They got so excited that they could, they never stopped to think if they should. .....but obviously you definitely should own both of these amplification boxes.
Thanks guys for the great show! Technical Correction: the Princeton differs from the deluxe reverb (and the other larger blackface amps) in more ways than just the power supply and speaker. The Princeton uses a 12ax7 cathodyne phase inverter, while the others use a 12at7 long tail pair PI. Makes a big difference. Also the Princeton uses a bias modulating tremolo, which is a very “round” or “swampy” sound. The deluxe modulates the preamp signal using a bulb and a light dependent resistor giving it sharper peaks and valleys.
If “power supply” includes the power and output transformers, then yes those are big differences. The bigger Deluxe Reverb output transformer is the primary reason for the higher wattage rating. The bigger power transformer provides a “stiffer” power rail to the entire amp. Don’t forget, the Super Reverb was virtually the identical circuit as the Deluxe Reverb but with HUGE transformers and four 10” speakers. Oh and the size/power of the output transformer has a LOT to do with bass and clean headroom. A long-tailed pair phase inverter adds some gain, while the concertina (cathodyne) does not. So the Deluxe Reverb has one more gain stage, albeit not close to the gain of a normal 12AX7 gain stage. In addition, the Princeton’s PI can produce some ugly distortion at times while pushing a long-tailed pair is almost always musical. All that said, I had the pleasure of working on and blue printing an all original 1964 Princeton Reverb. Built a clone/derivative based on that amp and love it. I like bias vary tremolo better than just diddling the preamp signal.
Possibly one of my favorite non artist shows. The joy and infectious enthusiasm oozed out of my TV and into my heart. Truly wonderful. Always a highlight in my week. So grateful to you guys.
Interesting bits and go-to sections… 0:00 Intro playing 1:34 What are we doing today? 5:50 Deluxe Reverb volume 4 to 7 8:11 Princeton Reverb volume 4 to 7 11:20 Les Paul, clean headroom? 17:20 Headroom with Strat and Casino 22:11 Princeton and Blackguard Telecaster 24:20 Princeton Inputs 1 & 2 25:53 Deluxe headroom with Strat 30:11 Princeton on 10 with Strat 31:58 Princeton on 10 with Les Paul 33:50 Princeton on 10 with Tele 35:50 Cranking the Deluxe to 10 37:10 Both amps on 10 and cleanup 40:44 Which One? Round 1 41:50 Overdrive pedals? 43:00 Princeton & Browne Protein 46:00 Deluxe & Browne Protein 47:15 Both amps & Tube Screamer 48:10 Both amps & Tone Bender 54:35 Reverb & Tremolo, both amps 1:00:30 Modulation, delay and wet-dry 1:05:40 Closing thoughts
Guys. I’ve never smiled so much watching one of your videos as I did today. The first 42 minutes without a single pedal engaged covered everything I could ever want in a “perfect” tone from clean to dirty across multiple guitars and pickup combinations. Stellar and fun! Thank you!
Everyone else noticed no pedals needed/ used for most of the show. On one of my setups I have two Princeton’s and a Champ wet dry wet with a boost and two delays going to either amp and that’s all. One is brownface Princeton, the other a blackface and I can setup the Joey Landreth alternating trem experiment Dan did.
We reflect on that. With smaller amps it almost seems a shame to add OD pedals. And then comes the trade off. Not loud enough, bass end flubs out. Turns to Two Rock and Klon and remembers why Big Amps Make My Heart Melt. :0)
side bar about Jim Campilongo. I took lessons with him here in Brooklyn for years and his sound is truly remarkable and something to see in person. That said, his main amo is a 66, i believe, that he plays out mostly in NYC. Mind you these are trio gigs with extraordinarily dynamic jazz players and in places like 55 bar which, when 50 people are in there, is incredibly packed. And yes he is mic'd. But here is the catch, when he travels for gigs he'll request a newer deluxe reverb for backline for the reasons you discovered here - headroom. He prefers the newer deluxe reissues to the newer princetons reissues which he thinks have a weak spot in the low end. Jim also cranks all controls to ten on his amps and controls everything from the volume knob, like Roy Buchanan and the vibroluxes. At home he also has this crazy looking old 12 watt gibson from the 60s with the wildest trem sound, that and a vibro champ + an old deluxe. Interestingly his most recent guitar is a hahn built strat. Jim has a 62 custom color strat he never takes out and is one of the best ive ever seen/played. The 59 toploader tele is clearly THE guitar but he loves strats too. Just some extra context on the tele master and his choices. Cheers guys, brilliant stuff as always
Guys I have to say I think we sometimes forget that you are both just phenomenal players. You have brought so much to the guitar community. Thanks for a wonderful show and you were on fire this episode. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@embreesmith7613 right. Haha. Cloth wire, it was the cheapest at the time. Haha. It's a premium now but the plastic coated wires from the old time was actually more expensive. People forget that.
The good news is we’ve learned that we can get both! They’re different enough that we’d be better off owning both. Princeton brings the glass to the Tele and the Deluxe brings the middle-meat to the Strat. Phew! I’m glad I don’t have to choose!
"One, the other, or both?" Come on boys! The laws of GAS dictate that the correct answer to any gear related question is: BOTH! And as always, the best guitar show on the web. Love it!
Actually had my first gig since the Pandemic last night, and did it with the Princeton. Small room, totally loud enough at 5 and clean enough that overdrives were actually useful. Amazing.
@@jamesroy9182 also have a 79 silverface! My grandpa bought it new in 79 for... get this: amplifying his FLUTE for playing with big bands. About a decade ago I wanted to buy my first amp after learning guitar for a few years on a trash Walmart amp. My mom says: "oh btw I think I have my dads old amp somewhere in the basement if you want to see if it works" lo and behold, a 79 Princeton reverb underneath a mountain of stuff. Absolutely adore the amp, plays fucking beautifully!! Cranking that amp to 10 and pulling the boost is nuts, it's so loud and distorted lol. But it's a cool feature!
Thats a cool story. My sister found an old Fender amp in her attic that says Princeton inside the back, but Harvard on the front. It doesn’t work very well, so she lets her toddler use it as something to sit on to go sledding with. It’s the cutest thing. You should see it.
That was a great little review. I own both of these amps myself, but the best thing is that my girlfriend, no musical background, enjoys watching your show, too. She finds you both very real and entertaining. You do seem like two guys I'd love to sit down and have a beer with. Keep up the great work. Have purchased many things based on your recommendations. 🙂
Perhaps the pinacle of tele into a Princeton tone has to be Jim Campilongo. He's definitely worth checking out. There are videos of him demoing the Princetons for Fender, but have a gander at some of his live playing too.
I think this is a great vindication of 10" speakers which too often in the guitar world get brushed off as "lacking bottom end". So many guitarists are obsessed with bass and it's ridiculous.
I prefer 10" speakers, but the 10" speakers usually used in vintage amps are Jensen P10R or C10R, which are weak in a one speaker application - they work great in amps with more than one speaker. I replace the P10R speakers in my vintage Gibson amps with Weber 10F150 or 10A150, which make them sound much louder and fuller, solid bass, smoother highs, sounds like a 12" speaker but with quicker response and tighter lows. The old Jensen speakers sound great at low volume, but fart-out when you turn it up, highs can get harsh too. The larger voice coil Jensen speakers with heavier magnets sound much better to me, the "Q", "P", and especially "N" sized speakers are great! The newer "vintage Jensen" speakers made in Italy (Recotron?) are different speakers, even though they look the same. Some of them sound good according to some people, but many people don't seem to like them. I stick to Weber, Celestion, WGS, or Eminence....or Altec, JBL, and EV SRO - speaker fiend here......................!
Onya Dan! my ears absolutely light up when the bits of expanded/jazz vocabulary turn up in your playing. I'm no jazz player in any real sense but love that extra level of artistry. It's a special sort of intrigue! Big up from Brighton :)
Just got a Princeton this month to commemorate the completion of a 1 year no booze challenge. Now this!? I'll be viewing this one a few times. Thanks fellas!
I've owned both... an original '64 Princeton, and a Deluxe from the first year of reissue, and absolutely loved what each did in their own way. An experiment you may wan to try, and one which I found extremely gratifying, is to plug each amp into different speaker cabinets. Try it and you'll find an even broader perspective of the tonal genius of the amps.
Greatest "most perfect" Guitar Amp ever made. Perfect size, weight, power & Pristine Cleans - too. Fender hit a home-run, when they made the Blackface Princeton Reverb.
My kids love dan as do my wife and I but he is the very embodiment of child like glee. Hope he reads this because he's an absolute rock star in my home. Big luv!
Watched this video this morning, went and bought a Princeton this afternoon. I'm with Dan on this one, they really are magical and their own thing. Great video lads!
If you want the best of both, try getting the Limited Edition Princeton with the 12” Celestion Alnico Speaker. It has all the tone of the Princeton but with extra power and headroom when you wat to add pedals.
And if you're really wanting to crunch up a Les Paul, BF isn't the best generation for that. It does have more bells and whistles, and that reverb unit CANNOT be overstated. As stated elsewhere, I find that the one true companion of the BF Deluxe is the Strat. Their respective EQs have a love-fest together.
I run my Princeton mic’d on tilt back legs at my feet pointed up at the guitar. At only about 3 feet. It’s easy to achieve a light manageable feedback that seems to increase sustain without high volume.
Me too and this all happens at a level where I’m not asked to turn down. Princeton + SM57 = Happy Days … and everyone can hear it … not just the poor few unlucky enough to be standing ringt in front of the amp. And it weighs less than a Deluxe.
No question for me, but the combo of that Tele through BOTH amps while they were BOTH cranked is the best OD tone I’ve ever heard on TPS. That’s the OD tone that I’m totally drawn to. Just glorious.
That's because amp overdrive sounds far better than pedals. :D ;) .... which is a shame for this channel. lol. .... I joke, but I agree.. it sounded amazing.
I currently have the the Princeton Reissue with the factory installed Celestine 12” (G12M Greenback), and the closest I’ve come to those tones while still playing at volumes that a venue would allow is by pairing this 12” Greenback loaded Princeton with the Timmy. That combo or pairing is my current go to, and then I can bring one guitar with single coils (which is my preference) and one with humbuckers, and I can cover most of the ground I’m interested in for most gigs.
I'm so glad to see a Princeton on the show again! A 68 Custom PR has been my main (only) amp for years. Perfect for low-volume at home and gets nice and squishy playing with drums or a pit orchestra.
I have both. my princeton reverb has a 12 in it though. And I don’t have stock speakers in either. For clean playing, with no pedals, especially with a strat, I love the princeton the most and you have even more bottom end with a 12. But I prefer the DR for all around versatility and seems to take pedals/overdrive more pleasantly to me. They are both great. I prefer the trem on the princeton as well.
The Princeton is the more "intimate" version of the deluxe. Im a huge fan of the Princeton. If I need volume I can mic it. I own a special edition Knotty Pine Princeton. Pine cab with 12" alnico creamback speaker and it KILLS.
I have the same amp. That 12” alnico creamback turns it into a baby deluxe. Mine doesn’t even break up until the volume is almost at 7 with single coils. I put JJ’s in the power section for a little while and it wouldn’t break up until the volume was on 8. I have tung sol’s in it now. It is also a monster pedal platform so the extra headroom is never an issue. Tone bender Fuzz, Klone, rams head, timmy… any decent gain pedal opens turns the knotty pine Princeton into something magical. Of course you have to dial back the bass at higher volumes because it still has the underpowered transformer so the bass gets flubby.
I have an actual vintage 65 Princeton I bought 30 years ago for $100. The guy sold it because it had "no distortion". LOL. I've gone from using 50 watt Marshall half stacks for club gigs in the 90s to the Princeton nowadays and it's perfect. LOVE that amp like no other!
I modded my Princeton to get the best of both worlds, it has a 12" speaker and a Deluxe Reverb power transformer. Still have the character and tone of the Princeton with a little more headroom and a little better at keeping up with the low end at higher volumes. I call it the Prindecon Deluxe. Though I am super interested in the new 40 watt Pro Reverbs.
I run my Princeton through a 12” 75 W creamback in an orange closed back cab some times and I also run it through a 2 12 open back cab with a 25W green back & a 25W vintage 30. I also run it in a 4 12 cab with old 25W jensons. I love it though every speaker combination I’ve tried.
The great Tele master Jim Campilongo plays straight into a Princeton on 10 and just manipulates his volume control. It's remarkably versatile, as any of his records will show you.
I just got a 65 Princeton. Tried it at the store and was amazed. I tried the 65 reverb but found the fidelity to be much better on the Princeton. I got it to pair with my AC30, but the Princeton is so good, I have not got around to pairing the amps. I also don't understand the low end but its pretty darn great and will be a welcomed addition to the AC jingly bits.
Dan, if you like the Princeton you should check out the Vintage 15 by Vintage Sound Amps. Fifteen watt Princeton circuit (they also make the V20, a 20 watt version), with premium component point-to-point wiring, 12 inch Warehouse G12C/S speaker, Twin sized (17 inch) reverb tank (vs the typical 9 inch tank), reverb dwell control to adjust reverb decay, adjustable mid-control instead of a fixed one, dove-tailed solid pine cabinet, stand-by switch and external bias points. It is a tone MONSTER!!! I run mine wet with either a Marshall Origin 20 Head or a Vox AC4 into a greenback loaded 1x12 as my dry amp...soooooo good! Loved today's show - Thanks for all you do, lads!
Holy shmoe. Dan’s unadulterated joy when he brings the volume up to ten on the Princeton is just so pure and infectious! And Mick is running the experiment in such a precise, meticulous ‘Mick’ way! But most importantly, the enjoyment you each get from playing to the amps’ strengths is so obvious, and everything sounds so glorious! Impossible not to join in on the elation. I never even considered a Fender amp (I have a Victory v40 that I bought basically after watching Mick’s introduction of it and I love it to pieces, and the next target is probably an AC30 type amp to make a Rhett Dry Wig), but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t hop to the Anderton’s website “just to get an idea of the prices” on these..... Brightened up my whole weekend you have! PS: that TB-2W! Can’t believe I couldn’t find one in time. Here’s hoping more will be made available somehow... *TPS rules!!!*
I have a DRRi from the first run of reissues, I think '93 or '94. When I first got it in 2012 or so I thought it was broken. At the time, I had only played high head room amps with solid state rectifiers. The squish from the tube rec is unreal. And it took my a year of gigging with it to learn how to adjust my attack when playing lower strings (especially with humbuggies) so that I didn't crap out the low end with a heavy hand. But it was worth the education.
Great video. I preferred the Deluxe all the way though, including amp drive only. The fact that it has a 12" speaker, more headroom and is a better pedal platform seals the deal. Just as well as I have a 65' DRRI (FSR with a Jensen P12-Q, for what its worth). The PRRI seems to have a slightly more fizzy top end.
I’ve got a 12” tone tubby speaker in my ‘68 PRRI, and it doesn’t start breaking up till just after 7. And if I could turn bass to negative 3, the lows would probably still sound thick
The playing in this episode is so inspired and inspiring! I played my Suhr S style guitar through a Princeton twice recently in a live setting; the only two times I’ve ever played a Princeton haha. I did notice that having the volume at 4 was too quiet for stage volume and 5 was a little too loud for the sound guy, but 4.5 ended up working well. At 4.5 I still had a fairly clean tone, but I got some awesome sounds out of it using my pedalboard! Glorious tones on this episode, friends!
I’ve had both. I prefer the Princeton. I mostly play at home but I have other cabs so I can use 12” speakers. I also put a larger mercury magnetics output transformer in it. It feels like it has more headroom closer to the deluxe
Seeing you guys enjoy these amps is great. Having owned both, I prefer the Princeton at low volumes, where it sounds fatter, and the Deluxe for gain/overdrive where it is tighter and less fuzzy than the Princeton.
I find the larger cabinet and speaker in the Deluxe sounds fuller and better even when played at low volume for home playing. The Princeton Reverbs I had (mid-1970's versions) just didn't sound as good to me, but if they had been tuned-up with better speakers I would have liked them more perhaps. My DR clone of a 1964 with Weber 10F150 sounds awesome - I only use it at home, usually at about 4-5 on the volume, I just turn the guitar down and it still sounds great. A Super Reverb played quietly sounds great too, you don't have to crank them loud to sound good, unless you want that power tube overdrive - I prefer warm clean tones myself.
Got a Deluxe and a Ox Box... and I nearly sold all of my overdrive pedals. Everything comes from the amp and a finely tuned speaker emulation from the Ox. One of my favourite settings must be the Deluxe on 5.5 into some kind of vintage Marshall 4x12 cab. Adjust volume knob to taste for clean (ish) sounds. Instant pleasure!
Great show guys! Having owned both Fender reissue '65 Deluxe Reverb and '65 Princeton Reverb amplifiers, I was never truly satisfied with the base tone of either amp, even after swapping speakers and doing the bright cap mod for the DR. For what you pay for these amps, the rather basic build quality, and the persistent cabinet rattle were simply unforgivable issues. I found my grail Blackface amp in the Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50, and of course, I know you can buy 2 Deluxe Reverbs and a Princeton Reverb for that 1 M/B amp, but I think the Fillmore is where it's at for all the tones you're able to pull out of these Fender amps, minus the tremolo effect.
I been gigging my 68 custom silverface Princeton amp, stock as it comes for about six years now. I play mostly small bars around Maryland with the mic un-mic'd in most situations. My sweet spot is between 3 and 4. I also have a Princeton in British Racing Green that came stock with a 12 inch green back in it. That amp needs to go to about 5 to get to the sweet spot. The speaker is much less efficient. All mine had tilt-back legs. I own a few deluxe reverbs in different configurations but my go to has always been the priceton--it just cuts through nicely. Nice video gents. Cheers.
I have to say, this is is the best sounding video I've heard you guys produce. Like everyone watching your channel, I'm always chasing tone ... but these are my two main amps - I should just try and plug straight in! Thanks for the reminder, these amps sound terrific.
I’ve gigged with both the handwired Deluxe and Princetons. Though I grew up on a Blackface Deluxe, these days I find the Princeton with a Gold 10” speaker absolutely nails it for me.
@@ThatPedalShow well worth it - increased perceived headroom and a more punchy sound. At least when replacing the stock Jensen in the handwired Princeton.
+1 in this. A well broken in gold in a Princeton is a pretty magical thing. I’ve toured and played huge festivals with one and it sounded amazing the whole time.
I have a '68 Princeton reissue and it's really great. I really like the sort of flubby bass end when it's a bit Neil Young-ish in it's overdrive. But, I have a vintage Super Reverb too so I've got it all covered I guess.
I have a '65 Princeton (Fawn Tolex/12" Greenback). It's the amp I always wanted and never knew. Here's a trick to better use it as a pedal platform: Set it with bass and treble at 0, according to the Fender tonestack, that setting is almost at flat response. You get a lot of signal attenuation this way in the pre-amp gain, so, you can set it louder and the mid scoop is less of a problem. I use mine almost exclusively for metal and rock, paired with my Boss BD-2, and it just works.
@@guypaulthibault6320 You're very welcome. I recommend using it like this with gain pedals to give it some colour, since the tonestack of the amp it's basically bypassed. Happy days.
Nice comparisons. I like the way you clearly upped the volume on each amp. The Princeton sounded weak at 4, but really began to impress at 5, then 6, then 7. My experience with Princetons with 10” speakers is the speakers kind of “fart” on the bassier notes as the volume increases. Not so with the Deluxe Reverbs with their 12 inch speaker. But love them both!
Gents, I think you do some of your best work on amps. I enjoyed every minute of this episode and really appreciate how you dissected each amp at various volume levels across multiple guitar/pickup combinations. I have a Princeton and I still learned a lot!
I grew up playing on silent or near-silent stages, and I've never really gotten to experience cranking a classic amp like that. I'd love to hear it in person!
On my Princeton Reverb Reissue, I set my volume between 4.5 - 5 (max) this is with a rockabilly rock n roll Trio. Unmic'ed works fine for indoor venues my band performs at, mic'ed for larger venues and outside
Wow! Love that sound with the FilterTrons. I love FilterTrons in general, but through an overdriving Princeton, they sound 99% as good as they do through an overdriving AC30 or Matchless
Two things in my rig that never change---a single pickup '59 Gretsch Tennessean with a TV Jones Magna'Tron through an original '65 BFDR. Speaker is non-original, modded for reverb on both channels and regrilled a few years ago. Volume on 4. The sound is biblical.
Owned both the 68 custom deluxe reverb and the 1964 Princeton reissue, deluxe worked better with pedals but was so loud I couldn't get it to the sweet spot without overpowering the drummer, so I bought the Princeton and had exactly same problem, however running it clean with my es 355 is a wonderful experience, still can't bring myself to leave my pedal board at home during a gig though, come to rely on those things too much 😎 cool video anyway, fender amps are the best!
Sitting here watching this on a weekend away in Princeton BC, probably not the same Princeton these amps were named after - pop. 2200 plus one goat. Went to trade a guitar about a year ago and the bloke had a silverface Princeton through which we tried both of the guitars on the block. Hands down the best sound I have ever heard from a guitar amp. Ended up trying to talk him into selling me both the guitar and the amp. No luck. But what a lovely thing they are.
1.05.15: I’ve spent a lot of time getting the “hello” sweet spot moment with ‘more better’ pedals (probably could’ve bought a house in the country with a large garden and just turn the amp up in the first place). Apart from the absence of trouser-flapping air moving, it’s still a good feeling. Currently running a wet-dry 22w Swart Antares with a Morgan JS12, both on quite low apartment volume and with any, or a mix of, the following victims in front: Thorpy Warthog (gain and calibre down at 9 o’clock, volume and treble to taste); ODR/Wampler Belle/Shanks ODS; Jimmy/Jan Ray, all the usual boosts (Jackson Prism, Thorpy Fat Gen, Hamstead Ascent) and so on. I get the best results turning up this rig a bit too loud for apartment volume but knocking back the vol on the guitars a bit and playing with dynamics (as opposed to full attack with the picking hand). To my ear, it sounds like the cranked sweet spot where the clean and gain sounds are both present, almost in parallel. I’m not suggesting that it’s better than smashing 90, 100, 105 dB in a rehearsal or gig, or that it would work if you favour metal, but for bluesy/Mayer/Ford stuff the tone is fab and the sensation is that proper ‘edge of breakup’. I think that getting a good sound in a condo is a science in itself, but it’s worth it for me and, in contrast to Mick, I would always take this route for lowish volume home playing over the digital solutions. Great show as always, chaps.
Thank you gentlemen! I paused the video, plugged straight into my Princeton Reverb derivative and turned the volume up. I’ve been building a pedal board lately and had the volume fixed at 3.5-4 for months. Truly bypassing all of the pedals and turning the volume up reminds me of how good tube amp distortion sounds. With my amp, there are some weird artifacts above 8 (probably the phase inverter) but at 7-1/2 it really is glorious. Hope the neighbors couldn’t hear it … P.S. reverb tanks are not all created equal. The tank in my amp produces a drowning swamp at “6” even with a Dwell control that can reduce the signal going into the tank. That’s not a bad thing at all! The first tank I put into it was just ok, but this one is awesome. Also - how the power tubes are biased can affect the strength of the tremolo. Hint: hotter is not necessarily better. Finally, tweaking 1 or 2 capacitors can slow down the tremolo range a lot and is a very nice mod.
Wow! Well that was a revelation (actually a number of them). Seemed like you both played a bit differently than "usual" with these amps. Really awesome - thanks! I had been decided on a Deluxe - now . . . uh oh.
I absolutely love the blackface amps. The Princeton Reverb will always be my favorite amp due to its ability to not only put out a "pure" tone, but also a very percussive tone. I swear that the Jenson-style speakers make your low-E string sound like a kick drum and your top strings sound snappy, like a snare. I'm exaggerating, of course. Oh, and that reverb. Gorgeous.
I love my PRRI. I replaced the P10Q w a Weber 50 watt 10 inch just to give me more headroom. That speaker in that amp is amazing. I’ve gigged this amp almost everywhere. I love getting to crank it on about 7. Brings so many overtones out of my tele it’s amazing. It’s like they are one. I find I rarely hit more than my tube screamer for overdrive.
@@JeremyAult12 I know what youre talking about! I played a PRRI with 10A150s 50w and I was blown away. In a live situation, they have a lot of body. Since I record, I stick with the stock Jensons because of the scooped mids. Anything else will muddy up the mix. But i found that once the Jensons break in, omg the different types of harmonics/overtones you get are amazing.
My fav (and currently only) Princeton, an early ‘68 non-reverb version, really comes alive at ~7 on the volume. Treble at 6, bass at 3-3.5. It’s a quieter, less gainy amp than the reverb version due to one fewer 12AX7 stage in the preamp (not counting the reverb circuit). It still sounds really good dialed back to 5 too, which is how I use it with pedals, and at that setting makes a terrific home amp.
Thanks guys. Great vid once again. So interesting to hear these amps in context of single coil to HB. You can tell they were voiced with the Fender lineup in mind. Amazing amps historically also as they were both designed pre-CBS and made their way through late 60's. I have a whole new appreciation for these amps. In gratitude!
This video affirms for me that the Tele is a jack of all trades and master of them all. Great video guys and I appreciate you making such high quality viewing content.
yes, I couldn't believe how great the DRRI sounded on 8-10 with a Les Paul, awesome lead sound (no pedals). Had never done it before and only did it in the recording studio as an experiment. Ended doing all the recording with no pedals. My experience with vintage Fenders up to that point is that don't break up nicely (Blackface Bassman the exception).
I love this middle age ‘blokey’ thing they’ve got about gear & instruments. I could never get this vibe before, as it’s usually blokes talking about football in this vein. However, I can fully get into the whole vibe these two fellas get. Essential viewing, and empathetic enthusing 👍🎸
I have the 64 reissue hand-wired, just an incredible amp. But I changed the speaker to a Jensen Alnico PN12. I also have the 65 reissue princeton, changed the speaker to an alnico jenson P10R. Beautiful vintage sounds with all the fender chime!
Yeah, so did I. The stock Jensen of my Princeton Reissue was farting permanently, so I replaced it with the Jensen P10R, which, by the way, Fender is using in their handwired Princetons. That was a pretty good investment.
A treble booster into that cranked Princeton would sound amazing, I think. I watched Howard Gee demo Catalinbread's Naga Viper into a Princeton on 10 and it was one of the best sounds I've ever heard.
I'll confirm this suspicion. I run a Strymon Sunset on the treble boost setting with a bit of drive and tone dialed in right into my Princeton 65 and it sounds blissful. Telecaster on the neck pickup, I get lost for hours noodling and get no work done, but I'm in heaven.
Funnily enough, I find that Gibson style guitars sound best with American Fender style amps. And that Fender style guitars sound best with British Vox, Hiwatt, etc. style amps. Just my personal preference. One goes for the full frequency thing and the other goes for sitting tightly in the mix. Both great!!!Wowie wow beautiful sounds.
I agree so much with this statement; my 335 sounds nice and full with a 65 princeton, whereas my tele and strats sound thin and brittle in that same amp (except for the neck pu of the strat). Gibson guitars with HBs are well complemented by scooped amps, and trebly single coil fender guitars are well complemented by mid focused amps (british voiced amps, tweed amps)
Well done demo. I'm from the States and have a owned a few of both of these amps. I would always go with a Deluxe Reverb because they're a more versatile amp. Being able to use the non-reverb channel is also advantageous. I get why most prefer the Princeton more though. Both reissues sound decent. They really sounded best together. My favorite of these type of these amps are the Vibrolux Reverb & Pro Reverb. The 6L6 power tube is the deal for the Fender Reverb amps. The Pro & Vibrolux are the sweet spot.
0:04 question answered. Obvious answer, they have like 20 amps. No negativity intended, but imo you are disregarding an entire demographic of guitarists. Amp tones have their respective sounds at high volume but the same can be also said about low volume. I think you should demonstrate very low volume comparisons, ESPECIALLY when showing lower wattage amps. It is actually a very helpful experience!
What Mick says at 29:10 is right on the money for me. I have moved from one end of the spectrum, a 74 Vibrosonic Reverb, to the other, a 78 Princeton, and the kicker was that as lovely as the big old Vibrosonic is, I just don't use that kind of bottom end in a band mix. Either I am dialing out bass or the FOH engineer has already done it on their end! I find the Princeton just sits beautifully in the mix.
It's always great to see you guys having so much fun. I'm looking forward to the (surely they're coming now) next versions in this series: handwired PR/DR vs PCB PR/DR and this exact same video with the two hand-wireds.
I own two early 70's deluxe reverb amps that I run together. Both of them get to that sweet spot around 4.5-5. But very rarely see that kind of volume.
Ok so I have come back to this video I think a thousand times! I’m about to make my biggest investment on a tube amp and is being so hard to decide between these 2 amps! So hard to pick between them! Been at my local L&M here in Vancouver Canada with both side to side and I keep just debating which I should pick! But I think I’ll go for the 65 reverb deluxe just for the extra headroom since I have to cut it trough a drums, percussion section,bass violin, and keyboard player!!
@@ThatPedalShow also I mainly play with a strat and I feel the Deluxe has a sweet relationship with strats, by the way I’m not sure how religious are you about Tube Amps, but during 2020 I bought my first serious Solid state amp as a back up when my Hot rod broke, is the Quilter Tone Block 202 and is insane how much comes through such a compact design, they have a series of amps that apparently have a very close feel to Tube amps I’m throwing that here in case you are curious and open to tray something different. Thank you for all your mega informative content always with a pinch of good humor! Big fan here!
Crikey, there were some great sounds here. I confess I found myself being more aligned and alternatively not so much with the Deluxe. The Princeton is unique. I'd really like to hear the Princeton dimed with a treble booster, guys. Well done. Loved this.
Glad fender brought them back! In the ‘70s I started with a Princeton. Loved it so much. Struggled for a long time to find a comparable sounds. Current amps are Line 6 Bogner, Mesa Rectifier, Fender Devile…still can’t compare with the Princeton.
I run a ‘71, and ‘73 Princeton Reverbs in tandem. Hard not to be inspired. The tone/power/weight ratio is just ideal. I also run a couple modified 1990’s Trace Velocettes 10s (rigged to NOT explode), and they are like British AC15 inspired Princetons. Insane power/tone/weight ratios.
Time stamp 39:30. “All you need is fuzz”. I run my band on a pair of the 68 Custom Princetons - both on 4.5, treble on 8.5, bass on 1.5, reverb on 3. Did you guys notice how the reverb “ducks” on the Princeton, especially if you hit it hard with a ton of level? I use an old Keeley Java Boost and just flog them with level for my leads. Such an amazing sound.
![That Pedal Show Highlights Of 2024 [Yes, The End Of Year Clips Show]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Km0LwJMDWYI/mqdefault.jpg)
Dan looks like he's about to introduce us to a park that's been 65 million years in the making
Spared no expense
I wonder if perhaps you would be good enough to take a gas jeep, and bring back my telecaster.
They got so excited that they could, they never stopped to think if they should.
.....but obviously you definitely should own both of these amplification boxes.
Fender custom shop tele, carved from Jurassic amber, case covered in T-Rex leather.
@@Kennykoo65 Except saved some bucks on the cage holding cloned Marc Bolan of T.Rex...
Thanks guys for the great show!
Technical Correction: the Princeton differs from the deluxe reverb (and the other larger blackface amps) in more ways than just the power supply and speaker. The Princeton uses a 12ax7 cathodyne phase inverter, while the others use a 12at7 long tail pair PI. Makes a big difference. Also the Princeton uses a bias modulating tremolo, which is a very “round” or “swampy” sound. The deluxe modulates the preamp signal using a bulb and a light dependent resistor giving it sharper peaks and valleys.
Thanks!
If “power supply” includes the power and output transformers, then yes those are big differences. The bigger Deluxe Reverb output transformer is the primary reason for the higher wattage rating. The bigger power transformer provides a “stiffer” power rail to the entire amp. Don’t forget, the Super Reverb was virtually the identical circuit as the Deluxe Reverb but with HUGE transformers and four 10” speakers. Oh and the size/power of the output transformer has a LOT to do with bass and clean headroom.
A long-tailed pair phase inverter adds some gain, while the concertina (cathodyne) does not. So the Deluxe Reverb has one more gain stage, albeit not close to the gain of a normal 12AX7 gain stage. In addition, the Princeton’s PI can produce some ugly distortion at times while pushing a long-tailed pair is almost always musical.
All that said, I had the pleasure of working on and blue printing an all original 1964 Princeton Reverb. Built a clone/derivative based on that amp and love it. I like bias vary tremolo better than just diddling the preamp signal.
Possibly one of my favorite non artist shows. The joy and infectious enthusiasm oozed out of my TV and into my heart. Truly wonderful. Always a highlight in my week. So grateful to you guys.
Thank you Paul, for being here and for saying nice things! Glad you enjoyed it!
Interesting bits and go-to sections…
0:00 Intro playing
1:34 What are we doing today?
5:50 Deluxe Reverb volume 4 to 7
8:11 Princeton Reverb volume 4 to 7
11:20 Les Paul, clean headroom?
17:20 Headroom with Strat and Casino
22:11 Princeton and Blackguard Telecaster
24:20 Princeton Inputs 1 & 2
25:53 Deluxe headroom with Strat
30:11 Princeton on 10 with Strat
31:58 Princeton on 10 with Les Paul
33:50 Princeton on 10 with Tele
35:50 Cranking the Deluxe to 10
37:10 Both amps on 10 and cleanup
40:44 Which One? Round 1
41:50 Overdrive pedals?
43:00 Princeton & Browne Protein
46:00 Deluxe & Browne Protein
47:15 Both amps & Tube Screamer
48:10 Both amps & Tone Bender
54:35 Reverb & Tremolo, both amps
1:00:30 Modulation, delay and wet-dry
1:05:40 Closing thoughts
The way the Princeton breaks up is so musical. I had a ‘68 one, and it just sounded good.
Guys. I’ve never smiled so much watching one of your videos as I did today. The first 42 minutes without a single pedal engaged covered everything I could ever want in a “perfect” tone from clean to dirty across multiple guitars and pickup combinations. Stellar and fun! Thank you!
Everyone else noticed no pedals needed/ used for most of the show. On one of my setups I have two Princeton’s and a Champ wet dry wet with a boost and two delays going to either amp and that’s all. One is brownface Princeton, the other a blackface and I can setup the Joey Landreth alternating trem experiment Dan did.
We reflect on that. With smaller amps it almost seems a shame to add OD pedals.
And then comes the trade off. Not loud enough, bass end flubs out. Turns to Two Rock and Klon and remembers why Big Amps Make My Heart Melt. :0)
@@ThatPedalShow 43e3ereeeeewer3e22qaaxßßßßâ cc
side bar about Jim Campilongo. I took lessons with him here in Brooklyn for years and his sound is truly remarkable and something to see in person. That said, his main amo is a 66, i believe, that he plays out mostly in NYC. Mind you these are trio gigs with extraordinarily dynamic jazz players and in places like 55 bar which, when 50 people are in there, is incredibly packed. And yes he is mic'd. But here is the catch, when he travels for gigs he'll request a newer deluxe reverb for backline for the reasons you discovered here - headroom. He prefers the newer deluxe reissues to the newer princetons reissues which he thinks have a weak spot in the low end. Jim also cranks all controls to ten on his amps and controls everything from the volume knob, like Roy Buchanan and the vibroluxes. At home he also has this crazy looking old 12 watt gibson from the 60s with the wildest trem sound, that and a vibro champ + an old deluxe. Interestingly his most recent guitar is a hahn built strat. Jim has a 62 custom color strat he never takes out and is one of the best ive ever seen/played. The 59 toploader tele is clearly THE guitar but he loves strats too. Just some extra context on the tele master and his choices. Cheers guys, brilliant stuff as always
Justin, thanks SO much for this.
Wonderful insight man, thank you.
Guys I have to say I think we sometimes forget that you are both just phenomenal players. You have brought so much to the guitar community. Thanks for a wonderful show and you were on fire this episode. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Goes to show that Leo Fender was a friggin’ genius! Here we are more than 50 years later still in aww of what he designed!
@@embreesmith7613 even if he did, cheap doesn't mean bad. And in this case it's great
@@embreesmith7613 right. Haha. Cloth wire, it was the cheapest at the time. Haha. It's a premium now but the plastic coated wires from the old time was actually more expensive. People forget that.
I actually didn't know Leo had a hand in the amp designs... I definitely thought he was only on the guitar side of things
Octopus Ears The great thing about Leo was he listened to all the input/advice from the musicians who would stop by the factory.
@@Magic_Man916 guitars were his sideline actually.
The good news is we’ve learned that we can get both! They’re different enough that we’d be better off owning both. Princeton brings the glass to the Tele and the Deluxe brings the middle-meat to the Strat. Phew! I’m glad I don’t have to choose!
"One, the other, or both?" Come on boys! The laws of GAS dictate that the correct answer to any gear related question is: BOTH!
And as always, the best guitar show on the web. Love it!
We MUST use all this toys, -when they exist ! 1 law of gas!🎸📢🔊🎶
Actually had my first gig since the Pandemic last night, and did it with the Princeton. Small room, totally loud enough at 5 and clean enough that overdrives were actually useful. Amazing.
Greatest Amp ever made. I love mine. Nothing like a Blackface Fender Princeton Reverb.
@@michael_caz_nyc That may be! But mine's a 79 Silverface. EPIC.
One day I will find a musical use for the pull boost. I WILL IT BE SO
@@jamesroy9182 also have a 79 silverface! My grandpa bought it new in 79 for... get this: amplifying his FLUTE for playing with big bands. About a decade ago I wanted to buy my first amp after learning guitar for a few years on a trash Walmart amp. My mom says: "oh btw I think I have my dads old amp somewhere in the basement if you want to see if it works" lo and behold, a 79 Princeton reverb underneath a mountain of stuff.
Absolutely adore the amp, plays fucking beautifully!!
Cranking that amp to 10 and pulling the boost is nuts, it's so loud and distorted lol. But it's a cool feature!
@@m.s.35 Awesome story! Have a tech look it over so you get it at its best!
Thats a cool story. My sister found an old Fender amp in her attic that says Princeton inside the back, but Harvard on the front. It doesn’t work very well, so she lets her toddler use it as something to sit on to go sledding with. It’s the cutest thing. You should see it.
Dan from around the 32 minute mark - he's having such an incredible time playing and it's amazing to watch/hear. This was a fantastic episode.
That was a great little review. I own both of these amps myself, but the best thing is that my girlfriend, no musical background, enjoys watching your show, too. She finds you both very real and entertaining. You do seem like two guys I'd love to sit down and have a beer with. Keep up the great work. Have purchased many things based on your recommendations. 🙂
Perhaps the pinacle of tele into a Princeton tone has to be Jim Campilongo. He's definitely worth checking out. There are videos of him demoing the Princetons for Fender, but have a gander at some of his live playing too.
The ultimate counter to anyone who says a Princeton isn’t loud enough
Jim is a next level player. And his tone is always amazing.
Jim is also a sweetheart, a gentleman and a scholar.
I used to watch him upstairs at Paradise Lounge in SF all the time. Always amazing and sticks out in my memories.
Yes, anyone who pulls off Third Stone from the Sun with a Tele and a Princeton is to be seriously considered.
Dan’s hands behind Mick with the volume numbers are hilarious. Cheers from the Big Apple.
A couple of Adams Family moments with "the hand" creeping up.
I would love to see this exact video concept with the 68 custom versions. And really any other amps. Love this concept.
“Wrong’s a strong word.”
“It is. Let’s do it!”
…This is why I love TPS 🖤
My gigging rig for past 6 yrs is dual Princeton 65 blackfaces. Sounds fantastic, easy to transport, takes pedals real well.
I think this is a great vindication of 10" speakers which too often in the guitar world get brushed off as "lacking bottom end". So many guitarists are obsessed with bass and it's ridiculous.
I prefer 10" speakers, but the 10" speakers usually used in vintage amps are Jensen P10R or C10R, which are weak in a one speaker application - they work great in amps with more than one speaker. I replace the P10R speakers in my vintage Gibson amps with Weber 10F150 or 10A150, which make them sound much louder and fuller, solid bass, smoother highs, sounds like a 12" speaker but with quicker response and tighter lows. The old Jensen speakers sound great at low volume, but fart-out when you turn it up, highs can get harsh too. The larger voice coil Jensen speakers with heavier magnets sound much better to me, the "Q", "P", and especially "N" sized speakers are great! The newer "vintage Jensen" speakers made in Italy (Recotron?) are different speakers, even though they look the same. Some of them sound good according to some people, but many people don't seem to like them. I stick to Weber, Celestion, WGS, or Eminence....or Altec, JBL, and EV SRO - speaker fiend here......................!
Onya Dan! my ears absolutely light up when the bits of expanded/jazz vocabulary turn up in your playing. I'm no jazz player in any real sense but love that extra level of artistry. It's a special sort of intrigue! Big up from Brighton :)
Ah, thanks Sam, I’m trying! 🤓👍
Jazz is what you make it.
Yes! Princetons rule! My special edition 65' Princeton Re-issue with a 12" Cannabis Rex "wakes up" around 4-5. It's KILLER!
This is the one I’m considering, from sweet water with the tweed cab. Will run it wet/dry with my DRRI if I get it. Glad you like it.
Just got a Princeton this month to commemorate the completion of a 1 year no booze challenge. Now this!? I'll be viewing this one a few times. Thanks fellas!
Congrats on the no booze! Hope you’re feeling energised!
Congratulations 🎊🎉🍾🎈
I've owned both... an original '64 Princeton, and a Deluxe from the first year of reissue, and absolutely loved what each did in their own way. An experiment you may wan to try, and one which I found extremely gratifying, is to plug each amp into different speaker cabinets. Try it and you'll find an even broader perspective of the tonal genius of the amps.
Fender just sold all the Princetons. Can’t remember the last time Dan lit up with glee like he did with the Princeton.
Greatest "most perfect" Guitar Amp ever made. Perfect size, weight, power & Pristine Cleans - too. Fender hit a home-run, when they made the Blackface Princeton Reverb.
My kids love dan as do my wife and I but he is the very embodiment of child like glee. Hope he reads this because he's an absolute rock star in my home. Big luv!
Watched this video this morning, went and bought a Princeton this afternoon. I'm with Dan on this one, they really are magical and their own thing. Great video lads!
If you want the best of both, try getting the Limited Edition Princeton with the 12” Celestion Alnico Speaker. It has all the tone of the Princeton but with extra power and headroom when you wat to add pedals.
congrats to Daniel for getting his purple belt, and the Fender 65 deluxe reverb stock is 6.5 and I love this amp
For real. I was concerned he'd never find anything to match those purple shoes.
I think I prefer the sound of the Deluxe. The Les Paul crunch was simply gorgeous. No bad sounds at all though.
And if you're really wanting to crunch up a Les Paul, BF isn't the best generation for that. It does have more bells and whistles, and that reverb unit CANNOT be overstated. As stated elsewhere, I find that the one true companion of the BF Deluxe is the Strat. Their respective EQs have a love-fest together.
I run my Princeton mic’d on tilt back legs at my feet pointed up at the guitar. At only about 3 feet. It’s easy to achieve a light manageable feedback that seems to increase sustain without high volume.
Me too and this all happens at a level where I’m not asked to turn down. Princeton + SM57 = Happy Days … and everyone can hear it … not just the poor few unlucky enough to be standing ringt in front of the amp. And it weighs less than a Deluxe.
Me too, and it’s even easier with my Gretsch Black Phoenix. Gold!!!
No question for me, but the combo of that Tele through BOTH amps while they were BOTH cranked is the best OD tone I’ve ever heard on TPS. That’s the OD tone that I’m totally drawn to. Just glorious.
That's because amp overdrive sounds far better than pedals. :D ;) .... which is a shame for this channel. lol. .... I joke, but I agree.. it sounded amazing.
Hahahaha!!! Yep, it’s a GLORIOUS sound alright!
I currently have the the Princeton Reissue with the factory installed Celestine 12” (G12M Greenback), and the closest I’ve come to those tones while still playing at volumes that a venue would allow is by pairing this 12” Greenback loaded Princeton with the Timmy. That combo or pairing is my current go to, and then I can bring one guitar with single coils (which is my preference) and one with humbuckers, and I can cover most of the ground I’m interested in for most gigs.
I'm so glad to see a Princeton on the show again! A 68 Custom PR has been my main (only) amp for years. Perfect for low-volume at home and gets nice and squishy playing with drums or a pit orchestra.
I have both. my princeton reverb has a 12 in it though. And I don’t have stock speakers in either. For clean playing, with no pedals, especially with a strat, I love the princeton the most and you have even more bottom end with a 12. But I prefer the DR for all around versatility and seems to take pedals/overdrive more pleasantly to me. They are both great. I prefer the trem on the princeton as well.
The Princeton is the more "intimate" version of the deluxe. Im a huge fan of the Princeton. If I need volume I can mic it. I own a special edition Knotty Pine Princeton. Pine cab with 12" alnico creamback speaker and it KILLS.
I have the same amp. That 12” alnico creamback turns it into a baby deluxe. Mine doesn’t even break up until the volume is almost at 7 with single coils. I put JJ’s in the power section for a little while and it wouldn’t break up until the volume was on 8. I have tung sol’s in it now. It is also a monster pedal platform so the extra headroom is never an issue. Tone bender Fuzz, Klone, rams head, timmy… any decent gain pedal opens turns the knotty pine Princeton into something magical. Of course you have to dial back the bass at higher volumes because it still has the underpowered transformer so the bass gets flubby.
That sounds lovely.
I have an actual vintage 65 Princeton I bought 30 years ago for $100. The guy sold it because it had "no distortion". LOL. I've gone from using 50 watt Marshall half stacks for club gigs in the 90s to the Princeton nowadays and it's perfect. LOVE that amp like no other!
I modded my Princeton to get the best of both worlds, it has a 12" speaker and a Deluxe Reverb power transformer. Still have the character and tone of the Princeton with a little more headroom and a little better at keeping up with the low end at higher volumes. I call it the Prindecon Deluxe.
Though I am super interested in the new 40 watt Pro Reverbs.
I run my Princeton through a 12” 75 W creamback in an orange closed back cab some times and I also run it through a 2 12 open back cab with a 25W green back & a 25W vintage 30. I also run it in a 4 12 cab with old 25W jensons. I love it though every speaker combination I’ve tried.
The great Tele master Jim Campilongo plays straight into a Princeton on 10 and just manipulates his volume control. It's remarkably versatile, as any of his records will show you.
NiceN
I thought he does use some sort of blues breaker
He also runs the bass at 10. Love him. One of my favorite players
@@Henry77680 Straight in. He does put a Celestion 10" greenback in his Princeton's though so the midrange is a bit different.
@@GrumCentral Me too. Proof that simplicity yields great creativity.
I just got a 65 Princeton. Tried it at the store and was amazed. I tried the 65 reverb but found the fidelity to be much better on the Princeton. I got it to pair with my AC30, but the Princeton is so good, I have not got around to pairing the amps. I also don't understand the low end but its pretty darn great and will be a welcomed addition to the AC jingly bits.
Dan, if you like the Princeton you should check out the Vintage 15 by Vintage Sound Amps. Fifteen watt Princeton circuit (they also make the V20, a 20 watt version), with premium component point-to-point wiring, 12 inch Warehouse G12C/S speaker, Twin sized (17 inch) reverb tank (vs the typical 9 inch tank), reverb dwell control to adjust reverb decay, adjustable mid-control instead of a fixed one, dove-tailed solid pine cabinet, stand-by switch and external bias points. It is a tone MONSTER!!! I run mine wet with either a Marshall Origin 20 Head or a Vox AC4 into a greenback loaded 1x12 as my dry amp...soooooo good! Loved today's show - Thanks for all you do, lads!
Holy shmoe.
Dan’s unadulterated joy when he brings the volume up to ten on the Princeton is just so pure and infectious! And Mick is running the experiment in such a precise, meticulous ‘Mick’ way! But most importantly, the enjoyment you each get from playing to the amps’ strengths is so obvious, and everything sounds so glorious! Impossible not to join in on the elation. I never even considered a Fender amp (I have a Victory v40 that I bought basically after watching Mick’s introduction of it and I love it to pieces, and the next target is probably an AC30 type amp to make a Rhett Dry Wig), but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t hop to the Anderton’s website “just to get an idea of the prices” on these.....
Brightened up my whole weekend you have!
PS: that TB-2W! Can’t believe I couldn’t find one in time. Here’s hoping more will be made available somehow...
*TPS rules!!!*
Thank you Ran! That V40 is a lovely thing for sure!
I have a DRRi from the first run of reissues, I think '93 or '94. When I first got it in 2012 or so I thought it was broken. At the time, I had only played high head room amps with solid state rectifiers. The squish from the tube rec is unreal. And it took my a year of gigging with it to learn how to adjust my attack when playing lower strings (especially with humbuggies) so that I didn't crap out the low end with a heavy hand. But it was worth the education.
Great video. I preferred the Deluxe all the way though, including amp drive only. The fact that it has a 12" speaker, more headroom and is a better pedal platform seals the deal. Just as well as I have a 65' DRRI (FSR with a Jensen P12-Q, for what its worth). The PRRI seems to have a slightly more fizzy top end.
Yep to all of that. Cheers Tin!
I’ve got a 12” tone tubby speaker in my ‘68 PRRI, and it doesn’t start breaking up till just after 7. And if I could turn bass to negative 3, the lows would probably still sound thick
The playing in this episode is so inspired and inspiring!
I played my Suhr S style guitar through a Princeton twice recently in a live setting; the only two times I’ve ever played a Princeton haha. I did notice that having the volume at 4 was too quiet for stage volume and 5 was a little too loud for the sound guy, but 4.5 ended up working well. At 4.5 I still had a fairly clean tone, but I got some awesome sounds out of it using my pedalboard!
Glorious tones on this episode, friends!
I’ve had both. I prefer the Princeton. I mostly play at home but I have other cabs so I can use 12” speakers. I also put a larger mercury magnetics output transformer in it. It feels like it has more headroom closer to the deluxe
Seeing you guys enjoy these amps is great. Having owned both, I prefer the Princeton at low volumes, where it sounds fatter, and the Deluxe for gain/overdrive where it is tighter and less fuzzy than the Princeton.
I find the larger cabinet and speaker in the Deluxe sounds fuller and better even when played at low volume for home playing. The Princeton Reverbs I had (mid-1970's versions) just didn't sound as good to me, but if they had been tuned-up with better speakers I would have liked them more perhaps. My DR clone of a 1964 with Weber 10F150 sounds awesome - I only use it at home, usually at about 4-5 on the volume, I just turn the guitar down and it still sounds great. A Super Reverb played quietly sounds great too, you don't have to crank them loud to sound good, unless you want that power tube overdrive - I prefer warm clean tones myself.
Got a Deluxe and a Ox Box... and I nearly sold all of my overdrive pedals. Everything comes from the amp and a finely tuned speaker emulation from the Ox. One of my favourite settings must be the Deluxe on 5.5 into some kind of vintage Marshall 4x12 cab. Adjust volume knob to taste for clean (ish) sounds. Instant pleasure!
Definitely Deluxe Reverbs are awesome
Great show guys! Having owned both Fender reissue '65 Deluxe Reverb and '65 Princeton Reverb amplifiers, I was never truly satisfied with the base tone of either amp, even after swapping speakers and doing the bright cap mod for the DR. For what you pay for these amps, the rather basic build quality, and the persistent cabinet rattle were simply unforgivable issues.
I found my grail Blackface amp in the Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50, and of course, I know you can buy 2 Deluxe Reverbs and a Princeton Reverb for that 1 M/B amp, but I think the Fillmore is where it's at for all the tones you're able to pull out of these Fender amps, minus the tremolo effect.
I have a Fillmore as well I’m curious how you set it up thanks
I been gigging my 68 custom silverface Princeton amp, stock as it comes for about six years now. I play mostly small bars around Maryland with the mic un-mic'd in most situations. My sweet spot is between 3 and 4. I also have a Princeton in British Racing Green that came stock with a 12 inch green back in it. That amp needs to go to about 5 to get to the sweet spot. The speaker is much less efficient. All mine had tilt-back legs. I own a few deluxe reverbs in different configurations but my go to has always been the priceton--it just cuts through nicely. Nice video gents. Cheers.
I have to say, this is is the best sounding video I've heard you guys produce. Like everyone watching your channel, I'm always chasing tone ... but these are my two main amps - I should just try and plug straight in! Thanks for the reminder, these amps sound terrific.
Glad to see both of ye two, Mik and Dan, back together again in The Pedal Show.
I’ve gigged with both the handwired Deluxe and Princetons. Though I grew up on a Blackface Deluxe, these days I find the Princeton with a Gold 10” speaker absolutely nails it for me.
Totally going to try this. Got a couple of golds here…. Mick here.
@@ThatPedalShow well worth it - increased perceived headroom and a more punchy sound. At least when replacing the stock Jensen in the handwired Princeton.
In the era of “TURN THAT DOWN” Princetons are amazing. Great tone at a level where no one hassles me to turn down.
+1 in this. A well broken in gold in a Princeton is a pretty magical thing. I’ve toured and played huge festivals with one and it sounded amazing the whole time.
@@MurrayWilliams could not agree more.
I have a '68 Princeton reissue and it's really great. I really like the sort of flubby bass end when it's a bit Neil Young-ish in it's overdrive. But, I have a vintage Super Reverb too so I've got it all covered I guess.
Dan: The bass on zero sounds amazing.
Mick: Yeah.
Dave Simpson: There is a disturbance in the Force.
Great video! I think the phase inverter is also part of the different sound. For me, the Princeton has this lovely & subtle compression going on...
I have a '65 Princeton (Fawn Tolex/12" Greenback). It's the amp I always wanted and never knew. Here's a trick to better use it as a pedal platform: Set it with bass and treble at 0, according to the Fender tonestack, that setting is almost at flat response. You get a lot of signal attenuation this way in the pre-amp gain, so, you can set it louder and the mid scoop is less of a problem. I use mine almost exclusively for metal and rock, paired with my Boss BD-2, and it just works.
Wow! Wow. I loved it before but trying it with bass and treble on zero. Wow. Thank you. Wow
@@guypaulthibault6320 You're very welcome. I recommend using it like this with gain pedals to give it some colour, since the tonestack of the amp it's basically bypassed. Happy days.
I agree with turning the bass and treble way down. Get your tone all set and then just use the amp EQ to adjust your tone to the room.
Nice comparisons. I like the way you clearly upped the volume on each amp. The Princeton sounded weak at 4, but really began to impress at 5, then 6, then 7. My experience with Princetons with 10” speakers is the speakers kind of “fart” on the bassier notes as the volume increases. Not so with the Deluxe Reverbs with their 12 inch speaker. But love them both!
Gents, I think you do some of your best work on amps. I enjoyed every minute of this episode and really appreciate how you dissected each amp at various volume levels across multiple guitar/pickup combinations. I have a Princeton and I still learned a lot!
Thank you both for getting right to the content. Quick intro, and off we go. Perfect!
I grew up playing on silent or near-silent stages, and I've never really gotten to experience cranking a classic amp like that. I'd love to hear it in person!
lol in my opinion 100watts on ten is how music was meant to be played silent stages suck
On my Princeton Reverb Reissue, I set my volume between 4.5 - 5 (max) this is with a rockabilly rock n roll Trio. Unmic'ed works fine for indoor venues my band performs at, mic'ed for larger venues and outside
Wow! Love that sound with the FilterTrons. I love FilterTrons in general, but through an overdriving Princeton, they sound 99% as good as they do through an overdriving AC30 or Matchless
Two things in my rig that never change---a single pickup '59 Gretsch Tennessean with a TV Jones Magna'Tron through an original '65 BFDR. Speaker is non-original, modded for reverb on both channels and regrilled a few years ago. Volume on 4. The sound is biblical.
Owned both the 68 custom deluxe reverb and the 1964 Princeton reissue, deluxe worked better with pedals but was so loud I couldn't get it to the sweet spot without overpowering the drummer, so I bought the Princeton and had exactly same problem, however running it clean with my es 355 is a wonderful experience, still can't bring myself to leave my pedal board at home during a gig though, come to rely on those things too much 😎 cool video anyway, fender amps are the best!
Sitting here watching this on a weekend away in Princeton BC, probably not the same Princeton these amps were named after - pop. 2200 plus one goat. Went to trade a guitar about a year ago and the bloke had a silverface Princeton through which we tried both of the guitars on the block. Hands down the best sound I have ever heard from a guitar amp. Ended up trying to talk him into selling me both the guitar and the amp. No luck. But what a lovely thing they are.
1.05.15: I’ve spent a lot of time getting the “hello” sweet spot moment with ‘more better’ pedals (probably could’ve bought a house in the country with a large garden and just turn the amp up in the first place). Apart from the absence of trouser-flapping air moving, it’s still a good feeling. Currently running a wet-dry 22w Swart Antares with a Morgan JS12, both on quite low apartment volume and with any, or a mix of, the following victims in front: Thorpy Warthog (gain and calibre down at 9 o’clock, volume and treble to taste); ODR/Wampler Belle/Shanks ODS; Jimmy/Jan Ray, all the usual boosts (Jackson Prism, Thorpy Fat Gen, Hamstead Ascent) and so on. I get the best results turning up this rig a bit too loud for apartment volume but knocking back the vol on the guitars a bit and playing with dynamics (as opposed to full attack with the picking hand). To my ear, it sounds like the cranked sweet spot where the clean and gain sounds are both present, almost in parallel.
I’m not suggesting that it’s better than smashing 90, 100, 105 dB in a rehearsal or gig, or that it would work if you favour metal, but for bluesy/Mayer/Ford stuff the tone is fab and the sensation is that proper ‘edge of breakup’. I think that getting a good sound in a condo is a science in itself, but it’s worth it for me and, in contrast to Mick, I would always take this route for lowish volume home playing over the digital solutions. Great show as always, chaps.
Nice! Bet it sounds mega! I like the concept of ‘a bit too loud for apartment volume’ ha! Mick here. :0)
Thank you gentlemen! I paused the video, plugged straight into my Princeton Reverb derivative and turned the volume up. I’ve been building a pedal board lately and had the volume fixed at 3.5-4 for months. Truly bypassing all of the pedals and turning the volume up reminds me of how good tube amp distortion sounds. With my amp, there are some weird artifacts above 8 (probably the phase inverter) but at 7-1/2 it really is glorious.
Hope the neighbors couldn’t hear it …
P.S. reverb tanks are not all created equal. The tank in my amp produces a drowning swamp at “6” even with a Dwell control that can reduce the signal going into the tank. That’s not a bad thing at all! The first tank I put into it was just ok, but this one is awesome. Also - how the power tubes are biased can affect the strength of the tremolo. Hint: hotter is not necessarily better. Finally, tweaking 1 or 2 capacitors can slow down the tremolo range a lot and is a very nice mod.
Wow! Well that was a revelation (actually a number of them). Seemed like you both played a bit differently than "usual" with these amps. Really awesome - thanks! I had been decided on a Deluxe - now . . . uh oh.
I have a 65RI Princeton Reverb with a 1x12 Canabis Rex...no longer have issues with flubby bass...
This video is perfect because I’m trying to decide which one to buy
And the answer of course is both lol
I’m watching to justify getting the Princeton to play along with siblings Deluxe, Vibroverb, Champ & Vibrochamp 😎 Both @10 sound so sweet...
This explains a little bit as to why I run my P90s Tele through a 5F1 champ and 2 cabs. 1 x 10" and 1 x 12". Glorious.
I absolutely love the blackface amps. The Princeton Reverb will always be my favorite amp due to its ability to not only put out a "pure" tone, but also a very percussive tone. I swear that the Jenson-style speakers make your low-E string sound like a kick drum and your top strings sound snappy, like a snare. I'm exaggerating, of course. Oh, and that reverb. Gorgeous.
I love my PRRI. I replaced the P10Q w a Weber 50 watt 10 inch just to give me more headroom. That speaker in that amp is amazing. I’ve gigged this amp almost everywhere. I love getting to crank it on about 7. Brings so many overtones out of my tele it’s amazing. It’s like they are one. I find I rarely hit more than my tube screamer for overdrive.
@@JeremyAult12 I know what youre talking about! I played a PRRI with 10A150s 50w and I was blown away. In a live situation, they have a lot of body. Since I record, I stick with the stock Jensons because of the scooped mids. Anything else will muddy up the mix. But i found that once the Jensons break in, omg the different types of harmonics/overtones you get are amazing.
@@JeremyAult12 10A150 or 10F150 would be my Webers of choice, in that order usually.
My fav (and currently only) Princeton, an early ‘68 non-reverb version, really comes alive at ~7 on the volume. Treble at 6, bass at 3-3.5. It’s a quieter, less gainy amp than the reverb version due to one fewer 12AX7 stage in the preamp (not counting the reverb circuit). It still sounds really good dialed back to 5 too, which is how I use it with pedals, and at that setting makes a terrific home amp.
The deluxe with the bass off is something else!!
Agreed!. So warm, and the Strat had the perfect midrange.
My favorite amp for years has been a '71 silverface. 7 is where the magic starts!
Thanks guys. Great vid once again. So interesting to hear these amps in context of single coil to HB. You can tell they were voiced with the Fender lineup in mind. Amazing amps historically also as they were both designed pre-CBS and made their way through late 60's. I have a whole new appreciation for these amps. In gratitude!
This video affirms for me that the Tele is a jack of all trades and master of them all. Great video guys and I appreciate you making such high quality viewing content.
YES! Mick here
yes, I couldn't believe how great the DRRI sounded on 8-10 with a Les Paul, awesome lead sound (no pedals). Had never done it before and only did it in the recording studio as an experiment. Ended doing all the recording with no pedals. My experience with vintage Fenders up to that point is that don't break up nicely (Blackface Bassman the exception).
From the Fender Princeton owners manual:
INPUT 2-Lower sensitivity input (-6dB) to provide high-output guitars with cleaner response.
Legends. As a Princeton fan I’ve been waiting years for this episode of TPS and it didn’t disappoint! 😃
Put the Princeton circuit into the larger Deluxe cabinet with with either a 10" or 2 x 10" or 12" or....anything!
I love this middle age ‘blokey’ thing they’ve got about gear & instruments.
I could never get this vibe before, as it’s usually blokes talking about football in this vein. However, I can fully get into the whole vibe these two fellas get. Essential viewing, and empathetic enthusing 👍🎸
Thanks for all you do fellas! Australian viewer here. Never get to see the live QnA but saying g'day! Cheers!
Well good day sir! And g’day from Dan. :0)
Willoughby?
@@joshmuz9018 unfortunately not! Lower North shore Sydney would be pretty epic! Maybe I could afford all the pedals then haha. :-)
I have the 64 reissue hand-wired, just an incredible amp. But I changed the speaker to a Jensen Alnico PN12. I also have the 65 reissue princeton, changed the speaker to an alnico jenson P10R. Beautiful vintage sounds with all the fender chime!
Yeah, so did I. The stock Jensen of my Princeton Reissue was farting permanently, so I replaced it with the Jensen P10R, which, by the way, Fender is using in their handwired Princetons. That was a pretty good investment.
A treble booster into that cranked Princeton would sound amazing, I think. I watched Howard Gee demo Catalinbread's Naga Viper into a Princeton on 10 and it was one of the best sounds I've ever heard.
I'll confirm this suspicion. I run a Strymon Sunset on the treble boost setting with a bit of drive and tone dialed in right into my Princeton 65 and it sounds blissful. Telecaster on the neck pickup, I get lost for hours noodling and get no work done, but I'm in heaven.
This was a perfect demonstration of how to use these amps and how they sound.
Funnily enough, I find that Gibson style guitars sound best with American Fender style amps. And that Fender style guitars sound best with British Vox, Hiwatt, etc. style amps. Just my personal preference. One goes for the full frequency thing and the other goes for sitting tightly in the mix. Both great!!!Wowie wow beautiful sounds.
I agree so much with this statement; my 335 sounds nice and full with a 65 princeton, whereas my tele and strats sound thin and brittle in that same amp (except for the neck pu of the strat). Gibson guitars with HBs are well complemented by scooped amps, and trebly single coil fender guitars are well complemented by mid focused amps (british voiced amps, tweed amps)
Well done demo. I'm from the States and have a owned a few of both of these amps. I would always go with a Deluxe Reverb because they're a more versatile amp. Being able to use the non-reverb channel is also advantageous. I get why most prefer the Princeton more though. Both reissues sound decent. They really sounded best together.
My favorite of these type of these amps are the Vibrolux Reverb & Pro Reverb. The 6L6 power tube is the deal for the Fender Reverb amps. The Pro & Vibrolux are the sweet spot.
I’m with you, Mick here.
That’s why I got a deluxe vibrolux to go with my alnico deluxe reverb. They both have alnico Jensen. 12” and two tens on the deluxe vibrolux
0:04 question answered. Obvious answer, they have like 20 amps.
No negativity intended, but imo you are disregarding an entire demographic of guitarists. Amp tones have their respective sounds at high volume but the same can be also said about low volume. I think you should demonstrate very low volume comparisons, ESPECIALLY when showing lower wattage amps. It is actually a very helpful experience!
I was hoping to hear them at low volumes with pedals as well ...
What Mick says at 29:10 is right on the money for me. I have moved from one end of the spectrum, a 74 Vibrosonic Reverb, to the other, a 78 Princeton, and the kicker was that as lovely as the big old Vibrosonic is, I just don't use that kind of bottom end in a band mix. Either I am dialing out bass or the FOH engineer has already done it on their end! I find the Princeton just sits beautifully in the mix.
It's always great to see you guys having so much fun. I'm looking forward to the (surely they're coming now) next versions in this series: handwired PR/DR vs PCB PR/DR and this exact same video with the two hand-wireds.
No no no. It’s not as big a deal as the alnico speaker. I have both
@@BranqonBoom the Jensen alnico p12q.
I own two early 70's deluxe reverb amps that I run together. Both of them get to that sweet spot around 4.5-5. But very rarely see that kind of volume.
Love how the Deluxe sounds. I think the speaker in the Princeton is holding it back. An Eminence Ramrod may help the Princeton out.
Some of the most inspired playing by you two gents on TPS. Great show!!
65 fender super reverb ..65 Princeton ..65 deluxe .. 1965 was one hell of a year for freaking great Amps
Ok so I have come back to this video I think a thousand times! I’m about to make my biggest investment on a tube amp and is being so hard to decide between these 2 amps! So hard to pick between them!
Been at my local L&M here in Vancouver Canada with both side to side and I keep just debating which I should pick!
But I think I’ll go for the 65 reverb deluxe just for the extra headroom since I have to cut it trough a drums, percussion section,bass violin, and keyboard player!!
Awesome! Hope you love it! (That’s what I’d choose too - Mick here)
@@ThatPedalShow also I mainly play with a strat and I feel the Deluxe has a sweet relationship with strats, by the way I’m not sure how religious are you about Tube Amps, but during 2020 I bought my first serious Solid state amp as a back up when my Hot rod broke, is the Quilter Tone Block 202 and is insane how much comes through such a compact design, they have a series of amps that apparently have a very close feel to Tube amps I’m throwing that here in case you are curious and open to tray something different.
Thank you for all your mega informative content always with a pinch of good humor! Big fan here!
Crikey, there were some great sounds here. I confess I found myself being more aligned and alternatively not so much with the Deluxe. The Princeton is unique. I'd really like to hear the Princeton dimed with a treble booster, guys. Well done. Loved this.
Glad fender brought them back! In the ‘70s I started with a Princeton. Loved it so much. Struggled for a long time to find a comparable sounds. Current amps are Line 6 Bogner, Mesa Rectifier, Fender Devile…still can’t compare with the Princeton.
40.30 ‘It almost seems wrong to plug any overdrive pedals in now’ - ‘Wrong is a strong word’ 😂 Loved it!!!
I run a ‘71, and ‘73 Princeton Reverbs in tandem. Hard not to be inspired. The tone/power/weight ratio is just ideal. I also run a couple modified 1990’s Trace Velocettes 10s (rigged to NOT explode), and they are like British AC15 inspired Princetons. Insane power/tone/weight ratios.
The Princeton sounds fantastic !!
Time stamp 39:30. “All you need is fuzz”.
I run my band on a pair of the 68 Custom Princetons - both on 4.5, treble on 8.5, bass on 1.5, reverb on 3.
Did you guys notice how the reverb “ducks” on the Princeton, especially if you hit it hard with a ton of level? I use an old Keeley Java Boost and just flog them with level for my leads. Such an amazing sound.