Late to the party here, but I have some interesting experience to share with the Winchester Super-X 180 grain 350L. I took a black bear this season using a 24" bolt action. First shot was 125 yards in the neck. It ran up the hill/mountain. Second shot 60 yards again to the neck. Still didn't go down. Third shot to the head dropped it. I would not use these for anything except deer. I recovered the two bullets in the neck, both failed miserably. Came apart and didn't do any noticeable damage to the spine where they both hit. The jackets completely separated from the core. The box says deer/hog/bear but I checked the Winchester website and they no longer say bear for this ammo. Daughter used this rifle and the same ammo at 60 yards on a small white tail the other day, dead right there. hit the shoulder and exited the other side. Friend shot a bigger white tail with it the same afternoon, double lung at 40 yards. Ran maybe 20 yards and dropped. Nice big exit wound. I used the Winchester Deer Season XP in 308 on a large white tail doe two days ago. Hit it in the neck at 100 yards and it didn't know what hit it. Dead right there. Destroyed the spine. Take this information for what it is I guess.
@SocialRegressive if you were to go on a black bear hunt, would you bring a full sized cartridge like a 308/6.5 creedmoore. or would you use a langer intermediate bullet like a 450 bushmaster?
I put a 150 Gr XP round through a 160 lb whitetail @ 150 yds. He sit down right there not even a twitch. The bullet went through and left blood 5-6 ft behind him in the bushes. This round is great for deer ive got a feeling it will be my go to gun next year.
It's pretty good. Dropped a buck dead at about 80 yards with it this year. The lungs looked like a grenade went off. I have never seen so much blood and chunks of organs in a deer before. Weird thing is though, it stopped in the organs, there was no exit hole
I have been using the 180 Super X for a couple years now and I haven’t had any problems with it and have even dropped some bucks. The farthest I have had a deer run is only about 80 yards and below
@@matthewwagner4042 I love mine I shot it 6 times to sight it in and shot once toward the end of deer season and got me one I like it BC of the knockdown power and my wife can shoot it BC it does not have any recoil
I also have the CVA scout single shot. I have only used the 150 deer season XP. And they are extremely accurate. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on deer.
Oldest took her first buck ( 11 point ) with the Winchester XP at 45-55 yards this weekend. Shot was perfect broadside heart/double lung. Buck made it maybe 70-80 yards. A third of the heart laid over like a fish fillet. She was ecstatic, I couldn't be happier for her and for the performance on game with this 350L load.
After watching your videos on federal and Winchester 350 legend, there is no doubt in my military mind that the Winchester outperforms the federal. I built a 350 ar with 20” faxon barrel which groups the 180 Winchester better than the 150. I also had some feeding issues with the 150xp
Thanks, I'm glad I'm hunting with the 180 gr power point. I don't want to track and then drag that deer back out. It's the cartridge for me. I'll leave the 145 gr fmj for plinking.
They're awesome! They go off like a bomb. My only complaint is i haven't gotten an exit wound. But i haven't needed one. Every deer i have shot with the deer season round has died in their tracks
@@jonquirk9582 I will say I recently shot another whitetail buck since I first commented. And I decided to shoot this deer on the neck since I wanted to save as much meat. The 180 grain PowerPoint did not exit the neck. It made practically a 90 degree turn and stopped on the front of the shoulder
OUTSTANDING REVIEW ! I have a 20" .350 Legend Bear Creek AR-15, and this is the ammo I will use on HOGs and Deer my .350 has a thermal scope for Hog Hunting.
I use both the 150xp and 180SP both are factory load. Boy would I like the 150xp hand loaded with lil gun to get more velocity. The last I seen Winchester only had the 180sp bullets available
The results of the XP load. Leads me to think a good hollow point may do well in this caliber. Have seen ( from you and others ) that there are quite a few factory loads that are not expanding very well.
@@SocialRegressive Scored a box of the 150gr tipped Winchester's and two boxes of the 145gr target loads. When I mentioned the pistol bullet idea. I was thinking of the Hornady HAP which aren't real meant to expand at pistol velocities. Think I may try them when I start working up a load.
@@racerboy4 pretty much no doubt it'll expand, the whole hp part is nothing but crimped jacket, no lead. (at least on the 140gr.) I think the question is how much and will the jacket stay on the core.
Yeah I want to see it in gel too... They shoot excellent in my gun I can tell you that. I'm getting around MOA maybe better than MOA with the FTX's. Unfortunately I get inconsistent results with the 150gr Winchesters.
I thought the 350 legend to be a great deer cartiage but max size 180 grain not taking advantage of the strait bore i worked up Hornaday ftx 200 grain loads just resized some 358 dia thru a sizing die took it down to .357 they shoot great hit hard what more can you ask for great for women and young hunters
The 350 Legend has me completely intrigued for use as a hog thumper cartridge here in Texas. That 180 grainer didn't seem to have the velocity needed for max expansion, but would certainly hit hard with plenty of penetration. I get a good number of shots on hogs at 50 yards and under and I bet at closer range the 180 would be a real expanding brute on hogs. I have the big question for you, do you think the 350 Legend will make it in the flooded market of AR cartridges or will it fall by the wayside like others before it? I really wanted .25-45 Sharps and .277 Wolverine to catch on in popularity, sadly they did not, so I didn't build for them. I would appreciate your thoughts on its future in the market.
I can never account for what the masses will do, but to me it stands out as so unique and purposeful that I think it won't be just another "me too" cartridge. Its longevity and market position will certainly be bolstered by straight-wall-only states like Ohio.
@@SocialRegressive I have the same feeling about the cartridge. Thank you for the reply, love the channel and appreciate the real world ballistics and shooting at real hunting distances.
I'm waiting for someone to use Hornady 180 35 rem pointed pistol bullet. I use it in my 357 max and absolutely love it .Moa accuracy exit holes every time. Read some one was putting jacketed bullets thru Lee bullet sizing dies and it was working.
Went to the range yesterday with my CMMG Resolute 300 and Winchester 150 gr first hit 6 inches high second 3/4 iñch from center five shot group about 1 inch as it heated up it spread to about 2 + inches
How do you know this bullet or that bullet will go through bone and stay together through the animal. Have you tested them on animals or animal hide, shoulder bone and flesh? I would like to see the bullets shot through ballistic gel with bone in the front of it.
I used the Winchester deers season 150xp this past deer season in Ohio. Broadside on a deer it’ll drops them in there tracks. But with that rapid expansion that I’m seeing would explain why I wasn’t able to recover my first deer. I shot it at 15 yard with the shot angled through the shoulder. The shot most have unfortunately not pass through the bone into anything vital.
Ok, now I've seen the deer season, how bout loading some solid copper penetrator bullets since it seems to have some issues opening up. Maybe since the cavitator does not need to expand, the hydro static force will do work better
Yeah, my bad on my other comment. It was somebody else, I just get confused sometimes. Not many people testing those pills, can't wait for TSR to do his as his work is second to none. I will say I've never seen that level of destruction with gel blocks before, makes me a firm believer in those screwdriver tipped bullets and no doubt I'll be picking some up.
haha I was just asking you about this ammo! I've gotten some unreal groupings out of it in 6.5cm and so have a bunch of people from what I read online. in my rifle it's out performing match 6.5 ammo at half the price!
@@SocialRegressive let me know how you find it. it was interesting one thing i did notice is that even though it is a 125gr it was noticeably louder and recoiled more than all the other rounds I was trying, even the 140s and 147s. even with double ears I could tell the difference. wonder why that is
Just wondering why no one is using a deer front shoulder bone in front of their gels. That would give a better representation of damage these bullets would be doing as well as penetration
I don't personally know a lot of hunters who take the high shoulder shot through the scapula, in my opinion, this round would be really bad for that ( atleast in the 150 xp loading) i shot a buck this year through the lungs at about 80 yards and did not get an exit with the deer season xp round. It expands super rapidly. I don't think this is a good round for going through bone. The 180gr power point or 170 gr American white tail soft point are probably better penetration performers for a high shoulder shot, the 150 just dumps it's energy too fast to go through a shoulder bone.
I wouldn't be too concerned. Hunters always run the risk of metal in their meat, and they cut around the holes. In this case, the copper would probably end up in the organs, right where you want 'em.
Great video, I chronied the 180s and they were 2520 FPS out of my 16 inch BCA have you ran yours over a chrony . Seems really high since box says 2100ish
I'm considering picking up a 12" upper. Loaded right this has every potential to be better at everything than the 300 blk except long range subsonics... which aren't ideal anyways. And straight cartridges often do better in short barrels than bottle necks do, so I wonder what loading is vest for less barrel? Maybe replicate a good 357 magnum loading but doing from a pistol what takes 18" in a rifle. Or 115 gr fmjs, at their insane speed they should mushroom, no? Or a copper extreme defender, those do exciting things past 2000 fps. The 357 magnum ftx might be good.
Just bought a BCA 16" upper. I'm deciding between the 2 rounds and 160g Power Max by Winchester. Mostly short range shooting I wonder what the expansion would be at 15 - 50 yds for each?
I'm guessing that the 160 would perform roughly the same, just with a wider wound track. The 180 would probably come apart just a little bit, like the edges of the petals shearing off. The 150 would turn the innards into a chunky soup. Absolute hydrostatic shock.
I wonder if your performance has been effected by a 16" barrel plus winter temperatures. I wonder if a 20" barrel in Florida would make all of these expand.
@@SocialRegressive but to be fair I haven't had to make excuses for other rounds. IMHO they didn't engineer a lot of these loads right for 16" barrels.
Hi, I tried the 150 Winchester ammo. Last year a friend dropped an five point buck with that ammo using Ruger American Preditor, the shot hit just high of the rib cage center line but in middle of rib cage front to back. The bullet exited the top of rib cage just on other side of the spin. The exit was angled forward. I recently shot a doe during early antler-less, my shot hit the left shoulder and also exited the top of rib cage just on the other side of the spin, straight up. Not the best shot placement. Both deer were shot at about 150 yards and neither deer went far. Do you think the 180 Winchester ammo would have pasted straight through, I think that would have a yielded a faster kill? Is there another better ammo option. Thank you.
I think the 180 would have a greater likelihood of creating a straight, wide wound channel. The extra mass helped keep it on track in my tests. I'll bet it also deals with bone better.
What is the word on these rounds after deer season? My daughter shot her first buck, actually her first deer ever, with the winchester XP 150 grain. Here's the problem she had. She shot the buck right behind the deer's L shoulder 1 inch above the heart at 100 yrds, give or take 10 yards. The bullet caught a rib on the entrance, hit the L lung and then got the liver, stomach, and intestines. It appears that the bullet ended up in the deer's Left ham, there is a whole in the meet I can stick my finger in up the my hand. I have not recovered the bullet yet because the deer is still hanging. As far as I could tell upon brief examination there was to evidence of it hitting an opposite side rib and bouncing back and towards the rear of the animal. I will look closer upon processing because I don't see how it would be possible without hitting and bouncing back. There was very little blood to follow, I actually watched the deer lay down and he was alive for about 30-40 mins. Very concerned about the deflection and no pass through. I thought it would preform better after watching your tests. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Eric.
Thank you very much for your report. This will give others something to consider. Most hunters seem to be reporting large damage with no exit. Sounds like the 180-grain Super X or 160-grain Power Max Bonded may be the pill for that. The damage to her deer makes me wonder about the angle. Was the animal quartering toward her at the time?
I have harvested 3 deer with the 180 grain soft points. With that said i was not impressed at all. The farthest shot was 60 yards. None of the 3 bullets managed to exit the deer. Leaving little to no blood trail. Yes they did do the job but made it very difficult for tracking
@@SocialRegressive no it was an almost perfect broadside shot, I guess it could have been slight quartering to. But not much. This is her first deer and she is young I was very picky of when letting her shoot. For it to end up in the rear quarter on the same side of the entrance means it would have had to bounce off the other side at some point I just don't know where yet. I will definitely let you know more when I figure it out. Going to process it this weekend. I've heard of 2 other bad deflections with the 150 grain rounds since I've been asking other hunters. Thank you for your response. I don't know how to upload a pic for you. If you know how I could take some pics for you.
I've had no issues with either in my rifle, but I have heard that the 150-grain load suddenly loses a lot of power in cold temperatures. That may explain any cycling issues.
Thanks @@SocialRegressive. I have a CMMG Resolute on the way so I'm going to try a few different cartridges, including Federal Non Typical 180g and some Choice Ammunition 160g Raptor bullets.
I'm going back and forth on this this vs. the 7mm-08. Remington makes a 7mm-08 in the R25, so both are on an ar platform. I only hunt a couple places that exceed 200 yards, and most are only 50-100 yards. Platform aside, what do you think is the better bullet for
That's actually an interesting comparison. Both should deliver the knockout blow that you're after. I would favor the 7mm-08 for hunting because of its considerably higher energy and flatter trajectory, but you'll have a lighter, more portable package with 350 Legend, especially if you intend to use it as a backup home defense weapon. The reloading difficulty will be roughly the same for both.
I cite my 16 inch barrel AR in at 2 1/2 in high and 100 they say That's supposed to put it that on at 1:50 in about 3 in low at 200. Which I've already made up my mind with my short barrel I'm going to try to keep all my shots within 150. I think if you have a 20-in or longer barrel it's definitely a 200+ yard gun.
There's only one real way to find out, but my limited testing has shown that it should be up to the task. The 180s and 160s cut a wide swath and just don't want to stop.
@@SocialRegressive unfortunately not, my particular gun fell victim to savages dip in QC, and is having the same feeding issues as has been commonly reported with the 110 series chambered for this round unfortunately. Savage customer service is sending me a different mag since my gun is still under warranty, i hope to be able to try it out this year to see if i experience the same favorable results people seem to be having with the XPs. My rifle shoots great when it chooses to feed properly.
@@SocialRegressive 2022 season update. Dropped a nice buck with this round. The explosive damage inside was insane. What is weird though, no exit hole.
Yeah, I had an axis II that wouldn’t feed anything other than Winchester 180 grn soft point. Deer season XP seemed to stick in the edge of the rifling, necessitating hammering the bolt open with my palm.
Zero. A .223 mag has ribs that interfere with the 350 cases. Maybe there's one out there that works, but I doubt it. For now we need special mags that can hold a max of 20.
I use 9mm hollow points to reload with 24.4 lil gunpowder 147grain jacketed hollow points shooting 3/4 group at 100yrds consistently. Great expansion good penetration
i had issues with the 150 deer xp bullets with my cmmg resolute 300. every other round would misfeed. i have BCM h buffer coming. ive been told that will solve my problem.
I had the same problem today in my IWI with a BCA 350 upper. The 150 would fail to feed every time. The 145 fmj fed great tho. Any thing you find would greatly help.
2" group at 100 yds is not very good. 200 yds would be out of the question. My A-bolt 12 ga shoots a 1" group at 100 yds in comparison with Hornady ammo
My savage 110 shoots 1moa or better at 100 yards with the 150 gr deer season and the hornday american white tail stuff. Hates the 180 gr power points though
It's a serious shame my gun shoots the XP's so poorly... Going to be using the Hornady 165 grain FTX rounds as I'm getting about MOA with those rounds.
Winchester ammo is total garbage. 25% of my last box of 20 failed to fire OR was not safe to shoot due to the bullet not being seated in the brass properly ( very loose). Customer Service wanted me to do ALL of the work to show them THIER poor workmanship! Avoid Winchester ammo!
What about 350 legend gell test at 50 yards to see how well the rounds breakup. So far what I've see I think the 150 grain would do better at the shorter range. Thanks Now here's what I do: I educate people on how if they believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life! People are like computers; we all have a default mode. It is that we are all sinners, headed toward hell. GOD's Word declares, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God....Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
Compare body armor penetration of 350 Legend and 308 Winchester. The politicians want Americans to have less powerful rifles against armored stormtroopers. Lower velocity and wider caliber both bad for military or militia uses.
This is the info needed. Short range gel tests are ok but >100 yard gel tests are the real information needed. Thank you
Awesome and thanks for investing so much time and effort in to this caliber. I can’t wait to see some all copper loads.
I'm about to test some Lehigh bullets. Can't wait to see what they do.
Late to the party here, but I have some interesting experience to share with the Winchester Super-X 180 grain 350L.
I took a black bear this season using a 24" bolt action. First shot was 125 yards in the neck. It ran up the hill/mountain.
Second shot 60 yards again to the neck. Still didn't go down.
Third shot to the head dropped it.
I would not use these for anything except deer. I recovered the two bullets in the neck, both failed miserably. Came apart and didn't do any noticeable damage to the spine where they both hit. The jackets completely separated from the core. The box says deer/hog/bear but I checked the Winchester website and they no longer say bear for this ammo.
Daughter used this rifle and the same ammo at 60 yards on a small white tail the other day, dead right there. hit the shoulder and exited the other side.
Friend shot a bigger white tail with it the same afternoon, double lung at 40 yards. Ran maybe 20 yards and dropped. Nice big exit wound.
I used the Winchester Deer Season XP in 308 on a large white tail doe two days ago. Hit it in the neck at 100 yards and it didn't know what hit it. Dead right there. Destroyed the spine.
Take this information for what it is I guess.
Many thanks for sharing your story. It's good to acknowledge the limitations. If I ever get a chance to hunt black bear, I'll bring something heavier.
@SocialRegressive if you were to go on a black bear hunt, would you bring a full sized cartridge like a 308/6.5 creedmoore. or would you use a langer intermediate bullet like a 450 bushmaster?
I put a 150 Gr XP round through a 160 lb whitetail @ 150 yds. He sit down right there not even a twitch. The bullet went through and left blood 5-6 ft behind him in the bushes. This round is great for deer ive got a feeling it will be my go to gun next year.
Dustin McCain, where was your shot placement on the deer & what did the internal damage look like? Thanks!
Right on edge of shoulder. Massive damage. Lots of jelly, heart and lungs
Pass thru?
@@rfly81 yes.
@@preacherbiggin i had the same result as the above comment. Blew the lungs apart and dropped the deer dead in his tracks. Zero tracking required
The 150 seems to be the best all around performer so far.
It's pretty good. Dropped a buck dead at about 80 yards with it this year. The lungs looked like a grenade went off. I have never seen so much blood and chunks of organs in a deer before. Weird thing is though, it stopped in the organs, there was no exit hole
I have been using the 180 Super X for a couple years now and I haven’t had any problems with it and have even dropped some bucks. The farthest I have had a deer run is only about 80 yards and below
I just got me a CVA Cascade 350 legend and I’m loving the Winchester Xp Deer Season 150 grain it shoots very consistent and very accurate
It's been the most accurate factory load for me, too.
How do you like it? I'm trying to decide on a cascade in 350 legend or 450 bushmaster.
@@matthewwagner4042 I love mine I shot it 6 times to sight it in and shot once toward the end of deer season and got me one I like it BC of the knockdown power and my wife can shoot it BC it does not have any recoil
@@Ripper0518 Thanks.
I also have the CVA scout single shot. I have only used the 150 deer season XP. And they are extremely accurate. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on deer.
Lord that 180 Winchester and Hornaday hit hard. Deer season was impressive at 100yds.
Oldest took her first buck ( 11 point ) with the Winchester XP at 45-55 yards this weekend. Shot was perfect broadside heart/double lung. Buck made it maybe 70-80 yards. A third of the heart laid over like a fish fillet. She was ecstatic, I couldn't be happier for her and for the performance on game with this 350L load.
Crazy they can make it that far with a shredded heart...nervous or structural damage is the only way they ever drop
Not the only way they drop, but the most likely way thay will drop. 👍@kuiperdasniper
After watching your videos on federal and Winchester 350 legend, there is no doubt in my military mind that the Winchester outperforms the federal. I built a 350 ar with 20” faxon barrel which groups the 180 Winchester better than the 150. I also had some feeding issues with the 150xp
The 180 is my overall favorite. Devastation, penetration, accuracy... it has it all.
I also had feeding problems with my 150 grain XP I just switched to the 180s in it feeds great.
Nice lighting on the gel block. That's appreciated.
Thanks, I'm glad I'm hunting with the 180 gr power point. I don't want to track and then drag that deer back out. It's the cartridge for me. I'll leave the 145 gr fmj for plinking.
I use the 150s, I've not had to track a deer yet. The one i shot last year was taken off his feet and never got back up
3:41 Pull my finger...
No seriously pull it! It's broken and needs to be reset!
Hit a whitetail with the 180 power points, and it did a wonderful job. Haven’t tried the deer season rounds yet
They're awesome! They go off like a bomb. My only complaint is i haven't gotten an exit wound. But i haven't needed one. Every deer i have shot with the deer season round has died in their tracks
@@jonquirk9582 I will say I recently shot another whitetail buck since I first commented. And I decided to shoot this deer on the neck since I wanted to save as much meat. The 180 grain PowerPoint did not exit the neck. It made practically a 90 degree turn and stopped on the front of the shoulder
OUTSTANDING REVIEW ! I have a 20" .350 Legend Bear Creek AR-15, and this is the ammo I will use on HOGs and Deer my .350 has a thermal scope for Hog Hunting.
Someday I'll need to buy a thermal scope, too. It works so much better on hogs than night vision does.
I recommend the Pulsar Talion XQ 38 Thermal MSRP $2,500.00 or the ATN LT 160 LTV 3X9 Thermal under $1000.00 @@SocialRegressive
I use both the 150xp and 180SP both are factory load. Boy would I like the 150xp hand loaded with lil gun to get more velocity. The last I seen Winchester only had the 180sp bullets available
The results of the XP load. Leads me to think a good hollow point may do well in this caliber. Have seen ( from you and others ) that there are quite a few factory loads that are not expanding very well.
The Winchester power max bonded hollow points are BEASTS. I've posted a test.
@@SocialRegressive You know I think I watched that one. Thank you for all you do.
@@SocialRegressive Scored a box of the 150gr tipped Winchester's and two boxes of the 145gr target loads.
When I mentioned the pistol bullet idea. I was thinking of the Hornady HAP which aren't real meant to expand at pistol velocities. Think I may try them when I start working up a load.
You need to try the Hornady FTX hunting round!!!!!
165 gr. component bullets are estimated to be in-stock at Midway on 3-7-20.
I wanna see if that 165 ftx will expand
@@racerboy4 Me, too. It would be nice to know before ordering any.
@@racerboy4 pretty much no doubt it'll expand, the whole hp part is nothing but crimped jacket, no lead. (at least on the 140gr.) I think the question is how much and will the jacket stay on the core.
Yeah I want to see it in gel too... They shoot excellent in my gun I can tell you that. I'm getting around MOA maybe better than MOA with the FTX's. Unfortunately I get inconsistent results with the 150gr Winchesters.
I thought the 350 legend to be a great deer cartiage but max size 180 grain not taking advantage of the strait bore i worked up Hornaday ftx 200 grain loads just resized some 358 dia thru a sizing die took it down to .357 they shoot great hit hard what more can you ask for great for women and young hunters
The 350 Legend has me completely intrigued for use as a hog thumper cartridge here in Texas. That 180 grainer didn't seem to have the velocity needed for max expansion, but would certainly hit hard with plenty of penetration. I get a good number of shots on hogs at 50 yards and under and I bet at closer range the 180 would be a real expanding brute on hogs. I have the big question for you, do you think the 350 Legend will make it in the flooded market of AR cartridges or will it fall by the wayside like others before it? I really wanted .25-45 Sharps and .277 Wolverine to catch on in popularity, sadly they did not, so I didn't build for them. I would appreciate your thoughts on its future in the market.
I can never account for what the masses will do, but to me it stands out as so unique and purposeful that I think it won't be just another "me too" cartridge. Its longevity and market position will certainly be bolstered by straight-wall-only states like Ohio.
@@SocialRegressive I have the same feeling about the cartridge. Thank you for the reply, love the channel and appreciate the real world ballistics and shooting at real hunting distances.
I'm waiting for someone to use Hornady 180 35 rem pointed pistol bullet. I use it in my 357 max and absolutely love it .Moa accuracy exit holes every time. Read some one was putting jacketed bullets thru Lee bullet sizing dies and it was working.
Really love the work u do. Could u test the 180 grain federal fusion...
prinary arms has a good price on the winchester 180gr sp just got some they perform well for me
Went to the range yesterday with my CMMG Resolute 300 and Winchester 150 gr first hit 6 inches high second 3/4 iñch from center five shot group about 1 inch as it heated up it spread to about 2 + inches
Was a clean barrel? You'll see some initial flyers from that. 6 inches a bit much, though!
So you don't like the federal non
typical 180 sp for deer?
I think I would prefer it for hogs or black bear since it never expanded for me in either 10% or 20% gel.
How do you know this bullet or that bullet will go through bone and stay together through the animal. Have you tested them on animals or animal hide, shoulder bone and flesh?
I would like to see the bullets shot through ballistic gel with bone in the front of it.
Thanks for the video!
What is your research telling you about using a 350L for hunting black bears?
Great test. Thanks for sharing.
hey man, would you be willing to test the .223 deer season xp?
How much drop with the 180gr. from 100 yds and 200tds. ??
I used the Winchester deers season 150xp this past deer season in Ohio. Broadside on a deer it’ll drops them in there tracks. But with that rapid expansion that I’m seeing would explain why I wasn’t able to recover my first deer. I shot it at 15 yard with the shot angled through the shoulder. The shot most have unfortunately not pass through the bone into anything vital.
That makes sense. At that close range, I'll bet the bullet blew into tiny chunks.
appreciate the info, great job !
Ok, now I've seen the deer season, how bout loading some solid copper penetrator bullets since it seems to have some issues opening up. Maybe since the cavitator does not need to expand, the hydro static force will do work better
I know I watched a vid earlier where he did this, first time I'd seen gel ripped apart like that.
I have a few boxes of Lehigh on my bench right now waiting for load-up.
Yeah, my bad on my other comment. It was somebody else, I just get confused sometimes. Not many people testing those pills, can't wait for TSR to do his as his work is second to none. I will say I've never seen that level of destruction with gel blocks before, makes me a firm believer in those screwdriver tipped bullets and no doubt I'll be picking some up.
Looks like a deer standing over your right ear at first of video in the field .must be a pet . Anyways looks like you have the proper dose for hogs.
The deer at Red Castle know they're safe. I once shot a session of 6.5 Creedmoor over the backs of 21 grazing whitetails. So tempting....
Never noticed around giving off a flame in the gel.
Do we want tumbling? I don't see that often in a hog/deer round?
It is the phenomenon of sono luminescence. It is an interesting and not fully understood effect.
Did you get a velocity reading for the 180 grain Winchester factory ammo?
haha I was just asking you about this ammo! I've gotten some unreal groupings out of it in 6.5cm and so have a bunch of people from what I read online. in my rifle it's out performing match 6.5 ammo at half the price!
Now I've gotta try their 6.5. Thanks!
@@SocialRegressive let me know how you find it. it was interesting one thing i did notice is that even though it is a 125gr it was noticeably louder and recoiled more than all the other rounds I was trying, even the 140s and 147s. even with double ears I could tell the difference. wonder why that is
Just wondering why no one is using a deer front shoulder bone in front of their gels. That would give a better representation of damage these bullets would be doing as well as penetration
I don't personally know a lot of hunters who take the high shoulder shot through the scapula, in my opinion, this round would be really bad for that ( atleast in the 150 xp loading) i shot a buck this year through the lungs at about 80 yards and did not get an exit with the deer season xp round. It expands super rapidly. I don't think this is a good round for going through bone. The 180gr power point or 170 gr American white tail soft point are probably better penetration performers for a high shoulder shot, the 150 just dumps it's energy too fast to go through a shoulder bone.
If you were planning on eating the animal would you want those pedals and copper spreading?
...or would it be a non issue?
I wouldn't be too concerned. Hunters always run the risk of metal in their meat, and they cut around the holes. In this case, the copper would probably end up in the organs, right where you want 'em.
That would have been .518 not .513 buddy. Great review. 👍
For kicks you should compare vietnam war style light weight 5.56 fmj ammo. Both with fast and slow rifle twist
Great video, I chronied the 180s and they were 2520 FPS out of my 16 inch BCA have you ran yours over a chrony . Seems really high since box says 2100ish
Holy cats, that's fast. I tested mine, but I can't remember.
@@SocialRegressive I wish I could explain it seems way to high but no pressure signs
What's the spark from when it hits the gel medium?
From what I hear, it's the compression detonation of the vaporized gel, which is oil-based.
I'm considering picking up a 12" upper. Loaded right this has every potential to be better at everything than the 300 blk except long range subsonics... which aren't ideal anyways.
And straight cartridges often do better in short barrels than bottle necks do, so I wonder what loading is vest for less barrel?
Maybe replicate a good 357 magnum loading but doing from a pistol what takes 18" in a rifle. Or 115 gr fmjs, at their insane speed they should mushroom, no? Or a copper extreme defender, those do exciting things past 2000 fps.
The 357 magnum ftx might be good.
Just bought a BCA 16" upper. I'm deciding between the 2 rounds and 160g Power Max by Winchester. Mostly short range shooting I wonder what the expansion would be at 15 - 50 yds for each?
I'm guessing that the 160 would perform roughly the same, just with a wider wound track. The 180 would probably come apart just a little bit, like the edges of the petals shearing off. The 150 would turn the innards into a chunky soup. Absolute hydrostatic shock.
I wonder if your performance has been effected by a 16" barrel plus winter temperatures.
I wonder if a 20" barrel in Florida would make all of these expand.
It's possible. I've tried to keep my temps above 55 degrees, but a solid 80 degrees might have an effect.
@@SocialRegressive but to be fair I haven't had to make excuses for other rounds. IMHO they didn't engineer a lot of these loads right for 16" barrels.
Hi, I tried the 150 Winchester ammo. Last year a friend dropped an five point buck with that ammo using Ruger American Preditor, the shot hit just high of the rib cage center line but in middle of rib cage front to back. The bullet exited the top of rib cage just on other side of the spin. The exit was angled forward. I recently shot a doe during early antler-less, my shot hit the left shoulder and also exited the top of rib cage just on the other side of the spin, straight up. Not the best shot placement. Both deer were shot at about 150 yards and neither deer went far. Do you think the 180 Winchester ammo would have pasted straight through, I think that would have a yielded a faster kill? Is there another better ammo option. Thank you.
I think the 180 would have a greater likelihood of creating a straight, wide wound channel. The extra mass helped keep it on track in my tests. I'll bet it also deals with bone better.
@@SocialRegressive Thank you!
What is the word on these rounds after deer season? My daughter shot her first buck, actually her first deer ever, with the winchester XP 150 grain. Here's the problem she had. She shot the buck right behind the deer's L shoulder 1 inch above the heart at 100 yrds, give or take 10 yards. The bullet caught a rib on the entrance, hit the L lung and then got the liver, stomach, and intestines. It appears that the bullet ended up in the deer's Left ham, there is a whole in the meet I can stick my finger in up the my hand. I have not recovered the bullet yet because the deer is still hanging. As far as I could tell upon brief examination there was to evidence of it hitting an opposite side rib and bouncing back and towards the rear of the animal. I will look closer upon processing because I don't see how it would be possible without hitting and bouncing back. There was very little blood to follow, I actually watched the deer lay down and he was alive for about 30-40 mins. Very concerned about the deflection and no pass through. I thought it would preform better after watching your tests. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Eric.
Thank you very much for your report. This will give others something to consider. Most hunters seem to be reporting large damage with no exit. Sounds like the 180-grain Super X or 160-grain Power Max Bonded may be the pill for that. The damage to her deer makes me wonder about the angle. Was the animal quartering toward her at the time?
I have harvested 3 deer with the 180 grain soft points. With that said i was not impressed at all. The farthest shot was 60 yards. None of the 3 bullets managed to exit the deer. Leaving little to no blood trail. Yes they did do the job but made it very difficult for tracking
@@SocialRegressive no it was an almost perfect broadside shot, I guess it could have been slight quartering to. But not much. This is her first deer and she is young I was very picky of when letting her shoot. For it to end up in the rear quarter on the same side of the entrance means it would have had to bounce off the other side at some point I just don't know where yet. I will definitely let you know more when I figure it out. Going to process it this weekend. I've heard of 2 other bad deflections with the 150 grain rounds since I've been asking other hunters. Thank you for your response. I don't know how to upload a pic for you. If you know how I could take some pics for you.
@@camotruck1980 I believe it. I would have had a very hard time tracking if I would not have watched him lay down.
@ericlongoria2788 something similar happened to me in 2022. Bullet didn't exit the ribs on the offside. I never did find the bullet in the gut pile
Awesome!!
Apologies if this has been covered already. I’ve heard 180g bullets cycle better than 150g in AR rifles. Is there any truth to this?
I've had no issues with either in my rifle, but I have heard that the 150-grain load suddenly loses a lot of power in cold temperatures. That may explain any cycling issues.
Thanks @@SocialRegressive. I have a CMMG Resolute on the way so I'm going to try a few different cartridges, including Federal Non Typical 180g and some Choice Ammunition 160g Raptor bullets.
It needs gold dot 147gr hollow points. It WILL hold together. Just try loading it
Any load data? Preferred load? Thanks!
I'm going back and forth on this this vs. the 7mm-08. Remington makes a 7mm-08 in the R25, so both are on an ar platform. I only hunt a couple places that exceed 200 yards, and most are only 50-100 yards. Platform aside, what do you think is the better bullet for
That's actually an interesting comparison. Both should deliver the knockout blow that you're after. I would favor the 7mm-08 for hunting because of its considerably higher energy and flatter trajectory, but you'll have a lighter, more portable package with 350 Legend, especially if you intend to use it as a backup home defense weapon. The reloading difficulty will be roughly the same for both.
7mm-08 all the way
What distance should I zero my 350 at? Curious what others have done.
I zero mine at 150, leaving crosshairs ~2” low @100 and ~4” high @200
Winchester advises that you zero at 150.
I cite my 16 inch barrel AR in at 2 1/2 in high and 100 they say That's supposed to put it that on at 1:50 in about 3 in low at 200. Which I've already made up my mind with my short barrel I'm going to try to keep all my shots within 150. I think if you have a 20-in or longer barrel it's definitely a 200+ yard gun.
I heard the comment about a bear round for the 180’s, do you think either of these rounds is lethal enough for bear and or something like elk?
There's only one real way to find out, but my limited testing has shown that it should be up to the task. The 180s and 160s cut a wide swath and just don't want to stop.
The Social Regressive thanks, and thanks for all the 350 legend content you have posted! Looking forward to using mine this deer season!
I’m curious what the best round is or if 350 is good enough for bears also. Not much information on the internet about it either.
load it for 150 or 180 gr xtp it put big holes in deer
With no exit holes☹️
I suspect you're right. We'll find out soon. I have some 147s and 158s ready to load now.
My savage 110 wouldn't print the 180grain powerpoints worth a crap, it's a tac driver at 100 yards with the 150gr deer season rounds though
Sometimes that's the most important factor. Taken any deer with it yet?
@@SocialRegressive unfortunately not, my particular gun fell victim to savages dip in QC, and is having the same feeding issues as has been commonly reported with the 110 series chambered for this round unfortunately. Savage customer service is sending me a different mag since my gun is still under warranty, i hope to be able to try it out this year to see if i experience the same favorable results people seem to be having with the XPs. My rifle shoots great when it chooses to feed properly.
@@jonquirk9582 That sucks, man. I hope they get it squared away.
@@SocialRegressive 2022 season update. Dropped a nice buck with this round. The explosive damage inside was insane. What is weird though, no exit hole.
Yeah, I had an axis II that wouldn’t feed anything other than Winchester 180 grn soft point. Deer season XP seemed to stick in the edge of the rifling, necessitating hammering the bolt open with my palm.
What kind of bullet drop are you seeing @200?
About 1.7 Mils with a 100- yard zero.
Is there unburnt gunpowder on the bullet as it enters the gel? What is burning inside the gel?
The air in the wound channel is getting hyper compressed creating a flash explosion I think
.355 180 gr hard cast gas check I bet it do wonders
What muzzle device are you using?
How many 350s can you get in a 30 round mag??
Zero. A .223 mag has ribs that interfere with the 350 cases. Maybe there's one out there that works, but I doubt it. For now we need special mags that can hold a max of 20.
About 3 in a 30rd mag
I wish these 150grainers were avail for us reloaders!!😵😡
I use 9mm hollow points to reload with 24.4 lil gunpowder 147grain jacketed hollow points shooting 3/4 group at 100yrds consistently. Great expansion good penetration
Winchester has finally started releasing their bullets on the market. Hopefully they'll get these out there soon.
@@SocialRegressive looking forward to experimenting with them
i had issues with the 150 deer xp bullets with my cmmg resolute 300. every other round would misfeed. i have BCM h buffer coming. ive been told that will solve my problem.
I had the same problem today in my IWI with a BCA 350 upper. The 150 would fail to feed every time. The 145 fmj fed great tho. Any thing you find would greatly help.
That thing looks like it kicks like a 22 mag.
Harder than a 22 mag for sure. It's not bad though. Far less recoil than my 20gauge slug gun
👍
2" group at 100 yds is not very good. 200 yds would be out of the question. My A-bolt 12 ga shoots a 1" group at 100 yds in comparison with Hornady ammo
My savage 110 shoots 1moa or better at 100 yards with the 150 gr deer season and the hornday american white tail stuff. Hates the 180 gr power points though
Shot 15 rounds
Need fresh blocks between shots...
It's a serious shame my gun shoots the XP's so poorly...
Going to be using the Hornady 165 grain FTX rounds as I'm getting about MOA with those rounds.
What length barrel?
@@SocialRegressive
18" Great Lakes Firearms upper.
What caliber is this exactly?
.355" or .357" bullets will work. Bore is .355".
.355...
.355 180gr HCGC would do wonders
Winchester ammo is total garbage. 25% of my last box of 20 failed to fire OR was not safe to shoot due to the bullet not being seated in the brass properly ( very loose). Customer Service wanted me to do ALL of the work to show them THIER poor workmanship! Avoid Winchester ammo!
Which load was that?
@@SocialRegressive 35 whelen 200 grain power point
Why not use NEWLY COOKED Ballistic Gel Blocks... instead of USED already? I'm not really sure which did which. Poorly done.
Not my kind of hunting rifle or caliber.
What about 350 legend gell test at 50 yards to see how well the rounds breakup. So far what I've see I think the 150 grain would do better at the shorter range. Thanks
Now here's what I do:
I educate people on how if they believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life! People are like computers; we all have a default mode. It is that we are all sinners, headed toward hell.
GOD's Word declares, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God....Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
Crappy cartridge created by politicians that don't want you to use a much better 270, 308 or 30-06.
Compare body armor penetration of 350 Legend and 308 Winchester. The politicians want Americans to have less powerful rifles against armored stormtroopers. Lower velocity and wider caliber both bad for military or militia uses.
This was made for deer hunting dude. From the ground up it was made for deer hunting in states like ohio and iowa.