretty well using them to line up the front sight even with the red dot off.
Great video KS, but I'd also like to note that you should mention 1/3 cowitness as well as the other two you mentioned (no cowitness and "true" or "absolute" cowitness). I personally run a Vortex Razor on my 10mm g20sf longslide and it is massive, it barely 1/3 cowitnesses with the trijicon suppressor height sights that I got to go with it, and I had to have the rear drilled through to access the lock screw of the Razor optic. It's also the model with the slide out battery tray but it is definitely too large for smaller pistols (anything smaller than 45acp/10mm it is not good for). I went with 1/3 cowitness since it offers an unintruded view like non-cowitness, but also offers back up iron-sights in case your optic fails.
I have the Vortex Venom on my Glock 41 MOS. I haven't co-witnessed my it yet still with the standard front sight and it's standard adjustable site. I tried a friends Venom that was co-witnessed and the tall front site kinda distracted me. Getting back to mine, after sighting the Vortex in I'm fairly dead on provided you keep the site up to eye level and some trial and error. Love the Vortex especially with it's lifetime warranty.
That's awesome Keanon! I love the glock 41. Sweet shooter and I bet it's awesome with the Venom on it. Depending on its purpose, there may not be a need to co-witness and you make a great point about the distraction of the tall sights. I'm still on the fence about it but since I don't carry with a red dot, it'll do. Thanks for watching and cheers brother!
There is a learning curve involved, but once you've got the muscle memory (it took me 1K presentations about) the distinction between precision and accuracy gets smaller and smaller, especially if you've got 52 year-old eye issues like I do.
Thank you for a great comparison! I've had my Venom on my p320 subcompact for about a year now EDC and it's run excellent. It's profile is perfect for the smaller gun, and having the top access to battery comes in handy--however one has to make sure that the cover is very tight! Regarding battery life, I actually change batteries every month due to the medium illumination setting I keep it as I carry during daytime. Since I carry appendix, the red dot does get banged up a bit, but it doesn't seem to affect reliability and I'm not worried much about wear marks on my carry pistol. Dings can be easily hidden with a black paint pen, though. I was considering on trying out the Viper for my G30S, but because of your review will probably stay with Venom or try out that British-made Shield RDS. Maybe you'll be doing a review of that soon too?
Thanks for the comment and thoughts! That's a great setup with the P320. Good to hear about real world battery life! As for the Shield, I am trying to get a hold of one. We shall see! Cheers
That would be great when you get the Shield--I've been considering this optic vs. another Venom. BTW, are you in KC--I grew up there not far from Olathe? Take care!
SO GLAD I found this video. Thank you. Questions: I have a glock 19 (NOT the MOS) and want to know if I use the Venom, will the Trijicon suppressor sight work well with a co-witness? Next, I was told by a gunsmith that many people will machine a customer's glock without telling them that the frame is not long enough for the Venom and therefore they will milled VERRRRY close to the drop safety chamber which later can cause reliability issues. So they suggested moving the optic back and placing the rear sights in front of the optic. Have you heard of this being an issue before? Thanks so much.
+32icon thank you very much for the comments and questions! The highest trijicons might work but make sure they are at lease .395 tall. If they are shorter, they may not co-witness well enough. As for the slide cutting, I really don't know and I don't want to tell you the wrong thing since it would be permanent. I would suggest looking into a MOS since it's cut and you can add basically any optic. It may save you money in the long run and the ability to sell it down the road if you have to will be much easier. I've seen custom worked Glocks sit for months and months with no buyers. That said, putting the rear sight ahead of the optic is an option and I know some prefer that. Not sure I've helped but good luck with the build regardless and keep me posted! Cheers!
Love your page and really love how you offer great insight and respond to your viewers! Top notch! Thank you for the advice and perhaps it might be best to get an MOS down the line then I'd know for sure that it'll be a simple process. Thanks again!
Another option you might look into - you might be able to purchase aftermarket slide that is already cut for a RDS, and that would prevent you from permanently modifying your OEM slide.
Just found your channel when I was looking at a comparison for red-dots sights for pistols. Excellent review of the Vortex red-dots. I was wondering what you thought about 3 versus 6 moa. I'm about to pull the trigger on Vortex red-dot but cannot decide between the two moa options. I'll be shooting mostly 25 yards or less at steel targets with the occasional 50-yard distance. Any recommendation?
Thank you very much John! As for the MOA, it's all about the purpose for the optic. IF you are stretching out to 25 or more yards, go with a 3 MOA or smaller. 6 MOA will cover up the target past 20 or 25 yards. Thank you and cheers!
Nice information! Was they to decide on a red dot for my M&P CORE 5 inch and had been looking at both of these vortex models. I have a trijicon rmr for my M&P 9c carry pistol but couldn't really justify that price for my full size which is more of a range gun so these fit more into that budget. Nice content, you have a new subscriber from Kansas :)
Thanks Rotor! That makes sense from a competition standpoint for sure. I shoot with both eyes open but for some reason, I just prefer looking through the Venom. Maybe because I am getting older? Who knows... Cheers brother!
I have the venom on my Ruger Mark IV, it shoots excellent at 25 yards , I definitely want to take it to a different range to see how much further out it can reach.
Good video. Unfortunately, I saw it too late. :-) I picked up a Viper on an impulse purchase for my FNX45. It co-witnesses those sights, but the battery being under the unit (have to remove to change the battery) is a really poor design. If it weren't for that, the Viper would be hard to beat for the money.
It looks like you have some gaps in the baseplate area on the glock mos. Was it a good match? Also the Wheeler torque wrench measures in inch/lbs not foot/lbs..
Thanks for the comment and feedback! As for the Wheeler wrench, you are exactly right... the camera catches all mistakes sadly. For the baseplates, I haven't had any issues though I see what you are talking about. Thank you and cheers!
I'm sorry i havent searched yet but have you compared the venom with the razor? I have owned 5 different RMRs and i currently own 3 dual illuminated 3moa. CZC now makes a single dovetail mount that covers most optics. In the past, their mounts was everything else or RMR. So I have been restricted to only use RMR's. With the new mount, I'm free to choose whatever i like!
Bought the fnx45t at the end of last year with the rebate for vortex venom. Was really excited, and just got a letter in the mail stating they no longer have venoms available and will be sending a viper... in April... a bit disappointed.
Very nice video man! Lots of useful detail and explanations Watching this comparison vid makes it seem like the Viper was very poorly designed. Battery compartment underneath the sight? Adjustment locks placed where they would be blocked by a rear sight? I don't know if there is a Gen II Viper Red Dot, but if not Vortex should just scrap this design and sell just the Venom.
Thanks for the comment and thoughts! I can't say I disagree. I understand why they did it... to offer a smaller profile red dot, but agree that the design needs some serious refining. Cheers!
I bought a vortex venom for my Glock 43. I am going to mount it in rear sight slot. What company or companies make a rmsc mount. Appreciate your help in my inquiry. Thank you
I'm installing a rail on my Ruger Super Redhawk for deer hunting. Not picked a Red Dot yet but have shot the Trijicon and like it. Thoughts on mounting on a .44 Mag? Good video, been a Vortex user for scopes for a long time.
I have done some research and agree with your comments that the Venom with 6MOA maybe just a little better for my liking. I am not co-witnessing. I am looking for a comparison of the Venom/Viper with the Leupold Deltapoint Pro. I am shooting a CZ75 SP01 Tactical. The Leupold is a bit more pricy but I can do that better than the Truijicon RMR. So I am wondering if you have any comments on the Vortex products compared to Leupold. Thanks Dave G
Thank you for the comments and the question David! Sadly, I only have experience with the 2 Vortex sights and the Burris Fast Fire III. Of those, I prefer the Venom the most, although all will do the job. I do hear good things abut the Leupold, however. Cheers!
In your experience whats the minimum height (front/rear sight) of co-witness backup sights to not cover up the glass as much and still be able to get a sight picture? Venom + Glock MOS
I must be dense or something but the field of view looked dramatically bigger in the Viper over the Venom but you said it was the reverse. What am I missing?
thanks for the feed back do you also have a video on the install on the vortex Vermon with the glockenspiel Mos using those screws you provided on the link thanks so much
I don't have a specific video on the installation. It should be reasonably self explanatory once you get started. If you are using those screws, you should be in great shape. Cheers!
KSGunGuy...... Thanks for the video. I would like your thoughts on the durability of Vortex Optics. I was talking with a staff member at my local FFL and indoor range location. It was regarding competition shooting with the Viper mounted on the Canik TP9SFX. His feedback was to get the Trijicon optic from a durability standpoint . Is he correct or was he just trying to "suggest" I go with the TP9SFX without the optic included. I am a Canik Fanatic, and can't imagine why that would package their competition model with a Vortex Viper if the optic is not a good "durable" product. As far as the battery placement on the optic, I would be concerned with the Venom battery cover coming lose and having them come flying off. It is a possibility if you don't tighten the cap down.
Hey! great video.. i hope you see and maybe answer my question. So if i get the viper for 120 bucks against the venom, which is running for 240 (as of right now).. is there that much of a winning edge to drop the extra 120 bucks for the venom? (Ps: I have a non MOS g19 with a mounting plate)
You are very knowledgeable about these sights. I want to run a Venom on a CZ Scorpion Evo 3 S1 with a lower 1/3 co-witness. Any suggestions on type of mount if any needed to accomplish this?
Near the beginning of video the text references the Venom mounted on a Canik TP9SFX. Could you elaborate on that setup please? Stock sights on the Canik? Venom well above the stock sights? i.e. no co-witnessing? Thanks.
Both the venom and the viper sit above the sights on the TP9SFX so there is no co-witnessing. They were stock sights for the testing. Thank you for the questions and cheers!
Hey thanks brother. I watched your video and a few others on the venom. And decided to try one out. It’s my first pistol dot sight and I think I’m gonna like it. I’ve got to remember to look at the target instead of the dot but I think once I get passed that it’s gonna be a lot of fun. One stupid question though. Would I be right in assuming that when its on auto mode and in my holster with a shirt over it that it’s on the brightest setting. Not that I think I’ll ever use the auto setting. It’s pretty bright even on the lowest setting it’s still bright enough to see when looking at a lamp shade.
Would you use a Vortex for an EDC firearm or limit it to a range gun? I never had much luck with their viper series rifle scopes, ordered a delta point pro today,, I've known leupold for 30 years
Thanks Lane! I personally would not use a red dot for EDC but there are many that do. Delta Points are very nice from what I hear. Keep me posted on it! Cheers
Very good comparison as good info...I don't have any personal use with em but love the vid....Good stuff...
Thank you very much Scott! Always a pleasure brother!
I have the viper and I'm happy with it
Hello. Well done on your review. Thanks.
I have a p320rx and the story I’m telling myself is that a 3 MOA makes more sense than a 6 MOA because whether it’s 3 or 6 I am going to see the dot anyway, and with the 3 MOA I can accurately hit what I want at 25 yards because of the smaller dot not obstructing the point I am aiming at on the target, and at closer range increasing the brightness of the 3 MOA will allow me to get on target as quick as a 6 MOA dot.
Now I’m not an expert, so please forgive my ignorance if I stand corrected. It’s just the story I’m telling myself about why I prefer 3 MOA more than 6 MOA.
I went with the viper for $179. I am unable to co witness since the plate replaces my rear sights.
I was stuck on trijicon, but the price wooed me. I like the way I can ramp up/down the brightness, as it makes the dot “look” bigger for closer less precise shooting, while the lighter setting “looks” smaller for range target precise shooting. I think it’s a perfect entry level one for me. Time will tell. Thanks for the video! 😃
That’s awesome and congrats on the Viper! It’s a great red dot for sure. Thank you and cheers!
Own both for two different guns. I use the Viper on my Glock 17 MOS and the Venom on my Springfield XD(M) OSP. Had a problem with the Viper after about 750 rounds. Sent it back to Vortex and I received a brand new (complete) optic in eight days. Best customer service!
That's great to hear about the customer service Jeffrey! Glad to hear they sorted it out for you. Sounds like you have a great setup with both guns. Cheers!
I have had a Vortex Venom on my Glock 17 MOS for about a year. My eyesight is not what it used to be as I'm almost 50. The red dot provides me that freedom to shoot accurately again without wearing prescription glasses which distort my focus on objects farther away. Very happy with the setup and I've had zero issues with the Venom.
That's awesome BigA! I'm glad it's giving you that flexibility and making it easier to acquire the targets. It's an excellent red dot indeed. Cheers!
FINALLY, a video that helps me figure out the missing info for co-witnessing. Thanks... very well done. Just bought the Viper and will put it on a Ruger Mark IV lite.
Glad it could help! Thank you and cheers!
I have a Venom on my TP9SFX. I always had the impression the Viper was a little more quirky, but ultimately superior. I made the right choice with the Venom. Thanks for the review.
I still use the Venom and love it! Thank you and cheers!
I've been shooting my 6moa Venom for almost a year on my Glock 19, probably just short of 5'000 rounds. My only complaint is that the battery cap needs to be tightened around every 500 round. You'll notice when it starts turning off every 5 shot, just tighten the battery cap. I've just now bought a 3moa Venom and I must say that I like it much better. The dot is much crisper, just as bright but in a deeper red color. I now have my 6moa on my gen4 Glock 19MOS, my 3moa on my gen5 Glock 17MOS and I'm thinking about buying another 3moa for my Ruger 10/22 IPSC Minirifle.
Great vid. I stopped at the battery replacement comments. Venom top cover access - sold.
Good review! I chose the Viper for a Glock 22, simply because I picked it up for $170. The Venom right next to it was $240. I tried using the G-22 in iron sight configuration, in a speed steel competition. I'm going to use the Viper in the next shoot just to see how I like it. My mounting method is the dove tail plate on top of the slide. I don't want to mill & tap my stock slide. All in all, it was a fairly economical way to "try" a reflex sight. If I don't care for it, no harm, no foul. I can remove it with no permanent disfigurement to my Glock. Again, solid review. Thanks.
Thank you very much! That's a great solution on mounting and I've heard great things about that method. Thank you for sharing and cheers!
The Viper on the dove tail plate went over like a turd in a punch bowl. With no iron sights, I found myself "wobbling", looking for the dot (even after lots of practice). That don't make for good shooting times... at all. Even if they're not co-witnessed, iron sights (suppressor height) are a must, for me personally, when it comes to timed shooting. I picked up an extra slide on the cheap, so I'm going to have it milled to accept a Venom. And it WILL have suppressor height sights! Back to the drawing board.
That is a good point about the Venom the battery is on the top I was thinking of getting the Viper but as you said I wouldn't want to have to keep taken it off every time I need to replace the battery.
Great review, you helped me pick my optic, I've decided to go with the venom because of the points that you made regarding the battery compartment and field of view.
That's awesome and congrats Roger! I think you'll be very happy with your choice. Thank you very much and cheers!
I went to the range today, still cold and wet out! Anyway, I walked in, ready to purchase a vortex. I really didn't know the difference, they were both the same price, I asked the guy what he'd recommend, I came home with the viper.
Now I see your video lmao. All good.
It's going or went, on a ruger, mark4 22/45. Has big rail, so it just sets nicely.
The lock screws are what sold me, I thought maybe it would help hold center maybe? But never thought about rear sight in my way, my rear sight is out of the way however so I'm good.
Battery, well, it bolts down to the back plate, not the gun, if that makes since.
So not too big a deal, 2 screws, done.
Probably once a year. I don't carry it.
Can't wait to try out!
Great review!
Great video, put my mind at ease. I just purchased the venom from a reputable seller. I also purchased a trijicon site to mount onto my glock 27 dovetail. I didn't want to cut into my slide. Thanks for your help.
I think you’ll really like the Venom. It’s an awesome optic. Cheers!
For most people -
Number one (1) reason to pick a type of handgun sight to use: *Price*
Number two (2) reason to pick a type of handgun sight to use: *Your shooting experience*
PRICES, RED DOTS
Price range *$150-$300 USD* for the "cheap" usable red dot sight.
The hi-end red dot sight for pistol shooters range *$500 - $1000 USD.*
PRICE FIXED IRON SIGHTS
Price range *$0-$100 USD* for the stock sights to factory night sights.
The best fixed night sights for pistol shooters is *$45 - $185 USD.*
*Note:* I am talking to CCWers & beginners to intermediate shooters NOT competition pistol shooters.
So the best reason to go with fixed night sights is *cost.*
The gun industry wants you to go with *red dots* of course (more money).
THE POSSIBLE PROBLEMS
Red-Dot's problems that the *marketers don't talk about* as compared to or vs fixed-sights:
- larger size & heavier weight issue for CCW,
- speed of use/finding the red dot in the optic/many Red-Dot sights are slower than iron sights _during stress_
- snagging issues,
- malfunctions,
- fogging
- durability,
- batteries,
- low light use,
- training, need more
etc. are also serious things to consider.
*NOTE:* Most gun trainers say red-dot sights are not for the novice shooter at all.
Before trying/using red-dot sights the novice to intermediate shooter should learn how to shoot with iron sights 1st like a pro,
again do this before even thinking of using a glass optic on a pistol.
I subscribed because you showed the view through the sight. For what ever reason that's not common. Very informative with good passing. I didn't even know the venom was top loading its battery. Thanks man
Thank you for subbing! Glad you got some info you needed on the Venom. I still love mine and have it on the TP9SFX right now. Thank you and cheers!
Very good review. was battling between these 2 after I dismissed the Burris. Will buy soon for my S&W M&P 2.0 Compact. Thanks again.
Thank you very much! Cheers!
Venom is the way to go. Top load battery, no funky set screws.
Well said Bill! I prefer the Venom as well. Thank you and cheers!
I have a Venom, love it
Agreed. I know this is a few years old, but I went with the Venom as well, in large part because of the ability to swap the battery without having to remove the optic, and then re-zero it.
I just put a Venom on my Canik TP9 SFX. Love it so far. Thank for the video.
I have a tp9sfx canik which do u prefer viper or venom
@@jamieevans2666 I have the Venom. And so far so good.
Here's what I love about you. You review things that I like, you always say they're both good but you always, without exceotion, choose the one that I don't like. We're like reverse dopplegangers. The antithesis of my aesthetic and ergonomic preferences.
Opposites attract? Thank you and cheers Markus!
I appreciate the compare/contrast you've done between these two optics. I'm just now becoming willing to adopt pistol red dots, and trying out affordable yet damn good Vortex optics lets me see how it fits my needs w/o draining the bank.
Thank you.
I run optics on all my guns. It has vastly increased my pistol speed. The red dot optic is the future of pistols. Once I tried on I was sold. You just gotta get through that 30 min learning curve.
I do agree that there is a learning curve with red dots. That said, they definitely are becoming the next evolution of carry. Thank you and cheers!
Great review..... I just bought a Vortex Venom to go on a Glock 17 MOS I bought from my co-worker and on recommendation from another friend who shoots competitively.
That's awesome! It's a great red dot for sure. Thank you and cheers!
You made a terrible mistake at 07:38, talking about the torque, recommending 10 to 12 "foot-pounds". Of course it needs to be "10 to 12 "inch-pounds", otherwise you will immediately strip the screws...
Thank you for the feedback Andy! You are absolutely correct. It's the curse of being on video. The camera catches everything. Thanks again and cheers!
Thanks for your response. No problem at all. We all make mistakes. Anyway, I like your video; good information and nice making. Well done! Keep on with your good work!
Thanks again Andy! I appreciate you brother!
Andy R. Wouldn't 10-12 foot lbs be less than 10-12 inch pounds in pressure?
1 foot pound is a lot more than 1 inch pound
Thank you for doing a review on these two red dots because I happen to be looking at these two for comparison. I'm really not sure which one I would like, so thank you for doing such a detailed review!
My pleasure! Thank you and cheers!
Just ordered a venom, thanks to you!!
That's awesome! Congratulations and I know you will love it. Cheers!
KSGunGuy 01 just got it! Can't wait to install it on my sp01.
Sweet! That will be awesome. Can't wait to hear how it performs!
KSGunGuy 01 will try it this Sunday.
I have the vortex venom and I use it on my Canik TP9SFX. I also have a SIG Romeo1 on my SIG P320 compact with the pro slide on the Wilson Combat grip module co-witnessed with Ameriglo suppressor height sights. To me, the venom is the better red dot because you get more settings, the controls are better and it was nearly $100 cheaper.
I have a viper on a 25 as well. Since the gun doesn’t allow for a rear sight install I really wish the optic had something milled in. Either a notch or two raised blades on the rear of the base would’ve made this so much better for me.
Very good video on the venom and viper.I have a viper and if you hold the right button the down button for about five seconds the dot shuts off so mine is not on for 14 hours wasting the battery for no reason
Thank you very much! I too shut mine off when not in use. Cheers!
Lone Wolf advertises a suppressor sight with holes drilled in the back so that you can access the lock screws.
That sounds like a great option Randy! Thank you for sharing. Cheers!
Thx for explaining the difference between the two!
My pleasure! Thank you and cheers!
Didn't know that I "needed" one of these... Until now! 🤣
Awesome! Thank you and cheers!
Thoroughly enjoyed this review of both Vortex red dots covered here. Decided to order a Venom based on your and a few others review of same.Using their on line site code of RED30 gets you a 30% discount thru Oct 8 2017 at Optics Planet on either one. That makes this red dot a really great buy at around $160.00 with free shipping. Now, that's a deal considering some used ones are going for more than that on some of the on line auction sites. Thks again for your take on these two particular red dots.
That’s awesome Mike! I’m glad the video helped you out and you won’t be disappointed. The Venom is top notch... probably the best red dot out there considering the price. Thank you and cheers!
Great video! Very In depth comparison. I just picked up the Q5 Match, and the Vortex Venom. Great match for me. You just picked up a new subscriber.
Found you on accident love your in depth video on both RDS I'm looking to get the Venom for my G19 build. Thanks for the video new sub
UrbanlSix1Niner thank you very much! That's awesome about the build and I think you'll love the Venom. Keep me posted! Cheers
Fantastic comparison, thank you! One thing I like about the Venom that no one ever talks about is that it has two white lines on the back of it (where the adjustment locks are on the Viper). In your video the lines are covered up by the rear sight on your Glock. If you remove the rear sight like I do, the lines provide a nice reference where as you can still kind of co-witness the lines with the front site. Of course the lines don't stick up at all into the view and they may not be entirety accurate, but I can shoot pretty well using them to line up the front sight even with the red dot off.
You are 100% correct John. I didn’t find them as helpful as I would have liked but they are there and better than nothing! Thank you and cheers!
Great video KS, but I'd also like to note that you should mention 1/3 cowitness as well as the other two you mentioned (no cowitness and "true" or "absolute" cowitness). I personally run a Vortex Razor on my 10mm g20sf longslide and it is massive, it barely 1/3 cowitnesses with the trijicon suppressor height sights that I got to go with it, and I had to have the rear drilled through to access the lock screw of the Razor optic. It's also the model with the slide out battery tray but it is definitely too large for smaller pistols (anything smaller than 45acp/10mm it is not good for).
I went with 1/3 cowitness since it offers an unintruded view like non-cowitness, but also offers back up iron-sights in case your optic fails.
That sounds like quite a setup and you are exactly right! Thank you for the reminder. Cheers Alexander!
Insightful video as always! Those Glock front suppressor sights look like they could flip pancakes, but they get the job done!
Haha! Comment of the day. Too funny and yes... they can! Thanks and cheers as always Christen!
I have the Vortex Venom on my Glock 41 MOS. I haven't co-witnessed my it yet still with the standard front sight and it's standard adjustable site. I tried a friends Venom that was co-witnessed and the tall front site kinda distracted me. Getting back to mine, after sighting the Vortex in I'm fairly dead on provided you keep the site up to eye level and some trial and error. Love the Vortex especially with it's lifetime warranty.
That's awesome Keanon! I love the glock 41. Sweet shooter and I bet it's awesome with the Venom on it. Depending on its purpose, there may not be a need to co-witness and you make a great point about the distraction of the tall sights. I'm still on the fence about it but since I don't carry with a red dot, it'll do. Thanks for watching and cheers brother!
Not sure if I would use one on a carry gun. Not much experience with them. Great review.
Thanks L4W! Yeah, not a carry option for me either but they are becoming more popular for that purpose. Cheers brother!
There is a learning curve involved, but once you've got the muscle memory (it took me 1K presentations about) the distinction between precision and accuracy gets smaller and smaller, especially if you've got 52 year-old eye issues like I do.
@@herbvergara1 yeah I mean I'm 17 and shoot with my father but going between irons vs rmr/red dot is hard.
My Vortex Venom came with a Canik TP9SFx that's fitted with a 45 Blast compensator, as well as an upgraded Fat Daddy trigger. 😎
Thank you for a great comparison! I've had my Venom on my p320 subcompact for about a year now EDC and it's run excellent. It's profile is perfect for the smaller gun, and having the top access to battery comes in handy--however one has to make sure that the cover is very tight! Regarding battery life, I actually change batteries every month due to the medium illumination setting I keep it as I carry during daytime. Since I carry appendix, the red dot does get banged up a bit, but it doesn't seem to affect reliability and I'm not worried much about wear marks on my carry pistol. Dings can be easily hidden with a black paint pen, though. I was considering on trying out the Viper for my G30S, but because of your review will probably stay with Venom or try out that British-made Shield RDS. Maybe you'll be doing a review of that soon too?
Thanks for the comment and thoughts! That's a great setup with the P320. Good to hear about real world battery life! As for the Shield, I am trying to get a hold of one. We shall see! Cheers
That would be great when you get the Shield--I've been considering this optic vs. another Venom. BTW, are you in KC--I grew up there not far from Olathe? Take care!
Yea I noticed the battery life kinda sucks it’s not 30000 hours it’s 3000 hours of battery life vortex just updated the venoms print
Q5 Match with a Venom, is straight money! IMO!! Didn't see that link for the screws though...
Good comparison. I have never got used to optics. However the USPSA open gun guys fly with them.
Thanks G17! It's a different operation for sure. I am still trying to get used to it but it's a ton of fun! Cheers brother!
I bet. I am just to cheap to get into them.
Nothing beats iron sights my friend. Cheers!
KSGunGuy 01 I agree.
SO GLAD I found this video. Thank you. Questions: I have a glock 19 (NOT the MOS) and want to know if I use the Venom, will the Trijicon suppressor sight work well with a co-witness? Next, I was told by a gunsmith that many people will machine a customer's glock without telling them that the frame is not long enough for the Venom and therefore they will milled VERRRRY close to the drop safety chamber which later can cause reliability issues. So they suggested moving the optic back and placing the rear sights in front of the optic. Have you heard of this being an issue before? Thanks so much.
+32icon thank you very much for the comments and questions! The highest trijicons might work but make sure they are at lease .395 tall. If they are shorter, they may not co-witness well enough. As for the slide cutting, I really don't know and I don't want to tell you the wrong thing since it would be permanent. I would suggest looking into a MOS since it's cut and you can add basically any optic. It may save you money in the long run and the ability to sell it down the road if you have to will be much easier. I've seen custom worked Glocks sit for months and months with no buyers. That said, putting the rear sight ahead of the optic is an option and I know some prefer that. Not sure I've helped but good luck with the build regardless and keep me posted! Cheers!
Love your page and really love how you offer great insight and respond to your viewers! Top notch! Thank you for the advice and perhaps it might be best to get an MOS down the line then I'd know for sure that it'll be a simple process. Thanks again!
+32icon thank you again and that means a lot! Glad to help and I hope it works out for you!
Another option you might look into - you might be able to purchase aftermarket slide that is already cut for a RDS, and that would prevent you from permanently modifying your OEM slide.
Ryan Simpson Wow! I didn't know I could do that. Thanks for the tip!!
I got a Glock 34 4gen. I'm going to go with the Viper. Awesome video though and both red dots are nice.
Just found your channel when I was looking at a comparison for red-dots sights for pistols. Excellent review of the Vortex red-dots. I was wondering what you thought about 3 versus 6 moa. I'm about to pull the trigger on Vortex red-dot but cannot decide between the two moa options. I'll be shooting mostly 25 yards or less at steel targets with the occasional 50-yard distance. Any recommendation?
Thank you very much John! As for the MOA, it's all about the purpose for the optic. IF you are stretching out to 25 or more yards, go with a 3 MOA or smaller. 6 MOA will cover up the target past 20 or 25 yards. Thank you and cheers!
Thank you. I think I'll go with the 3 moa Venom. I think it mounts onto the Docter sight plate.
I have a 3 MOA Viper. I like the pin point aiming mark. I don't like taking it off to change battery. I do that about once a year.
Thanks for the video. I have a vortex venom on my PS90 and love that field of view. Going to probably be getting one for my Glock 19 Gen 4.
That's awesome Jonathan! I agree, the Venom is fantastic. It's still going strong! Thank you and cheers brother
Nice information! Was they to decide on a red dot for my M&P CORE 5 inch and had been looking at both of these vortex models. I have a trijicon rmr for my M&P 9c carry pistol but couldn't really justify that price for my full size which is more of a range gun so these fit more into that budget. Nice content, you have a new subscriber from Kansas :)
Thank you very much fellow Kansan! I think either one of these would be great and the price is right. Cheers!
Those both look like very nice red dots, I need to get something for my Q5 as well.
Nice Fu! I'd recommend the Venom unless you really need it to site very low. Cheers brother!
@ 8:48 "however!" 😆😆😄😄 my favorite part
Nice comparison!
+Rich4150 thanks Rich! Cheers brother
Good video!
Not sure how important field of view is if your shooting both eyes open.
Personally I like the bigger dot for competition shooting.
Thanks Rotor! That makes sense from a competition standpoint for sure. I shoot with both eyes open but for some reason, I just prefer looking through the Venom. Maybe because I am getting older? Who knows... Cheers brother!
What do you mean by auto mode. I assume that means the Vortex automatically sets the brightness based on the lighting conditions, correct?
Yes that is correct. Thank you and cheers!
The venom is the only one that has auto brightness capability
I have the venom on my Ruger Mark IV, it shoots excellent at 25 yards , I definitely want to take it to a different range to see how much further out it can reach.
That’s awesome! Thank you and cheers!
Good video. Unfortunately, I saw it too late. :-)
I picked up a Viper on an impulse purchase for my FNX45. It co-witnesses those sights, but the battery being under the unit (have to remove to change the battery) is a really poor design. If it weren't for that, the Viper would be hard to beat for the money.
I 100% agree Benjamin! How are you finding the battery life? Thank you and cheers!
So far, battery life is fine, but it's seen very limited use.
Excellent review on both mrds, thank you.
Thank you very much t77! Cheers
Great video!!👌🏽. Have to pick a venom up for my AR !
Thank you and that's awesome! You'll love it. Cheers!
Have been looking for this video to help me decide..... THANKS!
Glad it helped Ted! Cheers my friend
It looks like you have some gaps in the baseplate area on the glock mos. Was it a good match? Also the Wheeler torque wrench measures in inch/lbs not foot/lbs..
Thanks for the comment and feedback! As for the Wheeler wrench, you are exactly right... the camera catches all mistakes sadly. For the baseplates, I haven't had any issues though I see what you are talking about. Thank you and cheers!
I'm sorry i havent searched yet but have you compared the venom with the razor? I have owned 5 different RMRs and i currently own 3 dual illuminated 3moa.
CZC now makes a single dovetail mount that covers most optics. In the past, their mounts was everything else or RMR. So I have been restricted to only use RMR's.
With the new mount, I'm free to choose whatever i like!
I have not compared the Venom to the Razor, unfortunately. I'd like to at some point! Thank you and cheers!
Bought the fnx45t at the end of last year with the rebate for vortex venom. Was really excited, and just got a letter in the mail stating they no longer have venoms available and will be sending a viper... in April... a bit disappointed.
Nice comparison! good job
Thanks Tress! Cheers
That's cool 😎 nice comparison buddy 👍🏻
Thanks TMT! Cheers brother
Great review I appreciate the careful inside. I’m trying to figure out which one I want to use on my VP9... Thanks!
My pleasure and thank you! Cheers!
Same here! Just got the VP9,
Plan on getting it milled with either a Venom or something like it. Cant spend on the trijicon or leupold :(
Great comparison! Thanks.
Thank you very much! Cheers
Awesome comparison, thanks for sharing!
72cmcinc thank you very much! Cheers and thanks for watching!
Very well presented & articulated! Thx!
Thank you very much Boom! Cheers
Very nice video man! Lots of useful detail and explanations
Watching this comparison vid makes it seem like the Viper was very poorly designed. Battery compartment underneath the sight? Adjustment locks placed where they would be blocked by a rear sight? I don't know if there is a Gen II Viper Red Dot, but if not Vortex should just scrap this design and sell just the Venom.
Thanks for the comment and thoughts! I can't say I disagree. I understand why they did it... to offer a smaller profile red dot, but agree that the design needs some serious refining. Cheers!
Trjicon RMR which is the Gold standard has battery installed the same way.
Both failed on my Kimber Aegis Elite 45. I have a venom on my Glock 40 MOS, and it performs great with a 24 lb spring set up.
I bought a vortex venom for my Glock 43. I am going to mount it in rear sight slot. What company or companies make a rmsc mount. Appreciate your help in my inquiry. Thank you
Great info my friend. What is the mounting plate you used on your Walther? And where did you purchase it? Thanks for your time.
Thank you Michael! I used the number one plate I believe. I bought it at my local gun store Centerfire Shooting Sports. Cheers!
Thanks for the great review!
Thank you for the comment! Happy to do it my friend. Cheers!
what about the windage adjustment screws the lack of clicks doesnt play a role??
Not sure I follow your question. Cheers!
I very much enjoyed your video. I'll follow your advice and buy the Venom ...
+Eric De Preter that's awesome Eric! I hope you enjoy it my friend. Cheers!
I'm installing a rail on my Ruger Super Redhawk for deer hunting. Not picked a Red Dot yet but have shot the Trijicon and like it. Thoughts on mounting on a .44 Mag? Good video, been a Vortex user for scopes for a long time.
Thank you Terry! To be honest, I have little experience with 44 mags. If you like the Trijicon dots, that may be the way to go though. Cheers!
Such an informative video. Thank you for this!
Thank you very much RITUS! Cheers
I have done some research and agree with your comments that the Venom with 6MOA maybe just a little better for my liking. I am not co-witnessing. I am looking for a comparison of the Venom/Viper with the Leupold Deltapoint Pro. I am shooting a CZ75 SP01 Tactical. The Leupold is a bit more pricy but I can do that better than the Truijicon RMR. So I am wondering if you have any comments on the Vortex products compared to Leupold. Thanks Dave G
Thank you for the comments and the question David! Sadly, I only have experience with the 2 Vortex sights and the Burris Fast Fire III. Of those, I prefer the Venom the most, although all will do the job. I do hear good things abut the Leupold, however. Cheers!
In your experience whats the minimum height (front/rear sight) of co-witness backup sights to not cover up the glass as much and still be able to get a sight picture? Venom + Glock MOS
Great comparison, Thanks
The Walther Q5 match is not a regular everyday firearm its a competition firearm. And its great.
It definitely can serve as a competition firearm. Well said! Thank you and cheers!
Just bought the Viper for my Q5 Match. Please tell me which base you used to mount the Viper to the pistol? Thank you so much!! Lou
Awesome Lou! You'll love it. I believe it's the #1 plate if I'm not mistaken. Hope that helps. Cheers!
I must be dense or something but the field of view looked dramatically bigger in the Viper over the Venom but you said it was the reverse. What am I missing?
thanks for the feed back do you also have a video on the install on the vortex Vermon with the glockenspiel Mos using those screws you provided on the link thanks so much
I don't have a specific video on the installation. It should be reasonably self explanatory once you get started. If you are using those screws, you should be in great shape. Cheers!
KSGunGuy...... Thanks for the video. I would like your thoughts on the durability of Vortex Optics. I was talking with a staff member at my local FFL and indoor range location. It was regarding competition shooting with the Viper mounted on the Canik TP9SFX. His feedback was to get the Trijicon optic from a durability standpoint . Is he correct or was he just trying to "suggest" I go with the TP9SFX without the optic included. I am a Canik Fanatic, and can't imagine why that would package their competition model with a Vortex Viper if the optic is not a good "durable" product. As far as the battery placement on the optic, I would be concerned with the Venom battery cover coming lose and having them come flying off. It is a possibility if you don't tighten the cap down.
3MOA......aim small miss small
Hey! great video.. i hope you see and maybe answer my question. So if i get the viper for 120 bucks against the venom, which is running for 240 (as of right now).. is there that much of a winning edge to drop the extra 120 bucks for the venom? (Ps: I have a non MOS g19 with a mounting plate)
You are very knowledgeable about these sights. I want to run a Venom on a CZ Scorpion Evo 3 S1 with a lower 1/3 co-witness. Any suggestions on type of mount if any needed to accomplish this?
I believe you can get the Venom with a mount included. Just shop around. They also sell the mounts on the side. Thank you and cheers!
Very detailed and informative. Thanks!
Near the beginning of video the text references the Venom mounted on a Canik TP9SFX. Could you elaborate on that setup please? Stock sights on the Canik? Venom well above the stock sights? i.e. no co-witnessing? Thanks.
Both the venom and the viper sit above the sights on the TP9SFX so there is no co-witnessing. They were stock sights for the testing. Thank you for the questions and cheers!
I think you may have misspoke, isn't the venom the shorter one of the two?
+Thomas Abney thanks for the comment! The Viper is the shorter of the two. Cheers!
Perfect review
Hey thanks brother. I watched your video and a few others on the venom. And decided to try one out. It’s my first pistol dot sight and I think I’m gonna like it. I’ve got to remember to look at the target instead of the dot but I think once I get passed that it’s gonna be a lot of fun. One stupid question though. Would I be right in assuming that when its on auto mode and in my holster with a shirt over it that it’s on the brightest setting. Not that I think I’ll ever use the auto setting. It’s pretty bright even on the lowest setting it’s still bright enough to see when looking at a lamp shade.
Thanks for the question! It should be on the lowest setting when on auto and in a holster. Cheers!
Thanx buddy. Yeah I guess that makes more sense. Brighter for brighter. Dimmer for lower light.
Got the venom on my tp9sfx...easy to sight in and easy to find 3 moa dot!
I could tell he was shooting a Glock...the brass was going all over the place,including on the him!
Lol. Can't deny it! Cheers
ANOTHER HINT WAS THAT IT FIRED EVERYTIME!!!!!
Great Review Brother! I would definitely want the 6 MOA, I suck at using MOS On pistols. Thanks for the vid, #CZM4L. Carry On!
Thanks Big J!! You do not suck at red dots by the way. Cheers!
Definitely a great comparison video. You covered all the aspects one would wonder about. And thanks. I’m going to go with the Venom.
Thank you very much Travis! I think you'll really like the Venom. Cheers!
Would you use a Vortex for an EDC firearm or limit it to a range gun? I never had much luck with their viper series rifle scopes, ordered a delta point pro today,, I've known leupold for 30 years
Thanks Lane! I personally would not use a red dot for EDC but there are many that do. Delta Points are very nice from what I hear. Keep me posted on it! Cheers
KSGunGuy I shoot IPSC for years and years with a tasco red dot, going to give this a try at the range first
Great job ! Thank you for sharing
Thank you very much! Cheers Lou