Fillmore 25 vs Deluxe Reverb Tonemaster -
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- In this episode I compare the Mesa Boogie Fillmore 25 with 6v6 tubes with the Fender Deluxe Reverb Tone Master, a transistor digital amp.
I happened to buy the Tone Master, crazy enough!!
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#fillmore #tonemaster #deluxereverb #fender #mesaboogie
The Boogie sounds like it has just the right amount of bite + sweetness to the tone. Love that Fillmore 25...such a tasty amp
It’s a great amp indeed
Better speaker in the boogie
4real mon
I am a Mesa/Boogie Fillmore 50 user and believer. I can’t put it down is perfect. 25/50 watt, reverb, effect loop and the cherry on the top two identical switchable channels. Awesomeness.
Mesa Boogie is my favorite builder
Deluxe Reverb Tonemasters are a rare example where solid state modelling amps get it 100% right. It mimicked the cleans and reverb/tremolo of the original perfectly. Breakup is still a tiny bit different though, but for something so light, it’s a small sacrifice..
Yes it is!
"Breakup is still a tiny bit different though"
So.... not 100%? :D
I cant help but wonder if any slight differences in breakup are due to the neo mag speaker? If you look on Jensentone.com, you can listen to the differences between the ceramic and neodymium counterparts speakers and hear the difference the magnet makes- even though the frequency response charts look nearly identical. Like the Raptor vs the Tornado 100, the c12k vs the n12k will reveal these nuance differences... not that they are bad or good, just different.... fascinating!!!
Everything makes a difference. I happen to like how this amp sound and I’m not looking for the overdrive in it. I want a pedal platform loud but compressed amp. And very very lightweight
It makes a big difference when you break the speaker in thoroughly
No competition. That Mesa is the best amp I’ve played to date,
Great amp indeed. This is not a competition
Budda Guedes never is, preferred tone is always subjective.
The Boogie sounds absolutely incredible. I have a Blonde Tonemaster Deluxe and I love what Fender has achieved in the digital realm. Great for cleans and light to mid gain sounds (mostly what I usually play). And I can play it late into the evening at home at low power settings. Love it!
Thanks for sharing. I went with the Tone master, oddly enough!!!
I own the Tone master Deluxe and was interested in purchasing a Fillmore 25. My Tone Master is adequate but just doesn't have any "depth" or "feel," for lack of better terms. I picked out the Fillmore on all the tests so I guess that's my next amp. LOL. Thanks for the tests!
Eh! Eh!
I guess you have answered yourself.
Try the Fender supersonic 22
It’s a great amp
Very hard decision - to my ears, the overdrive sounded better on the Boogie, but the funk tone went clearly to the Fender.
Tough decisions!!
We hear nothing but good things with these Fender tone masters, and the attenuator built in the amp is brilliant!
I really like it. And the weight....
I never thought I would say this, but the Mesa actually sounds better. Hands down.
Thanks for your comment
Errrr, you mean you’re surprised an all tube amp, which is twice the cost, sounds better than a digital modelling amp ?
Actually I ended up buying the Tone Master
@@BuddaGuedes Hi Buddha, interesting. I tried the Tonemaster here in the U.K. last year. I thought it very practical as a gigging amp and in a band mix fine, but still felt played on its own that it sounds a bit thin and digitised verse a high quality valve amp. If I was gigging regularly I would definitely seriously consider one. Light, no valves to break, direct out. I get it, they are getting seriously close now with this tech, but it’s that elusive 5% that’s still not quite there for me.
It’s a very good amp even compared to tube amps
Cabinet Size. The fillmore with a cab is better than any of the currently made DR products except maybe the Custom Shop hand-wired thing they are doing (which isn't the original circuit either)
The Fender cabinets are still alright, but basically everything in the chassis is debatable. The fact that people buy the reissues to gut them should be a dead-giveaway. No one I know who has a Fillmore is disappointed with theirs.
The Fillmore has the pedigree of a tweed under the hood with some modern tricks--think of it as a re-imagining of a blackface amp. IMHO I think it's the better buy. --Unless you want grab and go I guess?
I preferred the sound of the Fillmore. I am presently using a Victory V40 Deluxe with a Zilla Cab loaded with an Alnico Cream. But, now I am tempted to get a Fillmore as well.
Ehh Eh!
To be fair , the fillmore is a fantastic amp so hats off to Fender as the Tonemaster sounded equally as good as the fillmore just a bit different. It could be tweaked to sound closer to the Filmore.
The both sound fantastic. Fender nailed the Deluxe in Tonemaster.
I completely agree. Thanks for your comment
I like the Tonemaster better. Classic Fender clean sound.
👌
Great demo sir! Both amps are great!!! Tough call!
That’s right
Mesa w/distortion was the belle of the ball. That's one spot that the Fender fell on it's face. The Fender was surprisingly good without distortion.
Thanks for your comment
Hey Budda, I ended up getting a Fender Tone Master on the strength of one of your videos, (and many others) and I haven't been disappointed at all although it took a bit of getting used to. I am not used to being able to use so much of the amps drive because it is screaming by then and I live near people.
So apart from saying thanks for the great video's... thanks... I wanted to ask... is there an octave down on the boogie? sounds like a boss OC-2 or something. I can just here a weird undertone as well as the regular guitar voice.
I am hearing it too......
I hear the octave but only on the recording!! I don’t really know why
@@BuddaGuedes hmm, weird one.
Thank you SO MUCH for this video. This is exactly what I needed. Muchas gracias!
You’re more than welcome
I prefer the sound of Boogie. It just seems to have more fidelity overall and sounds more alive. The DR sounds a bit muffled in comparison. That said, you did fool me on the last Test with the funk rhythm! The TM there was smoother. Congrats on finally making your decision! Did you consider the 65 DRRI as well?
I did and I own one now. I actually have a comparison of both in the channel. But for the versatility and different volumes the Tone Master still wins.
You are so right about coil cable & humbuckers!!!!!!
Eh! Eh!
I enjoyed your video overall. Noticeable and blatantly distinctive was the reverb on the Fender. It did not seem right at times. It was almost as if in the different playing samples a ceiling was met and could not be adjusted to correct for that.
I essentially preferred the Boogie Fillmore 25.
Thanks for your comment
Has this reverb had the update?
Yep thats it....gonna sell my 1966 super Reverb and get a Fillmore 25, the time as come
Great! Let me know when you get it
I dunno, there seems to be a slightly artificial feel to the sound of the Fender. I’d take the Boogie any day of the week. It’s much more versatile with the 2 identical channels, 3 voicing and a full spectrum of tube gain. I think the DR appeals to someone looking for a lightweight, low maintenance clean amp/pedal platform and actually uses vibrato on a regular basis.
That’s exactly why I bought it. I was looking for all of that
I Don't feel anything "artificial" when I play my DRTM. Knowing that it's digital and a model, intellectually sets most people up with a preconceived bias. I watched a ton of A/B videos because everyone on RUclips was making videos with the TMDR vs the Dr Re-issue and a difference was always prevalent, they would set the knobs the same but they would never try to dial in the same tones. I had to try one at the local shop and I, for one, was floored when I actually played one for myself. Immediately picked up the Blonde with the cream back Celestion neodynium speaker and haven't looked back.
The Fillmore combo here is indeed amazing, the dual channels with their own master volumes are super appealing. However, In this video, (most) of the Fender tones sound superior to me, but I've gotten over some of my own cognitive dissonance/bias about it being a computer in a box with a speaker.
I’ve bought the Tone Master for my surprise!!! I really love it and it fills the gap I was needing!!!
I picked the right amp in the test every time. The Tone Master Deluxe fills all the tone spectrum whereas the Boogie sounded thinner, fizzier and shriller. Not knocking the Boogie but it's not my cup of tea. I own the Tone Master Twin and it's a wonderful amp and I did own the all tube 65 Twin as well as the all tube Deluxe and sold both.
@Budda Guedes...you relly need to test out the Tone Master Twin as well. It only weighs 33 lbs, is switchable to 22 watts like the Deluxe and of course like the famous Twin Reverb offers middle and bright switch settings for both channels. Killer amp!
By the way great demos and I just subscribed to your channel. Keep up the great work!
Twin is not really my amp. I really love the deluxe. Thanks a lot
my biggest concern with the digital stuff is what do you do when it craps out after the warranty period? I had a new LIne6 PodGo that crapped and even here in California there was no repair station. Luckily it was purchased from Sweetwater and i had to send it to them for repair and it took 8 weeks. So yeah the digital stuff scares me a bit
But that’s the age we live in. It happens with cell phones, computers, TVs etc
@@BuddaGuedes True that
It’s just a way of looking at things!! Eh! Eh!
iPhones go for $1000+ and people know full well that in 2-3 years they will replace them. Considering the Tonemasters are around the same price, I consider it to be a steal. Yeah, it might break in ten years but you still got more out of it than a phone!
Thank you for this. I've owned several Boogies and I never liked the tone. This confirms, I still prefer the Fender tone over Mesa Boogie
I actually actually own a few Boogies and I really love the tone. Not the case of this Fillmore.
Odd thing about the ToneMaster. I’ve got one now and I’m experiencing the same phenomenon I get with every modeler or solid state amp I’ve ever used. My ears get tired of listening to it very quick. Side by side the TM nails the Deluxe tone and vibe but there is just something about the high end that sucks the life out of me. A good warm tube amp is like magic, makes me want to turn it up louder and makes me feel like I’m inside a beautiful blanket to sound that I never want to leave. Ordering a used Fillmore to see how it goes.
I’ve sold mine because there’s a big difference. It’s very convenient but something is lacking
It’s quite an interesting test. The two amps couldn’t be more different! I have actually the same TMDR with a strat and a DGT (and sooner or later I’ll get a tele too!). The Fillmore is a very nice amplifier but I prefer the DR with the single coils. With the DGT, if possible the difference between the two amps is even more apparent: it seems almost you’re playing two different guitars. In your video I might actually prefer the Fillmore with the PRS. What kind of settings are you using for the DGT on the DR?
I don’t receber actually. I sprayed ser the amp by ear.
I ended up buying the deluxe reverb. I really loved it
IMO it always boils down to the taste of the individual. Being over 70, my likes are a lot different to a kid of 16. Some like chocolate and some like vanilla, which is the way it is and should be....
That’s all it is: personal taste
Fender sounds good, but it still has that flat solid state sound. Prefer the Boogie.
Thanks for your comment
biggest difference? In 40 years the MB will still be going strong. non-Fender Custom Shop amps trade on the pre CBS glory and only last 4-7 years...so spend ya $ on the Mesa Boogie ...oh and the sound of the Mesa Boogie is heavenly!!!
Thanks a lot for your comment.
@@davidgraham952 You got that right!!
some folks cant hear that difference , its unfortunate....all done with solid state amps
Olá Budda!
Pergunta de leigo: Se um dos factores é o preço, porque não o Hot Rod Deluxe? É ainda mais barato que o Tone Master e é a válvulas. Curiosidade pura de quem quer aprender.
Obrigado pela partilha! :)
Porque este suas melhor e pesa quase nada. É um dos meus amps favoritos de momento.
Grande abraço
The tone master is solid state the boogie is an amp with feel and depth. Turn it up more next time too.
I did turn it up a lot
@@BuddaGuedes your guitar volume= more tone!
I agree with you Buddha!
Thanks
Man, trying to decide between these two and a Morgan MVP23. The Tone Master with its weight and those cleans seems like the perfect amp to lug around and as a pedal platform.
A, B, A, both. So I guess the winner for me was the Fender and more cash in my pocket.
For me too
Digital amps/amp modelers have come a LOOOOONG way...
But you can hear the solid state in the Fender...the character of the tubes in the Mesa sound better...plus it’s not as “muddy” and low end heavy...
🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
The Fender is digital, a giant powerful computer.
What do you mean?!
I preferred the Fender each time in the blind test. Fender have more clarity for cleans, and sounds meaner for distorted sounds. Fillmore sounded small and overly compressed in comparison.
👌
Even over you tube I can tell its a solid state Good but nowhere near the openess of the Boogie Filmore.. Spend a little more and get the Filmore I hope he didnt say in the beginning he chose the Fender!!! Wow
I actually didn’t like the boogie. Ended up buying the Tone Master but I’ve sold it already!!
The TM sounds much more “open” and bright in a good way. The F25 is a bit compressed and not as bright slightly muddy. I have a F50 and love it but have been wanting a DRRI. This is not helping my GAS!
The deluxe Reverb is one of my favorite general purposes amps. It always sounds good
I want a Super Reverb Tonemaster
Eh eh
I liked A, A , A ,A ! and that was Deluxe, Mesa, deluxe , Mesa! now how can I live with myself in this ambivalence. Thanks for the videos Budda, keep the good work coming.
Eh eh! Thanks
Two great amps, I also like the Fender a bit more. God it sounds like the original Deluxe Reverb!!
It’s just incredible
Why use the tremelo?
What do you mean!!?
You’ve nailed it exactly. I have a Fillmore 25 and 50, and a vintage blackface and silverface DR. I bought a Deluxe Tone Master just to see if what people were saying was true. My conclusion: IF I were a professional gigging musician, I would buy a Tone Master because it’s mighty close to the original and is a breeze to carry. The power scaling feature and xlr line out make it super gig friendly. Takes pedals well and sounds good. Is it the best? No. There’s some nuances lost vs my blackface, and the Fillmores dual cloned channel arrangement is brilliant. They are superior amps. BUT, and it’s a big but, in a band mix gigging, you won’t hear enough difference to offset the convenience of the Tone Master. Plus, as I’m sure you agree, tubes are just plain cool! Thanks for some great vids.
I totally agree with you. I bought the tone master!!! It’s such a great amp
Hi Budda, could you please compare your Tone master with your Twin reverb? Thank you!!
That’s a cool idea
Also, have you heard about the tone Master blonde? It has a Celestion speaker that is apparently better than the neo Jensen (more mids and sounds closer to the real tube deluxe)
It’s not a better speaker! Just different. With the firmware update it gets the same as the blonde except the real speaker
Thanks Budda. Last question : would you rather gig with the tone Master or a Hot rod deluxe?
With the tone master
The Fillmore has more mids.
I know, I used to own it.
I didn’t like it
Keep in mind that the Fillmore has a Celestion speaker vs the Tone masters Jensen which makes a big difference. I own the twin version of this tone master and I absolutely love it. I am looking to get a Fillmore vs mark v
They are very different amps
I’m confused about who is considering picking between these 2? They’re drastically different amps… tubed vs solid state and clean amp vs amp with 3 gain structures… it just seems like they have nothing in common aside from being amps and having knobs 😅
I needed an amp that would allow me to go out and play straight to it. I thought the Filmore would be it but the tonemaster was also an option. And actually I ended up buying the Tonemaster
Fillmore 100 is the Fillmore to go for IMO... The cleans are better.
Yes, but it’s not what I was looking for. Super heavy.
For that I already have the lonestar
weird that he didn't play the songs/ sounds the same during some of the A/B especially the crunch. I think because the TM can't remotely crunch up like the Fillmore.
I played a lot of similar stuff
For sure, mostly similar, But it was sometimes a little less "aggressive" on the TM. 👍🏼
Quick update: I bought the Fillmore 50 combo and basically hated it for only one reason.
The amp has a blowing white noise that never goes away.
I had it checked by Mesa's approved repair engineer but the Amp noise is deemed NORMAL.
I checked and compared with another 25W version and same issue. Noise is always present impossible to remove it. I sold the amp.
I am done with tube amps and Mesa s in general.
That’s strange!!! But you always have noise with electric guitars. It’s part of the game
Hello Budda ! Another update here ^^ I radically changed my mind on the topic and repurchased the amp. :-)
Lost money in the process but also made peace with noise after changing guitar and signal chain. It has been a few months and I thought I owed the community an update.
You are 100% correct Noise is part of the game. In the case of the Boogie noise is far less present than an JC-40 from Roland which is not even a tube amp.
Glad to know you’re happy
Welcome to Mesa! Hiss and hum on everyone model. Got rid of every Boogie I've bought because of "normal," hiss and hum.
Boas Budda! O Mesa no meu ver tem grande som, mas olha que o fender até surpreendente. Mais uma vez parabéns pelo conteúdo.
Muito obrigado . Grande abraço
I said A B A and toss up on Test IV
Thanks
Cheers! Great video! I have to remember to cancel my WWE subscription so I can afford to become a Patreon supporter for your channel! I traded away my Fender '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb for a ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb after seeing how great it sounded on your video! I do think the Jensen n12k sounds very fat and warm, and a little snappy, but I can't help but wonder what it might sound like with another speaker- I recently got my hands on a used Eminence Lil Texas, which should have more top end, as the c12k that the n12k was modelled after rolls off the tops quite a bit, but maybe that is desirable for a lot of gain. Wish I could make videos like yours! Please let us know if you ever do a speaker swap in the ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb! Would love to hear it with another neo or even some ceramics and alnico speakers, as long as they can handle 100 watts! Rock on, Doctor Guitar!!! 😎🎸🎶
Thanks a lot
The Fillmore all day long.
👌👌
do you still use Lonestar as the main amp?
Yes I do in the studio. It’s just a killer amp
I’d like to hear the Filmore up with a Supersonic 22.
That’s a close comparison I think
hmmm Fender sounds decent for solid state , made in China, cant fix anything if it breaks,,,Mesa, made in USA all Pro model , should never break, and will last alot longer than the Chinese made Fender...no brainer to me
The Boogie has more bite and sounds a bit colder. The Tonemaster has a warmer softer sound. I liked it better
Me too
Your view duration would've been way higher if you didn't spoil which one you picked until the end
Yes I know. But I don’t like to fool my viewers!!!
1st enjoy your playing!I'm newly subscribed to your channel Have a good day.
Thanks a lot and woofing to the family
Mesa sounds the best
🙏🙏
The fender is cheaper. And you can count on the solid state to be more reliable. Plus you can beat it up without feeling bad about it.
Ehh Eh!. And the tonemaster is super lightweight
Mesa for the win. The Fender is convenient and sounds good but will not be around in 10 to 15 years, they will not even release a repair schematic. I know you collect quality gear as do I to some degree, I can't justify the cost of an amp that has a limited life that's in the same price range as an amp that has the ability to last 50 plus years. The quilter interblock 45 is $145 used, all analog, has an effects loop, and sounds like a blackface fender while fitting on your pedal board, all you need to carry is a cab.
The quilter is a great suggestion. Nonetheless the line6 DL4 is around for more than 20 years and it’s still there. The main problems with computers is the update and the interaction with other apps and programs:
SSL mixing desk have a computer to control automation and it’s been there since the 80’s.
My concern with the TM is if and when it breaks, it'll be much more difficult to repair. If it's still within the warranty you may get some help from Fender. However, if it's outside the time frame, well, good luck. Modeling amps (which is what it is) are not easy to fix.
I know, but the same happens with iPhones and GoPro.
It’s the age we live in.
The Mesa is a LOT more versatile...strange comparison, of course the Mesa is better...it even separates Gain and Volume controls!
That doesn’t mean a thing. Actually I bought the tone master. It did exactly what I wanted!! And the Mesa didn’t!! Versatility is not the only aspect to take into consideration
@@BuddaGuedes Yes, I didn't mean to knock the Fender, both are cool amps!
I get it. The important thing is that you like the amps you have. We all have different tastes even in different periods.
Thanks a lot for your support and comments
Recently bought a Blonde Tone Master Deluxe and was considering a Fillmore. Thanks for saving me so much cash!
You’re welcome
The Fillmore doesn’t have the headroom the fender has
That’s true
The boogie drive sound is a thing of its own. However I’m not getting the clean. To my ears the highs are brutal and harsh and extremely stiff
It’s way more high mids in the Filmore and less bottom
I've been a boogie guy for years. In my opinion, the best boogie cleans are "dirty" channels cleaned up with the guitar volume knob or played lightly. I hope this helps
That’s a really great tip. I love Mesa boogie (I own 7 boogie amps)
Is the Fillmore 25 loud enough for full band gigs
i’ll take the Boogie !
🤘🏻🤘🏻
mesaboogie sounds like a honeypot
The tone master good for clean . But don't stand a chance to the valves speally U put a cmods brownie dis threw on the dirty
🙏🙏
Nothing beats valve's .but the weight is a killer. I don't no why after all these years they haven't fix the weight
It’s mainly the transformer and speaker. Those are the heaviest parts of a tube amp
I bet the new blonde Tone Master, with the Creamback speaker, will get that much more focused tone that the Fillmore has. I personally have the Tone Master Deluxe. But, I like the way the Fillmore drives, and the blonde Tone Master. I guess that means that one day I may have to go stereo Tone Master clean (original + blonde) and then blonde dirty :)
I didn’t know they released a blind tone master!!!
I think Touch response is important to alot of players
The way an amp feels is very Important and there's no way a modeling amp can achieve
what tubes can do!
I can practically predict that many players would very soon look to replace the tonemaster realizing this after the buzz wears off a bit
No one can tell someone what to like ,
But mesa boogie amps
Are much more sophisticated
🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Cool test. Switching it up made it great. I was actually picking the Deluxe on all except the last one. Although I think you could get that brighter tone with some adjustments. But absolutely I would go Deluxe
Thanks for sharing
@@BuddaGuedes you should try the Blonde Deluxe Reverb tone master. I have one. All I can say is, wow.
If I hadn’t bought this one that would be what I do
The boogie sounds much better to me, more character. The tone master sounds too flat.
🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻
@@BuddaGuedes although it is a limitation that often nice bottom end sounding amps sound dull on RUclips. Probably that fender tone master sounds better in the room
I think it’s also a matter of personal taste. I’m a Fender guy. Although i love to hear other people on different amps, whenever I play a fender amp I’m at home. That’s probably why I love my supro amps so much, because they have that fender vibe with more compression and midrange. That’s why I was looking to the Mesa boogie. Because it states the exact same thing. But I feel that the mids are in a different spot of the ones I like
@@BuddaGuedes that’s very interesting you say that. I was actually just trying to buy a supro but here in Japan the model I want has no date for a next shipment yet so based on your video actually I got the Fillmore. Arrived today and it is awesome but I see your point. Seems to have more high mids and less of a balanced crunch but the high gain setting to me has something really special which luckily for now I dig. Next supro :)
Mesa Boogie is super great! One of the best amp brands out there
The Tone master deluxe reverb is a better pedal platform.
I ended up buying the deluxe reverb
@@BuddaGuedes I'm selling my Twin Reverb to fund a TMDR. I was considering the tube DR but from your demo, the TM nailed the original tube tone.
I really love it, specially if you have to carry it around. If you don’t, I think the tube version is a better investment
@@BuddaGuedes I don't gig, but with the built-in attenuator, it could be a perfect home/bedroom amp.
That’s also true
B ba c a a a c
Fender sounds much better to my ears....and I'm a Mesa Boogie fan.
I like it too!! That’s why I bought it!!
Fender sounds weak
👍🏻
In the end, to no one's surprise, the Tone Master is better at capturing the Fender vibe and the Fillmore sounds like a Boogie which just 'leans' toward a Fender sound.
If you are looking for a Fender guitar you go away from this video liking the Fender. If you prefer that fat Boogie midrange you will prefer the Boogie.
Boogies are also very solidly designed and road worthy.
In terms of price or weight there is no comparison. But to be fair, looking at what goes into a Tone Master it 'should' be less expensive.
I love the tone master noite and not every day. It’s actually becoming my go to amp!!! Specially after updating the firmware. And I’m a Mesa boogie guy (I own 5 Mesa Boogie amps)
Tonemaster hands down! The blonde one is absolutely amazing! Hands down, the best amp! And the 24lb weight is mind boggling
The weight is incredible indeed
Great great great review !!!!! the blind test was truly eye (and hears) opening.
It would be great to test the Fender with the Fillmore speaker (black shadow?).
Gosh I love both :D
Great anos indeed