Fans can critique the direction or tone of a series, even if Toriyama himself created it. It’s possible to feel that GT (with minimal Toriyama involvement) captures the spirit of Dragon Ball better than Super even if it had more involvement. It all depends on how you personally view dragon ball
Someone sets the characters. It's possible you're just really bias against something and it's colored your idea. People are less forgiving, and harsher when they aren't enjoying themselves. And this backlash has lead to rose tinted GT glasses. Though there is wiggle room in that there are things added to the Toriyama plots. So some things are toei or Toyo. It's also possible you're idea of the characters is wrong. Or a combination of things.
It actually baffles my mind they created the Super Dragon Balls which are scattered in 2 Universes which would mean about twice the range of the Black Star Dragon Balls, yet, they area always collected off screen. 5 times to be exact and 4 of them were for pretty stupid wishes. After that we got the Cereal Dragon Balls which consist of just 2 Dragon Balls...
The difference was that Goku just lacked knowledge. When he met Bulma, he didn't know the difference between boys and girls but then was able to understand it enough to have 2 sons, and in areas where he was taught a lot, like fighting, he knew exactly how to use that knowledge to excel.
@@CookieFiend519 BRO WTF ARE YOU SAYING??? You liked DB and DBZ right? They are well made adaptations to anime of Toriyama's manga. Maybe in DBS it's all Toyotaro's fault, he was the kind of guy that made DBAF cursed fanmangas. It's bad and cruel to say something like the creator needs to die for the series get better, even when it probably was other guy fault. Do you like Daima? Because I can definitely tell that have Toriyama style.
@ I don’t think it has much to do with Toriyama’s understanding of Dragon Ball. Yeah, he probably forgot some stuff, but it’s not like he scripted the show’s episodes. For the show, he basically just gave major plot points. How the scenes were scripted and handled were basically just Toei. The manga is better, but even that wasn’t scripted by Toriyama. He was given editorial power, but you can only expect that to go so far.
Goku was always meant to be a country hick, that's how Toriyama designed him. A country hick who selfishly wanted to fight strong opponents. Super is the more accurate depiction of Goku.
This video made me realize what makes Future Trunks so unique. He sees himself as a human and nothing more. His Saiyan powers as a tool to help humanity. He doesn't give a s*** about his blood or about fighting and doesn't have the weakness of Goku and Gohan of thinking maniacs that destroy planets for fun can be redeemed. He is everything that Gohan should have been but never was. Someone who only fights because "great power comes with great responsibility" and is wiling to spill blood in the name of peace. He gets things done without getting distracted by pride or selfishness, unlike Vegeta. It's a rare case where having less flaws actually makes a character feel more human.
Yep, and then Super just royally screws him in nearly every way. Even permanently destroys the future timeline he had spent his whole life defending and shoves him into another universe instead and just calls it a day.
Now that you mention it, yeah! When he first showed up and eliminated Freeza, he was cool. But I suppose neither me, nor anyone else ever questioned how he became cool like that. He has his tragic backstory, which allowed him to grow, and see beyond ego, and bloodlines. And he's had far more than enough experience with destroyers who have no mercy. In comparison, main timeline Trunks is actually kinda egotistical at least for some time, and does get rather prideful, and consider his blood. I do think Gohan should have gone in a different direction, at least slightly. As shown at the start of Z, he's no warrior, and was raised with the double dreams for him of great scholar, and to be the strongest. Yet he gravitated more toward being a scholar, *especially* after marrying Videl.
@@mr.m1785 Gohan's characterization is the worst of all. He easily could have remained a fighter and stayed relevant, but Gohan has only ever existed as a plot device. That's why Toriyama completely ruins Gohan's character in the Cell Games with his "I hate fighting" nonsense that was completely contrary to his character up to that point, and then makes him lazy despite having every reason to post Cell Games to train, to the point he has to learn the same "I have to get off my butt and fight" lesson multiple times.
@@immortalfrieza Sorry I'm late! I didn't realize that was aimed at me until just now. He kinda always hated fighting from the beginning, to the point he didn't really act against Vegeta or Nappa for the longest time. Sure, he got angry at Raditz, and later Freeza. But in general, he wasn't a full fledged fighter in any capacity other than power, and potential power for the longest time. After Cell was defeated, he chose to take time away from constant fighting, as he still loved peace, and hadn't really had a chance to do much of anything except fight. He studied under Chi-Chi, and although he did fight for a while again after attending school and meeting Videl, after he got married, he focused far more on his new family, and tried to support them. His was a constant sort of struggle between being a scholar, having a job, having a family, and not really having that much time to train. He occasionally started to, but never continued. In the anime, before the movies, he finally gets serious for the Tournament of Power, but afterward, I guess he goes back to his peaceful life until Super Hero. It would be great if he became a main fighter again, but for his character, he now has other things he cannot abandon.
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203 Toriyama making constant ass pulls because he can't finalize the design of the villains and drags them out was always one of my biggest complaints. Never could really get into the Buu saga because of it
Also I gotta say it GT feels like an ending to original Dragon Ball in a lot of ways. It feels like it wanted to circle back to what the original was doing and i don't hate what it did.
as someone who is binged the entire Dragon ball series up to Db Super and broly movie just 2 month ago, i think Super is good, it extend the lore and feels like progressing forward, it inherit the Dragon Ball Z storytelling, felt like it's a natural continuation after Buu Arc. i'm not a fans of the ending of Dragon ball Z, and Super felt like a well deserved redemption, because there are still a lot of stories to tell and this is coming from a clueless guy who knew nothing about Dragon ball just a couple of months ago, db super managed to grab your attention from start to finish, which is a hallmark of Great storytelling. sure, the beerus and golden frieza part is a bit slow, and i'm not a fan of dumb Goku either but, the Universe 6 vs 7 arc, Black Goku arc and Tournament of Power Arc are really good, i can even say that it's comparable or better than Namek or buu saga. i can see why Dragon ball is popular in the first place. if you watch or read Db series from start to the latest db super, you'll realized that everything is cohesive, it didn't felt like Toriyama stop back in the 90s Meanwhile, GT feels like a filler, a very slow filler, i'm actually losing interest because although it's like retelling the Original Dragon ball story, it retell the story with none of the excitement like the original one. and it felt disjointed from the og, because Toriyama didn't involved in this, they also couldn't do anything to expand the lore, therefore a very basic writing and relying more on archetype. Goku and Trunk felt like a different character entirely because they can't fleshed out the character, then i watched Super, this was the first time where i felt like these character come back to life again, maybe if i grew up watching db GT, i would probably like it, but it's so traumatic for me, to the point that i took a long break before watching the latest Dragon ball Daima but i can see why people who grew up watching Z or GT didn't like Super, i think it's because their perception is being skewed by Nostalgic reason. but if you actually try to rewatch it again from start, to Z, to Super, Super is actually really good, i'm so glad that almost all of the character got their second chance to shine, like Master Roshi, Tien, krillin, because they felt like being abandoned after Namek arc, outshined by goku. it got its own flaw or plot holes, but that alone is not strong enough reason to hate it, it's considered as Nitpick at best, but considering the execution, the pace, and how it managed to grab your attention, the series is Great. i can't take anyone opinion seriously if they took that one flaw, design or one plot hole as a sole reason to hate the entire series, and ignoring a lot of things that they did right
@jensenraylight8011 Someone who binged it in modern day will never have the same experience or view. I'm glad you enjoy it but Super is flawed on every level. Characterization, plot, art style, animation, emotional beats. There isn't a single thing Super did RIGHT in my opinion. It is a power stroke off for people who weren't willing to let go of the character. A fan fiction that Toei paid enough money to stamp Toriyama's name on.
@@Yakonsupremacyyea Goten would probably be a better example since he hasn't done anything yet in Super, but in GT that boy had game for whatever reason
trunks in GT barely has 30 dialogues and he transformed into SSJ like twice the other times he was a useless punching bag without writing please stop commenting on internet retard
What makes Zeno erasing Trunks’ universe worse is that it wasn’t just the people who were alive who got erased, it’s everyone in the afterlife too. So his mentor Future Gohan got erased, his mom who had just died and maybe got reunited with Future Vegeta (unless he got purified and reincarnated) got erased, Future Goku got erased, Future Piccolo, etc. And he just doesn’t care?
Zeno is the absolute worst thing to happen to the franchise. There were lots of bad retcons, but now you have an ultimate tier of gods who don't care about life and casually destroys it, while keeping several universes enslaved under a system where it has invincible enforcers who are tasked with destroying planets for the smallest slight. Freezer ended up being subservient and permitted to do awful things and Goku is friends with everyone.
@@dansmith1661plus, the Goku and Vegeta claim to have literal god tier power, but they can still get beaten by regular people who've trained hard (Jiren, Hit, Moro, etc.). We're expected to believe they can have the power to be Beerus's replacement some day but they're still too weak
@@dansmith1661I mean, Frieza was destroying both while Beerus was alseep and while Shin remained undertrained since Buu killed all the other Kais, including his mentor. Even still, for all his destruction, he spent his time making a profit and running an empire in orderly fashion, compared to Zamasu becoming a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Zeno really has no reason to kill Frieza when he not only isn't a threat to the multiverse and even now only stays focused on his own universe, but also is someone who can be dealt with by the people who have fought and beaten him before.
In Z leading into GT, Goku's primary concern was who would defend Earth after he's gone, and he trained Uub for that reason. In Super, he doesn't seem to care at all about that or anything else at all.
In the original work training Uub to protect the planet was part of his reasoning, but it was ultimately a selfish thing to do because what he REALLY wanted was someone to fight against. Super goku is not THAT different from Z goku.
@@genoremsuper goku forgot what he learned from his training with kami, had to learn again how to control his transformation like with grade 4, couldnt tell it was beerus in a torn apart giant monaka suit, never kissed his wife, is overly joyful compared to how he was in Z especially at the end, doesnt care one bit abt gohan or goten and trunks growing stronger, etc etc He’s very different from his Z counterpart
@@user-gd1no3gf6d Bro what are you talking about? When did he forget anything from Kami? If your talking about the manga version where he realized he needs to apply all of his lessons from his teachers together to achieve Ultra Instinct then that's not forgetting. I sure hope he'd have to learn how to control God ki, which is different from normal ki. yeah, the Monaka thing was dumb filler, never took it seriously, in fact it was hilarious. The kissing thing is a mistranslated joke. Z Goku was CONSTANTLY in situations where he HAD TO take things seriously. Super Goku is not. Super goes a little too far with his aloofness in peace time, but he remains a straight up genius in battles. Goku outright talks about wanting to let Gohan be who he wants to be and how he respects him for it. Chi-chi is clearly putting more effort into Gotens studies. He's in a totally different environment than Z Goku who died, trained a year out of need, resurrected and put in the hospital, healing and training out of need, got his body stolen and beaten up, healed and escaped an exploding planet, took a year to learn Shunkan Ido, returned to Earth to train for 3 years out of need, had a heart attack, healed and trained out of need, died for 7 years, resurrected by Old Kai because he was needed to fight danger. Super Goku is the most relaxed we see Goku outside the original Dragon Ball.
Probably because super is an interquel? Goku didn’t need to worry about the next savior because super is in between buu being washed by a spirit bomb and the 23rd world martial arts tournament, they haven’t even gotten to the point where he needs to start worrying
Gohan got Beast mode wtf u talking about. Yes he slacked off at the beginning of the DB Super, but in later episodes he will train with everybody. He even said to Goku "Now I know why you always wanted me to train/fight/be ready" something along those lines.
@@robertasgar6387 "Yes he slacked off at the beginning of the DB Super" That was what I was talking about. He already learned that not training will fuck him up in the boo saga. Yet they made in super do it again like an imbicel who is not learning from his own mistakes.
@@neoteraflare I mean he always struggled with training, because he never wanted to be a fighter in the first place, he wanted a normal life. Gohan is more of a family person while Goku is all about fighting, he forgets that he has a wife or grandchildren, so it makes sense. And Gohan now takes it seriously, because he realized that his father , Vegeta, Piccolo won't always be there or that they sometimes might be not enough, so he started training now to protect his family and loved ones, not, because he likes it. So it really makes a lot of sense actually.
Goku is slightly dumb, but more than anything he was Naive. He grew up in the mountains and never saw a car, so when he first saw one he thought it was a beast like what he had seen. after being told it's a car he never had that problem again in Z. likewise, he wouldn't understand pregnancy at first, but after having a child of his own he would learn and understand. So 50 year old Goku in super has no reason to be as dumb as he is. and i hate how they just rick and morty'd trunks's timeline
See this is my issue with people always calling Goku dumb. In Super I can't defend it we can all agree it was a character assasination. But in OG/Z he was never dumb. They always confuse that with naïveté and ignorance. If Goku was raised by loving parents, had an education throughout his entire childhood and still behaved the way he did he would 100% be stupid. But since he lived alone for pretty much his entire childhood in the mountains with no human contact besides Gohan for a few years what he does is completely normal. He never saw a car, never witnessed technology, never witnessed women, doesn't know what love is. Of course he would think a car is a beast to him or a woman like Bulma a witch or wouldn't know what a bride is lol or think lipstick is blood on lips. I would guarantee anyone else growing alone in those conditions in the mountains as a child with no contact to the outside world until 12 and no education or proper parents would probably be a lot worse off in the head. All things considered he adapted well.
Exactly. Goku’s problem was he was a naive farm boy who basically had to raise himself after grandpa Gohan’s death. The closest thing he had to a parent in the first episode was a spoiled rich 16 year old girl. He’s capable of learning. People forget Goku learned to drive a car.
like Timodoren stated, we cant sit here and say Goku is dumb. Numerous characters in Dragonball do and understand different things based on where they grew up and their environment. Bulma who grew up in civilization thought boys had tails after seeing Goku. Is she an idiot for thinking that? People get the reactions of characters to Gokus forward confusion, observations and questions as a sign of him being dumb when really its stupid that they dont understand that Goku wasnt brought up like alot of people.
Goku literally got hit on the head as a kid… dragon ball is a play on it self like running joke that took itself seriously. You people dnt be knowing wtf yall talking about fr
The main advantage GT has is that it moves the story forward (not always in a good way) so it feels like there is payoff. Super on the other hand is set in an intermediate period between the the time skip of the Buu saga, and so far shows little interest in going past the end of the original story. This puts DBS in a timeless vacuum where nothing feels like a regular timeline, and instead gives the feel of something like DC and Marvel comics.
One of my main issues with Super and why I wont go back to watching it again. I feel stuck with the story. Its way too commercial now to just ends. For me DB ended with GT's beautiful farewell.
Super shit the bed in the first scene of the first episode by portraying Goku as an actual re/ard who can't count to 10 without using his fingers, completely ignoring the fact that he actually learned arithmetic at the end of the original Dragonball.
He did the same thing in gt hero legacy movie also when has goku ever used math outside of fighting he a average student at best but a fighting prodigy
@@Mightymewing360Goku's confusion didn't come from having to count to ten. He was trying to figure out how many generations apart he was from Goku JR. It took him a minute before he just decided he was overthinking and it didn't really matter.
Clearly you weren't paying any attention to the show as always Goku was trolling beerus especially when Goku said 1 trillion 2 trillion 3 trillion and said see, I can count to a trillion and proceed to giggle
I think the color design and character design in GT is phenomenal. It feels so.. weird, and futuristic but still familiar. Super, on the other hand, feels so bland. Compare Beerus or Jirens designs to final form Baby Vegeta. It’s not even close. GT could be annoying at times but it feels good to look at
i cant lie i just gotta disagree because Beerus's design is pretty dope. It's based on Toriyama's cat and also ancient Egyptian deities. He has a cool design but I can't lie neither that Baby Vegeta had a cool design, even if not too creative with the whole stealing bodies thing
@@daverave3561 I’ll meet you halfway and say that probably all of Super could look better if done with DBZ/GTs art and animation styles and color grading. There are some artist renditions on RUclips and Goku Black in DBZ art style looks amazing.
@@Subgenrelol I can agree. I really enjoy DBZ and GTs art style, but I feel like lots of the charm is lost in Super with just the overall lack of effort or care put into the art or animation as a whole. Dragon Ball Super: Broly is where my favourite art style is at- it's really simple but also very pleasing, and even if it isn't close to the original art style by any means, it still has a unique charm and something that reminds me of that style despite not quite being it.
You'd think being trained by some of the smartest people in the universe and being around Chichi would help stop that, only kid Goku I could give it to for being as stupid as he is in super or even daima
GT had a larger amount of good ideas than Super I feel, though I dislike the execution of many of them. Goku training up Uub amounted to nothing, Majuub amounted to nothing, Trunks and Pan mostly hindered Goku or did nothing. The whole Hell thing in the Super 17 arc was silly (why is Android 19 coming out of hell?), lobotomized Nappa grunting for 3 seconds, 18 getting folded by 17 easily (he was stronger but not by that much, no indication that he'd kept training as a park ranger, unlike the Super version). Many of the Shadow Dragons were poorly executed too...To be honest I kind of wish super had been a remake of GT, something that took place past End of Z instead of in the middle, I always disliked that part about it.
I honestly don't think that GT was a bad series. GT was a better series than people give it credit for, especially its ending being the best ending of any dragonball series.
GT absolutely was great. Folks get on this high horse about it being canon or not then that gets in their big brained way of actually enjoying the series. GT feels like DBZ. Super, aside from the great animation, is KIND OF all over the place, still fun....but all over the place.
GT was a fine ending for the dragon ball series imo. Goku being a kid while everyone is older is a throwback to when the series first started showing how Goku evolved but still has the child like personality to him. The weird team of kid Goku, Pan his granddaughter and trunks the son of Vegeta his rival made the chemistry all the more interesting between them. It also brought back adventure to dragon ball and made finding dragon balls challenging again. Also SSJ4 is pure originality and a fine final SSJ transformation honestly. Also the legacy of Goku forever tears me up seeing how everyone passed on 😢 And pan being old with her grandson.
The ending was literally the only good thing about it. Vegeta was trash the whole series, Goku Didn’t even care that Krillin died, SSj 4 and SSJ 4 Fusion were supposedly so powerful but neither was really effective when it really mattered.
@@brendonharris9310 dragon ball is goku, vegeta is even more trash in super, his whole personality is flipped, GT vegeta was far more mature while keeping his core personality intact and not bowing to some cat god lol
@ihat0094 buddy bowing constantly and not even thinking about murdering beerus one day, and using the machine when the earth is actually about to be blown are 2 different things , that too to kill the threat. In super vegeta has taken on the role of what piccolo was at the end of Z
@@raghmaneyou say this like nothing else changed. At least they tried to progress everyone's stories. Then we have super where vegeta, a main character, still wears his damn z armor like he hasn't been on earth for years.
So many points brought up in this video that reminded me of various 4 hour+ discussions Ive had with friends in the past lmao Great video tho I do love the slice of life episodes of Super & a handful of concepts but like GT both had their issues. Tho 1 thing I think was underrated about GT was the fact most of the fighters wore street/casual clothes when fighting. To me personally thats just a dope concept. Having a casual day out but then being ready to box on the spot haha
Thanks man! Yeah I agree with that last part, especially with goten and vegeta. Makes it a bit more realistic and feels like these people are just living their lives in a time of peace
Buu was supposed to be the literal ultimate threat from Z, so it makes sense for the writers to not want to make him look weak, but it definitely could have been handled better.
Wym? They already had beerus pummel everybody and then had Goku obviously far surpass that lol. They made everyone look weak, that’s why we get confused when they are able to do ANYTHING 😂
"not want to make him look weak" Buu was wrecked by SSJ3 Goku Was split in 2, weakening him significantly, and then was wrecked by his other half. Was wrecked by Beerus Won 1 anime-exclusive fight against a nobody before the tournament of power, and then proceeded to do nothing for the rest of the series. Aside from the start of his own arc and Super/Kid buu who are for all intents and purposes completely separate entities, Buu already looks about as unthreatening as you can get.
My favorite aspect to Goku's GT design is it's kind've like a mesh of ideas between his purplish/blue gi he wore as a child, and his orange/blue gi he wore as a teenager and throughout his adulthood.
My biggest issue with Super was its tone. Aside from the Goku Black arc, nothing ever really felt at stake. There was no emotional tension or weight to the events of the plot, because not even the characters themselves gave a shit about what was happening (esp during the Tournament of Power where the side-characters just kinda chill at the bleachers). Even if GT was 80% filler, those emotional peaks resonated 10x's higher than anything from Super.
That’s my main complaint why care about the world being at stake when beer is could just kill them at ease it’s pointless berry’s is n out even a good character he’s just there
@@M3rtyville The whole arc was a disaster. Poorly thought out and mind bustingly stupid and contradictory. Black and Zamasu or whatever is highly uninteresting and boring because his motivation is not explained enough.
@@mixkid3362 zamasu wants 0 mortals, knows that mortals are all over this signle planet, and could wipe the planet out with one shot, leaving the other planets intact (and is a god of creation in training, so he would definitely be capable of making new life if he wished) somehow this man, who has 0 reason to leave the earth in 1 piece, isn't just booming it.
@vla1ne yeah, but why is he doing any of this? Super in manga and anime doesn't really explain why he's doing this besides mortals destroy beauty. What is beauty to Zamasu?
Ironically one of the arguments I always hear for why GT haters hate GT is that Goku being a kid again felt like a regression of character but those same people like Super where there is an actual regression of character problem. GT for all it's faults at least understood where the characters arc would lead them. Krillin happily married, Vegeta becoming comfortable with earth being his home as well as caring about his family. Vegeta had the biggest respect placed on his character, his lines were great, his character felt like a positive and his respect for Goku showed so clearly, making it undeniable that he really changed after Goku beat Buu. Trunks may not have my favorite fit in GT but it's still grew on me after a bit.
@LyricMammal Ironically they were probably also hating daima before it released. Sometimes I feel like Dragon Ball has one of the most bipolar fanbases ever. Daima does look fun at least, I plan to watch it later when I can binge it.
What I don't like about gt fans is how gt fans tend say super goku regressed as a charter and fighter when everything super goku does where traits shown in z the top and goku making it was actually save the universe because Zeno was going to destroy it because he felt humans didn't care about their universe but let's even ignore that and say goku just did this to fight is this not same goku in the buu saga that risked human lives just so he could see if the next Gen could protect earth they will also say goku is a bad martial artist for using blue but in z and gt he uses ssj3 also they claim vegeta has grown and only cares about earth when he is mad about super 17 asking for goku and sometimes goes back to z vegeta bitter rivalry with goku and gogeta acting like gotenks 2 there are a lot more characters I could name in gt handled poorly or regressed some of the bad things u see in super is by their and arenot in super goku not kissing that fans complain about which is weird is no t present in the super Manga vegeta always being this person who wants to beat goku not present in the Manga in fact now vegeta is finding his own way of power and a transformation that fits his character unlike gt so most character problem u have are not in Manga and they are toei changes
Vegeta powering up because he made a promise to some random saiyan he met twice than the fact that his wife and kids(his new born baby including) will die if he doesn't win is absolute Bullshiete
@@Omega-jg4oqHe is…especially him bootlicking Vegeta every time he sees him calling him “master” is so damn annoying. Even Vegeta told him not to call him that, but Cabba persisted anyways.
@@cobrazoid bruh is already calling him a master when he didn't spend much time with him 💀 and both Tarble and Cabba are weak, but Cabba still got some asspulls
@@Omega-jg4oq The wild part is how everyone in this thread did not understand the entire principle of Vegeta and Cabba was Vegeta spending their entire first meeting training him, and teaching him the pride of the saiyans, and trying to reunite with his race. That's Vegeta's ENTIRE CHARACTER. And Cabba respects him for it and wants to learn more, because the Salada saiyans have a drastically more peaceful and different upbringing.
No one mentions this: in Super, why does Vegeta wear his armor? He discarded the armor in Z. He discarded the blue tights at the end of Z and in GT. Also, why is Super Vegeta obsessed with surpassing Goku? Don't get me started on the Final Atonement 2.0.
in gt am surprise no one mention this:why does vegeta lost his pride and don't care about training anymore?why did they bring back every villain from movie in the series?why did they turn goku in a kid and make him go hunt for the dragonball are they trying to make it like db 2.0?
@@nickalas666 1. Vegeta still trains, he just doesn't obsess over surpassing goku anymore. 2. They attempted to bridge the movies with the series I guess. 3. That is obviously the intention, just badly executed. Not like they did any different in the latest db daima.
Yeah that was pretty much the goal. People just weren’t ready for it back then. Z is a classic but it’s mostly energy beams and transformations. You noticed more fans these days now appreciate the original DB as having better story and character development.
4:44 The good thing about Dragon Ball GT is that it brought some characters from the classics into this story like Lunch. She appears in the final episode of the anime when she is older, raising her hands to help Goku make the Genki Dama.
In GT Gohan never stopped training, obviously he prioritized family and career but he also didn't neglect training because he knew that at some point he would have to fight again. In Super he doesn't train and realizes that he has become useless, he goes back to training so he doesn't do shit and ends up without training again.
no... Atsushi Maekawa, writer of of most of gt literally said that gohan abandoned fighting and los his ultimate form, i don´t know were you are taking that he still trains
@@J-manteca Its in the GT perfect files; In the files it explicitly states, that he never slacked off on his training. You can also tell with deeper analysis that he can stack his SSJ Transformation on top of his ultimate form.
gt feels like fanfic done by someone who actually knows about and respect dragon ball super feels official, an official cheap cashgrab done by people who don't care for toryama's legacy
Super has so much more potential than GT, unfortunately, that potential was wasted by bad writing, character designs, and a lack of any 3 dimensional storytelling and characters. Super Saiyan God, Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego, and Golden Frieza are all such cool concepts that don't get realised. Super Saiyan God being cool in the sense that it's new, it's not really a "Super Saiyan" transformation. It's something entirely new, and I think it's pretty cool (though it could be more than just a base reskin), but it's potential is wasted by a lack of screentime, and the fact that blue defeats any purpose of the form whatsoever. Any sense of purpose it had has been diminished, it's just a "stepping stone" for blue. Ultra Instinct is, in my opinion, perfectly executed, I would argue that not only does it look cool, it's actually awesome for the narrative, it's the culmination of Goku's journey, every master he's had up until this point has been leading him to this point. Roshi, Korin, Popo, Kame, King Kai, and Whis, despite the differences each one has, they're drastically different lessons and designs, they all taught him one thing, mind, body, and soul must fight as one entity.
If it wasn’t for the spectacle and funding behind dragon ball, super would be absolute garbage. At least that’s how it feels. GT feels like if they just had the proper support/funding/creative minds it would’ve been a perfect ending to the series. I.e: GT feels like a poorly executed, yet phenomenal plan. Super feels like a horrible plan that nobody wants to fail. So they put every last resource into making what they have look pretty.
I always wondered, maybe GT is canon to the movies. It feels more like what they did with the movies and their faster pace and awesome battles. That, and the fact Cooler popped out of Hell in GT!
I loved the movies, and it's interesting to imagine them having a separate canon of their own. They take place far enough apart that you COULD do something like that. Events would have to go very very differently though.
GT Vegeta is one of my favorite things ever, it's a shame he'll never get that insane earthling drip again. Edit: This was just a comment praising his design, and now i have a whole debate here, jesus christ.
Gt Vegeta is character assassination he’s absolutely weak and it’s a shame to watch him throughout get used as a pawn for ssj4 gogeta. Super been giving Vegeta way more credit tbh.
@@Coolnamatadayou can cope Vegeta accepted Goku was superior to him in almost all ways possible at the end of dbz GT understood this and in the end allowed him to be on par or around Goku level however Super does the opposite continuing regressing him but giving him extra unneeded character growth which goes nowhere btw Vegeta continuously yaps about being stronger than Goku when it’s never happened doesn’t matter if Goku never beaten Vegeta in a fight all that matters is Goku has continuously been superior to Vegeta in every arc against a main villain he’s defeated Jiren Moro etc and antagonist like Zamasu or Gas he’s put a much better fight than Vegeta Vegeta in super is just that guy who gets beaten up waiting for backup to show and it’s sad really when Vegeta got ssj4 in GT he managed to control the form and understand its structure much better than Goku did Vegeta said if he masters the form he could surpass Goku easily but He chose not to as like I said earlier Gt Vegeta doesn’t care anymore and isn’t obsessed with Goku anymore
@@swampfire9382 You are delusional lol. GT Vegeta was FAR more obsessed with Goku than Super Vegeta is. In fact, GT Vegeta even went as far as to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to play catch up to Goku (he admitted it himself) meanwhile Super Vegeta earned his own unique transformation through his motivation to protect Universe 7. GT Vegeta is the one that still chasing Goku, not Super. GT Vegeta in the 17 Arc threw a whole temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku more than him and even went as far to yell "I'm number one here" (which goes against his speech in the Buu Saga). There is not a single instance of Super Vegeta getting angry over the fact that everyone prefers Goku however. There is no "regression" with Super Vegeta, I'm so sick of ignorant fans throwing that word around every time Vegeta does something they don't like. And your complaints make ZERO sense, how can a character be "regressed" and also have "unneeded character growth"? You just contradicted yourself because if he has character growth then he is by definition not "regressed". And there's no such thing as "unneeded" character growth in the first place. And no, at no point in Super does Vegeta ever claim to have gotten stronger than Goku. All this talk about GT Vegeta being "mature" and "developed" is just delusional headcanon from GT fans, because almost all of his major scenes in GT show the opposite. GT Vegeta never won a single fight while Super Vegeta has won MULTIPLE fights including against Goku Black (the main villain who beat Goku 3 times). GT Vegeta never mastered SSJ4 (you lied about that) while Super Vegeta mastered every transformation he's ever gotten except Ultra Ego. There's no contest who's the objectively better character.
@@swampfire9382 That's completely false GT Vegeta was FAR more obsessed with Goku than Super Vegeta is. In fact, GT Vegeta even went as far as to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to play catch up to Goku (he admitted it himself) meanwhile Super Vegeta earned his own unique transformation through his motivation to protect Universe 7. GT Vegeta is the one that still chasing Goku, not Super. GT Vegeta in the 17 Arc threw a whole temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku more than him and even went as far to yell "I'm number one here" (which goes against his speech in the Buu Saga). There is not a single instance of Super Vegeta getting angry over the fact that everyone prefers Goku however. There is no "regression" with Super Vegeta, I'm so sick of ignorant fans throwing that word around every time Vegeta does something they don't like. And your complaints make ZERO sense, how can a character be "regressed" and also have "unneeded character growth"? You just contradicted yourself because if he has character growth then he is by definition not "regressed". And there's no such thing as "unneeded" character growth in the first place. And no, at no point in Super does Vegeta ever claim to have gotten stronger than Goku. All this talk about GT Vegeta being "mature" and "developed" is just delusional headcanon from GT fans, because almost all of his major scenes in GT show the opposite. GT Vegeta never won a single fight while Super Vegeta has won MULTIPLE fights including against Goku Black (the main villain who beat Goku 3 times). GT Vegeta never mastered SSJ4 (you lied about that) while Super Vegeta mastered every transformation he's ever gotten except Ultra Ego. There's no contest who's the objectively better character.
@@lukejones7164this is so stupid and false shows how you never watched GT 1. Vegeta didn't cheat he only used the machine to go ouzarou but he went ssj4 on his own and if you actually watched the show Vegeta said he wanted to get stronger to test his limits as he says ealier in the show which is why he is interested in ssj4 not for goku but to test his limits 2. Vegeta gets unique transformations in DBS dude what transformations? The one is Ultra ego which literally just vegetas version of Ul and blue Evolution which is the most barebones form ever didn't even use it in Broly Super Vegeta literally making up a form to mimic UI goku shows that he is far more obsessed with goku then GT vegeta was 3. Please explain this 4. Every time someone talks about goes goku is stronger vegeta always scoffs so clearly he is ticked about how someone is akoloaging this 5. There literally is a regression Buu saga Vegeta said goku is number 1 and you even mentioned thay when yoy claimed GT returned Vegeta EOZ vegeta aknolages goku as a friend instead of a Rival he still is in GT and EOZ but its not as bad as ir was in pre buu arc where vegeta was having nightmares And also super also shows he has regressed based on his clothes In Sayain saga we wears all armor Namek saga he looses the waiste pads Android saga he only has the Body armor Buu Saga he only wears the Blue Jumpsuit EOZ he only wheres the gloves GT he's fully wearing Earthling clothes It shows how he processes and accepting of being a earthing but Super ruins this by making vegeta go back to his Cell Saga outfit which is ironic given how he acts like a mix of Cell Saga vegeta and Buu Saga Vegeta 6. Gt vegeta doesn't win a single fight Lmao don't mess with us dragon ball fans we don't watch the show Dude he beat Baby Gohan and Goten in a 2v1 but baby ended up getting control over him via a cut on his cheek and that's all he needed And name those time she won against black LMAO Overall watch GT instead of making this braindead post
Goku GT is about 42 years old, already a middle-aged man but in a child's body and I actually like this concept of Goku being so strong in the story that Toei decided to nerf the character so they could work The story is better, unfortunately they made mistakes in some things but got other things right and in the end, they got the ending of DB GT right.
This video is so relaxed, firm about the points it’s making yet not screaming in ur face about it. Along with providing ample evidence to backup said claims + a good sense of humor. Sub earned, peak vid!’
7:31 I love how in GT when vegeta suggests fusion dispite it being obvious he’s still a bit flustered about it. It shows not only growth but that a tiny bit of vegeta still resides like “fuck this idiot but we’re kinda bones so let’s do this.” I love it.
@@kevintanza6968nope not the mustache his character is assassinated in the series. Simple. Gt vegeta is not my Vegeta. Y’all cool with the watered down version of vegeta in gt who gets beat up by all the villains beat up by Gohan and goten and got his body snatched and is more of an earthling than actual saiyan. Nah I prefer the super vegeta where he’s beating his enemies getting new forms and not just a component for fusion.
@@CoolnamatadaVegeta beating his enemies huh? You mean the guy who lost to literally every arc's antagonist since his introduction? This is bait for sure, no way someone thinks like this unironically
@ toppo? God of destruction? Yeah ok you missed that show me a Gt vegeta kill besides from nappa then we can talk. Oh and I’m not talking about the Vegeta who’s body got controlled a whole arc.
@@enzomercier2789 yes i definitely think like this i guess you didn’t read where vegeta goes to planet yardrat, trains with a god of destruction and achieve a form on par with a technique angels use. In gt vegeta uses a machine to reach ssj4. Go cope. Super vegeta is way more vegeta than gt ever provided don’t get me wrong i actually love gt for the nostalgia and cool moments but story wise it didn’t do a good job keeping the characters accurate. Everyone is washed up. It’s pitiful yeah gt Vegeta was stronger than gohan and goten but still got washed up by him, Gohan was dragging him thru concrete Vegeta stupidly raises his ki just to get his body snatched and rescued by Goku. Dbs Vegeta > Gt Vegeta. I love gt but it’s the truth
Thank you! I'm tired of people defending Super and shitting on GT, when despite its setbacks, GT actually feels like it's part of the DB universe. Super has legit turned into the Dragon Ball April Fools meme
It also doesn't help that on a pure visual standpoint,..it's more interesting to watch GT due to it being Cell animated,...I can never get over the wonky visuals of Super
Now that I think about it, an easy solution for Bulma's/Trunks's hair inconsistency is have a scene where Bulma is getting her hair dyed (because of her mid-life crisis) and reveal that her natural hair color is purple, she's just been dying it blue since she was 16. Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one that dislikes that Bulma's hair style stagnated in Super. I miss her experimenting with it in Z.
Idk why but that is also a small detail that I loved about Bulma in Z that makes it odd seeing her in Super now. It was cool to see her in a new character design every few episodes and made her more genuine cuz that’s what girls in real life actually do lol.
We are different. I hate GT, i think its stupid executed what ruins it for me but as a Dragonball fan i want that you can enjoy all of dragonball as much as possible. So please enjoy it, i will never hate a fellow dragonball fan just because he likes one of the series what are not for me :)
13:49 can we talk about how bad a character zeno is? from his very concept to how characters like goku treat him, fat buu was the eact same idea a todler with the power to wipe out the universe and the lack of restraint to keep him in cheak, everyone and goku treated him as a villain to deffeat, but now with zeno its meant to be cute... why does zero fans have a problem with this character.. why has my commenting this same problem never once been even responded too by any other fans... why does no-one else care about this massive fu cked up plot hole with goku and how he's written???? iv been asking this question for years now, and no-one has even had the balls to respond to it... it sucks, seeing a problem no-one else does.
@@shardinhand1243 I agree, I really dislike Zeno. The only good thing about him is that he reinforces the idea that there is always someone stronger, but even that is executed in a pretty wack way. Like I said to someone else in the comments, it’s kinda weird and creepy that they all have to perform like circus animals for him so he doesn’t commit atrocities and murder trillions of people
@@Jiron127 i mean, nothing as ancient or as powerful as zeno should have such a simple child like mind, or be so indiferent to entire universes of people, i hate that direction in particular, i much prefured the kais and supreme kais being in charge, theyre didint need to be a higher tier making them irelevent, and the angels and gods of destruction already served the story function of being that higher level of power for goku to reach for.
@@Mightymewing360 yeah that too, in general i dont like the idea of all powerful babies, the cool thing about how owl house handles the idea is that the collector doesint cannonicly butcher countless worlds of inocent people like zeno has, he's fu ck ups are not praised peopel try to reason with him to be kinder and consider others lives, and unlike zeno, it works, a well handled example of a character archtype i normaly absolutly hate....
GT especially understood the character of Vegeta. The Vegeta in GT is the fully realized version of Vegeta that I was hoping to get in Super. Instead he’s still stuck on the “I need to surpass Kakarot” thing.
Some fans don't understand that just because he ended his obsession with Goku, doesn't mean he has to stop training. In GT, he trained to surpass his own limits, to see where his power goes. And it was healthier this way. He found his own intrinsic power, even surpassing Goku because of it. Whereas in Super, he's right back to "I wanna surpass Kakarot, I WANNA, I WANNA!!", going right back to the unhealthy obsession that hindered him in the long run.
I especially hated his first lines in super where they basically confirm this. His first lines go something like "I know I admitted you as best, Kakarot, but I will never give up trying to surpass you!" which completely negates the *MEANING* behind that statement.
Could not disagree more. Vegeta giving up fighting, getting out of shape, eating donuts and then requiring an outside source, Bulma, to help him advance without training and hard work is completely antithetical to everything we know about the character from Z. In Super he's a true rival to Goku, as he should be, not just a jobber used to power scale every villain.
@jondiaz3329 1) He did not do either of the first 3. He trained, but not to surpass Goku. Rather, it was to surpass his own limits, find his own strength rather than beat someone else. It was healthier and did more for him long-term than his training in Z ever did. 2) You say that like getting help from Bulma is a weakness. It's only a weakness if, like Z Vegeta, you think your own strength is all that matters. In GT, however, Vegeta realizes he can't go it alone. He trusts Bulma to help him. He's more than just Goku's rival.
Probably the only thing i like from DBS Trunks and Future Trunks is their personality differences. Future Trunks acts as an earthling, and doesnt see pride or his saiyan blood as something important, because he was raised by Gohan. DBS Trunks on the other hand, shames him for not having those traits, because he was raises by Vegeta. Its kinda wacky, mainly because Vegeta shouldve let his pride behind, but with given circustances, its a good dialogue and a good counterpart.
For me I just prefer Super Saiyan 4 over SSJG, as a concept makes the most sense. It doesn't break scaling formula, the made the form look like the peak of natural Saiyan biology (as human monkey men), and the Oozaru going Super Saiyan, is just a genius combination, as well as them taking it from the filler from Vegeta's memory of the first primitive Super Saiyan being that form itself. Its logical and lore-friendly. As well as the symbiology of it "repeating history" on Baby Vegeta's new Planet Tuffle he wished for. It was just a brilliant execution. GT Goku also being a kid (unlike Daima) and re-growing his tail actually served a purpose. He had his Z strength but his body handicapped his full power. Then SSJ4 broke the spell and made him an adult in that form because of its power, and SSJ4 essentially giving Goku a new body post-Oozaru. I also prefer that GT Goku acted more like Buu arc Goku, rather than what we have now where Goku just acts very childish and dumb. GT Goku's personality was closer to Z. I also like the art design of most of the characters more form Nakatsuru. Except for Goku Black and Zamasu, I'm not a fan of most of the character designs in Super. To me, GT's best areas feel closer to Z or the Z movies, than Super does. Super doesn't feel like Z to me. Super just feels like it only exists just to appeal to fan *perceptions* of the franchise. The characters being all flanderized, with no real motivation anymore other than "protecting the Earth", Goku being really dumb now, the intense focus on Goku & Vegeta, transformations pulled out of nowhere with no real build up or sense of earned attainment, training is all of screen, Whis & Beerus won't go away, we have an Evil Goku and a White-haired Goku, Inconsistent scaling, fan-fiction like relationships (Mai and Trunks which is just random), God ki feeling like it was fan-made and it breaks the logic of the series, and the Super Saiyan God thing, the ritual just doesn't really feel like it fits with Dragonball to me. GT's ending also feels very reminiscent to the Cell arc ending. It keeps the theme of Goku ending up leaving his friends behind in some way at the end of each arc. He either dies, chooses to stay in otherworld, or in GT goes off with the Dragon. Super feels like everything is both an asspull and stuck in status quo limbo.
you know now i'm just realizing that anytime someone with a removed tail comes back to life, he should regrow it.. his body's being regenerated, right? he should probably have a beard too, if they really can grow them. I've never been comfortable with that, I mean I want them to have beards but I feel like they have spent way too much time isolated in one place obviously without any shaving supplies, and with zero reason to do it. Maybe they only grew in in their 50s.
thank you SO MUCH for zooming out and posting what is effectively a MAJOR counterpoint to the popular opinion. I don’t think I’ve seen almost ANY of these points echoed in these ways over the last FIVE years, but you make a convincing argument for each. As a 28-year-old who has been watching Dragonball for the last 24 years - that’s 86% of my life for those keeping score - THANK YOU for articulating what I could only vaguely feel for so long.
Another reason why GT is so much better than most new gen shonen shows (espically super) is because of the stakes, there's literally an episode of GT titled "raising the stakes" I hoped I proven my point by now.
0:29 I mean, he kinda was near the end of his career. Even back in his prime years he's had serious trouble with consistency/not forgetting stuff (some of which he did on purpose, apparently).
This video sums up perfectly on what I think about both shows. Btw I don't like how detail-less super's designs are. Also, why did everyone has lost their gains and look oiled up the entire time?
Thank you so much for the super thanks man I really appreciate it🙏 I think a large part of the of the issue with the designs in super is the artstyle itself lol. It’s a totally different look to what it used to be
@KumoBear12 ikr? I've seen fan fixes for Super's color palettes and omg bro!! They're night and day. They also need to buff the characters up!! Why are they all so godamn skinny in comparison to Z? Future Trunks was built like a unit by the time he took down the androids, and they downsized him tremendously during Super 😑
Goku acting like a kindergartener in Super really did it for me. Couldn’t even make it to Beerus vs Goku. Didn’t like Bulma’s voice either which to be fair is not a huge deal because the Super VA isn’t bad either. GT Goku was phenomenal though. Not only was he a menace but he acted his age and you can tell how he has matured not just as a dad but a grandpa as well and it shows very well despite being in a kids body against his will. GT Goku has been my favorite Goku out of all.
Wasn't goku hiding under a chair because he was afraid of shots like a kid would? Plus I’m sure goku still did some kid like things like getting naked in front of two people to dive into water
Why does everyone think he trains for a day. He clearly doesn't, he trains with piccolo offscreen. I'm pretty sure piccolo shook off his rust and what we saw was a snippit of their training that was unlocking his potential.
the reason being that we go from Gohan literally tapping himself out by going Super Saiyan against Frieza (btw, a Gohan who had mastered Super Saiyan and could sustain it effortlessly) then he trained with piccolo on and off for roughly a year after the incident so he can atleast sustain Super Saiyan again, but he is still somehow weaker than Piccolo? (also, that he lost access to his ultimate form, which was said to be automatic after it being unlocked by the Elder Kai, it was never implied that he needed a certain "mastery" or "fitness" to access it, because, let's not forget that Gohan trained LESS after Cell than after Buu, but somehow Gohan could still go SS2 against Kibito effortlessly, while he couldn't even sustain SS1 against Frieza, Gohan didn't train at all during the 7 year time skip, which btw, would've been the most important years to train due to him growing up and needing to develop his muscles, while against Frieza was ... 4, maybe 4.5 years) but after the exhibition match, he trains 1 more day with Piccolo and ... unlocks Ultimate Gohan again, also that his entire personality went from Gohan to basically DBZ Trunks. Gohan has a gentle heart, he doesn't like to fight as much as Goku/Vegeta, yet when he trained with Piccolo he instantly becomes as cold as a terminator.
@@andyplays9493 toriyama originally wanted gohan to become the main character with the end of the cell saga and through the buu saga but changed it because people didnt like it as much and his editor wanted him too i think
Boo Saga is really a mess. I think Toriyama just changed his mind. Gotenks suppose to be stronger than Goku but at the end of the Boo Saga it was implied SSJ3 Goku is stronger than even Ultimate Gohan.
@@M3rtyville ssj 3 gotenks is stronger then ssj3 goku. But ultimate Gohan is the strongest character in the end (except buu han and vegito). He could have easily destroyed kid buu but goku just let him die when kid buu destroyed the Earth.
I like both, but I just try to enjoy the series. But if I had to pick one series to really like. I’d say GT. Even though I’m born in 2006, but I feel like I enjoy more old shows than new ones. Heck, Sparking Zero actually gave Gohan some character development. Shame it’s only a What If. But still though.
Born in 2003 and lately I’ve been watching old animes & playing old DB games, I honestly don’t regret going back and respecting my greats 🙏🏾. I grew up around dragon ball but never actually watched it with a full understanding of it until 2023 I watched the entire franchise and even bought the OG manga pack. I fell in love.
7:55 "Super Buu's back, guys, we have to- what? That's supposed to be the fat version of Buu? But he's not fat. He trained so he's buff now? Oh, I bet if he trained some more, he'd become a kid with black air forces."
While nobody could argue that GT is perfect, of course it isn't (and dare I say, neither is the original or Z). But it absolutely IS a good show, while Super isn't. The only arc in GT that isn't at least fine is Super 17, and even that isn't Garlic Jr or Resurrection F levels of bad filler. Black Star is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be just for being a little odd, either. Meanwhile, GT also has arguably one of the best arcs in all of Dragon Ball with Baby. Not to mention how great the ending is, and how naturally it fits with the two previous shows. The artwork is also consistently higher quality than Super's, and the music is better on the whole, too. GT is way more solid than people give it credit for, while Super barely has any redeeming qualities whatsoever, and its lows are cavernous.
Sorry but saying gt is good is a horrible, horrible take. They make Goku into a child simply because “he’s too powerful”. Which is disgustingly horrible writing. If you think he’s too powerful simply write him out the arc and make it so the next generation can take over which they never did. Vegeta still obsesses over surpassing Goku and made little progress at that until the final arc. Which he was conveniently given ssj4 simply bs plot device to create gogeta 4 which was simply a disgrace( outside video games of course). Ssj4 was and the baby arc were the only things from gt that were amazing. Other than that it was a terrible show definitely the worst db continuation to datw
Dragon ball super has its lows but also has its highs. Moro arc and the black arc. Most people refer to those arcs as some of the best arcs created since the cell arc in Z. Transformations like ssg, ui omen and mui. Very unique transformations with good back story’s and foreshadowing. Ssj blue is just a trash transformation imma keep it real. Also dbs did a good job of taking dragon ball of world and in discovering the universe and other universes. The whole Goku black arc happening cause of someone from universe 10, universe 7 going against universe 6, then going against 9 other universe at a tournament. Dbs has it flaws but is by no means a terrible show unless you’re just a hater
The one thing I'd say Super done right, is it brings hype, especially during the tournament of power, people are looking forward for ultra instinct so much during that time
black star is as bad as people make it out to be. I literally started watching Dragon Ball from start to end recently and could do like 3-5 episodes in a sitting and would want more. When it came to gt (which I still haven't finished/stopped), I could barely watch half an episode before wanting to turn it off. Both the fights and the story telling were wack, and by the time I caught a glimpse of baby, I didn't even feel like watching it anymore.
1:56 you kind of overlooked how Super Saiyan 2 was only really any different in a manga panel when Gohan used it… and only consistently different that first time, to the point where people still debate what form anyone was even using through much of the last arc of the series. After that first time it was used, Super Saiyan 1 and 2 became basically interchangeable, and 3 is… there, but never viable enough to affect the actual plot.
Regarding the transformation, SSJ4 is smart, but not just because of hair growth. It is a natural progression. SSJ3 brought the Goku close to the monkey he is (noticeable in his face). SSJ4 is the next stage, where he Goku balanced the monkey with his logical self. And getting there by transforming first into the giant ape makes perfect sense. Regarding the story, I do not think the basis is bad. The fights and dialogue were bad and very flat. But the story actually added to the franchise while giving it a proper conclusion.
You might even say the first showing of Goku's SSJ3 transformation has some foreshadowing to SSJ4 in retrospect because the scene shows his inner Oozaru and even some intermediate form that resembles SSJ4.
Because they wanted to keep pushing it and in the Mange it gets a lot worse.. The Moro arc destroyed Goku's character for not learning his mistakes and making it 100 times worse that it will make you actually hate Goku and the Gronolah arc destroyed Vegeta's character for being such power hungry and ultimately lose anyway and being so pathetic, I hope they will never put those arcs in the Anime and the Anime is already bad enough as it is
@@Not_obligated2care After Akira Toriyama's death, that's like the end of Dragon Ball.. Even Toyotaro or someone takes his place, I highly doubt they would animate these arcs, keep waiting forever for that buddy lol..
Easier to answer the reverse - Nice ideas in general, but terrible execution - Return to Dragon Ball' sense of adventure was good, but became formulaic real fast - Idea of Pan and Trunks tagging along was good, terribly executed. - Baby in general is a good concept - SS4 looked kinda cool? Except it only serves as a plot device; ironically the critique people have of Blue in Super. - Ending was good Everything else was low tier-to-trash. Super 17 being possibly the worst arc ever to come out of the entire series. And that includes the Dragon Ball Heroes promotional episodes.
This was a great video analysis bro! I never got into super to begin with, however once I was seeing that it was just the goku/vegeta show, I knew the creativity was out the window 🤣. Plus GT has one of the best endings I’ve ever seen which still makes me cry to this day 😭
You really hit the nail on the head for Super and GT in this video. For me, I've always looked at Super as soulless and cash driven, with lazy writing, characters we've known for 30 years acting nothing like themselves, copy paste transformations. GT isn't perfect, far from it, but at least it had soul and personality and also had good character writing. I honestly don't know how people can defend Super, if you genuinely think it's great then you don't know Dragon Ball.
Just a note from a physicist. Hyperbolic time in reality would scale hyperbolically to our liner perceived time. Which means the first day from outside would be one year inside, but then the second day from outside could be something like 10 years inside. It would quickly run away like that so after a few days, you'd be in the chamber for millions of years. They could have made that the reason for the two day limit.
2:40 : That's wrong. Goku explicitly says he could smash Buu easily in SSJ3, but decides not to since he's dead and therefore shouldn't be the solution this time. He explicitly tells Goten and Trunks to train so _they_ can protect the Earth. Toriyama has always been a terrible writer. GT is not worse than what came before in terms of plot. BUT you're right on abslutely everything else. I'll add the worst offender of all : the visuals. Super sucks. It's poorly animated and literally hurts the eyes due to how flashy and plastic everything looks. GT was the very last good thing TOEI ever made and it was terrific. It was the absolute peak of the Dragon Ball animation. Excellent shading all the time, the right amount of detail for an anime (not too much, not too little). The only thing I give credit to Super is Gohan's fight scene in the Ressurection of F movie.
People shit on GT way too much and are now realizing how good we had it back then. Sure it wasn't DBZ 2, but they followed the line of DBZ art, characters and even had the Baby Saga which was one of the best arks in the entire series. At this point Super and Daima is just nonesense...
@simonhenriqueesilvalima90 nah bro people are realizing how dumb they were underestimating GT for decades. Its not perfect but maybe when Daima came out they went and gave GT an opportunity and watched it or realized how good it was compared to what we have nowadays
@@miguelribeiro1601 man I used HATE GT so much back then, but I won’t even lie in these past 6 months I probly rewatched it about 8 times. I love GT a lot these days.
@@Not_obligated2care Im so happy for you bro, most people just hated GT cause it was controversial specially the fact the it was Pan going with Goku as kid, it kinda is underwhelming at first but it gets really good!
This might be the best video I've ever seen on RUclips on this subject matter,its so well put together and it's something I wish the devs and toei could sit down in and office and watch together before they continue to mess up the series even more or even go back to fixing something's like trunks hair color even if it's a minor change .
I am glad that others in the community feel the same way for DBS. The art design is something that really annoys me too, DBS characters look very skinny, DBZ and GT characters looked buff and amazing even with the washed colors, I wanted that in Super and immediately got bored because there was no intensity in the design or combat.
Apart from the writing, pacing, character development, etc. Just looking at the style and animation, I'd take the hand/ cel animation and shading over Super. I tried watching the first episodes when Super aired but it put me off masively. GT on a technical level is way more similar to Z. It's not about good or bad, it's just more my jame.
Thank you so much! I've been saying damn near all of this for years now, finally some one gets it and can explain it all properly. (I may not agree with some of your GT criticism but...) You seriously said it best.
@@KumoBear12 its def not as bad in Z and og they just kind a retconed picollo to be an alien but they fixed that now in diama and some dragon ball wishes but some might be not considered a retcon just outplaying the rules
If you look closely to dragonball and read the manga toriyama retcon shit since DB. Remember when the dead body needs to be preserved so they can get resurrected by shenlog? Now in Z schautzu returned even though he blowed himself up@@KumoBear12
@@DrJ19999 I wouldn't say that's a retcon when you take in the context of the different situations. Chiaotzu blew himself up yes, but he was also granted a new body upon death to go train with King Kai. Thus already having a pre-existing body to be revived in. People forget receiving bodies is a privilege and not the norm. It's likely the likes of those who died before the events of Z never received their bodies and were among the countless floating souls you see in the otherworld line, aside from the likes of Grandpa Gohan who became under the employ of Baba. It's why Goku didn't need to be revived from being a corpse when he died in the Raditz encounter. If anything they took his pre-existing body and gave it to his spirit form due to Kami. Then when he was revived all that was needed was his Halo to fade any whatever other factors that decide life to kick in. Sometimes not everything is a retcon, when the context of a situation opens up different paths, if it's not changing an established one.
"GT feels like it actaully could have been written by Toriyama... if Toriyama was a terrible writer." *Toriyama WAS a terrible writer. The original DB was a collection of tropes and popular ideas thrown together during the time ideas were popular in the mainstream. The reason you think its more than mediocre writing is because DBGT and Super suffered from significantly more literary dysfunction. DBGT tried to emulate the flaws of the original DB without recognizing that there were going to be more issues that would hold it back because it's a sequel, and DBS was a result of taking the popularity of DBZ ideas and rehashing the same ideas over again in the most incohesive fashion imaginable.*
@@KumoBear12 Because I wanted to hear what you had to say. Isn't it obvious? I'm not psychic. I hope you aren't taking things personally. I agree with you that GT is more cohesively written but it still is a mediocre literary piece. I recognize the flaws of DB and DBZ but I am still able to enjoy them for what they are. I hope you can do the same. I may not agree with you on everything but I acknowledge the effort and work you put into your video.
I disagree with the Trunks segment. The Trunks of the future from a different timeline had a colder demeanor bc he already experienced losing basically all of his loved ones. The Trunks of the main timeline didnt go through all of that so i think his demeanor shows pretty good awareness and depth from the writers actually.
Finally, someone who gets it. I don’t feel GT is that bad, maybe mid/almost good. But Super is worse than bad. I feel like if they ever re-do Dragon Ball from de OG to GT, with a artsytle similar to the 90's but for newer generation to actually see DB OG and Z, and change a bit some things in GT we would get Dragon Ball definitive edition.
To be fair beerus sleeps like a corpse and when supreme kai died he became an actual corpse his alarm clock is load enough to kill dbz super saiyan 3 goku
gt is not and will never be better than super if retcon was an anime it would be gt and if u actually watched the series you'd know but no db fans are dyslexic tards
@darthsacul3940 Yeah how that bandwagon going stop acting like it’s perfect it okay or good both have faults but both sides are so blind to one another
While Super is has its moments, GT just feels like a better written series and actually feels more real, where as Super feels more like someone took Dragon Ball elements and put them in a blender and the result was Super. I find myself going back to rewatch GT more than Super.
Fans can critique the direction or tone of a series, even if Toriyama himself created it. It’s possible to feel that GT (with minimal Toriyama involvement) captures the spirit of Dragon Ball better than Super even if it had more involvement. It all depends on how you personally view dragon ball
Someone sets the characters.
It's possible you're just really bias against something and it's colored your idea. People are less forgiving, and harsher when they aren't enjoying themselves.
And this backlash has lead to rose tinted GT glasses.
Though there is wiggle room in that there are things added to the Toriyama plots. So some things are toei or Toyo.
It's also possible you're idea of the characters is wrong.
Or a combination of things.
@@DSan-kl2yc Read it again
@@KumoBear12 same as the first time.
@@DSan-kl2yc Why would I have rose tinted glasses for something I really dislike?
It actually baffles my mind they created the Super Dragon Balls which are scattered in 2 Universes which would mean about twice the range of the Black Star Dragon Balls, yet, they area always collected off screen. 5 times to be exact and 4 of them were for pretty stupid wishes.
After that we got the Cereal Dragon Balls which consist of just 2 Dragon Balls...
Goku in the original series was never stupid. He was naive and goofy at times, but he matured to being a full adult who was just occasionally wrong.
The difference was that Goku just lacked knowledge. When he met Bulma, he didn't know the difference between boys and girls but then was able to understand it enough to have 2 sons, and in areas where he was taught a lot, like fighting, he knew exactly how to use that knowledge to excel.
@@CookieFiend519 BRO WTF ARE YOU SAYING??? You liked DB and DBZ right? They are well made adaptations to anime of Toriyama's manga. Maybe in DBS it's all Toyotaro's fault, he was the kind of guy that made DBAF cursed fanmangas. It's bad and cruel to say something like the creator needs to die for the series get better, even when it probably was other guy fault. Do you like Daima? Because I can definitely tell that have Toriyama style.
@@CookieFiend519 *TOYOTAROU* made Super, *DIPSHIT!* This reply just *MAKES YOU LOOK* like a *CLOWN.* 🤡 Go back to the *FUCKING CIRCUS, CLOWN* 🤡🤡🤡🎪
@ I don’t think it has much to do with Toriyama’s understanding of Dragon Ball. Yeah, he probably forgot some stuff, but it’s not like he scripted the show’s episodes. For the show, he basically just gave major plot points. How the scenes were scripted and handled were basically just Toei. The manga is better, but even that wasn’t scripted by Toriyama. He was given editorial power, but you can only expect that to go so far.
Goku was always meant to be a country hick, that's how Toriyama designed him. A country hick who selfishly wanted to fight strong opponents. Super is the more accurate depiction of Goku.
This video made me realize what makes Future Trunks so unique. He sees himself as a human and nothing more. His Saiyan powers as a tool to help humanity. He doesn't give a s*** about his blood or about fighting and doesn't have the weakness of Goku and Gohan of thinking maniacs that destroy planets for fun can be redeemed.
He is everything that Gohan should have been but never was. Someone who only fights because "great power comes with great responsibility" and is wiling to spill blood in the name of peace. He gets things done without getting distracted by pride or selfishness, unlike Vegeta.
It's a rare case where having less flaws actually makes a character feel more human.
Yep, and then Super just royally screws him in nearly every way. Even permanently destroys the future timeline he had spent his whole life defending and shoves him into another universe instead and just calls it a day.
Until DBS came in and erase everything of that future timeline
Now that you mention it, yeah! When he first showed up and eliminated Freeza, he was cool. But I suppose neither me, nor anyone else ever questioned how he became cool like that. He has his tragic backstory, which allowed him to grow, and see beyond ego, and bloodlines. And he's had far more than enough experience with destroyers who have no mercy.
In comparison, main timeline Trunks is actually kinda egotistical at least for some time, and does get rather prideful, and consider his blood.
I do think Gohan should have gone in a different direction, at least slightly. As shown at the start of Z, he's no warrior, and was raised with the double dreams for him of great scholar, and to be the strongest. Yet he gravitated more toward being a scholar, *especially* after marrying Videl.
@@mr.m1785 Gohan's characterization is the worst of all. He easily could have remained a fighter and stayed relevant, but Gohan has only ever existed as a plot device. That's why Toriyama completely ruins Gohan's character in the Cell Games with his "I hate fighting" nonsense that was completely contrary to his character up to that point, and then makes him lazy despite having every reason to post Cell Games to train, to the point he has to learn the same "I have to get off my butt and fight" lesson multiple times.
@@immortalfrieza Sorry I'm late! I didn't realize that was aimed at me until just now.
He kinda always hated fighting from the beginning, to the point he didn't really act against Vegeta or Nappa for the longest time. Sure, he got angry at Raditz, and later Freeza. But in general, he wasn't a full fledged fighter in any capacity other than power, and potential power for the longest time. After Cell was defeated, he chose to take time away from constant fighting, as he still loved peace, and hadn't really had a chance to do much of anything except fight. He studied under Chi-Chi, and although he did fight for a while again after attending school and meeting Videl, after he got married, he focused far more on his new family, and tried to support them. His was a constant sort of struggle between being a scholar, having a job, having a family, and not really having that much time to train. He occasionally started to, but never continued. In the anime, before the movies, he finally gets serious for the Tournament of Power, but afterward, I guess he goes back to his peaceful life until Super Hero. It would be great if he became a main fighter again, but for his character, he now has other things he cannot abandon.
GT feels like a poorly written love letter to Z
While super feels like a corporate cash grab at its finest
dummy
I take the love letter
Dont act like Z is a masterpiece. Z is poorly written as well lol
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203 Toriyama making constant ass pulls because he can't finalize the design of the villains and drags them out was always one of my biggest complaints. Never could really get into the Buu saga because of it
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203?
Also
I gotta say it
GT feels like an ending to original Dragon Ball in a lot of ways.
It feels like it wanted to circle back to what the original was doing and i don't hate what it did.
Dragonball was an adventure series first, power levels ruined it all
@@ashleymcmillan3379not really bc dbz is the best lol what ruined it is them simply making it kiddy. They fought the love sisters in top
as someone who is binged the entire Dragon ball series up to Db Super and broly movie just 2 month ago,
i think Super is good, it extend the lore and feels like progressing forward,
it inherit the Dragon Ball Z storytelling, felt like it's a natural continuation after Buu Arc.
i'm not a fans of the ending of Dragon ball Z, and Super felt like a well deserved redemption,
because there are still a lot of stories to tell
and this is coming from a clueless guy who knew nothing about Dragon ball just a couple of months ago,
db super managed to grab your attention from start to finish, which is a hallmark of Great storytelling.
sure, the beerus and golden frieza part is a bit slow,
and i'm not a fan of dumb Goku either
but, the Universe 6 vs 7 arc, Black Goku arc and Tournament of Power Arc are really good,
i can even say that it's comparable or better than Namek or buu saga.
i can see why Dragon ball is popular in the first place.
if you watch or read Db series from start to the latest db super, you'll realized that everything
is cohesive, it didn't felt like Toriyama stop back in the 90s
Meanwhile, GT feels like a filler, a very slow filler, i'm actually losing interest because
although it's like retelling the Original Dragon ball story, it retell the story with none of the excitement like the original one.
and it felt disjointed from the og, because Toriyama didn't involved in this, they also couldn't do anything
to expand the lore, therefore a very basic writing and relying more on archetype.
Goku and Trunk felt like a different character entirely because they can't fleshed out the character,
then i watched Super, this was the first time where i felt like these character come back to life again,
maybe if i grew up watching db GT, i would probably like it,
but it's so traumatic for me, to the point that i took a long break before watching the latest Dragon ball Daima
but i can see why people who grew up watching Z or GT didn't like Super,
i think it's because their perception is being skewed by Nostalgic reason.
but if you actually try to rewatch it again from start, to Z, to Super,
Super is actually really good,
i'm so glad that almost all of the character got their second chance to shine,
like Master Roshi, Tien, krillin, because they felt like being abandoned after Namek arc, outshined by goku.
it got its own flaw or plot holes, but that alone is not strong enough reason to hate it,
it's considered as Nitpick at best,
but considering the execution, the pace, and how it managed to grab your attention, the series is Great.
i can't take anyone opinion seriously if they took that one flaw, design or one plot hole as a sole reason to hate the entire series,
and ignoring a lot of things that they did right
@jensenraylight8011 Someone who binged it in modern day will never have the same experience or view.
I'm glad you enjoy it but Super is flawed on every level.
Characterization, plot, art style, animation, emotional beats.
There isn't a single thing Super did RIGHT in my opinion.
It is a power stroke off for people who weren't willing to let go of the character.
A fan fiction that Toei paid enough money to stamp Toriyama's name on.
@@jensenraylight8011 Saying that any arc in Super is better than the Namek arc is WILD. Saiyan saga-Cell Saga is peak Dragon Ball.
Trunks in z: your daughter calls me daddy
Trunks in super:I’ll have your daughter home by 7
😂
trunks was always a bitch. what did he do in the cell saga after killing frieza?
Trunks was always the: i’ll have your daughter home by 7 kinda guy
@@Yakonsupremacyyea Goten would probably be a better example since he hasn't done anything yet in Super, but in GT that boy had game for whatever reason
trunks in GT barely has 30 dialogues and he transformed into SSJ like twice the other times he was a useless punching bag without writing please stop commenting on internet retard
What makes Zeno erasing Trunks’ universe worse is that it wasn’t just the people who were alive who got erased, it’s everyone in the afterlife too. So his mentor Future Gohan got erased, his mom who had just died and maybe got reunited with Future Vegeta (unless he got purified and reincarnated) got erased, Future Goku got erased, Future Piccolo, etc. And he just doesn’t care?
Zeno is the absolute worst thing to happen to the franchise. There were lots of bad retcons, but now you have an ultimate tier of gods who don't care about life and casually destroys it, while keeping several universes enslaved under a system where it has invincible enforcers who are tasked with destroying planets for the smallest slight. Freezer ended up being subservient and permitted to do awful things and Goku is friends with everyone.
@@dansmith1661What do you want him to do? Fight zeno?
They weren't coming back anyway
@@dansmith1661plus, the Goku and Vegeta claim to have literal god tier power, but they can still get beaten by regular people who've trained hard (Jiren, Hit, Moro, etc.). We're expected to believe they can have the power to be Beerus's replacement some day but they're still too weak
@@dansmith1661I mean, Frieza was destroying both while Beerus was alseep and while Shin remained undertrained since Buu killed all the other Kais, including his mentor. Even still, for all his destruction, he spent his time making a profit and running an empire in orderly fashion, compared to Zamasu becoming a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Zeno really has no reason to kill Frieza when he not only isn't a threat to the multiverse and even now only stays focused on his own universe, but also is someone who can be dealt with by the people who have fought and beaten him before.
In Z leading into GT, Goku's primary concern was who would defend Earth after he's gone, and he trained Uub for that reason. In Super, he doesn't seem to care at all about that or anything else at all.
In the original work training Uub to protect the planet was part of his reasoning, but it was ultimately a selfish thing to do because what he REALLY wanted was someone to fight against.
Super goku is not THAT different from Z goku.
@@genoremsuper goku forgot what he learned from his training with kami, had to learn again how to control his transformation like with grade 4, couldnt tell it was beerus in a torn apart giant monaka suit, never kissed his wife, is overly joyful compared to how he was in Z especially at the end, doesnt care one bit abt gohan or goten and trunks growing stronger, etc etc
He’s very different from his Z counterpart
@@user-gd1no3gf6d Bro what are you talking about?
When did he forget anything from Kami? If your talking about the manga version where he realized he needs to apply all of his lessons from his teachers together to achieve Ultra Instinct then that's not forgetting.
I sure hope he'd have to learn how to control God ki, which is different from normal ki.
yeah, the Monaka thing was dumb filler, never took it seriously, in fact it was hilarious.
The kissing thing is a mistranslated joke.
Z Goku was CONSTANTLY in situations where he HAD TO take things seriously. Super Goku is not. Super goes a little too far with his aloofness in peace time, but he remains a straight up genius in battles.
Goku outright talks about wanting to let Gohan be who he wants to be and how he respects him for it. Chi-chi is clearly putting more effort into Gotens studies.
He's in a totally different environment than Z Goku who died, trained a year out of need, resurrected and put in the hospital, healing and training out of need, got his body stolen and beaten up, healed and escaped an exploding planet, took a year to learn Shunkan Ido, returned to Earth to train for 3 years out of need, had a heart attack, healed and trained out of need, died for 7 years, resurrected by Old Kai because he was needed to fight danger.
Super Goku is the most relaxed we see Goku outside the original Dragon Ball.
@@genoremafter rereading z Goku genuinely is an almost completely different character personality wise to super it's kind of insane
Probably because super is an interquel? Goku didn’t need to worry about the next savior because super is in between buu being washed by a spirit bomb and the 23rd world martial arts tournament, they haven’t even gotten to the point where he needs to start worrying
Gohan in the Boo saga: This all happened because I slacked my training despite being the strongest!
Gohan is super: Ups I did it again.
Buu*
@@UCeddWhatim pretty sure thats just buus name in the original japanese dub
Gohan got Beast mode wtf u talking about. Yes he slacked off at the beginning of the DB Super, but in later episodes he will train with everybody. He even said to Goku "Now I know why you always wanted me to train/fight/be ready" something along those lines.
@@robertasgar6387 "Yes he slacked off at the beginning of the DB Super" That was what I was talking about. He already learned that not training will fuck him up in the boo saga. Yet they made in super do it again like an imbicel who is not learning from his own mistakes.
@@neoteraflare I mean he always struggled with training, because he never wanted to be a fighter in the first place, he wanted a normal life. Gohan is more of a family person while Goku is all about fighting, he forgets that he has a wife or grandchildren, so it makes sense. And Gohan now takes it seriously, because he realized that his father , Vegeta, Piccolo won't always be there or that they sometimes might be not enough, so he started training now to protect his family and loved ones, not, because he likes it. So it really makes a lot of sense actually.
Goku is slightly dumb, but more than anything he was Naive. He grew up in the mountains and never saw a car, so when he first saw one he thought it was a beast like what he had seen. after being told it's a car he never had that problem again in Z. likewise, he wouldn't understand pregnancy at first, but after having a child of his own he would learn and understand. So 50 year old Goku in super has no reason to be as dumb as he is.
and i hate how they just rick and morty'd trunks's timeline
See this is my issue with people always calling Goku dumb. In Super I can't defend it we can all agree it was a character assasination. But in OG/Z he was never dumb. They always confuse that with naïveté and ignorance. If Goku was raised by loving parents, had an education throughout his entire childhood and still behaved the way he did he would 100% be stupid. But since he lived alone for pretty much his entire childhood in the mountains with no human contact besides Gohan for a few years what he does is completely normal. He never saw a car, never witnessed technology, never witnessed women, doesn't know what love is. Of course he would think a car is a beast to him or a woman like Bulma a witch or wouldn't know what a bride is lol or think lipstick is blood on lips. I would guarantee anyone else growing alone in those conditions in the mountains as a child with no contact to the outside world until 12 and no education or proper parents would probably be a lot worse off in the head. All things considered he adapted well.
Super goku is a genuine moron. He can't even count right.
Exactly. Goku’s problem was he was a naive farm boy who basically had to raise himself after grandpa Gohan’s death. The closest thing he had to a parent in the first episode was a spoiled rich 16 year old girl. He’s capable of learning. People forget Goku learned to drive a car.
like Timodoren stated, we cant sit here and say Goku is dumb. Numerous characters in Dragonball do and understand different things based on where they grew up and their environment. Bulma who grew up in civilization thought boys had tails after seeing Goku. Is she an idiot for thinking that? People get the reactions of characters to Gokus forward confusion, observations and questions as a sign of him being dumb when really its stupid that they dont understand that Goku wasnt brought up like alot of people.
Goku literally got hit on the head as a kid… dragon ball is a play on it self like running joke that took itself seriously. You people dnt be knowing wtf yall talking about fr
The main advantage GT has is that it moves the story forward (not always in a good way) so it feels like there is payoff. Super on the other hand is set in an intermediate period between the the time skip of the Buu saga, and so far shows little interest in going past the end of the original story. This puts DBS in a timeless vacuum where nothing feels like a regular timeline, and instead gives the feel of something like DC and Marvel comics.
One of my main issues with Super and why I wont go back to watching it again. I feel stuck with the story. Its way too commercial now to just ends. For me DB ended with GT's beautiful farewell.
Yes, but GT didnt rely on rehashing and repeating "iconic" moments or mechanics evrry 5 seconds.
@@Woodsarasand super doesn't? We literally got vegeta not wanting to fuse for 2 times in super just to recreate the scene from dbz
@@Anonymous20242 thats what im saying. Super is trash. Read again
@Woodsaras sorry i did not read it carefully, you're absolutely right man
Super shit the bed in the first scene of the first episode by portraying Goku as an actual re/ard who can't count to 10 without using his fingers, completely ignoring the fact that he actually learned arithmetic at the end of the original Dragonball.
He did the same thing in gt hero legacy movie also when has goku ever used math outside of fighting he a average student at best but a fighting prodigy
@@Mightymewing360average student does NOT need their fingers to count to ten bro
@@Mightymewing360Goku's confusion didn't come from having to count to ten. He was trying to figure out how many generations apart he was from Goku JR. It took him a minute before he just decided he was overthinking and it didn't really matter.
Clearly you weren't paying any attention to the show as always
Goku was trolling beerus especially when Goku said 1 trillion 2 trillion 3 trillion and said see, I can count to a trillion and proceed to giggle
Pay attention to the show and everything will make sense if you actually pay attention fake fans of Dragon Ball You and Kumo
I think the color design and character design in GT is phenomenal. It feels so.. weird, and futuristic but still familiar. Super, on the other hand, feels so bland. Compare Beerus or Jirens designs to final form Baby Vegeta. It’s not even close. GT could be annoying at times but it feels good to look at
Baby Vegeta has the worst design of any character in all of dragon ball imo lol. He definitely is vibrant though
GT Music was class as well!
i cant lie i just gotta disagree because Beerus's design is pretty dope. It's based on Toriyama's cat and also ancient Egyptian deities. He has a cool design but I can't lie neither that Baby Vegeta had a cool design, even if not too creative with the whole stealing bodies thing
@@daverave3561 I’ll meet you halfway and say that probably all of Super could look better if done with DBZ/GTs art and animation styles and color grading. There are some artist renditions on RUclips and Goku Black in DBZ art style looks amazing.
@@Subgenrelol I can agree. I really enjoy DBZ and GTs art style, but I feel like lots of the charm is lost in Super with just the overall lack of effort or care put into the art or animation as a whole. Dragon Ball Super: Broly is where my favourite art style is at- it's really simple but also very pleasing, and even if it isn't close to the original art style by any means, it still has a unique charm and something that reminds me of that style despite not quite being it.
I don't understand why people don't understand that Goku is just a simple Country Bumpkin and NOT a Moron
Because he straight up is a moron this is stated by literally everybody
You'd think being trained by some of the smartest people in the universe and being around Chichi would help stop that, only kid Goku I could give it to for being as stupid as he is in super or even daima
Goku is a moron
He can't even count right (in super)
@@leonardestes4732 he didn't know how to count in z ether
When i re-watch super im constantly thinking "why did they do this". For GT all i can think is that if it had better execution it would be pretty good
Pretty much lol
so u your just stupid
GT had a larger amount of good ideas than Super I feel, though I dislike the execution of many of them. Goku training up Uub amounted to nothing, Majuub amounted to nothing, Trunks and Pan mostly hindered Goku or did nothing. The whole Hell thing in the Super 17 arc was silly (why is Android 19 coming out of hell?), lobotomized Nappa grunting for 3 seconds, 18 getting folded by 17 easily (he was stronger but not by that much, no indication that he'd kept training as a park ranger, unlike the Super version). Many of the Shadow Dragons were poorly executed too...To be honest I kind of wish super had been a remake of GT, something that took place past End of Z instead of in the middle, I always disliked that part about it.
@@Lithiumize Honestly I wish they would just scrap super and start again, but have it take place closer to gt’s time
@@KumoBear12 why are fucking braindead if you want gt just watch gt,guy list so many problem with gt and you look and say good idea
I honestly don't think that GT was a bad series. GT was a better series than people give it credit for, especially its ending being the best ending of any dragonball series.
GT was garbo. Cope
@@dangerousdays2052so are u
GT was great. Super 17 sucked hot ass though.
GT absolutely was great. Folks get on this high horse about it being canon or not then that gets in their big brained way of actually enjoying the series.
GT feels like DBZ. Super, aside from the great animation, is KIND OF all over the place, still fun....but all over the place.
@@dexter_johnson truly
that's why my headcanon is that Dragon Ball Super takes place in the Dragon Ball Abridged universe
Which makes more sense abridged Goku is so like super's goku
Abridged isn't canon get out
Super had more involvement of TORIYAMA
Even though you made it headcanon
But for a fact
It will remain the original canon continuity
This is so dumb, abridged is a horrible joke that should’ve never been made.
@ It has some fun aspects if you ask me and is good atleast for some moments but not recommended to beginners
GT was a fine ending for the dragon ball series imo. Goku being a kid while everyone is older is a throwback to when the series first started showing how Goku evolved but still has the child like personality to him. The weird team of kid Goku, Pan his granddaughter and trunks the son of Vegeta his rival made the chemistry all the more interesting between them. It also brought back adventure to dragon ball and made finding dragon balls challenging again. Also SSJ4 is pure originality and a fine final SSJ transformation honestly. Also the legacy of Goku forever tears me up seeing how everyone passed on 😢 And pan being old with her grandson.
Damn... yeah, the end of GT was some tragic stuff, the old cast is gone, but I agree that the end hit hard
The ending was literally the only good thing about it. Vegeta was trash the whole series, Goku
Didn’t even care that Krillin died, SSj 4 and SSJ 4 Fusion were supposedly so powerful but neither was really effective when it really mattered.
@@brendonharris9310 dragon ball is goku, vegeta is even more trash in super, his whole personality is flipped, GT vegeta was far more mature while keeping his core personality intact and not bowing to some cat god lol
@@najeebshah. so vegeta not bowing to make sure his new family doesn't die is trash,then GT vegeta using a MACHINE to gain a new form is hot garbage
@ihat0094 buddy bowing constantly and not even thinking about murdering beerus one day, and using the machine when the earth is actually about to be blown are 2 different things , that too to kill the threat. In super vegeta has taken on the role of what piccolo was at the end of Z
Future trunks in super ain't the drink, he's the powder💀
buddy's the hydrogen
he’s the fart
@@fuf9359a wet fart
Sybau bro🤦🏽
@@fuf9359lol he's the drunk
You summed this up perfectly. The section with Future Trunks is probably the part I agree with the most.
The Super writers got mixed up since TOEI kept copyright claiming DBZA. So they thought Goku being dumb was canon.
😂
This is exactly how I've been expressing GT vs Super. Neither is really good, but GT deserves props for at least giving change and originality a shot.
originality?are you braindead?
I think both are good with their flaws & all.
Giving originality a shot : trying to rip off early og db and when they realize it's not working trying to do late Z stuff
@@raghmaneyou say this like nothing else changed. At least they tried to progress everyone's stories. Then we have super where vegeta, a main character, still wears his damn z armor like he hasn't been on earth for years.
@@that1zombi3kidhow dare Vegeta still wear his armour in super😡
What a tragic...
So many points brought up in this video that reminded me of various 4 hour+ discussions Ive had with friends in the past lmao
Great video tho I do love the slice of life episodes of Super & a handful of concepts but like GT both had their issues.
Tho 1 thing I think was underrated about GT was the fact most of the fighters wore street/casual clothes when fighting.
To me personally thats just a dope concept. Having a casual day out but then being ready to box on the spot haha
Thanks man! Yeah I agree with that last part, especially with goten and vegeta. Makes it a bit more realistic and feels like these people are just living their lives in a time of peace
yooo JaxBlade
The GOAT has spoken. 🔥🔥
That last part, hard agree
I don’t like GT except for very few things. Three of them are its ending, its Opening and Ending music themes, AND…GT Vegeta’s earth clothes.
Buu was supposed to be the literal ultimate threat from Z, so it makes sense for the writers to not want to make him look weak, but it definitely could have been handled better.
Wym? They already had beerus pummel everybody and then had Goku obviously far surpass that lol. They made everyone look weak, that’s why we get confused when they are able to do ANYTHING 😂
"not want to make him look weak"
Buu was wrecked by SSJ3 Goku
Was split in 2, weakening him significantly, and then was wrecked by his other half.
Was wrecked by Beerus
Won 1 anime-exclusive fight against a nobody before the tournament of power, and then proceeded to do nothing for the rest of the series.
Aside from the start of his own arc and Super/Kid buu who are for all intents and purposes completely separate entities, Buu already looks about as unthreatening as you can get.
@@An_Entire_Lime that's a lot of words that I'm not going to read.
@@wilfordgray1163 that’s pathetic
And what did Buu do in GT since we're comparing. Did nothing, merged with Uub, proceeded to get raped for the rest of the show.
My favorite aspect to Goku's GT design is it's kind've like a mesh of ideas between his purplish/blue gi he wore as a child, and his orange/blue gi he wore as a teenager and throughout his adulthood.
My biggest issue with Super was its tone. Aside from the Goku Black arc, nothing ever really felt at stake. There was no emotional tension or weight to the events of the plot, because not even the characters themselves gave a shit about what was happening (esp during the Tournament of Power where the side-characters just kinda chill at the bleachers). Even if GT was 80% filler, those emotional peaks resonated 10x's higher than anything from Super.
That’s my main complaint why care about the world being at stake when beer is could just kill them at ease it’s pointless berry’s is n out even a good character he’s just there
Goku Black arc lost all tension the moment the Zeno Button was introduced. It blows my mind how people believed the button would never be used...
@@M3rtyville The whole arc was a disaster. Poorly thought out and mind bustingly stupid and contradictory. Black and Zamasu or whatever is highly uninteresting and boring because his motivation is not explained enough.
@@mixkid3362 zamasu wants 0 mortals, knows that mortals are all over this signle planet, and could wipe the planet out with one shot, leaving the other planets intact (and is a god of creation in training, so he would definitely be capable of making new life if he wished) somehow this man, who has 0 reason to leave the earth in 1 piece, isn't just booming it.
@vla1ne yeah, but why is he doing any of this? Super in manga and anime doesn't really explain why he's doing this besides mortals destroy beauty. What is beauty to Zamasu?
Super Goku reminds of a slightly grown up TFS Goku.
frfr
but not funny
@@Snoopdog2034Yea, just dumb, wirhout the funny
they made a continuation of the wrong show
They searched Dragon Ball in 60 or less episodes and got there..... Even Lord Popo's rule no 6 got canon
Ironically one of the arguments I always hear for why GT haters hate GT is that Goku being a kid again felt like a regression of character but those same people like Super where there is an actual regression of character problem. GT for all it's faults at least understood where the characters arc would lead them. Krillin happily married, Vegeta becoming comfortable with earth being his home as well as caring about his family. Vegeta had the biggest respect placed on his character, his lines were great, his character felt like a positive and his respect for Goku showed so clearly, making it undeniable that he really changed after Goku beat Buu. Trunks may not have my favorite fit in GT but it's still grew on me after a bit.
Those same GT haters are also glazing Daima rn
@LyricMammal Ironically they were probably also hating daima before it released. Sometimes I feel like Dragon Ball has one of the most bipolar fanbases ever. Daima does look fun at least, I plan to watch it later when I can binge it.
so goku regression is not being serious all the time?
How can u say that super has a character regression when gt does that with every character but goku
What I don't like about gt fans is how gt fans tend say super goku regressed as a charter and fighter when everything super goku does where traits shown in z the top and goku making it was actually save the universe because Zeno was going to destroy it because he felt humans didn't care about their universe but let's even ignore that and say goku just did this to fight is this not same goku in the buu saga that risked human lives just so he could see if the next Gen could protect earth they will also say goku is a bad martial artist for using blue but in z and gt he uses ssj3 also they claim vegeta has grown and only cares about earth when he is mad about super 17 asking for goku and sometimes goes back to z vegeta bitter rivalry with goku and gogeta acting like gotenks 2 there are a lot more characters I could name in gt handled poorly or regressed some of the bad things u see in super is by their and arenot in super goku not kissing that fans complain about which is weird is no t present in the super Manga vegeta always being this person who wants to beat goku not present in the Manga in fact now vegeta is finding his own way of power and a transformation that fits his character unlike gt so most character problem u have are not in Manga and they are toei changes
No matter how old we are, we will always love DBZ.
Hell yea
Vegeta powering up because he made a promise to some random saiyan he met twice than the fact that his wife and kids(his new born baby including) will die if he doesn't win is absolute Bullshiete
The scene you’re talking about literally shows him thinking about his wife and kids
Cabba is such a boring character, it's like it is a version of Tarble Vegeta's younger brother, but somehow Tarble feel more interesting than Cabba
@@Omega-jg4oqHe is…especially him bootlicking Vegeta every time he sees him calling him “master” is so damn annoying. Even Vegeta told him not to call him that, but Cabba persisted anyways.
@@cobrazoid bruh is already calling him a master when he didn't spend much time with him 💀 and both Tarble and Cabba are weak, but Cabba still got some asspulls
@@Omega-jg4oq The wild part is how everyone in this thread did not understand the entire principle of Vegeta and Cabba was Vegeta spending their entire first meeting training him, and teaching him the pride of the saiyans, and trying to reunite with his race. That's Vegeta's ENTIRE CHARACTER. And Cabba respects him for it and wants to learn more, because the Salada saiyans have a drastically more peaceful and different upbringing.
No one mentions this: in Super, why does Vegeta wear his armor? He discarded the armor in Z. He discarded the blue tights at the end of Z and in GT. Also, why is Super Vegeta obsessed with surpassing Goku? Don't get me started on the Final Atonement 2.0.
in gt am surprise no one mention this:why does vegeta lost his pride and don't care about training anymore?why did they bring back every villain from movie in the series?why did they turn goku in a kid and make him go hunt for the dragonball are they trying to make it like db 2.0?
@@nickalas666 facts 😂 imagine making a big deal out of what Vegeta decides to wear
@@MajinUltraEgo gt fans are lunatics🤣🤣
@@nickalas666 1. Vegeta still trains, he just doesn't obsess over surpassing goku anymore. 2. They attempted to bridge the movies with the series I guess. 3. That is obviously the intention, just badly executed. Not like they did any different in the latest db daima.
@@nickalas666 They probably hate Daima as well even though that captures Toriyama's vision of the series.
i’ve been rewatching GT recently and i’ve realized GT is basically just OGDB and Z mixed together
They tried to mix the vibes together and I appreciate the effort.
Yes sir. I actually liked most of GT besides the Super 17 arc. Goku actually seemed like Goku
Yeah that was pretty much the goal. People just weren’t ready for it back then. Z is a classic but it’s mostly energy beams and transformations. You noticed more fans these days now appreciate the original DB as having better story and character development.
Yes that's always been the intention
Yeah, with some spacey 90s Vibe... Used to dislike it, but compared to Super, it feels like a masterpiece.
4:44 The good thing about Dragon Ball GT is that it brought some characters from the classics into this story like Lunch.
She appears in the final episode of the anime when she is older, raising her hands to help Goku make the Genki Dama.
In GT Gohan never stopped training, obviously he prioritized family and career but he also didn't neglect training because he knew that at some point he would have to fight again. In Super he doesn't train and realizes that he has become useless, he goes back to training so he doesn't do shit and ends up without training again.
no... Atsushi Maekawa, writer of of most of gt literally said that gohan abandoned fighting and los his ultimate form, i don´t know were you are taking that he still trains
@@J-manteca Its in the GT perfect files; In the files it explicitly states, that he never slacked off on his training. You can also tell with deeper analysis that he can stack his SSJ Transformation on top of his ultimate form.
Whe the hell cares if he was training without showing anything@@grandenigma9400
@@grandenigma9400the show makes zero indication one way or the other. Which is also part of why the show is bad.
Thats just an issue in the Buu saga and onward and Gohan doesn't even like fighting but he still did some training during the T. O. P and onward
The best way I could describe Super is that it's an officially made fanfic.
and gt isn’t?
Yeah like really gt feels more like fanfic especially with dragon ball af super by comparison feels original
@@Mightymewing360super feels original? That is just dumb, GT Bring a lot of good new stuff
gt feels like fanfic done by someone who actually knows about and respect dragon ball
super feels official, an official cheap cashgrab done by people who don't care for toryama's legacy
@@amberhide04
>gt
>respect dragon ball
if it respected dragon ball it wouldn’t have ruined the end of z by ruining pan and shafting uub
1:36 missed your opportunity to say “frieza but he beat the racist allegations” 😂
Lmaooo trueee
Super has so much more potential than GT, unfortunately, that potential was wasted by bad writing, character designs, and a lack of any 3 dimensional storytelling and characters.
Super Saiyan God, Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego, and Golden Frieza are all such cool concepts that don't get realised. Super Saiyan God being cool in the sense that it's new, it's not really a "Super Saiyan" transformation. It's something entirely new, and I think it's pretty cool (though it could be more than just a base reskin), but it's potential is wasted by a lack of screentime, and the fact that blue defeats any purpose of the form whatsoever. Any sense of purpose it had has been diminished, it's just a "stepping stone" for blue.
Ultra Instinct is, in my opinion, perfectly executed, I would argue that not only does it look cool, it's actually awesome for the narrative, it's the culmination of Goku's journey, every master he's had up until this point has been leading him to this point. Roshi, Korin, Popo, Kame, King Kai, and Whis, despite the differences each one has, they're drastically different lessons and designs, they all taught him one thing, mind, body, and soul must fight as one entity.
Super and GT weren’t completely bad, they’re just horrible when compared to Z
In a sense Super
Super might make it to the worst animes of all time list.
No it won’t drama queen
@@M3rtyvilleno
If it wasn’t for the spectacle and funding behind dragon ball, super would be absolute garbage. At least that’s how it feels.
GT feels like if they just had the proper support/funding/creative minds it would’ve been a perfect ending to the series.
I.e: GT feels like a poorly executed, yet phenomenal plan.
Super feels like a horrible plan that nobody wants to fail. So they put every last resource into making what they have look pretty.
I always wondered, maybe GT is canon to the movies. It feels more like what they did with the movies and their faster pace and awesome battles. That, and the fact Cooler popped out of Hell in GT!
Yes, that’s confirmed if I remember correctly. That’s why Goku does the dragon attack from wrath of the dragon
@@KumoBear12 Aah, ok, never knew this was actually confirmed. Would also explain the Gogeta fusion ofcourse.
Not just Cooler, you see several movie villains in the background scenes of the Super 17 arc.
I loved the movies, and it's interesting to imagine them having a separate canon of their own. They take place far enough apart that you COULD do something like that. Events would have to go very very differently though.
GT Vegeta is one of my favorite things ever, it's a shame he'll never get that insane earthling drip again.
Edit: This was just a comment praising his design, and now i have a whole debate here, jesus christ.
Gt Vegeta is character assassination he’s absolutely weak and it’s a shame to watch him throughout get used as a pawn for ssj4 gogeta. Super been giving Vegeta way more credit tbh.
@@Coolnamatadayou can cope Vegeta accepted Goku was superior to him in almost all ways possible at the end of dbz
GT understood this and in the end allowed him to be on par or around Goku level however Super does the opposite continuing regressing him but giving him extra unneeded character growth which goes nowhere btw Vegeta continuously yaps about being stronger than Goku when it’s never happened doesn’t matter if Goku never beaten Vegeta in a fight all that matters is Goku has continuously been superior to Vegeta in every arc against a main villain he’s defeated Jiren Moro etc and antagonist like Zamasu or Gas he’s put a much better fight than Vegeta
Vegeta in super is just that guy who gets beaten up waiting for backup to show and it’s sad really when Vegeta got ssj4 in GT he managed to control the form and understand its structure much better than Goku did Vegeta said if he masters the form he could surpass Goku easily but He chose not to as like I said earlier Gt Vegeta doesn’t care anymore and isn’t obsessed with Goku anymore
@@swampfire9382 You are delusional lol. GT Vegeta was FAR more obsessed with Goku than Super Vegeta is. In fact, GT Vegeta even went as far as to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to play catch up to Goku (he admitted it himself) meanwhile Super Vegeta earned his own unique transformation through his motivation to protect Universe 7. GT Vegeta is the one that still chasing Goku, not Super.
GT Vegeta in the 17 Arc threw a whole temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku more than him and even went as far to yell "I'm number one here" (which goes against his speech in the Buu Saga). There is not a single instance of Super Vegeta getting angry over the fact that everyone prefers Goku however.
There is no "regression" with Super Vegeta, I'm so sick of ignorant fans throwing that word around every time Vegeta does something they don't like. And your complaints make ZERO sense, how can a character be "regressed" and also have "unneeded character growth"? You just contradicted yourself because if he has character growth then he is by definition not "regressed". And there's no such thing as "unneeded" character growth in the first place. And no, at no point in Super does Vegeta ever claim to have gotten stronger than Goku.
All this talk about GT Vegeta being "mature" and "developed" is just delusional headcanon from GT fans, because almost all of his major scenes in GT show the opposite.
GT Vegeta never won a single fight while Super Vegeta has won MULTIPLE fights including against Goku Black (the main villain who beat Goku 3 times).
GT Vegeta never mastered SSJ4 (you lied about that) while Super Vegeta mastered every transformation he's ever gotten except Ultra Ego.
There's no contest who's the objectively better character.
@@swampfire9382 That's completely false GT Vegeta was FAR more obsessed with Goku than Super Vegeta is. In fact, GT Vegeta even went as far as to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to play catch up to Goku (he admitted it himself) meanwhile Super Vegeta earned his own unique transformation through his motivation to protect Universe 7. GT Vegeta is the one that still chasing Goku, not Super.
GT Vegeta in the 17 Arc threw a whole temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku more than him and even went as far to yell "I'm number one here" (which goes against his speech in the Buu Saga). There is not a single instance of Super Vegeta getting angry over the fact that everyone prefers Goku however.
There is no "regression" with Super Vegeta, I'm so sick of ignorant fans throwing that word around every time Vegeta does something they don't like. And your complaints make ZERO sense, how can a character be "regressed" and also have "unneeded character growth"? You just contradicted yourself because if he has character growth then he is by definition not "regressed". And there's no such thing as "unneeded" character growth in the first place. And no, at no point in Super does Vegeta ever claim to have gotten stronger than Goku.
All this talk about GT Vegeta being "mature" and "developed" is just delusional headcanon from GT fans, because almost all of his major scenes in GT show the opposite.
GT Vegeta never won a single fight while Super Vegeta has won MULTIPLE fights including against Goku Black (the main villain who beat Goku 3 times).
GT Vegeta never mastered SSJ4 (you lied about that) while Super Vegeta mastered every transformation he's ever gotten except Ultra Ego.
There's no contest who's the objectively better character.
@@lukejones7164this is so stupid and false shows how you never watched GT
1. Vegeta didn't cheat he only used the machine to go ouzarou but he went ssj4 on his own and if you actually watched the show Vegeta said he wanted to get stronger to test his limits as he says ealier in the show which is why he is interested in ssj4 not for goku but to test his limits
2. Vegeta gets unique transformations in DBS dude what transformations? The one is Ultra ego which literally just vegetas version of Ul and blue Evolution which is the most barebones form ever didn't even use it in Broly
Super Vegeta literally making up a form to mimic UI goku shows that he is far more obsessed with goku then GT vegeta was
3. Please explain this
4. Every time someone talks about goes goku is stronger vegeta always scoffs so clearly he is ticked about how someone is akoloaging this
5. There literally is a regression
Buu saga Vegeta said goku is number 1 and you even mentioned thay when yoy claimed GT returned Vegeta
EOZ vegeta aknolages goku as a friend instead of a Rival he still is in GT and EOZ but its not as bad as ir was in pre buu arc where vegeta was having nightmares
And also super also shows he has regressed based on his clothes
In Sayain saga we wears all armor
Namek saga he looses the waiste pads
Android saga he only has the Body armor
Buu Saga he only wears the Blue Jumpsuit
EOZ he only wheres the gloves
GT he's fully wearing Earthling clothes
It shows how he processes and accepting of being a earthing but Super ruins this by making vegeta go back to his Cell Saga outfit which is ironic given how he acts like a mix of Cell Saga vegeta and Buu Saga Vegeta
6. Gt vegeta doesn't win a single fight
Lmao don't mess with us dragon ball fans we don't watch the show
Dude he beat Baby Gohan and Goten in a 2v1 but baby ended up getting control over him via a cut on his cheek and that's all he needed
And name those time she won against black LMAO
Overall watch GT instead of making this braindead post
Goku GT is about 42 years old, already a middle-aged man but in a child's body and I actually like this concept of Goku being so strong in the story that Toei decided to nerf the character so they could work The story is better, unfortunately they made mistakes in some things but got other things right and in the end, they got the ending of DB GT right.
This video is so relaxed, firm about the points it’s making yet not screaming in ur face about it. Along with providing ample evidence to backup said claims + a good sense of humor.
Sub earned, peak vid!’
Thank you😄
7:31 I love how in GT when vegeta suggests fusion dispite it being obvious he’s still a bit flustered about it. It shows not only growth but that a tiny bit of vegeta still resides like “fuck this idiot but we’re kinda bones so let’s do this.” I love it.
GT Vegeta actually feels like a natural progression after Z. It's a shame people mock this version of his character because of the moustache.
@@kevintanza6968nope not the mustache his character is assassinated in the series. Simple. Gt vegeta is not my Vegeta. Y’all cool with the watered down version of vegeta in gt who gets beat up by all the villains beat up by Gohan and goten and got his body snatched and is more of an earthling than actual saiyan. Nah I prefer the super vegeta where he’s beating his enemies getting new forms and not just a component for fusion.
@@CoolnamatadaVegeta beating his enemies huh? You mean the guy who lost to literally every arc's antagonist since his introduction? This is bait for sure, no way someone thinks like this unironically
@ toppo? God of destruction? Yeah ok you missed that show me a Gt vegeta kill besides from nappa then we can talk. Oh and I’m not talking about the Vegeta who’s body got controlled a whole arc.
@@enzomercier2789 yes i definitely think like this i guess you didn’t read where vegeta goes to planet yardrat, trains with a god of destruction and achieve a form on par with a technique angels use. In gt vegeta uses a machine to reach ssj4. Go cope. Super vegeta is way more vegeta than gt ever provided don’t get me wrong i actually love gt for the nostalgia and cool moments but story wise it didn’t do a good job keeping the characters accurate. Everyone is washed up. It’s pitiful yeah gt Vegeta was stronger than gohan and goten but still got washed up by him, Gohan was dragging him thru concrete Vegeta stupidly raises his ki just to get his body snatched and rescued by Goku. Dbs Vegeta > Gt Vegeta. I love gt but it’s the truth
Thank you! I'm tired of people defending Super and shitting on GT, when despite its setbacks, GT actually feels like it's part of the DB universe. Super has legit turned into the Dragon Ball April Fools meme
Right right, Toei's crashgrab feels more part of Toriyama's universe than Toriyama's own continuation of the series
gt is trash way trash aint no way ur defending a show that has people sensing androids ki android btw
@@JasonAkuain’t know way your defending that trash dbs show that brought trunks back for fan service then erased his whole timeline for shock value
It also doesn't help that on a pure visual standpoint,..it's more interesting to watch GT due to it being Cell animated,...I can never get over the wonky visuals of Super
@@freshypool6385let’s talk about all those scene of pan getting violated tho, at least super ain’t on no predator nonsense.
Videos don’t normally hold my attention from beginning to end but this was so well done and argued that I couldn’t put it down. Bravo 🎉
It's insane how I've had every one of these thoughts myself.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
Same. I dont know nobody on the internet. Unfortunately.
Now that I think about it, an easy solution for Bulma's/Trunks's hair inconsistency is have a scene where Bulma is getting her hair dyed (because of her mid-life crisis) and reveal that her natural hair color is purple, she's just been dying it blue since she was 16.
Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one that dislikes that Bulma's hair style stagnated in Super. I miss her experimenting with it in Z.
Idk why but that is also a small detail that I loved about Bulma in Z that makes it odd seeing her in Super now. It was cool to see her in a new character design every few episodes and made her more genuine cuz that’s what girls in real life actually do lol.
@calleocho2107 Adventure Time did that too with PB and Marceline, and it had a similar effect.
Pre-Namek Bulma (when Goku was in the hospital) is peak btw.
@@DominatorLegend Yeah, that's a good one. I'd certainly like if she got long hair again, I think that looks better on her.
Or just change it like Nico robin in one piece she was dark skinned until she has lighter skin later on
GT was good i don't care what you haters say. Definitely not my favorite but still good
We are different. I hate GT, i think its stupid executed what ruins it for me but as a Dragonball fan i want that you can enjoy all of dragonball as much as possible. So please enjoy it, i will never hate a fellow dragonball fan just because he likes one of the series what are not for me :)
Totallynotmark will not win (he did but I want to still enjoy things)
It's not bad but some people start overrating GT now and it's annoying
@@NickZz_275in wich world you living?? Gt has always been downplayed and underrated but never overrated
GT was alright, i felt like it was slow but I did enjoyed it
I love how GT Goku's outfit is basically what he wore in the Dragon Ball Path to Power movie.
13:49 can we talk about how bad a character zeno is? from his very concept to how characters like goku treat him, fat buu was the eact same idea a todler with the power to wipe out the universe and the lack of restraint to keep him in cheak, everyone and goku treated him as a villain to deffeat, but now with zeno its meant to be cute... why does zero fans have a problem with this character.. why has my commenting this same problem never once been even responded too by any other fans... why does no-one else care about this massive fu cked up plot hole with goku and how he's written???? iv been asking this question for years now, and no-one has even had the balls to respond to it... it sucks, seeing a problem no-one else does.
@@shardinhand1243 I agree, I really dislike Zeno. The only good thing about him is that he reinforces the idea that there is always someone stronger, but even that is executed in a pretty wack way. Like I said to someone else in the comments, it’s kinda weird and creepy that they all have to perform like circus animals for him so he doesn’t commit atrocities and murder trillions of people
Zeno is somewhat of a mystery?? He doesn't seem mentally as a much a child as his appearance gives off. He may just be playing coy a lot of the time.
@@Jiron127 i mean, nothing as ancient or as powerful as zeno should have such a simple child like mind, or be so indiferent to entire universes of people, i hate that direction in particular, i much prefured the kais and supreme kais being in charge, theyre didint need to be a higher tier making them irelevent, and the angels and gods of destruction already served the story function of being that higher level of power for goku to reach for.
Tell that to owl house with the collector
@@Mightymewing360 yeah that too, in general i dont like the idea of all powerful babies, the cool thing about how owl house handles the idea is that the collector doesint cannonicly butcher countless worlds of inocent people like zeno has, he's fu ck ups are not praised peopel try to reason with him to be kinder and consider others lives, and unlike zeno, it works, a well handled example of a character archtype i normaly absolutly hate....
i always felt like DBSuper was a spit in my face as a Dragon ball fan
Being a bit overdramitc much it’s a fine show your acting like any of these series a flawless there all good watches
@Mightymewing360 again, it's their opinion. Personally, I agree that Super really was a downgrade from Z, but it had okay moments, especially the TOP
Amen 🙏
GT especially understood the character of Vegeta. The Vegeta in GT is the fully realized version of Vegeta that I was hoping to get in Super. Instead he’s still stuck on the “I need to surpass Kakarot” thing.
It’s like his speech while watching goku fight Buu never happened. No “you are number one kakarot”
Some fans don't understand that just because he ended his obsession with Goku, doesn't mean he has to stop training.
In GT, he trained to surpass his own limits, to see where his power goes. And it was healthier this way. He found his own intrinsic power, even surpassing Goku because of it.
Whereas in Super, he's right back to "I wanna surpass Kakarot, I WANNA, I WANNA!!", going right back to the unhealthy obsession that hindered him in the long run.
I especially hated his first lines in super where they basically confirm this. His first lines go something like "I know I admitted you as best, Kakarot, but I will never give up trying to surpass you!" which completely negates the *MEANING* behind that statement.
Could not disagree more. Vegeta giving up fighting, getting out of shape, eating donuts and then requiring an outside source, Bulma, to help him advance without training and hard work is completely antithetical to everything we know about the character from Z. In Super he's a true rival to Goku, as he should be, not just a jobber used to power scale every villain.
@jondiaz3329
1) He did not do either of the first 3. He trained, but not to surpass Goku. Rather, it was to surpass his own limits, find his own strength rather than beat someone else. It was healthier and did more for him long-term than his training in Z ever did.
2) You say that like getting help from Bulma is a weakness. It's only a weakness if, like Z Vegeta, you think your own strength is all that matters. In GT, however, Vegeta realizes he can't go it alone. He trusts Bulma to help him.
He's more than just Goku's rival.
Probably the only thing i like from DBS Trunks and Future Trunks is their personality differences. Future Trunks acts as an earthling, and doesnt see pride or his saiyan blood as something important, because he was raised by Gohan. DBS Trunks on the other hand, shames him for not having those traits, because he was raises by Vegeta. Its kinda wacky, mainly because Vegeta shouldve let his pride behind, but with given circustances, its a good dialogue and a good counterpart.
The accumulated brain damage is catching up to goku in super XD
In gt too don’t act like he didn’t have dumb or weird moments in the show that didn’t involve him in fights
@Mightymewing360 idk in gt it was more like how goku has always been
For me I just prefer Super Saiyan 4 over SSJG, as a concept makes the most sense. It doesn't break scaling formula, the made the form look like the peak of natural Saiyan biology (as human monkey men), and the Oozaru going Super Saiyan, is just a genius combination, as well as them taking it from the filler from Vegeta's memory of the first primitive Super Saiyan being that form itself. Its logical and lore-friendly. As well as the symbiology of it "repeating history" on Baby Vegeta's new Planet Tuffle he wished for. It was just a brilliant execution. GT Goku also being a kid (unlike Daima) and re-growing his tail actually served a purpose. He had his Z strength but his body handicapped his full power. Then SSJ4 broke the spell and made him an adult in that form because of its power, and SSJ4 essentially giving Goku a new body post-Oozaru. I also prefer that GT Goku acted more like Buu arc Goku, rather than what we have now where Goku just acts very childish and dumb. GT Goku's personality was closer to Z. I also like the art design of most of the characters more form Nakatsuru. Except for Goku Black and Zamasu, I'm not a fan of most of the character designs in Super. To me, GT's best areas feel closer to Z or the Z movies, than Super does. Super doesn't feel like Z to me.
Super just feels like it only exists just to appeal to fan *perceptions* of the franchise. The characters being all flanderized, with no real motivation anymore other than "protecting the Earth", Goku being really dumb now, the intense focus on Goku & Vegeta, transformations pulled out of nowhere with no real build up or sense of earned attainment, training is all of screen, Whis & Beerus won't go away, we have an Evil Goku and a White-haired Goku, Inconsistent scaling, fan-fiction like relationships (Mai and Trunks which is just random), God ki feeling like it was fan-made and it breaks the logic of the series, and the Super Saiyan God thing, the ritual just doesn't really feel like it fits with Dragonball to me.
GT's ending also feels very reminiscent to the Cell arc ending. It keeps the theme of Goku ending up leaving his friends behind in some way at the end of each arc. He either dies, chooses to stay in otherworld, or in GT goes off with the Dragon. Super feels like everything is both an asspull and stuck in status quo limbo.
you know now i'm just realizing that anytime someone with a removed tail comes back to life, he should regrow it.. his body's being regenerated, right? he should probably have a beard too, if they really can grow them. I've never been comfortable with that, I mean I want them to have beards but I feel like they have spent way too much time isolated in one place obviously without any shaving supplies, and with zero reason to do it. Maybe they only grew in in their 50s.
thank you SO MUCH for zooming out and posting what is effectively a MAJOR counterpoint to the popular opinion.
I don’t think I’ve seen almost ANY of these points echoed in these ways over the last FIVE years, but you make a convincing argument for each.
As a 28-year-old who has been watching Dragonball for the last 24 years - that’s 86% of my life for those keeping score - THANK YOU for articulating what I could only vaguely feel for so long.
Another reason why GT is so much better than most new gen shonen shows (espically super) is because of the stakes, there's literally an episode of GT titled "raising the stakes" I hoped I proven my point by now.
0:29 I mean, he kinda was near the end of his career. Even back in his prime years he's had serious trouble with consistency/not forgetting stuff (some of which he did on purpose, apparently).
Launch
SSJ2
Tails
And the flying nimbus
Actually (not to defend Super Gohan) Gohan didn't train for a day but he trained for a year with piccolo
@@PokéGamer-m7d Really? Maybe I missed something, when was that stated?
@@KumoBear12 At the end of Ressurrection F.
@@Kelps.mp4 Ohhh yeah your right my bad. Not that a year of training with piccolo should have been enough anyway, but yeah I forgot that
No, that training he did for a year only brought him to below SSJ Goku Level.
Gohan went from Below SSJ Goku Level to SSJB Goku level in a day.
@@Limitless94829 Man how did that happen again? My memory on this is foggier than I thought lol
This video sums up perfectly on what I think about both shows. Btw I don't like how detail-less super's designs are. Also, why did everyone has lost their gains and look oiled up the entire time?
Thank you so much for the super thanks man I really appreciate it🙏 I think a large part of the of the issue with the designs in super is the artstyle itself lol. It’s a totally different look to what it used to be
@KumoBear12 ikr? I've seen fan fixes for Super's color palettes and omg bro!! They're night and day. They also need to buff the characters up!! Why are they all so godamn skinny in comparison to Z?
Future Trunks was built like a unit by the time he took down the androids, and they downsized him tremendously during Super 😑
I'm still waiting for the follow up to GT. Dragon ball AF. That SS5 form had me so excited lol. Never stop believing.
Goku acting like a kindergartener in Super really did it for me. Couldn’t even make it to Beerus vs Goku. Didn’t like Bulma’s voice either which to be fair is not a huge deal because the Super VA isn’t bad either. GT Goku was phenomenal though. Not only was he a menace but he acted his age and you can tell how he has matured not just as a dad but a grandpa as well and it shows very well despite being in a kids body against his will. GT Goku has been my favorite Goku out of all.
Wasn't goku hiding under a chair because he was afraid of shots like a kid would? Plus I’m sure goku still did some kid like things like getting naked in front of two people to dive into water
@@Mightymewing360 Goku hated shots even in Z bro. He’s hated shots his hole life and I don’t blame him. Lol
@@Mightymewing360bro shut up
Why does everyone think he trains for a day. He clearly doesn't, he trains with piccolo offscreen. I'm pretty sure piccolo shook off his rust and what we saw was a snippit of their training that was unlocking his potential.
the reason being that we go from Gohan literally tapping himself out by going Super Saiyan against Frieza (btw, a Gohan who had mastered Super Saiyan and could sustain it effortlessly)
then he trained with piccolo on and off for roughly a year after the incident so he can atleast sustain Super Saiyan again, but he is still somehow weaker than Piccolo? (also, that he lost access to his ultimate form, which was said to be automatic after it being unlocked by the Elder Kai, it was never implied that he needed a certain "mastery" or "fitness" to access it, because, let's not forget that Gohan trained LESS after Cell than after Buu, but somehow Gohan could still go SS2 against Kibito effortlessly, while he couldn't even sustain SS1 against Frieza, Gohan didn't train at all during the 7 year time skip, which btw, would've been the most important years to train due to him growing up and needing to develop his muscles, while against Frieza was ... 4, maybe 4.5 years)
but after the exhibition match, he trains 1 more day with Piccolo and ... unlocks Ultimate Gohan again, also that his entire personality went from Gohan to basically DBZ Trunks.
Gohan has a gentle heart, he doesn't like to fight as much as Goku/Vegeta, yet when he trained with Piccolo he instantly becomes as cold as a terminator.
Mfs be forgetting how gohan surpassed gokus power level as a 4 year old by getting a little mad in the saiyan saga
@@andyplays9493 he loose all that power later so doesn't really matter. He truly surpass Goku one he actually train with Piccolo
@@andyplays9493
It was sporadic and uncontrollable, whereas now he's actively trying to hone that power.
@@andyplays9493 toriyama originally wanted gohan to become the main character with the end of the cell saga and through the buu saga but changed it because people didnt like it as much and his editor wanted him too i think
2:39 Actually Goku could beat Majin Buu with SSJ 3, he just chooses not to because he's dead and wants to leave it to the next gen
I thought it was to limited time bit it's been long time since I watched it tho
Boo Saga is really a mess. I think Toriyama just changed his mind. Gotenks suppose to be stronger than Goku but at the end of the Boo Saga it was implied SSJ3 Goku is stronger than even Ultimate Gohan.
@@MrKingkz not a time limit problem. Goku was punching buu like a ping pong ball and then Gaslighted buu into killing Babadi.
@@M3rtyville ssj 3 gotenks is stronger then ssj3 goku. But ultimate Gohan is the strongest character in the end (except buu han and vegito). He could have easily destroyed kid buu but goku just let him die when kid buu destroyed the Earth.
@@Shu_bro Daima disagrees
I like both, but I just try to enjoy the series. But if I had to pick one series to really like. I’d say GT.
Even though I’m born in 2006, but I feel like I enjoy more old shows than new ones.
Heck, Sparking Zero actually gave Gohan some character development. Shame it’s only a What If. But still though.
Born in 2003 and lately I’ve been watching old animes & playing old DB games, I honestly don’t regret going back and respecting my greats 🙏🏾.
I grew up around dragon ball but never actually watched it with a full understanding of it until 2023 I watched the entire franchise and even bought the OG manga pack. I fell in love.
7:55 "Super Buu's back, guys, we have to- what? That's supposed to be the fat version of Buu? But he's not fat. He trained so he's buff now? Oh, I bet if he trained some more, he'd become a kid with black air forces."
When he fuses with Uub, do they become Buub?
@@MrDj232 No, that would be Majuub.
Consider how rubber his body is and can change his face like he did so he can impress a girl him changing his body like that doesn’t bother me
Kid buu is weaker than super buu so no
While nobody could argue that GT is perfect, of course it isn't (and dare I say, neither is the original or Z). But it absolutely IS a good show, while Super isn't. The only arc in GT that isn't at least fine is Super 17, and even that isn't Garlic Jr or Resurrection F levels of bad filler. Black Star is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be just for being a little odd, either. Meanwhile, GT also has arguably one of the best arcs in all of Dragon Ball with Baby. Not to mention how great the ending is, and how naturally it fits with the two previous shows. The artwork is also consistently higher quality than Super's, and the music is better on the whole, too. GT is way more solid than people give it credit for, while Super barely has any redeeming qualities whatsoever, and its lows are cavernous.
Sorry but saying gt is good is a horrible, horrible take. They make Goku into a child simply because “he’s too powerful”. Which is disgustingly horrible writing. If you think he’s too powerful simply write him out the arc and make it so the next generation can take over which they never did. Vegeta still obsesses over surpassing Goku and made little progress at that until the final arc. Which he was conveniently given ssj4 simply bs plot device to create gogeta 4 which was simply a disgrace( outside video games of course). Ssj4 was and the baby arc were the only things from gt that were amazing. Other than that it was a terrible show definitely the worst db continuation to datw
Dragon ball super has its lows but also has its highs. Moro arc and the black arc. Most people refer to those arcs as some of the best arcs created since the cell arc in Z. Transformations like ssg, ui omen and mui. Very unique transformations with good back story’s and foreshadowing. Ssj blue is just a trash transformation imma keep it real. Also dbs did a good job of taking dragon ball of world and in discovering the universe and other universes. The whole Goku black arc happening cause of someone from universe 10, universe 7 going against universe 6, then going against 9 other universe at a tournament. Dbs has it flaws but is by no means a terrible show unless you’re just a hater
@@reynoldnjoku9735I mean, yeah? As a continuation of dragon ball both gt and super suck, but as self contained stories gt is at least entertaining.
The one thing I'd say Super done right, is it brings hype, especially during the tournament of power, people are looking forward for ultra instinct so much during that time
black star is as bad as people make it out to be. I literally started watching Dragon Ball from start to end recently and could do like 3-5 episodes in a sitting and would want more. When it came to gt (which I still haven't finished/stopped), I could barely watch half an episode before wanting to turn it off. Both the fights and the story telling were wack, and by the time I caught a glimpse of baby, I didn't even feel like watching it anymore.
11:04 What the author meant:
The Drink lost his liquidity
Omg I was actually going to put a drink meme in the video how did I forget lmao
THEY CALL HIM THE WHAT!?
@@BlastingBigLoads2 A BEVERAGE OF SORTS!?
1:56 you kind of overlooked how Super Saiyan 2 was only really any different in a manga panel when Gohan used it… and only consistently different that first time, to the point where people still debate what form anyone was even using through much of the last arc of the series. After that first time it was used, Super Saiyan 1 and 2 became basically interchangeable, and 3 is… there, but never viable enough to affect the actual plot.
Regarding the transformation, SSJ4 is smart, but not just because of hair growth. It is a natural progression. SSJ3 brought the Goku close to the monkey he is (noticeable in his face). SSJ4 is the next stage, where he Goku balanced the monkey with his logical self. And getting there by transforming first into the giant ape makes perfect sense.
Regarding the story, I do not think the basis is bad. The fights and dialogue were bad and very flat. But the story actually added to the franchise while giving it a proper conclusion.
What would ssj4 look like without eyebrows like ssj3 would you still like it or less it’s just a question
i never thought about it before, but the eyebrows missing is more apelike. of course SSJ4 has eyebrows again so that doesn't work, but...
You might even say the first showing of Goku's SSJ3 transformation has some foreshadowing to SSJ4 in retrospect because the scene shows his inner Oozaru and even some intermediate form that resembles SSJ4.
the ending in GT is perfect. Super has no ending because they dont know how to end it
It was kinda akward as more arcs are introduced
Because they wanted to keep pushing it and in the Mange it gets a lot worse.. The Moro arc destroyed Goku's character for not learning his mistakes and making it 100 times worse that it will make you actually hate Goku and the Gronolah arc destroyed Vegeta's character for being such power hungry and ultimately lose anyway and being so pathetic, I hope they will never put those arcs in the Anime and the Anime is already bad enough as it is
@@Omega-jg4oq I’ll be back whenever they animate those arcs to notify you so stay tuned!
@@Not_obligated2care After Akira Toriyama's death, that's like the end of Dragon Ball.. Even Toyotaro or someone takes his place, I highly doubt they would animate these arcs, keep waiting forever for that buddy lol..
I recently finished the entire dragon ball series and yet i still dont get the hate for gt
Easier to answer the reverse
- Nice ideas in general, but terrible execution
- Return to Dragon Ball' sense of adventure was good, but became formulaic real fast
- Idea of Pan and Trunks tagging along was good, terribly executed.
- Baby in general is a good concept
- SS4 looked kinda cool? Except it only serves as a plot device; ironically the critique people have of Blue in Super.
- Ending was good
Everything else was low tier-to-trash. Super 17 being possibly the worst arc ever to come out of the entire series. And that includes the Dragon Ball Heroes promotional episodes.
GT introduces 2 new transformations. Super Sayian 4 and Super Sayian Oozaru.
This was a great video analysis bro! I never got into super to begin with, however once I was seeing that it was just the goku/vegeta show, I knew the creativity was out the window 🤣. Plus GT has one of the best endings I’ve ever seen which still makes me cry to this day 😭
But thats the ony thing i can say for GT, it felt like an absolute ending what is great, but they way to reach it was just not good
You really hit the nail on the head for Super and GT in this video.
For me, I've always looked at Super as soulless and cash driven, with lazy writing, characters we've known for 30 years acting nothing like themselves, copy paste transformations.
GT isn't perfect, far from it, but at least it had soul and personality and also had good character writing.
I honestly don't know how people can defend Super, if you genuinely think it's great then you don't know Dragon Ball.
5:33 DBS manga did him way more justice than the anime he remembered it but grabbed the wrong thing, that makes sense
Just a note from a physicist. Hyperbolic time in reality would scale hyperbolically to our liner perceived time. Which means the first day from outside would be one year inside, but then the second day from outside could be something like 10 years inside. It would quickly run away like that so after a few days, you'd be in the chamber for millions of years. They could have made that the reason for the two day limit.
2:40 : That's wrong. Goku explicitly says he could smash Buu easily in SSJ3, but decides not to since he's dead and therefore shouldn't be the solution this time. He explicitly tells Goten and Trunks to train so _they_ can protect the Earth.
Toriyama has always been a terrible writer. GT is not worse than what came before in terms of plot.
BUT you're right on abslutely everything else.
I'll add the worst offender of all : the visuals.
Super sucks. It's poorly animated and literally hurts the eyes due to how flashy and plastic everything looks.
GT was the very last good thing TOEI ever made and it was terrific. It was the absolute peak of the Dragon Ball animation. Excellent shading all the time, the right amount of detail for an anime (not too much, not too little).
The only thing I give credit to Super is Gohan's fight scene in the Ressurection of F movie.
I would have loved if somehow skinny Buu looked just like his evil small version somehow, but not evil, still with Buu's funny personality.
People shit on GT way too much and are now realizing how good we had it back then. Sure it wasn't DBZ 2, but they followed the line of DBZ art, characters and even had the Baby Saga which was one of the best arks in the entire series.
At this point Super and Daima is just nonesense...
I think that people are really overestimating GT.
@simonhenriqueesilvalima90 nah bro people are realizing how dumb they were underestimating GT for decades. Its not perfect but maybe when Daima came out they went and gave GT an opportunity and watched it or realized how good it was compared to what we have nowadays
@@miguelribeiro1601 man I used HATE GT so much back then, but I won’t even lie in these past 6 months I probly rewatched it about 8 times. I love GT a lot these days.
@@Not_obligated2care Im so happy for you bro, most people just hated GT cause it was controversial specially the fact the it was Pan going with Goku as kid, it kinda is underwhelming at first but it gets really good!
This might be the best video I've ever seen on RUclips on this subject matter,its so well put together and it's something I wish the devs and toei could sit down in and office and watch together before they continue to mess up the series even more or even go back to fixing something's like trunks hair color even if it's a minor change .
1:12 SSJ 100 the 🐐
Trueee
I can still hear the amv's
I am glad that others in the community feel the same way for DBS. The art design is something that really annoys me too, DBS characters look very skinny, DBZ and GT characters looked buff and amazing even with the washed colors, I wanted that in Super and immediately got bored because there was no intensity in the design or combat.
Apart from the writing, pacing, character development, etc. Just looking at the style and animation, I'd take the hand/ cel animation and shading over Super. I tried watching the first episodes when Super aired but it put me off masively. GT on a technical level is way more similar to Z.
It's not about good or bad, it's just more my jame.
@@Kaizoku-o_PirateKing animation in GT is mind-bogglingly bad, you can't watch it and say it's good like cmon
@perreban Early Super animation made me quit. But the movies and later fights are chef kiss 🤌
@@perreban in terms of style GT is like foreshadowing Super
@@perreban
So was early Super until people shat on it.
And they needed to fix it.
Thank you so much! I've been saying damn near all of this for years now, finally some one gets it and can explain it all properly. (I may not agree with some of your GT criticism but...)
You seriously said it best.
4:00 well gt stands for goku time
Carthu lol
Yup lol
DragonBall has so many retcons, it’s hard to keep track
Soo this guy saying toi knows DBz better then the writer
It’s not even that bad in z and og I feel like
@@KumoBear12 its def not as bad in Z and og they just kind a retconed picollo to be an alien but they fixed that now in diama and some dragon ball wishes but some might be not considered a retcon just outplaying the rules
If you look closely to dragonball and read the manga toriyama retcon shit since DB. Remember when the dead body needs to be preserved so they can get resurrected by shenlog? Now in Z schautzu returned even though he blowed himself up@@KumoBear12
@@DrJ19999 I wouldn't say that's a retcon when you take in the context of the different situations. Chiaotzu blew himself up yes, but he was also granted a new body upon death to go train with King Kai. Thus already having a pre-existing body to be revived in.
People forget receiving bodies is a privilege and not the norm. It's likely the likes of those who died before the events of Z never received their bodies and were among the countless floating souls you see in the otherworld line, aside from the likes of Grandpa Gohan who became under the employ of Baba.
It's why Goku didn't need to be revived from being a corpse when he died in the Raditz encounter. If anything they took his pre-existing body and gave it to his spirit form due to Kami. Then when he was revived all that was needed was his Halo to fade any whatever other factors that decide life to kick in.
Sometimes not everything is a retcon, when the context of a situation opens up different paths, if it's not changing an established one.
"GT feels like it actaully could have been written by Toriyama... if Toriyama was a terrible writer."
*Toriyama WAS a terrible writer. The original DB was a collection of tropes and popular ideas thrown together during the time ideas were popular in the mainstream. The reason you think its more than mediocre writing is because DBGT and Super suffered from significantly more literary dysfunction. DBGT tried to emulate the flaws of the original DB without recognizing that there were going to be more issues that would hold it back because it's a sequel, and DBS was a result of taking the popularity of DBZ ideas and rehashing the same ideas over again in the most incohesive fashion imaginable.*
@@MaximumPayine Then why did you even click on this video?
@@KumoBear12 Because I wanted to hear what you had to say. Isn't it obvious? I'm not psychic. I hope you aren't taking things personally. I agree with you that GT is more cohesively written but it still is a mediocre literary piece. I recognize the flaws of DB and DBZ but I am still able to enjoy them for what they are. I hope you can do the same. I may not agree with you on everything but I acknowledge the effort and work you put into your video.
@@MaximumPayine Ok, I just thought it was weird of you to watch a you tube video about a franchise you think is terrible
i really miss the fun adventures of gt and original dragon ball :(
I don’t that crap was torture to sit through.
you hate fun
No, YOU hate fun. Bro saw Tournament of Power and went "nah I rather watch child Goku rn"
Bro what are these comments?
what fun adventure gts adventure was shit.
I disagree with the Trunks segment. The Trunks of the future from a different timeline had a colder demeanor bc he already experienced losing basically all of his loved ones.
The Trunks of the main timeline didnt go through all of that so i think his demeanor shows pretty good awareness and depth from the writers actually.
15:49 It's even crazier since in DBZ Daima, they reretconned the retconn with the original explaination!
Finally, someone who gets it. I don’t feel GT is that bad, maybe mid/almost good. But Super is worse than bad.
I feel like if they ever re-do Dragon Ball from de OG to GT, with a artsytle similar to the 90's but for newer generation to actually see DB OG and Z, and change a bit some things in GT we would get Dragon Ball definitive edition.
Yeah this is just nostalgia HT villains were worse by a lot.
They're both trash. GT just has much better concepts and ideas. GT just never executed their ideas well. Super has shitty ideas and shitty executions.
Transformations don't make any sense in Super.
Explain.
Because SS4 makes *a ton* of sense 🤣
@@nivyan EXACTLY
Diffusion dance is actually still just 30 minutes while the pitera is an hour
To be fair beerus sleeps like a corpse and when supreme kai died he became an actual corpse his alarm clock is load enough to kill dbz super saiyan 3 goku
Finally!!! A safe space where I can say that GT is better than Super.
gt is not and will never be better than super if retcon was an anime it would be gt and if u actually watched the series you'd know but no db fans are dyslexic tards
ass opinion plis grow up and start analyzing the writing and word development that super has unlike soulless GT
Listen I also like GT I didn't like the hate it was getting but super>GT.
Y'all start overrating GT now
@@NickZz_275 A bunch of people come out and say "We like GT better" and you lose your shit like this? Grow up, dude 😂
@darthsacul3940
Yeah how that bandwagon going stop acting like it’s perfect it okay or good both have faults but both sides are so blind to one another
Ngl ive always liked GT more than Super and think its better as a sequel
Would like Vegeta’s super design if he was wearing the Toji fit?
I can confirm i only watch dbs for fights whereas gt i actually enjoyed it
While Super is has its moments, GT just feels like a better written series and actually feels more real, where as Super feels more like someone took Dragon Ball elements and put them in a blender and the result was Super.
I find myself going back to rewatch GT more than Super.
u mean gt
They both disappointed me because neither had Giran and that's why nothing will ever beat the original
Giran wasn't even in Z.
Ok, that's a great reason.