What Is The Best Belay Device For Beginners? | EpicTV Climbing Daily, Ep. 571
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2015
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When you're just starting out climbing, choosing your first belay device can be a tricky task but it's also an extremely important one as learning good belay technique from the outset will help to keep you and your partners safe further down the line. With auto-locking belay devices such as the Grigri now more common than ever, it is tempting to use one of these early on in the belief that it will help eliminate some of the risk as you perfect your belay technique. However, we'd recommend starting out with a simple friction plate design instead as this will not only help you to develop perfect belay technique, but will be applicable no matter what type of climbing you progress into. With that in mind, we've lined up three great options: the Black Diamond ATC Sport belay device, the Petzl Verso belay device and the Black Diamond ATC XP belay device. Check out the video to find out which was our pick for best of the bunch.
What Is The Best Belay Device For Beginners? | EpicTV Climbing Daily, Ep. 571
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That second of adds that last 2 seconds is outstanding
Good video! My favorite non-auto locking belay gadget is the Omega Pacific SBG2 (solid stem). There's no retainer cable, it's solid aluminum. A lot of climbers hate it, but it's my favorite, and I've been using mine flawlessly for more than 15 years. Just this guy's two cents worth, people. Always keep both hands on both sides of the rope and never take your eyes off of your climber!
Tube´s are obsolete. Now I would recommend Smarts. They are light, transparent in regards to their "mechanics", affordable semi-automats that block a fall even if you fuck up your hand positions. Ther only slight downside is that they let slip the rope a tiny bit whenever you "close".
I would still recommend a tube. Learning proper technique without the crutch of assisted braking is important early on when you can have an instructor tailing for you.
@@joestevenson5568 Yeah just like people are still buying new cars without airbags and ABS etc, because it is better to learn without those safety measures... Of course it isn't, if you never have to use tubers anymore you also don't have to learn how to handle them. Compared to assisted devices they are just a lot more dangerous, it's why they are basically banned in my gym here. They teach with the Smart, ATC Pilot, and GriGri and that's enough for most people. The Smart nowadays even comes with double rope options.
Well made video. Thanks!
Atc xp ' and atc pilot , both are nice and easy , for young to elder climbers!
By now, there is a good variety of auto-locking belay devices and auto-tubers, which provide much more safety, espacially for beginners, who are not suffieciently experienced in holding falls. I would not recommend anybody using tubers anymore.
+Hendrik Raabe what the fuck is an auto-tuber?
+Doug Foster An auto-tuber supplies much more safety by blocking the rope, while using the same mechanics as a tuber or atc. Examples for that are the Salewa Ergo, CT Click Up, Mammut Smart, Edelrid Megajul, etc... They give you a safety reserve in case of mistakes. Of course you still have to know how to properly use them, but switching is not too difficult, due to the similarity to the traditional tuber/atc.
Safety is crucial in climbing, especially for beginners, so the change to these devices is unavoidable.
Ye, safety is crucial, so proper training is most important.
Anybody? There's plenty of instances where tube-style belay devices are the best one to use.
Just got hold of a Edelrid Jul2 with their Bruce FG biner - loving them. Interestingly, I read an article from them saying they will no longer produce non assisted braking belay devices.
which video edits do you guys use? te colors are great
As and older person who learned how to belay without any of this gear all I can say it makes things very easy. I am not sure which is the best as my belaying these days is for my teenage daughter in a climbing gym. I am going to get back into climbing and the amount of new gear is very impressive. I delayed many of feet without any device and never had an issue. That said I am all about safety and this gear sure helps that.
You used the knot to belay?
@@AlessioSangalli No it was called a friction belay. The rope from the climber ran from my left side around my waist and you would break or hold the climber with the friction created and break with your right hand. Oh leader falls your waist would get rope burns. Yeah it was not the best but what we had. There was some earlier devices but I learned through the AMC and this is what they taught. A few years later we started using a mechanical device called a figure eight. It worked well but it was not as good as todays gear for sure. Things have certainly improved.
@@mtadams2009 what i was referring to, i looked it up and it's called munter hitch in US
@@AlessioSangalli No that is not what we used. Take care
@@AlessioSangalliI think he is talking about body belay
I'd rather choose the Mammut Smart for beginning to belay. But that's kind of a personal prefference thing.
We teach with versos and DMM bugs - all depends on partnering
Dear EpicTV. Gri-Gris are not "auto-locking" devices. ABD stands for assisted braking device.
Nick Chertavian You do realize that's primarily legal jargon? IOW, belayers can't just fall asleep and expect to retain the full safety of the climber they're belaying. In practical terms, auto-locking belays exist. In practice, they don't because belaying is a practice that requires 100% focus, hence the hesitancy (by the legal department) to refer to these devices as "auto."
Absolutely not true. Witnesed Grigri unlocking unintentionally. There is number of documented accidents. Auto - locking device will lock and require intentional operation to unlock! Thats the practical (and legal as well) difference. Grigri is assistet braking device not because of the legal requirements. It is in practice as well.
That’s weird, mine seems to automatically lock every time I belay someone and they weight the rope. Is there something the matter with yours?
tdegler there’s not a single case documented of a grigri “unintentionally unlocking”. I’ve searched and could find nothing. If you make a claim like that, you’d better back it up.
@@semmtexx it does slip through on a thinner or old ropes. 'Unlocking' is probably not the right term here.
Joining the ATC vs ABD debate
I teach belay to kids and adults, only teaching with the traditional ATC. There is a level of instinct developed when using the ATC that will overall make a smarter belayer. It also forces the belayer to understand what is going on - how forces work, how weight feels, how to control the rope. Relying on the GriGri alone breeds complacency and bad habits. Plus, in an emergency situation, I would like to know that my partner has some level of skill. I wouldn't trust a GriGri belayer to manuever an emergency Munter hitch or tie off a Munter-Mule.
I would not let a crappy belayer use a GriGri until they mastered the ATC. That's just lazy.
That said, as a smaller individual, there are time where using my ATC XP is simply not practical or the safest option when I have a GriGri hanging from my gear loop. But, if I didn't have the GriGri, I know I could belay the heavier person with the ATC b/c I learned on the ATC, developed instinct by using my ATC, and have had to adapt my technique for heavier partners before I got my GriGri.
If I was teaching my students to be great belayer you're totally right. I would go with an atc do to it's ease of use and understandability. But if I grabbed my beginner friend to climb for the day and needed a belay myself, I would always give them an abd
Weird cause I am a new climber…but wasn’t the belayer removing his break hand during the demo? A real no no.
lol, that's what I saw. I've climbed fro all of 30 minutes during my intro class two days ago.
I have never seen such a simple belay device, good for beginners
Was this filmed in BLOC Bristol
What about the Mamut Smart? Seems perfect for beginners...
That´s right.
This is an assisted braking device. There is a debate about whether assisting braking is good or bad for beginners. The creator of this video is working under the philosophy that learning to belay without assisted braking is more important for beginners, rather than getting into the habit of relying on the assisted braking to back up their belaying.
Cool ad, bro.
remember when 'black death' had a tuber with a bare 7x7 cable? and a small perlon? I cant believe i see climbers rapping with these! I have found the old tried and true sticht belay plate with a spring to be the best BEGINNER tool. Especially when im running it out and DO NOT want the rope to come tight and pull me off. Its almost FOOL proof.
In my day, the "Stichplate" was King, LOL
And it still works!
I want to know the prices of all things which are used in climbing so please make a video about international prices of every thing used in climbing.....
Are figure 8 belay devices good?
Figure 8's are more commonly used for rappelling. They can be used in a variety of ways and can work for belaying, but from my experience they are a little more difficult to use and I wouldn't suggest them for starting out--more of a good-to-know skill just in case some day. The ATC's that they show here are straight forward in their setup and use and offer more stopping power than a figure 8.
Guy looks and talks like he's Harry potter's older goofier brother!😂🤣
Look at the Petzl specs on the GriGri2, assisted braking, not auto locking!!! I also refuse to climb with anyone using a tube belay device, I have been dropped too many times. Also funny that when abseiling with a tube style belay device, one is required to have a prussik backup self belay, yet when belaying a climbing it's never mentioned? Does this mean it's ok to drop someone else, but not yourself???
Chris Curtis You should backup any device when rappeling ABD or not. As for not backing up the belay with it, think of the mechanics of it, if you are feeding slack to somebody clipping a draw it would just be in the way and probably continuously sucked in to the device making it useless. For taking in slack it's just getting pushed further down. To prevent dropping someone when belaying stopper knots are tied at the end of the belay side, or tied to the seconds harness for when it is their turn to go up.
The belayer in the video will not be belaying me.
I recommend the XP, it'll take care of your needs as a novice, gym climber and sport cragger. Move up to assisted devices after you've learned to belay on the most simply style of device out there.
There is not a single reason why you should take the XP over an auto-tube device. They essentially handle in the same way, but auto tubers are way more safe, especially for beginners and they still retain the need to learn to control the rope properly.
Messiahs yeah except for the crazy price difference lol
Can not disagree stronger! Picking a tube over a Grigri or Smart, ... is like picking a car from 1970 over a modern in pure safety aspects.
Yes but as a climber newer to belaying, learning the basics on something like a ATC will help you learn the basics. Plus, driving is much more dangerous then climbing anyway,
@@robertrider9845 but you can also 'learn the basics' on a device with assisted braking, given that (minus some subtleties) the device you use shouldn't make any difference to proper belaying technique.
This should just be titled: the best belay devices. Get the ATC and then climb for 35 years. That's what I've done.
Why are you taking your brake hand off the rope?
He isn't
He is. Hand over hand
horrible carabiner used with the petzl red one
you are so neat and colourfull
69 comment
yeah the best belay device you recommended I watched someone get dropped on it. So safe.
+Anthony Waller people also get dropped with gri gri's. i agree that atc's aren't as good as an assisted device, but just because you saw someone get dropped doesn't automatically make the device horrible. i go with the smart for belaying and an atc with an autoblock for rappelling
+Doug Foster I've seen many dangerous mistakes with the GriGri, people loading it backwards, break hand off, etc. that being said i use a GriGri almost exclusively for belaying and rapping personally, but i always teach newbies on a tube. its better to learn to belay properly.
They are all the same
I disagree with this completely - I think beginners should always start with the grigri and then move onto something such as the reverso when they get comfortable and begin to understand the mechanics of the grigri.
why start them with a device that breeds complacency? The ATC/Reverso helps develop instincts which the GriGri does not. Let the person get pinched in their ATC a couple times, set aside time to backup belay and teach properly. I teach a 2hr class on top rope belay. They are not certified by the end but damn good belayers. I teach kids too --- after a couple days of belaying, they are as good as me.
The dude in the video isn't even belaying correctly, you never should let go of your brake hand even if your other hand is on the rope hahahahaha
Why? So long as ONE hand is on the dead rope you're fine. Your non-dominant hand isn't THAT much weaker.