Great video! Midwest folks appreciate the 350 Legend info. It had to be top three rifle rounds sold the last six months plus in Ohio. I bought 300 rounds when I got my Ruger American on black friday. Once December began the local gun shops had to tell ya whenever they could get some in especially the cheap fmj. Can’t wait for spring time! Thanks for the great info!
New sub and new to researching the .350 Legend - with interest in hog hunting. As you say, it appears that a more suitable bullet is in order for pigs. Thanks for the .350 info so far!
I have a suspicion that these would perform well if they struck a rib. But I'd prefer to find one that will expand without hitting something solid first.
You are doing some great work there. Where I live we don't have to use straight wall cartridges, but you kinda make me want to build a 350 legend anyway.
Thanks for testing the 350, I picked up one for this past deer season. Now I know to stay away from 180 Fed's. If you get a chance please load and test 147 xtps. That is one I've wanted to try since getting the 350. I'd also like to see how the new Hornady165 FTX's expand.
I think it would make an awsome military round for urban warfare. Lots of stopping power in the 150 to 200 yard range. Still has fairly low recoil too.
Good video on the newer 350 Legend! Just an FYI there is a $100 rebate on the Savage tactical rifles and a $75 rebate on the model 12 and 25 now through the end of February!
Just an FYI, Andrew from ARFCOM made a video explaining some of the shortcomings of clear ballistic gel. I don’t say this for any other reason than the video he did featuring the federal 10mm JSP (trophy bonded bear claw). He demonstrated that those soft point bullets performed similarly to the power shoks in you presentation in clear gel, but with “true” ballistics gel (beef gelatin I believe he said?) they performed flawlessly in regards to the expansion. I say this as you mentioned it being better for 25/50 yard shots possibly, when they are probably great at the distances they were fired from in actual animals and standard ballistics gel. Great video, hope this was helpful.
FYI JOSH KING But Andrew is not shooting Ballistic at 100 yards & 200 yards. He shoots at 10 yards and always with a 10.5" AR-15 Pistol.But then again 10mm pistols have nothing to do with the .350 Legend does it, a kin to comparing Dumptruck to a Volkswagen.
All ballistics gel is just meant to provide a consistent medium for comparing two or more shots and give a visual representation. No gel will ever show how a shot will perform on game or in a defensive roll, there are far too many tissues not represented in it. Hope everyone has a good day and happy shooting.
I'm hoping you'll get around to testing Federal Fusion in .350 Legend as I believe the 160g bullet may expand into petals (I'm hoping anyway). Great video as always.
As far as expansion goes I have had awsome luck with 180gr Winchester power points... absolutely devastating on White Tails in the north woods of Minnesota... And that is why I used fixed postion stocks... hate losing my beard hair....
I love this cartridge; so far, bolt gun or Encore only, no AR platforms. I have one constructive criticism for your testing: pull bullets out of sandbag with each round, not at the end.
From my experience the 150gr winchester deer season xp has one heck of a wound channel. Actually ruins some venison. Meat on front leg of deer was jelly.
Have you ever tried loading the 200gr remington core lock that comes loaded in the 35rem? How about the 180gr speer? Both of those have performed well in my Marlin.. I handload and I've wished for a 35 cal for the AR15 platform.. It's a great caliber and if you get into lead casting rolling your own reloads becomes super cheap..
I would suggest that you try the 165gr. Hornady FTX bullet. Midway supposedly just got some in stock. Also, Lil' Gun gives significantly higher velocities, according to all the reloading data I've seen. I have been loading for a Mossberg Patriot bolt-action; with the idea of using this round on deer next fall. I don't know what to expect as far as terminal results. In Winchester's promo vids, the deer drop quickly or in their tracks. If you watch closely, they have their celebs shoot the deer squarely in the neck or high through both shoulders - which is kind of padding the results. Videos on RUclips of non-biased consumers show more typical shot placement - with almost all of the deer running 60 to 100 yards. Most seem to have a decent blood trail, but I don't know of anyone who finds having to track every deer shot to be a bonus. The near-zero bullet expansion would likely be the culprit. A .22 magnum rimfire would likely wind up with nearly as much terminal diameter and permanent cavitation in the gel. Game animals don't care about that extra three feet (or three miles) of penetration; neither should potential gun buyers. Hunters want to see massive destruction from about 1.25" to 24" along the bullet's terminal track; along with acceptably straight-line penetration. This covers pretty much any reasonable shot angle. Anything beyond that is essentially wasted.
I'll try to find the FTX; the BC is certainly a draw. I have some of the Interlock on the bench right now when the weather clears up. Can't wait to see what it can do.
@@SocialRegressive That's what I'm loading now. I did geta 3-shot group that you could cover with a nickel at 50 yards (about 1" high of center). Surprisingly, two groups at 100 yards were about 5" high and 3" left - and also opened up to about 1.5". I plan to re-evaluate them this afternoon.
I get great terminal performance in my 35rem Marlin with the 200gr Remington Core Lock bullet.. If these are still available after the bankruptcy I would try those in your 350 Legend if they will work within your OAL..
Awesome. I am a subscriber and am looking forward to that video. I was running the nine mm65 Xtreme Defender out of my 16 inch barrel and getting crazy penetration. I don't have a way to test the velocity, but it's got to be high Oh, I put a coconut in front of six water jugs and I cannot stop that bullet.
Anyone else noticed that in general the bonded speer projectiles seems to perform better from smooth stainless barrels than the typical CHF barrels? Obviously that's likely to be the case with most pills but I feel like the speers and federal fusions never seem to group as well as I'd like from my carbon barrels.
Like your videos.. Question: I seen you are using 9mm projectiles. And my favorite brand (SPEER). Maybe load 124gr. & 147gr Speer Gold Dot HP and do ballistic gel test with them.. Keep up the good work.👍👍
@@SocialRegressive ,Maybe even try some 127gr. Winchester Ranger projectiles. The politically correct Black Talon. If they open up like they are supposed to do THAT would be NASTY .
I am looking to build an AR in this with a WWSD KP15 lower and a Davidson Defense upper. I am really interested in making this Calibre my do all rifle for everything from patrol duty to deer/hog/bear hunting. Just need to find the right load for all of it lol.
My 350 Legend 16" inch barrel and a 20 round duramag are on their way. Glad I only grabbed the 145 grn. fmj and 150 grn. Winchester XP ammo, the 180's just don't seem to perform at the slower velocities, even though the Winchester 180's seemed to do better than the Federal. But, I am going to get some 180 grn. factory ammo and file the flat lead tip off and drill a shallow hollow point in the tip. Should still leave me with a fairly heavy bullet that may balance expansion and penetration, 165 grn. or so I'm thinking, would be nice it performed even similar to the 160 grn. Power Max Bonded, we shall see. I will use them for shooting Texas hogs, hopefully with good results.
@@SocialRegressive I haven't used any of them yet, still waiting on my barrel and magazine to arrive. I have been watching and enjoying your series on the 350 Legend and the ammo tests, it appeared the 180's didn't perform all that great as compared to the 150 XP. Of course that was in gel not a tough hog. I figured I would try the 150 XP first and see if it achieved the penetrating needed. But my 7.62x39 round nose soft point 123's do fine so I'm assuming the 150's will be fine. I liked the speed of the 150's better as well. If you have an opinion on which ammo would be best for hogs I would love to hear it.
The 180 grains I shot from the 308 stopped inside of the last hog I shot with no exit wounds I'm pretty sure they hit bone that stopped them all real fast on that big hog Put some 3/4 inch plywood in between each block like one in the front one in the middle and one behind to simulate some hog bones
the powershok's are proably expected to hit bone to aid in expansion possibly. Though,that's not entirely reliable to do every time. How come you didn't test out any of the ballistic tips that are on the market?
It had a slow start because of the ammo. I'm hoping that it catches on now because we have a bunch of really darn good ammunition options. I just finished testing a gob of new loads from Winchester, Hornady, and Browning, and they're all flippin' awesome.
i am looking at the 350 as varmint round, it think the winchester 147 would be a good test for a homemade hollowpoint? Since I do not reload, the lehigh and cast hp are out of my reach.
About 4:25😂 I hate when that happens! I'm just getting started with the 350 and I want to use Lehigh 118's. I'm having a hard time finding load data. Can you give me a starting load? Powder availability now is hopeless! I have BE 86, Power Pistol and 760 to work with.
Fairly new into rifles, I'd like to see some see some of Lehigh defense. Extreme penetrators an extreme defenders in 9 m m if I'm understanding this correctly.
@@SocialRegressive I am using a Ruger Scout Rifle.. my AR has a KAK barrel and is very finiky on feeding...I have had to modify my mags to get some ammos to cycle.. I can try these loads in my new barrel when I get it.. but for right now I am getting 1/2" groups at 75 yards wich is my standard distance I hunt in most of my spots ???
Not encouraging performance for a factory hunting round. I wonder if those Power Shok bullets weren't designed for one of the larger 358 rifle cartridges.
I've been using the 150 gr deer seasons, but they are almost 40 dollars per box. Kinda hard to practice with my hunting loads when they're over a dollar per round
@@SocialRegressive yeah i have, but my particular savage 110 can't print the 180 gr stuff to save it's life, i get like 6 inch groups with it. But with the 150gr deer season or the 170 gr AW from hornady, it prints way better, usually under an inch
This synthetic gel has a low flash point. When the bullet cuts through it seems to vaporize some of it, then the compressing wound channel detonates it like a diesel piston. That's the best explanation I've heard so far, anyway.
Does anyone know the science behind why the bullet produces that flash of light when inside the gell? Is it creating gas then going so fast with friction that it ignites?always wondered that.awesome tests I’m starting to mess around with loading.350 it’s nice that I can use some of my lead from my 9mm stock.
The flash of light you are seeing is known as a sonoluminescent event. Sonoluminescence is the emission of short bursts of light from imploding bubbles in a liquid when excited by sound. Put simply it is a collapsing air chamber that explodes due to a violent change in pressure. Basically, the air gets compressed so rapidly that the oxygen ignites. It's basically the same concept as a fire plunger- if you compress oxygen hard and fast enough, it ignites.
@@SocialRegressive I built an AR using a custom barrel from DeadShotBarrels. I just took a chamber casting, and it seems to be on the tighter side... I'm starting to suspect the chamber is to blame. I'll keep experimenting.
This is all very similar to early (poor) 300BLK loads using 308win projectiles... 300blk speed is too low relative to 308win so the projectiles just punch right through like pistol FMJ rounds. Not good!
Speer and Sierra bullets always perform. Hornady xtp are very hard. They do not expand at useful velocity. Load a Speer gold for in there. You will be impressed. Or use a copper coated lead bullet. The 350 leg is more than enough rifle to expand a bullet, just gotta find a better one. BTW, who shoots deer or pigs past 100 meters? We can not see past that here.
Just got an 8.5 inch AR pistol barrel in 350 Legend, 170 gr Hornady bullets, cases, couple plastic jars of Lil Gun, and a set of Lee dies. Gonna go to work and maybe I'll be able to find an AR pistol lower to put it all together.
This should be devastating on hogs. Their own anatomy (bones) should help those bullets do their job. The slow- mo appeared to show the 180's dumping more of their energy in the first block. (DIY tip : Just carefully cut an X on the meplat slightly (about .5 mm) into the jacket for effective expansion.) You should want a decent pass through for blood trailng if necessary. I believe your group will tighten up with .356 - .357's instead of the .355's Remember .001- .002 over groove dia. works best for accuracy. Take a lee 9mm sizing die and hone it to .356 It only takes a moment with 600 grit on a dowel.
I have a dumb question. If 350 legend is a 9mm handgun SIZED projectile, why couldn't you load a Federal Hst 147, or Speer Gold dot? They would be lighter (faster) and we know they expand like nutz! Does it have to do with the Speed of the projectiles? Too fast for expansion? Handguns are waay slower so...I actually emailed Federal about it. They stated that they knew nothing of the possibility. Lmbo...Um your a ammunition manufacturer. And the Hst's are right over there on aisle 6...
I can understand Federal not wanting to give a public statement about using their bullets in 350 Legend; they were designed for much lower velocities, and they might behave in an unexpected manner. That said, you're darn right, and I plan to test a good handful of 9mm handgun bullets. I have a handful on my bench right now.
The best explanation I've heard is that the gel vaporizes as the bullet passes through, creating a cloud of oil vapor that then detonates under compression when the cavity collapses.
9:50 I think it just goes to show that ballistics gel can't simulate a hunting experience. Looking at comments from 350 Legend hunters over the past two seasons would show that bullets like the Federal are having good success, while .223 has always been marginal on deer at best.
I'll need read down below to see what folks are saying about this load. I've heard positive reports on the ballistic-tip Federal ammo. If this one's working, then it's the real world that counts.
@@SocialRegressive are there any other rifle cartridges that can do this type of thing and use the same bullets a pistol cartridge? I've never seen that before
I tested some 147 gr. Speer Gold Dots with 24 grains of Win-296. They mushroom out great but lose over half their weight when shot into water jugs. I also worked up a load of 27 gr. Accurate 1680, shoots good and no over pressure signs. 16" BCA upper
unfortunately, speed is crucial with projectile performance... unless you load to 9mm speeds, you will not see reliable performance with 9mm projectiles. Youre loading them way outside the original design parameters of the bullet. Theres no such thing as a projectile for all FPS range. Doesnt exist.
Implossion from the temporary cavity created.. just like when your bicycle pump gets warm, this compresses oxygen and other trace gasses to massive levels causing self combustion.
If you're having trouble with expansion at that range, I'd think about loading a nosler hollow point. They lose their jacket but have a very soft lead core that expands and stays together. I shoot a 200gr out of a 40 cal.
Get a Lee .356" sizing die. You can size "38" bullets to work in the .355 groove diameter of the Legend.. or buy a 358 Legend (wildcat), which it should have been anyway IMHO. Also why did they go 1:14 instead of 1:12?? Then you have a huge assortment of bullets. I resize 358's for my Legend. I shoot subsonic mostly. Speer 250 gr HotCore at 1040 fps. 21 gr H335 in a 9" barrel does the trick. If you can find any, the Hornady 180 gr Single Shot Pistol bullets, which were made for the 357 MAXIMUM in the TC, are ideal. (No longer made). They were made to expand at slower speeds. Just resize them first.
Ok, this a lesson for all who use ballistics gel. Your trying to compare these using mainly hunting rounds, so the lesson is, put some deer hide and a pack of ribs in front of the gel. It will be a better comparison to an actual animal, giving a truer reallity and comparison. All people doing these video tests just don't give a true represintation not doing this. Next i will offer a tip that will also help, when making a alot of shots in the same blocks, take some differant coloured strings or straws ( I like peices of large diamiter weed eater line) and pusher rod or dowl and feed it into the previous channels cut so theres no confusion. It adds a couple minutes to your process but well worth the time. A dowl longer than the block or blocks with a hole at end to hold the line while easly pushing it thru really works well.
I have tentative plans to test some of these with a bone simulant, but it's a messy business. Gel is difficult enough to deal with; bits of plastic or bone would be horrible. I love the idea of using colored straws. It's genius, and I'm totally gonna do that.
@@SocialRegressive yea i get that. It's hell on gel. Thats one reason why i use stacks of old news print soaked in water. Those i can throw away or burn if real bad. I use to use phone books as they would give them away when distro was over. Ive took note from Paul Harrell and use the plastic vac pack ribs, when can get out of date from local groceary. They sometimes let me on promise not to consume or sell, give away or use other than the P.H. way. The plastic wrap helps cut down on mess but not enough to use expensive clear gel. But for inexpensive home made gel works ok when can't get enough news print. Works both ways for me as im not filming for show, just looking at bullet performance at distances of intended use. Thankyou for responding and hope it works out for you.
You might like it better after seeing the other gel tests. The Federal didn't really work, but the others dump massive amounts of energy. ruclips.net/p/PLCzJy0eY5h1GFShwymjMsd8yQDHuYFHdU
Thought about that cartridge as a new toy for hunting. I am not impressed have yet to see a test where it dumps any major energy into the first 10 inches. Either needs softer lead bullets or something. Hate shoulder shots for meat damage that be about only shot for quick clean kills without long tracking needed.
Check out the rest of the videos in the series. I found some factory loads that are exactly what you're looking for: ruclips.net/p/PLCzJy0eY5h1GFShwymjMsd8yQDHuYFHdU
Well to be fair, you are shooting pistol bullets out of a rifle cartridge, pistol bullets that may be designed for better mushrooming performance at slower speeds. Just a thought.
A softer bullet designed for lower speed expansion would have had almost explosive performance at 350 legend velocities. The problem is that I suspect that Federal is using a bullet designed for the larger cased 358 rifle rounds and designed to perform at faster speeds. That bullet probably would perform well in 358 federal.
Great question. I suspect that they would not be able to handle these pressures and velocities, but they should still perform well with a reduced charge.
Plated bullets typically cannot handle more than 1200 fps according to Berrys and other mfgs. Faster and the soft copper plating smears in the bore and does not follow rifling correctly
I've shot a bunch of 335gr rainer plated out of my 18" 50 beo going 2077 fps (very OP) and they worked great. just like they should with no stripping. Alexander Arms used those for one of the loads they sold. about to try rainer plated 147gr in the 350L as soon as brass shows up. I'm kinda late to the show on the 350L, not sure if you can even get the rainer plated bullets anymore (i have a lot of them) but these rifles don't have much for twist rates, it's been my experience they work great in the 50beo.
Every hype that the shooting community suggests is that those slow moving heavy horrible sectional density bullets shouldn’t have made it to the target and let alone penetrate more than 1/2” into the block.
@@SocialRegressive. Ha! very true. the more and more i get into shooting i realize. skinny fast = good flight path (not to confuse with accurate shooting) wide heavy = good terminal ballistics good video sir keep em coming. id like to see more of these large caliber rounds.
The wound channels are a little disappointing. Get some 147 grain gold dots or fort Scott munitions light weight pointed ammo should get some blazing speeds out of it flatter trajectory and good tumbling in the gel.
A properly designed bullet would not allow this to happen, effectively transferring most of its energy into the block. I’d be interested to see HORNADY Leverevolution ammo applied here.
Plenty of power for dear size game and defense , I'm sure caliber specific bullets will be developed for more specialized performance. This will probably become as popular as the legendary 30-30 Win to future generations of American hunters.
@@SocialRegressive I agree and people need to realize that animal muscle and tissue is denser than human, And I'm saying mad because most ballistic gel is calibrated for human tissue obviously. And yes I can imagine that unflavored jello would be pretty disgusting.
@@SocialRegressive sure, but you need to handle worst case scenario. If they work any better with solids, it wont be reliable in hunting as you never know if you hit anything but soft tissue.. hate to be the person having to find a deer with a pinhole exitwound.
I have a question concerning the gell length. Most deer are shot from the side or at a slight angle. How thick is a deer heart lung shot going across the deer. I don't see it being over 16-18 inches. So I think we would want a quickly expanding projectile.(deer only) Moose, Elk bear etc would need a continuing expansion, is this not a true statement? Now here's what I do: I educate people on how if they believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life! People are like computers; we all have a default mode. It is that we are all sinners, headed toward hell. GOD's Word declares, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God....Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
I think you're right. Take into account that this is 10% gel, though, and deer more closely resemble 20%. That might explain why I'm hearing about a 50-50 split on the deer season xp exiting the animals.
Not really impressed. 24 inches before a fair looking wound channel. Just not impressive. A hollow point should be where you started, or a soft point. 30+ inches of penetration isn't a good hunting round.
Winchester. Was hunting in Texas with a 243. Using Federal Fusion and Winchester deer season. 2 deer shot with each. Fusion broadside shots passed through. Deer went maybe 50 or less on both those. Shot one deer with the Deer Season frontal and down hill. When the Deer Season connected, it sat the deer on its hind legs, then it fell over the other broadside shot, it went a few steps and thay was it. Now you may not say 50' is not that bad, but one of the fusion deer ran into a cactus patch...that sucked.
I literally just bought one of these in a Ruger bolt action. I'm now even more confident in my freedom crayon rifle
Hahaha freedom crayon
Great video! Midwest folks appreciate the 350 Legend info. It had to be top three rifle rounds sold the last six months plus in Ohio. I bought 300 rounds when I got my Ruger American on black friday. Once December began the local gun shops had to tell ya whenever they could get some in especially the cheap fmj. Can’t wait for spring time! Thanks for the great info!
I appreciate you doing these tests. I've been wanting to make good 350, or 450 pistol loads. Particularly unique "home defense rounds".
The facial hair removal is why my gun now wears an A1 butstock lol.
Nice *light show* inside those gel blocks, on the slowmo!
😎
I noticed that too! Interesting!
New sub and new to researching the .350 Legend - with interest in hog hunting. As you say, it appears that a more suitable bullet is in order for pigs. Thanks for the .350 info so far!
I have a suspicion that these would perform well if they struck a rib. But I'd prefer to find one that will expand without hitting something solid first.
I really like those annealed copper hollow points, oh boy how big buds they can make!
You are doing some great work there. Where I live we don't have to use straight wall cartridges, but you kinda make me want to build a 350 legend anyway.
It's so darn easy to build an upper. The only specific parts are the barrel and mag. Everything else is standard .223-spec.
@UCQBvqyjpeh6ju1W3uwQIj3A got my ammo JUST before the Kung-Flu
Thanks for testing the 350, I picked up one for this past deer season. Now I know to stay away from 180 Fed's. If you get a chance please load and test 147 xtps. That is one I've wanted to try since getting the 350. I'd also like to see how the new Hornady165 FTX's expand.
I think it would make an awsome military round for urban warfare. Lots of stopping power in the 150 to 200 yard range. Still has fairly low recoil too.
You want a little more velocity against varmint. No need to preserve the meat
with 125 gr xtps.....it'd be phenomenal
Good video on the newer 350 Legend!
Just an FYI there is a $100 rebate on the Savage tactical rifles and a $75 rebate on the model 12 and 25 now through the end of February!
Thanks for the heads-up!
Just an FYI, Andrew from ARFCOM made a video explaining some of the shortcomings of clear ballistic gel. I don’t say this for any other reason than the video he did featuring the federal 10mm JSP (trophy bonded bear claw). He demonstrated that those soft point bullets performed similarly to the power shoks in you presentation in clear gel, but with “true” ballistics gel (beef gelatin I believe he said?) they performed flawlessly in regards to the expansion. I say this as you mentioned it being better for 25/50 yard shots possibly, when they are probably great at the distances they were fired from in actual animals and standard ballistics gel. Great video, hope this was helpful.
FYI JOSH KING But Andrew is not shooting Ballistic at 100 yards & 200 yards. He shoots at 10 yards and always with a 10.5" AR-15 Pistol.But then again 10mm pistols have nothing to do with the .350 Legend does it, a kin to comparing Dumptruck to a Volkswagen.
All ballistics gel is just meant to provide a consistent medium for comparing two or more shots and give a visual representation. No gel will ever show how a shot will perform on game or in a defensive roll, there are far too many tissues not represented in it.
Hope everyone has a good day and happy shooting.
I'm hoping you'll get around to testing Federal Fusion in .350 Legend as I believe the 160g bullet may expand into petals (I'm hoping anyway).
Great video as always.
I bought a bunch of 170 grain hornady American whitetails with there interlock bullet. I’m curious to see the expansion of these
Wow those weights are all over the place!! I wish they get better quality control and weights fluctuate less
“speers straight through”...pun intended
As far as expansion goes I have had awsome luck with 180gr Winchester power points... absolutely devastating on White Tails in the north woods of Minnesota...
And that is why I used fixed postion stocks... hate losing my beard hair....
Thanks for the report. How did they perform on bone?
I love this cartridge; so far, bolt gun or Encore only, no AR platforms. I have one constructive criticism for your testing: pull bullets out of sandbag with each round, not at the end.
From my experience the 150gr winchester deer season xp has one heck of a wound channel. Actually ruins some venison.
Meat on front leg of deer was jelly.
I have some on the way!
My son didnt get a pass through with his XP on a 25 yard shot. No blood trail at all. Luckily she only went 40 yards and the inside was a mess...
Have you ever tried loading the 200gr remington core lock that comes loaded in the 35rem? How about the 180gr speer? Both of those have performed well in my Marlin.. I handload and I've wished for a 35 cal for the AR15 platform.. It's a great caliber and if you get into lead casting rolling your own reloads becomes super cheap..
Tacos and gun channels are the best.
Full. Lead. Taco.
@@SocialRegressive thats what I was thinking, but i haven't seen a taco video yet
I would suggest that you try the 165gr. Hornady FTX bullet. Midway supposedly just got some in stock. Also, Lil' Gun gives significantly higher velocities, according to all the reloading data I've seen.
I have been loading for a Mossberg Patriot bolt-action; with the idea of using this round on deer next fall. I don't know what to expect as far as terminal results. In Winchester's promo vids, the deer drop quickly or in their tracks. If you watch closely, they have their celebs shoot the deer squarely in the neck or high through both shoulders - which is kind of padding the results. Videos on RUclips of non-biased consumers show more typical shot placement - with almost all of the deer running 60 to 100 yards. Most seem to have a decent blood trail, but I don't know of anyone who finds having to track every deer shot to be a bonus. The near-zero bullet expansion would likely be the culprit. A .22 magnum rimfire would likely wind up with nearly as much terminal diameter and permanent cavitation in the gel. Game animals don't care about that extra three feet (or three miles) of penetration; neither should potential gun buyers.
Hunters want to see massive destruction from about 1.25" to 24" along the bullet's terminal track; along with acceptably straight-line penetration. This covers pretty much any reasonable shot angle. Anything beyond that is essentially wasted.
I'll try to find the FTX; the BC is certainly a draw. I have some of the Interlock on the bench right now when the weather clears up. Can't wait to see what it can do.
@@SocialRegressive That's what I'm loading now. I did geta 3-shot group that you could cover with a nickel at 50 yards (about 1" high of center). Surprisingly, two groups at 100 yards were about 5" high and 3" left - and also opened up to about 1.5". I plan to re-evaluate them this afternoon.
I was wondering how a Barnes triple X357 magnum bullet would work in that calibre
I get great terminal performance in my 35rem Marlin with the 200gr Remington Core Lock bullet.. If these are still available after the bankruptcy I would try those in your 350 Legend if they will work within your OAL..
I bet they would; I would just have to size them down.
your going to get me buying another upper. dam you.
💰💥
It's like a 9mm "super carbine" load. Would make a great FMJ urban combat round for military.
Awesome. I am a subscriber and am looking forward to that video. I was running the nine mm65 Xtreme Defender out of my 16 inch barrel and getting crazy penetration. I don't have a way to test the velocity, but it's got to be high Oh, I put a coconut in front of six water jugs and I cannot stop that bullet.
Anyone else noticed that in general the bonded speer projectiles seems to perform better from smooth stainless barrels than the typical CHF barrels? Obviously that's likely to be the case with most pills but I feel like the speers and federal fusions never seem to group as well as I'd like from my carbon barrels.
Barrel material makes no difference at all.
Are those flashes from cavitation? Is that whats causing the scorch marks?
Like your videos.. Question:
I seen you are using 9mm projectiles.
And my favorite brand (SPEER).
Maybe load 124gr. & 147gr Speer Gold Dot HP and do ballistic gel test with them..
Keep up the good work.👍👍
If the nose shape will feed, that would be a nasty wrecking ball.
@@SocialRegressive ,Maybe even try some 127gr. Winchester Ranger projectiles.
The politically correct Black Talon.
If they open up like they are supposed to do THAT would be NASTY .
Looks like these ammo companies really need to go back to the R&D room.
I am looking to build an AR in this with a WWSD KP15 lower and a Davidson Defense upper. I am really interested in making this Calibre my do all rifle for everything from patrol duty to deer/hog/bear hunting. Just need to find the right load for all of it lol.
Nice job of providing interesting informational videos without conforming to the typical gun nut characters.
Try the winchester extreme tip bullet if you the energy dump
My 350 Legend 16" inch barrel and a 20 round duramag are on their way. Glad I only grabbed the 145 grn. fmj and 150 grn. Winchester XP ammo, the 180's just don't seem to perform at the slower velocities, even though the Winchester 180's seemed to do better than the Federal. But, I am going to get some 180 grn. factory ammo and file the flat lead tip off and drill a shallow hollow point in the tip. Should still leave me with a fairly heavy bullet that may balance expansion and penetration, 165 grn. or so I'm thinking, would be nice it performed even similar to the 160 grn. Power Max Bonded, we shall see. I will use them for shooting Texas hogs, hopefully with good results.
A lot of folks are coming back with good reports on the Win XP. I'm surprised the Win 180s haven't worked well for you. What are they doing?
@@SocialRegressive I haven't used any of them yet, still waiting on my barrel and magazine to arrive. I have been watching and enjoying your series on the 350 Legend and the ammo tests, it appeared the 180's didn't perform all that great as compared to the 150 XP. Of course that was in gel not a tough hog. I figured I would try the 150 XP first and see if it achieved the penetrating needed. But my 7.62x39 round nose soft point 123's do fine so I'm assuming the 150's will be fine. I liked the speed of the 150's better as well. If you have an opinion on which ammo would be best for hogs I would love to hear it.
The 180 grains I shot from the 308 stopped inside of the last hog I shot with no exit wounds
I'm pretty sure they hit bone that stopped them all real fast on that big hog
Put some 3/4 inch plywood in between each block like one in the front one in the middle and one behind to simulate some hog bones
I think that would make all the difference. I imagine these would cut through bone and deform quite a bit.
the powershok's are proably expected to hit bone to aid in expansion possibly. Though,that's not entirely reliable to do every time. How come you didn't test out any of the ballistic tips that are on the market?
I would like to see .357 170 grain hawk bullets shot in to the gel
Why did you reload using a 9mm .355 bullet when the factory bullet is.357?
Very cool say we're did you guys get that brass catcher at I need it I do reloading also 👍🇺🇸
This is the UTG brass catcher. I modded it with Kydex so it would stay open.
Man I want to like this round, just not seeing it catch on like I was hoping.
It had a slow start because of the ammo. I'm hoping that it catches on now because we have a bunch of really darn good ammunition options. I just finished testing a gob of new loads from Winchester, Hornady, and Browning, and they're all flippin' awesome.
I very much enjoyed the ballistic gel tests.
( What is the Make and Model of the Brass Catcher ? )
Thanks, Chet! This is a UTG brass catcher, and I don't recommend it. Try the Caldwell.
Thank You My Friend :-D
i am looking at the 350 as varmint round, it think the winchester 147 would be a good test for a homemade hollowpoint? Since I do not reload, the lehigh and cast hp are out of my reach.
With a bolt-action rifle, that should be a killer formula. An AR might not feed that bullet, though.
About 4:25😂 I hate when that happens! I'm just getting started with the 350 and I want to use Lehigh 118's. I'm having a hard time finding load data. Can you give me a starting load? Powder availability now is hopeless! I have BE 86, Power Pistol and 760 to work with.
Maybe try reloading a 200gr 357? Maybe drill a hollow point in it?
Do they make 350 legend with a bullet that can expand well?
Federal has a ballistic tip that probably works well. Haven't tried it yet.
What are the heaviest possible hand loads? I’ve seen 265 for factory
That's the heaviest I've seen. There are some hornady interlock .358 projectiles that weigh 250 grains
Now do this with Grendel, ARC, 223, blowout and 300HMAR if possible.
This is the gel tests I like to see. Bullet function at 100+ yards.
I have tests with 6mm ARC, .223 Rem, and 6.8 Western: ruclips.net/video/MTNQRnGWDUA/видео.html
Fairly new into rifles, I'd like to see some see some of Lehigh defense. Extreme penetrators an extreme defenders in 9 m m if I'm understanding this correctly.
I have some loaded up for testing right now!
Did you ever get that Lehigh defense tested?
Check out that Leigh High defense bullets, over on the "AP2020 Outdoors" channel. He has loaded great shots, in his 350 Legend.
I have been using the 147gr Hornady XTP HP with LILGun and getting awsome accuracy... wish I had some gel to shoot them into...
Are you using an ar? I'm curious to hear how they feed.
@@SocialRegressive I am using a Ruger Scout Rifle.. my AR has a KAK barrel and is very finiky on feeding...I have had to modify my mags to get some ammos to cycle.. I can try these loads in my new barrel when I get it.. but for right now I am getting 1/2" groups at 75 yards wich is my standard distance I hunt in most of my spots ???
Not encouraging performance for a factory hunting round. I wonder if those Power Shok bullets weren't designed for one of the larger 358 rifle cartridges.
Yeah, I suspect it needs more speed than 350 Legend can give it.
350 legend can only accept bullets up to 357 caliber (max). The 358 won't work in the barrels this round is chambered in.
@DR Dan XTPs are flying bombs from my Henry 357 lever action. You get massive expansion and jacket separation. They turn water jugs inside out.
I've been using the 150 gr deer seasons, but they are almost 40 dollars per box. Kinda hard to practice with my hunting loads when they're over a dollar per round
Have you tried the super x loads? They're more economical, and they hit like a freight train.
@@SocialRegressive yeah i have, but my particular savage 110 can't print the 180 gr stuff to save it's life, i get like 6 inch groups with it. But with the 150gr deer season or the 170 gr AW from hornady, it prints way better, usually under an inch
Wouldn't that be considered overpenetration?
Hey honcho. I like them pants. What hind are they?
I think these are the Tru Spec Xpedition pants. Crazy comfortable and tough.
What exactly is the flash of light inside of the gel targets? Is it burning powder or what?
This synthetic gel has a low flash point. When the bullet cuts through it seems to vaporize some of it, then the compressing wound channel detonates it like a diesel piston. That's the best explanation I've heard so far, anyway.
The Social Regressive Well THATS pretty cool stuff there.Thanks for the info.
Does anyone know the science behind why the bullet produces that flash of light when inside the gell? Is it creating gas then going so fast with friction that it ignites?always wondered that.awesome tests I’m starting to mess around with loading.350 it’s nice that I can use some of my lead from my 9mm stock.
The flash of light you are seeing is known as a sonoluminescent event. Sonoluminescence is the emission of short bursts of light from imploding bubbles in a liquid when excited by sound. Put simply it is a collapsing air chamber that explodes due to a violent change in pressure.
Basically, the air gets compressed so rapidly that the oxygen ignites.
It's basically the same concept as a fire plunger- if you compress oxygen hard and fast enough, it ignites.
@@jonquirk9582 very cool thank you,👍🏿👍🏿 science!
I have been having all kinds of trouble using .357 bullets. Bulges the case just a bit too much and won’t chamber or extract smoothly
Interesting. What rifle are you using?
@@SocialRegressive I built an AR using a custom barrel from DeadShotBarrels. I just took a chamber casting, and it seems to be on the tighter side... I'm starting to suspect the chamber is to blame. I'll keep experimenting.
The Social Regressive Are you using the CMMG barrel you’ve referred to? Okay with .357 projectiles?
This is all very similar to early (poor) 300BLK loads using 308win projectiles... 300blk speed is too low relative to 308win so the projectiles just punch right through like pistol FMJ rounds. Not good!
I’m wondering how hornady’s 170 grain interlock is considering that’s what I’ve bought a bunch of
Speer and Sierra bullets always perform. Hornady xtp are very hard. They do not expand at useful velocity. Load a Speer gold for in there. You will be impressed. Or use a copper coated lead bullet. The 350 leg is more than enough rifle to expand a bullet, just gotta find a better one. BTW, who shoots deer or pigs past 100 meters? We can not see past that here.
Dot
what brass catcher are you using?
It's a UTG that's pretty junky. I fixed it up with Kydex so it stays open. The Caldwell looks a lot better.
Try some hornaday 170gr. Soft points behind 24.5gr. of LiL-Gun
Just got an 8.5 inch AR pistol barrel in 350 Legend, 170 gr Hornady bullets, cases, couple plastic jars of Lil Gun, and a set of Lee dies. Gonna go to work and maybe I'll be able to find an AR pistol lower to put it all together.
This should be devastating on hogs. Their own anatomy (bones) should help those bullets do their job. The slow- mo appeared to show the 180's dumping more of their energy in the first block. (DIY tip : Just carefully cut an X on the meplat slightly (about .5 mm) into the jacket for effective expansion.) You should want a decent pass through for blood trailng if necessary. I believe your group will tighten up with .356 - .357's instead of the .355's Remember .001- .002 over groove dia. works best for accuracy. Take a lee 9mm sizing die and hone it to .356 It only takes a moment with 600 grit on a dowel.
I suspect you're right on all points, DL. So far the .357s are producing better accuracy than .355s.
@@SocialRegressive No prob KB, I know I'm preachin to the choir anyway.
I have a dumb question. If 350 legend is a 9mm handgun SIZED projectile, why couldn't you load a Federal Hst 147, or Speer Gold dot? They would be lighter (faster) and we know they expand like nutz! Does it have to do with the Speed of the projectiles? Too fast for expansion? Handguns are waay slower so...I actually emailed Federal about it. They stated that they knew nothing of the possibility. Lmbo...Um your a ammunition manufacturer. And the Hst's are right over there on aisle 6...
I can understand Federal not wanting to give a public statement about using their bullets in 350 Legend; they were designed for much lower velocities, and they might behave in an unexpected manner. That said, you're darn right, and I plan to test a good handful of 9mm handgun bullets. I have a handful on my bench right now.
Why are there flashes within the gel as the bullets pass through? IS that gunpowder - what is going on?
The best explanation I've heard is that the gel vaporizes as the bullet passes through, creating a cloud of oil vapor that then detonates under compression when the cavity collapses.
@@SocialRegressive - Makes sense. It seems as pressure builds inside the gel there are detonations because it's not a constant burn.
9:50 I think it just goes to show that ballistics gel can't simulate a hunting experience. Looking at comments from 350 Legend hunters over the past two seasons would show that bullets like the Federal are having good success, while .223 has always been marginal on deer at best.
I'll need read down below to see what folks are saying about this load. I've heard positive reports on the ballistic-tip Federal ammo. If this one's working, then it's the real world that counts.
When are they gonna make the extreme penatrators
I think I can handload some. Time to place an order.
so 9mm pistol bullets will work with 350 legend? that's so cool. there must be a gigantic selection of self defense hollow points then
That's one of the things I like most about 350 Legend. So far the pistol bullets are dealing with the higher pressures just fine.
@@SocialRegressive are there any other rifle cartridges that can do this type of thing and use the same bullets a pistol cartridge? I've never seen that before
I tested some 147 gr. Speer Gold Dots with 24 grains of Win-296.
They mushroom out great but lose over half their weight when shot into water jugs. I also worked up a load of 27 gr. Accurate 1680, shoots good and no over pressure signs.
16" BCA upper
@@oso1165 Potentially 45 ACP bullets in a 450 BM rifle? Or maybe 50 AE or 50 GI rounds in 50 beowulf.
unfortunately, speed is crucial with projectile performance... unless you load to 9mm speeds, you will not see reliable performance with 9mm projectiles. Youre loading them way outside the original design parameters of the bullet. Theres no such thing as a projectile for all FPS range. Doesnt exist.
5:05 haha she pooted
How do you get it to feed?
The Federal fed with no issues from my mags. The bullets have a decently long nose.
Try a handload using hornady 357 ftx for curiosity
Can you buy the FTX bullets as components? I was wanting those.
@@SocialRegressive yes they even made a 350 legend specific .355 165gr FTX one but yes the 357mag 140gr FTX are sold I seen them Midway usa site
Why is there a spark in the gel. ? The bullet can't be dragging powder behind it .. c4
It is the heat caused by the rapid expansion and compression of gas sucked into the block by the bullet.
Implossion from the temporary cavity created.. just like when your bicycle pump gets warm, this compresses oxygen and other trace gasses to massive levels causing self combustion.
He's shooting incendiary armor piercing rounds 🤣
@@jmkhenka so like a diesel engine?. But what is the fuel oxigen ? Anyway sounds logical thanks.
65 grain Lehigh defense extreme defenders
If you're having trouble with expansion at that range, I'd think about loading a nosler hollow point. They lose their jacket but have a very soft lead core that expands and stays together. I shoot a 200gr out of a 40 cal.
Get a Lee .356" sizing die. You can size "38" bullets to work in the .355 groove diameter of the Legend.. or buy a 358 Legend (wildcat), which it should have been anyway IMHO. Also why did they go 1:14 instead of 1:12?? Then you have a huge assortment of bullets. I resize 358's for my Legend.
I shoot subsonic mostly. Speer 250 gr HotCore at 1040 fps. 21 gr H335 in a 9" barrel does the trick.
If you can find any, the Hornady 180 gr Single Shot Pistol bullets, which were made for the 357 MAXIMUM in the TC, are ideal. (No longer made). They were made to expand at slower speeds. Just resize them first.
Ok, this a lesson for all who use ballistics gel. Your trying to compare these using mainly hunting rounds, so the lesson is, put some deer hide and a pack of ribs in front of the gel. It will be a better comparison to an actual animal, giving a truer reallity and comparison. All people doing these video tests just don't give a true represintation not doing this.
Next i will offer a tip that will also help, when making a alot of shots in the same blocks, take some differant coloured strings or straws ( I like peices of large diamiter weed eater line) and pusher rod or dowl and feed it into the previous channels cut so theres no confusion. It adds a couple minutes to your process but well worth the time. A dowl longer than the block or blocks with a hole at end to hold the line while easly pushing it thru really works well.
I have tentative plans to test some of these with a bone simulant, but it's a messy business. Gel is difficult enough to deal with; bits of plastic or bone would be horrible.
I love the idea of using colored straws. It's genius, and I'm totally gonna do that.
@@SocialRegressive yea i get that. It's hell on gel. Thats one reason why i use stacks of old news print soaked in water. Those i can throw away or burn if real bad. I use to use phone books as they would give them away when distro was over. Ive took note from Paul Harrell and use the plastic vac pack ribs, when can get out of date from local groceary. They sometimes let me on promise not to consume or sell, give away or use other than the P.H. way. The plastic wrap helps cut down on mess but not enough to use expensive clear gel. But for inexpensive home made gel works ok when can't get enough news print. Works both ways for me as im not filming for show, just looking at bullet performance at distances of intended use.
Thankyou for responding and hope it works out for you.
Looks like a scaled 30 carb.
I was looking into 350 legend.... but I’m not liking the energy dump. Really inefficient hunting round great penetration though
You might like it better after seeing the other gel tests. The Federal didn't really work, but the others dump massive amounts of energy. ruclips.net/p/PLCzJy0eY5h1GFShwymjMsd8yQDHuYFHdU
Thought about that cartridge as a new toy for hunting. I am not impressed have yet to see a test where it dumps any major energy into the first 10 inches. Either needs softer lead bullets or something. Hate shoulder shots for meat damage that be about only shot for quick clean kills without long tracking needed.
Check out the rest of the videos in the series. I found some factory loads that are exactly what you're looking for: ruclips.net/p/PLCzJy0eY5h1GFShwymjMsd8yQDHuYFHdU
Well to be fair, you are shooting pistol bullets out of a rifle cartridge, pistol bullets that may be designed for better mushrooming performance at slower speeds. Just a thought.
We'll have some expanding options on way soon.
A softer bullet designed for lower speed expansion would have had almost explosive performance at 350 legend velocities. The problem is that I suspect that Federal is using a bullet designed for the larger cased 358 rifle rounds and designed to perform at faster speeds. That bullet probably would perform well in 358 federal.
Try some Hornady XTP bullets .
Got 'em right here. I just need to concoct a load.
That is some terrible over penetration lol. I did not know this about 350 legend.
Good video!
What was the COL on the speer 147 gr. ?
2.020" I think. It'll be in next Friday's video.
I hand loaded a batch, now I’m ready for my next range visit.
Do you know of any ammo checker for the 350 legend? Thanks
So winchester 150 or 180 are better
In all of my tests, yes. The Federal load was the most precise, though, both in terms of group size and velocity deviation.
Hornady now has some 170 interlock and 165 FTX loaded and components. The 165 FTX might expand well. www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/
Wonder if plated bullets would survive these pressures and velocities
Great question. I suspect that they would not be able to handle these pressures and velocities, but they should still perform well with a reduced charge.
Plated bullets typically cannot handle more than 1200 fps according to Berrys and other mfgs. Faster and the soft copper plating smears in the bore and does not follow rifling correctly
@@SocialRegressive I've shot Xtreme plated max charge . 357 mag h110 powder out of a 20" rifle with no issues. They drop fast after 200 yards
I've shot a bunch of 335gr rainer plated out of my 18" 50 beo going 2077 fps (very OP) and they worked great. just like they should with no stripping. Alexander Arms used those for one of the loads they sold. about to try rainer plated 147gr in the 350L as soon as brass shows up. I'm kinda late to the show on the 350L, not sure if you can even get the rainer plated bullets anymore (i have a lot of them) but these rifles don't have much for twist rates, it's been my experience they work great in the 50beo.
Maybe it's time for reloading books to change their guidance.
Sand will totally destroy a bullet
Fleece is your best stop …
Also pigs are not gel
Thick tuff hide , meat and bones
But your test proved accuracy
Every hype that the shooting community suggests is that those slow moving heavy horrible sectional density bullets shouldn’t have made it to the target and let alone penetrate more than 1/2” into the block.
Yet they'll say that .357 Magnum is God's right hand.
@@SocialRegressive. Ha! very true.
the more and more i get into shooting i realize.
skinny fast = good flight path (not to confuse with accurate shooting)
wide heavy = good terminal ballistics
good video sir keep em coming. id like to see more of these large caliber rounds.
I feel extremely vindicated by choosing the 300 Ham’r!!!
Got a lot of reeeeally good bullets to pick from. I must say, though, that I'm loving 350 Legend. It's just a matter of finding the right ammo.
The Social Regressive lightweight gold dots should do it
6.5 Grendel destroys all other AR15 rounds. If you dont have straight wall restrictions to worry about, the choice is clear.
T D B Not what I found with my Grendel. Not enough speed and not enough mass. But It did shoot well!!!
9mm hollow points would make a great self defense load.
If your magazine will feed them, they're devastating.
They are not exactly the same... The Non Typical is shorter than the Power Shok according to Federal specs...
You had me intrigued, so I checked my ammo. They're both identical. I wonder why they changed the listed specs.
The wound channels are a little disappointing. Get some 147 grain gold dots or fort Scott munitions light weight pointed ammo should get some blazing speeds out of it flatter trajectory and good tumbling in the gel.
On it. I have some new options on the way.
A properly designed bullet would not allow this to happen, effectively transferring most of its energy into the block. I’d be interested to see HORNADY Leverevolution ammo applied here.
Plenty of power for dear size game and defense , I'm sure caliber specific bullets will be developed for more specialized performance. This will probably become as popular as the legendary 30-30 Win to future generations of American hunters.
I hope so. The potential is there. It's all about nailing the right formula.
Not A chance
@@mjchunter8581 I think that's what everyone said when the 30-30 came out and challenged the venerable 30-06 .
Big game 180 loads.
it's dumping almost too late for deer
Ballistic gel is much different than an animal, bone muscle and hide will make a bullet expand better than a homogenous media.
Just remember, animals are not blocks of gel with legs.
Hopefully the animals taste better. These blocks of gel aren't tingling my tastebuds.
But more to your point, I think these Federal rounds would work very well when striking bone first.
@@SocialRegressive I agree and people need to realize that animal muscle and tissue is denser than human, And I'm saying mad because most ballistic gel is calibrated for human tissue obviously.
And yes I can imagine that unflavored jello would be pretty disgusting.
I expect better from federal
It has the accuracy. I think I'm going to try a test with simulated bone included.
@@SocialRegressive sure, but you need to handle worst case scenario. If they work any better with solids, it wont be reliable in hunting as you never know if you hit anything but soft tissue.. hate to be the person having to find a deer with a pinhole exitwound.
224 Valkyrie anyone?
faaaaaaail
Unless the word "Premium" appears in the name, I dont.
I have a question concerning the gell length. Most deer are shot from the side or at a slight angle. How thick is a deer heart lung shot going across the deer. I don't see it being over 16-18 inches. So I think we would want a quickly expanding projectile.(deer only) Moose, Elk bear etc would need a continuing expansion, is this not a true statement?
Now here's what I do:
I educate people on how if they believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life! People are like computers; we all have a default mode. It is that we are all sinners, headed toward hell.
GOD's Word declares, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God....Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
I think you're right. Take into account that this is 10% gel, though, and deer more closely resemble 20%. That might explain why I'm hearing about a 50-50 split on the deer season xp exiting the animals.
Not really impressed. 24 inches before a fair looking wound channel. Just not impressive. A hollow point should be where you started, or a soft point. 30+ inches of penetration isn't a good hunting round.
Gel block fart😆
Try Deer Season rounds.
Who makes those?
@@SocialRegressive I think Steve is speaking of the Winchester 150 gr. Deer Season XP loads.
@@handcannon1388 Gotcha. I have some on the way.
Winchester. Was hunting in Texas with a 243. Using Federal Fusion and Winchester deer season. 2 deer shot with each. Fusion broadside shots passed through. Deer went maybe 50 or less on both those. Shot one deer with the Deer Season frontal and down hill. When the Deer Season connected, it sat the deer on its hind legs, then it fell over the other broadside shot, it went a few steps and thay was it.
Now you may not say 50' is not that bad, but one of the fusion deer ran into a cactus patch...that sucked.