Thanks Cooper. My heart is broken for Kmax. I've been saved since 95 and grew up with DCTalk and Skillet. The western church is failing because it doesn't require repentance of anyone. 40,000 denominations so there is a luke warm flavor for everyone. God's law is to love HIM with all your heart soul and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. I was chewed out by my pastor and deacons for asking why we are participating in Halloween, Easter, and Christmas but don't observe any of God's commanded Feasts and Festivals. I asked the question, "Does God appreciate the sacrifice of our time and resources for Trunk or Treat while we ignore Sukkot?" Whether I'm right or wrong to be against Trunk or Treat, the church is failing if it's afraid to seek the Truth in God's word to answer that question.
I have to admit, John Cooper, has fast become of of my favorite people. Being outspoken is risky, and for that, much respect. I've got a lot of these to catch up on. . .
We will never be like Jesus on this side of eternity! Comparing yourself to perfection invites failure. We are conforming to His image over time, but Jesus is much more than His image.
@@marahnathagilbert4139 hmm,, I may be wrong, but I feel like maybe you missed what he is saying. The more he loves Jesus, the more he wants to be like him. Which is something all of us as christians should be doing anyway ( the word literally means follower of Christ .) He was making the analogy that, the closer he draws to Christ, the more we will come to realize the truth of how truly far away we are from Him. The closer we are to His righteousness, the more we come to realize how truly UN- righteous we are without Him. Again,, forgive me if I misunderstood what you were saying ❤️
I was a 90’s kid and loved dc Talk. I’m not surprised at all about K-max, obvious that he’s been “deconstructed” for many many years now, even back to the end of the dc Talk era. It’s like he’s the living embodiment of their song “My Friend (so long)”.
Now I wonder if Toby and Michael wrote those lyrics with Kevin in mind. And that would explain why Supernatural which that song was on, was the last album DC Talk made.
It is incredibly encouraging to hear so much biblical language, love for Christ and conviction coming from John! Thank you, brother, for your clarity and conviction. You must be a part of a great church!
@Erich Thomas Amen, John gets, and says some things SO clearly!! He’s absolutely right that the closer we get to Jesus -the Jesus of the Bible- the more we understand and FEEL aware of our sin. “ if we love Jesus KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS!!”❤️
Bottom line. Just because someone is in the Christian music industry or has a Christian ministry means nothing. We dont know anyones personal relationship with God just because they are in the spotlight
Just another note, the song “Jesus Freak” was written by Toby Mac. I’m also not surprised by Kevin’s “deconstruction”. When DC Talk broke up he wrote a book of poetry, it was filled with a more universalist and new age message. His solo album also was a wishy, washy album.
We need less topical preaching and more expository preaching. The younger generations, and far too many of us who are older, are biblically illiterate. We need verse by verse study of the entire Bible, so that God's Word is written on our hearts. I believe that would help people connect the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus of the New and help us understand that they are one and the same.
I read the Bible cover to cover multiple times and it was one of the biggest contributors to me becoming an atheist. Might wanna put that on your heart.
My comment was really for those who are already in the church who are drifting away or who are seeing their children do so. I want you to know that you are loved by those you know who are true Believers, whether you are a Believer now or not. People who really love, serve, and believe in Jesus as the one way to a relationship with God pray daily for people we know who don't believe. If reading the Bible drove you to atheism, I will pray that doesn't last. One thing I think helps many is to read some books that help explain the literal fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies about the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. If you can see that those things were literally predicted hundreds or thousands of years before the birth of Christ and were literally fulfilled, maybe you will consider that the rest of the Bible could be true as well. I pray you consider your eternity important enough to study and make sure you want to choose atheism. I hope my response to you comes across as humility and respect for whatever your choice may be. Ultimately we all have to make a decision about where we fall in this. God loves us, and therefore gives us free will.
@@twingo146 If you believe God will condemn me to eternal torture if I’m unconvinced of his existence, I do not believe your motivation is one of love, but of deep fear. No loving god would torture people for eternity. Your compulsion to evangelize stems from a fear of hell first and foremost, and it is why evangelical Christianity is so insidious and all-encompassing. You’re so terrified of burning for eternity that you can’t risk questioning any of the morally abhorrent commandments of YHWH. No loving God would condemn someone to an infinity of torment just because they weren’t convinced in their blip of a life on Earth. There is no justice in that kind of disproportionate punishment.
I'm sorry that's what you believe. Many unbelievers believe the same -- that it's impossible for Believers to truly love God, that our salvation is only "fire insurance." They could not be more wrong, though. Other than His love for us, our love for Him is the purest love anyone could ever know. I think the world hates the exclusivity of salvation, but salvation is only excludes those who are determined to love the world more than they love God. Jesus asks all to come and to take up their cross and follow Him. Believe me, we all had and have sin that we did not / do not want to lay down. Those things are the desires of the flesh. God does not condemn man. Man condemns himself, because He loves himself and his own sin more than anything else. Sadly, there is no one in hell who didn't choose to be there. And I unapogetically agree that it does hurt me enormously to think about anyone being eternally separated from the One who loved us enough to die for us, even while we were the most heinous of sinners. I can't imagine an eternal existence without hope. The without hope is the without God part, more than the fear of the punishment that accompanied dying without Christ. Although this verse also comes to mind as well -- The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 9:10 This is not the type of fear you refer to (although He will judge the world one day, and perhaps soon). The fear spoken of in Proverbs 9:10 is referring to the awe and wonder we should have toward the magnitude of the One Who is the Creator of all things, the One Whose countenance is so bright, man cannot look upon Him and live. I say all of this as one who is still so very far from perfect but recognizes my ultimate dependence on Jesus. Even as a Christian, my good deeds are still as filthy rags in light of God, Who is Holy. But He is the Author and Finisher of my faith, and He Who began a good work in me will not be finished until I am complete, which will not happen this side of eternity. I know you don't hold scripture in high regard, but this is one verse about what we believe about man's condemnation of himself and why we believe it -- For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20 NASB1995 bible.com/bible/100/rom.1.20.NASB1995
@@twingo146 By arguing it is not God who is sending people to hell but people themselves who are doing it, you are conceding the point that if God was doing it, it would be abhorrent, therefore the existence of hell is abhorrent. If God is truly all-powerful and all-benevolent, he would not allow the existence of a place of eternal punishment REGARDLESS of who was responsible for people going there. You can dress it up however you like. You’re either in it for fire insurance, or you’re atrociously evil, and I do not believe you are atrociously evil.
The good news is, the story isn’t over for any of these deconstructed people. They can still call to God at any point, and He will answer them and show them great and unsearchable things they do not know. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
@2shoobs if they were never enlightened it is. There’s millions of people, influential people, walking around calling themselves Christians who have yet to truly understand the gospel and experience regeneration. “Taking the Name in vain”
*_"Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are just a vapor that appears for a little while, and then vanishes away." -James 4:14_*
Yes, DC Talk partnered with Voice of the Martyrs to make the book Jesus Freaks. I read it in my late teens and the stories of these people who lived their lives for God, even to the point of death, have "stuck" with me all of these years later. A great book!
To be fair, I can understand how someone could be deceived into deconstruction if they’ve been a part of the average American evangelical church, with the average shallow evangelical theology. People who have deconstructed think they’re asking questions that haven’t been answered a thousand years ago, because American evangelicalism has done a terrible job of discipling people, and on the whole doesn’t seem to care too much about church history or theology, and certainly doesn’t care about apologetics. Just giving a trite, “Well, they weren’t really a Believer.” is a cop out, and a convenient way for evangelicalism to not have to take a look in the mirror and assess if they were BEING THE CHURCH, and not just a weekly Christian concert and pep talk. Some self reflection is necessary here.
Spot on well said, 👏 what is really sad is the fact that many people, especially in music ministry have an extremely shallow understanding of God & His Word! We need word for word expository teaching & preaching.
Even if "they weren't really a believer", that doesn't give the church an out. How have you had this person in your influence for so many years and just let them slip through your fingers?
There was very little that was shallow in the church I grew up in (with the marked exception being the way people would spread gossip via the "we need to pray for so-and-so" method). The church was EXTREMELY judgmental. I watched my pastor and his staff try to force women into staying in abusive relationships. My mother would beat me and go to church and brag about it while lying to those people and telling them that I was using drugs (I never did, and still haven't used any illegal substance). Her friends would applaud her and encourage her to keep it up. I cannot tell you how many times people spread rumors about me and then punished ME for something I had never done or said - people were talking, right? That meant something was up! The church is abusive and needs to change. As for me, I returned to my Jewish roots. I will never return to an evangelical church again.
Amen and Amen! There are two groups of people I blame for this problem! 1. The cowardly Pastors. And 2. THE PARENTS for their failures to raise their children. Hey BOOMERS, I'm talking to you! Hey GenX, y'all need a WAKE UP CALL too!
That's why having an actual relationship with Jesus is very important. I've been through so much and at times have distanced myself from God for a bit(when my mom passed) but i came back and never stopped believing. When you're really born again, you can't go back, you have experienced him, you know for a fact he's real. And its not just blind faith. But i pray for the man and all people that now claim they don't believe anymore, or believe in a different Jesus..
Thank you for this. I'm still a DC talk fan but this made some things with Kevin clear to me after hearing. The journey isn't over and he's in my prayers along with anyone else going down or on that road. Narrow is the road truely.
The Bible speaks about a great falling away, even while many are coming to Christ. The main places we are seeing deconstruction is in the first world, especially America, and the greatest numbers coming to Christ are in places like the Middle East and China.
@@googIesux I would characterize it as a faith that places undue focus on America and feels that America is God's nation. If/when America loses its place on the world stage, God will still be on His throne and will raise up another nation from which to send forth missionaries and to make his name known in the world.
@@melissamoats3926 I still am believing God for a revival in America because so many things people have their faith in are going away. So many things we have taken for granted.
Praise You Heavenly Father and Savior The Lord Jesus Christ for saving a wretch like me, and giving me new life in You by the power of Your Holy Spirit. Draw all souls to You Lord. Praise You forever and ever. Amen
Mr Cooper I’m so happy to be fighting alongside you. I loved listening to you since your early 2000 albums. I hope to meet you, either on this side or the next. Keeping your ministry in prayer. God is so pleased that you are the rare Artist that’s in absolute truth my friend
We should all question the things that we've learned in church. Just because a preacher said it, doesn't mean it is true. It is naive to believe that we haven't inherited some junk in Christianity after 2,000 years. Kevin Max hasn't lost his faith. He's discovering God's faith in him.
I appreciate your perspective and how you respectfully react through a biblical lense. I agree, if we really love Jesus, we need to obey his commands, not manipulate to fit my own lifestyle. The woman at the well was told to stop sinning - Jesus didn't accept her sin, He showed her love and forgiveness. We need to be praying for our churches, our children and our leaders. Keeping you in prayer as well brother!
You nailed this! I have a family member who is walking a similar path. There is a very clear, very obvious element of taking pride and glorying in being edgy and different and challenging/arguing. Seeking after the persona and the image. It's definitely a prayer point: Humility (for her and for me).
I heard a quote one time that stopped me in my tracks, "hate is not the opposite of love-indifference is." He calls us to follow his commands because sin hurts us and he loves us too much to leave us where we are. If he were not loving he would be all condoning and accepting even when our actions causes us incredible harm. His commands are loving boundaries not prison cells.
Exactly! My argument with my children concerning their discipline is just that. If I did not love them I would not care enough to give them consequences for their wrong actions. And God loves us far more than I even love my children.
Thank you for sharing this, especially the last 10 or 15 minutes...the lost need to understand the peril they face and the amazing grace He provides. I pray for Kevin Max and the many others.
I love DC Talk, but for a while, I noticed Kevin "liking" things I couldn't "like" as a Christian and have wondered about him. I didn't feel led to ask him about it publicly but I did keep watching to try and figure out where he was coming from. Then I also saw the recent "exvangelical" post. I see he will be touring again soon with his DC Talk buddies, and that may be good for him. God isn't mad when we ask Him questions, but when we disagree with God on issues, we are totally ignorant because God is never wrong on any issue.
What I’ve noticed about so many of these “exvangelicals” or “deconstructionists”, is that they were steeped in a church culture. A lot of them were 90’s youth group kids who never missed a Sunday, raised their hands, listened to all the bands, wore the shirts, went to all the youth conferences, went to the church camps, etc.. They grew up, became adults and realized that they had a church story, but not a Jesus story. But that church culture became so ingrained in their identity that just coming out and proclaiming a full blown rejection of Christianity seems to drastic to them. So instead they use the “exvangelical” jargon to ease their own feelings and guilt. I know a lot of people like this. People I grew up with, including my own brother. They may not use the aforementioned terms, but they are functionally “exvangelicals”.
Frankly I have known for a while that he would be coming out in this deconstruction process because even when I watch them as a youth and went to the creation festivals etc., it was known that there were some sin issues at least among the people who were “in” with the bands, but beyond that I think when you have a Jesus story… Which I had to deconstruct personally from my church story into a Jesus story… You can see the lack of love for him and passion for Christ. Spot on and I appreciate it in humble but powerful way you are helping bridge the gap
By the way, I totally wanted to ask in an interview with an air one concert about two or three years ago at some questions but they told me they weren’t appropriate for the general crowd… One of the things I wanted to ask was about how you stay so grounded when you’ve toured with so much of the world and worldly bands. I find myself hearing a lot from the church crowd about skillets music and how it drags Jesus name through the mud etc. blah blah blah and I don’t defend that type of mindset anymore simply because it is a mindset, but at the same time, I’ve seen your interviews year after year and how you continue to speak of Jesus and could tell the story went beyond the “churchianity” of today
What you bring up really should be a wake up call to how churches do their youth services. Often kid’s services are filled to the brim with entertainment and social activities without a lot of substance.
Some very astute observations, and I agree. I don't know if it has something to do with the trend back then of "marketing" Jesus. Or perhaps it wasn't Jesus they were marketing, but "Christianity". So much fluff was added to ministry that often Biblical truth wasn't taught, but instead popular "Christian" books were read as if they were Biblical. Case in point, "I Kissed Dating Good-bye" by Josh Harris, uncoincidentally (or it seems uncoincidentally) another "exvangelical." So many people studied that book and applied it to their lives, eventually becoming disillusioned, not with the book, but with God, because the promises in that book didn't come to pass, even though I don't recall much Scripture being used in that book at all.
Thank you John! From my own experience 15 years ago, I had deep doubts. For years I sought answers and the doubt only grew. And recognizing that if I couldn’t fix this with my intellect, maybe my method is wrong. And I heard something that helped reorient me. “The hearts capacity to doubt itself is infinite”. And I knew that to be true. No matter the truth I took in, if I wanted to look for doubt, I could find it. So instead of continuing to deconstruct I considered the story of Charles templeton. How a man who walked arm in arm with Billy Graham could leave the faith. And I saw how diving inwardly into our doubts resulted in a shipwrecked life. The Lord grabbed me back in I Peter 1:8. Though having not seen Him, you love Him. I knew this pursuit was the reality of God, calling me to Himself. So you’re right; continued deconstruction will shipwreck the seeker because the answers are not found in our own hearts, but in Christ the King.
John I don't know if you'll see this but you are such a blessing and an inspiration to me. I'm so proud of what you're doing. Keep fighting the fight. Proud to call you my brother in Christ.
“How can we stop this from happening in the future…”. Well, for one, you won’t, and why should you care. Kevin Max is free to explore his spirituality and what it means to relate to God and this world and its people. Stop espousing your own theology onto others as if you’re ‘in’, and others like Kevin are ‘out’.
He is not "outing" the guy. but the bible is clear that salvation through Christ Jesus and the repentance of sin is the only way. its not to be watered down with acceptance and even promotion of living for the worlds acceptance of anything goes. yes we all have a choice and I don't judge but I do stand firm.
This is sad indeed. I love DC Talk, love Toby Mac, and Michael Tait. We really appreciate all you do John! Can’t wait to see you come close to north Louisiana so I can see y’all again.
Man I hear you, bro! I needed that sobering preaching. Keep seeking, keep knocking, keep repenting, keep striving, keep bringing it to the throne of grace! Lord bless you, brother!
I read Kevin’s book like 20 years ago as a teenager and huge fan of dctalk. I remember telling my friend how sad I was that Kevin drank alcohol and smoked cigars. So many looked up to him.
A few years ago, I looked up what Kevin and Michael was doing (since I was still following Toby). Even then, I could tell something was off with Kevin. Looking back now, it was an early sign that leads up to where we are now.
Actually Kevin still says he is a Jesus freak. I think that since John has only had casual conversations with Kevin, that he should reach out to him before making videos like this. It’s no different than gossip at this point because of the assumptions
Yes John. God has been working through Skillet for a long time. But it is SOOOOOOO awesome to see him work through just solely John. Seeing my favorite artists and entertainers for lack of other words, fall, it is so refreshing to see you keep speaking truth. Please don’t ever stop and I know you won’t.
@@jodiplocher860 I remember the second one mainly cause they had stories of those who suffer persecution yet did not die (including the founder of VFTM)
i just wanna say, thank you. i appreciate your courage to confront the ways of men, compare them to the ways of God and let us draw our own conclusions as to the foolishness of their nature.
I'd heard it back to Jesus Freak. Admittedly, I knew some connections in radio that I might've heard more than the usual. When he said that he was already there, it's true.
Amen, my brother. This was absolutely your best podcast yet. It's amazing how, just as I believe it says in James, truth really does cut to the heart (whether it be for us to grow closer to Christ Jesus or allows our hearts to harden). Praying for all those lost souls out there who continually reject Jesus. Time is short. Also, looking forward to another epic Skillet show this July!
It seems to me that the key phrase is, "I loved Jesus more than..." It is not a competition. Love does not compare itself to others. "Love does not envy. Love does not boast." What it should like is, "I love Jesus. Because I love Jesus, I love myself and other people, warts and all."
Back in the day when MySpace was a thing (long before I even agreed with the Doctrines of Grace), I directly confronted him on some of his derpy comments and he only doubled down on his position. It's sad to hear his confession, but it's not surprising. He pretty obviously wasn't in the faith then, it was only a matter of time before it became public knowledge. All that being said, until the Lord has determined for Kevin Max to leave this earth, He can still regenerate his heart in a real way.
Mathew 13: 1-9. I personally have been asking the question of how someone who starts out strong, but finds themselves sitting in the thorns and looking on the good soil can ever get back to the good soil. For the past 17 years I have been in the thorns and wondered if I can ever break out and find my way back into the good soil again. God forgives, God judges, man judges and man rarely forgives, but even Jesus will judge and spew out a lukewarm Christian Rev. 3-16. Thank you for giving me something to further pray for and Mr. Max needs our prayers and sometimes it takes a separation to bring back the hunger.
As a very good friend of Kevin Max, I'm appalled with this blatant attack on his faith, which I can assure you is real. Kevin loves Jesus. I see this as an obscene attempt at promoting your book. You say you've had conversations with Kevin- he tells me that that is untrue. Well, before attacking him or anyone else online (so Christ-like), why not invite him for coffee and conversation?
Did you even listen to this podcast Phil? He does engage in what Kevin has said publicly. Kevin is also a public figure, so he is open to this type of analysis. Also, we show our faith by what we say and do, not by someone else's assurance.
@@TotallySharkyComplete Of course I did. I speak with Kevin often. He’s an iconoclast to be sure, but he hasn’t denied Christ or Christianity. He has wisely distanced himself from Qanons like Cooper and the Evangelical movement which has been subjugated by the spirit of nationalism. Orthodoxy isn’t limited to evangelicalism, and what he has deconstructed is evangelicalism, which has seemingly lost its way. Can you blame him? Thanks for asking, and keep your heart open to Jesus.
I didn't take any of it that way either. 🤷🏻♀️ Also, blaming the American church has become the new cool thing and it's foolish. My personal relationship with God is not based on who my pastor is, etc. I already made most of my points in the comment above though...
Phil, Cooper goes into specifics about why he thought Max was outside the faith. I do agree, this is not a good place to be, questioning someone else's faith. But Cooper was trying to be fair and said that this was as much an example and springboard to define things. But what the heck, saying Cooper is a Qanon supporter? That is just not accurate. It looks like you are more guilty than Cooper, of false accusations.
A good discussion. Repentance was the one concept that was lacking in my Christian upbringing. I am not surprised that there are many still proclaiming the name of Jesus who haven't repented themselves. It was quite a journey God took me on to get me to the point of repentance. It is a rare experience.
Like Lacrea, they are making money off of the one true God that they don’t acknowledge as completely true. So wrong. This guy is pro everything God is clearly against. Carnal. Thank you you John for being bold in speaking the truth. May God continue to bless you and keep you true and faithful.
I gotta know, what is it that Kevin is for that G-d is "clearly against"? All this garbage making fun of people who disagree with you is distinctly against Jesus' own teachings. All I see here is a bunch of bitter people getting angry that someone they once supported won't go with the flow anymore.
@@melthefretmaster wow your comments are untruthful but that’s ok, I honestly don’t care if anyone disagrees with me when it comes to my faith. When someone doesn’t agree with the Bible they are actually disagreeing with God, not me. And I’m certainly not gonna spend time explaining what God is clearly against. If you don’t know this already then you don’t know God. I will always choose God’s truth over man’s worldly opinions.✌🏼
@@JesusisLord1g FFS, your faith. YOUR faith! I'm not talking about your faith, I'm talking about your behavior, those are two different things. Everyone else here is 100% judging Kevin's faith, and Jesus very clearly spoke against that sort of thing. He wasn't nice about it, either.
Which would explain why he didn't add "pro" LIFE to his list. Because he cares more about scoring points with the world than he does about standing up for what he truly believes is right.
@ Tristian Murphy, while I acknowledge that American Christians do have their flaws (myself included), I would implore you to look at what the Bible says period, including the scriptures which may offend your sensibilities. Don't look to Kevin for how to act, or even church goers, look to Jesus Himself and Him alone.
If all the major corporations, Hollywood, celebrities, universities, legacy media, and tons of politicians espouse your ideology, YOU’RE NOT THE REBELLION.
If the church refuses to leave its echo chamber, leaving absolutely is an act of rebellion. I'm proud of Kevin for doing what's unpopular with the church.
@@melthefretmaster not going to argue. but it is NOT about "the church." it is matters of the heart. you either accept Christs salvation and repent or you don't.
What I see on Max’s posts is that he is not walking away from Jesus. But he is walking away from evangelicalism. I can’t speak for his reasons, but I can say that many people still believe in God and in love but do not subscribe to fundamentalism. That does not disqualify their connection to divinity any more or less however.
I felt the same way about KMax. He's been going down this road for a long time...I mean he was making statements like this since Supernatural maybe earlier.
Dude...y'all don't know the half of it. I know things I will never repeat because it is not my place, but there are secrets about Xtian celebrities that would make you never want to step foot in a bible bookstore again.
Totally agree Cooper. Petra changed the Christian Music Industry in the 70s and 80's...and the early 90's. DC Talk changed Christian music in mid to late 90's. I always hold firm to Petra's song, "Don't wanna be a man pleaser, I wanna be a God pleaser."
John, I'm hearing you sing "I don't need your woke, woke cookies" to the tune of "Wild Honey " from your old school stuff. Love your heart and passion. Keep bringing it! GODspeed!
Yes! Amen! I think it's important to also mention that there is a difference between making a judgement call and passing judgement. We make judgement calls all of the time from what we wear to what we will listen to and why. Passing judgment is judging or guessing the motives of someone else's heart, which is not for us to decide. That is for God only. John, I think you hit the nail on the head with your explanation of how when people deconstruct being because they were never truly followers. You based it off of things they have said and their actions instead of just guessing. Now, we just need to start writing songs about the coming tribulation 😉. Anyway, God bless you and your family!
Very well said! I’ve noticed comments of others attacking John, like he’s judging, but you’re right spot on, and just as the Word says, we will know them by their fruits. These discussions must be had to help others and help steer us all in right paths. 🙏🏼
That’s because they don’t know how Jesus describe judging he said Judge not lest ye be judged him but his judging was this you cannot judge people into hell you have no right to do that God does you can make a judgment call and say this is not right that is not right that’s not kosher that’s not scriptural but you can’t judge people in the hell
Man your knowledge on things culture art and how it can or can’t be related to the Bible is really impressive. I have been encouraged to dig deeper in my quiet times and really hide/keep it in my heart.
I’ve always enjoyed Kevin’s vocals and music. I could always tell he felt outside. In 2020 he released his album Radio Tecknika where it was made blatantly clear what some of his thoughts are on these topics. Very talented man. Praying for him. John, it may have already been a book recommended, but wanted to suggest Voddie Baucham’s “Fault lines” book. Thanks for exhortation.
He could have remained successful in CCM. His quick experience with Audio Adrenaline was evidence of that. In my observation, he wanted to stay independent ( or that misfit outsider). Love his voice. Stereotype B and Imposter r fav albums.
Thank you John, for this message. I'm always grateful when believers talk about God's grace and Justice. Jesus desires to save mankind, not be it's buddy
It's amazing because John the Baptist's entire message to prepare for Jesus Christ was "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" and somehow... we think that Jesus's message was different. No, the whole Gospel is that we are sinners guilty before the holy judge and creator of the universe and otherwise without hope. But God, sent his son Jesus Christ to take our penalty and through his obedience he also overcame death, rose again, and has given us hope for eternal life. But to accept that, you have to realize who you are and your need for Christ. Then you have to repent (turn from sin and to Christ). That is the gospel.
Everyone is a slave to something; you're either a slave to sin or a slave to Jesus. You don't get to be both and you cannot escape being one or the other.
Hey cooper, how about sitting with Kmax over coffee or adult beverage and get his thoughts one on one to try and understand him? A lot of misunderstanding over deconstruction.
Could be a good idea, except there is no misunderstanding over deconstruction. By calling himself an exvangelical he is actually saying that he no longer believes in evangelism, AKA salvation through Christ alone.
no misunderstanding the deconstruction = destruction of your faith. More important - Kevin Max needs to understand who Jesus REALLY is. ( As we all do as well ) Truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth. " Jesus IS the Truth "
I understand the idea of trying to talk one on one first....however there is no misunderstanding because Kevin Max explains what he believes (and those of us who have followed him on social media for years are not surprised because he has been saying such things for yeaaaarrrsss). Kevin Max is politically far left and not a fan of traditional Christianity or everything in the Bible. Heck even just listening to his solo music you would see it
My question is John (and others)...have you actually sat down and had an honest conversation with anyone that has deconstructed? And not just one, our stories are different. The majority of the people I know that have left the institutional church or that are in a questioning phase are reconstructing and still hold onto their faith in Jesus and a Father that loves them. It's amazing the transformation and how people have a desire to love and follow God through it all and not man. The God that they have come to know during this journey just does not add up to how "Christians" they grew up with are treating those around them and living legalistically. I would be careful not to lump everyone into one pile of poo....I am excited to see many religious ideals being crumbled in order to see the real Jesus. And most that I talk to have not been following a certain fad...God had been speaking to them way before they knew about others deconstructing and He has been helping them remove the masks.
I think that's an interesting comment, James. We're all on a journey and we have to make our own way, at least to some extent. While I do agree that there is (and should be room) for disagreement within the Christian faith, there is also a bridge too far, so to speak. The 'woke' church that Kevin seems to be a part of is probably that for me. But I would like to see an honest conversation between more traditional Christians and some on the more deconstructionist side.
God does not lead people to reject the Word of God, so I think that the types of people deconstructing that Cooper has been speaking of don't really fall into the pool of people that are just honestly trying to follow God. The people that he responds to haven't just come to a better understanding of God, they've rejected who God actually is. I have listened to a lot of interviews with those who deconstructed/deconverted because I was going through a faith crisis too, and I think Cooper is handling this stuff well, and representing them well
Thank you for your wisdom and uplifting words. It's refreshing to see that you do believe what you sing about. I was a fan of Jennifer Knapp and I was truly saddened to see her about-face in 2008. I was also discouraged to hear about Ray Boltz as well. I looked up to MxPx too until they started using explicit language in their music. I saw the Newsboys in concert back in 1994 with John James and I was saddened and then relieved to hear his testimony about coming back to his faith. We are all only human though... even my "heroes." I know everyone stumbles and falls but I get really hurt when they turn their back on it all. In the end though I know it's my faith and my standing that are the only things that truly matter to myself. I can't allow myself to be distracted or disheartened by other people regardless of their achievements or fame. Keep rocking John and Korey!
Super disappointed in John Cooper and his assumptions about another person that is just gossip, creating rumors, and slandering another person. Kevin has not renounced Christ nor abandoned the Trinity. He specifically says he is still a Jesus Freak. Furthermore, John goes so far as to insinuate that Kevin Max has never been a Christ-follower. Pure slander. The bible speakings harshly about those who gossip and slander. Cooper has the biblical and ethical responsibly to publically apologize and repent for his own role in these false accusations.
I heard what you heard Katrina. Thank you for saying it and defending Kevin. I agree with you and I pray we all look at our own selves and focus on our own sanctification not judging and gossiping about others.
PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE!!! Keep speaking the TRUTH John!! May you be strengthened in your inner man to stay the course set before you. God bless you & keep you!
Yes, that was DC Talk’s book. I worked Christian retailing then; it sold well. Thanks for covering this! And truthfully, after working Christian retailing for 12 years, nothing surprises me!!! Sad, really, but honest!
“I want God, not my idea of God.” -CS Lewis.
💯🔥
🙏🏼🏹
Thanks Cooper. My heart is broken for Kmax. I've been saved since 95 and grew up with DCTalk and Skillet.
The western church is failing because it doesn't require repentance of anyone.
40,000 denominations so there is a luke warm flavor for everyone. God's law is to love HIM with all your heart soul and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
I was chewed out by my pastor and deacons for asking why we are participating in Halloween, Easter, and Christmas but don't observe any of God's commanded Feasts and Festivals.
I asked the question, "Does God appreciate the sacrifice of our time and resources for Trunk or Treat while we ignore Sukkot?"
Whether I'm right or wrong to be against Trunk or Treat, the church is failing if it's afraid to seek the Truth in God's word to answer that question.
Note to self: raise volume AFTER the Cooper Stuff intro.
IKR?? Lol 😂
Yeah... Every. Dang. Time! 🙉
Yes! Hurt me bad!
For real
IKR the audio was kind of weird on this one. Good info though.
I have to admit, John Cooper, has fast become of of my favorite people. Being outspoken is risky, and for that, much respect. I've got a lot of these to catch up on. . .
Same here.
The more I love Jesus, the more I realize how much I'm not like Him,,,,, WOW,,,, that one got me between the eyes,,,,
@Joshua Baker I just love JLCs perspective and honesty.
We will never be like Jesus on this side of eternity! Comparing yourself to perfection invites failure. We are conforming to His image over time, but Jesus is much more than His image.
@@marahnathagilbert4139 hmm,, I may be wrong, but I feel like maybe you missed what he is saying. The more he loves Jesus, the more he wants to be like him. Which is something all of us as christians should be doing anyway ( the word literally means follower of Christ .) He was making the analogy that, the closer he draws to Christ, the more we will come to realize the truth of how truly far away we are from Him. The closer we are to His righteousness, the more we come to realize how truly UN- righteous we are without Him.
Again,, forgive me if I misunderstood what you were saying ❤️
I can relate. The more I learn about Jesus and the more I live Him, the less I understand why and how He could love someone like me.
@@mackfarlainethebarenakedau5113 Amen!!! Like, it's easy to see why we would love him!! Not so easy to see why he loves us,,,, but He does!!❤️
I was a 90’s kid and loved dc Talk. I’m not surprised at all about K-max, obvious that he’s been “deconstructed” for many many years now, even back to the end of the dc Talk era. It’s like he’s the living embodiment of their song “My Friend (so long)”.
It's a great music video to show your druggy friends. Freaks 'em out enough to give you their attention.
Now I wonder if Toby and Michael wrote those lyrics with Kevin in mind. And that would explain why Supernatural which that song was on, was the last album DC Talk made.
It is incredibly encouraging to hear so much biblical language, love for Christ and conviction coming from John! Thank you, brother, for your clarity and conviction. You must be a part of a great church!
Agreed! 💯💯💯💯
The closer we get to God the more aware we are of our sin. Thank you Jesus for Saving me! ✝️
@Erich Thomas Amen, John gets, and says some things SO clearly!! He’s absolutely right that the closer we get to Jesus -the Jesus of the Bible- the more we understand and FEEL aware of our sin. “ if we love Jesus KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS!!”❤️
Bottom line. Just because someone is in the Christian music industry or has a Christian ministry means nothing. We dont know anyones personal relationship with God just because they are in the spotlight
Just another note, the song “Jesus Freak” was written by Toby Mac.
I’m also not surprised by Kevin’s “deconstruction”. When DC Talk broke up he wrote a book of poetry, it was filled with a more universalist and new age message. His solo album also was a wishy, washy album.
We need less topical preaching and more expository preaching. The younger generations, and far too many of us who are older, are biblically illiterate. We need verse by verse study of the entire Bible, so that God's Word is written on our hearts. I believe that would help people connect the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus of the New and help us understand that they are one and the same.
I read the Bible cover to cover multiple times and it was one of the biggest contributors to me becoming an atheist. Might wanna put that on your heart.
My comment was really for those who are already in the church who are drifting away or who are seeing their children do so. I want you to know that you are loved by those you know who are true Believers, whether you are a Believer now or not. People who really love, serve, and believe in Jesus as the one way to a relationship with God pray daily for people we know who don't believe.
If reading the Bible drove you to atheism, I will pray that doesn't last. One thing I think helps many is to read some books that help explain the literal fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies about the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. If you can see that those things were literally predicted hundreds or thousands of years before the birth of Christ and were literally fulfilled, maybe you will consider that the rest of the Bible could be true as well.
I pray you consider your eternity important enough to study and make sure you want to choose atheism. I hope my response to you comes across as humility and respect for whatever your choice may be. Ultimately we all have to make a decision about where we fall in this. God loves us, and therefore gives us free will.
@@twingo146 If you believe God will condemn me to eternal torture if I’m unconvinced of his existence, I do not believe your motivation is one of love, but of deep fear. No loving god would torture people for eternity. Your compulsion to evangelize stems from a fear of hell first and foremost, and it is why evangelical Christianity is so insidious and all-encompassing. You’re so terrified of burning for eternity that you can’t risk questioning any of the morally abhorrent commandments of YHWH.
No loving God would condemn someone to an infinity of torment just because they weren’t convinced in their blip of a life on Earth. There is no justice in that kind of disproportionate punishment.
I'm sorry that's what you believe. Many unbelievers believe the same -- that it's impossible for Believers to truly love God, that our salvation is only "fire insurance." They could not be more wrong, though. Other than His love for us, our love for Him is the purest love anyone could ever know.
I think the world hates the exclusivity of salvation, but salvation is only excludes those who are determined to love the world more than they love God. Jesus asks all to come and to take up their cross and follow Him.
Believe me, we all had and have sin that we did not / do not want to lay down. Those things are the desires of the flesh. God does not condemn man. Man condemns himself, because He loves himself and his own sin more than anything else. Sadly, there is no one in hell who didn't choose to be there.
And I unapogetically agree that it does hurt me enormously to think about anyone being eternally separated from the One who loved us enough to die for us, even while we were the most heinous of sinners. I can't imagine an eternal existence without hope. The without hope is the without God part, more than the fear of the punishment that accompanied dying without Christ. Although this verse also comes to mind as well --
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 9:10
This is not the type of fear you refer to (although He will judge the world one day, and perhaps soon). The fear spoken of in Proverbs 9:10 is referring to the awe and wonder we should have toward the magnitude of the One Who is the Creator of all things, the One Whose countenance is so bright, man cannot look upon Him and live.
I say all of this as one who is still so very far from perfect but recognizes my ultimate dependence on Jesus. Even as a Christian, my good deeds are still as filthy rags in light of God, Who is Holy. But He is the Author and Finisher of my faith, and He Who began a good work in me will not be finished until I am complete, which will not happen this side of eternity.
I know you don't hold scripture in high regard, but this is one verse about what we believe about man's condemnation of himself and why we believe it --
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20 NASB1995
bible.com/bible/100/rom.1.20.NASB1995
@@twingo146 By arguing it is not God who is sending people to hell but people themselves who are doing it, you are conceding the point that if God was doing it, it would be abhorrent, therefore the existence of hell is abhorrent. If God is truly all-powerful and all-benevolent, he would not allow the existence of a place of eternal punishment REGARDLESS of who was responsible for people going there.
You can dress it up however you like. You’re either in it for fire insurance, or you’re atrociously evil, and I do not believe you are atrociously evil.
I have so much appreciation for this podcast and its straightforward encouragement to keep chasing the truth of the bible.
The good news is, the story isn’t over for any of these deconstructed people. They can still call to God at any point, and He will answer them and show them great and unsearchable things they do not know.
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
Amen!
Hebrews 6 disagrees
@2shoobs if they were never enlightened it is. There’s millions of people, influential people, walking around calling themselves Christians who have yet to truly understand the gospel and experience regeneration. “Taking the Name in vain”
*_"Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are just a vapor that appears for a little while, and then vanishes away." -James 4:14_*
So-o-o-o-o true. He'll never give up on these people...or any of us
I feel like John is much smarter than he gives himself credit for and he dumbs it down for a wider/younger audience.
Yes, DC Talk partnered with Voice of the Martyrs to make the book Jesus Freaks. I read it in my late teens and the stories of these people who lived their lives for God, even to the point of death, have "stuck" with me all of these years later. A great book!
To be fair, I can understand how someone could be deceived into deconstruction if they’ve been a part of the average American evangelical church, with the average shallow evangelical theology. People who have deconstructed think they’re asking questions that haven’t been answered a thousand years ago, because American evangelicalism has done a terrible job of discipling people, and on the whole doesn’t seem to care too much about church history or theology, and certainly doesn’t care about apologetics.
Just giving a trite, “Well, they weren’t really a Believer.” is a cop out, and a convenient way for evangelicalism to not have to take a look in the mirror and assess if they were BEING THE CHURCH, and not just a weekly Christian concert and pep talk. Some self reflection is necessary here.
Spot on well said, 👏 what is really sad is the fact that many people, especially in music ministry have an extremely shallow understanding of God & His Word! We need word for word expository teaching & preaching.
Even if "they weren't really a believer", that doesn't give the church an out. How have you had this person in your influence for so many years and just let them slip through your fingers?
There was very little that was shallow in the church I grew up in (with the marked exception being the way people would spread gossip via the "we need to pray for so-and-so" method). The church was EXTREMELY judgmental. I watched my pastor and his staff try to force women into staying in abusive relationships. My mother would beat me and go to church and brag about it while lying to those people and telling them that I was using drugs (I never did, and still haven't used any illegal substance). Her friends would applaud her and encourage her to keep it up. I cannot tell you how many times people spread rumors about me and then punished ME for something I had never done or said - people were talking, right? That meant something was up! The church is abusive and needs to change. As for me, I returned to my Jewish roots. I will never return to an evangelical church again.
Amen and Amen!
There are two groups of people I blame for this problem!
1. The cowardly Pastors.
And 2. THE PARENTS for their failures to raise their children.
Hey BOOMERS, I'm talking to you! Hey GenX, y'all need a WAKE UP CALL too!
That's why having an actual relationship with Jesus is very important. I've been through so much and at times have distanced myself from God for a bit(when my mom passed) but i came back and never stopped believing. When you're really born again, you can't go back, you have experienced him, you know for a fact he's real. And its not just blind faith. But i pray for the man and all people that now claim they don't believe anymore, or believe in a different Jesus..
Thank you for this. I'm still a DC talk fan but this made some things with Kevin clear to me after hearing. The journey isn't over and he's in my prayers along with anyone else going down or on that road. Narrow is the road truely.
And this dear sir is why the more I listen to you the more I listen to everything of yours I can gather. Preach 🙌🏼
The Bible speaks about a great falling away, even while many are coming to Christ. The main places we are seeing deconstruction is in the first world, especially America, and the greatest numbers coming to Christ are in places like the Middle East and China.
That's the difficulty of having an America-centric faith. God is global and He will raise up His people from every tribe tongue and nation
@@melissamoats3926 what's america-centric faith? i don't think i've ever heard of that before
@@googIesux I would characterize it as a faith that places undue focus on America and feels that America is God's nation. If/when America loses its place on the world stage, God will still be on His throne and will raise up another nation from which to send forth missionaries and to make his name known in the world.
@@melissamoats3926 I still am believing God for a revival in America because so many things people have their faith in are going away. So many things we have taken for granted.
Chi Anne MCClain and Justin Bieber are recommit themselves
Praise You Heavenly Father and Savior The Lord Jesus Christ for saving a wretch like me, and giving me new life in You by the power of Your Holy Spirit. Draw all souls to You Lord. Praise You forever and ever. Amen
Amen. Praise His Holy Name. Jesus is Lord of all.
Thank you for speaking out John !!!. thank you for using the authority that Jesus gave you !!
Read the Bible! That's the foundation of truth. That'll keep you strong and close to God, who will be your anchor.
How did that go for Ravi? 🤔
@@matasaina2011 What do you mean?
Mr Cooper I’m so happy to be fighting alongside you. I loved listening to you since your early 2000 albums. I hope to meet you, either on this side or the next. Keeping your ministry in prayer. God is so pleased that you are the rare Artist that’s in absolute truth my friend
We should all question the things that we've learned in church. Just because a preacher said it, doesn't mean it is true. It is naive to believe that we haven't inherited some junk in Christianity after 2,000 years. Kevin Max hasn't lost his faith. He's discovering God's faith in him.
Thank you for saying this Sarah. God bless you
Bingo! We aren’t judgmental we have discernment and that’s from God! You are spot on John Cooper!
How do you know your discernment is from god?
I appreciate your perspective and how you respectfully react through a biblical lense. I agree, if we really love Jesus, we need to obey his commands, not manipulate to fit my own lifestyle. The woman at the well was told to stop sinning - Jesus didn't accept her sin, He showed her love and forgiveness. We need to be praying for our churches, our children and our leaders. Keeping you in prayer as well brother!
You nailed this! I have a family member who is walking a similar path. There is a very clear, very obvious element of taking pride and glorying in being edgy and different and challenging/arguing. Seeking after the persona and the image. It's definitely a prayer point: Humility (for her and for me).
I heard a quote one time that stopped me in my tracks, "hate is not the opposite of love-indifference is." He calls us to follow his commands because sin hurts us and he loves us too much to leave us where we are. If he were not loving he would be all condoning and accepting even when our actions causes us incredible harm. His commands are loving boundaries not prison cells.
Exactly! My argument with my children concerning their discipline is just that. If I did not love them I would not care enough to give them consequences for their wrong actions. And God loves us far more than I even love my children.
It might give you some perspective to know where that quote came from. It was Elie Wiesel, a survivor of Shoah.
this comment should have gotten way more attention. I get it and agree. great comment.
I really needed to hear this today and every day! Thank you for clarity.
Cooper’s boldness is such an encouragement in faith!
Thank you for sharing this, especially the last 10 or 15 minutes...the lost need to understand the peril they face and the amazing grace He provides. I pray for Kevin Max and the many others.
Step one: Hear the Truth, Step two: Believe the Truth, Step three: Repent (turn), Step four: Surrender.
Practice daily
Appreciate the realness and honesty. And you’re right-the part that’s been missing is the serious reality of sin.
Any chance of Skillet releasing a cover of To Hell with the devil? That would be epic, I grew up listening to Stryper, Petra, Larry Norman.
Dude!!! That'd be totally amazing 😲
We need to start a petition for this!
DO IT!
That would be LIT.
Great idea!! Plus a bunch of other old school Christian songs! Please make a whole record of this John!
I love DC Talk, but for a while, I noticed Kevin "liking" things I couldn't "like" as a Christian and have wondered about him. I didn't feel led to ask him about it publicly but I did keep watching to try and figure out where he was coming from. Then I also saw the recent "exvangelical" post. I see he will be touring again soon with his DC Talk buddies, and that may be good for him. God isn't mad when we ask Him questions, but when we disagree with God on issues, we are totally ignorant because God is never wrong on any issue.
Hi :) I am a fellow DC Talk fan. Can you please share more information you say DC Talk touring again soon?
What I’ve noticed about so many of these “exvangelicals” or “deconstructionists”, is that they were steeped in a church culture. A lot of them were 90’s youth group kids who never missed a Sunday, raised their hands, listened to all the bands, wore the shirts, went to all the youth conferences, went to the church camps, etc.. They grew up, became adults and realized that they had a church story, but not a Jesus story. But that church culture became so ingrained in their identity that just coming out and proclaiming a full blown rejection of Christianity seems to drastic to them. So instead they use the “exvangelical” jargon to ease their own feelings and guilt. I know a lot of people like this. People I grew up with, including my own brother. They may not use the aforementioned terms, but they are functionally “exvangelicals”.
Isn’t it interesting that they want to hang on to the church- it’s like their lifeline. Heartbreaking that they don’t have a relationship with Jesus.
Frankly I have known for a while that he would be coming out in this deconstruction process because even when I watch them as a youth and went to the creation festivals etc., it was known that there were some sin issues at least among the people who were “in” with the bands, but beyond that I think when you have a Jesus story… Which I had to deconstruct personally from my church story into a Jesus story… You can see the lack of love for him and passion for Christ. Spot on and I appreciate it in humble but powerful way you are helping bridge the gap
By the way, I totally wanted to ask in an interview with an air one concert about two or three years ago at some questions but they told me they weren’t appropriate for the general crowd… One of the things I wanted to ask was about how you stay so grounded when you’ve toured with so much of the world and worldly bands. I find myself hearing a lot from the church crowd about skillets music and how it drags Jesus name through the mud etc. blah blah blah and I don’t defend that type of mindset anymore simply because it is a mindset, but at the same time, I’ve seen your interviews year after year and how you continue to speak of Jesus and could tell the story went beyond the “churchianity” of today
What you bring up really should be a wake up call to how churches do their youth services. Often kid’s services are filled to the brim with entertainment and social activities without a lot of substance.
Some very astute observations, and I agree. I don't know if it has something to do with the trend back then of "marketing" Jesus. Or perhaps it wasn't Jesus they were marketing, but "Christianity". So much fluff was added to ministry that often Biblical truth wasn't taught, but instead popular "Christian" books were read as if they were Biblical. Case in point, "I Kissed Dating Good-bye" by Josh Harris, uncoincidentally (or it seems uncoincidentally) another "exvangelical." So many people studied that book and applied it to their lives, eventually becoming disillusioned, not with the book, but with God, because the promises in that book didn't come to pass, even though I don't recall much Scripture being used in that book at all.
Comatose is one of the greatest Christian albums of all time ! 🔥💪🏼
Christian?
Amen brother! That album wasy jam!
@@ZeeroDubs Not only album,song too.That's the best Skillet song
I pray he comes back to God but I'm not surprised or shocked. God Bless you John 🕊️❤️
Thank you John! From my own experience 15 years ago, I had deep doubts. For years I sought answers and the doubt only grew. And recognizing that if I couldn’t fix this with my intellect, maybe my method is wrong. And I heard something that helped reorient me. “The hearts capacity to doubt itself is infinite”. And I knew that to be true. No matter the truth I took in, if I wanted to look for doubt, I could find it. So instead of continuing to deconstruct I considered the story of Charles templeton. How a man who walked arm in arm with Billy Graham could leave the faith. And I saw how diving inwardly into our doubts resulted in a shipwrecked life. The Lord grabbed me back in I Peter 1:8. Though having not seen Him, you love Him. I knew this pursuit was the reality of God, calling me to Himself. So you’re right; continued deconstruction will shipwreck the seeker because the answers are not found in our own hearts, but in Christ the King.
Thank you for sharing your testimony! It is all because of God!
Amen, brother! Thank you for the reminder that the more I love Jesus, the more I'll realize how much like Him I am NOT, and how much more I need Him.
Yes!! New Cooper Stuff Podcast!! 🔥❤️ I really like watching these Podcasts. ❤️
John I don't know if you'll see this but you are such a blessing and an inspiration to me. I'm so proud of what you're doing. Keep fighting the fight. Proud to call you my brother in Christ.
“How can we stop this from happening in the future…”. Well, for one, you won’t, and why should you care. Kevin Max is free to explore his spirituality and what it means to relate to God and this world and its people. Stop espousing your own theology onto others as if you’re ‘in’, and others like Kevin are ‘out’.
Well said.
He is not "outing" the guy. but the bible is clear that salvation through Christ Jesus and the repentance of sin is the only way. its not to be watered down with acceptance and even promotion of living for the worlds acceptance of anything goes. yes we all have a choice and I don't judge but I do stand firm.
@@before120 yes, you do judge, just like most Christians. Don't fool yourself into thinking you don't.
This is sad indeed. I love DC Talk, love Toby Mac, and Michael Tait. We really appreciate all you do John! Can’t wait to see you come close to north Louisiana so I can see y’all again.
I remember Michael Tait at Fishnet, maybe '86, singing "Jesus Loves Me." Not a dry eye in the house. And then we all took communion.
@@marahnathagilbert4139 beautiful story! Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for speaking out and reminding me to get back to a biblical viewpoint on EVERYTHING.
Man I hear you, bro! I needed that sobering preaching. Keep seeking, keep knocking, keep repenting, keep striving, keep bringing it to the throne of grace! Lord bless you, brother!
The best definition I've ever heard of love, besides Jesus, is self-sacrifice.
I read Kevin’s book like 20 years ago as a teenager and huge fan of dctalk. I remember telling my friend how sad I was that Kevin drank alcohol and smoked cigars. So many looked up to him.
Do you enjoy CS Lewis? He drank smoked and swore. Get off your high horse.
A few years ago, I looked up what Kevin and Michael was doing (since I was still following Toby). Even then, I could tell something was off with Kevin. Looking back now, it was an early sign that leads up to where we are now.
He was the lead singer for Audio Adrenaline for 1 album, since they moved more towards worship stuff I can see now why he didn't want to stick around.
@@GrumpyWolfTech You're thinking Michael Tait, not KMax.
@@snopure No, actually Kevin WAS the lead singer for AA for a very short time. Michael T. is the lead singer now for Newsboys.
Actually Kevin still says he is a Jesus freak. I think that since John has only had casual conversations with Kevin, that he should reach out to him before making videos like this. It’s no different than gossip at this point because of the assumptions
Thankfully Cooper's talk was more about deconstruction than KM's quotes.
Thank you for saying this Joel Goodwin. I agree with you 💯
Yes John. God has been working through Skillet for a long time. But it is SOOOOOOO awesome to see him work through just solely John. Seeing my favorite artists and entertainers for lack of other words, fall, it is so refreshing to see you keep speaking truth. Please don’t ever stop and I know you won’t.
For the Jesus Freaks book, it was labeled under DC Talk. I still remember the book and the unique way it was made.
There were actually 2 and another one was rereleased this winter!
@@jodiplocher860 I remember the second one mainly cause they had stories of those who suffer persecution yet did not die (including the founder of VFTM)
@@kellydarrius yea
i just wanna say, thank you. i appreciate your courage to confront the ways of men, compare them to the ways of God and let us draw our own conclusions as to the foolishness of their nature.
I was not even surprised about his confession. It's so sad, but expected by some of the other stuff he's said over the years
The last few years
I've heard concerning things about lecrae.
I was just going to say the same thing, especially, what he said after his wedding.
I'd heard it back to Jesus Freak. Admittedly, I knew some connections in radio that I might've heard more than the usual. When he said that he was already there, it's true.
@@beverlyhootman5464 He and his wife secretly got married with a spiritual leader officiating before the April ceremony.
It's ok to make observations. We are no one's judge however the word of God has already judged us
Amen, my brother. This was absolutely your best podcast yet. It's amazing how, just as I believe it says in James, truth really does cut to the heart (whether it be for us to grow closer to Christ Jesus or allows our hearts to harden). Praying for all those lost souls out there who continually reject Jesus. Time is short. Also, looking forward to another epic Skillet show this July!
It seems to me that the key phrase is, "I loved Jesus more than..." It is not a competition. Love does not compare itself to others. "Love does not envy. Love does not boast." What it should like is, "I love Jesus. Because I love Jesus, I love myself and other people, warts and all."
Except that's not what any of us have said. Not even close.
Back in the day when MySpace was a thing (long before I even agreed with the Doctrines of Grace), I directly confronted him on some of his derpy comments and he only doubled down on his position. It's sad to hear his confession, but it's not surprising. He pretty obviously wasn't in the faith then, it was only a matter of time before it became public knowledge. All that being said, until the Lord has determined for Kevin Max to leave this earth, He can still regenerate his heart in a real way.
Mathew 13: 1-9. I personally have been asking the question of how someone who starts out strong, but finds themselves sitting in the thorns and looking on the good soil can ever get back to the good soil. For the past 17 years I have been in the thorns and wondered if I can ever break out and find my way back into the good soil again. God forgives, God judges, man judges and man rarely forgives, but even Jesus will judge and spew out a lukewarm Christian Rev. 3-16. Thank you for giving me something to further pray for and Mr. Max needs our prayers and sometimes it takes a separation to bring back the hunger.
Thank you for this.
Comatose,I'll never wake up without a Cooper stuff's Podcast
@@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5 You make the new podcast
I would never live without your podcast
As a very good friend of Kevin Max, I'm appalled with this blatant attack on his faith, which I can assure you is real. Kevin loves Jesus. I see this as an obscene attempt at promoting your book. You say you've had conversations with Kevin- he tells me that that is untrue. Well, before attacking him or anyone else online (so Christ-like), why not invite him for coffee and conversation?
Did you even listen to this podcast Phil? He does engage in what Kevin has said publicly. Kevin is also a public figure, so he is open to this type of analysis. Also, we show our faith by what we say and do, not by someone else's assurance.
I didn't read it that way. But then KMax isn't my friend.
@@TotallySharkyComplete Of course I did. I speak with Kevin often. He’s an iconoclast to be sure, but he hasn’t denied Christ or Christianity. He has wisely distanced himself from Qanons like Cooper and the Evangelical movement which has been subjugated by the spirit of nationalism. Orthodoxy isn’t limited to evangelicalism, and what he has deconstructed is evangelicalism, which has seemingly lost its way. Can you blame him? Thanks for asking, and keep your heart open to Jesus.
I didn't take any of it that way either. 🤷🏻♀️ Also, blaming the American church has become the new cool thing and it's foolish. My personal relationship with God is not based on who my pastor is, etc. I already made most of my points in the comment above though...
Phil, Cooper goes into specifics about why he thought Max was outside the faith. I do agree, this is not a good place to be, questioning someone else's faith. But Cooper was trying to be fair and said that this was as much an example and springboard to define things.
But what the heck, saying Cooper is a Qanon supporter? That is just not accurate. It looks like you are more guilty than Cooper, of false accusations.
Thank you for standing strong in your faith. You have been a great encouragement in your music.
A good discussion. Repentance was the one concept that was lacking in my Christian upbringing. I am not surprised that there are many still proclaiming the name of Jesus who haven't repented themselves. It was quite a journey God took me on to get me to the point of repentance. It is a rare experience.
Like Lacrea, they are making money off of the one true God that they don’t acknowledge as completely true. So wrong. This guy is pro everything God is clearly against. Carnal.
Thank you you John for being bold in speaking the truth. May God continue to bless you and keep you true and faithful.
I gotta know, what is it that Kevin is for that G-d is "clearly against"? All this garbage making fun of people who disagree with you is distinctly against Jesus' own teachings. All I see here is a bunch of bitter people getting angry that someone they once supported won't go with the flow anymore.
@@melthefretmaster wow your comments are untruthful but that’s ok, I honestly don’t care if anyone disagrees with me when it comes to my faith. When someone doesn’t agree with the Bible they are actually disagreeing with God, not me. And I’m certainly not gonna spend time explaining what God is clearly against. If you don’t know this already then you don’t know God. I will always choose God’s truth over man’s worldly opinions.✌🏼
@@JesusisLord1g FFS, your faith. YOUR faith! I'm not talking about your faith, I'm talking about your behavior, those are two different things. Everyone else here is 100% judging Kevin's faith, and Jesus very clearly spoke against that sort of thing. He wasn't nice about it, either.
Which would explain why he didn't add "pro" LIFE to his list. Because he cares more about scoring points with the world than he does about standing up for what he truly believes is right.
@ Tristian Murphy, while I acknowledge that American Christians do have their flaws (myself included), I would implore you to look at what the Bible says period, including the scriptures which may offend your sensibilities.
Don't look to Kevin for how to act, or even church goers, look to Jesus Himself and Him alone.
No you're right mate, it was DcTalk man, i have the book right here - still pulls a tear.
I have it sitting on my shelf also.
Same!
And volume 2!
i lost my copy unfortunately...but i got it when i was like 11-12 n was a very disorganized kid
Fantastic book - My brother-in-law worked on that project (Voice of the Martyrs)
If all the major corporations, Hollywood, celebrities, universities, legacy media, and tons of politicians espouse your ideology, YOU’RE NOT THE REBELLION.
Exactly. 🤦🏻♀️
If the church refuses to leave its echo chamber, leaving absolutely is an act of rebellion. I'm proud of Kevin for doing what's unpopular with the church.
@@melthefretmaster not going to argue. but it is NOT about "the church." it is matters of the heart. you either accept Christs salvation and repent or you don't.
What I see on Max’s posts is that he is not walking away from Jesus. But he is walking away from evangelicalism. I can’t speak for his reasons, but I can say that many people still believe in God and in love but do not subscribe to fundamentalism. That does not disqualify their connection to divinity any more or less however.
I felt the same way about KMax. He's been going down this road for a long time...I mean he was making statements like this since Supernatural maybe earlier.
Never knew, that is too bad. Supernatural is a good album and Kevin made some good music. Obviously talent does nothing to make him right with God.
What kind of statement did he make back then?
Dude...y'all don't know the half of it. I know things I will never repeat because it is not my place, but there are secrets about Xtian celebrities that would make you never want to step foot in a bible bookstore again.
@@melthefretmaster this comment makes no sense
Totally agree Cooper. Petra changed the Christian Music Industry in the 70s and 80's...and the early 90's. DC Talk changed Christian music in mid to late 90's.
I always hold firm to Petra's song, "Don't wanna be a man pleaser, I wanna be a God pleaser."
So good! Keep His commandments. ❤️
what if I stumble, what if I fall, what if I lose myself and I make fools of us all? Will the love continues, will my walk becomes a crawl?
Great analysis between the ever popular "buddy Jesus" and the actual Jesus of the Bible.
John,
I'm hearing you sing "I don't need your woke, woke cookies" to the tune of "Wild Honey " from your old school stuff.
Love your heart and passion. Keep bringing it!
GODspeed!
The one thing this made me say was
I know Toby Mac’s faith is real.
He will never leave him.
Kevin never left Jesus. 🤦🏼♀️
It seems like never had Jesus in his life
Yes! Amen! I think it's important to also mention that there is a difference between making a judgement call and passing judgement. We make judgement calls all of the time from what we wear to what we will listen to and why. Passing judgment is judging or guessing the motives of someone else's heart, which is not for us to decide. That is for God only. John, I think you hit the nail on the head with your explanation of how when people deconstruct being because they were never truly followers. You based it off of things they have said and their actions instead of just guessing.
Now, we just need to start writing songs about the coming tribulation 😉. Anyway, God bless you and your family!
Very well said! I’ve noticed comments of others attacking John, like he’s judging, but you’re right spot on, and just as the Word says, we will know them by their fruits. These discussions must be had to help others and help steer us all in right paths. 🙏🏼
That’s because they don’t know how Jesus describe judging he said Judge not lest ye be judged him but his judging was this you cannot judge people into hell you have no right to do that God does you can make a judgment call and say this is not right that is not right that’s not kosher that’s not scriptural but you can’t judge people in the hell
Man your knowledge on things culture art and how it can or can’t be related to the Bible is really impressive. I have been encouraged to dig deeper in my quiet times and really hide/keep it in my heart.
I’ve always enjoyed Kevin’s vocals and music. I could always tell he felt outside. In 2020 he released his album Radio Tecknika where it was made blatantly clear what some of his thoughts are on these topics. Very talented man. Praying for him. John, it may have already been a book recommended, but wanted to suggest Voddie Baucham’s “Fault lines” book. Thanks for exhortation.
It is sad, he has an absolutly AMAZING singing voice, there aren't many people I can think of that are more blessed than him when it comes to that.
He could have remained successful in CCM. His quick experience with Audio Adrenaline was evidence of that. In my observation, he wanted to stay independent ( or that misfit outsider). Love his voice. Stereotype B and Imposter r fav albums.
Thank you John, for this message. I'm always grateful when believers talk about God's grace and Justice. Jesus desires to save mankind, not be it's buddy
Really well man! Really well put.. Great of you covering these issues. And shining some light on it, and opening up the convo for real
It was DC Talk that came out with the Jesus Freak book of martyrs. I owned a copy years ago.
Why can't you understand HE IS SAVED, not because of his work or his condition but by JESUS' work. Stop mixing kingdom and grace you sound ignirant.
"What if I stumble, what if I fall."
Sadly, he did stumble and fall. Hopefully he gets back up.
If he gets "back up" it'll be by The Grace of God and not of his own efforts and doing. Ephesians 2:8-9.
Even though the prodigal son was in the pig pen, he was still a son.
@@matthayes533 Amen. Praise God for Him being slow to anger and abounding in loving kindness.
Eh, don't worry. Falling away is the best thing that's happened to us heathens.
Cooper, thank you for your honesty. It's seriously the end times right now. Jesus is coming soon!
You're far from being a jerk. You're being real. That is very much appreciated.
Solid. Rocker! for Jesus!
“To show partiality is not good- yet a person will do wrong for a piece of woke cookie.”
Proverbs 28:21 NIV
Man I love listening to you and your realness!! This is super sad because I was a huge Jesus Freak fan!!
It's amazing because John the Baptist's entire message to prepare for Jesus Christ was "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" and somehow... we think that Jesus's message was different. No, the whole Gospel is that we are sinners guilty before the holy judge and creator of the universe and otherwise without hope. But God, sent his son Jesus Christ to take our penalty and through his obedience he also overcame death, rose again, and has given us hope for eternal life. But to accept that, you have to realize who you are and your need for Christ. Then you have to repent (turn from sin and to Christ). That is the gospel.
Everyone is a slave to something; you're either a slave to sin or a slave to Jesus. You don't get to be both and you cannot escape being one or the other.
Hey cooper, how about sitting with Kmax over coffee or adult beverage and get his thoughts one on one to try and understand him? A lot of misunderstanding over deconstruction.
Great idea. But I wonder if Kmax would even...
This is exactly what I was saying.
Could be a good idea, except there is no misunderstanding over deconstruction. By calling himself an exvangelical he is actually saying that he no longer believes in evangelism, AKA salvation through Christ alone.
no misunderstanding
the deconstruction = destruction of your faith.
More important - Kevin Max needs to understand who Jesus REALLY is.
( As we all do as well ) Truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth.
" Jesus IS the Truth "
I understand the idea of trying to talk one on one first....however there is no misunderstanding because Kevin Max explains what he believes (and those of us who have followed him on social media for years are not surprised because he has been saying such things for yeaaaarrrsss). Kevin Max is politically far left and not a fan of traditional Christianity or everything in the Bible. Heck even just listening to his solo music you would see it
My question is John (and others)...have you actually sat down and had an honest conversation with anyone that has deconstructed? And not just one, our stories are different. The majority of the people I know that have left the institutional church or that are in a questioning phase are reconstructing and still hold onto their faith in Jesus and a Father that loves them. It's amazing the transformation and how people have a desire to love and follow God through it all and not man. The God that they have come to know during this journey just does not add up to how "Christians" they grew up with are treating those around them and living legalistically. I would be careful not to lump everyone into one pile of poo....I am excited to see many religious ideals being crumbled in order to see the real Jesus. And most that I talk to have not been following a certain fad...God had been speaking to them way before they knew about others deconstructing and He has been helping them remove the masks.
I think that's an interesting comment, James. We're all on a journey and we have to make our own way, at least to some extent. While I do agree that there is (and should be room) for disagreement within the Christian faith, there is also a bridge too far, so to speak. The 'woke' church that Kevin seems to be a part of is probably that for me.
But I would like to see an honest conversation between more traditional Christians and some on the more deconstructionist side.
God does not lead people to reject the Word of God, so I think that the types of people deconstructing that Cooper has been speaking of don't really fall into the pool of people that are just honestly trying to follow God. The people that he responds to haven't just come to a better understanding of God, they've rejected who God actually is. I have listened to a lot of interviews with those who deconstructed/deconverted because I was going through a faith crisis too, and I think Cooper is handling this stuff well, and representing them well
As a child of the 90’s this really rang true to me on so many levels. Love you, Coop!
Thank you for your wisdom and uplifting words. It's refreshing to see that you do believe what you sing about. I was a fan of Jennifer Knapp and I was truly saddened to see her about-face in 2008. I was also discouraged to hear about Ray Boltz as well. I looked up to MxPx too until they started using explicit language in their music. I saw the Newsboys in concert back in 1994 with John James and I was saddened and then relieved to hear his testimony about coming back to his faith.
We are all only human though... even my "heroes." I know everyone stumbles and falls but I get really hurt when they turn their back on it all.
In the end though I know it's my faith and my standing that are the only things that truly matter to myself. I can't allow myself to be distracted or disheartened by other people regardless of their achievements or fame.
Keep rocking John and Korey!
Super disappointed in John Cooper and his assumptions about another person that is just gossip, creating rumors, and slandering another person. Kevin has not renounced Christ nor abandoned the Trinity. He specifically says he is still a Jesus Freak. Furthermore, John goes so far as to insinuate that Kevin Max has never been a Christ-follower. Pure slander. The bible speakings harshly about those who gossip and slander. Cooper has the biblical and ethical responsibly to publically apologize and repent for his own role in these false accusations.
This was not in the least slanderous. It was just truth.
John Cooper doesn't understand his own relativism 😂
We heard 2 different talks from Cooper 🤷♀️
I heard what you heard Katrina. Thank you for saying it and defending Kevin. I agree with you and I pray we all look at our own selves and focus on our own sanctification not judging and gossiping about others.
PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE!!! Keep speaking the TRUTH John!! May you be strengthened in your inner man to stay the course set before you. God bless you & keep you!
Hey cooper
Hi Jen 😊
Hey Jen - Thank you for giving my grand-daughter a set of drumsticks Saturday at the show. She loves them.
Jen I would love too meet u 😄😄😄
Yes, that was DC Talk’s book. I worked Christian retailing then; it sold well. Thanks for covering this!
And truthfully, after working Christian retailing for 12 years, nothing surprises me!!! Sad, really, but honest!
Yes!! Stryper!! I listen to them with my dad growing up.