Cultish: Deconstruction: Understanding the "Ex-Evangelical" Movement W/Alisa Childers
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2024
- Join us for this fascinating conversation with former CCM artist Alisa Childers. What began as an interview to discuss her new book "Live Your Truth & Other Lies" turned into an in depth conversation about the modern deconstruction/ex evangelical movement.
What is the underlying postmodern worldview behind those deconstructing & why does this movement have such a strong religious overtone?
Tune In To Find out!
You can find more about Alisa Childers at alisachilders....
This episode is also brought to you by higherbond.com...
Be sure to like, share, and comment on this video.
You can get more at apologiastudios... :
You can partner with us by signing up for All Access. When you do you make everything we do possible and you also get our TV show, After Show, and Apologia Academy, etc. You can also sign up for a free account to receive access to Bahnsen U. We are re-mastering all the audio and video from the Greg L. Bahnsen PH.D catalogue of resources. This is a seminary education at the highest level for free.
#ApologiaStudios
Follow us on social media here:
Facebook: / apologiastudios
Instagram: www.instagram....
Check out our online store here:
shop.apologias...
Do you want more exclusive content from Apologia Studios? Subscribe to Apologia All Access for that, and more! From podcasts to live shows, seminary training to behind-the-scenes, All Access has it all! Click here for more info!
www.apologiastudios.com/subscriptions
As the parent of an adult child in full deconstruction, who is claiming she was raised in an “abusive cult” and wants no contact with her father or I, this was extremely helpful. This revelation from her just came a few days ago and we are so raw, angry, hurt and guilt-ridden. This discussion really helped me see things more clearly and offered some hope to a very dark situation. Thank you
Well… are those statements your kid made true? My guess is they are.
Alisa has really been eye opening for me over the past few years: especially during Covid. Covid was my time to get reconnected with Christ, apologetics, and my faith, such a great guest.
Same here
Alisa’s book “Live Your Truth and Other Lies” is one of the best (and, I think, most important) books I read in a long time! It’s one that every believer (and even every non-believer) should read!
Agreed!!👏🏼
Give me an example of one thing that she said that was useful.
@@LindeeLove one example? That “live your truth” is nonsensical, because truth is objective (either something is or isn’t), not subjective.
Great episode! I love Alisa Childers. I appreciate that she communicated the truth boldly yet kindly.
Alisa is right! There is a huge flux of 30 somethings who grew up on the cusp of the Internet boom who are working hard to hold onto the "before" time, and raising their children outside of today's chaos as much as possible.
I guess because of my age I’ve never heard of this “ deconstruction” agenda! It seems to fall along the same lines as deconstructing the family, deconstructing what we’ve held to be true, deconstructing, whatever, also including traditional Christianity… Am I on track?
Yes
Yes, it’s a dismantling of all that’s true.
Basically. I've seen it used most often with people who have fallen away from the faith and now accept heresies and things directly contrary to the teachings.
Excellent show. I have read, Another Gospel, and started, Live Your Truth and Other Lies. So good. Amazing! So full of Truth!
The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible
Wow! I just got in a conversation with my housemate yesterday. And I told him that I don't care about a persons opinion of me! So many people care about what people think about them. I don't care!
I remember reading 1984 and thinking “no way! This would never happen” too. The erasing of news and changing it… we’ve seen this.
Orwell was agnostic and intensely anti-Catholic.
Wow, what a breath of fresh air! Great truths shared by the 3 of you, thanks so much.
When I hear about deconstruction, I'm reminded of a quote from the late Tim Keller... To paraphrase, he said: *When a young adult comes to me and starts bringing up these contradictions in the Bible, I usually find myself asking that person, "What's their name and how long have you been sleeping with them?"* This is so, so, so accurate to this very day.
Been following Alisa’s work for a good bit now. She is fantastic! Thanks!
Alisha Childers is a trusted source for sharing the truth. I love her!
Loved this episode. Alisa is brilliant.
Amazing episode. Thanks again Alisa and Cultish Crew! 🕊️
Thanks you all. God Blessed You all
Great advice from Alisa on how to engage with them
True situation. About 30 years ago I was invited by a precious Christian lady to come and have dinner at her home and share the gospel with her husband who was dying. During the dinner, not just her husband but his best friend received Jesus Christ as their savior. The couple were so blessed they asked us to visit them on a regular basis and share the Word of God with them. We became very very close to that family and enjoyed many wonderful moments with the extended family. about 5 years ago, One of the spouses became involved in a special statewide program for up-and-coming leaders. That person dedicated themselves every weekend to attending conferences on how to be successful. Somewhere along the line they began to drift away from solid Biblical principles and I began to engage them via the Internet. That was when I first heard the word Deconstruction. that they had joined this new group of Highly Successful and educated people that were reviewing the Bible to establish what they really believed. in fact, it became a leading away from the word of God as being the authoritative Source in their lives. As you mentioned on the show, my friend established their own private group that was interested in pursuing the deconstruction progrm and I was eliminated from the conversation. What went from a loving relationship has now dissolved the one that is non-existent and I am now seen as an enemy to that couple.
Love this podcast -- don't love the response to people being called back to the land, connecting it to Marxism and wokeism. There are nuts in every trend but by and large, the "homesteading" or self-sufficiency trend is a rejection of wokeism/Marxism.
Great point about those deconstructing saying that they're being shunned. There's always two sides to a story but the slander on social media always paints orthodox Christianity as evil and hypocritical
This was awesome! Some of my favorite people to listen to right here!
It's no surprise that, in a consumerist society like the U.S., a self-centered secularism would (like the self-centered New Age movement and the self-centered Prosperity "Gospel") be marketed and sold to people who don't even CONSIDER putting others first. Even heroism and self sacrifice are marketed by figures like Jordan Peterson along self centered, Joseph Campbell-like lines ("be the hero of your own story" etc). American Evangelicalism had similar issues, in its obsessive focus on individuals and their sins as opposed to the Christian community as a whole and the privilege of service to others in a spirit of gratitude.
This was an incredible podcast! Alisa hit EVERY nail right on the head when it comes to this topic! Very insightful!
Fascinating topic, great interview! Thx
De conversion, truly means there was never a real conversion in the first place!🙏❤️.
Hmm. I disagree. De- means to undo something. You can't desalinate water without salt already being present.
It’s the Reformed’s way of saying he lost his salvation without saying he lost his salvation. Because can’t believe that could ever happen. OSAS.
I left pentecostalism coz I was sick of strange doctrines and the gospel of success and money.
That's a specific subset of pentecostals, not all. Remember that it was originally based on pentecost in Acts, not money.
Same here.
@@brittanym58 Acts 2 "speaking in tongues," refers to HUMAN LANGUAGES. Like if I was to visit a Chinese church, and gave a prophecy in Mandarin; NOT KNOWING a word in Mandarin whatsoever; that would be a true form of "speaking in tongues."
Or if I was to do the same in Arabic, NOT KNOWING Arabic; and a gentleman in my church with a Muslim background who speaks Arabic were to interpret;... that to would be speaking in tongues.
The mind fuckery going on in Charismatic/ Pentecostal/ Word of Faith/ or New Apostolic Reformation "churches," is NOT the "speaking in tongues, mighty rushing wind," we see in Acts 2. Hence the verse, "how are these Galileans speaking out language, not knowing any of it!?"
And when Paul asked, "if I speak in tongues of men AND OF ANGELS," he was using hyperbole. There is no other mentioned of "tongues of angels" written in scripture.
Furthermore; everything God needs to communicate to us, is already written in His Word. So I fail to see why tongues would be needed in the here and now.
@@brittanym58 💯agree
I must not be exposed to any of this deconstructionism or any of these influencers because I've never heard of this, good for me I guess
Did God make us perfectly in His image or no? Did ‘the fall’ happen when the lie of not being made in His image was believed? Did Jesus sacrifice cover us all of us? So the entire statement that we are not good is just a continuation of believing and buying into the original lie. We’ve all just stopped believing that and are living in our true identity and freedom in Christ. I pray God’s truth continue to be brought into clear view for all of us.
Many things done in the name of Jesus is not of Jesus. Because good people stood by and neither said or did nothing.
True
Religious belief--and unbelief--is never entirely intellectual. There is always a corresponding emotional investment. Those who "walk away" from Christianity have had their expectations of God crushed, and their apostasy is a reaction. In other words, their faith wasn't about glorifying God but rather about having their felt needs met.
This might be a radical thought... but I'm pretty sure Jesus hasn't lost a single sheep to the deconstruction movement. Noone ever had Jesus as their mediator one day, deconstructed, and lost him as their mediator the next.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."
Why are we giving this movement so much credit? At the start of Covid lockdowns, I had begun "deconstructing" my faith. One day, while running in the park, I came across a small local church that was meeting there. I stopped to listen, some men invited me to come back. A week later, the pastor invited me to breakfast and I started regurgitating some of the nonsense I'd come to believe about the historicity of the Bible, the church etc. You know, the Jordan Petersonesque "the Bible is true but it's not really true it only contains truth yadayadayada." The pastor stopped me, mid thought and said, "No. The Bible is true." And I believed him.
Now, I was raised in a Christian home and genuinely loved the Lord for as long as I can remember. But once I went to college and was bombarded with the indoctrination, I quickly "fell away". Never denied God. But I did find myself starting to believe what I now understand to be heresies. My faith was genuine but it was weak.
If I'd never started to question my beliefs, I never would have accepted their invitation. The enemy was hell bent on using my doubt to get me to turn away from the faith. But praise God, the Lord was able to use even my sinful doubt for my good.
I wouldn't recommend we start preaching the usefulness of doubt from the pulpit. But I think we need to trust God in his sovereignty to save and sanctify his people no matter what "movement" or fad is making its way through the culture. The true believer, in the end, will never go full apostate but God might allow them to be turned over for a while so that they might be granted repentance.
I can't speak for everyone who ever deconstructed. But I tried pretty hard to convince myself that liberal Christianity was true. And Yah was like "nah." Since that day in the park I can't think of a time when my thoughts weren't bombarded by how good he is to his people even when we go astray.
Thank you for your story. I deconstructed penal substitution, eternal damnation, and predestination. This has helped me greatly in my walk of faith in Christ.
Agree. It just causes worry and stress...
God keeps what is His.
The people I know who have deconstructed definitely have greater faith in the Word of God now. They had to deconstruct the western church thing. It was their hunger for God that made them need to deconstruct “church” ..
Praise God for that pastor speaking truth with authority.
@@levans3447 Amen.
Alisa is awesome
Interesting, (puzzling maybe) Alicia's quoting Josh Harris.
I hope the pendulum will swing the other way, but I don’t believe in secluding ourselves from the world (like the Amish or the cult communes).
John10:29NKJV"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. "
Note please that the GOD and Father of our Lord is greater than ALL ,not most others, and thus has NO co equals.
I made it another 20 minutes in....
"my kids think that way but not because im indoctrinating them."
"maybe it happens that I think that way about America."
"my kids feel that anxiousness about the world."
very interesting.
And then, is Jonestown really truly "progressive christianity"???????
I really liked your video about the Duggars and how homeschooling is potentially harmful. I appreciated your critique of Bill Gothard. it made me really hopeful about this show.
but as someone who left the American church for historical, doctrinal reasons as well as abuse, its really frustrating seeing reactionary grifters appropriate peoples experiences and use them to reinforce White Christian Nationalism.
the table is set. we are here and willing to engage with you. when you're ready to talk about real issues like trans erasure, climate crisis, and Christian Nationalism, feel free to come join us. In the meantime, while you sit at the kids table and use code language to talk about the culture war, us big kids are gonna be doing real work to help the homeless, heal abuse, and create hope for the future.
What do you mean when you say white Christian nationalism? Genuinely curious
People who think Christianity is from Europe not knowing most came from Africa it’s a false liberal saying
Christianity in Africa first arrived in Egypt in approximately 50 AD. By the end of the 2nd century it had reached the region around Carthage. In the 4th century, the Aksumite empire in modern-day Ethiopia and Eritrea became one of the first regions in the world to adopt Christianity as its official religion. The Nubian kingdoms of Nobatia, Makuria and Alodia followed two centuries later. From the late fifth and early sixth century, the region included several Christian Berber kingdoms.[1] Important Africans who influenced the early development of Christianity and shaped the doctrines of Christianity include Tertullian, Perpetua, Felicity, Clement of Alexandria, Origen of Alexandria, Cyprian, Athanasius and Augustine of Hippo.[2][3]
I am not sure how people can read Saint Polycarp or the The Quinque viæ (Latin for "Five Ways") (sometimes called "five proofs") are five logical arguments for the existence of God summarized by the 13th-century Catholic philosopher and theologian Thomas Aquinas in his book , or Summa Theologica or Confessions (Latin: Confessiones) is an autobiographical work by Saint Augustine, consisting of 13 books written in Latin between AD 397 and 400 and become atheist. I think the real reason people deconstruct is not learning the church history and reading the church fathers, The early Church Fathers fall into three basic categories: Apostolic Fathers, ante-Nicene Church Fathers, and post-Nicene Church Fathers.
The Apostolic Church Fathers were contemporaries of the apostles and were probably taught by them, carrying on the tradition and teaching of the apostles themselves as their direct successors. Examples of Apostolic Fathers include Clement and Polycarp.
The Ante-Nicene Fathers were those who came after the Apostolic Fathers and before the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. Irenaeus and Justin Martyr are Ante-Nicene Fathers.
The Post-Nicene Church Fathers include Fathers after the Council of Nicaea, such as Augustine, John Chrysostom, Jerome, and Eusebius. I believe that You can’t rely on the bible alone that is not going to convince people questioning their faith (but I get that you may not believe that, I am not Protestant) but this is just my thoughts , the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and Anglo Catholics have the bible, tradition/history and church Fathers.
@@annb9029 i see a lot of content but I cant gather any meaning from what you said
What do yall think about Jesse Lee Peterson? He's fake in my opinion but what about Isaiah saldivar?? I agree with most of what he says but something seems off to be honest. Please look into these men 🙏
rapture anxiety moment
When you walk in the light Calvinism that's no place in your life
All I would lovingly ask them is " what if you are wrong ?". Only the Holy Spirit can reach them and if they were ever truly saved God will not let them go without revealing to them the truth of where they are choosing to go. Praying these will repent lest they become reprobate and lead more astray. They really are treading on thin ice.
This is terrifying! Man thinking he knows more than God. Christianity does not exist without Christ and the cross and resurrection and who he is and what he says. The Bible says God is sovereign, penal substitutionary atonement is true, all people are equal and made in God’s image, we are all wicked sinners from birth by nature because of the fall, all people deserve hell but God is merciful and gracious and made only one way through his Son on the cross through repentance and faith in Christ alone. If we do not like it or accept it, we are being very sinful and must repent or perish!🙏❤️.
I disagree my friend.
Feeds pride
I Hate, yes hate this current world!!!
I think you are misrepresenting Derrida. One of Derrida's points is a word is not the thing. It is a symbol of the thing. The word "rose" is not the "rose" itself. All language is a second-degree description rather than a direct experience of the thing. (Augustine taught the same thing in On Christian Doctrine). In fact, even Thomas Aquinas, when speaking of God, understood that any language around the concept of God is analogical. It is ok to not agree with someone and not like their ideas, but be sure to present their actual ideas before criticizing them.
Also, there is a deep irony in your quoting the nature of a cult and reading the words of Jesus, who says, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple."
The common theme seems to be that people are not objectively truthseeking and that they are hurt.
Word salad episode !!!
Depends how you view deconstruction. I deconstructed eternal damnation, penal substitution, and predestination because all these 3 interpretations are false and unbiblical.
🤡
@@rockycomet4587 I can see you take the word of God seriously. Good job. I'm really proud of you.
@@Ajsirb24 LOL, I'm not the one denying the biblical doctrines of eternal damnation, penal substitution, and predestination.
@@rockycomet4587 Read the Greek and come back to me later. That's the original language of the new testament, God's revealed word of Jesus Christ.
@@Ajsirb24 I have several good translations of the Greek Into English.
Christianity is dying.
The age of islam
has come.
Until you listen to a debate and realize the Quran is full of holes.
@@nicholasgee9127 Islam is perfect. The Quran says so. Why do you question God's word? Infidel.
I question it because Mohammed was an obvious false prophet. Historical knowledge is not Islam's strong point
@@nicholasgee9127 The Quran is the word of God. Are you smarter than God? No you are not. Therefore, just believe.
@@ndjarnag
Yeah about that. History is not on Islam's side. Look into the origins of your prophet
Sounds like blasphemying of the Word of God
How do you blaspheme a book? I do t mean to be rude but that seems like Father, Son, and Holy Scripture type thing.
I should've time stamped it, but if you tune in at about 27 mins into the video, she talks about a girl twisting the Word, like the pharisee that said Jesus was doing the work of Satan through the Holy spirit. Secondly, the Word is known as the Son. Also, I'd correct you and say, Father, Word, Holy spirit. Does that make sense?
@@milesrupert4815 I hadn’t gotten there yet, so forgive me. And yeah that is horrible misuse of the Bible!
The Word is not known as the son in the sense of the scripture. The Word became the Son at the incarnation. The word of God and the Word are very different. One is a member of the Trinity and the other is a collection of inspired texts.
I was commenting on how some people tend to idolize the scriptures and ignore the Holy Spirit. The term I used is just a catchy way of implying that.
@@ArcticBlits I appreciate your kindness and I agree, too. Haha but just to push you on that the inspired collection of texts, id want to say, it's God's breathed word. Therefore, it's the Word, signifying Jesus also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't mind hashing this out I'm all ears.
@@milesrupert4815 I think we will have to agree to disagree here, I see your point and I think it’s understandable. But just because the Bible is God breathed doesn’t mean it’s equal to or directly tied into Christ.