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I'm gonna simplify this further: Tim Burton made the shell, Henry and his team made the soul, and Danny gave it it's voice, making the film truly come alive.
@@Mafia34251 No. Tim definitely made the soul. The movie was gonna be very different if Tim Burton didn't literally kick a hole in a wall in frustration over the storyboard. Oogie Boogie was going to be Dr. Finkelstein in disguise. He would've been motivated to screw over Jack because he stole Sally away from him.
It's annoying that Disney wanted no association with this movie. But when it went from being just a movie with a cult following, to a very successful IP years later, and they saw the potential to milk this every Halloween for the rest of eternity, Disney was more than willing to slap their name on it. Especially considering Disney didn't really have a trademark Halloween IP to oversaturate the market with. And in the 90's, Halloween was quickly becoming the #2 commercial holiday. It's like how Shaq's biological father was never in his life. But once he became a successful NBA player, he wanted back into his life.
So the "Tim Burton's" part of the title is like the "Bram Stoker's" in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Bram Stoker didn't direct the movie, but it's based on his idea. I can see why Selick would be annoyed, though, as the marketing made it appear as if Tim Burton directed the movie.
I think people recognize that it sucks that Henry Selick doesn't get the recognition he deserves as director of this movie. And it's sadly so common in Hollywood for creatives to get screwed over (plus some people really being down on Burton with the later half of his career) that it causes people to want to overcorrect to the point I've seen people advocate for Burton's name being removed and try to make it seem like Burton basically had nothing to do with the film.
This whole situation reminds me of Animaniacs and Tiny Toons, where Spielberg gets the majority of the credit, despite for example, not creating the Warners. Seriously, Tom Ruegger doesn't get enough credit.
Unfortunately, a lot of it is the result of companies getting cold feet when test audiences fail to latch onto the product and have to resort to slapping the most popular name involved in the production to garner more attention in hopes of making more revenue.
I went from being equal parts terrified and intrigued to absolutely head over heels for this movie. I can’t watch it anymore unfortunately due to some trauma that happened and the movie was a harmless bystander but I really did love TNBC. I’ve been thinking about watching it again recently as a therapeutic thing to hopefully help break the issue I’m having, it’s just tough for me.
It's no different than watching Stephen King's IT or Dr. Seuss' The Cat in the Hat. The writer/creator gets the credit, until you can coast like Burton because you're the producer. LOL
So when South Park said Tim Burton hadn't made an original film since Bettlejuice. They were suprisely right. Who would have though Burton stole all the credit for Nightmare Before Christmas from Henry Selick.
FANTASTIC!! I can’t believe the meticulous research that goes into your compelling stories of the world of Disney - and Hollywood - history. When do you sleep?
I appreciate you for still cooking your videos and going if some fare well more then they otheres but they’re all are very well researched,,, you’re good at picking things I’ve never seen discussed or discussed to this amount of detail YURT
It always baffles me how this film wasn’t initially liked by young audiences. My little played the movie at 4 or 5 & LOVED it! And she was a standard Disney Princess kinda girl. When we finally went to Disney World when she was 5, the only people we waited in line to see was Jack & Sally! And this was ALL her, she was NOT missing her moment to meet them!
if you ask me, it is like the topic of anime films or projects in which is the mangaka creation, but the animation provided by the technical artists that even deserve the credit, case in point, Rumiko Takahashi's Urusei Yatsura the anime, directed by mainly Mamoru Oshii, makes interesting sense?
At the end of the day, it's not Selick's, or Burton's movie. It's Disney's. Just like how Elon didn't create Tesla or Twitter those are his companies, because he owns them. Disney didn't create ABC, Star Wars, Marvel, ESPN, Hulu, or Fox. It doesn't matter who created them, because they belong to Disney.
@Scorpio.Incubus because it makes perfect sense by your own logic. The car you buy is the designer's vision. So by your logic, your car that you buy isn't yours, since you had no part in the creative process. That's what you said. You're just mad that I'm using your own example against you as ammunition, and you can't cope with that fact.
Fascinating story! Thank you for going over clickbait titles calmly and fairly and explaining everyone's contribution. My fave part of the movie is definitely the soundtrack and Danny surely deserves more light on him every time the movie comes up! But everyone did an amazing job to bring the story to life and Disney can go choke on a candy cane for it's treatment of creators.
I think what I take issue with most is how this is put on such a high pedestal, people treat is as the be all end all of all things Burton, it overshadows his prior works. I personally think *Beetlejuice* is his best. But literally everything he actually directed including that is disproportionately overshadowed by this. Not to mention, it is a holiday film by its own nature, but its characters have become so pervasive, they are inescapable even in the dead middle of summertime. I like this film, but I'd like it more if it were played and advertised solely during the actual holiday seasons. It's ironically doing precisely what Burton was critiquing in the first place.
Not sure if this is relevant or not as it's mildly off topic: But this video weirdly reminded me of a question from a Disney trivia PC game from the late 1990s, The D-Show: Who Directed The Nightmare Before Christmas? There were four choices. Two out of the four choices were Tim Burton and the other was Henry Selick. I had originally chosen Henry Selick as my answer, but the game said it was wrong. The answer the game gave was Tim Burton. 🤣 Keep in mind, that the D-Show game was consulted with Walt Disney Imagineering and (the now late) Dave Smith with the Walt Disney Archives. So... Discounting WDI, it kinda goes back to where Walt Disney Archives who said who directed the film? Can't really ask Dave Smith as he's not around.
Whether he was there to hover and look over everyones shoulder or do something else because he trusts the team isn't of the question. The movie was his brain-child and his leadership style doesn't put into question whether the story or character designs would ever exist without him directly coming up with them himself. I dont think Henry would be happy with your answer that all of them made the movie.
What’s this? What’s this? This video is quite a treat! But look, the algorithm kept it from me! Unfair! I missed my chance, to do my dance, and then be able to give off a, goofy quip… (sigh.) what’s this?!
No, it's still Tim's. Film is, by its very nature, a collaborative medium. So, there are always people without whom a film would be very different, yet it is not "their film". It might be a lead actor, it might be the score's composer or it might be the hired-gun director working for someone else. Tim was in charge. If he wanted something changed, it was changed. If Selick wanted something and Tim didn't, who would get their way? Tim. It's Tim Burton's film and both Danny Elfman and Henry Selick were instrumental in making Tim's film as good as it could possibly be.
Wow, Elfman was lucky he didn't get dragged to holiday events. Oh how wonderful to be a child and NOT have to be forced to hang with toxic family members. You didn't miss anything Elfman. X-mas is not what its publicized as.
Agreed. Henry Seleck needs to accept that Tim created the material for his film. The film is his, but the foundation for his film belongs to Tim Burton. Just add underneath a film by director HENRY SELECK and move on SHEESH
All three did the work I don't see what there talking about I see tim make the art, mister animation copy his work and direct it and mister Danny Elfman did his music...that about it. No point of adding anything to it
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But I already paid the data brookers to expose my personal information already, you should have emailed me earlier.
Tim Burton made the world. Henry Selick and his team brought the world to life. Danny Elfman gave it a voice. And all three made it immortal.
Couldn't say it any better.
I'm gonna simplify this further: Tim Burton made the shell, Henry and his team made the soul, and Danny gave it it's voice, making the film truly come alive.
@@Mafia34251 No. Tim definitely made the soul. The movie was gonna be very different if Tim Burton didn't literally kick a hole in a wall in frustration over the storyboard. Oogie Boogie was going to be Dr. Finkelstein in disguise. He would've been motivated to screw over Jack because he stole Sally away from him.
The youtube algorithm makes no sense. How is it not promoting this video more, its ridiculous.
Thanks! I'm just glad to see that you and others who do watch are enjoying it!
It's annoying that Disney wanted no association with this movie. But when it went from being just a movie with a cult following, to a very successful IP years later, and they saw the potential to milk this every Halloween for the rest of eternity, Disney was more than willing to slap their name on it. Especially considering Disney didn't really have a trademark Halloween IP to oversaturate the market with. And in the 90's, Halloween was quickly becoming the #2 commercial holiday. It's like how Shaq's biological father was never in his life. But once he became a successful NBA player, he wanted back into his life.
YES. Never in 1,000 years would I guess that I'd ever read a comparison of Nightmare Before Christmas to Shaq, but here we are...
@@theothervault Watchaaa Classic Shaq Fu power play
So the "Tim Burton's" part of the title is like the "Bram Stoker's" in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Bram Stoker didn't direct the movie, but it's based on his idea.
I can see why Selick would be annoyed, though, as the marketing made it appear as if Tim Burton directed the movie.
Tim made the story (it was a book before a movie), Henry directed the film, that's what I've heard all these years as a TNBC fan
I think people recognize that it sucks that Henry Selick doesn't get the recognition he deserves as director of this movie. And it's sadly so common in Hollywood for creatives to get screwed over (plus some people really being down on Burton with the later half of his career) that it causes people to want to overcorrect to the point I've seen people advocate for Burton's name being removed and try to make it seem like Burton basically had nothing to do with the film.
This whole situation reminds me of Animaniacs and Tiny Toons, where Spielberg gets the majority of the credit, despite for example, not creating the Warners. Seriously, Tom Ruegger doesn't get enough credit.
Unfortunately, a lot of it is the result of companies getting cold feet when test audiences fail to latch onto the product and have to resort to slapping the most popular name involved in the production to garner more attention in hopes of making more revenue.
I went from being equal parts terrified and intrigued to absolutely head over heels for this movie. I can’t watch it anymore unfortunately due to some trauma that happened and the movie was a harmless bystander but I really did love TNBC. I’ve been thinking about watching it again recently as a therapeutic thing to hopefully help break the issue I’m having, it’s just tough for me.
I'm so sorry that this movie was ruined for you. I truly hope that you overcome your trauma. Peace be with you
What mkaylor said. That's terrible and all the strength to you in your pursuit of progress and growth! 💜
It's no different than watching Stephen King's IT or Dr. Seuss' The Cat in the Hat. The writer/creator gets the credit, until you can coast like Burton because you're the producer. LOL
So when South Park said Tim Burton hadn't made an original film since Bettlejuice. They were suprisely right.
Who would have though Burton stole all the credit for Nightmare Before Christmas from Henry Selick.
FANTASTIC!! I can’t believe the meticulous research that goes into your compelling stories of the world of Disney - and Hollywood - history. When do you sleep?
Thanks so much!
I appreciate you for still cooking your videos and going if some fare well more then they otheres but they’re all are very well researched,,, you’re good at picking things I’ve never seen discussed or discussed to this amount of detail YURT
Thanks - I really appreciate that. So awesome that people still enjoy my stuff and keep on coming back for more!
An ESL student, perhaps?
I'm sure Disney saw the same thing in Tim as they saw in Rolly Crump
I cant imagine this movie without Edward Gorey and Edgar Alan Poe
no way when i saw oingo boingo i lost it. I love tim burton and oingo boingo and had no idea about the connection.
Proud of the sponsor! Keep up the good stuff!!
Thanks so much! Couldn't have done it without all of you!
It always baffles me how this film wasn’t initially liked by young audiences. My little played the movie at 4 or 5 & LOVED it! And she was a standard Disney Princess kinda girl. When we finally went to Disney World when she was 5, the only people we waited in line to see was Jack & Sally! And this was ALL her, she was NOT missing her moment to meet them!
if you ask me, it is like the topic of anime films or projects in which is the mangaka creation, but the animation provided by the technical artists that even deserve the credit, case in point, Rumiko Takahashi's Urusei Yatsura the anime, directed by mainly Mamoru Oshii, makes interesting sense?
Totally!
Did growing up in Southern California just make people weird?
I’m not a Disney fan but you’re making me want to subscribe to Disney +. Excellent videos!!!
Thanks so much!
At the end of the day, it's not Selick's, or Burton's movie. It's Disney's. Just like how Elon didn't create Tesla or Twitter those are his companies, because he owns them. Disney didn't create ABC, Star Wars, Marvel, ESPN, Hulu, or Fox. It doesn't matter who created them, because they belong to Disney.
True story. We're here arguing about who's film Nightmare is while Disney's just counting all the profit it's made off of it..
@Scorpio.Incubus did you build your house? Did you build your car? Did you build your phone? If not, then by your logic, they're not yours.
@Scorpio.Incubus because it makes perfect sense by your own logic. The car you buy is the designer's vision. So by your logic, your car that you buy isn't yours, since you had no part in the creative process. That's what you said. You're just mad that I'm using your own example against you as ammunition, and you can't cope with that fact.
@@bunwithgun1587 but if you owned the rights, you could put "bunwithgun's" overt the title
Fascinating story! Thank you for going over clickbait titles calmly and fairly and explaining everyone's contribution. My fave part of the movie is definitely the soundtrack and Danny surely deserves more light on him every time the movie comes up! But everyone did an amazing job to bring the story to life and Disney can go choke on a candy cane for it's treatment of creators.
So glad you enjoyed this one!
Thanks man, really enjoy your content
Thanks! So glad you're enjoying everything!
I think what I take issue with most is how this is put on such a high pedestal, people treat is as the be all end all of all things Burton, it overshadows his prior works. I personally think *Beetlejuice* is his best. But literally everything he actually directed including that is disproportionately overshadowed by this.
Not to mention, it is a holiday film by its own nature, but its characters have become so pervasive, they are inescapable even in the dead middle of summertime.
I like this film, but I'd like it more if it were played and advertised solely during the actual holiday seasons. It's ironically doing precisely what Burton was critiquing in the first place.
Not sure if this is relevant or not as it's mildly off topic:
But this video weirdly reminded me of a question from a Disney trivia PC game from the late 1990s, The D-Show: Who Directed The Nightmare Before Christmas?
There were four choices. Two out of the four choices were Tim Burton and the other was Henry Selick. I had originally chosen Henry Selick as my answer, but the game said it was wrong. The answer the game gave was Tim Burton. 🤣
Keep in mind, that the D-Show game was consulted with Walt Disney Imagineering and (the now late) Dave Smith with the Walt Disney Archives. So... Discounting WDI, it kinda goes back to where Walt Disney Archives who said who directed the film? Can't really ask Dave Smith as he's not around.
a sponsored video!! this channel is getting bigger and bigger! love the content man keep it up!
Thanks so much! I'm always terrified that viewers will be turned off to them, so I appreciate the love!
Whether he was there to hover and look over everyones shoulder or do something else because he trusts the team isn't of the question.
The movie was his brain-child and his leadership style doesn't put into question whether the story or character designs would ever exist without him directly coming up with them himself.
I dont think Henry would be happy with your answer that all of them made the movie.
SPECTACULAR fun and so informative! I'll follow your voice anywhere...
So glad you enjoyed it!
I’ll have to share this for tomorrow but I’m looking forward to watching it❤
Hope you enjoy!
music=danny
art=tim
story=tim
screenplay=caroline
sculptor=henry
animator=henry
director=henry
He did not steel that movie as he wrote a poem it’s based on
No acknowledgement of The nightmare before Christmas in kingdom hearts? :-)
I acknowledge it in my Oogie's Revenge video (kinda)...
What’s this? What’s this? This video is quite a treat! But look, the algorithm kept it from me! Unfair!
I missed my chance, to do my dance, and then be able to give off a, goofy quip… (sigh.) what’s this?!
No worries - Just glad you were able to find this one!
@@theothervault And I was glad it was Tim Burton themed I’ve been holding that one in for a WHILE!
Let's just go with it's a group effort and that's that
No, it's still Tim's. Film is, by its very nature, a collaborative medium. So, there are always people without whom a film would be very different, yet it is not "their film". It might be a lead actor, it might be the score's composer or it might be the hired-gun director working for someone else.
Tim was in charge. If he wanted something changed, it was changed. If Selick wanted something and Tim didn't, who would get their way? Tim.
It's Tim Burton's film and both Danny Elfman and Henry Selick were instrumental in making Tim's film as good as it could possibly be.
So you're saying that Tim being in charge is what makes Nightmare his? Do you extend that logic to the Disney execs, who greenlit the film, as well?
They are saying that Tim had the most creative control. He guided everything. Disney execs were not directing on a creative level were they?
Id love to see a Forbidden Zone video
That would be a WILD deep dive!
So Jim Henson and Dr Seuss shouldn't get credit for their creations cause they didn't direct every episode/movie
It's always a team effort
Wow, Elfman was lucky he didn't get dragged to holiday events. Oh how wonderful to be a child and NOT have to be forced to hang with toxic family members. You didn't miss anything Elfman. X-mas is not what its publicized as.
This movie is proof that having two or even more dads is fine.
It was Agatha all along🎉
Agreed. Henry Seleck needs to accept that Tim created the material for his film. The film is his, but the foundation for his film belongs to Tim Burton. Just add underneath a film by director HENRY SELECK and move on SHEESH
7:27 16:40
This is what you get when you turn your name into a "brand"
American McGee.
END OF STORY
All three did the work I don't see what there talking about I see tim make the art, mister animation copy his work and direct it and mister Danny Elfman did his music...that about it. No point of adding anything to it
only 43 likes is criminal
Ha! I'm just glad to hear that you enjoyed this one!
Burton is a hack - he hasn't done anything good for years and years and years - and the reason this movie is good is because of Henry!
THIS IS A TIM BURTON ORIGINAL AND THAT'S IT! DISNEY GAVE THE CREDIT TO THE ONE AND ONLY MASTER MIND BEHIND IT.
I'M SORRY, BUT THAT'S HOW IT IS
Henry Selick is a great director but he is jelous of Tim Burton talent.