The fact the Nixxes PC port for this was supposedly ready to ship but never released is *criminal*. I think about it sometimes, I wish I could have the modeling tools 😭 Its so intuitive and easy compared to using Blender or Zbrush I sincerely hope the port "accidentally leaks", or actually releases
Man this such a sad thing my main issue with dreams is i need to use a controller to create stuff While u can create them but it was destroying me mentaily and taking a lot of time compared to using blender and zbrush
@@josephjoestar6958 The DS4 is so clunky. Try to find a pair of Move controllers, they are even better than using mouse and keyboard on PC for 3D creation.
@@josephjoestar6958 the controller controls for creating is one of the best things within dreams imo lmao, within the first 5 hours you get used to it, but after the 3000 hours I have, its like... gliding through butter; doing literally every action within the create engine.
The problem is that this game is not on PC. If it were there this game would thrive, a whole engine being stuck on console is a horrible decision, this is bigger than that.
It's sad because MM most likely has their budget from Sony on the terms of Dreams being a playstation exclusive.. so the thing that made this possible in the first place is the same thing that doomed it
holy I can imagine the popularity this game would receive if it had a pc market, although I'm just glad that they manage to make the game possible in the place. cross fingers it somehow made a pc release some time in the future
@@lordofthe6string Yeah because it had more charm going for it, didn't have most of the issues mentioned in the video, and was produced during a time we didn't see much UGC focused games like this. Couple that with how much consoles, particularly PS3's excluding the launch price, were back then and you'd see how obvious the lack of an impact LBP got from being a PS exclusive franchise.
Btw this video should be required viewing for anyone even remotely interested in creating whatever they want. Dreams is truly unique and intuitive it's amazing what they pulled off
@@DavidDiaz-cg7id Don't expect to be able to export anything from it into a useful format, but if you like creating for creating's sake, a resounding YES. Especially if you have Move controllers, creating with a DS4 is very clunky.
If you're lucky enough to have not only Move controllers, but also a PSVR1 headset, Dreams should absolutely be considered a must have for anyone interested in 3D sculpting/level design.
@@twitcherthesingleplayergamecat Agreed, sculpting with the Moves in VR is an absolute dream. I would love something like that for PC. I have some great VR sculpting software, but there is *nothing* like Dreams for PC that has everything under one roof, from sculpting to logic to painting to animation to music creation.
I created dozens of games over several years beginning in Early Access and loved expressing my creativity, but also agree with your critiques, especially the UI. I actually used some of your logic and assets, and played many of your games. So glad you made this video. Thank you!
This gives me some closure. Dreams failing broke my heart. I do think a video essay like this could do with some title cards for the different arguments presented. You make a point about there being conflicting visions of what multiplayer would look like, but then you give your own argument regarding either side and they're sort of lengthy asides, so it gets easy to forget where we are in the greater through line.
Fair! Perhaps I'll drop some timestamps if I can get them to make sense. This is definitely one of those videos where I got carried away while making it and crammed in as much as possible wherever I could 😂
i'll tell you exactly what happened! look for baer cafe. look for mr.s baer's torso. it's not there. neither is months of my work because people at dreams didn't like it and censored it. it was private. what happened at dreams is a lesson for society. witches don't run society well. read it again. witches do not run society well. you didn't notice. i did.
One of the best videos explaining what Dreams "was" and how revolutionary it was. I agree with all the reasons you mentioned. My Dreams years where one the best gaming moments i've ever had.
I'll never work on anything as important or as cool as dreams again. Hopefully in a decade someone will break NDA or get permission to write a true history with all the messy details. If you want an idea of how much dreams did. Adobe spent years just doing sculpting for modeller and it was being built on top of medium with 3 of us from Dreams with that experience and it's just recently reaching dreams level... Just for sculpting nothing else
Kimau! How nice to see you here. I genuinely still do not understand how you guys pulled it off. I tried to wrap my head around the timeline, thinking about how many tools and features had to be figured out/month and it just doesn't compute. We are in a usability arms race right now and as you pointed out, the best top companies are able to do is emulate 1 of Dreams' 30 revolutionary features at a time. I also hope we get to see the development story someday. I'll keep holding out hope for a Noclip style doc. Dreams clearly went through so many iterations, such extended development and even after launch I imagine a lot of insane discussions and internal tests were held that we were never prevy to. There must be so many stories here wating to be told!
I‘m not even 100% sure if this is actually an answer to my point, but I‘ll bite: I‘m sure I have a pretty good idea of „who is screwing me“ in this particular case, but „Sony did a bad thing“ or „capitalism was doing capitalist things“ are truisms in this context that wouldn‘t interest me that much about a possible Post Mortem. I would much rather hear what Mm Team members did or didn‘t want Dreams to be, behause it seems like there wasn‘t a unified answer to that question. And where the whole thing went wrong. In my heart of hearts, what I‘d like most would be an almost „Psychodyssey“ level of transparency, although there‘s no chance of that happening…
@@schreppybroepke you're not, but (predictably) irma gorna tell ya. lodge. black and white tiles on the floor. obvious ties to anything that affects society whatsoever. john quincy adams was a member of the anti-"theseguys" party but that was a long time ago huh. since then these guys run the entire shithouse. duh. answer = obvious. answer = no one will ever try to deal with it seriously until they are screwing you in the face instead of in the ass. and that's what happened.
Man, this is the Dreams vid I've been waiting for!! I've been using Dreams since the beta & two parts of me are conflicted: One is just angry, wondering why it's always the more artsy games that don't get the big sales, & eyes on it. Two is actually glad that Dreams is done, & appreciate all the time I've been there. Thus moving on to other platforms like going back to Blender or using Godot for the first time. Since 2017 I've been working on a video game that has changed drastically over the years & only this year have I finally found the perfect setting, & I can't think enough that Dreams really helped me explore my visions & creativity like never before, it certainly made an impact on me.
My hope is that they somehow find a way to repackage and repurpose the tools rather than letting it go to waste. I still think an integration in to a new DreamsHome social space would be ideal. I know nothing of this kind is being worked on or even thought about at Sony.
So glad someone within the community made a video like this, you really can't understand how dope it was unless you really got into it, in the loop of spending hundreds of hours playing and creating with Dreams. It's a shame it never took off but I cherish the time I had with it.
I kept expecting "any day now, this game is going to go big" but it just never hit the mainstream. Even now, anyone I mention this game to seems to have never heard of it but think it sounds amazing.
The saddest moment was when end of service was announced and the much of the community collapsed on itself. It was like they forgot what made the game great in the first place. ‘Live service’ was really just an extra treat.
A lot of the community had unrealistic hope that dreams would get the exposure it deserved, the updates it deserved and literally everything that could've been; and waited many years for it.
I definitely had a lot of hope myself, it was horrible seeing the announcement and I nearly quit the current game project I was making just out of pure sadness.
@@nope-z5y Well, eventually I will too, but the dreams community is still alive. I plan on moving onto UE5, but I don't think I'll ever stop using dreams for prototyping.
I remember dreaming (no pun intended) about the possibilities of this game, and was totally crushed when it was only released on PS. It's an unprecedented, unmatched software that HAS TO BE SHARED before we forget about it.
SONY didnt promote it, people in general dont have the patience to learn to make anything Dreams offers ect ect. It was the most important game from the last decade and it died because it didnt make billion in passive microtransactions and because it gave people tools instead of modifiable levels.
I spent so many hours in Dreams! I loved making 3D models that were instantly ready for gameplay and animation. It was way faster and seamless compared to official PC tools where you are required how to figure out UV unwrapping, rigging, weight painting and more! What a time to be a part of the Dreams ecosystem during its beta. Once in a blue moon, I'll boot up Dreams and make a quick asset or two as it's still very useful for references. I'm forever grateful for MM making the LBP series and Dreams. Because of these experiences, l began making games in other engines
This was an amazing video, I don't think anyone else would've been more suited to make a video like this than you. It's sad what happened with Dreams, But I'm glad it happened at all. It helped me through one of the most rough times in my life.
Thank you! I think a lot of us can say Dreams changed our lives. It releasing during covid was such a blessing as well. Really made those days so much more bearable.
I may have said this before, but I admire your enthusiasm. I was actually thinking about the highs and lows of Dreams just the other day, and most of my thoughts closely mirrored what you adressed here. Dreams definitely deserves a lot more success.
I gave this game to a friend for his birthday. He barely even played it which is unfortunate. I played this during the early access period and became hooked. Definitely one of the most ambitious games ever made
Dude I never thought anyone would mention this masterpiece again. I always hammer it in to my friends how much potential it has and the fact media molecule abandoned it is disappointing
This is actually an awesome video. I did not think Dreams was so detailed in its ability to create literally anything. I used to play it a bit back then, but now this makes me wanna go back and check it out. I think that’s what I’ll do tbh, I wonder what awesome stuff people have made over the years.
Despite the community being very small, we are all still innovating amazing things and are very friendly. The same thing happened with LittleBigPlanet and before the servers shut some things they made were shockingly good things which didn't even feel like LittleBigPlanet.
I find very impressive how they broke so many molds and how ahead of its time it was, it still is, and how they got away compressing this in a console game while finding great ways to make it better despite the limitations, but in that platform it may have the same faith as LBP, is not like they have guaranteed success on pc or that platforms like steam would be better for it, I don't think is that simple, what I'm saying is if developers can't future proof their games, at the very least having a pc port, we can do it ourselves at some degree, and I would love to have a platform like this where the incentive is not money, but releasing a literal game engine like this on the pc sounds very complicated. If a book about videogames is ever made dreams needs a whole chapter, maybe not for its cultural impact but for the revolution it had the potential to make, the bigger the industry gets and the more known the game developing process becomes and the more evident is how important dreams was and still is
Intrattackout, one of Dreams' creative legends! Quality video, as always! People without PlayStation, couldn't/can't experience and even begin to understand, how much of an amazing creative all-in-one studio/engine Dreams was/is. A pity, truly a pity. Love the atmosphere in your Web Of Metal.
5:46 this is exactly why Dreams was special, the all-in-one engine really made it easy to finalize any concept you had in mind in a really short period of time. also you cant even run all the pc programs at the same time without risking it blowing up.
Not enough people appreciate how insane it is that you can edit and playback music in real-time, while the entire lighting in the game is calculated real-time, while all the logic runs real-time, while all the physics run real-time, while all sound effects play in real time, while all animations run in real time. On a base 2013 PS4 😂
@ now image what they could have done with the ps5 pro. i really hope they don’t drop the play, create and share aspect of their games for the next project.
I have over 4000 hours in Dreams, 1500 just playing creations. And my "Play later" queue is still full with high quality Dreams from Dreamers I follow,, recommendations on discord and still acrive curators. And every time I pick up the controller to create something it baffles me how easily I get something satisfying out of a session. I really hope we didn't hear the last of the Dreams project. Thanks for making a video on the matter. It's always such a bittersweet experience to hear the whole story again.
As a game dev, seing Dreams and it results was just as fascinating as sad. It's mindblowing tech used by creatives who made some true masterpieces. Games that would have deserved a huge audience. No PC, no multiplatform but the tinest of ps4 dreams ecosystems, not even most playstation fanboys ever heard of. I get why everyone who got into game dev dropped dreams once they realized that all the effort might not be worth it.
^this I can see how Dreams was too late to the market. Game engines like Unity or Unreal has become on par with this 'drag and drop' interface much like Dreams but with that added benefit of platform independence and game ownership. The reason I spent so much time building in LBP was because of the limitations. I wanted to build games and levels to play with Sackboy like he was a digital toy. Dreams was just to ambitious where building 'anything' really made me double think of the effort being a waste seeing as it will only live on a dyeing console.
@@wchorski With the direct LBP connection, Dreams must have been brilliant as a game but I really feel for ambitious devs who started bigger projects, seing Dreams slowly dying and not even be able to rescue their created assets to another engine. I've never worked with it myself but the option to modify existing level and have an instant result or use simplified tools to create something new, without crashes and compiler errors looks genius. Getting into UE, Godot, Unity etc comes with a steep learning curve and a tool like this, would be a fantastic entry point for interested starters. Exclusivity deals and the typical business nonsense probably won't allow a Dreams PC version but a system similar would be so welcome.
I’ve never felt so emotionally to a software/game before. The tutorial alone was amazing and this game set me on a path to learn, grow and create. It sparked something that keeps me alive. The story Art's dream holds a special place in my heart, strangely right beside Soul (maybe because of the jazz).
This is a really good video, great job. Very interesting commentary that stays entertaining and educational, great structure, and the visuals are well-planned. I was really surprised that some of the things you said I hadn't fully considered before, seeing as I was a Dreams creator for so long. The points about the target audience being incorrect isn't something I had consciously considered before. It didn't even register for me that the tutorials and introduction was so childish, because I played it once, didn't really pay attention, and never thought about it again. In the context of this video, the negative talk around PC dev was appropriate. It deserves criticism. But as I have been dedicating myself to learning many different programs on PC to continue solo dev, I have developed a great appreciation for the way things work. I also think that many very talented developers put in amazing work into making game engines and programs more user-friendly. Game dev on PC is more accessible now than ever, and it will continue to improve. I know it's easy to speak down on PC dev and say all the reasons it is so awful. It feels good to do that, and it is healthy in moderation. I just worry that a cycle of negativity around other creative options is so easy to fall into, especially for Dreamers. Dreams gives us such high standards for game engines that, in the long run, hurts our ability to branch out. How can you not be frustrated when things you could once easily do become very complicated. It's harder to keep an open mind when surrounded by validation for the idea of "I can't". Although it feels good, excessive negativity around how "impossible" PC dev is contributing to that mindset. It's something I have been made aware of in myself that I'm working on. I don't know if anyone needed to hear that, but I hope it helps maybe.
Fantastic video covering all aspects that Dreams had. I've personally played it for thousands of hours. What I'd love to see is for Mm to create a multiplayer game, cross-platform with multi-platform support, using their knowledge from Dreams. Imagine a Roblox or Fortnite but with Dreams as the building blocks. This can't possibly fail, right? It's hard for me to believe that Mm or Sony wouldn't take this incredible achievement further.
Dreams was absolutely the best game ever made for many folks, myself included. It defies classification; it was years ahead of its time on release, and continues to be so today too. Within ONE YEAR I went from doing a tutorial in Dreams, to watching several people on Twitch stream a unique game I made in Dreams and have a great time playing it. To some extent other games can help unlock people's creative potential (e.g. Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress), but in the process of making games in Dreams, you come to understand that your own creative potential is limitless.
Great video. Dreams is an amazing game. So many great memories... Just wish it had been more popular! Will be interesting to see what Media Molecule can do next.
You hit the nail right on the head. Then hit another. And another. This video covers my feelings about Dreams perfectly. Everything outside of that magical create mode was fumbled. Dreams has so much potential that I often forget it and am surprised again. It could foster such intense and totally varied memories. I have distinct pockets of nostalgia for individual projects in the game. A real curse that multiplayer never happened. Creating living, immersive little worlds with no one else to occupy them... in the years leading up to Dreams I fantasised with friends about a dream world we'd build and live in together, as varied characters, and all the crazy stuff we could get up to, basically being able to seamlessly integrate varied gameplay like vehicles or weapons. Dreams flowed so well that you could make things feel immersive and rich without much technical knowledge. In VR chat, half the stuff looks like paper, has shitty audio and terrible lighting. Much like LBP, Mm's rendering system really adds a lot of immediate tangibility to UGC, and their create tools were so seamless that if MP was added It'd likely let you stay together with other players and make things together without really breaking the immersion. Imagine PSVR2 support on top of that. Making logic in PSVR1 was like a utopian sci-fi experience. I was sitting in a room I'd built, programming intuitively into the 3D space around me, physically... with sunlight streaming in through the window and scattering on the frosty holograms I'd arranged around me. And PSVR1 is shit.
Yep, the PSVR1 implementation didn't take off because it was mainly just too little too late. PSVR2 has a content drought problem that Dreams would've solved so well 😥 Just another way in which this game almost made it.
@@intrattackoutI see no drought, right now I'm drowning in a FLOOD of top quality PSVR2 releases! I already own more titles than I can find time to play, and there's so much more on the horizon! 100% agree that PSVR2 support for Dreams would have been a HUGE addition, though
Thank you for this. Dreams, it's incredible scope of allowing full creative expression, it's wasted potential, it's and the way it was treated by Sony will always leave me heartbroken for what could (/should) have been. Dream on 🌌
I truly loved this game, wish more was invested in marketing. I didn’t know this game even existed until a year later. By that time people were leaving. It was a game to create experiences.. like that Hug me. My kids loved that game, Depression in a video game that just repeats. Creativity was dreams best asset. Dreams also taught me the basics for UE5 Blueprint. This video brings so much nostalgia thanks bro ❤
I really wish I got into dreams, LittleBigPlanet is the game that inspired me to want to work in a creative outlet as an adult, the charm of Sackboy, his world and it's intuitive create tools is what got me hooked on creating stuff which I enjoy, and is the reason to this day that I am an animator. Unfortunately, since Dreams released, I didn't have time to pour countless hours into learning the tools, due to me learning and pursuing animation professionally, and perhaps also because of the lack of a charming character and story like Sackboy to get me invested, I just used it as an occasional outlet to experience some of the community creations (and not even the good ones, just the more 'meme' focused ones, as they were easy to search for). I never really got chance to appreciate more in depth the creation tools were, and watching this video, it has incredibly shocked me in terms of it's scope. Great video, makes me really wish I gave Dreams more of a shot.
Incredible recap on Dreams story. It will always be the most fun way to start a game dev journey. I switched to UE5 two years ago and have found the transition to be seamless. There is an endless amount to learn, but if you take it piece by piece it starts to make sense and become fun!
Ooh nice! Are you involved with the Storror game? Your parkour mechanics in Dreams were so much fun! I myself still haven't been able to get far with UE5. Learned a (very) small bit of blueprints, basic environment creation and then pretty much stopped. I probably want to do too much too fast again. Got any tips?
@ I was working with the Storror game, but now I am focused on my own game. Working hard to bring it to PC, Mac and mobile! Already have the build running on my iPhone and its magical and exactly what i want in a parkour game. The best way to get into unreal is to just make a game. I learned everything through youtube and experimenting so i know you can too if you have a project to work on
@@henrybluefilms Awesome that you were able to make the jump! And developing for mobile as well? You've been busy! I still have many games I want to make so I guess it's really just a matter of putting my mind to it...
I got dreams around when the pandemic happened. I spent so much time in it. The pig detective games. the opposite day series. The random animations. seeing the limitations that I thought the game had be crushed, seeing incredibly made models. And even TV show pilots. dreams was something special and I just wish that it got the attention it deserved
I completely agree with this video. This is why I never remove the made in dreams watermark. I want everyone who sees my creations to know this is dreams because I feel dreams deserves more attention
Fantastic video! I think missing SackBoy, or a mascot, some kind of identity for dreams was also a huge part of its lack of success. You briefly mentioned it near the end. But not to the extent I think it deserves. Dreams has nothing unifying all of the games together. Nothing that makes you say, wow that's *Dreams* And not, something else. But how do you do that without sacrificing the extreme flexibility of the tools? A mascot! LBP has Sackboy, Minecraft has Steve, Roblox has the iconic lego like character model. And the Dreams has one too, your cursor guy! Though it is extremely underutilized, I don't even remember what it's called! But I remember Connie the cone! I know you can customize it a little, but give it more character, give it a bigger place in play mode by encouraging creators to use it for menus and other things. (is that even an option? I'm not sure) Even if creators could completely ignore it, giving the game a mascot could have gone a long way in giving the game an identity, and thus something for people to emotionally latch onto. This along with multiplayer are the two main reasons I did not stick with the game. Even though I put over 1000 hours into LBP1/2 and made countless levels. I was excited to make more in Dreams. But it didn't click with me, and many others. On an unrelated note, I held the belief that a PC port for dreams would be cool, but would be ultimately pointless. Why would anyone play or create in dreams when they could play any other real games? Or use the much more powerful software that already exists. I thought what made dreams special was that it was a game engine on Playstation. Giving console gamers the option to make their own stuff, and it is! But now I know it's more than that too. Your point about how it's all integrated into one system, and how stable, and optimized everything is, you really convinced me that Dreams would absolutely have a reason to exist on PC besides 'it's cool!' Even if you're not able to export, having everything in one place is a huge benefit! Along with the other strengths of Dreams that you outlined. I never internalized how fragmented creation tools on PC are, and how things could be integrated together until you told me in this video. Been watching your videos for a long time, but this is the first time I felt compelled to comment. Keep it up!
Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment! Dreams could've really used a mascot. And even more than that, it could've used in general more plug and play gameplay systems. Imagine they had a super slick platforming character + enemies + contraptions to go along with it. Or top down shooter, or beat 'm up etc. We had to make everything from scratch and no 2 creations were alike.
I'm new to the channel and I'm liking your quality of commentary, and while giving it feels like you're involving my intelligence of the industry makes me want to give dreams another chance. Good job my friend. If you keep this up I'll subscribe.
Got this game at the tail end of it's life (before PS Plus) and it took up 80% of what I played while my PC was broken. It honestly should've gotten that PC port. (btw those Sonic fan games you mentioned are actually kino, don't sleep on them)
Hahaha those Sonic fan games did get good! But in the beginning there were hundreds of kids dropping Sonic models into empty scenes and getting to the top of trending just off the name 😂
Great video. I agree with almost everything you said. Presentation, UX, target audience, and especially what your vision of Dreams as a platform could/should have been. The only small thing i disagree on, is that Mm would have nailed a sequel. They seriously needed some outside voices and visions to take this to the next level, i truly don't believe that they ever recognized their mistakes. They operate very much in an echo chamber and seem very content to continue as such.
I always try to have an attitude of: real devs are smarter than me and have reasons for doing things the way they do. But you might be right. They did have a lot of time to fix the low hanging fruit and little of the things they did seemed aimed at adressing core issues and pulling in a broader audience.
Man I grew up in my teens investing checks into supplies for my drawings, molding clay, painting and writing I used to be the kid who thought when playing games “how cool it would be to make something like this” then around 2020 I found this and it was literally a “dream” come true for my “creative hungry mind” it’s a shame it met it’s end but I’m not giving up on it completely
We all know the real reason Dreams didn’t succeed was because it didn’t have a Leaf Fleck… lol.. but seriously.. everything you said here is spot on. I knew I’d like it instantly.. I bought it early access and a physical copy as a backup too, because strangely enough I was concerned I’d lose access to it and was planning on it becoming a long term hobby. It is the only “game” I would not part with.
Awesome! Dreams is certainly not dead. Make something good enough and it can still go viral outside of it and get players to jump back in. So many own Dreams because of psplus. There are literally hundreds of thousands ready to get in, you just have to reach them somehow...
I wish I had the wealth of knowledge you covered in this video. I only got into dreams a couple of months prior to its 2020 release. I like how you covered some of media molecules possible mishaps too cause it’s a little hard for me because I’m biased towards dreams and would take it over Minecraft or Roblox any day but listening to some of the issues with it made me think about if Mm could’ve have fixed them or did something different either before or after release to get more eyes on Dreams then it’d be a lot bigger. If it’s possible I hope we can get a Dreams clone by another studio. Hopefully that studio can reach some of the potential that Dreams failed to reach
Dreams tried to do so much at the same time, mistakes were going to be inevitable. Maybe a bit controversial but I do genuinely believe Dreams could've had a much healthier playerbase for longer had Mm prepared better for the 6-12 months after launch. Creations were getting exponentionally better, but most of the ones pushing the limits quit during that initial period. Radio silence plus the hostile UI really hit hard.
@@intrattackout yea, because nowadays it feels exactly like that, radio silence. I’m still passionate about dreams as a creator, but seeing the playerbase decrease overtime was a bit discouraging to see. And I agree with the statement, if dreams went away tomorrow ( lol hopefully not) I’d be happy with the experience even tho I wouldn’t want it. It helped ease me into 3d character art so I’m grateful for that
Great video. With all the points you mentioned, I genuinely think it is possible to revive/remaster this game. Focus more on casual players rather than creators, change the aesthetic to have a broader appeal, market it better, and port it to PC, and add online multiplayer and I think the game could find bigger success. If I could, I would pitch it to Media Molecule/Sony and show them this video.
I’ve been trying to hype up this game on my channel with a series called “Hidden Indie Gems”, but I’m just a small channel currently. Hopefully people see more of this amazing game, there are so many talented indie developers out there.
People, this message has been brought to you by the one guy who possibly did the most to try and make Dreams more accessible to everyone, especially PSVR users, with his awesome creation and sandbox kits. I still don't really understand how Mm and Sony got the promotion of Dreams so drastically wrong, but thank you, Intra, for all your efforts to assist the creative community.
I'm hopeful that in the future, Dreams will live on through PS4 emulation, hopefully PS4 emulation that enables VR Dreams in a smooth and bug free experience that is almost there on the PS5 except for several show stopper bugs that kill workflow
Dreams is great and will continue to use it. I have 3 more projects planned to do, including two VR projects where I will also use your template because it is great. I do not make projects for likes or players, I make them because I would like to play them myself and they are not there.
I've been there since the first LBP game and participated in two betas, but sadly, I did not get the vest. I had fun and made friends who are sadly no longer there. But the fun of another one playing on it was a genuine experience. I love this game more than anybody else. I need those endorphins to return when I see and hear it again.
I think that the main issue that dreams has is BEING as good as it is. I was there since the early access and I’d say only now am I somewhat alright at most of the tools. It takes quite a long time to learn. And my magnum opus of projects that I’ve been working on is still to see the light of day, because I’d like to animate it - buuuut I don’t know how to animate. And it’s so hard finding collaborators. Also, unless you’re making a game, your creations…probably won’t see much use. One off assets like music and sculpts just never really get recognised.
Really good analysis ❤ What I never understood is why Sony did not work with MM to make a Dreams-like game creation tool for PS5 where the editor tools and renderer are always pre-installed and users can directly share (and sell) their experiences and assets on the Playstation store. Just a unified ecosystem directly on the console. This would have a positive impact on smaller studios wanting to do game development, greatly reducing the costs, while also taking away a lot of the pain because of their great tools and small size of all content. Next, Sony could have asked first party studios to create some experiences with them so gamers can instantly recognize that those tools can output great quality games. MM already solved most of the hard problems to make this work. The next steps could have been: multiplayer collaborative creation, version control, job listing, and Fiverr like searching for talent. I hope Sony will still do something like this for PS6, it will probably never happen, but we can dream.... 🤞
Firstly, Dreams was referred to throughout the video in the past tense, which is a shame as it is still up and running and new creations are launched every day - some of them very impressive. I still make a weekly pick collection of my favourites and a video every 2 weeks on my channel highlighting the best creations. So if anyone is intrigued to play Dreams but is disappointed that its finished, then dont be - get yourself a copy - you can play today. Otherwise I agreed with the vast majority of this video. As part of the group who came to Dreams through Project Spark, we were the most guarded and cynical as to the longevity of the game - as we had seen the Xbox version of this style of game creation play die in exactly the same manner with exactly the same issues and mistakes. It is a shame that Media Molecule never talked to anyone from Team Dakota or the fanbase who were ex-Sparkers on what pitfalls to avoid - as they seemed to fall into exactly the same traps - confusing marketing and an unclear elevator pitch, no multiplayer at launch, forcing players to go through a creation tutorial, emphasis on the wrong demographic - Project Spark and Dreams both targeted under 15s with cute modelling and family friendly gaming - even the under 15s in Dreams produce material unsuitable for their own age range. The name of the game was not unique enough to make searches for it easy on any media. Search for Dreams and you get mattresses and beds. Project Spark kept the "Project" part of the name which is normally reserved for unreleased games - so nobody new it had come out. A lack of tutorial help - I got so many comments on my tutorial videos about how difficult it was to make sense of anything in Dreams and what a lifesaver my tutorials were - I am sure other tutorial makers on RUclips got similar comments (looking at you TAPGiles) - both Media Molecule and Team Dakota endorsed my tutorial websites for each game - but really they should have been official sites with more outreach. Project Spark WAS on PC, and it didn't save the game - so I dont think Dreams on PC would have helped it either. Dreams and Project Spark died because of lack of players. The facilities to help players were not there for either game. Dreams has poor filters and search parameters - I desperately asked for a date filter multiple times - only to be told it was a physical impossibility - who designs a interface of games with release dates and does not let you filter on release dates? Games are visible for 4 weeks on Dreams up to 1000 releases, which is much better than Project Spark where at its height you could be visible for 4 hours but it did have a date filter. With a date filter I could look up any date any see what I had missed, without it Dreams games just literally disappear unless you know its exact name. There was no marketing on how fun watching and playing Dreams creations is - the emphasis was nearly always on the creation opportunities - and that desire is niche, especially on a console. Console owners want to play much more than they want to create. There will be comments that Project Spark was not remotely the same, that it was poor and not in the same league blah blah blah but it was made 5 years previous to Dreams and technology moves at lightning speed - so of course there are differences. But the games were so similar in their ethos, Sparkers and Dreamers are essentially the same sort of people and the games that were produced were not at all dissimilar in gameplay and themes. Media Molecule could have learned a lot by studying Team Dakotas failures, but they actually followed the same path which bewilders me. I offered to work for them multiple times to bring my experiences as a Sparker, tutorial maker, archivist and community member, but was unsuccessful in sharing my knowledge with them - and I think there were a lot of other ex-Sparkers who would have loved to also help Dreams by explain what worked and what did not work before. After 2 major flops of this genre it would have to be a billionaire who does not care about the bottom line to bring out another game like this - and I cannot see that happening.
the issue with dreams is it didnt have a game to play, a reason to buy it. plenty of games focus on player made content and creativity. but those games also had actual games on top of that and the player made stuff was just a bonus. Dreams "story mode" was not worth a purchase
I've seen some of the stuff when it came out, but i'm a pc guy, so now I WANT THIS ON PC ASAP!! Also, feels like Trackmania, where you have complex tools to create a shitty UI and an absolute shitty marketing direction.
I really am going to miss you and your dreams videos/content. The moment I heard Dreams "pull the plug" so to speak, I was just completely dumbfounded and discouraged. I saw the enormous potential of Dreams. I sold my PS4 so I could get the PS5 where I expected Dreams to fully thrive. Now my PS5 sits and collects dust. It saddens me greatly that Dreams failed. I will say, there is a newer software that isn't as powerful as dreams but does have a similar setup with sculpting and logic. The software I am referring to is Meta's Horizon Worlds. It has a similar visual programming language to Dreams and you can sculpt new assets (sort of) that you can then create logic that attaches to said object. The game is mainly geared toward VR, but can be played on your phone and pc. It is best in a Quest 2 or Quest 3 headset. You can make all sorts of games and mechanics within this software. The downside is it doesn't have a full music mixer/editor. It doesn't have the most elaborate sfx editor or animation editor. Most of the animations you can do in this a basic translation movements. The game automatically simulates what your character's animations look like as you walk around in the vr format. It is a live service software so at any time they could add these other features; however, if you are coming over from Dreams, don't expect the whole gambit of stuff. Still has a long ways to go before it can be even considered on par with Dreams. But it does feel like it is heading in that direction. If Meta can get there with Horizons, then I will happily forget dreams and move on; especially if Mm doesn't make a Dreams 2. If Mm makes Dreams 2 and adds multiplayer, quadruple+ thermo space, render distance tools (for pop-ins and LOD shaders), etc. Then I would be more than happy to return to Dreams. But if Horizons gets to where Dreams was and then some, then Dreams will be a mere memory.
I just got Dreams a day ago. I never even heard about it. I was a huge fan of lbp and would've loved to check out this game if I knew it existed and was made by Media Molecule. It's really a shame it didn't get more popular. It's amazing. But I do remember people criticizing lbp for moving more towards being a game creation engine instead of a platformer with a cute sack person. I think just not enough people wanted what the game provides, no matter how great it is at providing that
A couple months ago there was a leak showing a PC port was worked on but cancelled. My only last desperate sliver of hope is Mm's next game pulls in so much money it grants them a bit of leverage to reopen discussion on this front.
my problem was I didn't own a PS4. so it didn't matter how exited was for it when it release. I always though this game was way bigger for the close ecosystem.
This is great and raises A TON of excellent points - it has also kinda made me fall in love with Dreams all over again 🤣 One thing that hit particularly close to home was the idea of Dreams as not being a pipeline into „proper“ professional game design (whatever that may be), but rather a fascinating alternative to it. And to be honest, that‘s an angle to Dreams that even Mm sometimes didn‘t quite seem to grasp. One thing on the „engine question“: I was never really interested in the monetisation aspect, but both creations & tools being „trapped“ on PlayStation, so to speak, was always a problem, both as a hurdle for many possible creators and use cases, but also because you could never really quite own and/or distribute your creations Independently from Dreams. A PC version and/or export function - even a simple one that just allows you to download your stuff and play it in a kind of Container/Player would have been an incredibly important solution for that problem, even with zero monetisation in place.
Yes, that is an incredibly scary prospect! It‘s why I have recorded (and uploaded) playthroughs for most of my creations, in order to at least document how they did exist at one point in time… 😬
They could literally release it on PC and call it The Dream Engine. And sell it for a flat rate of $200, 300 Etc. But i know theyres legal to deal with
Sony temp intern: Wow, this looks like the future! Sony should buy this and turn the next PS console into a wild ecosystem of million games made by players and sold on the PS store. Sony exec: Naaah, I know what kids want. They want to play on this colorful multiplayer shooter. I have this sweet deal arranged to buy this game called Concord. This is Sony's future!
Dreams is why I bougfht my ps4. I've poured and still pour hours into it becuase it's my most happy art package. I know I'll keep painting and sculpting stuff with it, just for me (I'm a bit too shy to share my stuff, it's not that good but...)
The fact the Nixxes PC port for this was supposedly ready to ship but never released is *criminal*. I think about it sometimes, I wish I could have the modeling tools 😭 Its so intuitive and easy compared to using Blender or Zbrush
I sincerely hope the port "accidentally leaks", or actually releases
Man this such a sad thing my main issue with dreams is i need to use a controller to create stuff
While u can create them but it was destroying me mentaily and taking a lot of time compared to using blender and zbrush
Or Shadps4 gets to playing this game
@@josephjoestar6958 The DS4 is so clunky. Try to find a pair of Move controllers, they are even better than using mouse and keyboard on PC for 3D creation.
@@josephjoestar6958 I wish I could have tried it in VR. I'm still missing a real VR tool that works like this.
@@josephjoestar6958 the controller controls for creating is one of the best things within dreams imo lmao, within the first 5 hours you get used to it, but after the 3000 hours I have, its like... gliding through butter; doing literally every action within the create engine.
The problem is that this game is not on PC. If it were there this game would thrive, a whole engine being stuck on console is a horrible decision, this is bigger than that.
It's sad because MM most likely has their budget from Sony on the terms of Dreams being a playstation exclusive.. so the thing that made this possible in the first place is the same thing that doomed it
holy I can imagine the popularity this game would receive if it had a pc market, although I'm just glad that they manage to make the game possible in the place. cross fingers it somehow made a pc release some time in the future
Also the fact that you couldn't sell the games you make.
It didn't hurt LBP
@@lordofthe6string Yeah because it had more charm going for it, didn't have most of the issues mentioned in the video, and was produced during a time we didn't see much UGC focused games like this. Couple that with how much consoles, particularly PS3's excluding the launch price, were back then and you'd see how obvious the lack of an impact LBP got from being a PS exclusive franchise.
Btw this video should be required viewing for anyone even remotely interested in creating whatever they want. Dreams is truly unique and intuitive it's amazing what they pulled off
Haha yes, thank you! Dreams is so much more than it gets credit for.
Would you say Dreams is still a relevant creation tool worth investing one's time?
@@DavidDiaz-cg7id Don't expect to be able to export anything from it into a useful format, but if you like creating for creating's sake, a resounding YES. Especially if you have Move controllers, creating with a DS4 is very clunky.
If you're lucky enough to have not only Move controllers, but also a PSVR1 headset, Dreams should absolutely be considered a must have for anyone interested in 3D sculpting/level design.
@@twitcherthesingleplayergamecat Agreed, sculpting with the Moves in VR is an absolute dream. I would love something like that for PC. I have some great VR sculpting software, but there is *nothing* like Dreams for PC that has everything under one roof, from sculpting to logic to painting to animation to music creation.
ah, im just happy that someone keeps talking about this masterpiece of a game. great video.
Thank you! Not gonna lie, seeing any discussion on Dreams anywhere also makes my day.
I created dozens of games over several years beginning in Early Access and loved expressing my creativity, but also agree with your critiques, especially the UI. I actually used some of your logic and assets, and played many of your games. So glad you made this video. Thank you!
Awesome to hear you have experienced some of my creations! Thanks for watching!
This gives me some closure. Dreams failing broke my heart.
I do think a video essay like this could do with some title cards for the different arguments presented. You make a point about there being conflicting visions of what multiplayer would look like, but then you give your own argument regarding either side and they're sort of lengthy asides, so it gets easy to forget where we are in the greater through line.
Fair! Perhaps I'll drop some timestamps if I can get them to make sense. This is definitely one of those videos where I got carried away while making it and crammed in as much as possible wherever I could 😂
i'll tell you exactly what happened! look for baer cafe. look for mr.s baer's torso. it's not there.
neither is months of my work because people at dreams didn't like it and censored it. it was private. what happened at dreams is a lesson for society. witches don't run society well. read it again. witches do not run society well. you didn't notice. i did.
One of the best videos explaining what Dreams "was" and how revolutionary it was. I agree with all the reasons you mentioned. My Dreams years where one the best gaming moments i've ever had.
Same! It feels silly to say, but the dopamine highs of releasing things and solving logic problems genuinely can't compare to most games I've played.
Same
I'll never work on anything as important or as cool as dreams again. Hopefully in a decade someone will break NDA or get permission to write a true history with all the messy details.
If you want an idea of how much dreams did. Adobe spent years just doing sculpting for modeller and it was being built on top of medium with 3 of us from Dreams with that experience and it's just recently reaching dreams level... Just for sculpting nothing else
Kimau! How nice to see you here. I genuinely still do not understand how you guys pulled it off. I tried to wrap my head around the timeline, thinking about how many tools and features had to be figured out/month and it just doesn't compute. We are in a usability arms race right now and as you pointed out, the best top companies are able to do is emulate 1 of Dreams' 30 revolutionary features at a time.
I also hope we get to see the development story someday. I'll keep holding out hope for a Noclip style doc. Dreams clearly went through so many iterations, such extended development and even after launch I imagine a lot of insane discussions and internal tests were held that we were never prevy to. There must be so many stories here wating to be told!
Phew, reading/watching a true Post Mortem on Dreams one day would be absolutely priceless. Also painful, potentially, but still incredibly important.
@@schreppybroepke iy won't happen. you as a societ ycan't be honest with yourself about who is screwing you.
I‘m not even 100% sure if this is actually an answer to my point, but I‘ll bite: I‘m sure I have a pretty good idea of „who is screwing me“ in this particular case, but „Sony did a bad thing“ or „capitalism was doing capitalist things“ are truisms in this context that wouldn‘t interest me that much about a possible Post Mortem. I would much rather hear what Mm Team members did or didn‘t want Dreams to be, behause it seems like there wasn‘t a unified answer to that question. And where the whole thing went wrong. In my heart of hearts, what I‘d like most would be an almost „Psychodyssey“ level of transparency, although there‘s no chance of that happening…
@@schreppybroepke you're not, but (predictably) irma gorna tell ya. lodge. black and white tiles on the floor. obvious ties to anything that affects society whatsoever. john quincy adams was a member of the anti-"theseguys" party but that was a long time ago huh. since then these guys run the entire shithouse. duh. answer = obvious. answer = no one will ever try to deal with it seriously until they are screwing you in the face instead of in the ass.
and that's what happened.
A Dreams sequel, with multiplayer and a PC port, could be a huge success.
Man, this is the Dreams vid I've been waiting for!! I've been using Dreams since the beta & two parts of me are conflicted:
One is just angry, wondering why it's always the more artsy games that don't get the big sales, & eyes on it.
Two is actually glad that Dreams is done, & appreciate all the time I've been there. Thus moving on to other platforms like going back to Blender or using Godot for the first time.
Since 2017 I've been working on a video game that has changed drastically over the years & only this year have I finally found the perfect setting, & I can't think enough that Dreams really helped me explore my visions & creativity like never before, it certainly made an impact on me.
Great to hear you're still in the gamedev space then! Dreams is still the ultimate prototyping tool honestly.
My hope is that they somehow find a way to repackage and repurpose the tools rather than letting it go to waste. I still think an integration in to a new DreamsHome social space would be ideal.
I know nothing of this kind is being worked on or even thought about at Sony.
So glad someone within the community made a video like this, you really can't understand how dope it was unless you really got into it, in the loop of spending hundreds of hours playing and creating with Dreams. It's a shame it never took off but I cherish the time I had with it.
I kept expecting "any day now, this game is going to go big" but it just never hit the mainstream. Even now, anyone I mention this game to seems to have never heard of it but think it sounds amazing.
The saddest moment was when end of service was announced and the much of the community collapsed on itself. It was like they forgot what made the game great in the first place. ‘Live service’ was really just an extra treat.
I think the beginning of the end was when Mark bailed.
A lot of the community had unrealistic hope that dreams would get the exposure it deserved, the updates it deserved and literally everything that could've been; and waited many years for it.
I definitely had a lot of hope myself, it was horrible seeing the announcement and I nearly quit the current game project I was making just out of pure sadness.
@@ItsMeJuvyYT I have not been back since the announcement. I've moved on.
@@nope-z5y Well, eventually I will too, but the dreams community is still alive. I plan on moving onto UE5, but I don't think I'll ever stop using dreams for prototyping.
This is definitely the most comprehensive dreams video I've ever seen by far, nice job
Just make if so if you open dreams for the first time it immediately puts you in dying is cringe. The greatest game of all time
Thank you!
I remember dreaming (no pun intended) about the possibilities of this game, and was totally crushed when it was only released on PS. It's an unprecedented, unmatched software that HAS TO BE SHARED before we forget about it.
SONY didnt promote it, people in general dont have the patience to learn to make anything Dreams offers ect ect. It was the most important game from the last decade and it died because it didnt make billion in passive microtransactions and because it gave people tools instead of modifiable levels.
I spent so many hours in Dreams! I loved making 3D models that were instantly ready for gameplay and animation. It was way faster and seamless compared to official PC tools where you are required how to figure out UV unwrapping, rigging, weight painting and more! What a time to be a part of the Dreams ecosystem during its beta.
Once in a blue moon, I'll boot up Dreams and make a quick asset or two as it's still very useful for references.
I'm forever grateful for MM making the LBP series and Dreams. Because of these experiences, l began making games in other engines
This should’ve been released on PC. Games/Tools like this are lost on consoles that’s not the target audience.
the engine that created the masterpiece "wario dies in a car crash"
in all seriousness, great video. much like dreams, this deserves more attention
This was an amazing video, I don't think anyone else would've been more suited to make a video like this than you.
It's sad what happened with Dreams, But I'm glad it happened at all. It helped me through one of the most rough times in my life.
Thank you! I think a lot of us can say Dreams changed our lives. It releasing during covid was such a blessing as well. Really made those days so much more bearable.
I may have said this before, but I admire your enthusiasm. I was actually thinking about the highs and lows of Dreams just the other day, and most of my thoughts closely mirrored what you adressed here. Dreams definitely deserves a lot more success.
I gave this game to a friend for his birthday. He barely even played it which is unfortunate. I played this during the early access period and became hooked. Definitely one of the most ambitious games ever made
Dude I never thought anyone would mention this masterpiece again. I always hammer it in to my friends how much potential it has and the fact media molecule abandoned it is disappointing
This is actually an awesome video. I did not think Dreams was so detailed in its ability to create literally anything. I used to play it a bit back then, but now this makes me wanna go back and check it out. I think that’s what I’ll do tbh, I wonder what awesome stuff people have made over the years.
Despite the community being very small, we are all still innovating amazing things and are very friendly.
The same thing happened with LittleBigPlanet and before the servers shut some things they made were shockingly good things which didn't even feel like LittleBigPlanet.
I find very impressive how they broke so many molds and how ahead of its time it was, it still is, and how they got away compressing this in a console game while finding great ways to make it better despite the limitations, but in that platform it may have the same faith as LBP, is not like they have guaranteed success on pc or that platforms like steam would be better for it, I don't think is that simple, what I'm saying is if developers can't future proof their games, at the very least having a pc port, we can do it ourselves at some degree, and I would love to have a platform like this where the incentive is not money, but releasing a literal game engine like this on the pc sounds very complicated.
If a book about videogames is ever made dreams needs a whole chapter, maybe not for its cultural impact but for the revolution it had the potential to make, the bigger the industry gets and the more known the game developing process becomes and the more evident is how important dreams was and still is
and how they let themselves get shut down by a coven of witches.
This video is so good... ironically like Dreams itself it won't get as many views as it should.
Amen
Intrattackout, one of Dreams' creative legends! Quality video, as always! People without PlayStation, couldn't/can't experience and even begin to understand, how much of an amazing creative all-in-one studio/engine Dreams was/is. A pity, truly a pity. Love the atmosphere in your Web Of Metal.
Thank you, appreciate the kind words!
The controls in Dreams are absolute magic.
I really hope Mm continues to do what they do. Thanks for this video!
5:46 this is exactly why Dreams was special, the all-in-one engine really made it easy to finalize any concept you had in mind in a really short period of time. also you cant even run all the pc programs at the same time without risking it blowing up.
Not enough people appreciate how insane it is that you can edit and playback music in real-time, while the entire lighting in the game is calculated real-time, while all the logic runs real-time, while all the physics run real-time, while all sound effects play in real time, while all animations run in real time. On a base 2013 PS4 😂
@ now image what they could have done with the ps5 pro. i really hope they don’t drop the play, create and share aspect of their games for the next project.
Wow! Well done! This take on dreams was beautiful! Loved your insite!
Very smart take on the subject, your implication and your research on the matter really show. It's very informative too! Thanks for your work!
I have over 4000 hours in Dreams, 1500 just playing creations. And my "Play later" queue is still full with high quality Dreams from Dreamers I follow,, recommendations on discord and still acrive curators. And every time I pick up the controller to create something it baffles me how easily I get something satisfying out of a session.
I really hope we didn't hear the last of the Dreams project. Thanks for making a video on the matter. It's always such a bittersweet experience to hear the whole story again.
As a game dev, seing Dreams and it results was just as fascinating as sad. It's mindblowing tech used by creatives who made some true masterpieces. Games that would have deserved a huge audience. No PC, no multiplatform but the tinest of ps4 dreams ecosystems, not even most playstation fanboys ever heard of. I get why everyone who got into game dev dropped dreams once they realized that all the effort might not be worth it.
^this
I can see how Dreams was too late to the market. Game engines like Unity or Unreal has become on par with this 'drag and drop' interface much like Dreams but with that added benefit of platform independence and game ownership.
The reason I spent so much time building in LBP was because of the limitations. I wanted to build games and levels to play with Sackboy like he was a digital toy. Dreams was just to ambitious where building 'anything' really made me double think of the effort being a waste seeing as it will only live on a dyeing console.
@@wchorski With the direct LBP connection, Dreams must have been brilliant as a game but I really feel for ambitious devs who started bigger projects, seing Dreams slowly dying and not even be able to rescue their created assets to another engine.
I've never worked with it myself but the option to modify existing level and have an instant result or use simplified tools to create something new, without crashes and compiler errors looks genius.
Getting into UE, Godot, Unity etc comes with a steep learning curve and a tool like this, would be a fantastic entry point for interested starters.
Exclusivity deals and the typical business nonsense probably won't allow a Dreams PC version but a system similar would be so welcome.
I’ve never felt so emotionally to a software/game before. The tutorial alone was amazing and this game set me on a path to learn, grow and create.
It sparked something that keeps me alive.
The story Art's dream holds a special place in my heart, strangely right beside Soul (maybe because of the jazz).
I love this video.. underlines so many cool things about Dreams.
Totally agree. Martin Nebelong, Dreams' creative legend! Where do you create these days? Did Kojima hire you already? ;)
This is a really good video, great job. Very interesting commentary that stays entertaining and educational, great structure, and the visuals are well-planned.
I was really surprised that some of the things you said I hadn't fully considered before, seeing as I was a Dreams creator for so long. The points about the target audience being incorrect isn't something I had consciously considered before. It didn't even register for me that the tutorials and introduction was so childish, because I played it once, didn't really pay attention, and never thought about it again.
In the context of this video, the negative talk around PC dev was appropriate. It deserves criticism. But as I have been dedicating myself to learning many different programs on PC to continue solo dev, I have developed a great appreciation for the way things work. I also think that many very talented developers put in amazing work into making game engines and programs more user-friendly. Game dev on PC is more accessible now than ever, and it will continue to improve.
I know it's easy to speak down on PC dev and say all the reasons it is so awful. It feels good to do that, and it is healthy in moderation. I just worry that a cycle of negativity around other creative options is so easy to fall into, especially for Dreamers. Dreams gives us such high standards for game engines that, in the long run, hurts our ability to branch out. How can you not be frustrated when things you could once easily do become very complicated. It's harder to keep an open mind when surrounded by validation for the idea of "I can't". Although it feels good, excessive negativity around how "impossible" PC dev is contributing to that mindset. It's something I have been made aware of in myself that I'm working on.
I don't know if anyone needed to hear that, but I hope it helps maybe.
Best video I've seen on Dreams, thank you for making this!
Fantastic video covering all aspects that Dreams had. I've personally played it for thousands of hours.
What I'd love to see is for Mm to create a multiplayer game, cross-platform with multi-platform support, using their knowledge from Dreams.
Imagine a Roblox or Fortnite but with Dreams as the building blocks.
This can't possibly fail, right? It's hard for me to believe that Mm or Sony wouldn't take this incredible achievement further.
Dreams was absolutely the best game ever made for many folks, myself included. It defies classification; it was years ahead of its time on release, and continues to be so today too. Within ONE YEAR I went from doing a tutorial in Dreams, to watching several people on Twitch stream a unique game I made in Dreams and have a great time playing it. To some extent other games can help unlock people's creative potential (e.g. Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress), but in the process of making games in Dreams, you come to understand that your own creative potential is limitless.
Great video. Dreams is an amazing game. So many great memories... Just wish it had been more popular!
Will be interesting to see what Media Molecule can do next.
Thanks for making this video it is the perfect retrospective of this whole game
GREAT VIDEO Buddy, I miss Dreams, or at least what it was.
Dreams forever 🥲
You hit the nail right on the head. Then hit another. And another. This video covers my feelings about Dreams perfectly.
Everything outside of that magical create mode was fumbled. Dreams has so much potential that I often forget it and am surprised again. It could foster such intense and totally varied memories. I have distinct pockets of nostalgia for individual projects in the game. A real curse that multiplayer never happened.
Creating living, immersive little worlds with no one else to occupy them... in the years leading up to Dreams I fantasised with friends about a dream world we'd build and live in together, as varied characters, and all the crazy stuff we could get up to, basically being able to seamlessly integrate varied gameplay like vehicles or weapons.
Dreams flowed so well that you could make things feel immersive and rich without much technical knowledge. In VR chat, half the stuff looks like paper, has shitty audio and terrible lighting. Much like LBP, Mm's rendering system really adds a lot of immediate tangibility to UGC, and their create tools were so seamless that if MP was added It'd likely let you stay together with other players and make things together without really breaking the immersion. Imagine PSVR2 support on top of that. Making logic in PSVR1 was like a utopian sci-fi experience. I was sitting in a room I'd built, programming intuitively into the 3D space around me, physically... with sunlight streaming in through the window and scattering on the frosty holograms I'd arranged around me. And PSVR1 is shit.
Facts! Multiplayer could've been insane in so many ways. Combined with PSVR2 it would've been the ultimate VR killer app as well.
One of the best games I've ever played on PS4, I miss seeing new creations daily 😢
If it wasn’t for littlebigplanet or dreams i would never have started making music!
YES! It's so cool how Mm's games have genuinely changed the trajectories of so many lives.
I'm similar, but instead of music or dreams its video game design and mario maker.
I'd like to know as well.
A PSVR2 mode would be perfect, but it was not even ported to PS5. 😢
Yep, the PSVR1 implementation didn't take off because it was mainly just too little too late. PSVR2 has a content drought problem that Dreams would've solved so well 😥
Just another way in which this game almost made it.
@@intrattackoutI see no drought, right now I'm drowning in a FLOOD of top quality PSVR2 releases! I already own more titles than I can find time to play, and there's so much more on the horizon!
100% agree that PSVR2 support for Dreams would have been a HUGE addition, though
Thank you for this. Dreams, it's incredible scope of allowing full creative expression, it's wasted potential, it's and the way it was treated by Sony will always leave me heartbroken for what could (/should) have been. Dream on 🌌
I truly loved this game, wish more was invested in marketing. I didn’t know this game even existed until a year later. By that time people were leaving. It was a game to create experiences.. like that Hug me. My kids loved that game, Depression in a video game that just repeats. Creativity was dreams best asset. Dreams also taught me the basics for UE5 Blueprint. This video brings so much nostalgia thanks bro ❤
I really wish I got into dreams, LittleBigPlanet is the game that inspired me to want to work in a creative outlet as an adult, the charm of Sackboy, his world and it's intuitive create tools is what got me hooked on creating stuff which I enjoy, and is the reason to this day that I am an animator. Unfortunately, since Dreams released, I didn't have time to pour countless hours into learning the tools, due to me learning and pursuing animation professionally, and perhaps also because of the lack of a charming character and story like Sackboy to get me invested, I just used it as an occasional outlet to experience some of the community creations (and not even the good ones, just the more 'meme' focused ones, as they were easy to search for). I never really got chance to appreciate more in depth the creation tools were, and watching this video, it has incredibly shocked me in terms of it's scope. Great video, makes me really wish I gave Dreams more of a shot.
Incredible recap on Dreams story. It will always be the most fun way to start a game dev journey. I switched to UE5 two years ago and have found the transition to be seamless. There is an endless amount to learn, but if you take it piece by piece it starts to make sense and become fun!
Ooh nice! Are you involved with the Storror game? Your parkour mechanics in Dreams were so much fun! I myself still haven't been able to get far with UE5. Learned a (very) small bit of blueprints, basic environment creation and then pretty much stopped. I probably want to do too much too fast again. Got any tips?
@ I was working with the Storror game, but now I am focused on my own game. Working hard to bring it to PC, Mac and mobile! Already have the build running on my iPhone and its magical and exactly what i want in a parkour game. The best way to get into unreal is to just make a game. I learned everything through youtube and experimenting so i know you can too if you have a project to work on
@@henrybluefilms Awesome that you were able to make the jump! And developing for mobile as well? You've been busy! I still have many games I want to make so I guess it's really just a matter of putting my mind to it...
I got dreams around when the pandemic happened. I spent so much time in it. The pig detective games. the opposite day series. The random animations. seeing the limitations that I thought the game had be crushed, seeing incredibly made models. And even TV show pilots. dreams was something special and I just wish that it got the attention it deserved
I completely agree with this video. This is why I never remove the made in dreams watermark. I want everyone who sees my creations to know this is dreams because I feel dreams deserves more attention
Your multiplayer take is spot on. Great video dude, agreed with the vast majority of what you talked about.
Fantastic video! I think missing SackBoy, or a mascot, some kind of identity for dreams was also a huge part of its lack of success. You briefly mentioned it near the end. But not to the extent I think it deserves. Dreams has nothing unifying all of the games together. Nothing that makes you say, wow that's *Dreams* And not, something else. But how do you do that without sacrificing the extreme flexibility of the tools? A mascot! LBP has Sackboy, Minecraft has Steve, Roblox has the iconic lego like character model. And the Dreams has one too, your cursor guy! Though it is extremely underutilized, I don't even remember what it's called! But I remember Connie the cone! I know you can customize it a little, but give it more character, give it a bigger place in play mode by encouraging creators to use it for menus and other things. (is that even an option? I'm not sure) Even if creators could completely ignore it, giving the game a mascot could have gone a long way in giving the game an identity, and thus something for people to emotionally latch onto.
This along with multiplayer are the two main reasons I did not stick with the game. Even though I put over 1000 hours into LBP1/2 and made countless levels. I was excited to make more in Dreams. But it didn't click with me, and many others.
On an unrelated note, I held the belief that a PC port for dreams would be cool, but would be ultimately pointless. Why would anyone play or create in dreams when they could play any other real games? Or use the much more powerful software that already exists. I thought what made dreams special was that it was a game engine on Playstation. Giving console gamers the option to make their own stuff, and it is! But now I know it's more than that too. Your point about how it's all integrated into one system, and how stable, and optimized everything is, you really convinced me that Dreams would absolutely have a reason to exist on PC besides 'it's cool!' Even if you're not able to export, having everything in one place is a huge benefit! Along with the other strengths of Dreams that you outlined. I never internalized how fragmented creation tools on PC are, and how things could be integrated together until you told me in this video.
Been watching your videos for a long time, but this is the first time I felt compelled to comment. Keep it up!
Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment! Dreams could've really used a mascot. And even more than that, it could've used in general more plug and play gameplay systems. Imagine they had a super slick platforming character + enemies + contraptions to go along with it. Or top down shooter, or beat 'm up etc. We had to make everything from scratch and no 2 creations were alike.
I'm new to the channel and I'm liking your quality of commentary, and while giving it feels like you're involving my intelligence of the industry makes me want to give dreams another chance. Good job my friend. If you keep this up I'll subscribe.
Got this game at the tail end of it's life (before PS Plus) and it took up 80% of what I played while my PC was broken. It honestly should've gotten that PC port. (btw those Sonic fan games you mentioned are actually kino, don't sleep on them)
Hahaha those Sonic fan games did get good! But in the beginning there were hundreds of kids dropping Sonic models into empty scenes and getting to the top of trending just off the name 😂
@@intrattackout Ah I remember that happening as well when I first started playing but replace Sonic with Digital Circus and Five Nights at Freddy's
@@WolieIsHot Don't remind me of the FNaF era 😬😬😬
Great video. I agree with almost everything you said. Presentation, UX, target audience, and especially what your vision of Dreams as a platform could/should have been.
The only small thing i disagree on, is that Mm would have nailed a sequel. They seriously needed some outside voices and visions to take this to the next level, i truly don't believe that they ever recognized their mistakes. They operate very much in an echo chamber and seem very content to continue as such.
I always try to have an attitude of: real devs are smarter than me and have reasons for doing things the way they do. But you might be right. They did have a lot of time to fix the low hanging fruit and little of the things they did seemed aimed at adressing core issues and pulling in a broader audience.
Man I grew up in my teens investing checks into supplies for my drawings, molding clay, painting and writing I used to be the kid who thought when playing games “how cool it would be to make something like this” then around 2020 I found this and it was literally a “dream” come true for my “creative hungry mind” it’s a shame it met it’s end but I’m not giving up on it completely
Great video, thanks for making it!
We all know the real reason Dreams didn’t succeed was because it didn’t have a Leaf Fleck… lol.. but seriously.. everything you said here is spot on. I knew I’d like it instantly.. I bought it early access and a physical copy as a backup too, because strangely enough I was concerned I’d lose access to it and was planning on it becoming a long term hobby. It is the only “game” I would not part with.
Despite everything, my recent P.T remake published 6 weeks ago got nearly 16 000 plays.
Awesome! Dreams is certainly not dead. Make something good enough and it can still go viral outside of it and get players to jump back in. So many own Dreams because of psplus. There are literally hundreds of thousands ready to get in, you just have to reach them somehow...
Yes, but your not making a Single penny. How can you monetise it is what you should be seeking.
I wish I had the wealth of knowledge you covered in this video. I only got into dreams a couple of months prior to its 2020 release. I like how you covered some of media molecules possible mishaps too cause it’s a little hard for me because I’m biased towards dreams and would take it over Minecraft or Roblox any day but listening to some of the issues with it made me think about if Mm could’ve have fixed them or did something different either before or after release to get more eyes on Dreams then it’d be a lot bigger. If it’s possible I hope we can get a Dreams clone by another studio. Hopefully that studio can reach some of the potential that Dreams failed to reach
Dreams tried to do so much at the same time, mistakes were going to be inevitable. Maybe a bit controversial but I do genuinely believe Dreams could've had a much healthier playerbase for longer had Mm prepared better for the 6-12 months after launch. Creations were getting exponentionally better, but most of the ones pushing the limits quit during that initial period. Radio silence plus the hostile UI really hit hard.
@@intrattackout yea, because nowadays it feels exactly like that, radio silence. I’m still passionate about dreams as a creator, but seeing the playerbase decrease overtime was a bit discouraging to see. And I agree with the statement, if dreams went away tomorrow ( lol hopefully not) I’d be happy with the experience even tho I wouldn’t want it. It helped ease me into 3d character art so I’m grateful for that
im still so sad about this never releaseing on pc, because of that i never got to play it.
I lost any trust I had in Sony when their "ten year plan" for Dreams was just tossed away. I loved Dreams and spent hundreds of hours creating.
Such a great breakdown of al the aspects of why it was the big hitter we al wanted it to be especially about the UI experience
Quality video and quality game, sadly it got left behind.
Great video. With all the points you mentioned, I genuinely think it is possible to revive/remaster this game. Focus more on casual players rather than creators, change the aesthetic to have a broader appeal, market it better, and port it to PC, and add online multiplayer and I think the game could find bigger success. If I could, I would pitch it to Media Molecule/Sony and show them this video.
The potential was massive. I was there waiting years before release, abut left as soon as MM did.
Such a wasted potential.
I’ve been trying to hype up this game on my channel with a series called “Hidden Indie Gems”, but I’m just a small channel currently. Hopefully people see more of this amazing game, there are so many talented indie developers out there.
People, this message has been brought to you by the one guy who possibly did the most to try and make Dreams more accessible to everyone, especially PSVR users, with his awesome creation and sandbox kits.
I still don't really understand how Mm and Sony got the promotion of Dreams so drastically wrong, but thank you, Intra, for all your efforts to assist the creative community.
I'm hopeful that in the future, Dreams will live on through PS4 emulation, hopefully PS4 emulation that enables VR Dreams in a smooth and bug free experience that is almost there on the PS5 except for several show stopper bugs that kill workflow
I finally understand dreams after this video. Thanks dude.
Dreams is great and will continue to use it. I have 3 more projects planned to do, including two VR projects where I will also use your template because it is great. I do not make projects for likes or players, I make them because I would like to play them myself and they are not there.
Awesome!
I've been there since the first LBP game and participated in two betas, but sadly, I did not get the vest. I had fun and made friends who are sadly no longer there. But the fun of another one playing on it was a genuine experience. I love this game more than anybody else. I need those endorphins to return when I see and hear it again.
Media molecules next game will be in the Dreams engine so I suspect we haven’t seen the last of this style yet
They should port it to PC and make it open source
I think that the main issue that dreams has is BEING as good as it is. I was there since the early access and I’d say only now am I somewhat alright at most of the tools. It takes quite a long time to learn. And my magnum opus of projects that I’ve been working on is still to see the light of day, because I’d like to animate it - buuuut I don’t know how to animate. And it’s so hard finding collaborators.
Also, unless you’re making a game, your creations…probably won’t see much use. One off assets like music and sculpts just never really get recognised.
I dunno, I have had my tunes and sculpts used in plenty of projects.
@ it depends a lot on what you make and how versatile your creations are
Really good analysis ❤
What I never understood is why Sony did not work with MM to make a Dreams-like game creation tool for PS5 where the editor tools and renderer are always pre-installed and users can directly share (and sell) their experiences and assets on the Playstation store. Just a unified ecosystem directly on the console.
This would have a positive impact on smaller studios wanting to do game development, greatly reducing the costs, while also taking away a lot of the pain because of their great tools and small size of all content.
Next, Sony could have asked first party studios to create some experiences with them so gamers can instantly recognize that those tools can output great quality games.
MM already solved most of the hard problems to make this work. The next steps could have been: multiplayer collaborative creation, version control, job listing, and Fiverr like searching for talent.
I hope Sony will still do something like this for PS6, it will probably never happen, but we can dream.... 🤞
Now imagine how much complexity lies behind this usability to make it possible.
Dreams was the best experimental game ever made
Everyone, this is not a drill new Intra upload!
Well said! Very fair, very thorough. Fantastic video.
Because it was never ported to PC. Simple.
Imagine if its on PC + give ability to play multiplayer
Firstly, Dreams was referred to throughout the video in the past tense, which is a shame as it is still up and running and new creations are launched every day - some of them very impressive. I still make a weekly pick collection of my favourites and a video every 2 weeks on my channel highlighting the best creations. So if anyone is intrigued to play Dreams but is disappointed that its finished, then dont be - get yourself a copy - you can play today. Otherwise I agreed with the vast majority of this video.
As part of the group who came to Dreams through Project Spark, we were the most guarded and cynical as to the longevity of the game - as we had seen the Xbox version of this style of game creation play die in exactly the same manner with exactly the same issues and mistakes. It is a shame that Media Molecule never talked to anyone from Team Dakota or the fanbase who were ex-Sparkers on what pitfalls to avoid - as they seemed to fall into exactly the same traps - confusing marketing and an unclear elevator pitch, no multiplayer at launch, forcing players to go through a creation tutorial, emphasis on the wrong demographic - Project Spark and Dreams both targeted under 15s with cute modelling and family friendly gaming - even the under 15s in Dreams produce material unsuitable for their own age range. The name of the game was not unique enough to make searches for it easy on any media. Search for Dreams and you get mattresses and beds. Project Spark kept the "Project" part of the name which is normally reserved for unreleased games - so nobody new it had come out. A lack of tutorial help - I got so many comments on my tutorial videos about how difficult it was to make sense of anything in Dreams and what a lifesaver my tutorials were - I am sure other tutorial makers on RUclips got similar comments (looking at you TAPGiles) - both Media Molecule and Team Dakota endorsed my tutorial websites for each game - but really they should have been official sites with more outreach. Project Spark WAS on PC, and it didn't save the game - so I dont think Dreams on PC would have helped it either. Dreams and Project Spark died because of lack of players. The facilities to help players were not there for either game. Dreams has poor filters and search parameters - I desperately asked for a date filter multiple times - only to be told it was a physical impossibility - who designs a interface of games with release dates and does not let you filter on release dates? Games are visible for 4 weeks on Dreams up to 1000 releases, which is much better than Project Spark where at its height you could be visible for 4 hours but it did have a date filter. With a date filter I could look up any date any see what I had missed, without it Dreams games just literally disappear unless you know its exact name. There was no marketing on how fun watching and playing Dreams creations is - the emphasis was nearly always on the creation opportunities - and that desire is niche, especially on a console. Console owners want to play much more than they want to create.
There will be comments that Project Spark was not remotely the same, that it was poor and not in the same league blah blah blah but it was made 5 years previous to Dreams and technology moves at lightning speed - so of course there are differences. But the games were so similar in their ethos, Sparkers and Dreamers are essentially the same sort of people and the games that were produced were not at all dissimilar in gameplay and themes. Media Molecule could have learned a lot by studying Team Dakotas failures, but they actually followed the same path which bewilders me. I offered to work for them multiple times to bring my experiences as a Sparker, tutorial maker, archivist and community member, but was unsuccessful in sharing my knowledge with them - and I think there were a lot of other ex-Sparkers who would have loved to also help Dreams by explain what worked and what did not work before. After 2 major flops of this genre it would have to be a billionaire who does not care about the bottom line to bring out another game like this - and I cannot see that happening.
Honestly, im about to make a concept of a game that push the limits of dreams. Hopefully it release this year
Totally agree with your assessment. I pray it makes a comeback
the issue with dreams is it didnt have a game to play, a reason to buy it.
plenty of games focus on player made content and creativity.
but those games also had actual games on top of that and the player made stuff was just a bonus.
Dreams "story mode" was not worth a purchase
I've seen some of the stuff when it came out, but i'm a pc guy, so now I WANT THIS ON PC ASAP!!
Also, feels like Trackmania, where you have complex tools to create a shitty UI and an absolute shitty marketing direction.
I really am going to miss you and your dreams videos/content. The moment I heard Dreams "pull the plug" so to speak, I was just completely dumbfounded and discouraged. I saw the enormous potential of Dreams. I sold my PS4 so I could get the PS5 where I expected Dreams to fully thrive. Now my PS5 sits and collects dust. It saddens me greatly that Dreams failed. I will say, there is a newer software that isn't as powerful as dreams but does have a similar setup with sculpting and logic. The software I am referring to is Meta's Horizon Worlds. It has a similar visual programming language to Dreams and you can sculpt new assets (sort of) that you can then create logic that attaches to said object. The game is mainly geared toward VR, but can be played on your phone and pc. It is best in a Quest 2 or Quest 3 headset. You can make all sorts of games and mechanics within this software. The downside is it doesn't have a full music mixer/editor. It doesn't have the most elaborate sfx editor or animation editor. Most of the animations you can do in this a basic translation movements. The game automatically simulates what your character's animations look like as you walk around in the vr format. It is a live service software so at any time they could add these other features; however, if you are coming over from Dreams, don't expect the whole gambit of stuff. Still has a long ways to go before it can be even considered on par with Dreams. But it does feel like it is heading in that direction. If Meta can get there with Horizons, then I will happily forget dreams and move on; especially if Mm doesn't make a Dreams 2. If Mm makes Dreams 2 and adds multiplayer, quadruple+ thermo space, render distance tools (for pop-ins and LOD shaders), etc. Then I would be more than happy to return to Dreams. But if Horizons gets to where Dreams was and then some, then Dreams will be a mere memory.
I just got Dreams a day ago. I never even heard about it. I was a huge fan of lbp and would've loved to check out this game if I knew it existed and was made by Media Molecule. It's really a shame it didn't get more popular. It's amazing.
But I do remember people criticizing lbp for moving more towards being a game creation engine instead of a platformer with a cute sack person. I think just not enough people wanted what the game provides, no matter how great it is at providing that
They should just let Media Molecule release dreams on PC, and then you'll see it being much more widely adopted.
Since sony is nowadays porting their exclusives to pc, am still holding out hope for pc port.
A couple months ago there was a leak showing a PC port was worked on but cancelled. My only last desperate sliver of hope is Mm's next game pulls in so much money it grants them a bit of leverage to reopen discussion on this front.
my problem was I didn't own a PS4.
so it didn't matter how exited was for it when it release. I always though this game was way bigger for the close ecosystem.
This is great and raises A TON of excellent points - it has also kinda made me fall in love with Dreams all over again 🤣
One thing that hit particularly close to home was the idea of Dreams as not being a pipeline into „proper“ professional game design (whatever that may be), but rather a fascinating alternative to it. And to be honest, that‘s an angle to Dreams that even Mm sometimes didn‘t quite seem to grasp.
One thing on the „engine question“: I was never really interested in the monetisation aspect, but both creations & tools being „trapped“ on PlayStation, so to speak, was always a problem, both as a hurdle for many possible creators and use cases, but also because you could never really quite own and/or distribute your creations Independently from Dreams. A PC version and/or export function - even a simple one that just allows you to download your stuff and play it in a kind of Container/Player would have been an incredibly important solution for that problem, even with zero monetisation in place.
I think we'll really feel the pain from lack of export functions when the servers close down. Everything will just be... gone.
Yes, that is an incredibly scary prospect! It‘s why I have recorded (and uploaded) playthroughs for most of my creations, in order to at least document how they did exist at one point in time… 😬
They could literally release it on PC and call it The Dream Engine. And sell it for a flat rate of $200, 300 Etc. But i know theyres legal to deal with
Sony temp intern: Wow, this looks like the future! Sony should buy this and turn the next PS console into a wild ecosystem of million games made by players and sold on the PS store.
Sony exec: Naaah, I know what kids want. They want to play on this colorful multiplayer shooter. I have this sweet deal arranged to buy this game called Concord. This is Sony's future!
Dreams is why I bougfht my ps4. I've poured and still pour hours into it becuase it's my most happy art package.
I know I'll keep painting and sculpting stuff with it, just for me (I'm a bit too shy to share my stuff, it's not that good but...)