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I see a couple of master debaters. Love this format lads. Dark marshal is without a doubt my favourite of the named Wraiths. Love the banner, but also he's one of the best casters out of the named lads, he's also got the highest base fight value. -Sean
@Julesgio I'm not a big expert or anything but strike is just so good adding it to any hero makes them a more competitive pick. I'd love Orophin to get strike too.
For me, I'd say the rankings go: 1. Witch King - Jack of all trades, best combat wraith, what not to like. 2. Shadow Lord - Brings Blinding Light to evil lists, which is an extremely valuable tool to have, especially now with the changes to flying and Great Beast model In-The-Ways 3. Dwimmerlaik - Neuters powerful opposing heroes and, just as importantly, is a massive psychological weapon to drain your opponent's mental resources. Doesn't need to be in combat or on a fellbeast imo to get max value, and you can always send him in with support to make him more viable; his job is to support and make other heroes worthless. 16 will too is nice. 4. Khamul the Easterling - 2nd best combat wraith, MUST be mounted, ideally on a fellbeast, though to get the most value out of him 5. Dark Marshal - 6" banner is good, but can relegate him largely to just banner duty and not much combat or casting as well due to only 14 will and it doesn't affect himself or other heroes, so for less points, just bring Suladan. Putting them together does give insane banner coverage though... 6. Betrayer - kinda meh in Mordor with no strike and needing the fellbeast to get 2A, must-have in Harad; would be better if he gave access to poisoned weapons somehow, but that list limitation makes him disappointing for me. Bane of Kings is cool though, will say that, might be underrating him a bit. 7. Knight of Umbar - no heroic strike makes his special rule pretty lousy, and he's a bad caster, but his armor still makes him a decent-ish combat option, especially on fell beast in a Corsair list since they don't have magic options or super heavy hitters. Not an ideal fit, but I can imagine some list combinations that could work alright with him. 8. Tainted - main special rule is heavily dependent on things outside of your control (getting priority and breaking your opponent before they break you), which makes it an extremely hit or miss points investment. Also somewhat anti-synergistic with the Dwimmerlaik, huge minus for me. 9. Undying - 18 fate points? Cool, but Will of Evil makes conserving will even more important now and thus limits his casting a little bit imo, so you have to protect him, and he's not a great combat hero, so that extra fate isn't too useful if you're not sending him in. Plus it's still a 50/50 roll, so have fun failing 6-7 fate rolls and loosing 6-7 will cause your opponent lucked into 2 wounds and you suddenly can't roll a 4+. Arcana Leach is also completely pointless.
I have experience with most wraiths, and I would change khamul to 2nd, literally the only wraith I often take over or with WK. I really, really hate the shadow lord, because your paying 120 PTS to save 4 models, an unreliable stand fast (C5 for some godamm reason) a lot of lost threat (6 inch black dart). I put him below the tainted. Lastly, dwimmerlaik, even though I really like him, I cannot put him above the marshal. He has an average of removing about 5 might if you do 6 casts. This basically means he is complete garbage in so many fricking matchups.
So in conclusion, my rankings: 1-WK No shit Sherlock 2-Khamul Insane on a fell beast 3-Marshall The banner is nice, but f6 base in Mordor is beautiful. 4-The tainted Half of all priorities are insta won brutally destroys low courage armies 5-The dwimmerlaik Fun. Destroys many matchups. 6-the Betrayer, in Mordor Great damage, but crappy casting. Alliance in F4 spears! 7-The shadow lord Rarely ever usefull. Weakened stats. Just bring a flipping drummer! 8-Unding Mid as fuck. Just take a regular wraith 9-The Knight of Umbar Cool model. Shit ability. Shit casting. Shit amount of resources.
The Ian list painted shadow lord on forgotten dungeon base is superb min 3:09, very good list, i am glad i added kamul to my army, although nobody play it anymore.
dang guys this is class! love the idea of releasing content with visuals for youtube well done! a couple buddies of mine think ring wraiths are trash ima have to show them this 🙌
Found thos video when I was looking into the game. Very proud to say I took the knight of umbar to an undefeated finish(had a tie) at a GT this past weekend. Ready to see what the new edition brings now!
@@nklinef I think it mostly comes down to what he provides to specifically corsairs. They lack magic or mobility without him in the list. Transfix sets up Dalamyr for real easy kills, and allows for his smoke bomb to be useful, fell beast can knock things down to trap and trigger backstabbers, running some black numenoreans makes the harbinger bubble better and a lot of durability. I look at him like a Swiss army knife where he may not be the best at anything but can do a lot of things well enough.
A big problem is the WK. It costs the EXACT SAME as a regular wraith with 10 will. With extra heroic actions, more access to M,W,F and extra goodies to take (Crown, Morgul blade). He should cost more for the base profile IMO.
@@intothewestpodcast I think vanilla wraiths are great in small to mid games as mid size assassins. But yeah, taking the WK at bigger points is an absolute no brainer decision. And that has to change somehow I think.
I'm surprised...I'm heading into a tournament using the Dwimmerlaik because usually alot of opponents do not expect him. Sucking the shit out of for exapmple Thranduil can be huuuge. Especially if you are rolling with Kardush too. Just protect Dwimmerlaik and use him soley as a support.
We see his use and his potential, the 4+ roll is just hit-or-miss for the amount you’re paying for him. Please let us know how you do with him! -Charles
Here’s an update on my Dwimmerlaik experience during the tournament. He’s really BadAss! People really hate him (especially Aragorn Players) he did pretty well. Can definitely recommend him 👌
@@rockybolick9646 that's awesome, glad it worked out for you! Sometimes the stuff that people don't see and don't know how to play against works super well! -Richard
I was also surprised by the low ranking of Dwimmerlaik. I've played with it and can be decisive, especially if combined with the Witch King. It drains will, might and fate pretty fast!
It's a shame the Knight of Umbar is so low, as he has such a cool design. If you were to take the optimised mount for each Nazgul, which would you say? Fellbeast, armoured horse, regular horse, just on foot etc.
Probably fellbeast for the combat wraiths, and horse for the caster wraiths. For the Witch-King an argument can be made for both as he can be built as either.
We considered including them, but decided not to in the end because they are somewhat in a different category, being able to take multiples of them. I’d put them somewhere in the middle personally. They are flexible and very customizable like the Witch-King, and provide Heroic March if you need it, but in many cases you’d just take the Witch-King instead. -Charles
Shadow Lord should maybe be higher just because Assault on Lothlorien is just so incredibly overtuned and he neuters prowler and bow spam in a major way.
This was a throwback to a recording from January 2022, before Assault on Lothlorien was released. Makes perfect sense in today’s meta though, I agree 100%. -Charles
Any advice for building a good 700 point mordor list? I have played a few times now and have a bunch of different models but what configuration, how much of each. Just need some builds to get a broader base line.
You probably want at least 35 models. You can go with an elite battle line of Black Numenoreans in the front line backed up by Morannon Orcs with spears (which you'll probably end up around the 35 models), or you go more of a regular or base and go over 40 models. Lots of good heroes in Mordor to choose from, but try not to go over 60% of overall points costs on heroes. These are just general baselines, but for more specific lists, in our old audio episodes we built different kinds of Mordor armies using different heroes, feel free to go through them! Hope this helps you get started! -Richard
@@intothewestpodcast were are these podcasts? The oldest on this channel looks to go back 2 months and I don't see one speaking directly of mordor builds. Am I overlooking something?
We only just started our RUclips recently, but we have a ton of audio only episodes on Spotify/Apple/etc, links in the description. Another quicker way is to go on our Facebook page where we posted all the lists to corresponding episodes. Just look at all photos and you should find the lists. -Richard
@@intothewestpodcast thank you, by chance do you know what base size the giant spiders and spiders of mirkwood are? Also what size base bat swarm is on. In another video guys talked about a legion and a character that can bring them.
@@intothewestpodcast I also rate him highly, not over WK but dependent on the event at least second. I also really enjoy my reaper boltthrowers, rivendell knights and vale archer bomb so he already has my respect. With a reliable transfix and harbinger he makes it into most of my 700+ points lists.
I don't understand your ranking of the Betrayer and the knight of Umbar You rate the Betrayer if he is in a harad list, while he is completly useless in a Mordor list (while also a terrible caster) But you do not rate the Knight in an Umbar list where he has a role: - Providing Harbinger of evil for the Black Numenoreans frontline - Sap will and other spells on enemy heroes for Dalamyr bombs to work on them - Monstruous attack / Mobility on a fellbeast in an army with Backstabber / no cavalry - Anti-monster power on a horse with his ability to copy their combat, strenght and attacks He is a combat wraith, yes he is terrible against heroes but you have Dalamyr, Hasharin, arbalesters and mostly corsairs for that. But with his ability, he can afford to stay in melee with regular troops far more easily than most ringwraith while providing harbinger and a few spells I feel like the Knight of Umbar is just like the betrayer, terrible in a mordor list, but synergize well in his home army. The synergy is obviously less powerful than the Betrayers but he has several more strings to his bow
You bring up some good points, and I agree he's definitely a more viable pick in Umbar compared to Mordor but generally he still doesn't get much play because one of the most efficient ways to play Umbar is just to spam Corsairs and/or ally with Suladan. You rarely even see Black Numenoreans which are cost effective models, the army bonus is just too good not to spam Corsairs. -Richard
I’m not sold on the ring wraiths. They are horrible in close combat. Their will drains every round they are in close combat. Only 1 wound and 1 attack. These armored behemoths can’t do much in melee. I’m sure I’m just not using them right. I don’t get the 1 wound.
Depends on which Wraith you choose, only a few are meant to be in combat. For the combat ones, oftentimes you get the Fellbeast upgrade so it's not actually 1 attack. The 1 wound isn't great but they are harder to take down than you would think with the D8 and Fate points. Also, if you are on Fellbeast, you are picking the combats you're involved in. Most of the time you will be fighting regular warriors or a transfixed hero which won't be much of a threat to killing you. There's a reason the Witch-King is often picked for competitive play, he is a great caster and he can definitely fight as well. -Richard
You guys need to put some more respect on the Dwimmerlak none of you IMO gave that character the respect it deserves as a flash nuker/effectivness destoryer. The model is kind of like the undying it requires at least one other caster to unlock its potential. It's powerful at eating resources from people by putting people in a catch-22 with highly rolled spells. Say I have a burrow-weight, another ring wraith, or a shaman and I channel/cast a devastating spell they need to resist on a high dice roll ( because we throw multiple Will to make sure it goes off with at least a 5+) then the model needs to use at least 2 will - well your Dwimmerlak has 2 chances to eat their remaining will points - I did this the other day with Dwimmerlak +Witch King + Angmar Shaman. The other guy's Borimir had a Channeled immobilize on a 6 with 4 dice+ Crown of Morgul reroll. Since I have no burrow weights he decided to resist with 2 points of will since he doesn't want to get minced by the witch king with Morgul blade. The first roll comes up a 3 and on a 4+ I eat an additional will point with the Dwimm. I then channel a wither into the Borimir on 2 dice and he's -2 strength the rest of the game. The other factor is that if the Witch King is part of the army or you have a heavy hitter more points of fate can be eaten up super fast to save a wound from the Morgul blade or from monsters or other kill potential threats. There is a reason this model comes with no might if he could heroic channel we would be completely broken.
I see what you’re saying. The Dwimmerlaik definitely has rules that combo well with other casters in Angmar, he’s just very expensive for what he is. Unfortunately the trend with this game is whenever a profile gets nerfed it’s always overdone. If we were talking the previous edition in the game, he would be near the top for me. But in the current edition he got hit harder than the other wraiths, where a Will needs to be spent on their ability for that turn, the Dwimmerlaik has to spent a Will each time a hero spends a resource… not only that but it only works 50% of the time. If Dwimmerlaik only had to spend 1 Will per turn, he would be ranked 3rd or 4th for me. -Charles
@@intothewestpodcast Yeah IDK about this logic he's 120 points for 16 points of Will & 2 fate - a standard ring wraith to get this costs 110 pts - and it doesn't come with an irresistible 4+ Sap 1 might/will/fate Grimma ability. Also, the rule says "may elect" to not have to spend a point of will so you don't have to. If you Merk someone's general because you 4 dice sap will them and then +4 ur ability on the will points you can have at their general the rest of the game. I'm not sure the other ring wraiths really give as much tactical potential to out-grind as much as the Dwimm does, I will have to re-watch and see what you guys saw in the other candidates.
You do make some solid arguments. I’d say in that comparison what a generic wraith has on the Dwimmerlaik is having heroic march without taking a captain, being able to have 2 Might (IMO a steal for 10 points), and the option to take fewer Will points for a budget caster and cheap way to get Harbringer. Where would you rank the Dwimmerlaik out of the 9? -Charles
@@intothewestpodcast 1. Witch King - Dual Role (Redundancy tech). 2. Dark Marshal: (Redundancy Tech) Only other wraith with a 4+ instill fear, banner effect for warriors. 3. Standard Ringwraith - March + 1 Heroic Channel of Choice, can substitute a warrior for more magic & keep march. 4. Shadow Lord: (Anti Shooting Tech) Better the more elite your troops are/maybe BIS with a troll or other monster vs shooting armies. 5. Dwimmerlaik: (Facilitation) Strips resources for other models to take the glory in later turns. 6. Tainted: (Cavalry Tech) Stops heroic moves bogging down models in a heavy cav list or anything else that doesn't want to be charged. 7. Betrayer & Kammuel: Easterlings/Harad force multiplier (probably shouldn't even be in a list with other wraiths tbh) 8. The Undying: (General Kill Point Denial) Perhaps useful for picking up objectives. 9. Knight of Umbar: (Anti Monster Tech)
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Thank you!
I see a couple of master debaters.
Love this format lads. Dark marshal is without a doubt my favourite of the named Wraiths. Love the banner, but also he's one of the best casters out of the named lads, he's also got the highest base fight value.
-Sean
I love the Knight of umbars model I really wish he had strike or something to make him worth taking
100%! We don't see enough of the different types of Ringwraiths these days, too many Witch-Kings!
-Richard
The black Nums should look like him tbh. Because their models are ugly as hell
@himakoski That would be class I do agree the official ones are a bit crap.
Having strike would "fix him" ? Or at least worth taking ?
@Julesgio I'm not a big expert or anything but strike is just so good adding it to any hero makes them a more competitive pick. I'd love Orophin to get strike too.
For me, I'd say the rankings go:
1. Witch King - Jack of all trades, best combat wraith, what not to like.
2. Shadow Lord - Brings Blinding Light to evil lists, which is an extremely valuable tool to have, especially now with the changes to flying and Great Beast model In-The-Ways
3. Dwimmerlaik - Neuters powerful opposing heroes and, just as importantly, is a massive psychological weapon to drain your opponent's mental resources. Doesn't need to be in combat or on a fellbeast imo to get max value, and you can always send him in with support to make him more viable; his job is to support and make other heroes worthless. 16 will too is nice.
4. Khamul the Easterling - 2nd best combat wraith, MUST be mounted, ideally on a fellbeast, though to get the most value out of him
5. Dark Marshal - 6" banner is good, but can relegate him largely to just banner duty and not much combat or casting as well due to only 14 will and it doesn't affect himself or other heroes, so for less points, just bring Suladan. Putting them together does give insane banner coverage though...
6. Betrayer - kinda meh in Mordor with no strike and needing the fellbeast to get 2A, must-have in Harad; would be better if he gave access to poisoned weapons somehow, but that list limitation makes him disappointing for me. Bane of Kings is cool though, will say that, might be underrating him a bit.
7. Knight of Umbar - no heroic strike makes his special rule pretty lousy, and he's a bad caster, but his armor still makes him a decent-ish combat option, especially on fell beast in a Corsair list since they don't have magic options or super heavy hitters. Not an ideal fit, but I can imagine some list combinations that could work alright with him.
8. Tainted - main special rule is heavily dependent on things outside of your control (getting priority and breaking your opponent before they break you), which makes it an extremely hit or miss points investment. Also somewhat anti-synergistic with the Dwimmerlaik, huge minus for me.
9. Undying - 18 fate points? Cool, but Will of Evil makes conserving will even more important now and thus limits his casting a little bit imo, so you have to protect him, and he's not a great combat hero, so that extra fate isn't too useful if you're not sending him in. Plus it's still a 50/50 roll, so have fun failing 6-7 fate rolls and loosing 6-7 will cause your opponent lucked into 2 wounds and you suddenly can't roll a 4+. Arcana Leach is also completely pointless.
I have experience with most wraiths, and I would change khamul to 2nd, literally the only wraith I often take over or with WK. I really, really hate the shadow lord, because your paying 120 PTS to save 4 models, an unreliable stand fast (C5 for some godamm reason) a lot of lost threat (6 inch black dart). I put him below the tainted. Lastly, dwimmerlaik, even though I really like him, I cannot put him above the marshal. He has an average of removing about 5 might if you do 6 casts. This basically means he is complete garbage in so many fricking matchups.
So in conclusion, my rankings:
1-WK
No shit Sherlock
2-Khamul
Insane on a fell beast
3-Marshall
The banner is nice, but f6 base in Mordor is beautiful.
4-The tainted
Half of all priorities are insta won brutally destroys low courage armies
5-The dwimmerlaik
Fun. Destroys many matchups.
6-the Betrayer, in Mordor
Great damage, but crappy casting. Alliance in F4 spears!
7-The shadow lord
Rarely ever usefull. Weakened stats. Just bring a flipping drummer!
8-Unding
Mid as fuck. Just take a regular wraith
9-The Knight of Umbar
Cool model. Shit ability. Shit casting. Shit amount of resources.
The Ian list painted shadow lord on forgotten dungeon base is superb min 3:09, very good list, i am glad i added kamul to my army, although nobody play it anymore.
dang guys this is class! love the idea of releasing content with visuals for youtube well done! a couple buddies of mine think ring wraiths are trash ima have to show them this 🙌
Thank you!
Wraiths are definitely not trash... Well, most of them at least... 😅
-Richard
Found thos video when I was looking into the game. Very proud to say I took the knight of umbar to an undefeated finish(had a tie) at a GT this past weekend. Ready to see what the new edition brings now!
How did you run him?
Is there a trick or tactic you use that makes him more effective in a way they're not seeing?
@@nklinef I think it mostly comes down to what he provides to specifically corsairs. They lack magic or mobility without him in the list. Transfix sets up Dalamyr for real easy kills, and allows for his smoke bomb to be useful, fell beast can knock things down to trap and trigger backstabbers, running some black numenoreans makes the harbinger bubble better and a lot of durability. I look at him like a Swiss army knife where he may not be the best at anything but can do a lot of things well enough.
A big problem is the WK. It costs the EXACT SAME as a regular wraith with 10 will. With extra heroic actions, more access to M,W,F and extra goodies to take (Crown, Morgul blade). He should cost more for the base profile IMO.
Good point but I think the WK is fine where he's at... So if anything, the others wraiths could do with some bumps up.
-Richard
@@intothewestpodcast I think vanilla wraiths are great in small to mid games as mid size assassins. But yeah, taking the WK at bigger points is an absolute no brainer decision. And that has to change somehow I think.
The heroic March is also really nice, saves you from taking a captain or MoS!
-Richard
The crown needs to go to 30pts or force to start at 12 will. This would leave room for vanilla wraiths to actually be useful in more situations
I'm surprised...I'm heading into a tournament using the Dwimmerlaik because usually alot of opponents do not expect him. Sucking the shit out of for exapmple Thranduil can be huuuge. Especially if you are rolling with Kardush too. Just protect Dwimmerlaik and use him soley as a support.
We see his use and his potential, the 4+ roll is just hit-or-miss for the amount you’re paying for him. Please let us know how you do with him!
-Charles
Here’s an update on my Dwimmerlaik experience during the tournament. He’s really BadAss! People really hate him (especially Aragorn Players) he did pretty well. Can definitely recommend him 👌
@@rockybolick9646 that's awesome, glad it worked out for you! Sometimes the stuff that people don't see and don't know how to play against works super well!
-Richard
I was also surprised by the low ranking of Dwimmerlaik. I've played with it and can be decisive, especially if combined with the Witch King. It drains will, might and fate pretty fast!
It's a shame the Knight of Umbar is so low, as he has such a cool design.
If you were to take the optimised mount for each Nazgul, which would you say? Fellbeast, armoured horse, regular horse, just on foot etc.
Probably fellbeast for the combat wraiths, and horse for the caster wraiths. For the Witch-King an argument can be made for both as he can be built as either.
I’m looking to start this game and Ringwraiths are my favorite dudes. What would be the best army to play so I can field a bunch of Ringwraiths?
Angmar and Mordor are the two armies you’ll want to play. A new edition of the game is just around the corner though, so keep that in mind!
MH but you missed the normal Wraith. How do you like them?
We considered including them, but decided not to in the end because they are somewhat in a different category, being able to take multiples of them. I’d put them somewhere in the middle personally. They are flexible and very customizable like the Witch-King, and provide Heroic March if you need it, but in many cases you’d just take the Witch-King instead.
-Charles
Shadow Lord should maybe be higher just because Assault on Lothlorien is just so incredibly overtuned and he neuters prowler and bow spam in a major way.
This was a throwback to a recording from January 2022, before Assault on Lothlorien was released. Makes perfect sense in today’s meta though, I agree 100%.
-Charles
Sorry this is off topic but how good is the paint job Guys? Great episode thanks..
Haha no apologies needed! Yeah, some of the artists are really great, definitely go check them out on Instagram.
-Richard
1) It's there a playable Hope for The Dwimmerlaik in this edition? 2)The only playable faction its Angmar only?
1) Not unless there are significant changes.
2) You can also take him in Mordor!
-Richard
Any chance if we pair the dwimmerlaik into a Mordor-Isenguard alliance with Grima in the mix?
Any advice for building a good 700 point mordor list? I have played a few times now and have a bunch of different models but what configuration, how much of each. Just need some builds to get a broader base line.
You probably want at least 35 models. You can go with an elite battle line of Black Numenoreans in the front line backed up by Morannon Orcs with spears (which you'll probably end up around the 35 models), or you go more of a regular or base and go over 40 models.
Lots of good heroes in Mordor to choose from, but try not to go over 60% of overall points costs on heroes.
These are just general baselines, but for more specific lists, in our old audio episodes we built different kinds of Mordor armies using different heroes, feel free to go through them!
Hope this helps you get started!
-Richard
@@intothewestpodcast were are these podcasts? The oldest on this channel looks to go back 2 months and I don't see one speaking directly of mordor builds. Am I overlooking something?
We only just started our RUclips recently, but we have a ton of audio only episodes on Spotify/Apple/etc, links in the description.
Another quicker way is to go on our Facebook page where we posted all the lists to corresponding episodes. Just look at all photos and you should find the lists.
-Richard
@@intothewestpodcast thank you, by chance do you know what base size the giant spiders and spiders of mirkwood are? Also what size base bat swarm is on. In another video guys talked about a legion and a character that can bring them.
@@monkeyfoo999 giant spiders and bat swarms are on 40mm and mirkwood spiders are on 60mm.
Razgush in Fell Beings of Mirkwood legion.
If you put Dwimmerlaik on fell beast can't you use the beast's claws and not have the 2-handed penalty?
No, it was clarified in the FAQ. Cavalry models can't use their mount's weapons to bypass the -1 modifier.
-Richard
Tainted and Undying over Shadowlord?
I personally go Shadowlord first :)
-Richard
@@intothewestpodcast I also rate him highly, not over WK but dependent on the event at least second. I also really enjoy my reaper boltthrowers, rivendell knights and vale archer bomb so he already has my respect. With a reliable transfix and harbinger he makes it into most of my 700+ points lists.
I don't understand your ranking of the Betrayer and the knight of Umbar
You rate the Betrayer if he is in a harad list, while he is completly useless in a Mordor list (while also a terrible caster)
But you do not rate the Knight in an Umbar list where he has a role:
- Providing Harbinger of evil for the Black Numenoreans frontline
- Sap will and other spells on enemy heroes for Dalamyr bombs to work on them
- Monstruous attack / Mobility on a fellbeast in an army with Backstabber / no cavalry
- Anti-monster power on a horse with his ability to copy their combat, strenght and attacks
He is a combat wraith, yes he is terrible against heroes but you have Dalamyr, Hasharin, arbalesters and mostly corsairs for that.
But with his ability, he can afford to stay in melee with regular troops far more easily than most ringwraith while providing harbinger and a few spells
I feel like the Knight of Umbar is just like the betrayer, terrible in a mordor list, but synergize well in his home army.
The synergy is obviously less powerful than the Betrayers but he has several more strings to his bow
You bring up some good points, and I agree he's definitely a more viable pick in Umbar compared to Mordor but generally he still doesn't get much play because one of the most efficient ways to play Umbar is just to spam Corsairs and/or ally with Suladan. You rarely even see Black Numenoreans which are cost effective models, the army bonus is just too good not to spam Corsairs.
-Richard
I’m not sold on the ring wraiths. They are horrible in close combat. Their will drains every round they are in close combat. Only 1 wound and 1 attack. These armored behemoths can’t do much in melee.
I’m sure I’m just not using them right.
I don’t get the 1 wound.
Depends on which Wraith you choose, only a few are meant to be in combat. For the combat ones, oftentimes you get the Fellbeast upgrade so it's not actually 1 attack.
The 1 wound isn't great but they are harder to take down than you would think with the D8 and Fate points.
Also, if you are on Fellbeast, you are picking the combats you're involved in. Most of the time you will be fighting regular warriors or a transfixed hero which won't be much of a threat to killing you.
There's a reason the Witch-King is often picked for competitive play, he is a great caster and he can definitely fight as well.
-Richard
@@intothewestpodcast fair enough ,still don’t get the 1 wound and thought process behind it. On lucky hit…and poof.
You guys need to put some more respect on the Dwimmerlak none of you IMO gave that character the respect it deserves as a flash nuker/effectivness destoryer. The model is kind of like the undying it requires at least one other caster to unlock its potential. It's powerful at eating resources from people by putting people in a catch-22 with highly rolled spells. Say I have a burrow-weight, another ring wraith, or a shaman and I channel/cast a devastating spell they need to resist on a high dice roll ( because we throw multiple Will to make sure it goes off with at least a 5+) then the model needs to use at least 2 will - well your Dwimmerlak has 2 chances to eat their remaining will points - I did this the other day with Dwimmerlak +Witch King + Angmar Shaman.
The other guy's Borimir had a Channeled immobilize on a 6 with 4 dice+ Crown of Morgul reroll. Since I have no burrow weights he decided to resist with 2 points of will since he doesn't want to get minced by the witch king with Morgul blade. The first roll comes up a 3 and on a 4+ I eat an additional will point with the Dwimm. I then channel a wither into the Borimir on 2 dice and he's -2 strength the rest of the game.
The other factor is that if the Witch King is part of the army or you have a heavy hitter more points of fate can be eaten up super fast to save a wound from the Morgul blade or from monsters or other kill potential threats. There is a reason this model comes with no might if he could heroic channel we would be completely broken.
I see what you’re saying. The Dwimmerlaik definitely has rules that combo well with other casters in Angmar, he’s just very expensive for what he is. Unfortunately the trend with this game is whenever a profile gets nerfed it’s always overdone. If we were talking the previous edition in the game, he would be near the top for me. But in the current edition he got hit harder than the other wraiths, where a Will needs to be spent on their ability for that turn, the Dwimmerlaik has to spent a Will each time a hero spends a resource… not only that but it only works 50% of the time. If Dwimmerlaik only had to spend 1 Will per turn, he would be ranked 3rd or 4th for me.
-Charles
@@intothewestpodcast Yeah IDK about this logic he's 120 points for 16 points of Will & 2 fate - a standard ring wraith to get this costs 110 pts - and it doesn't come with an irresistible 4+ Sap 1 might/will/fate Grimma ability. Also, the rule says "may elect" to not have to spend a point of will so you don't have to. If you Merk someone's general because you 4 dice sap will them and then +4 ur ability on the will points you can have at their general the rest of the game. I'm not sure the other ring wraiths really give as much tactical potential to out-grind as much as the Dwimm does, I will have to re-watch and see what you guys saw in the other candidates.
You do make some solid arguments. I’d say in that comparison what a generic wraith has on the Dwimmerlaik is having heroic march without taking a captain, being able to have 2 Might (IMO a steal for 10 points), and the option to take fewer Will points for a budget caster and cheap way to get Harbringer. Where would you rank the Dwimmerlaik out of the 9?
-Charles
@@intothewestpodcast
1. Witch King - Dual Role (Redundancy tech).
2. Dark Marshal: (Redundancy Tech) Only other wraith with a 4+ instill fear, banner effect for warriors.
3. Standard Ringwraith - March + 1 Heroic Channel of Choice, can substitute a warrior for more magic & keep march.
4. Shadow Lord: (Anti Shooting Tech) Better the more elite your troops are/maybe BIS with a troll or other monster vs shooting armies.
5. Dwimmerlaik: (Facilitation) Strips resources for other models to take the glory in later turns.
6. Tainted: (Cavalry Tech) Stops heroic moves bogging down models in a heavy cav list or anything else that doesn't want to be charged.
7. Betrayer & Kammuel: Easterlings/Harad force multiplier (probably shouldn't even be in a list with other wraiths tbh)
8. The Undying: (General Kill Point Denial) Perhaps useful for picking up objectives.
9. Knight of Umbar: (Anti Monster Tech)