Misbehaving Mossberg Patriot Rebuild Part 1: Kickoff & Discussion with Jim Harmer (Backfire TV)
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
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Have you ever had a rifle that just doesn’t shoot? Jim Harmer from Backfire TV has chronicled a series of issues with his .308 Mossberg Patriot. At this point he's asking "is it even possible to fix?" Jim shipped us the rifle to see if we could duplicate the issue, and troubleshoot the accuracy issues. In this video, we kick off the rebuild project in a discussion with Jim. Can we get it to shoot? Stay tuned to find out.
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I wanna know whats wrong with it. Please diagnose it and not just change parts until it shoots small groups. Thanks Hugh
I agree, re-barrel as a last resort. First check/ improve existing parts.
I agree!
Oh he will. This guy is the most expert gunsmith on RUclips as far as precision goes. I rank him and Erik Cortina right up there on top but who am I to say
Same here. Don't just put a barrel on it unless that's what it needs
I 100% want to see like: change rings - shoot, nope didn't help. Bed action - shoot, made it a bit better. Agreed step by step because this is would be a cool this is how to trouble shoot your rifle, cheapest modification to most expensive (work intensive).
Don't just change everything out! Find THE reason it's not grouping. Is it a bad crown? Don't just change the barrel. If it's the stock or plastic box, prove it. Help owners determine how to fix it, without spending lots of money replacing parts.
Exactly, don't just turn this into a full custom rifle without ever pin-pointing what the main accuracy problem was.
Totally agree use the factory barrel first to prove that it is part of the problem it could be a combination of simple issues. This is a 400.00 rifle lets not make it a 1000.00 upgrade Let's FIND THE PROBLEMS FIRST!
1 stock touching the barrel
2 plastic magazine box, possible bedding it?
3 stock and receiver are out of wack with each other
4 possible the action needs bedding
5 bad crown
6 lug to stock movement
7 loose chamber out of Tolerance
8. let us PROVE what the problem or problems are first!
I was just about to comment that find out the issue by excluding possible issues one by one to find out the real cause.
Its the plastic magazine well sandwiched in-between the action and stock. There is no real way to fix it other than a whole new stock/magazine system design, and that's not really a fix per say as a complete redesign. Shoot they used red locktite on the rear action screw as a stop. When I cleaned mine off to try and torqe things, per mossbers torque spec, the screw crushed the trigger guard and wood in the bottom of the stock, and it went into the action so far I could not insert the bolt. Mossberg needs to take this one back to the drawing board.
@@jonathanrogers9961 an aluminum /steel pillar front and rear from action screw head to bottom of action would go a long way, but screw heads seating into plastic is the worst engineering EVER!! Along with the Remington X Mark Pro Trigger.....just sayin'
No no no. I want to see you fix the stock gun first. Not a new barrel. I want to see it get fixed to see what the issue would be. Maybe barrel scope it.
you cant fix it. The problem is the magazine well sandwiched in-between the action ans stock. The only way for it be be fixed is for mossberg to completely redesign the rifle.
@@jonathanrogers9961 are they all that way? I’d be curious since some seem to do so good.
@@mr.mr.3301 look at the video as hes taking the trigger guard off. See the red thread locker on the bolt? Its not to keep it from coming loose. Its a stop to keep you from threaded the bolt in top far and breaking the plastic magazine well. If you take the thread locker off, and bed the stock, then try to torque the bolts per mossbergs specs, you will crush the plastic trigger guard and the wood underneath it as well as have the screw come so far out the other size that it blocks the bolt from going into the rifle. Not to mention crush the magazine well. Ask me how i know......
Yes they are all like that, horrible design.
@@jonathanrogers9961 too bad. It could be a great value.
@@mr.mr.3301 i tried to fix mine. Every fix revealed another flaw, i gave up. Only way to actually fix it, best i could tell, would be to pillar bed it. But i couldn't figure out how, not enough wood, or enough clearance between the screw hole and the magazine well to fit them.
If you put that action in a new stock with a new trigger and a new barrel it's not even the same gun and now costs two to three times as much as you spent in the first place. It's pointless to the average person for you to do that. Test one thing at a time and isolate the problem for the least amount of money possible. Barrel should be last as that's the most important part of the entire gun. No one is buying a mossberg Patriot planning to replace the trigger, stock and barrel.
Hes changing parts to find the problem
@@buckaroobonsi555 Did you just call out Eric from Iraqveteran8888? lol
I've been a mechanic for 30+ years and would never just tell a customer "we'll replace the engine, heck the tranny to" just for poor performance or a misfire. There are technicians and there's parts replacers, but this is on another level if your doing a $1500+ make over on a $300 rifle.
exactly the repair should not exceed the original cost of the rifle....
Taking everything apart and building from the original action with new parts is not fixing the problem. At that point it is a custom rifle, and does not represent what others do with their rifles to fix there issues. It becomes a custom rifle and not everybody else has someone like you to do all this work. Why buy the Mossberg Patriot when what turns out to be a custom rig. I come from mechanical engineering background and own a machine and fab shop. Replacing everything is only viable when other changes do not work, Then don't buy Mossberg start with a custom action and go from there.
I have a feeling we’re about to see how to spend eight thousand dollars on a four hundred dollar rifle 😂
I think we all agree on here - we have been following this rifle with backfire for awhile wanting to know the problem and solution to fix it. So just like in cars, throwing new parts in a rifle till nothing of original rifle is left doesn't make u a mechanic( gunsmith) that makes u a parts changer, and anyone can do that just depands on how much money u got in bank to throw at it.
EXACTLY!
Find the ISSUE FIRST! We dont care about spending $4k on upgrades!!. I say the chamber is way out of spec and has a huge jump to the lands, plus i had a mossberg and the barrel would walk all over once it got warm. Junk steel that had stress in it
That would be my first guess: cheap china steel.
I agree but you can make a junky barrel shoot 1.5 moa and at least be a serviceable hunting rifle.
@codyvickers967 i agree but so annoying watching a zero shifting every shot. For a few extra bucks a new barrel can be found
I think I agree with most everyone else. Id be far more interested in seeing the process of wroking through this rifle and fixing the issue while keeping the rifle in stock condition without changing a bunch of parts. It would be a far more valuable and educational series if you showed step by step how to diagnose the problem and then fix it. Just my two cents.
It would be really nice to see you get it shooting in a manner a regular guy could achieve... Find a way to bed it, re cut the crown, add a muzzle device, lap the lands, etc.... Try and make is shoot using only what it is and bolt ons...
Changing the barrel literally makes it a different gun.
I agree. Doing a $1500+ total make over doesn't teach anything. Not everyone has that kind of money to spend on a $500 rifle. It's kind of stupid too.
@@buckaroobonsi555 quit being so poor and bitter... the guy owes you or this rifle anything.. he can do whatever he sees fit to make a gun what he wants it to be.
its not shocking a $300 MOSSBERG rifle isnt a great gun... at least go with a SAVAGE if you are broke haha they are at least known to be accurate since i was a child, Mossberg is known for pump action shotguns not bolt action rifles ... if you are buying a mossberrg budget rifle you are taking the chance that you are getting a crap rifle.
now if they produce bolt action rifles over a decade that have built a reputation that be dif
I was gifted a Remington model 7 by a dear friend who was giving up shooting. The barrel was rusty, having been stored in a cabinet in a garage for some time, so I had it rebarrelled with a Bartlein. I am a fair shooter, not good just fair, but could never get this rifle to shoot. I tried a variety of powders but could only get it to shoot at around the 1" mark. A friend who has done professional load development noted a pattern in the groups and told me I had a mechanical problem I checked the bedding, took out any flashing, torqued the action screws, checked the Pic' rail, rings and scope mount screws too, but there was no change. Eventually he asked me if I'd checked the contact on the bolt lugs, I hadn't, and found that only one was in contact. I used Jeweller's rouge to polish the proud bolt lug and now have two lugs making good contact! I took it to the range with a set of trial loads of a new powder and two out of the 6 charges trialled gave me groups in the 0.5's. Happy days!!
You guys need to keep it simple and isolate the problem !
this is gonna be good! sitting down to watch the whole video!
I had an employee that brought me the same rifle in .308 and it had the same issue. I fixed it with a Boyd’s custom stock and a good bedding job. It fixed every problem with his.
Glad to see everyone is of one mind on this issue. One change at a time!
I am with a lot of people. Fix the gun without just replacing parts. For me that would start with the bedding and the plastic magazine box. Is it clearanced properly? Second would be recrowning it and checking the thread alignment. And then looking at how the chamber has been cut. But my guess is it's a bedding problem.
I'm having a thought that the plastic cartridge box is the main problem.
@@Moraprecisionreloader I would at least glass it in with release agent. Fill those gaps on the bottom side.
Not sure if this is part of the plan but would love if you could diagnose what the initial problem was. That would be a lot of help to Mossberg Patriot owners who may be experiencing the same problem. Best of luck with the build!
I'll be using this vid to see if gavin reads the comments
Once you change the barrel and true the action, it becomes a custom rifle. So one may as well start off building such from the beginning.
I want to see that "bottom plastic" bedded properly into the stock. Im wondering if the plastic isn't getting a good solid contact with the stock and allowing the action to move around ever so slightly under recoil.
Like others have said, I would really like to see how the rifle shoots after just changing the stock. Then, change the barrel. An approach not too dissimilar from Eric C's needmore series, but with the UR twist would be fun.
I have been following the story on this rifle for a long time now. Please don’t change the barrel! To me that defeats the purpose.
Like others have said, change/fix things one at a time. If it were me I'd start with the funky "bottom plastic", especially the bottom "ribbed" side through which the action screw passes. Those ribs can't (realistically) mate well with the stock. A bedding job just between the bottom plastic and the stock would be something to consider early in your modifications list. BTW -- cool concept for a video series, I look forward to future episodes!
Yep, that was my first thought.
Fix the issues with the gun as is. Check the chamber dimensions(extra super duper long "don't sue us" throat), groove and land(look what happened with the new Hudson), slug that bore, check the crown. Is it possible to secure the "bottom plastic" and remove the plastic piece with front receiver screw through it? All that before pitching the barrel.🤷♂️🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Love to see a technical evaluation of measurements, etc, chamber and so-on. Then incremental modifications. Seeing the "goofy" plastic base us where I'd point the first finger. Maybe bed it with the action first, then shoot. Then move on to the next modification if that doesn't improve groups, you get the idea. With diagnostic demonstrations, average Joe might be able to gain the experience tools to work through their issues without spending the price of another "budget" rifle.
Love that little cabin at the end. That's ideal.
Please try to fix it without changing everything!
I’d love to see you start by bedding the stock rifle. Especially since you mentioned wanting to keep the factory stock at first. Bedding seems to be the go-to thing a lot of gunsmiths say for a rifle so testing that theory with this known problem rifle would be awesome. Then start changing parts as needed.
I think a diagnosis and repair would be more interesting and useful than the complete rebuild that is proposed.
I have a hunch that the flex from the plastic insert is allowing the barrel to touch the stock; Try sanding down the stock at the front so that there's a good amount of clearance all the way around the barrel.
This will be a great series. I can't wait to see how good it shoots after you're done with it!
First thing that I would do is to remove the plastic front tab from the plastic cartridge will and glass bed the receiver withBrownells Accro Glass😮. If this does not show results I would suggest a pillow bedding to eliminate any inconsistencies in the bedding. This with the use of a torque wrench and controlling the torque will usually grossly improve the grouping.
I would go with a free floating barrel and carefully glass the receiver completely. I have two examples of this procedure, and in both cases the root cause of the problem was the fact that both receivers were not making good contact in the inlettiing at the rear receiver of the receiver.
Leave the Barrel alone until you can show that the Barrel, either has a bad crown or is dimensionally unstable in the bore diameter. For the bore diameter testing I would use a Federal air bore gaging setup with an accuracy of 0.0001 or better readout.
Just call Erik Cortina and slap a tuner on it! 😂
looking forward to the next video!!!
Looking forward to this. I have seen hit and miss reviews on the Mossberg Patriot.
I absolutely LOVE ❤❤❤ a classic Walnut, hunting rifle setup and that Patriot fills the bill (at least for looks). However, I have purposely overlooked this make/model because of Jim's original set of videos. It will be fantastic to see that story through to the end.
As nearly everyone is saying find the problem first. My guess is that remarkably flimsy plastic mag box the front actio screw is "bedded"
on. In any case
, get a load, document accuracy and then address, step by step, the effects. Lots of work, but that is why we love your channel, you do the hard stuff.
I’ve read several reports of these being multi-MOA right out of the box.
I have a Mossberg mvp in 308 and at first it shot 4 to 5 moa because of the plastic insert. It was too weak of a base for the action. I had to use epoxy in it and now it's great! Just over 1moa (5 rounds) with hunting ammo! Let me know if you want more info.
I also have a MVP in 308. It's been a while since I've taken it to the range, but it usually kept to 1 to 1.5 MOA with 150-155 grain handloads. It didn't like 165/168's. I thought about bedding the action, but other rifles came along and distracted me. Your comment reminded and convinced me I should do it.
I'd love more info on how you went about it
Replace the plastic mag-well with a metal one. Then bed the stock with- BROWNELLSACRAGLAS GEL 2 GUN BEDDING KITS, and cut more clearance a the front of the stock. (Free float the barrel).
Good idea on a series. “How to polish a Mossterd” Interested in seeing how many labor hours and parts it takes to solve the issue especially after the factory guys sent it back with their seal of approval. Like everything else in the industry, QC is left up to the consumer . I hate to be so negative but if a semi-reputable company can put out a entry level rifle targeting a price point customer this is the result you have to expect and it should not be acceptable.
Well said.
Unfortunately, you’re going to take a 4=500 dollar rifle and throw over a thousand into it to cure its problems. Now you’ll have a 1500 to 2000 dollar Mossberg. I’d rather see low dollar improvements such as bedding, free floating, etc to see what helps.. still may be the barrel, but i just couldn’t put that kind of money into s mossberg. This will end yp being a full custon build off a patriot action.
Agreed
Looks like a fun project on what should have been a budget level rifle, can’t wait to see your expertise poured into it..
I would to see you keep the barrel and instead of throwing a whole bunches of changes at it and then you really never know what fixed it. Basically don’t do a shotgun approach to it.
First off, has the barrel been free floated?
Second, I didn’t like the box plate design. As a test could you shoot it without the plastic piece sandwiched between barrel and stock. Even if you had to shoot it as a single shot for testing.
Before you start changing things see if you can 100% eliminate the problem. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Bought some Barry’s bullets based on your recommendation. Thanks
I bought a Savage 111 that would hold about a 5" group at 100 yards. This didn't matter what factory or handloaded combo I tried. The absolute best group I was able to achieve was around 3" with a very downloaded 162gr bullet around 2200 fps.
What I ended up doing is I swapped the factory synthetic stock for a Boyds. This instantly made the gun 2.5 MOA regardless of the loading.
Now, I have something to build off of. My next step was to really, really clean the barrel (because of all the rounds I shot trying to get it to find the load) and run a few patches with polishing compound through the barrel.
That made my best load go from a 1.5 MOA to consistently falling between .6 and 1 MOA depending on the day.
I'd love to see if the accuracy could be improved without a barrel change.
I have the same rifle but with composite stock. My .308 shot 2-4” no matter what hand loads i worked up. I sent backfire this same message and told him exactly what i did. First i checked the action screws ,they were lose. I torqued them too 30 inch pounds in front and 27 inch pounds in the rear. Second, I reviewed video of Mr shooting my rifle. Every shot this rifle kicked so much the barrel would lift 4-5” off the front bag. I did two things.. i added a rudder slip on harmonics suppressor..then i added a Witt’s machine clamp on muzzle break.The barrel isn’t threaded so slip on was the only way. This reduced recoil by at least 50%..These three things got my recoil and the barrel whip under control… Groups went down too 1.5-2” at 100 yards..
With some tweaking of the rubber suppressor and tuning of some hand loads..several handloads.. it shoots MOA out to 300yards . IF you change the barrel etc. etc. etc. then you haven’t solved the problem. Making inexpensive rifles shoot is what I enjoy doing and MY Patriot shoots lights out.
Look forward to watching the series.
I have a mossberg ATR nighttrain in 308 win which I believe is the same platform as the patriot. I thought the gun was trash found out the picatinny rail was loose and the scope that came with it couldn’t keep zero. Once the rail was locktite down and new scope put on it shot MOA and it my trusted deer rifle.
Please show the whole process. I can’t wait to see how much has to be changed
drives me nuts when a gun comes with weaver bases and I don't have rings to work with it
I don’t have any experience with Mossberg, but I love Savage, and have 3 different Savage rifles. 2 that are completely stock, and one built on a Savage 110 action, that are all MOA or better. But I do have one Savage, an Axis in .308, that has sub par accuracy. Hoping this series pinpoints the problem, instead of just re-barreling it and putting it in a $1,000 chassis right away.
Put the barreled action in a vise, no stock, and see if it's any better. I agree with others, not to tear the rifle apart and rebarrel yet. See if you can figure out what the underlying issue is first
The biggest variable for me is the following. When backfire sent back the rifle....did he send his bipod as well? Take of the bipod and test again. It could be that the bolt holding the bipod is pushing against the barrel or influencing the stock to push against the barrel.
I'd put money on the plastic insert. I don’t think you can torque it adequately enough without damaging the insert. I would try bedding the insert and recoil lug.
Hi Gavin. All the way from South Africa......
I see all comments. Yet the issue is not seen yet.
Its not the barrel as such.
Bottom plate can be properly bedded to assist in ridgid base. Yet still issue not addressed
Had everything done. Importer had all different loads shot and told me they found an accurate load. Still not close to 4 inch groups.
Biggest issue found during lockdown when i saw a shiny part in my front action screw hole.
The front action screw has only 2 turns in the thread before it bottoms out against the threads of the barrel. This causes the action not to be fixed on the stock thus causing huge flyer show.
I identified this and gunsmith did a "blind tap" to increase the screw depth to about 6 full turns of the action screw. Made huge difference but this after 5 years of hell with 1000's of bullets through the barrel.
Eventually bought a Sako 85S.
What irritated me more was Mossberg not even concerned. There response was that they do not guarantee accuracy. The arrogance.
I have a few photos to proof my theory but anyone with a mossberg can check above detail.
I have the same rifle in .308, bought it at Academy sports for $550 in 2021. It came with a crappy Vortex 3x9 scope, which I replaced with a 4x14 Athelon with parallax adjustment. I get right about 1" groups @100yds with most factory ammo e.g. Norma Whitetail, Cor lokt, Deer Season, ect.
Find out what is wrong with the gun before doing anything !!
Then try 1 thing at a time using the factory action, barrel, and stock.
1) Start with making sure the action is true and bolt and firing pin are working as they should be, like the spring and firing pin isn't being changed in any way.
2) Put real bottom metal on the gun.
3) Bed the action and free float the barrel.
4) Last change the barrel.
Would like to see how a bedding job improves this Mossberg, if it stiffens out the plastic insert or not.
How will the weaver rails cause problems. Have weaver on a savage and its terrible so would like to know if theres something there
Good stuff. This will be interesting.
I have an insanely accurate older patriot synthetic in 375 ruger. So, I bought a 308 . I went thru 6 bullet weights and manufacturers at 100 yards. I would have been happy with 1.5 three round groups. NOT even close. PPU 150 and 165, Winchester 150, Hornady Whitetail etc 150, Norma 150, etc etc. Barely warm barrel between groups, ransom rest, never played with the 25lb torque. I have been shooting a Long time and never had a rifle shoot this bad, wait , there was a surplus 7mm military short rifle that cost 75 bucks that shot worse. So I am anxious to see if there is a remedy.
I would hope Mossberg’s engineers will be watching your accuracy project closely. They may not be able to do everything you as a customer gunsmith/engineer will do, but maybe they’ll be able to sell management on the “most bang for the buck” improvements.
Proudly made by Mossberg😭
I'd like to see the bottom metal/plastic and action all bedded without a barrel change to see how much that alone improves it.
With unknown problems check your own assumptions.
Is the crown damaged.
Is the rifling twist what they claim it to be.
(They check it with light bullets and you test it with long range high bc Bergers)
Something touching the barrel when it fires.
Does it shoot better if you single feed.
(Do the bullets get damaged from the mag)
Does the ammo group well in another rifle.
Can you put the action in a chassie and test it.
Did you take the right amount of caffeine before shooting. 😉
This will be an interesting video to follow.
Love your work 👍
I agree with the guys. Figure out why it's not shooting. See what you can do with the factory parts to make it better. Anyone can put super high-end parts on and have a very nice gun.
I'm with everyone else here: diagnose and fix the actual issues it has without going down the road of replacing major components. None of us are going to use a $400 Patriot as a platform to turn into a custom piece. Also, by diagnosing and addressing the issues it has, it would be helpful for other Patriot owners who may be having similar problems. Simply swapping in new components doesn't help anyone to solve the issues that are seemingly inherent in its design. To me, it's much more interesting to fully diagnose and solve the issue with what you've got instead of just swapping in new components to fix it. Find and eliminate all other potential causes of its inaccuracy first. Just my two cents.
I had that problem with my Browning A-bolt 3 in 30-06.
It took 2 1/2 years to get that gun sub moa.
Fusion 150 gr. Factory are adequate hunting ammo.
48.5 grain H4895 behind a 150 gr. Hornady sst works pretty good.
I got rid of the cheap plastic stock and dropped it into a Boyd classic. Put a better scope on too. Now I can trust it out to 500 yards but moose are still questionable given the 150gr projectile
I had the same issues with my Patriot 308. I made sure the action bolts were torqued to 25 in lb, and developed a IMR 4064 load shooting 168 gn Berger VLD Hunting bullets to bring it to a sub moa gun. Got a deer this past season. Not the best solution but, it worked for me.
Being a reloading channel id like to see you cast the chamber, load some ammo that best suits the chamber, and see if it will shoot then. If that doesnt help, then do some bedding work. You think doing those 2 things would get you shooting good enough for normal deer hunting.
My first thought is that the bottom plastic is not giving a good foundation. It would be inconsistent and may be flexing or compressing. It should be metal of course. Obviously, action screw torque and a bedding job should be looked into. Start with the less expensive things that are within reach if us hobbyists, and try to actually diagnose the problem. The barrel might be okay but a little rough, or have a throat issue. Check it with a bore scope. Maybe it just needs a little judicious lapping and polishing. Of course you will check the crown as well while checking the barrel. With your facilities it would be simple to recut the crown. Try to use the factory stock, as it looks fairly nice. If you do replace it, get something from Boyd's that most of us could afford. And keep scope choice reasonable. Use a common, moderately priced hunting scope in a normal magnification range like 2-7x, 3-9x, or maybe 3.5-10x. For hunting and common target shooting there is really no need for more mag than that. As several have said, do not turn it into a multi thousand dollar custom rifle. That would kind of defeat the point. Thanks. Looking forward to the project. I hear good things about the Patriot generally. I am Jonesing for a 7mm-08, and the Patriot is kind of a dark horse candidate. Most likely i will get an upper level Vanguard or a Tikka. Leaning toward the Vanguard, since if i get a 6.5x55 in the future, it would pretty much have to be a Tikka, unless i get a M77 or Win 70 on the used market.
Well please do one item at a time to see what fixes it. If u do everything at once basically u are building a new rifle with the old action. So put on a stock then shoot it, put on a new barrel then shoot it, put new trigger in then shoot it
Had the same rifle and sold it. First 10 shots were decent. Anything afterwards was like hitting the side of a barn. What I did to my rifle, was added muzzle brake, new weaver base, and added fishing weights to the stock.
About time he recircled this
I have Mossbergs. I have the MVP LR308 Thunder Ranch Kuiu Camo composite stock and medium bull barrel and it is always a nice shooter. Of course, the Mossberg 590A1 SPX (with bayonette) 12 ga shottie and I put a Magpul stock on that.
I have the Patriot in .308 W and the Patriot Predator cerakoted 7 PRC.
I did not have great accuracy with the Patriot .308 but I was also not a good shooter and was having problems with recoil. So, I think, I was getting 2 inches. I could not, at first, make that stock comfortable to me. So, I moved it into an MDT LSS Gen 2 Chassis, folding stock adapter and the SCS stock. Groups got to about 1 MOA.
Another time, I thought about moving it back to the Patriot stock for giggles. I noticed there is a gap in the rear action screw guide. In addition, the mag well is a removable piece that they are using as a shim. You can get the front action screw to about 40 in-lbs. You will never get the rear tightened down. I thought I had broken the stock so, I ordered a new one in OD Green.
Same gap. They make it that way on purpose.
And we can see here with Jim's walnut stock, they do the same thing. A removable plastic mag well that can allow movement. In the poly stock, the front action screw becomes a fulcrum for teeter tottering.
You are lucky to get on paper. Others have had good results with factory stock. Like Adam, keeping it in the factory poly stock.
Mossberg action and barrels are pretty good and using a barrel nut may help, though I don't know how they check go-no go except for every once in a while.
Contrast to the TC Arms Compass or Compass II poly stock only. It has no removable mag well. Flush fit 5 round rotary mag. And aluminum pillars for bedding. Out of the box with 150 gr that was not even the best, .54 inches.
I have emailed twice with Mossberg and they are not going to change. So, I have learned that Mossberg Patriot and Predator are rifles that you are going to simply put in another stock. The chassis is all bedding, which is the largest problem of this rifle, IMO.
90 percent says it is the stock. Put it in something with solid bedding first. Then fine tune after that.
Lets glass bed the plastic magwell and recoil lug, making sure the barrel is floated as a budget attempt to improve accuracy before breaking the bank. This would be a good start in the evolution before building a new rifle.
@Ultimatereloader, @backfire, yes I have experienced this its a savage 110 rifle package with a Simmons 3*9 scope.
1. New rifle basics trigger set to two pounds, didn't do it.
2. Scope rings , didn't do it
3. Scope Weaver bases didn't do it (rings and bases could have been tightened up more though)
4. Front action screw was too long and they left it loose a little so you could work the bolt, fixed it but didn't do it.
5. Finally looked and noticed the action housing was peened filed and sanded back flush so it would seat in the stock more firmly and noticed the stock had a little wood Chip that peeled up and was pressed in the seating surface where the action rests. Fixed that too.
6. Skinny barrel only gets three shots check✔️
7. Federal premium gmm 168 Grn hpbt✔️
Got one three shot group of .675!!! Savage says they expect a Sporter barrel to shoot 3 cold bore of 1.5"!! I'm satisfied now but don't want to go through that again!!!
That's interesting, I think I had a similar experience with my 110 Apex Hunter (Vortex Crossfire II). It was shooting big groups. I upgraded the rings to vortex pro rings, in the process realized the bases and rings were loose from the factory, so I got those torqued properly. I upgraded to a Viper scope, but it was still shooting big groups. I think next I realized the action screws were loose, torquing them helped quite a bit, but still not great. Finally, last winter I bedded the action in the same plastic stock the rifle came in and I made a cheek riser, and boom, shots way better. When I was bedding it, I noticed that there was a weird plastic nub next to the front action screw. I ground that down before bedding, and I think that was a decent part of the problem.
@@cobjread 👍. Some of these rifles seem like they were built from parts out of the reject bin. Back in the day every rifle I saw was shooting accurate without any work right out of the box. Good triggers ranging around three pounds too.
I have the same rifle chamber in 30-06. Accuracy is the same as the “problem child”. Just BAD! I feel the 30 cal chambering is just to much for what makes this a inexpensive hunting rifle. My guess, it will need at least pillars and a full length picatinny rail to help support the bolt opening. Additionally, glass bedding may be needed. In the end, the plastic guide box may be to much to over come with the 30 caliber round. Good luck and looking forward to seeing what you can do with it. A nice finish would be to add some ebony to the fore grip. A little safari look.
I agree with many of the comments. Figure out the problem. Don’t just go full blown gunsmith on the thing. Figure it out by starting small and ramp up the process as you go. Mine shoots terrible.
If budget isn't a concern then do what tickles your fancy.
SOOOOO many things to check for defect before replacing components of the platform.
Simplest path would be to pillar bed action, then bed recoil lug/chamber region of barrel, clear barrel channel of stock contact, if sporter barreled pre-load barrel with ~10# pressure.
Determining what the platform combination prefers for "jump" or optimal CBTO in regards to ammunition is getting into the weeds so I'm going to back off and wait to see how this progresses.
You’ve got to see how well you can get it shooting with the OEM barrel and stock first.
I had a Patriot in the injection molded stock. It was terrible. I restocked it in a Boyd's. It didn't shoot much better. I figured out how to add some aluminum pillars. That didn't help either. At that point it is the barrel that is garbage. Rebarreling it was not wise use of money so the rifle lives somewhere else now...
Looking frwd to learn what issues are.
You should try bedding it first. Slug the barrel and look for tight or loose spots. Check the lugs and head space. Putting a great barrel on it changes it into a custom rifle.
I wish you'd make one change at a time so you can pinpoint the issue. I'll bet the barrel is the main problem. I'd love to see you change other things (stock, scope base, etc.) to see how well you can get that barrel to shoot (then change the barrel as a last step).
There was a comment about mossbergs engineers watching..... as soon as you change stock and barrel they are off the hook. Use your skills as a custom gun maker and "spare no expense" to find and fix their problem for them. THEN if you take it up a notch cool you have a pt 2 or 3..... but almost nobody who buys a mossberg patriot is going to pay for a rebarrel. They might pay a smith for a recrown or do a home bedding job.
I question the way the plastic "bottom metal" is sandwiched between the action and stock. That seems like it would totally ruin bedding between the action and stock causing the action to be in a different place in the stock after every shot along with not allowing proper torquing of the action screws.
Accuracy also starts with a solid foundation. There was all kinds of slop in the details of this rifle.
For me it would probably go something like: barrel clearance, action screws / action seating, scope and rings, throat maintenance. I am inclined to speculate it's the scope setup.
Can’t wait till you do this project . I think the Mickey Mouse bedding around that mag box could be part of it .Since they supposedly replaced barrel there must be something in the mounting system .Just my two cents . Thanks to you both for all you bring to the community
I’ve had similar problems, although not as severe with a first generation Savage axis in .308. Even tried HUNDREDS of different loads. It still wouldn’t shoot under an inch.
I did some trigger work, and bedded the action in a Boyd’s stock. And with light and mid weight bullets it’s finally shooting at least decent, around an inch, 1.25” most days. Had a few groups under an inch. And finally with some good had loaded ammo I’d feel comfortable taking it hunting. But in its stock form, I wouldn’t and never even took it hunting.
When you tighten the rear screw the magazine was resting on the magazine. The fix is to shim the rear post so the barrel rest on the post and not the magazine. It appears that the barrel diameter is larger than diameter of the magazine box diameter. I shimed it with two tabs of duct tape.😊😊😊
Gavin, can’t say it’s THE problem, but one issue I have with the design of the Patriot was pointed out by RUclipsr USOG. The right-side action rail is really skimpy, maybe the chintziest I’ve ever seen. If the thumb-notch on a military 98 is a weak point from an accuracy standpoint because it allows the action to flex, then it seems reasonable that the flimsy side-rail on the Patriot could be a lot worse. Thanks for the continued great content.
Hello Gavin, this will be a very interesting project. There is a RUclips video somewhere online of a Mossberg Patriot rifle owner adding an EC tuner brake that really tightened up their groups, but that rifle already had a threaded barrel from the factory. Not sure if the current barrel you have on that rifle has enough material to allow for 5/8 - 24 threading. I have a recently purchased a lightly used (but significantly discounted) rifle from the brother of a local range member. A Tikka T3x chambered in 270 Win (just for the Tikka action to be completely honest as a future project) that was having similar problem, the original owner had major issues with a confirmed shot count of exactly 55 rounds using 3 different quality optics including Bushnell Forge 2-16, Leupold vx5 3-15, Burris Veracity 3-15. It is the only Tikka rifle I know of to shoot poorly, 3.5 inch to 5.5 groups. Anyhow, perhaps we viewers can provide input on some possible project ideas for you to consider. Just a "outside the box" unconventional idea to pass along for your project. It would be interesting to see this Mossberg accuracy enhancement rifle project re-barreled to 280 AI (if the Mossberg ejection port will allow for the new chambering) with a 26 inch flutted barrel and a 1 to 8.5 twist and just barely enough rifle barrel metal/material to allow for a Eric Cortina threaded 5/8-24 tunner break, with the EGW picatinny rail you showed on your video and GRS Bifrost or similar boyds style of rifle stock. Adding real bottom metal with a 10 round magazine. Sort of hybrid between long-range precision target rifle and elk/caribou/ long range hog/African plains game precision hunting rifle. The 6.8 Western, 7 SAUM, 7PRC, 7mm WSM or 300WSM would interesting as well. My vote for optic choices would be Burris Veracity PH 4-20x50 or Leupold Mark4, NightForce 2.5-8x50 all with NightForce rings. Whatever ever you choose to polish up this "turd" into precision shooter will be great and very interesting. Have a great day!
I have a 338 win mag mossberg patriot that i bought in 2019 that constantly shoots 8-12 moa with factory ammo the best its done is 250 grain hand loads at 5.5 moa i really want to see how this series goes so i can revive this rifle.
I have dealt with A Patriot Rifle in 30-06 same kind of multiple issues. The front action screw I found an issue 1/4 X 20 action screw not holding torque because it bottoms out after turning in 4 threads {industry standard is to thread into at least the diameter of the bolt you are using}, Plastic magazine housing, I wanted to totally replace with an aftermarket metal piece but was not available at the time so I came up with a method to pillar bed the front and rear action screws ( machined a solid aluminum block to fit the back action screw to take up the void in the plastic in the rear. Bedded the complete action into a Boyds AT-One stock. My results were still not stellar but I will take .860 three shot repeatable groups with Hornady Factory Whitetail 150 grain ammo. I am thankful that I do not own this rifle it was my son-in-law"s and it is back in his hands. PS I would never buy one for myself!
The problem is with the front action screw that bottoms out. Friend of mine has had his 308 fixed by a local gunsmith and now it shoots great
It would be interesting to start with the stock and a bedding. It's more within the reach of each shooter.
If that's not enough, look for solutions ranging from the cheapest to the most expensive, then move on to a barrel change.
Check the chamber dimensions, concentricity and alignment with a chamber cast, rods and lathe. Especially the neck and throat.
Check the fire formed brass to the chamber bump measure, the rifling throat bullet jump distance and straightness (blue print), the crown condition, slug the barrel for the accuracy of correct bullet dimensions. Maybe bedding
the stock well fix it??