I received some comments and emails about this video so let me address a few things: The point of my channel is to share my love of aviation and help others along the way. While this video can come across as hard to watch or embarrassing for the pilot, the goal of this video is to be a teaching moment. There's much that can be taken away from what occurred and I encourage pilots to discuss what went wrong and how situations like this can be avoided. End of the day, I desire to see every pilot strive to be safe and confident. I believe the bar of what is acceptable in aviation has been drastically lowered in the past few years (in part probably due to the pilot shortage and pumping out of new pilots), so in my opinion it is important to recognize situations like this so that they can be prevented in the future. I understand it's easy to point fingers or shame specific organizations, but ultimately I want videos like this to be a teaching tool for ALL pilots no matter where they come from. Clayton
Clayton, thanks so much for posting these incidents. Believe me, and I think I can speak for most all of us, the lesson hit home. I'm just a virtual pilot (as well as former student pilot who ran out of money), and I practice like hell on Pilot2ATC, when not flying on Vatsim. Personally, I strive to be as professional as possible and watch these videos to understand what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. It seemed pretty obvious that the pilot in the video was not prepared with even a basic pen and paper. There's also no shame in asking ATC to "Please say again slower....". Throw in Student Pilot if appropriate. I've had to do that on Vatsim in my early days of learning. After all, were all student pilots, always learning.
The pilot in question is a Civil Air Patrol pilot and due to the events in this recording, his privileges as a CAP pilot have been suspended. Shame, too, since he had a rash of qualifications to be in that elite group of CAP members. The vast majority of CAP pilots are thorough, competent and professional at all times when operating CAP aircraft. This is a rare incident, to say the least.
@@kaptajnsejersen6303 That is very possible. I do know that many CAP pilots are aging out, or nearing that point and all are getting closer to being there every year. They definitely need some younger blood to add to and learn from the experienced pilots that they already have, some of which may not be flying for too many more years.
Well that was agonizing. The controller deserves a medal for his patience. This pilot sounds to me like he's accustomed to operating out of pilot-controlled fields and isn't as familiar with comms at a tower controlled airport. Let this be a sign that you need a refresher, my dude.
Even if you depart from an uncontrolled field, once you start talking to a controller you need to use your callsign. I guess he doesn't use the radio much at all...
In my commercial career, 2 times that I felt at high risk or was in an unnecessary situation involved a CAP pilot. The 1st time I was pilot monitoring with the pilot flying a CAP Major (I knew this because he constantly let me know). He over shot centerline on the base to final turn and almost killed us as he yanked back the yoke and leveled off putting us in the onset of an accelerated stall until I immediately took control and jammed the yoke forward. After landing, he asked me what the buffet was before I took control. I told him that was a signal that he almost got us killed. The 2nd time was with a CAP pilot walking all over my landing clearance. The tower called our call sign and the CAP pilot that landed before us jumped in and started telling the tower an unnecessary long story of where they wanted to taxi after they had cleared the runway. I was just about to go around when the story finally ended and tower gave us landing clearance and after our landing we heard ground give the CAP pilot an earful.
In my experience with CAP pilots they have a tremendous ego …like the “major” in all actuality that means nothing…..and it certainly doesn’t mean he’s anyone with authority…..that only represents the level of senior member classes he has completed…….they “CAP” should do away with the military style structure…..it’s a breeding ground for inflated,holier than thou mindset
I fly with CAP, and this gentleman is way below the standard for my state. My -182 check ride was as comprehensive as any I've had in my 40 year + flying experience.
I'm thinking of constructive criticism for this pilot if he ever watches and reads the comments. I would probably say use the CRAFT acronym is likely the best. Clearance (where you are cleared to), route the route to get there, altitude you been assigned, frequency to contact and the transponder frequency. If you read back in that order I think that would make the controller happy also. If you are flying non-standard aircraft for yourself potentially add your callsign down when you write it down so you can include that in the read back. CRAFT is handy for IFR pilots also so a good way to remember the order of what ATC is going to read to you when given a clearance.
This controller always makes me get on my game. But I appreciate him. Greenville area has a lot going on in the space around it. A pilot as casual as this is either new, super rusty or in need of retirement. Either way the controller is doing a great job of waking him up without overstepping. The pilot most likely just needed a cup of coffee and to remember he was not out in rual airspace.
Ironic you say that the airport he wanted to go to was a rural airport... 1 runway and 1 taxiway in the middle of a forest and fields and then like a couple small towns an hours drive away
Uh… sumter isnt that rural also it had 2 runways. And is underneath the SSC Class C shelf. Its area has like 100k and is a 5 min drive. Idk whats wrong with this pilot. Drunk?
Guy should get a hand radio, sit outside on a chair, write down clearance in shorthand and practice reading them back. Spend a few days doing that and he'll probably get the hang of it.
@@Ndub1036- I think the poster is talking about just listening, then reciting back to themselves. You're correct in that you can't _transmit_ , but you can listen.
@@nickdaniels4385I don’t think radio incompetency ought to be grounds for revocation as in all reality no one was really in danger here, he obviously knows the psychomotor portions of flying which are the most important.
I just can not believe the pilot in this video was ever, ever cleared to fly a CAP plane. It takes a whole lot of check rides beyond basic VFR to get approved, there's just no way this pilot passed any of those.
I fly with CAP a lot and there is definite expectation and level competency that pilots are supposed to have in this guy isn’t making the cut. Not to mention we are supposed to use the CAP callsign. Doesn’t mean he cant/wont improve. But this is definitely something that should be worked on Anyways - thanks for the video, I just found your channel and I’m working towards my CFI and your videos are a big big help!!
I am also wondering what type of mission he was flying. If this was his check ride, he is not going to go far and he might want to switch to a ground team with a very patient GTL.
How many CAP planes are based at KGSP? KSMS is 106 nm away and is a pretty routine mission profile for a CAP VFR flight. VFR flight following is usually not required unless is a requirement by a local commander or by SOP. The CAP pilot started this conversation like any CAP flight would be designated. 7. CAP Call Sign Usage. Because the CAP-assigned aircraft call sign “CAP XXXX” is con- sidered an “Air Carrier” call sign by the FAA, it may, if conditions permit, be transmitted using the FAA-prescribed “Group Form” as described below. Only the “CAP” aircraft call sign may be transmitted in this way, and flight crews should be prepared to use digit-by-digit pronunciation when required by conditions. Group Form: “Group form” is the pronunciation of a series of numbers as the whole number, or pairs of numbers they represent rather than pronouncing each separate digit. Note that “zero” is pronounced “ze-ro”, not “oh” and that 4-digit numbers are always pronounced as two pairs. How- ever because group form is FAA procedure, numerals are pronounced as plain words and not as phonetic pronunciation, e.g. you say “nine” and not “niner.” Examples: “CAP forty-two twenty seven” “CAP two thirty two” “CAP seventeen zero six” “CAP nine eleven” “CAP ninety-nine zero one” If ground ask Delta 422 what his aircraft designator was , they would life because in all my years of flying, has a ground controller ever interrogated an air carrier , military or CAP about the planes tail number. If the mission was conducted as CAP 63 , that should have been the end of this drama. Most of you are commenting on a situation you don't understand the rules to and is a indicator of an arrogant society happy to point out others flaws even when they are painfully uninformed.
He checked in with the CAP call sign. If you can see through the ATC bullshit you aren't much of a team player. You should be defending this pilot not piling on. 😡
Oh I was sitting at the overlook on approach end of 19 when this happened. I was about to loose it and I know ground was as well. My thought was this guy is either intoxicated or having some type of medical condition.
@@AnonyMous-jf4lcI have some 75 y/o + friends who are former airline pilots who are most likely more proficient right now than you could ever hope to be.
At some point, maybe a ramp check in an extreme case like this, for his safety and the safety of others. I know, where are they when you really need them? I was so proud of the controller for being so patient and calm.
Holy shit I’m only a student pilot just starting my journey I haven’t even started with the flying I’m doing my ground school first and this aggravated the hell out of me I was practicing the read back with the atc and to hear that pilot mess up like that made me mad lol
It would seem to me that at some point with that level of confusion ATC might have decided to contact some one to check the pilot out for a medical issue and just not approve taxi or take off clearances till the pilot was deemed mentally sufficient.
I'm surprised he was allowed to take off when he's clearly not paying enough attention. The workload is greater when flying. I hope he improves himself to at least meet the minimal standards & doesn't end up in an upcoming crash video.
As soon as you hear him say "uh roger" after the second transmission, you already know he is all kinds of confused but still wanted to pretend he's in the game
@@javadocF16 never said I was perfect, nobody is. But this guy shouldn't even be allowed to fly a CAP aircraft, whoever did his Form 5 checkout should also be questioned. Thanks for the education about CAP.
It's just practice, really. Being nervous makes it worse as well, you have to be relaxed and realize ATC isn't trying to test you or call you out, they're just doing a job. It's like when you're nervous during an interview you're qualified for and you just can't string sentences together. But the more you do it, the more you'll chill out. Listen to LiveATC and try to practice the phraseology on your own, it'll help ease the nerves to he well prepared. Also, have some pen and paper, and just find a shorthand to write things down quickly! You'll find plenty of recordings of airline pilots messing up, nobody's perfect. Most importantly, if you're confused or need clarification, always ask even if it's embarrassing!
Here, in the EU, you need to complete COMMS theory, RT practice and an LPE 4+ to use an aircraft station i.e. an aircraft transceiver. You can't 'solo' without...
What a calm and polite ATC. I was also thinking that stage that if I were the ATC I would refuse taxi clearance and to readback was correct. Part of me was thinking that the ATC should have insisted that the pilot call his instructor to accompany him on the flight.
Sounds like the pilot could have used a pen, some paper, and a decent shorthand skillset for taking down instructions to make it super easy to read back. I'm not a pilot, but I guess if I was I would have written the instruction down like this. With my desired callsign written at the top of my sheet. r030, vfr
@@Trail_Trash he wanted so bad to say Civil Air Patrol. He wanted to be a cool kid. I don’t care if I am flying a C150 I whip out my airline voice, we all have one.
@@Trail_Trash Yeah as I said I'm not a pilot, I have just seen videos of larger commercial pilots recording and writing down thier call sign at the top of thier paper they take down instructions on. Perhaps thats because with the larger commercial jets thier call sign changes based on thier flight or something.
@@MrGeneralScarflight numbers change each flight. Call signs stay the same. And we prefill our clearance and make any small changes needed when we call up clearance delivery.
Even with 180hrs, I still struggle at large controlled airports with multiple taxy ways and runways to read back. Its not easy to talk back in an essentially a second language, and I'm English!
Struggling with a complicated taxi clearance at a large, complicated airport is one thing. But not being about to read back a basic heading, altitude and squawk code is wild, especially as a CAP pilot. I always thought they were supposed to be squared away.
I don't know, I just fly simulators and I understood what this controller was saying. Most of the time they speak so fast my head is spinning. The controller was clear and spoke at a normal rate. If he asks you 3 times to read back your flight # and you still cant do it, that has nothing to do with aviation.
not really, the callsign should have been at the end of the readback, and then he cocked up the taxi clearance. there must be something wrong with the pilot education there, I would not be allowed to solo with inadequate skills like that.
Actually, he didn't finally get it. In a CAP aircraft, his callsign is CAP 3963 not 763CP. ADSB is registered to the CAP callsign, so he never actually got it right.
I'm a fire fighter / EMT. We are considered "mandatory reporters". In certain situations such as suspected abuse, we are required to report to dispatch / law enforcement. Does ATC have any such requirements? If they suspect a pilot is under the influence (showing obvious signs) are they required to report it to someone?
Dude should have been using CAP3963 as his call sign from the very beginning (assuming 39 is the correct number for his state). CAP doesn't use the tail number at least in my experience.
i would never have cleared him, he still failed in the final transmission, clearing him made him a menace going forward. HE exhibits evidence of brain fog, intoxication etc.
I couldn’t even get through the whole thing. That controller definitely has more patience than most of us. Hopefully whoever does this guys FR catches his weak comms because that was not okay.
This guy will put CAP cadets in danger. His Form 5 should be pulled. He is a liability for the Civil Air Patrol and shouldn’t be flying their aircraft.
He sounds like I do when I try to make a RUclips video I no want I want to say but when I turn the camera on it comes out different he needs some practice of air
Whoever released this pilot to fly a CAP aircraft is responsible. Being Proficient is a huge difference from being current. Kudos to the controller, Nice job!
@@thejackbox I 100% agree! Very true and valid point!! I’ve heard more arguments over the radio about who is right and who is wrong in the traffic pattern. Literally fighting on the radio and then almost to blows on the ground over who was right.
Not so much the Flight Release Officer, but the Check Pilot who signed the man's CAP Form 70-5 Check Ride. CAP callsigns are pretty basic stuff, typically the word "CAP" and a pair of two-digit groups, such as "CAP Thirty-three Twenty-six." It's just like an airline callsign. The first two-digit group is the Unit (Wing) Charter Number and the second group is the final two digits in the airplane's tail number. Any pilot who can't get that right should not be signed off as competent.
Does he think that he is on a telephone where it is only he and the tower talking to each other privately? The dude sounds old. I wonder if he is diminishing.
How many CAP civil air patrol planes are based at KGSP? CAP planes fly missions using air carrier designation not tail number. The pilot did give the aircraft tail number but it was the controllers lack of knowledge or his simple desire to act like an arrogant ass, that he started interrogating the CAP pilot. KSMS is 106 nm away and is a pretty routine mission profile for a CAP VFR flight. The choice of crusing altitude is at pilots discretion not ATC on a VFR flight plan. The Controller can provide departure instructions for traffic avoidance but this is not an IFR flight. There was no mention of a filed flight plan but no FP was required for a DAY VFR flight 106 nm to the East. VFR flight following is usually not required unless is a requirement by a local commander or by SOP. The CAP pilot started this conversation like any CAP flight would be designated. 7. CAP Call Sign Usage. Because the CAP-assigned aircraft call sign “CAP XXXX” is con- sidered an “Air Carrier” call sign by the FAA, it may, if conditions permit, be transmitted using the FAA-prescribed “Group Form” as described below. Only the “CAP” aircraft call sign may be transmitted in this way, and flight crews should be prepared to use digit-by-digit pronunciation when required by conditions. Group Form: “Group form” is the pronunciation of a series of numbers as the whole number, or pairs of numbers they represent rather than pronouncing each separate digit. Note that “zero” is pronounced “ze-ro”, not “oh” and that 4-digit numbers are always pronounced as two pairs. How- ever because group form is FAA procedure, numerals are pronounced as plain words and not as phonetic pronunciation, e.g. you say “nine” and not “niner.” Examples: “CAP forty-two twenty seven” “CAP two thirty two” “CAP seventeen zero six” “CAP nine eleven” “CAP ninety-nine zero one” If ground ask Delta 422 what his aircraft designator was , they would life because in all my years of flying, has a ground controller ever interrogated an air carrier , military or CAP about the planes tail number. If the mission was conducted as CAP 63 , that should have been the end of this drama. Most of you are commenting on a situation you don't understand the rules to and is a indicator of an arrogant society happy to point out others flaws even when they are painfully uninformed. Check your own knowledge about a situation before chiming in.
It has nothing to do with the use of a CAP callsign. The pilot couldn't make up their mind and kept using different callsigns, or no callsign at all. Pilot clearly was either drunk or has mental deterioration. Why are you defending them when they are so clearly in the wrong and do not belong at the controls of something that can kill people?
I'm a CAP member of eight years and a certified flight instructor. This pilot is at fault. He needs to have a refresher course, take another checkride, and/or turn in his license, or at least his CAP pilot status.
How did this guy get his pilot certificate? Reading back a clearance is one of the first things they teach after learning to land. This guy sounds impaired.
Excruciating. Pilot should remember that flying is a privilege not a right, and that basic radio comms procedures including call signs are not difficult.
I'm not a pilot, so forgive my ignorance, but don't you guys always have a pen and paper nearby to write down all these numbers so you can remember and read them back correctly? Shouldn't he be writing these down?
That is true most of the time. I fly open-cockpit where pen and paper is at best, difficult to use, and at worst, downright dangerous (absolutely no loose articles in an open-cockpit pusher-prop aircraft because if it CAN leave the cockpit, it almost certainly will and when it does, it's going through the prop). I have to rely on my memory to hold all that information and that was not a particularly difficult sequence. I have dealt with far more complex sequences during zone-transits (which include routing information as well as altitude limits, clearance limits, reporting / hold points, and squawk codes). Having said that, there was one time where ATC realised that I was in a very high work-load situation (I was pinned down under cloud and orbiting a field to decide whether to make a precautionary landing whilst looking for a hole to get back out from under the cloud) and ATC gave me the required details for a change of squawk code and frequency (to allow me entry into controlled airspace where there was a break in the cloud) in two separate chunks so as not to add to my potential task saturation - which was really considerate of them.
@@mrmisterno1 - I have one. It does not work as well as you might think. Paper flaps around on it, eventually getting torn off due to the airflow. In one of my videos, you can see how bad it is just whilst on the ground. Check out "Dougie gets a zoom-climb" (or similarly titled) and you'll see what I mean. Given that I have no need for a pen and paper, they are far more trouble than they are worth.
Shame on that pilot. He MUST be told how incompetent and awful he is. He should be told by everyone that he is a serious danger to the public in the air and on the ground. SHAME ON THAT PILOT
This guy cannot possibly be a CAP pilot. I cannot imagine he could pass the basic Form 5 check ride, much less anything else required. If he is, I sure hope he's not an 0-ride pilot.
Look, if you are too stupid to correctly interact with a controller, park the airplane, get out, and go home. There is a significant problem with pilots whose egos greatly exceed their ability.
Who let Harrison Ford back in the seat???? I think as a controller they can report to the FAA a pilot suspected of being either unable, incompetent or just too old to be flying.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I received some comments and emails about this video so let me address a few things:
The point of my channel is to share my love of aviation and help others along the way. While this video can come across as hard to watch or embarrassing for the pilot, the goal of this video is to be a teaching moment. There's much that can be taken away from what occurred and I encourage pilots to discuss what went wrong and how situations like this can be avoided. End of the day, I desire to see every pilot strive to be safe and confident. I believe the bar of what is acceptable in aviation has been drastically lowered in the past few years (in part probably due to the pilot shortage and pumping out of new pilots), so in my opinion it is important to recognize situations like this so that they can be prevented in the future.
I understand it's easy to point fingers or shame specific organizations, but ultimately I want videos like this to be a teaching tool for ALL pilots no matter where they come from.
Clayton
Clayton, thanks so much for posting these incidents. Believe me, and I think I can speak for most all of us, the lesson hit home. I'm just a virtual pilot (as well as former student pilot who ran out of money), and I practice like hell on Pilot2ATC, when not flying on Vatsim. Personally, I strive to be as professional as possible and watch these videos to understand what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. It seemed pretty obvious that the pilot in the video was not prepared with even a basic pen and paper. There's also no shame in asking ATC to "Please say again slower....". Throw in Student Pilot if appropriate. I've had to do that on Vatsim in my early days of learning. After all, were all student pilots, always learning.
The pilot in question is a Civil Air Patrol pilot and due to the events in this recording, his privileges as a CAP pilot have been suspended. Shame, too, since he had a rash of qualifications to be in that elite group of CAP members. The vast majority of CAP pilots are thorough, competent and professional at all times when operating CAP aircraft. This is a rare incident, to say the least.
No surprise, from what I've seen of CAP over multiple decades. 😡
P.S. I love the controller.
Oftentimes things happen for a reason. Maybe his suspension came in handy. No one will ever know. @@FalconFlightDrone
@@kaptajnsejersen6303 That is very possible. I do know that many CAP pilots are aging out, or nearing that point and all are getting closer to being there every year. They definitely need some younger blood to add to and learn from the experienced pilots that they already have, some of which may not be flying for too many more years.
That C172 pilot was really chill. I can imagine him in the cockpit with a huge bong.
Sheesh, that controller has yelled at me for far less!
LOL!
Good ole Micky 😅
Well that was agonizing. The controller deserves a medal for his patience. This pilot sounds to me like he's accustomed to operating out of pilot-controlled fields and isn't as familiar with comms at a tower controlled airport. Let this be a sign that you need a refresher, my dude.
This pilot sounds to me like intoxicated (seemingly), incompetent (certainly) or constipated (who knows -Lee)
Even if you depart from an uncontrolled field, once you start talking to a controller you need to use your callsign. I guess he doesn't use the radio much at all...
Agonising - yes that's the word I was looking for.
@@matiasmeronofunny you say that just after 0:50 sounds like bottles clank
Sounds about right. He knew some lingo, but not enough lingo.
I was waiting for them to hit him with “Is there an instructor on board the aircraft?” 😂
That’s usually his favorite thing to ask 😂
What airport is this?
KGMU@@lmannyr1
In my commercial career, 2 times that I felt at high risk or was in an unnecessary situation involved a CAP pilot. The 1st time I was pilot monitoring with the pilot flying a CAP Major (I knew this because he constantly let me know). He over shot centerline on the base to final turn and almost killed us as he yanked back the yoke and leveled off putting us in the onset of an accelerated stall until I immediately took control and jammed the yoke forward. After landing, he asked me what the buffet was before I took control. I told him that was a signal that he almost got us killed. The 2nd time was with a CAP pilot walking all over my landing clearance. The tower called our call sign and the CAP pilot that landed before us jumped in and started telling the tower an unnecessary long story of where they wanted to taxi after they had cleared the runway. I was just about to go around when the story finally ended and tower gave us landing clearance and after our landing we heard ground give the CAP pilot an earful.
In my experience with CAP pilots they have a tremendous ego …like the “major” in all actuality that means nothing…..and it certainly doesn’t mean he’s anyone with authority…..that only represents the level of senior member classes he has completed…….they “CAP” should do away with the military style structure…..it’s a breeding ground for inflated,holier than thou mindset
a CAP pilot that flies like this should have their Form5 revoked IMMEDIATELY
@@av8or971 that would be a large pile of form 5's headed to the shredder
This was very similar to conversations I have had with my wife. "I want to hear you recite the entire grocery list...... and read back your call sign"
I fly with CAP, and this gentleman is way below the standard for my state. My -182 check ride was as comprehensive as any I've had in my 40 year + flying experience.
I'm thinking of constructive criticism for this pilot if he ever watches and reads the comments. I would probably say use the CRAFT acronym is likely the best. Clearance (where you are cleared to), route the route to get there, altitude you been assigned, frequency to contact and the transponder frequency. If you read back in that order I think that would make the controller happy also. If you are flying non-standard aircraft for yourself potentially add your callsign down when you write it down so you can include that in the read back. CRAFT is handy for IFR pilots also so a good way to remember the order of what ATC is going to read to you when given a clearance.
This controller always makes me get on my game. But I appreciate him. Greenville area has a lot going on in the space around it. A pilot as casual as this is either new, super rusty or in need of retirement. Either way the controller is doing a great job of waking him up without overstepping. The pilot most likely just needed a cup of coffee and to remember he was not out in rual airspace.
Ironic you say that the airport he wanted to go to was a rural airport... 1 runway and 1 taxiway in the middle of a forest and fields and then like a couple small towns an hours drive away
Lol. Ive flown GMU to SMS lots of times. SMS isnt that rural though. Its directly under a Class C
Uh… sumter isnt that rural also it had 2 runways. And is underneath the SSC Class C shelf. Its area has like 100k and is a 5 min drive. Idk whats wrong with this pilot. Drunk?
@idkjames when I searched for it it shows 1 runway and 1 taxiway for SMS...
2945 Airport Rd, Sumter, SC 29153 ??
@@cptmiller132 cross runway is 5/23 is asphalt 14/32 which is cross is grass
Guy should get a hand radio, sit outside on a chair, write down clearance in shorthand and practice reading them back. Spend a few days doing that and he'll probably get the hang of it.
Pull his license before someone gets killed.
Other than you can’t use a handheld outside an aircraft on av freq without a station license
@@Ndub1036Are the audio feeds not available? I’ve done exactly that when I started flying lessons, using a feed from LiveATC for my local airport.
@@Ndub1036- I think the poster is talking about just listening, then reciting back to themselves. You're correct in that you can't _transmit_ , but you can listen.
@@nickdaniels4385I don’t think radio incompetency ought to be grounds for revocation as in all reality no one was really in danger here, he obviously knows the psychomotor portions of flying which are the most important.
I just can not believe the pilot in this video was ever, ever cleared to fly a CAP plane. It takes a whole lot of check rides beyond basic VFR to get approved, there's just no way this pilot passed any of those.
I fly with CAP a lot and there is definite expectation and level competency that pilots are supposed to have in this guy isn’t making the cut. Not to mention we are supposed to use the CAP callsign. Doesn’t mean he cant/wont improve. But this is definitely something that should be worked on
Anyways - thanks for the video, I just found your channel and I’m working towards my CFI and your videos are a big big help!!
I am also wondering what type of mission he was flying. If this was his check ride, he is not going to go far and he might want to switch to a ground team with a very patient GTL.
Well it is SC Wing after all
How many CAP planes are based at KGSP?
KSMS is 106 nm away and is a pretty routine mission profile for a CAP VFR flight.
VFR flight following is usually not required unless is a requirement by a local commander or by SOP.
The CAP pilot started this conversation like any CAP flight would be designated.
7. CAP Call Sign Usage. Because the CAP-assigned aircraft call sign “CAP XXXX” is con-
sidered an “Air Carrier” call sign by the FAA, it may, if conditions permit, be transmitted using
the FAA-prescribed “Group Form” as described below. Only the “CAP” aircraft call sign may be
transmitted in this way, and flight crews should be prepared to use digit-by-digit pronunciation
when required by conditions.
Group Form: “Group form” is the pronunciation of a series of numbers as the whole number,
or pairs of numbers they represent rather than pronouncing each separate digit. Note that “zero” is
pronounced “ze-ro”, not “oh” and that 4-digit numbers are always pronounced as two pairs. How-
ever because group form is FAA procedure, numerals are pronounced as plain words and not as
phonetic pronunciation, e.g. you say “nine” and not “niner.” Examples:
“CAP forty-two twenty seven”
“CAP two thirty two”
“CAP seventeen zero six”
“CAP nine eleven”
“CAP ninety-nine zero one”
If ground ask Delta 422 what his aircraft designator was , they would life because in all my years of flying, has a ground controller ever interrogated an air carrier , military or CAP about the planes tail number. If the mission was conducted as CAP 63 , that should have been the end of this drama.
Most of you are commenting on a situation you don't understand the rules to and is a indicator of an arrogant society happy to point out others flaws even when they are painfully uninformed.
He checked in with the CAP call sign. If you can see through the ATC bullshit you aren't much of a team player. You should be defending this pilot not piling on. 😡
@@javadocF16defending what? The incompetence of that bozo pilot?
Oh I was sitting at the overlook on approach end of 19 when this happened. I was about to loose it and I know ground was as well. My thought was this guy is either intoxicated or having some type of medical condition.
they should not have let him take off. If hes struggling this much reading back simple instructions he should not be flying an airplane
@@AGM796this is your typical 70+ y/o pilot that will tell you that you don’t know crap
It’s all age imo. He can fly the plane from experience but can’t do multiple things together
@@AnonyMous-jf4lcI have some 75 y/o + friends who are former airline pilots who are most likely more proficient right now than you could ever hope to be.
Amazed he didn't give the guy a number to call.
I'm surprised the controller didn't ask him for his flight school phone number
Scary how i am a pilot with 9.5 hours and i am confident that i can read that shit back better than him
I'm a pilot with 0 hours and 0 training and I can read that shit back better than him 😂
@@matthewmoseng4321 never said i was the greatest pilot ever. All i said is that i wont fuck up so bad that atc wants to quit their job
@@matthewmoseng4321 Isn’t that exactly the point? The dude on that plane doesn’t sound competent enough to be flying.
I was in CAP in the 80s. My commanding officers were not like this! What is happening!
At some point, maybe a ramp check in an extreme case like this, for his safety and the safety of others. I know, where are they when you really need them? I was so proud of the controller for being so patient and calm.
Holy shit I’m only a student pilot just starting my journey I haven’t even started with the flying I’m doing my ground school first and this aggravated the hell out of me I was practicing the read back with the atc and to hear that pilot mess up like that made me mad lol
They should give him a phone number to call
"please read back that phone number with your callsign"
@@spodule6000😂😂😂😂
And what would the phone number (for pilot deviations) be used to for?
@@ashleydavis3342 it would be used for the pilot to call ATC and talk about the training that he needs
It would seem to me that at some point with that level of confusion ATC might have decided to contact some one to check the pilot out for a medical issue and just not approve taxi or take off clearances till the pilot was deemed mentally sufficient.
Can’t believe Mickey didn’t blow his top lol
All things considered, i was blown away how calm he was on the radio haha
I'm surprised he was allowed to take off when he's clearly not paying enough attention.
The workload is greater when flying.
I hope he improves himself to at least meet the minimal standards & doesn't end up in an upcoming crash video.
As soon as you hear him say "uh roger" after the second transmission, you already know he is all kinds of confused but still wanted to pretend he's in the game
Glad you are the perfect pilot. CAP volunteers fly multiple aircraft using mission call signs
@@javadocF16 never said I was perfect, nobody is. But this guy shouldn't even be allowed to fly a CAP aircraft, whoever did his Form 5 checkout should also be questioned. Thanks for the education about CAP.
I struggle like him too when talking to ATC and this happening at my home airport makes me worried ill never get better at talking to ATC
It's just practice, really. Being nervous makes it worse as well, you have to be relaxed and realize ATC isn't trying to test you or call you out, they're just doing a job.
It's like when you're nervous during an interview you're qualified for and you just can't string sentences together. But the more you do it, the more you'll chill out.
Listen to LiveATC and try to practice the phraseology on your own, it'll help ease the nerves to he well prepared. Also, have some pen and paper, and just find a shorthand to write things down quickly!
You'll find plenty of recordings of airline pilots messing up, nobody's perfect. Most importantly, if you're confused or need clarification, always ask even if it's embarrassing!
I joined the Civil Air Patrol in January of 2018 and quit in March of 2018. Why? Unsafe. Unprofessional.
Here, in the EU, you need to complete COMMS theory, RT practice and an LPE 4+ to use an aircraft station i.e. an aircraft transceiver. You can't 'solo' without...
What a calm and polite ATC. I was also thinking that stage that if I were the ATC I would refuse taxi clearance and to readback was correct.
Part of me was thinking that the ATC should have insisted that the pilot call his instructor to accompany him on the flight.
Does a ground controller have authority to not release a pilot they believe isn't competent to fly? New to aviation.
Some people rarely are in touch with atc. And get flustered any time they need to talk on the radio.
Sounds like the pilot could have used a pen, some paper, and a decent shorthand skillset for taking down instructions to make it super easy to read back.
I'm not a pilot, but I guess if I was I would have written the instruction down like this. With my desired callsign written at the top of my sheet.
r030, vfr
the call sign is placarded on the panel right in front of him
If only they made a device to do such a thing.
@@Trail_Trash he wanted so bad to say Civil Air Patrol. He wanted to be a cool kid. I don’t care if I am flying a C150 I whip out my airline voice, we all have one.
@@Trail_Trash Yeah as I said I'm not a pilot, I have just seen videos of larger commercial pilots recording and writing down thier call sign at the top of thier paper they take down instructions on. Perhaps thats because with the larger commercial jets thier call sign changes based on thier flight or something.
@@MrGeneralScarflight numbers change each flight. Call signs stay the same. And we prefill our clearance and make any small changes needed when we call up clearance delivery.
Even with 180hrs, I still struggle at large controlled airports with multiple taxy ways and runways to read back. Its not easy to talk back in an essentially a second language, and I'm English!
I have 2000 135/121 and sometimes still struggle. But this is ridiculous
Struggling with a complicated taxi clearance at a large, complicated airport is one thing. But not being about to read back a basic heading, altitude and squawk code is wild, especially as a CAP pilot. I always thought they were supposed to be squared away.
I don't know, I just fly simulators and I understood what this controller was saying. Most of the time they speak so fast my head is spinning. The controller was clear and spoke at a normal rate. If he asks you 3 times to read back your flight # and you still cant do it, that has nothing to do with aviation.
Legund has itt he still on the ramp attaining clearance vectors
This proves that that blonde that died last month wasn't passed because of her looks. They really do pass anyone.
That is rough. In the end, he did finally get it through. Was tough to listen to.
not really, the callsign should have been at the end of the readback, and then he cocked up the taxi clearance. there must be something wrong with the pilot education there, I would not be allowed to solo with inadequate skills like that.
@@andre-7423 you wouldn't even able to get anywhere near the plane if you can't pass radio exam in my first flight school
@andrekjellstrup7423 The call sign is _allowed_ at the beginning or end; HOWEVER, by far most professional pilots state the call sign at the end.
Actually, he didn't finally get it. In a CAP aircraft, his callsign is CAP 3963 not 763CP. ADSB is registered to the CAP callsign, so he never actually got it right.
I was waiting for a caption saying he turned to the west after takeoff.
I'm not even a pilot and I was screaming...
Same! Wtf. Dude sounded like he was half passed out in a lawn chair surrounded by coronas
Laughing at a controller being an ass. Likely you will never be a pilot then .
I'm a fire fighter / EMT. We are considered "mandatory reporters". In certain situations such as suspected abuse, we are required to report to dispatch / law enforcement. Does ATC have any such requirements? If they suspect a pilot is under the influence (showing obvious signs) are they required to report it to someone?
Of course the fire fighter finds the opportunity to tell us he is one. :)
@@addsub49 Of course! How do you tell someone is a fire fighter? You don't, they'll tell you! LOL
Ground: "You need to use your call sign"
Pilot (in his head): But I'm the only airplane out here!
The pilot since has been suspended from flying pending an investigation.
Ladies and gents: The Civil Air Patrol.
The ATC was a saint. I'm surprised he didn't ask the pilot to taxi back to the hanger and hang up his keys
I’d love to hear his convo with approach
His callsign was "uhh roger..."
Dude should have been using CAP3963 as his call sign from the very beginning (assuming 39 is the correct number for his state).
CAP doesn't use the tail number at least in my experience.
My thought exactly, you are correct. This dude also should not be flying a CAP aircraft or any aircraft for that matter without remedial training.
This is the most excruciating 5 minutes of aviation content I've ever experienced that doesn't involve an NTSB (or similar) report.
i would never have cleared him, he still failed in the final transmission, clearing him made him a menace going forward. HE exhibits evidence of brain fog, intoxication etc.
And this is the Civil Air Patrol? My goodness.
He’s just old and not accustomed to towered fields I would guess.
Then he needs to pay for a CFI and train for towered field communication.
I couldn’t even get through the whole thing. That controller definitely has more patience than most of us. Hopefully whoever does this guys FR catches his weak comms because that was not okay.
This guy will put CAP cadets in danger. His Form 5 should be pulled. He is a liability for the Civil Air Patrol and shouldn’t be flying their aircraft.
Wow. Who signed off his last Flight Review?
That guy should not have been allowed to fly until someone physically checked him out.
And this is a guy who is going to come find you when you are lost or down
Sounds as though someone needs a flight review with the FAA.
Wow my wife had no idea why I was yelling at my phone watching this but that video hurt me so bad
Must be fun to play Simon says with that pilot.
He sounds like I do when I try to make a RUclips video I no want I want to say but when I turn the camera on it comes out different he needs some practice of air
Controller is like Samuel L Jackson “SAY CAP ONE MORE TIME!”
Time to fly out of the Golf Airspace 😂
Perhaps a paramotor might suit him better 😉
That’s where a pen and paper comes in handy
Whoever released this pilot to fly a CAP aircraft is responsible. Being Proficient is a huge difference from being current. Kudos to the controller, Nice job!
It’s all politics from what I hear on those CAP flights. Nothing to do with whether or not they actually should be flying an airplane.
@@thejackbox I 100% agree! Very true and valid point!! I’ve heard more arguments over the radio about who is right and who is wrong in the traffic pattern. Literally fighting on the radio and then almost to blows on the ground over who was right.
Not so much the Flight Release Officer, but the Check Pilot who signed the man's CAP Form 70-5 Check Ride. CAP callsigns are pretty basic stuff, typically the word "CAP" and a pair of two-digit groups, such as "CAP Thirty-three Twenty-six." It's just like an airline callsign. The first two-digit group is the Unit (Wing) Charter Number and the second group is the final two digits in the airplane's tail number. Any pilot who can't get that right should not be signed off as competent.
@@kevinmadore1794 👍🏻
These are the same people that will say psh, who needs an iPad or gps back in my day..😂
What if the ATC suspects that the pilot is under influence or clearly forgot how to fly the plane?
That controller is trying desperately to save lives including the pilot's. Scary that he is up there somewhere.
Does he think that he is on a telephone where it is only he and the tower talking to each other privately? The dude sounds old. I wonder if he is diminishing.
Get yourself a pen and paper pad, greasboard anything! Geesh.
This is just an average day at KSNA
I'm thinking maybe our friend should just declare an emergency now?
People like this never should've gotten a private pilot or recreational pilot certificate.
How many CAP civil air patrol planes are based at KGSP?
CAP planes fly missions using air carrier designation not tail number. The pilot did give the aircraft tail number but it was the controllers lack of knowledge or his simple desire to act like an arrogant ass, that he started interrogating the CAP pilot.
KSMS is 106 nm away and is a pretty routine mission profile for a CAP VFR flight. The choice of crusing altitude is at pilots discretion not ATC on a VFR flight plan. The Controller can provide departure instructions for traffic avoidance but this is not an IFR flight.
There was no mention of a filed flight plan but no FP was required for a DAY VFR flight 106 nm to the East.
VFR flight following is usually not required unless is a requirement by a local commander or by SOP.
The CAP pilot started this conversation like any CAP flight would be designated.
7. CAP Call Sign Usage. Because the CAP-assigned aircraft call sign “CAP XXXX” is con-
sidered an “Air Carrier” call sign by the FAA, it may, if conditions permit, be transmitted using
the FAA-prescribed “Group Form” as described below. Only the “CAP” aircraft call sign may be
transmitted in this way, and flight crews should be prepared to use digit-by-digit pronunciation
when required by conditions.
Group Form: “Group form” is the pronunciation of a series of numbers as the whole number,
or pairs of numbers they represent rather than pronouncing each separate digit. Note that “zero” is
pronounced “ze-ro”, not “oh” and that 4-digit numbers are always pronounced as two pairs. How-
ever because group form is FAA procedure, numerals are pronounced as plain words and not as
phonetic pronunciation, e.g. you say “nine” and not “niner.” Examples:
“CAP forty-two twenty seven”
“CAP two thirty two”
“CAP seventeen zero six”
“CAP nine eleven”
“CAP ninety-nine zero one”
If ground ask Delta 422 what his aircraft designator was , they would life because in all my years of flying, has a ground controller ever interrogated an air carrier , military or CAP about the planes tail number. If the mission was conducted as CAP 63 , that should have been the end of this drama.
Most of you are commenting on a situation you don't understand the rules to and is a indicator of an arrogant society happy to point out others flaws even when they are painfully uninformed. Check your own knowledge about a situation before chiming in.
It has nothing to do with the use of a CAP callsign. The pilot couldn't make up their mind and kept using different callsigns, or no callsign at all. Pilot clearly was either drunk or has mental deterioration. Why are you defending them when they are so clearly in the wrong and do not belong at the controls of something that can kill people?
I'm a CAP member of eight years and a certified flight instructor. This pilot is at fault. He needs to have a refresher course, take another checkride, and/or turn in his license, or at least his CAP pilot status.
ATC should ground him until a breathalyzer test
How did this guy get his pilot certificate? Reading back a clearance is one of the first things they teach after learning to land. This guy sounds impaired.
Excruciating.
Pilot should remember that flying is a privilege not a right, and that basic radio comms procedures including call signs are not difficult.
The pilot sounds like me when I'm on Microsoft Flight Simulator high like fuck.
This ATC has the patience of Gandhi.
😂damn this is like AFP95's FSX vids but irl
Did he then make the flight safely? This was tough to listen to.
If he is a student it couldn’t hurt to say so otherwise they may think something is going on.
Little old to be a student in CAP.🤣
@@JoeSmith-ig3pr I am just here for my in-depth humor and sarcasm.
So when did Harrison Ford get his pilot’s certificate back?
He crashed right? Presumably 10 seconds after takeoff he put it into a stall and crashed into a pre school
*yeah I really want to fly with this guy.. how distracted or dense is this guy*
I think he stole the airplane. He is CLUELESS!
He needs a knee pad and a pen for Christmas. Or at least a piece of paper and a pencil.
If I’m on that airplane, I’m getting off asap!
The lack of intervention is the real problem here…….Clearly dementia is at play. This plane never should have gotten off the ground.
I fear as a student I find myself on one of these videos someday…
I'm not a pilot, so forgive my ignorance, but don't you guys always have a pen and paper nearby to write down all these numbers so you can remember and read them back correctly? Shouldn't he be writing these down?
yes. you expect for them to say the same things every time so it shouldn't be a surprise
That is true most of the time.
I fly open-cockpit where pen and paper is at best, difficult to use, and at worst, downright dangerous (absolutely no loose articles in an open-cockpit pusher-prop aircraft because if it CAN leave the cockpit, it almost certainly will and when it does, it's going through the prop).
I have to rely on my memory to hold all that information and that was not a particularly difficult sequence. I have dealt with far more complex sequences during zone-transits (which include routing information as well as altitude limits, clearance limits, reporting / hold points, and squawk codes).
Having said that, there was one time where ATC realised that I was in a very high work-load situation (I was pinned down under cloud and orbiting a field to decide whether to make a precautionary landing whilst looking for a hole to get back out from under the cloud) and ATC gave me the required details for a change of squawk code and frequency (to allow me entry into controlled airspace where there was a break in the cloud) in two separate chunks so as not to add to my potential task saturation - which was really considerate of them.
@@halfrhovsquared Kneeboard??
@@mrmisterno1 - I have one. It does not work as well as you might think. Paper flaps around on it, eventually getting torn off due to the airflow. In one of my videos, you can see how bad it is just whilst on the ground. Check out "Dougie gets a zoom-climb" (or similarly titled) and you'll see what I mean.
Given that I have no need for a pen and paper, they are far more trouble than they are worth.
Is the pilot having a “medical event”..? Brutal..!
This pilot shouldn't be driving a car much less flying an airplane.
Shame on that pilot. He MUST be told how incompetent and awful he is.
He should be told by everyone that he is a serious danger to the public in the air and on the ground.
SHAME ON THAT PILOT
I dunno. . . is this guy still learning or helmet fire with all them numbers. . lol
That was painful! C,mon dude you’re supposed to be a pilot, and a CAP one at that! Get it together!
He's got a license to fly? WTF!!
There is little chance that pilot isn't having other cognitive issues when they fly. This is no joke.
This guy cannot possibly be a CAP pilot. I cannot imagine he could pass the basic Form 5 check ride, much less anything else required. If he is, I sure hope he's not an 0-ride pilot.
Look, if you are too stupid to correctly interact with a controller, park the airplane, get out, and go home. There is a significant problem with pilots whose egos greatly exceed their ability.
Lol and I’m over here and can’t even get a damn check ride and these idiots out here
This is not good for the CAP on radio communication
Who let Harrison Ford back in the seat????
I think as a controller they can report to the FAA a pilot suspected of being either unable, incompetent or just too old to be flying.
I am surprised this is a CAP airplane. Pilots are required to do a competency check every year and this pilot should/would not pass it.