Fender ’65 Deluxe Reverb Or Tone Master? - That Pedal Show
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- These two amps look almost identical, but on the inside they couldn’t be more different. Which one do we buy?
Life too short for long RUclips videos? Please see the ‘Interesting bits and go-to sections’ information below.
Welcome to the show. One of life’s more puzzling mysteries is why That Pedal Show does not have a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb amp. Erm, yet. This 6V6-powered, 22-watt titan of tone has brought the electric guitar to life on countless stages and in countless studios since the mid-1960s. It is without question one of THE classic guitar amps of all time. Ever. So we thought it high time we acquired one. Credit card at the ready.
Hold your horses, Tiger. In 2019, Fender introduced the Tone Master series of amps, comprising a digital modelling Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb that, to the casual observer, look exactly like their valve-driven namesakes. Pick one up and you realise this isn’t the same thing at all. These relative featherweights require no hefty transformers and swap their ceramic speakers for neodymium. They are also considerably less expensive.
It had to be done. We got them both in, gave them a blast and put our money where our mouths are. Let’s do this!
Enjoy the episode!
ETHICS STATEMENT
We figure we may get some new viewers for this video so we'll reiterate this about That Pedal Show.
We have never accepted, nor will ever accept, any payment for product placement, for making videos or for reviewing gear. We only play what we want to play and NOTHING else. TPS is funded via merch sales, Google ad revenue, Patreon donations and some retailer affiliate links. None of which influences our choice of gear, as you can hopefully tell by the stuff we use most.
When we buy gear, we are usually able to do so with a trade or artist discount that's pretty consistent across the majority of manufacturers. We bought the ’65 Deluxe through Fender's artist program, and very grateful we are too.
Thanks for reading!
Amps & pedals in this episode…
• Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb
UK & Europe: bit.ly/36fyCI1
USA: imp.i114863.net/jEQg0
• Fender ’65 Deluxe Reverb
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2G9OnFJ
USA: imp.i114863.net/LvOGY
• Ibanez Tube Screamer Mini
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2dRVXa2
USA: imp.i114863.net/5ey3N
• Boss BD-2w Waza Craft Blues Driver
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2DwcjzE
USA: bit.ly/3leezR7
Australia: bit.ly/3i1Jkp1
• Wampler Plexi Drive - links to mini version
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3HCqPUi
USA: bit.ly/3HxIuwa
Australia: bit.ly/3pWjY1N
• J Rockett Squeegee
UK & Europe: bit.ly/36g7jNH
USA: imp.i114863.net/EnOXK
Australia: bit.ly/3kTUNrm
• Keeley Fuzz Bender
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2GgiivU
USA: bit.ly/3HWmg8c
Australia: bit.ly/3n08pmF
• Boss CE-2w Waza Craft Chorus
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2fkq9tv
USA: bit.ly/30YiTN0
Australia: bit.ly/2iqp2rs
• Dunlop EP103 Echoplex Delay
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2cQsuNc
USA: bit.ly/3G6EUbJ
• TheGigRig G2
www.thegigrig.com/g2
* Why do we have preferred retailer links? Find out here: www.thatpedalshow.com/partners
Interesting bits and go-to sections…
- Intro playing: 00:00
- Today’s task and context?: 01:43
- Quiet, amp only at ’home?’: 04:43
- Back to the studio and more volume: 12:51
- Volume at 4.5 - are we overdriving yet?: 14:57
- Bit more volume…: 17:10
- No mid range pot: 18:45
- What about the TM attenuator?: 19:50
- Let’s listen to some pedals: 23:00
- Strat, Tube Screamer, Echoplex: 24:55
- Chorus, Blues Driver, Echoplex and more: 25:59
- What do we think so far?: 28:04
- Clean sounds, no pedals: 29:11
- What about the speaker? Let’s change it: 34:15
- Both amps into the same speaker, sounds: 35:40
- …and with Tube Screamer and Echoplex: 37:58
- Dan has a play, compressor and chorus: 40:33
- That’s the one we’ll buy: 43:24
- Reverb and tremolo? 45:07
- Why no amp settings or blindfold test?: 48:18
- Dan’s in love: 49:45
Guitars in this episode:
Gibson Custom True Historic ’57 Les Paul Goldtop, Murphy Aged - no video yet
• Fender Custom Shop ’52 Heavy Relic Telecaster - Dan’s video at bit.ly/2Hlpy5Y
• 1965 Fender Telecaster - no video yet
• Fender American Vintage ’62 Stratocaster - Mick’s video at bit.ly/2cQv3yT
• Fender John Mayer Signature Stratocaster - no video yet
We hope you enjoy this episode. Please subscribe to our channel.
You can buy TPS merch to support our efforts www.thatpedalshowstore.com
We are on Patreon - crowdfunding for creatives
/ thatpedalshow
Please visit our preferred retailers!
UK & Europe: Andertons Music bit.ly/2cRvIvt
Australia: Pedal Empire bit.ly/2mWmJQf
USA: That Pedal Shop www.thatpedalshop.com/ 
Видеоклипы
The perfect time for a pedal channel to use an A/B pedal but here we are plugging and unplugging lol
Thank you Mick and Dan, as usual for a great ind informative video.
Hope you don't mind if I chime in with some considerations about the two speakers that are in these amps: A Jensen C12K in the '65, and a Jensen N12K in the TM. The key difference between them is the magnet: Ceramic for the C12K, Neodymium for the N12K, thus half the weight!
Fender gave us the mission to develop a Neo version of the C12K, to sound and feel virtually indistinguishable from the original Ceramic speaker.
Not an easy task, but eventually we did it: the two speakers have a nearly identical frequency response curve and dynamic response feel.
Yes, the Neo, for its nature, behaves a little different from the Ceramic. It actually behaves closer to an AlNiCo than to a Ceramic, so we tweaked other parameters to assimilate the two to the max possible.
If you would take one of the two amps and switch the two speakers back and forth, from the C12K to the N12K, you'll be have a pretty hard time to tell one from the other.
So, finally, if you heard one amp more mid-focused and one brighter and more scooped... it's not the Neodymium speaker that makes that difference, and you proved it when plugging both into the WGS loaded cab.
Hope this adds one small piece of information to the whole picture... In case you'd want more info... let me know!
Cheers from Ignazio Vagnone / Jensen Speakers.
Ignazio - Thanks man, good to hear from you. We need to talk about our Super Reverb. :0)
Gotta say, when we get around to doing the VCQ on this one I’ll be saying more positive things about Neo speakers than I ever have yet. Mick here. No problems with mic’ing this one!
Hey Jensen, I hate to break it to you but your Blackbird speaker is too good.
I really want to put 4 in an old Fender 4x12, but bills and my other 4x12 keep telling me it's not time yet 😭
I have a couple of Tornado Stealth 65s in my JCM 800 2x12 combo to avoid the previous requirement for a crane to lift the thing, don't feel like I'm missing out any, except maybe a few herniated discs.
@@jwlademann I've found if you go nuts helping your drummer they have to help you with your amp🤣
@@shawnmcvey7789 we're so pleased to hear how much you like the Blackbird! Take yr time, save for your bills, and it'll come the time for a mighty 4x12 with'em!
This is probably my favourite TPS episode ever. I like it as much as much for the process as the content - watching these two gentlemen - vastly more experienced than I - investigate a comparison, not only gives me a bit but teaches me how to cast a net, as it were. Well done chaps.
The pursuit of the perfect tone and gear is half the fun.
Okay, so I’ll try to be as objective as I can. I’m a musician who does use digital amps and live amps for recording so I’m not really an amp snob. The Tonemaster is so much more practical, being:
1. Lighter
2. Having a DI out
3. Having control over how many watts you want
4. Sounding really good
But
The tube Deluxe reverb is my favorite clean amp, and nothing is going to come close to beating it. It just so much better. And it’s like comparing a 7-8/10 to a 10/10
If the tonemaster was like 350-400, maybe it would make me buy it, but 750$ brand new is too much. You can get a used deluxe reverb for that price. For the practical musician, the tone master will work, but it won’t beat a real one.
Well put!
Same.
where the hell can you find a 750$ used deluxe reverb???
@@Brucaleeffo eBay
@@Brucaleeffo plus shipping and tax
Forget the amps. I want the Fender coffee table !
I noticed that too, really cool thing.
There is one on Reverb . Fender Coffee Table . 200 $
Cool table, but it looks like a broken toe to me.
@@JS-nf1sn I see your point! I wouldn't have thought of that UNTIL I broke my toe.
@@JS-nf1sn Agreed, I would end up with that table leg wedged between my toes!
Let's see which one we're going to buy ?
I've more chance of biting my arse than you two buying a digital amp !!!!
@H Kay its a saying that I've stolen from my brother
😂
Your surname for sure makes it even harder
@@tomz1989 hahahaha
I bit my arse once.But then,I was on mushrooms at the time...................
Really love the glance in Dan´s eyes when he's pointing out that he fell in love with the amplifier ;) That's how you know that it's true !
I learn soooo much from both of you, it's so appreciated. I've come to trust on both you. Thank you!
Absolutely love that you did this one and ESPECIALLY that you included the home volume scenario. No complaints that you don't do this routinely - I get it - but it's fantastic when you do, cos so applicable to how so many people spend so much of their guitar time. Thanks!
I currently have the Twin version of the Tonemaster. It is not the same as my Deluxe Reverb or some of my other tube amps, but as a reliable gigging, practice , and silent recording amp at night when the family is in bed, the Tonemaster is pretty amazing. I do think Fender should keep relentlessly pursuing a sound that is closer to the tube counterpart, especially in the midrange and headroom found in the real tube amps. Still, can you believe that digital amps sound this good and are so easy to record with? I did a little recording thing with someone the other night where we just decided to lay down ideas with the cab sim xlr out on the Tonemaster. It sounds sick. We are not starved for tone. Just spoiled with options.
True Words
Jealous - the Twin is the one I want.
Does it compare to roland and the tweed tone of the blues cube?
@@LeviBulger there’s no reason to own one? Besides over doubling the price when you take into account the money you need to buy new valves?
Ofc the £1200 amp is gonna sound better than the £600 pound amp 🤷♂️
I just got the Deluxe Tone Master 5 days ago, I’m super happy with it. I had a Silverface Twin Reverb years ago, and I loved it, but it was too loud and too heavy to be useful in any way. Obviously the Deluxe (either tube or digital) is not supposed to sound like the Twin, but this Tone Master is as close to the sound AND feel of that old LOUD Twin I’ve ever gotten since I traded it for a Les Paul. It handles all my overdrive pedals extremely well for any style I want to play. I am REALLY curious about the Twin TM, now, but I’m not going to be able to swing that for a while.
I don’t see these Tone Masters replacing tube amps, but they are a very useful tool to add to the tool box. I’m loving mine.
Great episode, guys! As ever. One thing that IMHO should be considered in the equation is that
A. The speaker used is different and that might introduce variables in the frequency response comparison between the two amps.
B. The possibility of the TM to be upgraded via software which could bring in some modifications.
I think the TM is a good amp and regardless of the differences from the DRRI, it always gives the feeling of a real tube amp when playing. Which I haven’t found yet with any other digital simulation. It’s subtle, but it’s there
Thank you for not trying to be comedians and concentrating on the task at hand, very helpful.
For me, the tone master takes it. When you think about a DRRI’s “purpose” (working man’s gigging amp) the tone master does that job better than the tube version in my opinion. Great episode guys!
Blimey. Takes all sorts we guess! We don’t know about purpose as much as what is the most inspiring tone to play. That’s what we take to gigs! Cheers man, LOVING your work
The only way to know if you like it is to take it to a gig tbh. Any gear can catfish you at home.
I'm sure there's people who will love these, but you have to see it as a new product as opposed to a replacement for your tube amp.
I like tube amps, but the innovations with solid state stuff will really bloom when manufacturers and players embrace what's new and different.
Gear should be addressed on an individual basis for what it can do for you in the situation you use it. Everything else is just semantics at the end of the day.
Yeah, I'm sorta with Rhett here, in terms of purpose-driven (budget gig and rehearsal amp for the average player). The tone and feel is so close (I regular play on both versions of the Deluxe Reverb although my amp of choice is the Fillmore 50)...for hauling to gigs and rehearsals and having that attenuator is golden with the Tonemaster. If I was buying one for recording purposes, definitely would pick the reissue. The reverb on the reissue way better than tonemaster, imho.
I take the best sound I can make for my audiences. The better the sound, the better me and the band plays, the more the audience love it! It's easy to become cynical the audience doesn't know or care.
Haha, says the man with so many fantastic tube amps!
I couldn't disagree more Rhett... the brittle highs and distinct lack of midrange beef makes the Tonemaster sound thin. I also don't care for the reverb. Thats where it really gives away its digitaliness....
I had originally suspected that changing that Neo speaker out would help a lot. But at least with the speaker they used here it only made the Tonemaster sound more brittle and compressed. And yet the tube amp sounded great through that external cab!
Even if you did find a suitable speaker... your weight advantage is gone. But to each their own... that's why there are so many amps! :)
I spent almost 10 hours over three days playing these two amps, plus a '68 custom deluxe and three other special edition DRRIs with different speakers. I even got to bring in my pedal board (my local shop is SO cool!)
In the end I went home with the standard '65 DRRI because it sounded the most like what a Deluxe Reverb should sound like. Plus, I can mod it! It works GREAT with the UA Ox and I've never had a pedal that didnt sound brilliant into the front of the amp.
I only wish they had had the handwired '64 Custom Deluxe to try out. But from what I hear that amp breaks up at around 3 1/2 because of the low powered speaker. maybe the C12k would help... but that amp is already $2,500. Eek!
Someday I'll find a vintage one like that sweet '67 you played in one of your videos. THAT was killer.
i’m 35 seconds in and I already know they’re gonna pick the tubes
I hadn't even clicked 'play' and I knew that.
I haven’t had the opportunity to compare my Tone Master to the all valve 65 reissue but having already heard the comparisons from Anderson’s and others, to my ears, the mid range on the 65 reisue wasn’t as clean as the Tone master. However some may like is that way. Not for me though, as when I want it clean I want it clean, as I can always dirty up the signal, with a drive peddle, but you can’t go back the other way. It’s just what you like, that matters after all.
This is a real classic. The enthusiasm you bring to putting these amps through their paces and really trying to give the tone master a fair shake is infectious and entertaining. Well done.
Kudos for doing this comparison and it seems there really are people who like the sound of the Tonemaster. I think it’s good, but I expected it to be closer in it’s high eq and presence, it did the thing that I’m noticing again and again with digital things, but I can’t quite describe. A kind of rounding off or dulling of some of those high freqs.
Thanks very much. Finally- a high audio quality comparison of these amps where the presenter isn't trying to sell the Tonemaster!
Welcome to That Pedal Show! :0)
Thanks for a great video.
I have only tried the DR Tonemaster in a shop when I A/B'd it against a Twin Tonemaster. The twin won hands down for what I wanted.
I would like to have seen an EQ pedal with the DRs to get rid of the whole mid curve issue.
However I agree with your general conclusion, the RI without eqing pushes the mids more and that's what you were looking for from a playing live standpoint. For me I have learnt that when playing at home, usually jamming along to recorded music, you need the exact opposite. IE cut those mids around 3.2K so your sound sits in the mix. That's why at home the Twin Tonemaster with a good eq pedal is perfect, and replaced my Fender valve amp.
Thanks again for a great show.
I really appreciate the honesty of this review. One of the few channels that doesn’t hype or let the manufacturer bias their opinion.
Hearing them both through the same speaker was the real test I've been waiting for. THANK YOU!
I'm not sure I can hear all the differences you hear. But even if they are different, the Tone Master for sure sounds like a proper Fender tube amp. Which is a pretty amazing achievement, even if it's not dead on for the exact model.
I’m so happy you chose the DRRI!! I took a gamble this summer while waiting for my Strat from the custom shop and took one home. It was my first tube amp, after playing a little mustang I for many years. My life has changed.
You are right, I’m fortunate to life in a house now but it is shockingly loud. I only have an OCD V2 at the moment for some drive, but with amp vol on 2, I can barely let any volume out of the pedal at all, it’s crazy loud, but oh so good. I do find a bit of high end harshness from the reverb channel, but I do realize that in a mix or band situation, you’d want that.
Anyway I’m so glad you enjoy that amp. The tremolo and reverb are so good.
What an amazing job you guys did. I am picking out an amp for my son's 21st birthday and it was down to between these 2 amps. Made my choice with the 65
reissue easy. Thank you!
Wow the most telling and decisive look at these amps I've heard yet. I want to want one of these tone masters, but the anemic nature of it next to the actual tube amp is clearly evident here. Thank you!
I suggest you try them in person. They range from being kinda different from the tube amp and 100% identical. And it's really just because every single tonemaster amp sounds identical, but every tube amp sounds quite different.
I own the Tonemaster and love it. I also try comparing with the tube counterparts anytime I see them next to each other at a store. The tonemaster always sounds like mine and the tube version always sounds different. Most of the tube ones, especially if they are used, sound a bit less pristine. Like they are noisier, have more mid range, and the attack is softer. Which is something that can be preferred. But some of them have a sharper attack and are more scooped and sound very clean, just like the tonemaster. Clearly the latter was Fender's preference when deciding which Tube deluxe to base the tonemaster on.
But I love the tonemaster. I play with my amp cranked to 10 at midnight in my apartment without bothering neighbors because of the attenuator. Getting the tone I want at any volume is so great. The fact that it weighs about 20 pounds is amazing. And Recording direct with it is a dream. If I need to record an Idea quickly, I just throw in an XLR cable and that's it. Don't need to set up a mic or worry about my recording volume.
@@TheDilligan Thanks man. I agree these things have come a LOOOOOOOOONG way, and that almost every Twin I have ever plugged into sounds very different. I did go play one and it did sound great, in isolation. The only way to truly tell for me would be in a full band full volume situation to see how it sits with the rest of the band. I also kinda thought it sounded very much like the Quilter amps that I'd played that sounded great on their own but then when put next to an actual tube you could really pick out the false extra low end and over sparkley highs. If only they'd built in a more hp/lp eq like the tube versions just do naturally. One of these days!
Hi, Brendan! Updating the firmware to 'Blonde' (no speaker swap!) made a HUGE difference. See my post above (12/2021). I was initially quite disappointed but now the TM has become my go to amp as it sounds really good and is light as *%ll. Also fun to see peoples reactions when I show there's no tubes. Cheers!
The tonemaster sounds great, there's no doubt there and to the average pub/club punter probably the same. But on studio monitors with a direct A/B comparison, they're worlds apart. I would totally buy the tonemaster if I was gigging every night with no roadies but for a studio it'd be the real deal all day long
100% right :)
This is the way
My thoughts exactly, but why the high price tag then? Poor gigging musicians deseve a tonemaster in the 500 range. Methinks some kind of greed involved here. Vox put out it's nighttrain, a 30W tube head and celestion speaker cab for 500. No excuse for pricing a modelling amp at 900.
I'm not a native english speaker so my english are limited. Can someone explain to me what he's trying to say in a simple word. Thanks.
I totally agree, but the price is an absolute joke. I bought the Mustang LT50 which is basically 1 thousand dollars cheaper here in Aus. It has a line out to run to the desk, and you can get some really awesome tones from it plus it has all the effects built in.
Hey guys, I absolutely love this show! You two are a great team and by the way, I think I'm addicted to watching these. Better than being addicted to other stuff because it inspires me to grab my guitar. You guys even inspired me to build a pedalboard out of scrap wood I had in my garage... I did it during my lunch hour LOL.
Thanks for the quick switching between amps since my music memory is short. I have a 1966 DR and the 65' RI - both with Jupiter speakers - I really appreciate it when you used the 1x12" open back cab which highlighted the major difference in tone.
I do have the Tone Master Twin Reverb amp since a few months ago and I love it, even though it's digitally made than using actual watts but I love how warm sounding with its cleans and crunch and the interesting sound it delivers with its control and the watt switch at the back is very good stuff for volume of the watts, plus sounds as good yet differently to my mind as the other Fender amps. The weight is also a big help that isn't as heavy as others. Perfect for gigging as well connecting it to the PA.
You guys really are not the target audience for the Tonemaster. As you've shown over years of doing this show, you're about tone at all costs, regardless of inconvenience or cost. I think the Tonemaster still sounds really good, maybe just not as good as the '65. But the tradeoff is you get an amp that's less expensive initially, has lower maintenance costs over time, is much lighter, can overdrive at any volume, and can record or go to a PA direct. None of the benefits of the Tonemaster really matter to you guys so that's all out the window.
I'll also say, I think the new blonde Tonemaster sounds much better than that one. Andertons did a good video comparing the two.
Spot on...
As someone who almost only uses an amp in my practice room, dialing down the watts is rather important. I found I couldn't get full tones out of my 15 watt amp, but at it's 5 watt settings it sounded much better. I would imagine that with a good EQ pedal, I could get good tone out of the Tonemaster and use it at home.
Well said. I love these guys, but I knew before starting the video that it wasn't for them hah
Yeah, there's never really much question as to which will sound better, vintage vs. modelling. It comes down to cost and other features. This is also the guy that will play a vintage tape echo over one of the fine new pedals, so we know what he is going to like better going in.
But the blonde has a celestion speaker and is not so charateristic Fender'ish😉It's maybe better for the overdriven sound. I still prefer the black one......no I still prefer the '65 Deluxe Reverb😉
I have a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb Clone built by an amp tech friend (my favourite amp), and a Tone Master Twin that I bought for gigs so that I could keep my tube amps at home for recording and practicing. It has worked out very well - the TM Twin sounds great and is the perfect amp for any gig with the low weight, attenuator and speaker-emulatated direct out. I actually use it a lot for practicing as well because I can leave it on all day without worry of wearing out tubes and I turn the attentuator all the way down. At this point, the Tone Master is just another one of my amps with a few conveniences though it can't be used to heat my room :-) As for the comparison, both amps sound great to me in the video, though quite different.
Whatever video of yours I'm watching, it usually makes me wanna play my guitar right away :) Love your channel!
Thanks guys, such a thorough and accurate comparison! Great playing and fun attitude!
👍🏼🔆❤️
The Silverface 68 Deluxe is the often forgotten, but amazing gem of the deluxe reverb world
I have a silverface 68 vibrolux and I love it. I’ll run it alongside my vox ac30, but if I’m playing with only 1 amp, I go to the vibrolux.
I think this is one of the best illustrations of the difference between tube tone and those other amps. Great playing and both amps sound good but there’s SO much more life in the DRRI. Fascinating as always guys, you’re doing the lords work.
Possibly best demo and exposure of differences on these amps, great job! Man the 65 Deluxe..wow.
To be honest, all the difference (quite clear) seems to be in the midrange, and that seems very very fixable (with EQ's , or as shown with the tube screamer). The overall sound and feel is way to close to be relevant, like many owners say, and like several blind tests showcase. Also, it seems that the firmware mods bring great improvements (bright cap, reverb ...). I won't sell my Vox and Fender tube amps, but I'm aware that a big part of the attachment is purely emotional and subjective. Thanks for taking the time to do such a comprehensive review.
I always test drive cars with a blindfold on. It's the only way you get a fair comparison.
Hahahahah
Hooah!
@@LorSTApunk07 Al? That you?
Stevie Wonder test driving a Cameo vs. a Tesla?
@@davidhovey5152 If he can play keyboards, bass, drums and sing all on the same track, then I'm pretty sure he can drive! :D
I owned a tonemaster for a bit. It really does sound close to the real thing, but the feel isn't quite there, and it compresses very quickly if you run a moderate amount of gain into it. I ended up taking mine back after the first gig I played with it at full volume, that's really where the issues become apparent.
That being said, I really do think it's a step in the right direction in terms of solid state amps, I hope in the future (however distant) they will get close enough to justify some of us gigging folk ditching tubes.
Digital modeling is different from Solid State transistor. Digital is solid state but, not all solid state is digital.
Really interesting comparison guys...This is one of the main reasons I tune in every week, Just super inspiring ..your passion for gear and your show has really helped To drive my passion for music and musical equipment...I know sometimes they do handwired versions , That comparison would be really interesting ..handwired Vs Standard Production (printed circuit board) ...Another rabbit hole but love for you guys to explore that in a future show...Thanks as always, you guys are just the best...
The 65 deluxe reverb is just amazing!!! When Dan played the tele through the mini TS it was to die for!!
I love the honesty TPS! Not every piece of gear is for everyone and I appreciate the specificity as to what you liked about TM and what isn’t working for you. It’s not easy to be even slightly critical of anything when you have a big audience and your opinions carry weight. So many RUclips guitar-related channels have become empty product commercials; and I can’t stand that.
Thank you James. Truth is, most YT channels are either being paid to make the video, or they’re trying to sell you the amp. All of which is cool and valid - many of those channels are WAY bigger than we’ll ever be - but still, that’s how it works. Cheers!
I’m not averse to modellers/cab sims, have a Two Notes Cab M+ on my board for “silent occasions”, but it’s clearly audible that the ones and zeros TM sounds flat (particularly with fuzz) and two dimensional compared to the sweet tube driven midrange and multidimensional reverb of the DRRI. Kudos to you chaps for giving the digital device a solid hearing. It is a different thing. 🤓
In this case even I who usually hear little difference in these A/B scenarios clearly heard a difference. For me the key is the reverb. That Fender sparkle sounded massively different with a real reverb tank. That's one reason I think the Blues Junior has been so popular for example. In my Marshall I usually turn the digital reverb off, just because it never sounds as good as a real tank does in a Fender amp.
But, with some dirt sounds I think I'd take the Tone Master. That shrillness might cut in a mix, but it does also cut other ways.
This is the best tonemaster comparison i’ve seen until now, very accurate!
I hear in the Tone master a mid range that I have heard in my own SS amps. Maybe SS amps can't dial out that midrange. I think there's just something about a tube guitar amp that just can't be replicated yet. Great work guys!
I used to have a deluxe and I briefly had the tonemaster when they came out. I was very impressed with how far the modelling had come and I think Fender have created a great product but I couldn't make it work for me as much as I wanted to... Meanwhile... Princeton Reissue arrived yesterday and I am LOVING it! Cheers from Australia!
I hope they put out a tonemaster brownface princeton at a reasonable price! If they use the same processing power they used on these but aimed it toward nailing the overdrive and tremolo on the brown princeton, fender wouldn't be able to make enough of them to keep up with demand. Fender, don't drop the ball, dammitt!🤘😎🤘
JakeFJ Princeton - Awesome 😎
Alan Ohagan or go a bit further in same direction = Morgan PR12 :-)
Did you get the ‘65 or ‘68 Custom Princeton? I just picked up the LE version of the ‘68 Custom with a Celestion Greenback. It is fantastic.
The '65 Princeton is epic. My local shop has a hot rod deluxe, a blues junior, an AC 30 and several other great amps. The Princeton is probably the most played amp in the shop.
Vid is a bit long but is by far one of the best and most comprehensive comparisons I ever watched. Compliments gentlemen!
Im getting a DRRI next week...
I played through it, it was perfect, and hearing you guys, im convinced i picked the right amp out of the pile.
Im a Marshall guy, but the reverb and the tremolo cant be beat
Wow.
I loved hearing you guys play...very inventive...
Just a reminder about the Monday VCQ announcement at the end of this video ... there is no Monday "LIVE VCQ" on Monday October 5th (2020 for anyone reading in the 'future') ... given a following wind LIVE VCQ returns on Monday October 12th @ 5PM BST
Thank you BV! Good job you’re awake!
Thanks BV!
I was considering one of the Tonemaster DRs for the reduced weight, will stick with my SF Deluxe Reverbs now!
I've been waiting since 2016 for you guys to get a Deluxe reverb on the show, glad you liked it, love mine.
Great video guys thanks! I think where you would really notice the difference is in a club turned up to about 4ish or higher (master). But the way modelers emulate that is with compression.
Love this episode! I bought the reissue and then a few months later the Tone Master came out. For a brief second I thought, "Did I just buy the wrong Fender amp?". I'm confident that the only actual advantage to the Tone Master is the weight. But you know I don't understand why that is such an advantage? If 64 lbs feels too heavy shouldn't we be thinking we need to get to the gym instead of I need a new lightweight amp? I'm 55 and I hope I can lift 64 lbs from my trunk (boot lol) to the stage for a long long time. The Deluxe Reissue is my go to amp and I have a Mesa Trem-O-Verb and a JCM 800. It just can cover almost any genre.
Amen, heavier amps for stronger people with more fight in them. The tone is worth it in my opinion
I love my ‘65 DR. I was never happy with my guitar sound until I finally sucked it up and dropped the money on a real tube amp. A Tele into a DR - there’s just no way to make it sound bad.
Earned my subscription through your thoughtfulness in doing this comparative. I.E. home simulation and changing amps on the fly.
Good episode, very thorough comparison (especially with the independent speaker). I agree with your assessment - to me, the TM sounded bright and a little sterile. I'd love to see a comparison between the '65 DRRI and the '64 handwired CDRRI. I bet you guys could summon some absolite magic out of that showdown.
So happy to see you guys did this. I have been thinking about one of these to replace my Blues Jr. The tone master was actually really good-especially for at home. Loved the '65 deluxe. Couple of questions: When buying this amp or any amp, would you try several of the same versions available in the store to see if there are slight differences between them and pick one or would you just buy any one? Would adding an eq pedal have helped add back or shape that difference in mids on the tone master? Lastly, now the '65 deluxe sounded amazing-but would a comparison with the '64 deluxe hardwired be in the future? Overall just hearing you guys play through both made me realize-I just need to get better at PLAYING, get better at hearing/listening (just more experience overall), and learning to dial in the equipment I already have. By the way, I liked the pedal board set up for this episode.
I’ve got the tone master and I love it to be fair I’m not a gigging guitarist so the attenuator is a real bonus at home I tend to use it the second lowest one most of the time, I used to gig and had several tube amps but due to the venues I played I never got any of them cooking, so bizarrely for me the tone master feels like the most tubey amp I’ve played, its great to see what you guys thought though ;)
Lee Crofts I have both in the Twin version and dirty power at home. The Tonemaster Twin works better than the Katana and GTX did sound wise for me and my absolute distain for the hum from my tube version made the Tonemaster the perfect fit for the living room. There is a place for both says my hum hating brain. Still in clean power use the tube version rules.
Yes, I think that the guys would agree with you - in fact I think Mick actually says so towards the end. P
The tone master seems like a perfect second amp, I’ve got a hand build 45 watt 5e3 combo that I’ll keep forever, but for that deluxe sound, and for silent recording with the cab sims I would love a tonemaster as my “practice amp”. I live in a dorm room, and being able to crank up a deluxe at .2 watts would be wonderful for me as well. Great video guys!!
Hey great video. Having owned a DR reissue before I know what it sounded like and haven't found that feel from any other small amp I tried. You helped me make up my mind again 😉
Its so funny to watch the pain in Dans face when he has to play a ss amp. The tone master is an amazing top level ss. I for one think I'm blessed that I enjoy both tubes and solid states. Truthfully in 2020, there is no better only different. Dan just happens to live in tube land. Its a nice town. Sometimes in tubeland your back hurts, sometimes all you hear is static, sometimes you gotta find an electronics professional to get you back up and going. But when your up and going, what a wonderful world. Lol, man that tone master and Micks strat, wowza. Love you Dan and Mick and Mr. Keely for your awesome pedal.
😂
You can easily fix a deluxe tern after warranty. Good luck fixing a ss amp after warranty lol.
tube snobs are idiots, and I own tube amps.
I have a tone master, love it, love the sound; but I lose the feel if I use a digital pedal into it. I read somewhere it is entirely designed for the Neodymium speaker, probably the reason there is no output socket for an external speaker. Nice show.
PS Thorpy FX Peacekeeper into it is glorious.
Really nice guys! Fantastic and thorough test!
Thank you so much for your work.
One thing tough - you constantly had less reverb on the tone master compared to the tube one through the first half of the video. This does take away some of the grandness from the tone master, and makes it sound a little more boring on the clean and slight breakup. I think it would have come across to us listeners as allot more close if the reverb had been matched. The same was present in your other room tests.
That said though... I still (only slightly) still like the tube one better. Especially from the pedal parts and outward.
I am getting the Twin Reverb tone master Blonde in two or three days... Really look forward to testing it.
Again thanks for a pristine, entertaining and informative video 😊👍
I've seen (& heard) Johnny Marr on the Tone Master, and I was sold!! 😃 Nice vid 👍
Really useful video. While I agree that the Deluxe '65 sounds better, this video has actually convinced me to buy the Tone Master, simply because the majority of my playing will be in my apartment and the attenuator and direct out will be really useful. For rehearsals and gigs, it still sounds decent enough. I had been thinking of getting a Hot Rod Deluxe IV as it's a similar price to the Deluxe Reverb Tone Master, but having done some research it seems the Hot Rod would still be too loud for home use.
The reverb tank difference was enough for me, it was like night and day.
I’m at 5 minute mark and let me say that I love everything about this video at this point. I’ve had a DRRI for years and I have been a bit peeved it hasn’t served as a platform on your show.
Expect to see a lot more of it from here on in. Cheers!
The playing while turning the cab sim on and off....-just great :)
It would be interesting to hear the amps in a real band mix. The difference in mid range actually might cut through a bit more on the Tone Master or suit a particular style / band. Perhaps rev 2.0 of the Tone Master could have a mid control or better yet fully parametric mid. 😉. Nice job as usual. I heard tones from both amps I liked. Position 2 on the strat through the tube amp is my favorite. Cheers 🍻
As always I find tube amps to be 3 dimensional in their sound, with more body than the software / modeling version. It's more than ok for rehearsal and small gigs, but I would never be tempted using them for recording. The Kemper, different tech (profiling), makes a much better choice as far as digital amps go. Admittedly only giving you a snapshot of how an amp was dialed in, but nevertheless... I've been listening on my Genelecs and my mixing headphones to make sure I know what I hear. Great vid!
I really appreciate this review. It is easy to hear the differences even on a tablet.
I’ve finally just bought a deluxe reverb (although heavily modified) and I love it. Mines had the vibrato disengaged in order to make room for an extra gain stage. The left channel has had a midrange control added in place of the second input, and the Jenson has been replaced by a Tone Tubby Red speaker. I’m also able to blend channels instead of them being out of phase. But it puts out a TON of volume right out of the gate.
Even a stock deluxe is quite loud. I used one in a studio with a live band, and even at 5 I was well above the band, and I’d just started to see a bit of breakup. These amps are phenomenally powerful for their size.
I had a hard time with these 2 choices about 6 months ago. I finally decided on the tonemaster because of the surprising great tone and other perks. No regrets at all. It is a fantastic amp!
@Luke lol. the classic argument. I played a hot rod deluxe tube amp for years and the tonemaster is not even in the same ballpark. Dare I say... it's better! Alot better. Congratulations on your purchase. It's an amazing amp.👍
@Luke absolutely. It's the perfect amp in my opinion. They definitely nailed it man. One thing you should know is that the speaker needs to be broken in. When I first bought it I thought it sounded good but after a few months of playing through it everyday it started to sound great! I haven't seen one person on the net complain about the amp yet. This amp is the future in my opinion. So much more convenient and less things to worry about. I just hope it can survive long time use. I don't see a whole lot that can go wrong with them though. I bought mine like a year ago and I still get excited every time I play it. I'm actually still as obsessed with it as I was the day I bought it. The hype is well deserved. Everybody seems to love em.
Being the tweaker I love being able to open up an amp and modify it. My DRRI is pretty incredibly sounding, removed the bright cap from the vibrato channel and changed the tone stack on the normal channel to have more of a bassman/jtm45 configuration. That plus a new speaker really brought the amp to life. I've played the tonemaster version and it's cool but I think it suffers from a lot of the same problems that plague the normal reissue. If you aren't a tweaker the tonemaster is great value and sounds pretty good, but after playing both the deluxe and the twin the twin wins IMO. Maybe it was just the day I tried them but I thought the twin with all the tonemaster trickery was way more interesting and useful. Great episode guys, and I'VE GOT TO SHIP THIS WORM BACK!
I hope you find Jesus and rehab helps you get better
@@slash2jimi Say what now?
You helped figure out that I bought the tonemaster for the wrong reasons!
Traded for a pair os lovely pro level studio monitors today! It’s plug-ins for me for the time being, until I figure out what amp to buy for gigs/ rehearsals... it’s going to be tough once I hate tube amps with all my heart and everything else sounds crappy!
Thanks guys! Love your show!
The 65 has a C12K 100w 99db
64 handwired C12Q 35w 93db
I think the C12N is a nice balance between the two and adds a bit more character. 50w 97db. Plus it makes the amp weigh a little bit less and still take pedals well. Those Jensen’s sound great once broken in.
Great vid 👍
Mick: “do your own blindfold test”
Dan: “but don’t drive that way”
Mick: “well...”
*sudden edit for legal purposes*
🤣
Well spotted!
Dan's playing at 33mins in is stunningly beautiful.
I've trying to work it out but not even close. Someone needs to create an auto tab app...
Surely that exists!? We did it as an April fool’s gag about 20 years ago in Guitarist. It must have come true by now. The Saxatone and the Acoustitone Plectrum maybe not.
And my fave - they made one up before my time about Leo being stationed in the UK in the war. So there were prototype Tadcasters and Doncasters kicking about. Still makes me laugh. Hahahahaha!
Ps. Yes indeed! He plays that stuff soooooo well. All that harmonic noodling is totally paying off!
I dream about it since 1993. I guess we will have it some 5/10 years. Cheers
Thx for the review. I have owned a Supersonic 22, a Rivera Era Deluxe Reverb, a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and a Tonemaster Deluxe. All in all I prefer the Tonemaster. In a live situation it sounds very close to the DRRI with the added benefits of attenuation, weight and IR's. Also It stay clean at 6.5 where as the DRRI begins to crunch at 5.
HELL YESSSSSSSSS. I wonder what Mick and Dan would think about the 68 custom DR and 64 DR reissue in the mix as well. Great episode guys.
Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue - my favourite amp! 🎛❤️ Sounding great guys!
“Oh blinkin heck”- Dan realizing he has super strength
Life too short for a short RUclips videos with no in depth analysis - this video comparison was perfect!
Thanks to both of you for keeping me sane !
Excellent, all your guitars sounded excellent with the reissue. I loved the sound of the Gold top as well. The weird thing is I’ve tried the reissue at a jam and right off the bat , I didn’t get along with it but I did get on with the 68 reissue. My main amp is the Supersonic 22 which Goes along better with the kind of music that I play.
Nice! 68 bit more pushed sounding, especially in the upper mids from memory. Drives a bit easier too I think. Mick here. Kinda like having a Klon on, but real subtle. Sweet!
I have the Tonemaster, it is the most wonderful gigging amp. I run an always on Super Sweet first, then a few effects. Pushing air at stage volume with a band, there is no player who would not be thrilled with the tone, Fender did an amazing job with the amp. And the lightweight + reliability is unreal. For a working man’s rig, I am really happy, and I will not go back to tubes. I love the original Deluxe also, but the Tonemaster is the better amp for me.
I’m sure the punters cannot know the difference and no slipped discs for you. A winner all round.
Fair nuff but you may be a little premature on the reliabity bit?
@Luke I guess you must be from the future then!
@Luke I'm not saying because they're Digital they wont last! Im saying they are built to a price and are even cheaper than Fenders PCB amps and they dont last very well.
@Luke usually yeah.
one of your videos i couldn’t even de-attach from the screen.. hehehe..
thanks so much for this.
This amp has been my fav for years & years.. and it proves itself, once again..
The Tele sounds absolutely incredible (and Dan’s playing evidently, as well as Mick with the strat) .
i’m a Tele guy, so i‘ve got to stick to my sound..and bloody hell..this is THE amp to get. Good luck with the ‘digital’ era attempt..
i am a total tech nerd, but damn that REAL tube amp just sings.
thanks again for this,
and thank you for the channel, as with videos like this, i am able to drool a little bit over these tones, while i wait to be able to afford the beast ;) .
cheers from Portugal
Thanks guys for a stellar video as always! I'm a complete tone and tube amp snob, and for convenience I own a Tonemaster Deluxe. Here's how you can get it closer on the cheap- 1) use an EQ pedal to add in more mids or 2) if you have handy, put a Tech 21 Blonde or a Mooer Fender or Two Rock (or even their Koch) last in the chain, again boosting mids. Especially with option #2 above you'll be very impressed. Yes it's $100 more, but it gives you every single (and significant) advantage that the Tonemaster has over a Deluxe, which for a gigging musician is infinitely more versatile. Another option is to replace the speaker with a Celestion style speaker like a WGS ET-65. More work and doesn't sound as Deluxe-esque but sounds incredible. The Royer cab sim is better than 90% of micing setups a gigging musician will encounter but of course you can just use your own IRs for different venues. YMMV. Thanks!
That spring tank in the DRRI seems to be making a huge difference to my ears.
Alex Moll I agree, I could deal with a Midrange difference with pedals, EQ etc, but the reverb presence/tail trail is wrong to my ear and that reverb is why I would have a DRRI to begin with. To me that reverb circuit and tank are it’s Trademark sound.
That was the thing when I AB:d them. It was the spring reverb that sounded off to me in the TM
Great video! I tried one today but didn't like the jensen speakers but the cream colored one has a Celestron speaker that sounds much better imo.
I really enjoyed the pedals you used in this episode especially since many of them are or have been on my board.
DRRI was one of my first amps... had one for a very long time... love it.
The one element that I've always loved on the actual fender tube amps is the reverb. I can never match the sound of an actual reverb tank with a pedal. You can really crank the reverb and somehow it sounds huge, but out of the way. It even comes across in this video, the reverb on the 65 Deluxe just sounds bigger and better
Check out a pedal called the Element. It's a spring reverb tank that attaches to a pedal and can be mounted on your board!
If you crank the reverb in a drri, you’re getting more gain as the recovery stage of the reverb will break up and compress, giving you a “bigger” feeling sound!
Yes, to me the Reverb is big part of the Deluxe sound. Without reverb it sounds kinda dull .
To me they were very close until the reverb was engaged. The Deluxe Reverb sounded like a great tube amp with a spring reverb and the Tone Master was missing that something to me.
Truly excellent work! If there were Emmys for gear videos, this would win.
Glad you where convinced by DeLuxe Reverb RI. I have one and have asked a tech to put a bright cap switch On/Off cause it's sometime too bright with single coils for me. No loop, no nothing but Delay and Verb sound fine in front of it, so it's simple to use. Very dynamic amp. Was disapointed by the Verb quality of mine.
I love these 2, but knew Dan was going to say he could hear a big difference haha. I would have loved to have seen this as a blind test. Would be great if you guys could do this with the Twins.
I’m quite the skeptic but I have to admit that the difference was very obvious. Blindfold tests will certainly yield quite embarrassing results from time to time but hardly this time.
Foregoing the lightness of the neodymium speaker and adding a darker sounding one such as a C-Rex would probably bring them closer though. If not comparing I think most would be pretty happy with the TM though.
@@smutsharry Don't necessarily disagree, I just think the blind test reassures the audience that the eyes aren't, in fact, playing a part. No shade to these 2, but I truly believe if you you gave them 2 tube amps and said 1 was digital they'd convince themselves they could hear the digital aspects. Again, no shade to them, that's something I'd probably fall for too. The blind test just removes all doubt and I think you'd learn something useful.
Did you happen to see the blind pedal test w/ Tom Bukuvac? He nailed a lot of them, proving he has a great ear, but his favorite version of a pedal was one he previously said he didn't like, the mini version. I have to imagine removing the eyes from the equation got a different result than everyone expected. Again, he nailed a lot of the pedals, so it's not saying it's all bs, just sometimes it can be!
Dans face test...
When playing Deluxe Reverb 65 = 😍
When playing the ToneMaster = 🤔
Only one winner. Great show.
Exactly my thoughts too, Dan tried but could not hide his true feelings in this comparison! Awesome Video Guys!!!!
The goldtop Les Paul sounds like butter ! Great playing on the Intro Mick !!!!
Excellent video! I’ve been playing rock n roll electric guitar for 50 years (yes, 50). Acquired TM Deluxe Reverb when they were first introduced. Loved it so much I bought another (I don’t care how much they cost). Keep one at rehearsal room, the other I use at gigs. I use Fulltone OCD when I need a high gain sound. And it’s LOUD‼️🔥🎸. Only 23 pounds ‼️‼️