COMMON IFR APPROACH MISTAKES to Avoid. Most Instrument Pilots make these mistakes when we fly
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Don’t let simple mistakes ruin your flight. In this video we go over three of the most common errors pilots make when flying instrument approaches.
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📝 Contents
0:00 - Intro
0:45 - Overview
0:55 - Glidepath Intercept with Autopilot
2:47 - Incorrect CDI Source
4:41 - Chasing Needles
6:39 - Wrap up
- - - - - - - - - -
This is the kind of instructor we should all have! Knowledgeable, enthusiastic and confident
Never used an A/P much in pistons for approaches, but in a jet the approach mode thing rings true. Many times ATC will leave you high on a visual and just clear you way above the G/S, so you either have to basically have your hand on the alt selector ready to twist down the second they clear for the visual, or be ready to disconnect and just fly the old fashioned way. Also can’t tell you how many times I had to remind my students to get that cdi source to green. My tip is when on vectors, the pink cdi line isn’t doing anything for you, switch it to green right then to not forget.
Heading, Freq-ing, Green
Only for an ILS or LOC must the pilot NAVIGATE the final portion with that NAVAID as course guidance. From AIM 1.2.3: “5. Use of a suitable RNAV system as a means to NAVIGATE on the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure based on a VOR, TACAN or NDB signal, is allowable. The underlying NAVAID must be operational and the NAVAID monitored for final segment course alignment.”
A tip my instructor gave me. Once you're established on final, get your track and direct track lined up on your GPS and set your heading bug. Then fly the bug, avoid making corrections of more than 1/2 bug width and don't fixate on the CDI. Keep your scan moving.
And an anecdote: Know your autopilot before using it in IMC. One of the scariest moments I've ever had in an airplane. I was acting as safety pilot for a friend to shoot some approaches at night in a 172 with a gorgeous avionics package. G3X Touch, GTN750, GFC500 and then some. We had just completed an ILS down to a low approach and went missed, and then were returning home. On the go, ATC instructed us to proceed via our own nav, altitude our discretion as we were operating VFR. We were at around 2,000 MSL, and my friend used Direct To to snap us back toward home. He armed Nav mode, set the altitude bug to 5,500 MSL and set us to V/S at 2,000 fpm. I did not notice right away that he had done this. He became confused when the airplane continued its left turn past the direct course and began fixating on the GPS. He had forgotten to change the nav source from LOC back to GPS, so the autopilot was still tracking the ILS. Meanwhile, our airspeed was decaying rapidly. I was outside the airplane watching for traffic as there were other aircraft in the area, and took a look over at the PFD to notice our airspeed had dropped below 70 kt and still decaying. I called out "Airspeed." And he remained focused on the GPS, trying to figure out why it wasn't behaving as expected. I called out "Airspeed" a second time, and then a third. As it decayed below 55 kt, I called "My controls." disconnected the autopilot and dropped the nose. Turns out he had no idea what the difference was between V/S and IAS modes.
Know your avionics, and never stop flying the airplane.
With the GFC500 and a TOGA button the Nav source would auto-switch to GPS and the FPL auto-unsuspend. The Flight Director would be in GA (straight ahead) and GA (~7 deg pitch up). Once cleaned up, the pilot should set to NAV mode laterally and IAS (not VS) vertically.
@@GeezerGeekPilot Absolutely correct. I don't think that he used the TOGA button as he disconnected the A/P shortly before the "Minimums" callout, added power and started the go-around manually, and hit "Suspend" on the 750 as the prompt came up. So he wasn't even using the features of the system as intended.
I'm not thoroughly familiar with glass cockpit setups like that as the majority of my experience is in a fleet of 172R's with steam gauges, no A/P and a GTN650. But even I know that you can begin a climb initially with V/S as long as you're attentive to your airspeed and capture it with IAS as you intercept your climb speed.
Just goes to show that you should never just take for granted that the guy you're flying with knows what he's doing. Friend or no. Be attentive, ask questions and speak up.
@@GeezerGeekPilot Interesting, the GNS 430 does not auto-unsuspend with TOGA. It would be interesting to check if it flips back to GPS mode.
I love the GFC500, the C182RG I normally rent has Dual GI275's, GTN750 and GFC500. There's a TOGA button but I've never used it. I have the GTN sim on my tablet and X-Plane on my PC. I also use garmin pilot on another tablet which is linked to X-Plane too. So I just flying different scenarios over and over with little variations. About to buy my first plane, which will be way more basic: KCS-55A, STec 30 and getting a IFD440 installed. Never used the IFD440, so have been doing the same with the IDF sim (and IFD100 app). So I had this really confusing issue practicing a flight from Airport A to Airport B. The I set the IAF as a fix prior to the airport, but when I activated the approach via the same IAF I would get a 'missing leg' messing in the flight plane, the AP had no idea what to do and would just keep flying and I couldn't activate the approach??? Turns out that it's because I set an altitude limitation for the IAF that was NOT the same as the altitude limit of the procedure. Maybe the real GPS wouldn't do that, but so glad I found out on the ground.
My goal is to NOT be featured in an APOA Air Safety Foundation video :)
@@Vejitasei Congrats on your future purchase! But yes definitely read all those manuals and learn the systems. If possible, even get some instruction from someone who's familiar with them once you have the airplane. Sims are great but in my experience aren't very good at replicating the behavior of autopilot systems unless you have a ton of mods. As a friend of mine found out as I was trying to coach him over Discord on MSFS on the basics of flying instrument approaches so he could participate on VATSIM. The game had some weird quirks that did not behave as it does in the real world!
And just speaking as an aircraft mechanic, shell out the cash to have a pre-buy inspection done by a mechanic you trust. Better to be disappointed that the plane you were ready to buy is a dud rather than finding out you bought a basket case on your next annual.
Don't trust the seller that it's all good because it had a recent annual either! We had a C177 Cardinal come through our shop recently and we detected a cracked firewall and corrosion on the horizontal stab spar among over things that we declared to be airworthiness items. He found another A&P elsewhere in the state willing to sign the airplane off as airworthy even with those issues, so he elected to take the aircraft as-is. We closed it up and returned it to him declaring it unairworthy but with the necessary documentation for a ferry permit at his request.
Make sure you have someone you trust inspect it! But otherwise good luck and happy flying!
I’m currently dialling in my usage of automation with IFR, and found this one really useful.
Indeed
On a GFC 500, you can arm with approach mode, end up above the glidepath, and descend to capture it. I don't know if this is specific to the GFC 500. You don't have to get below it, then arm with approach mode and fly into it. Its bad practice, of course, but that is another story.
Thanks for that. I agree that I wouldn't do that way anyhow
Currently working on my CFI-I, this is the best explanation of “chasing the needles” and how to correct I’ve heard. Thank you.
You're very welcome!
I love the explanation of the needles and the idea of flying the ILS looking out the window. Definitely going to use that!
I kinda wish you would’ve went one step further in the video talking about the correction. My students definitely chase needles like every other student does but they know who to correct, but it’s the hey if the needle is still moving as you get closer to center then you’re going to blow past centerline.
When they start getting the whole cut your wind correction in half as you keep getting closer they get 1000000x better.
Jason, as others have pointed out, some autopilots do capture the glideslope from above. In my SR22 with the DFC90, I have done this. And the autopilot manual says this:
“In the event the pilot is attempting to capture the glide slope from
above, glide slope will be captured as the aircraft passes through
the glide slope signal, if GS mode was previously armed. If GS
hadn’t been armed, glide slope will be captured by manually
pressing the “GS” button on the autopilot control panel when
within 1 dot of glide slope centerline.”
I have my first IFR journey tommorow as a new flight instructor and it feels like this video is here for me
Enjoy John! You will learn more than any other rating or certificate and your situational awareness will elevate off the charts. Enjoy the journey my fellow CFI. I got my double I in 2021 and loving every moment of instructing.
@@brianb5594 you too, enjoy every flight! You fly in the US I suppose?..
I was in USAF pilot training in 1968, flying the T-37 on an instrument check ride. After shooting a missed VOR approach at the home field, we went out to a practice area and did some slow flight, etc. After that he told me to fly to a particular VOR. I set the frequency into the VOR receiver and proceeded (under the hood) to that VOR. As we got station passage, the instructor had me remove the hood and identify the physical location of the VOR. To my chagrin, I had flown to the wrong VOR. Why? The VOR frequencies for the two VOR's were one digit difference, and the VOR's were around 40 miles apart. I failed that check ride, of course, and had one more chance. Which I passed, but that mistake set me back. I wasn't getting paid to make dumb mistakes.
Had my first instrument flight yesterday, perfect timing!!
🙌🏻
A good trick to help prevent chasing the needle is to bug the heading that keeps your track and desired track identical, then only correct by the width of the heading bug.
Every heading bug I've seen is exactly 10 degrees wide. If you keep your lubber line inside the bug, going no further than the outer edge of the heading bug on either side, then you're only correcting by 5 degrees. Small smooth corrections by default.
That's great !
Runway does not move.
True.
Thanks for your involment in security.
I fly the Fedex Caravans, and that was my first time solo IFR out of Oakland. Midway through my instrument training, I learned about default nav page on the 430 and I could put DTK and TK so I can match the track to the DTK and easily fly any approach even localizer part of ILS to perfection.
Cross track (x track) is also extremely helpful
I was taught the same thing and it made tracking a course SO much easier.
yeah, use the Track as well. Donˋt even need the DTK though, thatˋs written on the chart :)
i believe you can select a variety of displays on the default nav page or several other pages on the garmins. i never needed desired track, only ground track. it simpifies everything because you can forget about outguessing the wind!
Jason, 01:03 Just FYI, the G1000/GFC700 in my DA40 does indeed capture "from above" a Glideslope, Glidepath, or VNAV profile... as I've verified dozens of times when "left high" by ATC. I've also seen this work just fine with the GFC500 autopilot. Wayne (DA40 KSBA)
Interesting to know.
Yes, that's what I'm hearing. Thanks for the clarity. I still don't like the practice for what it's worth.
Great tips as always Jason!
jason you should try flying ground track since you are using gps nav. so much simpler because you can forget about wind. say the final approach course is 310 and the needle is right of center. if you fly any course higher than 310 you are heading back to the runway centerline. the best way to stop students from chasing the needle is tell them to correct no more than 5 degrees from final approach course. so say the needle is to the right no more than 315 degrees and if it is left no lower than 305 degrees. once on centerline if you fly a ground track of 310 the needle will never move. now the additional task of guessing what the wind is doing is eliminated and as you know seconds are like minutes for single pilot IFR particularly with no auto pilot!
On the high GS intercept, just arm the LOC only. Capture that, then us aggressive VS to capture glideslope and the arm Approach.
Awesome topic!
you nailed it when suggesting picking a target heading to turn to for LOC intercept................Dont chase those needles. Pick a target heading,,, wait to see if it trends towards the needle centering...then fly that heading until LOC intercept. If your target heading shows no effect, then pick another target heading and turn to it.... fly it.... and so on... dont just start "wishfully" turning chasing the needle. Good video
Great presentation. Thanks
This is spot on! Thanks!
Great tips!!!
🙌🏻
Your first bullet point, that the autopilot won't intercept a glidepath from above, really hits home for me. Once I was at the end of a long solid IMC flight and looking forward to an A/P coupled RNAV approach into my fuel stop. I don't remember if Center gave me a "slam dunk" approach or if I just wasn't aggressive enough in descending to the published intercept altitude, but I wound up in this exact situation. I thought everything was great, the approach was active, all the modes were armed, I reached the FAF and reduced power to start down, and after a few seconds I got the stern "Airspeed!" warning in my headset... the A/P had not started following the glidepath!
I knew this was going to be an approach to nearly minimums; with hindsight perhaps I should have immediately gone missed and set things up again, but what I did was kick off the autopilot, dive for the needles, and then hand-fly an RNAV LPV approach all the way to minimums and then a sweaty, exhausted landing. Phew.
Not something I'll let myself get into again.
Thanks for these reminders - the first issue just happened to me the other day; I got dumped onto an ILS way too high, and the armed KAP140 didn’t catch the GS; I blew right through it.
I would think that a more modern FD/AP combo like GTN/GFC can handle it, but I better not rely on it and be prepared.
I was taught by my instructor the reason why you capture the glide slope from below at least with ils it avoids the side lobes. Our tolerances in Australia are harsher. Missed approach at half scale after the faf.
Great video! There's a good reason why AP doesn't and shouldn't capture glideslope from above. The false glideslopes are a real thing.
Saw Chops' in your opening. He was looking kinda - well sort of scared , like he usually does. : )
Sure hope he passed his ride with you.
Because I do all my training solely through his commentary.
Awesome 😎😎😎😎
Great video! ... BTW, I see another common mistake: when flying an ILS approach, some people forget to switch back the CDI source on SID departure and wonder why the plane isn't flying the waypoints!
I did a good demo of failure to flip the CDI back to GPS on my G500 txi. The GFC 500 will not switch on the NAV light until you switch the CDI back. This was after running an ILS approach, so the ILS signal was likely invalid at that point (past the missed).
Excellent video Jason!!! You were even using the gi-275 CDI which I have!! Perk!!!
You're going to love our instrument course! ;-)
@@TheFinerPoints I already paid for John and Marthas course, but if that puts me to sleep like the PPL material, I will give you a look!
Wish I saw this two days ago; had a couple of rookie mistakes on my Group 1 IFR flight test yesterday (1 Feb), but made it and no small thanks to your great tips. Thanks!
The older BK KAP150 can intercept the ILS from above, but…
In IMC, descending towards the earth, hoping the old electronics box works as intended…. Or the old aviation brain is working as expected…Might no be a good idea…
Hope is a terrible flight plan…. - a -
Great video, thank you!
Probably everyone knows this, but it came to my attention sooner or later. Flying an ILS missed approach on the green needles, press the CDI button to get the magenta needles back for the missed. Self evident, but I know myself well enough to forget things. Do I have that right?
Please a lesson video on using TRK, DTK, and the magenta diamond, to fly courses inbound during varying crosswind conditions. THANK YOU!
The AFMS for the GFC 500 autopilot says it can capture the glideslope from above or below the glideslope. It's still a better, more stable, idea to capture from below though.
Nice job. What's the status on your private pilot training for android and for that matter for online windows?
I found overshooting the Final Approach Track/ Localiser was always a common one for me when training...
Hold up! Jason, love your content and your teaching style- I have learned so much from you. But this vid has me thinking…
Re #1: Using AP from above GS, if you’re AP has VS mode and you set a steeper fpm it should capture the glide slope/vert guidance.
Re #3: Positive trend on the localizer/lateral guidance does tell you you’re on an intercept, HOWEVER- positive trend alone doesn’t tell you that you’ll intercept before theFAF or even the MAP, so also need to monitor distance from MAP (or altitude above DA).
If ATC keeps you above the GS/GP and you need to dive to get under before you hit FAF, is it okay to descend faster than 1000 fpm? I had a situation yesterday where setting VS to 1000 was not enough to capture the GP and I had to go missed.
A second issue that came up then was what would be the way to go missed if you the decision is made well above DA and some still miles away from the field?
Back in the day I used to fly a Navajo. I always hand flew my instrument approaches. Just to be sharp. In reality I think I didn't want an auto-pilot to do my flying.
Amr Hosny
Amr Hosny
0 seconds ago
in one of your videos, which I can't seem to find, you showed a yoke mounting for the IPAD, can you share the name and where to get it from.
#3!
You can safely descend to the localizer step downs and intercept the glide slope. The glide slope also doesn’t move, it doesn’t “come down to you.” Also also if you are above it like 1-1.5 dots above the glide slope you don’t have to go missed. See my comment on descending to localizer step downs if the approach has them. Words mean things and you need to be careful what words you use to instruct these concepts.
Need to get current again, 6 HITs on FTD Simulator (in choppers though!) I wrote the CFII written but was hired As Heli tour pilot and CFI… still haven’t done the Checkride, maybe Never will become a CFII?! Also been a while since I’ve flown in a Cessna, kinda miss it 😊
CDI button on the Garmin 430 got me a while back. I forgot to switch and I flew a perfect ILS to somewhere besides the runway :/ Fortunately it was practice hood work not hard IMC. Auto pilot... what is this thing I hear and read about? Actually, I've flown with an autopilot a few times but never in the instrument environment. My training aircraft is all steam... The nicest thing in it is the Garmin 430
Hopefully it's part of your checklist now. That's the $800 button when you do it on a checkride, probably better than if you do it in actual though.
@@ItsAllAboutGuitar My CFII called it the $800 button. He let me learn the hard way so it should be ingrained. We went missed once he was satisfied that I had forgotten all about pushing the button. Sadly, for me, awesome for him, he's moving on to an airline soon. It seems like the journey to the instrument rating has been like that for quite a while...
You mean the button that has been pressed so many times that it now requires varying degrees of force that changes with the day, time and temperature? That button?
@@Saml01 Lol that would be the one
IFR pilots take notice...please. Let me tell you something about spatial disorientation that I NEVER hear anyone talk about, but it was enough to convince me to never get my instrument rating. Many years ago I was at Universal City in LA taking a tram ride through the park. We stopped inside this round tunnel that was painted white with a black helical stripe painted through the length of the tunnel. The tram was dead still. Then the tunnel began rotating around us. Within seconds my head was slammed hard over onto my left shoulder and with all my strength I could not raise my head to the vertical. I was effectively paralyzed. The tram was right side up and stationary the entire time!! I believe this probably occurs in many such accidents attributed to spatial disorientation....one can become completely physically incapacitated and unable to manipulate the controls. Imho, single pilot IFR is simply too dangerous, especially if one is not aware of this risk. It's not simply a matter of flying the instruments. If one is paralyzed, you're probably going to die.
This is one of the major reasons TO get an IFR rating. Even if you never intend to fly in IMC, one day you might find yourself trapped within it. Those skills are what prevent the very outcome you describe.
Better to have a fire extinguisher and never use it than be in a fire without one.
@@someguyontheinternet7165 I mentioned the above incident to highlight what might be an unreported factor in many pilot deaths. It should be a subject of research to better understand what triggers it. Perhaps motivate autopilot mfgs to recommend having thumb actuated engaged buttons on the yoke, or voice activated, in case of paralysis. Or automatilly actuated autopilots if certain parameters are exceeded. We have the technology to do this. Because the fact is…pilots keep dying.
The GFC 500 can capture from below or above the glide slope assuming the localizer is captured on an ILS approach.
“When the selected navigation source is an ILS, glideslope coupling is automatically armed when the APR key is pressed. The glideslope cannot be captured until the localizer is captured. The autopilot can capture the glideslope from above or below the glideslope.”
Well, this was a great 7 minute IFR tips video. I have NEVER, EVER chased the needle. 🤥
Idea for followup to this lesson: chasing the glideslope/path needle. How NOT to do that !!
GFC700 can capture from above not sure how far above though.
Roger. Yes, I hear that some autopilots are capable. Not sure how I feel about that procedure ...
🧡
I’m a needle chaser, practice practice practice
Foreflight performance plus user* lol
What do you mean the Runway is a fixed point on the ground?
You obviously haven't flown approaches with me...
:-/
Its like you know. The last two years you have had a lot of videos on private training and now you're transitioning to IFR.
Have you seen the channel? Check out the IFR playlist
Acronyms cause a lot of problems in
understanding concepts.
Auto pilot? Who can afford an auto pilot? GPS? Who can afford a GPS?... How about a KNS80?
First
Never go tired to a check ride. Always have a IAP check list. Get a better headset. I'm telling you because I failed a IR rating on the practical.