Cooper Stuff Ep. 199 - What is Deconstruction and Why it’s Dangerous w/ Alisa Childers
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- Опубликовано: 11 фев 2024
- Alisa Childers joins the show to discuss her new book, “The Deconstruction of Christianity.” This episode is packed full of extremely important material. We discuss the differing definitions of the term “deconstruction,” and why Alisa believes that Christians should use the word “reformation” instead. These can be two very different concepts. Today's episode is so relevant and anyone who has been confused about deconstruction will undoubtedly benefit greatly by watching.
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Gotta shout out to Wimpy Weak and Woke. That book is INCREDIBLE. Every Christian needs to read it and keep it on their shelf. Such a valuable asset. I read very scholarly theology, and I didn't have high expectations (sorry, John) but I have to put this up there as a TOP TIER theological book. Much needed.
Here is an example I use when people say "God wants me to be happy, so therefore I can do whatever I want."
I have a 4 year old son. He wants to play with knives because that makes him happy. Well of course I'm not going to let him do that. He may be upset initially, but he learns that knives are harmful.
Same goes for the Bible. God knows what's best for us. He is our heavenly father. We may not like what he has to say at first, but we learn his ways are right and protect us as we come to know and love him. Just as children love their parents and want to make them happy, I love my God and want to make him happy. He knows what's best for us because he created us.
Love your podcasts, John! Keep up the fine work you're doing!
This analogy only works so far. Your example is direct physical or mental harm. It makes sense when X and Y can be seen in a legitimate harmful way.
I also explain in everyday possible to my child so they understand and don't have to learn from a mistake.
The problem with using god and humans in this analogy is first we must be concerned where god put his word down and then accept that it is true.
With god and the bible, there are multiple fronts who claim their reading amd interpretation is the "true" one amd the others are false.
How can I go back tommy faith when every church seems more self-serving than actually doing godly things?
Every church does mot produce godly works, and there is a vast disconnect that is never dealt with. Just more churches and denominations popping up.
Hoping "Sword & Shield" will continue...🙂
So do I.
Linguists call what has happened to the word deconstruction and many others for that matter as being “skunked”. It makes using a word impossible because you can’t guarantee your hearer defines it the way you do.
It's interesting how all the more mainstream Christian artists who wrote marketable worship music are the ones more likely to fall away and deconstruct, meanwhile people like Cooper who have non-traditional Christian music that legalistic churches would label as "satanic" are the ones with the most solid faith. People who don't compromise and don't try to water themselves down to be more "consumer-friendly" are the ones who remain. They know what they believe and why.
Deconstruction is the unfortunate combination of church hurt, postmodern culture, false doctrine, and lack of wisdom or guidance.
Critical examination of the Bible and Christianity has led me to a much deeper and richer faith. Deconstructionism claims to be a critical examination, but it is merely an excuse people use to alleviate their guilt of living a sinful life.
For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 2nd Peter 2:21
I was encouraging the deconstructionists for a bit since I am a firm believer in the Bible's teaching to test all things, to keep that which is good. but I eventually realized the deconstructionists never tested their own thoughts and never found their own beliefs faulty. they were blatantly ignoring things. so I cannot encourage that.
@charlesjdickerson1010 exactly, also, deconstruction literally means to take apart. You should never take something apart until after you have examined it and determined why it was built in the first place.
Deconstruction is simply leaning on your own understanding. The first fatal mistake.
So how do we do a legit reform without doing an arbitrary deconstruction? I’m asking because I think the church, like Pharisees, picked up a few bad traditions over the last 2,000 years but those traditions have become sacrosanct. Does that make sense?
@@codyowen Use the bible as your guide. Many of the traditions arent bad per se, but sometimes we pick up non-biblical ideals that taint our faith. I watch a lot of theology videos that help me check my own faith and encourage me to go deeper in The Word.
Great topic! Thanks for thinking through and clarifying this murky trend.
My deconstruction period was very healthy and I recommend every believer do the same. We should test everything to the Word. We dont want have traditions that cause us to worship in vain. What would your walk look like if you found a Bible on an island and you had no knowledge of Christianity or church history? That's what I want my walk to look like.
RUclips is shadow-banning Cooper from my notification feed 😢
Gotta be diligent in sharing 1:1
Excellent interview. Already reading Johns book and need to get hers too
Great episode. Thanks guys.
Received my copy of wimpy weak and woke this week!
Great episode! Reading your book John and then Alisa’s. We just need more godly men who understand the cultural moment! I think they used to be called men of Issachar…. I think we could use some of them. Keep preaching and praying and maybe more will rise up!
Mr. Cooper , I'm watching Ep.199, I'm loving all that is being said! Can you explain your Cooper stuff poster on the wall behind you? I find it confusing based on your beliefs. No harm intended, just curious. I must be missing something. God Bless you and you podcast! So needed content!
I’m curious, what do you find questionable about it?
Have read Live Your Own Truth & Other Lies as well Another Gospel by Alisa. Both are fantastic! Will order her new one asap as well as John's book! GOD BLESS YOU BOTH
What a fantastic title for a book.
Very useful! I would also suggest listening to some talks by James Lindsay, he's not a Christian but he has alot of insight on these post modernist schools of thought and how to resist them, it's very key to understand how they twist language and fool people with words, 'deconstruction' is just one more to add to the list.
Words are very important and powerful. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. Words mean things. You have to be careful just as you said.
Hey John !!!
Doing the work most Christian leaders won’t do.
Day 1 of asking for 2 episodes of cooper stuff a week
Yuri Bezmenov explained the demoralization phase of the communist takeover of America. It began however before the federal reserve bank was established.
Hi
Discussion at 43-44 minutes regarding people who met Jesus “and never killed themselves.” I think he forgot Judas. 🤦🏼♀️
Funny, that it was Judas’ own guilt, as a result of his own actions, the result of his own choices, that motivated his final demise. It certainly wasn’t because Jesus condemned him.
👍
Interesting that you blame social media instead of decades of watered-down preaching and scandal within the church.
THIS. They are so off base here!
👊💥👏👏👏👏👏😎🙏
Nothing wrong with deconstruction. I’ve had deconstruct many of the false doctrines taught by the church. Now I have a better understanding of who God and his messiah are.
I’d like to know more about this. Can you provide one example of a false teaching you deconstructed and what your conclusion was?
@@codyowen the God of the Bible is not triune
@@cc3775 ok. Sure. Why does he call himself Elohim?
@@codyowen who calls himself Elohim?
@@cc3775 Oh, I thought you said you studied. Guess not. Good to know 👍
Hey john!
I listened to your music for a long time
Away from the talent, i liked that you’re mentioning the bible alot, it’s pretty similar to islamic teachings
Ever considered looking into reading quraan😁 i know for sure would be shocking to you
Interesting. Deconstruction doesn't care where you go or what you believe it ONLY cares that you leave the truth of Jesus Christ or at the very least twist it.
I seem to remember a certain snake in Genesis who had a similar goal...
Hard to imagine a truly saved Christian who knows Jesus and is known by Jesus falling away so easily. They are letting the flesh overpower the Spirit
What famous Christian book on sexual ethics that blamed Christians for people killing themselves was he talking about?
Now, Post-Deconstruction is a thing. I hope the deconstructionists repent. Good episode, John.
Seriously, dude. The Bible didn't cover everybody's story. How does the author know that nobody killed themselves? I'd ask him if he was a time traveler.
R.R. is big mad at you. He frequently looses his temper over it.
I deconstructed and left the faith. I think I made the correct decision
She did go off of her feelings when she told false report of Kenneth Copeland being just like Richard rohr
It's also just like with Calvinists..they don't care that their theology is incomplete, they don't care about true Biblical original intent.
A big part of why there is so much deconstruction and abandoning of the faith, in the western reformed religious church, is because there is not an emphasis on the entire Gospel. There is not an importance placed upon fostering a life that has miracles and signs that point back to Jesus Being Who He Is and Him just simply loving and delighting in us.
It's all become too much like spitting back information like a computer. If I hadn't experienced miracles and signs accompanying, I would probably be in the gay lifestyle or bisexual
The religious version of positive peer pressure, has helped to create generations of weak Christians. I was never taught to go with flow during my childhood years, especially in the churches. And as a result, on my own, I will never be turned from following Jesus
Copeland is a false teacher along with all positive confession/ word of faith teachers. Basically a mind- science cult.
"There is not an importance placed upon fostering a life that has miracles and signs that point back to Jesus Being Who He Is and Him just simply loving and delighting in us."
We don't need that, we have the entire word of God. Like Jesus said, an "evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign".
When you say you believe in Jesus, what do you mean by that?
@@dadblogCA which generation was Jesus referring to? One that seeks after a sign and not after Him. A generation that seems after proof when Jesus Is the proof. If you think that everybody who defends signs and miracles happening, is lusting for such things, then you have a very carnal method of interpreting the Word. Jesus, the Master, the Savior, the King of kings and the Lord of lords, never placed a cessationism on His kingdom. He told us in His Word that "of His kingdom there shall be no end".
Believers are supposed to be moving forward in Jesus Christ, and not to be saved and stuck without power from Him. Jesus didn't die so that we would become stuck in theology and us miss the culture around us..yet many are and many could tell you the words of the works of men, rather than have such a relationship with the Living Historical Jesus Christ, that if they were engulfed in flames, they would want to run and become born again
@@dominiclapinta8537 You didn't answer my question. What does "believing in Jesus" mean?
@@dadblogCA you asked "what do you mean by that?" You didn't ask what does it mean. But I will answer your second question then, the one that asks, what does it mean, to believe in Jesus.
Believing in Jesus, is to believe that He Is Who He says He Is. The Only Begotten Son of the Most High God, Who came and lived and died and raised Himself from the dead, so that we could know Him and the Only True God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The True and Living God, the Only One Who has power to save and deliver. The Only God worth serving. the Only Living God.
You guys are doing the same thing as the other “side”. Changing the meanings of words. I was raised in a legalistic church. The kind I have heard Ms. Childers and you half joke about, and she has gone so far as in an older episode, to say she did not feel “really existed”. “Deconstruction” is the only word applicable to what i am going through. There is too much to “disentangle” and “reform” does not begin to describe it. I was raised that the two of your music was literally sending people to Hell. There truly is no other word for what some people are going through, than deconstruction. Now, not only have progressives stolen that word from us, it is becoming forbidden. I heard a lot of “use a word that applies” i posit that for many people you an not acquainted with, who want a fundamental, true Christian relationship with Christ, who NEED to deconstruct. Perhaps “dismantle” would be acceptable, but i can assure you, my faith has and is being disassembled and reassembled. Not reformed. You cannot reform what was broken. Many Christians are broken, and need to rebuilt. For that, there must be deconstruction. It feels like you guys completely ignore this sect of people for whom i am apart. And it IS requiring a rejection of authority. For the record, i was raised Baptist, not an obscure sect in the mountains. I listen to you guys to learn, not argue, but you guys are really not considering the actual lasting spiritual trauma people experience, even today. This is not something i talk about much, i have described my spiritual status outloud in any way, this is not an ongoing debate i have with anyone. Just my own experience. First traumatized by the church, then unable to talk about it for fear of using the wrong word. And that fear stems from you two. So i mean atta boy? I am too afraid to share my testimony over contention of a word. It is almost like trauma with a side of fear. Do ya’ll just forget that “deconstruct” is required for some people? Some people really do hit rock bottom, and start taking it apart. Piece. By tiny piece. And putting it back. What about us?
Have you thought about possibly using Bible terminology to describe things? Also, I'm curious, have you looked up the word deconstruction and looked up the definition of reformation? This may prove very helpful.
The definition of deconstruction, is a philosophy that seeks to criticize certainty, identity, and truth. if you say you are deconstructing your eschatology, that is one thing, but if you are deconstructing your views on moral doctrines in scripture, doctrines on morality, that is called apostasy.
It seems that most who "deconstruct" are fearful how much the Church is all of a sudden being hated by the world and so they want the world to back off and not persecute them. So they start to say things like "that was for Paul's day and I don't think such and such thing is a sin now in our time." This is severely dangerous.
Do you mind to say what you feel the need to deconstruct in your Christianity? I'm sincerely asking and not being mean at all.
Wow that’s a lot to unpack. Big vent.
I think I hear some of what you’re saying. There are a lot of broken people in church leadership that shouldn’t be.
I too challenged, not my faith, but the organized religion of Christianity. I just stopped going to church about 2 decades ago because it’s more about the club.
Church as we know it today is a man made organization and should be questioned always.
But I hope you can also hear John’s larger point, which is not that you should not go on your own journey of growth and recovery, but that many people are abusing this concept of deconstruction, not to reform the church but to arbitrarily pick and choose which scripture they want to live by.
I left church but never left God’s word. The deconstructionists John’s referring to are leaving the word and then using that to deconstruct the church.
I do hear the point, which is why i listen to what John cooper and Ms Childers say, and for the most part i agree. However, this vehement denial that deconstruction is necessary for some people to FIND God, NOT religion. The dogmatic attitude, and refusing to accept that the word exists and is applicable is exactly what the world does to Christians, when it lumps all Christians as orange haired truno supporters wearing maga hats. How many testimonies are missed out because the testifier “deconstructed”? How many people are steered away from God when told they can question, but not deconstruct? The dogmatism around the word is mind blowing, and reminiscent of the attitude given when i wanted to listen to Chris Tomlin in my teens. For the record, my baptist church was fully behind burning the music by not only Mr Cooper, Ms Childers and chris tomlin. And visiting ministers swore they had seen demons leaving their music
What part of recovering from THAT and rebuilding should NOT be deconstruction and reconstruction?
My only issue the dogmatic attitude. Here we are to stand for Christ -unless you deconstructed, thats a dirty word.
I
@@Themelancholypianoi cannot begin to unpack my religious past in a comment
I was raised “independant fundamental, Bible Believing, pre millenial, pre tribulation BAPTIST” (per my old pastor) and that appearances matter above all else, and that by even listening to Mr Cooper or Ms Childer’s I am proving i am not saved, for their music is of the world, as evidenced by the worldly beats (southern gospel and hymns only) and my husband has dealt with me in tears after listening to some of the podcasts, because they touch me so deeply, and i am terrified, because it was hammered into me that these specific people were sending people to hell, and is not the fact their words are comforting proving the point? Because i was told thats what they did. Make people feel good about themselves, all misguidedly used by the devil.
@@stephanielayton4698 You are not alone. I think there are doctrines of men in liberal and conservative churches that are focused entirely on keeping people in mental bondage. You will get through this. You are strong enough 🙏
I'm shocked. John, YOU are the reason I'm deconstructing right now! You're always talking about the corruption of many churches, Christian artists, Christian movements, pastors etc and encouraging people to look to the Bible. Yet now you're promoting a woman who has NO IDEA what deconstructing reatlly is, nor does she seem to have any experience with those going through this.
What makes me sick about deconstruction is that she will completely avoid placing any of the blame on religion or churches. Like hello. People wouldn't need to deconstruct if the churches weren't becoming toxic. Just gonna avoid all the abuse and trama going around? But naturally, shes gonna guilt trip and blame game the ones deconstructing, rather than the cause.
#LetUsPray
#blindeyemovement
You see over and over in the Bible where Jesus says "you have heard them say.... but I tell you" Maybe learn WHY people are deconstructing from the church. It's because the church isn't doing and teaching like it's supposed to
I encourage people to see what deconstructing REALLY is rather than the false view this woman is promoting.
They clearly define the term deconstruction, and they repeatedly state that questioning and testing doctrines and philosophy is good.
Deconstruction is about ignoring the foundation, scripture, and incorporating some other source to justify whatever choice you want to make that suits your situation.
Deconstruction is about subjecting scripture to one’s personal preferences.
John is not deconstructing. He’s confronting woke liberal ideas that are being used to lead Christians away from truth.
And that is exactly what it sounds like you are doing. If you are making personal, doctrinal transitions that conflict with scripture then you are deconstructing, and you are abandoning real truth for your truth.
Christians, let me say something to y’all - we view this as pathetic. We view apologetics as embarrassing. Several of us openly invite Alisa and John to live conversations but they always decline because they know we can point out their flaws. Do NOT listen to these people
Who cares what you think though? I mean honestly, you just wrote "the Bible isn't the word of god its people" in another comment. Nobody needs to debate you, this is stupidity. People who are 400x smarter than you have tried tearing apart the Bible over the last 2000 years and have failed, you're just another nobody on RUclips who thinks they've got "new insight", and when you're proven wrong, you're not going to repent and change your mind. Nobody cares if you think it's "embarrassing", nobody is trying to impress you. And if you deny Christ, you're gonna be like every other person that said "the Bible isn't the word of god", dead and forgotten in the end.
Who’s we?
@@codyowen"...Legion, for we are many." Mark 5:9
They adhere to the doctrine of demons.
@@renegadeoftruth2891 Perhaps 🤷🏼♂️
Some people aren’t great at live debate. There are plenty of apologists that do live debate.
The Bible isn’t the word of god it’s people
The Bible is God's Word. Many people just don't want to believe it because it speaks against humanity's sinful nature.
Deconstruction is idolatry. Period.
Because questioning God is bad?
I don't think you know what deconstructing really is lol. You wanna pretend like you shouldn't question what a church or pastor says then thats on you... but heads up, not all of them preach truth.
@@ZaryasBestFriendUm no. Rejecting scripture and trying to rebuild doctrine based entirely on one’s own whim is bad. That’s deconstruction.
@@rivershere01Deconstruction is not about questioning your pastor, it’s about rejecting scripture and then trying to question your pastor and reform the church according to whatever one wishes. That’s deconstruction.
NO. That's YOUR version of deconstruction. Last time I checked, we're not members of the Catholic church. I don't follow a pope. Leaders should be questioned and churches should be held to scrutiny WITHIN the context of scripture/Church history. If you deconstruct, i.e. question to further find evidence of what's true, you're actually strengthening your faith, not harming it. In contrast, you're advocating for people to have blind obedience. I'm saying you should question SO your faith is stronger. Ideally, this takes place in a trusted community of faith where you're reaffirming what's true--not going on a witch-hunt to disprove it. @@codyowen
Ex-husband (pastor) started process of deconstruction for various reasons, not happy in marriage (to me), fully deconstructed so he could divorce me without feeling guilt, but still wanted vestiges of faith so he married liberal (postmodern) female pastor. Win win. 🫤 Exactly the scenario you discussed.
I’ve been through several instances where pastors felt they were owed an affair, so they had one. Sad.