Well, I can see it happening again, but because of the retelling of the story, when super 2 comeback There is a high possibility that they will retell the story of lazy gohan and the lesson Always be prepared, At least until we see gohan go beast mode again.
lol dont jinx it man.... 😟 would be sad if they nerd him out again. cant wait to see what toyo and toriyama do. hyped for EOZ reboot tho. i believe in you toyotoro lol. dbs is on fire atm.
I think it will happen but it won't affect gohan . Remember that End of Z Gohan trained all those years leading up to GT. So if gohan has gone back to his studies. He will balanced that with his training regimes. By the way, someone gotta draw beast end of z gohan!
Uub has god ki. If he is currently as strong as kid buu as a kid, imagine how strong he would be if he trained for a decade. His potential is even scarier than Frieza's. He's still relevant in dbz ending, especially when you consider goku fought him in base form. It's not that Uub is stronger than Moro, Broly, Gas, etc. It's that he has the most potential out of everyone in the series because he is literally the pure hearted reincarnation of kid buu. A previously mindless monster that didn't train a day in his life. As everyone should know, Goku is all about potential.
According to Super, Cabba was peak performance at base form at one point. The Saiyan race didn't transform and were scrawny whelps, but contains universal popping power all the same.
@@dansmith16exactly the reason why I dislike super powerscaling they made everyone on par with base goku if not stronger meaning god ki is so worthless and the achievements to impress a god like beerus must be so low.
The reason why Tori even did things during this 10 year timeskip, is because Japanese fans kept asking about what happened. They just couldn't accept that it was PEACE times. Buuut yeah, the End of Z is ruined. Uub sitting around with the power to destroy the universe without trying, even though he's just Kid Buu. Vegeta is a destroyer, apparently with an ability to rival UI..so Uub being better than him is wild. Ridiculous. Piccolo got a new form, yet doesn't want to fight Goku? Bogus. Gohan says now that he knows he needs to train, but then suddenly STOPS training again? Wack. Broly exists?
@@BaithNa Super is still canon because Toriyama oversaw it. Inconsistencies with the end of Z doesn't make Super non-canon. It just means there are Inconsistencies. Canonicity has nothing to do with consistency. Canonicity just refers to authenticity from the original author of a work.
I see them keeping the overall theme of "End of Z" the same but modifying it for Super to fit in. Idk why people keep thinking they're going to strictly use the original End of Z.
It’s because DBS is set before DBZ ends. Duh! This is why when you explain what happens in a timeskip, you don’t make anything too radical otherwise this debacle happens. It has to be believable for what happens next. And the end of dragon ball Z happening in DBS post Tournament of power arc is unbelievable at best.
god ki uub > jiren. it aint that had to believe... 😄😯 it just puts over oob even more tho. ya and that old fat grand kai was OP. underrated. @@kirklanyoshinaga8953
If they just gave the Ss4 upgrades too goten and trunks or even broly since he’s since it would give each current Z fighter a specific ability too call they’re own, like having UI goku, gohan or vegeta fight against a super saiyan 4 at current level would be amazing. Most importantly Someone God Please help Krillen, just give him Kaio Ken or something and 5 senzu beans he will work it out.
At this point, they might as well say there's a split in the timeline. One is where Beerus wakes up, and the other where he doesn't. Both are canon. Can this not work and coexist with one another?
In GT Goku's power level in base mode is as strong as his SSJ3 Boo Saga power which makes sense as he's been training for 20yrs before GT🤓 This is WAY better than always adding multiple transformations to the Saiyans👍👍
That's not how timeline splits work. The only way a new timeline can be created would be for someone from an already established timeline to go back in time and do something that would change a future outcome (i.e Trunks giving Goku medicine so he won't die from the heart virus). Beerus can't do it because he said that gods of destruction can't time travel. What you're describing is an "alternate universe" situation. It's the same issue with the "Fallen Hero" timeline in Legend of Zelda
Yes but Saitama claps Beerus cuz he is the GOAT with unknown durability while Beerus is cool and strong but its nothing compared to durability of Saitama have you seen OPM? Its crazy how durable Saitama is he tanked Garou gamma ray burst which is one of the most powerful events in the known universe
Bro why bring saitama who is full power is only universe lvl and talk trash just to not make any sense and be a littel kid who need someone to talk to @@Goatama1
dragon ball super doesn’t make end of z non canon.the end of z will ALWAYS be canon,it’s toriyama’s original ending and nothing can change that,if anything Dbs is non canon for contradicting the original manga
Right and I hear this a lot but lemme ask you what if Toriyama, not Toyotaro but Toriyama himself but probably in some papers online it would say that he has changed things... What then Lol?
@@danteshollowedgrounds that’s a possibility,but until proven otherwise the end of z is set in stone.and IMO toyotarou does not have the authority to reton that ending
People trying to make logic sense of it it all lol. He just messed up and it’s ok the ending of z was 30 years ago. Now we have all these new much stronger characters. He just need to erase the end of Z it was just one thrown together episode anyways just to give people something.
I’m a firm believer that Super is a separate alternate timeline. There’s just so much that doesn’t add up with the original canon ending in 1996. Some even not matching up with the original anime. Like Goku’s characterization, and Future Trunks’s blue hair.
Dont care, Toriyama said alot of things out of his ass just to change it later. Plus Super writing is god awful so its about as canon as the Sequel trilogy of Star Wars, which SW fans notoriously pretend just doesnt exist. Learn what good writing and scaling is then come back @DaThickSimmer
@DaThickSimmer "quit acting like a child" "calm yourself, its not that serious" Youre the only one taking it serious enough to throw insults and assume anger with literally no basis to the claim, kinda ironic and speaks to how poor your character is.
@@Heaven0854Toei are the ones that switched the colors, like Frieza being lavender skinned in the anime, but pink in db broly as that was the color Toriyama always had it as.
Beerus and Whis not being present is fine. They don't visit earth for everything. Uub was not the strongest at the End of Z. He had the greatest POTENTIAL at the end of Z, which is why Goku decided to test and train him. His power would only grow from there. Goku didn't need to transform at the end of Z. Presumably he mastered the technique of Ultra Instinct, but we'll see about that. He was only testing Uub, and saw no need to transform. (This is further proof Uub was not the strongest yet, reinforcing my previous point).
Thank you Unknown scholar for requesting this video, and Saiyan Scholar for making it and uploading it to YT This is what I've been thinking for a bit but ESPECIALLY since the EOZ dlc in Kakarot "There's no way Super and EOZ can coexist together in the same timeline" is what I've been thinking yet everyone I watched play it was just saying "where's ___ (insert Super idea/character/form here)" but I felt it was obvious why, they are not canon to each other (my thoughts) I'm just glad someone's actually NOTICING AND COMMENTING ON IT Thank you
It's simple, the timelines split because of beerus having the dream. 1. Everything leading up to BoG is the same. Including yo son goku and friends return! 2. Dbz and dbs timelines split when beerus wakes up prematurely. According to old kaioshin. 3. The whole zamasu/future trunks stuff, fractured the timeline even more. They went to and fro in the past/future at least 3 times. I'm wondering if merged zamasu got away in one of them?
How do the timelines split just by beerus waking up and having a dream? Beerus is a destroyer, why would he have the ability to split timelines when that doesn’t even make sense of an ability for him to even have. Hell it was Whis that could time travel, not Beerus
Toriyama didn't thought about DBS after he did End of Z. Toriyama could've done DBS taking place after the End of Z or started new dragon ball series. Plus, Toriyama didn't give DBS a lot of thought like making DBS Frieza insanely strong while GT Frieza lost to base GT Goku despite GT Frieza train, Goku was easily injury by Sorbet, making DBS Android 17 almost strong as SSB Goku while GT 17 needed to become Super 17 to defeat SS4 Goku, DBS Broly was almost strong as Gogeta Blue, while DBZ Broly lost to Super Saiyan Goku, and many more. Toriyama had years to give DBS a lot of thought, but really didn't.
@@hxppythxughts7149Toriyama kinda split Dragon Ball in multiple directions after DBZ, like DBGT, DBS, and SDBH. Goku became the strongest mortal being in the universe after defeating Frieza, but Toriyama kept making more powerful characters after each saga, and making Goku more super more powerful as well, but after the Tournament of Power, he created Moro, Granolah, Gas, and Cell Max, making them super powerful from dumb reasons, like the wish to become the strongest by giving up your lifespan, Moro easily drains Goku's Ki, and Cell Max created in less than year would be stronger than DBS Broly despite Perfect Cell being killed by SS2 teen Gohan.
I thought it was Toyotarou and Toei now and Toriyama retired or just give suggestions for them to work off with? Isn’t the story of SDBH made by a game company, Dimps, just to sell the games? I heard Toriyama had some involvement in GT but towards the end of it. He is going to handle Daima though.
Toriyama didn’t write GT, only provided creative input on the designs. GT was written by Toei. Toriyama has been giving story guidelines and ACTUALLY writing the Super films.
I feel like a lot of the stuff you said needs to be commented on. I do think it'll be pretty impossible to tie Super and end of Z together. - Beerus and Whis Don't have to be in every single scene. They could still exist. - Nothing said Uub would be more powerful than everybody at his base. Goku wants to train him to be at his peak, so then he can spar with him at his peak, it's part of his 'Martial arts master' arc. - I like your interpretation of the 5 year comment by Bulma. - With Vegeta and Goku, sometimes when they spar they only use regular Super Saiyan. - Vegeta is weird. He wins against goku but he's his own anti-hype man. Thinking to himself he didn't win the way he wanted to so it doesn't count.
Bulma having a sister the whole time as well. She was just never included in any family picture or name-dropped or have her own bedroom for 300 episodes.
Bruh they honored the original ending and added a fan service fight that’s it. I think goku’s interested in Uubs potential he doesn’t care that he isn’t that strong yet. Super could honor it by having beerus and whis on their planet back home with Broly. But I’d rather them rewrite it really. The bulma not seeing goku for 5 years quote is the biggest issue tbh
This is silly. Nothing in Z needs to be changed or retconned. There was not a single thing at the end of Z that can't been explained. Why the hell would Beerus and Whis be at the tournament? Why would Goku need to go higher than super sayian? Goku never met Uub in super, it was the kai that used his power, and Goku never knew about it. It was explained in Z that Buu could have been more powerful and was in the past so Uub would be much stronger after training. Uub DID help beat Moro and with training would be much stronger than him. By the time of Z, it was explained that Uub had incredible power so there still isn't a need to change or explain anything. What are you on about? It was explained that Uub would be one of the strongest with one of the highest potentials of all mortals. You have forgotten half the Z story and are looking for non-existent issues.
It has to be changed. Uub did not help in the sense that he was there. He had a lot of power and that’s it The issue, is that you now have to scale him to the new forms and it doesn’t make any sense for the reincarnation of Majin Buu to be as powerful as a super saiyan god.
@@BabyGirlTiny Except Dragon Ball Super has never had powerscaling. It has been broken and inconsistent from the start. It DOESN'T NEED to make sense. They will just keep milking the franchise until it finally dies. And honestly? Ill keep watching.
@@BaithNayou can say its non canon. But at the end of the day it's canon to the original dragonball manga and toriyama's story so therefore it's going to lead up to end of z because toriyama intentions with "super" is to connected the 5 year gap between buu saga and end of z.
In my Vision, everything in the "End of Z" can remain the same with having Beerus and Whis around this Time and Gohan still needs to become a Fighter and be a Scholar at the same Time, the thing I wanted to change is Bulma's Dialogue from 5 Years to be saying 5 or 6 Months in "Age 784" because the Son and Brief Families have been in Contact with each other throughout the past 5 Years around between "Age 779" and "Age 784" where all events of DBS have happened, so trying to change Bulma's Dialogue from Years into Months in EOZ's Time placement in "Age 784" can make much more Sense without Contradicting herself, but 1 other Thing I want to see change is Goku and Uub going to Train and Live in Beerus's Planet instead of living in Uub's Village or Dende's Lookout in GT.
Tbh I reckon Uub will be chosen to succeed Beerus and Goku will need to prepare him to eventually train with Whis. They’ll bait and switch Broly as a potential GoD but hell be too unstable.
@@TheTrveMothlord in the manga, they’re working w/ Broly on beerus planet controlling his rage. I believe Broly will replace beerus but Ubb, Gohan, piccolo, Goten&Trunks will be the new protectors of earth (pan too).
I think more than anything Goku was looking for a new defender of Earth. It just worked that training him fits the selfish ambition to challenge himself constantly
I see super and end of Z being seperate timelines, where Super takes place of Deity battles while end of Z takes place of basic mortal training for 10 years, explains why they didn’t have divine power in end of Z
Honestly I believe Goku didn't transform on purpose against Uub, he wanted to face that power in base form. Also the End of Z is sorta a big Transition for Goku, from being a Martial Artist to a Master, and taking Uub full time as an apprintice. In a manner, that's one of the biggest steps to truly master the martial arts, for a master may train an apprintice, they learn from the experience too.
To be fair even in the dlc vegeta says for them to have a real battle they would need an entire planet. So its likely they held back massively as to not destroy earth imo ofc.
@@ZeroYami right so even if this takes place after super they aren't going 100% as I said as they have transformations beyond that. So what are you saying?
@cbts909 Probably saying that they went all out maybe only in base so they wouldn't "risk" destroying the Earth. Even though at that point even their base could easily destroy the Earth.
the point of training with Uub isnt that Uub is stronger than all those villains or even Goku but that he has that sort of potential, and with Toriyama's retcon about Buu being a primordial being makes sense.
Another channel described Uub as someone who has a super high base level without power-ups, that's why Goku wants to fight him but also to train him as well
The interest in Uub is his potential. At age 5 even gohan was under 9,000. Uub has a starting power untrained of ssj3. His potential could potentially be the highest of all of them.
Uub isn't really a problem for end of Z. Most people on Earth don't have any concept of ki that our main cast does. Uub might have basic martial arts training from a normal Earth master, but without concept of ki control or senses, all he knows is what someone might know in reality. Let's be fair, Bruce Lee might have been impossibly good in real life, but in the Dragonball universe, he'd be a flea. Remember that when Goku fights Uub in the tournament, he actually insults him and does things to make him angry because he realizes Uub doesn't know his own fighting potential. Goku has to train Uub to be on Kid Buu's level. Potential isn't the same as actual skill and knowledge.
4:19 it’s not that difficult of an explanation. He’s barely 10 years old. A 10-year-old as strong as kid buu would obviously interest Goku, even if Goku at that point as well passed that level. I think Super is as poorly written as anybody else, but sometimes these complaints are complaints for the sake of complaining.
No way they can tie it together unless a wish is used with the super dragonballs to erase everyone memories of of Beerus and Whis but even still thats a stretch
They should have beerus tell bulma to call them when the tournament is over so they can celebrate and eat a lot of food. Seems like something his character would do
what is even dumber is how did a kaioshin have more poweer then beerus? and how did he lose against buu in teh first place? thios is why Super is garbage that ruins DBZ ending
I think it’s already explained. Anyone born with an extremely high power level naturally has greater potential like gohan and broly. Uub will be naturally the most powerful born mortal, meaning his potential will be off the charts.
honestly I wouldn't mind if they changed few things about the end of Z because super is going in a direction were scaling is going to have to be adjusted and some character motivations are changing. For example Gohan tells Goku that he understand why he should always be training and getting stronger incase another threat appears, this conflicts with nerdy Gohan in the end of Z were he hasn't trained and only has his 3 transformations. And that goes for Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. I say Goten and Trunks because there is a chance that they will be trained by there fathers and gain super Saiyan god or at least get way stronger (at least thats what it seems to be leaning toward in the manga I could be wrong they might be pushed to side again) and Piccolo for obvious reasons. But back on the topic of Z, I think some changes are going to have to happen for things to go smoothly. Personal take here, I dont like that Goku mad the desicion of training Uub to be his successor so abruptly, I would much rather they give Goku a better reason to train Uub like, train uub so he doesn't go evil again and through the training Goku then decides that Uub is worthy of being his successor that feels a lot better narrative wise to me.
Yeah the ending was kinda a “stick a fork in it” ending At The Time, but in retrospect him just running away with some kid who he assumed to be the strongest in the Universe while not knowing all the enemies that would eventually come later like everyone from either timeline branch off from the main ending of Z. Overall I really appreciate the filling they gave us in super too explain things in the end if Z like pans absurd strength, and how she also wants to Learn how too fly, and fight. All of these things are great ways too lay the pavement for the End arc of Z too be made in Super, cause I don’t think Uub will be as important as he was initially after fighting so many people him finding out about Uub during the Moro arc was like “oh? Neat I’ll have to go check him out later” where Goku is heavily motivated right now.
I feel like Uub final potential could be stated to be far surpassing super events after full training and that wouldnt require any retcon. As i dont remember them ever saying what Uub's final potential ever was, we just knew he was at least capable of kid buu levels of power.
I don't believe uub was the only challenge for goku as it could be more to the fact that goku promised to fight buu once he got reincarnated and they finally met. So it's more on the lines of keeping a promise
Wouldve liked it if Super was after the end of Z just so we could have some screen time for Uub. Wouldve been cool if he couldve fought in the Tournament of Power
Honestly, here is a route they could go, to tie into Z… Have all mortals no longer be able to tap into God Ki, nullifing SSJGod and Blue, so Goku and Begeta can no longer access their forms. The strength they acquired they can keep, but due to some circumstance, they are effectively removed from accessing God Ki, maybe something to do with Frezia Black. Afterwards, Beerus and Whis leave, and Beerus to sleep for another 30-60 years, that’ll explain why we don’t see them in end of Z. As for Kibito and Shin, maybe they re-fuse, so Kibito Kai is a thing again. That said, Goku and Begeta can still access their Ultra Instinct and Ego abilities, but it’s now taxing to their mortal limitations to use.
Fully agree GT did the right thing in going after, and not trying to squeeze retcons in Z's time gaps. I honestly don't see Super and the End of Z being in the same timeline/universe. I'd be happy to explore those time gaps, like what got Vegeta back into training/fighting after his Cell Games vow to never do it again. Heck, I'd even take Garlic Jr saga over Super. Super stains everything is touches. Nothing good came from Super. No, wait... ONE good thing came from Super: it made people appreciate GT more.
I feel like it's fine that super takes place prior to dragon ball z 10 years of peace doesn't make sense given how things typically have played out. I don't know why people have an issue with uub. uub is literally not ruined. Uub has god ki that makes uub relevant again. Uub had to have help to use the god ki so he isn't broken. Obviously there are some reasons but the ones like this aren't the issue.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Goku intentions weren't to seek a great fight with Uub but to train him to be his successor. Right? I mean I know when he's ending the fight with Buu he hopes he's brought back as a good guy so they can fight again but not as a serious challenge, even Vegeta states they would need a whole planet as their arena in the last episode if they truly fought. I could be totally wrong, but that's how I interpreted the ending of Z.
Not entirely, he said he wanted that but Vegeta was they only one that knew Kakarots true purpose. He even says the goal to Uub in excitement as they are flying off just as Vegeta figured it out.
I think that would have been the best way to follow up the story and have more consistent power scaling. And it would have been cool to see Uub try to surpass Goku
@@SaiyanScholar actually there is a 10 years gap after the buu saga which would tell that in end of Z Goku becomes a god or an Angel. Daima is actually a bonus story of super itself if we notice that kibito and supreme Kai are unfused. In GT Goku went to train after defeating omega shenron, this should cross over to MUI Goku going to train with grand priest and Vegeta taking over Beerus position as a destroyer, So we are nearing the finale of Dragon ball
I believe Super actually makes the Uub situation make even /more/ sense. Think about it. Look at Resurrection F as an example. Freeza who never trained... trained. Grew from the level of SSJ Goku on Namek to... Super Saiyan Blue level. Now we have the reincarnation of Kid Buu. Buu being a demonic entity, he never trained. But his human reincarnation? Yeah he can definitely train. And if Freeza grew that much... imagine someone like Uub who is Buu's reincarnation. His potential must be through the roof. I think it makes even more sense this way for Goku to be excited. Also, I wouldn't call them two continuities in my opinion. This DLC did not include Super, you're right. But don't forget: Bandai Namco is not Akira Toriyama, is not Toei, is not Shueisha. They don't have any clue or idea on what Toriyama has in store for how they're going to tie up the loose ends of Super into EoZ. They have 0 idea on what the plan is. So... yeah. That's why they opted to ignore it. Simple as that.
Watch Whis and Beerus say something like, “well someone has to stay behind and make sure Broly doesn’t wreck my planet.” Do I have to wait until past End of Z for Goten and Trunks to have some character development? Because they were still goofballs in End of Z, just less confident ones.
At 10:25 I think vegeta is just talking about being stronger than him because Goku always ends up stronger than him and he wants to be stronger even tho he won every fight against him he doesn’t want to be surpassed by him since he is supposed to be a low class warrior and vegeta is the prince of all saiyans so it’s just the lore tbh
I think Goku is just more likely to be interested in Uub's potential rather than his power itself. I mean he's way too strong for Earthling standards and even if he has the same power level of Cell, he can still catch Goku's attention. That is why Goku like to train him and maybe he can surpass Moro, Broly and Jiren just through training just like how strong Frieza and Android 17 got just by training.
I think the excuse for uub is quite simple. Just say that he has potential to be a great defender of universe 7, which he obviously has power for that.
I never cared about the End of Z. Always considered it part of GT (even if it's not). At this point, 2 things might happen: 1) Retcon End of Z 2) Everyone gets their memory erased, their God Ki and insanely powerful forms and techniques taken away. Beerus goes to sleep. Nothing happened.
I mean, kid Buu didn't have any apparent training yet was stronger than all past villains. They could just reuse the justification for gold freezer in resurrection F.
Now, Goku being interested in fighting Uub is not a problem - it DOESN'T mean Uub is more challenging than Vegeta - clearly that's not the case as logically a Vegeta from 10 years in the future of the buu saga even BEFORE Super was around could, if he wanted to, fly down into that arena and vaporize Uub on the spot - it would be extremely easy for him. Rather, Goku RECOGNIZES that his time as a FIGHTER is drawing to a close. By this point, at the end of Z, Goku is a grandfather, and even though he as a saiyan will stay young for another 20 or 30 years before he starts aging, he has become a true MASTER at this point - learning most of what he could learn from actual gods and rising to the level of godhood. He is looking to the next stage in life, which is passing it on to the next generation - a true prodigy, a born talent - and Uub is that even IF he could kill Uub with a finger right now. Looking at how fast Frieza gained power, a monster like Buu / Uub might well quickly close such massive power gaps in a couple decades of training - which is incidentally about what Goku has left before his body starts aging. So that's ONE answer to that issue. It's not that Uub is strong. He's nothing to them now. It's that he has enormous growth potential as the reincarnation of a magical being like that who is very, very YOUNG. Goku sees himself in Uub, and he also loves nothing more than to make bad people into good allies - training Uub is doing that with Kid buu, in a way. Just like he did with Vegeta, Tien, and Piccolo. Vegeta is MUCH more of a challenge than Uub - but that's not the POINT. Vegeta is 5 years older than Goku and both of them know they won't live forever. Oh, they COULD - they could both easily wish for immortality - but the fact they never DID says something. They don't WANT to. Think about it from Goku's perspective. To him, fighting strong opponents and surpassing his limits is EVERYTHING. But he has a unique problem: both him and Vegeta are slowly becoming too STRONG to find many more truly challenging opponents. Once they surpass Beerus...then what? Whis? That would come eventually too - given their pace of progress, within 10 years, maybe. They'd eventually surpass all but Zeno by the time their bodies age too much to fight anymore. That's ACTUALLY their fate, and it's kind of sad because once they're that strong...there's nobody above them. Nothing. Just the almighty and nothing more under that. By 10, 20 years from now they'll have left the likes of Beerus and Whis and the Grand Priest far in the dust, and they're not even close to 100 yet while those beings are hundreds of millions of years old or more. IMAGINE how strong they'd get if they made a wish to stay young for, say, 1,000 years. Who would challenge them, if they got THIS strong in only 40 odd years of life? THAT's the POINT. Goku knows he's running out of people to surpass or who will challenge him. Within 20 years, his fate is one that is standing above all others except for Vegeta and maybe Broly or Gohan, and just jostling for top position among that small group until they die. That's a fate worse than death to Goku. He'd RATHER age and die and pass ON that fire to the next generation. THAT'S why Uub is so interesting to him - and it has nothing to do with Vegeta not being "enough of a challenge" - the two are pretty much dead even at this point. It's about the future, and what comes next after Goku surpasses even the angels, which he WILL eventually, inevitably do. He's passing the torch. The SECOND way of handling it is dumber: just somehow have them stripped of all god ki by zeno or something and they're dropped down to mere mortal levels again. But that would not impact Gohan or Broly, who are that strong WITHOUT god ki, so the first way - passing the torch as the motive - makes FAR more sense. All you need is one line from Goku saying that much - that after only being alive a handful of decades, they have surpassed the gods themselves and will eventually surpass even the highest angels, and that's boring - so he wants to pass the torch on to a worthy member of the next generation, which is Uub. Gohan, Goten, sure, but Uub is much younger even than them - more time to grow and be shaped by Goku's teaching. I like to think Vegeta, too, found his own student to pass the torch to in Cabba, since Trunks doesn't appear particularly interested in getting truly powerful. Broly has enormous potential but he's THEIR age. It has to be passing the torch.
I don't understand why all of you want to tie DBZ and DBS Together, they are two sperate titles from two separate eras, they can retcon aka make up stuff to match the stories, but here is a fact Z ended long time ago, its time you just give up on matching up the endings, they are separate so stop acting like you are trying to solving a puzzle there is no puzzle, They are separate puzzles, just do yourself a favour and think of it all happening in separate dimensions. And in that context then everything is canon DB - Z - GT - SUPER and SDBH, Dragon Ball is now just pick and choose what you like.
The only way for it to make sense is if they lose god ki, And for whatever reason Beerus and Whis leave. Maybe Zeno bans them from using it after a huge final fight or something that endangered everything. It'd give extra meaning to fused ss4 Gogeta at the end of GT cause the red hair could be them tapping back into god ki through their own power despite it
@matygoo1644 this is exactly what I was thinking a good way of making GT Canon but no matter what the end of GT will always be the end of dragon ball in general
I personally believe True Ultra Instinct is Goku’s path to using UI in base. When he fights Uub, he’ll likely be in a suppressed version of that form constantly.
I don't get why people think Goku fighting in base against Uub, ties with him using UI in his base form. Goku never needed to transform against Uub. He was an inexperienced fighter, base was enough.
@@jasonone8726 I don’t think that fighting Uub in base ties into him using UI in base. I’m making that observation due to the statements in the Granola arc about him learning to better use UI without transforming, and how TUI looks more like base form than his other forms.
Seeing goku reminisce and reflect on everything that happened in z was actually very pleasing. A little sad this dlc was very short but it was a nice treat
Well Ubb would still be Goku's goal even more now when the Great Kai told Ubb to help Goku and Vegeta against Moro and unlocked his God Powers within Ubb. So why wouldn't he become even stronger? Especially! When Krillin, Dende, and Gohan all had their potential unlocked, especially Piccolo now all got stronger, so in theory Ubb should have received the same boost... If not greater seeing as it was the Great Kai to have done it.
They could maybe go about it in a way that Goku is excited about the Buu reincarnation because he has fought everyone else again or atleast knew about them. Like Vegeta, Black Freiza, Cell Max even though he didn't fight him, and now Buu in Uub form. Some Uub has a good spirt now, Goku will want to take him under his wing
well oob has huge scary amount of god ki. even freak out vegeta lol. basically old fat gran kais leftovers from after moro got sealed... the firs time. that kai was massively OP. he put away a UI level villan way back then. thats pretty epic. fat kai could have one shot buu if he wasnt already half tapped out from moro. now its passed onto oob since he is a pure soul. like goku so he can tap into that huge reserve now. with goku help and training. its hype!!
the end of Z can easily tie the story in. Goten and Trunks being not strong enough could be reason enough to have them enter in the Budokai tournament, Pan training for it. Scholar Gohan now can still be strong and focus on studying at this time. Vegeta training check, Broly could be still training with whis and beerus while goku searches for uub. Uubs powers show its more than enough and the divine god kis goodness dampened kid buus power? he wasnt accustomed to use it yet. All adds up.
@@jasonone8726 that can still be ok for him not to this time around as well. It literally can still play out as goku still uses SS transformations even in super. He will do the same against uub. Then probably bring him to beerus planet and fight with his full power
They can always use the multiverse and time line shenanigans as a cop out to do something completely new and maintain the original ending as canon too. Since Super started, I personally always figured they would build towards a reimagining of Z's ending: use the episode as a rough guide line to build on with the added information, characters, and plot. The original will always be there to enjoy, so I'd like to see how it can be redone and recontextualized with Super.
This is very easy to recon in my opinion. All they have to do is say that Ubb excites Goku because he was told of the reincarnation of buu the supreme Kai earlier before the tournament of power. Also, have Piccolo continue training with Gohan and say that he doesn’t want to fight Goku in the tournament because he would rather fight on beerus planet. Everything else should stay the same
My theory, given that there are so many inconsistencies now with Super and end of Z, is that there is going to be some sort of divergence. They've already introduced multiverse and alternate timelines, there's no reason to imagine that they can't have something happen that splits the timeline again like it did with Trunks' future. That's the only way it makes any sense, the end of Z stays in it's timeline and Super continues into it's alternate timeline.
This was kind of what I was worried about when I learned Super was set during the timeskip at the end of Z. The longer Super goes on, the harder it'll be to use the original canon ending and have it make sense. Honestly they should've just set Super after Z so they wouldn't have to worry about dovetailing it back into the finale of Z
Nobody thinks Vegeta “won” the fight in the Buu Saga. He realized Goku was stronger then gave into Babidi and powered up to SS2. He sucker punched Goku, who would’ve dog walked him as SS3 (though he’d sacrifice what little time he had to visit)
We're looking at a retcon in the making. I'm not against this, I really like Beerus, Whis and DBS Broly as characters, and how they're chilling with the other saiyans on Beerus's planet.
only thing i don’t like about end of z is how goku leaves his family for years to train hub when he could easily instant transmission back and forth but chooses to just never come back
Can't think of one thing good about super.. specially the way toyotaro ignores Z.. dont get me wrong, I think beerus has loads of potential, but story wise.. I mean, look at our beloved krillin!
@ultranecromos9915 of course I am world strongest human and gokus best mate he was the trigger for the very first super sayan transformation and in the original dragon ball series he was also the first death of one of the Zfighters. Krillin is one of the most important side characters, and he is extremely loved by true fans of the real dragon ball series.
@@relikias1 fair enough they should give krillin & yamcha the lengendary hyper human transformation, and tien the God triclops transformation. Making them androids would ruin their character progression.
@serchizzle5728 is it? Second only to the first time goku transformed.. and the first time gohan went super saying 2 against cell, or the first tyme you see goku going super sayian 3.. hell even goku going ssj4 in GTwas better..obviously in my opinion.. (I don't even like DBgt that much, though l think that compared to super is a masterpiece)
One thing still unexplained is how tf do either chichi or bulma survive the baby making process and then the whole carrying sayian babys that can just punch through them xD
I highly doubt they have any intention to uphold a statement from years ago. Its Toriyama/Shueisha/Toei/Toyptarou we are talking about here. The TSTT have never upholded their claims so far, so why should they start on that now?
I always thought he just had tons of potential I mean kid buu never trained he's a lot like freeza in that regard I always thought that because the whole fight against him Goku is just training him a little and uub managed to get as strong as kid buu at least that's what I thought and imagine kid buu being a starting stat I can see why Goku would be excited
Dragon Ball Super is not something I care about. IMO, I only consider Z. But I respect both super and GT. I honestly feel like super is the worst of the 3. But to each their own. Classic Z is my style.
pretty much, nothing really changes then just goku not using his new forms or just using the forms into base by now, the gods again nothing really changes when they usually are in their planet 90% of the time so all that really changes honestly is uub having divine power which we know he does now from moro arc
ya but what about his MUI level. is he finally at the angels level or ... not even close. if he is then it means goku journey is over at that point. cuz nothing is meant to be beyond angel level/GP right??!
End of Z Goku is called the strongest meaning in base hes above end of z beast gohan . By that point. I think he is high god of destruction level@@ssppeeaarr
End of Z. why uub is same level as goku eoz (End of Z)? Goku said that this uub is reborn and Resembles as kid buu. but a good kid. Maybe Uub is far more stronger than kid buu already. because in manga, he breaks no sweat creating a big spirit bomb to susanoo goku. how the hell did kai took this kid out of nowhere without knowing who he was before end of z??? Goku and vegeta dont know who he was in manga, so thats fine. Maybe Uub has mastered god ki?? Idk why goku said uub was his rival. Goku is so happy with that.
I think it’s important to remember that buu never trained unlike uub who probably has trained considering he knows how to fight. We know how strong freaza got from a couple months. Imagine a buu who trained and got stronger thats why goku wanted him back as a good guy, so they could train together
People care way to much about minor retcons between EoZ and Super. Beerus and Whis have no reason to show up to an Earth World Tournament. The strongest people on Earth already train on their planet, and Goku even brings people who are strong enough to them (example: Broly). Goku could still be impressed with Uub's power because of his young age and lack of proper training. Yes characters like Vegeta and Gohan are stronger, but their also a lot older, and have trained under different masters, something Uub has never done. Uub is only 10, and has never trained a day in his life, yet he has the strength to keep up with a Goku whose base exceeds his powers as a Super Saiyan 3 from when he had fought Kid Buu. Just because Goku didn't have to go all out, and just because he's met stronger people, doesn't mean he can't still be impressed by the potential of Uub. Raditz was stronger than Gohan when he arrived on Earth, does that mean everyone should just write Gohan off as perpetually beneath Raditz? No, because Gohan has incredible potential and has surpassed Raditz millions of times over. Other minor things like Bulma mentioning "five years" since she's seen Goku could easily be explained as exaggeration, a playful reference to another trip to The Room of Spirit and Time, or could just be quietly ignored without impacting the story in any meaningful way. The same tactic of quietly ignoring the smaller details that don't really matter could apply to minor cosmetic changes that can't just be explained away as a change of clothes, like Bulma's appearance. Or perhaps that could be explained by an unforseen defect in whatever treatment Doctor Hedo gives her for wrinkles. Perhaps it's linked to as of yet unseen character development for Bulma where she accepts the fact that she's aging and, in an act of acceptance, wishes to have her natural appearance restored instead of wishing for more cosmetic surgery from Shenron. The games aren't canonical to either the manga or the anime (other than Dragon Ball Online, which is exclusive to the manga continuity), so any changes they make are largely irrelevant to the actual narrative anyway, but everyone needs to remember that this dlc was made as an adaptation of the original events depicted in EoZ, with a few fights added to extend playtime, and doesn't necessarily need to line up to any events depicted in Super regardless. It doesn't even fully line up with original EoZ, hence the side quests, added dialogue, and added fights.
Yup that saying is just like another justification for the retcon dbs did to end of z imo... "That could be explained this..." "That could mean..." "Oh of course that because that makes sense in a sense..." etc etc etc and etc Good storytelling doesn't need all the gimmick of justification explaining "what should be" and "what could be" and "how that could be" since the plot itself would justify itself because there's little to no retcon at all.
@@hxppythxughts7149Yeah, my problem with Super may not be the concept of Super itself, but how easy it is nowadays to retcon everything in movies, games, and stories while fans will just eat it up. It’s like stories don’t even matter anymore. If Super came out in the 90’s after EoZ instead of GT, pretty sure it wouldn’t be popular and there would be a backlash. I’m convinced that Super is ongoing because people are bored and starved for more DragonBall/Shonen Battle content or they only care about some of the newer characters in Super who are not all bad. DB/Z was originally written as to how anime and manga was written for its time in the 80’s and 90’s so bringing it back to modern day would demand some changes and character cuts be made. I get it has to sell toys and merch and wants to be a cash cow franchise, so it’s a decision I have to accept. But I rather Super be a different timeline and at least executed some things better.
@@denizenbyday I agree that retconing can get wildly out of control, but I don't think Dragon Ball Super is anywhere near the most egregious examples. All of importance that's really changed is that characters are stronger than originally depicted, and Goku and Vegeta have new friends. We can't make assumptions about Freeza, as he still may be dealt with by EoZ. Compare this to something like the handling of the various clone characters at Marvel, or Wonder Woman and the Hawk People over at DC. I understand why people care about power scaling, but can you honestly say you care that much about Bulma's reference to "five years" since she last saw Goku, which was only brought up off-handedly in a single line, and doesn't affect the overall story in any way? Retcons aren't inherently bad, for the perfect example, look up Jason Todd's origin as red hood, or Tommy Elliott/Hush, or Mary Jane learning Peter was Spider-Man by seeing Spidey come to and from his window. These retcons were used to add depth to either the heroes, villains, or the supporting cast.
@@ssjgotenks2009 You are right in regards to DBO, and I misspoke. However, it is the only game fully confirmed canon by Akira Toriyama, and is actually a sequel to the Dragon Ball manga continuity. Most of the games are merely adaptations of said manga/the anime, or have unique stories that can't possibly fit into the main continuity.
‘That title’ yeah exactly. Thank you. I’ve said it for years and years when I saw MasakoX say “The end of Z is no longer canon! Here’s why” and I’m like “no” Maybe now that you’ve said it, people will listen. Because I don’t have big number and people will listen to big number.
There is a big gap in the Dragon Ball timeline. Because in the Broly movie, the flashback happened 41 years ago, two years before Goku was born, meaning that his age in the movie is 39. And in the Granola arc in the flashback, we go back 40 years, where we see that Goku is...
Goku is 3 years old, according to the statement of Jin, Goku's mother. I hope you talk about the matter and make us understand what is the reason for this gap, or is it just another forgetfulness from Toriyama as usual?
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
They better not have Gohan quit training again. He is in a good spot right now.
Well, I can see it happening again, but because of the retelling of the story, when super 2 comeback There is a high possibility that they will retell the story of lazy gohan and the lesson Always be prepared, At least until we see gohan go beast mode again.
I don't see it. That lesson was too painful.
Toriyama: "Oh? You like Gohan being relevant?" *pushes glasses up menacingly*
lol dont jinx it man.... 😟
would be sad if they nerd him out again. cant wait to see what toyo and toriyama do.
hyped for EOZ reboot tho. i believe in you toyotoro lol. dbs is on fire atm.
I think it will happen but it won't affect gohan . Remember that End of Z Gohan trained all those years leading up to GT. So if gohan has gone back to his studies. He will balanced that with his training regimes. By the way, someone gotta draw beast end of z gohan!
Uub has god ki. If he is currently as strong as kid buu as a kid, imagine how strong he would be if he trained for a decade. His potential is even scarier than Frieza's. He's still relevant in dbz ending, especially when you consider goku fought him in base form. It's not that Uub is stronger than Moro, Broly, Gas, etc. It's that he has the most potential out of everyone in the series because he is literally the pure hearted reincarnation of kid buu. A previously mindless monster that didn't train a day in his life. As everyone should know, Goku is all about potential.
According to Super, Cabba was peak performance at base form at one point. The Saiyan race didn't transform and were scrawny whelps, but contains universal popping power all the same.
Came over to type this exact thing. Uub has potential, that’s why Goku searched for him.
@@dansmith16exactly the reason why I dislike super powerscaling they made everyone on par with base goku if not stronger meaning god ki is so worthless and the achievements to impress a god like beerus must be so low.
The reason why Tori even did things during this 10 year timeskip, is because Japanese fans kept asking about what happened. They just couldn't accept that it was PEACE times.
Buuut yeah, the End of Z is ruined.
Uub sitting around with the power to destroy the universe without trying, even though he's just Kid Buu.
Vegeta is a destroyer, apparently with an ability to rival UI..so Uub being better than him is wild. Ridiculous.
Piccolo got a new form, yet doesn't want to fight Goku? Bogus.
Gohan says now that he knows he needs to train, but then suddenly STOPS training again? Wack.
Broly exists?
Peace?! What's that?
Buu Saga lasted 2 days 😭
@@SaiyanScholar They just don't care.
@@BaithNa Yeah, that's a stupid argument there. I'm not getting involved in that.
@@BaithNa Super is still canon because Toriyama oversaw it. Inconsistencies with the end of Z doesn't make Super non-canon. It just means there are Inconsistencies. Canonicity has nothing to do with consistency. Canonicity just refers to authenticity from the original author of a work.
@@masaomorinaga6412Right? Just because the author can't keep things straight and make a story that makes sense, doesn't mean it isn't canon. 😂
I see them keeping the overall theme of "End of Z" the same but modifying it for Super to fit in. Idk why people keep thinking they're going to strictly use the original End of Z.
i think tori will make whis n beerus cameo in the budokai watching the match and eating... lol.
soft reboot seems like what will happen tho. hyped.
It’s because DBS is set before DBZ ends. Duh! This is why when you explain what happens in a timeskip, you don’t make anything too radical otherwise this debacle happens. It has to be believable for what happens next. And the end of dragon ball Z happening in DBS post Tournament of power arc is unbelievable at best.
god ki uub > jiren.
it aint that had to believe...
😄😯
it just puts over oob even more tho.
ya and that old fat grand kai was OP.
underrated. @@kirklanyoshinaga8953
@@ssppeeaarr well we’ll never know the ending now
@@Heisenberg8100 well yeah toriyamas vision and version of it sadly...rip.
but toyo will carry it on.
So we getting Dragonball Super GT
lol hells ya so when is dat ss4 and shadow dragons arc coming....
😁
I mean an upscaled version of GT that compensates for the power leveling in Super would go kinda hard, not gonna lie
Maybe they will solve everything just like they did with all spidermans in the marvel universe. Maybe show alternate multiverse with uub , etc.
DB GTS.
If they just gave the Ss4 upgrades too goten and trunks or even broly since he’s since it would give each current Z fighter a specific ability too call they’re own, like having UI goku, gohan or vegeta fight against a super saiyan 4 at current level would be amazing. Most importantly Someone God Please help Krillen, just give him Kaio Ken or something and 5 senzu beans he will work it out.
At this point, they might as well say there's a split in the timeline. One is where Beerus wakes up, and the other where he doesn't. Both are canon. Can this not work and coexist with one another?
How exactly does Beerus change the end of Z? We barely saw much in those final chapters, and we know he's not always on earth.
In GT Goku's power level in base mode is as strong as his SSJ3 Boo Saga power which makes sense as he's been training for 20yrs before GT🤓 This is WAY better than always adding multiple transformations to the Saiyans👍👍
My head canon now is DBZ + DBZ Ending= DBGT, and DBZ - DBZ Ending + DBS= New Canon timeline
That's not how timeline splits work. The only way a new timeline can be created would be for someone from an already established timeline to go back in time and do something that would change a future outcome (i.e Trunks giving Goku medicine so he won't die from the heart virus). Beerus can't do it because he said that gods of destruction can't time travel. What you're describing is an "alternate universe" situation. It's the same issue with the "Fallen Hero" timeline in Legend of Zelda
@@milestone380 If they borrow from the game and it's lore then its possible for alternate timelines to be created through natural means.
I'd rather Beerus wake up after End of Z
So go to sleep after Black Frieza and wake up after the tournament with Uub
Yes but Saitama claps Beerus cuz he is the GOAT with unknown durability while Beerus is cool and strong but its nothing compared to durability of Saitama have you seen OPM? Its crazy how durable Saitama is he tanked Garou gamma ray burst which is one of the most powerful events in the known universe
great idea
Bro why bring saitama who is full power is only universe lvl and talk trash just to not make any sense and be a littel kid who need someone to talk to @@Goatama1
@@BaithNa It’s Canon, no qualms about it.
dragon ball super doesn’t make end of z non canon.the end of z will ALWAYS be canon,it’s toriyama’s original ending and nothing can change that,if anything Dbs is non canon for contradicting the original manga
Right and I hear this a lot but lemme ask you what if Toriyama, not Toyotaro but Toriyama himself but probably in some papers online it would say that he has changed things... What then Lol?
Its called retcon
@@danteshollowedgrounds that’s a possibility,but until proven otherwise the end of z is set in stone.and IMO toyotarou does not have the authority to reton that ending
@BaithNa it's written by toriyama himself and is stated to be the canonical continuation by him. You do not decide what is canon.
@@Handyrandy2233 Oh yeah definitely not and I agree.
I’m calling it now. Beerus will be taking one his infamous “multi year long naps” during this tournament.
Beerus isn't always on earth.
@Zamamasu Well, he hasn't been on earth since Moro.
We’re beating our heads over continuities, in a series Toriyama had clearly “Written by the seat of his pants”.
People trying to make logic sense of it it all lol. He just messed up and it’s ok the ending of z was 30 years ago. Now we have all these new much stronger characters. He just need to erase the end of Z it was just one thrown together episode anyways just to give people something.
@@Cyntdarlingthe end of Z is an continuation for Gt
@@TreFazo it’s non cannon so I’m not counting it plus I don’t like Dbgt
@@Cyntdarling lol ok? They didn’t add the end of z to be a cannon continuation you do realize that right
@@Cyntdarling the game doesn’t follow canon rules
I’m a firm believer that Super is a separate alternate timeline. There’s just so much that doesn’t add up with the original canon ending in 1996. Some even not matching up with the original anime. Like Goku’s characterization, and Future Trunks’s blue hair.
Also trunks had blue hair in z aswell.
They kept switching his colors multiple times you can see this in the manga
Dont care, Toriyama said alot of things out of his ass just to change it later. Plus Super writing is god awful so its about as canon as the Sequel trilogy of Star Wars, which SW fans notoriously pretend just doesnt exist. Learn what good writing and scaling is then come back @DaThickSimmer
@DaThickSimmer "quit acting like a child" "calm yourself, its not that serious"
Youre the only one taking it serious enough to throw insults and assume anger with literally no basis to the claim, kinda ironic and speaks to how poor your character is.
@@Heaven0854Trunks never had blue hair in the Z anime
@@Heaven0854Toei are the ones that switched the colors, like Frieza being lavender skinned in the anime, but pink in db broly as that was the color Toriyama always had it as.
Beerus and Whis not being present is fine. They don't visit earth for everything.
Uub was not the strongest at the End of Z. He had the greatest POTENTIAL at the end of Z, which is why Goku decided to test and train him. His power would only grow from there.
Goku didn't need to transform at the end of Z. Presumably he mastered the technique of Ultra Instinct, but we'll see about that. He was only testing Uub, and saw no need to transform. (This is further proof Uub was not the strongest yet, reinforcing my previous point).
Thank you
Unknown scholar for requesting this video, and Saiyan Scholar for making it and uploading it to YT
This is what I've been thinking for a bit but ESPECIALLY since the EOZ dlc in Kakarot
"There's no way Super and EOZ can coexist together in the same timeline" is what I've been thinking yet everyone I watched play it was just saying "where's ___ (insert Super idea/character/form here)" but I felt it was obvious why, they are not canon to each other (my thoughts)
I'm just glad someone's actually NOTICING AND COMMENTING ON IT
Thank you
10 years of peace. Ah yes, so 10 years after Cell Max, got it.
It's simple, the timelines split because of beerus having the dream.
1. Everything leading up to BoG is the same. Including yo son goku and friends return!
2. Dbz and dbs timelines split when beerus wakes up prematurely. According to old kaioshin.
3. The whole zamasu/future trunks stuff, fractured the timeline even more. They went to and fro in the past/future at least 3 times. I'm wondering if merged zamasu got away in one of them?
How do the timelines split just by beerus waking up and having a dream? Beerus is a destroyer, why would he have the ability to split timelines when that doesn’t even make sense of an ability for him to even have. Hell it was Whis that could time travel, not Beerus
Toriyama didn't thought about DBS after he did End of Z. Toriyama could've done DBS taking place after the End of Z or started new dragon ball series. Plus, Toriyama didn't give DBS a lot of thought like making DBS Frieza insanely strong while GT Frieza lost to base GT Goku despite GT Frieza train, Goku was easily injury by Sorbet, making DBS Android 17 almost strong as SSB Goku while GT 17 needed to become Super 17 to defeat SS4 Goku, DBS Broly was almost strong as Gogeta Blue, while DBZ Broly lost to Super Saiyan Goku, and many more. Toriyama had years to give DBS a lot of thought, but really didn't.
Lol I feel like the whole modern dragonball just an afterthought to make more money... and divide its fans
@@hxppythxughts7149Toriyama kinda split Dragon Ball in multiple directions after DBZ, like DBGT, DBS, and SDBH. Goku became the strongest mortal being in the universe after defeating Frieza, but Toriyama kept making more powerful characters after each saga, and making Goku more super more powerful as well, but after the Tournament of Power, he created Moro, Granolah, Gas, and Cell Max, making them super powerful from dumb reasons, like the wish to become the strongest by giving up your lifespan, Moro easily drains Goku's Ki, and Cell Max created in less than year would be stronger than DBS Broly despite Perfect Cell being killed by SS2 teen Gohan.
I thought it was Toyotarou and Toei now and Toriyama retired or just give suggestions for them to work off with? Isn’t the story of SDBH made by a game company, Dimps, just to sell the games? I heard Toriyama had some involvement in GT but towards the end of it. He is going to handle Daima though.
Toriyama didn’t write GT, only provided creative input on the designs. GT was written by Toei.
Toriyama has been giving story guidelines and ACTUALLY writing the Super films.
gt literally isn’t canon lmfao
I feel like a lot of the stuff you said needs to be commented on. I do think it'll be pretty impossible to tie Super and end of Z together.
- Beerus and Whis Don't have to be in every single scene. They could still exist.
- Nothing said Uub would be more powerful than everybody at his base. Goku wants to train him to be at his peak, so then he can spar with him at his peak, it's part of his 'Martial arts master' arc.
- I like your interpretation of the 5 year comment by Bulma.
- With Vegeta and Goku, sometimes when they spar they only use regular Super Saiyan.
- Vegeta is weird. He wins against goku but he's his own anti-hype man. Thinking to himself he didn't win the way he wanted to so it doesn't count.
Bulma having a sister the whole time as well. She was just never included in any family picture or name-dropped or have her own bedroom for 300 episodes.
@dansmith16 Yeah it feels like she was disowned by the family or something
....... or was just a retcon
Super is an alternate timeline anyways🤓
Super is not an alternate timeline and is canon@@great159
@@great159 it’s not Z is supposedly meant to be the definitive ending
Bruh they honored the original ending and added a fan service fight that’s it.
I think goku’s interested in Uubs potential he doesn’t care that he isn’t that strong yet.
Super could honor it by having beerus and whis on their planet back home with Broly. But I’d rather them rewrite it really.
The bulma not seeing goku for 5 years quote is the biggest issue tbh
This is silly. Nothing in Z needs to be changed or retconned. There was not a single thing at the end of Z that can't been explained. Why the hell would Beerus and Whis be at the tournament? Why would Goku need to go higher than super sayian? Goku never met Uub in super, it was the kai that used his power, and Goku never knew about it. It was explained in Z that Buu could have been more powerful and was in the past so Uub would be much stronger after training. Uub DID help beat Moro and with training would be much stronger than him. By the time of Z, it was explained that Uub had incredible power so there still isn't a need to change or explain anything. What are you on about? It was explained that Uub would be one of the strongest with one of the highest potentials of all mortals. You have forgotten half the Z story and are looking for non-existent issues.
You are forcingly trying to make it work, is not organic, as a good continuity should be
It has to be changed. Uub did not help in the sense that he was there. He had a lot of power and that’s it
The issue, is that you now have to scale him to the new forms and it doesn’t make any sense for the reincarnation of Majin Buu to be as powerful as a super saiyan god.
@@BabyGirlTiny Except Dragon Ball Super has never had powerscaling. It has been broken and inconsistent from the start. It DOESN'T NEED to make sense. They will just keep milking the franchise until it finally dies.
And honestly? Ill keep watching.
Great video
Z's ending Been Ruined in so many ways already, personally IDC if they "Fix" it.
@@BaithNa true
@@BaithNa yes it is
@@BaithNa GT is not canon, thankfully. Super was made by Toriama. At least with much involvement.
@@BaithNayou can say its non canon. But at the end of the day it's canon to the original dragonball manga and toriyama's story so therefore it's going to lead up to end of z because toriyama intentions with "super" is to connected the 5 year gap between buu saga and end of z.
@@danielschoch4881Damn I don’t think Toriyama should get involved anymore
In my Vision, everything in the "End of Z" can remain the same with having Beerus and Whis around this Time and Gohan still needs to become a Fighter and be a Scholar at the same Time, the thing I wanted to change is Bulma's Dialogue from 5 Years to be saying 5 or 6 Months in "Age 784" because the Son and Brief Families have been in Contact with each other throughout the past 5 Years around between "Age 779" and "Age 784" where all events of DBS have happened, so trying to change Bulma's Dialogue from Years into Months in EOZ's Time placement in "Age 784" can make much more Sense without Contradicting herself, but 1 other Thing I want to see change is Goku and Uub going to Train and Live in Beerus's Planet instead of living in Uub's Village or Dende's Lookout in GT.
Tbh I reckon Uub will be chosen to succeed Beerus and Goku will need to prepare him to eventually train with Whis. They’ll bait and switch Broly as a potential GoD but hell be too unstable.
@@TheTrveMothlord in the manga, they’re working w/ Broly on beerus planet controlling his rage. I believe Broly will replace beerus but Ubb, Gohan, piccolo, Goten&Trunks will be the new protectors of earth (pan too).
@@Broadkill54
Nah, broly is just learning control but not God ki. Uub already has God ki
I think nobody is gonna replace beers at all.
I think more than anything Goku was looking for a new defender of Earth. It just worked that training him fits the selfish ambition to challenge himself constantly
I see super and end of Z being seperate timelines, where Super takes place of Deity battles while end of Z takes place of basic mortal training for 10 years, explains why they didn’t have divine power in end of Z
Honestly I believe Goku didn't transform on purpose against Uub, he wanted to face that power in base form. Also the End of Z is sorta a big Transition for Goku, from being a Martial Artist to a Master, and taking Uub full time as an apprintice. In a manner, that's one of the biggest steps to truly master the martial arts, for a master may train an apprintice, they learn from the experience too.
Base form was enough against Uub.
To be fair even in the dlc vegeta says for them to have a real battle they would need an entire planet.
So its likely they held back massively as to not destroy earth imo ofc.
they went all out, they just controlled the amount of excess energy from their battle enough to keep the earth in tact.
@@ZeroYami right so even if this takes place after super they aren't going 100% as I said as they have transformations beyond that.
So what are you saying?
@cbts909 Probably saying that they went all out maybe only in base so they wouldn't "risk" destroying the Earth. Even though at that point even their base could easily destroy the Earth.
@@haditahir9608 thats completely reasonable and they likely did and vegetas statement supports that. But they def had to hold back regardless.
That’s not canon.
I've probably said this before, but I really appreciate the Budokai soundtrack. So nostalgic.
the point of training with Uub isnt that Uub is stronger than all those villains or even Goku but that he has that sort of potential, and with Toriyama's retcon about Buu being a primordial being makes sense.
>retcon
What?
Another channel described Uub as someone who has a super high base level without power-ups, that's why Goku wants to fight him but also to train him as well
dude!!! you literally said what I explained to my buddies a long time ago! yes!! validated!!
The interest in Uub is his potential. At age 5 even gohan was under 9,000. Uub has a starting power untrained of ssj3. His potential could potentially be the highest of all of them.
Uub isn't really a problem for end of Z. Most people on Earth don't have any concept of ki that our main cast does. Uub might have basic martial arts training from a normal Earth master, but without concept of ki control or senses, all he knows is what someone might know in reality. Let's be fair, Bruce Lee might have been impossibly good in real life, but in the Dragonball universe, he'd be a flea. Remember that when Goku fights Uub in the tournament, he actually insults him and does things to make him angry because he realizes Uub doesn't know his own fighting potential. Goku has to train Uub to be on Kid Buu's level. Potential isn't the same as actual skill and knowledge.
4:19 it’s not that difficult of an explanation. He’s barely 10 years old. A 10-year-old as strong as kid buu would obviously interest Goku, even if Goku at that point as well passed that level. I think Super is as poorly written as anybody else, but sometimes these complaints are complaints for the sake of complaining.
No way they can tie it together unless a wish is used with the super dragonballs to erase everyone memories of of Beerus and Whis but even still thats a stretch
Same think I said unless we get another time travel
i feel like dragonball daima hype maybe related to EOZ...
guess we have to wait and see.
It's called a retcon buddy lol
Why? I went through a quick read of 519/520 just now and there's no reason for them to mention Beerus and Whis.
FOR REAL! Whis and Beerus is the problem
I’ve begun to view Dragon Ball as a bunch of different timelines. Like GT is the universe where Beerus stays asleep or doesn’t have a SSJG dream.
We are getting a EOZ Remake.
I hope we get a GT Remake as well, with better Animation, more Expanded Stories and connection to Canon.
But rhe animation for GT was peak. The animation style for Super is lame
@@SageOfLimitlessHandsAnimation for GT wasn't peak. 😂
@jasonone8726 it was though. Same style as Z which most will agree is better than Super in every regard
@@SageOfLimitlessHands You need to learn the difference between art and animation. The animation wasn't that good.
@@jasonone8726 it was though
They should have beerus tell bulma to call them when the tournament is over so they can celebrate and eat a lot of food. Seems like something his character would do
what is even dumber is how did a kaioshin have more poweer then beerus? and how did he lose against buu in teh first place? thios is why Super is garbage that ruins DBZ ending
I have a theory why uub could be an interest to goku is because of his dormant god ki that kid buu had, mentioned in the flashback in moro arc
Your voice sounds like you're making up lore with confidence
I think it’s already explained. Anyone born with an extremely high power level naturally has greater potential like gohan and broly. Uub will be naturally the most powerful born mortal, meaning his potential will be off the charts.
honestly I wouldn't mind if they changed few things about the end of Z because super is going in a direction were scaling is going to have to be adjusted and some character motivations are changing. For example Gohan tells Goku that he understand why he should always be training and getting stronger incase another threat appears, this conflicts with nerdy Gohan in the end of Z were he hasn't trained and only has his 3 transformations. And that goes for Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. I say Goten and Trunks because there is a chance that they will be trained by there fathers and gain super Saiyan god or at least get way stronger (at least thats what it seems to be leaning toward in the manga I could be wrong they might be pushed to side again) and Piccolo for obvious reasons. But back on the topic of Z, I think some changes are going to have to happen for things to go smoothly.
Personal take here, I dont like that Goku mad the desicion of training Uub to be his successor so abruptly, I would much rather they give Goku a better reason to train Uub like, train uub so he doesn't go evil again and through the training Goku then decides that Uub is worthy of being his successor that feels a lot better narrative wise to me.
Yeah the ending was kinda a “stick a fork in it” ending At The Time, but in retrospect him just running away with some kid who he assumed to be the strongest in the Universe while not knowing all the enemies that would eventually come later like everyone from either timeline branch off from the main ending of Z. Overall I really appreciate the filling they gave us in super too explain things in the end if Z like pans absurd strength, and how she also wants to Learn how too fly, and fight. All of these things are great ways too lay the pavement for the End arc of Z too be made in Super, cause I don’t think Uub will be as important as he was initially after fighting so many people him finding out about Uub during the Moro arc was like “oh? Neat I’ll have to go check him out later” where Goku is heavily motivated right now.
I feel like Uub final potential could be stated to be far surpassing super events after full training and that wouldnt require any retcon. As i dont remember them ever saying what Uub's final potential ever was, we just knew he was at least capable of kid buu levels of power.
I think a movie to tie everything up as if characters current plans and etc how there living would be fine
I only could imagine what kid buu is like at full power
I don't believe uub was the only challenge for goku as it could be more to the fact that goku promised to fight buu once he got reincarnated and they finally met. So it's more on the lines of keeping a promise
Agreed
I guess this seems silly now that we've lost Toriyama.
Wouldve liked it if Super was after the end of Z just so we could have some screen time for Uub. Wouldve been cool if he couldve fought in the Tournament of Power
Re watched DBZ movies all wknd 🔥🔥🔥
Honestly, here is a route they could go, to tie into Z…
Have all mortals no longer be able to tap into God Ki, nullifing SSJGod and Blue, so Goku and Begeta can no longer access their forms. The strength they acquired they can keep, but due to some circumstance, they are effectively removed from accessing God Ki, maybe something to do with Frezia Black.
Afterwards, Beerus and Whis leave, and Beerus to sleep for another 30-60 years, that’ll explain why we don’t see them in end of Z.
As for Kibito and Shin, maybe they re-fuse, so Kibito Kai is a thing again.
That said, Goku and Begeta can still access their Ultra Instinct and Ego abilities, but it’s now taxing to their mortal limitations to use.
Fully agree GT did the right thing in going after, and not trying to squeeze retcons in Z's time gaps. I honestly don't see Super and the End of Z being in the same timeline/universe.
I'd be happy to explore those time gaps, like what got Vegeta back into training/fighting after his Cell Games vow to never do it again. Heck, I'd even take Garlic Jr saga over Super. Super stains everything is touches. Nothing good came from Super. No, wait... ONE good thing came from Super: it made people appreciate GT more.
I feel like it's fine that super takes place prior to dragon ball z 10 years of peace doesn't make sense given how things typically have played out. I don't know why people have an issue with uub. uub is literally not ruined. Uub has god ki that makes uub relevant again. Uub had to have help to use the god ki so he isn't broken. Obviously there are some reasons but the ones like this aren't the issue.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Goku intentions weren't to seek a great fight with Uub but to train him to be his successor. Right? I mean I know when he's ending the fight with Buu he hopes he's brought back as a good guy so they can fight again but not as a serious challenge, even Vegeta states they would need a whole planet as their arena in the last episode if they truly fought. I could be totally wrong, but that's how I interpreted the ending of Z.
Not entirely, he said he wanted that but Vegeta was they only one that knew Kakarots true purpose. He even says the goal to Uub in excitement as they are flying off just as Vegeta figured it out.
I think that would have been the best way to follow up the story and have more consistent power scaling. And it would have been cool to see Uub try to surpass Goku
@@wykellbrown6360Yh too bad gt pushed uub to the side after the baby arc. Would have been sick to see ssj4 goku vs majuub.
@@SaiyanScholar actually there is a 10 years gap after the buu saga which would tell that in end of Z Goku becomes a god or an Angel. Daima is actually a bonus story of super itself if we notice that kibito and supreme Kai are unfused. In GT Goku went to train after defeating omega shenron, this should cross over to MUI Goku going to train with grand priest and Vegeta taking over Beerus position as a destroyer, So we are nearing the finale of Dragon ball
I believe Super actually makes the Uub situation make even /more/ sense. Think about it. Look at Resurrection F as an example. Freeza who never trained... trained. Grew from the level of SSJ Goku on Namek to... Super Saiyan Blue level. Now we have the reincarnation of Kid Buu. Buu being a demonic entity, he never trained. But his human reincarnation? Yeah he can definitely train. And if Freeza grew that much... imagine someone like Uub who is Buu's reincarnation. His potential must be through the roof. I think it makes even more sense this way for Goku to be excited.
Also, I wouldn't call them two continuities in my opinion. This DLC did not include Super, you're right. But don't forget: Bandai Namco is not Akira Toriyama, is not Toei, is not Shueisha. They don't have any clue or idea on what Toriyama has in store for how they're going to tie up the loose ends of Super into EoZ. They have 0 idea on what the plan is. So... yeah. That's why they opted to ignore it. Simple as that.
and that's why I prefer GT as the better continuation to DBZ
DBS isn't really a continuation to Z.
Super is an alternate timeline🤓
Watch Whis and Beerus say something like, “well someone has to stay behind and make sure Broly doesn’t wreck my planet.”
Do I have to wait until past End of Z for Goten and Trunks to have some character development? Because they were still goofballs in End of Z, just less confident ones.
Yall need to leave that end of z thing alone. They obviously going to change the events at the end. Who wants to see the same thing we already saw?
@@BaithNanah they can change it. It doesn't matter if it was here
@BaithNa it's changed bro. Hate to tell you.
@@BaithNa doesn't matter they can change it
You sound like someone who loves the new Marvel movies
@@BaithNa that's not how canon works. Retcons are a thing. Akira Toriyama decides what's canon, not you.
At 10:25 I think vegeta is just talking about being stronger than him because Goku always ends up stronger than him and he wants to be stronger even tho he won every fight against him he doesn’t want to be surpassed by him since he is supposed to be a low class warrior and vegeta is the prince of all saiyans so it’s just the lore tbh
GT is the better continuation. Sorry not sorry.
@@theoverseer1775 wheres the objectivity here this is all subjective
I think Goku is just more likely to be interested in Uub's potential rather than his power itself. I mean he's way too strong for Earthling standards and even if he has the same power level of Cell, he can still catch Goku's attention. That is why Goku like to train him and maybe he can surpass Moro, Broly and Jiren just through training just like how strong Frieza and Android 17 got just by training.
I think the excuse for uub is quite simple. Just say that he has potential to be a great defender of universe 7, which he obviously has power for that.
I never cared about the End of Z. Always considered it part of GT (even if it's not). At this point, 2 things might happen:
1) Retcon End of Z
2) Everyone gets their memory erased, their God Ki and insanely powerful forms and techniques taken away. Beerus goes to sleep. Nothing happened.
I mean, kid Buu didn't have any apparent training yet was stronger than all past villains. They could just reuse the justification for gold freezer in resurrection F.
Now, Goku being interested in fighting Uub is not a problem - it DOESN'T mean Uub is more challenging than Vegeta - clearly that's not the case as logically a Vegeta from 10 years in the future of the buu saga even BEFORE Super was around could, if he wanted to, fly down into that arena and vaporize Uub on the spot - it would be extremely easy for him. Rather, Goku RECOGNIZES that his time as a FIGHTER is drawing to a close. By this point, at the end of Z, Goku is a grandfather, and even though he as a saiyan will stay young for another 20 or 30 years before he starts aging, he has become a true MASTER at this point - learning most of what he could learn from actual gods and rising to the level of godhood. He is looking to the next stage in life, which is passing it on to the next generation - a true prodigy, a born talent - and Uub is that even IF he could kill Uub with a finger right now. Looking at how fast Frieza gained power, a monster like Buu / Uub might well quickly close such massive power gaps in a couple decades of training - which is incidentally about what Goku has left before his body starts aging.
So that's ONE answer to that issue. It's not that Uub is strong. He's nothing to them now. It's that he has enormous growth potential as the reincarnation of a magical being like that who is very, very YOUNG. Goku sees himself in Uub, and he also loves nothing more than to make bad people into good allies - training Uub is doing that with Kid buu, in a way. Just like he did with Vegeta, Tien, and Piccolo. Vegeta is MUCH more of a challenge than Uub - but that's not the POINT. Vegeta is 5 years older than Goku and both of them know they won't live forever. Oh, they COULD - they could both easily wish for immortality - but the fact they never DID says something. They don't WANT to. Think about it from Goku's perspective. To him, fighting strong opponents and surpassing his limits is EVERYTHING. But he has a unique problem: both him and Vegeta are slowly becoming too STRONG to find many more truly challenging opponents. Once they surpass Beerus...then what? Whis? That would come eventually too - given their pace of progress, within 10 years, maybe. They'd eventually surpass all but Zeno by the time their bodies age too much to fight anymore. That's ACTUALLY their fate, and it's kind of sad because once they're that strong...there's nobody above them. Nothing. Just the almighty and nothing more under that. By 10, 20 years from now they'll have left the likes of Beerus and Whis and the Grand Priest far in the dust, and they're not even close to 100 yet while those beings are hundreds of millions of years old or more. IMAGINE how strong they'd get if they made a wish to stay young for, say, 1,000 years. Who would challenge them, if they got THIS strong in only 40 odd years of life?
THAT's the POINT. Goku knows he's running out of people to surpass or who will challenge him. Within 20 years, his fate is one that is standing above all others except for Vegeta and maybe Broly or Gohan, and just jostling for top position among that small group until they die. That's a fate worse than death to Goku. He'd RATHER age and die and pass ON that fire to the next generation. THAT'S why Uub is so interesting to him - and it has nothing to do with Vegeta not being "enough of a challenge" - the two are pretty much dead even at this point. It's about the future, and what comes next after Goku surpasses even the angels, which he WILL eventually, inevitably do. He's passing the torch.
The SECOND way of handling it is dumber: just somehow have them stripped of all god ki by zeno or something and they're dropped down to mere mortal levels again. But that would not impact Gohan or Broly, who are that strong WITHOUT god ki, so the first way - passing the torch as the motive - makes FAR more sense.
All you need is one line from Goku saying that much - that after only being alive a handful of decades, they have surpassed the gods themselves and will eventually surpass even the highest angels, and that's boring - so he wants to pass the torch on to a worthy member of the next generation, which is Uub. Gohan, Goten, sure, but Uub is much younger even than them - more time to grow and be shaped by Goku's teaching. I like to think Vegeta, too, found his own student to pass the torch to in Cabba, since Trunks doesn't appear particularly interested in getting truly powerful. Broly has enormous potential but he's THEIR age.
It has to be passing the torch.
I don't understand why all of you want to tie DBZ and DBS Together, they are two sperate titles from two separate eras, they can retcon aka make up stuff to match the stories, but here is a fact Z ended long time ago, its time you just give up on matching up the endings, they are separate so stop acting like you are trying to solving a puzzle there is no puzzle, They are separate puzzles, just do yourself a favour and think of it all happening in separate dimensions. And in that context then everything is canon DB - Z - GT - SUPER and SDBH, Dragon Ball is now just pick and choose what you like.
8:37 Has every character who is in some way had an impact of the series except for Lunch. She was there since the OG.
The only way for it to make sense is if they lose god ki, And for whatever reason Beerus and Whis leave. Maybe Zeno bans them from using it after a huge final fight or something that endangered everything. It'd give extra meaning to fused ss4 Gogeta at the end of GT cause the red hair could be them tapping back into god ki through their own power despite it
@matygoo1644 this is exactly what I was thinking a good way of making GT Canon but no matter what the end of GT will always be the end of dragon ball in general
I personally believe True Ultra Instinct is Goku’s path to using UI in base. When he fights Uub, he’ll likely be in a suppressed version of that form constantly.
no whis said in th dbs manga sivkler hair ui is steel the strognst form
@@ssjgotenks2009 Yes, but TUI is in all likelihood a stepping stone on the road towards Internal Ultra Instinct, perfecting it in base.
I don't get why people think Goku fighting in base against Uub, ties with him using UI in his base form. Goku never needed to transform against Uub. He was an inexperienced fighter, base was enough.
@@jasonone8726
I don’t think that fighting Uub in base ties into him using UI in base.
I’m making that observation due to the statements in the Granola arc about him learning to better use UI without transforming, and how TUI looks more like base form than his other forms.
It's so funny "winning" means everything to Vegeta but Goku is like "whatever bro".
Seeing goku reminisce and reflect on everything that happened in z was actually very pleasing. A little sad this dlc was very short but it was a nice treat
Theyre going to have to rewrite it. Maybe they could make an adaptation of it with beerus and whis and the others.
I think a big thing people miss is Uub is human with the power level of kid buu. No trasformations no nothin.
Well Ubb would still be Goku's goal even more now when the Great Kai told Ubb to help Goku and Vegeta against Moro and unlocked his God Powers within Ubb.
So why wouldn't he become even stronger? Especially! When Krillin, Dende, and Gohan all had their potential unlocked, especially Piccolo now all got stronger, so in theory Ubb should have received the same boost... If not greater seeing as it was the Great Kai to have done it.
They could maybe go about it in a way that Goku is excited about the Buu reincarnation because he has fought everyone else again or atleast knew about them. Like Vegeta, Black Freiza, Cell Max even though he didn't fight him, and now Buu in Uub form. Some Uub has a good spirt now, Goku will want to take him under his wing
well oob has huge scary amount of god ki. even freak out vegeta lol. basically old fat gran kais leftovers from after moro got sealed... the firs time. that kai was massively OP. he put away a UI level villan way back then.
thats pretty epic. fat kai could have one shot buu if he wasnt already half tapped out from moro.
now its passed onto oob since he is a pure soul. like goku so he can tap into that huge reserve now. with
goku help and training. its hype!!
I feel like they might reboot the eoz and make it a whole arc on its own
the end of Z can easily tie the story in. Goten and Trunks being not strong enough could be reason enough to have them enter in the Budokai tournament, Pan training for it. Scholar Gohan now can still be strong and focus on studying at this time. Vegeta training check, Broly could be still training with whis and beerus while goku searches for uub. Uubs powers show its more than enough and the divine god kis goodness dampened kid buus power? he wasnt accustomed to use it yet. All adds up.
Gohan didn't even enter the Tournament, that's the problem.
@@jasonone8726 that can still be ok for him not to this time around as well. It literally can still play out as goku still uses SS transformations even in super. He will do the same against uub. Then probably bring him to beerus planet and fight with his full power
They can always use the multiverse and time line shenanigans as a cop out to do something completely new and maintain the original ending as canon too. Since Super started, I personally always figured they would build towards a reimagining of Z's ending: use the episode as a rough guide line to build on with the added information, characters, and plot. The original will always be there to enjoy, so I'd like to see how it can be redone and recontextualized with Super.
We have like 3 versions of Battle of Gods, I don`t understand why we can`t have multiple versions of the end of Z
We have different versions of Super. When it comes to the original manga, we can't have different versions of that.
This is very easy to recon in my opinion. All they have to do is say that Ubb excites Goku because he was told of the reincarnation of buu the supreme Kai earlier before the tournament of power.
Also, have Piccolo continue training with Gohan and say that he doesn’t want to fight Goku in the tournament because he would rather fight on beerus planet.
Everything else should stay the same
I couldn't care less. I'm just thankful for the good times along the way.
My theory, given that there are so many inconsistencies now with Super and end of Z, is that there is going to be some sort of divergence. They've already introduced multiverse and alternate timelines, there's no reason to imagine that they can't have something happen that splits the timeline again like it did with Trunks' future. That's the only way it makes any sense, the end of Z stays in it's timeline and Super continues into it's alternate timeline.
This was kind of what I was worried about when I learned Super was set during the timeskip at the end of Z. The longer Super goes on, the harder it'll be to use the original canon ending and have it make sense. Honestly they should've just set Super after Z so they wouldn't have to worry about dovetailing it back into the finale of Z
Nobody thinks Vegeta “won” the fight in the Buu Saga. He realized Goku was stronger then gave into Babidi and powered up to SS2. He sucker punched Goku, who would’ve dog walked him as SS3 (though he’d sacrifice what little time he had to visit)
We're looking at a retcon in the making.
I'm not against this, I really like Beerus, Whis and DBS Broly as characters, and how they're chilling with the other saiyans on Beerus's planet.
only thing i don’t like about end of z is how goku leaves his family for years to train hub when he could easily instant transmission back and forth but chooses to just never come back
there nothing wrong with it
Can't think of one thing good about super.. specially the way toyotaro ignores Z.. dont get me wrong, I think beerus has loads of potential, but story wise.. I mean, look at our beloved krillin!
Your worried about krilllin?
@ultranecromos9915 of course I am world strongest human and gokus best mate he was the trigger for the very first super sayan transformation and in the original dragon ball series he was also the first death of one of the Zfighters. Krillin is one of the most important side characters, and he is extremely loved by true fans of the real dragon ball series.
@@relikias1 fair enough they should give krillin & yamcha the lengendary hyper human transformation, and tien the God triclops transformation. Making them androids would ruin their character progression.
Ultra instinct is one of the best anime transformations oat but u can’t fine one good thing lmao
@serchizzle5728 is it? Second only to the first time goku transformed.. and the first time gohan went super saying 2 against cell, or the first tyme you see goku going super sayian 3.. hell even goku going ssj4 in GTwas better..obviously in my opinion.. (I don't even like DBgt that much, though l think that compared to super is a masterpiece)
Super is an alternate timeline anyways so there's no problem if they want to remake the end of the Majin Boo Saga. They already remade Pan anyways🤓
One thing still unexplained is how tf do either chichi or bulma survive the baby making process and then the whole carrying sayian babys that can just punch through them xD
I'm perfectly fine with them retconning the end of Z. It's not that big a deal.
I highly doubt they have any intention to uphold a statement from years ago.
Its Toriyama/Shueisha/Toei/Toyptarou we are talking about here. The TSTT have never upholded their claims so far, so why should they start on that now?
I always thought he just had tons of potential I mean kid buu never trained he's a lot like freeza in that regard I always thought that because the whole fight against him Goku is just training him a little and uub managed to get as strong as kid buu at least that's what I thought and imagine kid buu being a starting stat I can see why Goku would be excited
Dragon Ball Super is not something I care about. IMO, I only consider Z. But I respect both super and GT. I honestly feel like super is the worst of the 3. But to each their own. Classic Z is my style.
Love the thumbnail with Gohan circle 😂
Super and z could definitely fit. So many questions unanswered.
pretty much, nothing really changes then just goku not using his new forms or just using the forms into base by now, the gods again nothing really changes when they usually are in their planet 90% of the time so all that really changes honestly is uub having divine power which we know he does now from moro arc
Goku base by the EoZ is so strong he could one TUI Granola arc levels. Crazy.
ya but what about his MUI level. is he finally at the angels level or ...
not even close. if he is then it means goku journey is over at that point.
cuz nothing is meant to be beyond angel level/GP right??!
End of Z Goku is called the strongest meaning in base hes above end of z beast gohan . By that point. I think he is high god of destruction level@@ssppeeaarr
End of Z.
why uub is same level as goku eoz (End of Z)?
Goku said that this uub is reborn and Resembles as kid buu. but a good kid. Maybe Uub is far more stronger than kid buu already. because in manga, he breaks no sweat creating a big spirit bomb to susanoo goku. how the hell did kai took this kid out of nowhere without knowing who he was before end of z??? Goku and vegeta dont know who he was in manga, so thats fine. Maybe Uub has mastered god ki?? Idk why goku said uub was his rival. Goku is so happy with that.
I’ve just decided to treat super like GT an alternate what If rather than a canon continuation.
I think it’s important to remember that buu never trained unlike uub who probably has trained considering he knows how to fight. We know how strong freaza got from a couple months. Imagine a buu who trained and got stronger thats why goku wanted him back as a good guy, so they could train together
People care way to much about minor retcons between EoZ and Super. Beerus and Whis have no reason to show up to an Earth World Tournament. The strongest people on Earth already train on their planet, and Goku even brings people who are strong enough to them (example: Broly). Goku could still be impressed with Uub's power because of his young age and lack of proper training. Yes characters like Vegeta and Gohan are stronger, but their also a lot older, and have trained under different masters, something Uub has never done. Uub is only 10, and has never trained a day in his life, yet he has the strength to keep up with a Goku whose base exceeds his powers as a Super Saiyan 3 from when he had fought Kid Buu. Just because Goku didn't have to go all out, and just because he's met stronger people, doesn't mean he can't still be impressed by the potential of Uub. Raditz was stronger than Gohan when he arrived on Earth, does that mean everyone should just write Gohan off as perpetually beneath Raditz? No, because Gohan has incredible potential and has surpassed Raditz millions of times over.
Other minor things like Bulma mentioning "five years" since she's seen Goku could easily be explained as exaggeration, a playful reference to another trip to The Room of Spirit and Time, or could just be quietly ignored without impacting the story in any meaningful way. The same tactic of quietly ignoring the smaller details that don't really matter could apply to minor cosmetic changes that can't just be explained away as a change of clothes, like Bulma's appearance. Or perhaps that could be explained by an unforseen defect in whatever treatment Doctor Hedo gives her for wrinkles. Perhaps it's linked to as of yet unseen character development for Bulma where she accepts the fact that she's aging and, in an act of acceptance, wishes to have her natural appearance restored instead of wishing for more cosmetic surgery from Shenron.
The games aren't canonical to either the manga or the anime (other than Dragon Ball Online, which is exclusive to the manga continuity), so any changes they make are largely irrelevant to the actual narrative anyway, but everyone needs to remember that this dlc was made as an adaptation of the original events depicted in EoZ, with a few fights added to extend playtime, and doesn't necessarily need to line up to any events depicted in Super regardless. It doesn't even fully line up with original EoZ, hence the side quests, added dialogue, and added fights.
Yup that saying is just like another justification for the retcon dbs did to end of z imo...
"That could be explained this..."
"That could mean..."
"Oh of course that because that makes sense in a sense..."
etc etc etc and etc
Good storytelling doesn't need all the gimmick of justification explaining "what should be" and "what could be" and "how that could be" since the plot itself would justify itself because there's little to no retcon at all.
@@hxppythxughts7149Yeah, my problem with Super may not be the concept of Super itself, but how easy it is nowadays to retcon everything in movies, games, and stories while fans will just eat it up. It’s like stories don’t even matter anymore. If Super came out in the 90’s after EoZ instead of GT, pretty sure it wouldn’t be popular and there would be a backlash. I’m convinced that Super is ongoing because people are bored and starved for more DragonBall/Shonen Battle content or they only care about some of the newer characters in Super who are not all bad. DB/Z was originally written as to how anime and manga was written for its time in the 80’s and 90’s so bringing it back to modern day would demand some changes and character cuts be made. I get it has to sell toys and merch and wants to be a cash cow franchise, so it’s a decision I have to accept. But I rather Super be a different timeline and at least executed some things better.
@@denizenbyday I agree that retconing can get wildly out of control, but I don't think Dragon Ball Super is anywhere near the most egregious examples. All of importance that's really changed is that characters are stronger than originally depicted, and Goku and Vegeta have new friends. We can't make assumptions about Freeza, as he still may be dealt with by EoZ. Compare this to something like the handling of the various clone characters at Marvel, or Wonder Woman and the Hawk People over at DC. I understand why people care about power scaling, but can you honestly say you care that much about Bulma's reference to "five years" since she last saw Goku, which was only brought up off-handedly in a single line, and doesn't affect the overall story in any way? Retcons aren't inherently bad, for the perfect example, look up Jason Todd's origin as red hood, or Tommy Elliott/Hush, or Mary Jane learning Peter was Spider-Man by seeing Spidey come to and from his window. These retcons were used to add depth to either the heroes, villains, or the supporting cast.
yes they ara airka todl you before dbo is cnaon you cant nto say no game are canon when airka siad dbo is cnaon so wake up
@@ssjgotenks2009 You are right in regards to DBO, and I misspoke. However, it is the only game fully confirmed canon by Akira Toriyama, and is actually a sequel to the Dragon Ball manga continuity. Most of the games are merely adaptations of said manga/the anime, or have unique stories that can't possibly fit into the main continuity.
‘That title’ yeah exactly. Thank you. I’ve said it for years and years when I saw MasakoX say “The end of Z is no longer canon! Here’s why” and I’m like “no”
Maybe now that you’ve said it, people will listen. Because I don’t have big number and people will listen to big number.
There is a big gap in the Dragon Ball timeline. Because in the Broly movie, the flashback happened 41 years ago, two years before Goku was born, meaning that his age in the movie is 39. And in the Granola arc in the flashback, we go back 40 years, where we see that Goku is...
Goku is 3 years old, according to the statement of Jin, Goku's mother. I hope you talk about the matter and make us understand what is the reason for this gap, or is it just another forgetfulness from Toriyama as usual?