@@Ririi17 I wasn’t talking about only them lol, I have other faves! for example purple kiss have reportedly been going down in album sales and I’ve actually seen a fair bit of a hate towards them, and some people calling them flops. they’re still popular enough to make careers off of it, idrc if they can be considered “flops”
@@Ririi17I love better group ARTMS, Pixy, Badvillain ,craxy etc. The word better i used It to express that there are groups smaller than dreamcatcher that they are also good despite their views. Loona was a shock for me when i began to stan them , they disbanded in the most tragic way.
@@slavakaripova2172 as an orbit I obviously love artms. And I like pixy, badvillian doesnt really make music I enjoy, craxy I never heard of might check them out
The hardest and saddest pill to swallow is that these lesser known groups will probably disband really early and we will have to only imagine the amazing bops they could have released 😭😭😭
the assertion that popular groups are the best is what kills nugus! people don’t want to listen to a group they think is a “flop” because of their album sales/streams/view counts and then miss out on awesome music. talented individuals are leaving the industry because they’re not hitting blackpink numbers, or at least anything resembling that 5 minutes after debut :(
"you clearely care more about the views than the music anyways" this sentence litterly oh my god.. i hate the streaming culture in kpop like how the fans play the song on low volume or with headphones all day so the idol can get more "streams/views". and u are not considered a real fan if you don't stream like bro I am normal I use kpop for entertainment not as a job. ill watch a video when I'm free and no I am not going to watch live stream without subtitles "just to support".
0:32 they argue over this because they are so into this parasocial relationship with these groups that they associate their self worth with their group.
it kinda reminds me of parents comparing thier childrens achievements. "OH WELL MY SON IS A DOCTOR AND GRAUDUATED FROM HARVARD". "ACTUALLY MY SON IS A LAWYER AND MAKES 8 FIGURES A YEAR". like bro ur not them so why are u showing off their achievements?
Is the Korean industry that makes fans acting like this. Firstly to gain awards and establish their audience in Korea you have to do huge amount of sales and streams in both platforms RUclips and Spotify, also to be at Billboard the most views and sales you have higher place you get on both Korean awards and billboard. That's why fans have this behaviour because they believe if you have better places in both of them will get more recognition. Also companies act like fans they're buying huge amount of payed views for the same reason and also because if a song is adorable maybe some of those people that watched this payed view will buy the album. Secondly is the worst fact that if a group doesn't makes the same number as they did before they will disband . We have so many examples for this reason successful groups like GOT7 , Momoland etc that they were successful but their companies always compared them with other groups in the same company or others. In addition fear of disbandment is the reason why most of the fans acting like this buying for example the same album 10 times. Other fact is hate . Hate makes people act like they play a team game and they have to win and finally be the better team (fandom) in kpop and also make shutting down the haters. Sorry for my English but i tried to do my best to explain to you why this happens!❤
streaming culture killed music as an art form. i’ll die on this hill. i don’t care if my favs chart at #1 or #1000. if the music is good, then i’m content! i’m not insecure enough to tie my identity to chart placements. “your group is FLOPPING! 😂🫵” not to me! all their songs are going platinum in my room as i’m playing video games!
Love this mentality! I used to be like those fans that thought charts were everything but now I just want to enjoy the music without the fanwars or the arguments
You spoke THE FACTS! Popularity =/= Good quality music automatically or Less Popularity =/= Bad quality music automatically. I am so tired of people fighting the war of "who deserves awards and who are flops".
As a Astro Ult I get this. Astro is a really popular group in Korea. You would be surprised how popular they are. They also really popular in Japan. However…they have in comparison to for example Seventeen a smaller international fanbase. Astro has a special sound, they always called very refreshing, they highly involved in their music. There are little to no songs they didn’t take part in song writing. Jinjin always writes his own raps which not every rapper does. You feel the difference that they care for their music. Eunwoo solo debut get called as a flop because he didn’t win a music show, because we didn’t stream the MV 20mio first day. But that Eunwoo himself said he didn’t want to promote the album so much gets ignored by Kpop Stans. They only see Eunwoo who gets either loved or hated that didn’t get a win so it’s a flop. But that this album was for us fans and him to reveal what is going on in his heart since last year…gets ignored. Next week we get Sanha Solo debut which will have another emotional impact on us and we already can hear people calling it a flop because for them we are a flop no matter what. But that Astro is more about music than numbers doesn’t matter to them. Yesterday we just got another fan song dedicated from Jinjin. He dropped on 19th April Fly as a gift in name of Bin for us, without a notices , no promotion. Nothing. He only said that he knew Bin would want us to hear his voice once again and it’s a gift he hope to give us some comfort. I rather stan a group that care about music than numbers.
I can truly understand you i love Ateez and it's so unbelievable the hate they got years ago because they were from a small company (KQ isn't small company despite other companies that they don't have money for a special mv or for marketing,but for Koreans KQ is a small company) and also for the opposite reason because they have more international fans in my country that isn't familiar with kpop they have 20000 fans a great number for example. I can't even afford the word nugu . I love pixy also a group that has 1M views this fact will change my love to their music?
Same for Rocky even though he had to leave because of the fandom hate he started building his company simply for those group of fans who want to hear him sing. It's not about breaking big records but meeting fans and reach out to as many of them as possible in the constraints of a very small company with very little budget.
So true! Dimash is the best singer that has ever lived. He has never even been on a chart and couldn’t care less about them. It is all contrived for $ not love of music or artists. It really isn’t a representation of talent either…. It’s kinda sad.
7:37 This part. BTS being my ult, I’m mostly on the Army side of things and every time a BTS release isn’t as massive as Seven or Dynamite, some of the fandom (and even antis) act like it flopped. Meanwhile, the success of the release is actually still insane. Not everything is gonna be a huge record breaking hit and that’s okay, it’s not that serious guys 💀
As someone who mainly stans BP and BTS I actually don't like the fandoms. The fanwars between both is stupid and insane and calling each other flops just doesn't make any sense
@@ariz347 as a Army I agree the big fandoms are used to those record breaking numbers. Its so annyoing like bts will be fine no matter what. Every member has a strong core fandom and every project will have million of listeners.
I always block any BP and BTS fan accounts on Twitter because in every single post, they always talk about the group's streams, their achievements and nothing else 😬
For me their is a big difference between both BTS and BlackPink, BTS didn't relie on Kpop nor Western industry, they grew bcos the fandom grew, BlackPink on other hand didn't hesitate with having Western label support as they could grasp what Army did in support, I've been reading and watching, basically researching what and how both grew and I've never seen an artist grow so much on BTS end without Capital Media and Industry support at their back @@jensetter-dib
@@jensetter-dibFor me their is a big difference between both BTS and BlackPink, BTS didn't relie on Kpop nor Western industry, they grew bcos the fandom grew, BlackPink on other hand didn't hesitate with having Western label support as they couldn't grasp what Army did in support, I've been reading and watching, basically researching what and how both grew and I've never seen an artist grow so much on BTS end without Capital Media and Industry support at their back. Like when you actually look thru the year's at article's and so on, it was all about BTS this and that, in my honest opinion, Kpop hasn't really grown BTS did, look at the sale's in 2024, sale's have gone down heavily and Jin alone being a torch bearer brought in over 800 million dollar's, kpop doesn't have this impact, and I understand the stream issue other's speak of as BTS alway's match their stat's, sale's, stream's, the lot, nobody else has or could seem to do this, I personally would love to see Fromis_9 leave Pledis as they're being heavily held back when they could've been more successful.
@@greenthinggg Funnily enough I’ve gotten mixed messages on that one, some people think it’s real, others say it’s not the emojis but RUclips acknowledging bots. And to top it all off haters spam emojis as well thinking they’re affecting views while simultaneously getting reply spammed by white nights. In conclusion, I have NO IDEA.
With the music industry as a whole, these days, a lot of small/underground artists make way more fun/unique music than mainstream artists imo. The numbers really don't matter anymore, especially since a lot of labels use bots to boost their artists' Spotify streams and whatnot. A good way to see how popular someone actually is would just be to look at live music ticket sales. How many people are really showing up to listen to their music in person. It also shows how dedicated of a fanbase they have.
I hate when they use views as a way to guilt the fans too or try to make a spin on how "loyal" the fanbase is. The orbit fanbase literally stuck with the loona girls through a long ass hiatus where they were suing their companies and the fans did their parts and properly boycotted. Now their album sales and views are small, but constant and stable. Orbits are the biggest anti-streamers but make groups that have 1million + album sales sweat when it comes to voting for award shows. We fill out most of their concerts and to this day all the members are active and going on world tours :))
Really damn good stuff that needs to be said louder. People are saying NewJean's new comeback "flopped" and did a bit worse than their older comebacks and somehow THAT determines that their favorite's song is better. I love your honesty with your opinions 🙏
Newjeans still did really good,well not as good as their previous comebacks but still really good. If people really think they really flopped artists would wish they would flop like this
i clicked on this video 18 seconds after it was uploaded lol. I have been really enjoying your content lately, it's always very accurate and you are good at expressing and explaining your opinions. Thank you 🎀
the worst is when the group is still really successful (especially even if it’s just in Korea), sure they aren’t getting 400M views but they’re still getting 20-100M?? even smaller numbers are completely fine for a new nugu group from a very small company, very few groups strike gold and can actually maintain that popularity!
Also most people I've seen really caring about their groups flopping or doing good are on the younger side, when you need validation from society and your peers, and you take it personally if a group you like gets hate or doesn't get as popular, if I remember correctly when I was that age, I kinda felt like I had bad taste if a band or singer I liked flopped or was actively mocked by my friends. Stuff like that it's never going away as long as artists have a younger fandom.
god i'm so glad i no longer keep up with kpop fandoms. a new single drops and your whole twitter feed is guilt-tripping you into streaming, people are writing lenghty paragraphs about how we are too lazy, that one person is explaining that they are leaving the fandom because they can no longer take the pressure and so on ... and then the view count is actually good but nah, you are not allowed the celebrate if you didn't stream ...insane.
agreed, I hate how they guilt trip us. Just cause I am a fan of a group, does not necessarily mean I have to like every single of their song and stream them over and over.
I’ve read comments like ”put the headphones on so you don’t have to listen to it while you are doing something else”, like, WHAT. If you like it so much, listen to it for real; otherwise it’s cheating! 😂
I'm so glad you talked about this, I've been thinking about this for such a long time. I've seen some stans make fun of other stans for being bad at streaming and it's like ok??? Like sorry some people have lives?? The numbers are just not that serious to me. Like yeah I do get excited when a group I like gets a show win or something like that, but I don't base my enjoyment of them or their worth on those things. Similarly I like a lot of groups, so I've never understood why so many stans need to be so competitive for no reason.
i cannot help but agree with each and every thing u mentioned ...especially abt views..i never liked the streaming culture and it has most of the time ruined songs for me ..so if any young fan is here..just listen to the music when u want to ..u enjoying the song is much more imp than ur favs getting a few million less views
as long as each group we follow keep coming back with new music periodically, then they are doing okay enough for themselves. I'll throw you a bone if they lose loads of engagement from millions to barely 10,000s but like how often does that happen
As a someone who likes all ggs but I like TWICE the most, thank you for speaking that, kpop stans obsession with being the first, the biggest and everyhting else is so tiresome and that kpop stans are really taking everything personally and as an attack on their favourite idol (you don't know these people mind you)
I totally agree with this. After just coming out of a huge fandom war in Stayville the argument boiled down to… “will this globally successful boy group that’s been consistently popular for a few years now completely crash and burn because we don’t stream one isolated collaboration single”. No, they won’t. Views and streams really don’t matter that much in the long run, like the video explained, and those people that listened to the song on repeat to spite the boycotters are simply harming everyone in the process. There are a lot of groups out there that put out an unpopular single, or even had an unpopular comeback, and they didn’t drop off the planet because of it. I think what really matters to companies is how much money they make, and so I personally think album sales are the most telling of how popular a group is. Although I do agree that kpop album sales are super inflated by all of the different versions and photo-card hunting, it’s also telling that fans are willing to pay for the same thing multiple times just to support a group more. Just to use myself as a personal example, I’m a big fan of Stray Kids and Twice and I would pre-order their albums without even fully knowing the concept and the sound just to get bonuses and to support them. With other groups, I don’t have any motivation to buy those albums unless the album is particularly good or I end up really loving the concept. Album sales and concert sales are the biggest direct influences to the income a group generates, and not generating income tends to lead to disbandment, no matter how good the songs are and how many people listened to them.
2:53 I was just thinking about this yesterday omg ! YG releases less music for BP because the company knows everyone would tune in and get excited for a comeback And blinks would keep streaming their old music
Its like when people in the comments section of an mv tells people to not use emojis in their comment because its gonna "freeze" the views. LIKE BRO, I GET THAT YOU WANNA SUPPORT UR ULTS BUT IF VIEWS ARE THE ONLY THING YOU CARE ABOUT FOR UR ULT GROUP THEN WHY EVEN STAN THEM AND WATCH THEIR MVS?
dare i say it is borderline neurotic? you’re obsessed with view counts to the point where you’re replying to every single person who posted an emoji to essentially finger-wag at them to make them never use an emoji in a kpop comment section ever again? i don’t understand it.
as a czennie we are so popular by not streaming enough but actually when you attend a concert it's the opposite and we truly care about buying albums i don't see that staff toxic unless some dreamizen
this is so true especially with 127!! they may not get billions of views but they're always selling out shows no matter where they go, that's how you know the fans are really there for the music
The only reason I'd care about my faves "flopping" is that 1. idols' employment + pay literally depends on the outcome of their comebacks 2. it might shake their confidence/make them worry even more about their future 3. if they're flopping a few times in a row, then it might mean being put on hold or even disbanded. It's not about me getting brownie points for stanning a certain group, I just want them to be fulfilled and paid well 😭
I agree with the view counts and how people care too much about views rather than if the song is good so hard but I never realized that views could effect with concert venues like that never crossed my mind
I don't think idols themselves care, especially that a lot of them are friends with people from other groups (like the 97 liners, thai idols having a groupchat, Seventeen hanging out with NCT members) and I can't even say how many times I've seen idols promote other groups' comebacks so why are we acting like we're their company's statistics team
I've been realllyy enjoying ur videos🎀 and ik ur mainly a gg stan but as a Stay I'm curious what u have to say abt skz since the topic of popular = better is very prevelent in stayville, and I feel like stays focus a lot on & celebrate the numbers skz makes rather than their art if that makes sense. For example in fan wars stays will mention album sales/ mv views / the member's relation to designer brands etc as a way of saying "skz is better" or smth along those lines if that makes sense. I would like to note there is a good amount of stays who listen to skz bcs they enjoy their music and don't behave as mentioned above!! I don't think I articulated this well enough however I hope it made sense :) Also I respect ur dedication to ur channel and enjoy the sometimes sarcastic delivery of ur opinions😂🌺
@@oo_oo8679 I'm also a stay and fully agree. The 4th gen leaders argument is so toxic too cuz its based on opinion. People will say whatever their ult group as the 4th gen leader and then argue or insult others if they don't agree
I don't mind when my favorite groups get a niche but loyal fanbase, but sometimes some groups I kinda follow and some big groups I followed in the past have a combo of flops so enduring that they get disbanded by their companies that's when I worry about my group flopping to be honest. I actually prefer when groups I like get to a medium size audience that loves them, like Nmixx. But some worry me, like ichillin and Pixy
Company/senior privilege when it comes to groups is HUGE. Omg a new group under yg, they’re the new 2ne1. Omg a new group under hybe, the new BTS. Omg a new jyp group, the new twice. It’s a massive part of the early success of certain groups
I didn't even know People did this to be honest 😭 and I've realized how much the music matters to me because groups like Stray Kids,ITZY , NMIXX, KARD, RED VELVET, and (G) I-DLE, I only found out about them through their music but with groups like (NO HATE) New jeans, black pink, BTS and other popular groups that I just heard about and didn't find through their music and I just heard about them thought they were cool and moved on.
Fans care about charts, views and streams because these are the only ways to measure the artist's success, status. This is the way to see if the album has done well or the song and usually companies understand if they can continue in the same direction. You can like an album or a song even if it doesn't do well in any of the above but you will be one of a small amount of people and the artist probably won't do anything in the same direction again. I agree that fanwars about such things are stupid, waste of time and I don't get them at all but I don't get hating on artists who literally do nothing more than entertainment. But let's be real. The three factors measure success in the eyes of the general public even though the artist may feel dissatisfied because he don't like his work
ive been on and off kpop for years at this point, ive always hated the "your favs got xyz views they flopped they suck!" because it doesnt really mean anything? i mean yes having a lot of views on an mv or breaking a record is great, but it doesn't elevate or lower the quality of their music. and people always act like the fact that a group has multiple views, streams, etc. = being leaders of their generation or something is awful and i think its whats ruining the originality in the industry (not like its the only reason but its definitely one of them, and its not just kpop its all music and media) real impact is something that lasts and cannot be changed. for me there havent really been many groups in the 4th and 5th gen (are we even in 5th gen lol i cannot tell i just see the debut ages getting younger and younger) that have made an impact save for groups like nwjns (i cant speak too much on boy groups because i dont really stan them) ill only call a group leaders when i see them making something fresh and innovative for their generation and really leaving their mark in the industry, even if they "flopped" in terms of sales.
8:08 Omg I remember how traumatizing it was to stream my favourite (at the time relatively successful) boy group back in 2020 Like I had 3 accounts and was streaming as much as I could because I wanted to see their first win I even bought an album for my birthday while being broke Never again. I'm happy I didn't continue this and understood how harmful it was to me
I became a kpop fan back in 2017 and blackpink was my first ult gg (not anymore though cuz of the lack of music, but i still like them) I was 12 back then and I was one of those people who take pride in views and achievements of my faves like they were my own, I never called anyone flops though cuz im literally a multistan. But overtime i outgrew what most kpop fans obsess over about and I find it hilarious because what are you even trying to prove? And also i find fanwars the most funniest thing ever 🤣 i hope kpop fans outgrow these obsessions but that might take a while…..
I agree like why do they say it's a flop, for example blackpink was called a flop for pink venom (btw I love pink venom) just because it was different to their over music which is ridiculous. Also, itty and nmixx don't deserve the hate just because music is different it doesn't mean it is bad.
I'm embarrassed to say that at the very start of my kpop journey I was so into this whole 'stream faves for views'. I would get sad that my faves were not getting the views they deserved, IMO. Then I took a step back and realized that I had gotten to a point where I was no longer enjoying the songs. I was to focused on getting views and points or votes for my faves. Now, 6+ years later I focus on the music. Exo and Mamamoo are my top faves who cares how many views they get. Yes, I do realize they are still considered big groups. Lol. Also, KARD, The Rose, Day 6 are groups I love who cares the view counts and albums sold. Yeah, fan wars are dumb. You don't have to stan all groups, but that does not mean you should be disrespectful. Anywho, love who you love and just enjoy.... Let's stop accusing people of being haters or being jealous when giving and opinion or giving constructive criticism. I feel some reactors are skeptical of expressing their opinions because fans will come after them, and that's sad. Not everyone has to like everything. Heck, even my faves have songs I don't really like or vibe with.
@@startrilogy this isn’t even drama, no one is even talking about it. it’s a joke, if you can’t handle it, i’m not sure what information to provide you. you can’t just stop the entire industry from these jokes 🤷♀️
This is why the streaming era is hated by most artist esp in the west it doesnt really mean anything anymore imagine having a no1 song just because one person stream loop it 100x vs a song that was played by 99 ppl dont get me wrong theres nothing bad with a dedicated fanbase but a song being no 1 just because of it vs a song that was loved by the majority is not good esp when sometimes the fans dont really care for the music they just do it bcuz its their faves it destroys the artist and fan perception of what is really good
I don't know it this going to sound bad, but sometimes some groups get huge numbers, and yes they put effort in it, but is a little unfair for me, thre are groups that have really good songs but the songs doesn't get the flowers they deserve even more than some viral hits
I think you mean well for this comment and im sure you werent trying to say anything wrong ofc of course they deserve flowers but to say they deserve more than another song is a little subjective and a bit rude and nobody should be the judge of which deserves more than the other. sadly some groups dont get what they deserve but sadly we cant control it
You make a lot of good points in this video. I'll call myself a casual fan. I don't obsess about numbers or view counts. I'm not a collector, so photobooks and things like that aren't anything I'm interested in. If I'm going to support my favorite groups, I'm going to buy the albums. I've listened to Blackpink a handful of times. I found that I don't like their sound. I don't care about them beyond that. I won't hate on them because they're successful. They have several millions (billions?) of views on their videos - cool. I'm not gonna be mad at someone that loves 'How You Like That?'. I listen to all sorts of different groups - Girls Generation has hundreds of millions of views. WOOAH has a fraction of those views, but they're one of my favorite groups. Dreamcatcher has such a unique sound. Oh My Girl is probably my ultimate group. I've heard maybe five or ten IVE songs - 'Love Dive' has 275 million views, and 'Summer Festa' has 8 million views - I enjoy both songs for different reasons. There was a Blackpink stan making snide remarks during one of Chuu's release streams. I'm listening to Chuu - I don't care at all that Blackpink has 2 billion views on 'Ddu-ddu-ddu'. It doesn't make 'Strawberry Rush' a flop.
Also can we stop with the hate trains just to push them out of the competition when they’re at their weakest point? Like for example, if a song is not doing so well, other fandoms will target at every other flaw to push them out of the competition. 4th gen leaders, 5th gen leaders bullshi. Go and touch some grass and stop living ur life through Kpop idols. The Kpop world is not high school . Go and be a bully in the real world and face ur own karma. Thank u fr coming to my Ted talk.
First of all, I'm not a native English speaker so I'm sorry if what I'm gonna say doesn't make any sense or if my grammar is wrong, I'm doing my best 🥲 Secondly, I'm an ARMY but I'm not a kpopstan, so all I'm gonna say is ONLY from the pov of an ARMY. I personally think that streams are important (as much as votes, sales etc, even though I agree with your opinion about album sales). Because that's the only way to show our fav that we're still supporting them. I mean, as an ARMY I know of much my favs work on each release, they have always been extremely implicated on their music projects. They have always wrote, produced, chose their concept. Knowing that, it's completely logical that I will do my best to support their art. That's the least I can do to thanks them for all their efforts to releasing music that speaks to me and resonates within me that much. As BTS have always said, teamwork makes the dream work. They work hard to release good music, and we work to push their music on charts. I think this mindset I have also depends on the relationship each fan have with their fav. BTS are talkative and they've always thank us each time they won on Music Bank, ranked high on Billboard Hot 100 or got a Grammy nomination. So it's not as if they don't care about what we give them. Despite this, I'm not the type of person who's gonna take this as a flex or a drag towards other fandoms. I mean, I do care about BTS streams and how it's going for them, but only for them, I do not care if your fav are doing well or not, definitely not my business. And I think it should be the same for everyone. Why do some people have to remind fandoms they don't like that their fav "flop" ?? Everyone should stream because they love and support their fav and their music, not because they want them to be more successful than other groups they dislike. Streams shouldn't be motivated by fanwars, but only by passion for music.
flopping doesnt matter if the group has a loyal fanbase. ex: red velvet, itzy, gidle, and twice are 'flopping' (because jyp and sm doesnt promote enough for those groups and gidle has just kinda rolled down the hill after queencard or superlady) but it really doesnt matter because no matter what, their fans will sell out albums, buy concert tickets, and stream the music.
It would be nice if views mean nothing but the current system still uses it as a metric for engagement. Once promo period finishes though that’s no longer a useful number. But more importantly, the issue most fans have is fear that a company will look at a group using those same numbers we think don’t really make much difference and create business moves such as less music or disbandment and that’s why fans get heated with numbers over enjoyment
7:44 I feel like people need to be reminded of this more. I mean come ON, getting a million views is so crazy, and getting more than that is even crazier. Kpop fans need to understand that even getting like 100k views is already crazy because not a lot of people can achieve that. Like why are you all acting as if you could get more than 1k views? 😭
You go girl and milk the content. A lot of kpop stans are very, very immature. I’ve been a Stan since 2012, and I am 31 now. This behavior has always been an integral part. Some people love in very sad environments and need an outlet to project and empower themselves. It becomes a personal identification with the group. This often leads to a need to bash and put other people down to put their group up. It’s childish and petty, and this demographic is mostly 21 year old and younger. Now mind you, I’m not saying everyone below 21 is a hater. It’s that people that do this are usually at that age. And hopefully they grow out of it.
Idk why but these days everyone has been hating on blinks, ok sometimes they are actually so embarrassing. They be in some random comments section that has nothing to do with blackpink and be like ‘Blackpink can do better’ like😭😭😭
OFF TOPIC, would love to see your thoughts on new Le Sserafim's documentary. Do you think it's made just so we can pity them and to avert the eyes from their latest controversies? Do you consider kpop documentaries authentic, or just another half scripted marketing stunt from the companies ? Did this (or any other) kpop documentary from a company change your view on the group? Do you think some fans are raising them on a higher pedestal now after the documentary release because of the hardships they endured, even though it is well known that these hardships are endured by almost all kpop idols? Would love to hear your opinion!
MV views era is over, general public have moved on to streaming and Spotify. But there are so many metrics nowadays that Circle (former Gaon) takes into account nowadays for digital chart. RUclips views are no longer relevant as it used to be. I have also seen fans complain about ILLIT's empty bio on Spotify that it's very important. I don't think that is a deal breaker, people are not lazy nowadays. If they want to look up more info about the group just google it. That's why I do with groups I'm curious about. But I do I agree that ILLIT didn't have a dedicated team like Enhypen for their debut. Belift Lab was understaffed for ILLIT and they are inexperienced to manage multiple groups simultaneously. Based on Super Real Me alone that was the shortest EP of all time under 10 min. As for Magnetic that was not even produced by Belift's in-house producers, the credits are BigHit's producers like Slow Rabbit, Bang PD and martin. Same producers that worked on TXT's Deja Vu that came out a week after Magnetic. Belift was not prepared for the success that Magnetic turn into. In the end, BigHit saved Belift's unprepared schedule for ILLIT. I don't expect Enhypen's producer, Wonderkid, to work with ILLIT, but give them at least Ca$hcow as their producer who produced the song, Desperate, for R U Next. Anyway, back to the topic. I don't think it matters much if a music video doesn't have like over 200M views. People rather listen to the songs than watch a MV. We can take good examples. BM's Sheesh music video is probably reaching 300M views on youtube but on Spotify it has only 168M streams. That speaks volumes. If we have something in contrast that break this norm. Magnetic music video is currently sitting at 128M views and has 335M streams on Spotify. General public is no longer sitting on youtube as in the past when youtube peaked in the 3rd gen of K-pop. I come from a J-pop background when I was supporting Keyakizaka46 between 2016 and 2019 and 3rd gen in K-pop were breaking records. MV trend in Japan has also died out because it was different when Keyakizaka46 was active and not rebranded to Sakurazaka46. MV views could hit over 50M views by standard. But now, you're lucky to even reach 10M views for a J-pop group. Nowadays in Japan it is not even physical sales that matters, all the metrics to be nominated for song of the year by judges are based on your popularity and number of streams and digital sales. People used to say Japan Record Awards was a irrelevant award show to brag about something. Around 2020 - 2023 it proved it got more difficult to be nominated for song of the year. The reason NewJeans was nominated was because of the streaming performance of Ditto in Japan which had achieved 100M streams in 19 weeks (NiziU with Make you happy hit that record first in 2020) and digital sales for the single was the highest for a K-pop gg in Japan like 14,117, when you compare to another popular song, OMG, only had 3,334. What happens in 2024 is too early to say until I have the receipts from TBS who runs Japan Record Awards. They normally announce the 10 nominees who won excellent work award to be nominated for grand prix award (soty) to perform their song on stage will be announced in Nov.
I would say that album sales numbers, despite probably not being good evidence of how popular a group is or how well-received the album itself is, are still a good indicator of the album's performance because they literally tell the company how successful these idols and the album in question are in generating revenue. With more profits, it becomes possible for the company to allocate a higher budget for the production of future releases, advertising, etc. But of course, I absolutely agree with you that the music itself should be the focus of discussion, not the numbers.
To say views and album sales mean nothing is laughable considering it's the way a company makes revenue from a group, it's the way the group itself is able to make money and the very metric that dictates awards and accomplishments, with that logic then movie agency's shouldn't care how many tickets their movie sold, sports should no longer keep track of wins and losses and Nascar should no longer keep track of driver placements. Let's just give everyone participation trophies and throw out all metrics that shows success.
You literally ignored my whole point and the whole video on purpose. I didn't think I'd have to spell it out like this but DUHHHH when it comes to revenue YES it is important. But when it comes to 'how many people listen to this album' it's not a good metric.
Yes, movie agencies are caring about movie sales, K-pop companies caring about views, etc. are very different. Of course the companies themselves should care about their own revenue, but it doesn't mean that their fans have to. The point she was making was that some fans think the K-pop companies' success is their own success when it is not.
oh i remember bumping into stan tweets and comments of "there's a show coming up we need to prepare and do the WORK" i mean i'm not going to judge this because for many people i personally know kpop is an escape but apparently (plz correct me if i'm wrong) the amount of views can also helps groups and certain idols get big projects and become brands ambassadors which brings more money. i think spotify streams also bring revenue. and of course album sales and merch also brings money. and i've come across many stans who have extremely parasocial relationship with the group mainly becauss they spend so much money and time that assume that the group's success (and other aspects of their life) is theirs and now i'm just sad, because i kinda wanna say "get a life, touch grass" but i feel like a total douche even thinking it
Girl you can’t really say that people who don’t have a lot of views on social media shouldn’t speak about kpop groups’ popularity, because there’s a difference between a random commentor and a kpop group who were trained for years to debut & gain popularity. It’s basically their (kpop groups’) job to be popular & earn money bc of their popularity. It just rubs me the wrong way. It’s similar to saying, for example, that only people with political science degree can speak about political issues and wars. Like, that doesn’t make sense. And I think that it’s better if no one says that a particular kpop group is a flop, but you know the reality is not like this. But saying only people with 100k views on tiktok can speak about MV counts or sth is kinda odd.
Yes. I can and did say that. Because that's how I personally feel about it. You disagree, and that's fine. I just think it's humorous that people bully others about views when they themselves do not have views. And it's absolutely not in any way like talking about political issues it's stupid to compare it to something actually serious. How are you gonna call someone a flop when literally who are you??? Do you get what I mean?? They're allowed to comment whatever they like BUT I'm also allowed to make fun of their public comments
Girl lisa released two bavk to back comebacks and she still managed to get most views for a kpop artist in a day this year ( mind you the mv was posted on a channel with around 2 million subs ) so pls stop discrediting bp
My faves flopping just reminds me that I’ve found a gold mine and everyone else is missing out on good music 😭
YES QUEEN
@@chuuislovechuuislife you stan loona and dreamcatcher !!!??
@@Ririi17 I wasn’t talking about only them lol, I have other faves! for example purple kiss have reportedly been going down in album sales and I’ve actually seen a fair bit of a hate towards them, and some people calling them flops. they’re still popular enough to make careers off of it, idrc if they can be considered “flops”
@@Ririi17I love better group ARTMS, Pixy, Badvillain ,craxy etc. The word better i used It to express that there are groups smaller than dreamcatcher that they are also good despite their views. Loona was a shock for me when i began to stan them , they disbanded in the most tragic way.
@@slavakaripova2172 as an orbit I obviously love artms. And I like pixy, badvillian doesnt really make music I enjoy, craxy I never heard of might check them out
"Not everyone's an expert, but everyone's a critic" this line from you is amaaaaazinggg
The hardest and saddest pill to swallow is that these lesser known groups will probably disband really early and we will have to only imagine the amazing bops they could have released 😭😭😭
the assertion that popular groups are the best is what kills nugus! people don’t want to listen to a group they think is a “flop” because of their album sales/streams/view counts and then miss out on awesome music. talented individuals are leaving the industry because they’re not hitting blackpink numbers, or at least anything resembling that 5 minutes after debut :(
This is why I love listening to lesser-known groups because they generally have a good discography.
"you clearely care more about the views than the music anyways" this sentence litterly oh my god.. i hate the streaming culture in kpop like how the fans play the song on low volume or with headphones all day so the idol can get more "streams/views".
and u are not considered a real fan if you don't stream like bro I am normal I use kpop for entertainment not as a job. ill watch a video when I'm free and no I am not going to watch live stream without subtitles "just to support".
for real but i just watch live streams to improve my korean if i can i will not wake up in 6 am to just do that
0:32 they argue over this because they are so into this parasocial relationship with these groups that they associate their self worth with their group.
Well put!
it kinda reminds me of parents comparing thier childrens achievements. "OH WELL MY SON IS A DOCTOR AND GRAUDUATED FROM HARVARD". "ACTUALLY MY SON IS A LAWYER AND MAKES 8 FIGURES A YEAR". like bro ur not them so why are u showing off their achievements?
@@nwjeanz143 Stage Mom’s at their finest or worst.
This always made me feel so odd? Like we are just stans.
Is the Korean industry that makes fans acting like this. Firstly to gain awards and establish their audience in Korea you have to do huge amount of sales and streams in both platforms RUclips and Spotify, also to be at Billboard the most views and sales you have higher place you get on both Korean awards and billboard. That's why fans have this behaviour because they believe if you have better places in both of them will get more recognition. Also companies act like fans they're buying huge amount of payed views for the same reason and also because if a song is adorable maybe some of those people that watched this payed view will buy the album. Secondly is the worst fact that if a group doesn't makes the same number as they did before they will disband . We have so many examples for this reason successful groups like GOT7 , Momoland etc that they were successful but their companies always compared them with other groups in the same company or others. In addition fear of disbandment is the reason why most of the fans acting like this buying for example the same album 10 times. Other fact is hate . Hate makes people act like they play a team game and they have to win and finally be the better team (fandom) in kpop and also make shutting down the haters. Sorry for my English but i tried to do my best to explain to you why this happens!❤
streaming culture killed music as an art form. i’ll die on this hill. i don’t care if my favs chart at #1 or #1000. if the music is good, then i’m content! i’m not insecure enough to tie my identity to chart placements.
“your group is FLOPPING! 😂🫵” not to me! all their songs are going platinum in my room as i’m playing video games!
Love this mentality! I used to be like those fans that thought charts were everything but now I just want to enjoy the music without the fanwars or the arguments
You spoke THE FACTS!
Popularity =/= Good quality music automatically or Less Popularity =/= Bad quality music automatically. I am so tired of people fighting the war of "who deserves awards and who are flops".
As a Astro Ult I get this. Astro is a really popular group in Korea. You would be surprised how popular they are. They also really popular in Japan. However…they have in comparison to for example Seventeen a smaller international fanbase. Astro has a special sound, they always called very refreshing, they highly involved in their music. There are little to no songs they didn’t take part in song writing. Jinjin always writes his own raps which not every rapper does. You feel the difference that they care for their music.
Eunwoo solo debut get called as a flop because he didn’t win a music show, because we didn’t stream the MV 20mio first day. But that Eunwoo himself said he didn’t want to promote the album so much gets ignored by Kpop Stans. They only see Eunwoo who gets either loved or hated that didn’t get a win so it’s a flop. But that this album was for us fans and him to reveal what is going on in his heart since last year…gets ignored.
Next week we get Sanha Solo debut which will have another emotional impact on us and we already can hear people calling it a flop because for them we are a flop no matter what. But that Astro is more about music than numbers doesn’t matter to them. Yesterday we just got another fan song dedicated from Jinjin. He dropped on 19th April Fly as a gift in name of Bin for us, without a notices , no promotion. Nothing. He only said that he knew Bin would want us to hear his voice once again and it’s a gift he hope to give us some comfort. I rather stan a group that care about music than numbers.
Yes! You’re an absolute queen! And Astro is an amazing group!! They really deserve fans like you!
I can truly understand you i love Ateez and it's so unbelievable the hate they got years ago because they were from a small company (KQ isn't small company despite other companies that they don't have money for a special mv or for marketing,but for Koreans KQ is a small company) and also for the opposite reason because they have more international fans in my country that isn't familiar with kpop they have 20000 fans a great number for example. I can't even afford the word nugu . I love pixy also a group that has 1M views this fact will change my love to their music?
@@slavakaripova2172 I love Atzee. They really popular here. All of they concerts were sold out. I hope I can attend one on their next tour in Europe
@@Lina12896 Astro is a very good group. Haters gonna hate but in the end of the day we all know what group has talent
Same for Rocky even though he had to leave because of the fandom hate he started building his company simply for those group of fans who want to hear him sing. It's not about breaking big records but meeting fans and reach out to as many of them as possible in the constraints of a very small company with very little budget.
Fans this days(not all of them ) only cares about charts ..not about music or it's meaning..or just enjoying it..
So true! Dimash is the best singer that has ever lived. He has never even been on a chart and couldn’t care less about them. It is all contrived for $ not love of music or artists. It really isn’t a representation of talent either…. It’s kinda sad.
7:37 This part. BTS being my ult, I’m mostly on the Army side of things and every time a BTS release isn’t as massive as Seven or Dynamite, some of the fandom (and even antis) act like it flopped. Meanwhile, the success of the release is actually still insane. Not everything is gonna be a huge record breaking hit and that’s okay, it’s not that serious guys 💀
As someone who mainly stans BP and BTS I actually don't like the fandoms. The fanwars between both is stupid and insane and calling each other flops just doesn't make any sense
@@ariz347 as a Army I agree the big fandoms are used to those record breaking numbers. Its so annyoing like bts will be fine no matter what. Every member has a strong core fandom and every project will have million of listeners.
I always block any BP and BTS fan accounts on Twitter because in every single post, they always talk about the group's streams, their achievements and nothing else 😬
For me their is a big difference between both BTS and BlackPink, BTS didn't relie on Kpop nor Western industry, they grew bcos the fandom grew, BlackPink on other hand didn't hesitate with having Western label support as they could grasp what Army did in support, I've been reading and watching, basically researching what and how both grew and I've never seen an artist grow so much on BTS end without Capital Media and Industry support at their back @@jensetter-dib
@@jensetter-dibFor me their is a big difference between both BTS and BlackPink, BTS didn't relie on Kpop nor Western industry, they grew bcos the fandom grew, BlackPink on other hand didn't hesitate with having Western label support as they couldn't grasp what Army did in support, I've been reading and watching, basically researching what and how both grew and I've never seen an artist grow so much on BTS end without Capital Media and Industry support at their back.
Like when you actually look thru the year's at article's and so on, it was all about BTS this and that, in my honest opinion, Kpop hasn't really grown BTS did, look at the sale's in 2024, sale's have gone down heavily and Jin alone being a torch bearer brought in over 800 million dollar's, kpop doesn't have this impact, and I understand the stream issue other's speak of as BTS alway's match their stat's, sale's, stream's, the lot, nobody else has or could seem to do this, I personally would love to see Fromis_9 leave Pledis as they're being heavily held back when they could've been more successful.
If you even send ONE heart emoji people attack you because that somehow affects the views… they TRULY mean nothing
Lmao fr😭 like is that even real?
@@greenthinggg Funnily enough I’ve gotten mixed messages on that one, some people think it’s real, others say it’s not the emojis but RUclips acknowledging bots. And to top it all off haters spam emojis as well thinking they’re affecting views while simultaneously getting reply spammed by white nights. In conclusion, I have NO IDEA.
@@bubbles000 the kpop space is messy basicallly lol
Exactly the people in the blink fandom are embarrassing and give actual blinks a bad name🤦🏾♀️
Yah:((
(as a blink , my ult is BP 💗ㅠㅠ)
With the music industry as a whole, these days, a lot of small/underground artists make way more fun/unique music than mainstream artists imo. The numbers really don't matter anymore, especially since a lot of labels use bots to boost their artists' Spotify streams and whatnot. A good way to see how popular someone actually is would just be to look at live music ticket sales. How many people are really showing up to listen to their music in person. It also shows how dedicated of a fanbase they have.
I hate when they use views as a way to guilt the fans too or try to make a spin on how "loyal" the fanbase is. The orbit fanbase literally stuck with the loona girls through a long ass hiatus where they were suing their companies and the fans did their parts and properly boycotted. Now their album sales and views are small, but constant and stable. Orbits are the biggest anti-streamers but make groups that have 1million + album sales sweat when it comes to voting for award shows. We fill out most of their concerts and to this day all the members are active and going on world tours :))
Really damn good stuff that needs to be said louder. People are saying NewJean's new comeback "flopped" and did a bit worse than their older comebacks and somehow THAT determines that their favorite's song is better. I love your honesty with your opinions 🙏
Newjeans still did really good,well not as good as their previous comebacks but still really good. If people really think they really flopped artists would wish they would flop like this
i clicked on this video 18 seconds after it was uploaded lol. I have been really enjoying your content lately, it's always very accurate and you are good at expressing and explaining your opinions. Thank you 🎀
the worst is when the group is still really successful (especially even if it’s just in Korea), sure they aren’t getting 400M views but they’re still getting 20-100M?? even smaller numbers are completely fine for a new nugu group from a very small company, very few groups strike gold and can actually maintain that popularity!
Also most people I've seen really caring about their groups flopping or doing good are on the younger side, when you need validation from society and your peers, and you take it personally if a group you like gets hate or doesn't get as popular, if I remember correctly when I was that age, I kinda felt like I had bad taste if a band or singer I liked flopped or was actively mocked by my friends.
Stuff like that
it's never going away as long as artists have a younger fandom.
god i'm so glad i no longer keep up with kpop fandoms. a new single drops and your whole twitter feed is guilt-tripping you into streaming, people are writing lenghty paragraphs about how we are too lazy, that one person is explaining that they are leaving the fandom because they can no longer take the pressure and so on ... and then the view count is actually good but nah, you are not allowed the celebrate if you didn't stream ...insane.
agreed, I hate how they guilt trip us. Just cause I am a fan of a group, does not necessarily mean I have to like every single of their song and stream them over and over.
I’ve read comments like ”put the headphones on so you don’t have to listen to it while you are doing something else”, like, WHAT. If you like it so much, listen to it for real; otherwise it’s cheating! 😂
could literally listen to you talk all day because everything you say hits the nail on the head (i also can’t help but fall for your accent oml 🫶)
A literal fairy is born everytime Natasha uploads a video,you now have 29 fairies in your name 🧚♀
This should be shown to THOSE blinks
Finally someone speaking some truths. Listen to your music and don't disturb others (including the Idols)!!!!
I'm so glad you talked about this, I've been thinking about this for such a long time. I've seen some stans make fun of other stans for being bad at streaming and it's like ok??? Like sorry some people have lives?? The numbers are just not that serious to me. Like yeah I do get excited when a group I like gets a show win or something like that, but I don't base my enjoyment of them or their worth on those things. Similarly I like a lot of groups, so I've never understood why so many stans need to be so competitive for no reason.
Just enjoy music. There are so much music out there. There are something for everyone. Music heals.
i cannot help but agree with each and every thing u mentioned ...especially abt views..i never liked the streaming culture and it has most of the time ruined songs for me ..so if any young fan is here..just listen to the music when u want to ..u enjoying the song is much more imp than ur favs getting a few million less views
as long as each group we follow keep coming back with new music periodically, then they are doing okay enough for themselves. I'll throw you a bone if they lose loads of engagement from millions to barely 10,000s but like how often does that happen
As a someone who likes all ggs but I like TWICE the most, thank you for speaking that, kpop stans obsession with being the first, the biggest and everyhting else is so tiresome and that kpop stans are really taking everything personally and as an attack on their favourite idol (you don't know these people mind you)
I totally agree with this. After just coming out of a huge fandom war in Stayville the argument boiled down to… “will this globally successful boy group that’s been consistently popular for a few years now completely crash and burn because we don’t stream one isolated collaboration single”. No, they won’t. Views and streams really don’t matter that much in the long run, like the video explained, and those people that listened to the song on repeat to spite the boycotters are simply harming everyone in the process. There are a lot of groups out there that put out an unpopular single, or even had an unpopular comeback, and they didn’t drop off the planet because of it.
I think what really matters to companies is how much money they make, and so I personally think album sales are the most telling of how popular a group is. Although I do agree that kpop album sales are super inflated by all of the different versions and photo-card hunting, it’s also telling that fans are willing to pay for the same thing multiple times just to support a group more. Just to use myself as a personal example, I’m a big fan of Stray Kids and Twice and I would pre-order their albums without even fully knowing the concept and the sound just to get bonuses and to support them. With other groups, I don’t have any motivation to buy those albums unless the album is particularly good or I end up really loving the concept. Album sales and concert sales are the biggest direct influences to the income a group generates, and not generating income tends to lead to disbandment, no matter how good the songs are and how many people listened to them.
2:53 I was just thinking about this yesterday omg !
YG releases less music for BP because the company knows everyone would tune in and get excited for a comeback
And blinks would keep streaming their old music
"Just listen to your music and shut up." Listen to A.C.E to see if they are your taste, everyone. They are my favorite flops.
Its like when people in the comments section of an mv tells people to not use emojis in their comment because its gonna "freeze" the views. LIKE BRO, I GET THAT YOU WANNA SUPPORT UR ULTS BUT IF VIEWS ARE THE ONLY THING YOU CARE ABOUT FOR UR ULT GROUP THEN WHY EVEN STAN THEM AND WATCH THEIR MVS?
dare i say it is borderline neurotic? you’re obsessed with view counts to the point where you’re replying to every single person who posted an emoji to essentially finger-wag at them to make them never use an emoji in a kpop comment section ever again? i don’t understand it.
Natasha, I truly appreciate your RUclips videos! The topics you cover are so interesting and I love the effort you put into your videos! Keep going 💕💕
Oh THANK YOU, I am a blink too but I’m not so biased to be completely blind on some matters 😩❤️
as a czennie we are so popular by not streaming enough but actually when you attend a concert it's the opposite and we truly care about buying albums i don't see that staff toxic unless some dreamizen
this is so true especially with 127!! they may not get billions of views but they're always selling out shows no matter where they go, that's how you know the fans are really there for the music
The only reason I'd care about my faves "flopping" is that 1. idols' employment + pay literally depends on the outcome of their comebacks 2. it might shake their confidence/make them worry even more about their future 3. if they're flopping a few times in a row, then it might mean being put on hold or even disbanded. It's not about me getting brownie points for stanning a certain group, I just want them to be fulfilled and paid well 😭
I agree with the view counts and how people care too much about views rather than if the song is good so hard but I never realized that views could effect with concert venues like that never crossed my mind
I don't think idols themselves care, especially that a lot of them are friends with people from other groups (like the 97 liners, thai idols having a groupchat, Seventeen hanging out with NCT members) and I can't even say how many times I've seen idols promote other groups' comebacks so why are we acting like we're their company's statistics team
I've been realllyy enjoying ur videos🎀 and ik ur mainly a gg stan but as a Stay I'm curious what u have to say abt skz since the topic of popular = better is very prevelent in stayville, and I feel like stays focus a lot on & celebrate the numbers skz makes rather than their art if that makes sense. For example in fan wars stays will mention album sales/ mv views / the member's relation to designer brands etc as a way of saying "skz is better" or smth along those lines if that makes sense.
I would like to note there is a good amount of stays who listen to skz bcs they enjoy their music and don't behave as mentioned above!!
I don't think I articulated this well enough however I hope it made sense :)
Also I respect ur dedication to ur channel and enjoy the sometimes sarcastic delivery of ur opinions😂🌺
@@oo_oo8679 I'm also a stay and fully agree. The 4th gen leaders argument is so toxic too cuz its based on opinion. People will say whatever their ult group as the 4th gen leader and then argue or insult others if they don't agree
@@princessm6832 yesss exactly, like why worry abt that, can't we just vibe to their music and call it a day🤙
I don't mind when my favorite groups get a niche but loyal fanbase, but sometimes some groups I kinda follow and some big groups I followed in the past have a combo of flops so enduring that they get disbanded by their companies
that's when I worry about my group flopping to be honest.
I actually prefer when groups I like get to a medium size audience that loves them, like Nmixx. But some worry me, like ichillin and Pixy
Company/senior privilege when it comes to groups is HUGE. Omg a new group under yg, they’re the new 2ne1. Omg a new group under hybe, the new BTS. Omg a new jyp group, the new twice. It’s a massive part of the early success of certain groups
I didn't even know People did this to be honest 😭 and I've realized how much the music matters to me because groups like Stray Kids,ITZY , NMIXX, KARD, RED VELVET, and (G) I-DLE, I only found out about them through their music but with groups like (NO HATE) New jeans, black pink, BTS and other popular groups that I just heard about and didn't find through their music and I just heard about them thought they were cool and moved on.
Fans care about charts, views and streams because these are the only ways to measure the artist's success, status. This is the way to see if the album has done well or the song and usually companies understand if they can continue in the same direction. You can like an album or a song even if it doesn't do well in any of the above but you will be one of a small amount of people and the artist probably won't do anything in the same direction again. I agree that fanwars about such things are stupid, waste of time and I don't get them at all but I don't get hating on artists who literally do nothing more than entertainment. But let's be real. The three factors measure success in the eyes of the general public even though the artist may feel dissatisfied because he don't like his work
THAT INTRO WAS DEVIOUS AND I LOVED IT😭
ive been on and off kpop for years at this point, ive always hated the "your favs got xyz views they flopped they suck!" because it doesnt really mean anything? i mean yes having a lot of views on an mv or breaking a record is great, but it doesn't elevate or lower the quality of their music.
and people always act like the fact that a group has multiple views, streams, etc. = being leaders of their generation or something is awful and i think its whats ruining the originality in the industry (not like its the only reason but its definitely one of them, and its not just kpop its all music and media)
real impact is something that lasts and cannot be changed. for me there havent really been many groups in the 4th and 5th gen (are we even in 5th gen lol i cannot tell i just see the debut ages getting younger and younger) that have made an impact save for groups like nwjns (i cant speak too much on boy groups because i dont really stan them)
ill only call a group leaders when i see them making something fresh and innovative for their generation and really leaving their mark in the industry, even if they "flopped" in terms of sales.
I really don't understand why everyone is still nagging on itzy, sneakers was the only questionable drop, they've been on fire ever since
12 seconds into the video and you already stated facts. QUEEN
8:08
Omg
I remember how traumatizing it was to stream my favourite (at the time relatively successful) boy group back in 2020
Like I had 3 accounts and was streaming as much as I could because I wanted to see their first win
I even bought an album for my birthday while being broke
Never again. I'm happy I didn't continue this and understood how harmful it was to me
You summed it up the best in thumbnail: Popular != Better
Thank you for this video 😭😭😭
I became a kpop fan back in 2017 and blackpink was my first ult gg (not anymore though cuz of the lack of music, but i still like them) I was 12 back then and I was one of those people who take pride in views and achievements of my faves like they were my own, I never called anyone flops though cuz im literally a multistan. But overtime i outgrew what most kpop fans obsess over about and I find it hilarious because what are you even trying to prove? And also i find fanwars the most funniest thing ever 🤣 i hope kpop fans outgrow these obsessions but that might take a while…..
I agree like why do they say it's a flop, for example blackpink was called a flop for pink venom (btw I love pink venom) just because it was different to their over music which is ridiculous. Also, itty and nmixx don't deserve the hate just because music is different it doesn't mean it is bad.
I clicked so quickly when i saw that you posted this video
I'm embarrassed to say that at the very start of my kpop journey I was so into this whole 'stream faves for views'. I would get sad that my faves were not getting the views they deserved, IMO. Then I took a step back and realized that I had gotten to a point where I was no longer enjoying the songs. I was to focused on getting views and points or votes for my faves.
Now, 6+ years later I focus on the music. Exo and Mamamoo are my top faves who cares how many views they get. Yes, I do realize they are still considered big groups. Lol. Also, KARD, The Rose, Day 6 are groups I love who cares the view counts and albums sold. Yeah, fan wars are dumb. You don't have to stan all groups, but that does not mean you should be disrespectful. Anywho, love who you love and just enjoy.... Let's stop accusing people of being haters or being jealous when giving and opinion or giving constructive criticism. I feel some reactors are skeptical of expressing their opinions because fans will come after them, and that's sad. Not everyone has to like everything. Heck, even my faves have songs I don't really like or vibe with.
10:53 girl idk why that reminded me of that line from CL's Hello B**ches, "my boys won't hesitate to run up on your boys" 😂
“txt, skz, bts, newjeans, and illit are flops!”
-said a loona fan
@@startrilogy this isn’t even drama, no one is even talking about it. it’s a joke, if you can’t handle it, i’m not sure what information to provide you. you can’t just stop the entire industry from these jokes 🤷♀️
As i imSomnia i care a lot about views tbh, i just want my girls to succeed
This is why the streaming era is hated by most artist esp in the west it doesnt really mean anything anymore imagine having a no1 song just because one person stream loop it 100x vs a song that was played by 99 ppl dont get me wrong theres nothing bad with a dedicated fanbase but a song being no 1 just because of it vs a song that was loved by the majority is not good esp when sometimes the fans dont really care for the music they just do it bcuz its their faves it destroys the artist and fan perception of what is really good
Itzy is one of the few groups I play at work that my co workers tend to like, blackpink too, and some new jeans songs, and i work in a kitchen so...
I don't know it this going to sound bad, but sometimes some groups get huge numbers, and yes they put effort in it, but is a little unfair for me, thre are groups that have really good songs but the songs doesn't get the flowers they
deserve even more than some viral hits
I think you mean well for this comment and im sure you werent trying to say anything wrong ofc of course they deserve flowers but to say they deserve more than another song is a little subjective and a bit rude and nobody should be the judge of which deserves more than the other. sadly some groups dont get what they deserve but sadly we cant control it
You make a lot of good points in this video.
I'll call myself a casual fan. I don't obsess about numbers or view counts. I'm not a collector, so photobooks and things like that aren't anything I'm interested in. If I'm going to support my favorite groups, I'm going to buy the albums.
I've listened to Blackpink a handful of times. I found that I don't like their sound. I don't care about them beyond that. I won't hate on them because they're successful. They have several millions (billions?) of views on their videos - cool. I'm not gonna be mad at someone that loves 'How You Like That?'.
I listen to all sorts of different groups - Girls Generation has hundreds of millions of views. WOOAH has a fraction of those views, but they're one of my favorite groups. Dreamcatcher has such a unique sound. Oh My Girl is probably my ultimate group. I've heard maybe five or ten IVE songs - 'Love Dive' has 275 million views, and 'Summer Festa' has 8 million views - I enjoy both songs for different reasons.
There was a Blackpink stan making snide remarks during one of Chuu's release streams. I'm listening to Chuu - I don't care at all that Blackpink has 2 billion views on 'Ddu-ddu-ddu'. It doesn't make 'Strawberry Rush' a flop.
Also can we stop with the hate trains just to push them out of the competition when they’re at their weakest point? Like for example, if a song is not doing so well, other fandoms will target at every other flaw to push them out of the competition. 4th gen leaders, 5th gen leaders bullshi. Go and touch some grass and stop living ur life through Kpop idols. The Kpop world is not high school . Go and be a bully in the real world and face ur own karma. Thank u fr coming to my Ted talk.
First of all, I'm not a native English speaker so I'm sorry if what I'm gonna say doesn't make any sense or if my grammar is wrong, I'm doing my best 🥲
Secondly, I'm an ARMY but I'm not a kpopstan, so all I'm gonna say is ONLY from the pov of an ARMY.
I personally think that streams are important (as much as votes, sales etc, even though I agree with your opinion about album sales). Because that's the only way to show our fav that we're still supporting them. I mean, as an ARMY I know of much my favs work on each release, they have always been extremely implicated on their music projects. They have always wrote, produced, chose their concept. Knowing that, it's completely logical that I will do my best to support their art. That's the least I can do to thanks them for all their efforts to releasing music that speaks to me and resonates within me that much. As BTS have always said, teamwork makes the dream work. They work hard to release good music, and we work to push their music on charts. I think this mindset I have also depends on the relationship each fan have with their fav. BTS are talkative and they've always thank us each time they won on Music Bank, ranked high on Billboard Hot 100 or got a Grammy nomination. So it's not as if they don't care about what we give them.
Despite this, I'm not the type of person who's gonna take this as a flex or a drag towards other fandoms. I mean, I do care about BTS streams and how it's going for them, but only for them, I do not care if your fav are doing well or not, definitely not my business. And I think it should be the same for everyone. Why do some people have to remind fandoms they don't like that their fav "flop" ?? Everyone should stream because they love and support their fav and their music, not because they want them to be more successful than other groups they dislike. Streams shouldn't be motivated by fanwars, but only by passion for music.
guys !! check out KATSEYE they need more fans !!! >
Agreed, this obsession with views is ridiculous
The title is so true 🫢
it's so funny when people do this. my top songs are from nugu girl groups LOL
flopping doesnt matter if the group has a loyal fanbase. ex: red velvet, itzy, gidle, and twice are 'flopping' (because jyp and sm doesnt promote enough for those groups and gidle has just kinda rolled down the hill after queencard or superlady) but it really doesnt matter because no matter what, their fans will sell out albums, buy concert tickets, and stream the music.
It would be nice if views mean nothing but the current system still uses it as a metric for engagement. Once promo period finishes though that’s no longer a useful number. But more importantly, the issue most fans have is fear that a company will look at a group using those same numbers we think don’t really make much difference and create business moves such as less music or disbandment and that’s why fans get heated with numbers over enjoyment
7:44 I feel like people need to be reminded of this more. I mean come ON, getting a million views is so crazy, and getting more than that is even crazier. Kpop fans need to understand that even getting like 100k views is already crazy because not a lot of people can achieve that. Like why are you all acting as if you could get more than 1k views? 😭
as a dreamcatcher stan, THIS
One of my fav groups is Blackswan. But they never were really popular. But that doesn't mean their music is bad. Also live the video❤❤
I am fan of dbsk
Dbsk was most populer in there time, they got vews and sales organicly
Now peple say dbsk is flop 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
10:57 Imma write that in my brain to use later..
You go girl and milk the content. A lot of kpop stans are very, very immature. I’ve been a Stan since 2012, and I am 31 now. This behavior has always been an integral part.
Some people love in very sad environments and need an outlet to project and empower themselves. It becomes a personal identification with the group.
This often leads to a need to bash and put other people down to put their group up. It’s childish and petty, and this demographic is mostly 21 year old and younger.
Now mind you, I’m not saying everyone below 21 is a hater. It’s that people that do this are usually at that age. And hopefully they grow out of it.
Idk why but these days everyone has been hating on blinks, ok sometimes they are actually so embarrassing. They be in some random comments section that has nothing to do with blackpink and be like ‘Blackpink can do better’ like😭😭😭
OFF TOPIC, would love to see your thoughts on new Le Sserafim's documentary. Do you think it's made just so we can pity them and to avert the eyes from their latest controversies? Do you consider kpop documentaries authentic, or just another half scripted marketing stunt from the companies ? Did this (or any other) kpop documentary from a company change your view on the group? Do you think some fans are raising them on a higher pedestal now after the documentary release because of the hardships they endured, even though it is well known that these hardships are endured by almost all kpop idols? Would love to hear your opinion!
MV views era is over, general public have moved on to streaming and Spotify. But there are so many metrics nowadays that Circle (former Gaon) takes into account nowadays for digital chart.
RUclips views are no longer relevant as it used to be. I have also seen fans complain about ILLIT's empty bio on Spotify that it's very important. I don't think that is a deal breaker, people are not lazy nowadays. If they want to look up more info about the group just google it. That's why I do with groups I'm curious about. But I do I agree that ILLIT didn't have a dedicated team like Enhypen for their debut. Belift Lab was understaffed for ILLIT and they are inexperienced to manage multiple groups simultaneously. Based on Super Real Me alone that was the shortest EP of all time under 10 min. As for Magnetic that was not even produced by Belift's in-house producers, the credits are BigHit's producers like Slow Rabbit, Bang PD and martin. Same producers that worked on TXT's Deja Vu that came out a week after Magnetic. Belift was not prepared for the success that Magnetic turn into. In the end, BigHit saved Belift's unprepared schedule for ILLIT. I don't expect Enhypen's producer, Wonderkid, to work with ILLIT, but give them at least Ca$hcow as their producer who produced the song, Desperate, for R U Next.
Anyway, back to the topic. I don't think it matters much if a music video doesn't have like over 200M views. People rather listen to the songs than watch a MV. We can take good examples. BM's Sheesh music video is probably reaching 300M views on youtube but on Spotify it has only 168M streams. That speaks volumes. If we have something in contrast that break this norm. Magnetic music video is currently sitting at 128M views and has 335M streams on Spotify. General public is no longer sitting on youtube as in the past when youtube peaked in the 3rd gen of K-pop.
I come from a J-pop background when I was supporting Keyakizaka46 between 2016 and 2019 and 3rd gen in K-pop were breaking records. MV trend in Japan has also died out because it was different when Keyakizaka46 was active and not rebranded to Sakurazaka46. MV views could hit over 50M views by standard. But now, you're lucky to even reach 10M views for a J-pop group.
Nowadays in Japan it is not even physical sales that matters, all the metrics to be nominated for song of the year by judges are based on your popularity and number of streams and digital sales. People used to say Japan Record Awards was a irrelevant award show to brag about something. Around 2020 - 2023 it proved it got more difficult to be nominated for song of the year. The reason NewJeans was nominated was because of the streaming performance of Ditto in Japan which had achieved 100M streams in 19 weeks (NiziU with Make you happy hit that record first in 2020) and digital sales for the single was the highest for a K-pop gg in Japan like 14,117, when you compare to another popular song, OMG, only had 3,334. What happens in 2024 is too early to say until I have the receipts from TBS who runs Japan Record Awards. They normally announce the 10 nominees who won excellent work award to be nominated for grand prix award (soty) to perform their song on stage will be announced in Nov.
Blackswan comeback tomorrow!
totally off topic but id love to see you talk abt "single's inferno" if youve seen it!!!
What are your favorite groups! Love your videos - keep it real girl
Nice channel. New subscriber here
Love you and your videos🤍
I would say that album sales numbers, despite probably not being good evidence of how popular a group is or how well-received the album itself is, are still a good indicator of the album's performance because they literally tell the company how successful these idols and the album in question are in generating revenue. With more profits, it becomes possible for the company to allocate a higher budget for the production of future releases, advertising, etc. But of course, I absolutely agree with you that the music itself should be the focus of discussion, not the numbers.
Multie something common for international stan's but not common domestically in Korea as they look down on it, since it show's unloyalty
I don’t entertain that parasocial weirdo crap
To say views and album sales mean nothing is laughable considering it's the way a company makes revenue from a group, it's the way the group itself is able to make money and the very metric that dictates awards and accomplishments, with that logic then movie agency's shouldn't care how many tickets their movie sold, sports should no longer keep track of wins and losses and Nascar should no longer keep track of driver placements. Let's just give everyone participation trophies and throw out all metrics that shows success.
You literally ignored my whole point and the whole video on purpose. I didn't think I'd have to spell it out like this but DUHHHH when it comes to revenue YES it is important. But when it comes to 'how many people listen to this album' it's not a good metric.
Yes, movie agencies are caring about movie sales, K-pop companies caring about views, etc. are very different. Of course the companies themselves should care about their own revenue, but it doesn't mean that their fans have to. The point she was making was that some fans think the K-pop companies' success is their own success when it is not.
Yall really just hear one thing and miss all the words around it and dont even try to get the point 🤦🏾♀️
Love your honesty!❤❤🤣🤣
So real
pls can you drop your hair routine & hair products?
Please, react to BLACKSWAN'S MV. they just released their EP and their song ROLL UP is hitting a lot of charts on iTunes.
Irrelevant, but I love ur accent
she sounds like my English teacher (I live in England and it’s just that certain type of English accent)
Opinion on Zb1 and 5th gen
Hiiii can talk about vcha there one of my fav and they haven’t been active lately
oh i remember bumping into stan tweets and comments of "there's a show coming up we need to prepare and do the WORK"
i mean i'm not going to judge this because for many people i personally know kpop is an escape
but apparently (plz correct me if i'm wrong) the amount of views can also helps groups and certain idols get big projects and become brands ambassadors which brings more money. i think spotify streams also bring revenue. and of course album sales and merch also brings money.
and i've come across many stans who have extremely parasocial relationship with the group mainly becauss they spend so much money and time that assume that the group's success (and other aspects of their life) is theirs
and now i'm just sad, because i kinda wanna say "get a life, touch grass" but i feel like a total douche even thinking it
Girl you can’t really say that people who don’t have a lot of views on social media shouldn’t speak about kpop groups’ popularity, because there’s a difference between a random commentor and a kpop group who were trained for years to debut & gain popularity. It’s basically their (kpop groups’) job to be popular & earn money bc of their popularity.
It just rubs me the wrong way. It’s similar to saying, for example, that only people with political science degree can speak about political issues and wars. Like, that doesn’t make sense.
And I think that it’s better if no one says that a particular kpop group is a flop, but you know the reality is not like this. But saying only people with 100k views on tiktok can speak about MV counts or sth is kinda odd.
Yes. I can and did say that. Because that's how I personally feel about it. You disagree, and that's fine. I just think it's humorous that people bully others about views when they themselves do not have views. And it's absolutely not in any way like talking about political issues it's stupid to compare it to something actually serious. How are you gonna call someone a flop when literally who are you??? Do you get what I mean?? They're allowed to comment whatever they like BUT I'm also allowed to make fun of their public comments
Its just weird to bully someone about views when you have nothing tho?
I Love You💙
Girl lisa released two bavk to back comebacks and she still managed to get most views for a kpop artist in a day this year ( mind you the mv was posted on a channel with around 2 million subs ) so pls stop discrediting bp