@@CB38096 Strange, my original comment is missing. But i just got a new phone today maybe that‘s the reason. I said I wish they just revert disc to the cata version without the need to apply atonements. Now that we have the tuning knob of indepedent atonement values.
Would love to see rapture become "instantly apply a power word shield to your entire group at 40% increased effectiveness" and THEN get the bonus no cooldown on PWS for X time So you can use it instantly as opposed to 6 globals pre-emptively.
That would be really fun. Would be interesting making it a 3 min cd or something but atonement heals reduce the cd too since that would be super strong
I was also thinking that they could put luminous barrier on a choice node with rapture, and also make it apply atonement. Would be nice to have one "oh shit" reactive button.
Thoughtful of Blizzard to hold back the huge, game-changing, Disc changes they’ve been working on until next week’s build so you could release your video. Heartwarming stuff.
1000% agreed we play for fun not for stress to look timers . While expansions goes by they overcomplicate the spec to the point we are now . Maybe a rework to make things clear and disc ramps unique again World be nice .
You know what I would love for a discipline priest to adress lack of dispell utility and increase the skill celling to create those feel good moments? I would introduce a talent (maybe even on the class tree for shadow/holy!) that makes targets of PW shield immune to MOST debuffs while the shield is active (MOST = some unavoidable raid mechanics still go through). That would play into disc fantasy of PREEMPTIVE healing, you know a curse/magic debuff is incomming, BOOM you shield the target at the last second and the debuff doesn't happen. It's sort of like a dispell that would be pressed immiedietely after the effect went through. And you cannot have it permenently on tank since the shield will break from taking damage anyway, so you have to TIME your shield if you want to use it as immunity.
My biggest issue with disc is just how healing feels in general with every healer being a raid burst healer. If healing is tuned down so that's our jam again I'll suffer through the bad talent tree for seasons to come
I was REALLY looking forward to rolling Voidweaver Disc in TWW. It was all I could think about I was salivating over the flavor and the on paper spell interactions. But then I was looking into other people testing it and it just fell flat. The flavor and ideas are there, I am very hopeful they will work on tuning for this tree soon. There's other classes who needed a revamp are being worked on, but there is still time for the devs to take a look at the priest class tree. I still really wished that when they moved Mindgames to a PVP talent, they would just make the capstone on the shadow side of the class be Silence. Just Silence as a 45s cooldown and no blanket like other caster kicks. Then in the Shadow tree where Silence was an option, you replace it was a talent to make Silence a 24s cooldown and give it the blanket effect like Counterspell or Wind Shear. Sidenote, I will also NEVER forgive Blizz for removing Shining Force!!!! Such a good knockback!! Bring Shining Force back and add a talent node to make the effect a knock up, like Thunderstorm has!!!! Those two class tree changes would make priest feel so much more complete as a healer, especially in Mythic+. Luckily, Holy Archon is there and also does look cool. I like playing Halo over Divine Star as Holy, so even in dungeons it will be more fun for me than RNG Juggling Oracle. But being a Priest healer main in TWW just makes my group feel like I'm a Make a Wish case. We just need a little something something to feel better. A kick, a better stop than Fear or Holy Incap, just something with more substance.
We need a way of applying atonement passively, like through PoM healing. Holy damage spells should extend the duration of active atonements like the current tier set does. Rapture could act like radiance and apply PW: shield to the 5 nearest damaged allies.
Ofc its in trouble since their rework because we are forced to play a pet build, we can't play TE now if we play voidweaver.. the 4part is horrible, Its shows how blizzard dont understand the gameplay of disc
Honestly, spot-on with describing the issues.. For Disc to be somewhat competitive in M+ it needs better sustained healing, a kick and at least 1 more reliable stop.. It would still be behind other healers that have stronger CC and better dispel profile for S1 but it would at least have something to help out the group.
@@Scribbinge Almost all changes they make is about the 0.01% that plays competitive, I remember they nerfed cause on bursting week the pros were doing massive pulls and using mass dispell like there were no afixx there. When in reality while the 99% rest of players will just whipe cause the priest didn't do it on the right time.
s3 disc priest was a good time to be a disc main, and with that i am sadge about tww changes thus far. i hope some one from blizzard sees this video and does something. ty as always, jak you are a great resource of information about priest healing
I think one of the things that should be baseline for Disc is Sanctuary. I know in BFA smite had an absorb shield for disc and I feel although this wouldnt fix a lot of the problems discussed in the video, it would help a teeny tiny bit and I also miss those days.
Disc Priest Atonment is a tedious mini-game-- remove the mechanic or extend the durations. Spamming Smite for CDR on Penance and Shadowfiend/Mindbender is boring and not creative design. Shadow Covenant was fine being its own spell. Making Shadow Covenant into Shadowfiend/Mindbender makes us feel like a pseudo-pet class, fiend/bender should have kept its identity as a mana button. The holy magic side is terribly undertuned and forgotten, we're forced into the shadow magic "ramp" side of the tree as our only viable option. Power Word: Shield and Divine Aegis shields are laughably weak. PW: Shield feels like a glorified Atonement spreader, using it for blocking damage is negligible. I miss when Disc Priest was more of a sustain healer and shields (not asking for OP shields here) actually felt like they did something. Priest in general has extremely limited utility and CC in comparison to every other class. Why is our most powerful CC a melee range fear (Psychic Scream)? Why is Void Tendrils also melee and so weak it's hardly ever taken, with a long cooldown as well? Shackle Undead is useless now-- this isn't WotLK with undead everywhere. Mass Dispel was made a longer CD unfairly due to dungeon design. Our base dispel only dispels Magic and Diseases. Shining Force was taken from us for "reasons" only to be given to Shaman in the PvE talent "Traveling Storms". Make it make sense. Priest mobility is some of the worst in the game with nothing to show for it except Body and Soul (sensory overload on your PW: Shields with sparkles and a loud sound effect) or Angelic Feathers which are so forgotten about and hard to see we just use them in a macro that places them directly under our feet.
Combine Disc and Holy again for a new healer spec and then for Preist 3 class make another Augement like class so that Drac players can be invited on the other specs in pugging cause currently why invite the other DPS spec or even the healer in a 5 man when Augement is gonna be a requirement and people hate over lapping classes in 5 mans.
so glad I'm rerolling to hpal. just cant take it anymore to hope every season that disc will be good. so I rather just have 1 heal spec that way I dont have to worry about being able to play my favorite out of 2 possible specs.
I really wanted to main disc for tww but I just cant when there are so many better options. Disc feels disabled to me. Atonement doesn't last long enough so it feels like a huge annoying chore. I wish they would just scrap the whole talent trees and come up with something new and awesome. Its kinda old and stale. If not I guess Ill play resto sham or holy pally like everyone else.
Disc is my fav Priest spec and pretty much only healer I play on. I loved the idea of "Healing while doing damage" that it was based on way back when introduced. It's been mostly nerfs to that playstyle with minor buffs/adjustments here and there to keep it somewhat relevant. Let's hope it's not totally dog poo in TWW 🤞🤞
How does full mastery oracle disc perform ignoring mindbender and focusing on left side of tree do? In PvP this has been meta for 3s arena and looks good in PvE too with oracle playstyle
Personally I'm not too worried about it. They really knocked it out of the park with the gameplay changes in s3 so the base of the spec will always be fun to me now. Compared to all of the m+ seasons before disc being a viable option at all is still a novel concept to me lol. A lot of these might be the familiar early expansion woes before we're hitting haste caps etc. Buff uppies ✊
Hot take: revert Disc Priest to MoP Disc. No longer apply atonement, but use smart heals. Reduce targets in a party to 3 allies and raid to 5. Let Radiance heal 5 people in a party and raid while buffing atonement for XX% for a certain amount of time.
I wouldn’t mind if they nerfed the numbers on uppies and reduce its cd to 2 mins, and make the cdr talent into something that allows you to move while in the air. It would be nice to have a proper healing cd as disc
I recently started playing wow again after many years away. Picked up Disc Priest and felt ok until around 60 and I noticed a HUGE issue with it when it came to damage/healing. Switched to Holy Pala and have had a great time with it. Really hope they give Disc some love
I think they're just kind of ok with the 4p being borderline useless cause the 2p is already really good and keeps up with some other spec's sets as a whole. but I agree it's dumb that it does borderline nothing. They reworked the pres one at least and it's just REALLY good now though, so idk. I think some class tree work would help a ton too. Also please un-nerf symbol of hope. I like back to back barkskins.
Considering they just gave rdruids big % healing buffs after the rdruid community has been complaining for weeks, I’m sure they will buff priest too before launch
And what will you reroll into? Rshaman was barely played in all of DF and just now is good. Rdruid was meta for like 3 seasons in DF and now its the worst healer. Hpal was unplayable for 2 seasons and just now is strong and its been receiving nerf after nerf. MW didnt even exist before S3. It's been 3 whole seasons without Prevoker until now... All healer tuning has been like this all DF. Blizz "moods swings" are real.
Disc feels awesome when it works, but honestly, I'm probably just gonna play archon holy priest. Instead of desperately trying to get mindbender off CD so I can actually heal whilst fighting to keep atonements up and juggling pain supps, it just looks really fun to blast out a halo and smash out holy words + flash heals. Plus the damage rotation is super fun now that chastise gives the two free holy fires.
I have always thought that it is ridiculous that the one healer which heals through damage does the least damage of all healers. I would love if they made disc priest high risk/high reward. Reduce the healing but make the damage insane, that would be cool. Having better teammates that don’t take as much damage and are able to avoid mechanics so you can pump as a healer.
i mean at this point why even bother playing a healer or call it a healer ? just go play a dps you wanna be healer lol. as an All time healer, i wish they remove the antonement mechanic all together and revert it to a real true healer, all the heal wasted into antonement is heal who is not into our flash heal renew, pom pos penance..ect
hey Jak , Snowless here I been watching you on and off since Legion times just wanted to say u were always such a great guy always ready to answer questions and really wholesome , WoW def needs more ppl like you , I quit at the end of shadowlands when Disc was kinda starting really drop off especially compared to early disc days so wanted to ask how is Disc doing right now in ur view and is it worth it to come back or its in an ever worse place ?
@@AutomaticJak I get that and I did watch the video and ofc the title says it all but my question was in general sorta like " how is disc right now compared to its old golden days " from the eyes of the disc king , reason I am asking is I am thinking of coming back but I really wanna play disc at a semi reasonable level (world 500 or so ) and just before I quit I really felt I was dragging the team down abit with disc and other specs would be better , maybe you answered that already in the video then its my bad
Should discipline just go the way of Fistweaver or Hpal? Just make certain damage abilities contribute healing split among 5 targets. They've always had a hard time balancing Atonement healing.
Seeing arcane get their current tier set in the tree when it doesnt give em anything but dmg, and disc getting rid off S3/4 set with nothing to show for feelsbad af
My two top specs 😅 no seriously after seeing these changes I just dipped out lol. I was like guess I just suck now. Uninstalled and canceled my sub. I have never done that with wow, ever. But I just felt like utter trash as Disc and it’s my favorite spec. I don’t enjoy the majority of dps I like to heal and rdruid was so tedious I gave it up at like level 20 something 😂. I liked arcane cuz it took a fuckin phd and I liked that in that a DPS. (I know I’m crazy) the most boring spec I ever played was ret pally in raids just spamming the five buttons…disc always required a type of future sight but now my atonement barely last and apotheosis with evangelism or whatever that extended was such a fun raid burst heal that me and pres evokes were wiping the floor on mechanics that should be insta death I went from lfr to running with mythic raiders in dragon flight and now I literally don’t what the fuck to do with myself lol
I feel like disc has always been the preempt damage to be taken with either shields or applying atonement and then healing any damage that does happen from the damage done by your spells It’s not been a reactive healing design like holy is where you heal back the damage taken. You preempt the damage that is going to be taken to reduce it by shields at the like and then actually heal as required after your shield is gone But with the design of the dungeons being so bursty recently it’s been muchhh harder to do that without making the spec realllly strong
Keep on Bliz about supplying disc players with a stun or silence. Disc hasn’t ever had one which is why I ran Belf expansions ago until they nerfed that racial.
So hard. Was shaman heal for many years. always glanced at disc but never put it up. shaman heal is life on easymode. with the new herotalents I hoped that disc will be more viable. but alone being the only one without a kick is veeery sickening... hope that disc will get some tweaks, still gonna play it in tww. I need some changes
I sadly dont think this is just a tuning knob problem, I think the healing priest is in a bit of trouble as a whole. I do look forward to watching you make it look bonkers good. So here is to TWW and new content
I've already known there would be a big issue with Disc, since the design we have atm is not built to last. Tier set doesn't last forever and it's the only thing that carries us right now. Feels bad, going from an unique playing healer through smite spammer reliant on bender uptime dumbed down version, to something absolutely not functioning. I guess we'll have a season or two of being unplayable, like at the start of DF, then they will do something about it, maybe.
Loved it when you complained about the Disc raid output and at the same time you blasted twice the HPS of the other healers in the video :D not trying to pick on you, just thought it was funny.
they need to remove CDR on any healing CD. It will always have the issue of “I have to do X before this timing” which is terrible Just need to remove void summoner and the mindbender AOE talents. It has no place in a healing spec
I could at least somewhat forgive the wonky number tuning if disc had any utility. There’s just no excuse for power infusion being literally the only reason to ever see a priest over another class.
I rly wish we would have insta radiances, I rly hate single apply atonement to each party member all the time and in M+ pug you cannot relay on people not taking dmg and take the risk to not have atonement on them. At least we can play holy and right now seems like better option in M+ pugs
I might be alone on this, but I really miss the complexity of disc pre-10.2, it felt much more rewarding to play than it does now. I think Mind Blast should be its own thing again, with Shadow Covenant and Schism combined just to give a little more control and complexity back to the spec. Smite spam is so boring :/ Edit: And old Harsh Discipline!
The problem with disc is other ability's. So if you get an affix or a situation requiring a dispell etc. You have to do damage to heal them after a radiance. Where as other heals can re focus on healing/dispels-affixs abilitys. Disc has damage/healing/dispels-affix. When other healing classes can stop damage and focus on healing Disc priest can not. The two radiance are really powerful but if you can't maintain health bars with minimal damage you do then you have to hit a second radiance while the other radiance atonements aren't even half way done.
I'll be real... I hate modern disc priest. It should be the king of mitigation not some weird blasty ramper. It's insanely hard to balance with the current overall design. The spec ends up being unbelievably insane or absolute dogwater and basically never lands between. Just make them shieldkings and enough with this other weird garbage.
I prefer luminous barrier over the other, I just don't have to point n click n hope people decide to stack in to it, just click it and forget it. I enjoy passive things more than I enjoy active things and having to set up a lot of stuff. Some setup is fine, I play mainly a Restoration Druid so I'm used to ramping, but it just gets super annoying with things like power word: barrier because I gotta hope people aren't gonna be lazy sleezebags and will go hop in to the barrier. In pugs that's almost not gonna happen. PW:B also doesn't count for anything on meters so using my big CD just doesn't do anything for me and in pugs, again, nobody cares to look, they just go based off of HPS numbers and boot me if they see me doing low HPS even with a very good barrier placement, etc. I will still be booted for not doing high HPS numbers because people never understand that healers are 100% the opposite of DPS. I don't necessarily find it fun DPS healing, imo I would prefer disco going back to being bubble boy and using a few heals here and there, but as a Resto Druid main that's insanely annoying to be competing with that on the meters and in the raid because even though we are all working together, the truth is we are all actually competing against each other, too, especially when it comes to pugs. That being said, though, I loved taking Contrition as a talent, but holy lord is it so weak. If they buffed it to be 200% of your spellpower instead of 9%, then that would be entirely fine. Each point would give you an additional 100% SP coefficient when healing people, and I believe it actually should double dip with Mastery and everything else, Atonement too. Like, how cool would it be to have something that makes Mastery for Disc actually very valuable as opposed to ehhh. Disc has a very good Mastery but because Mastery doesn't do anything for damage, it isn't cared for. Maybe if they redid some talents, like taking the "Ultimate Radiance" talent from the PvP section and putting it in place of TE.
Seems like the kinda spec that is “literally playable” on launch sucks for the entire first season (maybe even second season too, depending on how good Holy is) and then they get a mid patch rework in 10.2.5 and the class is really good. I think patience is a virtue and you all should come join me and have a nice sit and drink some tea as we proselytize MW monk as the best healer. ;P
A bit of a necro comment and definitely unpopular take, but I feel like most of the "issues" that people are complaining about with different classes/specs/builds conflict with the characters' core design. Disc Priests are proactive healers with a big build-up before they burst, so of course they're bad at reacting to unexpected situations. Same with Totem Shaman (reactive) vs Farseer (reactive), or those complaining that Preservation Evokers don't have max range when their core class design is a high mobility midrange character. With new content around the corner, proactive healers are naturally going to have a more difficult time vs reactive. It'd be cool to have a panic button or two to bail you out, but you can't seriously expect a proactive healer to have good reactive healing
I'm getting REALLY annoyed that class redesigns are not getting enough alpha/beta iterations to improve EVERY spec. This concepts of 3-6 specs getting almost nothing improved, and are expected to wait to the 0.5 or x0.1 patch to get improvements is not OK anymore.
I thjnk it siuld be cool if atomements stacked.. so if u put a pws on someone thenthen renew it should inscrwase by the actual amount and not jjstvtefresh it to 10 seconds or w.e it is
Nerf Abyssal Reverie and Scov, buff baseline spells. Too much power is concentrated into pet uptimes and constricts everything else- talent choices, the power of non-shadow talents, flexibility in just moment-to-moment spell usage, everything.
at least holy has chastise to help with CC more often/more reliably but god the things I would do for an actual kick and MORE MOVEMENT, feather is not enough these days, we are SO SLOW. But yeah disc feels terrible lmao, bad output, bad dps, lacks utility. I mean holy lacks utility too and we don't even get like pain sup or barrier (I'm so mad about it lmao give me an external PLEASE) but disc just feels bad to play in high keys. It feels like you're fighting the class to make it do what you need it to do
Every class and spec doesn’t need to be able to do everything. Disc Priest and the swap to atonement will be looked at in the future as the catalyst for the death of healing.
Atonement was added in cataclysm, that was 14 years ago. I don't think you can call that a catalyst for something that hasn't even happened and probably wont happen.
@@baseboned Can absolutely call that a catalyst. How many specs did damage that was translated to healing pre- Cata? Zero. How many do that now? All of them. And what’s the by far worst role right now?? You got it, healing. And it’s not close. Before people say stuff like - “Doing damage as a healer is a part of the game” - This reason alone is why there is a catastrophic shortage of healers in both PvE and PvP. “Just healing in boring”- So don’t heal? When healers just healed, there were plenty. An abundance actually.
"Every class and spec doesn’t need to be able to do everything." This would be a decent point if it weren't for the fact that this is WoW and not FF14. Unless you let WoW consume your entire life, you can't just swap to another spec and have it be on par with the thing that you actually wanted to play, before you sadly realized that it's probably gonna stay shit and without utility for an entire season or longer.
Disc would be way more popular if atonement lasted longer. The gameplay can be overly stressful trying to manage atonement before the right mechanics
100%
My comment was deleted lol?
? Didn't delete anything
@@CB38096 Strange, my original comment is missing. But i just got a new phone today maybe that‘s the reason. I said I wish they just revert disc to the cata version without the need to apply atonements. Now that we have the tuning knob of indepedent atonement values.
I said this on the forums and got contrarians telling me I was wrong. Thank you for the validation. Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Would love to see rapture become "instantly apply a power word shield to your entire group at 40% increased effectiveness" and THEN get the bonus no cooldown on PWS for X time
So you can use it instantly as opposed to 6 globals pre-emptively.
That would be really fun. Would be interesting making it a 3 min cd or something but atonement heals reduce the cd too since that would be super strong
I was also thinking that they could put luminous barrier on a choice node with rapture, and also make it apply atonement. Would be nice to have one "oh shit" reactive button.
Because we can't have any other healers sneak any healing in.
Your thumbnail game is actually S Tier.
Thank you! My editor owns
Yeah this one tops them, insanely good
Yeah I literally clicked for the thumbnail hahah
@@AutomaticJak Editor is the prime. haha
I also clicked on this video because of the insane thumbnail.
Oh it feels so good to have so many problems with our specs and trees and get no changes every beta build.
The Thumbnail of this video deserves its own video of just staring at the thumbnail and commenting on it.
Thoughtful of Blizzard to hold back the huge, game-changing, Disc changes they’ve been working on until next week’s build so you could release your video. Heartwarming stuff.
They really are the real mvps
@@AutomaticJak They really are. Video on point as always - thanks for all the effort!
disc is still plagued with too many gcds that do nothing. atonement application simply isnt fun.
I do wish that renew and shield actually did something noticeable except for just the atonement application.
Attonement should go back to being a passive or upgrade the duration of it :/
@@bigbigu8671 ^this!!!
1000% agreed we play for fun not for stress to look timers .
While expansions goes by they overcomplicate the spec to the point we are now .
Maybe a rework to make things clear and disc ramps unique again World be nice .
You know what I would love for a discipline priest to adress lack of dispell utility and increase the skill celling to create those feel good moments? I would introduce a talent (maybe even on the class tree for shadow/holy!) that makes targets of PW shield immune to MOST debuffs while the shield is active (MOST = some unavoidable raid mechanics still go through). That would play into disc fantasy of PREEMPTIVE healing, you know a curse/magic debuff is incomming, BOOM you shield the target at the last second and the debuff doesn't happen. It's sort of like a dispell that would be pressed immiedietely after the effect went through. And you cannot have it permenently on tank since the shield will break from taking damage anyway, so you have to TIME your shield if you want to use it as immunity.
i so WISHHHHHH priest had a kick, one of the biggest complaints I had in s2/s3 when i was playing alot of disc
My biggest issue with disc is just how healing feels in general with every healer being a raid burst healer. If healing is tuned down so that's our jam again I'll suffer through the bad talent tree for seasons to come
Yeah it very much feels like our niche has been eroded and now we do the same thing as others but way way harder
I was REALLY looking forward to rolling Voidweaver Disc in TWW. It was all I could think about I was salivating over the flavor and the on paper spell interactions. But then I was looking into other people testing it and it just fell flat.
The flavor and ideas are there, I am very hopeful they will work on tuning for this tree soon. There's other classes who needed a revamp are being worked on, but there is still time for the devs to take a look at the priest class tree.
I still really wished that when they moved Mindgames to a PVP talent, they would just make the capstone on the shadow side of the class be Silence. Just Silence as a 45s cooldown and no blanket like other caster kicks. Then in the Shadow tree where Silence was an option, you replace it was a talent to make Silence a 24s cooldown and give it the blanket effect like Counterspell or Wind Shear. Sidenote, I will also NEVER forgive Blizz for removing Shining Force!!!! Such a good knockback!! Bring Shining Force back and add a talent node to make the effect a knock up, like Thunderstorm has!!!! Those two class tree changes would make priest feel so much more complete as a healer, especially in Mythic+.
Luckily, Holy Archon is there and also does look cool. I like playing Halo over Divine Star as Holy, so even in dungeons it will be more fun for me than RNG Juggling Oracle. But being a Priest healer main in TWW just makes my group feel like I'm a Make a Wish case. We just need a little something something to feel better. A kick, a better stop than Fear or Holy Incap, just something with more substance.
We need a way of applying atonement passively, like through PoM healing. Holy damage spells should extend the duration of active atonements like the current tier set does. Rapture could act like radiance and apply PW: shield to the 5 nearest damaged allies.
Ofc its in trouble since their rework because we are forced to play a pet build, we can't play TE now if we play voidweaver.. the 4part is horrible, Its shows how blizzard dont understand the gameplay of disc
Coming back to priest after a long time away… what the heck is uppies?!?
Ultimate penitence lol
Honestly, spot-on with describing the issues.. For Disc to be somewhat competitive in M+ it needs better sustained healing, a kick and at least 1 more reliable stop.. It would still be behind other healers that have stronger CC and better dispel profile for S1 but it would at least have something to help out the group.
ye ill go to pres evoker. The tierset change is so nice
Priests need Shining Force back. They need that interrupt/knockback.
And the CD nerf on mass dispel should be reverted, IDK why they felt the need to nerf priest utility so bad
@@Scribbinge Almost all changes they make is about the 0.01% that plays competitive, I remember they nerfed cause on bursting week the pros were doing massive pulls and using mass dispell like there were no afixx there. When in reality while the 99% rest of players will just whipe cause the priest didn't do it on the right time.
s3 disc priest was a good time to be a disc main, and with that i am sadge about tww changes thus far. i hope some one from blizzard sees this video and does something. ty as always, jak you are a great resource of information about priest healing
Yeah I was moving towards restoring shaman lol totemic looks fun
I think one of the things that should be baseline for Disc is Sanctuary. I know in BFA smite had an absorb shield for disc and I feel although this wouldnt fix a lot of the problems discussed in the video, it would help a teeny tiny bit and I also miss those days.
Disc Priest Atonment is a tedious mini-game-- remove the mechanic or extend the durations. Spamming Smite for CDR on Penance and Shadowfiend/Mindbender is boring and not creative design. Shadow Covenant was fine being its own spell. Making Shadow Covenant into Shadowfiend/Mindbender makes us feel like a pseudo-pet class, fiend/bender should have kept its identity as a mana button. The holy magic side is terribly undertuned and forgotten, we're forced into the shadow magic "ramp" side of the tree as our only viable option. Power Word: Shield and Divine Aegis shields are laughably weak. PW: Shield feels like a glorified Atonement spreader, using it for blocking damage is negligible. I miss when Disc Priest was more of a sustain healer and shields (not asking for OP shields here) actually felt like they did something.
Priest in general has extremely limited utility and CC in comparison to every other class. Why is our most powerful CC a melee range fear (Psychic Scream)? Why is Void Tendrils also melee and so weak it's hardly ever taken, with a long cooldown as well? Shackle Undead is useless now-- this isn't WotLK with undead everywhere. Mass Dispel was made a longer CD unfairly due to dungeon design. Our base dispel only dispels Magic and Diseases. Shining Force was taken from us for "reasons" only to be given to Shaman in the PvE talent "Traveling Storms". Make it make sense. Priest mobility is some of the worst in the game with nothing to show for it except Body and Soul (sensory overload on your PW: Shields with sparkles and a loud sound effect) or Angelic Feathers which are so forgotten about and hard to see we just use them in a macro that places them directly under our feet.
Combine Disc and Holy again for a new healer spec and then for Preist 3 class make another Augement like class so that Drac players can be invited on the other specs in pugging cause currently why invite the other DPS spec or even the healer in a 5 man when Augement is gonna be a requirement and people hate over lapping classes in 5 mans.
Thanks for the perspective, would love one on holy as well.
so glad I'm rerolling to hpal. just cant take it anymore to hope every season that disc will be good. so I rather just have 1 heal spec that way I dont have to worry about being able to play my favorite out of 2 possible specs.
I really wanted to main disc for tww but I just cant when there are so many better options. Disc feels disabled to me. Atonement doesn't last long enough so it feels like a huge annoying chore. I wish they would just scrap the whole talent trees and come up with something new and awesome. Its kinda old and stale. If not I guess Ill play resto sham or holy pally like everyone else.
Did they give disc an interrupt yet? Still unplayable without
I'm gonna say it, I miss BFA disc
Disc is my fav Priest spec and pretty much only healer I play on. I loved the idea of "Healing while doing damage" that it was based on way back when introduced. It's been mostly nerfs to that playstyle with minor buffs/adjustments here and there to keep it somewhat relevant. Let's hope it's not totally dog poo in TWW 🤞🤞
@@lovelywaz Safe to assume it's gonna be dog poo
Yeah I was a disc priest main I'm going night elf druid this time around, they had disc so perfect they didn't have to change them this drastically
How does full mastery oracle disc perform ignoring mindbender and focusing on left side of tree do? In PvP this has been meta for 3s arena and looks good in PvE too with oracle playstyle
Personally I'm not too worried about it. They really knocked it out of the park with the gameplay changes in s3 so the base of the spec will always be fun to me now. Compared to all of the m+ seasons before disc being a viable option at all is still a novel concept to me lol. A lot of these might be the familiar early expansion woes before we're hitting haste caps etc.
Buff uppies ✊
Hot take: revert Disc Priest to MoP Disc. No longer apply atonement, but use smart heals. Reduce targets in a party to 3 allies and raid to 5. Let Radiance heal 5 people in a party and raid while buffing atonement for XX% for a certain amount of time.
10/10 thumbnail
I wouldn’t mind if they nerfed the numbers on uppies and reduce its cd to 2 mins, and make the cdr talent into something that allows you to move while in the air. It would be nice to have a proper healing cd as disc
@@jeremyguzman7936 and make it instant
I recently started playing wow again after many years away. Picked up Disc Priest and felt ok until around 60 and I noticed a HUGE issue with it when it came to damage/healing. Switched to Holy Pala and have had a great time with it. Really hope they give Disc some love
I think a big buff to flash heal whould help a lot with spot healing
I think they're just kind of ok with the 4p being borderline useless cause the 2p is already really good and keeps up with some other spec's sets as a whole.
but I agree it's dumb that it does borderline nothing. They reworked the pres one at least and it's just REALLY good now though, so idk.
I think some class tree work would help a ton too. Also please un-nerf symbol of hope. I like back to back barkskins.
Guess it’s Discs turn to be the new Holy Paladin cause we all know they need months-year to fix a spec that is clearly in a bad state..
Doubt it. Disc has been in the meta for literally fifteen years.
@@karlzone2 Im talking m+ forgot to make that clear
What is the mini halo yellow circle coming out of all healers (not just priests) in all the beta footage?
weapon enchant
I got to be honest. After blizzard’s up and down “mood swings” for priest tuning I’m rolling another class in TWW.
As if constantly squirreling around with Priest hasn't been their policy for... ever?
@@Spyger9 I came back in legion where healing was perfect. It’s just been downhill since then minus some moments of BFA.
Considering they just gave rdruids big % healing buffs after the rdruid community has been complaining for weeks, I’m sure they will buff priest too before launch
@@arcadialive4265tbh… disc has been good in DF too
And what will you reroll into?
Rshaman was barely played in all of DF and just now is good. Rdruid was meta for like 3 seasons in DF and now its the worst healer.
Hpal was unplayable for 2 seasons and just now is strong and its been receiving nerf after nerf. MW didnt even exist before S3. It's been 3 whole seasons without Prevoker until now...
All healer tuning has been like this all DF. Blizz "moods swings" are real.
Got excited because of visuals but after testing it a bit decided to go MW - seems way more fun and more useful to the group.
Thanks for the upload and thumbnail is epic as always XD
Disc feels awesome when it works, but honestly, I'm probably just gonna play archon holy priest. Instead of desperately trying to get mindbender off CD so I can actually heal whilst fighting to keep atonements up and juggling pain supps, it just looks really fun to blast out a halo and smash out holy words + flash heals. Plus the damage rotation is super fun now that chastise gives the two free holy fires.
Nice video Jak. Disc sounds like it needs a medic!
I have always thought that it is ridiculous that the one healer which heals through damage does the least damage of all healers. I would love if they made disc priest high risk/high reward. Reduce the healing but make the damage insane, that would be cool. Having better teammates that don’t take as much damage and are able to avoid mechanics so you can pump as a healer.
i mean at this point why even bother playing a healer or call it a healer ? just go play a dps you wanna be healer lol. as an All time healer, i wish they remove the antonement mechanic all together and revert it to a real true healer, all the heal wasted into antonement is heal who is not into our flash heal renew, pom pos penance..ect
Well, looks like it's gonna be Resto Shaman season!
hey Jak , Snowless here I been watching you on and off since Legion times just wanted to say u were always such a great guy always ready to answer questions and really wholesome , WoW def needs more ppl like you , I quit at the end of shadowlands when Disc was kinda starting really drop off especially compared to early disc days so wanted to ask how is Disc doing right now in ur view and is it worth it to come back or its in an ever worse place ?
Hey thanks so much. I talk about the state of disc in the video here. Was there smth specific I missed?
@@AutomaticJak I get that and I did watch the video and ofc the title says it all but my question was in general sorta like " how is disc right now compared to its old golden days " from the eyes of the disc king , reason I am asking is I am thinking of coming back but I really wanna play disc at a semi reasonable level (world 500 or so ) and just before I quit I really felt I was dragging the team down abit with disc and other specs would be better , maybe you answered that already in the video then its my bad
I think it’ll do really well in raids but be tough to operate. I’m pretty doomer about it in keys tho
Should discipline just go the way of Fistweaver or Hpal? Just make certain damage abilities contribute healing split among 5 targets. They've always had a hard time balancing Atonement healing.
they should rework the whole tree in oracle and make it a spirit shell/Absorption shield type of healing!
Seeing arcane get their current tier set in the tree when it doesnt give em anything but dmg, and disc getting rid off S3/4 set with nothing to show for feelsbad af
100%
My two top specs 😅 no seriously after seeing these changes I just dipped out lol. I was like guess I just suck now. Uninstalled and canceled my sub. I have never done that with wow, ever. But I just felt like utter trash as Disc and it’s my favorite spec. I don’t enjoy the majority of dps I like to heal and rdruid was so tedious I gave it up at like level 20 something 😂. I liked arcane cuz it took a fuckin phd and I liked that in that a DPS. (I know I’m crazy) the most boring spec I ever played was ret pally in raids just spamming the five buttons…disc always required a type of future sight but now my atonement barely last and apotheosis with evangelism or whatever that extended was such a fun raid burst heal that me and pres evokes were wiping the floor on mechanics that should be insta death I went from lfr to running with mythic raiders in dragon flight and now I literally don’t what the fuck to do with myself lol
is it in trouble because it's long awkward neck makes it prone to injury?
Wouldn't spec:ing into more mastery solve the healing problem for Disc?
I feel like disc has always been the preempt damage to be taken with either shields or applying atonement and then healing any damage that does happen from the damage done by your spells
It’s not been a reactive healing design like holy is where you heal back the damage taken. You preempt the damage that is going to be taken to reduce it by shields at the like and then actually heal as required after your shield is gone
But with the design of the dungeons being so bursty recently it’s been muchhh harder to do that without making the spec realllly strong
i wanna see a dev of disc playng a shuffle match
Paladin, unless/until neefed, seem to be the new dps healer. Disc lost its identity expansions ago.
We're just... there.
Disc priests should be the best damage mitigator in the game. THAT should be their identity.
Keep on Bliz about supplying disc players with a stun or silence. Disc hasn’t ever had one which is why I ran Belf expansions ago until they nerfed that racial.
So hard. Was shaman heal for many years. always glanced at disc but never put it up. shaman heal is life on easymode. with the new herotalents I hoped that disc will be more viable. but alone being the only one without a kick is veeery sickening... hope that disc will get some tweaks, still gonna play it in tww. I need some changes
9:25 the Klingons are actually from Star Trek
Now when Blizz fixes it you can claim credit!
Ez dub
I sadly dont think this is just a tuning knob problem, I think the healing priest is in a bit of trouble as a whole. I do look forward to watching you make it look bonkers good. So here is to TWW and new content
Jak Preacher
I've already known there would be a big issue with Disc, since the design we have atm is not built to last. Tier set doesn't last forever and it's the only thing that carries us right now. Feels bad, going from an unique playing healer through smite spammer reliant on bender uptime dumbed down version, to something absolutely not functioning. I guess we'll have a season or two of being unplayable, like at the start of DF, then they will do something about it, maybe.
Loved it when you complained about the Disc raid output and at the same time you blasted twice the HPS of the other healers in the video :D not trying to pick on you, just thought it was funny.
Where did that happen? I saw him topping meters in one clip but not doubling.
@@weltonwilliams2286 2:45
they need to remove CDR on any healing CD. It will always have the issue of “I have to do X before this timing” which is terrible
Just need to remove void summoner and the mindbender AOE talents. It has no place in a healing spec
Thumbnail going craaaaaaaaaazy
Don't forget h priest had the highest 2 point nodes
what does priest bring to the table? a stamina buff. =D
rip disc, gonna reroll to rdruid
I could at least somewhat forgive the wonky number tuning if disc had any utility. There’s just no excuse for power infusion being literally the only reason to ever see a priest over another class.
Remove atonement. All shielding and passive healing again
I rly wish we would have insta radiances, I rly hate single apply atonement to each party member all the time and in M+ pug you cannot relay on people not taking dmg and take the risk to not have atonement on them. At least we can play holy and right now seems like better option in M+ pugs
I might be alone on this, but I really miss the complexity of disc pre-10.2, it felt much more rewarding to play than it does now. I think Mind Blast should be its own thing again, with Shadow Covenant and Schism combined just to give a little more control and complexity back to the spec. Smite spam is so boring :/
Edit: And old Harsh Discipline!
I feel bad for Jak and his main.
I've been an rsham/ele sham main since WotLK so I'm familiar with the downs and downs of your mains place in the meta
The problem with disc is other ability's. So if you get an affix or a situation requiring a dispell etc. You have to do damage to heal them after a radiance. Where as other heals can re focus on healing/dispels-affixs abilitys. Disc has damage/healing/dispels-affix. When other healing classes can stop damage and focus on healing Disc priest can not. The two radiance are really powerful but if you can't maintain health bars with minimal damage you do then you have to hit a second radiance while the other radiance atonements aren't even half way done.
Yea same for warlocks: class tree shit, no access to utility, a lot of pvp talents, etc.
I'll be real... I hate modern disc priest. It should be the king of mitigation not some weird blasty ramper. It's insanely hard to balance with the current overall design. The spec ends up being unbelievably insane or absolute dogwater and basically never lands between.
Just make them shieldkings and enough with this other weird garbage.
bring back the old disc about shield renew and flash heal / pom and ofc good old penance. No dps heal bullshit.
I prefer luminous barrier over the other, I just don't have to point n click n hope people decide to stack in to it, just click it and forget it. I enjoy passive things more than I enjoy active things and having to set up a lot of stuff. Some setup is fine, I play mainly a Restoration Druid so I'm used to ramping, but it just gets super annoying with things like power word: barrier because I gotta hope people aren't gonna be lazy sleezebags and will go hop in to the barrier. In pugs that's almost not gonna happen. PW:B also doesn't count for anything on meters so using my big CD just doesn't do anything for me and in pugs, again, nobody cares to look, they just go based off of HPS numbers and boot me if they see me doing low HPS even with a very good barrier placement, etc. I will still be booted for not doing high HPS numbers because people never understand that healers are 100% the opposite of DPS.
I don't necessarily find it fun DPS healing, imo I would prefer disco going back to being bubble boy and using a few heals here and there, but as a Resto Druid main that's insanely annoying to be competing with that on the meters and in the raid because even though we are all working together, the truth is we are all actually competing against each other, too, especially when it comes to pugs.
That being said, though, I loved taking Contrition as a talent, but holy lord is it so weak. If they buffed it to be 200% of your spellpower instead of 9%, then that would be entirely fine. Each point would give you an additional 100% SP coefficient when healing people, and I believe it actually should double dip with Mastery and everything else, Atonement too. Like, how cool would it be to have something that makes Mastery for Disc actually very valuable as opposed to ehhh. Disc has a very good Mastery but because Mastery doesn't do anything for damage, it isn't cared for.
Maybe if they redid some talents, like taking the "Ultimate Radiance" talent from the PvP section and putting it in place of TE.
In disc we trust
Seems like the kinda spec that is “literally playable” on launch sucks for the entire first season (maybe even second season too, depending on how good Holy is) and then they get a mid patch rework in 10.2.5 and the class is really good.
I think patience is a virtue and you all should come join me and have a nice sit and drink some tea as we proselytize MW monk as the best healer. ;P
A bit of a necro comment and definitely unpopular take, but I feel like most of the "issues" that people are complaining about with different classes/specs/builds conflict with the characters' core design. Disc Priests are proactive healers with a big build-up before they burst, so of course they're bad at reacting to unexpected situations. Same with Totem Shaman (reactive) vs Farseer (reactive), or those complaining that Preservation Evokers don't have max range when their core class design is a high mobility midrange character.
With new content around the corner, proactive healers are naturally going to have a more difficult time vs reactive. It'd be cool to have a panic button or two to bail you out, but you can't seriously expect a proactive healer to have good reactive healing
Lots of specs are in trouble. Unless you’re a mage or lock Blizzard couldn’t care less
All healers are in trouble.
Game has gone down hill rapidly
Why do you have 4k available when your game footage isnt even 4k?
Still makes the video quality better when rendering
I'm getting REALLY annoyed that class redesigns are not getting enough alpha/beta iterations to improve EVERY spec. This concepts of 3-6 specs getting almost nothing improved, and are expected to wait to the 0.5 or x0.1 patch to get improvements is not OK anymore.
It’s disappointing that the first big exciting new spell they added to disc in years (uppies) feels like such dogshit to use 😔
when did they listen.
sigh.... I was really hoping to be able to try Disc instead of constantly maining holy... this makes me sad
Disc being weak at the beginning of an expansion due to being so stat and borrowed power reliant? Shocker.
🤡
you're right. years like this and they don't change. They know it...nerf, nerf, nerf...pfff...a disaster
Disc is the only healing spec I really enjoy. Until it's fixed I'll play shadow.
Ambient/background music is cranked a tad high.
I thjnk it siuld be cool if atomements stacked.. so if u put a pws on someone thenthen renew it should inscrwase by the actual amount and not jjstvtefresh it to 10 seconds or w.e it is
So, yeah, all 3 priest speccs atm, sucks ass. Perfect main I have
Clearly Blizzard is just telling Priests to use Mind Control as a stop. 🙃
'we'll fix it halfway through season one' -The Devs
Jak, your neck isn't THAT long.
Nerf Abyssal Reverie and Scov, buff baseline spells. Too much power is concentrated into pet uptimes and constricts everything else- talent choices, the power of non-shadow talents, flexibility in just moment-to-moment spell usage, everything.
at least holy has chastise to help with CC more often/more reliably but god the things I would do for an actual kick and MORE MOVEMENT, feather is not enough these days, we are SO SLOW. But yeah disc feels terrible lmao, bad output, bad dps, lacks utility. I mean holy lacks utility too and we don't even get like pain sup or barrier (I'm so mad about it lmao give me an external PLEASE) but disc just feels bad to play in high keys. It feels like you're fighting the class to make it do what you need it to do
Every class and spec doesn’t need to be able to do everything.
Disc Priest and the swap to atonement will be looked at in the future as the catalyst for the death of healing.
Atonement was added in cataclysm, that was 14 years ago. I don't think you can call that a catalyst for something that hasn't even happened and probably wont happen.
@@baseboned Can absolutely call that a catalyst. How many specs did damage that was translated to healing pre- Cata? Zero. How many do that now? All of them. And what’s the by far worst role right now?? You got it, healing. And it’s not close.
Before people say stuff like -
“Doing damage as a healer is a part of the game” - This reason alone is why there is a catastrophic shortage of healers in both PvE and PvP.
“Just healing in boring”- So don’t heal? When healers just healed, there were plenty. An abundance actually.
"Every class and spec doesn’t need to be able to do everything."
This would be a decent point if it weren't for the fact that this is WoW and not FF14.
Unless you let WoW consume your entire life, you can't just swap to another spec and have it be on par with the thing that you actually wanted to play, before you sadly realized that it's probably gonna stay shit and without utility for an entire season or longer.
@@baseboned You also must be new to WoW. There has been for the last 3 expansions, huge issues with healing.
@@user-xo2iw6lz2n Leveling take literally no time.
So if YOU want your class to be able to do anything and everything… go play FF.