The springs are called “floor mount spring isolators” they are used to keep vibrations from equipment from transferring through the floor and are made in all shapes and sizes.
Yup they are the kind made for industrial grade applications to isolate heavy duty vibrations and keep decibels within certain safety limits and stop vibrations to or from other equipment. They can allow it vibrate more freely as well so they can enhance the effect of bass transducers.
What about the “shelves” - anyone find what can be used to replicate this? Edit: never mind. These are custom brackets, I couldn’t find similar, and they’re now selling just the brackets, springs and hardware.
The springs are a genius idea. I have the same exact transducers and they’re great. If they sold a package with just the springs, legs, and mounts I’d be interested.
Came here to say the same, if they sell a package of the springs with the ability to choose different mounting options (I would like to attach to a Next Level F-GT if possible) then I will be getting it ASAP!
Yeah, same here. I already have four transducers like in thr vid and USB amps. Just need trh mounts and springs. This is an amazing idea. Definitely going to princess auto later today to look for heavy duty springs. Maybe a light duty coil over or something. Great video as always man!!!
I have to apologize firstly as i couldn't bring myself to watch the video through the full way yet because its ridiculous, they you have moving parts through a ridged setup the movement from one part will be moved through the non moving part to the next moving part, this is a absolutely terrible idea! ok i will now go and watch the rest of this video
I tried the kit and loved it. It makes the whole rig feels alive. Next to a full motion rig (add a couple zeros to the price of this), it is the best system I have seen so far. Everyone can buy a couple transducers and an amp but the value proposition of this kit is the engineering that went into the legs, mounts and springs. The price is incredible compared to what I would pay to have custom made legs & mounts and sourcing the right grade of industrial springs. The guy that put this thing together must have spent an enormous amount of time tweaking it to make the rig feel alive like this. Much better than a buttkickers; keeps vibration down, wife happy and children sleeping.
Agreed on the value proposition, just breaking down the costing of individual shakers, amps and 4 channel usb sound card already exceeds the cost of this whole kit using common sourcing like Amazon. Definitely could DIY this if you could come up with suitable mounts (which they've done) but definitely not cheaper. Currently I just have a couple of smaller pucks mounted to my seat and that's pretty amazing as it is, I can appreciate how much more this would add. Definitely will be considering this when my new profile rig arrives.
Could you elaborate on exactly what this kit does? In regards to the springs. Is it just to isolate the vibrations so it doesn't disperse to the floor?
To those wondering regarding my previous comment - The springs will isolate noise and vibrations throughout the environment. As you're isolating the vibrations to just the rig, this can increase the feel of the transducers. That being said, is it a necessity? Absolutely not. Is it nice to have? Absolutely is. Will there be a drastic difference if you were to isolate or not in regards to experience? Not at all but of course depending on the strength of the transducers used. Who will benefit from this? Those living in an environment in which the day-to-day use of your rig annoys/affects the others around you.
Mike, thanks for doing the review, I appreciate it. I'll post answers here to some of the questions below for convenience. 1. Spring+Mounts only kit? I wasn't expecting this, but it makes sense. I'm working on it and will post it as an option in the store as soon as it's sorted. 2. Supported rig weight? The springs used here support 220lbs/100kg front and 330lb/150kg rear, so 550lb/250kg total. We're testing some stronger rear springs, but I've met Mike and he's a big guy, so if they hold him they will hold most. 3. Why not isolate each transducer from the rig with dampers? Cars have rigid chassis, so the vibrations permeate the entire chassis while also giving feedback on their origin. This system accurately replicates that. A few limited types of feedback, like abs pedal pulsing, can be very localized but that's quite distinct from the broad range of engine, road, transmission, and curb vibrations that travel through the entire car and bring a rig to life. 4. Will it work with non-8020 rigs? Only if you're MacGyver (even then, no). There are too many variations in non-8020 style rigs to create a bracket for all of them. The brackets support the weight of the rig and transmit the vibrations, so a solid mounting is a must. 5. Total kit weight? 36lbs/16kg 6. What if I don't like the posted tunings? You can send us yours and we'll post it on the site. Everyone likes different settings so it's good to have a place to share them. If there are any more questions I'll reply here or in a faq on the site, or just email me. Cheers. btw I too would love to see a back to back comparison of this kit and the Buttkicker Mike reviewed a few weeks ago.
Great review. I’ve wanted to add motion to my aluminum rig but didn’t want to spend that much. This looks like a great compromise. Glad you’re feeling better.
Interesting! this all the exact same gear I had individually sourced for my rig during the pandemic to create my own “buttkicker” system. It works great btw. Super immersive for flight and driving. I wasn’t trying to make a motion system though, just to be a better neighbor and damp the vibrations for apartment life.
Fantastic!!! I already have the exact same 4 transducers and even the same cheap usb-sound adapter. They are very smart to also sell the mounts and springs for those who already have most of the pieces . I would have not even considered it . Since, I already had the transducers. But just offering the springs and mounts for $210 + $32 Shipping!! That's a good deal. Even just sourcing the springs and mounts would have cost me nearly the same maybe even more? Not to mention the hours and days of researching trying to find the correct springs. Good job Slip-Angle !!
This looks like a pseudo motion system for the rig. It would be great if you make another video going in depth on how it feels and how is this different from just using transducers without springs, it would really help because this looks like something that can somewhat substitute a motion rig for those who cant run one because of budget or space constraints. Either way good review. Looking forward to a follow up after more testing.
Thanks so much. It’s not a replacement for my motion, but for $500 it seems like a great way to dip your toes into feeling sim racing through more than your wheel.
I was going to ask the same questions. I'm going to do a full motion rig in the future and I'm trying to determine the best set up for my space and budget. I'd like to do a combo set up for racing and flight. Was intrigued by the Yaw VR system. Glad you're feeling better Mike! I've had Covid twice in the past 3 years. No fun either time. God bless and race on 👍😎🏁
Were you able to test it with the shakers disabled? So just the springs passively doing their thing. The majority of the deflection/displacement of the springs seems to be coming from your body mecanics of driving like fighting a DD wheel or working the pedals and leaning around in the seat. I wonder if you still get the motion effect with the shakers disabled.
Can you distinguish left/right vibrations on this setup? When shakers mounted to the sides of the rig people say left/right is indistinguishable since vibrations travel through the rig, but mounting shakers directly onto springs is interesting. Note that you need a blind test for this since vision and audio from the car tricks our mind.
This is resolved in tuning. I have a four corners shaker setup on an aluminum rig. I 3d printed shaker mounts ( a lot of trial and error) so they can induce more force. Tweaking frequency snd power can have dramatic effect on source recognition. TLDR: frequencies too low become muddled within the chassis.
Would love to see how you feel this compares to the SRS shakekit seat pad, I believe the new version has 6 transducers, and seems to be a lot easier to install. I have the old version with 4 transducers, and I love it, but I've never tried anything else
Fascinating product - definitely seems like a neat niche below seat movers but above a single buttkicker. I'm a huge fan of haptics for Sim Rigs - once my Buttkicker stopped working I couldn't go back to nothing (I replaced with a cheap chinese Amp and small Dayton transducers) Great review as always Mike and hope you're feeling back to full health soon :)
equivalent, I'd say - as long as you get similar power outputs to the BK's@@dvc1867 - and you can more easily achieve stereo/quad effects with smaller transducers than the bulkier BK 'arms'. It's just about taking a breath and being a little brave with DIY, but worth it. the software (SimHub or SimXPeriences Sim Commander for example) adds cost though, but is essential
Nice video, I’ve had spring isolator’s for a few years now, and they also do great job of keeping the vibration with in the rig. Acting like a shield between the rig and the floor.
I didnt think I needed springs, setup Simhub to have the RPM idle in game. Went down 1 floor to the kitchen and it felt like there was a lobed cam race car upstairs.
Nice idea with the springs. What I really want to know is how well the springs prevent the vibration from traveling through the floor as this is my biggest issue with running transducers. My rig is on the 2nd floor and the vibration travels through the floor even with rubber isolators.
I was just logging on to order a buttkicker setup for my gt-omega prime when I saw this video. Looks like it may be just what I need. Really helpful seeing that it works for you since I'm about your size.
The gear itself is way above my pay-grade, Mike. But sorry to hear you had such a hard time with Covid. But good to see your at least somewhat on the mend now....... As we need more SimRacing604 in our Sim Racing lives.
Man Mike So glad to hear and see you doing better. Thanks for this great review and SlipAngle's approach seems like an affordable and effective alternative for quality haptic feedback.
It would be interesting to see the Transducers remain in each corner, but move the front springs rearward so your weight is evenly distributed over the springs
Bro get well soon bud the beginning of July I caught covid and I'm still having some issues, but we're getting there. This looks like a great option for ppl that don't want to go full motion!
I absolutely love the springs, and may even go back to tranducers after seeing these. Setup headache aside, the one issue that I had with the buttkickers was the vibration through the floor. You know how bad recording can be with all that vibration, so you could imagine how much my wife loved hearing the dresser rattle all night 🤣🤣 The price is a little high to just jump on, but certainly fair and worth saving for, thanks for the great review!
Thanks for this information and review on this kind of motion system. Going out to their website it looks like they have a more expensive system for 650 dollars which also has more power to provide for the motion effects. I don't have any kind of Racing Rig right now, but just learning what and how things work with a Rig. Take care.
Couldn't see clearly in the vides where exactly you mounted the front transducers/springs. There a way you can send a link to a side view photo to see where they are exactly at the front? I have the same NLR GT Elite rig and don't have much space, so might have to move back the vertical wheelbase bar and the pedal support forward.
I had to move back my vertical bars so there's 5.5" space in the front for them to fit. For the rear, don't you have issues/concerns when getting out of the seat risking scratching your left leg at the sharp edges of the transducer/bracket?
I am impressed at the price. I may have to take Slip-Angle up on this system. When I got a wheel stand and was able to feel the steering wheel shake on the pedal deck (with a Fanatec CSR), that added a lot more immersion to the Sims I was playing. When I upgrade to an aluminum profile rig, I'll get this kit. First, being on springs would help on an uneven floor, and second, the idea makes sense.
Curious about when he said he used the default profile in simhub? Then found the slip angle profile? Where do you find profile in simhub and how do you use them. I have a small transducer on my throttle and brake.wondering about a profile already in simhub?
Sounds like the company read into some stuff me and a few mates were getting into a decade ago already, some might remember me and MrLatte, HoiHman, Carson79 and ilonioum from over at GTplanet way back discussing matters with Berney Villers from SimXperience Simvibe. At the time we were still trying to pioneer dampers, delay to change the seating position relative to the 4 tyres of your virtual car. Which really added an extra dimension in feeling the size of a car, which aided in judging distances to a curb or how far you are onto a curb or the gras. This delay use is something I could never seem to get across in writing to people around the globe though. Basically you use a DSP (I had a Behringer iNuke amp with built-in DSP) and use the function that you in essence also have on a 5.1 to 7.2 AV Receiver, the function to set the distance of your speakers relative to your seating position in the room. It's the same thing with tactile speakers. You just have to get the wheel base measurements of the car you are driving and measure out the relative position of your seat in relation to the tyre positions. Than set the delay/distance according for each transducer that respresents that one tyre, and done! Now your rig has been virtually positioned inside the haptic virtual space of the car instead of you basically sitting on top of your tyres. The thing is that whilst yes virtually the car has dimensions and so there is a natural delay for each relative transducer already build into it due the physics engine already doing that work for you... BUT!!! Your rig is made off of certain materials and different densities of material have different transfer rates of the vibration through the material, vibrations take time to travel after all. Since your rig however isn't the size of the virtual car you are driving and has those transducers placed in exactly the same distances as the wheelbase of that car, but much closer to your seat instead, you end up with less material that the vibration has to transfer through. In other words the vibrations almost instantly go to your but. For that you need that delay to virtually match up the speaker to the relative position of that virtual car's wheelbase that you are driving.
I bought a 4 channel inuke after reading a post by mrlatte some time ago along with the same 4 transducers in this kit and now just ordered the mounting kit. I’d be interested if any of you wrote up a guide on how to do what you’re talking about.
@@chrisc3825 Can't do anything with that iNuke amp in this regard, using a delay to properly size the car, as it doesn't have a DSP (Digital Sound Processor). Even the other guys never comprehend the thing I was talking about, hence they said "go for the 4 channel amp without DSP as it'll save you quite a few bucks". 🤦♂ Let's take just the rear right tyre on an BMW E46 as an example with transducers on a Sim-Lab P1 rig as an example which has 4 transducers at all extreme corners. The Sim-Lab P`1 is 1.350 meters long and has a with of 0.680 meters. So just over half a meter wide. The seating position on the rig is at the furthest rear posiion on the rig and 0.500 meters further to the front is the crossmember for the front mounts of a seat slider. The E46 has a wheel base of 2.725 meters with a width of 1.740 meters. The seating position is with your feet almost directly behind the front left tyre. Which means that you are roughly 1 meter apart from the right hand side tyres (1.740 - 0.680 = 1.060 meters). Where your rig is also sitting virtually closer to the front tyres, so that means if you were to match up the front of your Sim-Lab P1 with the left front tyre you'd be shy 1.375 meters from the back of the P1 rig to the left rear on the E46 (2.725 - 1.350 = 1.375 meters). Now since your transducers are mounted on each extreme end of the P1 rig they are vibrating much closer to your butt than a real E46 it's tyres would as it picks up road noise. So you need to virtually spread out the transducers by telling the amplifier's DSP that your speakers are an X amount of meters away from you. Which will add a delay so that it seems as if the transducers is further away by mimicing the extra time it would take for the vibration to travel through the material and finally to your butt. Now to know the distance between your butt and the rear left tyre you can just apply Pythagoras his A² = B² + C². So A² = diagonal line from butt to the E46 rear right. B² = remaining distance to the rear axle at 1.060 meters. C² = width from seat to the right side tyres at 1.375 meters. So we need to calculate: A² = 1.060² + 1.375² = 3,014225. So for the rear right transducer we need to dial in a delay of roughly 3 meters. The rear left transducer can be set to 1 meter The front right transducer to 1.3 meters The front left transducer can remain at 0 meters. That is how you setup the delay of a DSP for a BMW E46 3-series car whilst using a Sim-Lab P1 rig with 4 transducers mounted at its 4 corners.
@@LogiForce86 a bit of work, but not exactly complicated. I actually got an Behringer NX4-6000. I think this replaced some of the older iNukes but can still use the same software, but I don’t remember what the benefit of that was tbh but there was a discussion about that software being used to dial in the transducers. What you’re saying just sounds like speaker placement on a regular receiver. I don’t much about sound processing, but I’d assume a sound engineer would enter in the placement of microphones relative to each other when recording, then you as the listener can enter in the speaker placement relative to you, and the DSP (?) would calculate the differences and play the sound accordingly, or in the case where the amount of speakers doesn’t match up the with the amount of microphones, it does some smart processing to figure out what everything should sound like. With that said, 1) I don’t know why what I was reading guided me to get this amp and use the iNuke software (for something) as opposed to a regular receiver that would have some onboard DSP, and 2) that sims would relay the information used for tactile feedback in a way that already considers the wheel and driver placement and then you can just enter in speaker placement essentially for your transducers and not have to make manual calculations or adjustments, but that might be hopeful thinking.
I did buy the springset as I already had transducers on my rig. So I can't tell anything about the transducer-set. I have to say I'm not sad I bought them. The difference between the transducers bolted vertically on the the rig itself and now horizontally on the springset is there., be it a small. I can feel the difference a little more between right and left. Next to that, the noise it makes to the room beneath me has reduced a bit. Don't get me wrong, it won't take the noise away, but it helpes. So if it's worth the amount to pay for it? For me it was, but don't think it can compare with a motion set-up. If you have no budget for a motion set-up (like me), I can really recommend the complete set.
So black cable would not stand out against natural colour alloy extrusion ? Can you not put a wrap over the cable to match your particular colour taste.
What a nice idea! I thought to buy transducers to my Rseat RS1 rig recently, and now I know how to improve it, I will DIY something like that. And the price is reasonable, I would definitely like to buy that if I lived in US.
@@chrisc3825 you probably need to mount them directly onto your rig somehow. I doubt your current setup (if I understood it correctly your rig is standing on an MDF panels?) will transit enough vibrations since the RS1 standing on a tiny bolts with feet on it which will not let pass that vibrations through it. The more contact area you have the better feel you'll get. I have a direct drive wheel now and it shakes the whole rig pretty impressive, so I expect proper shakers/transducers should do the same.
@@mattspeed yeah ideally they would need to be mounted directly to the rig but I have the same Dayton’s in this package and they’re too big to mount anywhere on the rig, plus I want to go 8020 regardless and don’t want to start making modifications to this one. Right now I have the rig sitting directly on the MDF boards and the feet going into holes I drilled just to keep the rig from sliding around. It’s a bit of a mess. I can tell front from rear because it’s two different boards, front and rear, that the shakers are mounted to, but left to right is difficult to tell. I honestly don’t even use it right now because I know I’m not getting what I want or can out of it. Hopefully this new setup will change that. GL if you stick with the RS1. Most people use the smaller Dayton pucks mounted directly to the pedal plate, seat, and gear shifter sometimes.
@@slip-angle2400 The spring mounting system looks different on the kit without transducers. Is it a better version? I also already have 4 transducers and I'm interested in the kit. Do you have a dealer in Europe?
I have same prolem withrear shakers. Seems like they don´t vibrate :( And also Channel 5 and 6 doesn´t work for me ) Seems like front shakers vibrate on channel 1 / 2 / 3 and then slowly on channel 5 and 6. can´t work it out :(
Damn the COVID’s, this is the same concept as a floor mount isolators. Depending on weight application is the size you would buy. Great video. I use 6 Buttkickers with the SimVibe software.
I like the idea with the mounting brackets and the springs! But I have doubts a 50W 50$ Dayton shaker would perform close to even the smallest buttkickers. 4 Buttkicker LFE with the spring mounts would be nice! Allthough that would be a slightly different pricepoint.
I have a Dayton under my pedal deck with noobsound, and a buttkicker plus under the seat. They perform next to identical but actually I prefer the vibration from the Dayton setup and it was less expensive as well. Great job of letting me know of any brake lock up.
The buttkickers are more powerful, but it's not just the power of the transducer, it's the freedom of the rig to move. With the springs the Daytons are plenty powerful and provide a lot of variation. Cheers.
@@slip-angle2400 do you ship to the Netherlands and at what rate? I'm looking at sizable customs import taxing, so it's important for me to know what I'll be paying in the end. Hopefully you can give me some indications. Tia.
@@frankvanderheide Hi, yes, just go to the website, add the item to cart, add email and select your country and it'll show the costs. Email me if you have any other questions. Cheers.
@@MrJr1976 Thanks for the suggestion, we'll look into it, but remember the clamp doesn't just have to hold the transducer, but the entire weight of the rig/person/stuff.
@@slip-angle2400 That's why the thicker non-adjustable part of the C-clamp should be on the bottom and attached to the modified plate the transducer sits on. That way, the shear strength will be enough to prevent failure. Or even have an adapter that screws onto the side plate.
@@MrJr1976 I'm not really following you, partly because I'm not sure of the rig you're thinking of, but I like the idea. Can you email me with a bit more detail?
Hi. I use a t300 on a rig. Is it better to upgrade with a tactile system? Or should i spent my money to buy a better wheel (example moza r12 / r16 or simagic alpha / alpha mini
I'm already running a home made 4 corner haptic system on my old NLR f gt. The springs are a really great idea and some thing I had considered myself but hadn't been able to visualise how to suspend the rig.
Hi! I watched one of your video featuring the NLR ES1 seat some time ago and I wanted to ask if it hold up good over time since I'm a bigger guy myself. I see you don't use it anymore, anything wrong with it?? thanks
Hi. Thanks for this interesting review. Do these four DaytonAudio BassShakers installed in this way really give a better experience than screwed directly to the simrig frame at four points? I understand that they perfectly eliminate vibrations towards the floor, but don't the springs reduce the transfer of their power to the rig a bit? Have you tested these BassShakers without springs as well? I wonder if there wouldn't be a better effect if springs or rubber or some other type of damping from the rig to the floor were actually used, but the BassShakers should be screwed with their entire surface to the rig's frame and not through a metal angle bar. I am interested in your opinion or experience.
The theory is that yes, they do give a better output. Think about if you had to shake the rig with your hands. It would be easier to shake if it sat on springs. So in this case, the transducers have to do less work.
Hopefully you can get springs with a higher load rating for the front. With a rig that has integrated triple or quad screens and an attached PC shelf that is a lot of extra weight on the front springs. Possibly just a kit with 4 rear springs.
Can someone please explain if due to the springs and the bassshaker mounted above / ontop does it bring moving / feeling to that spring? Or is the whole thing that the whole rig moves a little bit because of your body movement and the springs are more to hold all the vibration in the rig? Thx in advance 🫶
It's vibration at a certain frequency, which you can feel when you are sitting in your rig. The rig does not move, just vibrates when required. For instance, when your front left tyre runs over a kerb, you will feel vibration in your rig from the front bass shaker going off. It's a great feedback sensation, but it won't move the rig like a proper motion system. Setup right in SimHub, and the system is great.
I am wondering your thoughts if it would matter if I installed the 4 transducers in the front and back of the rig instead of the sides. I am tight on space and would be able to install the transducers on front and back left and right sides but not on the actual sides of the rig. do you think I would still get appropriate feedback?
Can these be used with motion if you mount them to each corner of your rig still using the springs to dampen vibration. Spring side mounted to the top side or side of the rig, not touching the floor?
Awesome, Mike. Like you, I love my ButtKicker. In fact, it waned my wish for movement. Slip Angle might be the silver bullet for movement on a budget. Thanks for the review.
Great innovation, And looks like with some further development it will only get better. Would definitely purchase if I didn't have a motion rig. I paid almost as much just for a single buttkicker and amp.
To be fair, I saw a comparison between buttkickers, Dayton and some others. Buttkickers design allows for more dynamic range and more identifiable individual frequencies. In other words when assigning effects to the transducer, you'd get better feedback, definition and clarity, if you have multiple effects assigned to a single transducer. So you've got very good equipment, I'm going with the simracing 4 BK package I saw on their website, or if I can't get the package, I'll have to source them individually.
@@torbinzix1 In all honesty, I don't bother with my buttkicker at all. I found having the feedback coming in from one spot to be immersion breaking, and with more then a couple signals being processed it just becomes noise to filter out rather then to respond to. I had limited it to the gear change and the rev limiter but my motion rig does that job now.
What the maximum height I can set these springs? The screws on my simlab p1x is set to the max (+-15cm?). So getting into my bucket seat is easier. Without these feet's getting in and out would be quite hard for me. (Back issues)
Is there going to be a AMS 2 update 1.4 review? They added new aero packages for the 90s F1 cars and V10 F1 cars, a Low down force wing and high down force package. They also added oval aero for all the indycars and added 3 new oval tracks with road courses too, and they also added manual grid option for custom championships, new FFB and physics and AI. A new Gt3 car, and new mini Cooper and couple other cars I think. Etc. It's a big update, you should review it.
Nice review. How are you liking the Fanatec universal hub with the Flat steering wheel? I have the McClaren GT3 V2 but thinking of maybe getting the Flat too for a secondary.
I wish something like this existed as a replacement for office chair castors, Most bell glides are too short to replace the stock castors on rolling chairs.
Hi again, I was wondering if your rig is the 1530 aluminum extrusion type (1.5 in x 3 in tall) just making sure I have the compatible rig extrusions because I have a 2040 rig and I dont know if its large enough based on your video...thanks
Hi! I have the Next Level Racing F GT Elite. I don’t know the dimensions of the extrusion in inches, but you can search for that cockpit to double check the spec of the rig. Or email Slip Angle; I’m sure they’d have a definitive answer
@@SimRacing604 Thanks so much....after checking again it looks like i have 4080 style rig (kinda like your in terms of size - it's the 6-sigma rig) ...these things confuse me in terms of their naming how they refer to them all as "8020" anyway I decided to get one! About to order this week .
the fact that you feel less is not because of the spring , the spring are there to isolate the vibration, you feel less because you seat is absorbing while you feet are directly in contact with
So I decided to order this yesterday and was order number 2. Come today they are "sold out" and my money was refunded. I have no idea what the deal is but I'm super confused.
Is that way of mounting better than attached to the back and under a fibre baquet? If anyone has tried bouth and wants to share the experience i'd be gratefull. Mounting them on springs seems interesting.
Have you ever watched a car without dampeners and just springs and people sitting in it? Yeah... it's the same. If I have to say though the best option would be if a strong haptic transducer could be placed in the middle of the spring, because what you are simulation in such a chassis simulation is the movement of the springs. So in order to replicated it you'd need to have the sim rig on springs and a transducer move those springs by vibrating in the longitudinal direction of the spring, so that in essence your rig will start to shake with the spring. The current solution of Slip Angle is the second best option to attach the transducer on top of the spring. The feel just won't be dampened and feel harsher than it normally would be, and the vibration travels faster as it's directly into the rig. Although you could use a delay to counter that at least.
why won't it be designed to put under seat rather under rig. I started simracing with ikea POANG armchair what would rock/vibrate a bit when force feedback from steering wheel would go down my arms and body. Since I have simrig I am dreaming about DIY'ing springs between seat and rig for similar effects. and here you go the upgraded version of my idea with haptics. Thanks for sharing.
What's the weight limit on those springs and brackets? I have a P1X with three integrated monitors mounted, with a direct drive wheelbase and a heavy pedal plate. I'm 6'2 and 200 pounds. Can those tiny springs handle all this weight?
I'd like to know this as well. I'm around 180 pounds with a rig that doubles as a flight sim cockpit with TM Warthog and DD1 and pedals plus monitor. Lots of weight. The product looks good but once those springs are compressed, the feels are going to be lessened. Mike's rear springs were quite low compared to the fronts. The rears seem to need to be either stiffer or longer. Edit: Actually, thinking about it, there's no reason why the supplier wouldn't sell 2 additional spring kits for the centre of the rig! Definitely worth asking.
Second on wanting to know this: I have a DIY 80/20 rig that’s closest to a TrakRacer Tr160 (mine would be more like a 120), 5’9” and 185lb, Using VRS DD so 25lb mige motor + DD mount and pedal deck are solid steel. No monitors on mine, those are on separate stand
I’m looking to pick one of these up, my concern is my quad monitor is attached to my aluminum profile rig. I don’t know if the weight would impact the feeling on the springs, what do you think? Was there any weight limits in the product information or do you think I can reach out to the company directly?
Is there any movement whatsoever? Is there any real difference compared to using 4 transducers without the isolators other than isolating the vibrations from the floor?
The price compared to full motion is WAY less than I thought it would be. I thought, given the cost of full motion in mind, this would be 12-1500 USD at least. Few people with full motion use the full range as, unless you're driving offroad cars, it's not neccessary...this doesn't provide a lot of travel but for the vast majority of racers, it's just not needed...Great stuff!
Man that's kinda cool. My rig is way to heavy to be putting on springs tho. I am and have been interested in the rest of the kit tho. Having the feedback from those would be great even without the springs.
Atom, the springs are an integral part of it, without the springs your rig isn't free to move. You might feel some of the higher frequencies, but you miss out on the lower ones, and you need that variation to get the effect.
@@SlipAngleRacing my rig ways 800 to 900 pounds. I get it. As in why they are there. But... Being so beefy. I feel the vibration from my wheel in my pedals. Why I said just having the feedback without movement for me. Would be great. The only motion I would bother with or want is a D box system. But the rest of this kit is way better then one butt kicker.
Mike i have tried so much to get wheel slip working in ams2 i just cant get it to works consistently is i bugged or can you get good on track slip feel in your transducers with simhub?
@@SimRacing604 i have 2 one front one back but with ams2 and simhub wheel slip is wonky...it rumbles even in a straight line...ive been looking online lots of people says its bugged but they are old threads have you got good wheel slip feel,i can only get good fumble on kerbs and bumps ,,,wow on qk reply btw
I wish you had the Logitech DD for a proper test given True force. Don't worry about the rear because in real life in a mid or front engine the rear suspension is more stable or less active compared to the front otherwise you won't finish a lap let alone a race. Support all the way from Trinidad and Tobago. GGs
The springs are called “floor mount spring isolators” they are used to keep vibrations from equipment from transferring through the floor and are made in all shapes and sizes.
Yup they are the kind made for industrial grade applications to isolate heavy duty vibrations and keep decibels within certain safety limits and stop vibrations to or from other equipment. They can allow it vibrate more freely as well so they can enhance the effect of bass transducers.
Oh wicked. Just found some. Thanks for the description and name. Wasn't sure what to search for.
What about the “shelves” - anyone find what can be used to replicate this?
Edit: never mind. These are custom brackets, I couldn’t find similar, and they’re now selling just the brackets, springs and hardware.
The springs are a genius idea. I have the same exact transducers and they’re great. If they sold a package with just the springs, legs, and mounts I’d be interested.
Hey Mike! Reach out to them. The owner is awesome to deal with; I’m sure he’d hook you up
Came here to say the same, if they sell a package of the springs with the ability to choose different mounting options (I would like to attach to a Next Level F-GT if possible) then I will be getting it ASAP!
Yeah, same here. I already have four transducers like in thr vid and USB amps. Just need trh mounts and springs. This is an amazing idea. Definitely going to princess auto later today to look for heavy duty springs. Maybe a light duty coil over or something. Great video as always man!!!
Me 3, in for a smaller kit.
I have to apologize firstly as i couldn't bring myself to watch the video through the full way yet because its ridiculous, they you have moving parts through a ridged setup the movement from one part will be moved through the non moving part to the next moving part, this is a absolutely terrible idea! ok i will now go and watch the rest of this video
I tried the kit and loved it. It makes the whole rig feels alive. Next to a full motion rig (add a couple zeros to the price of this), it is the best system I have seen so far. Everyone can buy a couple transducers and an amp but the value proposition of this kit is the engineering that went into the legs, mounts and springs. The price is incredible compared to what I would pay to have custom made legs & mounts and sourcing the right grade of industrial springs. The guy that put this thing together must have spent an enormous amount of time tweaking it to make the rig feel alive like this. Much better than a buttkickers; keeps vibration down, wife happy and children sleeping.
Agreed on the value proposition, just breaking down the costing of individual shakers, amps and 4 channel usb sound card already exceeds the cost of this whole kit using common sourcing like Amazon. Definitely could DIY this if you could come up with suitable mounts (which they've done) but definitely not cheaper. Currently I just have a couple of smaller pucks mounted to my seat and that's pretty amazing as it is, I can appreciate how much more this would add. Definitely will be considering this when my new profile rig arrives.
so in short, if you live in an apartment building it wont disturbe the nighbours, they wont hear or feel it?
Could you elaborate on exactly what this kit does? In regards to the springs. Is it just to isolate the vibrations so it doesn't disperse to the floor?
To those wondering regarding my previous comment - The springs will isolate noise and vibrations throughout the environment. As you're isolating the vibrations to just the rig, this can increase the feel of the transducers. That being said, is it a necessity? Absolutely not. Is it nice to have? Absolutely is. Will there be a drastic difference if you were to isolate or not in regards to experience? Not at all but of course depending on the strength of the transducers used. Who will benefit from this? Those living in an environment in which the day-to-day use of your rig annoys/affects the others around you.
Mike, thanks for doing the review, I appreciate it.
I'll post answers here to some of the questions below for convenience.
1. Spring+Mounts only kit? I wasn't expecting this, but it makes sense. I'm working on it and will post it as an option in the store as soon as it's sorted.
2. Supported rig weight? The springs used here support 220lbs/100kg front and 330lb/150kg rear, so 550lb/250kg total. We're testing some stronger rear springs, but I've met Mike and he's a big guy, so if they hold him they will hold most.
3. Why not isolate each transducer from the rig with dampers? Cars have rigid chassis, so the vibrations permeate the entire chassis while also giving feedback on their origin. This system accurately replicates that. A few limited types of feedback, like abs pedal pulsing, can be very localized but that's quite distinct from the broad range of engine, road, transmission, and curb vibrations that travel through the entire car and bring a rig to life.
4. Will it work with non-8020 rigs? Only if you're MacGyver (even then, no). There are too many variations in non-8020 style rigs to create a bracket for all of them. The brackets support the weight of the rig and transmit the vibrations, so a solid mounting is a must.
5. Total kit weight? 36lbs/16kg
6. What if I don't like the posted tunings? You can send us yours and we'll post it on the site. Everyone likes different settings so it's good to have a place to share them.
If there are any more questions I'll reply here or in a faq on the site, or just email me. Cheers.
btw I too would love to see a back to back comparison of this kit and the Buttkicker Mike reviewed a few weeks ago.
Your website says nothing about which countries you ship to, it would be nice to know
@@Helld00d Good point, I'll fix that. For now just Canada and US but we're working on others. Thanks.
UK delivery and I'm all in 👍👍👍
i have the tr160 with triples mounted on to the rig .is it good idea to take the kit or do we need stiffer springs ?
@@wow35master That rig weight around 55kg, the springs will hold 250kg, so you have a lot of headroom for weight.
Great review. I’ve wanted to add motion to my aluminum rig but didn’t want to spend that much. This looks like a great compromise. Glad you’re feeling better.
Interesting! this all the exact same gear I had individually sourced for my rig during the pandemic to create my own “buttkicker” system. It works great btw. Super immersive for flight and driving. I wasn’t trying to make a motion system though, just to be a better neighbor and damp the vibrations for apartment life.
Fantastic!!! I already have the exact same 4 transducers and even the same cheap usb-sound adapter. They are very smart to also sell the mounts and springs for those who already have most of the pieces . I would have not even considered it . Since, I already had the transducers. But just offering the springs and mounts for $210 + $32 Shipping!! That's a good deal. Even just sourcing the springs and mounts would have cost me nearly the same maybe even more? Not to mention the hours and days of researching trying to find the correct springs. Good job Slip-Angle !!
Thanks!
This looks like a pseudo motion system for the rig. It would be great if you make another video going in depth on how it feels and how is this different from just using transducers without springs, it would really help because this looks like something that can somewhat substitute a motion rig for those who cant run one because of budget or space constraints. Either way good review. Looking forward to a follow up after more testing.
Thanks so much. It’s not a replacement for my motion, but for $500 it seems like a great way to dip your toes into feeling sim racing through more than your wheel.
I was going to ask the same questions. I'm going to do a full motion rig in the future and I'm trying to determine the best set up for my space and budget. I'd like to do a combo set up for racing and flight. Was intrigued by the Yaw VR system. Glad you're feeling better Mike! I've had Covid twice in the past 3 years. No fun either time. God bless and race on 👍😎🏁
Were you able to test it with the shakers disabled? So just the springs passively doing their thing. The majority of the deflection/displacement of the springs seems to be coming from your body mecanics of driving like fighting a DD wheel or working the pedals and leaning around in the seat. I wonder if you still get the motion effect with the shakers disabled.
There is no motion with the springs only, and it's not the purpose of them. They are only ment for isolating the vibrations not going in the floor
Can you distinguish left/right vibrations on this setup?
When shakers mounted to the sides of the rig people say left/right is indistinguishable since vibrations travel through the rig, but mounting shakers directly onto springs is interesting.
Note that you need a blind test for this since vision and audio from the car tricks our mind.
This is resolved in tuning. I have a four corners shaker setup on an aluminum rig. I 3d printed shaker mounts ( a lot of trial and error) so they can induce more force. Tweaking frequency snd power can have dramatic effect on source recognition. TLDR: frequencies too low become muddled within the chassis.
Would love to see how you feel this compares to the SRS shakekit seat pad, I believe the new version has 6 transducers, and seems to be a lot easier to install. I have the old version with 4 transducers, and I love it, but I've never tried anything else
Hi. why not use some washing mashine pads jnstead of the springs? Thank you
Fascinating product - definitely seems like a neat niche below seat movers but above a single buttkicker. I'm a huge fan of haptics for Sim Rigs - once my Buttkicker stopped working I couldn't go back to nothing (I replaced with a cheap chinese Amp and small Dayton transducers) Great review as always Mike and hope you're feeling back to full health soon :)
How would you describe the difference between the buttkickers and the Daytons
equivalent, I'd say - as long as you get similar power outputs to the BK's@@dvc1867 - and you can more easily achieve stereo/quad effects with smaller transducers than the bulkier BK 'arms'. It's just about taking a breath and being a little brave with DIY, but worth it. the software (SimHub or SimXPeriences Sim Commander for example) adds cost though, but is essential
Nice video, I’ve had spring isolator’s for a few years now, and they also do great job of keeping the vibration with in the rig. Acting like a shield between the rig and the floor.
Mind telling where/what model spring isolators you got?
Also curious!
I didnt think I needed springs, setup Simhub to have the RPM idle in game. Went down 1 floor to the kitchen and it felt like there was a lobed cam race car upstairs.
I like this idea. It gives you the senses your looking for and it is not noisy.
Hi Mike, Curious if you tried the Slip Angle system with your Next Level V3 Motion seat mover platform?
Nice idea with the springs. What I really want to know is how well the springs prevent the vibration from traveling through the floor as this is my biggest issue with running transducers. My rig is on the 2nd floor and the vibration travels through the floor even with rubber isolators.
Great to hear that you've recovered! Love your videos, keep 'em coming :)
Thank you so much!
Great find and thanks for bringing this to our attention and reviewing Mike!!
I was just logging on to order a buttkicker setup for my gt-omega prime when I saw this video. Looks like it may be just what I need. Really helpful seeing that it works for you since I'm about your size.
The gear itself is way above my pay-grade, Mike. But sorry to hear you had such a hard time with Covid. But good to see your at least somewhat on the mend now.......
As we need more SimRacing604 in our Sim Racing lives.
Man Mike
So glad to hear and see you doing better.
Thanks for this great review and SlipAngle's approach seems like an affordable and effective alternative for quality haptic feedback.
It would be interesting to see the Transducers remain in each corner, but move the front springs rearward so your weight is evenly distributed over the springs
Bro get well soon bud the beginning of July I caught covid and I'm still having some issues, but we're getting there. This looks like a great option for ppl that don't want to go full motion!
I absolutely love the springs, and may even go back to tranducers after seeing these. Setup headache aside, the one issue that I had with the buttkickers was the vibration through the floor. You know how bad recording can be with all that vibration, so you could imagine how much my wife loved hearing the dresser rattle all night 🤣🤣
The price is a little high to just jump on, but certainly fair and worth saving for, thanks for the great review!
Good to see you doing better and his seems like a nice between just rumble and a full moition set up!
Thanks for this information and review on this kind of motion system. Going out to their website it looks like they have a more expensive system for 650 dollars which also has more power to provide for the motion effects.
I don't have any kind of Racing Rig right now, but just learning what and how things work with a Rig.
Take care.
Couldn't see clearly in the vides where exactly you mounted the front transducers/springs. There a way you can send a link to a side view photo to see where they are exactly at the front? I have the same NLR GT Elite rig and don't have much space, so might have to move back the vertical wheelbase bar and the pedal support forward.
I had to move back my vertical bars so there's 5.5" space in the front for them to fit. For the rear, don't you have issues/concerns when getting out of the seat risking scratching your left leg at the sharp edges of the transducer/bracket?
I am impressed at the price. I may have to take Slip-Angle up on this system. When I got a wheel stand and was able to feel the steering wheel shake on the pedal deck (with a Fanatec CSR), that added a lot more immersion to the Sims I was playing. When I upgrade to an aluminum profile rig, I'll get this kit. First, being on springs would help on an uneven floor, and second, the idea makes sense.
Curious about when he said he used the default profile in simhub? Then found the slip angle profile? Where do you find profile in simhub and how do you use them. I have a small transducer on my throttle and brake.wondering about a profile already in simhub?
Sounds like the company read into some stuff me and a few mates were getting into a decade ago already, some might remember me and MrLatte, HoiHman, Carson79 and ilonioum from over at GTplanet way back discussing matters with Berney Villers from SimXperience Simvibe.
At the time we were still trying to pioneer dampers, delay to change the seating position relative to the 4 tyres of your virtual car. Which really added an extra dimension in feeling the size of a car, which aided in judging distances to a curb or how far you are onto a curb or the gras. This delay use is something I could never seem to get across in writing to people around the globe though. Basically you use a DSP (I had a Behringer iNuke amp with built-in DSP) and use the function that you in essence also have on a 5.1 to 7.2 AV Receiver, the function to set the distance of your speakers relative to your seating position in the room.
It's the same thing with tactile speakers. You just have to get the wheel base measurements of the car you are driving and measure out the relative position of your seat in relation to the tyre positions. Than set the delay/distance according for each transducer that respresents that one tyre, and done! Now your rig has been virtually positioned inside the haptic virtual space of the car instead of you basically sitting on top of your tyres.
The thing is that whilst yes virtually the car has dimensions and so there is a natural delay for each relative transducer already build into it due the physics engine already doing that work for you... BUT!!! Your rig is made off of certain materials and different densities of material have different transfer rates of the vibration through the material, vibrations take time to travel after all.
Since your rig however isn't the size of the virtual car you are driving and has those transducers placed in exactly the same distances as the wheelbase of that car, but much closer to your seat instead, you end up with less material that the vibration has to transfer through. In other words the vibrations almost instantly go to your but. For that you need that delay to virtually match up the speaker to the relative position of that virtual car's wheelbase that you are driving.
I bought a 4 channel inuke after reading a post by mrlatte some time ago along with the same 4 transducers in this kit and now just ordered the mounting kit. I’d be interested if any of you wrote up a guide on how to do what you’re talking about.
@@chrisc3825 Can't do anything with that iNuke amp in this regard, using a delay to properly size the car, as it doesn't have a DSP (Digital Sound Processor). Even the other guys never comprehend the thing I was talking about, hence they said "go for the 4 channel amp without DSP as it'll save you quite a few bucks". 🤦♂
Let's take just the rear right tyre on an BMW E46 as an example with transducers on a Sim-Lab P1 rig as an example which has 4 transducers at all extreme corners.
The Sim-Lab P`1 is 1.350 meters long and has a with of 0.680 meters. So just over half a meter wide. The seating position on the rig is at the furthest rear posiion on the rig and 0.500 meters further to the front is the crossmember for the front mounts of a seat slider.
The E46 has a wheel base of 2.725 meters with a width of 1.740 meters. The seating position is with your feet almost directly behind the front left tyre. Which means that you are roughly 1 meter apart from the right hand side tyres (1.740 - 0.680 = 1.060 meters). Where your rig is also sitting virtually closer to the front tyres, so that means if you were to match up the front of your Sim-Lab P1 with the left front tyre you'd be shy 1.375 meters from the back of the P1 rig to the left rear on the E46 (2.725 - 1.350 = 1.375 meters).
Now since your transducers are mounted on each extreme end of the P1 rig they are vibrating much closer to your butt than a real E46 it's tyres would as it picks up road noise. So you need to virtually spread out the transducers by telling the amplifier's DSP that your speakers are an X amount of meters away from you. Which will add a delay so that it seems as if the transducers is further away by mimicing the extra time it would take for the vibration to travel through the material and finally to your butt.
Now to know the distance between your butt and the rear left tyre you can just apply Pythagoras his A² = B² + C². So A² = diagonal line from butt to the E46 rear right. B² = remaining distance to the rear axle at 1.060 meters. C² = width from seat to the right side tyres at 1.375 meters.
So we need to calculate: A² = 1.060² + 1.375² = 3,014225.
So for the rear right transducer we need to dial in a delay of roughly 3 meters.
The rear left transducer can be set to 1 meter
The front right transducer to 1.3 meters
The front left transducer can remain at 0 meters.
That is how you setup the delay of a DSP for a BMW E46 3-series car whilst using a Sim-Lab P1 rig with 4 transducers mounted at its 4 corners.
@@LogiForce86 a bit of work, but not exactly complicated. I actually got an Behringer NX4-6000. I think this replaced some of the older iNukes but can still use the same software, but I don’t remember what the benefit of that was tbh but there was a discussion about that software being used to dial in the transducers.
What you’re saying just sounds like speaker placement on a regular receiver. I don’t much about sound processing, but I’d assume a sound engineer would enter in the placement of microphones relative to each other when recording, then you as the listener can enter in the speaker placement relative to you, and the DSP (?) would calculate the differences and play the sound accordingly, or in the case where the amount of speakers doesn’t match up the with the amount of microphones, it does some smart processing to figure out what everything should sound like.
With that said, 1) I don’t know why what I was reading guided me to get this amp and use the iNuke software (for something) as opposed to a regular receiver that would have some onboard DSP, and 2) that sims would relay the information used for tactile feedback in a way that already considers the wheel and driver placement and then you can just enter in speaker placement essentially for your transducers and not have to make manual calculations or adjustments, but that might be hopeful thinking.
I did buy the springset as I already had transducers on my rig. So I can't tell anything about the transducer-set. I have to say I'm not sad I bought them. The difference between the transducers bolted vertically on the the rig itself and now horizontally on the springset is there., be it a small. I can feel the difference a little more between right and left. Next to that, the noise it makes to the room beneath me has reduced a bit. Don't get me wrong, it won't take the noise away, but it helpes. So if it's worth the amount to pay for it? For me it was, but don't think it can compare with a motion set-up. If you have no budget for a motion set-up (like me), I can really recommend the complete set.
So black cable would not stand out against natural colour alloy extrusion ?
Can you not put a wrap over the cable to match your particular colour taste.
What a nice idea! I thought to buy transducers to my Rseat RS1 rig recently, and now I know how to improve it, I will DIY something like that. And the price is reasonable, I would definitely like to buy that if I lived in US.
I have 4 transducers mounted to two pieces of MDF under my RS1 and it’s eh. Looking to sell mine and go 8020.
@@chrisc3825 you probably need to mount them directly onto your rig somehow. I doubt your current setup (if I understood it correctly your rig is standing on an MDF panels?) will transit enough vibrations since the RS1 standing on a tiny bolts with feet on it which will not let pass that vibrations through it. The more contact area you have the better feel you'll get. I have a direct drive wheel now and it shakes the whole rig pretty impressive, so I expect proper shakers/transducers should do the same.
@@mattspeed yeah ideally they would need to be mounted directly to the rig but I have the same Dayton’s in this package and they’re too big to mount anywhere on the rig, plus I want to go 8020 regardless and don’t want to start making modifications to this one.
Right now I have the rig sitting directly on the MDF boards and the feet going into holes I drilled just to keep the rig from sliding around. It’s a bit of a mess. I can tell front from rear because it’s two different boards, front and rear, that the shakers are mounted to, but left to right is difficult to tell. I honestly don’t even use it right now because I know I’m not getting what I want or can out of it. Hopefully this new setup will change that. GL if you stick with the RS1. Most people use the smaller Dayton pucks mounted directly to the pedal plate, seat, and gear shifter sometimes.
Looks interesting. Wish I could get just the springs as I already have 4 transducers
We'll have that as an option on the website soon, although it will take longer to deliver.
@@slip-angle2400 The spring mounting system looks different on the kit without transducers. Is it a better version? I also already have 4 transducers and I'm interested in the kit. Do you have a dealer in Europe?
I have same prolem withrear shakers. Seems like they don´t vibrate :( And also Channel 5 and 6 doesn´t work for me ) Seems like front shakers vibrate on channel 1 / 2 / 3 and then slowly on channel 5 and 6. can´t work it out :(
I run 5 smaller transducers on my rig. Maybe I can find a way to add springs and spacers between my rollers and see if it improves the feedback.
Damn the COVID’s, this is the same concept as a floor mount isolators. Depending on weight application is the size you would buy. Great video. I use 6 Buttkickers with the SimVibe software.
I like the idea with the mounting brackets and the springs! But I have doubts a 50W 50$ Dayton shaker would perform close to even the smallest buttkickers. 4 Buttkicker LFE with the spring mounts would be nice! Allthough that would be a slightly different pricepoint.
I have a Dayton under my pedal deck with noobsound, and a buttkicker plus under the seat. They perform next to identical but actually I prefer the vibration from the Dayton setup and it was less expensive as well. Great job of letting me know of any brake lock up.
The buttkickers are more powerful, but it's not just the power of the transducer, it's the freedom of the rig to move. With the springs the Daytons are plenty powerful and provide a lot of variation. Cheers.
@@slip-angle2400 do you ship to the Netherlands and at what rate? I'm looking at sizable customs import taxing, so it's important for me to know what I'll be paying in the end. Hopefully you can give me some indications. Tia.
@@frankvanderheide Hi, yes, just go to the website, add the item to cart, add email and select your country and it'll show the costs. Email me if you have any other questions. Cheers.
Does this work for non-80/20 rigs as well? If this is a good replacement for the NLR platform for 1/6 the price, then that's fantastic
MrJr, if it does it would be by accident, there are just too many variables with non-8020 style rigs to have brackets that accommodate them all.
@@slip-angle2400 Literally sell another bracket that includes buttkicker-style C-clamps
@@MrJr1976 Thanks for the suggestion, we'll look into it, but remember the clamp doesn't just have to hold the transducer, but the entire weight of the rig/person/stuff.
@@slip-angle2400 That's why the thicker non-adjustable part of the C-clamp should be on the bottom and attached to the modified plate the transducer sits on. That way, the shear strength will be enough to prevent failure. Or even have an adapter that screws onto the side plate.
@@MrJr1976 I'm not really following you, partly because I'm not sure of the rig you're thinking of, but I like the idea. Can you email me with a bit more detail?
What do you think if I get 4 adjustable air shocks using for bike!! with 4 100watt shakers ?
Hi. I use a t300 on a rig. Is it better to upgrade with a tactile system? Or should i spent my money to buy a better wheel (example moza r12 / r16 or simagic alpha / alpha mini
I'm already running a home made 4 corner haptic system on my old NLR f gt. The springs are a really great idea and some thing I had considered myself but hadn't been able to visualise how to suspend the rig.
why’s the monitor so high?
No mention of SimXperience Simvibe? Has anyone run both for comparison?
Wow u r the only RUclipsr covering this
Hi! I watched one of your video featuring the NLR ES1 seat some time ago and I wanted to ask if it hold up good over time since I'm a bigger guy myself. I see you don't use it anymore, anything wrong with it?? thanks
Hi. Thanks for this interesting review. Do these four DaytonAudio BassShakers installed in this way really give a better experience than screwed directly to the simrig frame at four points? I understand that they perfectly eliminate vibrations towards the floor, but don't the springs reduce the transfer of their power to the rig a bit? Have you tested these BassShakers without springs as well? I wonder if there wouldn't be a better effect if springs or rubber or some other type of damping from the rig to the floor were actually used, but the BassShakers should be screwed with their entire surface to the rig's frame and not through a metal angle bar. I am interested in your opinion or experience.
The theory is that yes, they do give a better output. Think about if you had to shake the rig with your hands. It would be easier to shake if it sat on springs. So in this case, the transducers have to do less work.
I am strongly considering ordering this but I would change the speaker wire to black in color. What gauge is the wire provided?
Lso does the company sell the springs and mounts alone?
Hopefully you can get springs with a higher load rating for the front. With a rig that has integrated triple or quad screens and an attached PC shelf that is a lot of extra weight on the front springs. Possibly just a kit with 4 rear springs.
My rig uses rubber innertubes from wheelbarrows and its almost silent downstairs despite using a dd wheel and transducers
Can someone please explain if due to the springs and the bassshaker mounted above / ontop does it bring moving / feeling to that spring? Or is the whole thing that the whole rig moves a little bit because of your body movement and the springs are more to hold all the vibration in the rig?
Thx in advance 🫶
It's vibration at a certain frequency, which you can feel when you are sitting in your rig. The rig does not move, just vibrates when required. For instance, when your front left tyre runs over a kerb, you will feel vibration in your rig from the front bass shaker going off.
It's a great feedback sensation, but it won't move the rig like a proper motion system.
Setup right in SimHub, and the system is great.
I can t get my head around how the transducers make the springs depress? Does the vibrations make this affect on them????
They don't, springs is only to isolate the vibrations from the floor.
I am wondering your thoughts if it would matter if I installed the 4 transducers in the front and back of the rig instead of the sides. I am tight on space and would be able to install the transducers on front and back left and right sides but not on the actual sides of the rig. do you think I would still get appropriate feedback?
would this help with recognizing understeer better?
Can these be used with motion if you mount them to each corner of your rig still using the springs to dampen vibration. Spring side mounted to the top side or side of the rig, not touching the floor?
Awesome, Mike. Like you, I love my ButtKicker. In fact, it waned my wish for movement. Slip Angle might be the silver bullet for movement on a budget. Thanks for the review.
Very nice! Is this kit available for tubular framed cockpits, like the GT Omega Titan?
No, I don’t believe it is, unfortunately
thank you for making this video it helped alot
On topic of haptic but completely different approach would you consider reviewing the Next Level HF8?
How is it with sound? Might be good if you live in a apparment becuse of the springs
Great innovation, And looks like with some further development it will only get better. Would definitely purchase if I didn't have a motion rig. I paid almost as much just for a single buttkicker and amp.
To be fair, I saw a comparison between buttkickers, Dayton and some others. Buttkickers design allows for more dynamic range and more identifiable individual frequencies.
In other words when assigning effects to the transducer, you'd get better feedback, definition and clarity, if you have multiple effects assigned to a single transducer.
So you've got very good equipment, I'm going with the simracing 4 BK package I saw on their website, or if I can't get the package, I'll have to source them individually.
@@torbinzix1 In all honesty, I don't bother with my buttkicker at all. I found having the feedback coming in from one spot to be immersion breaking, and with more then a couple signals being processed it just becomes noise to filter out rather then to respond to. I had limited it to the gear change and the rev limiter but my motion rig does that job now.
What the maximum height I can set these springs?
The screws on my simlab p1x is set to the max (+-15cm?). So getting into my bucket seat is easier. Without these feet's getting in and out would be quite hard for me. (Back issues)
They only add about 15mm to the height once compressed, we wanted to keep the rig low.
I already have 6 of those transducers, but since moving to proper profile rig there's less movement, need the springs!
Is there going to be a AMS 2 update 1.4 review? They added new aero packages for the 90s F1 cars and V10 F1 cars, a Low down force wing and high down force package.
They also added oval aero for all the indycars and added 3 new oval tracks with road courses too, and they also added manual grid option for custom championships, new FFB and physics and AI.
A new Gt3 car, and new mini Cooper and couple other cars I think. Etc.
It's a big update, you should review it.
Nice review. How are you liking the Fanatec universal hub with the Flat steering wheel? I have the McClaren GT3 V2 but thinking of maybe getting the Flat too for a secondary.
I wish something like this existed as a replacement for office chair castors, Most bell glides are too short to replace the stock castors on rolling chairs.
Hi again, I was wondering if your rig is the 1530 aluminum extrusion type (1.5 in x 3 in tall) just making sure I have the compatible rig extrusions because I have a 2040 rig and I dont know if its large enough based on your video...thanks
Hi! I have the Next Level Racing F GT Elite. I don’t know the dimensions of the extrusion in inches, but you can search for that cockpit to double check the spec of the rig. Or email Slip Angle; I’m sure they’d have a definitive answer
@@SimRacing604 Thanks so much....after checking again it looks like i have 4080 style rig (kinda like your in terms of size - it's the 6-sigma rig) ...these things confuse me in terms of their naming how they refer to them all as "8020" anyway I decided to get one! About to order this week .
@@snoopy_peanuts_77 awesome! Enjoy the new gear
the fact that you feel less is not because of the spring , the spring are there to isolate the vibration, you feel less because you seat is absorbing while you feet are directly in contact with
do you think this would work on a Ricmotech RS1 Wooden Rig?
Can I use this on "OpenWheeler Gen3, and PS5?
So I decided to order this yesterday and was order number 2. Come today they are "sold out" and my money was refunded. I have no idea what the deal is but I'm super confused.
Hi, how is this spring motion shaker after a few weeks of use ?
Is that way of mounting better than attached to the back and under a fibre baquet? If anyone has tried bouth and wants to share the experience i'd be gratefull. Mounting them on springs seems interesting.
Where do you buy this kit springs?
I had my rig hanging from springs. The frame took up too much space though. Same concept though
Random jiggling from rig perched on undamped springs was not bothersome?
Random how?
Have you ever watched a car without dampeners and just springs and people sitting in it? Yeah... it's the same.
If I have to say though the best option would be if a strong haptic transducer could be placed in the middle of the spring, because what you are simulation in such a chassis simulation is the movement of the springs. So in order to replicated it you'd need to have the sim rig on springs and a transducer move those springs by vibrating in the longitudinal direction of the spring, so that in essence your rig will start to shake with the spring.
The current solution of Slip Angle is the second best option to attach the transducer on top of the spring. The feel just won't be dampened and feel harsher than it normally would be, and the vibration travels faster as it's directly into the rig. Although you could use a delay to counter that at least.
why won't it be designed to put under seat rather under rig. I started simracing with ikea POANG armchair what would rock/vibrate a bit when force feedback from steering wheel would go down my arms and body. Since I have simrig I am dreaming about DIY'ing springs between seat and rig for similar effects. and here you go the upgraded version of my idea with haptics. Thanks for sharing.
What's the weight limit on those springs and brackets? I have a P1X with three integrated monitors mounted, with a direct drive wheelbase and a heavy pedal plate. I'm 6'2 and 200 pounds. Can those tiny springs handle all this weight?
I'd like to know this as well. I'm around 180 pounds with a rig that doubles as a flight sim cockpit with TM Warthog and DD1 and pedals plus monitor. Lots of weight. The product looks good but once those springs are compressed, the feels are going to be lessened. Mike's rear springs were quite low compared to the fronts. The rears seem to need to be either stiffer or longer.
Edit: Actually, thinking about it, there's no reason why the supplier wouldn't sell 2 additional spring kits for the centre of the rig! Definitely worth asking.
Second on wanting to know this: I have a DIY 80/20 rig that’s closest to a TrakRacer Tr160 (mine would be more like a 120), 5’9” and 185lb, Using VRS DD so 25lb mige motor + DD mount and pedal deck are solid steel. No monitors on mine, those are on separate stand
Im a fat ass guy and have emailed them about the spring rates for beefier rigs and drivers, ill post my reply when I get it
I feel like the weakest point won’t be springs but the t-slots hardware or where those mount directly to the brackets. That concerns me a little bit.
I’m looking to pick one of these up, my concern is my quad monitor is attached to my aluminum profile rig. I don’t know if the weight would impact the feeling on the springs, what do you think? Was there any weight limits in the product information or do you think I can reach out to the company directly?
My recommendation is to reach out to Slip Angle and ask the question. They can probably arrange for stronger springs, worst case.
@@SimRacing604 I appreciate the quick response. I’ll reach out to them today.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! What about availability in Europe?
I'm wondering how well this would work with large rumble motors. Might be more powerful but with less fidelity. Also less expensive I expect
so hey are you still using the springs?
Is there any movement whatsoever? Is there any real difference compared to using 4 transducers without the isolators other than isolating the vibrations from the floor?
Yeah, the key distinction is that the transducers are far more efficient with the rig movement afforded by the springs.
The price compared to full motion is WAY less than I thought it would be. I thought, given the cost of full motion in mind, this would be 12-1500 USD at least. Few people with full motion use the full range as, unless you're driving offroad cars, it's not neccessary...this doesn't provide a lot of travel but for the vast majority of racers, it's just not needed...Great stuff!
Has nothing to do with motion, its isolating the vibrations.
Man that's kinda cool. My rig is way to heavy to be putting on springs tho. I am and have been interested in the rest of the kit tho. Having the feedback from those would be great even without the springs.
Atom, the springs are an integral part of it, without the springs your rig isn't free to move. You might feel some of the higher frequencies, but you miss out on the lower ones, and you need that variation to get the effect.
@@SlipAngleRacing my rig ways 800 to 900 pounds. I get it. As in why they are there. But... Being so beefy. I feel the vibration from my wheel in my pedals. Why I said just having the feedback without movement for me. Would be great. The only motion I would bother with or want is a D box system. But the rest of this kit is way better then one butt kicker.
@@SlipAngleRacing I already have my setup off the floor on rubber pads just fyi. Its a good 3 inches up.
Is this suitable for heavier Trak Racer RIGS? TR120 or TR160
Total weight capacity is currently 550lb/250kg. We're testing higher rate springs.
Thanks for the great review. Any ideas on how to make this set up work if my rig also happens to be on caster wheels?
You can buy some extrution and drill it out and bolt it to your rig then mount the legs to the ae
Mike i have tried so much to get wheel slip working in ams2 i just cant get it to works consistently is i bugged or can you get good on track slip feel in your transducers with simhub?
I think the transducers would definitely help. Are you running a motion setup now?
@@SimRacing604 i have 2 one front one back but with ams2 and simhub wheel slip is wonky...it rumbles even in a straight line...ive been looking online lots of people says its bugged but they are old threads
have you got good wheel slip feel,i can only get good fumble on kerbs and bumps ,,,wow on qk reply btw
Can I still move my rig around ?
Great review as always Mike
Really curious about this. I already have the transducers and amps, I'd buy the brackets+springs kit if Slip Angle gets it shipped to Europe.
Does anyone know if this kit will work with Trak racer rs6 frame??
I wish you had the Logitech DD for a proper test given True force. Don't worry about the rear because in real life in a mid or front engine the rear suspension is more stable or less active compared to the front otherwise you won't finish a lap let alone a race. Support all the way from Trinidad and Tobago. GGs
I do have the Logitech DD
@@SimRacing604 great so I'll look out for a full ACC race video. Locked on mate.
This is true i always crank up my rears more get a gokart affect, going to adjust now thanks.
Interesting. I guess I missed out on a business opportunity because I've have 4 bst1 transducers and 2 TTS pucks with my rig on 4 springs.
Is that your normal sim racing monitor? I can’t imagine having to look up at the tv the whole time.
Is the buttom area made of metal so i can screw it on my wood platform?
Yes, but please have a look at their website. They have changed the brackets since this video was made.
Do you think this would work in a 2nd story apartment?