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FYI the "Watch Next" video displayed at the end of this video (end credits) does not match what you were actually saying at the end (about the funky 'fish'). What I see is a video about 17 Warcraft tweaks.
IT's not the swirlys that are the problem. Its having green swirlys on green grass (Fungle Folly) and purple swirlys on a purple floor (Nerub-ar Palace)
that is part of it for sure. but having inconsistency in being in or out of the swirly. and having every encounter being swirly Heking thing sucks. it isn't "fun" not everyone enjoys Bullet hecking type game style constant move move move game play is not for every one.
Or hidden under textures/vegetation so you can't see them. Or distorted because of strange terrain interactions(i.e. stairs, ramps, ect..) Couldn't tell you how many times I couldn't see the area for a mobs one-shot in a Delve and lost a life to it.
Exactly. Someone got it into their head that M+ is fun for raiders. I would say delves are better as a feeder for raids and M+ needs to be broken off like pvp
Crazy that no other part of the game gets as much criticism from the players as M+ but that's where they seem to keep wanting to force us. It's like they want to undo 15 years of progress by force and don't realize the cat's out of the bag and the barriers to entering and staying in M+ are too high. If they want more interest in M+ they should prevent people from demanding your birth certificate and credit score just to do a +8.
@@NiteSaiya Cool that it's exactly the same thing that they were trying to do with Arenas No matter how much you change the Blizzard devs, you just cant get the organization to shake "you think you want that, but you don't". Just stop.
@@NiteSaiya Back when M+ was new, I was saying that within 2-3 expansions, it was gonna get to ICC Gearscore levels of stupidity... was off by how long it took.
@@John-df3lm I have been thinking and saying this for years, I love raiding, but hate M+ so much, yet, if I want to have the best gear I have to M+. I want them to just split it off.
One Solution for the gear track issue: Create raid, dungeon, and delve gear tracks by adding different ilevel tracks for a piece of gear specific to each type of instanced PvE content (this is similar to how they solved the PvE vs. PvP gear issue). So, a single piece of gear would have a raid ilevel, dungeon ilevel, and a delve ilevel - with each track independently upgraded depending on the content you are doing. For example, let's say you got a piece of raid gear in a raid and it's set at 619 in a raid environment but only at 593 for delves. You could upgrade that gear for delves by doing delve content, otherwise, if you never do delves, then you have no need to upgrade it for delves. Same for dungeons. That way, players only have to do content they want to do and the gear they earn is only good for the content they are doing. No one can really complain because everyone has the option to have the best gear for their preferred content and they are never forced to do content they don't like. You can push the ilevel in each tract as far as your dedication and skill level goes. There's no "glass ceiling" in each track because the ilevel in each track is not overstepping onto other tracks. Further, no one can come into your content and trivialize the content because they had crazy high ilevel gear from doing other content. For clarity, let's say I got a helm drop in a high level delve but I also like to do mythic dungeons. In this example, let's say the helm now has 622 ilevel for delves but 597 ilevel for raids and 597 ilevel for dungeons. Now, I go into a mythic+ dungeon with that same helm. It's not great (because it is only ilevel 597 for dungeons), but it will do as I am only doing a low key. However, in the dungeon, I get a drop off the boss that matches the gear slot (helm) that allows me to upgrade the helm I am already using. Now, the piece is 605 ilevel in dungeons, 622 ilevel in delves, but is still 597 in raids. Let's say I get bored of delves and dungeons, but now I am in a raid guild... I can then just take that piece of gear in that direction by finding appropriate raid drops that upgrade it for the raid ilevel track. However, let's say I get really lucky and I am in a really cool new raid guild and a get a totally new helm drop in a high level raid that has a better stat mix for my class/spec/build. Now, if it makes sense, I can use the new helm, because it is both high ilevel for raids and it has optimal stats. But, so as not to lose my progress elsewhere, there would be a mechanism where I can shard the old helm and use the shard components to upgrade the delve and dungeon tracks on the new piece of gear so I don't lose the delve and dungeon benefits in case I ever wanted to get back to doing delves or dungeons. Personally, I would rather have something like this rather than what we have now. I think in the end it would be simpler, more intuitive, and more flexible. As far as open world content goes, I think it would use the highest PvE ilevel on that piece so that any type of instanced content rewards the player in a way that they will feel progressively powerful in the open world setting without having to do instanced content they don't like. Since wow's inception the idea has been: level to max >> do open world, get greens >> do dungeons, get blues >> do raids, get purples, in a serial manner. It kinds of makes sense intuitively but leads to a host of problems and complexities. Rather the new idea would be level to max >> do whatever type of content you like to do with progressive difficulty and gear that matches that type of content. You can choose to do one type, many types, or all types but you only get good ilevel gear for the type content you are actually doing.
The Dev's wanting to funnel solo content players into group play just to finish challenges in their solo play is stupid beyond belief. If max level delves require a certain ilvl, then that ilvl should be attainable through delves. If you're too scared to offer the gear necessary to do that, then you need to nerf delves to where that's feasible. Of course the obvious answer is right in front of them, which is to buff delve loot beyond +8 difficulty, and nerf Mythic difficulty so they don't feel like they're being cheated by not doing delves. They're failing to meet in the middle and that just causes grumbling from everyone.
They should double down and make the gear uniquely suited for delves. They play different than raids/mythic so why not. WoW is already many games within one, especially since the just dropped whole pokemon thing in there lol xD
Delves are significantly easier than other endgame PvE content (M+/raid). It makes perfect sense that their rewards are not as good as doing the most difficult content in the game. This is an MMO. "Solo content players" should not feel entitled to the most powerful items in the game.
@@EnhancedNightmare That’s kind of interesting, a lot of people asked for M+ dungeons to be broken off into their own thing like pvp when they started cannibalizing the raid community. Delves would actually be a better feeder for raids than M+ at current skill/gear levels.
I swear to f-ck i do not want to be smashed into mythic because they nerf delve rewards. Why can't they just have parellel paths and give us harder delves? I just want gear that makes the grind a bit less deadly, I've had so much fun with delves and soloing or duoing 8s with my partner, i don't want to be forced to do group content just to make world content manageable. Arg!
This. My other than one piece of gear I have everything at at least Champion 4/8 and it's not moving much with a trickle of crests per week to upgrade it.
@@graemeguthrie8758 I don't see how people grind M+ for gear. The people are terrible, yes, but the bigger issue is how fucking BORING it is running the same dungeons over and over again. Most players like me probably run the 8 tier 8s we need to fill the vault each week and that's it.
@liamdavies2823 that's what i don't get. They had it in their hands. The gold standard for m+. The only thing people didn't like was bursting. All they had to do was get rid of bursting. Sanguine was annoying but bursting was the only major headache. They should've just kept rolling with it....
The need to let Delves exist as it's own endgame pillar on par with the other pillars, rather than have it be a junior pillar like it is now. I do not enjoy Mythics, and there is nothing they can do to Delves that will change that -- but they can make Delves feel more rewarding than they currently do.
Delves are nice. Hopefully it will take as many down syndrome players from other forms of the game as possible. They just need to make delve gear only useable in delve. Like PvP gear, just harsher.
They probably haven't done that *yet* because Delves are new to the expansion so literally just testing the waters with it - see how well it was received. Once they see how much people like/don't like them and how they affect the game, I think they'll adjust accordingly. In the meantime, people are roasting them for not having done this upon release.
Thank you, you clearly get it about the delves to mythics+ transition. Mythics has proven to be the most toxic experience I have ever had and YES BLIZZARD please make delves 9+ drop better gear. I would rather crush those for hero gear.
Ion, you won't be funneling me to M+. You'll be funneling me out of subscribing. The only thing you could do to funnel me into M+ is somehow reenvision the way to get into M+ groups.
But if you add a group finder to mythic plus, the WoW fundamentalists will cry that you're taking away the "experience of making a group" Despite the fact that pre-made group finder is a complete piece of shit.
@@John-df3lmmaybe add some timer to boss kills but not the entire instance for extra loot cuz I'm sick of running m+ all weekend and not getting any loot, or useful loot
blizzard need to realize that not everyone watches WoW content on youtube and checks out the patch notes. Sometimes people just jump in for an event that everyone is talking about, it feels like super grindy shit and they are a very casual player so they just log out and go play another game and don't come back. They are going to lose those players everytime.
@ actiblizzard is a publicly traded company which means not looking to maximize profits is a crime as the CEO of the company so i think it matters if it presents a real risk of losing money
@gargaro10 bruh, you're losing money from people who play the game and hour for the month.. those people aren't here for the long haul anyways so who cares.
@@wm1573 Many players didn't raid and still had fun doing normal dungeons, where people actually interacted with each other, even if they were not from the same guild. Now we have too much focus on getting to max level ASAP and then quickly gearing up. Rush rush rush. Back then everything was slower and people enjoyed it. This "be on par with everyone" was nowhere near as important to many players as it is nowadays. The elitism also got out of hand. Greed too. This also leaked into WoW Classic. A MMORPG should be a living, breathing world. WoW hasn't felt like this for me in quite a while. Too many systems and too streamlined. Feels like a game in the bad sense of the word, which killed immersion. Bellular's video starting with the 10% reputation buff thing already shows the state of the game. "Quickly, come online and start grinding rep... erm, playing the game!" Everyone should be able to play at their own pace without the company behind constantly egging them on to play, so these players can "profit" from time limited bonuses. This is also, why I hated daily quests from the day the were introduced.
That's the opposite of what most people say. It's way easier than it used to be. Max level and way more good than most people could afford just for an epic mount.
@@godmagnus lol retail is NOT easier than it used to be. Yes maybe you got your epic mount slower, but everything else is way more hard than 15 years ago
@@wm1573 Over the course of a single weekend - since DF and now - if I want, I can make a new character and get to near (or complete) max level. And once at max level, I can have a 600 ilvl. That's without doing jack squat that is relatively competitive. Every mob in every zone is basically soloable, except maybe world bosses but in DF I was soloing them as well - not tried this expansion. I completed every Delve up to 8, completed literally every quest in every zone, etc etc... And I barely play *because* it is 100x easier.
pls remove the cap of valorstones and remove the requirement of 250 per spark, honestly for most of the people doing 8+ valorstones are lacking like hell, everything ask way too much, but you can't be saving them from the beginning because there is the stupid cap of 2k making you have to use it on stupid veteran gear or sometimes even champion when you want to save it, why put a cap if you there is no weekly cap?.
@@Amadorius1k i also cap it, but you didn't get the point? IT FORCES YOU to use it, and 95% of the time i am not missing crest, i am missing those god damn valorstones, if they are not going to weekly cap it, then don't cap it. it's stupid.
I agree, we need a whole expansion underwater! Vash'jir is still one of the most beautiful zones ever created. I just got to visit it again now for the secrets event and man, i miss when wow did look like that!
It’s an MMO, that stands for Massively Multiplayer Online. Go play a single player game if that’s what you want to play. Or stop complaining about having to do multiplayer things in a multiplayer game. Weirdo.
That’s just not true, its not just “solo players “ or “M+ players”. The reality is it’s ALL players that brick keys and refuse to learn so they create excuses and gaslight. That’s just WoW community now.
You're completely right about the Delves needing to go higher or at least some sort of 'fun' solo content. I don't raid like I used to and I don't have a steady M+ team. A lot of people just don't have a lot of time to throw at LFG
@@txdmsk Delves are still work, mate. No one's asking for welfare epics, they're asking for a full progression path if they want to keep working past the current cap.
@@txdmsk you can buy palace heroic runs + gear with enough gold any day of the week at this point.. so gatekeeping raids/m+ gear as "only I can have this because I did the effort" makes no sense
I wish they would allow excess currency to be a token in your bags until you spend the other instead of losing that currency when you can't collect it.
They should go like they did before they forgot how to do it: Copper, silver, gold.... and nothing for 20 years lol. Now we have million gold but why the fuck not make platinum etc, to cut off the zeroes? They same can be done with any currency. And please no more fucking trashcoins in my bag I just can't keep up! I play to escape the excel xDDD
I do wish they'd kept Shadow and Void as seperate things, Shadow being that which may originate from the Void but composes and harmonizes with the other elements as part of creation (The Night Elves are innately attuned to it, IE Shadowmeld, Night Warrior, etc), and Void being that which wants to consume and destroy. Maybe we can still have that, as Chronicles is just the titans view of the world.
@@MrHuntervad not necessarily. Shadow magic is a separate thing from void magic, as in that it doesnt seem to be a “hungry” magic. Theres a treasure in hallowfall that opens a portal to the “shadow realm” that brings forth shadow “elementals” and they do not seem the same at all to anything related to the void. Like, rogues and DKs use shadow magic but are not plagued with void whispers or void insanity
@ no, Im saying shadow and void are separate. Its possible there’s some relation, but they seem to be fundamentally different. Shadow doesnt seem to hunger like the void does.
This is what im talking about. They have a system that isn't pairing well with many players and instead of acknowledging it and adjusting it, they pat themselves on the back and turn their nose up at the problem. It gets annoying because it is always just riiiiight there on the edge of a great system design but they just slam on the brakes.
You need to be a pianist/RTS professional to play modern WoW at intended/desired skill/reflex caps, it's so awful. Vanilla/Classic Era is the best formula they've made because it was EverQuest but better. Imperfect class balance aside (a staple of all classic RPGs), it was a great RPG that you could play with several others from all ages/experiences.
I remember trying Wildstar, and being very happy that I could see exactly where the mobs' attacks were landing. I doubt it's difficult to create in WoW.
It was called "telegraphing" and we've been requesting that for ages for WoW, then once WS introduced it as a major feature, WoW devs shat their pants and copied it.
This is my whole issue with delves and M+. My husband and I love delve and enjoying them at our own pace. But forcing us to deal with the toxic bs trying to start out at M+6 due to our IL sucks.
Absolutely. If they aren’t going to push delve rewards higher they need to put gilded crests in lower M+ so everyone fleeing from M+ can hang out in the non toxic levels.
@@John-df3lm Yes. And they need to hand out ilvl700 gear once you ding 80 and ilvl799 if you pick a flower. And I mean, not a War Within flower, you FASCISTS! But any flower. Personally I prefer Peacebloom. I like to think of this game as World of Peacebloom.
Exact same boat. My husband and I love delves because it's content we both enjoy to do together and if we have to take a break in the middle of one then we aren't punished for it. He has no issue with Mythic +, but he is also leagues better than I am and I hate doing mythic + lol
Delves should give the same rewards as mythic+. The only diff should be delves are for solos and mythic for teamwork. I hope they wont lower the rewards from delves because if they do that wiuld pretty much kill delves.
I enjoy doing delves with friends. I don't want to see them even think of making it solo only content. I won't touch M+, regardless of the gear attached.
they can still give m+ rewards different colours/achievs/etc... just have them both as separate roads to walk. Having more verticals for your different kinds of players is a good thing. Delves suit my timing better because I can just park at a convenient location if the kids interrupt me, if I tried that in m+, I would be kicked within seconds
The rewards thing is a really tricky solve. If they overshoot, then their content is trivial and people gripe, if they undershoot, like you said people gripe even if they fix it later. Only undershooting gives them flexibility to adjust, players will never take nicely to rewards getting nerfed. Basically the options are get it exactly right every time, or lean conservative.
I don't really understand one thing and that's the ''delvers'' complaining about having to raid or m+. Sure, we HAVE solo content now but WoW is STILL an MMORPG, yes, even retail *should be*. Why do we want entirely competitive solo content in a massive multiplayer game? Huh
They just don't understand that Mythic+ sucks for most people, and without some kind of massive, fundamental change, that's not going to get any better.
Thank you very much for making the point about Delves in your video. I think Blizzard is missing the point and views your video to get the point. There are people who don’t want to do M+, but feel forced to do to keep progressing their character. Especially once you reach ilvl 603-610. But to be honest I think they were shocked about how many people left M+ to do Delves and weren’t planning on coming back. They want to force people back.
Most of the people who were playing M+ still play them, especially people who were doing higher keys. Delves are ultra casual and are best played solo.. so yeah.
@@Hekk. I’ve seen quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. Lots of people are glad the reign of the wicked M+ dungeons is over or at least battered. So many people have had to not engage in the toxic loop because delve gear is good enough. @Dr0Daymen may be on to something. It probably looks bad in a meeting when your small group content takes a nose dive in uptake.
@@Dr0Damyen You assumed that there are many people who stopped doing M+ and prefer delves, I know hundreds of people across many guilds and none of them stopped doing M+ because of Delves. People like to progress their characters, you can't progress above ilv619 if you just do delves.
@@Hekk. In my guild, the raiders often do m+ as well but I noticed that many of the casuals tend to do delves instead. It's just content for different people. The raiders are the most active people of the bunch and they have fixed groups to run the m+, are familiar with each other, have equal skill/gear etc.. Two of them pugged their keys recently due to unforseen absences and they said they would never do m+ again with strangers.
8:20 is the Valor chest still locked behind M+ rating? Because that was a pretty dick move that ties in nicely with what you said about funneling Delve players into M+.
350 Valorstones (that I never have enough of) for Veteran gear (that nobody needs) isn't a solution at all - nobody in their right mind will ever use this. Just make Valorstones a Warband currency, it's wild to me that both Honor and Conquest are Warband transferable but Valorstones and Crests aren't.
@ianwestc umm... Yeah. That's why they need to keep it in check where they can. People just don't like hearing the word "nerf". Makes them think their fun is being targeted. I get that. But acting like the only way to balance a game is by buffing is just misinformed or preferential there is NO tangible benefit for the refusal to use nerfs when it comes to maintaining, or improving, game balance. My main just got nerfed and oh well. Spec is still fun to play and gets me through the content I enjoy. I don't really care if my numbers are a little lower. But I also don't tie my enjoyment of the game to numbers.
Most of my friends spends hundreds of bucks on character boosts, race changes, faction changes, server moves and wow tokens (to buy gear, enchants) for specs they rerolled to. I know blizzard is infinitely untalented and stupid, but I'm sure that the "balance" changes are very much planned to milk players of their money with the mentioned services.
I love the delve system and vault system. But you definitely hit a wall after T8 and you end up just trying to get a good vault at weeks end. I refuse to do raids or M+, just not why I play the game. Blizzard needs to better address solo players.
man i loved the last segment, thank you!! it explains a lot! as someone who has tried to write a novel several times, if you tangle yourself in a big overarching world design you will inevitably fail when trying to write the more personal individual stories taking place in that world. Even JRR Tolkien who imagined this huge universe, just started with loose stories of epic elven battles and sneaky hobbits. there's such a dramatic (positive) difference in War Within's storytelling it's apalling!! the whole Arathi story alone is so perfect!
I don't want to ever HAVE TO do mythic plus in order to do raid. M+ is for speed demons and I am not one of those people. Even when I'm good at it and good at my class, I don't feel the fun they think they're selling in there. I'd rather gear up another way and then be able to raid. Alas, the real world struck me pretty hard near the begin of this season, and even some of the uplifting nice-people discords are by now expecting that just about anyone would be far more geared than I am now. I don't feel seen, Blizz, but thanks, I look forward to it if you actually do anything about it besides talk.
they know why its happening, because its by design. probably hoping people will tire of complaining eventually and they wont have to buff the reward structure. then people will be fine grinding their lives away in their little feeder box. consume product, await next product. the only issue is by that point, all the people passionate with the game will have grown apathetic and left for greener pastures.
That's a pretty stupid take.. they are losing money they know they are losing money they just don't know how to add rewards that's not a battle pass. Too much dev time to give them away for free
@CrizzleX this is a reply not a comment read both in future for context..I didn't say wow is generating negative profit.. their lack of acting people are quitting and if people quit they lose money.. pretty easy to get from point a to point b without selective reading
Quick note about the chest you can buy with valor stones, you need a mythic rating of 1000. As someone who doesnt do mythic content, this is useless to me. I hope they change that.
Totally agree with your take on Delves vs M+ - I made a deliberate decision to skip M+ this season to take a more chilled run at the game for a while and I'm at the gear threshold, where you are constantly hoping for good RNG so that a Delver's Bounty will drop so that you can then get a couple of gilded crests on your next run, to _eventually_ scrounge enough to upgrade a piece beyond 619. If I was to drop into M+ now despite having run Mists and NW countless times in SL, I would be an utter disaster for the other group members as well as defeating my original intent of taking a break from it for a season.
+11 Bountiful Delves, should drop ×3 Gilded Crests as standard. A bi- weekly quest to complete ×4 +11 Delves to get a random Mythic Track item at base level.
The problem is not only forcing players into the mythic +after delves but it being squished down to basically 10 levels from 20 when there was much more of a smooth ramp up and players could fill for comfortable going into it at mid levels and ramping up from there. The 20-10 squish was just a horrible idea, when thinking about catering to the bigger player base.
recently been playing Classic since I've only played retail for the past 7 years... and I get it now.... Classic is a fun RPG game... Retail is work...
while i dont NEED Delves to give out Mythic Gear, i wouldnt mind it. but in such case they should add more difficulties, so Mythic Gear isnt a +8 away.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind being able to get the best gear from delves, but it needs to have difficulty that reflects the level of reward. Getting Hero gear from every key and Myth every week from doing current level 8 delves would just invalidate every other kind of content by making gearing completely trivial
@@Candlemancer What's the problem with that? Delves already invalidate Follower Dungeons, Timewalking, Normal Dungeons, World Quests, the Machine quest, Heroic Dungeons, Normal Raids, Raid finder, Mythic Dungeons, Mythic +2-+7, partly M+8 and above, partly Heroic Raids. There is literally only the Mythic Raid that it does not invalidate. So why not just rename the game World of Delves, and make Brann our loading screen and remove all other content from the game?
Is there some special reason they can't make Delves past level 8 more difficult/challenging than they are and reward accordingly, or is that overly complicated?
all the crests is what turned me away from the game recently....way too many of them to figure out gear.....painful that they need so much currency..makes it confusing as hell as a causual solo player
I spent a lot of time teaching undergraduate labs and I can empathize with Ion's statement on reward balancing. I generally erred on the side of grading tough because I could always curve grades up at the end. I wouldn't want to be too generous and then have to curve scores down at the end.
I have enjoyed delves this season. I am not biting on M+. They can put whatever rewards they like in the system - I’m just not interested in this mode of play. Blizzard can’t incentivise me to play this mode, I am entirely happy to stop at the end of tier 8 delves.
Super excited about the telegraph change, hopefully the playerbase will actually be able to trust the visuals and information provided to do the mechanics. A solid outline on swirlies and hitboxes that match them would be a dream.
I would absolutely love it if they increased the level of the rewards from delves, as I am loving delves! Though, I would probably still hit up M+ on my main, as I also enjoy those, but if they want to up the delve gear, I'm all for it.
I always assumed the blurry edge of "swirlies" was on purpose, because WoW's netcode is not completely deterministic. If the edges of the damage zones were clear lines (like in XIV), then it could lead to BS situations where you were out of it but still get hit, especially with bad ping.
They need to keep delves scaling and offer max ilvl gear in vault literally use same model as M+ if it's supposed to be an end game pillar they should really make it it's own thing this would also give HC raiders access to more options then just being forced into M+ as the endgame because the barriers to enter mythic raiding is beyond absurd for a video game.
And hand out free ilvl700 gear as soon as you ding 80!!! So I don't have to challenge myself, or improve, or cooperate with others, or understand dungeon or class mechanics, or put in any effort whatsoever!!! Give me your soy latte, I'll hold it for you while you speak your truth! That is if your wife's boyfriend allows you to.
This problem is in delves so I don't really care but theres a delve where you need to hold a short tether on a mushroom while dodging swirlies and there's grass in the area that completely blends in with the swirlies because both are green...
I still don't understand why they think m+ needs to be this stressfull environment where every mob pack is a small encounter in itself and healers must be healing almost 80% of the time etc. Since Legion the playerbase showed that the fun lies within figuering out how to save time within the given possibilities and every time they remove exactly these but are not capable of removing bugs that exist since the dungeons release. Adding more time lost per death is also incredibly uninspired and beyond me why someone would think this is a good idea in a already toxic environment...
World of Warcraft addition: like bastions of D&D, the next expansion of WoW will feature a new city in which real estate can be purchased by individuals and held onto and modified, as long as the permits and taxes are paid. It will include districts for the very wealthy, as well as for the middle class and the poor. Bastions are completely modifiable, you just need the gold, labor, stone, lumber, etc. There are also guild bastions in which can be invaded by others! Held defend the guild bastions! The new city will hold monthly or so elections for mayor, as well as other powerful offices. And these offices do have power, meaning it is in the best interest of the players to be involved in local politics, or else deep corruption will occur!
5:48 The idea that Blizzard is forcing Delve players into M+ because of gear item levels is an absurd take. Players who enjoy Delves (but hate M+) are not going into M+ because the gear item level caps out in Delves earlier than M+. It's like arguing Blizzard is forcing players into Mythic raids because gear from all other content caps out earlier. 🫤 The problem is players who (casually) play M+ are gearing up in Delves and then going into higher level M+ (e.g. +7, +8) than their experience warrants because the lower level M+ doesn't reward gear they need. Players need to understand that M+ is challenging and requires their engagement with the content, which means practising on lower levels if they are not ready. If players just want to casually grind content to gear up because "reasons", M+ is not the content for them.
The cosmic bible will also be included in their Continuity Bible. This thing is MASSIVE (has to be, with everything in it). I'm not with Blizz or ever have been, but between years of Technical Writing for a major computer company and working on my own vampire series, I've had to build one for myself. Anything and everything they use in game is in there, from the colors of houses in a place to every NPC that has a name has a back story attached. Think of WoWicki and their massive database, it's like that but there is more in it. And somewhere in files are the story boards for plotting out stories and setting up quests. And yes, I want a peak at that manual. Not to cheat but to be amazed and excited about what's in it. :)
The solution to M+.. is just go back to what we had in BFA. Keys felt good going from 2-15's it was a slower stepping stone. 10s were not hard, 15s were easy with experience. Delves should be somewhere along the 5-10 zone.
When plunderstorm came out, I wasn't really that into the game mode (I did warm to it a bit towards the end), but the pace you earned rewards at was SO bad that after a few matches I was like "Well they are clearly going to buff the rewards for this, I'll just come back later". Of course they did buff it to a much more reasonable place later on. It's kinda crazy that even before there was this big pattern of them starting out low and then buffing things, it was so bad that it was immediately obvious they were going to change it, like within an hour and a half or so.
As a colorblind person these few years having colour based swirlies without a competent colorblind filter being part of the game has stopped me being able to raid. Reshade has some decent filters but I worry for being banned by using it.
Wait, what? World events systematically underperforming while entry-level expansion content overperforms, pushing people toward elite content that they can't do, thus pushing people away from the endgame? Are you telling me that having systems on top of systems on top of systems is a bad idea and that they've once again failed to find a way to make doing anything in the game appealing except by slapping player power on it?! Well, good to know that they've definitely learned their lessons. I'm sure they'll fix it this time around.
5:30 as if you find a group with delve8 gear.. i mean.. what is it? 616? the trinkets have been nerfed to the ground / never been really good.. so ya, delves are in my books just a neat stepping stone from heroics to myth+
Here's the thing: they under-estimate the loot levels. Every. Single. Time. They underestimate how grindy the rewards are. Every. Single. Time. At some point they should say, "Hey, let's up stop using our current estimation system because it's always wrong."
I was asking ChatGPT about the latest lore of WoW… Turns out that because The Helm of Domination was destroyed… We could get another expansion for a NEW Lich King!!
M+ needs more rewards for pushing higher than 2000/2400. Take PVP for example, the further you push PVP rating you are rewarded with weapon illusions, etc. M+ which has more of a player base get a mount at 2k and the glow on the shoulders at 2400, then there isnt a reason to push.
The problem with valor stones is not having too many. It’s a coupling of high cost to upgrade plus low drop volume. Bel just needs to do harder content
Swirlies are not bad on their face. Having an area to move out of to avoid damage is a mechanic that makes sense, and swirlies generally help people notice that there is something to avoid since it is animated. But there should be other solutions too, and swirlies are pretty over done.
honestly I don't mind a bit of grind so long as that grind isn't clipped by RNG, there is a reason I don't have the legion rep mounts and its not from a lack of trying. like really I hope Legion remix is a thing because Ho damn I want those mounts, specifically the storm drake. being able to toggle a bronze merchant and turning all the raid drops into bronze so you can just buy that one thing that refuses to drop, or add in some kind of Bad luck protection where the more you run a raid or dungeon the higher the drop rate becomes for low drop items or if its easier: just let us reset legacy raids so we can run them as many times as we want any time RNG is replaced with grind is perfectly fine by me.
Ground swirlies are perilously close to the only mechanic in WoW. I don't really have a problem with that (though I'd love to see more creativity, don't ask me how) but a translucent wall projected upward from the zone of the mechanic would at least mean you would see them.
My paladin is fully heroic raid geared but I HATE pugging m+ so I haven't been able to max a single piece. I just don't want to do the dungeons to get the crests. I get that it's my lack of friends to run them with but I just can't seem to find the folks make up a group to run these with and I just can't bring myself to pug them.
Magic in Warcraft is so fucked and undefined even with their polygonal charts. Why not make it clear cut like Warhammer with all magic coming from chaos and split into the various flavors of Winds? I’ve been playing my shaman since WOTLK and I’m STILL confused on how everything interconnects. Fuck just make a diagram and stick with it.
You don't know how your Shaman works? They draw power from the elementals, that's it. The only potentially confusing part is why mages have elementals, which is simple, they bind / create them through arcane magic, same with mages frost and fire spells, this is not elemental magic, its actually arcane. Very simple man, just because your incapable of understanding simple lore, doesn't make it complicated.
@@deathsacomin Confused, not that I didn't understand. Why so condescending? We both know the magic lore is convoluted as fuck. You have shamans that get power from the elements, but also some that derive it solely from the Elementals with contracts like Goblins? You have confusion on whether Water elementals mages summon are arcane water constructs or just enslaved elementals. How do they form, is it any mass of their respective element they can form from? What the hell are things like Wax Elementals in relation to the 4(5 technically) elements? How do shamans commune with their ancestors if they're stuck playing Battlebots in Maldraxxus? Again, magic in warcraft is so fucked and undefined. Headcanon can only do so much when it seems the writers are using their own headcanon too.
@@jikke9400 I'm being condescending because its automatically "fucked and undefined" if we don't have all the answers at this time. I'm very passionate about this game, and hearing people constantly bitch about it annoys me, so I apologize for that. I was not confused, but just couldn't remember, it had been years since I read into Mage's. But after some quick reading, mage's do in fact control elementals with Arcane magic, which makes sense, as Arcane fits into the cosmic force of "Order". Although I do agree it is definitely convoluted, I don't actually mind. It's a massive fucking universe, with a ton of cosmic forces. Despite that, I think they've done a pretty good job laying out information, and connecting these forces, and I do not agree that the writers are just winging it, and using their own head canon. Look, I would rather have a long term mystery, then a short term flat out explanation. There are countless assumptions and theories you can make to all aspects of the game, which is not only really cool, but also allows the game to have longevity, its how they've stayed away from retcons, simply by not giving full context, and using perspective based story telling. If you're not a fan of that, I understand, but that's how its been for years now.
Tier 8 is the highest level Delve I've tried so far and I can solo them on my fury warrior with relative ease. Although that one that it's the Nerubian capital other than Zekvir, I can't solo her. The one with all the posts and the big circles she throws. I've even tried watching videos and I can't figure out where I take so damn much damage from. It's almost a 1 shot
That's nice. I am capped at valor stones and can't spend them but since I primarily do delves and not mythics I have no mythic+ rating so I can't gear my alts with my excess valor stones??
Why do we need to log out and select another character to login? Why can’t I seamlessly do that from within game. Access character Menu from in game Select other character and login See Loading screen Tada, in game on new character.
So basically: The cosmology chart was based on the game but used as part of "training" for new designers, meaning the game ended up being based on the chart.
“If we starts out too generous it’s not like we can nerf rewards,” uhm that happens all the time people who grind day 1-2 have a huge lead on gearing then blizzard is like oops this needs limited
Idk about everyone else, but my issue with mythic+ this season has been being unable to get into anything higher than a 6. I got KSM and sit at 610+ ilvl, and no one wants me for 7+ they only want 620 ilvl with orange io, so I can't get hero gear, and I'm maxed on champion gear. Mythic+ standards are too high.
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FYI the "Watch Next" video displayed at the end of this video (end credits) does not match what you were actually saying at the end (about the funky 'fish'). What I see is a video about 17 Warcraft tweaks.
I’ll go check it out. Is this beginner friendly? As in no knowledge at all?
God Bless
IT's not the swirlys that are the problem. Its having green swirlys on green grass (Fungle Folly) and purple swirlys on a purple floor (Nerub-ar Palace)
Nah Swirlies are the problem. They aren't well defined lines and it yes, is obviously worse when its the same colors as well.
that is part of it for sure. but having inconsistency in being in or out of the swirly. and having every encounter being swirly Heking thing sucks. it isn't "fun" not everyone enjoys Bullet hecking type game style constant move move move game play is not for every one.
Ff14 mechanics markers are where it's at, don't need addons and a boss mod to deal with those, this is what WoW needs, clear consice markers.
Or hidden under textures/vegetation so you can't see them. Or distorted because of strange terrain interactions(i.e. stairs, ramps, ect..) Couldn't tell you how many times I couldn't see the area for a mobs one-shot in a Delve and lost a life to it.
yes the swirlies werent the issue, it was undefined boundaries and merging with the background that was the issue.
I thought the whole point of Delve was to be an alternate gear path, why is everything funneling into M+, stop making raiders and delvers do M+.
Exactly. Someone got it into their head that M+ is fun for raiders. I would say delves are better as a feeder for raids and M+ needs to be broken off like pvp
Crazy that no other part of the game gets as much criticism from the players as M+ but that's where they seem to keep wanting to force us. It's like they want to undo 15 years of progress by force and don't realize the cat's out of the bag and the barriers to entering and staying in M+ are too high. If they want more interest in M+ they should prevent people from demanding your birth certificate and credit score just to do a +8.
@@NiteSaiya Cool that it's exactly the same thing that they were trying to do with Arenas
No matter how much you change the Blizzard devs, you just cant get the organization to shake "you think you want that, but you don't". Just stop.
@@NiteSaiya Back when M+ was new, I was saying that within 2-3 expansions, it was gonna get to ICC Gearscore levels of stupidity... was off by how long it took.
@@John-df3lm I have been thinking and saying this for years, I love raiding, but hate M+ so much, yet, if I want to have the best gear I have to M+. I want them to just split it off.
One Solution for the gear track issue: Create raid, dungeon, and delve gear tracks by adding different ilevel tracks for a piece of gear specific to each type of instanced PvE content (this is similar to how they solved the PvE vs. PvP gear issue). So, a single piece of gear would have a raid ilevel, dungeon ilevel, and a delve ilevel - with each track independently upgraded depending on the content you are doing. For example, let's say you got a piece of raid gear in a raid and it's set at 619 in a raid environment but only at 593 for delves. You could upgrade that gear for delves by doing delve content, otherwise, if you never do delves, then you have no need to upgrade it for delves. Same for dungeons. That way, players only have to do content they want to do and the gear they earn is only good for the content they are doing. No one can really complain because everyone has the option to have the best gear for their preferred content and they are never forced to do content they don't like. You can push the ilevel in each tract as far as your dedication and skill level goes. There's no "glass ceiling" in each track because the ilevel in each track is not overstepping onto other tracks. Further, no one can come into your content and trivialize the content because they had crazy high ilevel gear from doing other content.
For clarity, let's say I got a helm drop in a high level delve but I also like to do mythic dungeons. In this example, let's say the helm now has 622 ilevel for delves but 597 ilevel for raids and 597 ilevel for dungeons. Now, I go into a mythic+ dungeon with that same helm. It's not great (because it is only ilevel 597 for dungeons), but it will do as I am only doing a low key. However, in the dungeon, I get a drop off the boss that matches the gear slot (helm) that allows me to upgrade the helm I am already using. Now, the piece is 605 ilevel in dungeons, 622 ilevel in delves, but is still 597 in raids. Let's say I get bored of delves and dungeons, but now I am in a raid guild... I can then just take that piece of gear in that direction by finding appropriate raid drops that upgrade it for the raid ilevel track. However, let's say I get really lucky and I am in a really cool new raid guild and a get a totally new helm drop in a high level raid that has a better stat mix for my class/spec/build. Now, if it makes sense, I can use the new helm, because it is both high ilevel for raids and it has optimal stats. But, so as not to lose my progress elsewhere, there would be a mechanism where I can shard the old helm and use the shard components to upgrade the delve and dungeon tracks on the new piece of gear so I don't lose the delve and dungeon benefits in case I ever wanted to get back to doing delves or dungeons.
Personally, I would rather have something like this rather than what we have now. I think in the end it would be simpler, more intuitive, and more flexible. As far as open world content goes, I think it would use the highest PvE ilevel on that piece so that any type of instanced content rewards the player in a way that they will feel progressively powerful in the open world setting without having to do instanced content they don't like. Since wow's inception the idea has been: level to max >> do open world, get greens >> do dungeons, get blues >> do raids, get purples, in a serial manner. It kinds of makes sense intuitively but leads to a host of problems and complexities. Rather the new idea would be level to max >> do whatever type of content you like to do with progressive difficulty and gear that matches that type of content. You can choose to do one type, many types, or all types but you only get good ilevel gear for the type content you are actually doing.
The Dev's wanting to funnel solo content players into group play just to finish challenges in their solo play is stupid beyond belief. If max level delves require a certain ilvl, then that ilvl should be attainable through delves. If you're too scared to offer the gear necessary to do that, then you need to nerf delves to where that's feasible. Of course the obvious answer is right in front of them, which is to buff delve loot beyond +8 difficulty, and nerf Mythic difficulty so they don't feel like they're being cheated by not doing delves. They're failing to meet in the middle and that just causes grumbling from everyone.
They should double down and make the gear uniquely suited for delves. They play different than raids/mythic so why not. WoW is already many games within one, especially since the just dropped whole pokemon thing in there lol xD
Well you'll never get a job at Blizzard. That made way too much sense.
Delves are significantly easier than other endgame PvE content (M+/raid). It makes perfect sense that their rewards are not as good as doing the most difficult content in the game. This is an MMO. "Solo content players" should not feel entitled to the most powerful items in the game.
@@Notorious1441 Yeah totally, why not split it like pvp/pve?
@@EnhancedNightmare That’s kind of interesting, a lot of people asked for M+ dungeons to be broken off into their own thing like pvp when they started cannibalizing the raid community.
Delves would actually be a better feeder for raids than M+ at current skill/gear levels.
As a returning solo player i just love the Delves concept. I hope they keep following that way and not changing it too much.
I swear to f-ck i do not want to be smashed into mythic because they nerf delve rewards. Why can't they just have parellel paths and give us harder delves? I just want gear that makes the grind a bit less deadly, I've had so much fun with delves and soloing or duoing 8s with my partner, i don't want to be forced to do group content just to make world content manageable. Arg!
Exactly. Just make Delve gear its own thing, like PvP gear. Make delve gear useless in M+ and raid.
@txdmsk so you want to force people into m+
NO
Oh.... see M+ is built around selling runs. Selling runs sells wow tokens. They have no similar monetization for delves.
@@ZS-bg7joyou're out of line but you're right
Your take on delves is 100% how I feel.
It sucks being a delve-only player. My gear progress was done weeks ago, and I'm stuck at a soft-cap now.
This. My other than one piece of gear I have everything at at least Champion 4/8 and it's not moving much with a trickle of crests per week to upgrade it.
Maybe make some friends it’s an mmo not Elden ring. Pre made groups could solve your problems
@@graemeguthrie8758 I don't see how people grind M+ for gear. The people are terrible, yes, but the bigger issue is how fucking BORING it is running the same dungeons over and over again. Most players like me probably run the 8 tier 8s we need to fill the vault each week and that's it.
@@willythemailboy2 it's much easier with a great dungeon pool like DF S3
@liamdavies2823 that's what i don't get. They had it in their hands. The gold standard for m+. The only thing people didn't like was bursting. All they had to do was get rid of bursting. Sanguine was annoying but bursting was the only major headache. They should've just kept rolling with it....
The need to let Delves exist as it's own endgame pillar on par with the other pillars, rather than have it be a junior pillar like it is now. I do not enjoy Mythics, and there is nothing they can do to Delves that will change that -- but they can make Delves feel more rewarding than they currently do.
This is the majority thinking for sure. I think it just takes time for them to see that most people still don’t want M+ content.
Delves are nice. Hopefully it will take as many down syndrome players from other forms of the game as possible. They just need to make delve gear only useable in delve. Like PvP gear, just harsher.
They probably haven't done that *yet* because Delves are new to the expansion so literally just testing the waters with it - see how well it was received. Once they see how much people like/don't like them and how they affect the game, I think they'll adjust accordingly. In the meantime, people are roasting them for not having done this upon release.
Thank you, you clearly get it about the delves to mythics+ transition. Mythics has proven to be the most toxic experience I have ever had and YES BLIZZARD please make delves 9+ drop better gear. I would rather crush those for hero gear.
Ion, you won't be funneling me to M+. You'll be funneling me out of subscribing. The only thing you could do to funnel me into M+ is somehow reenvision the way to get into M+ groups.
Get rid of timers and make the mobs stronger. Boom every single problem m+ has is fixed instantly
Add gilded crests to lower M+, put anything under a 5 in lfg finder, and take away timers. Game set match.
But if you add a group finder to mythic plus, the WoW fundamentalists will cry that you're taking away the "experience of making a group"
Despite the fact that pre-made group finder is a complete piece of shit.
@@John-df3lmmaybe add some timer to boss kills but not the entire instance for extra loot cuz I'm sick of running m+ all weekend and not getting any loot, or useful loot
I love delves. I hope they dont ruin the gearing. Im never going to do mythics so if they mess with delves too much it just leaves me nothing to do.
Also spending 30+ mins doing a mythic+ and you get no loot but 38g… that low reward is such a punch in the face tbh
blizzard need to realize that not everyone watches WoW content on youtube and checks out the patch notes. Sometimes people just jump in for an event that everyone is talking about, it feels like super grindy shit and they are a very casual player so they just log out and go play another game and don't come back. They are going to lose those players everytime.
I still don’t understand how to actually play the anniversary event lol
🖐 Me. I realized the anniversary event isn't really for my mid level character, so I logged out and have been playing 7DtD.
quiet frankly, those players dont matter... to blizzard or to anyone... nor should they...
@ actiblizzard is a publicly traded company which means not looking to maximize profits is a crime as the CEO of the company so i think it matters if it presents a real risk of losing money
@gargaro10 bruh, you're losing money from people who play the game and hour for the month.. those people aren't here for the long haul anyways so who cares.
WoW was amazing back in the day because it was fun. They're too focused on challenge now instead of fun. It's a game, not a job or punishment. :)
Well back then you had to play 8 hours a day to be on par with everyone. Now you can play one hour
@@wm1573 Many players didn't raid and still had fun doing normal dungeons, where people actually interacted with each other, even if they were not from the same guild. Now we have too much focus on getting to max level ASAP and then quickly gearing up. Rush rush rush.
Back then everything was slower and people enjoyed it. This "be on par with everyone" was nowhere near as important to many players as it is nowadays.
The elitism also got out of hand. Greed too. This also leaked into WoW Classic.
A MMORPG should be a living, breathing world. WoW hasn't felt like this for me in quite a while. Too many systems and too streamlined. Feels like a game in the bad sense of the word, which killed immersion. Bellular's video starting with the 10% reputation buff thing already shows the state of the game. "Quickly, come online and start grinding rep... erm, playing the game!" Everyone should be able to play at their own pace without the company behind constantly egging them on to play, so these players can "profit" from time limited bonuses. This is also, why I hated daily quests from the day the were introduced.
That's the opposite of what most people say. It's way easier than it used to be. Max level and way more good than most people could afford just for an epic mount.
@@godmagnus lol retail is NOT easier than it used to be. Yes maybe you got your epic mount slower, but everything else is way more hard than 15 years ago
@@wm1573 Over the course of a single weekend - since DF and now - if I want, I can make a new character and get to near (or complete) max level. And once at max level, I can have a 600 ilvl. That's without doing jack squat that is relatively competitive. Every mob in every zone is basically soloable, except maybe world bosses but in DF I was soloing them as well - not tried this expansion. I completed every Delve up to 8, completed literally every quest in every zone, etc etc... And I barely play *because* it is 100x easier.
pls remove the cap of valorstones and remove the requirement of 250 per spark, honestly for most of the people doing 8+ valorstones are lacking like hell, everything ask way too much, but you can't be saving them from the beginning because there is the stupid cap of 2k making you have to use it on stupid veteran gear or sometimes even champion when you want to save it, why put a cap if you there is no weekly cap?.
Bro i cap it x2 a week if i play daily
@@Amadorius1k i also cap it, but you didn't get the point? IT FORCES YOU to use it, and 95% of the time i am not missing crest, i am missing those god damn valorstones, if they are not going to weekly cap it, then don't cap it. it's stupid.
@@SupremoMancoSamaI'm opposite I'm always out of crests and get stonecapped really quickly
Yeah always at 2k stones.
If you are not constantly capped on valorstones you probably have more chromosomes than necessary.
Azshara should have her own expansion. BFA really rushed Nazjatar and wanted to see more of under the sea.
could not disagree more
BfA should have been about her rather than the stupid faction war. They could still have worked in Kul Tiras and Zandalar.
I'm hoping that Midnight is Azshara's expansion tbh.
I agree, we need a whole expansion underwater! Vash'jir is still one of the most beautiful zones ever created. I just got to visit it again now for the secrets event and man, i miss when wow did look like that!
never never never under sea again.
Again, solo players are being forced to play M+ where they will be deflected by other players who like to gate the access to gear upgrades.
It’s an MMO, that stands for Massively Multiplayer Online. Go play a single player game if that’s what you want to play. Or stop complaining about having to do multiplayer things in a multiplayer game. Weirdo.
That’s just not true, its not just “solo players “ or “M+ players”. The reality is it’s ALL players that brick keys and refuse to learn so they create excuses and gaslight. That’s just WoW community now.
08:50 You left out the part you need 1000 M+ rating to get the chests
Yeh I was like yay, went to look and buy the chest but nope
You're completely right about the Delves needing to go higher or at least some sort of 'fun' solo content. I don't raid like I used to and I don't have a steady M+ team. A lot of people just don't have a lot of time to throw at LFG
Yasss, more welfare epics. What if you could just get ilvl 700 with herbalism? You pick a flower and BAMM a full set of ilvl700 items!!!
@@txdmsk Delves are still work, mate. No one's asking for welfare epics, they're asking for a full progression path if they want to keep working past the current cap.
@@txdmsk you can buy palace heroic runs + gear with enough gold any day of the week at this point.. so gatekeeping raids/m+ gear as "only I can have this because I did the effort" makes no sense
I wish they would allow excess currency to be a token in your bags until you spend the other instead of losing that currency when you can't collect it.
Or have it mailed to you, to free up bag space.
Or even better, have a warband tab where every currency goes instead of transfering it back and forth.
They should go like they did before they forgot how to do it: Copper, silver, gold.... and nothing for 20 years lol. Now we have million gold but why the fuck not make platinum etc, to cut off the zeroes? They same can be done with any currency. And please no more fucking trashcoins in my bag I just can't keep up! I play to escape the excel xDDD
Isn’t this just removing the cap ? Which I’m all for
heres my issue, with the valor stones, they should either increase the limit you can have or make it so that it can be transferred between toons.
I like the Classic Timewalking Dungeons because they have very few, if any, swirlies.
They just have mobs that hit for 60% of your hp.
This is why scaling everything doesn't work/never did, your still the most powerful at lvl one with one spell then max level with a full kit. 🤦♂️
As a tank, the random stun effects are not fun
I do wish they'd kept Shadow and Void as seperate things, Shadow being that which may originate from the Void but composes and harmonizes with the other elements as part of creation (The Night Elves are innately attuned to it, IE Shadowmeld, Night Warrior, etc), and Void being that which wants to consume and destroy.
Maybe we can still have that, as Chronicles is just the titans view of the world.
That is actually indeed the case. Shadow and void are separate, if not distantly related.
Isn't void the source, while shadow the manifestasion of it's energy, but while you could be voidy, you don't have be to use it's energy.
@@MrHuntervad not necessarily. Shadow magic is a separate thing from void magic, as in that it doesnt seem to be a “hungry” magic. Theres a treasure in hallowfall that opens a portal to the “shadow realm” that brings forth shadow “elementals” and they do not seem the same at all to anything related to the void. Like, rogues and DKs use shadow magic but are not plagued with void whispers or void insanity
@@Egg67538 ye, that is what I said, you don't have to be void related, to use shadow magic, but shadow exists, because of voids fundemantal existence.
@ no, Im saying shadow and void are separate. Its possible there’s some relation, but they seem to be fundamentally different. Shadow doesnt seem to hunger like the void does.
This is what im talking about. They have a system that isn't pairing well with many players and instead of acknowledging it and adjusting it, they pat themselves on the back and turn their nose up at the problem. It gets annoying because it is always just riiiiight there on the edge of a great system design but they just slam on the brakes.
I just wish they would slow the game down a bit, I feel like I need an Adderall prescription to play the game effectively.
Udo
The game is as slow or fast as you want it to be. If the mythic+ timer offends you, you are low aykyuu garbage.
@@txdmskoh it’s you again. Seriously dude; take a vacation.
You need to be a pianist/RTS professional to play modern WoW at intended/desired skill/reflex caps, it's so awful. Vanilla/Classic Era is the best formula they've made because it was EverQuest but better. Imperfect class balance aside (a staple of all classic RPGs), it was a great RPG that you could play with several others from all ages/experiences.
I remember trying Wildstar, and being very happy that I could see exactly where the mobs' attacks were landing. I doubt it's difficult to create in WoW.
It was called "telegraphing" and we've been requesting that for ages for WoW, then once WS introduced it as a major feature, WoW devs shat their pants and copied it.
This is my whole issue with delves and M+. My husband and I love delve and enjoying them at our own pace. But forcing us to deal with the toxic bs trying to start out at M+6 due to our IL sucks.
Absolutely. If they aren’t going to push delve rewards higher they need to put gilded crests in lower M+ so everyone fleeing from M+ can hang out in the non toxic levels.
@@John-df3lm
Yes. And they need to hand out ilvl700 gear once you ding 80 and ilvl799 if you pick a flower. And I mean, not a War Within flower, you FASCISTS! But any flower. Personally I prefer Peacebloom. I like to think of this game as World of Peacebloom.
Exact same boat. My husband and I love delves because it's content we both enjoy to do together and if we have to take a break in the middle of one then we aren't punished for it.
He has no issue with Mythic +, but he is also leagues better than I am and I hate doing mythic + lol
The Archons are also referenced in the Priest Talents in game.
Delves should give the same rewards as mythic+. The only diff should be delves are for solos and mythic for teamwork.
I hope they wont lower the rewards from delves because if they do that wiuld pretty much kill delves.
I enjoy doing delves with friends. I don't want to see them even think of making it solo only content. I won't touch M+, regardless of the gear attached.
they can still give m+ rewards different colours/achievs/etc... just have them both as separate roads to walk. Having more verticals for your different kinds of players is a good thing. Delves suit my timing better because I can just park at a convenient location if the kids interrupt me, if I tried that in m+, I would be kicked within seconds
The rewards thing is a really tricky solve. If they overshoot, then their content is trivial and people gripe, if they undershoot, like you said people gripe even if they fix it later. Only undershooting gives them flexibility to adjust, players will never take nicely to rewards getting nerfed. Basically the options are get it exactly right every time, or lean conservative.
I don't really understand one thing and that's the ''delvers'' complaining about having to raid or m+. Sure, we HAVE solo content now but WoW is STILL an MMORPG, yes, even retail *should be*. Why do we want entirely competitive solo content in a massive multiplayer game? Huh
They just don't understand that Mythic+ sucks for most people, and without some kind of massive, fundamental change, that's not going to get any better.
It would be super easy to fix M+. They are just stupid.
Mythic Delves with endgame crests as a part of the end chest reward. (60-80% amount of a mythic+ group)
Thank you very much for making the point about Delves in your video. I think Blizzard is missing the point and views your video to get the point. There are people who don’t want to do M+, but feel forced to do to keep progressing their character. Especially once you reach ilvl 603-610. But to be honest I think they were shocked about how many people left M+ to do Delves and weren’t planning on coming back. They want to force people back.
Most of the people who were playing M+ still play them, especially people who were doing higher keys. Delves are ultra casual and are best played solo.. so yeah.
@@Hekk. I’ve seen quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. Lots of people are glad the reign of the wicked M+ dungeons is over or at least battered.
So many people have had to not engage in the toxic loop because delve gear is good enough.
@Dr0Daymen may be on to something. It probably looks bad in a meeting when your small group content takes a nose dive in uptake.
@@Hekk. What point are you trying to make?
@@Dr0Damyen You assumed that there are many people who stopped doing M+ and prefer delves, I know hundreds of people across many guilds and none of them stopped doing M+ because of Delves.
People like to progress their characters, you can't progress above ilv619 if you just do delves.
@@Hekk. In my guild, the raiders often do m+ as well but I noticed that many of the casuals tend to do delves instead. It's just content for different people. The raiders are the most active people of the bunch and they have fixed groups to run the m+, are familiar with each other, have equal skill/gear etc..
Two of them pugged their keys recently due to unforseen absences and they said they would never do m+ again with strangers.
8:20 is the Valor chest still locked behind M+ rating? Because that was a pretty dick move that ties in nicely with what you said about funneling Delve players into M+.
Apparently so. It's more of a middle finger to the player base than anything intended to be used by anyone but the M+ trolls.
I admit, I don't want to play mythic plus... I cannot be bothered to do heroics I would rather do solo content *shrugs*
350 Valorstones (that I never have enough of) for Veteran gear (that nobody needs) isn't a solution at all - nobody in their right mind will ever use this.
Just make Valorstones a Warband currency, it's wild to me that both Honor and Conquest are Warband transferable but Valorstones and Crests aren't.
If you are not always on the valorstone cap that means you are mentally handicapped and should not be allowed to vote or drive.
you also need a mythic rating to buy the boxes...
BEGONE BOTS
Boots begin
@@williamkirkland2222 I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE! I love it xD
BEEP BOOP 🤖
Beep bop boop
or they could buff m+ rewards so that I don't feel like I'm wasting my time completing the dungeon
Can they just stop buffing and nerfing classes by 25%+ every patch. Just buff the lower performers and make some small tweaks and small % changes.
Only buffing leads to power creep, or is much more likely to
They dont tap things with a jewelers hammer. They use a sledgehammer every time.
@@clintmcbride7830 power creep is built into the game. It is the natural state of it
@ianwestc umm... Yeah. That's why they need to keep it in check where they can. People just don't like hearing the word "nerf". Makes them think their fun is being targeted. I get that. But acting like the only way to balance a game is by buffing is just misinformed or preferential there is NO tangible benefit for the refusal to use nerfs when it comes to maintaining, or improving, game balance. My main just got nerfed and oh well. Spec is still fun to play and gets me through the content I enjoy. I don't really care if my numbers are a little lower. But I also don't tie my enjoyment of the game to numbers.
Most of my friends spends hundreds of bucks on character boosts, race changes, faction changes, server moves and wow tokens (to buy gear, enchants) for specs they rerolled to.
I know blizzard is infinitely untalented and stupid, but I'm sure that the "balance" changes are very much planned to milk players of their money with the mentioned services.
I love the delve system and vault system. But you definitely hit a wall after T8 and you end up just trying to get a good vault at weeks end. I refuse to do raids or M+, just not why I play the game. Blizzard needs to better address solo players.
man i loved the last segment, thank you!! it explains a lot! as someone who has tried to write a novel several times, if you tangle yourself in a big overarching world design you will inevitably fail when trying to write the more personal individual stories taking place in that world. Even JRR Tolkien who imagined this huge universe, just started with loose stories of epic elven battles and sneaky hobbits. there's such a dramatic (positive) difference in War Within's storytelling it's apalling!! the whole Arathi story alone is so perfect!
I don't want to ever HAVE TO do mythic plus in order to do raid. M+ is for speed demons and I am not one of those people. Even when I'm good at it and good at my class, I don't feel the fun they think they're selling in there. I'd rather gear up another way and then be able to raid.
Alas, the real world struck me pretty hard near the begin of this season, and even some of the uplifting nice-people discords are by now expecting that just about anyone would be far more geared than I am now.
I don't feel seen, Blizz, but thanks, I look forward to it if you actually do anything about it besides talk.
they know why its happening, because its by design. probably hoping people will tire of complaining eventually and they wont have to buff the reward structure. then people will be fine grinding their lives away in their little feeder box. consume product, await next product. the only issue is by that point, all the people passionate with the game will have grown apathetic and left for greener pastures.
That's a pretty stupid take.. they are losing money they know they are losing money they just don't know how to add rewards that's not a battle pass. Too much dev time to give them away for free
@CrizzleX this is a reply not a comment read both in future for context..I didn't say wow is generating negative profit.. their lack of acting people are quitting and if people quit they lose money.. pretty easy to get from point a to point b without selective reading
I don't raid or do m+ on retail, I have had a hard time getting enough Valor stones to upgrade my gear lol
Quick note about the chest you can buy with valor stones, you need a mythic rating of 1000. As someone who doesnt do mythic content, this is useless to me. I hope they change that.
So they're of no use to anyone important.
Edit: That is not sarcasm, the chests are legitimately useless to 90+% of the player base.
Totally agree with your take on Delves vs M+ - I made a deliberate decision to skip M+ this season to take a more chilled run at the game for a while and I'm at the gear threshold, where you are constantly hoping for good RNG so that a Delver's Bounty will drop so that you can then get a couple of gilded crests on your next run, to _eventually_ scrounge enough to upgrade a piece beyond 619. If I was to drop into M+ now despite having run Mists and NW countless times in SL, I would be an utter disaster for the other group members as well as defeating my original intent of taking a break from it for a season.
+11 Bountiful Delves, should drop ×3 Gilded Crests as standard. A bi- weekly quest to complete ×4 +11 Delves to get a random Mythic Track item at base level.
The problem is not only forcing players into the mythic +after delves but it being squished down to basically 10 levels from 20 when there was much more of a smooth ramp up and players could fill for comfortable going into it at mid levels and ramping up from there. The 20-10 squish was just a horrible idea, when thinking about catering to the bigger player base.
recently been playing Classic since I've only played retail for the past 7 years... and I get it now.... Classic is a fun RPG game... Retail is work...
while i dont NEED Delves to give out Mythic Gear, i wouldnt mind it. but in such case they should add more difficulties, so Mythic Gear isnt a +8 away.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind being able to get the best gear from delves, but it needs to have difficulty that reflects the level of reward. Getting Hero gear from every key and Myth every week from doing current level 8 delves would just invalidate every other kind of content by making gearing completely trivial
@@Candlemancer
What's the problem with that?
Delves already invalidate Follower Dungeons, Timewalking, Normal Dungeons, World Quests, the Machine quest, Heroic Dungeons, Normal Raids, Raid finder, Mythic Dungeons, Mythic +2-+7, partly M+8 and above, partly Heroic Raids.
There is literally only the Mythic Raid that it does not invalidate.
So why not just rename the game World of Delves, and make Brann our loading screen and remove all other content from the game?
@@txdmskI think you need to take a break from wow bud.
"Peari shell"? Might wanna check those glasses' prescriptions lad
Is there some special reason they can't make Delves past level 8 more difficult/challenging than they are and reward accordingly, or is that overly complicated?
The reason given is that they don't want delves to make M+ completely irrelevant. The system is working as intended.
all the crests is what turned me away from the game recently....way too many of them to figure out gear.....painful that they need so much currency..makes it confusing as hell as a causual solo player
I spent a lot of time teaching undergraduate labs and I can empathize with Ion's statement on reward balancing. I generally erred on the side of grading tough because I could always curve grades up at the end. I wouldn't want to be too generous and then have to curve scores down at the end.
I have enjoyed delves this season. I am not biting on M+. They can put whatever rewards they like in the system - I’m just not interested in this mode of play. Blizzard can’t incentivise me to play this mode, I am entirely happy to stop at the end of tier 8 delves.
Super excited about the telegraph change, hopefully the playerbase will actually be able to trust the visuals and information provided to do the mechanics.
A solid outline on swirlies and hitboxes that match them would be a dream.
As an on off player since beta one of the things that brought me back is the delv feature, hope they keep working on it.
I would absolutely love it if they increased the level of the rewards from delves, as I am loving delves! Though, I would probably still hit up M+ on my main, as I also enjoy those, but if they want to up the delve gear, I'm all for it.
Tbh Traveler vendor monthly rewards hint about Azshara return the moment we got that giant fish mount
I always assumed the blurry edge of "swirlies" was on purpose, because WoW's netcode is not completely deterministic. If the edges of the damage zones were clear lines (like in XIV), then it could lead to BS situations where you were out of it but still get hit, especially with bad ping.
Yeah, but you already have those situations sometimes, especially with some spells in Dawnbreaker and CoT.
all i want is the follower dungeons to be more rewarding. 😊
They need to keep delves scaling and offer max ilvl gear in vault literally use same model as M+ if it's supposed to be an end game pillar they should really make it it's own thing this would also give HC raiders access to more options then just being forced into M+ as the endgame because the barriers to enter mythic raiding is beyond absurd for a video game.
Get rid of the timers in mythic+ and everything will be instantly fixed.
It will take a bit for the tryhard gogo toxicity to disappear but you are absolutely correct
And hand out free ilvl700 gear as soon as you ding 80!!! So I don't have to challenge myself, or improve, or cooperate with others, or understand dungeon or class mechanics, or put in any effort whatsoever!!!
Give me your soy latte, I'll hold it for you while you speak your truth! That is if your wife's boyfriend allows you to.
@@txdmskwhoooaaaa slow down there you edgy little devil you. Did you take 7 hours to craft that incredibly original insult? Calm down nerd.
@@txdmsk dude, what's your problem?
@@timothypoburs9269 He defines his entire self worth in terms of his M+ rating.
This problem is in delves so I don't really care but theres a delve where you need to hold a short tether on a mushroom while dodging swirlies and there's grass in the area that completely blends in with the swirlies because both are green...
I still don't understand why they think m+ needs to be this stressfull environment where every mob pack is a small encounter in itself and healers must be healing almost 80% of the time etc.
Since Legion the playerbase showed that the fun lies within figuering out how to save time within the given possibilities and every time they remove exactly these but are not capable of removing bugs that exist since the dungeons release.
Adding more time lost per death is also incredibly uninspired and beyond me why someone would think this is a good idea in a already toxic environment...
World of Warcraft addition: like bastions of D&D, the next expansion of WoW will feature a new city in which real estate can be purchased by individuals and held onto and modified, as long as the permits and taxes are paid. It will include districts for the very wealthy, as well as for the middle class and the poor. Bastions are completely modifiable, you just need the gold, labor, stone, lumber, etc. There are also guild bastions in which can be invaded by others! Held defend the guild bastions! The new city will hold monthly or so elections for mayor, as well as other powerful offices. And these offices do have power, meaning it is in the best interest of the players to be involved in local politics, or else deep corruption will occur!
Increasing the rewards from mythic plus is exactly what they need to do. More loot per run, and lower the keystone achievements.
5:48 The idea that Blizzard is forcing Delve players into M+ because of gear item levels is an absurd take. Players who enjoy Delves (but hate M+) are not going into M+ because the gear item level caps out in Delves earlier than M+. It's like arguing Blizzard is forcing players into Mythic raids because gear from all other content caps out earlier. 🫤
The problem is players who (casually) play M+ are gearing up in Delves and then going into higher level M+ (e.g. +7, +8) than their experience warrants because the lower level M+ doesn't reward gear they need. Players need to understand that M+ is challenging and requires their engagement with the content, which means practising on lower levels if they are not ready. If players just want to casually grind content to gear up because "reasons", M+ is not the content for them.
The cosmic bible will also be included in their Continuity Bible. This thing is MASSIVE (has to be, with everything in it). I'm not with Blizz or ever have been, but between years of Technical Writing for a major computer company and working on my own vampire series, I've had to build one for myself. Anything and everything they use in game is in there, from the colors of houses in a place to every NPC that has a name has a back story attached. Think of WoWicki and their massive database, it's like that but there is more in it. And somewhere in files are the story boards for plotting out stories and setting up quests.
And yes, I want a peak at that manual. Not to cheat but to be amazed and excited about what's in it. :)
The solution to M+.. is just go back to what we had in BFA.
Keys felt good going from 2-15's it was a slower stepping stone.
10s were not hard, 15s were easy with experience.
Delves should be somewhere along the 5-10 zone.
"Start to" 20 years is a slow burning start. Also, I was blown away when I heard them say delves give good rewards
When plunderstorm came out, I wasn't really that into the game mode (I did warm to it a bit towards the end), but the pace you earned rewards at was SO bad that after a few matches I was like "Well they are clearly going to buff the rewards for this, I'll just come back later". Of course they did buff it to a much more reasonable place later on. It's kinda crazy that even before there was this big pattern of them starting out low and then buffing things, it was so bad that it was immediately obvious they were going to change it, like within an hour and a half or so.
As a colorblind person these few years having colour based swirlies without a competent colorblind filter being part of the game has stopped me being able to raid. Reshade has some decent filters but I worry for being banned by using it.
Wait, what? World events systematically underperforming while entry-level expansion content overperforms, pushing people toward elite content that they can't do, thus pushing people away from the endgame? Are you telling me that having systems on top of systems on top of systems is a bad idea and that they've once again failed to find a way to make doing anything in the game appealing except by slapping player power on it?!
Well, good to know that they've definitely learned their lessons. I'm sure they'll fix it this time around.
As a pvp player i need something to spend my bloody tokens on now that im fully geared. They are just stacking up by the thousand
5:30 as if you find a group with delve8 gear.. i mean.. what is it? 616? the trinkets have been nerfed to the ground / never been really good.. so ya, delves are in my books just a neat stepping stone from heroics to myth+
Here's the thing: they under-estimate the loot levels. Every. Single. Time. They underestimate how grindy the rewards are. Every. Single. Time. At some point they should say, "Hey, let's up stop using our current estimation system because it's always wrong."
Separate raid, m+, and delve gear. It would solve every problem with the stupid gearing system.
Exactly. It would be so easy to implement and it would make everyone happy. Hell, I would probably do all of them for the extra sense of progression.
I kinda wish we had a trail of what Irridicron is up too
When are we getting warband for BFA? I'm sure we completed most of this Achievement, but with alts or old mains.
I was asking ChatGPT about the latest lore of WoW…
Turns out that because The Helm of Domination was destroyed… We could get another expansion for a NEW Lich King!!
M+ needs more rewards for pushing higher than 2000/2400. Take PVP for example, the further you push PVP rating you are rewarded with weapon illusions, etc. M+ which has more of a player base get a mount at 2k and the glow on the shoulders at 2400, then there isnt a reason to push.
The problem with valor stones is not having too many. It’s a coupling of high cost to upgrade plus low drop volume. Bel just needs to do harder content
Swirlies are not bad on their face. Having an area to move out of to avoid damage is a mechanic that makes sense, and swirlies generally help people notice that there is something to avoid since it is animated. But there should be other solutions too, and swirlies are pretty over done.
honestly I don't mind a bit of grind so long as that grind isn't clipped by RNG, there is a reason I don't have the legion rep mounts and its not from a lack of trying. like really I hope Legion remix is a thing because Ho damn I want those mounts, specifically the storm drake.
being able to toggle a bronze merchant and turning all the raid drops into bronze so you can just buy that one thing that refuses to drop, or add in some kind of Bad luck protection where the more you run a raid or dungeon the higher the drop rate becomes for low drop items
or if its easier: just let us reset legacy raids so we can run them as many times as we want
any time RNG is replaced with grind is perfectly fine by me.
Ground swirlies are perilously close to the only mechanic in WoW. I don't really have a problem with that (though I'd love to see more creativity, don't ask me how) but a translucent wall projected upward from the zone of the mechanic would at least mean you would see them.
My paladin is fully heroic raid geared but I HATE pugging m+ so I haven't been able to max a single piece. I just don't want to do the dungeons to get the crests. I get that it's my lack of friends to run them with but I just can't seem to find the folks make up a group to run these with and I just can't bring myself to pug them.
Magic in Warcraft is so fucked and undefined even with their polygonal charts. Why not make it clear cut like Warhammer with all magic coming from chaos and split into the various flavors of Winds?
I’ve been playing my shaman since WOTLK and I’m STILL confused on how everything interconnects. Fuck just make a diagram and stick with it.
You don't know how your Shaman works? They draw power from the elementals, that's it. The only potentially confusing part is why mages have elementals, which is simple, they bind / create them through arcane magic, same with mages frost and fire spells, this is not elemental magic, its actually arcane. Very simple man, just because your incapable of understanding simple lore, doesn't make it complicated.
@@deathsacomin
Confused, not that I didn't understand. Why so condescending? We both know the magic lore is convoluted as fuck.
You have shamans that get power from the elements, but also some that derive it solely from the Elementals with contracts like Goblins? You have confusion on whether Water elementals mages summon are arcane water constructs or just enslaved elementals.
How do they form, is it any mass of their respective element they can form from? What the hell are things like Wax Elementals in relation to the 4(5 technically) elements? How do shamans commune with their ancestors if they're stuck playing Battlebots in Maldraxxus?
Again, magic in warcraft is so fucked and undefined. Headcanon can only do so much when it seems the writers are using their own headcanon too.
@@jikke9400 I'm being condescending because its automatically "fucked and undefined" if we don't have all the answers at this time. I'm very passionate about this game, and hearing people constantly bitch about it annoys me, so I apologize for that.
I was not confused, but just couldn't remember, it had been years since I read into Mage's. But after some quick reading, mage's do in fact control elementals with Arcane magic, which makes sense, as Arcane fits into the cosmic force of "Order".
Although I do agree it is definitely convoluted, I don't actually mind. It's a massive fucking universe, with a ton of cosmic forces. Despite that, I think they've done a pretty good job laying out information, and connecting these forces, and I do not agree that the writers are just winging it, and using their own head canon. Look, I would rather have a long term mystery, then a short term flat out explanation. There are countless assumptions and theories you can make to all aspects of the game, which is not only really cool, but also allows the game to have longevity, its how they've stayed away from retcons, simply by not giving full context, and using perspective based story telling. If you're not a fan of that, I understand, but that's how its been for years now.
Tier 8 is the highest level Delve I've tried so far and I can solo them on my fury warrior with relative ease. Although that one that it's the Nerubian capital other than Zekvir, I can't solo her. The one with all the posts and the big circles she throws. I've even tried watching videos and I can't figure out where I take so damn much damage from. It's almost a 1 shot
Boss gets empowered every so often during the fight, if you can't tank it you gotta stay away.
2:30 hopefully it becomes consistent and across all versions and one day they remove flash bang frost traps.
That's nice. I am capped at valor stones and can't spend them but since I primarily do delves and not mythics I have no mythic+ rating so I can't gear my alts with my excess valor stones??
Why do we need to log out and select another character to login? Why can’t I seamlessly do that from within game.
Access character Menu from in game
Select other character and login
See Loading screen
Tada, in game on new character.
The problem is rested bonuses and insta log outs not being a thing in the open world. This probably connects heavily with server and backend.
So basically: The cosmology chart was based on the game but used as part of "training" for new designers, meaning the game ended up being based on the chart.
Monk WW got tuned! Where's Havoc 😢 felt like WW was the other forgotten for awhile.
DH will see changes next xpac when they get their healer tree /s
I won’t play Mythic dungeons. I dislike them a lot as a healer main. I am glad for delves. Else I would be done with the season already.
Even if people stop playing temporarily because of bad patch lunch, they never deactivate their subscription so it means nothing to Blizzard.
“If we starts out too generous it’s not like we can nerf rewards,” uhm that happens all the time people who grind day 1-2 have a huge lead on gearing then blizzard is like oops this needs limited
Idk about everyone else, but my issue with mythic+ this season has been being unable to get into anything higher than a 6. I got KSM and sit at 610+ ilvl, and no one wants me for 7+ they only want 620 ilvl with orange io, so I can't get hero gear, and I'm maxed on champion gear. Mythic+ standards are too high.