The REAL Toxic Part of Mythic+
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- #shorts The Toxic Part of Mythic+
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Ideally players learn mechanics in low keys and carry that knowledge into higher keys to succeed. The problem is most mechanics don't kill in low keys. So players who don't understand the exponential nature of M+ scaling come up thinking every other mechanic is healable damage and they learn nothing.
this. had a run last night with the guild and one of them was explaining mechanics to another dps. i kept having to interject saying, no that'll kill you - that doesnt just knock back, itll kill you at this level - that doesnt just stun, that'll kill you at this level etc. so even when they do know mechanics, not knowing that something will kill you at a higher level is an issue. i mean it should be a given, right, considering the scaling but if you only do a handful of keys for a box every week, thats where a lot of random one shot deaths are coming from. and too many of those scuff a key.
True
False. 1-10, healers are just expected to carry. DPS just don't try mechanics at all
"Oh no big deal that cast got off, it wo do any-" *one taps priest* "oh"
@@bighouse581 Chain lightning in uldaman XD
My FAVOURITE thing to have happen is a dps stands in something, it doesn't quite kill them, but then there is a party-wide ability that happens immediately after and they die to it then blame the healer for dying to that mechanic 🙃. PSA: if you are the only one dying, you fucked up.
YESS every time 😂
This… 100% this!
Except some abilities are targeted abilities, like on TJS last boss, you can die alone if the healer is bad. Healer main speaking.
Haha same happened in RLP. And yes, they blamed me that the key was bricked
I had a TJS +22 with a shaman. He called me retard after he died ad first boss. I instantly ignored him through the rest of the dungeon.
Being toxic is being toxic. being ignorant or lazy, isn't toxic. and I think people overuse the word "toxic" way too often. I've dealt with toxic assholes before. the ones where even when you know what to do but sometimes something just goes sideways, and they flip shit or break group over it, that's toxic. Being lazy and not asking beforehand or consuming guide material is an entirely different issue.
Always tough to get nuance in a short video but I think the main point of this reddit post was that "willful ignorance" by NOT knowing what you're doing can ruin the experience of others and I think that is something that commonly happens in higher-end content and is very frustrating. In lower end content thats precisely where people should be learning
@@AutomaticJaklol but this NEVER happens. People dont learn because it doesnt get difficult enough.
On top of that, you have 2k io rated mfers throwing keys so it doesnt make them look any better and the expectations of a player is just terrible
when people refuse to interact with mechanics and write "just heal" when i call them out I would consider that "toxic" honestly. Especially when they fail to realize i can't possibly heal through them. (experience from +22 to +24 range)
One thing I noticed was a massive difference between people doing 22's and people doing 20's. When everything becomes a one shot and you cannot blame the healer for not healing through the mistakes because if you make a mistake you instantly die actually makes the healers life easier. Going from doing 45k HPS overall in a +18 all the way to down to 19k HPS in a +22. Just because DPS are forced to kick and CC and do mechanics.
Its great you feel that way! Everyone in my keys just die anyway, I also think I’ve encounters every but there is in M+
Invisible laser in uldaman 4th boss more then 3 times ( all my keys ). Flys in HOI bulging into floor so you are always in combat and I can’t kill them ( my key ). Underrot first boss frontal snaps to the tank ( my key ) and why I say my key is because this is in 22s 23s and I’m not a meta spec so it hurts as fuck when u have a good run and then everything goes down the drain because of a bug! And these are just some of them!
Imagine thinking your time is worth anymore than anyone else’s.. and to think you “wasted your time” whilst playing a game.. should really be all you need to figure out that you don’t actually like playing the game. You do it for accolades.
I healed every expansion, this is the first expansion where I DPS. By far DPS is the easiest role, as a healer the most frustrating part was basically enabling people to not do mechanics and heal the thought it. If you want learn mechanics outside the dungeon that’s fine, but you should at least to heroics to see what yah have to do. If you don’t know your class or role practice on dummy or learn what spells you should use. Toxic as hell jumping in there and not knowing what to do than blaming a tank or healer cause you died as dps.
I feel like the m+ timer is the catalyst here for a lot of it as it doesn't leave time for normal interaction to occur. Most people, if given the chance, would be decent to one another, but the anxiety or threat of less of a reward changes their demeanor.
This post was made it s2 (i think), so before the changes to Mythic 0s and m+ affix addition , it's a bit better now, but i feel people are still conditioned to not communicate.
I watch my guides and play mechanics, this is purely observational.
There seem to be two camps on
toxicity…
toxicity = wasting other peoples time
toxicity = verbal abuse
To me this isn’t even a discussion verbal abuse or just being rude has no justification especially in a video game where whatever you do or accomplish is ultimately a waste of time like most things in life. Regardless of if it’s stressful for me to heal or not… the nicer people the more I’m inclined to continue playing.
The biggest problem I see are people who buy carries, their guild runs them to get a bloated io or the viewer carries. Is pugs have to roll the dice. But that's why I don't go past 20s it's bit worth the headache to pug
That’s why there is a healer shortage
is there tho? seems like the groups in LFG are waiting for tank
Don't forget when the healer makes a mistake, group disbands and you get dms from them insulting and saying your shit.
I just had a squishy hunter today whom didn't use a defensive against the uldaman's lizard shard, even pain suppression wasn't enough to stop the dot, then he blamed me for being a bad healer
I was tanking pug 20s yesterday and still had DPS and a healer run through the area I was facing both bosses and trash when the frontals took place. One group fell apart and two others timed the keys. I was just amazed by the lack of understanding of the mechanics taking place at that level of key.
I Had a Hunter today in galakron who died because of necrosis because he didnt Know he Need to Go to the Tank. On+19. He already done it in 19 ...
I totally disagree with that post. I think people min-max or optimize the fun out of the game. It used to be that games were meant to be discovered on their own by you, yourself. It used to be that you didn't look at cheat books, use cheat codes or anything advantageous. When we were younger and playing videogames, a lot of the fun was discovery and playing by your own set of rules. Sadly, society backtracked this and turned the games into "go go go" race against time and then also they said "you must read guide." That's not how fun works. That's not how discovery works, either.
I think its pretty ironic when people cry about the higher Io players being "toxic", but I think you know that damn near 99% of people pushing 24s/25s/26s+ are the LEAST toxic. I know Ive experienced little to no toxicity this season at 3.2-3.3k+, but if Im gearing a new alt and im doing 16s-18s? Theres endless toxicity from people who think theyre good, but are actually shit. Btw, great job healing our nokhud today, would have loved to ran 26 AV with you but I know our healer would have been a bit salty if we ditched him.
yeah it non kowing stuff that make m + toxic not the elitist mindset and bad dung design. it funny how toxic wow players cant seem to understand that toxic players often the top players not the bad player alone .
Indeed i had a boomy in a 19 brick a key cause i brezzed a dps in the first boss and then the tank instead of just continuing to the boss again hes started laying into me say i shouldnt have brezzed a dps lol meanwhile him wasting thw 2 mins typing aitting at the entrance really bricked the key how the fuck was i to know a 418 prot warr was gonna wet noodle to the first set of adds
I love all your videos, please keep making them!
If any of you haven't already you should watch
Why it's rude to suck at warcraft by Folding Ideas here on youtube
Lol why not both - people should know what they're doing in higher keys, but mistakes are not an excuse to be an asshole. It's not like toxicity is justified just because someone is wasting other peoples' time, like - both folks are in the wrong there.
I've seen toxic behavior in every facet of the game on every difficulty level. You would be amazed how many folks wanna act like they're world first raiders when they're in LFR. One time, I went into a heroic dungeon so I could practice tanking, and a ret pally ran ahead of me to start pulls and yelled at me to taunt. It's almost like the toxicity in the community exists everywhere, and no one knows how to stop it.
I always tell players who've just swapped to healer that you'll heal more in 11-20 than higher key levels, especially heal more in 11-16. However, the healing requirement for 16-20+ is incredibly demanding on certain bosses during Tyrannical. Many healers that might have been fine before with a slow reactivity to healing the burst lifestyle of healing, now fail teams too often. If a DPS makes a mistake, they die, and for many bosses, that's not a big issue outside of cutting it short for time. But if a healer makes mistakes or isn't ready to heal specific mechanics, it's simply a wipe. There is a higher risk to playing healer, and with that comes more responsibility. Too many healers I have met aren't ready to take on that weight and point their fingers at others. Taking on a role of a higher place of responsibility in the group, like tanking or healing and not being capable of holding that position is the most toxic thing I encounter in M+.
I have to agree with him on the lack of knowledge part. There is literally to much free information out there. Written guides, youtube videos, and so on to be ignorant of the game.
Honestly I think its the same for even LFR. LFR is for you to see the content at an extremely toned down difficulty, but you can still die. People make 5 minute guides to bosses, raids, and so on. watch a vid, have just an idea of the content you going into.
If your one of the players that like to figure stuff out on your own. Fine, mad respect for taking that approach. find a guild that likes to do that as well and jam like crazy. Otherwise remember your ignorance is screwing other people over.
Did a 21 Tyran VP and the key carrier didnt know you had to jump on Asaad. Fun times
Oof i feel that very last part Jaky biy its always the healers that have to make up for it like got damn
Am I in the minority? When new content comes out, I ALWAYS look at guides before queueing for anything. I hate going in blind and don't want to embarrass myself by not knowing mechanics
There is toxicity beyond that though. I decided to try my hand at tanking and spent 2 weeks watching videos, practicing in lower keys, and making sure I had mastered my end before stepping into higher keys (16+). My very first run in academy I pulled exactly how I was supposed to and 2 of my dps went ham before I had even grabbed half the room and could make my way back. Naturally everyone died, immediately left, and then sent me nasty messages. It’s very discouraging, and makes the community as a whole less appealing.
Welcome to tanking bro.
I think its the "problem" with there being a sudden big leap in difficulty just going from a 15 to a 16. Most of the M+ dungeon guides are made using 7's and 8's on the PTR before the season starts, and many of the mechanics just don't matter at that keystone level, so sometimes they'll say "boss does an AoE, heal through it" - when in fact you might need to jump, or LoS, or what not.
Often the higher end M+ crowd will have set tactics for doing these bosses, that aren't necessarily covered in any guides - players are just expected to know.
When trying to push past that 16-18 barrier a few seasons ago we were wiping endlessly on a last boss - we were looking at guides, we were looking at the dungeon journal - it was a proper weekly no leaver. Then a friend jumped onto discord, started chatting and explained the tactic they use in 20+ keys, and we killed it first time - I then went and looked at the guide the friend suggested I looked at and said tactic wasn't mentioned anywhere.
Obviously there are a lot of "basic" things that people start failing to that they shouldn't, generic AoEs/frontals/kicks/etc that you can get away with ignoring and leaving it as a healer problem are just people being bad - but when there are specific "known" tactics to overcome certain mechanics etc that aren't included in guides it does get difficult to progress - which is why so many people say that pugging 16-18's is a horrible experience.
I'm a healer. Not great. Just blue/purple. But I do not heal stupid. I don't. I just don't.
Yes this get some bad players angry. But if more healers sucked it up and stopped healing stupid, we would get better DPS and tanks out of the bargain.
that is not a good way to look at it. people make mistakes and you have the power and job to save them from most of them. obiously if some is refusing to run out of voids, that is fair but don't you want dps to try and fix your mistakes too?
17 bh last night , DPS kept wiping while clearing before boss , I over pulled trees once and the healer died got called trash tank and everyone left 😅
wasting time is so relative, playing a game in first place could be considered wasting time, I know its a job for some ;). so not moving on with content doesnt make you win time. dont get me wrong I pay around 18keys atm. the perfect world just doesnt exist. and calling people toxic because they’re not behaving as expected is equal as toxic. thats at least how my mind works 😅 its like when you go on a hike for 30km and invite unknown people. who’s fault is it that you wont reach the goal. i guess the lack of clear communication before hand
My boyfriend did a +19 the other day as healer and the tank was explaining the boss mechanic to the dps like… (yes it didn’t end well)
Not sure asking people to watch hours of videos and read textbook is a good game design. People should learn mythic+ mechanics by doing mythic+. The problem is the scaling. Difficulty from 0-15 stays more of less the same. Obviously more damage but nothing will kill you if you know how to play your class. Then from 16-20 it slowly increase but stays relatively fine. If you know the ins and outs of your class you'll be fine. Then 21-22 there's a big step. And then 23 (highest i tried) there's gigantic step. We tried Nokud 23 and pretty much everything will kill you. Everything is a one shot. Miss an interrupt one shot. Problem is you have to interrupt all the time and you run out of interrupts. You can't prepare yourself for a Nokud 23 by watching a video. You MUST do a Nokud 23. Group composition at this point matters a lot. People saying otherwise are lying. The scaling of difficulty should be more linear. Yes people would do 40-50 keys but who cares. The scaling starting at 21 is just crazy.
If people were even slightly paying attention they could learn the 2 or 3 mechanics per boss and trash pack, but people have 0% awareness. design is not the problem in this case the scaling is 10% per key lvl, making it 5% per lvl will not change anything. As someone who heals on every healer most seasons 0-15 is very much not the same especially when most people below 15s have less gear, hense why they are in lower keys. If you can pay for and play a video game hundreds or thousands of hours a year reading or watching a video every 8 months when a season drops is not a hard ask or even necessary most of the time. It all boils down to people not having awareness.
Players who played starting weeks of DF usually knows the mechanics, but it's not because they read all youtube walkthroughs. They all died and learned through those mechanics in m0~7s.
The issue here is that there are not enough parties in low level keys and it pushes inexperienced players to higher keys.
Valor point restriction should have been lifted sooner.
Yea thats true. Maybe there should be dungeon queues for M+ 2-7s to help players gear up and learn those mechanics?
As seen in S4 of Slands, tons of people farmed low keys for valor. I am not sure how uncaped valor would help this issue [learning mechancis] at all.
16-20 is the dregs of m+. Players are just barely good enough for the content and it shows.
The fact that you need to go out of your way to find information about dungeons is the issue its boring and people want to play what they are playing. As many people have said idealy u should learn abilities in lower keys. But the reality is that on my main when i wasnt bis or ksm it was way harder to get into a 14 or even a 5 then it was getting into a 20. If you dont start m+ first day of a seasson u just wont get invited wont do higher keys and wont succeed
Shadowlands mained mw monk healer..Dragonflight ive been playing veng..i like playing under represented classes for some reason, BEFORE VDH became meta with their 4 set in s2. Going into keys where mechanics can now 1 shot it literally is toxic to not learn mechs. Its one thing to get carried by shear dps numbers, but if you do mechs its fine. Si.ply not knowing when your already on your computer and can look it up, is just sad.. "Sha 2 min guides atleast", every base necessary mechanic right there
I got dragonflight this month. I didn't understand I had to watch a guide outside of the game to do higher keys. I had done every dungeon under a 15 without looking at a guide. But I ruined some guys 17 netharus key, because I wasn't aware of a mechanic because up until that point, we just soak it and I heal through it. Idk. seems like bad game design. mechanics that don't have to be adhered to until some arbitrary point, and the solution is to watch a guide outside of the game. some people havent been playing for 20 years non stop. how was i supposed to know that a 17 could be deadly, when I was doing 15s just fine.
The real toxic part of M+ is the people (jerks in short) who can do >20+ keys with their mains, coming to
Facts. This video is ridiculous
100% healers have to cover up for these mistakes. Being a healer for so long you just get annoyed. I don't care if someone gets one shot, but don't get one shot because you are standing on something that you can clearly move from in time. I get a lot of things are happening, but when nothing is and you still take that dmg, it's just BS. Like in HOV on the mob that cast the lighting trail to you on the ground. I had one guy just stand in it like 2 or 3 times. I finally yelled at him to move or I am going to let you die and we can 4 man this (which we could). He didn't get hit by that or anything else he could avoid the rest of the run. To me I wasn't being toxic, I was just being real. I can't try to keep you healed on something you can easily avoid if other things are going on.
If we just don't have the gear or skill to beat something, then we just don't. I never get upset with that.
“I pay my $15 a month. I shouldn’t have watch a guide out side of the game to play.” - Classic Andy
It's just a game. I'm sorry, if your expectation is that ppl joining a random group for a +16/17 etc knows everything you know, then join up with friends and not random pugs.
Besides, that is no excuse for some of the foul language and abuse I've seen ppl dish out, just because someone made a simple mistake or didn't know a particular mechanic.
I'm sorry to say this, as much as I respect Jak, he is perpetuating this toxic culture himself with the comments he makes here.
Healers take a lot of heat for these mistakes. Especially a week like this with explosives and bursting where we have no extra gobals
@@Maverrick2140 Do you really believe that people deliberately join your keys with the specific intent of ruining it? Of wasting your time and effort?
If I accidentally stepped on someone's sand castle I'd be apologetic and really sorry (embarrassed even). But I wouldn't expect them to start swearing at me and picking a fight. That's not how the real world works generally. But for some reason, in the virtual world, people think that's OK.
This attitude is an entitled one. Entitled in the belief that everyone playing this game should value it in exactly the same way you do. Whilst I'm sure it's important to you and the amount of time you put into it has a lot of meaning to you, you have to realise that the vast population don't share that same belief. So if you pick random unknowns to join your key , you run that risk.
Therefore, if you truly value you time and effort, don't pug with players you've never ever met before and have no knowledge of their commitment to the game.
I'm genuinely not trying to be inflammatory but it's a bit contradictory of you to say that you don't want people disrespecting your time and effort - yet you don't put in sufficient time and effort to meet players that you're comfortable playing with.
Now of course, I'm not levelling this directly at you. For all I know, you only run with a regular group of friends and never pug high keys. But there are lots of people that do exactly this, they only pug high keys with random unknowns yet they have this expectation that every random person is just like them in their commitment and excellence, etc.
Bottom line, if you truly value building sand castles to a super high quality, don't build them on a packed beach with thousands of people and children - all running around trying to have their bit of fun. Chances are, someone's going to inadvertently step on your sand castle. Go to a quiet beach with a few select friends that share your passion for sand castles.
I dunno how engaging in discourse over what I find toxic to be perpetuating toxic culture, thats just....strange. I do think its pretty coarse to diminish my viewpoint because it clashes with your own. I think when you play in a competitive format (higher keystones) that have a harsh pass/fail and rewards and weight to their completion, that not bringing your best (just like with any sports team) can negatively impact other player's experiences just the same as if a good player purposefully played poorly because they were tilted/angry.
this is how you know some people aren't healers, because if you're doing a +16/17, you HAVE to know the mechanics of the entire dungeon, because every mistake is VERY costly and guess who's responsibility it is to save your ass when you make those mistakes? I have to say that if you're in 16s or 17s you should know the dungeon mechanics in and out, because small mistakes kill runs at that level.
Nobody feels mistakes in high keys more than healers. If you wanna time a high key, know the dungeon in and out before joining one. Not doing so is probably going to end up derailing the key.
The tired old "it's just a game bro" argument again. Chain depleting keys because dumbos can't interrupt, not stand in bad or whatever basic stuff is exhausting af. Yes, it's "just a game". I wanna play the game, not watch you waste my time because you can't be bothered. MMOs have been largely knowledge driven games for like the last 20 years, maybe go play Stardew or Minecraft or whatever and don't be the guy who shows up to soccer practice without shoes cuz "it's just a game".
The other 4 are putting in effort, so step up or step down.
The real problem is that the system is designed of M+ has created an incentive structure that makes it very un-fun to play. Much of this comes from M+ being "bolted onto" wow, it really should be its own game with its own ladder system and it's own completely unique set of mechanics.
Guys unless your are trying to get into a MDI team. It’s a game, I get frustrations. But come on, it’s not your job. Instead of getting frustrated with a player. Just kick them out of the group and find someone else. Your wasting your time by playing a game that doesn’t benefit you in any way other than joy. But labelling it toxic seems a bit dramatic. Like I said, quit taking something so seriously when it’s not your job. And especially when all it’s providing is something to fill your time with. Like I said, unless your trying to get into a MDI team. Then stop complaining cause it’s a game. So many ways to find out if the person your running with knows the dungeon or not. Simply ask. But not knowing something isn’t being toxic. Y’all take something that doesn’t affect your life in any way, way too seriously. This kind of attitude towards a game, is toxic
I hear what you're saying and there is certainly toxicity amongst the elite ... But what I think the person in the video and others are referring to is what I refer to as "casual smugness". It's a whole other side of toxicity where players that are more casual feel entitled to join your key, excuse themselves from not knowing mechanics because they have a "real life", and proceeds to ridicule "try-hards" and/or Blizz for enjoying/fostering a a competitive game system. I have seen this first hand in groups and on the forums, and it's pretty toxic.
@@kmdsubs3148 that’s fair and hear where your coming from. Can get a little frustrating when players aren’t on the same level of commitment to the game. And in LFG I can understand the wanting a certain level of respect for peoples time. I know when I’m signing up for groups thats one of my considerations. Wouldn’t want people to think I’m wasting there time cause I’m not as serious about it as them. Nor would I want them to feel bad for playing the the same game as I am
Need an addon that tests whether you know mechanics on the dungeon before you go in with a quick multiple choice.
This can also track and rate you on how you play based off of avoidable damage taken.
This should also track leavers.
This info should be uploaded to a database and sent to everyone with the addon so we can track and mark good/bad players.
Would save a lot of headache.
I have never had a pug from Quel'thalas, Ragnaros or Azralon not brick my key since Shadowlands. Normally I'd point the finger at myself but over and over again it's always these 3 servers that ruin every single key while players from other servers generally are completely fine.
They also love blaming everyone but themselves for mistakes.
Why is it always just these three servers?
Pretty disapointing point of view tbf. Toxic people don't need your approval Jack.
The most toxic players are those who put no effort in the game and then want the same result as those who do.
@@vincenzomusella5363no, that's toxicity because they always want to blame it on you when you fail a key of try to make you feel guilty if you're not making for them in your team whenever they're here.
They not toxic, they just dont know hot to play the game, and want to be get carried most of the time
But... that's also toxic. You're wasting the time and effort of everyone in your group because you couldn't take 5 minutes to watch or read a guide beforehand. I'd rather deal with a rager than someone deliberately wasting my time and key. Not knowing or fully understanding one or two mechanics is one thing, but it's so rude to not have a clue what's going on and expect to be carried and tutored. If you really refuse to use outside resources, then go in a guild or friend group to learn. If you don't have a guild or friend group....well, that attitude is probably why.
But this isnt toxic. Being ignorant is a complete different part of the story. I see a lot of toxic behaviour in M+. My best way to avoid this is to ignore/block them instantly. At that moment I really dont care what they are typing bc in 90% of the attempts where people starting with toxicity in group chat the key is bricked.
being ignorant in a 17 is toxic; It means you willfully ignored 2-16 for all previous runs. people that do that absolutely suck
Based
Facts
Just delusional take. If your game is designed so that I can easily get into keys you "feel" like I should know what I am doing, but dont know what I am doing, then you are simply and OBJECTIVELY wrong. It's poor game design, and poor judgement on your side. Simple as that.
So true
a tank with 3k rio didn't know how to tank NL last boss in a 23 key, what do you have to say to that.
Sounds like exactly the problem in this clip lol
People need to make mistakes and learn from them. If doing an m+15 allows a mistake not to kill you that in m+17 it does, then tough luck, you need to learn from it when you or someone else does it in m+17. That’s a structural issue of m+ content not a toxic behaviour. If you want to be in groups that kill everything clean, then raise your selection bar, make maybe your own group, select the people based on how many times they have completed this before, ask them questions about mechanics or explain mechanics before you go in the group etc. What is toxic is you expecting that everyone already knows everything as well as you do even though they don’t have the same experience as you do or maybe they even want to play the game in a different way than you do (ie, fail, learn, improve, progress instead of watching guides about everything and downloading addons for every single thing). So, if you want to play with like minded people, then invest more of your time in screening those people and finding them rather than assume that everyone is in your own head.
"Mistakes" don't start when you die. If you enjoy taking tons of extra damage because "you play the game different" lots of other content. The toxic part starts when you ruin other peoples keys by being unaware of the obvious damage and subsequent healing you are taking in a 15. If you tunnel vision your way to +15 keys the game will show you that is not a working strategy as the keys get higher. 15 to 17 is not a huge difference so what ever killed in the 17 nearly killed in the 15 and you just didn't have the awareness to notice. that's not a game design problem that's a you problem.
@@technicolorsoultheory3924 then make sure you spend your time to properly set up a group of people that know every mechanic. If you get people in their first 17s they are bound to make those “mistakes” exactly because the game didn’t show them how deadly they were before that. If you get someone with 15s to a 17 and assume that they have spent 8 hours watching masterclass videos of every instance and you get your key depleted then that’s also on you for making that assumption. Not everyone wants to watch others play before they play and not everyone has to just because someone like yourself thinks they MUST.
You don’t want your time wasted? Invest it in properly building a group.
The raiding part specifically is just mind numbingly irritating. People go in - waste everyone's time - and then when people try to tell them what to do and help them - they actively choose not to listen, not use any bit of common sense, still refuse to watch any videos inbetween wipes, and are usually the people who will absolutely blame everyone else or just explode the moment anyone mentions them. This is why people tend to get very angry and very picky choosey with who they want. Both me and my friends are very harsh when raidleading pugs and that's because it works. People do not like it. We do not care. The group we end up with finishes the content and usually much smoother. We don't even care about gear anywhere near as much as someone knowing what they're doing.
The boss does the same thing in roughly the same pattern every time and yet people just turn their brains off and waste everyone else's time. One person wasting everyone else's time is one of the most toxic things you can do. I usually only do M+ with friends because man it is just atrocious a lot of the time in randoms and it funnily enough gets worse / harder the lower you go in M+.
I just do not understand what is so hard about doing literally 2 minutes of research beforehand and then turning on the noggin and at least learning from mistakes. It really isn't hard but I would say the vast _vast_ _overwhelmingly vast_ majority of players are just incapable of the most basic things and it is entirely their own fault. My friend who joined WoW after basically never touching the game got into it and from the get go was doing just fine because he bothered to take a few minutes to figure out what to do. That is literally all it takes. A few minutes for each piece of content you do - one time each.
Running 22s still got no clue what to do half the time 🥹